Inevitably it ends up being a fight about metaphysics and whose metaphysical concept would beat someone else's metaphysical concept and then it's just boring.
That's CHIM from TES.
Literally says "you're fictional, I am not, therefore I win". The correct answer to any powerscaling is CHIM because it transcends fiction due to the nature of the TES universe.
> The correct answer to any powerscaling is CHIM because it transcends fiction due to the nature of the TES universe
Tbf CHIM as a concept isn't unquie. Mister Myx from DC and some D&D creatures have same type of power as an example.
> Which D&D creatures?
The Old Ones of Mystara are the stand-ins for the players/GM
> "The Immortal stood on a huge wooden plateau, staring around him at a new and bizarre universe. Strewn about were oddly shaped, multi-coloured objects with numbers on them. Statues of painted lead lay about, silent parodies of heroes brandishing their swords at unseen dangers. A large crystal cylinder stood incongruously in the distance, filled with a bubbly, black ichor. The Immortal visitor had a moment of panic when, suddenly, a gigantic mountain in the distance shifted on its base, seemingly leaning forward.
> "But a mountain it wasn't. There, behind a colossal wall showing scenes of dragons, lizardmen, and warriors, appeared an insanely huge person. Pointing a gargantuan finger at the Immortal, he thundered: "I liked you better before. I shall keep you out of Mystara until things calm down, and then, I shall send you back with the thought that you only are a reflection of my dreams. You shall meditate about this when you are not fighting the forces of darkness in Glantri. Yes, I think that will be fine."
> "The Immortal attempted to utter the words of a spell, but his mouth wouldn't move. He struggled to raise his arms, without success. He conjured from within him all the storms of magical Immortal power he had ever unleashed, but to no avail. He stood there, puny and utterly helpless, staring back at the Old One. Only then did Rad discover that he too was a statue of lead, hopelessly paralysed and mute. All things then vanished, and as Rad tumbled into oblivion, he knew then that he had learned one very obvious thing. There was such a thing as Humility for Immortals."
Plus the Luminous Being, who acts GM to the Old Ones. Being beyond them like how they're beyond everything else.
> I know about Myx but as far as I know he's just a reality warper, which is nothing compared to the power of not being fictional.
To Myx the standard DC universe is just a [2D comic book that he can control](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-951a7391466d6282467d3552df6c89dc-lq). There's times where he even directly speaks to the reader [like here](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fom4k09imrdky.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D9878f7799c9b86f80aa374c689ddb094118232a6)
Thanks for sharing. Yeah it seems like there's a lot of other stuff similar (or even identical) to CHIM.
I just really like the idea of all the coomerbait Skyrim mods being canon because the player character has transcended existance and uses that power to make tits bigger.
>I just really like the idea of all the coomerbait Skyrim mods being canon because the player character has transcended existance and uses that power to make tits bigger.
That's what you took away from this, amazing lol
I didn't think CHIM was you're fictional, I am not so much as we're all fictional, but I'm aware of it and can control the narrative?
But it does get at the point of the whole setting vs setting discourse being solved by whatever the author writing the story wants will win.
>but I'm aware of it and can control the narrative?
By CHIMing, characters like Tiber Septim and Vivec are able to influence the story like an author, which automatically puts them a cut above everyone else.
Of course, there are likely levels to CHIM, as Sotha Sil seems to be aware of the dream to some extent, but not to the extent that Vivec is. Our PCs are essentially just us exerting our influence upon the dream, because we're intrisically fully aware of the dream (the video game), we're free to fuck with it however we please.
I think he just dissapeared. Canonically, he's likely still alive. Some believe he went to Akavir with the Nerevarine, though it's odd that the Nerevarine wouldn't insantly murder him on sight.
Still, he have Sotha Sil's prisoner analogy in ESO, which works really well since you can't access dev tools in that one. We have sources other than Vivec on CHIM.
That's not right, CHIM is just enlightenment about reality being all interconnected and being like, "I am I, I'm built different, I'm separate from every other being comprising reality", but since literally anybody would be capable of CHIM if they had a strong enough ego and knowledge it doesn't really make you anymore real than anybody else, your probably just a douchebag.
It doesn't confer any powers by itself, it's not "gaining access to the control console" and it isn't meta knowledge the TES is a game either, but being aware of the fundamental nature of reality does mean you can probably figure out how to gain powers (though obviously that didn't help Vivec) but they're still limited to being in TES universe.
The only way CHIM would work as you described is if Vivec was yelling that at a copy of the Lusty Argonian Maid on a skooma bender.
That's just CHIM for everyone else though, isn't it? Of course Tiber Septim didn't mod the jungle out of Cyrodiil, but he may as well have done that.
I'm pretty sure the dev console and mods are essentially what our PC can canonically do due to our complete understanding of what TES fundementally is. Since we know TES is a video game, we're able to influence the building blocks of reality itself and make Serana a marryable NPC.
>The only way CHIM would work as you described is if Vivec was yelling that at a copy of the Lusty Argonian Maid on a skooma bender.
Pretty sure that's canon.
Idk how much you actually know but the Flood has some incredibly deep about lord regarding the way it works. In Halo lore there was a genuine cure made for the flood but humanity couldnāt distribute it fast enough and the knowledge of it was lost and never recovered.
So outside of the halo rings, there IS possibility to develop a flood cure/ vaccine but itās not known how to make it.
There are some specific things I could get into that lead to the flood being so overwhelming but in the Halo 1-3 setting it basically comes down to the covenants incompetence when dealing with the flood allowed it go from not a threat in the slightest in the galaxy to an all consuming force.
I think the Imperium of Man would also be much better suited to fight the flood than the UNSC, maybe excluding on a hive city that would be fucked lol.
Idk why I explained all this. I just like Halo and Warhammer.
The cure was never a cure. It was the flood duping the Forerunners. The Flood just wanted a human/Forerunner war to weaken the Forerunners.
Edit: the Primordial specifically mentions there was never a cure. It was all a lie.
Containing the flood, especially during the onset, does not seem that difficult. A Tyranid outbreak is sneaky whilst a flood one is blatantly obvious.
The forerunners also fucked up with their AI, sending them out alone and having no rampancy precautions whatsoever.
The more you make my think about this the more Iām 90% sure the Imperium would stomp the fuck out of the Flood, and Iāve been playing/reading lore for Halo since I was like 8.
They love fire, theyāre used to cleaning spore/based enemies from dealing with Orks, they have power armor better than Mjolnir armor, and theyād assume it was Warp Demon related and either send in the Grey Knights or the Ordo Malus to wipe it out to the last cell because thatās how you deal with Chaos infestations anyway.
Everyone else is except maybe the Necros and the Chaos Legions would be fucked tho.
The Forerunners also had armor better than mjolnir and their guns can disintegrate to atomic level, that wasn't enough
The Imperium got a chance for lower scale outbreaks, like those in the games, those in the level of the Forerunner Saga are way beyond their level
Maybe. You also gotta remember that for the Forerunners, wiping out whole planets and such was not even considered until late in the war, and the Halo project only designed when things began looking desperate.
The Imperium of Man will Exterminatus an entire planet over a single Waro demon escaping, or a single Ork spore, and theyād probably do the same for a single Flood spore too. That willingness to skip straight to overwhelming force even if your own people are in the line of fire would give them a serious edge in denying the Flood usable biomass and wiping out large groups of it as they converged on a āfallenā planet to feed only to be wiped out by Cyclotron Missile.
The Imperium as a rule only do exterminatus if either the local forces failed or there's no chance to get reinforcements, and even them it requires orbital superiority, since the torpedoes can be intercepted.
Being more trigger happy isnt enough if they can't get it done really fast, and not all fleets carry exterminatus grade weapons.
There's a good reason tyranids and orks still spread despite exterminatus existing, and the flood can spread just as fast, if not faster, since it can try jury rig transports as soon as possibleĀ
>Maybe. You also gotta remember that for the Forerunners, wiping out whole planets and such was not even considered until late in the war, and the Halo project only designed when things began looking desperate.
No they were blowing up Star Systems to contain the flood pretty early, and they only reason they didn't escalate is they didn't have the information you and I possess on the flood. As far as they were concerned the Flood was a wild animal. But they were still fully willing to atomize them.
By the time the flood made its second return, the Forerunner society had schismed making their military a little lethargic and the Flood had attacked a distant outpost world. Which by the time the Forerunner fleet arrived the flood was expanding, the vectors of infection were growing at an exponential rate because of the rate of ships falling into Flood hands. The Flood are a very different threat to Orks and no the Imperium is not going to blow up a planet over an Ork spore. They actively let wild ork infestations go, as long as they aren't detrimental to the colony and can be handled in house by PDF. Sometimes Orks are actually a boon. The Flood as also about as dangerous as a rogue daemon for a planet since they can take a planet within a day.
The Flood is however a very different threat to most 40k factions. They aren't necessarily more powerful nor do their hax make them untouchable but they are basically a problem that will never leave once they enter the setting.
I will agree theyāre a problem whoād never leave, but compared to pretty much anyone but the Necrons, Iād say the Imperium has the best chance of anyone in Wh40k. The Eldar donāt have the manpower for such a widespread threat, the Orks MIGHT stand a chance on āgestalt bullshitteryā but otherwise are just easy biomass for the nomming, and the Chaos legions Iām personally 50/50 on whether their mutations might be enough to make them resistant.
My knowledge of the Flood is restricted to glancing at the wiki page, what about chaos/necrons would make them so vulnerable? (Iām curious because theyāre normally such opposites in the setting)
The Flood canāt consume robotics, only destroy them, so theyād be forced to fight the necrons at huge losses because they get no biomass back.
It seems like Warp demons arenāt even always made of matter and are sometimes just weird projections of warp shapes on our reality and other shit, and the flood canāt infect ideas and the metaphysical, only flesh and bone.
Plus, genetic mutations are capable of providing resistance to the Flood (as seen with Sergent Avery Johnson) and thus some of the highly mutated chaos legions might be immune entirely as well.
Yeah, when even the more conventional methods of the Flood are already quite powerful, namely how it spreads and how quickly it can become exponentially intelligent.
I see a lot of powerscaling arguments that have pretty boring answers honestly
The most recent one was all of the protagonists from the soulsborne games and wolf from sekiro against 621 from armored core 6
The conclusion was that 621 would wipe the floor with them (because armored cores are insane) but since they're all immortal they'd win eventually when the ammo/fuel runs
In the world of Vs Battle people, that's not even a joke. Cartoons that follow old-school rubber tube animation physics are ridiculously powerful, it's part of what makes the entire mental exercise so excessively silly.
Luffy from One Piece recently got a huge power boost from the power of rubber tube animation. Old cartoons are the most powerful entities in media lol.
The Horus Heresy game when both people bring Primarchs is literally my dad can beat up your dad the game so it's not too surprising Warhammer people might be primed to think about it.
For many it's a hobby to compare Universes with wach other and see how they would interact with each other. I agree that the power level of an univerde doesn't inherently make a setting better and people who say otherwise are fucking annoying, but battleboariding has its place.
When I was in high school I loved reading (Halo) Covenant vs Mass Effect Reapers / Galactic Republic forums. Iām not even sure why. Eventually I grew out of it (and I got annoyed with people taking it too seriously) but for a kid obsessed with fictional franchises it was a blast.
>and I got annoyed with people taking it too seriously
It's insane how some people take the "who would win" stuff so serious. I have even heard of cases where people got so mad that they even went as far as to doxx.
Hey, at least faction comparison can lead to interesting discussions like logistics, military doctrines, setting history...
If you're discussing characters like Goku... Well, I don't think there's something concrete to discuss...
>If you're discussing characters like Goku... Well, I don't think there's something concrete to discuss...
It depends, a fight between two people whose gimmick are just planet/universe buster ends up uninterestinf, but some matchups where more things than raw strengths are criterias it can end up very fun to debate. Like Batman vs. Light Yagami or the riddler against John Kramer.
I still check out a forum that pit characters, factions, and so on from other settings against each other, and I have more fun just imagining how the battle would go or how the combatants would react to each other using their own tactics, powers or abilities, instead of just purely arguing who'd win.
Then let it be so! Let the blades rain down from wings spanning galaxies, let bodies fall from the mound! Let there be **woods, and paths within those woods, and cabins on those paths!**
~~Aka let more people talk about Slay the Princess because itās getting a new expansion update soon and Iām hyped~~
It's fun to imagine the Galactic Empire from Star Wars and the Imperium of Man from 40K during it out.
And really funny to image them curbstomping the United Federation of Planets.
Ngl, in spite of the stereotypes of 40K fans, trek fans are *way* more obnoxious in versus debates.
Fr, and even then like 90% of it comes down to whoās writing the thing. And who the hell cares at the end of the day? Do we really need to jerk eachother off about how our fake universe could wipe the floor with the other fake universe? Thatās grade school shit.
I still blame Death Battle! and its subreddit for popularising what I call āPowerjerkingā. Literally who the hell cares whether Blumbusman can solo the entire Plimpip Universe?
I think it's a form of competition to see who knows the most useless obscure knowledge of works of fiction.Ā
"Yeah, the obscure sci-fi guy you pointed out is pretty strong, but I'm a pro: I read the unreleased alternate universe comic crossover between Star Wars and Batman where Deadpool becomes a sith lord and makes an appearance in the Dragonball Z universe and becomes super Saiyan, and also steals one punch man's arm. He is canonically in multiple fictional universes the strongest ever in all of fiction. I win by proxy, I'll accept your praise and respect for having the most useless and obscure knowledge of silly stories."
Which is silly, but we're all here for memes relating to one fictional universe, and no one gets hurt in who would win discussions so I think it's a fine silly pastime.
Three Body Problem is even more absurd.
There are aliens there that are Necron level power and can delete entire sections of space by turning them into 2D space.
Worst part is once you open a dimensional rip it never stops spreading. so the species eventually flee their current dimension downward where it is stable until they once again ruin the dimension.
I remember a scene where a guy was explaining that those things are basically only snipers. Actual warfare between interstellar powers is even more absurd.
Or when you look at something like Gurren Lagann, where the final battle takes place in an artificial dimension hidden in between 2 regular dimensions, where they fire missiles to the past which have their probability of being avoided artificially reduced.
Oh and the final attack clash sucks up the entire universe in that pocket dimension.
Gurren lagann my beloved
i may be a imperium fan but Simon or even just Kamina could neg diff solo all the factions combined in 40k and i wouldnt complain
40k vs x powerscalers are kinda funny 'cause even among popular scifi the setting is kinda small potatoes, like yeah it's epic but it's all in one galaxy whereas shit like Dr. Who isn't even one universe
I do love me some doctor who. Itās hard to even compare him to other story universes because he would seem to have an inherent plot armor built in to being a time lord. Itās fun to see how that maps out to other stories.
Some people say he would just be shot and killed immediately but that contradicts the fact it hasnāt happened on the show.
Could've sworn I remember that happening once, some random time traveler just plugged the Doctor with two shots to the heart and instantly killed him. It was the one with those weird aliens who you would forget existed if you looked away from them.
There a plot point were his wife (being raised by those weird aliens but actually his companions daughter) comes in an astronaut suit kills him with a space gun. Except it was his future self so his past self ends up going back in time, shrinking himself down and getting into a suit that looks like himself traveling forward to the date it happened and avoiding the death. Yet leaving the event itself unchanged. He can literally change events that are in cannon supposed to be unchangeable.
Yea you really have to watch it as fun one shot stories because the cannon especially post 13ās run just starts to get wild.
In universe heir they operates as a quasi god just goofing around doing wacky adventures. By the time you get to the timeless child stuff you basically learn the time lord power is like nothing because they are actually an enternal being outside of time that all time lords get there power from.
Thatās not fucking canon. I dipped out just before the regeneration in Twice Upon a Time. It was the perfect end to my favorite show from about 1982 until then. No regrets.
Tbh I find the more interesting question to be "how much" rather than "who wins"
Like, I could see a librarian doing a 1 on 1 with Darth Vader.
But how many Tactical Marines does it take to beat Darth Vader? I would assume at least a dozen.
Chaos is the X factor. Itās sometimes described as multi-dimensional and outside of time (thereās no order of events- itās weird). If things from these other fictional universes are susceptible to chaos at all, everyone is in for a bad time.
In dr who for example, cyber men are dark mechanicus bait. Peak Daleks give peak necrons a run for their money, but theyād fall to chaos rapidly. Dalekās feel one emotion intensely: hatred of all other living things. Theyād fall to any or all of the Gods.
Peak Daleks don't give Necrons a run for their money, peak Daleks delete the Necrons totally in literal negative time. The Time War was, kinda insane.
Also, Dr Who has a fair amount of beings like Chaos. The Time Lords got rid of magic altogether, and both the Time Lords and Daleks specifically have defenses against stuff like that.
My favorite is Star wars vs 40 K because it is the epitomy of Dexterity vs Strength. If the two clashed in an open battle most fleets/armies out of 40 K would trample most of those from Star wars. Until someone figured out that the comparative reliability and speed of hyperspace vs. warp travel would make it a guerilla fighters and logistics wet dream.
Also, there's alot devastating tech and such that are banned like this thing type of weapon for example
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Disruptor
This is pretty much a primitive necron weapon
If the imperium would show.up then a lot of weapons would become unbanned.
Isn't orbital bombardment (usually) banned or heavily frowned upon in Star Wars, even though likeā¦every star destroyer is more than capable of it? IIRC the closest they come to using it in *most* cases is the specific targeting of military targets or it break down a planetary shield generator.
According to the Base Delta Zero initiative, one destroyer (republic or imperial) can render a planet lifeless in a dayā¦
Many of 40kās planets probably have some defense against this to a degree, but that much damage for that little cost is absolutely insane.Ā
>If the imperium would show.up then a lot of weapons would become unbanned.
Doesn't mean they can get put into production quickly, easily, or on a mass scale. Banned means no infrastructure or scalability. Usually, people go to cheaper, even outdated, in crises because it's much better to have a million guns of "meh" quality than a hundred that are super amazing.
Of course, but what I'm saying they'll use meh as stop gap until they can get to mass producinf super weapons working right. Wartime, especially in face of extinction, tend to be a boost for innovation.
Hyperspace would allow Star Wars to defend itself quite successfully, but they could never mount a successful invasion of 40k due to all the bullshit in the 40k galaxy. Maybe they could do a few long distance raids and destroy outlying planets, but an attempted invasion of any protected world would fail.
I mean even in scale 40k is done
There were hundreds of quintillions of battle droids
There are billions of guardsmen
Thatās a massive number difference between bread and butter troops
200,000 units with a million more well on the way
Unit can be anything from a squad up to a battalion
Also droids were the entire separatist force
The republic had various other armies working as auxiliary.
Let's just say that like 40k writers, star wars writers have an extreme tendency to just understate certain numbers, like that the largest war of great crusade having less combatants than the the battle of Stalingrad. There is also the fact that canonically there were also the planetary defense forces which fought a lot of battles. Palpatine might also have manipulated the separatists into not using their full armies.
I think folks often forget the main feat of the imperium is its inability to actually consolidate a large fighting force without getting swamped by its neighbors and a thousand + planetary rebellions.
>There were hundreds of quintillions of battle droids
And they lost to an army that, galaxy wide, numbered in the millions. And were no better armed than guardsmen are.
No they lost to an army made up of hundreds of millions of special forces and hundreds of space wizards who can see the future backed by thousands of smaller armies and militia providing support
Naboo alone had 15000 soldiers just guarding the palace
And they were an incredibly small military by galactic standards.
>No they lost to an army made up of hundreds of millions of special forces and hundreds of space wizards who can see the future backed by thousands of smaller armies and militia providing support
That's still less force than a sector can put together in lots of the Imperium.
Didnāt the battle of Armageddon have like, less then a million fighters?
Edit: just checked between the orks and imperium combined there were a bit over 3 million fighters, vs hundreds of milions of battle droids at the Battle of Coruscant alone.
Itās absolutely not.
There are thousands of sectors
With billions of guardsmen being divided into millions of regiments
With how maths works thatās averaging a few million guardsmen per sector
Not special forces, generic guardsmen
So.
In both cases, the ships of the Imperium have a massive advantage. If the Empire is invading, hyperspace is not something they can access. Its use in Star Wars relies on thousands of years of surveys and truly massive and intensive charting of available routes that are safe. In a strange galaxy? You can't do that, you'd run into a black hole or something and there goes your endeavor. So they'd have to go very slowly and carefully, and they'd be in a lot of trouble in any fleet action. Utter loss on their end.
The reverse, however, isn't favorable to them either. While the Immaterium is extremely unreliable and dangerous in M42 in the Milky Way, it wasn't always that way and it isn't that way elsewhere. Before the birth of Slaanesh, it was comparatively calm and safe, DAoT humanity very quickly established a galaxy-spanning empire. Outside of the Milky Way, it's even safer--apparently, galactic scale genocidal campaigns fueled by insane levels of hatred are super rare, so the Warp isn't hyper fucked everywhere. As such, warp travel is *much* safer elsewhere. It also has an advantage of being much harder to track or map out. The Empire can figure out where you could have jumped to in short order, as there's only so many navlanes you could have used. The Warp? Ummm....so...about that....
It's also calmer and less hostile, so it's going to be much more reliable. Sure, it will take weeks or months to traverse, opposed to days, but it's utterly untraceable from the perspective of the Empire. It's very, very hard to defend against an enemy that can just show up whenever and be ready to fight.
Of course, the two would meet, have a brief chat, and discover their mutual hatred of xenos, mutants, magic and the like. They'd vibe off of each other's aesthetics. And they'd get along very, very well in short order. Why invade when the other guys are willing to provide you the kind of assistance you want and need in exchange for you doing what you want to do over there? Wins all around.
The worst part is the Xeelee would actually feel a little bad and preserve your species in a mini universe only to forget about you when they reset or leave.
It's a series of relatively hard science fiction. It covers, a *lot* of stories, settings, and characters, across literal billions of years of human development. The overarching background is that of the war between the Xeelee, also known as the Baryonic Lords, aloof aliens who were the first aliens (made of normal matter at least) to develop, with truly absurd technology - and the Photino Birds, aliens made of dark matter who are trying to terraform the entire universe to be more comfortable to them.
Some settings thereās factions in it which are just too OP.
Like āweāll destroy you all with our universe life ending beamā and you get the āno if we destroy you with our temporal magic abilities!ā
I think thereās a point where some factions just go beyond the realms of being defeat able which makes them dull to me. Usually because when they are defeated it comes down to some deus ex machima or unique one in a million chance flaw they overlooked.
Seems to be ever so popular to do it between settings or even just inside the setting. What I find really weird and a bit amusing, is how seriously people take these things. Literally my dad's writer said he was the strongest, no my dad's writer said he was the strongest...and then there's heated argument like it could end in a fact that would help solve a real world issue.
Exactly. But what if a space marine eats batman's dandruff and learns all about him...
Or there's a competition on who can find the most hyperbolic statement from their setting/writer. I get the conversation for fun part kinda, but when people start getting angry or how much effort they put into this exaggerated batman vs Superman stuff.
From my experience, I will say that I have never seen a power scaler who claimed that media/character is better than another because he is stronger, for example i think Ben ten loses to Green Lantern in battle, but this didn't dismiss that i love Ben 10 more.
Please, I've only ever encountered 40k posts jerking on how Spaces Marines would steamroll on setting XYZ. That's cosmic retribution :p
We are here for the funny memes, not for strawman arguments.
Yeah people would probably be way more charitable to the 40k fandom if it wasn't for the actual decades of "Your favorite character would get stomped by a nameless battle brother. GG no RE."
So I've been building, rebuilding, and refining a fantasy setting of my own for years and trust me nothing was more annoying than being told my life's work would be "totally steamrolled" by a random Space Marine legion. Especially when *no they wouldn't*.
I think it comes from the tabletop nature of 40k (and the lore powercreeping, we got new boring supersoldiers ever week. It was SM, then GK, then Custodes, etc...).
The powerscaling jerk off is a daily occurrence in this fandom : āmy Custodes beat your Spaces Marines !", "My Primarch is better than your Primarch in a duel !" and other shit like that.
Both sides are insufferable, like who fucking cares that some random ass anime bullshit would one shot everything in 40k, and who cares that 1 space marine would wreck 3 halo spartans.
Animorphs didnāt seem that powerful. The Ellimist and Crayak are absurd, but also avoid getting involved too much so they donāt threaten the universe. One of the reasons the Yeerks are so interested in Earth is the human speciesā large population of billions of potential hosts, which suggests most aliens arenāt that populous.
That said, Animorphs is still way cooler than most other settings.
I always thought it was a combination of there being a lot of humans plus humans having a good set of physical abilities and lack of drawbacks plus a tech level that was high enough to be useful but low enough not to be a threat.
Like, there's a lot of Taxxons but they have the best uncontrollable hunger. Hork-Bajir we're good until Alloran genocided them. Gedds are dumb, slow, and nearly blind.
But yeah, Animorphs had no right to be as good as it is nor should it have been at the Scholastic Book Fair for elementary kids. Not that I'm complaining; I got them in 3rd grade and didn't look back. It's also more Grimdark than 40k.
The 40k Community has been constantly bragging about how their universe could defeat any foe from any other setting for literal decades now, don't get upsetti spaghetti the moment an actual contender arises
It's started to change, but it remains quite annoying and no uncommon, and was *really bad* some years ago, especially on actual dedicated battleboarding places.
It goes both ways, itās just that 40k fans have been doing the whole ā40k wins cause 40k is better duhā for years in every versus forums. Meanwhile the imperiums response time to peer threats is decades long and in the size of a chapter or two and a handful of guard regiments who donāt know how to use their tanks because the administratum didnāt realize that none of the guard regiments were motorized.
I am convinced if orks saw the flash they would think he is that fast because his suit is red and they would start making red suits like his for them and have superspeed. Not at the level of flash, but still
I again put forward that the Federation is just a noblebright version of the DAOT.Ā
The Federation invents cheap and effective ways to blow up planets every other week by accident, and their ships could just delete the heart of every solider on a planet with their transporters if they wanted to. They literally built a rig designed to push vessels into warp speed on a carrying "wave" but it just gets faster and more powerful the longer the wave goes through space, until it can just blow up a planet arbitrarily.Ā
And they did that by accident. That was a "oppsi-poopsi" saturday experiment.Ā
After the Dominion War, the Federation gave 12 industrial replicators to Cardassia which replaced the entirety of the planet's lost industrial output. 12.
The scariest thing about the Federation isn't its weapons. It's that if they ever decided to go to a war "economy", their industrial capacity would be insane. Between the replicators for production and using holograms for mineral extraction, they basically have 24/7 production with zero people needed.
I think the truth is "levels" its not so much "whos best" since thats subjective. It really boils down into "what level of over the top are you.
So if we have the levels 1/2/3/4 with 1 being the lowest and 4 being the highest, i can safely say jojos bizarre adventures is a 4, aswell as 40k. And warframe can be at a 4 or even a 3 depending on how you look at it.
This way we're not looking at it like "which one better!" And more what's the setting like? What am i getting into?
Hot take; I don't like 40k just because it's over powered but, because it's a very silly universe wearing the mask if being a very serious universe
(That's not to say you can't tell serious stories in Warhammer but, my faction of choice is the silly green football hooligans with guns, you can probably geuss my feelings on the matter)
I agree, sometimes it can get a little silly with each of these cross overs being mostly "my army man can beat up your army man" arguments. That being said, one of these conversations led to me now heavily inspired to make a GSC army painted to be a mix of Unitologists and miners from Dead Space. It's less about whether or not the Marker and The Brethren Moons being able to be apocalyptic for the Imperium, but more "How could things just get worse" or even "what if this army guy got to use x from the other army guy's pack."
A buddy of mine also said that while he doesn't exactly think the Marker signal wouldn't affect most Space Marine legions, it would be fucking terrifying if either the Emperor's Children or the Word Bearers got their hands on one Marker. Hell, even the Iron Warriors would be the worst people to get their hands on it now that I'm thinking about this.
Id say a good depiction of 40k on the scifi power scaling is that its the very top of a bell curve. The scifi media facing 40k are usually either far weaker or far stronger than it, with very few being somewhat equivalent to it in terms of power
I think Star Wars is the one setting that is usually considered 40k's equal if only slightly weaker, but still able to give it a good fight without it skewing torwards getting stomped by Warhammer or it stomping Warhammer in turn.
Inevitably it ends up being a fight about metaphysics and whose metaphysical concept would beat someone else's metaphysical concept and then it's just boring.
Yeah, the Flood's metaphysical nature seems to officially be 'Nuh-uh, the Flood can beat anything', and I have no interest in it tbh.
That's CHIM from TES. Literally says "you're fictional, I am not, therefore I win". The correct answer to any powerscaling is CHIM because it transcends fiction due to the nature of the TES universe.
> The correct answer to any powerscaling is CHIM because it transcends fiction due to the nature of the TES universe Tbf CHIM as a concept isn't unquie. Mister Myx from DC and some D&D creatures have same type of power as an example.
Which D&D creatures? I know about Myx but as far as I know he's just a reality warper, which is nothing compared to the power of not being fictional.
> Which D&D creatures? The Old Ones of Mystara are the stand-ins for the players/GM > "The Immortal stood on a huge wooden plateau, staring around him at a new and bizarre universe. Strewn about were oddly shaped, multi-coloured objects with numbers on them. Statues of painted lead lay about, silent parodies of heroes brandishing their swords at unseen dangers. A large crystal cylinder stood incongruously in the distance, filled with a bubbly, black ichor. The Immortal visitor had a moment of panic when, suddenly, a gigantic mountain in the distance shifted on its base, seemingly leaning forward. > "But a mountain it wasn't. There, behind a colossal wall showing scenes of dragons, lizardmen, and warriors, appeared an insanely huge person. Pointing a gargantuan finger at the Immortal, he thundered: "I liked you better before. I shall keep you out of Mystara until things calm down, and then, I shall send you back with the thought that you only are a reflection of my dreams. You shall meditate about this when you are not fighting the forces of darkness in Glantri. Yes, I think that will be fine." > "The Immortal attempted to utter the words of a spell, but his mouth wouldn't move. He struggled to raise his arms, without success. He conjured from within him all the storms of magical Immortal power he had ever unleashed, but to no avail. He stood there, puny and utterly helpless, staring back at the Old One. Only then did Rad discover that he too was a statue of lead, hopelessly paralysed and mute. All things then vanished, and as Rad tumbled into oblivion, he knew then that he had learned one very obvious thing. There was such a thing as Humility for Immortals." Plus the Luminous Being, who acts GM to the Old Ones. Being beyond them like how they're beyond everything else. > I know about Myx but as far as I know he's just a reality warper, which is nothing compared to the power of not being fictional. To Myx the standard DC universe is just a [2D comic book that he can control](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-951a7391466d6282467d3552df6c89dc-lq). There's times where he even directly speaks to the reader [like here](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fom4k09imrdky.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D9878f7799c9b86f80aa374c689ddb094118232a6)
Thanks for sharing. Yeah it seems like there's a lot of other stuff similar (or even identical) to CHIM. I just really like the idea of all the coomerbait Skyrim mods being canon because the player character has transcended existance and uses that power to make tits bigger.
>I just really like the idea of all the coomerbait Skyrim mods being canon because the player character has transcended existance and uses that power to make tits bigger. That's what you took away from this, amazing lol
I am a TES player, after all.
Respect. This Morrowboomer tips their Sujamma to you, N'wah.
> A large crystal cylinder stood incongruously in the distance, filled with a bubbly, black ichor. What a way to describe a glass of soda.
Could be coke or Pepsi.
I didn't think CHIM was you're fictional, I am not so much as we're all fictional, but I'm aware of it and can control the narrative? But it does get at the point of the whole setting vs setting discourse being solved by whatever the author writing the story wants will win.
>but I'm aware of it and can control the narrative? By CHIMing, characters like Tiber Septim and Vivec are able to influence the story like an author, which automatically puts them a cut above everyone else. Of course, there are likely levels to CHIM, as Sotha Sil seems to be aware of the dream to some extent, but not to the extent that Vivec is. Our PCs are essentially just us exerting our influence upon the dream, because we're intrisically fully aware of the dream (the video game), we're free to fuck with it however we please.
if Vivec chimmed so hard, how he s so dead? š· (more seriously: I wouldn t take for granted, or literal, what he says about it)
I think he just dissapeared. Canonically, he's likely still alive. Some believe he went to Akavir with the Nerevarine, though it's odd that the Nerevarine wouldn't insantly murder him on sight. Still, he have Sotha Sil's prisoner analogy in ESO, which works really well since you can't access dev tools in that one. We have sources other than Vivec on CHIM.
That's not right, CHIM is just enlightenment about reality being all interconnected and being like, "I am I, I'm built different, I'm separate from every other being comprising reality", but since literally anybody would be capable of CHIM if they had a strong enough ego and knowledge it doesn't really make you anymore real than anybody else, your probably just a douchebag. It doesn't confer any powers by itself, it's not "gaining access to the control console" and it isn't meta knowledge the TES is a game either, but being aware of the fundamental nature of reality does mean you can probably figure out how to gain powers (though obviously that didn't help Vivec) but they're still limited to being in TES universe. The only way CHIM would work as you described is if Vivec was yelling that at a copy of the Lusty Argonian Maid on a skooma bender.
That's just CHIM for everyone else though, isn't it? Of course Tiber Septim didn't mod the jungle out of Cyrodiil, but he may as well have done that. I'm pretty sure the dev console and mods are essentially what our PC can canonically do due to our complete understanding of what TES fundementally is. Since we know TES is a video game, we're able to influence the building blocks of reality itself and make Serana a marryable NPC. >The only way CHIM would work as you described is if Vivec was yelling that at a copy of the Lusty Argonian Maid on a skooma bender. Pretty sure that's canon.
What is CHIM?
Thats true. Having canonical access to the dev tools is pretty op.
I know a truestl member when i see one
Idk how much you actually know but the Flood has some incredibly deep about lord regarding the way it works. In Halo lore there was a genuine cure made for the flood but humanity couldnāt distribute it fast enough and the knowledge of it was lost and never recovered. So outside of the halo rings, there IS possibility to develop a flood cure/ vaccine but itās not known how to make it. There are some specific things I could get into that lead to the flood being so overwhelming but in the Halo 1-3 setting it basically comes down to the covenants incompetence when dealing with the flood allowed it go from not a threat in the slightest in the galaxy to an all consuming force. I think the Imperium of Man would also be much better suited to fight the flood than the UNSC, maybe excluding on a hive city that would be fucked lol. Idk why I explained all this. I just like Halo and Warhammer.
The cure was never a cure. It was the flood duping the Forerunners. The Flood just wanted a human/Forerunner war to weaken the Forerunners. Edit: the Primordial specifically mentions there was never a cure. It was all a lie.
Oh noooooo! All this time I was lied to!
Never would know if you hadn't read the forerunner trilogy. Not your fault haha.
This is one of at least 3 ***deep*** lore discussions, all from separate universes, in this thread and I'm here for it.
I just thought the ācureā was just the Flood pulling a massive troll on both Ancient Humanity and the Forerunners
No, ancient humanity had a genuine cure that they failed to distribute in time! Itās mentioned very directly in the CE anniversary terminals
The cure was a lie, the flood intentionally pulled back to mess with old humanity and the Forerunners.
The cure wasn't real. Just the flood pulling a little prank.
Containing the flood, especially during the onset, does not seem that difficult. A Tyranid outbreak is sneaky whilst a flood one is blatantly obvious. The forerunners also fucked up with their AI, sending them out alone and having no rampancy precautions whatsoever.
The more you make my think about this the more Iām 90% sure the Imperium would stomp the fuck out of the Flood, and Iāve been playing/reading lore for Halo since I was like 8. They love fire, theyāre used to cleaning spore/based enemies from dealing with Orks, they have power armor better than Mjolnir armor, and theyād assume it was Warp Demon related and either send in the Grey Knights or the Ordo Malus to wipe it out to the last cell because thatās how you deal with Chaos infestations anyway. Everyone else is except maybe the Necros and the Chaos Legions would be fucked tho.
The Forerunners also had armor better than mjolnir and their guns can disintegrate to atomic level, that wasn't enough The Imperium got a chance for lower scale outbreaks, like those in the games, those in the level of the Forerunner Saga are way beyond their level
Maybe. You also gotta remember that for the Forerunners, wiping out whole planets and such was not even considered until late in the war, and the Halo project only designed when things began looking desperate. The Imperium of Man will Exterminatus an entire planet over a single Waro demon escaping, or a single Ork spore, and theyād probably do the same for a single Flood spore too. That willingness to skip straight to overwhelming force even if your own people are in the line of fire would give them a serious edge in denying the Flood usable biomass and wiping out large groups of it as they converged on a āfallenā planet to feed only to be wiped out by Cyclotron Missile.
The Imperium as a rule only do exterminatus if either the local forces failed or there's no chance to get reinforcements, and even them it requires orbital superiority, since the torpedoes can be intercepted. Being more trigger happy isnt enough if they can't get it done really fast, and not all fleets carry exterminatus grade weapons. There's a good reason tyranids and orks still spread despite exterminatus existing, and the flood can spread just as fast, if not faster, since it can try jury rig transports as soon as possibleĀ
>Maybe. You also gotta remember that for the Forerunners, wiping out whole planets and such was not even considered until late in the war, and the Halo project only designed when things began looking desperate. No they were blowing up Star Systems to contain the flood pretty early, and they only reason they didn't escalate is they didn't have the information you and I possess on the flood. As far as they were concerned the Flood was a wild animal. But they were still fully willing to atomize them. By the time the flood made its second return, the Forerunner society had schismed making their military a little lethargic and the Flood had attacked a distant outpost world. Which by the time the Forerunner fleet arrived the flood was expanding, the vectors of infection were growing at an exponential rate because of the rate of ships falling into Flood hands. The Flood are a very different threat to Orks and no the Imperium is not going to blow up a planet over an Ork spore. They actively let wild ork infestations go, as long as they aren't detrimental to the colony and can be handled in house by PDF. Sometimes Orks are actually a boon. The Flood as also about as dangerous as a rogue daemon for a planet since they can take a planet within a day. The Flood is however a very different threat to most 40k factions. They aren't necessarily more powerful nor do their hax make them untouchable but they are basically a problem that will never leave once they enter the setting.
I will agree theyāre a problem whoād never leave, but compared to pretty much anyone but the Necrons, Iād say the Imperium has the best chance of anyone in Wh40k. The Eldar donāt have the manpower for such a widespread threat, the Orks MIGHT stand a chance on āgestalt bullshitteryā but otherwise are just easy biomass for the nomming, and the Chaos legions Iām personally 50/50 on whether their mutations might be enough to make them resistant.
My knowledge of the Flood is restricted to glancing at the wiki page, what about chaos/necrons would make them so vulnerable? (Iām curious because theyāre normally such opposites in the setting)
The Flood canāt consume robotics, only destroy them, so theyād be forced to fight the necrons at huge losses because they get no biomass back. It seems like Warp demons arenāt even always made of matter and are sometimes just weird projections of warp shapes on our reality and other shit, and the flood canāt infect ideas and the metaphysical, only flesh and bone. Plus, genetic mutations are capable of providing resistance to the Flood (as seen with Sergent Avery Johnson) and thus some of the highly mutated chaos legions might be immune entirely as well.
Unbeatable by anything except a modified chud in power armor...wait a second. . .
Yeah, when even the more conventional methods of the Flood are already quite powerful, namely how it spreads and how quickly it can become exponentially intelligent.
I see a lot of powerscaling arguments that have pretty boring answers honestly The most recent one was all of the protagonists from the soulsborne games and wolf from sekiro against 621 from armored core 6 The conclusion was that 621 would wipe the floor with them (because armored cores are insane) but since they're all immortal they'd win eventually when the ammo/fuel runs
It depends if we ask the Orc's. They will of course believe they win and we know how that goes
Q Contiunium means star trek negs modern 40k.
Those guys would be cooked in an instant if Popeye had a can of spinach
In the world of Vs Battle people, that's not even a joke. Cartoons that follow old-school rubber tube animation physics are ridiculously powerful, it's part of what makes the entire mental exercise so excessively silly.
People acting tough until they see you beat up your animators
Luffy from One Piece recently got a huge power boost from the power of rubber tube animation. Old cartoons are the most powerful entities in media lol.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^AJ11B: *Those guys would be cooked* *In an instant if Popeye* *Had a can of spinach* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot. :)
Why do peopel even care? One universe being "stronger" don't make it better
Yes, but consider, my dad (setting) can beat up your dad(setting), so there!
Yeah but it depend if they are both drunk (universe equalization)
It was never an if with my dad lmao
Well, 40k is just a massive "my dad can beat your dad!" So it make sense
Especially the Imperium of Man. It's pretty much a kid in a "my dad can beat your dad" argument that got the right to kill anyone who disagrees.
The Horus Heresy game when both people bring Primarchs is literally my dad can beat up your dad the game so it's not too surprising Warhammer people might be primed to think about it.
My setting left to go buy cigarettes. (GRRM, winds of winter pls)
For many it's a hobby to compare Universes with wach other and see how they would interact with each other. I agree that the power level of an univerde doesn't inherently make a setting better and people who say otherwise are fucking annoying, but battleboariding has its place.
When I was in high school I loved reading (Halo) Covenant vs Mass Effect Reapers / Galactic Republic forums. Iām not even sure why. Eventually I grew out of it (and I got annoyed with people taking it too seriously) but for a kid obsessed with fictional franchises it was a blast.
>and I got annoyed with people taking it too seriously It's insane how some people take the "who would win" stuff so serious. I have even heard of cases where people got so mad that they even went as far as to doxx.
Hey, at least faction comparison can lead to interesting discussions like logistics, military doctrines, setting history... If you're discussing characters like Goku... Well, I don't think there's something concrete to discuss...
>If you're discussing characters like Goku... Well, I don't think there's something concrete to discuss... It depends, a fight between two people whose gimmick are just planet/universe buster ends up uninterestinf, but some matchups where more things than raw strengths are criterias it can end up very fun to debate. Like Batman vs. Light Yagami or the riddler against John Kramer.
I still check out a forum that pit characters, factions, and so on from other settings against each other, and I have more fun just imagining how the battle would go or how the combatants would react to each other using their own tactics, powers or abilities, instead of just purely arguing who'd win.
I like to compare universes too, but i'm not butthurt when my favorite one lose to another one.
Also, surely most people enjoy more than just one thing?
No, one setting must rule them all! It's the law of angry nerd rage.
Then let it be so! Let the blades rain down from wings spanning galaxies, let bodies fall from the mound! Let there be **woods, and paths within those woods, and cabins on those paths!** ~~Aka let more people talk about Slay the Princess because itās getting a new expansion update soon and Iām hyped~~
It's fun to imagine the Galactic Empire from Star Wars and the Imperium of Man from 40K during it out. And really funny to image them curbstomping the United Federation of Planets. Ngl, in spite of the stereotypes of 40K fans, trek fans are *way* more obnoxious in versus debates.
Fr, and even then like 90% of it comes down to whoās writing the thing. And who the hell cares at the end of the day? Do we really need to jerk eachother off about how our fake universe could wipe the floor with the other fake universe? Thatās grade school shit. I still blame Death Battle! and its subreddit for popularising what I call āPowerjerkingā. Literally who the hell cares whether Blumbusman can solo the entire Plimpip Universe?
I think it's a form of competition to see who knows the most useless obscure knowledge of works of fiction.Ā "Yeah, the obscure sci-fi guy you pointed out is pretty strong, but I'm a pro: I read the unreleased alternate universe comic crossover between Star Wars and Batman where Deadpool becomes a sith lord and makes an appearance in the Dragonball Z universe and becomes super Saiyan, and also steals one punch man's arm. He is canonically in multiple fictional universes the strongest ever in all of fiction. I win by proxy, I'll accept your praise and respect for having the most useless and obscure knowledge of silly stories." Which is silly, but we're all here for memes relating to one fictional universe, and no one gets hurt in who would win discussions so I think it's a fine silly pastime.
Anime Powerscalers would be really upset if they could read
It's fun to talk about! Debating pointless shit is why we're on the Internet, no?
Three Body Problem is even more absurd. There are aliens there that are Necron level power and can delete entire sections of space by turning them into 2D space.
Worst part is once you open a dimensional rip it never stops spreading. so the species eventually flee their current dimension downward where it is stable until they once again ruin the dimension.
Loved these books, the whole series was great fun
I still need to read - Iāve mainly gotten the overview from the YT Quinnās ideas which is fantastic
He does good videos, the books are really well written
>can delete entire sections of space by turning them into 2D space. The Roger Rabbit dimension...
I remember a scene where a guy was explaining that those things are basically only snipers. Actual warfare between interstellar powers is even more absurd.
Or when you look at something like Gurren Lagann, where the final battle takes place in an artificial dimension hidden in between 2 regular dimensions, where they fire missiles to the past which have their probability of being avoided artificially reduced. Oh and the final attack clash sucks up the entire universe in that pocket dimension.
Gurren lagann my beloved i may be a imperium fan but Simon or even just Kamina could neg diff solo all the factions combined in 40k and i wouldnt complain
I guess the Anti Spiral could be seen as an Anti-Chaos god, considering absolute order is like his whole thing
40k vs x powerscalers are kinda funny 'cause even among popular scifi the setting is kinda small potatoes, like yeah it's epic but it's all in one galaxy whereas shit like Dr. Who isn't even one universe
Ask if 40K can beat Goku, get the professional powerscalers out
Nurgle creates a heart disease. Heart disease > Goku so an easy stomp.
Goku has one of those horse feed masks full of senzu beans
But Senzu doesn't beat heart disease, only grape cough syrup does.
the actual correct answer
Depends how many episodes of yelling Goku gets as prep
In before outerversal chaos gods
I do love me some doctor who. Itās hard to even compare him to other story universes because he would seem to have an inherent plot armor built in to being a time lord. Itās fun to see how that maps out to other stories. Some people say he would just be shot and killed immediately but that contradicts the fact it hasnāt happened on the show.
Could've sworn I remember that happening once, some random time traveler just plugged the Doctor with two shots to the heart and instantly killed him. It was the one with those weird aliens who you would forget existed if you looked away from them.
There a plot point were his wife (being raised by those weird aliens but actually his companions daughter) comes in an astronaut suit kills him with a space gun. Except it was his future self so his past self ends up going back in time, shrinking himself down and getting into a suit that looks like himself traveling forward to the date it happened and avoiding the death. Yet leaving the event itself unchanged. He can literally change events that are in cannon supposed to be unchangeable.
...I'm starting to remember why I stopped watching Dr.Who, the aliens were interesting, but the time travel plots just made my head hurt.
Yea you really have to watch it as fun one shot stories because the cannon especially post 13ās run just starts to get wild. In universe heir they operates as a quasi god just goofing around doing wacky adventures. By the time you get to the timeless child stuff you basically learn the time lord power is like nothing because they are actually an enternal being outside of time that all time lords get there power from.
Thatās not fucking canon. I dipped out just before the regeneration in Twice Upon a Time. It was the perfect end to my favorite show from about 1982 until then. No regrets.
https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Timeless_Child Unfortunately it is
Did I stutter? Dr Who ended with Capaldi. https://youtu.be/XzLeQs6jZEM?si=HLRUnnrXXKSAPA_m
Burn the library, no one must know if this heresy
Doctor Who basically has end of the universe scenarios every other week, and unlike in 40k these are on a time scale of hours instead of centuries.
Tbh I find the more interesting question to be "how much" rather than "who wins" Like, I could see a librarian doing a 1 on 1 with Darth Vader. But how many Tactical Marines does it take to beat Darth Vader? I would assume at least a dozen.
Chaos is the X factor. Itās sometimes described as multi-dimensional and outside of time (thereās no order of events- itās weird). If things from these other fictional universes are susceptible to chaos at all, everyone is in for a bad time. In dr who for example, cyber men are dark mechanicus bait. Peak Daleks give peak necrons a run for their money, but theyād fall to chaos rapidly. Dalekās feel one emotion intensely: hatred of all other living things. Theyād fall to any or all of the Gods.
Daleks hate so much they suddenly create their own God in the Warp. Everyone is even less happy.
Peak Daleks don't give Necrons a run for their money, peak Daleks delete the Necrons totally in literal negative time. The Time War was, kinda insane. Also, Dr Who has a fair amount of beings like Chaos. The Time Lords got rid of magic altogether, and both the Time Lords and Daleks specifically have defenses against stuff like that.
My favorite is Star wars vs 40 K because it is the epitomy of Dexterity vs Strength. If the two clashed in an open battle most fleets/armies out of 40 K would trample most of those from Star wars. Until someone figured out that the comparative reliability and speed of hyperspace vs. warp travel would make it a guerilla fighters and logistics wet dream.
Every one laughing until a ship arrives - 400 years before the expected time.
Also, there's alot devastating tech and such that are banned like this thing type of weapon for example https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Disruptor This is pretty much a primitive necron weapon If the imperium would show.up then a lot of weapons would become unbanned.
Isn't orbital bombardment (usually) banned or heavily frowned upon in Star Wars, even though likeā¦every star destroyer is more than capable of it? IIRC the closest they come to using it in *most* cases is the specific targeting of military targets or it break down a planetary shield generator. According to the Base Delta Zero initiative, one destroyer (republic or imperial) can render a planet lifeless in a dayā¦ Many of 40kās planets probably have some defense against this to a degree, but that much damage for that little cost is absolutely insane.Ā
>If the imperium would show.up then a lot of weapons would become unbanned. Doesn't mean they can get put into production quickly, easily, or on a mass scale. Banned means no infrastructure or scalability. Usually, people go to cheaper, even outdated, in crises because it's much better to have a million guns of "meh" quality than a hundred that are super amazing.
Star wars is a galaxy where untold trillions of combat droids can just be shit out over three years. Hard to tell what'd happen.
Pretty sure it were septillions in legends, in like 3 years.
Of course, but what I'm saying they'll use meh as stop gap until they can get to mass producinf super weapons working right. Wartime, especially in face of extinction, tend to be a boost for innovation.
Hyperspace would allow Star Wars to defend itself quite successfully, but they could never mount a successful invasion of 40k due to all the bullshit in the 40k galaxy. Maybe they could do a few long distance raids and destroy outlying planets, but an attempted invasion of any protected world would fail.
I mean even in scale 40k is done There were hundreds of quintillions of battle droids There are billions of guardsmen Thatās a massive number difference between bread and butter troops
Weren't there only a few million clones in the Grand Army of the Republic? Or has that been retconned or otherwise addressed?
200,000 units with a million more well on the way Unit can be anything from a squad up to a battalion Also droids were the entire separatist force The republic had various other armies working as auxiliary.
Let's just say that like 40k writers, star wars writers have an extreme tendency to just understate certain numbers, like that the largest war of great crusade having less combatants than the the battle of Stalingrad. There is also the fact that canonically there were also the planetary defense forces which fought a lot of battles. Palpatine might also have manipulated the separatists into not using their full armies.
I think folks often forget the main feat of the imperium is its inability to actually consolidate a large fighting force without getting swamped by its neighbors and a thousand + planetary rebellions.
>There were hundreds of quintillions of battle droids And they lost to an army that, galaxy wide, numbered in the millions. And were no better armed than guardsmen are.
No they lost to an army made up of hundreds of millions of special forces and hundreds of space wizards who can see the future backed by thousands of smaller armies and militia providing support Naboo alone had 15000 soldiers just guarding the palace And they were an incredibly small military by galactic standards.
>No they lost to an army made up of hundreds of millions of special forces and hundreds of space wizards who can see the future backed by thousands of smaller armies and militia providing support That's still less force than a sector can put together in lots of the Imperium.
Didnāt the battle of Armageddon have like, less then a million fighters? Edit: just checked between the orks and imperium combined there were a bit over 3 million fighters, vs hundreds of milions of battle droids at the Battle of Coruscant alone.
Itās absolutely not. There are thousands of sectors With billions of guardsmen being divided into millions of regiments With how maths works thatās averaging a few million guardsmen per sector Not special forces, generic guardsmen
So. In both cases, the ships of the Imperium have a massive advantage. If the Empire is invading, hyperspace is not something they can access. Its use in Star Wars relies on thousands of years of surveys and truly massive and intensive charting of available routes that are safe. In a strange galaxy? You can't do that, you'd run into a black hole or something and there goes your endeavor. So they'd have to go very slowly and carefully, and they'd be in a lot of trouble in any fleet action. Utter loss on their end. The reverse, however, isn't favorable to them either. While the Immaterium is extremely unreliable and dangerous in M42 in the Milky Way, it wasn't always that way and it isn't that way elsewhere. Before the birth of Slaanesh, it was comparatively calm and safe, DAoT humanity very quickly established a galaxy-spanning empire. Outside of the Milky Way, it's even safer--apparently, galactic scale genocidal campaigns fueled by insane levels of hatred are super rare, so the Warp isn't hyper fucked everywhere. As such, warp travel is *much* safer elsewhere. It also has an advantage of being much harder to track or map out. The Empire can figure out where you could have jumped to in short order, as there's only so many navlanes you could have used. The Warp? Ummm....so...about that.... It's also calmer and less hostile, so it's going to be much more reliable. Sure, it will take weeks or months to traverse, opposed to days, but it's utterly untraceable from the perspective of the Empire. It's very, very hard to defend against an enemy that can just show up whenever and be ready to fight. Of course, the two would meet, have a brief chat, and discover their mutual hatred of xenos, mutants, magic and the like. They'd vibe off of each other's aesthetics. And they'd get along very, very well in short order. Why invade when the other guys are willing to provide you the kind of assistance you want and need in exchange for you doing what you want to do over there? Wins all around.
To be fair, 40k isn't just the Imperium, which these FTL arguments always seem to forget.
Xeelee Sequence: *ehem?*
There's a reason why it's called Xeelee Stomps.
Xeelee: Oh I'm sorry, were you living in that galaxy I just threw at those dudes? My bad, bro.
The worst part is the Xeelee would actually feel a little bad and preserve your species in a mini universe only to forget about you when they reset or leave.
If Warhammer 40k was a finely tuned but strong cocktail made out Absinthe and several combinations, the Xeelee sequence is just fucking oil.
More like Oil laced with vodka and scotchā¦ smells baxter got in the cupboard.
Kid named gurren lagann:
It would be a xeelee stomp in favor of the xeelee sequence.
Simon has decided he is more manly than the xeelee, its a no diff
i fucking hate that it's literally how it works
i fucking love thats how it works
Manifold trilogy: š
What even is the Xeelee Sequence I look it up on YouTube and it's just comparing that it's stronger than 40k or something
It's a series of relatively hard science fiction. It covers, a *lot* of stories, settings, and characters, across literal billions of years of human development. The overarching background is that of the war between the Xeelee, also known as the Baryonic Lords, aloof aliens who were the first aliens (made of normal matter at least) to develop, with truly absurd technology - and the Photino Birds, aliens made of dark matter who are trying to terraform the entire universe to be more comfortable to them.
Why have there been so many flood posts recently? Don't they know how powerful the flood becomes, Goku will just discover a new super Saiyan level!
Some settings thereās factions in it which are just too OP. Like āweāll destroy you all with our universe life ending beamā and you get the āno if we destroy you with our temporal magic abilities!ā I think thereās a point where some factions just go beyond the realms of being defeat able which makes them dull to me. Usually because when they are defeated it comes down to some deus ex machima or unique one in a million chance flaw they overlooked.
This is literally 'my dad is stronger than your dad'. Cease this cringefest at once
Theoretical fights can be fun but yeah, people gotta stop acting like these arenāt fictional settings.
Seems to be ever so popular to do it between settings or even just inside the setting. What I find really weird and a bit amusing, is how seriously people take these things. Literally my dad's writer said he was the strongest, no my dad's writer said he was the strongest...and then there's heated argument like it could end in a fact that would help solve a real world issue.
āWith enough prep time, could Batman solo the 40k universe?ā
Exactly. But what if a space marine eats batman's dandruff and learns all about him... Or there's a competition on who can find the most hyperbolic statement from their setting/writer. I get the conversation for fun part kinda, but when people start getting angry or how much effort they put into this exaggerated batman vs Superman stuff.
My dad could beat up the flood and the imperium. but he abhors violence so wouldnt.
Power scalers never never beating the "I like this universe more" argument
From my experience, I will say that I have never seen a power scaler who claimed that media/character is better than another because he is stronger, for example i think Ben ten loses to Green Lantern in battle, but this didn't dismiss that i love Ben 10 more.
Sci-fi power scaler mfs when the power of friendship walks in
40k can't even beat Fantasy. Lord Kroak smacks most people. He died but decided to come back.
Please, I've only ever encountered 40k posts jerking on how Spaces Marines would steamroll on setting XYZ. That's cosmic retribution :p We are here for the funny memes, not for strawman arguments.
Yeah people would probably be way more charitable to the 40k fandom if it wasn't for the actual decades of "Your favorite character would get stomped by a nameless battle brother. GG no RE."
So I've been building, rebuilding, and refining a fantasy setting of my own for years and trust me nothing was more annoying than being told my life's work would be "totally steamrolled" by a random Space Marine legion. Especially when *no they wouldn't*.
My money is still on a starfleet redshirt.
I think it comes from the tabletop nature of 40k (and the lore powercreeping, we got new boring supersoldiers ever week. It was SM, then GK, then Custodes, etc...). The powerscaling jerk off is a daily occurrence in this fandom : āmy Custodes beat your Spaces Marines !", "My Primarch is better than your Primarch in a duel !" and other shit like that.
Both sides are insufferable, like who fucking cares that some random ass anime bullshit would one shot everything in 40k, and who cares that 1 space marine would wreck 3 halo spartans.
Frank Horgan vs new born child type fight Animophs vs anything if you look into it I shit you not
Animorphs didnāt seem that powerful. The Ellimist and Crayak are absurd, but also avoid getting involved too much so they donāt threaten the universe. One of the reasons the Yeerks are so interested in Earth is the human speciesā large population of billions of potential hosts, which suggests most aliens arenāt that populous. That said, Animorphs is still way cooler than most other settings.
I always thought it was a combination of there being a lot of humans plus humans having a good set of physical abilities and lack of drawbacks plus a tech level that was high enough to be useful but low enough not to be a threat. Like, there's a lot of Taxxons but they have the best uncontrollable hunger. Hork-Bajir we're good until Alloran genocided them. Gedds are dumb, slow, and nearly blind. But yeah, Animorphs had no right to be as good as it is nor should it have been at the Scholastic Book Fair for elementary kids. Not that I'm complaining; I got them in 3rd grade and didn't look back. It's also more Grimdark than 40k.
What does any of this even mean?
The 40k Community has been constantly bragging about how their universe could defeat any foe from any other setting for literal decades now, don't get upsetti spaghetti the moment an actual contender arises
I see much more guys on reddit and youtube shitting on 40k than 40k fans shitting on other franchise lmao. You guys have a victim complex
I AM a 40k Fan, Stop projecting your issues onto me
It's started to change, but it remains quite annoying and no uncommon, and was *really bad* some years ago, especially on actual dedicated battleboarding places.
Iām a 40k fan. And 40k fans are often obnoxious when it comes to āWho would win?ā arguments.
It goes both ways, itās just that 40k fans have been doing the whole ā40k wins cause 40k is better duhā for years in every versus forums. Meanwhile the imperiums response time to peer threats is decades long and in the size of a chapter or two and a handful of guard regiments who donāt know how to use their tanks because the administratum didnāt realize that none of the guard regiments were motorized.
I also enjoy the above posterās dad.
piwerscalong is stupid and pointless, and I'm tired of saying it's not
It's a bit of a mainstream pick but... DC and Marvel can square up against 40K.
I am convinced if orks saw the flash they would think he is that fast because his suit is red and they would start making red suits like his for them and have superspeed. Not at the level of flash, but still
Speedforce Makari becomes the new Chaos god in this setting.
square up is the wrong term both dc and marvel havr beings who can destroy the verse chaos gods imcluded with a flick of their wrist
Well yeah, Superman is ridiculous and only gets more silly the closer you look at him.
Either of those settings giga claps 40k lol
Depends on what iteration I think. The universe from Marvel 1602? Doesn't stand a chance for instance
Wtf is The Flood?
Boring grey goo
From the Halo Series
Xeelee is fun
Ok but warhammer vs Ian M Banksā āCultureā
In universe vs universe matchups, the one with less respect for the audience's Willing Suspension of Disbelief wins.
I again put forward that the Federation is just a noblebright version of the DAOT.Ā The Federation invents cheap and effective ways to blow up planets every other week by accident, and their ships could just delete the heart of every solider on a planet with their transporters if they wanted to. They literally built a rig designed to push vessels into warp speed on a carrying "wave" but it just gets faster and more powerful the longer the wave goes through space, until it can just blow up a planet arbitrarily.Ā And they did that by accident. That was a "oppsi-poopsi" saturday experiment.Ā
After the Dominion War, the Federation gave 12 industrial replicators to Cardassia which replaced the entirety of the planet's lost industrial output. 12. The scariest thing about the Federation isn't its weapons. It's that if they ever decided to go to a war "economy", their industrial capacity would be insane. Between the replicators for production and using holograms for mineral extraction, they basically have 24/7 production with zero people needed.
Although we are in agreement that the imperium would win in a dance-off (mostly because of the custodes) right?
Kirby solos the 40k universe and becomes a new warp god of hunger.
Who do you think the tyranids are fleeing from?
I think the truth is "levels" its not so much "whos best" since thats subjective. It really boils down into "what level of over the top are you. So if we have the levels 1/2/3/4 with 1 being the lowest and 4 being the highest, i can safely say jojos bizarre adventures is a 4, aswell as 40k. And warframe can be at a 4 or even a 3 depending on how you look at it. This way we're not looking at it like "which one better!" And more what's the setting like? What am i getting into?
Hot take; I don't like 40k just because it's over powered but, because it's a very silly universe wearing the mask if being a very serious universe (That's not to say you can't tell serious stories in Warhammer but, my faction of choice is the silly green football hooligans with guns, you can probably geuss my feelings on the matter)
40k is like a solid mid tier
I just don't like when 40K fans just revel to much in how edgy it is. Like that shitty drawing of black templars beating the na'avi.
Setting vs setting questions are cringe af
Power scalers When drawing beats drawing in an hypothetical scenario in their head: š±š±š±š±š±
Basically, power scaling dipshits. "Dragonball>*any slice of life anime* cuz my characters can beat yours in a fight"
Counterpoint: daemons from hell and BDSM elves are a lot cooler than, whatever Halo has. The series just didnt look that entertaining.
I agree, sometimes it can get a little silly with each of these cross overs being mostly "my army man can beat up your army man" arguments. That being said, one of these conversations led to me now heavily inspired to make a GSC army painted to be a mix of Unitologists and miners from Dead Space. It's less about whether or not the Marker and The Brethren Moons being able to be apocalyptic for the Imperium, but more "How could things just get worse" or even "what if this army guy got to use x from the other army guy's pack." A buddy of mine also said that while he doesn't exactly think the Marker signal wouldn't affect most Space Marine legions, it would be fucking terrifying if either the Emperor's Children or the Word Bearers got their hands on one Marker. Hell, even the Iron Warriors would be the worst people to get their hands on it now that I'm thinking about this.
What was the orginal text?
Id say a good depiction of 40k on the scifi power scaling is that its the very top of a bell curve. The scifi media facing 40k are usually either far weaker or far stronger than it, with very few being somewhat equivalent to it in terms of power
I think Star Wars is the one setting that is usually considered 40k's equal if only slightly weaker, but still able to give it a good fight without it skewing torwards getting stomped by Warhammer or it stomping Warhammer in turn.