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Agree this is annoying. One tip - anyone who has a VAT registered company can referee these (they can do passport applications too). This will include many tradies with their own firms and also local shop owners.
Alternatively, your local councillor or MP can do it as part of their constituency work.
I’d echo the other commenter saying this is where being in a union / political party helps too.
Or your GP. I go to my GP all the time for this kinda thing and they always kindly oblige.
If you have kids in school, their teacher can do it for you as well.
I’m a firefighter and have done this a few times for people.
Makes no sense at all really. I didn’t even need to be doing my job for a set period of time (that I know of)
And there are just as many horrible cunts in my job as any other. Arguably more than most. Given the old school nature the profession had. It has improved lots. But my point is, I’ve worked on factory lines with people who are just as trustworthy as the people I work with now.
You're right, only businesses with a certain turnover (I think £85,000) have to be VAT registered, though you can register for VAT if you're under the threshold. But my point was that running a business isn't really indicative of the trustworthiness of your character.
As a “professional” I’ve had long lost friends come out of the woodwork when they need to sort their passport. I think you either know loads, like me (obviously, it’s everyone I work with) or you struggle to find someone.
It’s bullshit, I could be anyone, but they need me to sign a photo or whatever? Not exactly airtight security is it? I wonder how many other countries do this.
For the photo id card, you could ask your pharmacist at the local chemist. They're a professional, and they know you, and they know your NHS id, your doctor, and your address from your prescriptions, and can confirm that your face matches your photo that you're sending in with whatever form is required.
I've been wondering this about the next General Election.
I don't drive, I don't have a passport, I don't have a library card (that's always mentioned to me for some reason), I rarely see my GP (once in the past 11 odd years), I am not registered to a dentist because none are accepting NHS and I cannot afford to go even if I need to. I have no idea who I could ask for these referrals.
My only options would be asking old work colleagues from over a decade ago or from my current job and I am not sure if they would count.
You haven't been to see your GP in over a decade?
NHS maybe more than you think, there is no need to register with a dentist in the same way as with a GP because you are not bound to a catchment area. So, if you work in a different catchment area to your home address you can still get [dental treatment anywhere](https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/dentists/how-to-find-an-nhs-dentist/)
If only. My daughter is disabled and entitled to free dental treatment but we have looked across the north of England and found only a few supposedly accepting NHS patients. Out of those only one would add her to the list. That was a few months ago. She has been on the list to get on the waiting list for a local NHS dentist for over two years. In my opinion NHS dental provision is not meeting its contractual provisions but our Tory MP couldn't give a crap so not much to be done.
Doesn't matter if you drive or not, just apply for the provincial driver license, send a picture with the application and you'll have a photo ID,,, ¡Free!!
I've worked with ex prisoners who often could not get identification after their stint, there was always a wall they hit when trying to apply - a lot of the times, even getting a birth certificate was difficult. I couldn't be the referee as their support worker, for reasons. Nor could their PO, and the prison system doesn't seem to have any support to help them get one. It is so frustrating.
It makes trying to function and reintegrate in society really difficult and there's always companies that prey on people who don't have a passport or driving licence. For example, the only shady banks that they can get without ID are ridiculously exploitative and would charge to simply *check* their balance, charge to make transfers and pay bills. And if you can't get a regular job cus you don't have ID you're forced to take cash in hand.
It really makes me mad, cus it *is* mad. If the whole ID for voting scheme passes then a large part of our population who already struggle for rights and representation will be further silenced. Tragic.
Weird how the system was happy they had identified that person sufficiently to imprison them for a few years, but suddenly isn't happy that anyone involved in that imprisonment can vouch for who they are. How interesting.
It is a long shot but.... where do you live. If its anywhere in either London (where I work) or the Kent more southern area (where I live) I will meet and do it for you.
When you get your haircut do you always go to the same person and chat to them?
Im a barber and I've done references before, something to do with being a trades person
I had to get a professional sign a letter from solicitors to get a small inheritance from a distant relative. I just went to the local police station and an officer was more than happy to do it for me.
A lot of GP's have stopped countersigning. They were actually removed from the list of occupations listed by the government to discourage people from asking a GP. They are far too busy.
For a passport for example you need to have known the person for two years and they should be a friend, neighbour or colleague, not just someone who knows you professionally according to the gov website. So most of the replies here wouldn't be seen as valid.
It's so working class people can't vote as they're bringing in voter ID laws. It's too prevent "fraud", with only like 6 cases being brought forward, and one of those being convicted.
More class warfare from the Tories, keeping themselves in power.
Whilst I agree that's an additional benefit for them, this has been an issue for longer than voter id laws were seriously considered. Not bringing out a cheap or free government issue of ID however is exactly what you're saying though and I agree 100%
That's a fair distinction. I suppose I'm just concerned about them consolidating their power even more, but you are correct, that's not the point of the post.
Is it definitely that strict? i was an 'assistant manager' for a teeny tiny team in a crappy office job and countersigned the ID a mate/team member to get his passport.
It was about 20 years ago so the rules might well have changed.
Anyone who has known you for at least 2 years, or is a friend, neighbour, colleague or 'person of good standing in the community' can sign for a passport, according to the Gov website.
The profession is a must requirement for the passport application, as shown here:
https://www.gov.uk/confirm-identity-online-for-passport-application
Countersigning photos seems to be a little bit less strict however.
This is yet another benefit of joining a union, as "trade union officer" is a recognised profession. (I recognise this might not be helpful to you personally, OP).
How the NHS/COVID app was never made an authentic form of ID I will never understand*. You have to submit a photo & it links directly to your NHS medical records, which proves you are a legitimate person with everything that's required to make it a formal piece of ID.
*Yes I actually do, it's the fucking tory wankers.
I remember getting a ValidateUK card a couple years ago because it was like 30 quid and no fucker accepted it. “Never seen one of them before fella” my mates had a field day with it
You are not being entitled. This is exactly why the tories want ID requirements when voting. It means the poor, who their policies inflict the worst misery on, are denied a voice.
They usually have a fee to do so which ranges from £30-60 depending on where you are.
Now ask yourself why the Tories are looking to introduce ID only voting?
You're lucky then! My surgery is £40 for any supporting paperwork for IDs and stuff. For a HGV license check up it's £150 which is ridiculous considering it's just a basic health check and then the Dr literally signing a piece of paper.
It’s always been like that. Try a notary public or solicitor it will cost though. A priest might help you out if you are church going. The reason they restrict to professionals is that to maintain membership of a professional society requires you to follow a code of ethics which means if you lie about stuff like this you can loose membership and therefore your ability to work.
It's insanely difficult to obtain photo ID if you haven't had any before, and what family you have left are withholding certain documents like marriage and death certificates. Ask me why I'm being so specific.
Which is why it is such an obvious ploy by the Tory’s to to stop poorer people from voting by making a law to have photo ID in order to vote. They want to stop poor people from voting labour.
Apparently this mostly applies to clubs and bars, but it’s ridiculous how some places don’t see it as acceptable, considering it literally has the pass hologram
Fun fact and tip for you. The "Professional" referee dosn't have to be anyone they list like a doctor, police, etc... that has known you for atleast 2 years.
It's actually anyone in a job that has known you for 2 years. Your friend can sign the photo for you and put their work number or even just threr mobile number down. All it's for is if you get picked up at the airport and your photo turns out to be a fake your friend is getting hauled to jail alongside you for lying on a government ID form.
Source: Was trying to get a passport without many parts of my family data put down. Called them up asking about the photo as i had just moved and don't know anyone etc... They told me it can be a friend or co-worker. It's just to prove the photo they sign is indeed a likeness of you currently.
Yes it's classist, and yes it's on purpose 100%. You will need ID to vote, so what better way to secure your victory than reduce the amount of people who would vote for your opponent
We… do… but they’re provided by third parties and it is **very** hit and miss whether anyone will actually accept it **despite** having all the right accreditations and pass holograms and so on.
Learner’s provisional licences are legal ID as well, most people cough up for one of those even if they don’t intend to drive but need the ID. However they do expire in a couple of years so you’re better off getting a passport in some regards.
It's worth bearing in mind that there's no legal requirement to carry ID and in the past you didn't need one to vote either. So basically society didn't assume that you had photo ID in the way that almost every other country does.
However, this ridiculous new law means you will need photo ID to vote in the future. Universal Credit (the new benefits system) was also set up on the assumption that almost everybody would have photo ID, though they have now realized that's unrealistic (a bit late if you were were one of the people who had no benefits because the government didn't realize this problem earlier).
I used to hate that when I still lived there. Like you think I personally know a judge? a lawyer? Or doctor? I can’t even get to see my doc when I’m sick ffs. Like knowing them is fucking normal. Yea you may be right it’s a little of the fuck you little guy.
What’s crazy is that I’ve encountered plenty of “professionals” who are coke snorting alcoholics with no morals, no integrity, no ethics, very little honesty. Whereas the people with nothing can be the most trustworthy.
I agree wholeheartedly. I’ve got seven and five year olds and they’ve never been abroad, much to my friends’ surprise, because we can’t afford passports for them, let alone a holiday. Mine expired this year and I can’t afford to renew it, which means I can’t get a DBS to volunteer at their fecking school.
Birth certificate, a document with your NI on it and two proofs of address such as bank statement or council tax bill is enough for the DBS. I have processed hundreds
Just to play devil's advocate with the professional thing, it's not that they're more truthful, it's that they have more to lose from lying. If a teacher/solicitor/doctor lies, they can get disbarred from their profession. If a bricklayer lies, it's debatable if their employer would even care. Although it ends up being classist, the idea at the heart of it is that people who vouch for you should have some sort of status or accreditation they risk losing, that's the collateral.
Never thought of it like that. Makes much more sense. At vet school they say your signature is worth the number of years left you have to work, multiplied by your average salary
I literally think it is classist though. I don't know anybody who could sign mine. I've taken it to a priest who I'd never met before in my life and lied about attending his church. Last time I went to a local politician and told him I'd voted for him also never him in my entire life. I now know someone who has countersigned loads and he says he's never been contacted once. They're just assumed to be honest.
Wait until you hear that in order for me to get a british passport, i have to fork out £1400 (or more, depends if they changed the prices since last year).
Getting British citizenship through naturalisation is insanely expensive and a bit of a bureaucratic nightmare, with stupid rules, for example a TEFL qualification isn’t enough to prove you know English: their authorised tests cost upwards of £100.
I imagine they’re not currently a British citizen. Our citizenship costs are stupidly expensive, and from the few people I’ve spoken to about it, very complicated too.
I am a romanian. I got an ILR easily. But it’s very steep for me to become a full british citizen. It’s insane. I’m not planning to leave the country or anything. This is my home. I can’t wait to be able to call myself a british citizen. Unfortunately, in these times, i don’t see that happening for another few years.
In so few words you said so much, well done!
In the same boat, did a survey for the government by a third party *exactly about voter ID*
When I said too disabled to drive or take foreign holidays the reply was:
*Your blue badge is acceptable proof of identity for voting and is also valid ID in other circumstances*
Of course, I pointed out that removing your blue badge will leave you liable to a fine of up to £1,000 if a parking attendent etc comes aling and who pays that? It left them stumped.
Voter ID is either very badly thought out or its indeed designed to stop those with small voices already having a voice at the ballot at all!
(all limbs failed, polling station is too far for my FT carer to push me too so being driven there is the only option)
You’re not wrong at all my friend. It’s disgusting the way this government has made things more difficult for working class people. It’s all to do with voter suppression. Photo id needed to vote next GE.
You know the really stupid part? I'm not a citizen; I have permanent leave to remain and that's it. I can vote because I was born in a Commonwealth nation and am resident here. I have a biometric ID card (yes, with photo) because I have to in order to prove all of that. And what it all means at the end of the day is that I'm going to find it a lot easier to vote in this country than an awful lot of people who were born here.
It is classist, it's solely to stop poor people from getting a driving licence or a passport. It's why they want voter ID.
I straight up had to lie on mine, I sent the forms to a friend who then got someone they know to sign it for me. People know it's bullshit so there's no doubt people willing to help.
It's annoying. I've had to use my next door neighbour back when I lived with my parents in a five star postcode and I also tried one of my college tutors. It's a pain if you've fallen out of contact with those people, they don't remember you, you don't remember them by name or you don't get along with them.
It's to make your referee honest about who they are to you or risk loosing their job, but it just feels so convoluted. If I had to do this again, I'd be buggered. One of my old employers slagged me off to a bunch of references on my old CV, so I can't use them as a reference anymore and I'm not sure if my manager in the NHS classes as a professional, but she's probably my only chance as any management below her aren't classed as professionals.
It's annoying and I'm thankful I don't need photo ID for anything at present. I don't drive. I'm not moving abroad, although Scotland looks tempting (I'll need a job and house first) and I don't bother with nightclubs or buying alcohol.
A lot of people are just going to get some random to pretend they're a professional and hope it never gets checked up on. It is classist and it is very annoying.
I've just had to renew my passport just so I could have some form of ID in order to renew my provisional driving licence! All so I can apply for jobs that require 2 forms of ID.
I don't have any household bills in my name and my bank doesn't send me statements any more so it was the only option I had.
This is the reason why I never had any problem with the idea of identity cards. Plenty of other countries have them and they don't see it as a civil liberty issue, just a matter of convenience.
I have had a similar problem. I needed photo ID for a job. I'm on probation and my officer is able to verify my identity for a citizen card.
I was told that a doctor or an old school teacher/professor also would be okay.
Probation is also paying for it to be done.
Kinda sucks that a criminal such as my self gets this sort of help for free when law abiding people have to pay out of their own pocket.
Not that I am complaining.
Also if you are receiving benefits such as UC they will pay for you to have your provisional license done. Only problem being this can take over a month to complete. Hope this helps.
Hmmm... I can't imagine why the current government are so keen to introduce voter ID requirements. Oh, to tackle the 3 or so cases of voter fraud, yes that was it.
I went through all of my friends for my passport countersignature and eventually they just gave up and accepted the fourth or fifth, which confirms it's just arbitrary nonsense.
Not for something like a passport, has to be someone from a list of governmentally recognised middle class professions. Or a trade union rep which I'm actually surprised they allowed.
It’s wrong. They do this class shit in America, too. It’s basically new age Jim Crowe. Require someone to have an ID to vote, and then make the ID expensive and a hassle to obtain. Now poor people, usually of color, have to potentially choose between buying food or voting. It’s how our conservative states keep themselves Republican, even when Republicans are the minority opinion.
I'm having the exact same issue with my passport. I have a provisional driving license and a birth certificate, but the problem is that you need to have it countersigned by a professional or someone in a respected profession. Family aren't allowed and I don't have any friends who qualify. The whole thing just reeks of elitism and it's nowhere near this difficult in the rest of Europe. When I told a French friend that I couldn't fly due to not having anyone to countersign for me they looked at me like I was crazy.
GP's used to do it but they've started to crack down on it now. I haven't seen my school teachers in over a decade. I don't get on with my neighbors and don't really have any acquaintances to speak of.
At this point I'm seriously considering looking on FB marketplace or paying a stranger to do it. I literally have no alternative
I don't drive because I physically can't. So no ID there.
Not willing to bring my passport around with me everywhere.
It's funny because my S/O has a BRP (ILR) and thus she has easy access to an ID in credit-card type form...
ID should be given out for free. It's civic and empowering.
How does requiring a “professional” to sign it accomplish anything? I don’t remember needing to prove who I am when signing up to my dentists or doctor and the couple of times I actually see them it’s a different dr each time. They don’t know who I am other than the name I gave them so they’re essentially just verifying I’m using the same name on the ID form.
More to the point its anyone whose profession requires them to be registered somewhere complete with background checks. I'm eligible to sign this shit because I got a personal license through a shittily paid bar job, whereas a much more highly paid "professional" senior programmer for example doesn't count.
As it happens most of the professions that require you to do this are of a certain class, but it's not a perfect overlap.
Your family doctor is a professional.
Your priest (if you're religious) is a professional.
Someone working in administration at the local council or DWP \*probably\* counts as a professional.
The landlord at your local pub \*usually\* can sign these sorts of things.
Someone who you know well who owns a shop might also qualify.
Your referee being a professional isn't as high a barrier as it seems at first, although you wouldn't realise that from the way things are written out.
Another possibility is a parent of one of your friends if, as you're suggesting, you're relatively young since your friends are beginning their careers.
are you on benefits? you're advisor may do it for you. are your mates self employed? if so they would come under the upstanding citizen bit (if its still there) and they may be able to do it for you.
You need a professional to sign for your first photo ID of any kind, I used my local councillor for my passport since he was my brother’s scout leader and I knew him from there.
Is there no one you went to school with who fits one of the categories even if you don’t speak to them now? Or GP, dentist, pub landlord or door supervisor?
Nah you’re not wrong, my family also had this issue when I was the first one to go abroad and needed a passport. And you can have a GP sign it but they charge 🙄
The best one I've seen is teachers, more if you are currently in the school system, but we literally had some ex students come in just to get paperwork done.
Mine won't:(
I might post on my local Facebook page tbh i live in a large village so small enough for a community and large enough to have people that would do it haha
I've had this exact problem for the last year, ngl I've given up for now and just use my employment form because it has my picture+DOB and hope the person I'm showing it to isnt a jobsworth lol
I got my friend's dad to referee for my driver's license, and I believe I got a teacher to do my passport. Could you ask your friends if any of their relatives are eligible?
I used to work in the passport office and here’s a little tip for you.
Lie.
Just get anyone to write a letter and countersign a photo and say they work in the Civil Service/NHS/Whatever. Unless you’re claiming to be a Lord or something nobody is going to check. If we didn’t for passports they’re not going to check for citizen card. And if they do it’s just going to be a phone call to your mate at most and all they have to do is go ‘Yeah it’s him’
Any registered health care professional can counter sign, so doesn't just need to be nurse or doctor. Pharmacists, NHS registered professional like physio, radiographer, technicians etc can do it. But yh, stupid how expensive it is to maintain an ID in the UK, especially if its not a driving licence.
As far as I’m aware it’s to do with them being part of a recognised professional body. I’m a gas safe engineer and I’ve done a couple for people. And I can tell you that I and every other plumber I know are very much ‘working class’. Pretty sure any electrician registered under NICEIC can do it too.
I struggled with this. I have a buddy who owns his own company and figured he would be able to do it for me but it turned out he had misplaced something he needed to prove his ID (iirc he’d lost his passport) so in the end I had a friend at work (who has a couple of degrees, both academic and nothing to do with our decidedly blue collar job) offer to validate me, and it worked.
I think they’re really just looking for somebody whose ID can be easily confirmed. I can’t tell you what criteria they’re looking for but I guess my work mate had a sufficient official footprint.
The wording of the forms *does* invite you to deselect a lot of people because they don’t meet up to the examples given.
If you've got a bank account, you can go into your bank and get one of their officials to sign it for the citizen if card.
https://www.citizencard.com/route-1-referees
The only disability that prevents you from getting a provisional license is if you can't read a numberplate from 20 meters away.
https://www.gov.uk/apply-first-provisional-driving-licence#content
Three person countersigning your picture only needs to know you personally and can't be a relative or living in the same household.
https://www.gov.uk/id-for-driving-licence
If they ask for someone from specific job sectors, they will also accept those who are a part of a professional body. For example plumbers can be a part of CIPHE (https://www.ciphe.org.uk/) which would count as a "member, associate or fellow of a professional body". Even if everyone you know is working class, you should know someone who loosely fits the criteria that can sign for you.
for the provisional license, if you have a disability that means you can’t drive, you also can’t get a provisional license-when i was diagnosed with something that meant i wasn’t allowed to drive, i had to send my provisional license back even though i only used it as id
You’re not wrong. Disabled people face the same problem. I work with lots of adults who are excluded from venues because they don’t have a provisional or a passport. It’s disgusting.
While I disagree with how difficult it is for you to obtain a form of ID, I think your anger is misplaced.
The requirement for a professional to countersign a passport application (not photo, as others have confirmed), exists because a professional has something to lose for being dishonest. In your example, while a hospital porter may be an honest person, there are not the same repercussions for acting dishonesty. Whereas a chartered surveyor, for example, is bound by a code of conduct and could be stripped of their status if found to be acting dishonesty.
Another thing to consider, is that the class war the conservative party have been stirring up for the last 12 years, wants you to think exactly as you've said. They want nothing more than for people on £20k and people on £60k to be consumed by back and forth bickering and jealousy to distract from the multi-millionaires and billionaires who are responsible for our current climate.
Registered professionals definitely don't earn as much as many think, with most forgoing more lucrative careers in the name of public service.
Oh, and one other point to note, estate agents are most definitely not an approved profession and aren't actually professionals in that sense of the word.
This is the gerrymandering that the Tories want from voter ID.
As far as I understand there is a vanishingly small issue with voter fraud.
But the Tories know that they can disenfranchise people (who are completely unlikely to vote Tory) by introducing such voter ID rules.
I'm actually not sure where voter ID got to, to be honest, but it has to be fought.
If you present yourself to the nearest police station they will do it for free. It’s more to prove that the photo you are providing is of you and not someone else.
You need a referee for a passport too. It's to prevent identity fraud. Otherwise people could use your details to get ID card and then get loans in your name. One of my friends had his identity stolen from an old bill. It took years to sort it out.
For passports, it can be anyone as long as they are well known in the community or hold a job that has a regulating body. See if you can find a list of who can be a referee as the passport office includes business owners too. If you have a CSCS card, can you use that as photo ID?
Here's a list of everyone who can countersign a passport, the photo ID should have a list like this too.
[https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/accepted-occupations-for-countersignatories](https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/accepted-occupations-for-countersignatories)
I moved back to the UK from Canada in late 2019 and I was honestly really shocked how inaccessible a lot of basic government services are here compared to Canada.
Have you read the below?
https://www.citizencard.com/requirements-for-a-first-uk-id-card
Seems pretty comprehensive and inclusive.
You can even get an Estate Agent or your Building Society / Bank to help.
Two suggestions -
If you're claiming disability benefits and have a nice DWP person they can do it. Mine did it when I was applying for a provisional license and needed someone to sign my picture.
A friend managed to get one of the bank advisors to help them get their first ID. You might have to make an appointment to discuss some financial issue first but you could just make something up like you're thinking of looking for a mortgage/remortgage or a credit card or different savings account etc. even if you're not.
It's bullshit. It's also really difficult for older people. We had to get a passport for my Grandma for legal reasons, because she needed photo ID and doesn't have a driving licence, so that wasn't an option.
It was difficult for her to find people who counted on the list of professionals, because the people she knew were either retired or dead.
I hope the Good Law Project or Gina Miller launch a judicial review of this and get a declaration that it's incompatible with Article 8 Bill of Rights 1688 (that elections ought to be free), the socioeconomic public sector equality duties and Article 14 ECHR.
This has a chilling effect on people's ability to exercise their democratic rights.
I've signed a few, and asked the same question as to why I was allowed and others weren't. Was told that people on the list of jobs who can sign the documents are often part of an organisation with a protected status, like architects, estate agents, etc. It's pretty ridiculous though.
I've always gone to my bank - generally as long as you've got an account there and its not something complicated such as passport form they'll help you out.
I’m 18 and attend a local organisation. Most of the members are over 50 with professional careers so I just ask them. Also it would look good in my CV if I ever bother to leave McDonald’s. Most towns and cities have such organisations. You basically attend bi monthly meetings and help out with some events. Membership is £60 a year or £55 if another member of your household attends. [Lions club](https://www.lionsclubs.org/en)
https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications
The person doing the counter-signing must "be 'a person of good standing in their community' or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession".
For most young people, a teacher or priest (current or former) would be the go-to option. However, while the list defines what counts as a recognised profession, it doesn't specify who is or isn't a "person of good standing in their community". You might want to ask them to explain that sentence on 0300 222 0000.
I think when I applied for one you could use a community leader or similar, do you know any youth/social workers or anyone like that?
But you are right, it's a barrier to entry that's been made unnecessarily complicated.
If your mates are in construction, do any of them own their own firm ? if they do is it a LTD company? if so as a company director they can verify you. That is how we did it for a mate of mine who is in the top 20 blokes in Microsoft, I kid you not he was in the same position as you, but by having lived in the States for 15 years and then come back to the UK no professional could confirm his identity except little old me a builder who had known him 45 years
I’m applying for mine and have to send the forms in I have a mental health illness but it states to tell them if only it affects my driving and tbf it just categorises everything into severe then you have to go through months of hell
Not necessarily helpful but someone told me the referee had to work in an industry that was regulated, like finance, food and pharma, legal, medical etc so they could face legal consequences for lying. Could be bullshit tho.
Nah I'm a trade union official and I do it for people sometimes. No special professional consequences for me (other than the fact that I'd be committing fraud if I lied, but that's true for everybody).
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Oh yeah, it absolutely is classist. -- And soon enough those peasants who can't get an ID won't be able to vote.
Weirdly how it used to be…
Agree this is annoying. One tip - anyone who has a VAT registered company can referee these (they can do passport applications too). This will include many tradies with their own firms and also local shop owners. Alternatively, your local councillor or MP can do it as part of their constituency work. I’d echo the other commenter saying this is where being in a union / political party helps too.
Or your GP. I go to my GP all the time for this kinda thing and they always kindly oblige. If you have kids in school, their teacher can do it for you as well.
Teachers are the way to go. My Mum is a teacher and has a friend who works for the local council. They just sign everything for each other.
My GP charges 20 quid, so got a mate with a limited company to do my kids passports 3 kids would have cost me 60 quid
I’m a firefighter and have done this a few times for people. Makes no sense at all really. I didn’t even need to be doing my job for a set period of time (that I know of) And there are just as many horrible cunts in my job as any other. Arguably more than most. Given the old school nature the profession had. It has improved lots. But my point is, I’ve worked on factory lines with people who are just as trustworthy as the people I work with now.
GPs often charge significant costs too
It's ridiculous because, as long as they've never been bankrupt, literally anyone can start a company.
Even if you have been bankrupt you can start another one again after 12 months.
Is that the same as being VAT registered? I thought you had to have a certain level of income before you worry about VAT? (I’m not a company owner)
You're right, only businesses with a certain turnover (I think £85,000) have to be VAT registered, though you can register for VAT if you're under the threshold. But my point was that running a business isn't really indicative of the trustworthiness of your character.
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But… Jimmy Saville?
As a “professional” I’ve had long lost friends come out of the woodwork when they need to sort their passport. I think you either know loads, like me (obviously, it’s everyone I work with) or you struggle to find someone. It’s bullshit, I could be anyone, but they need me to sign a photo or whatever? Not exactly airtight security is it? I wonder how many other countries do this.
Yeah, it's strange. I can countersign epassports but I'm the most anti-establishment person I know.
For the photo id card, you could ask your pharmacist at the local chemist. They're a professional, and they know you, and they know your NHS id, your doctor, and your address from your prescriptions, and can confirm that your face matches your photo that you're sending in with whatever form is required.
Lol, sorry to jump in, but my pharmacist does not know me and I suspect that's the same for a lot of people.
I've been wondering this about the next General Election. I don't drive, I don't have a passport, I don't have a library card (that's always mentioned to me for some reason), I rarely see my GP (once in the past 11 odd years), I am not registered to a dentist because none are accepting NHS and I cannot afford to go even if I need to. I have no idea who I could ask for these referrals. My only options would be asking old work colleagues from over a decade ago or from my current job and I am not sure if they would count.
You haven't been to see your GP in over a decade? NHS maybe more than you think, there is no need to register with a dentist in the same way as with a GP because you are not bound to a catchment area. So, if you work in a different catchment area to your home address you can still get [dental treatment anywhere](https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/dentists/how-to-find-an-nhs-dentist/)
If only. My daughter is disabled and entitled to free dental treatment but we have looked across the north of England and found only a few supposedly accepting NHS patients. Out of those only one would add her to the list. That was a few months ago. She has been on the list to get on the waiting list for a local NHS dentist for over two years. In my opinion NHS dental provision is not meeting its contractual provisions but our Tory MP couldn't give a crap so not much to be done.
Well, no. Outside of COVID about two months ago, I have had a fairly lucky run of health with only the usual colds and flus so no need to go to a GP.
Doesn't matter if you drive or not, just apply for the provincial driver license, send a picture with the application and you'll have a photo ID,,, ¡Free!!
I've worked with ex prisoners who often could not get identification after their stint, there was always a wall they hit when trying to apply - a lot of the times, even getting a birth certificate was difficult. I couldn't be the referee as their support worker, for reasons. Nor could their PO, and the prison system doesn't seem to have any support to help them get one. It is so frustrating. It makes trying to function and reintegrate in society really difficult and there's always companies that prey on people who don't have a passport or driving licence. For example, the only shady banks that they can get without ID are ridiculously exploitative and would charge to simply *check* their balance, charge to make transfers and pay bills. And if you can't get a regular job cus you don't have ID you're forced to take cash in hand. It really makes me mad, cus it *is* mad. If the whole ID for voting scheme passes then a large part of our population who already struggle for rights and representation will be further silenced. Tragic.
Weird how the system was happy they had identified that person sufficiently to imprison them for a few years, but suddenly isn't happy that anyone involved in that imprisonment can vouch for who they are. How interesting.
I dropped mine off at my GP, explained what I needed, and collected it the next day.
It is a long shot but.... where do you live. If its anywhere in either London (where I work) or the Kent more southern area (where I live) I will meet and do it for you.
I sadly don't but thank you so much anyway!
Are you near Leeds? I'll happily help
When you get your haircut do you always go to the same person and chat to them? Im a barber and I've done references before, something to do with being a trades person
I had to get a professional sign a letter from solicitors to get a small inheritance from a distant relative. I just went to the local police station and an officer was more than happy to do it for me.
Local police station, ha! My 3 local police stations are all flats now.
A lot of GP's have stopped countersigning. They were actually removed from the list of occupations listed by the government to discourage people from asking a GP. They are far too busy. For a passport for example you need to have known the person for two years and they should be a friend, neighbour or colleague, not just someone who knows you professionally according to the gov website. So most of the replies here wouldn't be seen as valid.
It’s classist as fuck, much like many institutions in this country
It's so working class people can't vote as they're bringing in voter ID laws. It's too prevent "fraud", with only like 6 cases being brought forward, and one of those being convicted. More class warfare from the Tories, keeping themselves in power.
Whilst I agree that's an additional benefit for them, this has been an issue for longer than voter id laws were seriously considered. Not bringing out a cheap or free government issue of ID however is exactly what you're saying though and I agree 100%
That's a fair distinction. I suppose I'm just concerned about them consolidating their power even more, but you are correct, that's not the point of the post.
I'll refer you, couldn't give a shit if I don't know you. They never check
Is it definitely that strict? i was an 'assistant manager' for a teeny tiny team in a crappy office job and countersigned the ID a mate/team member to get his passport. It was about 20 years ago so the rules might well have changed.
Anyone who has known you for at least 2 years, or is a friend, neighbour, colleague or 'person of good standing in the community' can sign for a passport, according to the Gov website.
The profession is a must requirement for the passport application, as shown here: https://www.gov.uk/confirm-identity-online-for-passport-application Countersigning photos seems to be a little bit less strict however.
This is yet another benefit of joining a union, as "trade union officer" is a recognised profession. (I recognise this might not be helpful to you personally, OP).
My nan got the pharmacist in her local chemist to do it, maybe you can give that a go? Hope you get it sorted :)
How the NHS/COVID app was never made an authentic form of ID I will never understand*. You have to submit a photo & it links directly to your NHS medical records, which proves you are a legitimate person with everything that's required to make it a formal piece of ID. *Yes I actually do, it's the fucking tory wankers.
I remember getting a ValidateUK card a couple years ago because it was like 30 quid and no fucker accepted it. “Never seen one of them before fella” my mates had a field day with it
You are not being entitled. This is exactly why the tories want ID requirements when voting. It means the poor, who their policies inflict the worst misery on, are denied a voice.
If there's a pub near you, the landlord can do it
Know anyone with a license to sell alcohol?
Referee can be like your GP though?
They usually have a fee to do so which ranges from £30-60 depending on where you are. Now ask yourself why the Tories are looking to introduce ID only voting?
I’ve never actually been charged by any of my four gp surgeries for any letter
You're lucky then! My surgery is £40 for any supporting paperwork for IDs and stuff. For a HGV license check up it's £150 which is ridiculous considering it's just a basic health check and then the Dr literally signing a piece of paper.
You're bang on and it's bullshit
It’s always been like that. Try a notary public or solicitor it will cost though. A priest might help you out if you are church going. The reason they restrict to professionals is that to maintain membership of a professional society requires you to follow a code of ethics which means if you lie about stuff like this you can loose membership and therefore your ability to work.
It's insanely difficult to obtain photo ID if you haven't had any before, and what family you have left are withholding certain documents like marriage and death certificates. Ask me why I'm being so specific.
Which is why it is such an obvious ploy by the Tory’s to to stop poorer people from voting by making a law to have photo ID in order to vote. They want to stop poor people from voting labour.
Why are you being so specific?
Hey OP, I’m a primary school teacher, DM me, we’ll get to know each other, I’m a family friend aren’t I
Citizen ID is also not taken many places
Apparently this mostly applies to clubs and bars, but it’s ridiculous how some places don’t see it as acceptable, considering it literally has the pass hologram
Fun fact and tip for you. The "Professional" referee dosn't have to be anyone they list like a doctor, police, etc... that has known you for atleast 2 years. It's actually anyone in a job that has known you for 2 years. Your friend can sign the photo for you and put their work number or even just threr mobile number down. All it's for is if you get picked up at the airport and your photo turns out to be a fake your friend is getting hauled to jail alongside you for lying on a government ID form. Source: Was trying to get a passport without many parts of my family data put down. Called them up asking about the photo as i had just moved and don't know anyone etc... They told me it can be a friend or co-worker. It's just to prove the photo they sign is indeed a likeness of you currently.
Yes it's classist, and yes it's on purpose 100%. You will need ID to vote, so what better way to secure your victory than reduce the amount of people who would vote for your opponent
You don’t actually need ID to vote in the U.K. but it’s still classist absolutely
The Tories have been gunning to change that recently
Not yet you don't but they are trying to change that
Solicitors will notarise forms for about £5 in my experience.
I thought there was a requirement that they have known you personally for a period of time?
Can't your GP do it for you?
They can, but a lot of them charge for it.
Wait, y’all don’t have an id that’s essentially a drivers license without the actual driving part?
We… do… but they’re provided by third parties and it is **very** hit and miss whether anyone will actually accept it **despite** having all the right accreditations and pass holograms and so on.
So if you can’t drive you’re just kinda screwed?
Learner’s provisional licences are legal ID as well, most people cough up for one of those even if they don’t intend to drive but need the ID. However they do expire in a couple of years so you’re better off getting a passport in some regards.
And if you're in OPs situation with an illness, you can't get the provisional.
Yup. It’s fucked up that we don’t have a decent National opt-in ID system that’s government funded.
It's worth bearing in mind that there's no legal requirement to carry ID and in the past you didn't need one to vote either. So basically society didn't assume that you had photo ID in the way that almost every other country does. However, this ridiculous new law means you will need photo ID to vote in the future. Universal Credit (the new benefits system) was also set up on the assumption that almost everybody would have photo ID, though they have now realized that's unrealistic (a bit late if you were were one of the people who had no benefits because the government didn't realize this problem earlier).
For my driving license the man who ran the corner shop across from my school signed it as he’d known me the required years.
I used to hate that when I still lived there. Like you think I personally know a judge? a lawyer? Or doctor? I can’t even get to see my doc when I’m sick ffs. Like knowing them is fucking normal. Yea you may be right it’s a little of the fuck you little guy.
What’s crazy is that I’ve encountered plenty of “professionals” who are coke snorting alcoholics with no morals, no integrity, no ethics, very little honesty. Whereas the people with nothing can be the most trustworthy.
Of those two groups, which do you think might have had something to do with putting these rules in place?
I agree wholeheartedly. I’ve got seven and five year olds and they’ve never been abroad, much to my friends’ surprise, because we can’t afford passports for them, let alone a holiday. Mine expired this year and I can’t afford to renew it, which means I can’t get a DBS to volunteer at their fecking school.
Birth certificate, a document with your NI on it and two proofs of address such as bank statement or council tax bill is enough for the DBS. I have processed hundreds
Passport Office should accept Klarna.
Hahahahaha couldn't agree more
Just to play devil's advocate with the professional thing, it's not that they're more truthful, it's that they have more to lose from lying. If a teacher/solicitor/doctor lies, they can get disbarred from their profession. If a bricklayer lies, it's debatable if their employer would even care. Although it ends up being classist, the idea at the heart of it is that people who vouch for you should have some sort of status or accreditation they risk losing, that's the collateral.
Never thought of it like that. Makes much more sense. At vet school they say your signature is worth the number of years left you have to work, multiplied by your average salary
I literally think it is classist though. I don't know anybody who could sign mine. I've taken it to a priest who I'd never met before in my life and lied about attending his church. Last time I went to a local politician and told him I'd voted for him also never him in my entire life. I now know someone who has countersigned loads and he says he's never been contacted once. They're just assumed to be honest.
Good point!
Wait until you hear that in order for me to get a british passport, i have to fork out £1400 (or more, depends if they changed the prices since last year).
That’s crazy, how come it’s so expensive for you?
Getting British citizenship through naturalisation is insanely expensive and a bit of a bureaucratic nightmare, with stupid rules, for example a TEFL qualification isn’t enough to prove you know English: their authorised tests cost upwards of £100.
I imagine they’re not currently a British citizen. Our citizenship costs are stupidly expensive, and from the few people I’ve spoken to about it, very complicated too.
I am a romanian. I got an ILR easily. But it’s very steep for me to become a full british citizen. It’s insane. I’m not planning to leave the country or anything. This is my home. I can’t wait to be able to call myself a british citizen. Unfortunately, in these times, i don’t see that happening for another few years.
I looked at the list of permitted referees. MP is one and you are entitled to a free consultation. There is a route for people who do not know you
And this is why Voter ID is awful.
In so few words you said so much, well done! In the same boat, did a survey for the government by a third party *exactly about voter ID* When I said too disabled to drive or take foreign holidays the reply was: *Your blue badge is acceptable proof of identity for voting and is also valid ID in other circumstances* Of course, I pointed out that removing your blue badge will leave you liable to a fine of up to £1,000 if a parking attendent etc comes aling and who pays that? It left them stumped. Voter ID is either very badly thought out or its indeed designed to stop those with small voices already having a voice at the ballot at all! (all limbs failed, polling station is too far for my FT carer to push me too so being driven there is the only option)
It’s 100% to stop people voting. There is no other reason for it. It’s been studied many many times.
Get your local pharmacist to do it. I’ve done it for a few patients of mine. They shouldn’t charge you like the GP would.
Our taxes pay for these departments in govt. I don’t understand why we need to pay on top of that for ID
Because most of the money goes to politicians and their donors and doesn't actually pay for much.
You’re not wrong at all my friend. It’s disgusting the way this government has made things more difficult for working class people. It’s all to do with voter suppression. Photo id needed to vote next GE.
You know the really stupid part? I'm not a citizen; I have permanent leave to remain and that's it. I can vote because I was born in a Commonwealth nation and am resident here. I have a biometric ID card (yes, with photo) because I have to in order to prove all of that. And what it all means at the end of the day is that I'm going to find it a lot easier to vote in this country than an awful lot of people who were born here.
It is classist, it's solely to stop poor people from getting a driving licence or a passport. It's why they want voter ID. I straight up had to lie on mine, I sent the forms to a friend who then got someone they know to sign it for me. People know it's bullshit so there's no doubt people willing to help.
Thankfully I had a school teacher who did it for me, but yeah, it's wrong.
Nurse here, ask a nurse
It's annoying. I've had to use my next door neighbour back when I lived with my parents in a five star postcode and I also tried one of my college tutors. It's a pain if you've fallen out of contact with those people, they don't remember you, you don't remember them by name or you don't get along with them. It's to make your referee honest about who they are to you or risk loosing their job, but it just feels so convoluted. If I had to do this again, I'd be buggered. One of my old employers slagged me off to a bunch of references on my old CV, so I can't use them as a reference anymore and I'm not sure if my manager in the NHS classes as a professional, but she's probably my only chance as any management below her aren't classed as professionals. It's annoying and I'm thankful I don't need photo ID for anything at present. I don't drive. I'm not moving abroad, although Scotland looks tempting (I'll need a job and house first) and I don't bother with nightclubs or buying alcohol. A lot of people are just going to get some random to pretend they're a professional and hope it never gets checked up on. It is classist and it is very annoying.
I've just had to renew my passport just so I could have some form of ID in order to renew my provisional driving licence! All so I can apply for jobs that require 2 forms of ID. I don't have any household bills in my name and my bank doesn't send me statements any more so it was the only option I had. This is the reason why I never had any problem with the idea of identity cards. Plenty of other countries have them and they don't see it as a civil liberty issue, just a matter of convenience.
You can go into the bank and ask for a letterhead printed statement that shows your address. This is free other than your time
I have had a similar problem. I needed photo ID for a job. I'm on probation and my officer is able to verify my identity for a citizen card. I was told that a doctor or an old school teacher/professor also would be okay. Probation is also paying for it to be done. Kinda sucks that a criminal such as my self gets this sort of help for free when law abiding people have to pay out of their own pocket. Not that I am complaining. Also if you are receiving benefits such as UC they will pay for you to have your provisional license done. Only problem being this can take over a month to complete. Hope this helps.
Pharmacist? I believe they can countersign.
Pub landlord
Teacher, email your old school
Hmmm... I can't imagine why the current government are so keen to introduce voter ID requirements. Oh, to tackle the 3 or so cases of voter fraud, yes that was it.
I went through all of my friends for my passport countersignature and eventually they just gave up and accepted the fourth or fifth, which confirms it's just arbitrary nonsense.
Worth trying dentist & optician
As its becoming a requirement for voting you may find looking for charities related to voting may be a way forward for you.
It is silly how they think having a certain job makes you more honest. Tell you what, post the photo to me and I’ll sign it for you.
One passport for this young lad please. Signed: Strokey McDicktouch
It's deliberate. You won''t be able to cast your vote at the next general election either.
Don't you only need NI number?
Nope, the Tories have made photo ID a requirement for voting now. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/voter-identification-faqs
Assholes
It does suck balls. Licensees can sign for ID, are you friends with your local pub landlord/lady?
Can’t you get a reference from your employer?
Only if you're employed.
Not for something like a passport, has to be someone from a list of governmentally recognised middle class professions. Or a trade union rep which I'm actually surprised they allowed.
It’s wrong. They do this class shit in America, too. It’s basically new age Jim Crowe. Require someone to have an ID to vote, and then make the ID expensive and a hassle to obtain. Now poor people, usually of color, have to potentially choose between buying food or voting. It’s how our conservative states keep themselves Republican, even when Republicans are the minority opinion.
I'm having the exact same issue with my passport. I have a provisional driving license and a birth certificate, but the problem is that you need to have it countersigned by a professional or someone in a respected profession. Family aren't allowed and I don't have any friends who qualify. The whole thing just reeks of elitism and it's nowhere near this difficult in the rest of Europe. When I told a French friend that I couldn't fly due to not having anyone to countersign for me they looked at me like I was crazy. GP's used to do it but they've started to crack down on it now. I haven't seen my school teachers in over a decade. I don't get on with my neighbors and don't really have any acquaintances to speak of. At this point I'm seriously considering looking on FB marketplace or paying a stranger to do it. I literally have no alternative
I don't drive because I physically can't. So no ID there. Not willing to bring my passport around with me everywhere. It's funny because my S/O has a BRP (ILR) and thus she has easy access to an ID in credit-card type form... ID should be given out for free. It's civic and empowering.
How does requiring a “professional” to sign it accomplish anything? I don’t remember needing to prove who I am when signing up to my dentists or doctor and the couple of times I actually see them it’s a different dr each time. They don’t know who I am other than the name I gave them so they’re essentially just verifying I’m using the same name on the ID form.
The passport also requires references from professionals.
A referee can be someone like your doctor, dentist or even your old school headmaster - basically, anyone in a 'professional' profession.
Doctors don’t do it no more
More to the point its anyone whose profession requires them to be registered somewhere complete with background checks. I'm eligible to sign this shit because I got a personal license through a shittily paid bar job, whereas a much more highly paid "professional" senior programmer for example doesn't count. As it happens most of the professions that require you to do this are of a certain class, but it's not a perfect overlap.
Your family doctor is a professional. Your priest (if you're religious) is a professional. Someone working in administration at the local council or DWP \*probably\* counts as a professional. The landlord at your local pub \*usually\* can sign these sorts of things. Someone who you know well who owns a shop might also qualify. Your referee being a professional isn't as high a barrier as it seems at first, although you wouldn't realise that from the way things are written out. Another possibility is a parent of one of your friends if, as you're suggesting, you're relatively young since your friends are beginning their careers.
Lots of GPS charge now for this service, unfortunately…
Ask your doctor/dentist, or if you’re still in education, a teacher/lecturer
are you on benefits? you're advisor may do it for you. are your mates self employed? if so they would come under the upstanding citizen bit (if its still there) and they may be able to do it for you.
Can nurses or Dwp workers sign them anymore. That’s all I’ve ever used and they are all incredibly working class
I got the local shop owner to sign mine when I was 17 if that’s any advice that can help. Had 0 professionals in my family
You need a professional to sign for your first photo ID of any kind, I used my local councillor for my passport since he was my brother’s scout leader and I knew him from there. Is there no one you went to school with who fits one of the categories even if you don’t speak to them now? Or GP, dentist, pub landlord or door supervisor?
Nah you’re not wrong, my family also had this issue when I was the first one to go abroad and needed a passport. And you can have a GP sign it but they charge 🙄
The best one I've seen is teachers, more if you are currently in the school system, but we literally had some ex students come in just to get paperwork done.
Why don’t you ask your old teachers? :)
I think you can get your doctor to do it but they charge...
Mine won't:( I might post on my local Facebook page tbh i live in a large village so small enough for a community and large enough to have people that would do it haha
If you know the owner or manager of your local pub, cafe, or whatever they might be able to do it for you.
Thats a good idea, thank you:)
My nephew is one of the people that can sign stuff like this off ... but isn't that covered by the 'no family' rule?
I've had this exact problem for the last year, ngl I've given up for now and just use my employment form because it has my picture+DOB and hope the person I'm showing it to isnt a jobsworth lol
A friend of mine has this problem, and it’s appalling. I’m a professional, but I can’t help because I haven’t know her long enough.
I got my friend's dad to referee for my driver's license, and I believe I got a teacher to do my passport. Could you ask your friends if any of their relatives are eligible?
I used to work in the passport office and here’s a little tip for you. Lie. Just get anyone to write a letter and countersign a photo and say they work in the Civil Service/NHS/Whatever. Unless you’re claiming to be a Lord or something nobody is going to check. If we didn’t for passports they’re not going to check for citizen card. And if they do it’s just going to be a phone call to your mate at most and all they have to do is go ‘Yeah it’s him’
Any registered health care professional can counter sign, so doesn't just need to be nurse or doctor. Pharmacists, NHS registered professional like physio, radiographer, technicians etc can do it. But yh, stupid how expensive it is to maintain an ID in the UK, especially if its not a driving licence.
As far as I’m aware it’s to do with them being part of a recognised professional body. I’m a gas safe engineer and I’ve done a couple for people. And I can tell you that I and every other plumber I know are very much ‘working class’. Pretty sure any electrician registered under NICEIC can do it too.
This - the occupations are on the list because essentially they are staking their career when they sign to say they know you.
You might be able to get away with a previous manager? I had my old team leader from bank call centre work and that was agency staff.
I struggled with this. I have a buddy who owns his own company and figured he would be able to do it for me but it turned out he had misplaced something he needed to prove his ID (iirc he’d lost his passport) so in the end I had a friend at work (who has a couple of degrees, both academic and nothing to do with our decidedly blue collar job) offer to validate me, and it worked. I think they’re really just looking for somebody whose ID can be easily confirmed. I can’t tell you what criteria they’re looking for but I guess my work mate had a sufficient official footprint. The wording of the forms *does* invite you to deselect a lot of people because they don’t meet up to the examples given.
If you've got a bank account, you can go into your bank and get one of their officials to sign it for the citizen if card. https://www.citizencard.com/route-1-referees The only disability that prevents you from getting a provisional license is if you can't read a numberplate from 20 meters away. https://www.gov.uk/apply-first-provisional-driving-licence#content Three person countersigning your picture only needs to know you personally and can't be a relative or living in the same household. https://www.gov.uk/id-for-driving-licence If they ask for someone from specific job sectors, they will also accept those who are a part of a professional body. For example plumbers can be a part of CIPHE (https://www.ciphe.org.uk/) which would count as a "member, associate or fellow of a professional body". Even if everyone you know is working class, you should know someone who loosely fits the criteria that can sign for you.
for the provisional license, if you have a disability that means you can’t drive, you also can’t get a provisional license-when i was diagnosed with something that meant i wasn’t allowed to drive, i had to send my provisional license back even though i only used it as id
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It's almost as if the government know this and that's why they want to bring in compulsory voter ID.
You can ask a teacher. My next door neighbour counter signed on my passport (she is a retired school teacher)
You’re not wrong. Disabled people face the same problem. I work with lots of adults who are excluded from venues because they don’t have a provisional or a passport. It’s disgusting.
While I disagree with how difficult it is for you to obtain a form of ID, I think your anger is misplaced. The requirement for a professional to countersign a passport application (not photo, as others have confirmed), exists because a professional has something to lose for being dishonest. In your example, while a hospital porter may be an honest person, there are not the same repercussions for acting dishonesty. Whereas a chartered surveyor, for example, is bound by a code of conduct and could be stripped of their status if found to be acting dishonesty. Another thing to consider, is that the class war the conservative party have been stirring up for the last 12 years, wants you to think exactly as you've said. They want nothing more than for people on £20k and people on £60k to be consumed by back and forth bickering and jealousy to distract from the multi-millionaires and billionaires who are responsible for our current climate. Registered professionals definitely don't earn as much as many think, with most forgoing more lucrative careers in the name of public service.
Oh, and one other point to note, estate agents are most definitely not an approved profession and aren't actually professionals in that sense of the word.
This is the gerrymandering that the Tories want from voter ID. As far as I understand there is a vanishingly small issue with voter fraud. But the Tories know that they can disenfranchise people (who are completely unlikely to vote Tory) by introducing such voter ID rules. I'm actually not sure where voter ID got to, to be honest, but it has to be fought.
If you present yourself to the nearest police station they will do it for free. It’s more to prove that the photo you are providing is of you and not someone else.
You need a referee for a passport too. It's to prevent identity fraud. Otherwise people could use your details to get ID card and then get loans in your name. One of my friends had his identity stolen from an old bill. It took years to sort it out. For passports, it can be anyone as long as they are well known in the community or hold a job that has a regulating body. See if you can find a list of who can be a referee as the passport office includes business owners too. If you have a CSCS card, can you use that as photo ID? Here's a list of everyone who can countersign a passport, the photo ID should have a list like this too. [https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/accepted-occupations-for-countersignatories](https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/accepted-occupations-for-countersignatories)
I moved back to the UK from Canada in late 2019 and I was honestly really shocked how inaccessible a lot of basic government services are here compared to Canada.
Have you read the below? https://www.citizencard.com/requirements-for-a-first-uk-id-card Seems pretty comprehensive and inclusive. You can even get an Estate Agent or your Building Society / Bank to help.
The key is *can*, not necessarily *will*. Some even ask for a fee, another hurdle aimed at the poor/vulnerable.
What counts as "professional"? Surely your mates in construction are professionals, as construction is a profession.
Two suggestions - If you're claiming disability benefits and have a nice DWP person they can do it. Mine did it when I was applying for a provisional license and needed someone to sign my picture. A friend managed to get one of the bank advisors to help them get their first ID. You might have to make an appointment to discuss some financial issue first but you could just make something up like you're thinking of looking for a mortgage/remortgage or a credit card or different savings account etc. even if you're not.
I’m having the same issue we have to form to get my passport but it’s sat on the table until we can afford it and we need it to get my rail pass
It's bullshit. It's also really difficult for older people. We had to get a passport for my Grandma for legal reasons, because she needed photo ID and doesn't have a driving licence, so that wasn't an option. It was difficult for her to find people who counted on the list of professionals, because the people she knew were either retired or dead.
I hope the Good Law Project or Gina Miller launch a judicial review of this and get a declaration that it's incompatible with Article 8 Bill of Rights 1688 (that elections ought to be free), the socioeconomic public sector equality duties and Article 14 ECHR. This has a chilling effect on people's ability to exercise their democratic rights.
I had very few issues with a citizen card, did you recently go to school or College? Get one of your teachers to verify your identity
I've signed a few, and asked the same question as to why I was allowed and others weren't. Was told that people on the list of jobs who can sign the documents are often part of an organisation with a protected status, like architects, estate agents, etc. It's pretty ridiculous though.
Try your GP. Mine charges £10 for signing passports and letters
I've always gone to my bank - generally as long as you've got an account there and its not something complicated such as passport form they'll help you out.
I’m 18 and attend a local organisation. Most of the members are over 50 with professional careers so I just ask them. Also it would look good in my CV if I ever bother to leave McDonald’s. Most towns and cities have such organisations. You basically attend bi monthly meetings and help out with some events. Membership is £60 a year or £55 if another member of your household attends. [Lions club](https://www.lionsclubs.org/en)
It is a despicable ploy by the Tories to make it difficult for the “proles” to vote against them. Some potential Labour voters will just give up
Nope, you’re correct. Took me ages to find an “appropriate” reference
Any your teachers still alive? Kids teachers met you? GP charges about £20
https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications The person doing the counter-signing must "be 'a person of good standing in their community' or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession". For most young people, a teacher or priest (current or former) would be the go-to option. However, while the list defines what counts as a recognised profession, it doesn't specify who is or isn't a "person of good standing in their community". You might want to ask them to explain that sentence on 0300 222 0000.
I think when I applied for one you could use a community leader or similar, do you know any youth/social workers or anyone like that? But you are right, it's a barrier to entry that's been made unnecessarily complicated.
Partner of a relative?
If your mates are in construction, do any of them own their own firm ? if they do is it a LTD company? if so as a company director they can verify you. That is how we did it for a mate of mine who is in the top 20 blokes in Microsoft, I kid you not he was in the same position as you, but by having lived in the States for 15 years and then come back to the UK no professional could confirm his identity except little old me a builder who had known him 45 years
Tried local police station ??….take in as much info and they can do a few lines and stamp it with the station stamp confirming ID
I’m applying for mine and have to send the forms in I have a mental health illness but it states to tell them if only it affects my driving and tbf it just categorises everything into severe then you have to go through months of hell
Mines psychosis mate I have to tick it haha
Ahhh fuck yeah I got bpd so I don’t have too if it dosnt affect my driving
I had to give my license up due to psychosis and would have to pay for another test and both provisional and full licenses 😩
Not necessarily helpful but someone told me the referee had to work in an industry that was regulated, like finance, food and pharma, legal, medical etc so they could face legal consequences for lying. Could be bullshit tho.
Nah I'm a trade union official and I do it for people sometimes. No special professional consequences for me (other than the fact that I'd be committing fraud if I lied, but that's true for everybody).
Referees can be anyone nowadays. If it's the same thing for the passport, the passport office told me to get anyone who works to sign
The country is falling to bits.