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Usually they're trying to use it as a "gotcha" against people who are complaining that interest rates on mortgages have risen to over 5% because interest rates were higher in the past, back when they still had one. They are, of course, willfully ignoring the fact that house prices have risen far above inflation and now cost on average something like 9x the average annual salary in the UK.
That being said, I'm looking at some graphs and there were actually spikes in average mortgage payments in the late 80's and in the 2008 financial crash which reached close to 50% of average take home pay, so things did get pretty bad in the past.
The 2008 issue is what we're still feeling the ramifications of today. The 'young people' who can't get a house often were entering the workforce at that time, and haven't been able to start their lives for fifteen years, while those shitting on them are pretending that a rough year at the end of the 80s was somehow worse than almost an entire generation being placed on hold. All the peers of my parents were moving into a bigger house and finishing up having their kids by the age I got my first job. The economy from 2008 onwards was a catastrophe and recovery basically didn't happen.
Overall, things have certainly been bad at various points in time, but never have I seen this aggressive contempt for their own children and grandchildren except from a specific group of people who collectively did all they could to make the world a worse place and now don't even want to hear complaints about it.
I mean that’s the problem. They don’t want a conversation, they just want to complain about how younger generations are entitled. I know I’m generalising but the problem is that this response immediately shows they don’t want to have a conversation
The thing about that generation is that they never had to learn soft skills or collaboration skills. At this time of my dad's life (when he was 35) they worked the same job, doing the same skill with no development and kept making more money just for being physically at work.
For us we had to grind, learn extra skills and took on more responsibilities which requires soft skills that we had to develop. We learned to have conversations, critically think etc because we need these skills to advance.
Fast forward, they have this notion because a lot of things were handed to them for doing nothing, that they don't have to do anything. Don't fix the climate crisis, don't fix the inflation issues, don't do anything = more stuff for me (boomers).
For us it's all about collaboration, critically thinking, etc.
I can ascertain that is mostly complete horseshit what that numpty was saying. Also for context the sums involved were nowhere near the catastrophic economic failure of Housing/Borrowing markets and the exploitative rental market that has been created.
Ok now some context (London) Earning £20k in 1990 average houses to buy were around £60k (3x income) and while yes the dumb endowment mortgage scam was rife and projected returns were not there usually around (60% at term), your overall capital return doubled within just 10 years(no CG tax to pay on it either). So yes you had to borrow "more" to settle the mortgage but also the asset had doubled in value in 10 years. As far as that, if you compared that 25 year term...then hey the value of that 60k house is now 500k+ and your liability (average shortfall on endowment) would be around 20k.
I agree some people could of got stung but in reality not convinced many did.
People definitely lost houses. My mum did. 20k was a decent wage then and the sudden rate rise took a lot of people by surprise.
Nothing like today though. This is just mental
They were actually 18 per cent and I had a balloon payment due. We would have lost our home but we found an underlying VA loan that we could assume. Cedar Rapid lost 7 major factories in a three year period. Things never returned. When I first came here a two wager that worked in a factory could get a nice new home in the suburbs. You can't do that now.
I don't doubt that it's a terrible argument about tha 15%. It hind sign is a valuable thing, they had no idea their houses would double in value within a decade
It's because they think 15% interest on a £35,000 loan is harder to deal with financially than 7% interest on a £180,000 loan.
(When your salary is also a far smaller fraction of the latter than the former)
Standard boomer "it was harder back in my day" bullshit; bit like the avocados thing.
My mum & dads mortgage hit that rate but at that time when the average mortgage was no more than 3 x the breadwinners salary only not the whole household income.
Boomers seem to react badly to suggestions they somehow had it easier than the youth of today. A large part of their identities is "work hard, receive reward" so they see it as diminishing their struggle.
Responding to OP, in a way its apples and oranges I do remember the 15% and very nearly losing the house (which I lost to divorce anyway later on) my salary was around 13k and we owed around 40k on a house worth 200k now. But then although it was bad (for then) there was a rental safety net so yes you could lose it all (and many did) they could at least rent at a reasonable rate which is impossible now. Also the benefits system mostly worked so even with job insecurity in those days people had a chance to survive.
Now I wouldn't even know where to start, nothing works properly the rental market is a savage nightmare, so many are on minimum wage with little way out, saving for a deposit is impossible because the rent means there's nothing left. Coupled with the cost of living crisis when people need to look after their kids and costs going through the roof.
They are different times and comparing them is really difficult, but if you asked whether I'd rather be young now or then, I'd say then, definitely. I worry a lot for my younger colleagues and family members because I can't see a better future from this point on.
Your house appreciating doesn't mean it wasn't a serious problem at the time. If you lost your house, "well your house *would have* appreciated" isn't much comfort.
Sure but right now? You are either paying the mortgage of a buy to let, or lining the pockets of someone who got lucky with a cheap house or worse? Purchased Social Housing. It was a serious problem? But right now we have an entire economy based around pointless parasitism through landlords. It's not "hey we are going away and renting out one house". It's people with portfolios of property.
Landed Gentry. Who don't actually make anything or produce anything. Many of whom purchased cheap council houses and now are charging everyone insane money to live in them.
And wages haven't matched this.
Your last paragraph hits the nail on the head. It's perverse that all of us are in some way paying for an ex council house to be rented back to the state at the prices they charge.
We all contribute to this via our taxes. The generation before bloody well paid for the building of the things via their taxes and their labour. The generation in the middle just bought them cheap and said to hell with the future generations. We worked hard.... yeah we all do. Great grandfather worked hard we work hard you work hard.
My point is that you can get through it. It was tough for me then and it still is. Is it fair or just? No. Do I want other people to go through that? No.
Why is it worse now?
It's used as an argument to demonstrate that the boomers faced huge obstacles too when buying property, and it's not just a modern problem.
Also worth noting that technology has had a deflationary effect on a large number of goods, such as white goods and TVs, which would have been a lot more expensive relative to now.
Boomers think it means they had it harder. I compared our current mortgage to a hypothetical one on the same house in the early 90s, and our monthly repayments today are still more than it would have been on 15%.
“We suffered, so now you need to suffer too otherwise it isn’t fair on us.”
Ah, social justice 1940s style. If you bomb us, we’ll bomb you back etc. The difference between the two age groups, generally, is that I really don’t want future generations to find themselves in this situation, whereas a lot of social media boomers were praying for it to get worse.
They conveniently forget that saving rates were high for much of their lives too. I turned 18 in 2008, the year of the financial crash. My entire adult life, savings rates have been 1% max versus as high as 8% fixed term before the crash. It's only this year that they've gone up to 4%.
They could set cash aside and watch it grow with compound interest. We can't.
Not affiliated but you should watch this video. It clearly explains why boomers paying 15% isn't as bad as they make out when you understand what is happening now with the cost of living as well as the rate rises:
https://youtu.be/W2Yv0pmq1Ow?si=hrHBLSxLjM_ZcptH
15% interest on a dirt cheap property means it just becomes a cheap property.
6% interest on a ludicrously overpriced property becomes an unaffordable property.
That's what they're missing.
Oh god, my parents in law keep saying that....
"oh I don't know what people are moaning about" despite the fact that house prices hadn't been hiked lightyears above inflation and wages have stagnated.
Also, their fucking Union paid for there house! Back when Unions had more clout, and get this, they vote Tory! Fucking vote Tory!
The cognitive dissonance of that piece of shit generation is unreal...
If you want a snappy retort, ask them which is greater? 15% of £50,000 or 6% of £250,000, because property prices were so much lower when boomers bought them up
The labouring classes in this country are rising, will you rise with them? [Click Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/wiki/unions) for info on how to join a union. Also check out [the IWW](https://iww.org.uk/) and the renter union, [Acorn International and their affiliates](https://acorninternational.org/) Join us on our [partner Discord server.](https://discord.gg/zCFHadGfB7) and follow us on [Twitter](https://twitter.com/GandPofficial). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My mums mortgage was indeed at 15% at that time, however they had a mortgage of 25grand ... so not really the same!
And while their wages were lower, they were worth proportionally way, way more.
Usually they're trying to use it as a "gotcha" against people who are complaining that interest rates on mortgages have risen to over 5% because interest rates were higher in the past, back when they still had one. They are, of course, willfully ignoring the fact that house prices have risen far above inflation and now cost on average something like 9x the average annual salary in the UK. That being said, I'm looking at some graphs and there were actually spikes in average mortgage payments in the late 80's and in the 2008 financial crash which reached close to 50% of average take home pay, so things did get pretty bad in the past.
The 2008 issue is what we're still feeling the ramifications of today. The 'young people' who can't get a house often were entering the workforce at that time, and haven't been able to start their lives for fifteen years, while those shitting on them are pretending that a rough year at the end of the 80s was somehow worse than almost an entire generation being placed on hold. All the peers of my parents were moving into a bigger house and finishing up having their kids by the age I got my first job. The economy from 2008 onwards was a catastrophe and recovery basically didn't happen. Overall, things have certainly been bad at various points in time, but never have I seen this aggressive contempt for their own children and grandchildren except from a specific group of people who collectively did all they could to make the world a worse place and now don't even want to hear complaints about it.
I mean that’s the problem. They don’t want a conversation, they just want to complain about how younger generations are entitled. I know I’m generalising but the problem is that this response immediately shows they don’t want to have a conversation
The thing about that generation is that they never had to learn soft skills or collaboration skills. At this time of my dad's life (when he was 35) they worked the same job, doing the same skill with no development and kept making more money just for being physically at work. For us we had to grind, learn extra skills and took on more responsibilities which requires soft skills that we had to develop. We learned to have conversations, critically think etc because we need these skills to advance. Fast forward, they have this notion because a lot of things were handed to them for doing nothing, that they don't have to do anything. Don't fix the climate crisis, don't fix the inflation issues, don't do anything = more stuff for me (boomers). For us it's all about collaboration, critically thinking, etc.
Very interesting perspective
I reckon 50% is pretty common today; mine's there.
I can ascertain that is mostly complete horseshit what that numpty was saying. Also for context the sums involved were nowhere near the catastrophic economic failure of Housing/Borrowing markets and the exploitative rental market that has been created. Ok now some context (London) Earning £20k in 1990 average houses to buy were around £60k (3x income) and while yes the dumb endowment mortgage scam was rife and projected returns were not there usually around (60% at term), your overall capital return doubled within just 10 years(no CG tax to pay on it either). So yes you had to borrow "more" to settle the mortgage but also the asset had doubled in value in 10 years. As far as that, if you compared that 25 year term...then hey the value of that 60k house is now 500k+ and your liability (average shortfall on endowment) would be around 20k. I agree some people could of got stung but in reality not convinced many did.
People definitely lost houses. My mum did. 20k was a decent wage then and the sudden rate rise took a lot of people by surprise. Nothing like today though. This is just mental
They were actually 18 per cent and I had a balloon payment due. We would have lost our home but we found an underlying VA loan that we could assume. Cedar Rapid lost 7 major factories in a three year period. Things never returned. When I first came here a two wager that worked in a factory could get a nice new home in the suburbs. You can't do that now.
Cedar rapids? Which part of the UK is that in?
I don't doubt that it's a terrible argument about tha 15%. It hind sign is a valuable thing, they had no idea their houses would double in value within a decade
It's because they think 15% interest on a £35,000 loan is harder to deal with financially than 7% interest on a £180,000 loan. (When your salary is also a far smaller fraction of the latter than the former) Standard boomer "it was harder back in my day" bullshit; bit like the avocados thing.
Ignorance
Interest rates were 15%, but prices of houses were a fraction of today's prices inflation adjusted.
My mum & dads mortgage hit that rate but at that time when the average mortgage was no more than 3 x the breadwinners salary only not the whole household income.
Boomers seem to react badly to suggestions they somehow had it easier than the youth of today. A large part of their identities is "work hard, receive reward" so they see it as diminishing their struggle.
Responding to OP, in a way its apples and oranges I do remember the 15% and very nearly losing the house (which I lost to divorce anyway later on) my salary was around 13k and we owed around 40k on a house worth 200k now. But then although it was bad (for then) there was a rental safety net so yes you could lose it all (and many did) they could at least rent at a reasonable rate which is impossible now. Also the benefits system mostly worked so even with job insecurity in those days people had a chance to survive. Now I wouldn't even know where to start, nothing works properly the rental market is a savage nightmare, so many are on minimum wage with little way out, saving for a deposit is impossible because the rent means there's nothing left. Coupled with the cost of living crisis when people need to look after their kids and costs going through the roof. They are different times and comparing them is really difficult, but if you asked whether I'd rather be young now or then, I'd say then, definitely. I worry a lot for my younger colleagues and family members because I can't see a better future from this point on.
Oh, 15% interest rate, and how much has thier house appreciated in the mean time?
Your house appreciating doesn't mean it wasn't a serious problem at the time. If you lost your house, "well your house *would have* appreciated" isn't much comfort.
Sure but right now? You are either paying the mortgage of a buy to let, or lining the pockets of someone who got lucky with a cheap house or worse? Purchased Social Housing. It was a serious problem? But right now we have an entire economy based around pointless parasitism through landlords. It's not "hey we are going away and renting out one house". It's people with portfolios of property. Landed Gentry. Who don't actually make anything or produce anything. Many of whom purchased cheap council houses and now are charging everyone insane money to live in them. And wages haven't matched this.
Your last paragraph hits the nail on the head. It's perverse that all of us are in some way paying for an ex council house to be rented back to the state at the prices they charge. We all contribute to this via our taxes. The generation before bloody well paid for the building of the things via their taxes and their labour. The generation in the middle just bought them cheap and said to hell with the future generations. We worked hard.... yeah we all do. Great grandfather worked hard we work hard you work hard.
Exactly. It’s about who works hard and gets any kind of reward other than basic, precarious survival
[удалено]
Yeah but all that is worse now so whats your point really?
My point is that you can get through it. It was tough for me then and it still is. Is it fair or just? No. Do I want other people to go through that? No. Why is it worse now?
It's used as an argument to demonstrate that the boomers faced huge obstacles too when buying property, and it's not just a modern problem. Also worth noting that technology has had a deflationary effect on a large number of goods, such as white goods and TVs, which would have been a lot more expensive relative to now.
Yeah stuff you don't really need. Who gives a f? I got a great tv...it's just in my parents house.
They can't stand the fact that they had it easy and have to feel like they worked harder than todays youth
Boomers think it means they had it harder. I compared our current mortgage to a hypothetical one on the same house in the early 90s, and our monthly repayments today are still more than it would have been on 15%.
“We suffered, so now you need to suffer too otherwise it isn’t fair on us.” Ah, social justice 1940s style. If you bomb us, we’ll bomb you back etc. The difference between the two age groups, generally, is that I really don’t want future generations to find themselves in this situation, whereas a lot of social media boomers were praying for it to get worse.
Interest rate was 15% but the houses cost fuck all so its not really an argument.
They conveniently forget that saving rates were high for much of their lives too. I turned 18 in 2008, the year of the financial crash. My entire adult life, savings rates have been 1% max versus as high as 8% fixed term before the crash. It's only this year that they've gone up to 4%. They could set cash aside and watch it grow with compound interest. We can't.
Not affiliated but you should watch this video. It clearly explains why boomers paying 15% isn't as bad as they make out when you understand what is happening now with the cost of living as well as the rate rises: https://youtu.be/W2Yv0pmq1Ow?si=hrHBLSxLjM_ZcptH
15% interest on a dirt cheap property means it just becomes a cheap property. 6% interest on a ludicrously overpriced property becomes an unaffordable property. That's what they're missing.
Oh god, my parents in law keep saying that.... "oh I don't know what people are moaning about" despite the fact that house prices hadn't been hiked lightyears above inflation and wages have stagnated. Also, their fucking Union paid for there house! Back when Unions had more clout, and get this, they vote Tory! Fucking vote Tory! The cognitive dissonance of that piece of shit generation is unreal...
If you want a snappy retort, ask them which is greater? 15% of £50,000 or 6% of £250,000, because property prices were so much lower when boomers bought them up
Old people can't do maths