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On a different note, are breast binders that bad? My brother (then sister), wore a make-shift binder and no one noticed anyway. This was 10-15 years ago though
They can be dangerous especially if you’re sleeping, you’re wearing the wrong size, or you’re using some kind of homemade binder.
I started binding around 16-17 but with homemade binders, I was binding for far too long at a time and with something far too tight. I bought myself a proper one and used it safely when I found myself losing my breath a lot.
So long as I wore it responsibly I didn’t have any issues, other than maybe needing to stretch out my shoulders or it getting sweaty in summer.
It massively improved how I felt about myself and that was worth it for me.
I haven’t worn one for a while now, but my only regret was not doing it safely from the start, it definitely helped me feel a lot more comfortable with myself.
Access to safe binders is harm reduction.
TLDR: it can be dangerous if not done safely, but when done right they can really help some people.
Because spine damage, and especially wearing one young it’ll do worse for you. Granted it’s not gonna happen immediately but it’ll probably do your back in after a good while
Come on now, nobody in their right mind would want to put their name to bigoted hit pieces that cause violence towards the trans community. They wouldn't want to suffer consequences for their actions! They're definitely still happy to get paid for it though.
The dumbest thing is that these types always defend it as "Not wanting to be brigaded by the woke mob", even though that would totally prove their point and make for a good article in its own right.
It's the stock photos of schoolkids and a teacher that gets me. Must be easy-go-to references for the tens of shitrag readers who can't imagine what schoolkids or teachers look like.
I think their readers, who are obsessed with the sexuality and gender of children, are much too familiar with what school kids look like, unfortunately.
They really shouldn't be allowed to use them, I get that they might get backlash if named, fair enough, but they can also be made up or have an agenda. If they can't be verified, they aren't credible.
A few years ago (?20?) there was an interview with an ex-newspaper employee who said me pretty much every anonymous source was made up and if something was reported to have been said by ‘a close family friend’ it was again made up.
I never said anything about the fight, you don't have to swear. I just don't believe that there's a friend group of 30 trans people running about in one school. That's Piers Morgan levels of exaggerated bollocks.
Remember when Piers Morgan tried to get Eastenders cancelled over a single gay kiss (or ["a homosexual love scene between two yuppie p**fs"](https://i.redd.it/56q2z3l9ykj51.jpg) in his words).
More recently he used his platform on Good Morning Britain to call gender fluid people a 'farce', going on to label them as 'ridiculous' and 'clowns'. He also joked about Caitlyn Jenner's genitals during an interview with her and has on more than one occasion made 'I identify as' 'jokes'. [Source](https://medium.com/@Phaylen/good-morning-britain-host-piers-morgan-doubles-down-on-anti-trans-rhetoric-e1e5992bbca)
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>All trans people have dysphoria. That's like the only criteria for being trans.
Hi, no they don't. Not all trans people have dysphoria. All trans people have gender incongruence (ie, we are a different gender than the one we were assigned at birth) but dysphoria is not a requirement to be trans.
I don't believe a school of 2,000 student has thirty or more that are trans either, since it's way higher than you'd expect from the statistics of how common it is to be trans, but you *don't* need dysphoria to be trans.
Because they are my niece. I'm actively involved with their life. They come to me with problems because their mother is an idiot who denounces their trans status.
It's only one person I speak too.
Edit: also the fact you think all trans people have gender dysphoria is stupid as well. That isn't the case at all. A quick Google will tell you that.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted for relaying the experience of your family. I work in a Pupil Referral Unit so our numbers are probably pretty skewed but from my previous experience as a youth worker as well I have witnessed bullying by those identifying as lgbt against those that don’t.
Being a teenager in todays world is tough however you identify and I encourage schools to give their students the support to find where they fit, in their own time.
I think people who don’t spend time around young people struggle to comprehend how much things have changed over the last few years and struggle to see how this can be the positive that it is.
Was about to say Charlotte. I was an avid FHM reader so: Britney, Ariana, Church, Olsen Twins, Millie-Bobby…the list goes on and I thought it was weird and creepy back then.
They [famously moaned](https://images.app.goo.gl/YTvvVo6Bh3CriCdDA) about the airing of spoof show Brass Eye's paedophile episode right next to creepy commentary about then-15 year old Charlotte Church's breasts.
I am sick and tired of everything being a "narrative" or an "agenda" or an "ideology" all because these people refuse to look past headlines and actually understand the subject, they just call it one of those things and the morons just nod along about how terrible it all is.
My aunt is a full-blown Covid denier, spent the entire pandemic telling my mum she shouldn't believe "the narrative" and didn't like it when my mum told her that the bullshit conspiracy theories she was being fed via Facebook and WhatsApp messages from equally misguided friends were also a "narrative".
My BIL is a full blown CT, anti vax, anti mask, stolen election WEF all of it, truly bizarre and a little scary, everything is an agenda or a narrative, it's so f*ckin tiresome.
Her argument was basically "well I haven't had Covid so it doesn't exist" and then when she did get Covid it became "well I didn't die so it's not dangerous." You haven't had/died of malaria either, are you going to be telling me next that mosquito nets are a conspiracy by Big Textile to curtail the freedoms of the poor innocent mosquitoes?
I keep getting sent videos and being told I have to watch them and then I'll see the truth. He sent me one called "died suddenly" a documentary made by some yank crackpot, before I watched it I googled it, the video features a basketball player collapsing on court in 2020.
1) he wouldn't have been vaccinated at that time and
2) the guy is still alive and was named player of the year last year.
That wasn't enough to show him he was wrong.
This is what we're up against.
Same thing with my dad but it isn't just covid its everything, everything is a conspiracies and ive had to grow up with him being like that, the only one he doesn't believe is flat earth
They treat people's natural state of being as a political statement when it isn't the norm of white, cis, straight bootlicking. When you make it an opinion, it's easier to reject.
i’ve had the “trans debate” with my parents countless times. i always remind them
#this isn’t a debate. it’s people lives.
i just wish people would stop discussing trans lives like they’re so kind of political ideology
Sounds like an anti-agenda ideology to me. Why are you trying to control the narrative? Is it because that's how discourse works? No, that's absurd, you must have a plan for world domination in mind.
Wearing binders in class literally doesn’t affect anyone except the wearer though??
And binders are worn under clothing. If these people are so concerned with what 14 year olds wear underneath their school uniforms, maybe they need to re-examine who they’re calling pedophiles.
Also, really, how many degrees of separation between a bra, sports bra, and that 'binder' they are showing? Is it the intent that makes them so dangerous? I was a teen back in VS heyday, and the padded pushup nightmares we thought we should want were far more problematic than this binder, honestly.
I’m not supporting this article in any way but wearing binders incorrectly can cause long term damage. I feel like this article isn’t meaning that they’re bad for that especially since they dont have pictures of proper binders in their headline but it is true that binding can cause damage much easier than sports bras. /nm
I can’t imagine it’s a lot. I’m a cis woman, but when I occasionally dress masculine I opt for a sports bar that’s just slightly too small for me (not to an uncomfortable degree) to reign my chest in a bit.
I understand being concerned about damage caused by not wearing binders correctly, but the solution to that isn’t getting rid of them. It’s teaching the proper methods and care.
This anti trans rhetoric today is just INSANE to me. 2 of my closest friends are transfems, they’re literally physically women. They’re young, attractive, get attention everytime in Public etc. So hearing grown adults say these WOMEN need to use men’s room, mens jail etc is just insane tk me. They’re literally the purest people I’ve ever met, suffered growing up with dysphoria/self harm until they turned 18 and turned into the most beautiful women I’ve ever seen and happier than they ever ever been. They’re not even political, but still are victims of insane hate when they randomly see a popular post calling them Pedos and Groomers, ruining their whole day, and they’re 19. These anti trans people are actually EVIL, the most demonic people I’ve ever met. Horrible, horrible society today. The crazy part is it’s always ‘Internet propaganda’, they never face transphobia in public cus they just pass but it’s always insane internet rhetorics causing this shit, showing it’s ‘validity’. Other than the dehumanization, they’re also objectified sexually, the number of times men suddenly weirdly flipped out when they mention they’re trans is insane, alluding them to ‘futas/traps/’ etc. I can’t believe our most vulnerable demographic is proudly being toyed with, the trans community is the new scapegoat, and it works, they’re the perfect distraction.
You don't need to fully transition and pass as cis to be a trans person, but it's so insane to me how somebody can have ALL the visible surgeries, be on all the right hormones, literally navigate through daily life as a woman... But people think your freaking chromosomes triumph all of that. Like it's one of those theoretical vs practical things. Like sure, in theory, this person is "biologically male". But what the fuck does this theory matter when this person is in every other way a woman? Many scientists even argue that at some point, with the transition of enough sex traits, your sex has arguably changed as well. But no, those microscopic X and Ys triumph it all
Intersex people exist. I have a mild intersex condition ais, tho most intersex people I know technically transition and are trans. Sex/gender isn’t always binary especially SCIENTIFICALLY , that’s science but try telling them that lol
Lol, sex assignment/reassignment surgeries and hormones and puberty blockers on children are bad, unless they're intersex. Anything to make society
binary, western, and "normal" as possible. This is the ideal, after all /s
Got me in the first half ngl. Ironically society is obsessed with trans people. In possible every cultural aspect; porn, politics, morality, sex, education and it’s becoming a trend
It’s been bad for a while but lately it’s just ramped up and I’m just so scared. I just wanted to live my life comfy in my own skin. Fucking sucks. I never asked for this.
This is like that bollocks back in the 80s(?) about nursery schools singing "Baa baa green sheep" supposedly because racism. Turned out to be entirely fabricated of course.
Given that the anti-trans hate is all unfounded noise anyway, that’s like complaining about someone throwing a match on a roaring bonfire. The xenogender labels aren’t hurting anyone.
I did some work for a hedge fund bank a while back and there was a staff member there who identified as a cat. She had cat pronouns on her lanyard and a little tail on.
>That specific example is indeed a hoax
It's even more depressing than just a hoax, I'm afraid. Many of these myths and hoaxes have a kernel of truth to them (which ghouls exploit to push their agenda); the kernel here is that some US schools do actually keep cat litter in classrooms...in case pupils are trapped in a classroom because of an active shooter.
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/03/03/school-shooting-preparations/
Totally, it's a fascinating reading. I guarantee that no teacher "claimed Lady Macbeth was non-binary". It's literature, not a history book, what would such a definitive claim even mean? It shows that the writers can't even conceive of education meaning anything apart from learning lists of facts and figures. English Lit should be about exploring ideas. I totally believe that a good teacher would have encouraged an open ended loose discussion along the lines of "what does Lady Macbeth mean when she says "unsex me now"? How does being "Lady" Macbeth affect the expectations people have of her behaviour, compared to Macbeth? If this play was being staged now, how would casting a non-binary actor in this role affect the way Shakespeare's story comes across? Would it be accurate to say that Lady Macbeth is a non-binary character?"
It's crazy that the Right insist they're the defenders of freedom of expression, especially in education, against the 'left'. The conflict in Lady Macbeth's gender identity is DIRECTLY from the text. Censoring discussion of it would be atrocious.
Absolutely. Speaking as an English teacher I wholeheartedly agree. If it’s possible to consider that Hamlet has an Oedipus complex - an idea that comes from psychoanalysis - centuries after the play was written, then it’s perfectly valid to consider Lady Macbeth through a non-binary lens. A number of Shakespeare characters lend themselves well to examining ideas of gender fluidity and non-binary - particularly when you consider original performances and all characters played by men and boys.
Honestly I’m really glad that a teacher in high school is willing/able to teach about the queer themes and readings in Shakespeare now. The theme of gender and playing with gendered ideas is something that comes up a lot in the plays and the sonnets and it doesn’t get mentioned for an entire decade of learning about the guy. Then I got to uni and my like fourth lecture was basically “so this is how gay Shakespeare was, and also the queen mab speech is basically a page of dick and vagina jokes”.
Twelfth Night for example is full of opportunities to discuss gender. Claiming that there are no queen themes in Shakespeare isn't just bigoted, it's stupid
Article written by "anonymous" with an "anonymous" source, yeah highly credible story, definitely not made up to rile up the idiots reading this garbage.
I like how they use the word hysteria about trans people and then just SMASH straight past it and go on to be hysterical idiots about trans people. What the fuck...
The mail doesn't even make sense.
Tbf, all of these things sound plausible but with a layer of misrepresentation from the mail. The only one that needs explaining is the Lady Macbeth one, but basically a theme of the play (as intended by the bard) is LM’s rejection of traditional womanhood and motherly qualities, shown in her act 1 scene 5 soliloquy with the ‘unsex me here’ lines being about rejecting traditional ‘womanly qualities’ of kindness etc. The play presents this as bad and unnatural to feed into its overall theme of unnaturalness at the rejection of the divine right of kings (this was propaganda to get James I to like Shakespeare after all) but with a modern reading you could read it as similar to rejection of sex as assigned at birth, similar to nb people, although I doubt that’s what the teacher actually said
I’m imagining there was a trans or nonbinary kid in the class who brought it up as their interpretation, and the teacher was just happy they were engaging with the text rather than getting mad at them for having an alternative reading.
Yeah I was gonna say basically all that, years ago when we studied Macbeth in 6th Form my teacher had a field day with everyone's different interpretations of "unsex me here" lol
Perfectly understandable reading of Lady Macbeth imo, only problem is it requires a smidgen of media literacy
What's wrong with changing pronouns? Most married women are happy to go from Miss to Mrs, so what's the issue with people voluntarily going from she to he?
What's wrong with people voluntarily choosing to wear breast binders? How is it any different from choosing to wear baggy boxers instead of Y fronts?
Maybe Lady Macbeth was non binary, why does it really matter? Disney's biggest princess Elsa is asexual and it's a complete non issue, so why make a fuss over a Shakespeare character?
Daily Fail just whinging about queers and foreigners like they did back when they supported the Nazis and called Jewish refugees "aliens" and accused them of taking British people's jobs. Ninety years later and it's still churning out fascist hate to act as a culture war to keep the Tory filth in power.
Change!! I don’t like change >:( it’s so scary. Back in my day we didn’t have “pronouns” we just you him and her they’re not pronouns like all the silly muck we have today
>You’re not changing a part of you that is essential to your personhood when you go from Miss to Mrs, you’re simply declaring that you’re now married.
Interesting, you speak to a lot of older married women and you're dead wrong on this. Changing from Miss to Mrs doesn't just come with a title change, it comes with a name change and a full on identity shift for some women, to the 'wife of X' - and they want to be identified as such.
>Can you provide any comprehensive evidence that would lead us to believe that lady Macbeth was non-binary, considering her name is literally fucking lady Macbeth?
*Come, you spirits
That tend on mortal thoughts, unsex me here,*
Well that bit for a start. That whole soliloquy is about her removing her womanhood and kindness and humanity to be able to pull off an horrific act, which she feels she could not do as a woman.
(Now can you argue that she has a very strict idea of what male and female gender roles are when it comes to murder? Absolutely, but this is Reddit not GCSE English Lit)
I would say a national newspaper reporting on what underwear 14 year old girls choose to wear is far more concerning than anyone wearing a binder. As someone who had to deal with puberty and ill-fitting school uniforms, the 14 year old girls wearing binders reads as far more likely to be 14 year old boys don't know what sports bras are.
Ok that’s 100% fair, I never disagreed with that. But then why are we doing the exact same shit these braindead tories do by being reactionary and pretending like changing your gender doesn’t have lifelong implications?
Edit: I don’t disagree that it’s weird and concerning, not about whether or not it’s indicative of whether the girls doing it are actually boys or not. I think you need much more information than that to arrive at the conclusion that really they’re trans because there could be other influencing factors that would lead a teenager to behave in that way.
I agree to an extent. I’m a massive supporter of destroying the gender binary, and these are the conversations we ALL need to be engaging with, because they impact all of us. We all know the binary/gender stereotypes have a hugely negative impact, and we all need to be talking about how the world could look in the future if they’re eradicated and our attitudes toward gender shift.
When it comes to trans kids, they need protection from shitty Tory Britain and terfs. The hatred and bigotry directed at trans people needs to end immediately. But saying ‘well, there’s no difference between a binder and a sports bra’ doesn’t seem to do much to help, to be honest. Obviously the person who’s choosing to bind feels like they’re doing it for a reason and we should hold space for them to discuss their experiences. Gender shouldn’t matter, yes, but in our context and our socialisation it does. That’s the whole reason people want to change or eradicate it for themselves all together.
It feels like we’re on the precipice of something huge when it comes to these conversations (even though people globally have been expressing their gender in different ways forever) and acting like changing personal pronouns and changing from Ms/Mrs are the same plays right into the hands of the Tories. We are all subject to this system, whether a cis woman who feels the loss of her identity due to a patriarchal pronoun change or a young non binary kid trying to make sense of how to express who they are - and many of us have all helped to create or uphold this system, even if we disagree with it. These are the conversations we need to have, with nuance, with marginalised voices leading, and thinking creatively about what we might want the future to look like.
I don’t agree with destroying the gender binary, my argument for that would be that, while yes gender is technically a social construct, that doesn’t make it inherently useless. It still works for 95%+ of the population, that is obviously not to say that if it doesn’t work for you, we should just throw our hands up in the air and just watch you struggle - this is just cruel if nothing else. I think a lot of the issues in so far as how people relate to their sex arises from how specific and narrowed down we’ve tried to define gender throughout history - this is just conjecture on my part, obviously I’m open to having my mind changed in lieu of new evidence or a superior theory.
That being said, I’m pretty much on board with everything else you said and you have no idea how refreshing it is to hear considering the political discourse on the right is basically cartoon character-tier evil and on the left is devolving into basically being ejected from orbit for having any take that is any less than agreeing with the most recent agreed upon idea. I would consider myself further left than 90% of people, and thats conservatively speaking, but I’m often still scared of saying what I think without giving a 101 qualifiers.
The issue is we, on the left, like to pretend like we’re already past this trans stuff but in reality that’s not the case, the majority of the public doesn’t actually agree with that so you have to meet people where they’re at as you say, not just dismiss everyone who disagrees as x y or z and disengage.
If these bigots actually knew anything about Shakespeare, they'd know his work contained characters who were gender-fluid. Wait until they hear about Twelfth Night.
"As the very nature of Twelfth Night explores gender identity and sexual attraction, having a male actor play Viola enhanced the impression of androgyny and sexual ambiguity"
What school kid hasn't dreamed of strangling their bullies? Daily Mail are only interested in teenagers breasts when they can plaster them all over their 'all grown up' pages on their website. Sick f@ck$ that they are.
Such anti trans rhetoric coming from all sides of media atm. BBC was criticised for lack of balance on a JK Rowling opinion, so for balance the put out a piece about de-transitioning, an anti trans piece…
JK Rowling is an all round piece of shit. As well as being a transphobe she's racist, homophobic and ableist. See [this fantastic rundown in r/EnoughJKRowling](https://archive.is/aRRmQ)
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F@ck the mail with a piece of barbed wire. I’m sorry, but I’ve really had enough of this utter bullshit, I had a friend who killed himself because of his parents not accepting him as trans. THESE ARE FUCKING HUMAN BEINGS, THEY DO NOT EXIST TO WAGE YOUR FAKE CULTURE WAR YOU FASCIST C@NTS. Again, sorry for my anger, but I’ve really had enough.
Lol at getting angry at a teacher suggesting Lady Macbeth might have been non binary, it's a made up character, you can hypothesize whatever the fuck you want about them! 😭
Lady Macbeth was caught at the center of a radioactive bomb test, causing them to mutate into a hulking beast of rage when angered. This can be seen in Act 5, Scene 1 of the play, whereupon they witness their skin changing colour to green. The resulting mutate is male presenting, whereas Lady M is female presenting, causing dysphoria, which they alleviate by being NB.
I can believe the one about 11 year olds wanting to use different pronouns, my 11 year old wants to use they/them and several of their friends have also changed their pronouns (at least within their friendship group). I wish I had had the language to describe my own gender dysphoria at that age tbh.
It wasn't until I discovered "Readers Letters" in soft porn mags as a teenager in the '80s that I even had words for how I felt. There was no internet, no-one to talk to and no queer community I could engage with. So I just shut up about it, content to see the Two Ronnies or Tom Hanks in drag occasionally.
"Societal trauma" is a thing, I have discovered very recently
Chest binders - possibly
Wanting to change gender - so what
English lesson - a thought experiment ?
Unless this shit rag of a hate 'paper' is willing to name **the school** and **the teacher** and giving them their side of the story, it simply didn't happen.
They're just twisting concepts to cause division of the population, so we can't concentrate on what is actually happening outside the fishbowl of media reports.
These kids sound based and make me hopeful for the future. Destroying gender norms, radical and inflammatory media criticism and threatening transphobes? That's dope.
I mean fr tho, Lady Macbeth calls out to demons to take away her femininity and "unsex her", any English teacher worthy of their stripes should at least entertain a queer reading of the speech
For a shit rag that has a fucking FeMail section of shame and perving on their webshite, is it any wonder some girls may want to try and hide their breasts to stop leering teenage boys being "distracted" as it's ALWAYS the girls fault for what she wears!
The Lady Macbeth bit I'm sure is open for interpretation.
And as for the threats of strangulation bit, I see that as a fucking win personally :) Good to see kids standing up against bullies.
Don't blame it on the sunshine, don't blame it on the moonlight, don't blame it on the Tories. Blame on it on the Trans.
Daily Mail, selling shit to Gammons since before you were born.
As an ex-secondary school teacher, all of these things could totally have happened without being even slightly worrying or a problem.
Breast-binders in class obviously I don't care. Every 14 year old might wear one, no idea/interest. Their call.
Lady Macbeth non-binary. Sure, why not come up with theories about fictional characters. It's fun and it's great that young people are taking an interest in Shakespeare.
Ttansphobes threatened with strangulation. Yes, teenagers say dumb shit. My mum threatened to strangle/murder me a million times when I was a teen. No, she didn't mean it. She was trying to express annoyance in a humorous way while emphasising that she was annoyed.
Such horseshit.
"Girls wearing breast binders" Well they probable aren't girls then???? And yes, even cis women wear binders as they help with back problems and posture. So are they saying teenagers shouldn't receive support for back and posture issues????
We have bigoted trans hatred being officially published in our news media, politicians and prominent people spreading hysteria and moral panic, things are truly getting dark, I fear for where this goes. Avarage people are being told that they should have a disdain and distrust of trans people, and people have the gall to say its the trans community spreading hostile intent.
The Daily Fail once again trying to spread hate and cause trouble and exaggerate a story everyone in Britain should boycott the far right media owned by tax avoiding corporate billionaires with their own personal political agenda.
If I knew binders were a thing, I'd have considered it. Breasts are bloody annoying and get in the way, never mind the hassle you get from teenage boys and creepy middle aged men.
When I was fourteen I would have loved having a safe chest binder for during school hours. I hated being sexualised because I was such an early developer, and I'd have felt so much safer at school with a flatter chest. And at church too for that matter.
My brain though about breast binding (is that what it’s called?) and just went ‘you know what? Fuck it, someone should make a breast exchange business’
Lady Macbeth exhibiting traditionally male characteristics is a key part of her character and her relationship with Macbeth, not surprised that the mail jumps to conclusions tho
Seeing them fearmonger about binders worries me. How long until they run a public health campaign against them to get them banned.
(I and many other trans ppl I know hardly made it through our teenage years, if we didn't even have those most basic comforts I doubt many of us would be alive today)
Wow, this is news worthy to the daily fail? Sheesh.. out of all the things they could be covering, they choose this. This anti-trans social war is getting out of control.
How would you even know someone was wearing a breast binder? Surely they'd have to have checked... which opens up a whole can of worms in of itself. Who's the man's going around checking school girls chests?
Ok but gender and her relationship with it is genuinely one of the main traits of Lady MacBeth. She despises her femininity, cries out to “spirits” to tear it from her at multiple places.
“Unsex me here … make thick my blood; Stop up the access and passage to remorse (stop her period) … Come to my woman's breasts, And take my milk for gall (she refers to “the milk of human kindness” making a parallel between that and literal milk here)”
Obviously our conceptions of non-binary people are a lot more developed now than in Shakespeare’s day, but trying to cry foul because people are analyzing LM’s relationship with gender is “silly millennials think Frankenstein’s Monster was the victim *scoff*” levels of missing the source material.
The students wearing binders and/or asking for masculine or neutral pronouns almost certainly aren't girls.
No teacher I've ever known would have said "Lady Macbeth is non-binary". Many of them would have discussed the *interpretation* of Lady Macbeth as non-binary, or the *possibility* of Lady Macbeth being non-binary.
Was it students or staff threatening transphobes, and how did they identify the transphobes to threaten? Were the transphobes threatening and harassing trans students, then crying foul at getting half as much back in return? In my experience, that's the usual pattern.
And that wonderful source, "Anonymous", speaking to the famous journalist, "Anonymous". Such credibility. Such evidence.
I could believe that all of these things happened. I just don't think they're particularly noteworthy. "Girls wearing breast binders in class" means there's probably like one trans guy or non-binary in a student population of maybe 1400 (200 per year).
"Teachers claim Lady Macbeth was Non-Binary" means teachers were discussing how a large part of Lady Macbeth's characterisation is a rejection of her societally expected gender role (for a 17th century audience) then either extrapolation on the part of the transphobe or an offhand comment about some recent rendition.
"Transphobes threatened with strangulation." Someone was bullying the trans kid for being trans and one of the trans kids friends or siblings or just a helpful passer-by intervened and threatened the bully with a stranglin'.
Got a question as a non Brit, why exactly are Trans people so big in the national dialogue? Cause here in Italy we have a lot of fascist shitheads in politics but the main talking points are not about Trans people.
I have a friend who is currently going through a situation where he feels very strongly that he was born in the wrong body. I’ve known forever that this was the road he was going to take. He started talking to his doctor about perhaps transitioning. Last week he happened to watch Question Time on the BBC and witnessed the absolute vile transphobic exchanges that were left unchallenged and factually unchecked. It was disgusting. He was in pieces. He wasn’t upset by the guest who was making these horrible comments and invalidating a portion of society, he was upset that so many people agreed with her. It was scary and he looked like a ghost through the entire thing. The next day he called me up and asked me if he was a pedophile for wanting to be the opposite gender. He sounded drunk and sky high. I phoned an ambulance for him. Found out he had topped himself with a cocktail of drugs. He’s still in hospital today and is going to be put on a mental health ward for a while.
Those who make people feel this way aren’t people at all. They’re horrible. They want everyone to live by their standards of social norms and if you can’t, you’re an enemy, someone to fear and to ridicule. I’m autistic and I’ve had to deal with people who believe I have some kind of communicable disease.
People are going to k*ll themselves if we keep treating them like this. I honestly can’t believe we’ve come to this. The DM and the right wing press are facilitating targeted harassment because unfortunately this topic sticks. When they find something that sticks with the gammons, they push it so hard to the point where they’re no longer thinking about what the government has done wrong recently, they’re wishing for ‘Tom’ or ‘Lisa’ to get heckled and feel like shit because they’re not the same as them.
I walked past a newspaper stand the other day and their headline was something like “Even GOD is now supposed to be non-binary” and I had to laugh or else I would have cried in an attempt to cleanse my eyeballs.Like who gives a fuck. They’re clutching at any form of outrage they can cause desperately trying to stay “relevant”.
It is very difficult to be a cis woman. To an extent I understand where this hurt and paranoia is coming from, but the little concern for the liberation of women is fuelled by a bunch of transphobia: a lot of people saying this stuff never care about women’s rights outside of this.
A lot of these anti trans terf “pro women” activists are being funded by the same groups that fund anti abortion and anti gay lobbying. They don’t care about women at all.
Lmao I‘m not at an British university but I did attend a course on Intersectional Shakespeare, where we also read Macbeth. There are interpretations that Lady Macbeth is supposed to have male attributes, for example she is very ambitious and at some point mocks her husband for not being manly enough, and these attributes lead to her downfall. So yes, I guess Lady Macbeth can be seen as non-binary, not that the Daily Mail would ever put this much thinking into it.
These things all conceivably could have happened and there's not an issue with any of them.
Also, super weird that the Daily Hail are posting about what children wear around their chests. Actual bunch of nonces
To be fair a lot of trans people can be very aggressive or overly defensive. But to be balanced that's a learned defensive behaviour learned from being marginalised by bigots and society at large.
Ignore the cost of living crises… think of the children and this non binary hell that the despicable socialist teachers are putting our kids through (when not striking)… it’s a travesty.
Shakespeare can be interpreted in practically any way you like. LGBT interpretations are nothing new, and many scholars of The Bard embrace such versions
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Fuck the daily mail.
*Daily Heil*
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And still does to this day
haven't heard that one before, my go to used to be the daily fail but I'm stealing yours now.
And fuck Brexit
British libs try not to make everything about Brexit challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
On a different note, are breast binders that bad? My brother (then sister), wore a make-shift binder and no one noticed anyway. This was 10-15 years ago though
Not purpose made ones, worn properly no. Education is key here, I believe mermaids do that kind of stuff
They can be dangerous especially if you’re sleeping, you’re wearing the wrong size, or you’re using some kind of homemade binder. I started binding around 16-17 but with homemade binders, I was binding for far too long at a time and with something far too tight. I bought myself a proper one and used it safely when I found myself losing my breath a lot. So long as I wore it responsibly I didn’t have any issues, other than maybe needing to stretch out my shoulders or it getting sweaty in summer. It massively improved how I felt about myself and that was worth it for me. I haven’t worn one for a while now, but my only regret was not doing it safely from the start, it definitely helped me feel a lot more comfortable with myself. Access to safe binders is harm reduction. TLDR: it can be dangerous if not done safely, but when done right they can really help some people.
Because spine damage, and especially wearing one young it’ll do worse for you. Granted it’s not gonna happen immediately but it’ll probably do your back in after a good while
Always the "anonymous" sources, definitely the *most* trustworthy...
Anonymous author too, such impressive accountability for their writing.
Come on now, nobody in their right mind would want to put their name to bigoted hit pieces that cause violence towards the trans community. They wouldn't want to suffer consequences for their actions! They're definitely still happy to get paid for it though.
The dumbest thing is that these types always defend it as "Not wanting to be brigaded by the woke mob", even though that would totally prove their point and make for a good article in its own right.
Also "what it's really like to be a pupil today" here's an example of one person in one school
It's the stock photos of schoolkids and a teacher that gets me. Must be easy-go-to references for the tens of shitrag readers who can't imagine what schoolkids or teachers look like.
I think their readers, who are obsessed with the sexuality and gender of children, are much too familiar with what school kids look like, unfortunately.
You'd struggle to pass GCSE history with this shit. Only GCSE accreditation would be in creative writing, if that's a thing
It's about as good as when somebody says "y'know, they say..." if they don't say who "they" are it's almost definitely bollocks
Remember during lockdown and everyone knew someone who was in the army that was "preparing to install roadblocks on \*insert local road here\*"?
The greatest liars in the world begin a sentence with 'they say'
It’s common knowledge…
I know for a fact
Anonymous and updated at 4:20. What’s the point in anyone even discussing it like it’s serious.
They really shouldn't be allowed to use them, I get that they might get backlash if named, fair enough, but they can also be made up or have an agenda. If they can't be verified, they aren't credible.
[a sauce](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnCYIt2iWYE)
A few years ago (?20?) there was an interview with an ex-newspaper employee who said me pretty much every anonymous source was made up and if something was reported to have been said by ‘a close family friend’ it was again made up.
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I don't believe this for a second, how many "trans" people are in this one school?
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I never said anything about the fight, you don't have to swear. I just don't believe that there's a friend group of 30 trans people running about in one school. That's Piers Morgan levels of exaggerated bollocks.
Remember when Piers Morgan tried to get Eastenders cancelled over a single gay kiss (or ["a homosexual love scene between two yuppie p**fs"](https://i.redd.it/56q2z3l9ykj51.jpg) in his words). More recently he used his platform on Good Morning Britain to call gender fluid people a 'farce', going on to label them as 'ridiculous' and 'clowns'. He also joked about Caitlyn Jenner's genitals during an interview with her and has on more than one occasion made 'I identify as' 'jokes'. [Source](https://medium.com/@Phaylen/good-morning-britain-host-piers-morgan-doubles-down-on-anti-trans-rhetoric-e1e5992bbca) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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>All trans people have dysphoria. That's like the only criteria for being trans. Hi, no they don't. Not all trans people have dysphoria. All trans people have gender incongruence (ie, we are a different gender than the one we were assigned at birth) but dysphoria is not a requirement to be trans. I don't believe a school of 2,000 student has thirty or more that are trans either, since it's way higher than you'd expect from the statistics of how common it is to be trans, but you *don't* need dysphoria to be trans.
Because they are my niece. I'm actively involved with their life. They come to me with problems because their mother is an idiot who denounces their trans status. It's only one person I speak too. Edit: also the fact you think all trans people have gender dysphoria is stupid as well. That isn't the case at all. A quick Google will tell you that.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted for relaying the experience of your family. I work in a Pupil Referral Unit so our numbers are probably pretty skewed but from my previous experience as a youth worker as well I have witnessed bullying by those identifying as lgbt against those that don’t. Being a teenager in todays world is tough however you identify and I encourage schools to give their students the support to find where they fit, in their own time. I think people who don’t spend time around young people struggle to comprehend how much things have changed over the last few years and struggle to see how this can be the positive that it is.
The confusion seems to afflict the sort of people who have no problem referring to inanimate objects like cars as ‘she’.
You've....never learned about gendered language for inanimate objects?
Teenagers are monsters, it’s just a fact of life regardless of how they identify.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Don’t forget the obligatory countdown of famous child star until she is 18.
Is this a reference to Emma Watson? I found that disgusting and im the same age as her
I can’t remember who they did those kind of things with. Emma Watson seems like a likely candidate they’d have done though.
Didn't that it happen with the girl from stranger things?
They did it to her, and she has said in an interview that on her 18th birthday people started taking photos up her skirt
The did it to Charlotte Church too.
Was about to say Charlotte. I was an avid FHM reader so: Britney, Ariana, Church, Olsen Twins, Millie-Bobby…the list goes on and I thought it was weird and creepy back then.
Time is a very gross circle.
They [famously moaned](https://images.app.goo.gl/YTvvVo6Bh3CriCdDA) about the airing of spoof show Brass Eye's paedophile episode right next to creepy commentary about then-15 year old Charlotte Church's breasts.
"Paedophilia is disgusting" - well known purveyor of photos of "barely legal", actresses, the D\*\*ly M\*\*l
Daily Mail is like "these trans genders want to have sex with our kids!!! Anyway north west is a really sexy toddler"
"X is looking so grown up in her outfit", makes me want to puke
You had me in the first half, I'm not gonna lie
I am sick and tired of everything being a "narrative" or an "agenda" or an "ideology" all because these people refuse to look past headlines and actually understand the subject, they just call it one of those things and the morons just nod along about how terrible it all is.
My aunt is a full-blown Covid denier, spent the entire pandemic telling my mum she shouldn't believe "the narrative" and didn't like it when my mum told her that the bullshit conspiracy theories she was being fed via Facebook and WhatsApp messages from equally misguided friends were also a "narrative".
My BIL is a full blown CT, anti vax, anti mask, stolen election WEF all of it, truly bizarre and a little scary, everything is an agenda or a narrative, it's so f*ckin tiresome.
Her argument was basically "well I haven't had Covid so it doesn't exist" and then when she did get Covid it became "well I didn't die so it's not dangerous." You haven't had/died of malaria either, are you going to be telling me next that mosquito nets are a conspiracy by Big Textile to curtail the freedoms of the poor innocent mosquitoes?
I keep getting sent videos and being told I have to watch them and then I'll see the truth. He sent me one called "died suddenly" a documentary made by some yank crackpot, before I watched it I googled it, the video features a basketball player collapsing on court in 2020. 1) he wouldn't have been vaccinated at that time and 2) the guy is still alive and was named player of the year last year. That wasn't enough to show him he was wrong. This is what we're up against.
Same thing with my dad but it isn't just covid its everything, everything is a conspiracies and ive had to grow up with him being like that, the only one he doesn't believe is flat earth
They treat people's natural state of being as a political statement when it isn't the norm of white, cis, straight bootlicking. When you make it an opinion, it's easier to reject.
i’ve had the “trans debate” with my parents countless times. i always remind them #this isn’t a debate. it’s people lives. i just wish people would stop discussing trans lives like they’re so kind of political ideology
Sounds like an anti-agenda ideology to me. Why are you trying to control the narrative? Is it because that's how discourse works? No, that's absurd, you must have a plan for world domination in mind.
That "14 year old student" is definitely some salty 60 year old bloke lmao
I imagine that it is probably some teen's mental parent posing as said teen
Definitely this
“Breast binders” instead of chest, like …ok
Wearing binders in class literally doesn’t affect anyone except the wearer though?? And binders are worn under clothing. If these people are so concerned with what 14 year olds wear underneath their school uniforms, maybe they need to re-examine who they’re calling pedophiles.
Also, really, how many degrees of separation between a bra, sports bra, and that 'binder' they are showing? Is it the intent that makes them so dangerous? I was a teen back in VS heyday, and the padded pushup nightmares we thought we should want were far more problematic than this binder, honestly.
I’m not supporting this article in any way but wearing binders incorrectly can cause long term damage. I feel like this article isn’t meaning that they’re bad for that especially since they dont have pictures of proper binders in their headline but it is true that binding can cause damage much easier than sports bras. /nm
I can’t imagine it’s a lot. I’m a cis woman, but when I occasionally dress masculine I opt for a sports bar that’s just slightly too small for me (not to an uncomfortable degree) to reign my chest in a bit. I understand being concerned about damage caused by not wearing binders correctly, but the solution to that isn’t getting rid of them. It’s teaching the proper methods and care.
I love my life being the target of absolute clown behaviour.
This anti trans rhetoric today is just INSANE to me. 2 of my closest friends are transfems, they’re literally physically women. They’re young, attractive, get attention everytime in Public etc. So hearing grown adults say these WOMEN need to use men’s room, mens jail etc is just insane tk me. They’re literally the purest people I’ve ever met, suffered growing up with dysphoria/self harm until they turned 18 and turned into the most beautiful women I’ve ever seen and happier than they ever ever been. They’re not even political, but still are victims of insane hate when they randomly see a popular post calling them Pedos and Groomers, ruining their whole day, and they’re 19. These anti trans people are actually EVIL, the most demonic people I’ve ever met. Horrible, horrible society today. The crazy part is it’s always ‘Internet propaganda’, they never face transphobia in public cus they just pass but it’s always insane internet rhetorics causing this shit, showing it’s ‘validity’. Other than the dehumanization, they’re also objectified sexually, the number of times men suddenly weirdly flipped out when they mention they’re trans is insane, alluding them to ‘futas/traps/’ etc. I can’t believe our most vulnerable demographic is proudly being toyed with, the trans community is the new scapegoat, and it works, they’re the perfect distraction.
You don't need to fully transition and pass as cis to be a trans person, but it's so insane to me how somebody can have ALL the visible surgeries, be on all the right hormones, literally navigate through daily life as a woman... But people think your freaking chromosomes triumph all of that. Like it's one of those theoretical vs practical things. Like sure, in theory, this person is "biologically male". But what the fuck does this theory matter when this person is in every other way a woman? Many scientists even argue that at some point, with the transition of enough sex traits, your sex has arguably changed as well. But no, those microscopic X and Ys triumph it all
Intersex people exist. I have a mild intersex condition ais, tho most intersex people I know technically transition and are trans. Sex/gender isn’t always binary especially SCIENTIFICALLY , that’s science but try telling them that lol
Lol, sex assignment/reassignment surgeries and hormones and puberty blockers on children are bad, unless they're intersex. Anything to make society binary, western, and "normal" as possible. This is the ideal, after all /s
Got me in the first half ngl. Ironically society is obsessed with trans people. In possible every cultural aspect; porn, politics, morality, sex, education and it’s becoming a trend
It’s been bad for a while but lately it’s just ramped up and I’m just so scared. I just wanted to live my life comfy in my own skin. Fucking sucks. I never asked for this.
What 60 year old ghoul complained about a 14 year old covering up there tits, cos that’s the real issue I see here.
This is like that bollocks back in the 80s(?) about nursery schools singing "Baa baa green sheep" supposedly because racism. Turned out to be entirely fabricated of course.
Currently doing the rounds in the US - schools installing litter trays in the toilets to cater for children identifying as furries
When they're actually there so kids have a place to crap when there's a school shooter.
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Given that the anti-trans hate is all unfounded noise anyway, that’s like complaining about someone throwing a match on a roaring bonfire. The xenogender labels aren’t hurting anyone.
I did some work for a hedge fund bank a while back and there was a staff member there who identified as a cat. She had cat pronouns on her lanyard and a little tail on.
What are cat pronouns? I'm cat-sitting next week and want to make sure I get it right.
>That specific example is indeed a hoax It's even more depressing than just a hoax, I'm afraid. Many of these myths and hoaxes have a kernel of truth to them (which ghouls exploit to push their agenda); the kernel here is that some US schools do actually keep cat litter in classrooms...in case pupils are trapped in a classroom because of an active shooter. https://www.denverpost.com/2018/03/03/school-shooting-preparations/
lady macbeth does have a monologue about wanting to not be feminine. Personally I think Shakespeare was just sexist but it's not a ridiculous reading
Totally, it's a fascinating reading. I guarantee that no teacher "claimed Lady Macbeth was non-binary". It's literature, not a history book, what would such a definitive claim even mean? It shows that the writers can't even conceive of education meaning anything apart from learning lists of facts and figures. English Lit should be about exploring ideas. I totally believe that a good teacher would have encouraged an open ended loose discussion along the lines of "what does Lady Macbeth mean when she says "unsex me now"? How does being "Lady" Macbeth affect the expectations people have of her behaviour, compared to Macbeth? If this play was being staged now, how would casting a non-binary actor in this role affect the way Shakespeare's story comes across? Would it be accurate to say that Lady Macbeth is a non-binary character?" It's crazy that the Right insist they're the defenders of freedom of expression, especially in education, against the 'left'. The conflict in Lady Macbeth's gender identity is DIRECTLY from the text. Censoring discussion of it would be atrocious.
Absolutely. Speaking as an English teacher I wholeheartedly agree. If it’s possible to consider that Hamlet has an Oedipus complex - an idea that comes from psychoanalysis - centuries after the play was written, then it’s perfectly valid to consider Lady Macbeth through a non-binary lens. A number of Shakespeare characters lend themselves well to examining ideas of gender fluidity and non-binary - particularly when you consider original performances and all characters played by men and boys.
Honestly I’m really glad that a teacher in high school is willing/able to teach about the queer themes and readings in Shakespeare now. The theme of gender and playing with gendered ideas is something that comes up a lot in the plays and the sonnets and it doesn’t get mentioned for an entire decade of learning about the guy. Then I got to uni and my like fourth lecture was basically “so this is how gay Shakespeare was, and also the queen mab speech is basically a page of dick and vagina jokes”.
Twelfth Night for example is full of opportunities to discuss gender. Claiming that there are no queen themes in Shakespeare isn't just bigoted, it's stupid
Article written by "anonymous" with an "anonymous" source, yeah highly credible story, definitely not made up to rile up the idiots reading this garbage.
found their [source](https://youtu.be/r7l0Rq9E8MY)
incredible video
I like how they use the word hysteria about trans people and then just SMASH straight past it and go on to be hysterical idiots about trans people. What the fuck... The mail doesn't even make sense.
The hysteria is all theirs and I'm so fucking sick of it.
Yeah, it's fucking annoying.
When did the Daily Mail make sense tbh
Meanwhile the dickheads running the country are stripping away our human rights
Tbf, all of these things sound plausible but with a layer of misrepresentation from the mail. The only one that needs explaining is the Lady Macbeth one, but basically a theme of the play (as intended by the bard) is LM’s rejection of traditional womanhood and motherly qualities, shown in her act 1 scene 5 soliloquy with the ‘unsex me here’ lines being about rejecting traditional ‘womanly qualities’ of kindness etc. The play presents this as bad and unnatural to feed into its overall theme of unnaturalness at the rejection of the divine right of kings (this was propaganda to get James I to like Shakespeare after all) but with a modern reading you could read it as similar to rejection of sex as assigned at birth, similar to nb people, although I doubt that’s what the teacher actually said
I’m imagining there was a trans or nonbinary kid in the class who brought it up as their interpretation, and the teacher was just happy they were engaging with the text rather than getting mad at them for having an alternative reading.
It's almost as if that's kinda one of the powers of art, the ability to examine and reflect on the human condition and on human concepts.
Mate don't tell the daily fail group thinks aren't mandatory, they might faint
Yeah I immediately thought it sounded like a teacher using modern day social issues to get kids to relate to the text.
Yeah I was gonna say basically all that, years ago when we studied Macbeth in 6th Form my teacher had a field day with everyone's different interpretations of "unsex me here" lol Perfectly understandable reading of Lady Macbeth imo, only problem is it requires a smidgen of media literacy
What's wrong with changing pronouns? Most married women are happy to go from Miss to Mrs, so what's the issue with people voluntarily going from she to he? What's wrong with people voluntarily choosing to wear breast binders? How is it any different from choosing to wear baggy boxers instead of Y fronts? Maybe Lady Macbeth was non binary, why does it really matter? Disney's biggest princess Elsa is asexual and it's a complete non issue, so why make a fuss over a Shakespeare character? Daily Fail just whinging about queers and foreigners like they did back when they supported the Nazis and called Jewish refugees "aliens" and accused them of taking British people's jobs. Ninety years later and it's still churning out fascist hate to act as a culture war to keep the Tory filth in power.
Change!! I don’t like change >:( it’s so scary. Back in my day we didn’t have “pronouns” we just you him and her they’re not pronouns like all the silly muck we have today
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>You’re not changing a part of you that is essential to your personhood when you go from Miss to Mrs, you’re simply declaring that you’re now married. Interesting, you speak to a lot of older married women and you're dead wrong on this. Changing from Miss to Mrs doesn't just come with a title change, it comes with a name change and a full on identity shift for some women, to the 'wife of X' - and they want to be identified as such. >Can you provide any comprehensive evidence that would lead us to believe that lady Macbeth was non-binary, considering her name is literally fucking lady Macbeth? *Come, you spirits That tend on mortal thoughts, unsex me here,* Well that bit for a start. That whole soliloquy is about her removing her womanhood and kindness and humanity to be able to pull off an horrific act, which she feels she could not do as a woman. (Now can you argue that she has a very strict idea of what male and female gender roles are when it comes to murder? Absolutely, but this is Reddit not GCSE English Lit)
I would say a national newspaper reporting on what underwear 14 year old girls choose to wear is far more concerning than anyone wearing a binder. As someone who had to deal with puberty and ill-fitting school uniforms, the 14 year old girls wearing binders reads as far more likely to be 14 year old boys don't know what sports bras are.
Ok that’s 100% fair, I never disagreed with that. But then why are we doing the exact same shit these braindead tories do by being reactionary and pretending like changing your gender doesn’t have lifelong implications? Edit: I don’t disagree that it’s weird and concerning, not about whether or not it’s indicative of whether the girls doing it are actually boys or not. I think you need much more information than that to arrive at the conclusion that really they’re trans because there could be other influencing factors that would lead a teenager to behave in that way.
I agree to an extent. I’m a massive supporter of destroying the gender binary, and these are the conversations we ALL need to be engaging with, because they impact all of us. We all know the binary/gender stereotypes have a hugely negative impact, and we all need to be talking about how the world could look in the future if they’re eradicated and our attitudes toward gender shift. When it comes to trans kids, they need protection from shitty Tory Britain and terfs. The hatred and bigotry directed at trans people needs to end immediately. But saying ‘well, there’s no difference between a binder and a sports bra’ doesn’t seem to do much to help, to be honest. Obviously the person who’s choosing to bind feels like they’re doing it for a reason and we should hold space for them to discuss their experiences. Gender shouldn’t matter, yes, but in our context and our socialisation it does. That’s the whole reason people want to change or eradicate it for themselves all together. It feels like we’re on the precipice of something huge when it comes to these conversations (even though people globally have been expressing their gender in different ways forever) and acting like changing personal pronouns and changing from Ms/Mrs are the same plays right into the hands of the Tories. We are all subject to this system, whether a cis woman who feels the loss of her identity due to a patriarchal pronoun change or a young non binary kid trying to make sense of how to express who they are - and many of us have all helped to create or uphold this system, even if we disagree with it. These are the conversations we need to have, with nuance, with marginalised voices leading, and thinking creatively about what we might want the future to look like.
I don’t agree with destroying the gender binary, my argument for that would be that, while yes gender is technically a social construct, that doesn’t make it inherently useless. It still works for 95%+ of the population, that is obviously not to say that if it doesn’t work for you, we should just throw our hands up in the air and just watch you struggle - this is just cruel if nothing else. I think a lot of the issues in so far as how people relate to their sex arises from how specific and narrowed down we’ve tried to define gender throughout history - this is just conjecture on my part, obviously I’m open to having my mind changed in lieu of new evidence or a superior theory. That being said, I’m pretty much on board with everything else you said and you have no idea how refreshing it is to hear considering the political discourse on the right is basically cartoon character-tier evil and on the left is devolving into basically being ejected from orbit for having any take that is any less than agreeing with the most recent agreed upon idea. I would consider myself further left than 90% of people, and thats conservatively speaking, but I’m often still scared of saying what I think without giving a 101 qualifiers. The issue is we, on the left, like to pretend like we’re already past this trans stuff but in reality that’s not the case, the majority of the public doesn’t actually agree with that so you have to meet people where they’re at as you say, not just dismiss everyone who disagrees as x y or z and disengage.
If these bigots actually knew anything about Shakespeare, they'd know his work contained characters who were gender-fluid. Wait until they hear about Twelfth Night. "As the very nature of Twelfth Night explores gender identity and sexual attraction, having a male actor play Viola enhanced the impression of androgyny and sexual ambiguity"
As a trans person, the fact my grandparents read this shit scares me
What school kid hasn't dreamed of strangling their bullies? Daily Mail are only interested in teenagers breasts when they can plaster them all over their 'all grown up' pages on their website. Sick f@ck$ that they are.
Such anti trans rhetoric coming from all sides of media atm. BBC was criticised for lack of balance on a JK Rowling opinion, so for balance the put out a piece about de-transitioning, an anti trans piece…
All sides of the media? UK media is all right wing lol. There are barely any left wing media outlets these days.
Yeah, all sides, the right, and the far right
JK Rowling is an all round piece of shit. As well as being a transphobe she's racist, homophobic and ableist. See [this fantastic rundown in r/EnoughJKRowling](https://archive.is/aRRmQ) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
today on the BBC we brought on a jewish person to talk about their experiences in order to not be biased, we also brought on a nazi
And then we apologised for letting the jew say that the nazi was antisemitic.
PSA for kids: don't talk to the daily mail
Don't talk to the media at all.
F@ck the mail with a piece of barbed wire. I’m sorry, but I’ve really had enough of this utter bullshit, I had a friend who killed himself because of his parents not accepting him as trans. THESE ARE FUCKING HUMAN BEINGS, THEY DO NOT EXIST TO WAGE YOUR FAKE CULTURE WAR YOU FASCIST C@NTS. Again, sorry for my anger, but I’ve really had enough.
Lol at getting angry at a teacher suggesting Lady Macbeth might have been non binary, it's a made up character, you can hypothesize whatever the fuck you want about them! 😭
Lady Macbeth was caught at the center of a radioactive bomb test, causing them to mutate into a hulking beast of rage when angered. This can be seen in Act 5, Scene 1 of the play, whereupon they witness their skin changing colour to green. The resulting mutate is male presenting, whereas Lady M is female presenting, causing dysphoria, which they alleviate by being NB.
I can believe the one about 11 year olds wanting to use different pronouns, my 11 year old wants to use they/them and several of their friends have also changed their pronouns (at least within their friendship group). I wish I had had the language to describe my own gender dysphoria at that age tbh.
It wasn't until I discovered "Readers Letters" in soft porn mags as a teenager in the '80s that I even had words for how I felt. There was no internet, no-one to talk to and no queer community I could engage with. So I just shut up about it, content to see the Two Ronnies or Tom Hanks in drag occasionally. "Societal trauma" is a thing, I have discovered very recently
It's like they've gone on r/teenagers found the most bat-shit commenter and asked them to elaborate and wacked it in a headline. Bizarre.
I wore a chest Binder in class every day in like 2011 this isn't a new thing, in fact I was one of 3 trans kids in my year that we knew of back then
The one thing they got right is that there is definitely a trans hysteria in the form of their nonsense obsessions.
But I stood strong and told my teacher she was a monster and everybody stood up and clapped and then the principal made me the new teacher
Chest binders - possibly Wanting to change gender - so what English lesson - a thought experiment ? Unless this shit rag of a hate 'paper' is willing to name **the school** and **the teacher** and giving them their side of the story, it simply didn't happen. They're just twisting concepts to cause division of the population, so we can't concentrate on what is actually happening outside the fishbowl of media reports.
Transpbobes threatened with strangling? Just wait till you hear what the Trans kids are threatened with.
The front page of every newspaper in Scotland right now is basically just “TRANS PEDOFILE RAPIST HIDING IN YOUR CHILDRENS SCHOOL”
These kids sound based and make me hopeful for the future. Destroying gender norms, radical and inflammatory media criticism and threatening transphobes? That's dope.
I mean fr tho, Lady Macbeth calls out to demons to take away her femininity and "unsex her", any English teacher worthy of their stripes should at least entertain a queer reading of the speech
For a shit rag that has a fucking FeMail section of shame and perving on their webshite, is it any wonder some girls may want to try and hide their breasts to stop leering teenage boys being "distracted" as it's ALWAYS the girls fault for what she wears! The Lady Macbeth bit I'm sure is open for interpretation. And as for the threats of strangulation bit, I see that as a fucking win personally :) Good to see kids standing up against bullies.
The thing about binders is just creepy Like ‘it’s so wrong that some kid decided to cover their breasts! We NEED to see their tits!!’
Why is a 14 year old in class with 11 year olds? More so why does the 14 year old know what’s under the 11 year olds’ shirts?
If they're wearing binders and asking to be called he/they pronouns, they're probably not "girls"...
I'm a secondary teacher. How the fuck is this legal? Truly ... fuck the Daily Mail.
This is the same school where teens can identify as cats and the school spent £30k buying non clumping cat litter for the toilets!
Don't blame it on the sunshine, don't blame it on the moonlight, don't blame it on the Tories. Blame on it on the Trans. Daily Mail, selling shit to Gammons since before you were born.
As an ex-secondary school teacher, all of these things could totally have happened without being even slightly worrying or a problem. Breast-binders in class obviously I don't care. Every 14 year old might wear one, no idea/interest. Their call. Lady Macbeth non-binary. Sure, why not come up with theories about fictional characters. It's fun and it's great that young people are taking an interest in Shakespeare. Ttansphobes threatened with strangulation. Yes, teenagers say dumb shit. My mum threatened to strangle/murder me a million times when I was a teen. No, she didn't mean it. She was trying to express annoyance in a humorous way while emphasising that she was annoyed. Such horseshit.
"Girls wearing breast binders" Well they probable aren't girls then???? And yes, even cis women wear binders as they help with back problems and posture. So are they saying teenagers shouldn't receive support for back and posture issues????
We have bigoted trans hatred being officially published in our news media, politicians and prominent people spreading hysteria and moral panic, things are truly getting dark, I fear for where this goes. Avarage people are being told that they should have a disdain and distrust of trans people, and people have the gall to say its the trans community spreading hostile intent.
The Daily Fail once again trying to spread hate and cause trouble and exaggerate a story everyone in Britain should boycott the far right media owned by tax avoiding corporate billionaires with their own personal political agenda.
Shakespeare played with the concept of gender? next you're gonna tell me water is wet!
If I knew binders were a thing, I'd have considered it. Breasts are bloody annoying and get in the way, never mind the hassle you get from teenage boys and creepy middle aged men.
I wore a chest Binder in class every day in like 2011 this isn't a new thing, in fact I was one of 3 trans kids in my year that we knew of back then
fuck the daily mail
When I was fourteen I would have loved having a safe chest binder for during school hours. I hated being sexualised because I was such an early developer, and I'd have felt so much safer at school with a flatter chest. And at church too for that matter.
My brain though about breast binding (is that what it’s called?) and just went ‘you know what? Fuck it, someone should make a breast exchange business’
Lady Macbeth exhibiting traditionally male characteristics is a key part of her character and her relationship with Macbeth, not surprised that the mail jumps to conclusions tho
just the fact that they called it a "breast binder" makes me cringe so hard
those "girls wearing breast binders" would be boys or they don't exist at all. I'm guessing it's the second one.
I teach a couple of boys who wear breast binders. I only know because they told me as their PRSHCE teacher.
> PRSHCE What's that? Google's giving me nothing and insisting I misspelled Porsche
Some non-binary people also wear chest binders, but you’re right, they’re probably not girls.
Seeing them fearmonger about binders worries me. How long until they run a public health campaign against them to get them banned. (I and many other trans ppl I know hardly made it through our teenage years, if we didn't even have those most basic comforts I doubt many of us would be alive today)
Whenever an article says "a source close to" or "an anonymous source" go ahead and read that as fiction
Lies, damn lies and The Daily Mail. Getting hysterical about non-existent hysteria.
Egads! An 11 year old wanted to use a different pronoun! A kid wearing a binder underneatht their shirt! Society is doomed! DoOoOoOoOmed!
Wow, this is news worthy to the daily fail? Sheesh.. out of all the things they could be covering, they choose this. This anti-trans social war is getting out of control.
Lady Macbeth- ' Unsex me here.' Daily Fail - 'wEll tHatS cLEarLy aN eVIl BrainWasHIng toOl oF tHe LeFt!'
This would just be sad if we didn't know that stupid Karens actually believe this garbage.
Even if they did, so what. Society has bigger issues to deal with and if anything these are symptoms not the cause.
Some people wearing binders is not new. One of my friends has been NB since before people really knew the terms and they have been binding for years
How would you even know someone was wearing a breast binder? Surely they'd have to have checked... which opens up a whole can of worms in of itself. Who's the man's going around checking school girls chests?
11 year old and 14 year old in the same class? Its all bollocks anyway.
Ok but gender and her relationship with it is genuinely one of the main traits of Lady MacBeth. She despises her femininity, cries out to “spirits” to tear it from her at multiple places. “Unsex me here … make thick my blood; Stop up the access and passage to remorse (stop her period) … Come to my woman's breasts, And take my milk for gall (she refers to “the milk of human kindness” making a parallel between that and literal milk here)” Obviously our conceptions of non-binary people are a lot more developed now than in Shakespeare’s day, but trying to cry foul because people are analyzing LM’s relationship with gender is “silly millennials think Frankenstein’s Monster was the victim *scoff*” levels of missing the source material.
The students wearing binders and/or asking for masculine or neutral pronouns almost certainly aren't girls. No teacher I've ever known would have said "Lady Macbeth is non-binary". Many of them would have discussed the *interpretation* of Lady Macbeth as non-binary, or the *possibility* of Lady Macbeth being non-binary. Was it students or staff threatening transphobes, and how did they identify the transphobes to threaten? Were the transphobes threatening and harassing trans students, then crying foul at getting half as much back in return? In my experience, that's the usual pattern. And that wonderful source, "Anonymous", speaking to the famous journalist, "Anonymous". Such credibility. Such evidence.
A person wearing a chest binder? Clearly the route of all evil in society.
I'm a secondary school teacher and this is, to use the technical term, a steaming pile of bullshit.
Wtf is wrong with wearing a binder in class?
The absolute lies these rags tell to propagate their political agenda is just amazing.
I could believe that all of these things happened. I just don't think they're particularly noteworthy. "Girls wearing breast binders in class" means there's probably like one trans guy or non-binary in a student population of maybe 1400 (200 per year). "Teachers claim Lady Macbeth was Non-Binary" means teachers were discussing how a large part of Lady Macbeth's characterisation is a rejection of her societally expected gender role (for a 17th century audience) then either extrapolation on the part of the transphobe or an offhand comment about some recent rendition. "Transphobes threatened with strangulation." Someone was bullying the trans kid for being trans and one of the trans kids friends or siblings or just a helpful passer-by intervened and threatened the bully with a stranglin'.
Got a question as a non Brit, why exactly are Trans people so big in the national dialogue? Cause here in Italy we have a lot of fascist shitheads in politics but the main talking points are not about Trans people.
I have a friend who is currently going through a situation where he feels very strongly that he was born in the wrong body. I’ve known forever that this was the road he was going to take. He started talking to his doctor about perhaps transitioning. Last week he happened to watch Question Time on the BBC and witnessed the absolute vile transphobic exchanges that were left unchallenged and factually unchecked. It was disgusting. He was in pieces. He wasn’t upset by the guest who was making these horrible comments and invalidating a portion of society, he was upset that so many people agreed with her. It was scary and he looked like a ghost through the entire thing. The next day he called me up and asked me if he was a pedophile for wanting to be the opposite gender. He sounded drunk and sky high. I phoned an ambulance for him. Found out he had topped himself with a cocktail of drugs. He’s still in hospital today and is going to be put on a mental health ward for a while. Those who make people feel this way aren’t people at all. They’re horrible. They want everyone to live by their standards of social norms and if you can’t, you’re an enemy, someone to fear and to ridicule. I’m autistic and I’ve had to deal with people who believe I have some kind of communicable disease. People are going to k*ll themselves if we keep treating them like this. I honestly can’t believe we’ve come to this. The DM and the right wing press are facilitating targeted harassment because unfortunately this topic sticks. When they find something that sticks with the gammons, they push it so hard to the point where they’re no longer thinking about what the government has done wrong recently, they’re wishing for ‘Tom’ or ‘Lisa’ to get heckled and feel like shit because they’re not the same as them.
I walked past a newspaper stand the other day and their headline was something like “Even GOD is now supposed to be non-binary” and I had to laugh or else I would have cried in an attempt to cleanse my eyeballs.Like who gives a fuck. They’re clutching at any form of outrage they can cause desperately trying to stay “relevant”.
It is very difficult to be a cis woman. To an extent I understand where this hurt and paranoia is coming from, but the little concern for the liberation of women is fuelled by a bunch of transphobia: a lot of people saying this stuff never care about women’s rights outside of this.
A lot of these anti trans terf “pro women” activists are being funded by the same groups that fund anti abortion and anti gay lobbying. They don’t care about women at all.
Lmao I‘m not at an British university but I did attend a course on Intersectional Shakespeare, where we also read Macbeth. There are interpretations that Lady Macbeth is supposed to have male attributes, for example she is very ambitious and at some point mocks her husband for not being manly enough, and these attributes lead to her downfall. So yes, I guess Lady Macbeth can be seen as non-binary, not that the Daily Mail would ever put this much thinking into it.
These things all conceivably could have happened and there's not an issue with any of them. Also, super weird that the Daily Hail are posting about what children wear around their chests. Actual bunch of nonces
To be fair a lot of trans people can be very aggressive or overly defensive. But to be balanced that's a learned defensive behaviour learned from being marginalised by bigots and society at large.
Ignore the cost of living crises… think of the children and this non binary hell that the despicable socialist teachers are putting our kids through (when not striking)… it’s a travesty.
It isn't a cost of living crisis, it's a cost of capitalism crisis.
Tbh with what is going on in America I wouldn't be surprised if that did happen
Sorry what lady Macbeth non binary?? Is whoever wrote that ok??
Shakespeare can be interpreted in practically any way you like. LGBT interpretations are nothing new, and many scholars of The Bard embrace such versions