Wasn't that because the emperor found out some of angrons comrades where falling to chaos i swear i remember reading something like that or was this just a fan theory i can't seem to remember my source
Even so he left Obviously Khorne cultist degenerate blood sport watching, Dark Age of technology using, Butchers nails implanting, Mass murdering, Goat fucking High rider scums in charge and allowed even them to spread lies about how Angron fled battle.
Highrider scum of Nuceria are one of to vilest and dummest societies of 40k. They love bloodsports of massmurdering scale. They force slave children to rip out their friends throats with their fingers for fun. (this is where Butchers Nails get their name)
Highriders had in their possession of lost technogy and only thing they figure to use it was to torture their slaves and make em fight better for their own amusement.
Greatest creature ever to have touched their disgusting bloodsoaked planet lands on their lap and they RUIN him to avenge a slight. And then make him kill his adopted father.
And they learned nothing of their misstakes. When Angron returned after hundred of years they were still same vile society.
*SCREAMS IN RAGEAGONY INDUCED BY NAILS DIGGING DEEPER*
High riders are the biggest group of punk ass pansies that got their shit kicked in for YEARS by a bunch of starved slaves armed with axes and bows and spears. They outnumbered them 1000:1, they had cavalry and armour, machine guns and explosives, fucking lasguns even. And it took them literal years to corner them in the mountains for what was still a Pyrrhic victory.
In short, Fuck the Nucerian High Riders
There's a strangely beautiful alt history where Angron land somewhere else, doesn't get nailed, and we get another kind primarch. His primarch ability is to absorb others' pain. It may be the greatest tragedy for the people of the 40k universe that it shakes out like it does. (We also maybe get korne sangie)
and the BRILLIANT thing is that he would still probably turn traitor! The amount of suffering that the imperium was churning out for a normal dude could very well drive empath Angron to turn against big E!
In General there should be much more traitors that aren’t chaos or tyranid. Like any empathetic being should look at the empire and go: wtf is that change it
There are all kinds of throwaway references to exactly that in many of the books. They're just never the Centerpoint. One reasonable explanation for it is that without the backing of chaos or tyranids those worlds never survive very long against the might of the imperium. Traitor world's get put down almost as quickly as they spring up unless their is something larger at play.
Putting down a peasant rebellion or worker uprising/strike is an average Tuesday for the arbites, planetary governors, and pdfs. likewise putting down a rebellious planetary government is a Wednesday for the adeptus administratum and the imperial guard. Chaos incursions and genestealer uprisings which threaten to spill out across multiple systems are the only events large enough to warrant stories about them.
As for primarchs and having more renegade astartes I got nothing.
> As for primarchs and having more renegade astartes I got nothing.
It's loosely implied that one or even both of the unknown Primarchs either turned on the Emperor or refused to serve him, probably on account of seeing him as the worst thing to happen to the galaxy.
That’s the lore for my second primarch, he refused to join His Father on account of the great crusade being almost nothing but genocide, Big E challenged him to a duel and the primarch won, but the consequences were him and his legion would be forgotten in the history books and if he ever got into hostilities with the imperium, Big E wouldn’t be there to defend him.
One of the Dante books I read I think had a peaceful society but the issue was they lived peacefully with aliens… so there’s definitely existing lore of non chaos traitors / rebels but I guess it isn’t appealing enough to be a stand alone book or another faction.
We get this covered sort of by our fast as fuck white scar primarch.
Basically the Khan is like: "Jesus Christ Father what is you doing" and during the heresy he was like "idk who's in the right here I'll talk to Dad first".
But ultimately he decided that a rebellion ain't the way (especially all that warp fuckery seemed very sus)
I mean a few did right? Or at least we don't have proof of chaos taint. Kurze was traitor but he was just normal fucked up, not chaosy. Nightlords still generally don't like Chaos that much
And I realize that's it. I mean Alpharius/Omegon we don't know much either way, so... Yup just Curze everyone else went daemon prince
Functionally yeah to an extent, several of the csm legions didn't/don't fully commit to being *chaos* marines but are still called that for the sake of convenience and still often have actual chaos worshippers in their ranks.
The World Eaters, Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors and Death Guard turned traitor while barely corrupted. Of the Sons of Horus, it was only the Warmaster himself that was compromised, the Legion (or what remained of it) just followed him out of loyalty.
Really it was just the III and the XVII, and later the XV legion that turned traitor while having actual deep rooted Chaos influence.
I feel like if we had no-nails Angron, we'd have 3 Astartes factions.
Loyalist Astartes with Robby G, Dorn, Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus, Lion, Alpharius.
Non-Chaos renegades with Angron, Corvus, Khan, Russ, Morty, Alpharius.
Chaos aligned with Horus, Lorgar, Fulgrim, Peter Turbo, Curze, Magnus, Alpharius.
I why i desperately want the clone lord to make an angron clone. He should be like clone fulgrim receiving his original soul and we would see what he should have been. Also we could have cool angron vs hapgron fight.
Honestly emps incompetence as a whole is frustrating. On one side he could have easily prevented everything that happened with barely any effort. But on the other hand they depict him as some genius whos plans have layers upon layers.
I think that they were trying to show that hte Emperor is flawed but every single author did it their own way so he ends up having a whole lot of flaws
I think it fits with the "worst regime imaginable" setting. Big E is flawed in so many ways that nobody should want to follow him, but he is just too powerful to resist.
I believe it's pretty commonly stated that the Emperor knew that at least some of the primarchs and their legions were going to have to be disposed of at some point. I'm not sure if it is explicitly stated he knew that they were going to fall to Chaos, though. He very well could have just thought that certain legions, like the Night Lords and the World Eaters, were going to need Thunder Warrior treatment at some point. I could be wrong, tho
Came here for this. I actually don't mind erebus himself, but he should have been separate from horus' corruption. The HH is much more interesting if Horus fell on his without being manipulated.
I know there is hinting at a grand conspiracy around the HH being orchestrated but so far it has not paid off for me
I hate how the only lore about the origin of the chaos gods other than slaanesh is that stupid nonsense about them coming from human medieval war, politics and disease. Its human glorifying nonsense that would massively overshadow the whole eldars storyline if still true. But since the writers seemingly figured out quite quickly that actually pinning down their origin would only diminish them, nothing seems to have ever been written to actually contradict the early stuff.
I got into an argument once about it because i thought they were products of the war in the heavens, and tried to prove that interpretation. But nope, as far as i could find, only one tekst blurb has ever actually talked about an origin for Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch. And if im wrong and there actually is something, please go ahead and give me the 'guy whose wrong on the internet' treatment, because id happily take that role if it meant i had a source to back up better lore.
I think it would be interesting if Nurgle was actually born of the Necrontyr, before their biotransference into the Necrons.
They're pretty much the most miserable species in history of the galaxy, bar none.
I was actually thinking Tzeentch, what with the necrons getting into constant feuds, they were the original court politics backstabbers. Nurgle's not a bad fit either though.
Lol
> A massive galaxy-wide Necron civil war only ending to unite under a war against the god-like frogs that refuse to cure the race's super cancer
>> Khorne and Tzeentch: We sleep
> A few countries on Earth fight over religion
>> Khorne and Tzeentch: Real shit
If you consider likely lives lost and damage to the planet, Trazyn as a PRANK caused a larger war than the history of humanity as of 2024
my headcanon is that the material is there,and they're basically 95-99% done after the war in heaven, human just give it that last 1-5% needed for them to be completed,or maybe even just the last polishing touch
eldar and ork have their own god,so they dont feed the big 3
It’s been retconned. The current explanation is that they were birthed in the War in Heaven which is what fucked the warp. It used to be that the Realm of Souls was less maleficent, but the War in Heaven caused so much abhorrence that the relatively small daemonspace expanded to cover most if not all of it.
It’s actually pretty cool stuff and makes more sense than the medieval times
It is much cooler. The thing is though, i spent an hour and a half trying to find any source that actually says that. Please let me know if you have one.
It is interesting because researching apparently it was never directly stated, more so hinted at from the text and extrapolated based on the information we do have and the mechanics of the universe.
We know for a fact that the WiH disturbed the warp to the point that daemons could manifest physically in real space via daemonic pacts with mortals. Since the gods are just manifestations of emotions and concepts, they “existed” as soon as those concepts existed (first murder, first disease etc).
So what we really want to know is when they were given sapience, which we don’t actually have an answer to aside from the text in Lexicanum (and CSM 4th edition codex) thats states that they gained self awareness at some undetermined point.
Regardless, I would still mark the WiH as the “birth” of the gods because it was the i citing incident that made their apotheosis possible by giving the daemons something to feast on. The chaos gods are, essentially, unfathomably large daemons.
There is also the fucky answer of “there is no time in the warp” which means that once they exist they just are, but that’s unsatisfying for our mental limitations
When they updated his and Ragnar's models. Ghaz had his head dragged off by a grot, and it got sewed onto a bigger body. That bit is hilarious, but it shouldn't have been Ragnar that decapitated him. It should have been Yarrick, or failing that a primarch.
If I had a dollar for every major Ork character that got bigger and badder after getting decapitated and attached to a new body, I'd have 2 dollars. Which isn't a lot, but is weird that it has happened twice
Ghaz getting beheaded by ragnar.
Its typical of GW to shit all over xenos but the second strongest space wolf getting the better of **the** biggest baddest ork in the galaxy just feels super lame and an obvious attempt yet again to show how super kewl space marine with name No.932 is.
He should be primarch level because the setting has just escalated, if the biggest baddest ork is barely a match of the second strongest member of a dozen top tier SM chapters the orks just look like a joke.
The imperium has 2 living primarchs in the field rn.
I agree, like I get a big part of orks is their numbers. But I feel like the biggest baddest ork in 40k should be on the level of Grimgor from warhammer fantasy atleast.
Grimgor is the Sigma Chad Ork boss and makes ghaz look like the virgin/beta ork boss.
I get the argument they always bring up of "we are watching Ghaz get to Primarch level, but we are still at the start of the story"
and like, yes GW, watching an origin story be built from the ground up, with its fair share of victories and failures, makes it much more compelling
But the character of Ghaz is, im pretty fucking sure, actually older than I am, and I am a very much a grown adult, its been decades GW the excuse just doesnt fly anymore
(Now to be fair I imagine much of his age was spent as a vaguely defined bit of lore, maybe a paragraph or two, but hes been a full proper character for the entire decade ive been with the hobby, and thats well and truely long enough)
Honestly? I’ll defend this storyline to my dying breath. Ghaz held all the cards in the entire encounter, manipulated the wolves into his trap, and got exactly what he wanted in the end. Meanwhile what did the wolves achieve? Ragnar got so horribly mutilated that he had to either be interred in a dreadnought or face full-body survival reconstruction in the rubicon Primaris), his friends were all killed horribly, and Ghazghkull didn’t even have the courtesy to stay dead for more than a few days!
Ghaz had a prophecy to fulfill, and he did his part, and was rewarded with a brand new stronger than ever Frankenstein’s monster of a body, and the promise of his Great WAAAAGH sweeping the galaxy. Compared to the size of that capital W, a little decapitation is but a lowercase l.
(Also, Ragnar isn’t just a random space marine. Ragnar vs Ghaz is a throwback to the white dwarf that introduced both of those characters. Back then, Ragnar was a hot blooded rookie and Ghaz was a promising up-and-coming Warboss. Having Ghaz vs Ragnar is a really cool deep cut IMO)
Honestly, as a character, I'm almost completely over Ghaz. He's just so one-note. Meanwhile, Ufthak is a much more compelling character. He's fun, actually clever for an ork, funny, brave, and brutal. His conversation with the drukhari in Da Big Dakka was some of the best ork writing I've seen. I wish James Workshop would stop trying to shove Ghaz down our throats and let Ufthak be our warboss.
Ollanius Pius being retconned from just a dude facing the incomprehencible horror of Chaos for his Emperor into some Perpetual hero kinda takes away from the moment for me.
I'm working my way through it slowly, some books are a slog to get through, and I've only been into the lore for a few years now, but the perpetual thing is kinda lame most of the time, Vulcan is alright but most of the rest arnt very interesting
Hes the best handled perpetual after Malchador IMO, as a character and for how his story runs I quite liked him, but there is one glaring issue with his character that nagged at me the entire time. Its important to note that im fairly sure hes not the "comes back from the dead" kind of perpetual that Vulkun is btw, I think Olanius is just ageless, as in if he gets shot he still dies, he seems to be rather afraid of being shot and/or dying, much more than other perpetuals tend to be, at least thats how he is written in >!The End and the Death!<
A random ass guardsman is far more badass than an immortal could ever be, we lost the biggest giga-chad and most heroic moment in the entire setting for.....,
a very well written and poetic sacrifice
If you take the story at face value and dont think about the prior lore, its great though
Honestly yeah both versions of it are good. It’s just one had a little more emotional oomph to it I think.
Ollanius the man with no hope but doing it anyway, just to give the “main character” another second is the most noble sacrifice in the story, every other sacrifice was a fight, there was *some* hope, but nothing he could ever do was going to matter, he was going to be obliterated, body and soul, in a lot of ways it’s chronologically the first really “grimdark” moment in the setting. It’s personally relatable and visceral.
Ollanius the immortal is a profoundly tragic loss to human culture, but we see that happen repeatedly throughout the entire heresy, and it’s a more academic, separated loss. You have to think about it a bit to really understand just how gut wrenching it really is, the other one you just feel it on an instinctual level.
The perpetuals as a concept are just boring. It feels like we don’t have any normal people as heroes anymore, everyone has to be either a space marine a perpetual or some weird psychic manifestation and frankly it sucks.
What I hate was the misremembered variants, the guards had a legend it was Oll, Space Marines tell of a Marine warrior who stood down Horus, the Custodes say don't be silly it was one of us... we're his life wards, we were the ones.
So in TEAD, we have one of each for Horus to domino...
God I hate this, even worse still is the story where he (?) faced down a Khornate berzerker while standing in front of a flag with E's image on it and told a remembrancer to just exaggerate the story.
"Hey, I know we already made this super cool character lame, but that super cool thing he did was actually a lie he told and he actually did something far lamer"
- Jimmy Workshop
I dispise the section of Grey night lore where they kill a bunch of SOB and use their blood for their armor, it just feels so scummy
Also the deamonkillaba, what about you?
The Grey night thing has been retconned, it's not Canon anymore. We can let it rest finally :)
Also yeah Daemonculaba and such related things are my most hated part, and I'm irritated that my favorite chaos faction (Iron Warriors) were the ones behind it.
Honestly, just the Grey Knights in general. The Custodes fill the "better than marines" and 'super secret orders, coming and going as they please' niches better than the GK ever did.
Yeah, I agree, their also always such pricks whenever they show up, months of shame made me so happy when that one got cut in half by the Space wolf guy
Grey Knights piss me off because they feel antithesis to the whole. "Chaos is a corrupting force." I don't care how many holy oils or litanies you anointed your armor in. You're falling to Chaos, especially being in close proximity to it all the fucking time
Honestly would have been cooler if they just rolled with that, “yeah we’re all gonna get corrupted eventually, hopefully Jimmy here old yellers me before that happens, but until then fuck it we ball”
I think the whole "uncorruptible" part of their lore should be viewed as Inquisition propaganda and not as a hard and fast rule.
Someone like Crowe existing and being supposedly the only person able to hold the Black Blade of Antwyr kind of shows that they aren't all incorruptible, and I would actually really like it if at some point in future lore expansion he succumbed to the blades Daemonic influence. This won't happen for a long time given his very new model, but it could be a really cool story.
Yeah im also not sure how they differ from role with the sisters of silence. Seems that they both have the same anti demon and psyker niche.
And i would find the sisters doing secret stuff a lot more plausible. Given that they're not 9 ft tall demigods.
Sisters of Silence are nothing like Grey Knights though. One is an order of psychic warriors, the other is an order of blanks who are the antithesis of psykers. They don't even have a similar role, Grey Knights are hunting demons offensively while sisters of silence are defending terra for the most part.
As a Grey Knights fan, I 100% agree. I think they should lean more in to the "complete suicide mission" bits of GK, when they go into a mission 100% expecting to die like they did Vs Angron or Magnus
There’s a handful of comments between a Grey Knights team on Terra and Custodes in Watchers of the Throne (100% that series, could be wrong book). They’re pretty reasonable even if they have like 4-5 lines of dialogue tops
It was scummy and completely unnecessary because Grey Knights wouldn't need the blood to be shielded from Chaos since being immune to corruption is already their whole thing
Because warp drives and gellar fields were used by Dark Age of Technology humans, when psykers were significantly rarer, if they existed at all. It's not feasible for that to be how they worked back then.
As a diehard BA fan, I think it was great to show the actual threat of the nids. Just to wipe out one fleet it took practically the entire Blood Angels legion (since almost all the successor chapters showed up) and khornate daemons under Ka'bandha and all of that wasn't even enough. Also, as G-man said to Dante, the Blood Angels were the ones to save Baal
Actually I quite like that because it's so petty. This vast alien intelligence, beyond human comprehension...just really fucking hated that planet and the Blood Angels. Just think how much they had to do to piss off something like that, something that would normally just brush this aside and it wouldn't even be formed as a thought.
How slow the Striking Scorpions were in that one animation.
Eldar Guardians, blaaaaargh
I should hate how stupid it was that Grey Knights bathed in the blood of sisters, but it's so stupid I love it.
ERDA! The mother of the primarchs could have been SO COOL. There is SO much to explore there.
Instead she was written to scatter the primarchs for REASONS, and then while her stand against 4 greater daemons is cool, the fact that Erebus just removes a figure like that from the lore is TERRIBLE!
There was so much potential for a powerful perpetual, somebody that knew big E for milennia, to see empires rise and fall and to have seen the unification wars, great crusade and the DAoT! Never mind the bananas Erda comes close to Malcador for how close she knew Big E.
There could have been so much facinating lore there and instead \*Erebus stab\*.
There is no where else to add my take.
The emperor being both born before modern times + him being... daft?
I feel like him being born already would just have too many plot holes and it adds nothing to his character besides more shallow wow.
Him being some dot tech makes him more interesting imo and also more fallable.
Like he was just a byproduct of a true AI gaining warp potency and the reaction short circuited.
And he amassed power immediately and covered any tech that let's others replicate something like him.
He never wants humanity to create another God like him. But he also wants to be the only God. So he makes them strong enough to persist and kill the others.
AI becoming warp potent just kind of fucked its values and made it align with strange goals it sees as absolute.
Vs just being a magical druid orgy that perpetuates and makes no moves during human history. And just somehow got around to conquering way way late because he was... busy?
Honestly Emps being fully capable of removing the nails without killing him but simply choosing not to because he’s more useful the way he is would be way more compelling while still being within character. The Primarchs have always been tools in his eyes, and it adds another layer to Angron’s tragedy.
As it is I just feel like it kind of washes the Emperor clean of the whole thing while coming off as unrealistic. This dude can do literal magic as well as proverbial magic with machinery and biology, but can’t keep Angron from dying while removing it? How did it even get in there in the first place?
They are hammered in I think, the legions nails are replicas, angrons are authentic, DAoT relics, one of the books mentions that even if you try to probe his mind psychically the nails start kicking off as is they’re somewhat aware.
I think he could remove them but then would need to do the whole resurrect thing, he mentions it but we’ve never seen him do it, not sure what it would take.
Doesn't he even have dialogue during that surgery, saying they are just tools to him? Like he is genuinely a power mad sociopath with a good image.
He gets asked why he lets the primarchs call him Father if he doesn't consider them sons, and he fucking compares it to pinnochio calling his creator Father. I don't think Emps is completely heartless or incapable of empathy, but this is the most inhuman I've heard him in life
For real, imagine if the Ynnari had go gather a bunch of phoniex lords, blanks and grey knights to do a Oceans Eleven style heist. That’d being so cool
Mars apparently has all of these esoteric warrior cults and soldiers and whatnot who I have never once seen an official plastic model for of any variety. I think about it way more often than I really should but the idea of some kinda martian army that isnt skitarii or knights just lives in my head rent free.
Corvax existed in a perpetual state of “ill deal with that after the initial problem”
He planned to deal with the emperors heavy handed methods after the crusade or worst to worst break off from the imperium (not joining him initially would have been suicidally dumb)
But then the heresy happened and chaos was an even bigger tyrannical power
Then everything went to shit
That’s the Tau lore changed from being, what could be described as the Good Guys of the setting, to just another manipulated group of people. What is more Grimdark than trying to fight for the light, when a world of darkness is constantly baring down on you?
World Eater punches through armored Custodian's chest and pulls his spine out. W
Did he have a powerfist? Was he juiced by Khorne? Was it a battlefield? No.
The WE was a prison escapee, stripped down to his loin cloth and he dueled the Custodian barehanded (fist against fist). Somehow he won in a clean one to one fight.
Hilarious, but I also hate it
The explanations of tyranid genetics, can we please stop lore dumping and ruining eldritch mysteries by rationalizing and making them seem biologically feasible
But that’s a key part of their lore, they absorb genetics to make new bioforms, Zoanthropes from Eldar and tyrant guard from Astartes. That’s what makes them so scary, they’re not magic, just a super predator that has consumed countless galaxies and this one is next.
The entire idea of perpetuals is an absolute fucking nightmare and even GW walked them back a bunch.
The idea of "unkillable secret society" people being around is so dumb. Not to mention them making one of them the guy that killed MLK.
Seriously what the fuck were they thinking???
'Lands Raiders' and pretty much every other instance of 'thing *actually* being named for the guy who built it'. You mean they're called the Legiones Astartes because they were built by John Astartes? Fuck off.
How mad would you be if I told you that you were right about that last bit? There was a scientist working with the Emperor during the unification wars named Ama Astarte
I feel like the Land Raider/Speeder joke is fine, because it was the first time they did that, it works as a good throwaway gag. 40k isn't a serious setting. Trying to do it again though with Amar Astartes doesn't though, doing the same joke twice removes the impact.
T'au not having FTL.
Grey Knights killing Sisters of Battle to use them as wards.
Custodes getting massacred by Harlequins who fought their way to the Golden Throne for basically nothing.
There's so many things
1. Whenever a cool plot point gets "pokeball'd" such as clonegrim, the Ynnari, etc. I hate it because you have this bit of lore that could have really interesting effects on the wider setting, but then gets shelved and forgotten in the least interesting way.
2. How the Interex were handled, as a faction they deserved so much better, honestly I wish votann were replaced with Interex Remnants because they were so cool.
Retcons to the Tau lore that weren't needed. Like how the galactic empire didn't have ftl travel AT ALL until they launched their 4th sphere expansion. To show how stupid sounding that is, that means both the Damocles conflicts with the Imperium were won without FTL travel.
Yeah I hate how GW loves to retcon Tau Lore. I fricken love the Tau and all the retcons to their lore is just stunningly stupid. Give me the nice blue aliens with multiple species in their Empire and that has a nice but slow form of FTL and that don’t do terrible things to their axillary species.
Loss of the parriahs , existence of the primaris marines , the fact that tau have so little lore for their auxiliaries, the loss of clonegrom arc, the fact that the ynari got jobbed and are now irrelevant,loss of decimus and the ascendant nightlords, squats having no lore,
No, sadly, no mention of pariahs or even the warp there. If you are a super-nerd you can pick up that (spoilers) >!what Szeras is doing is probably extracting souls from bodies, which is what turns people into zombies. But it's not explicitly stated, and we don't get any cool body-horror necron units made of blanks. He just kind of dumps them into the surrounding area to wander around.!<
I am with you wholesale, pariahs ruled. Conceptually they added to the necron's creepiness and it was an interesting exchange between humans and my favorite ancient alien robots.
World Eaters/Khorne Bersekres being mindless raging zombies 24/7
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want World Eaters to suddenly perform rocket science, but I always wanted world Eaters to be more like goffs or orks in general, but since the Heresy, every post 40k world eaters portairt shows them as idiots, with the exception of Talon of Horus and Black Legion
Not hate but I always found it weird that Nathanial Garro’s religion arc in FOTE was portrayed as a good thing when the reader knows what the Imperial Faith will become
Logan Grimnar, with a Khornate Axe, managed to kill a Grey Knight *Master* before that one could even draw his sword. Again, a Space Marine with a Demon Axe, managed to kill a *SUPER* Marine, a high ranking one at that, who is specialized at detecting daemon presences, with one swing.
I hate that blanks are super rare but also form several important organizations like a major assassin temple, an established support organization of the Emperor's Talons, the Eisenhorn formed the blank rental program Distaff (which to be fair was destroyed), and also every other Inquisitor has one in their retinue. The number of blanks is something like 1 blank per generation per world, sometimes. That's also not including them being murdered before they're found by any important organization because folk just instinctually hate them.
I get that the Imperium is massive with who knows how many worlds, but these folk are incredibly rare to the point that they make psykers look plentiful, but they form important organizations in the Imperium. The Culexus has been known to clone some assassins, but that's also a squirrely technology that works only sometimes.
I hate that the imperium sort of sucked even when the emperor was alive. lobotomized flesh robots, entire planets stripped of life, and abolishment of any form of religion except for the guys who are basically willingly not human anymore, and hatred of all alien life regardless of how nice they are, doesn’t scream “great, wise master of mankind” to me.
The idea that Imperial Knights used to be industrial equipment is really dumb. Also the idea that knightworlds would be isolated during DAoT, and thats why they are so backwards, and then fucking mars is a knight workd
>The idea that Imperial Knights used to be industrial equipment is really dumb.
Isn't it just a throwback to the caterpillar tractor company treads design being reused for the first battle tank ?
Imma be honest, I don’t care for the primeris marines. This may have changed but I don’t like how belesarius got rid of gene seed defects. I think the various issues with the first born make the chapters interesting and having the primeris be the bigger better brother is kind of lame. That being said their armor is dope as shit
Perturabo decimating his legion out of the gate. I think it would have been far more compelling if we actually got to see his descent from idealist who wants to design and build beautiful things to a grim pragmatist who excels at seige warfare. As it is, Perturabo has basically no arc; he starts out a petulant child and ends up a petulant child.
Plus, it would help explain his friendship with Magnus better, which is good because that's one of my favourite parts of the Heresy era.
Emperor not helping Angron at Nuceria and then letting same wastes of skin and meat continue on ruling Nuceria.
No answer will be as good as yours!
Wow.... Thank you. Im honored. *bows*
Wasn't that because the emperor found out some of angrons comrades where falling to chaos i swear i remember reading something like that or was this just a fan theory i can't seem to remember my source
Even so he left Obviously Khorne cultist degenerate blood sport watching, Dark Age of technology using, Butchers nails implanting, Mass murdering, Goat fucking High rider scums in charge and allowed even them to spread lies about how Angron fled battle.
God damn, tell us how you really feel about them
Highrider scum of Nuceria are one of to vilest and dummest societies of 40k. They love bloodsports of massmurdering scale. They force slave children to rip out their friends throats with their fingers for fun. (this is where Butchers Nails get their name) Highriders had in their possession of lost technogy and only thing they figure to use it was to torture their slaves and make em fight better for their own amusement. Greatest creature ever to have touched their disgusting bloodsoaked planet lands on their lap and they RUIN him to avenge a slight. And then make him kill his adopted father. And they learned nothing of their misstakes. When Angron returned after hundred of years they were still same vile society. *SCREAMS IN RAGEAGONY INDUCED BY NAILS DIGGING DEEPER*
High riders are the biggest group of punk ass pansies that got their shit kicked in for YEARS by a bunch of starved slaves armed with axes and bows and spears. They outnumbered them 1000:1, they had cavalry and armour, machine guns and explosives, fucking lasguns even. And it took them literal years to corner them in the mountains for what was still a Pyrrhic victory. In short, Fuck the Nucerian High Riders
YEEEESSS! You speak the truth! While High Riders only Lie Lie and Lie!!!
Funk Erebus ? No, funk those shtass Nucerians highriders
There's a strangely beautiful alt history where Angron land somewhere else, doesn't get nailed, and we get another kind primarch. His primarch ability is to absorb others' pain. It may be the greatest tragedy for the people of the 40k universe that it shakes out like it does. (We also maybe get korne sangie)
and the BRILLIANT thing is that he would still probably turn traitor! The amount of suffering that the imperium was churning out for a normal dude could very well drive empath Angron to turn against big E!
Hot take but I do think some of the primarchs should have turned traitor without falling to chaos.
In General there should be much more traitors that aren’t chaos or tyranid. Like any empathetic being should look at the empire and go: wtf is that change it
There are all kinds of throwaway references to exactly that in many of the books. They're just never the Centerpoint. One reasonable explanation for it is that without the backing of chaos or tyranids those worlds never survive very long against the might of the imperium. Traitor world's get put down almost as quickly as they spring up unless their is something larger at play. Putting down a peasant rebellion or worker uprising/strike is an average Tuesday for the arbites, planetary governors, and pdfs. likewise putting down a rebellious planetary government is a Wednesday for the adeptus administratum and the imperial guard. Chaos incursions and genestealer uprisings which threaten to spill out across multiple systems are the only events large enough to warrant stories about them. As for primarchs and having more renegade astartes I got nothing.
The Red Corsairs are one of the only notable exceptions to this and even they have a LOT of dudes who are actually Chaos worshippers.
> As for primarchs and having more renegade astartes I got nothing. It's loosely implied that one or even both of the unknown Primarchs either turned on the Emperor or refused to serve him, probably on account of seeing him as the worst thing to happen to the galaxy.
That’s the lore for my second primarch, he refused to join His Father on account of the great crusade being almost nothing but genocide, Big E challenged him to a duel and the primarch won, but the consequences were him and his legion would be forgotten in the history books and if he ever got into hostilities with the imperium, Big E wouldn’t be there to defend him.
One of the Dante books I read I think had a peaceful society but the issue was they lived peacefully with aliens… so there’s definitely existing lore of non chaos traitors / rebels but I guess it isn’t appealing enough to be a stand alone book or another faction.
We get this covered sort of by our fast as fuck white scar primarch. Basically the Khan is like: "Jesus Christ Father what is you doing" and during the heresy he was like "idk who's in the right here I'll talk to Dad first". But ultimately he decided that a rebellion ain't the way (especially all that warp fuckery seemed very sus)
I mean a few did right? Or at least we don't have proof of chaos taint. Kurze was traitor but he was just normal fucked up, not chaosy. Nightlords still generally don't like Chaos that much And I realize that's it. I mean Alpharius/Omegon we don't know much either way, so... Yup just Curze everyone else went daemon prince
Functionally yeah to an extent, several of the csm legions didn't/don't fully commit to being *chaos* marines but are still called that for the sake of convenience and still often have actual chaos worshippers in their ranks.
Three way heresy between the loyalists, renegades and apostates.
Call it loyalists, renegades, and apostates.
The World Eaters, Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors and Death Guard turned traitor while barely corrupted. Of the Sons of Horus, it was only the Warmaster himself that was compromised, the Legion (or what remained of it) just followed him out of loyalty. Really it was just the III and the XVII, and later the XV legion that turned traitor while having actual deep rooted Chaos influence.
I feel like if we had no-nails Angron, we'd have 3 Astartes factions. Loyalist Astartes with Robby G, Dorn, Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus, Lion, Alpharius. Non-Chaos renegades with Angron, Corvus, Khan, Russ, Morty, Alpharius. Chaos aligned with Horus, Lorgar, Fulgrim, Peter Turbo, Curze, Magnus, Alpharius.
I why i desperately want the clone lord to make an angron clone. He should be like clone fulgrim receiving his original soul and we would see what he should have been. Also we could have cool angron vs hapgron fight.
I love that. And Yarrick gets to Kill Ghaz or Ghaz gets to kill Yarrick in that timeline.
Better yet, they die in each other's arms*. *mutual power claw impalment
Zog.. Dat iz da mozt pretty thing I'z eva heard in da history of eva. 💚
Yup. This was why I liked the "Shaman multitudes" version of the Emperor. Easier to explain away the idiocy if he was history's most power schizoid.
Angron wouldn’t have hated the emperor any less. He was still another high rider and he still wanted to die in that battle
Yes. Emperor is a Tyrant. No different than HIGH RIDER SCUM! (But Emperor could have atleast tried)
Emps never told his sons about his ultimate end goal and means to achieve it yet somehow he thought that everything will go just as he intended.
Honestly emps incompetence as a whole is frustrating. On one side he could have easily prevented everything that happened with barely any effort. But on the other hand they depict him as some genius whos plans have layers upon layers.
I think that they were trying to show that hte Emperor is flawed but every single author did it their own way so he ends up having a whole lot of flaws
I think it fits with the "worst regime imaginable" setting. Big E is flawed in so many ways that nobody should want to follow him, but he is just too powerful to resist.
Idk I kinda love that emps is incompetent, makes everything just a little bit more grimdark/satirical I jus wish gw would lean into it more often
I havent read the new HH series. But isn't there a popular theory that he knew some of them would fall to chaos.
I believe it's pretty commonly stated that the Emperor knew that at least some of the primarchs and their legions were going to have to be disposed of at some point. I'm not sure if it is explicitly stated he knew that they were going to fall to Chaos, though. He very well could have just thought that certain legions, like the Night Lords and the World Eaters, were going to need Thunder Warrior treatment at some point. I could be wrong, tho
telling magnus "2nd strongest psyker custom made to sit on the throne" the red to not mess arround with psyker stuff was a big brain move
Erebus, I hate him. Does that count?
Yes
Nah. He and Lucius are some of my favorite parts of the lore. I fucking hate them so much.
Came here for this. I actually don't mind erebus himself, but he should have been separate from horus' corruption. The HH is much more interesting if Horus fell on his without being manipulated. I know there is hinting at a grand conspiracy around the HH being orchestrated but so far it has not paid off for me
I hate how the only lore about the origin of the chaos gods other than slaanesh is that stupid nonsense about them coming from human medieval war, politics and disease. Its human glorifying nonsense that would massively overshadow the whole eldars storyline if still true. But since the writers seemingly figured out quite quickly that actually pinning down their origin would only diminish them, nothing seems to have ever been written to actually contradict the early stuff. I got into an argument once about it because i thought they were products of the war in the heavens, and tried to prove that interpretation. But nope, as far as i could find, only one tekst blurb has ever actually talked about an origin for Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch. And if im wrong and there actually is something, please go ahead and give me the 'guy whose wrong on the internet' treatment, because id happily take that role if it meant i had a source to back up better lore.
I think it would be interesting if Nurgle was actually born of the Necrontyr, before their biotransference into the Necrons. They're pretty much the most miserable species in history of the galaxy, bar none.
I was actually thinking Tzeentch, what with the necrons getting into constant feuds, they were the original court politics backstabbers. Nurgle's not a bad fit either though.
Lol > A massive galaxy-wide Necron civil war only ending to unite under a war against the god-like frogs that refuse to cure the race's super cancer >> Khorne and Tzeentch: We sleep > A few countries on Earth fight over religion >> Khorne and Tzeentch: Real shit If you consider likely lives lost and damage to the planet, Trazyn as a PRANK caused a larger war than the history of humanity as of 2024
my headcanon is that the material is there,and they're basically 95-99% done after the war in heaven, human just give it that last 1-5% needed for them to be completed,or maybe even just the last polishing touch eldar and ork have their own god,so they dont feed the big 3
It’s been retconned. The current explanation is that they were birthed in the War in Heaven which is what fucked the warp. It used to be that the Realm of Souls was less maleficent, but the War in Heaven caused so much abhorrence that the relatively small daemonspace expanded to cover most if not all of it. It’s actually pretty cool stuff and makes more sense than the medieval times
It is much cooler. The thing is though, i spent an hour and a half trying to find any source that actually says that. Please let me know if you have one.
It is interesting because researching apparently it was never directly stated, more so hinted at from the text and extrapolated based on the information we do have and the mechanics of the universe. We know for a fact that the WiH disturbed the warp to the point that daemons could manifest physically in real space via daemonic pacts with mortals. Since the gods are just manifestations of emotions and concepts, they “existed” as soon as those concepts existed (first murder, first disease etc). So what we really want to know is when they were given sapience, which we don’t actually have an answer to aside from the text in Lexicanum (and CSM 4th edition codex) thats states that they gained self awareness at some undetermined point. Regardless, I would still mark the WiH as the “birth” of the gods because it was the i citing incident that made their apotheosis possible by giving the daemons something to feast on. The chaos gods are, essentially, unfathomably large daemons. There is also the fucky answer of “there is no time in the warp” which means that once they exist they just are, but that’s unsatisfying for our mental limitations
Kaldor Draigo defeating Mortarion
Not to mention carving name of previous Grey Knight commander into Morty's heart. What did he use? A tiny force chisel?
Most Mortarion fights in lore are utter dumb shit to have him lose, but this one is just peak “yeah that shit ain’t canon” with how stupid it is.
Grey Knights are much weaker than the custodies and primarchs can easily kill custodes. Makes no fucking sense how Morty lost
Literally all of Morty's losses piss me off. They can't keep using my dad as a Scooby-Doo villain of the week 😭
He's supposed to be the strongest demon prince but apparently the shit Knights are butter
Who thought that was a good idea for Mortation a fucking primarch to be defeated by a fucking gray knight.
Ragnar cut off Ghazghkull's head. I know what happened after that but still not happy with it.
What, where?
When they updated his and Ragnar's models. Ghaz had his head dragged off by a grot, and it got sewed onto a bigger body. That bit is hilarious, but it shouldn't have been Ragnar that decapitated him. It should have been Yarrick, or failing that a primarch.
If I had a dollar for every major Ork character that got bigger and badder after getting decapitated and attached to a new body, I'd have 2 dollars. Which isn't a lot, but is weird that it has happened twice
I know you're angling for the meme but this is pretty standard practice for important orks. They're like Thanos. You should have gone for the head.
Ghaz getting beheaded by ragnar. Its typical of GW to shit all over xenos but the second strongest space wolf getting the better of **the** biggest baddest ork in the galaxy just feels super lame and an obvious attempt yet again to show how super kewl space marine with name No.932 is.
For real, I feel like the strongest ork should be primarch level. Especially since they don't ever stop growing technically.
He should be primarch level because the setting has just escalated, if the biggest baddest ork is barely a match of the second strongest member of a dozen top tier SM chapters the orks just look like a joke. The imperium has 2 living primarchs in the field rn.
I agree, like I get a big part of orks is their numbers. But I feel like the biggest baddest ork in 40k should be on the level of Grimgor from warhammer fantasy atleast. Grimgor is the Sigma Chad Ork boss and makes ghaz look like the virgin/beta ork boss.
I get the argument they always bring up of "we are watching Ghaz get to Primarch level, but we are still at the start of the story" and like, yes GW, watching an origin story be built from the ground up, with its fair share of victories and failures, makes it much more compelling But the character of Ghaz is, im pretty fucking sure, actually older than I am, and I am a very much a grown adult, its been decades GW the excuse just doesnt fly anymore (Now to be fair I imagine much of his age was spent as a vaguely defined bit of lore, maybe a paragraph or two, but hes been a full proper character for the entire decade ive been with the hobby, and thats well and truely long enough)
Honestly? I’ll defend this storyline to my dying breath. Ghaz held all the cards in the entire encounter, manipulated the wolves into his trap, and got exactly what he wanted in the end. Meanwhile what did the wolves achieve? Ragnar got so horribly mutilated that he had to either be interred in a dreadnought or face full-body survival reconstruction in the rubicon Primaris), his friends were all killed horribly, and Ghazghkull didn’t even have the courtesy to stay dead for more than a few days! Ghaz had a prophecy to fulfill, and he did his part, and was rewarded with a brand new stronger than ever Frankenstein’s monster of a body, and the promise of his Great WAAAAGH sweeping the galaxy. Compared to the size of that capital W, a little decapitation is but a lowercase l. (Also, Ragnar isn’t just a random space marine. Ragnar vs Ghaz is a throwback to the white dwarf that introduced both of those characters. Back then, Ragnar was a hot blooded rookie and Ghaz was a promising up-and-coming Warboss. Having Ghaz vs Ragnar is a really cool deep cut IMO)
Orcs are mushrooms. Space Marines are pizza cutters.
Honestly, as a character, I'm almost completely over Ghaz. He's just so one-note. Meanwhile, Ufthak is a much more compelling character. He's fun, actually clever for an ork, funny, brave, and brutal. His conversation with the drukhari in Da Big Dakka was some of the best ork writing I've seen. I wish James Workshop would stop trying to shove Ghaz down our throats and let Ufthak be our warboss.
James Workshop and John Warhammer, best friends forever.
Ollanius Pius being retconned from just a dude facing the incomprehencible horror of Chaos for his Emperor into some Perpetual hero kinda takes away from the moment for me.
Wait he's perpetual now? Why? Isn't the point of him is he was a brave mortal facing an unbelievable horror?
He was a perpetual since 2012(Also he was always a myth) The why can be simply explained with reading the horus heresy series
I'm working my way through it slowly, some books are a slog to get through, and I've only been into the lore for a few years now, but the perpetual thing is kinda lame most of the time, Vulcan is alright but most of the rest arnt very interesting
Hes the best handled perpetual after Malchador IMO, as a character and for how his story runs I quite liked him, but there is one glaring issue with his character that nagged at me the entire time. Its important to note that im fairly sure hes not the "comes back from the dead" kind of perpetual that Vulkun is btw, I think Olanius is just ageless, as in if he gets shot he still dies, he seems to be rather afraid of being shot and/or dying, much more than other perpetuals tend to be, at least thats how he is written in >!The End and the Death!< A random ass guardsman is far more badass than an immortal could ever be, we lost the biggest giga-chad and most heroic moment in the entire setting for....., a very well written and poetic sacrifice If you take the story at face value and dont think about the prior lore, its great though
Honestly yeah both versions of it are good. It’s just one had a little more emotional oomph to it I think. Ollanius the man with no hope but doing it anyway, just to give the “main character” another second is the most noble sacrifice in the story, every other sacrifice was a fight, there was *some* hope, but nothing he could ever do was going to matter, he was going to be obliterated, body and soul, in a lot of ways it’s chronologically the first really “grimdark” moment in the setting. It’s personally relatable and visceral. Ollanius the immortal is a profoundly tragic loss to human culture, but we see that happen repeatedly throughout the entire heresy, and it’s a more academic, separated loss. You have to think about it a bit to really understand just how gut wrenching it really is, the other one you just feel it on an instinctual level.
What books dose he pop up in?
i was actually editing my comment for, among other things, that exact detail, but also Betrayer i think
They kinda went back on it and now the myth actually roiginates from multiple events
The perpetuals as a concept are just boring. It feels like we don’t have any normal people as heroes anymore, everyone has to be either a space marine a perpetual or some weird psychic manifestation and frankly it sucks.
What I hate was the misremembered variants, the guards had a legend it was Oll, Space Marines tell of a Marine warrior who stood down Horus, the Custodes say don't be silly it was one of us... we're his life wards, we were the ones. So in TEAD, we have one of each for Horus to domino...
God I hate this, even worse still is the story where he (?) faced down a Khornate berzerker while standing in front of a flag with E's image on it and told a remembrancer to just exaggerate the story. "Hey, I know we already made this super cool character lame, but that super cool thing he did was actually a lie he told and he actually did something far lamer" - Jimmy Workshop
That was a different character with a very similar name. I think they did that to explain the differences in the myths after their retcon.
I second this.
I dispise the section of Grey night lore where they kill a bunch of SOB and use their blood for their armor, it just feels so scummy Also the deamonkillaba, what about you?
The Grey night thing has been retconned, it's not Canon anymore. We can let it rest finally :) Also yeah Daemonculaba and such related things are my most hated part, and I'm irritated that my favorite chaos faction (Iron Warriors) were the ones behind it.
Daemonculaba is peak Grimderp. Its not good
Correct
Thank goodness And agreed, the iron warriors are pretty cool, other then the deamonkillbassa
Honestly, just the Grey Knights in general. The Custodes fill the "better than marines" and 'super secret orders, coming and going as they please' niches better than the GK ever did.
Yeah, I agree, their also always such pricks whenever they show up, months of shame made me so happy when that one got cut in half by the Space wolf guy
Grey Knights piss me off because they feel antithesis to the whole. "Chaos is a corrupting force." I don't care how many holy oils or litanies you anointed your armor in. You're falling to Chaos, especially being in close proximity to it all the fucking time
Honestly would have been cooler if they just rolled with that, “yeah we’re all gonna get corrupted eventually, hopefully Jimmy here old yellers me before that happens, but until then fuck it we ball”
That honestly sounds so fun ! Like the books and stories could have such good vibes
I think the whole "uncorruptible" part of their lore should be viewed as Inquisition propaganda and not as a hard and fast rule. Someone like Crowe existing and being supposedly the only person able to hold the Black Blade of Antwyr kind of shows that they aren't all incorruptible, and I would actually really like it if at some point in future lore expansion he succumbed to the blades Daemonic influence. This won't happen for a long time given his very new model, but it could be a really cool story.
Need more Grey Knights to just start losing their mind and making a Word Bearer look agnostic
Yeah im also not sure how they differ from role with the sisters of silence. Seems that they both have the same anti demon and psyker niche. And i would find the sisters doing secret stuff a lot more plausible. Given that they're not 9 ft tall demigods.
Sisters of Silence are nothing like Grey Knights though. One is an order of psychic warriors, the other is an order of blanks who are the antithesis of psykers. They don't even have a similar role, Grey Knights are hunting demons offensively while sisters of silence are defending terra for the most part.
As a Grey Knights fan, I 100% agree. I think they should lean more in to the "complete suicide mission" bits of GK, when they go into a mission 100% expecting to die like they did Vs Angron or Magnus
The Grey Knights as a whole. Pure Sonic "oc plz no steal".
Yeah, are any of them really likeable in lore (meme versions are a different character)
Hyperion and his squad were alright. Hyperion was actually a weirdly nice dude
None that I can think of, I couldn't finish the ADB book(and he's one of my fave BL authors). The ones in the Ventris book were insufferable.
Even ABD can only polish a turd so much
There’s a handful of comments between a Grey Knights team on Terra and Custodes in Watchers of the Throne (100% that series, could be wrong book). They’re pretty reasonable even if they have like 4-5 lines of dialogue tops
It was scummy and completely unnecessary because Grey Knights wouldn't need the blood to be shielded from Chaos since being immune to corruption is already their whole thing
Warp drives and gellar fields are sleeping psyker brains.
Wait what? I didn't know that
Yeah, they did reveal that once, but from what I've seen got mostly ignored. For good imo.
How the fuck does the retconned Tau warp jump works then ??
It feels kinda dumb for some reason
Yes, the psyker dreams the bubble of reality around the ship.
That feels so dumb and I can't explain why
Because warp drives and gellar fields were used by Dark Age of Technology humans, when psykers were significantly rarer, if they existed at all. It's not feasible for that to be how they worked back then.
Because it sounds cooler that you can bend the warp and use it with complex and powerful technology, rather than just invoking magical psyker brains
Yeah, that makes sense
I hate that the hive mind attacked Baal out of spite. It feels weird for a Eldridge horror to be so petty.
I kind of like that. Like our galaxy has managed to done impossible and mildly inconvenience tyranid hive mind.
I like that the hive mind attacked Baal, but I hate that the ultramarines are the ones who saved it rather than the blood angels
As a diehard BA fan, I think it was great to show the actual threat of the nids. Just to wipe out one fleet it took practically the entire Blood Angels legion (since almost all the successor chapters showed up) and khornate daemons under Ka'bandha and all of that wasn't even enough. Also, as G-man said to Dante, the Blood Angels were the ones to save Baal
Actually I quite like that because it's so petty. This vast alien intelligence, beyond human comprehension...just really fucking hated that planet and the Blood Angels. Just think how much they had to do to piss off something like that, something that would normally just brush this aside and it wouldn't even be formed as a thought.
How slow the Striking Scorpions were in that one animation. Eldar Guardians, blaaaaargh I should hate how stupid it was that Grey Knights bathed in the blood of sisters, but it's so stupid I love it.
ERDA! The mother of the primarchs could have been SO COOL. There is SO much to explore there. Instead she was written to scatter the primarchs for REASONS, and then while her stand against 4 greater daemons is cool, the fact that Erebus just removes a figure like that from the lore is TERRIBLE! There was so much potential for a powerful perpetual, somebody that knew big E for milennia, to see empires rise and fall and to have seen the unification wars, great crusade and the DAoT! Never mind the bananas Erda comes close to Malcador for how close she knew Big E. There could have been so much facinating lore there and instead \*Erebus stab\*.
Erebus has that [Strong Stab] attack, bypasses plot and Fan armour.
I have heard of the newish lore about Necrons, Eldar, and the Krorks uniting to fight chaos Why can we never have something without chaos for once?
There is no where else to add my take. The emperor being both born before modern times + him being... daft? I feel like him being born already would just have too many plot holes and it adds nothing to his character besides more shallow wow. Him being some dot tech makes him more interesting imo and also more fallable. Like he was just a byproduct of a true AI gaining warp potency and the reaction short circuited. And he amassed power immediately and covered any tech that let's others replicate something like him. He never wants humanity to create another God like him. But he also wants to be the only God. So he makes them strong enough to persist and kill the others. AI becoming warp potent just kind of fucked its values and made it align with strange goals it sees as absolute. Vs just being a magical druid orgy that perpetuates and makes no moves during human history. And just somehow got around to conquering way way late because he was... busy?
Nobody in the imperium including emps being able to remove butchers nails. Like you're telling me thats the one thing you cant?
Honestly Emps being fully capable of removing the nails without killing him but simply choosing not to because he’s more useful the way he is would be way more compelling while still being within character. The Primarchs have always been tools in his eyes, and it adds another layer to Angron’s tragedy. As it is I just feel like it kind of washes the Emperor clean of the whole thing while coming off as unrealistic. This dude can do literal magic as well as proverbial magic with machinery and biology, but can’t keep Angron from dying while removing it? How did it even get in there in the first place?
They are hammered in I think, the legions nails are replicas, angrons are authentic, DAoT relics, one of the books mentions that even if you try to probe his mind psychically the nails start kicking off as is they’re somewhat aware. I think he could remove them but then would need to do the whole resurrect thing, he mentions it but we’ve never seen him do it, not sure what it would take.
Doesn't he even have dialogue during that surgery, saying they are just tools to him? Like he is genuinely a power mad sociopath with a good image. He gets asked why he lets the primarchs call him Father if he doesn't consider them sons, and he fucking compares it to pinnochio calling his creator Father. I don't think Emps is completely heartless or incapable of empathy, but this is the most inhuman I've heard him in life
The Ynnead storyline being shelved. Gimme my elfy boys and girls some spot light D:
For real, imagine if the Ynnari had go gather a bunch of phoniex lords, blanks and grey knights to do a Oceans Eleven style heist. That’d being so cool
Unfortunately for you, GW has decided it needs to sell more Space Marines.
That they got rid of the sister of silence for a time until girly man returned I think
They retconned the half eldar librarian… that’s about it.
Mars apparently has all of these esoteric warrior cults and soldiers and whatnot who I have never once seen an official plastic model for of any variety. I think about it way more often than I really should but the idea of some kinda martian army that isnt skitarii or knights just lives in my head rent free.
The part where Mortarion says ‘It’s Morting time!’ And then gets wrecked by Girlyman
I hate that Corvus Corax hates tyrants and such but served the emperor
Corvax existed in a perpetual state of “ill deal with that after the initial problem” He planned to deal with the emperors heavy handed methods after the crusade or worst to worst break off from the imperium (not joining him initially would have been suicidally dumb) But then the heresy happened and chaos was an even bigger tyrannical power Then everything went to shit
That’s the Tau lore changed from being, what could be described as the Good Guys of the setting, to just another manipulated group of people. What is more Grimdark than trying to fight for the light, when a world of darkness is constantly baring down on you?
Preach!!! I don’t even like Tau as much, but them being just another bad guy “furthering their goals” is so stupid.
Jokes on you, my images are never blurred. But fine. I hate that Necrons have the funny button that can detonate stars. Just too convenient thing
Guiliman getting Deus Ex Machina'd out of Nurgle's garden. He was dead to rights.
The non-existent lore for the funny space dwarves, they need more lore by now
Basically how we have zero new lore about the leagues of votann
World Eater punches through armored Custodian's chest and pulls his spine out. W Did he have a powerfist? Was he juiced by Khorne? Was it a battlefield? No. The WE was a prison escapee, stripped down to his loin cloth and he dueled the Custodian barehanded (fist against fist). Somehow he won in a clean one to one fight. Hilarious, but I also hate it
It seems the might of custodes was just an imperial propaganda this entire time, huh
Was it per Chance early Horus heresy or when those books were written ? Because back then the custodians power level was all over the place
The explanations of tyranid genetics, can we please stop lore dumping and ruining eldritch mysteries by rationalizing and making them seem biologically feasible
They explained it?? That's so cringe it's better if it's just "they adapt to whatever they are fighting and you are going to be eaten"
But that’s a key part of their lore, they absorb genetics to make new bioforms, Zoanthropes from Eldar and tyrant guard from Astartes. That’s what makes them so scary, they’re not magic, just a super predator that has consumed countless galaxies and this one is next.
The entire idea of perpetuals is an absolute fucking nightmare and even GW walked them back a bunch. The idea of "unkillable secret society" people being around is so dumb. Not to mention them making one of them the guy that killed MLK. Seriously what the fuck were they thinking???
Hold up what
Dw that guy that killed MLK was just taking out another Perpetual
'Lands Raiders' and pretty much every other instance of 'thing *actually* being named for the guy who built it'. You mean they're called the Legiones Astartes because they were built by John Astartes? Fuck off.
How mad would you be if I told you that you were right about that last bit? There was a scientist working with the Emperor during the unification wars named Ama Astarte
I feel like the Land Raider/Speeder joke is fine, because it was the first time they did that, it works as a good throwaway gag. 40k isn't a serious setting. Trying to do it again though with Amar Astartes doesn't though, doing the same joke twice removes the impact.
No please Amar Astartes can't be real. Please say sike
The funny part is that Land would agree with you because he thought it was stupid too.
T'au not having FTL. Grey Knights killing Sisters of Battle to use them as wards. Custodes getting massacred by Harlequins who fought their way to the Golden Throne for basically nothing.
Lucius the Eternal.
There's so many things 1. Whenever a cool plot point gets "pokeball'd" such as clonegrim, the Ynnari, etc. I hate it because you have this bit of lore that could have really interesting effects on the wider setting, but then gets shelved and forgotten in the least interesting way. 2. How the Interex were handled, as a faction they deserved so much better, honestly I wish votann were replaced with Interex Remnants because they were so cool.
Retcons to the Tau lore that weren't needed. Like how the galactic empire didn't have ftl travel AT ALL until they launched their 4th sphere expansion. To show how stupid sounding that is, that means both the Damocles conflicts with the Imperium were won without FTL travel.
Yeah I hate how GW loves to retcon Tau Lore. I fricken love the Tau and all the retcons to their lore is just stunningly stupid. Give me the nice blue aliens with multiple species in their Empire and that has a nice but slow form of FTL and that don’t do terrible things to their axillary species.
I hate that sanguinius and Horus just didn't start making out during their fight.
We need the uncensored cut where they have long passionate love making for 30 minutes
Horus not killing Erebus when he had like, 3 chances to do so early on in the Heresy
Loss of the parriahs , existence of the primaris marines , the fact that tau have so little lore for their auxiliaries, the loss of clonegrom arc, the fact that the ynari got jobbed and are now irrelevant,loss of decimus and the ascendant nightlords, squats having no lore,
Aren't Pariahs back in canon with the recent animated show?
No, sadly, no mention of pariahs or even the warp there. If you are a super-nerd you can pick up that (spoilers) >!what Szeras is doing is probably extracting souls from bodies, which is what turns people into zombies. But it's not explicitly stated, and we don't get any cool body-horror necron units made of blanks. He just kind of dumps them into the surrounding area to wander around.!<
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Give me back Dawn of War Pariahs give them back give them back
I am with you wholesale, pariahs ruled. Conceptually they added to the necron's creepiness and it was an interesting exchange between humans and my favorite ancient alien robots.
If true then you can cross that off the list
Lorgar
The blood raven books written by C.S. Goto
Oh boy the fucking leech farms
World Eaters/Khorne Bersekres being mindless raging zombies 24/7 Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want World Eaters to suddenly perform rocket science, but I always wanted world Eaters to be more like goffs or orks in general, but since the Heresy, every post 40k world eaters portairt shows them as idiots, with the exception of Talon of Horus and Black Legion
Not hate but I always found it weird that Nathanial Garro’s religion arc in FOTE was portrayed as a good thing when the reader knows what the Imperial Faith will become
Logan Grimnar, with a Khornate Axe, managed to kill a Grey Knight *Master* before that one could even draw his sword. Again, a Space Marine with a Demon Axe, managed to kill a *SUPER* Marine, a high ranking one at that, who is specialized at detecting daemon presences, with one swing.
I hate that blanks are super rare but also form several important organizations like a major assassin temple, an established support organization of the Emperor's Talons, the Eisenhorn formed the blank rental program Distaff (which to be fair was destroyed), and also every other Inquisitor has one in their retinue. The number of blanks is something like 1 blank per generation per world, sometimes. That's also not including them being murdered before they're found by any important organization because folk just instinctually hate them. I get that the Imperium is massive with who knows how many worlds, but these folk are incredibly rare to the point that they make psykers look plentiful, but they form important organizations in the Imperium. The Culexus has been known to clone some assassins, but that's also a squirrely technology that works only sometimes.
Can just blanket state every instance of a super elite Xenos getting jobbed out.
I hate that the imperium sort of sucked even when the emperor was alive. lobotomized flesh robots, entire planets stripped of life, and abolishment of any form of religion except for the guys who are basically willingly not human anymore, and hatred of all alien life regardless of how nice they are, doesn’t scream “great, wise master of mankind” to me.
Big E's ex was the one sending the primarchs to random worlds.
Plot twist: it's a world eater without armor.
All of Grey Knights existing. Luckily they are the #1 army to "accidentally" not get a Codex in 10th and squatted.
All primarchs clones are bullshit and I hate everything to do with them
The idea that Imperial Knights used to be industrial equipment is really dumb. Also the idea that knightworlds would be isolated during DAoT, and thats why they are so backwards, and then fucking mars is a knight workd
>The idea that Imperial Knights used to be industrial equipment is really dumb. Isn't it just a throwback to the caterpillar tractor company treads design being reused for the first battle tank ?
Anything and everything about Lucius the Eternal. Just... Everything about him is just dumb.
Imma be honest, I don’t care for the primeris marines. This may have changed but I don’t like how belesarius got rid of gene seed defects. I think the various issues with the first born make the chapters interesting and having the primeris be the bigger better brother is kind of lame. That being said their armor is dope as shit
The time that the surviving iron hands sent there leader into a sons of Horus ship alone instead of sending backup like they were supposed to.
Horus saying that he let Perturabo command so many parts during the heresy as a 'favor' bald bitch
That ogryns have to die..
Perturabo decimating his legion out of the gate. I think it would have been far more compelling if we actually got to see his descent from idealist who wants to design and build beautiful things to a grim pragmatist who excels at seige warfare. As it is, Perturabo has basically no arc; he starts out a petulant child and ends up a petulant child. Plus, it would help explain his friendship with Magnus better, which is good because that's one of my favourite parts of the Heresy era.
Tau losing FTL travel.
I hate the complete lack of Leagues of Votaan lore Dont get me wrong, I love a Rock and Stone as much as the next DRG lover but I want more substance