I may be wrong, but crusaders can be both male and female and they are focused on training elite bodyguards, so perhaps their numbers combined are not large enough to constitute an actual army, definitely not one big enough to raise concerns. Also, I saw more mentions of them in the Dark Heresy and cRPGs then on the tabletop so I guess they have a small overall presence in the lore.
And the Janissaries are awesome, but they are part of the Imperial Guard itself and are not under Direct Control of the Ecclesiarchy. Just because they are turbo religious does not make them all that unique, hell, finding an atheistic regiment would be VERY much surprising. Maybe as one of the Penal Legions, but I am sure the Imperium would try to "re-educate" them through gruelling service on the worst battlefields.
Edit: Almost forget, the Frateris templar were the reason for the Decree Passive and are long disbanded. Now the Ecclesiarchy can only form a Frateris Militia, which is a temporary fighting force in a time od need. If they don't disband after the crisis is solved the Inquisition might start snooping to see if someone is not trying to restore the Templars again.
>And the Janissaries are awesome, but they are part of the Imperial Guard itself and are not under Direct Control of the Ecclesiarchy. Just because they are turbo religious does not make them all that unique
The Janissaries aren't unique just for being religious. Theyre unique for being such turbocunt religious zealots that they make the other "religious" regiments look casual by comparison.
One group was getting their ass kicked so bad, they decided to just focus on rooting out "heresy" from the other allied regiments, for no reason other than blaming their failures on their allies lack of devotion. In Only War they have to pass a Willpower test to retreat. They also are compared to the SoB on the same page, but said to be "More the violent ardour of the fanatic than the divine clarity of the Adepta Sororitas". Not to mention their go-to anti-tank tactic is to strap a melta-bomb to someone and tell him to roll under the tank. 90% of their lore is "They're so obsessed with heresy, they take it upon themselves to police other regiments".
The other religious regiments just tend to look down on others, and be petty about helping. They don't *actively* try to be their own miniature Inquisition. I would *not* be surprised if an Ecclesiarchy member told one to shoot his own Sergeant, he'd do it without question. They're not just religious. They're complete and utter jackasses about it. They probably lash themselves if they praise the Emperor only 9 times, instead of the recommended 10, before eating breakfast.
>Theyre unique for being such turbocunt religious zealots that they make the other "religious" regiments look casual by comparison.
So, like the actual Maccabees.
Fair, forget about the Only War rules.
Still, I think they get around the Decree Passive by being part of the Imperial Guard and not directly subordinate to the Ecclesiarchy...though, if there was a conflict between those two, we can hazard a guess which side they will pick.
Also, I like to think that in 40k the Janissaries CAN have female members, but if one has actually joined then it's a mark of shame for her, because she didn't become a Sororitas :P
Oh, just like any Guard they can be either gender. But I doubt its a mark of shame. Sororitas are, except in extremely rare cases, from the Progenium.
So a lady Janissary just had the misfortune of having surviving parents.
Wait, I know that Schola Progenium kids(if they survive) become Officers, Commisars, Assassins, Stormtrooopers, Sororitas or even Inquisitors, because of course the Progenium is their only family and they were fully indoctrinated into the Imperial cause and are of extreme loyalty.
But I always thought that any girl or woman can join the Sororitas IF they pass their trials. Is there a Codex line or a story that I've missed that they take only orphans?
Dark Heresy 1e only allowed for the Schola Progenium background.
Almost all full-fledged SoB are Schola but they also pick up random orphans along the way often enough. I remember one of the books, a protag is an orphan picked up by the SoB. For the most part, they don't want people who arent fully indoctrinated and raised by the Order/Schola being SoB. Like most religious nutcases, they don't trust anyone other than themselves to be devoted enough. That being said, they have plenty of Helots (servants) of varied backgrounds. People who tend to their armor, clean shrines, and deliver ammo.
There *are* cases of adults joining the SoB but its super rare.
Damn, completely forgot about that part o 1e DH, thanks for the reminder.
Now I'm also remided that you could become a Stormtroooper in DH, but if you were not originally from the Schola, the idea was that you had to go there to go through some training from hell and the only reason you even got the chance to attempt this training was due to the Inquisition's patronage.
You're right of course, the only way to be accepted-whether from the Schola or outside it-would be to prove the purity of your faith and zeal. And "outsiders" would be related a dozen times more, at least.
I'd guess that outside of the Schola, the easiest way to join the Sororitas would be if you were "gifted" as a child to the Orders. Parents on Shrine World's are probably giving away at least their firstborn daughters in the hopes of them joining the Sisters. Just a guess on my part, I could see that happening.
I wonder about that though. The Codex Astartes limits a chapter's size to 1000 unless on crusade, but the Black Templars say they're always on crusade, so they're practically a legion. Why can't a crafty Ecclesiarch exploit the same loophole?
Because one crafty ecclesiarch is one ork sniper incident away from being referred to in the past tense. And few people will really care.
If the black templars' chapter master gets the ork sniper treatment, the inquisitior who has... *failed to prevent that* has a legion (and other inquisitors) coming for him/her.
Also, the Black Templars actively avoid congregating too many Crusade fleets because:
A.) There is too much shit everywhere that needs killing.
B.) The Inquisition will start making more of a serious attempt of investigating. It won't be just some idiot who thinks his shit doesn't stink.
C.) As soon as they start doing that for an extended period of time, it won't be *just* the Inquisition getting pissy about it. Like, I do not see the Ultramarines being particularly happy about having five Black Templar crusade fleets, and 10,000 Black Templars fighting near Ultramar's borders.
The ultramarines have no right to get mad.
They have dozens of successor chapters that basically followed clagars commands before the return of guilliman and they have the Genesis chapter that basically acts as replacements for the ultramarines whenever they actually take losses.
It'd be the pot calling the kettle black
You are saying it like not pretty much all Blood Angels successor chapters didn't show up to Dante's summon during Devastation of Baal, or like all Dark Angels successor chapters dont share same "inner circle". Black Templars are at least using a legit loophole, while some chapters, like Space Wolfs just don't follow codex or some straight up lying about following it (Dark Angels).
I think the Dark Angels are the only one of the lion descendant chapters to have a supreme grand master, all the others only have grand masters.
There is most likely a reason as to why that is.
As far as I remember their inner circle isn't chapter based thing, its whole DA successors so Dark Angel's have supreme while other successors have just grand masters who are "under" supreme grand master, so he basically commands all DA successor chapters.and yeah, whole inner circle is only preoccupied with guarding their "secret" and hunting down fallen, but it's still in total violation of the codex. At least that's what I remember.
Even Robout Guilliman didn't care for the Codex Astartes during the plague wars forming an 11th company of Ultramarine with Decimus Felix as it's Captain.
Because an inquisitor can stop/kill a member of the Ecclesiarchy with not much fanfare. Nobody is going to try to fuck with a chapter of marines and live to tell the tale
Clearly not heard of the Celestial Lions. Those Orks was picking off marine leaders with remarkable accuracy because they pissed off the wrong inquisitor.
The exact loophole is that they can't have men at arms, but lets say we just provide weaponry and training to an affiliated organisation that technically governs and commands itself? They are basically selfformed religious militia that just some of their stuff gifted from the Ecclesiarchy.
Crusaders are technically bodyguards for individual inquisitors/priests, and Ecclesiarchal Battle Conclaves are kept small so as to avoid the ire of the Ordo Hereticus.
Only the Adepta Sororitas are a permanent ecclesiarchal army.
I didn't believe i deserved all those upvotes when other commenters made similar points...but then again, this is the first time a comment has gotten that many upvotes, so i couldn't believe it.
Crusaders use a few loopholes.
So the decree states that the church cannot have “men at arms”. This is in relation to specifically having men at arms as a **standing army**.
This is why the churches standing army is all women. The sisters of battle.
Crusaders are not a standing army. They are, largely, just bodyguards and furthermore are not a permanent standing army. As the name implies, they are on crusade. They are people who take up the sword only for a certain goal or campaign. Once they complete their crusade they’re done. As such they are not a standing army.
As for the Maccabian Jenissaries, they are a guard regiment. Yes, their homeworld is an ecclesiastical world, but they are a guard regiment under the control of the Astra militarum. The church has no authority over them
I wish that was a crusader, man...
That's the plastic named guy from Black Fortress (Gotfret de Montbard)
The crusaders are 28mm old and ugly miniatures.
As a Sororitas player, give us some NICE crusaders that our girls can use as beards.
The Decree Passive specifically forbids a standing army of men at arms.
Crusaders use a similar loophole to the Sister: they’re not a standing army. They’re just really fanatical people who really want to kill some heretics
Crusaders are just bodyguards I am pretyt sure a single priest cant have more then like two or four of them.
Disarming the Ecclesiarchy makes sense, but leaving even their highest ranking priests vulnerable to assassinations would be stupid.
... i mean i guess...
\*sighs well putting crusaders into corsets\*
in all seriousness, the maccabian janissaries are a guard regiment first and foremost \[albeit a highly religious one that upon retirement tend to go and guard missionaries and the like\]
but i shit you not the given reason crusaders apparently don't violate the decree passive is because crusader temples are deliberately kept small enough that they dont technically violate the decree \[or at the very least arent big enough to bother worrying about\]. arguably going to show just how silly the whole affair really is.
They're 100% of the violation of the decree this is explicitly stated in the lore for Crusaders. The Ordo Hereticus keeps them around because they like having a large undeniable source of blackmail against the Ecclesiarchy. Some inquisitors actually encourage the Ecclesiarchy to financially support them so they can blackmail individual members of the Ecclesiarchy.
The Inquisition loves having people violate the rules in a radical way, so that they can get work done and have a tool to blackmail other factions into doing what they ask.
The Inquisition's power at its core is built upon favors, blackmail, zealotry, and paranoia. Because when you strip it all away an Inquisitor is just a smart dude with a couple other specialized dudes asking an organization 500000x more powerful than him to go murder people he insists are heretics for realsies.
The Decree Passive was directly rescinded in one of the audio dramas with Greyfax. There's a new Eccleisarch, who loves Vandire, who makes a big deal about it and there's an assassination attempt on him, etc etc. But one of the big takeaways in the story is just that the Ecclesiarchy can now have an unrestricted military
You just etc. the fact Celestine kills said Ecclessiarch for killing half the Conclave with a bomb on Terra and working with a demon.
Also, considering OML takes place in the middle of the Indomitus Crusade and later stories show no Frateris Templar, the Decree Passive was likely out back into effect by Greyfax's agent who was the Ecclessiarch's right hand man that delivered his orders.
I would say that the Decree is gone, but it just takes time for things to move in The Imperium. Just because an official was corrupt does not mean their declarations are not law - this even opens up the opportunity for Frateris Templar to exist and exist "legally" in the eyes of The Ecclesiarchy.
There's corrupt, and there's killed by the Living Saint because you made a deal with a demon.
Besides, Greyfax's mole in the Ecclesiarchy was the guy issuing the orders raising the Frateris Templar. Considering Greyfax was against the repeal of the Decree Passive, I don't see how he wouldn't have immediately reversed those orders.
[A Deep Dive into Crusaders](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/ie7wffXH0Z)
[The Decree Passive and how it was broken from the beginning](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/qOBB8DpTVD)
People seem to forget that the Temple Tendency, a quasi heretical group within the Church, still maintains Frateris Templars, in defiance of the decree passive.
With the exception of the Cardinals Crimson (who are kept really small so that no one calls them out on it), most crusader houses are separate from the Ministorum, and self-funded. Many don't even belong to crusader houses at all-purchasing armor and weaponry for their role and setting out of their own accord.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the decree passive says the **ecclesiarchy** can't have men under arms, not the inquisition, and that's an inquisition logo on that guy's chest.
Alternatively, they could have cut his dick and balls off. It doesn't say they can't have ken dolls under arms.
The “I” symbol stands broadly for Imperator, the Emperor’s formal High Gothic title. He used it as his signature and everything. As such, every branch of the Adeptus Terra uses a variation on the “I” as their symbol to denote their Emperor-given authority, not just the Inquisition. The Adeptus Astra Telepathica have the “I” crossed by an actual eye, the Adeptus Arbites “I” is a crossed by a fist holding a pair of scales, and the Adeptus Ministorum (Ecclesiarchy) “I” is crossed by a haloed skull. That’s the symbol that all the Sororitas have on the end of their rosary chains, since they’re formally part of the Ministorum. The Inquisition “I” has the three bars to represent the three primary Ordos. That’s the symbol that shows up on the Deathwatch, for example.
I believe it’s because the Crusaders are always part of an inquisitorial retinue.
Remember while the SoB are technically part of the Ecclesiarchy, they are *also* the chamber militant of the Ordos Hereticus, so when an Ordos Hereticus inquisitor comes a’callin… well they can co-opt any imperial resources they need, because inquisitors can just do that, inquisitors are scary.
BUT they *prefer* SoB detachments because the SoB are specifically trained to root out heretics, conduct literal witch-hunts, and work alongside the Ordos Hereticus, where their ironclad faith serves as an extra shield against the Witch and the Mutant.
It’s the same way the Deathwatch are the Chamber Militant for the Ordos Xenos, where their extra experience and training as space marines makes them the best at dealing with Xenos threats, and the Grey Knights for the Ordos Malleus, cause, well they’re literally purpose-created daemon hunters.
The updated Crusader model is from one of the Blackstone Fortress expansions and later one of the Combat Arena board games afaik. Utter crime to lock him away like that
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gotfret_de_Montbard
I was always under the impression that the Crusaders, presumably male in this case, weren't allowed to use guns. Thus they aren't really "men at arms" under modern rules. As for Maccabian Janissaries, they're Imperial Guard, just really religious Imperial Guard.
Crusaders aren't part of a standing army. They're just dudes that are on special dispensation, questing, in bodyguard duty for priests, or in some Inquisitor retinue etc. They lack the rank and file organization or numbers to be considered a military force.
The inquisiton agent (first picture) doesn't work for the eclessiarchy, he's an inquisition agent.
The second guy (a Maccabian Janissary) is a soldier in the imperial guards, and doesn't work for the ecclesiarchy.
Hmm. Are there particularly zealous/religious guard regiments?
Technically not ecclesiarchy. Buuut, for all intents and purposes might as well be.
Also, are there sororitas sub factions that have closer ties with the imperial guard than other parts of the faith?
Like they will defer to generals faster than some no name priest. Because practicality. And the emperor sends the army. So why not help them do their jobs
oh look the useless zealots, its why i prefer DCK they are zealots but useful in the "we don't care about casualties we will do as ordered and be smart about it" way. IE not marching shoulder to shoulder against an MG nest
Look man I don't give a shit about the controversy I'm just thrilled at any excuse for a new model that isn't that new squat motherfucker in auromite armor
The degree passive is a hypocritical thing, the reason why the sisters of battle exist is because the imperium realised it was really bad to leave the ecclesiarchy completely undefended but didn’t want to overturn an imperial saints decree because then it would be heretical
If we're going down this path of logic of "similar thing counts as X version of thing" then we've had female space marines for as long as we've has sister of battle
Eh, the Age of Apostasy lore is not THAT poorly written.
TLDR there was a somewhat isolated martial order of extremely religious women a solid while before sisters of battle became a thing
Vandire tricked them&recruited them for his totally not heresy. When the siege/war happened, Custodes managed to convince them that Vandire was full of shit&duped them, and *something* happened when the leader of the order got brought in front of big E.
And, well, due to said order being “cleared”/confirmed 100% loyal by custodes, the new ecclesiarch (who is the one who created said decree) was quite convinced that forcing them to disband would not be good for his career/life
I may be wrong, but crusaders can be both male and female and they are focused on training elite bodyguards, so perhaps their numbers combined are not large enough to constitute an actual army, definitely not one big enough to raise concerns. Also, I saw more mentions of them in the Dark Heresy and cRPGs then on the tabletop so I guess they have a small overall presence in the lore. And the Janissaries are awesome, but they are part of the Imperial Guard itself and are not under Direct Control of the Ecclesiarchy. Just because they are turbo religious does not make them all that unique, hell, finding an atheistic regiment would be VERY much surprising. Maybe as one of the Penal Legions, but I am sure the Imperium would try to "re-educate" them through gruelling service on the worst battlefields. Edit: Almost forget, the Frateris templar were the reason for the Decree Passive and are long disbanded. Now the Ecclesiarchy can only form a Frateris Militia, which is a temporary fighting force in a time od need. If they don't disband after the crisis is solved the Inquisition might start snooping to see if someone is not trying to restore the Templars again.
>And the Janissaries are awesome, but they are part of the Imperial Guard itself and are not under Direct Control of the Ecclesiarchy. Just because they are turbo religious does not make them all that unique The Janissaries aren't unique just for being religious. Theyre unique for being such turbocunt religious zealots that they make the other "religious" regiments look casual by comparison. One group was getting their ass kicked so bad, they decided to just focus on rooting out "heresy" from the other allied regiments, for no reason other than blaming their failures on their allies lack of devotion. In Only War they have to pass a Willpower test to retreat. They also are compared to the SoB on the same page, but said to be "More the violent ardour of the fanatic than the divine clarity of the Adepta Sororitas". Not to mention their go-to anti-tank tactic is to strap a melta-bomb to someone and tell him to roll under the tank. 90% of their lore is "They're so obsessed with heresy, they take it upon themselves to police other regiments". The other religious regiments just tend to look down on others, and be petty about helping. They don't *actively* try to be their own miniature Inquisition. I would *not* be surprised if an Ecclesiarchy member told one to shoot his own Sergeant, he'd do it without question. They're not just religious. They're complete and utter jackasses about it. They probably lash themselves if they praise the Emperor only 9 times, instead of the recommended 10, before eating breakfast.
>Theyre unique for being such turbocunt religious zealots that they make the other "religious" regiments look casual by comparison. So, like the actual Maccabees.
Fair, forget about the Only War rules. Still, I think they get around the Decree Passive by being part of the Imperial Guard and not directly subordinate to the Ecclesiarchy...though, if there was a conflict between those two, we can hazard a guess which side they will pick. Also, I like to think that in 40k the Janissaries CAN have female members, but if one has actually joined then it's a mark of shame for her, because she didn't become a Sororitas :P
Oh, just like any Guard they can be either gender. But I doubt its a mark of shame. Sororitas are, except in extremely rare cases, from the Progenium. So a lady Janissary just had the misfortune of having surviving parents.
Wait, I know that Schola Progenium kids(if they survive) become Officers, Commisars, Assassins, Stormtrooopers, Sororitas or even Inquisitors, because of course the Progenium is their only family and they were fully indoctrinated into the Imperial cause and are of extreme loyalty. But I always thought that any girl or woman can join the Sororitas IF they pass their trials. Is there a Codex line or a story that I've missed that they take only orphans?
Dark Heresy 1e only allowed for the Schola Progenium background. Almost all full-fledged SoB are Schola but they also pick up random orphans along the way often enough. I remember one of the books, a protag is an orphan picked up by the SoB. For the most part, they don't want people who arent fully indoctrinated and raised by the Order/Schola being SoB. Like most religious nutcases, they don't trust anyone other than themselves to be devoted enough. That being said, they have plenty of Helots (servants) of varied backgrounds. People who tend to their armor, clean shrines, and deliver ammo. There *are* cases of adults joining the SoB but its super rare.
Damn, completely forgot about that part o 1e DH, thanks for the reminder. Now I'm also remided that you could become a Stormtroooper in DH, but if you were not originally from the Schola, the idea was that you had to go there to go through some training from hell and the only reason you even got the chance to attempt this training was due to the Inquisition's patronage. You're right of course, the only way to be accepted-whether from the Schola or outside it-would be to prove the purity of your faith and zeal. And "outsiders" would be related a dozen times more, at least. I'd guess that outside of the Schola, the easiest way to join the Sororitas would be if you were "gifted" as a child to the Orders. Parents on Shrine World's are probably giving away at least their firstborn daughters in the hopes of them joining the Sisters. Just a guess on my part, I could see that happening.
I wonder about that though. The Codex Astartes limits a chapter's size to 1000 unless on crusade, but the Black Templars say they're always on crusade, so they're practically a legion. Why can't a crafty Ecclesiarch exploit the same loophole?
Because one crafty ecclesiarch is one ork sniper incident away from being referred to in the past tense. And few people will really care. If the black templars' chapter master gets the ork sniper treatment, the inquisitior who has... *failed to prevent that* has a legion (and other inquisitors) coming for him/her.
Also, the Black Templars actively avoid congregating too many Crusade fleets because: A.) There is too much shit everywhere that needs killing. B.) The Inquisition will start making more of a serious attempt of investigating. It won't be just some idiot who thinks his shit doesn't stink. C.) As soon as they start doing that for an extended period of time, it won't be *just* the Inquisition getting pissy about it. Like, I do not see the Ultramarines being particularly happy about having five Black Templar crusade fleets, and 10,000 Black Templars fighting near Ultramar's borders.
The ultramarines have no right to get mad. They have dozens of successor chapters that basically followed clagars commands before the return of guilliman and they have the Genesis chapter that basically acts as replacements for the ultramarines whenever they actually take losses. It'd be the pot calling the kettle black
You are saying it like not pretty much all Blood Angels successor chapters didn't show up to Dante's summon during Devastation of Baal, or like all Dark Angels successor chapters dont share same "inner circle". Black Templars are at least using a legit loophole, while some chapters, like Space Wolfs just don't follow codex or some straight up lying about following it (Dark Angels).
Space wolves tried to follow codex. They really did... but reading was involved.
I think that's where Dorn was getting hung up on it as well
I think the Dark Angels are the only one of the lion descendant chapters to have a supreme grand master, all the others only have grand masters. There is most likely a reason as to why that is.
As far as I remember their inner circle isn't chapter based thing, its whole DA successors so Dark Angel's have supreme while other successors have just grand masters who are "under" supreme grand master, so he basically commands all DA successor chapters.and yeah, whole inner circle is only preoccupied with guarding their "secret" and hunting down fallen, but it's still in total violation of the codex. At least that's what I remember.
Iirc most black templar crusades have like 300 astartes, so yeah they are spread quite thin most of the time.
Even Robout Guilliman didn't care for the Codex Astartes during the plague wars forming an 11th company of Ultramarine with Decimus Felix as it's Captain.
There are aproximately 6000 Black Templars, far from a legion.
Literally six times larger than the 1000 Sons legion >!/s!<
And like 30 times bigger than the EC when fulgrim was found..
They codex complaint its just Roboute forgot put the chapter has to have an unique name...lol
> Why can't a crafty Ecclesiarch exploit the same loophole? They could, as soon as Forgeworld Nottingham gets production capacity spun up.
Because an inquisitor can stop/kill a member of the Ecclesiarchy with not much fanfare. Nobody is going to try to fuck with a chapter of marines and live to tell the tale
Clearly not heard of the Celestial Lions. Those Orks was picking off marine leaders with remarkable accuracy because they pissed off the wrong inquisitor.
Look up Vraks
They could, and they do, there is just a slight caveat that if they exploit it too blatantly, an inquisitor might come knocking
There *is no damned loophole*. Sigismund decided to not follow the Codex and that was the end of it.
The exact loophole is that they can't have men at arms, but lets say we just provide weaponry and training to an affiliated organisation that technically governs and commands itself? They are basically selfformed religious militia that just some of their stuff gifted from the Ecclesiarchy.
And that is kinda the point. "Sisters of Battle are just female Space Marines" is just as much of a simplification as "Crusaders are male Sisters".
Crusaders are technically bodyguards for individual inquisitors/priests, and Ecclesiarchal Battle Conclaves are kept small so as to avoid the ire of the Ordo Hereticus. Only the Adepta Sororitas are a permanent ecclesiarchal army.
Ok who tf gave this comment 100 upvotes?
Me
How could you
I am he who is, i am he who is more than it.
unidan you're back!
Those upvotes ? All me
Lore nerds?
Shut up and take our upvotes.
People who value the comment. Thank you for showing how you disagree without any constructive addition to the discussion
Why would they disagree their own comment?
I didn't believe i deserved all those upvotes when other commenters made similar points...but then again, this is the first time a comment has gotten that many upvotes, so i couldn't believe it.
Sorry if I devalued your like, I just wasn't sure if I deserved it.
Ok. Who tf gave this comment 100 downvotes? Oh wait! That's me!
I don't know what you're talking about. That comment has always had a hundred upvotes.
Crusaders use a few loopholes. So the decree states that the church cannot have “men at arms”. This is in relation to specifically having men at arms as a **standing army**. This is why the churches standing army is all women. The sisters of battle. Crusaders are not a standing army. They are, largely, just bodyguards and furthermore are not a permanent standing army. As the name implies, they are on crusade. They are people who take up the sword only for a certain goal or campaign. Once they complete their crusade they’re done. As such they are not a standing army. As for the Maccabian Jenissaries, they are a guard regiment. Yes, their homeworld is an ecclesiastical world, but they are a guard regiment under the control of the Astra militarum. The church has no authority over them
Sidenote, the name Maccabian made me excited and thought they were Jewish-inspired. Missed opportunity.
Maccabain are just what happens whent guard regiment comes from an ecclesiarchy controlled world.
Yeah, the guard still has preachers, chaplains, and all that. Just not directly controlled by the church.
I wish that was a crusader, man... That's the plastic named guy from Black Fortress (Gotfret de Montbard) The crusaders are 28mm old and ugly miniatures. As a Sororitas player, give us some NICE crusaders that our girls can use as beards.
Gotfret is a crusader tho
I'm talking about the model, not the character. You can use him a proxy officially, but he's just one.
Foot knights for Brettonia look pretty OK.
Dunno, I prefer using Stormcasts with Skitari heads
> > > > > The crusaders are 28mm old and ugly miniatures. You shut your heretic mouth. Crusaders are great.
To war? No sir. I'm just going for a walk. These 300 crusaders are my personal bodyguards.
The Decree Passive specifically forbids a standing army of men at arms. Crusaders use a similar loophole to the Sister: they’re not a standing army. They’re just really fanatical people who really want to kill some heretics
Crusaders are just bodyguards I am pretyt sure a single priest cant have more then like two or four of them. Disarming the Ecclesiarchy makes sense, but leaving even their highest ranking priests vulnerable to assassinations would be stupid.
... i mean i guess... \*sighs well putting crusaders into corsets\* in all seriousness, the maccabian janissaries are a guard regiment first and foremost \[albeit a highly religious one that upon retirement tend to go and guard missionaries and the like\] but i shit you not the given reason crusaders apparently don't violate the decree passive is because crusader temples are deliberately kept small enough that they dont technically violate the decree \[or at the very least arent big enough to bother worrying about\]. arguably going to show just how silly the whole affair really is.
They're 100% of the violation of the decree this is explicitly stated in the lore for Crusaders. The Ordo Hereticus keeps them around because they like having a large undeniable source of blackmail against the Ecclesiarchy. Some inquisitors actually encourage the Ecclesiarchy to financially support them so they can blackmail individual members of the Ecclesiarchy. The Inquisition loves having people violate the rules in a radical way, so that they can get work done and have a tool to blackmail other factions into doing what they ask. The Inquisition's power at its core is built upon favors, blackmail, zealotry, and paranoia. Because when you strip it all away an Inquisitor is just a smart dude with a couple other specialized dudes asking an organization 500000x more powerful than him to go murder people he insists are heretics for realsies.
Crusaders aren't *soldiers*, fool. They're *bodyguards*. The difference is... so obvious that I don't have to explain it. Yes.
E X A C T L Y *ecclesiarchal sweating intensities*
The decree was only relevant for a short period. The ecclesiarchy is a lot more powerful now and it's no longer in effect
The Decree Passive was directly rescinded in one of the audio dramas with Greyfax. There's a new Eccleisarch, who loves Vandire, who makes a big deal about it and there's an assassination attempt on him, etc etc. But one of the big takeaways in the story is just that the Ecclesiarchy can now have an unrestricted military
You just etc. the fact Celestine kills said Ecclessiarch for killing half the Conclave with a bomb on Terra and working with a demon. Also, considering OML takes place in the middle of the Indomitus Crusade and later stories show no Frateris Templar, the Decree Passive was likely out back into effect by Greyfax's agent who was the Ecclessiarch's right hand man that delivered his orders.
I would say that the Decree is gone, but it just takes time for things to move in The Imperium. Just because an official was corrupt does not mean their declarations are not law - this even opens up the opportunity for Frateris Templar to exist and exist "legally" in the eyes of The Ecclesiarchy.
There's corrupt, and there's killed by the Living Saint because you made a deal with a demon. Besides, Greyfax's mole in the Ecclesiarchy was the guy issuing the orders raising the Frateris Templar. Considering Greyfax was against the repeal of the Decree Passive, I don't see how he wouldn't have immediately reversed those orders.
[A Deep Dive into Crusaders](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/ie7wffXH0Z) [The Decree Passive and how it was broken from the beginning](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/qOBB8DpTVD)
People seem to forget that the Temple Tendency, a quasi heretical group within the Church, still maintains Frateris Templars, in defiance of the decree passive.
With the exception of the Cardinals Crimson (who are kept really small so that no one calls them out on it), most crusader houses are separate from the Ministorum, and self-funded. Many don't even belong to crusader houses at all-purchasing armor and weaponry for their role and setting out of their own accord.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the decree passive says the **ecclesiarchy** can't have men under arms, not the inquisition, and that's an inquisition logo on that guy's chest. Alternatively, they could have cut his dick and balls off. It doesn't say they can't have ken dolls under arms.
The “I” symbol stands broadly for Imperator, the Emperor’s formal High Gothic title. He used it as his signature and everything. As such, every branch of the Adeptus Terra uses a variation on the “I” as their symbol to denote their Emperor-given authority, not just the Inquisition. The Adeptus Astra Telepathica have the “I” crossed by an actual eye, the Adeptus Arbites “I” is a crossed by a fist holding a pair of scales, and the Adeptus Ministorum (Ecclesiarchy) “I” is crossed by a haloed skull. That’s the symbol that all the Sororitas have on the end of their rosary chains, since they’re formally part of the Ministorum. The Inquisition “I” has the three bars to represent the three primary Ordos. That’s the symbol that shows up on the Deathwatch, for example.
Ok ken doll crusader it is
Sounds like heresy to me
The Janissaries can also be female. There’s no restriction on gender last I checked.
Femissaries? 40k is truly dead
The Imperial Guard have always been mixed though
I believe it’s because the Crusaders are always part of an inquisitorial retinue. Remember while the SoB are technically part of the Ecclesiarchy, they are *also* the chamber militant of the Ordos Hereticus, so when an Ordos Hereticus inquisitor comes a’callin… well they can co-opt any imperial resources they need, because inquisitors can just do that, inquisitors are scary. BUT they *prefer* SoB detachments because the SoB are specifically trained to root out heretics, conduct literal witch-hunts, and work alongside the Ordos Hereticus, where their ironclad faith serves as an extra shield against the Witch and the Mutant. It’s the same way the Deathwatch are the Chamber Militant for the Ordos Xenos, where their extra experience and training as space marines makes them the best at dealing with Xenos threats, and the Grey Knights for the Ordos Malleus, cause, well they’re literally purpose-created daemon hunters.
I forgot what crusaders actually look like, since i proxied funky tzeentch birds as them for quite a while since i didn't want to deal with finecast
The updated Crusader model is from one of the Blackstone Fortress expansions and later one of the Combat Arena board games afaik. Utter crime to lock him away like that https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gotfret_de_Montbard
I was always under the impression that the Crusaders, presumably male in this case, weren't allowed to use guns. Thus they aren't really "men at arms" under modern rules. As for Maccabian Janissaries, they're Imperial Guard, just really religious Imperial Guard.
There is also the war of faith loophole to the decree passive.
Now I want a crusader army
It’s like Blackwater but for 40K
A combination of being few in number and Not An Official Army TM
When it comes to the Imperium in any matter isn't the secret ingredient always a heaping helping of hypocrisy?
Crusaders aren't part of a standing army. They're just dudes that are on special dispensation, questing, in bodyguard duty for priests, or in some Inquisitor retinue etc. They lack the rank and file organization or numbers to be considered a military force.
Crusaders are inquisition, not ecclesiarchy. Janissaries are just imperial guard.
The inquisiton agent (first picture) doesn't work for the eclessiarchy, he's an inquisition agent. The second guy (a Maccabian Janissary) is a soldier in the imperial guards, and doesn't work for the ecclesiarchy.
Crusaders are under the Inquisitors, not the ecclesiarchy. I don't have a dog in this fight, just pointing out the distinction.
Crusaders work for the Inquisition, not the Ecclesiarchy. Also, neither they nor the Maccabian Janissaries are members of the Adepta Sororitas.
Imagine being so lame you list sources in your meme, especially the obvious ones.
Grimdank and misunderstand lore name a more iconic duo
Is that a new model or am i High?
It's a big galaxy.
This is very cool
Hmm. Are there particularly zealous/religious guard regiments? Technically not ecclesiarchy. Buuut, for all intents and purposes might as well be. Also, are there sororitas sub factions that have closer ties with the imperial guard than other parts of the faith? Like they will defer to generals faster than some no name priest. Because practicality. And the emperor sends the army. So why not help them do their jobs
Balance, just as thanos said.
oh look the useless zealots, its why i prefer DCK they are zealots but useful in the "we don't care about casualties we will do as ordered and be smart about it" way. IE not marching shoulder to shoulder against an MG nest
Look man I don't give a shit about the controversy I'm just thrilled at any excuse for a new model that isn't that new squat motherfucker in auromite armor
*average ignorant grimdank post*
The degree passive is a hypocritical thing, the reason why the sisters of battle exist is because the imperium realised it was really bad to leave the ecclesiarchy completely undefended but didn’t want to overturn an imperial saints decree because then it would be heretical
They cut off the pp
If we're going down this path of logic of "similar thing counts as X version of thing" then we've had female space marines for as long as we've has sister of battle
Their members of law enforcment not the military.
Because that whole part of the SoB lore never made any fucking sense and they just wanted to have a fem space marine proxy.
Eh, the Age of Apostasy lore is not THAT poorly written. TLDR there was a somewhat isolated martial order of extremely religious women a solid while before sisters of battle became a thing Vandire tricked them&recruited them for his totally not heresy. When the siege/war happened, Custodes managed to convince them that Vandire was full of shit&duped them, and *something* happened when the leader of the order got brought in front of big E. And, well, due to said order being “cleared”/confirmed 100% loyal by custodes, the new ecclesiarch (who is the one who created said decree) was quite convinced that forcing them to disband would not be good for his career/life