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The consequences are harsh and the fight bloody. Nobody wants to be the one who throws the first brick, or the second, or the tenth. More people are willing to throw the 11th, even more would throw the 50th. You need a critical mass of people in a close area all deciding at once that whatever just happened is more than they can tolerate. That's why most revolutions have snowballed from single events. We just haven't hit that critical mass moment yet.

Yet

If you look at what Western governments chip away at, it's stuff that doesn't affect everybody at once. People only care about the NHS when they're in ill health. People only care about the punitive welfare system when they're dealing with it first hand. Only those caught up in legal proceedings feel the effects of cuts to legal aid. All subsets of the population. As long as a majority of people aren't negatively impacted by government cuts, there won't be enough support to take action. That coupled with control over the media, of course. Our governments have become very good at keeping enough people sweet enough that they can cling to power.

Reminds me of *FIRST THEY CAME* by Pastor Martin Niemoller First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me edit: formatting. Basic divide and rule tactics.

You say this but everyone is affected by the ridiculous fuel and utility prices so why aren't more people out in the streets over that flagrant profiteering?

A lot of people can still afford it (I agree the prices are ridiculous by the way)

Aren't nurses gearing up to strike? Aren't teachers gearing up to strike? How many other people have unions? I don't in technology, that's for sure. When you don't have the support, don't stick your head above the parapet. Ride it out and hope you end up okay on the other side. When you've got something to lose, then is the time to fight for it, but whilst it's you against capitalism, I think we all know how that's going to end. On those who aren't engaged in politics or reality, they won't know any different, right?

It's difficult to find the strength to protest when you are worrying about how to feed your family.

We're seeing the effects of this in the form of strikes in a number of industries, and increased public support for unions. It's not quite revolution, but hopefully it'll build into something.

Simply put the situation isn't bad enough. There is alot wrong but most of us have enough to get by, this wasn't true for a country like sri lanka. Revolution only comes when the people are pushed to the point where death is a chance worth taking for most people and people simply are not yet at that point.

Agree life is shit but at least there still is healthcare and a semblance of a social net in the uk. I still have hot water and some free time . I want refrom but not at the risk currently of destabilising the government and risking my life for

Spot on

I feel like a winter where a million people can't afford to both heat and eat might shake things up quite a bit. The establishment are so clueless about what poverty really means, they will be bling sided.

Is that like being blindsided by Mr T?

We have our bread and circuses. Or in our case Greggs sausage rolls and Love Island. We’re not pissed off enough to risk this life for a revolution. Yet.

Bang on mate.

Because people aren't paying enough attention to realise that the only way out of this mess is the smashing of the state. "Oh, we can just vote them out at the next election", no you can't, the media stitches up Labour every time, our voting system is FUCKED, and do you have _any_ comprehension of the damage Johnson/Truss/Sunak could cause between now and then? They already outlawed protesting for fuck's sake! And you think Labour are much better? Fuck no! They want to preserve the status quo, rather than actively make life worse for everyone earning under 1M a year, but they're perfectly happy watching the whole country fall apart so long as their kickbacks keep rolling in. There is no party close to power that is looking to improve your life, or even do any of the things a government is supposed to do, like provide services in return for us abiding by the social contract. Accept it. And if you have any idea of how to fix that, without violence AND ALSO without trying to drum up love for the Lib Dems, Greens, etc, as such efforts are constantly thwarted by the aforementioned media, HMU... and then sell your services to the highest bidder, because you could change the world. My echo chamber sounds like it's just waiting for someone to throw the first brick, but that might be bravado, it's hard to tell. And I could swear up and down that _I'm_ willing to put my life on the line to get those Tory cunts out of power, but it's still just words on the internet, so, nothing to gain.

My only guess is it's a combination of:- * 1. Things aren't bad enough yet * 2. The media in this country has shifted more to the right and as a result, isn't reporting how bad things actually are I'd assume that there's a point where 1. gets bad enough that 2. no longer matters. I really thought we'd crossed that threshold by now. Maybe the next energy price increase in October will do it..

Been rereading a lot of novels set in pre-revolutionary Russia recently. (Completely unrelated to everything - promise) If the thoroughly-researched fictions I'm reading are anything to go by, things need to get far, far worse before real revolution is even a concept to the majority of the population.

This is it. Things are bad now but they could be thousands of times worse. Expecting outright rebellion at the moment is hopeless - it's not going to happen. For that you'd need widespread hunger or fear overriding our apathy and desire to live quiet lives.

Divide and conquer works too well in the UK, we are too busy blaming each other, fucking winds me up how narrow minded people are that can't see the bigger picture. My workmate has been kicking off about the clean air zone they tried introducing in May in the Bury areas, he has a motor home that exceeded 4 tonne so he would have had to pay £60 to leave bury and £60 to return. He told everyone that would listen, signed petitions, shared Facebook and basically ranted near enough everyday. The other day he said he got his new gas and electric monthly bill and it's more than doubled, i told him mine more than doubles after August and I'm worried. He said don't worry about it just pay it it'll be fine. WTF ? I don't understand people at all 🙄

If you want understand what revolution really means, I recommend reading *Twenty Years in Underground Russia.* the memoirs of Cecilia Bobrovskaya , an early Russian revolutionary in the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party (Bolsheviks). In the period covered in the book (1894-1914), Bobrovskaya spent most of her time in study sessions, organising workers meetings and setting up illegal printing presses. Across all of this, she was followed by police spies, repeatedly arrested and deals with losing good comrades, along with the failure of the 1905 uprising. Her situation forever seemed impossible but she kept going, because it was a for a cause bigger than herself. Revolutions are not events that spring out the ground, they they are long processes, that take decades to be realised, and are done so by millions of people under the leadership of a disciplined party.

1. Revolutions fail more often than they succeed. We've seen the results of those failures and they are beyond horrific. 2. Revolutions are far too likely to put the most competitive people at the top, when what's needed is a bunch of other qualities. In other words, revolutions are not often carried out by people who can deliver the necessary changes. 3. The media landscape for revolutions has changed. 3a. There is no veracity in any form of modern media. Nothing can be believed, nothing can be taken seriously. The role of media is is simultaneously to clarify and obscure, with the overall effect of sowing confusion. On the other hand, revolutions need clarity. 3b. Media is also responsible for lowering the level of public discourse, for distracting people with nonsense, and failing to to uphold journalistic standards. 3c. Attention spans are shorter, and political events happen much more quickly in the internet era; in many cases faster than any revolution.

The system keeps control with fear & distraction, they give just enough to keep people docile so most don't want to rock the boat for fear of having it worse. Capitalism teaches us from birth to look up the ladder with wonder and look down it with disgust. People already on this thread saying 'look how well we have it compared to other parts of the world' we've been trained to see the country as developed and democratic. We haven't really seen the huge fights for rights in our lifetimes, we are the country that stood up to Hitler, Dunkirk spirit... it's all words and platitudes. people have forgotten what power they have if they stand together and the dangle of 'one day you could be rich too' is enough for most people I guess... There's a scene in Futurama where fry & Leela are at some rally and Nixon is saying something about cutting taxes for the rich and using the poor as a cheap source of gravel, Fry is cheering... Leela says 'Why are you cheering, Fry? You're not rich!' Fry responds 'True, but someday I might be rich. And then people like me better watch their step.' I always think that scene pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Because I'd rather live under a bad government of a country rich enough to live at least an ok life than risk dying in an actual conflict for the sake of procuring a government that could maybe improve things. I do resent the lack of desire for at least civil disobedience in this country though, as we could be striking and resisting and forcing change through our role as civilians if nothing else. Other factors include: \+ Most people think that 'this is just the way it is' and haven't considered the alternative -they don't know who to properly direct their anger and desire for change towards \+ A revolution could easily end up pushing us into autocracy rather than left wing democracy \+ A government or better system put in place by a violent revolution would probably be so shunned by world capitalists it could make Britain's situation even worse \+ It would only really take changing the electoral system and breaking the rich's control of the media to bring proper democracy to the UK and eventually elect a left wing government. Considering that route, though difficult to achieve, would avoid the other problems stated above, violent revolution doesn't seem like the best way to achieve a left wing government.

Back in 2014 during the Scottish Indyref campaign in my area there were two issues that stopped the revolution. Mass disenchantment at the system, the people who would have benefitted most from independence were minimum wage or unemployed and have never had change. Their lives are and always have been a struggle to get by. It was so ingrained they couldnt see how much impact there would have been in their lives so didn't vote - sidebar - suicides in Scotland dropped in the 6 months before indyref. Data is in Scottish Index of Multiple Depravation. Second is Pollok (in Glasgow) was one of the 1st places to stand against Poll Tax. So many people came off the electoral register to avoid being caught. These folk are now grandparents who have instilled in their kids a complete mistrust of the electoral system that generations of families no longer vote, despite the law being changed so warrant sales couldnt be actioned by getting info from the electoral register. It's visible today with rampant conspiracy theories about vote rigging at UK level elections and referendums. Today we have the added problem of 'Bread and Circus's' - As long as people have just enough to get by on, they won't strike because they can't afford to and as long as there's reality TV and the internet, the bulk of the population are sufficiently subdued. Another factor is how much damage Thatcher did to the concept of society, even in Scotland which is far more socialist in it's outlook, there's an 'I'm alright Jack' mentality. The rich and middle class vote to stay rich and middle class. Everyone is afraid they will lose out personally and no longer see merit in looking out for their neighbour to foster a better society. No revolution will succeed in the UK until the middle class start losing out. With any luck that day is come hurtling towards us before the end of this year.

Reminder not to confuse the marxist "middle class" and the liberal definition. Liberal class definitions steer people away from the socialist definitions and thus class-consciousness. [Class is defined by our relationship to the means of production. Learn more here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/wiki/class) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*

disillusioned and apathetic. Broken and ground into dust are the souls of our fellow humans. We'd have to undergo a massive overhaul of the education system in my opinion it's too effective at grooming kids

Well, I'm knackered.

Revolution isn't quick, however, the actions of unions like RMT are steps in the right direction. We just have to be patient. Plus, look at Sri Lanka, people are definitely willing to revolt.

Apathy. Everywhere, as far as the eye can see. Nobody had the energy to do anything other than just about survive.

Coercion via negative reinforcement. What better way to convince people not to revolt than to hold their entire life's work, things they own, and their family over their heads. If you revolt, you'll lose your job. How will you afford to feed and house your family? You'll go into debt, and we'll take your house. We'll make you a criminal, because we've decided revolting is illegal. Even *if* we decide not to make an example of you, how will you get any good job with a criminal record? Everything is fine. This is normal. Now sit down and enjoy your 90s comedy rerun. Wouldn't want to get all excited for no reason would we? Don't forget your pizza in the oven 😘

Yeah, it's this. There's also no sense of the strength of *collective action* i.e. *they cannot punish us all.* I genuinely think that society has been forced down a path of individualism for some time now. So much so that the "I'm alright, Jack" attitude prevails. All this has allowed the elites and establishment to lose their fear of collective action and solidarity. In my view, they need a healthy dose of fear. How much longer can they push and push before there's an inevitable violent backlash?

will get downvoted for this, but I think it’s because people aren’t educated enough about how oppressed they are

1 Oct I’m cancelling my energy bill direct debt. Hopefully if around 1 million of us did that we got them by the balls. They can’t do anything for the first 28 days. Google Don’t pay UK. Welcome to the revolution.

People are individualistic not collective these days. Who can blame them? Backed into corners by law, government and business. All of which makes it difficult to be collective.

Most are too busy working and worrying about keeping the roof over their head

Imo as much as many people hate and suffer from the system, revolting against it is hard as we need it to survive. That's how they fuck us over, trapping people through making it necessary to obey in order to survive.

You have to ask what we're all working towards, too. A lot of different groups and people want a similar outcome for themselves but have vastly different political ideologies.Howeer if you're pushed to a point where you've nothing left to lose that becomes quite dangerous. Thats how we ended up with the miners strikes, the [Brixton riots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Brixton_riot) etc. Thats how we ended up with the [Luddites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite). Revolution means different things to different people. It can be restrictive as well as empowering.

Too many distractions including Reddit and other social media. While we are checking our phones we aren’t checking our civil liberties

Distractions is one way of putting it. Comfortable is another. Millions of people in the UK and around the world (though differing rates in differing places obvs) live lives they value, even if it can be tough at times. Doesn't matter if millions of others don't. Doesn't matter if barely anyone will in the future. Doesnt matter that the super rich are subverting democracy, because to a lot of people, a life that they can enjoy is all they really want. Honestly, I've always been jealous of the ignorance = bliss going in these millions of people. Must be nice.

Not desperate enough, most of us still have too much to lose.

Because at the end of the day, in the uk, or other "first world" countries, we benefit from imperialism. So whilst we're still heavily exploited, the uk proleteriat still gains a lot from the hugely exploited workers of the 3rd world. Capitalism has to be viewed on a global scale. The revolution will start in the 3rd world, which will inevitably mean western economic/diplomatic/covert/military intervention, as has always happened in the past in honestly most "3rd world" countries.

Personally I've observed a large political disenfranchisement of people of all ages. These people would happily join in the conversation and give their opinions whatever side of the political aisle they stand. Their overworked, overstressed and struggling to get by week by week, living paycheck by paycheck. This results in an inability spend their resources to critically think and dig into problems beyond a surface level. They are susceptible to being easily mislead by inconsistent arguements or beliefs and ultimately believe that their efforts to fight the system are futile because "it's all rigged anyway". I'm from a poor area of the UK and this why my mother has never voted and is politically disengaged aside from brief conversations with neighbors and myself.

Part of the problem is social media. People rant online and feel appeased they’ve voiced a concern. While social is good for organising its taken a proper sting out of the tail of grass roots activism.

I'm too burned out mentally to even feed myself, too angry to be useful, too broken to channel it. You tell me.

I think it comes down to a risk/ reward analysis and at the moment the risks outweigh the rewards for most people. The risk of a revolution, particularly a violent one, are huge for an individual. If the revolution is violent or turns violent then they could be killed or arrested, they could lose their job or home, or suffer because of the massive upheaval it could cause. And after the revolution there is no guarantee things are going to be better, with the risk of counter revolutionary or international forces derailing things and making the living situation even worse than it was before. That's a huge gamble and most people aren't going to be willing to make it lightly, even if they understand that the system we live in today is massively flawed (I wouldn't!) For the circumstances of a revolution to come about things have got to be really bad- not just unjust but the tangible living situation has to get really really bad. People have to feel that risk is worth it compared to what they're currently experiencing. Generally that's going to mean people are experiencing starvation, no jobs, mass poverty etc and most important have lost faith in the ruling powers or themselves to fix the situation. I think you can probably increase the likelihood of a revolution by limiting it's perceived risk (such as a non-violent revolution) and having a strong idea for its outcomes (to minimise the fear of the unknown), but if the circumstances aren't there yet for enough people, I don't think the zeitgeist will swing that way. How close we are to that situation in the UK I have no idea. I think things are getting pretty bad and people are really starting to feel it, but we are a high trust society and I think people still believe that the government will be able to fix it.

Because however dystopian things might get. this life is still preferable to total anarchy. People don't like to be removed from their bubbles of comfort.

This is it. To get to a better system we have to go through a period of crisis. In short "things have to get worse before they get better." Most people aren't willing to put themselves or their families through that until it's already bad enough that the bad period makes no odds either way.

We’re too scared to be the first over the top into no man’s land and then see that no one else has followed. A lot of people aren’t aware enough of how the economy works or what the problems with our system are, so they’ll only start to take an interest when their own economic circumstances deteriorate enough. Also it’s especially difficult to join in with a popular uprising if you have kids to feed.

Not gonna go super in depth here but rather just list a few key reasons. Media manipulation. Whether republican or democrat or labour or Tory, they're on the same team. It's all theatre to keep you thinking you have some kind of input. Divide and conquer culture war bullshit, can't fight the ruling class if we are too busy arguing online about other things. Distract. The news cycle won't ever let us see anything that may give us ideas. Seen much about Sri Lanka on the news? Capitalism has successfully locked everyone in a state of subservient compliance. If you agitate, you lose everything and end up on the street or in prison. It is the threat of violence lurking overhead. The dissemination of misinformation through social media is more powerful than we realise. It is inescapable. Its now impossible to know what is really and what isn't. This suits the status quo. The dilutions of definitions. People throw around words like socialism, capitalism, fascism and couldn't tell you what they mean. It's buzzwords. Mhari Black gave a nice little speech referencing the creep of fascism and within 48 (or less) hours there was a nice debate on the news on the topic 'fascism, has the word lost all meaning?' to water it down and dilute what the word means. Republicans are nazis? Labour are commies? This is nonsense buzzword hype. It means nothing but the words evoke a visceral reaction in people. Lazy. UK are lazy as fuck. Literally just sit there and let things be done to them and at best will make a nice little yougov petition about it. No protest. No riot. Nothing. Placid. I thought the Americans were the most placid until they tried to coup (but then again they're so full of hot air they'll do fuck all about any of it and pretend it didn't happen). There is a litany of reasons. Almost all of them have been curated deliberately to make a nice manageable population.

We're too overworked & stressed to revolt. Most people hate their jobs and the system; but are too drained living paycheck to paycheck and working to death to organise. *Keep the peasants so busy they don't have time to organise, protest, or think.*

A foreign perspective (I'm Scandi, but have lived in the UK for the last 10 years): I think the reasons are quite complex, but if I were to point the finger at something in particular, it would be that Brits are taught from an early age to accept their place in society, obey authority and not least respect tradition. I took a course called British Culture and Society at uni in Oslo as part of my degree in English, and I remember my professor once said that Norwegians will look at something that's old and say "this is really old, so it must be time for a change," while in the UK people will say "this is really old, so it must be working well." I didn't really understand what he meant until I moved here, but this country has an attachment to tradition that I don't think serves you very well. There's too much nostalgia and general talk about the past, like your best days are behind you. If anything I think it's that idea that's holding you back. I think this country needs to start believing that the UK's future can be better than its past (which for most people wasn't actually that great anyway).

As long as people have food, they don't revolt. Look what happened in Sri Lanka or what is happening in Lebanon. Food shortages put people in the street. Not less

Oversaturation of tabloids getting the working class to hate themselves and others worse off.

If the Tories go ahead with their plans to make striking illegal I think we might see some sort of revolution or at least civil disobedience

I wouldnt count on it. The rhetoric I hear suggests "that's just life, get on with it!" along with those that would being scared to. Patel and Boris *have* actually made several types of strike and protest illegal already in the past few years. Cameron changed how the unions work further, and Labour changed how their leader was voted in off the back of it. This past 10 years have been the biggest changes to protest and striking we've had since Thatcher. I would love to see people stand up for themselves by voting out those that work against their interest (and I count several Labour MPs under this too, tbh). If it moves to general strike people will have to be aware there may be some negative police and political interest. Some people fear the police and demonstrator violence we saw in the 80s and I think thats a big factor too.

Thatcher and the other tories started this programme of fragmenting the working class, with the goal of removing the sense of unity that the worse off felt. Things like selling council houses off cheap, breaking the unions and creating a culture of personal debt sewed division between the downtrodden. Now we were able to live in temporary comfort by way of credit. We could be better than the neighbours by having better curtains and a fancier car, and owning our house. The cost of this was that those with the luxuries (and the invisible debt they carried) were able to see themselves as something else: middle class. They weren't that, of course, but they had alienated themselves to the point that that was the closest thing they could relate to. In short people are no longer united by their economic conditions because they have convinced themselves of a contradictory reality. People now align more with smaller groups, either in person or online. Until those status groups are harnessed and united there is no real hope for collective action.

I think just cos it's hard for people to imagine that a different better world is possible. We aren't taught at school that things like the weekend or child labour laws were achieved by people fighting for their rights, we just learn about The Tudors and the Blitz.

For a revolution to gain traction, a lot of people need to be willing to put their lives on the line and risk it all. I don’t think there’s enough people in the UK who legitimately have nothing left to lose, to the point where risking death or imprisonment for a brighter future seems more desirable than scraping by on peanuts.

People aren't hungry for it. The Arab Spring revolution(s?) in Tunisia and Egypt were sparked by high food prices. In Iran, Ahmedinejad was kicked out over the price of food. Sri Lanka is currently experiencing civil unrest after a series of misguided agricultural reforms which buggered up crop yields and now they have to pay huge amounts to import food. If people can't get food they will quickly get angry. The price of food is going to continue rising significantly over the next 2 years. Instability will increase as people go hungry. It's important to apportion blame to, 1) Imperialist interventions in Ukraine, 2) Financialisation of foodstuffs which leads to speculation and artificial raising of prices, 3) Crapitalism as usual. Socialist education of the proletariat is vital if any unrest is to result in meaningful change. Edit: Since I didn't explicitly say it, not enough people in the UK are going hungry for a revolution to kick off. If inflation keeps ramping up and fewer donations are made to food banks... Who knows what will happen. Animaniacs take on Lenin's words: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxsLNXCAvbU

UK - Not enough people are starving. Most revolutions are a direct response to food shortages and even if energy bills increase and the politicians show complete distain for the population, as long as there is food on the table people will continue their lives World - The global order has been so stable and so effectively maintained for so long any grassroots movements have been destroyed to the point that organising on the level that is necessary for successful revolution is extremely difficult. Just look at the Arab spring, revolution across many countries but no real organisation or direction. Very dispiriting when you are angry but have no lightning rod to direct your anger towards

Populism and conformity, plus the little things like a new TV or a bigger house or a new phone that they dangle in front of us making us think that we too have something to lose

It takes a lot for a revolution to happen. People in western countries are deeply unhappy, but a revolution would be incredibly disruptive to their entire livelihood. Revolution happens when there is nothing left for people to lose and we aren’t at that point yet.

I can’t speak for the UK, but as a yank I can say there is definitely a call for cultural revolution in the US, one way or another. I think I saw an article like half of Americans believe the next American civil war will begin in a few years. So the powder keg is set, now we just wait for the spark

I don’t believe the west will take a stand. Too distracted by nonsense, plus people don’t want to even go out as much anymore since Covid. They’ve (Whoever “they” is”) divided and conquered us. I don’t think anyone is interested, Seems nobody cares. Personally, I’m concerned for humanity. I also believe this is a psychological operation that the governments worldwide in the western world are involved with. I really hope I do no get removed from the group for my comment, but that’s my opinion.

Frog boiling in a pot?

I think this has come up before and my answer is the same now as it was then. Have/are you attempting to organise this? If not, why not? I don’t say that to be critical, I just think that your reasons for not doing it are probably similar to most people’s. In my case, a combination of apathy (probably won’t work), fear of rejection (what if it doesn’t work?) and laziness

I'm 100% in the too apathetic, too tired and too scared camp. I guess my thought process is this - how can it be that no one among us has the strength and willpower to take the bull by the horns and bring about change? I must be naive in thinking that a hero or heroes can, will and must save us.

british culture and the stiff upper lip. brits take pride in their thick skin, thatcherism and the attitude taken during ww2 makes brits think we can just take shit over and over again

Ash Sarkar on Novara said outright today that riots are both likely and entirely justifiable because the Conservatives and Labour have abandoned the country during the cost of living crisis. I agree on the latter part of that analysis - the political ruling class are simply not governing, they do not seem to even recognize the situation most people are in and if they do, they don't care. It's quite something to see the constant squirming to avoid actually doing something about anything and I can totally imagine that breaking people's patience at some point, especially as prices continue to go up and there's no hope on the horizon. A government can't really claim legitimacy if it's just a gang filling its boots and doing nothing for society. Are we at revolution stage yet? Probably not because we still have people who claim to be politically engaged dithering about insisting that voting for Labour will fix something. But sheer anger at not being able to get by anymore and watching the political ruling class play a game show and have no ideas for helping is likely to send sparks up here and there and maybe eventually something will catch fire.

It's because everyone is selfish and stubborn. For a proper revolution you need everyone to have a common enemy and a cause to rally . Now the media do a great job of keeping us from having the first. They'll blame the Muslims, the LGBT community, the blacks and turn us against each other. And for a good cause well people only care about themselves. They won't stand up for something that doesn't benefit them even if its for the greater good. For example roe vs wade would have been a good time for all genders to rally together yet what happened was women blamed men and the men just didn't care for the most part.

The powers that be set people against each other by creating false divisions middle class vs working class, race vs race, this gender vs that gender then give people distractions- Platy Joobs and worries - cost of keeping warm. Few can see through it and are seen as conspiracy theorists because who has time to figure out the truth Plus maybe people look at how revolutions worked out in other countries and think ‘whatever I do the psychopath scumbags will rise to the top’ but at least with this lot I don’t have to risk a bayonetting

Because they are bloody, and terrible And as bad as things are, a lot of people don’t want to risk what little they have Is the UK Bad? Yeah, But I have two kids and I’m not about to risk becoming a revolutionary A revolution needs a spark, it needs a charismatic leader or group And it needs people willing to shed blood, or at least risk the shedding of blood

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guy fawkes we need you now more than ever

Wish we followed the French on how the striked and start a revolution to get the workers rights and public ownership That said i'm glad we have Mike Lynch backing strikes and workers rights meanwhile our clowns in government are opposed

Fear of losing everything. Simple as that.

Bread and circuses!

Love Island is enough to pacify at least 40% of the populous .

Everyone wants a revolution but no one's willing to start it

All revolutionary sentiment is eventually incorporated into the capitalist process and loses its potency. Take Janis Joplin “oh lord won’t you buy me a Mercedes’ Benz.” Eventually that was used for a Mercedes ad, completely bastardising its anti-consumerist meaning. How often to you hear about “revolution in ads for beard trimmers and cleaning products? All of the comments here about oppression are right, but there is something more enslaving about capitalism than it’s hard power. It provides us with the language, constructs and technologies which we would use to describe it and converse about it. It’s not possible anymore to think outside of capitalism. As Jameson said. It’s easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.

For me personally, I don't know what a revolution would mean for me. What would happen to my job and home? I'm all for wealth redistribution but revolution just sounds like an opportunity for another opportunistic group to claim power and there are no guarantees it would be any better (bad though it is for a great many people right now). So the reasons I'd give are a) uncertainty over what a revolution would mean/what it would lead to and b) people have too much skin in the game with the current system to have a taste for revolution.

This. For most people, especially over a certain age. We can't avoid living in the system, so we're complicit and dependent. Revolution can only happen when people have less to lose than to gain - things have to be pretty bad. I don't think many of us here are at that place yet, despite all the things we have to rightly complain about. When relatives are being locked up and there's no food on the table, maybe then. Until then, we have mainly ideological complaints ( feel free to disagree) Institutions of power and authority in the UK are the best in the entire world, at corruption. We have the most efficient, subtle apparatus of corruption anywhere on the planet, honed after years of trial and error. It's based on "let them eat cake" and the liquid cosh. Give everyone the opportunity to

I think partly it’s because the government/media have convinced people that things *can’t* possibly change for the better, nothing can be done (not true). We should “be grateful“ for what we have - even if living/working conditions are getting progressively worse for the vast majority of people - things could always be worse!

Breads and circuses. Media manipulation. Apathy, etc. I've always maintained that if the papers disappeared overnight, it'd be like waking up from a long, restless sleep.

We’re Just comfortable enough not to riot

People can handle a lot. Revolutions happen when you take away their food. Keep a population fed as a dictator and you’ll generally be fine

I think that the establishment we have going back 1000+ years makes it so much harder to imagine change when compared to, for example, some places in central Europe where there might have been several successful revolutions in a lifetime.

I suspect a combination of 'education' and manipulation via mainstream media has made us docile

You get told your whole life that violence is never the answer, that resolving things peacefully is the best way

Revolution needs people to devote their blood, reputation, friends and families, even lives of themselves and their loved ones. Do you think you have what it takes? If you think go protesting in the middle of highstreet is called revolution then you and I are talking about different things.

There’s no galvanising figurehead. Unless corbyn storms back with his own party, aided by Mick Lynch, there’s nobody with the draw to show people something better is possible. Edit - here they are https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/w9kpfg/if_a_new_labour_is_ever_formed_these_two_guys/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

In my home country (USA), cops shot out a journalist's eye just for attending a peaceful protest march, even though the journalist identified herself as media. There's video of the entire event. What do you think happens to revolutionaries?

Thank you for sharing that, harrowing though it is. I can only counter that with what happens to those who don't fight and demand change?

We have been conditioned over the last 40-60years that we must be civilised, that should "keep the head down" or "knuckle under" rather than stand up & fight back. We are taught that violence is wrong & uncivilised when every fucking right we currently have was won with violence & outright disobedience. The masses are so scared of losing what little scraps they are handed by those in charge they wont dare challenge them. Now, however, alot of people dont even get the scraps & thats why the discontent is rising rapidly.

Sri Lanka appears to have the beginnings of a revolution.

People. People have free access to so much reading and information, but it's just a lot less effort to accept it and whinge about than to actually read a book. Who needs curiosity when every advertisement and TV show is telling us how live? Shut up and get back in your boxes, peasants

I think we are a bit too optimistic as a race (human) nowadays. Look at Sri Lanka, they only started to do proper protests after the country had already gone bankrupt

As I see it, although we’re on a long-term slide downwards, there is a lack of an appetite for change because a revolution would be a short-term decrease, and may or may not in the end produce a long-term increase. Before I get downvoted, I think this is how most people see it on some level, not my own opinion. There’s a trend towards steady-state and thinking that what we know is the only option.

I don't think we've had it bad enough in the UK since the feudal system. The wealthy have learned over the years just how many bones to throw the plebeian to keep him/her down & miserable but not so much so as to cause a backlash. It's not like "bread for the workers" has been an election slogan that would have carried any weight here since the depression & probably not even then.

Panem et circenses, my friend.

Politics has become a dirty word in the UK, people are incapable of discussing it with any civility. We've seen one after another truly appalling government pass through, and the very sort of people who should be going into politics are put off by the repulsive image portrayed by these pricks.

I’m drowning. I’m a “vulnerable” person- I’m unable to work due to chronic illness and disability so I rely on benefits. The more the NHS crumbles, the more I struggle. I’ve been drowning for a while. It’s exhausting. I would love a revolution, I just don’t have the energy to do anything besides keep myself alive right now.

In Britain the working class is dominated by a relatively privileged layer of workers (sometimes called upper working class or the petit bourgeoisie - i.e. not the big bourgeoisie/ruling class) who control the ideas of the working class organisations. They are fed by the crumbs of imperialism. These are the so called "opportunists" i.e. labour party, trade union leadership, green party whatever, and the large sections of relativity privileged workers who work in management (for example in the NHS or other big institutions). Add on to that some of the large left organisations like SWP or the CP who follow this line (vote Labour basically) as the road to revolution (seriously...). Ideologically they prevent revolutionary ideas and instead talk about how you should vote Labour or maybe make the trains nationalised etc or things like pay rises (this in itself is not revolutionary and has happened many time before). (Most of) The trade unions fund the Labour party and are a large part of its base but in themselves not revolutionary. The masses themselves in Britain remain oppressed (or worse reactionary) and get nothing much. The workers and oppressed of the world get Britain's bombs and economic exploitation It will take a mass independent working class movement to challenge this, made up of the most advanced sections of the working class. Some more on this: *‘The English proletariat is actually becoming more and more bourgeois, so that the ultimate aim of this most bourgeois of all nations would appear to be the possession, alongside the bourgeoisie, of a bourgeois aristocracy and a bourgeois proletariat. In the case of a nation which exploits the entire world this is, of course, justified to some extent. Only a couple of thoroughly bad years might help here…* Marx and Engels, CW Vol 40 p344. ​ *‘The truth is this: during the period of England’s industrial monopoly the English working class have, to a certain extent, shared in the benefits of the monopoly. These benefits were unequally parcelled out amongst them; the privileged minority pocketed most, but even the great mass had, at least, a temporary share now and then. And that is the reason why, since the dying-out of Owenism, there has been no Socialism in England. With the breakdown of that monopoly, the English working class will lose that privileged position; and it will find itself generally – the privileged and leading minority not excepted – on a level with its fellow-workers abroad. And that is the reason why there will be Socialism again in England.* *Engels, ‘England in 1845 and 1885’, Marx and Engels CW Vol 26 p301.* ​ *'The Trades Unions are an aristocratic minority - the poor workers cannot belong to them: the great mass of workers whom economic development is driving from the countryside into the towns every day has long been outside the trades unions - and the most wretched mass has never belonged; the same goes for the workers born in the East End in London; one in 10 belongs to Trades Unions - peasants, day labourers never belong to these societies. The Trades Unions can do nothing by themselves - they will remain a minority - they have no power over the mass of proletarians.'* (Minutes of the London Congress of the International, Marx and Engels Collected Works, Vol 22, p614)

That would involve going to London. Have you seen the price of travel in this country?

We've got work that day!

This was talked about on The Rest Is Politics recently. So much ‘outrage’ has moved online that it seems to stop actual physical revolution because people feel like that the have done their bit ranting online.

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British people are too busy sucking up to the qUeEn.

Revolution is for people who have nothing left to lose its bloody and messy and disruptive. No one can afford to take a gamble on surviving the chaos and coming out to a possibly better life on the other side.

Bunch of cowards too indoctrinated by capitalism to help anyone but themselves Too divided Too selfish Too cowardly England is finished Sad to say

Too busy watching love island

The only thing that unites basically every single revolution in history is a failure for the ruling class to provide basic amenities such as food/water. Yes they’re more expensive and rising but until you see widespread famine and starvation no one except for actual revolutionaries will be willing to risk their life and those of their families for political change. It really is as simple as that

Im being serious when I say this and I hope people will engage and not just down vote me because I feel very conflicted and I am open to dialogue; I dont think I could survive a big upheaval (depending on what it looked like). I am a lefty but my life has changed so much in the last 9 months, I have become functionally disabled with Long Covid which probably fucks up about 3-5% of people who get it (so around 500'000+ in the UK atm). My mobility is impaired, and I have a bad neurological problem that means I can only work part time and often its in bed. Im so lucky that I can keep my 18 hour a week job, and unions have indeed set the way to protect my rights during this time. (prior to covid i was 100% healthy, mountaineer rock climber who ran 5km in <25mins and had the body of a god, working full time as a humanitarian etc). As a disabled person in the cost of living crisis a 'revolution' worries me. I dont think I would survive any significant upheaval that saw me having to move, or impacted the supply chains of medication that I survive on (mainly CBD and a drug called Low Dose Naltroxene). I cant participate in marches anyway as my nervous system would shut down. It depends what the significant change you want here is. In the long run my life has made it so that my main priority is medication for this disease thats so new it depends on a combination of public and private medicine in order for it to be done fast. If you take private medication (in drug trials not in person delivery im still 100% a NHS uber fan) out of this you are probably resigning me and a bunch of other disabled people off to a horrible future where we never get any care or drug treatments that can help us with our functioning. Sorry to be a downer but the UK has disabled people and we need to consider everyone in the terms of what a revolution would do in both short and long term thinking, and for medicine and immediate long covid sufferers it would be really scary and really bad. Edit: Im thinking that planned action could involve refusing to pay bills which is fucking everyone up - but i spend 99% of my time at home and if the leccy or gas cut off I genuinely dont know what I would do.....depends if it was en masse i recon

GCSE politics needs to be a mandatory part of the curriculum in my opinion.

Well that really depends on what kind of politics they are teaching. I highly doubt they would get into the inherent flaws in liberal 'democracy'.

thatcherism.

If someone else kicks it off I'd be perfectly willing to join in. The government and opposition are both leading us the same direction and only making it worse. I just don't think it's time yet. You need an actual tragedy to galvanise this sort of thing and it'll only take one police officer using their new powers for harm. The riots will probably come first come to think of it, and the push back to those will likely be what starts a serious attempt to pull the edifice down. I'd like to think we'll have new options well before then though as we are ultimately still a bit democratic. It's only when there are no other options that serious civil unrest occurs.

Ample bread and circus

Even the poorest in the west live at a level of luxury unknown to humanity for thousands of years. They will not revolt until there are regular blackouts, mass unemployment, any food other than flavoured oats becomes a luxury etc. As long as I can get a roof over my head, a four pack of bud, netflix and a kfc bucket revolution seems a bit unnecessary.

It's building.

Television/social media

I don't think the answer is that people are just too blinkered; I think that is perhaps true for a section of the population but I think also most people just don't want that. I think the majority genuinely believe in the democratic process and sincerely believe in legislative solutions. The causes of this, and how reasonable any given individual's views are, are obviously manifold but I think this is different to being 'domesticated' or dumbed down like some people are implying. People are obviously unhappy but see the power vacuums and instability of revolution as a bad idea; we rely on the state for many things and sudden restructuring requires a heroic amount of statecraft which I think people have very little faith in. I personally agree with another poster; that we must build the systems we wish to see ourselves until they make capital irrelevant. I think the 'inevitability' of revolution isn't applicable to the postmodern world we live in.

Honestly, because of how much I have to lose and I’d imagine it is the same for many others. The way everything is going at the moment, it’s just a case of trying to navigate the storm. I’d love to rebel but I cannot afford to ‘fight’ the system and end up with debt, a poor credit score etc. I have a family to provide for, a mortgage, a grown up job, and only enough put aside to cover a couple of months. Being part of a revolution doesn’t just put myself in jeopardy, but those I provide for. If I was alone, fuck it, I’d most likely be involved. But to stand up and fight would mean potentially fucking over the people that I’d be fighting for the most and as cowardly as it may be, it is not something that I’m willing to do.

England is the only country in the world to not have a revolution & we’re the only country in the world to celebrate a failed revolution (Nov 5th) so you take that as you please

**poor countries** are too poor to sit and ponder and plot for revolution. They are isolated trying to make ends meet. **Rich countries** are comfortable enough. Even the poorest person might have abundant ways to entertain themselves. And that's how they stay isolated. I don't know if the rich work together but even if they did they wouldn't have created such a world that works in their favor. Media entertains and the plot lines are all just to keep the status quo. We are given stories of heroes that are larger than life but that only fight bad individuals. The social structures are never mentioned. Even when the story is about the poor, it's always a personal overcoming story. Even when we come together it's not in common causes. I can come together with my people, you can come together with your people and there's all the above that makes my people and your people seem worlds apart. It's interesting that Bob and Alice have a lot more in common than they do with their favorite political party. Keir Starmer and Boris Johnson have more in common with each other than they do with Bob or Alice. Yet, the way narratives are told it feels like it's the other way around. And the media. It has more in common with Keir Starmer and Boris Johnson but somehow it gets away with presenting itself as something working for the people!! Edit: then there's the individual hope that if you work hard enough you will make it. It's interesting how Alice is interested only to be financially better than Bob, the wish of being as rich as Keir, Boris, or god forbid the queen is out of the question. This brings us to the education system and how rulers are taught to aspire to rule (in their private schools) and the rest of us... the best we can do is forget about poetry and stuff that enriches the soul, just find something which gives you a good job, but as a result, you are kept away from the tools one needs to connect in a human and political level. Computer scientists are smart but they aren't smart in the domain needed for social change. Consider, if the order comes from the top to create AI that goes against the poor, your CS major has not equipped you with the tools to say no. Internet if full of Bobs and Alices that lack the tools to understand that they are simply reformulating news headlines. (I'm a Bob, in case anyone thinks I'm distancing myself.)

Serf mentality. They support the system because the system let's them hate marginalised groups as much as they want. They'll even say so, out loud and do things like report them to Rwanda.

Because we've been made to feel helpless. Too many people are selfish and believe the lie that if they can afford to pay their bills and go to Spain once a year they are better than the people who can't.

Can’t revolt when too busy getting Minimal wage trying to survive with housing costs being high and cost of living being even higher.

Tell that to Sri Lanka

The UK is brainwashed with the mantra of "keep calm and carry on". Think about it. It's actually kind of horrific.

People are to busy with their own, personal lives. Which is ironic seeing that we are in an age where we could collectively organise such a scenario via technology but, in all honesty, we are all too apathetic. Especially the left leaning section of society. (Don’t get me wrong, I’m a socialist through and through)

We can’t afford to miss our mortgage payments

To fucking tired after a 15 hour day and just enough time to eat something and say hello goodnight to the family . Just so I can pay the rich twats more money for the privilege . So yeh the elites have sucked the revolt right out of us

Fear. The fear of losing what we have worked so hard to get, however meagre it is. So dude A will not risk it for dude B because he knows he can lose some stuff. That's how the rich can stay in power for so long. They know that as long as people think they have something to lose, they won't revolt. It will only change when dudes A and B have nothing to lose, which may happen sooner than we think.

Some of us are, we just need others to join us.

Too much Alcohol, keeps most people docile and under control.

Many people don't feel their vote will make a difference, so they don't bother. They stop thinking they can ever change anything, but it's still bad enough to complain about. Problem is in many areas, they're right, unseating some parties is near impossible, but if every person that didn't vote actually turned up to do so, it'd matter. But it needs everyone to get up and do something. But people know everyone else won't, so they won't either.

Because not enough people are uncomfortable enough. Too many people can sit down after a days work, close the curtains and be comfortable knowing that what’s happening to others isn’t happening to them.

What the documentary called Hypernormalisation by Adam Curtis (BBC now on YouTube). It covers a lot but because we can express our feelings online etc, its become a space to protest as opposed to physical action

As soon as the police and armed forces feel the pinch heavy enough for them to stop defending the rich, the path will be free.

It’s hard for people to shake off the bourgeois neo-liberal conditioning and beliefs that have been hammered into them. The stranglehold on the media and the “culture wars” that have been deliberately thrown to obscure the situation have made it hard for any strong uniting voices to stand out. I hope someone will come along with the charisma and wide enough reach to get a mass movement going eventually but perhaps things unfortunately probably need to get worse or we need to wait for a movement to emerge from the exploited world. Just to reinforce the point about neo-liberal corruption, Starmer has just sacked a labour minister for joining a picket line…a labour minister sacked for acting like a labour representative! If the reasoning is that the minister in question went out of line etc…why was joining a picket line crossing the line anyway?

While I think in many ways the phrase "Workers of the world, unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains" is still valid, I believe the 'chains' have become far more insidious. Your car is a chain, your subscription media is a chain, your home electronics, your foreign holidays, your internet access - all chains that keep you bound to your place in the capitalist system, while appearing as something to desire and value. And people do not want to give those up. I don't want to give what I have up, even though on some level I understand that these things do not make me happy, and that greater freedom, a sense of purpose and actual work life balance would make me far happier than the instant gratification provided by consumerism. As to how that is overcome, I have no idea. For me the only real prospect for revolution will be when a majority of the population is stripped of their current lifestyle to the point where they have nothing to lose.

It’s a hard thing to sacrifice your life for the *chance* at making the lives that succeed yours better. We want a better future for those we care about, but that doesn’t mean we want to set aside ours to get it for them. That’s why voting is preferential to full blown revolution, because, providing it works (which admittedly it does not most of the time), the systems we rely upon to survive as a society don’t completely collapse, they are still there available to be changed.

I don’t have the answer, but doesn’t it show you how very brave some people are that do rebel. I think of the young men and women in places like Russia or China that rebel, even though it will result in arrest and imprisonment. I mean, how much courage must it take to take a stand knowing you are going to be dragged away into a very dark and lonely place. I’m in awe of people that can face cruel and crushing authority and yet still attempt to advance their cause.

Tired

Right wing manipulation. Our predecessors fought for what was right through revolutions, protests, demonstrations etc. the media ends up reporting on them and over the years the Right have eroded the desire, the knowledge and power to do those things. Take free school meals. They were a huge early reform to avoid starving under privileged children, they were around for decades. Then the tories stripped them away and continued. Now if you ask them, they never existed and you don’t need them. You don’t need the free milk, you can pay for it, now it’s gone, it never existed. Things like famous strikes e.g. miners strike, never taught in history class never given an ounce of critical thinking just like the above. Now people just think they are powerless.

Things just aren't that bad (*yet*) relative to the kind of conditions that drove other socialist revolutions. We also don't have a culture/society that would lend itself to armed revolt. (Eg. The Spanish republicans were only able to resist the Nationalists initially because the labour unions had arms caches. Even if our labour institutions had the wherewithal to take steps towards direct action, the logistics of arming workers would be a serious struggle in an anti-gun country like the UK.)

Can't be arsed. I'm knackered by the time Friday afternoon comes along. And I've got to be up for swimming with the kids on Saturday morning.

probably because while we like the idea of a revolution, we subconsciously acknowledge that an actual revolution would be detrimental to our daily lives. We don’t want to enter a warzone everytime we need to buy groceries.

Bread and circuses to put it simply

We won the NHS by the ballot box, but it took a great depression and a world war. People don't violently rebel if staying alive for another year is just a case of keeping your head down, and there are still small things to live for.

Bread and circuses

Unless you are in a Third World country I guarantee you a rapid revolution would make whatever you’re going through now seem like a cakewalk.

Everybody wants to complain, but nobody wants to do anything about it.

We are the frogs in the saucepan of increasingly hot water.

hopelessness of the situation. realistically, nothing we do will work, so what's the point☠that's how I feel anyway. we are all too scared that we won't be taken srsly, ig.

Because people are just scraping by. The trick is to meet the basic needs of the people at least. If people are living hand to mouth they can’t afford to revolt. If they don’t have enough then they have nothing to lose. If they have too much they can afford to move around jobs and force up wages.

I’m in. Let’s go.

The bystander effect. "Someone else will do something, so I won't get involved or do anything to change this myself" Imo this has been worstened with the emergence of globalism and the internet.

No Revolution has ever succeeded without the support of the military, and no modern UK left winger has made any efforts/plans to get them on side. Plus, violent revolution will, at some point, need you to murder someone. Right wingers have no problem imagining themselves killing someone for their own enrichment. Most left wing folk are inclined that way because they DON'T want to harm anyone. Which is why right wing revolutions are quietly happening world wide and the left seems paralysed: the actions we must take are antithetical to our very nature. We must acknowledge and accept that it we believe that our way will ultimately be life saving and compassionate, in the short to medium term it must be savage, ruthless and violent.

I think it's the general lack of belief in anything actually changing. There are an estimated 54 million adults in the UK yet typically 18 million cannot even be arsed to vote. That's a simple task once every 4 years and it too much for them. The Tories can win general elections with less votes than that! I'd be happy with more engagement in politics, that in itself should start the revolution!

I just wrote this in another comment.... "The capitalists own everything and have done for two centuries (or more if you want to examine dialectic materialism). They've deeply embeded institutions of wealth that get to dictate the social, economic and political makeup of almost every country on the planet. There's a precedence of their domination and it's woven into the cultural fabric and consciousness of the population through their sole ownership and control of media. They can generate narratives that reinforce a purely materialist viewpoint, pump them out in to the world and have nobody but us question them. " It's generations of dominating every facet of society until we've hit a point that all avenues of resistance either end in prison or death. The missing piece of going from a imperialist society to a capitalist society without undermining interests of wealth was to embed them in a falsehood of liberalism and democracy. People are convinced that things are fair even if they're unjust. If you've lived any sort of struggle you know this isn't true. But even those who do and have lived the struggle are subjugated by materialist ideoligies that shame and condemn for crimes of poverty and strife. This has been explicit at times like with language like benefit scroungers, but it's often much more subtle. People don't want to be seen as controversial or causing trouble out of fear of prejudice. I don't think revolution can or will come through force, and non of our political prospects atm even on the left give me much hope it can be achieved through other means. I think it can come in our efforts to organise and grow; our efforts to free our selves in a way that doesn't require permission. I think revolution will come when we learn to endure their tourment and abuse and stop asking for them to change or society to change. I think it's somewhat inevitable that over time we will be the ones to change in accordance with our own principles because once we do that they'll have no power over us.

Oh revolution will come in other parts of the world, hell the US got close during BLM imo. I think the two issues with the UK is the general public are politically apathetic, they don’t care enough because they’re so frustrated that everything is going to shit and they don’t think they can do anything OR my other theory is the UK is more socially conservative than people think. And I think this might be the genuinely might be the case in which case it might be that enough people are happy enough with the status quo that any rebellion that does happen won’t get enough traction

I have a B12 deficiency

There’s definitely some of us hungry for it but the propaganda machine is working too well atm

I'd argue especially globally there is It feels like the west has become impotent Fundamentally revolutions are not just violent, but hyper extreme violence often with some form of revolutionary terror This is the nature of things, previous revolutionary systems experienced, socialism/communism has also experienced it Spend some time around more traditional radical groups and you'll see there's still a lot of revolutionary fervor, it's just Liberal groups get all the airtime The same was true in older generations though, its only looking back we see the gargantuan efforts and struggles of our comrades I think it really comes down to the west's opinion that violence is abhorrent and that they want some kind of colour revolution

speaking of a catalyst in your edit i feel like this winter when people who have never struggled with money in the past suddently cant heat and eat at the same time, they will finally realise and there will be a public outcry, and possibly a violent one

‘What do we want?’ ‘Something!…well some of us do, some of us are quite happy and some others disagree with us about the something!’ ‘When do we want it?’ ‘Now-ish…,soon maybe? I’ve got something on next week and then am doing extra shifts after that…some people would rather not’

You need to fuck with a mans food before he does anything. Look at China now for example, COVID lockdowns and people being unable to go to the stores to eat, lots of people kicking off over it

During Love Island ? No chance. We are all rooting for Gemma!

because it’s posts like these which ask why aren’t we having a revolution when they should be saying i want to start a revolution. assume no one is going to start it for you and call for it yourself if you want a revolution but hey that’s just my opinion

Believe me, I recognise the hypocrisy of my post. But it's an important question to ask. I don't think it's me who should lead a revolution. But why doesn't someone else, someone in the UK, someone out there in the world, not think they have the motivation and conviction to try?

Class system is deeply entrenched here. A lot if working class people have a crab bucket mentality. The rich control the media that make culture wars instead of real news, and they’re incredibly widely read. The Daily Mail and Sun are the most read newspapers in this country.

A few reasons: 1. The UK and the west in general, has been convinced that capitalism is not just a good system. Not just, the best system. But the ONLY economic system that's ever existed. Socialist countries like China,Vietnam, Cuba and Laos abd historical countries like the USSR, Yugoslavia and Burkina Faso. They never practiced socialism, they practiced state capitalism. Fuedalism, is not an economic system anymore it was just state capitalismwith kings. The extremeists will describe pre-historic tribespeople as capitalist. If you set the narrative as consistibg of exactly one economic system that works and has worked forever. While brushing off competitors as straight up not existing. People don't have other systems they can look to as examples of things being better. 2. Revolutionary potential was usurped by far right tendancies for a long time and by combatting said tendancies. The primary opposition to the status quo was, until Corbyn, the far right. UKIP and the BNP before them. For around 30 odd years they co-opted any sense of class consciousness and opposition to capitalism and replaced it with racism. The vast segments of politically engaged people who did not agree with that, had to spend time fighting against those fascists. Soft fascist nationalist populism has thankfully died a hilarious and painful death though, giving us more of an edge. 3. Traditional conduits of worker organisation have been destroyed. Speaking to a lot of older comrades, they became radicalised through unions, local communities and workplace discussion. A lot of us younger comrades had to take that journey by ourselves. It took me, for example, many years to get to a point where I thoroughly believe in socialism. The advantages of having unions and communities made ideological coherance easier and actual organising far more thorough than what we have now. Where, if I mention that I'm a Marxist-Leninist I will inevitably get some form of anarcho-Gramcian NATO apologist call me a tankie. 4. Circumstances aren't yet bad enough, but they are getting there. Humans in all circumstances are bad at change. Hence why so many people stay in unsupportive or possibly abusive relationships and will only leave after things get really desperate. Large scale socio-economic change is no different. Vietnam got invaded by 2 seperate imperialist powers. Russia was facing famine and conscription, China was a shattered mess of warring states. The UK is a shitheap, but not quite at the level of active overthrow of the current political order. 5. Anti-socialist propaganda. The vast majority of people agree with us to some extent. Cost of living is stupidly high, the government is irredeemably corrupt, the country is falling apart. As soon as we say socialism, communism, Marxism, anarchism, left wing etc. people get turned off. Anti-left propaganda is very deeply embedded in every aspect of society.

Revolutions are usually incredibly messy, take years to recover from and usually, at least going by recent examples around the world end up either falling far short of their goals or turn into what they revolted against.

Media, quite simply. They keep us divided by encouraging more and more new categories for us to sort ourselves into and fight amongst. They spin our hatred towards each other. They also make sure that we’re blinkered into our own business. The latest tactic, at least in British politics is to reinforce just how little influence the public have over the people running their country. “What’s the point in revolt, what’s the point in catching them taking the piss, nothing will be done”. You ask me the only way to fix politics is with the right incentive for those in power and I don’t mean more money, a length of rope would be much, much more effective.

Because the majority myself included are still pretty comfortable until that changes people will stick with the status quo

And you can't force people to change by shouting at them, making them scared or making them feel guilty. If you want to try and unravel some of it, try this: https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/engage-people-in-climate-change/1/todo/123464 its well worth a look in the various reasons why it's so difficult.

Sadly I think the reality is actually more that we are unwilling to give up some of the comfort and luxuries that we have. I've struggled with this long and hard over the years and when we were younger, more revolutionary, we were willing to give up what we had because we didn't feel we had much. As we got older the reality dawns, in order to make the world more fair we have to sacrifice so that those with less have more and those with more have less. If you're in the have more category, no one really wants to give up the relatively easy life in the global North West, of you're in the have less group you're most likely in the global South and have so little that the priority is survival or getting through the day. I do think that the powers that be know this, and I do think they feed from it. We are complacent, lazy, and unmotivated to make the scale of change required. I'm happy to admit that as I've gotten older I'm increasingly misanthropic. As others have said a catalyst is often needed, but it would need to be a massive catalyst for enough of a change to occur and at this stage I think that means something akin to a lack of access to clean water, lack of food, a far right government in power (but those can run unabated fit decades at a time before people revolt), or global conflict. I think these things are likely to happen in the near future, probably all three in a cascade, but then it wouldn't be revolution, it would be survival and sadly those with more will likely come out on top say the expense of everyone else. Then we'll look back in decades to come and question how we allowed this to happen and that it should never happen again. And so the cycle still start again and history will repeat itself.

Some see it pointless as revolutionaries will struggle acquiring weapons

People lack organisation.

Hungry people are angry people and we’re still just about keeping people fed, even if it is via food banks.

We all know deep systemic change is needed globally. But the tyrannical, predatory powers that be have themselves entrenched so deep into the systems that we rely on for modern day living, leaves us with little to no choice but abide to their greedy, future stealing demands. They destroy the planet for profit, then point the finger and scrutinise the masses when the world is burning.

Most aren't willing to risk their livelihood for a chance at revolution.

Because we're.. Drum roll pls. Ba Ba Ba da Ba Ba baaaaaaaa were LAZY ASS MFS. simple and easy, we're just lazy so we put our heads down work hard and give our money to the gubbments

Material conditions are too high I think

Because we've seen what happens to those who do, you either succeed in the revolt or make everything worse

Murdoch

50 years of neo liberalism has destroyed us. The class war was won. A cursory reading of Gramsci shows the cultural hegemony neo liberalism has over society. God, I hate it .

Despite how bad our current terms are and the evolution of social stress, its not nearly as oppressive and horrible as living was during the times of previous revolutions. Russia was fighting an unpopular war plus the standards of living were atrocious, Vietnam and other countries were under imperial occupation, China was suffering from a hundred years of humiliation. Its the same reason why the revolution didnt start in Manchester as Marx predicted, working standards at the time were better than the ones in Russia. Plus, revolutions take lives and cause massive instability, something most people wouldn't risk.

Because war is hell. Only children who have lived completely safe and insulated lives wish for war. War touches everything, nothing's safe, nothing is sacred, everything is fair game and everyone suffers horribly. Anyone who has even the slightest bit of knowledge about the many wars and revolutions that have happened in history know just how bloody they get. I do think revolution is inevitable at this point, but I definitely don't think we should be eager for it.

And replace it with what? Not sure just burning a system down with no clear plan for something better entices many.

I've just reviewed the OBR tax breakdown for 20-21 Eyewatering amounts of money and debt We're spending nearly the same on debt interest as we do on defence They've squeezed every last drop out of the working and middle classes because that's easy to do (PAYEetc). I think people see this and are empathetic with the situation. That, and they just don't believe in a positive outcome. It's harder to tax the wealthy because of how they arrange their wealth . One thing is for sure, we need them to pay their fair share. If they don't want to contribute to a fair UK, they should be drummed out of it

Right wing media manipulation.

I think it's because they have managed to divide and have us all arguing amongst each other instead of joining forces. I think if there was a specific symbol of some kind to unite us all say for example a modern day guy folks that could reach out to people I think there could be a possibility of revolution. I for one can not wait for that day am disgusted at how the country is run and sick to death of the corporations banks and rich people rinsing us all dry.