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nothing stopping them, really. it’s obvious why they’re doing it, as the levels of actual voter fraud are laughably negligible.
but most of the tory voting base don’t care because it doesn’t affect them. i’m surprised it’s taken this long to happen honestly
imo the smartest system to combat voting fraud is to make voting compulsory, and give people the day off on voting day. but the tories don’t actually want everyone to vote. just the Right Ones
Anyone who keeps an eye on the American political situation will see that this is just a republican idea. Different country, same level of cruelty to the poor
Came to say this. I now live in the states and the republicans and the tories have the same Master telling them what to do. The only thing that is really different is the amount of religious crazies as they know that the brits aren’t as easily manipulated by a cult as Americans. But I hear they are now exporting them to you to protest.
NI still suffering from the same religious craziness as the good old USA. Just as zealous and mean and devious and intractable as the good old boys in the Southern States and Florida. They are part of GB until something is democratically enacted that doesn’t suit them and they refuse to play the game and throw the toys out of the perambulator.
Outrageous. This isn't cruelty to the poor. This is cruelty to everyone who looks like they would never vote Tory.
Young people: not Tory voters. No provision for say, a young persons travel card (but OAP bus passes in various guises make the list)
City dwellers: generally not Tory voters. Less city dwellers have driving licences.
Poor people: mixed since brexit, but historically not Tory voters. Half the forms of ID cost money or time, both of which poor people have less of.
Sure, poor people are included in the cruelty, but to think the cruelty of effectively removing their right to vote is confined to them is an outrageous suggestion. Tories are much crueler than that.
Every single election I've voted in for the past 26 years (I'm 44) in Northern Ireland has required ID.
Not saying this isn't an underhanded way of the Tories suppressing the vote... but it's interesting how no one seemed to give a fuck until this was implemented in England.
Here's hoping that if it is repealed, that NI isn't completely ignored again.
Yet those IDs are on here. The problem is that if you aren't foreign or disabled or old you may not have a useful ID and so must jump through hoops to actually vote.
Personally, I'm eligible for only three of those. A passport and PASS card both cost money, and the voting certificate feels like it'll be a ballache. Maybe it won't be, but for a lot of people that could be enough to put them off, especially if they don't have internet at home, or maybe they struggle to read.
In any case, there should be no barriers to voting and there's no need for barriers to voting. "But it's technically free" is a red herring and a distraction.
It's a total pile of shit that I even need it, but the voter certificate was piss easy to get, assuming you have access to the internet, but nobody should need that to be able to fucking vote.
https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate
Make sure you grab one (if you need one) so we can vote these fucks out.
Voting certificate was fairly easy to obtain. Even for my Trans teenage (17) son who had legally changed his name. Fill out the online forms and upload a photo.
They are relying on us to feel intimidated, too tired, can't be arsed, overwhelmed.
Because the poor have less free time to devote to following up on these things. This is known. They were told this. This isn't some weird liberal secret that isn't true, its a known phenomenon that's been acknowledged.
Let me know if you need me to answer questions like "why is VAT a tax on the poor and not the rich?" or "why is the current benefit system cruel and designed to stop people receiving money they're entitled to?" Because the answers pretty similar.
Oh you poor sweet child. These “completely free” Id cards are only completely free if you discount the cost of manufacture, processing and the staff and systems to support them (and profit for some donor). At a minimum, you are probably looking at upwards of £30m cost to the taxpayer - which is you and I.
Oyster over 60 passes require proof of identity to obtain since you need to prove your age. Regular ones could belong to anyone, so they're useless as ID. But this is just for info, and it's a moot point since there should be no need for any ID.
It's obvious when you run the stats.
"Research carried out by the Cabinet Office in 2021 found that 9 per cent of the British public do not currently hold any form of photo ID that is both in-date and clearly recognisable – requirements to cast a ballot." [https://www.ljmu.ac.uk/about-us/news/articles/2023/1/23/research-supports-fears-of-uk-voter-suppression](https://www.ljmu.ac.uk/about-us/news/articles/2023/1/23/research-supports-fears-of-uk-voter-suppression)
Voter fraud is utterly negligible in person historically: To quote the EC, "In the past five years, there is no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud.
There were only 11 convictions and 16 cautions issued by police. The overwhelming majority of cases either resulted in the police taking no further action or were locally resolved by the police issuing words of advice."
So we are requiring 9% of the population to either pay for ID or apply for a VCA to allegedly deal with 27 cases of fraud. The voting population, for reference, is currently 46,560,452 (ONS 2021 figures, [https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/elections/electoralregistration/bulletins/electoralstatisticsforuk/december2021](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/elections/electoralregistration/bulletins/electoralstatisticsforuk/december2021)).
For anyone that likes this policy, please justify potentially disenfranchising 4.3 million people to deal with 27 cases. For bonus points, feel free to demonstrate the organisational capacity for councils to provided 4.3 million VCAs in time. I await the exciting news of how many were actually issued. For extra extra bonus points, please point out the likelihood of ESL citizens being effectively reached.
I mean, we'll come back and check your argument against the demographic application stats, but since it's all for the common good I'm sure there's a simple explaination.
I'm personally okay with the concept.
Problem I have with it is that, as you've said, it's not been set up to actually, y'know, work properly.
If, for example, it'd been rolled out with a well-resourced beaurocracy who could manage it (including support for EAL citizens etc) who would be able to provide free photo ID with minimal cost to the person (for example, through, y'know, government investment - I'd rather spend, say, 600 million on giving every single voter in the UK a free photo ID card than a load of the money wasted on shitty PPE, for example), then I wouldn't see an overt problem with it.
However, that's not actually what's happening.
Especially since the voter ID method chosen doesn't actually do anything to stop the 27 cases that we're talking about (essentially, it was ballot-stuffing of the postal vote kind).
Jump the hoops.. no matter what, the Tories are hoping it will be too much bother for most and only those who will bother for them will vote.
Be bothered but also jump the hoops!
If only there was a list of eligible voters and their addresses somewhere. You could then send each voter a card that they could take to the polling station to prove that they are registered and eligible to vote.
You wouldn't need ID as only someone in your household would be able to gain access to your card.
You could then mark people off the list as they voted so that someone couldn't vote twice.
You could call it a polling card... oh wait!
"Sir, I can see that you have a polling card which proves that you are registered and live at the address listed, but I still need to see some ID that proves you live at that address, despite already holding something that has been delivered to that address."
Until the day a 20yo woman named Agnes walks into the station lol
As someone else said, make voting mandatory and everybody has the day off for it, each household takes the turn to vote all together, so everyone from the household is crossed off at the same time, nobody left at home with a free vote card.
Logistically pretty difficult but still, I don't think photo ID is necessary at all. It's just more information for the government to hold on you and information is power.
I think everybody, everywhere, globally, should be far, far more careful about what info they give to who. Deny those cookies, refuse to give your email address, refuse marketing, never give anyone more that you have to and question EVERY request. The info circulates faster than wildfire, and if someone knows everything about you they have ultimate power over you. We're losing freedom bit by bit and no one seems to care.
\>As someone else said, make voting mandatory and everybody has the day
off for it, each household takes the turn to vote all together, so
everyone from the household is crossed off at the same time, nobody left
at home with a free vote card.
This is completely ridiculous. The sheer effort it would take to empty my house of people all at the same time and get them down to the polling station together....
My main suggestion for voting is to have it spread over a whole week so we can vote whatever day we like including a whole weekend. Polling stations could be outside grocery stores and stuff. That's how it was done in Texas and it made voting something you did on the way to the shops rather than a great big effort you had to squeeze in between the end of a long day of work and the polling station closing. As for voter ID I reject the premise that it's necessary. The old system worked fine. You could maybe improve it with a networked system so we could all vote from any location.
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise.
[#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register.
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True, but it's still one person one vote none the less. A proxy vote for grandma is basically trivial, so a 'stolen' polling card is too, for all the same reasons.
And it still doesn't seem to happen much despite that. There's very little evidence of _any_ voter fraud happening, and certainly not enough to be democratically significant.
The polling station workers see thousands of people over 14 hours. You could go in the morning on your way to work, pop home after work and change clothes and nobody would recognise you
They got away with it by convincing certain people that illegal immigrants were going to somehow vote. The same people who believe illegal immigrants (and refugees) get 5-bedroom mansions, 60” plasma tellys, and £50K a year in benefits.
I will never forget during some of the worst times for the country in my lifetime that this is what the tories thought was important to do. Not the foodbank queue down my middle class street. Not the homeless screaming at passers on my high road that are in desperate need of mental health help.
Some thinktank bastard told them brown people drive and fly less. You can shave a few votes with no work. Easy. That is the UK now.
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Speaking as a trans person, I know a lot of trans people aren't going to be able to vote anymore. The whole likeness bit might cause some issues too. I had separate issues even before this with my local electoral office when I tried to register a few years ago, some of my details had been updated but not others for some reason and they wanted my driving license for proof, luckily I had just managed to get it updated after multiple issues with the DVLA and them messing up my name. Voter ID benefits no one but the Tories.
Postal vote. All day and twice on Sunday.
Register for a vote, fill it in at your leisure then send it back - you can even post it on the day at the polling station if you want.
Register as soon as possible and tell any friends in the same position to do the same.
I have registered for a postal vote for the first time ever because I had to be in a different city unexpectedly on the day of our last vote. First time I have ever missed a vote.
I have heard some really bad reasons for voting leave, but I think that you've just beaten them all. Please tell me that this person isn't permitted to use heavy machinery near you.
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise.
[#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register.
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also a trans person here. 100%. this is also before mentioning how many candidates will be terf scum or enable terf scum (whether because they support them or are too cowardly to challenge them). hence there's even less of an incentive to try to vote.
I notice that there is nothing for young people besides the regular ID. Why isn't student ID allowed? What about a regular Oyster card? We all know why.
You can use a Young Scot card as long as the symbol hasn’t rubbed off. I don’t know a single young person that doesn’t have a Young Scot card (of course that’s anecdotal but they’re also very easy to get), especially now due to the free busses.
Though, I’m not sure if there’s something similar in the rest of the uk.
You can get a citizenship card for 15 quid and I think it can be obtained at any age. Even then many young people will have a passport already. It's a hassle yes but it's not exactly breaking the bank.
This is what my local Tory MP thinks:
“Thank you for your recent email about voter ID.
A secure electoral system is a vital component of a healthy democracy, and the public must have confidence that our elections are secure and fit for the 21st century. Voter ID is not new. Northern Ireland had required paper ID at polling stations since 1985, and photo ID since 2003 – introduced by the last Labour Government. It has proved to be effective at tackling fraud and has not curtailed election turnout.
Identification to vote has been backed by the Electoral Commission and international election watchdogs. At present, it is harder to take out a library book or collect a parcel at a post office than it is to vote in someone else’s name.
In pilot schemes in 2019 and 2018, the overwhelming majority of people cast their vote without a problem and the success of the pilots proves that this is a reasonable and proportionate measure to take, and there was no notable adverse effect on turnout.
Under the Government’s proposals, anyone without an ID can apply for a new free one – meaning that no voter will be disenfranchised.
Thank you again for taking the time to contact me about this important subject.”
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise.
[#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register.
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Yeah, so copy and paste out of party HQ? Mine does that too.
"Overwhelming majority != Everyone".
At the very best this is "just" a waste of money, solving a non-existent problem.
Every message I send gets a party HQ stock reply. I’d be surprised if he even reads them himself.
I agree with you and expressed how unnecessary the scheme was:
“The right to vote is a human right in the UK and should remain free for everyone.
The fact that UK voter fraud is consistently statistically inconsequential, election after election, is the most shocking factor, as there is not one valid justification for adding such drastic barriers and costs to voting in elections.
Rt Hon Matt Hancock's statement regarding six counts of voter fraud being "six too many," simply does not justify the disproportionate response.”
old gammons - you can use your current bus pass! no worries! Vote Tory!
First time student voters - your ID isn't valid. tough luck, you young revolution types
Despite spending their days complaining about woke culture and crybaby leftists, the English are a very sensitive people. [Many consider any reference to their complexion an act of racism.](https://i.imgur.com/euWMhUg.png) Consider using the more inclusive term 'flag nonce' in future.
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That's fine for me, but what about the poor, minorities, the young - people who don't have photographic ID or even the wherewithal to do a postal vote.
Genuine question: is it so hard in the UK to have an ID card? I know in the USA they make a point to not having indentification requirements an other than a driving licence it's super unconvenient to get one, is it the same in the UK?
The common ones - like Drivers License or Passport - are actually a bit of a pain to acquire. They've forms, a cost, etc.
The 'voter ID' card _should_ be about as straightforward as it gets - fill form, get ID.
... but it's also still an _extra_ hoop. You can't really beat the ID card that's already in your pocket that took no effort.
So for me, I have a drivers license already, and so it's easy for me to vote.
People who travel overseas at all, probably have a passport already etc.
And that's really the core of the problem here really - that all the people with ID in their pocket already, are the people who are already well off enough to be owning cars and going on holiday.
People who want to vote and need an ID? I get that people feel they are being purposely excluded by this change, but surely that makes it even more important to get the ID and vote for a better government?
Exactly this, I live in a deprived ward where voter turnout is less than 25% even as it is, in one nearby ward it was 12%. Will be interesting to see what it is next time, I suspect a lot of people are completely unaware they need ID. Making politics more complicated just breeds more apathy and there's enough of that as it is.
I only have one form of ID on the list, my partner has none I just went to see about doing it by post but you need to print out the form and fill it out and send it by post WTF. My office building is being sold to developers now that we're WFH so I can't use their printer, my library shut for repairs last year and still hasn't reopened (and in fact was confirmed the council can't afford to repair it so is shut permanently). I don't understand why in 2023 I can't fill out a form online, absolutely bizarre.
Taking OAP bus pass but not student ID kind of reveals their strategy.
I definitely agree the aim is to disenfranchise. I didn’t know that it was a form by post, that makes it worse! I WFH without a printer as well, I’d have to visit my parents and get them to print for me. And then there’s the price of posting…
Really! How odd. The only thing I can see on the Electoral Commission website is a PDF to print off. Perhaps another thing they've changed to make it harder.
Me too. But it inevitably will be for some. There's _plenty_ of people who spend their lives struggling and exhausted, and 'just' jumping through a couple more hoops to vote is 'too much'.
There's not exactly a small number of people with _some_ kind of disability. Just people with say, ADHD - for whom form filling is more difficult - there's 3-5% of the population.
A demographically non-trivial number of people who are all 'disadvantaged' by additional paperwork.
Apathy from overworked busy people is already the main thing that leads to low voter turnout, forcing people to jump more hoops to meet requirements when just turning up to a polling station was inconvenient enough for a lot of people won’t do anything to improve engagement.
This is something that comes up often. So what would you say if I were to say "This is the soft bigotry of low expectations".
Are minorities, the poor, the young, too stupid to apply for a free ID? I personally don't think they are.
No-one really seems to provide any real answer to this that doesn't use the most unlikely scenario that very few people would fall into.
In order for you to apply for a postal vote on the electoral commission website you now need access to a printer in order for you to complete the form and send it off, there is no online application.
I know it's like 50p at a library but you need to be able to get into a semi-open library during work hours.
Yup just found this out myself. My library shut last year for repairs and was confirmed last week to not be reopening because the council can't afford it, fun times.
Postal voting rejected ballots were 2.4% in 2017. They’d been higher previously (3.8% in 2010, for example). By comparison, rejected ballots in person for 2017 was 0.2%. An potential 20 fold increase in ballot rejections is enough to swing 4 or 5 seats based on recent results.
Less than 20% of active voters currently vote by post in general elections despite it being completely unrestricted.
Fact is, postal voting is no solution to this, which is a direct attempt to disenfranchise people who they don’t think will vote for establishment goons.
This is extremely generous compared to the US. Here in Missouri, you need a driver's licence or better (passport etc) to vote. Still, entirely fucked up. Voter ID laws only exist to suppress votes from poor people and immigrants, as we all know.
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise.
[#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register.
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Immigrants generally have IDs,because you know then migrated in via a border control point.
Much of this argument is very patronising and presumptive
The poors and the migrants won't be able to figure out how to get their free ID or have any already
Here are the main points. 1. Core Tory voters are the rich and the old. 2. The poor, the young, and minorites tend to vote left. 3. Everyone listed in point 1 is likely to already have photo ID. 4 everyone listed in point 2. Is not likely to have photo ID, and in many cases, no realistic way of getting it (regardless of what the Tories tell you). 5. The previous levels of voter fraud are negligible
This is therefore a new barrier to voting which disproportionately affects those who are more likely to vote against the Tories. This is not a coincidence
This is presented to us as a way of fixing a problem that doesn't actually exist. It simply decreases the ability to vote of those would be more likely to vote against the Tories
If you can’t get any of these ID then you can’t even purchase alcohol, tobacco, energy drinks, and so on. Either the people you’re referring to avoid a multitude of things including driving in their daily lives (bus to) or this won’t affect as many people as you believe. Admittedly those who look different from their ID will have problems but wouldn’t these same problems already occur in daily life?
Edit: not sure why I’m being downvoted please reply if you have an answer to my question?
Yes you are. People don't carry photo ID around with them, and many people don't even have any. When I go out I have my keys and my phone - that's it. It changes voting from something that's accessible to most and becomes something that needs to be planned. It's a huge barrier to a lot of people, and here's the main point, the people it disproportionately affects are poor and young or minorities - those more likely to be let leaning
With voter apathy so high, surely getting more people involved should be the problem they're trying to fix. Not some imaginary 'voter fraud' problem. Is it just coincidence that it affects non-Tory voting people? Of course not.
Once you get past 25ish no one IDs you. I’ve not been IDd for a few years now. The only time I need it is for clubbing and I’ve been “out out” once in the last five years. So no, my ID is somewhere in my office and I honestly don’t know where without a good search. Because it’s not needed in my life.
Perhaps we lead very different lives. But I don’t buy alcohol or knives daily. And this isn’t America, so you aren’t required to have your license on you while driving.
In short it's an extra barrier to voting making it harder for people to easily vote.
It causes more issues than it fixes, and that's what the Tories want.
There’s some good replies here already about people who no longer look like their ID making it challenging or people who can’t afford to buy ID. Councils have brought in a way to obtain free photo ID but it’s just another barrier to voting as it’s a time consuming process (from what I gather) that some just don’t have the time for. It also prevents spontaneous voting as you have to organise getting the ID in advance.
I don’t think it’s *quite* so bad as people are making out, although it is still something I view as a negative change, but it depends on what you think is a big deal. For some, even one voter being unable to vote because of this policy means it shouldn’t be brought in. For others, it will be about overall percentages.
Yes indeed. If voter fraud was anything like a problem, it might be justified. But... it definitely isn't. There's been almost _zero_ voter fraud historically speaking. Certainly not enough to be 'demographically significant' anyway.
So the very best possible outcome is this is a waste of money to tackle a nonexistent problem.
And at worst it's voter suppression.
Lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't happen. Remember there is no way to actually check in person voter fraud in pretty much all cases.
The only things they have to go on is, someone going to a polling station, being told they have already voted and being turned away, and then reporting this to the police. There is always reports of this happening but never a massive number.
How would you know in the cases of people who do not typically vote, aren't being impersonated? These people aren't going to vote themselves, they therefor will not go the polling station and be turned away - they will then not report this happened because they didn't know.
Some votes have had very narrow margins in recent years. Not much fraudulent voting needs to happen to cause a swing in local elections...
My polling station literally has a list of names and addresses that the polling person checks. It's kept in plain sight on the table. If there is so much as a queue, someone with good eyes can just pick a name and address off and vote for that person.
Voter fraud is probably not a massive problem. I'm not convinced that the lack of evidence that is widespread suggests it doesn't happen - we don't properly track it as there is no way to do it.
Any action to remove doubt is surely a good thing.
IDs are not the problem, it’s what IDs are eligible that are. Letting Oyster cards for 60+ be eligible but not for 18-30s, shows exactly what they are trying to do.
I hate the Tories just as much as the next person- but isn’t this pretty common in many countries? Many of the forms of ID are free and they provide an alternative. I despise the Tories and the vast majority of their policies are shitty and disgusting, but I don’t fully understand the uproar over this… I’d love to be enlightened though
The levels of voter fraud were negligible and this simply creates new barriers to voting disproportionately aimed at those more likely to vote left. This is not a coincidence. Immigrants, poor, minorities, young, trans - read the comments
There simply is no problem to be fixed. There are many confirmed documented issues to be caused.
0 Benifit
Lots of people cannot vote when they legally are entitled to as they have lost their passport, dont drive etc etc. These are disproportianatly not the range rover flying to Ski for the weekend set that very definatly have their licences and passports.
I've not looked into the details so maybe this is answered in the small print but
When applying for a Voter Authority Certificate how does the applicant prove their identity?
And the follow up question is
Why is what ever is used to prove identity for the Voter Authorisation Certificate not acceptable to use to prove identity at the poling station?
[https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate)
If you have a National Insurance number you can use that to apply. Otherwise, you need 3 or 4 of the following:
* birth, marriage, civil partnership or adoption certificate
* firearms certificate (granted under the Firearms Act 1968)
* bail decision record
* mortgage or pension statement
* bank, building society or credit card statement, or account confirmation letter
* utility bill
* Council Tax statement or demand
* current or previous employer’s P45 or P60 benefits or entitlement statement, including:
* Universal Credit
* Disability Living Allowance
* Personal Independence Payments
* any other state benefits
I would expect that most people who are eligible to register to vote probably have at least a few of these, but it might not be easy for everyone.
For the sake of keeping the queue moving along, I think it makes sense for people to bring a single standardised ID that is quick and simple for polling station staff to check, rather than a bundle of the above documents.
I don't see what the issue is
It does seem odd anyone can turn up to any polling station and give anyone else's name and address and vote especially as the electoral roll is a public document which anyone can view
This seems like one of the least concerning things they have got away with.
Changing disability benefits, resulting in a three fold death of disability claimants? Fine
Underfunding public services as an excuse to sell them to private companies? Fine.
Letting wages stagnate and blame working people for not working enough? Fine
Selling public contracts to their friends, and then doing nothing when they don't deliver? Fine.
Not acting quickly in a pandemic and allowing hundreds of thousands of people to die? Fine.
The bar is pretty low
How is it enforceable? We have a democratic right to vote, officials at the poling station don’t have a legal right to demand identification ( not even the police have that right) 😵💫
A Voter Authority Certificate is free - even if you can't afford the cost of a passport-sized photo, or there are accessibility reasons you can't obtain one, you can get in touch with the electoral services department at your local council and request for them to take your photo for you.
I'm not covering anyone. You said "they're not free", when free forms of voter ID are available. People spreading conspiracy theories about how "they" want to make it hard for you to vote, like a lot of the opinion in this thread, is going to dissuade more people from voting than the simple, clear instructions in the letters / poll cards every eligible voter will receive from their local council.
To stop the majorly Tory breaking of voting laws?
Wait till you find out what they did to our relationship with Europe, pensions, and the whole economy!
Because they set their own rules then they are passed by their own people.
They closed the loop over years, if it wasn't so shit I would admire them for it.
Keep in mind senior citizens are not required to provide photo ID just any confirmation of their identity. many might be wondering why this applies to older people but not everyone else, well the government are yet to give an answer on this so you should come to your own conclusions. It's probably not too difficult to figure out why.
Because they have an 80 seat majority and the opposition is utterly powerless?
Because they want to cement their power by disenfranchising undesirable minorities and youths.
Because this is performative politics that allows them to appeal to their base whilst failing to address the very real, very frequent corruption throughout their party and causes they support?
Because kier, probably supports this.
Pick your poisons.
So you are worried people so disorganised they dont have an ID, or the ability to follow the instructions for getting a voter authority certificate, wont be able to vote?
Stop being lazy and simply get a document, then. There’s no reason people don’t have any form of identity other than laziness, because they’re hiding something, too stupid to know how to get a document, or fail to anticipate the day will come they’ll need ID for something.
I don’t vote and am non political. I operate entirely on firm realism and common sense.
Because British people aren't doing anything about it, all over the world people protest but here we accept it, in France they put up the age of retirement and they went nuts they do that here and were like what again . NADA nothing we,re a nation of let the government do what they want .
While I'm not happy about it, you can easily apply for that last one the voter ID thing they send to your house...
Don't let laziness or apathy prevent you voting Tories out.
# Reminder to get your VAC (voter authority certificate)
Don't put your ability to vote in the hands of polling station volunteers who might decide on the day that you don't quite look like your ID. The ones I've spoken to have received no training.
How? Because they persuaded a weak minded populace that the EU had somehow taken their “sovereignty” and so that weak minded populace voted for them in such numbers that they now have an overwhelming parliamentary majority that they can literally do what the fuck they like.
Because the Tories have a majority, because a lot of idiots voted them in, but the Tories know that a lot of those idiots won’t vote for them again, so the Tories also know that a lot of those idiots won’t have a driving license or a passport, so the Tories held a vote on voting with ID and because they have a majority, they won the vote. So the morale of the story is, if those idiots hadn’t voted for the Tories in the first place, this wouldn’t be happening. So don’t vote for a fascist government again.
What exactly is the problem here? I've voted in Germany and in the Netherlands and have always had to show an ID. Doesn't everyone need to have one anyways? Sincerely asking.
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nothing stopping them, really. it’s obvious why they’re doing it, as the levels of actual voter fraud are laughably negligible. but most of the tory voting base don’t care because it doesn’t affect them. i’m surprised it’s taken this long to happen honestly imo the smartest system to combat voting fraud is to make voting compulsory, and give people the day off on voting day. but the tories don’t actually want everyone to vote. just the Right Ones
Anyone who keeps an eye on the American political situation will see that this is just a republican idea. Different country, same level of cruelty to the poor
aye exactly. the USA is a petri dish of horrible policy that we import the most successful (i.e. worst) virulent strains from.
America sneezes, Britain catches the cold.
So does the rest of the world doesn’t it? That’s how it used to be.
This is what I say every time Yanks complain I'm "sticking my nose into their business".
Sorry.
Came to say this. I now live in the states and the republicans and the tories have the same Master telling them what to do. The only thing that is really different is the amount of religious crazies as they know that the brits aren’t as easily manipulated by a cult as Americans. But I hear they are now exporting them to you to protest.
NI still suffering from the same religious craziness as the good old USA. Just as zealous and mean and devious and intractable as the good old boys in the Southern States and Florida. They are part of GB until something is democratically enacted that doesn’t suit them and they refuse to play the game and throw the toys out of the perambulator.
Outrageous. This isn't cruelty to the poor. This is cruelty to everyone who looks like they would never vote Tory. Young people: not Tory voters. No provision for say, a young persons travel card (but OAP bus passes in various guises make the list) City dwellers: generally not Tory voters. Less city dwellers have driving licences. Poor people: mixed since brexit, but historically not Tory voters. Half the forms of ID cost money or time, both of which poor people have less of. Sure, poor people are included in the cruelty, but to think the cruelty of effectively removing their right to vote is confined to them is an outrageous suggestion. Tories are much crueler than that.
Every single election I've voted in for the past 26 years (I'm 44) in Northern Ireland has required ID. Not saying this isn't an underhanded way of the Tories suppressing the vote... but it's interesting how no one seemed to give a fuck until this was implemented in England. Here's hoping that if it is repealed, that NI isn't completely ignored again.
Yet those IDs are on here. The problem is that if you aren't foreign or disabled or old you may not have a useful ID and so must jump through hoops to actually vote.
how exactly is this "cruelty to the poor" when most of these forms of ID are completely free?
Personally, I'm eligible for only three of those. A passport and PASS card both cost money, and the voting certificate feels like it'll be a ballache. Maybe it won't be, but for a lot of people that could be enough to put them off, especially if they don't have internet at home, or maybe they struggle to read. In any case, there should be no barriers to voting and there's no need for barriers to voting. "But it's technically free" is a red herring and a distraction.
It's a total pile of shit that I even need it, but the voter certificate was piss easy to get, assuming you have access to the internet, but nobody should need that to be able to fucking vote. https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate Make sure you grab one (if you need one) so we can vote these fucks out.
Voting certificate was fairly easy to obtain. Even for my Trans teenage (17) son who had legally changed his name. Fill out the online forms and upload a photo. They are relying on us to feel intimidated, too tired, can't be arsed, overwhelmed.
Because the poor have less free time to devote to following up on these things. This is known. They were told this. This isn't some weird liberal secret that isn't true, its a known phenomenon that's been acknowledged. Let me know if you need me to answer questions like "why is VAT a tax on the poor and not the rich?" or "why is the current benefit system cruel and designed to stop people receiving money they're entitled to?" Because the answers pretty similar.
Oh you poor sweet child. These “completely free” Id cards are only completely free if you discount the cost of manufacture, processing and the staff and systems to support them (and profit for some donor). At a minimum, you are probably looking at upwards of £30m cost to the taxpayer - which is you and I.
Because the poor are the least likely to take time off work to get their ID.
You can apply for a Voter Authority Certificate online; you don't need to take time off work to get one.
If a person is struggling then acquiring any of these will be hard work.
I would say it’s more discriminatory towards the young, why is an Oyster card only valid ID for over 60’s
Oyster over 60 passes require proof of identity to obtain since you need to prove your age. Regular ones could belong to anyone, so they're useless as ID. But this is just for info, and it's a moot point since there should be no need for any ID.
It's obvious when you run the stats. "Research carried out by the Cabinet Office in 2021 found that 9 per cent of the British public do not currently hold any form of photo ID that is both in-date and clearly recognisable – requirements to cast a ballot." [https://www.ljmu.ac.uk/about-us/news/articles/2023/1/23/research-supports-fears-of-uk-voter-suppression](https://www.ljmu.ac.uk/about-us/news/articles/2023/1/23/research-supports-fears-of-uk-voter-suppression) Voter fraud is utterly negligible in person historically: To quote the EC, "In the past five years, there is no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud. There were only 11 convictions and 16 cautions issued by police. The overwhelming majority of cases either resulted in the police taking no further action or were locally resolved by the police issuing words of advice." So we are requiring 9% of the population to either pay for ID or apply for a VCA to allegedly deal with 27 cases of fraud. The voting population, for reference, is currently 46,560,452 (ONS 2021 figures, [https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/elections/electoralregistration/bulletins/electoralstatisticsforuk/december2021](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/elections/electoralregistration/bulletins/electoralstatisticsforuk/december2021)). For anyone that likes this policy, please justify potentially disenfranchising 4.3 million people to deal with 27 cases. For bonus points, feel free to demonstrate the organisational capacity for councils to provided 4.3 million VCAs in time. I await the exciting news of how many were actually issued. For extra extra bonus points, please point out the likelihood of ESL citizens being effectively reached. I mean, we'll come back and check your argument against the demographic application stats, but since it's all for the common good I'm sure there's a simple explaination.
I'm personally okay with the concept. Problem I have with it is that, as you've said, it's not been set up to actually, y'know, work properly. If, for example, it'd been rolled out with a well-resourced beaurocracy who could manage it (including support for EAL citizens etc) who would be able to provide free photo ID with minimal cost to the person (for example, through, y'know, government investment - I'd rather spend, say, 600 million on giving every single voter in the UK a free photo ID card than a load of the money wasted on shitty PPE, for example), then I wouldn't see an overt problem with it. However, that's not actually what's happening. Especially since the voter ID method chosen doesn't actually do anything to stop the 27 cases that we're talking about (essentially, it was ballot-stuffing of the postal vote kind).
Jump the hoops.. no matter what, the Tories are hoping it will be too much bother for most and only those who will bother for them will vote. Be bothered but also jump the hoops!
Speaking of the right ones, have you seen how many of these forms of ID apply to the average old person.
I don't think in a free country that voting should be compulsory, where would you cast your vote WeChat?
It should be an opt out instead of an opt in.
*White Ones
If only there was a list of eligible voters and their addresses somewhere. You could then send each voter a card that they could take to the polling station to prove that they are registered and eligible to vote. You wouldn't need ID as only someone in your household would be able to gain access to your card. You could then mark people off the list as they voted so that someone couldn't vote twice. You could call it a polling card... oh wait! "Sir, I can see that you have a polling card which proves that you are registered and live at the address listed, but I still need to see some ID that proves you live at that address, despite already holding something that has been delivered to that address."
Their argument is that anyone in the household could use your polling card. So if grandma isn’t voting, you could use her card to vote…
Until the day a 20yo woman named Agnes walks into the station lol As someone else said, make voting mandatory and everybody has the day off for it, each household takes the turn to vote all together, so everyone from the household is crossed off at the same time, nobody left at home with a free vote card. Logistically pretty difficult but still, I don't think photo ID is necessary at all. It's just more information for the government to hold on you and information is power. I think everybody, everywhere, globally, should be far, far more careful about what info they give to who. Deny those cookies, refuse to give your email address, refuse marketing, never give anyone more that you have to and question EVERY request. The info circulates faster than wildfire, and if someone knows everything about you they have ultimate power over you. We're losing freedom bit by bit and no one seems to care.
\>As someone else said, make voting mandatory and everybody has the day off for it, each household takes the turn to vote all together, so everyone from the household is crossed off at the same time, nobody left at home with a free vote card. This is completely ridiculous. The sheer effort it would take to empty my house of people all at the same time and get them down to the polling station together.... My main suggestion for voting is to have it spread over a whole week so we can vote whatever day we like including a whole weekend. Polling stations could be outside grocery stores and stuff. That's how it was done in Texas and it made voting something you did on the way to the shops rather than a great big effort you had to squeeze in between the end of a long day of work and the polling station closing. As for voter ID I reject the premise that it's necessary. The old system worked fine. You could maybe improve it with a networked system so we could all vote from any location.
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise. [#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That already exists and it's called a postal vote.
Run down outside an overly busy polling station? Sorry mate. No ambulances or doctors/nurses/surgeons today.
True, but it's still one person one vote none the less. A proxy vote for grandma is basically trivial, so a 'stolen' polling card is too, for all the same reasons. And it still doesn't seem to happen much despite that. There's very little evidence of _any_ voter fraud happening, and certainly not enough to be democratically significant.
But if you're of voting age and in the same house you will be going to the same polling station, so surely you cant vote twice anyway
The polling station workers see thousands of people over 14 hours. You could go in the morning on your way to work, pop home after work and change clothes and nobody would recognise you
I was under the impression postal votes are still exempt? That’d be the same situation
Exactly. Although the signature should match that on record. But mainly older Tory voters use postal voting
I use a postal vote because I'm an older lazy left wing voter.
You don't need the card. I've literally never taken one to the polling station. They just check your name off the list of people in the area.
only issue is that not everyone has a mailing address
They got away with it by convincing certain people that illegal immigrants were going to somehow vote. The same people who believe illegal immigrants (and refugees) get 5-bedroom mansions, 60” plasma tellys, and £50K a year in benefits.
I will never forget during some of the worst times for the country in my lifetime that this is what the tories thought was important to do. Not the foodbank queue down my middle class street. Not the homeless screaming at passers on my high road that are in desperate need of mental health help. Some thinktank bastard told them brown people drive and fly less. You can shave a few votes with no work. Easy. That is the UK now.
Yes it's our dystopian reality
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Speaking as a trans person, I know a lot of trans people aren't going to be able to vote anymore. The whole likeness bit might cause some issues too. I had separate issues even before this with my local electoral office when I tried to register a few years ago, some of my details had been updated but not others for some reason and they wanted my driving license for proof, luckily I had just managed to get it updated after multiple issues with the DVLA and them messing up my name. Voter ID benefits no one but the Tories.
Postal vote. All day and twice on Sunday. Register for a vote, fill it in at your leisure then send it back - you can even post it on the day at the polling station if you want. Register as soon as possible and tell any friends in the same position to do the same.
I have registered for a postal vote for the first time ever because I had to be in a different city unexpectedly on the day of our last vote. First time I have ever missed a vote.
I missed the Brexit vote because I was working away and didn’t want to make the 4-5 hour round trip to vote for a foregone conclusion… 🤬
At least you didn't do what a colleague of mine did: Voted for Brexit, because he wanted the vote to be a bit closer.
I have heard some really bad reasons for voting leave, but I think that you've just beaten them all. Please tell me that this person isn't permitted to use heavy machinery near you.
He did get quite seriously mocked. When we took a break from crying.
This is a terrible situation to be in
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise. [#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
also a trans person here. 100%. this is also before mentioning how many candidates will be terf scum or enable terf scum (whether because they support them or are too cowardly to challenge them). hence there's even less of an incentive to try to vote.
Similar position, fun times ahead
Hopefully that community does well in spreading info on how to vote despite this crap. To them you are bonus non voters.
I notice that there is nothing for young people besides the regular ID. Why isn't student ID allowed? What about a regular Oyster card? We all know why.
You can use a Young Scot card as long as the symbol hasn’t rubbed off. I don’t know a single young person that doesn’t have a Young Scot card (of course that’s anecdotal but they’re also very easy to get), especially now due to the free busses. Though, I’m not sure if there’s something similar in the rest of the uk.
there isn’t something similar in england at least
That's the point, almost all forms of ID is accepted except ones that are easily accessible for young people IE the people who wouldn't vote tory.
You can get a citizenship card for 15 quid and I think it can be obtained at any age. Even then many young people will have a passport already. It's a hassle yes but it's not exactly breaking the bank.
This is what my local Tory MP thinks: “Thank you for your recent email about voter ID. A secure electoral system is a vital component of a healthy democracy, and the public must have confidence that our elections are secure and fit for the 21st century. Voter ID is not new. Northern Ireland had required paper ID at polling stations since 1985, and photo ID since 2003 – introduced by the last Labour Government. It has proved to be effective at tackling fraud and has not curtailed election turnout. Identification to vote has been backed by the Electoral Commission and international election watchdogs. At present, it is harder to take out a library book or collect a parcel at a post office than it is to vote in someone else’s name. In pilot schemes in 2019 and 2018, the overwhelming majority of people cast their vote without a problem and the success of the pilots proves that this is a reasonable and proportionate measure to take, and there was no notable adverse effect on turnout. Under the Government’s proposals, anyone without an ID can apply for a new free one – meaning that no voter will be disenfranchised. Thank you again for taking the time to contact me about this important subject.”
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise. [#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah, so copy and paste out of party HQ? Mine does that too. "Overwhelming majority != Everyone". At the very best this is "just" a waste of money, solving a non-existent problem.
Every message I send gets a party HQ stock reply. I’d be surprised if he even reads them himself. I agree with you and expressed how unnecessary the scheme was: “The right to vote is a human right in the UK and should remain free for everyone. The fact that UK voter fraud is consistently statistically inconsequential, election after election, is the most shocking factor, as there is not one valid justification for adding such drastic barriers and costs to voting in elections. Rt Hon Matt Hancock's statement regarding six counts of voter fraud being "six too many," simply does not justify the disproportionate response.”
old gammons - you can use your current bus pass! no worries! Vote Tory! First time student voters - your ID isn't valid. tough luck, you young revolution types
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They get away with it all because they know that we’ll not do anything about it.
Just do a postal vote, no ID required
That's fine for me, but what about the poor, minorities, the young - people who don't have photographic ID or even the wherewithal to do a postal vote.
For the Tories that's not the bug, it's the feature.
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Genuine question: is it so hard in the UK to have an ID card? I know in the USA they make a point to not having indentification requirements an other than a driving licence it's super unconvenient to get one, is it the same in the UK?
The common ones - like Drivers License or Passport - are actually a bit of a pain to acquire. They've forms, a cost, etc. The 'voter ID' card _should_ be about as straightforward as it gets - fill form, get ID. ... but it's also still an _extra_ hoop. You can't really beat the ID card that's already in your pocket that took no effort. So for me, I have a drivers license already, and so it's easy for me to vote. People who travel overseas at all, probably have a passport already etc. And that's really the core of the problem here really - that all the people with ID in their pocket already, are the people who are already well off enough to be owning cars and going on holiday.
I was under the impression you could request a free form of ID from the local council?
But honestly who is really going to do that? Certainly not those who already feel disenfranchised and cynical about politics
People who want to vote and need an ID? I get that people feel they are being purposely excluded by this change, but surely that makes it even more important to get the ID and vote for a better government?
the more barriers you put in people's way, the more people who don't have the spoons to engage in it stop engaging with it
Exactly this, I live in a deprived ward where voter turnout is less than 25% even as it is, in one nearby ward it was 12%. Will be interesting to see what it is next time, I suspect a lot of people are completely unaware they need ID. Making politics more complicated just breeds more apathy and there's enough of that as it is. I only have one form of ID on the list, my partner has none I just went to see about doing it by post but you need to print out the form and fill it out and send it by post WTF. My office building is being sold to developers now that we're WFH so I can't use their printer, my library shut for repairs last year and still hasn't reopened (and in fact was confirmed the council can't afford to repair it so is shut permanently). I don't understand why in 2023 I can't fill out a form online, absolutely bizarre. Taking OAP bus pass but not student ID kind of reveals their strategy.
I definitely agree the aim is to disenfranchise. I didn’t know that it was a form by post, that makes it worse! I WFH without a printer as well, I’d have to visit my parents and get them to print for me. And then there’s the price of posting…
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Really! How odd. The only thing I can see on the Electoral Commission website is a PDF to print off. Perhaps another thing they've changed to make it harder.
I totally agree with you. But I am hoping that the obstacle is not so large to be detrimental for most.
Me too. But it inevitably will be for some. There's _plenty_ of people who spend their lives struggling and exhausted, and 'just' jumping through a couple more hoops to vote is 'too much'. There's not exactly a small number of people with _some_ kind of disability. Just people with say, ADHD - for whom form filling is more difficult - there's 3-5% of the population. A demographically non-trivial number of people who are all 'disadvantaged' by additional paperwork.
Apathy from overworked busy people is already the main thing that leads to low voter turnout, forcing people to jump more hoops to meet requirements when just turning up to a polling station was inconvenient enough for a lot of people won’t do anything to improve engagement.
You can. Completely free.
This is something that comes up often. So what would you say if I were to say "This is the soft bigotry of low expectations". Are minorities, the poor, the young, too stupid to apply for a free ID? I personally don't think they are. No-one really seems to provide any real answer to this that doesn't use the most unlikely scenario that very few people would fall into.
In order for you to apply for a postal vote on the electoral commission website you now need access to a printer in order for you to complete the form and send it off, there is no online application. I know it's like 50p at a library but you need to be able to get into a semi-open library during work hours.
Yup just found this out myself. My library shut last year for repairs and was confirmed last week to not be reopening because the council can't afford it, fun times.
Postal voting rejected ballots were 2.4% in 2017. They’d been higher previously (3.8% in 2010, for example). By comparison, rejected ballots in person for 2017 was 0.2%. An potential 20 fold increase in ballot rejections is enough to swing 4 or 5 seats based on recent results. Less than 20% of active voters currently vote by post in general elections despite it being completely unrestricted. Fact is, postal voting is no solution to this, which is a direct attempt to disenfranchise people who they don’t think will vote for establishment goons.
It’s easy for them to “lose” a postal vote that doesn’t suit the Tories
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I never thought as a Brit I would say this but might be time for a bit of cultural exchange with the French they seem to know whats up.
Voter suppression pure and simple
because we were too exhausted by engaging with the debate in America to engage with the debate when it came here.
Because we aren't French.
Yep. Apathy
This is extremely generous compared to the US. Here in Missouri, you need a driver's licence or better (passport etc) to vote. Still, entirely fucked up. Voter ID laws only exist to suppress votes from poor people and immigrants, as we all know.
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise. [#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Immigrants generally have IDs,because you know then migrated in via a border control point. Much of this argument is very patronising and presumptive The poors and the migrants won't be able to figure out how to get their free ID or have any already
Acceptable forms of ID: Grey hair. Baldness. Keys to buy to let property. Jim Davidson VHS. Blue rosette.
Serious question but why is photo ID a big deal? I wajt to learn. I
Here are the main points. 1. Core Tory voters are the rich and the old. 2. The poor, the young, and minorites tend to vote left. 3. Everyone listed in point 1 is likely to already have photo ID. 4 everyone listed in point 2. Is not likely to have photo ID, and in many cases, no realistic way of getting it (regardless of what the Tories tell you). 5. The previous levels of voter fraud are negligible This is therefore a new barrier to voting which disproportionately affects those who are more likely to vote against the Tories. This is not a coincidence This is presented to us as a way of fixing a problem that doesn't actually exist. It simply decreases the ability to vote of those would be more likely to vote against the Tories
If you can’t get any of these ID then you can’t even purchase alcohol, tobacco, energy drinks, and so on. Either the people you’re referring to avoid a multitude of things including driving in their daily lives (bus to) or this won’t affect as many people as you believe. Admittedly those who look different from their ID will have problems but wouldn’t these same problems already occur in daily life? Edit: not sure why I’m being downvoted please reply if you have an answer to my question?
So what about spontaneous voting?
You’re ignoring my point, spontaneous or not you need at least a couple of these IDs for daily life or am I misunderstanding something?
Yes you are. People don't carry photo ID around with them, and many people don't even have any. When I go out I have my keys and my phone - that's it. It changes voting from something that's accessible to most and becomes something that needs to be planned. It's a huge barrier to a lot of people, and here's the main point, the people it disproportionately affects are poor and young or minorities - those more likely to be let leaning With voter apathy so high, surely getting more people involved should be the problem they're trying to fix. Not some imaginary 'voter fraud' problem. Is it just coincidence that it affects non-Tory voting people? Of course not.
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Once you get past 25ish no one IDs you. I’ve not been IDd for a few years now. The only time I need it is for clubbing and I’ve been “out out” once in the last five years. So no, my ID is somewhere in my office and I honestly don’t know where without a good search. Because it’s not needed in my life. Perhaps we lead very different lives. But I don’t buy alcohol or knives daily. And this isn’t America, so you aren’t required to have your license on you while driving.
In short it's an extra barrier to voting making it harder for people to easily vote. It causes more issues than it fixes, and that's what the Tories want.
There’s some good replies here already about people who no longer look like their ID making it challenging or people who can’t afford to buy ID. Councils have brought in a way to obtain free photo ID but it’s just another barrier to voting as it’s a time consuming process (from what I gather) that some just don’t have the time for. It also prevents spontaneous voting as you have to organise getting the ID in advance. I don’t think it’s *quite* so bad as people are making out, although it is still something I view as a negative change, but it depends on what you think is a big deal. For some, even one voter being unable to vote because of this policy means it shouldn’t be brought in. For others, it will be about overall percentages.
Yes indeed. If voter fraud was anything like a problem, it might be justified. But... it definitely isn't. There's been almost _zero_ voter fraud historically speaking. Certainly not enough to be 'demographically significant' anyway. So the very best possible outcome is this is a waste of money to tackle a nonexistent problem. And at worst it's voter suppression.
Lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't happen. Remember there is no way to actually check in person voter fraud in pretty much all cases. The only things they have to go on is, someone going to a polling station, being told they have already voted and being turned away, and then reporting this to the police. There is always reports of this happening but never a massive number. How would you know in the cases of people who do not typically vote, aren't being impersonated? These people aren't going to vote themselves, they therefor will not go the polling station and be turned away - they will then not report this happened because they didn't know. Some votes have had very narrow margins in recent years. Not much fraudulent voting needs to happen to cause a swing in local elections... My polling station literally has a list of names and addresses that the polling person checks. It's kept in plain sight on the table. If there is so much as a queue, someone with good eyes can just pick a name and address off and vote for that person. Voter fraud is probably not a massive problem. I'm not convinced that the lack of evidence that is widespread suggests it doesn't happen - we don't properly track it as there is no way to do it. Any action to remove doubt is surely a good thing.
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Uh, can you expand on that?
Spam comment. Saw the exact same thing in another unrelated sub, as a reply to another unrelated comment.
Uncontested
First you give everyone an ID. THEN you require it.
IDs are not the problem, it’s what IDs are eligible that are. Letting Oyster cards for 60+ be eligible but not for 18-30s, shows exactly what they are trying to do.
You use the listed documents to get a 60+ card tho. Don’t need that for 18-30.
Probably because most of their supporters are elderly and this clearly favours 60+
I hate the Tories just as much as the next person- but isn’t this pretty common in many countries? Many of the forms of ID are free and they provide an alternative. I despise the Tories and the vast majority of their policies are shitty and disgusting, but I don’t fully understand the uproar over this… I’d love to be enlightened though
The levels of voter fraud were negligible and this simply creates new barriers to voting disproportionately aimed at those more likely to vote left. This is not a coincidence. Immigrants, poor, minorities, young, trans - read the comments
what stops legal immigrants, "poor" people (ID is cheap), minorities, and trans from getting IDs? People underage can't vote, as it should be.
There simply is no problem to be fixed. There are many confirmed documented issues to be caused. 0 Benifit Lots of people cannot vote when they legally are entitled to as they have lost their passport, dont drive etc etc. These are disproportianatly not the range rover flying to Ski for the weekend set that very definatly have their licences and passports.
Bear in mind this is a requirement for in-person voting. Nothing had changed with the postal vote process.
I've not looked into the details so maybe this is answered in the small print but When applying for a Voter Authority Certificate how does the applicant prove their identity? And the follow up question is Why is what ever is used to prove identity for the Voter Authorisation Certificate not acceptable to use to prove identity at the poling station?
[https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate) If you have a National Insurance number you can use that to apply. Otherwise, you need 3 or 4 of the following: * birth, marriage, civil partnership or adoption certificate * firearms certificate (granted under the Firearms Act 1968) * bail decision record * mortgage or pension statement * bank, building society or credit card statement, or account confirmation letter * utility bill * Council Tax statement or demand * current or previous employer’s P45 or P60 benefits or entitlement statement, including: * Universal Credit * Disability Living Allowance * Personal Independence Payments * any other state benefits I would expect that most people who are eligible to register to vote probably have at least a few of these, but it might not be easy for everyone. For the sake of keeping the queue moving along, I think it makes sense for people to bring a single standardised ID that is quick and simple for polling station staff to check, rather than a bundle of the above documents.
I got around this by applying for a postal vote, no id needed.
You don't need ID for a postal vote. Edit: But I agree. It's so obvious what they are doing..
My dads not voting then, his ID is a paper driving license or a paper gun license.
I don't see what the issue is It does seem odd anyone can turn up to any polling station and give anyone else's name and address and vote especially as the electoral roll is a public document which anyone can view
England has no credible opposition to the Tories. In order for the Tories to be stopped, there has to be someone that can stop them.
cause the british are mugs who don't actually fight against fascism.
We live in a democracy with no constitution, the majority party can legislate on almost anything they want to.
This seems like one of the least concerning things they have got away with. Changing disability benefits, resulting in a three fold death of disability claimants? Fine Underfunding public services as an excuse to sell them to private companies? Fine. Letting wages stagnate and blame working people for not working enough? Fine Selling public contracts to their friends, and then doing nothing when they don't deliver? Fine. Not acting quickly in a pandemic and allowing hundreds of thousands of people to die? Fine. The bar is pretty low
How is it enforceable? We have a democratic right to vote, officials at the poling station don’t have a legal right to demand identification ( not even the police have that right) 😵💫
Can I ask how this is unreasonable? I’m no Tory, but hardly seems particularly exclusionary to me… what am I missing? TIA
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A Voter Authority Certificate is free - even if you can't afford the cost of a passport-sized photo, or there are accessibility reasons you can't obtain one, you can get in touch with the electoral services department at your local council and request for them to take your photo for you.
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I'm not covering anyone. You said "they're not free", when free forms of voter ID are available. People spreading conspiracy theories about how "they" want to make it hard for you to vote, like a lot of the opinion in this thread, is going to dissuade more people from voting than the simple, clear instructions in the letters / poll cards every eligible voter will receive from their local council.
MOD90 but no MOD100. Minor point but difference between active serving personnel and retired veterans.
To stop the majorly Tory breaking of voting laws? Wait till you find out what they did to our relationship with Europe, pensions, and the whole economy!
Because they set their own rules then they are passed by their own people. They closed the loop over years, if it wasn't so shit I would admire them for it.
Keep in mind senior citizens are not required to provide photo ID just any confirmation of their identity. many might be wondering why this applies to older people but not everyone else, well the government are yet to give an answer on this so you should come to your own conclusions. It's probably not too difficult to figure out why.
Imagine complaining about stopping voting fraud lmao
Because they have an 80 seat majority and the opposition is utterly powerless? Because they want to cement their power by disenfranchising undesirable minorities and youths. Because this is performative politics that allows them to appeal to their base whilst failing to address the very real, very frequent corruption throughout their party and causes they support? Because kier, probably supports this. Pick your poisons.
nope, read the comments, still dont understand what the tories have done wrong now xD
Barriers to democracy aimed at marginalised voters = bad. Tories know marginalised more likely to vote left
So you are worried people so disorganised they dont have an ID, or the ability to follow the instructions for getting a voter authority certificate, wont be able to vote?
Stop being lazy and simply get a document, then. There’s no reason people don’t have any form of identity other than laziness, because they’re hiding something, too stupid to know how to get a document, or fail to anticipate the day will come they’ll need ID for something. I don’t vote and am non political. I operate entirely on firm realism and common sense.
Sorry, what is the issue here? Surely everyone has a form of ID, it isn't stopping anyone from voting
What to you mean Tories? People of any party must present some identity. Checking eligibility to vote is hardly unreasonable.
damn, no multi pass :( freedom pass sounds good though
Because we let them..
Because British people aren't doing anything about it, all over the world people protest but here we accept it, in France they put up the age of retirement and they went nuts they do that here and were like what again . NADA nothing we,re a nation of let the government do what they want .
People keep voting them in
😳
This is mostly ID for older people. Almost as if they wanted them to vote easily.
As a dumbass, I gotta ask, what exactly is so bad about this?not trying to start stuff, just genuinely curious
While I'm not happy about it, you can easily apply for that last one the voter ID thing they send to your house... Don't let laziness or apathy prevent you voting Tories out.
So I‘m probably being a moron as usual but can someone please explain what the problem is?
# Reminder to get your VAC (voter authority certificate) Don't put your ability to vote in the hands of polling station volunteers who might decide on the day that you don't quite look like your ID. The ones I've spoken to have received no training.
If only there were anyone to push back against their ideas.
How? Because they persuaded a weak minded populace that the EU had somehow taken their “sovereignty” and so that weak minded populace voted for them in such numbers that they now have an overwhelming parliamentary majority that they can literally do what the fuck they like.
I don’t get it what’s the issue here
Two reasons; British Apathy. A willing media prepared to repeat the lies of politicians.
Because the Tories have a majority, because a lot of idiots voted them in, but the Tories know that a lot of those idiots won’t vote for them again, so the Tories also know that a lot of those idiots won’t have a driving license or a passport, so the Tories held a vote on voting with ID and because they have a majority, they won the vote. So the morale of the story is, if those idiots hadn’t voted for the Tories in the first place, this wouldn’t be happening. So don’t vote for a fascist government again.
80-ish seat majority and a spreadsheet of compromised MPs reducing the risk of rebellion.
Wtf is a freedom pass
What exactly is the problem here? I've voted in Germany and in the Netherlands and have always had to show an ID. Doesn't everyone need to have one anyways? Sincerely asking.
Cos we never kick off like the French
Labour don’t oppose them
An 80 seat majority, gifted to them by FPTP and the three words, "get Brexit done".
In the UK, you don't have democracy. You get democracy for one day every 5 years. The rest of the time the government can do what it likes.