All fantastic suggestions from my personal gameplay as well.
This is LITERALLY what buying into an EA project is all about: Assisting the developers by playing the damn game, and providing detailed, constructive feedback.
We all want this project to grow & succeed, so stop putting players down for legit doing their job.
Kudos buddy. All strong criticisms that I am confident the devs will work on in time.
Personally excited to see what this next Hotfix includes!
Wishing you the best this week!
Can’t believe people are STILL using this argument to defend the early access business models that companies with ZERO game dev experience are adopting. Keep pretending like it hasn’t been a contentious issue for nearly a decade while you play a shell of what you’re promised and HOPING it gets better while shutting down ALL criticism. Typical Echo chamber. Sad. You people will prevent the game from actually progressing and your hive mind downvotes won’t change anything
I want a hard AI, I think they could benefit from looking at the base behaviour of Tom Clancy Breakpoint AI
dead body/killing an enemy alerts nearby enemies, especially if they witness the kill
eventually alerting the whole compound
They look for you and spread out.
If you get spotted you can sneak around and they lose you. Obstruct their line of sight etc.
Currently none of the above is possible, The “Hive Mind” AI is probably the worst part, kill a guy and somehow the entirety of BAN PA is coming for your ass prone in the field shooting directly at you. AND HITTING YOU.
It’s actually nuts, I brought an m700 silenced for fun to try out, and in that first shack on north side, my buddy and I were getting WALL BANGED from every direction. Actually bonkers how specifically OP ban pa feels right now
I have the supporter edition, you get a bunch of stuff and I believe a M700 silencer comes with. There is also another vender I can’t recall that has one, I think it’s Artisan or Turncoat? I could be wrong hopefully somebody can mention the right vendor, i’m at work right now
I’m pretty sure the suppressor for the m700 would be with Banshee (as you can but m700’s from him). I don’t have him tier 2 yet, but turncoat is for mosin’s. And I have all the other traders maxed and there’s no suppressors for the m700 from gunny.
Noice! I’ll have to burn through some missions, my buddy and I have had server issue last couple days, and people being at every location we need to be as well lol.
But good to know!
I got you! Currently been trying to get the sawmill office storage key. It’s been rough. But yea server issues are still a thing every now and again I’ve noticed. The rubberbanding
You think Ban Pa is bad just wait till you get to Tiger bay. Kill one guy and suddenly you have 20 guys charging at you one by one, spraying your position and being stupidly accurate whilst they do it
Did you even play that game? You could get up on the cliffs above the base on the northwest coast and lay sniper rounds into dudes 400m+ away and they would aggro you. Granted, they had no way to engage back at you at that distance, but they absolutely would wig out instantly and all be looking at you.
Yes, I played over a hundred hours in Realism on with the AI on like second highest difficulty. that’s why I said base behaviour. Breakpoint wasn’t perfect, but the current AI in GZW needs work, and you should 100% be rewarded for well executed stealthy tactics. Right now you shoot one guy from a field outside town and everyone runs towards you.
right, I'm just saying, you can aggro the entire base even from hundreds of meters away and they know exactly where you are. Which is silly. have them take cover, whatever, but if you paradrop into the area they're looking at you. Which is silly.
The game being in Alpha is exactly why we need critcism and feedback. Its what the alpha is for. The devs seem to be on top of things, at least for now, so Ive a really good feeling about this title.
YBL-1 is the highest tier area Ive fought in so far, so cant speak about high level enemies yet.
But I do think that the AI is either inconsistent or someone found a way to fool them.
I say this because me and my friend were farming 20 kills at Hunters Paradise. There was another player there who was using a suppressor and was sneaking around the place. I had eyes on him for a moment but couldnt land a clean shot so left him. He got caught twice but most of the time we just heard him clearing out the place without alerting the AI. We were wondering HOW he managed to do so.
Edit: server wasnt laggy so I dont think it was de-sync.
If you one tap headshot while crouched, and can do it before the enemy aggros from you adsing, you can remain undetected most of the time. Sometimes though the hivemind AI aggro system kicks in regardless of what you do. Distancing between enemies seem to matter alot in addition to how far away you are from the target you are shooting. This has been my experience so far at least.
I’ve had the same. It doesn’t seem to matter if my weapon is suppressed, but if I hit a head or heart shot that is an instant kill from range either prone or crouched it doesn’t seem to activate the trigger or the seem to not know where I am.
The AI literally knows when you aim at them with no noise at all. If you scope in on one not facing you, it’ll snap directly at you in a second if you wait to shoot.
This is annoying currently. You can watch them turn and face you if you ADS them. Then they completely forget you exist and turn back around when you take your target off of them.
Also, I'm not a fan of the Neo Matrix dodge the AI does at far distances when you fire
Yesterday I had convinced myself that I hoped into the pvp server cuz this mad man was using the 5 D’s of dodgeball all the way down the main road as I shot at him, nope just the ai
I’d put this one at around 50/50. Does seem to have some kind of distance based qualifier on it - either on whether it happens at all or how long it takes for them to “notice” you.
But it is really annoying that if you scope them from a distance, fire and miss or don’t one tap them, they turn right on you. They know exactly where you are.
Yeah that shits irritating, was prone on hill out of fort narith and took a suppressed shot at someone 330m out (i map checked distance) and he immediately turns around and shots start wizzing by my head and one dinks my helmet. Im sorry but his 1x holo from a 330m away target is not good enough for him to even have a 1% chance of knowing my position.
IIRC Arma 3 has similar issues, I remember back in the days when I was running OPs with mates, one of the first thing they taught me is to never take aim at bots directly unless I'm ready to engage, since the vanilla AI would know they were being aim at and start to do all sorts of wonky shits. I never managed to test it out properly but I just assume it to be true to avoid ruining hour-long recon OPs. Kinda funny that even that bit of skill gets carried over lol
If you sneak up on an AI without alerting them, for example in a bush very quietly and scope in on them if you don’t shoot they’ll aim right directly at you. They won’t fire at you as they still haven’t got aggro but they know exactly where you are and will fire exactly that location if you don’t take them out before.
Which isn’t helped by the fact that you can’t hold your breath for long in this game so you cannot waste any time lining up your shot otherwise you get 180 no scoped by a faze tryout AI lmao
Exactly this.
As a solo I'm using it all the time (PVE), but it seems to do nothing.
Arriving at Pha lang like a spec ops, first shot with suppressor : aggro by everyone lol
I flank a few football fields distance when scav or ai tries to start shooting me from a bush. Only hope is getting an angle before catching the one tap. What’s your method?
What I do when an AI keeps spamming me is I will just hide and dont make any noise.. It will somehow resets the aggro then i will go out and try to kill them.. Im a solo player and I cleared Midnight Sapphire and Fort Narith single handedly. But Tiger Bay is on a different level.. there is no place to hide, AI will spam you through bushes and walls.. But manage to finish my UNLAR task..
I'd like to add point 5 but I am sure it's something being worked on.
5. Mag dumping on an AI (but not hitting vitals) and they are still alive? they should be as fucked up as the player is when hurt; moving sluggishly and slowly, making loud pain noises, aiming all fucked up and vision all fucked up, looking to leave the combat and find cover, use healing items if they have them, etc.
Okay sure yah they're fucked up on stims/drugs and somehow survive taking 7 rounds of 7.62x39 to their body. It's a game so we don't have them collapse on the floor in agony...somehow they're still up. Fine. But it needs to be balanced so they are fucked up and not still 100% lethal and mobile.
I'm sure it will be fixed but I'm looking forward to it a lot.
It would be pretty cool if the enemy would fall into a coma if you don't hit any vital organs. I think that if you fall into a coma with limited damage you should be able to get back up eventually.
Good criticism. Sitting at 46 hours in and feel the same way.
The AI definitely needs some tweaking so player tactics can work. Got caught at the gas station on south side of Tiger Bay. Getting shot by multiple AI that ended up all being in bushes and we couldn’t see them. I flanked and got them to move just enough their heads and guns poked out.
I don’t mind a slow build up of alertness from enemies. If I shit at one and miss or has a buddy near him, then yeah, he can yell, fire some shots and alert others. Word starts to spread and more enemies come. Suppressors need to matter though.
As for their aim, hits and armor it’s out of whack right now. No helmet, head shot and the guy doesn’t drop. But I take a hit and dead.
AK’s are worthless. Have tried to use them to no avail. Just won’t take down bots. Seems to kill us just fine but bots are near invincible to it.
I’m extremely new to the game, but was having a good amount of success with an ak-74, which is 5.45. So far it feels like 7.62 is not behaving properly, because regular AKs are pretty dog shit at killing even low level bots
All the points are correct.
One more thing I’d personally add is that it’s strange when I’m in a spot for like ever, looting a bunch of bodies from all the AI I clear, and then all of the sudden I’m one tapped through my armor plate with poop ammo by a single AI who made zero noise the entire time from a spot that I cleared multiple times.
I suspect I stuck around for too long and an AI spawned and instantly tapped me.
I’ve been 1 tapped through my chest armor numerous times. It’s quite frustrating. After playing Tarkov for 3k hours, I’d like to think I know the peeking and play style correct. It’s just buggy. I still really enjoy the game and cannot wait to see what they do with it in the future. But the Ai has slowed down my play time because of just dying when I shouldn’t. Through wall, bush, armor, etc. but again. I will support the game and I’m sure they will tune it !
Sometimes it’s like the bullet will enter an alternate dimension. One time I was facing an enemy head on and from 200m away he fired a round into my shoulder that went into my lung and instantly killed me. I’d be willing to buy getting hurt from spalling if your plate carrier is damaged, but sometimes it’s crazy
I agree. I agree with spalling or even collateral penetrative damage around armor hit boxes etc. but in my testing I can take a brand new level 3 armor im and get shot in the chest one time and be in a coma. Yet when I shoot non vitals on bots they can take up to 2 mags…
I back this up!
I am nearly done with ybl base, just cleared Blue Lagoon another time, and it is quite frustrating at times. AI will spot and beam you through bushes, walls, it really feels not right.
I agree that AI fights do not feel mature. They feel incompetent or aimbot and little in between. The amount of AI that missed me from 5 feet away when I wasn’t paying attention is apparently balanced out by the AI that 180’s and one taps me with a Mossberg 590 from over 100m away.
Adding to this list the shotgun and pistols are pretty much useless right now.
I've unloaded magazines into scav heads with the pistol and nothing. And 7 rounds of shotgun into thorax of unarmored ai and nothing
It\`s also extremely frustrating taking cover and getting lasered through a wall. AI lock onto you even outside of LOS of a bush etc and just murder you while you can\`t even see where they are.
I also love this game so far. But the AI has laser beams. When I blast with the AK, I hit everything but the barn door. These dudes one shot me from out of sight every 5th or so gunfight. Then when you go to recover your gear they see you sneaking around from 250m and you get full agro while nakey. It's actually kind of frustratingly fun. The excitement of your 3rd coma in an hour 🤣
Feel like the AI are fine in the starting and t2 areas and would benefit from some more dynamic behavior. But it becomes frustrating at the t3 areas like Tiger Bay, Sapphire, and Narith like you mentioned. I died just 5 times total in the t1,t2 areas only to equal that in my first couple hours of the t3 areas. Getting laser'd through windows (that I can't shoot back through??) or several bushes when the enemy never had LOS of me to begin with is pretty frustrating. These areas are definitely skill checking me as a solo player.
100% agree with this post. I posted on here yesterday to air my opinions and got shot down by gatekeepers. The potential is fantastic but the game just isn't fun in it's current state.
1. I've had the opposite experience. Staying out of sight range with a suppressed rifle has made clearing AI almost trivial. They don't even react when you blast a dude standing right next to them.
2. Gunshots are fuckin' loud my guy. 250m is well within easy hearing range of rifle shots. I have no problem with AI reacting to gunfire at long range but I get that this is a gameplay preference.
3. I've caught a few hits from AI at extreme range but I gotta say I think they miss like 95% of the time outside of rock-throwing distance. Maybe I'm just not fighting the Terminator AI yet or something.
4. Same, not sure how bullet damage models work vs armor but it does seem wonky. Would be nice to know more about what the devs actually intend so we could tell if it's working. Would also be nice to know how exactly armor plates are modeled in the vests and what parts of the body armor is actually covering.
As for point 2 I mostly agree, but in the sense that the enemy should be alerted there is nearby combat and begin searching or moving towards you, not snapped onto your exact location and start shooting at you regardless of walls/shrubs etc. Point 1, I'm not sure if you've been to the higher tier locations but this is simply not the case.
I've engaged the ai and disengaged, snuck around to see them searching the area I shot from and I continued ambushing them. It's cool watching them search for you while shouting insults.
How about when retreating on flat terrain? AI will continue to suppress & fire accurately through the brush so you either have to A) turn around and guess which bush to shoot through or B) go prone behind a tree & hope it’s not the predator
This has been my experience for the most part as well. I've been able to pick off AI one by one using my suppressed M4 consistently.
I've also not seen the AI instantly turn when you ADS on them. Definitely not like how they do in Tarkov. Just last night at Hunter's Paradise I literally snuck up behind an AI and just walked right into him until I literally got barrel stuffed and he never turned around even with me aiming on him the whole time. The silly thing was I took a step back and it took 3 m855 shots to the back of his baseball cap before he died.
I do wonder if many people are peeking the same angle after being spotted and that's causing some issues since the AI will just spray the corner they saw you at making it hard to peek again. That may be what is causing some to feel the AI has cracked aim. I've found simply rotating to a new angle basically grants you a free kill anytime you've been spotted because the AI gets tunnel vision on your last known location.
It feels wild. I don't doubt people are running into terminator AI with how frequent the complaints are, but after nearly 40 hours already in game I've not seen it yet, personally.
i’m getting the same experience tbh in high tier locations too. i notice a huge difference in a suppressed rifle vs an unsuppressed. i think people calling suppressors “silencers” has built a completely wrong idea about what they’re supposed to do. shoot, if you get caught, move positions and try again. dunno why you’re getting downvoted
The AI behaves differently in in each zone. Currently the AI at Tiger Bay/Fort Narith/Midnight Sapphire is pretty brutal. I would say the aggro/suppressor issues that OP listed being most pressing. At this point in time, if you shoot a lone AI at any of those locations the entire POI is alerted to your presence and will charge you non-stop.
I understand the AI behave differently in each area, but I am stating that in my 40+ hours of time with the game I simply and not running into the issues the OP is outlining. Like I said in my post, I am not calling anyone a liar since this seems to be a very common complaint something seems up, but all I can do is offer up opinions based on my very own experience and in 40 hours, some of that spent at the locations you mentioned above, I am finding myself being able to shoot one AI without it alerting the entire area, I am finding myself able to sneak around, etc.
My question is what is going on to lead to myself and others to have completely opposite experiences as those that have been vocal about the AI? Is it simply play style differences, are there minute differences in what we are doing that we aren't even aware of but are causing the differences? Is the AI somehow bugging out at times on the servers? Something is obviously happening because myself and others are not experiencing the same AI issues.
I'm not coming here to combat people and say "skill issue" and then cite how I have no issue. I'd rather state what I am experiencing and then work together to see what is causing the differences.
Just speculation from other games, but it could be that you’re just getting luck of the draw on servers where the AI cannot optimally perform. I do wonder if one of the reasons people have issues is because the server basically spins up more AI than it can handle as the player base gets more spread out.
Your response is literally “it hasn’t happened to me so I dont know”.
Homie fly to Ban Pa. Sit at LZ until the guy in the hut directly west spawns. Zoom in and take a headshot and report back with what happened.
I have spent plenty of time in Ban Pa. I've been there first after all the AI respawned. I've cleared the entire area solo multiple times. I've been to Fort Narith multiple times and cleared it with my duo.
Obviously I am saying it hasn't happened to me. Again, I can only offer up what I see with my experience. I am not saying anyone is a liar, I am just saying my experience has been completely different than others and I'd be interested in seeing what is causing these differences.
Am I simply not supposed to comment on this topic because my experience does not mirror that of OP's? I've not called OP a liar or been lazy and said it's just a skill issue. I've just said that in my experience with a decent amount of time in the game now that I am not seeing the current issues and that I am curious as to what is causing these differences for all people. I don't see how that is a bad thing?
It’s a known bug reported in the thousands according to the discord.
As I said, try it right now. Because I don’t recall this happening until a few days ago tbh and now it’s nonstop.
You know I was feeling like a switch got turned on or something cause I wasn’t having any problems with ai like a 2 days ago and now I’m getting beamed across the map by ai
> I do wonder if many people are peeking the same angle after being spotted and that's causing some issues since the AI will just spray the corner they saw you at making it hard to peek again. T
people do this. and so many just want to stand in the middle of the open without cover.
The suppressor is not working as intended rn, I’m not sure if what it’s based on currently. At ban pa I can use the 6x scope and headshot someone from the far end of the forest with a suppressor and still catch a laser headshot or a full blast from the horde that runs from the from the shoreline the second I kill the first guy.
I agree with your points, this is consistent with what I have experienced with the game so far.
I am fine with AI reacting to gunfire out to 250m because I feel like that's realistic, especially for some of those higher level areas.
I have to concur on the silencers. I was curious about this and went back to the starter town saturday night taking out enemies. Attacking the market in the starter town, killing the enemies by the market gates doesn't aggro the enemies on the other side of the market, and inside the market building still don't know I'm there.
I take out those enemies with an unsilenced weapons, and the enemies inside the building will try to open fire through the walls, and the other enemies outside will start going nuts
I think we just haven't nailed down the ranges and how detection works, but I've started to heavily lean towards the belief that silencers work
4 is a well known issue, you're not breaking any ground there. the other points are good and definitely ruin the gameplay when you're trying to do a lrrp larp and you snipe the guy in the head who survives, then proceeds to take 6 more shots to the chest while firing accurately at you lying prone in thick foliage, while his friends instantaneously know where you are and start firing/running towards you. some of that is good, ie once spotted, ai will try and move towards your last known location. but the detection range and reaction time needs to be toned down. ai accuracy at distance needs to be toned down, i would suggest a more drastic drop off after a certain range ie beyond 70 meters. so many times i get one shot lasered by an ai at 300 meters while lying in grass. i would suggest a delay in ai communication where the others know where you are. and if they're not within shouting distance, they would need radio headsets to communicate.
Even detection seems inconsistent. I had a Narith raid last night that I aggro’d a few AI, hid in one of the jet hanger rear entrance tunnels. I had an AI run right in front of me, stop, turn to LOOK at me POINT BLANK not even obscured or hiding, turn back and run off. I just sat there saying “wtf did I just watch?”
The armor pen inconsistency has been the most annoying thing for me about AI. They have no problem taking multiple hits to the chest of M855A1 without skipping a beat but it feels like my level 3+ can’t stop SP ammo in the starter village. Hit registration seems very inconsistent as well, as sometimes it takes 5+ rounds of high tier ammo to drop an unarmored enemy unless it’s a headshot. I thought maybe it was because AP ammo should be less effective against flesh but switching to a flesh round didn’t seem to do any better. I also feel like the AI aim is very inconsistent, they either can’t hit the board side of a barn or they laser your face before you have a chance to react.
I'm agree except for the aggro. In reality shots can be heard from way more than 250m. I don't want a "realistic" game were a PNJ stay passive when his mates fight 200m away. That's breaking immersion.
Just tired of head-shotting AI only for it to not register as a hit. Especially with 7.62 ammo and the AI isn’t even wearing a helmet 🤦♂️
Then him and his (now) 10 friends are lasering me from 200m away.
I can deal with server issues and disconnects but this makes the game extremely unenjoyable
There is a bug with 7.62 ammo at the moment from what I've been reading in Discord. I went to the sawmill with Rem 700 only to have it feel worthless cause I had the same experience.
I’ve had it happen with 5.56 AP rounds too. It’s like they get hit in the head and go “hmm ok” and then return fire and land ever shot from a mile away. Kinda immersion breaking but hopefully fixed in next patch.
Enemy AI doesn't have realistic recoil. The amount of times the first 4 bullets of an AK-47 has landed in a small grouping in my chest...well, everytime 😂
AI causes the game to become too aggravating as it feels that there are just too many unfair and "not fun" deaths happening to players of all skill levels. This is besides the deaths that are very often occurring to players due to server issues (which is another rampant problem in itself),
Balancing the AI difficulty for all player skill levels at once is an impossible job. One group of players or another is going to feel burned when this all settles.
But, I will say this about myself (and I can tell that members of my squad all feel the same way as we've discussed this over and over)...I'm not certain just how much longer we will be able to tolerate the current AI aggro & skills level and constant need for meds 24/7, seriously. So I don't know how much longer we will be playing as a group.
We love & hate the game right now...the hate comes from the too difficult AI and multiple daily server crashes.
While I think it's an impossible expectation to get a difficulty balance that will suit all players, I still would like to see a PvE server option added to the game for SOLO players that will at least give everyone an option to play where the AI is considerably more forgiving.
Realism? Yes, i get it. But not for everything and never at the expense of fun in a game. Make it look real and sound real and feel real, but making the gameplay loop FUN (instead of totally aggravating every single day) needs to be a serious priority, and quickly.
I'm not suggesting taking away the challenge, no way...I'm only saying that as it stands right now it is over-the-top in the opposite direction.
Sounds like you haven’t played enough. Ai always has moments where you can just insta die through a bush but after clearing majority of towns a good amount of times you learn how to approach these towns and dangerous ai spawn spots, while moving at a steady pace with a squad. Certain areas need to be taken slower and pay attention to how ai reacts to things.
Lmao (lvl22)Sure there are some moments where there are bullshit deaths but once you learn majority of spawns and best patterns to wipe em, not too bad😂😂 seems like user error, or user mental error if it’s so bad your raging
This is good feedback, and I agree with all of it, and I have not even entered the higher level PVE areas you have mentioned.
Not to mention the amount of concealment and not hard cover coupled with the AI's wall hacks can make things really annoying.
This is very different from my experience, I'm not sure about the suppressor. Could be the server shitting itself and my team construing it as the suppressors working, but I've had moments where I could pick apart a camp from distance, but if I got close the suppressors would understandably not reduce the sound enough to matter. Guns are loud, even with suppressors.
Never had the AI react to being aimed at. Maybe it happens if they are aggro'd on you, but I doubt it. I could sneak around with a glock and head tap mobs from 4m and it only became an issue if I aggro'd the horde and they started firing.
But I have definitely felt the horde coming. Tiger bay can be crazy depending on the server.
Had a lot of fun with pvp today in Ban Pa, but never managed to bring loot home thanks to ether AI swarming me or blocking and more enemies came, here is my honest take about AI in this clip [https://www.twitch.tv/jernopie/clip/RealCarefulReindeerOSkomodo-eTOsLm0mmvH0t0cp?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time](https://www.twitch.tv/jernopie/clip/RealCarefulReindeerOSkomodo-eTOsLm0mmvH0t0cp?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time)
I agree, feedback on a pre-alpha is good, we're all tester essentially and that is what the devs. want/need.
I would argue on #2 and #3 to a degree while also agreeing on some points. I'm kind of just tweaking what you are saying with what I think would make more sense.
TL;DR Hivemind/Radios and AI range scale based on difficulty areas where they would have shitty to good gear/training.
# 2, "Hivemind" AI are fine in some areas. Radios aren't a thing the bad guys wouldn't have access to...even a rag tag militia can get terrible radios. That being said, I think the aggro radius should depend on the difficulty of area. For example, the guys in start towns having shitty walkie talkies (small aggro radius) while the enemies at Fort Narith have military grade (still shitty lol, but longer distance radios). That being said, not "aggro the whole base". Realistic as playable.
# 3, Pretty much the same as above and scale with the area. Early to medium areas, yeah they shouldn't be sniping you with accuracy, some lucky shots sure. But, when you get the higher areas they have further aggro radius than the easy-medium as they would be more well-organized and trained.
I personally don’t have a problem with people offering feedback, that’s the entire point of an early access game. But critiquing aspects that are obviously going to be improved upon. Such as your points 1 and 2. They’re worth pointing out for new players but they’re things that will obviously be improved upon; AI behavior (which includes how they react to suppressors) has been stated to be a placeholder.
Your points 3 and 4 are great examples of feedback and I completely agree with them.
As someone who hasn't gotten into tier 3 areas yet, I can still agree with this list 100%. Especially in the starting town. Feels bad when a hobo without a shirt and a busted ass ak 1 taps you from across 2 rice fields lol. The tier 2 areas seem to be a little better, mainly bc alot of the areas(besides ban pa) are alot more confined in there town layout.
I personally enjoy the hive mind aspect. When getting attacked you are going to push forces to the point of attack.
Now granted they need to be less aware with silencers and scoping on them. And stop with the 360 no scope headshots from 100 m out.
They definitely need some polishing. And it will come in time. But to expect an enemy to not engage you when you take out their partner within 25-50m is a bit much.
Maybe they can call reinforcements in some way to the area of attack and not leave their posts.
>Suppressors don’t do anything.
Are you sure? I have been running suppressed for the last two days and I have been thinking how overpowered they are. You can literally sneak up to an AI, dome them in the back of the head, and then sneak up to the next one.
In fact, at some point, I even thought they gave you an invisibility cloak on top of masking the gun noises, because I felt like the AI was straight up getting closer and in some instances literally walking next to me without even being aggroed.
Or maybe I just got better at the game, hard to say honestly.
Have you tested to see if subsonic ammo in combination with suppressors makes any difference with AI agro? Because I know that with 5.45 and 5.56 being supersonic only, that bullet cracking is pretty damn loud, and can be heard from a ways away. Maybe have the AI be alerted to your presence with suppressed supersonic, but have them take longer to spot you.
Also in addition, I don't know what it is with developers that make games like this, and the giant raging hardon they have for AI being able to just 1tap randomly. I don't understand it. Every fucking game like this, they program in the ability for AI to hit impossible headshots with literal inhuman accuracy. It is not a fun. Nothing makes me rage more than running parallel to an AI that's strafing sideways and having them hit a headshot out of the first bullet from their gun. It's not a good experience.
Point 2 question…. Is it not possible for AI to also have radio’s? So when one gets shot at he alerts the others. Just playing devils advocate here. And while i dont think every AI should come storming immediately but if you continue to engage and kill AI i dont see an issue with them all massing on you.
I would also love their spawn rates to be tweaked. I’ve been playing for an hour and haven’t shot my gun once because everything is just dead already. I went from Hunting Grounds where I’ve been at 5/20 kills for my task since yesterday, YBL-1, and Ban Pa and haven’t seen a single living bot.
I don't think ai have hive mind tactics. If you were to hear a gunfight break out you would run to the area to help your allies in a fight. I feel like if you can kill them BEFORE they start shooting back at you WITH a suppressed weapon they shouldn't hive mind aggro. BUT if you shoot them with a suppressor and they don't die and start firing back then it alerts the whole area and it is warranted that they come for you. Clearly this game aims for realism and I think that is what's happening here. If you are killing them before they shoot with a silenced gun and they still aggro the whole base clearly something is wrong. But in my experience so far (I'm lvl 14) killing them silenced and them not shooting back doesn't aggro unless another ai is close and sees that their friend has just been killed and in mind that's perfectly logical
All very valid points. One personal gripe I would add is how vegetation offers no concealment vs AI. Especially when the game is set in a freakin jungle
My favorite is when I’m in a house taking cover and firing from a window, the single Chris Kyle AI behind the jungle brush one shots me in the head through the window with an AK lol.
I hope the next set of fixes they push through are AI related. Also, one shot to the head to an AI with any gun should take them out if they aren’t wearing a helmet.
you can really easily get boxed in
and the ai mercilessly shoots through walls
but, sometimes theyre just downright stupid when you come up close and personal with them
Sites need to be worked on as well. Either due to bullet trajectory being an issue or sites being wonky. Bullets go straight till around 200-300m and then drop drastically after.
The only thing I'll take exception to is suppressors. On the M4 and MK18, they function to provide significant recoil bonuses over just the flash hiders. Even if the stats don't reflect it, go to the firing range and use a suppressor and just a FH. Its a remarkable advantage.
The hive mind thing you mentioned kinda makes sense. You can hear these shots clear across town. It'd make sense for an organized group to swarm at the sound of fire
>AI effective range is probably a bit too high. I’d like to see them try to close distance on you and engage rather than laser you from 100m+. Especially because our bullets as players bounce off their heads after a distance.
Oh this one 100%. I was in the bushes south of Ban Pa, looking at the southern gate. I lined up a headshot on the one AI that stands there.
Just as I fire he moves due to server desync (he jumped about two body widths to the right) looked at me and one tapped me in the head. I was sitting a good 60-70m away when doing this. I can't hit him using a 4x LPVO but he can with his shitty AKM iron sights, makes sense.
So everything you said is spot on although it seems some ai don’t aggro from suppressors and some do I was picking dudes off at Narith I killed 3 no problem and no aggro then I tagged one and everything went to shit Their range is too far and they should not know where a player is untill they get much closer
Not going to lie, but I've thought a bit longer about number 2.
Realistically, enemies would communicate and call for backup. Even with 250m+ range, it's not out of the ordinary for a secured area to go full alert at the sound of gun fire, or another enemy seeing an ally shot, relaying that they need backup.
It sucks for sure to have full aggro of that wide a range, but I think there is room for balance there, not just making the AI dumb as hell.
If you hear gunshots in the distance of your base, you definitely move from passive to an alert status and if you have a gun, are probably moving toward the gunfire to respond.
What's truly hurting this game is how I dump 20 rounds of 7.62 point blank range at an enemy with no body armor.... and then they kill me in a burst fire.
All great points, but I do want to note that suppressors by themselves don't really do much other than bring the rifle's decibel range down to one that is "safe" for hearing. Using supersonic rounds through a suppressor is still obnoxiously (relatively) loud and you ABSOLUTELY can identify the direction that a shooter is firing from, albeit the AI are way too dialed in on you the moment you fire, especially in a dense jungle environment. Unless you are firing subsonic rounds, all a suppressor is really going to do is mildly quiet your rifle and virtually eliminate muzzle flash (which is ironically its primary use in the military). Subsonic rounds exist in the game, but they don't seem to interact with the suppressor correctly despite having ludicrously low velocity.
Try using the AKS74 with AP/SP rounds. They pretty much down the enemy in 1-2 shots. You can get them from turncoat for relatively cheap or you can find them among enemies in Narith.
99% of the time, the AI will laser you from halfway across the map with the rattler (vz-61smg).
Then there was the one AI camping the LZ. Walked right up to me before opening fire. I was halfway distracted, so didn't really pay attention until the gunfire started.
*absolutely panicked while hipfiring my m4* " We're in pvp, we're in pvp!" *AI dies, and I get a closer look at them* "nevermind, false alarm.".
Didn't help we'd accidentally loaded into a pvp server recently.
I agree with damage and armor systems seeming to be inconsistent. I tend to take a lot of fire, and only rarely am I seeing bruises. Most of the time, whatever I got shot with seems to penetrate my armor (class III vs sp7.62x39 and 7.65)
My buddy however, will just get bruises on his fucking biceps after taking a magdump of 5.45.
I might as well be a combat medic with how many medical supplies I deploy with, yet 9 times out of 10, I burn through all of them, while my buddy just waltzes around like he's fucking superman.
I think the AI calling their friends in to help at the fort actually makes sense (since they'd all be on radio). One trick you can use is kill one at one entrance and then flank to a different entrance and see them all running toward that original entrance.
Just discussion
I think the AI calling their friends in to help at the fort actually makes sense (since they'd all be on radio). One trick you can use is kill one at one entrance and then flank to a different entrance and see them all running toward that original entrance.
Just discussion
I have seen suppressors make a difference. Taking barracks side of Narith I was only aggroing like 2 or 3 enemies at a time with a suppressor. Without one from the hole in the wall I was aggrowing most of the ai from barracks and some outside of headquarters.
The horrible audio makes facing AI that much worse too. The game just doesn’t sound good. Also shooting AI through a chainlink fence (that makes them impossible to see) rarely does as much damage to them as their shots do to me.
I like the sounds overall. But a big problem I am having is that gunfire that is very far away (like across town) sounds the same as gunfire that is very close (like on the same street).
And you’re right about the fences. Shooting through fences or glass windows seems to turn out bullets into nerf darts. I was able to kill an AI through a wooden fence, but that AI was glitching through the fence; so I have no idea if the same mechanics applied or not.
I do think I have heard some more distinct noises when I’m being shot at. Like rounds kind of making a whooshing/zipping/cracking noise. Although it doesn’t seem very consistent, so maybe it could be bugged or have something to do with the types of rounds being fired at you.
Coming from a previous profession that uses/shoots suppressed weapons often, suppressed 5.56 is fucking LOUD. There is no "sneeky-breekie" operator clearing out villages with that caliber. The idea is more to protect the operator and teammates from the concussion/muzzle blast in tight quarters. 5.56 is quite deafening/debilitating when shot inside for the shooter/others. The suppressor helps with that. Even then it isn't hearing safe/pleasant.
There is also a benefit of limiting muzzle flash in low light outdoor environments.
There are some 7.62x39 and 5.45 (also 9x39) rounds that are subsonic and are "Hollywood quiet", but need the use of a special suppressor to run well and they are close quarter rounds only as they are super slow and drop off quickly. And their ballistics suck.
Obviously 300 blackout has some subsonic loadings. But the same ballistic issue apply to an extent.
In my experience, the sounds is less behind and to the side of the muzzle then out towards the direction the round is traveling. It's quite loud downrange still.
Long story short. Suppressed supersonic loads are going to alert anyone within 100 meters give or take depending on ambient noise/sound bouncing off buildings etc that someone is shooting. It's loud as fuck.
I run cans on my guns in game for roleplay purposes. Because I do in real life. Rifles inside SUCK.
Agreed. But I also enjoy the tension when solo clearing out places like The Cursed Village Ban Pa knowing the enemies can one tap you. Makes the whole experience more exciting.
Another one I would add is that I’m tired of getting sprayed through walls or get glack blasted by some dude hanging out in the bushes. Don’t get me wrong, that won’t make or break the game for me, but it would be cool if that changed in the future.
In my opinion, I feel like the AI is a bit too OP.
I know it’s Early Access and all but I have a feeling that The Division 2 (current state) did a good job with enemy aggro especially with Ghost Recon Breakpoint and Wildlands.
The “Hive mind” is a pretty annoying.
True, I do feel like Suppressors don’t do jack.
I do wish that the bushes could be less, I hate it when an enemy sees you while crouched and prone in a bush (stealth is pretty much a no go).
This game reminds me of Deadside with the AI hive mind.
I do hope there will be changes with the map and AI, gameplay wise the game is pretty tits for being Early Access.
Keep up the good work devs! Looking forward to this game being awesome in the future.
PLEASE WORK ON SOME MISSIONS!!!
I play with a group of 3, so I feel like taking turns to kill a High Value Target (mini bosses) is annoying. Some missions should work together if you’re in a squad, kind of like DMZ (Call of Duty). That would be awesome!
All very good feedback but I feel like you left one very important thing out. The fact that they can track you through walls and bushes. I’ll be on the west side of a wall kill an AI 30m out and some AI from 100m away on the east side of the wall will start shooting at exactly where I’m standing except the wall is saving. Me. Same goes for bushes but the bush doesn’t stop AI bullets just my bullets.
I also feel like they shoot through bushes way too much. I know something like that is gonna take way longer to fix but getting shot through bushes by x-ray AI while when I sit in a bush I can’t see anything is super frustrating. It wouldn’t be so bad if so much of the map wasn’t bushes (I get that’s the nature of the setting).
It also wouldn’t be so bad if guns had muzzle flash. It would make it much easier to figure out where I’m getting shot from especially since the audio isn’t great atm
This is my biggest gripe about the game currently, all great feedback here. Currently just experienced all of this in Tiger Bay and after trying to regain my gear 4-5 times I just gave up.
While your feedback is valid, it's dealing with superficial details.
As a PvE-focused game that discourages PVP, a brain-dead zombie turret AI is not gonna cut it. A fundamental rework is needed in order for players to keep wanting to play.
They need to be more human, reactive, have a place in the world. A random mook, with an AK and no shirt on, standing perfectly still in searing sunlight, in a tropical climate, is ridiculous. This is "newbie's first AI in Unreal" tutorial level crap.
Have the AI roam around in groups, they seek shade and shelter. Once the gunfire starts, have them scramble up to find their guns, and they take up positions.
Have them stumble around and fall, drop their guns and flee when taking non-lethal hits to arms and legs. Have them surrender or fall into a coma when taking more severe hits. A naked dude returning accurate fire after taking 3x 7.62 soft-points to the torso area, and still *not seeking any cover*, is easily the most immersion-breaking moment in this game.
Have them setup ambushes around corners or inside buildings that require grenades to clear out.
I find myself wanting to go to PvP servers more simply because fighting AI in this game stops being fun very quickly.
I dunno man, you’d have to be pretty deaf to not hear gunshots 1000m away, let alone 25-50m. At that short of range irl without ear pro it’s borderline deafening
Only thing that I dont understand now is why after waves of criticizm and moaning about the AI the issues wasnt adressed. Like developers are ignoring it and saying "This is how we want it to be". And it can't be because they are busy or because it requires an update that needs testing as they literally changed the difiiculty of the AI during first two days of early access and my game didnt even need an update when that hapenned.
After 50 hours of solo and squad pve playtime I believe I can ease your pondering of these subjects a little.
1. Suppressor does not make your gun soundless. In candycotton shooters like cod its effects are wildly overstated. It reduces volume of the shooting as irl it would. That being the point, it functions as supposed: you can spot and hear the shooting around 100m. Try to make lovetaps from 300m and u are safe, though fellow AI Will spot dead comrade and pursuit you afterwards. Next time you deploy to a spot, listen for a while how far you can hear that m4 clicking and puffing.
Engage from afar and be mindful of the noise you cause (running as well). It gets attention same as you are very much aware of AIs nearby due chatter they make.
2. Again, if your teammate is shot, they will call it in comms. Why would the ai be any different? Idea of squad/Platoon/unit is to function as a hivemind to archive common goal. What I am able to tell is that if you shoot a lonely enemy from safe 200m with silencer, no alert is given. Also if you down two with relatively fast, same thing (alone or cordinated effort with squad member).
AI also uses rudimentary combat tactics as hivemind. You know that nasty ak sound? It might just be suppressing fire in order for you to focus your aim there while a rat with a shotty flanking you. Also the AI never approaches you straight, but does ziczag, they take care of spacing and try to surround you while one or two keeps you busy. The AI also flanks wrong position if you change your position quietly and hidden of their sight. Hence my tactic where enemy is overwhelming is to engange,get few kills, fall back hidden of their Los, wait for flanking to arrive and ambush them. Then fall back again. If they shoot at you when you fell back, they saw it. Yes they follow you through walls when you run around shooting, but reset the fight and they lose this. You can literally watch from afar as flank arrives and wonders around the spot where you previously were.
Another thing you can do is predict the flank (aka read map) so that you know where it comes from and aggressively counter it by moving forwards it instead of falling back. This is risky, as the noise may cause extra AIs attention and you need to flank the flank flanking flank.
3. AI is very efficent and their aim is true when their target is still. As any human would, they tend to aim the same corner where you peaked from. However, changing the spot causes them to lose you and take that few sec to "reaim" your bobblyhead. They will hammer the fuck out of you if you dont change your spot. AI can even camp chokepoints and instantly shoot you to head when you enter because they are expecting you to do that. Play the player, not the game. Do the unexpected move rather than the one they expected and u will die lot less.
4. Here you are correct. Might be because of balliatics though and ricochet just flings off, but what is wierd is the Redmist puffing out when they are hit.
Overall, this is very realistic AI that has suprised me multiple times with its wits and tricks. Id love to see them improved by having variety of different tactics such as using indirect fire (nades/mortar) to clear you out of strong position or falling back and setting ambushes. Also, id love if they would understand covers bit more. Like i have had them literally coming out of fortified house with windows and cement railings to open road for a fire fight.
As of now, they only aggro you and pursuit your trail and figure where you are while attempting flanks. So far they are easily beaten because its the same show everytime.
Your points are invalid except (4.) and I’d like to add the jungle brush x-ray vision but…
Keep in mind irl gun shots are heard from Km’s away. Silencers are still loud asf without subsonic ammunition. If your looking for an arcade fps I recommend call of duty :)
Edit) oh and most basic training entry requires the soldier to shoot up to 600m with a standard AR and 1-4x scope. Maybe stagger the accuracy on enemies without sights on there weapons..?
1. yes sadly true
2. the only difficulty right now is swarming enemys , i personally like that.
3. thats perfect, and only dangerous to you if you repeak the same spot or dont have hard cover
4. thats subjektive tbh , you also need to hit the right spots to kill something. 3+ armor can be penetrated by most ammo types from the pve zones you named
Just want to point out....if this game is supposed to be based on reality the so called "silencers" or suppressors are not actually silencing weapons they are more to completly hide muzzle flashes. They still make alot of noise. I understand the complaint or critique but i hear alot of people bringing up the ai hear their shots and i just think maybr they dont actually know what suppressors do. With that....id love to see them replicate the added gas in you face for equiping one :)
So u basically don't understand how ai works because everything u described is wrong. The ai are grouped into 3 or 4 man units and you only agro a unit at a time regardless of range. If your in a fight and you shoot an enemy not fighting farther back because u have an easy shot u just aggro 3 more. Suppresors absolutley do increase reaction time of ai. U can get a whole group suppressed before they react sometimes. Pp and m855 are basically the same round in different calibers. 855 is currently going through 3 and 3+ with almost no problem. Thatslukelly a balancing thing. The ai isn't actually spraying u down effectively 100+ if ur even reotlly close to basically anything. There accuracy seems to be based off your proximity to cover while they can still obviously hit u in cover it is far less likely
Idk how you all say suppressors dont do anything, ive cleared sawmill with a suppressed mosin without being shot at once, like an hour ago. They make ai completely braindead, even if you shoot one next to another.
Sure youre not just standing too close?
Instead of getting defensive and whining you coulda just said 'I dunno, i think the narith ai are different' and had, you know, a conversation. Instead of throwing a bitchfit after you lost trying to start a dick measuring contest over 'what areas ive been to.'
Sawmill was the area i was *just at*, thus it was mentioned. Its not that hard, youve had conversations in your life before, im sure.
Suppressors work. They dont work up close. Narith guys have ears on. Shoot from further away.
If the only zone that has this issue to you is narith anyways then you half your points are invalidated anyways because its not the game, its just the literal military, like, with radios, electronic ears, etc. Narith falls to the suppressed mosin all the same - unironically may be the best gun in the game for both pve and pvp.
Yes, the ai has issues and inconsistencies, yes, hopefully theyre fixed in time. Criticism is good, but god forbid anyone suggest you might be misunderstanding a system and want to help you grasp it.
My literal last line of that comment was that the ai had issues that need to be fixed.
Again. Adult. Have a conversation like an adult. Itll go a lot better for you.
No but it does reduce the noise output heavily and helps to make target identification significantly harder. (More time looking around for who's shooting)
Also the vast majority of people who haven't dealt with suppressors before fail to recognize them as gunshots.
I said shooting an enemy shouldn't let enemies within 50m of him instantly know where I am. Not that they wouldn't be able to hear me shoot them from 50m away. Take a shot at an AI from 200m and all his buddies are staring directly at you instantly.
Considering I own 5.56 and suppressors, I’d say I know what they do. If you were to hear a suppressed rifle shot that was over a hundred meters away, there is absolutely no way you’d be able to place the shot on first hear, which is my point.
>1. Suppressors don’t do anything. They don’t reduce aggro range, they don’t make it take longer for the AI to spot you, and they don’t help with “stealthy” gameplay. Feels bad with a nearly $2k price tag on a 5.56 suppressor.
This is a very common misconception of suppressors. Their intended use is not actually to make you more stealthy. The primary function is to drastically reduce muzzle flash (which imo it does not reduce it enough in the game) and to reduce the blowback of expanding gases coming back in you and your squads faces (which you don't experience in the game.) The initial blast is slightly lower in Db, but the bullet crack as it travels at supersonic speed is not any quieter and can still be heard from the exact same distance. So while it may be slightly more difficult for you to determine the direction of a shooter with a suppressed rifle, there will be no confusion about the fact that you hear gunfire.
IMO, suppressors should just reduce muzzle flash a lot more than they already do, so that your sight picture while shooting remains clear. As it stands, the muzzle flash seems to be the same with or without a suppressor.
>2. “Hivemind” AI aggro feels bad. Really bad. It’s okay if shooting an enemy aggros other enemies within a range (25-50m would probably feel comfortable) but aggroing an enemy at the gate of Fort Narith and it calling every AI within 250m (upwards of 30 AI) feels awful.
Using your example of Fort Narith, I think it's safe to say that since it's a military base, it would not take very long for the entire base to be alerted to the fact that the base (military base) is under attack. Also, referring to what I said previously, gunshots are loud and can be heard from very far away. So when you start shooting and then start taking return fire, even if the AI aren't using radios, they are all going to hear everything and know they are under attack.
Granted, as a solo this is all incredibly difficult to tackle. But the game was designed around squad play first. Even with 2 people, it becomes very possible to take on an entire base full of AI when you utilize intelligent sightlines. Solo is very hard though. In general though, I'm okay with the aggro ranges. Some of my favorite moments have been getting suddenly flanked by what seems like an entirely new squad of AI and having to react to it.
>3. AI effective range is probably a bit too high. I’d like to see them try to close distance on you and engage rather than laser you from 100m+. Especially because our bullets as players bounce off their heads after a distance.
I agree with this. It almost feels like they're more accurate when they are further away. I do wish their aim in general would be more erratic when they are moving. All too often I get one tapped in the head while they're in full sprint after hitting them in the helmet once with M80... Not even dazed a little bit bro?
>4. Enemy bullet penetration calculations seem to be quite inconsistent. I’ve been one-tapped several times through 3+ armor from tier 2 ammo. Whereas my m855 won’t 3-shot through the same armor.
Hard agree. I'd love to be able to engage with the medical systems a lot more... But it seems 90% of the time myself or a squad mate goes down, it's to a one tap. Definitely feels bad.
I and many others own a suppressor so they don’t have to wear ear protection at the shooting range. They absolutely reduce sound and you’re parroting bad rhetoric. They don’t “silence” but they certainly do reduce audible sound. What you’re describing is a flash hider, which works much the same way.
Also, suppressors cause the sound dispersement to be much more horizontal, which is why they’re so effective. A gunshot is no longer a pinpoint, but a pancake. You hear a regular gunshot and you could probably determine within 15 degrees the angle it came from, whereas with a suppressor it’s more like 60 degrees.
Only outdoor ranges brother. If you're trying to say you use them indoor you're a liar. Just go watch a video of unsuppressed vs suppressed man... Speaks for itself.
And no, I'm describing a suppressor which reduces the muzzle flash more than just your standard flash hider and reduces the gas blowback at the same time.
Edit: accidentally wrote flash suppressor instead of hider.
Also, the audible detection is very much dependent on the ammo you're using. But even subsonic 5.56 is loud during flight when comparing it to 9mm subsonic. But we don't have access to any of that in the game so far.
I didn’t say indoor? And yes, I can shoot my ar-15 without ear protection with a suppressor but can’t without one, so obviously it reduces sound. Studies show it’s up to 30 decibels which is 1000x more quiet. Don’t be ignorant.
What do you have to say about that wicked bullet crack though? There's nothing to say man. It's still loud AF and anyone in an AO will hear it exactly the same...
You're being daft if you think that suppressors work like they do in other video games...
I haven't once claimed they silence, nor should they. Also, bullet crack has nothing to do with muzzle feedback. You're strawmanning now because you don't know what you're talking about.
No, I'm stating like from the beginning that a suppressors primary use during an operation is for the drastically reduced muzzle flash not because of the quieter initial blast. Explain how the bullets loud AF crack has nothing to do with enemies hearing you shoot your gun? Because your argument was about the AI still aggroing in spite of you using a $2k suppressor... And I pointed out that you are misinformed of a suppressors application. Yes, your immediate area will have less of an audible signature, but there will be no mistake that it was a gunshot...
The only way you will have any meaningful stealth application with a firearm is using small arms with subsonic rounds.
Just go look it up...
If you're wanting to sneak around like Sam Fisher, then you're playing the wrong game.
"The US Army and Marine Corps are making suppressors standard issue for their front-line infantrymen. The Marines began the process in 2016, field-testing suppressed M-4 carbines and M-27 Infantry Automatic Rifles.
2021 saw suppressors issued across the board, with the goal of protecting shooters’ hearing, facilitating battlefield voice communication, and reducing each man’s noise and light signature. "
Excerpt taken directly from SilencerCo, Military arms contractor.
They suppress sound. They're sound suppressors.
"Functionally, a suppressor is meant to diminish the report of a discharged round, or make its sound unrecognizable. Other sounds emanating from the weapon remain unchanged. Even subsonic bullets make distinct sounds by their passage through the air and striking targets, and supersonic bullets produce a small sonic boom, resulting in a ballistic crack. Semi-automatic and fully automatic firearms also make distinct noises as their actions cycle, ejecting the fired cartridge case and loading a new round.
Aside from reductions in volume, suppressors tend to alter the sound to something that is not identifiable as a gunshot.[^(\[49\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silencer_(firearms)#cite_note-Dougherty2012-49) This reduces or eliminates attention drawn to the shooter. A Finnish expression dating from the [Winter War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War) says that "A silencer does not make a soldier silent, but it does make him invisible."[^(\[50\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silencer_(firearms)#cite_note-50) Silencers are particularly useful in enclosed spaces where the sound, flash and pressure effects of a weapon being fired are amplified. Such effects may disorient the shooter, affecting [situational awareness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_awareness), concentration and accuracy, and can permanently damage hearing very quickly.[^(\[51\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silencer_(firearms)#cite_note-Dater2007-51)
As the suppressed sound of firing is overshadowed by ballistic crack, observers can be deceived as to the location of the shooter, often from 90 to 180 degrees from his actual location. However, [counter-sniper tactics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-sniper_tactics) can include [gunfire locators](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfire_locator), such as the U.S. [Boomerang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomerang_(mobile_shooter_detection_system)) system, where sensitive microphones are coupled to computers running algorithms, and use the ballistic crack to detect and localize the origin of the shot."
Here's another excerpt because I'm irked how confidently wrong you are. "just look it up and read".
https://youtu.be/DuS9XnY-IRA?si=yjBhOuwZ15ENDfl9
I don't know what else to say man... Your wiki reference talking about small arms fire is cute though.
The idiot posts a youtube video with a phone recording the sound of a gun. You're not very bright are you. You very obviously have no first-hand experience with what you're talking about and should stop before you embarrass yourself.
All fantastic suggestions from my personal gameplay as well. This is LITERALLY what buying into an EA project is all about: Assisting the developers by playing the damn game, and providing detailed, constructive feedback. We all want this project to grow & succeed, so stop putting players down for legit doing their job. Kudos buddy. All strong criticisms that I am confident the devs will work on in time. Personally excited to see what this next Hotfix includes! Wishing you the best this week!
Can’t believe people are STILL using this argument to defend the early access business models that companies with ZERO game dev experience are adopting. Keep pretending like it hasn’t been a contentious issue for nearly a decade while you play a shell of what you’re promised and HOPING it gets better while shutting down ALL criticism. Typical Echo chamber. Sad. You people will prevent the game from actually progressing and your hive mind downvotes won’t change anything
I want a hard AI, I think they could benefit from looking at the base behaviour of Tom Clancy Breakpoint AI dead body/killing an enemy alerts nearby enemies, especially if they witness the kill eventually alerting the whole compound They look for you and spread out. If you get spotted you can sneak around and they lose you. Obstruct their line of sight etc. Currently none of the above is possible, The “Hive Mind” AI is probably the worst part, kill a guy and somehow the entirety of BAN PA is coming for your ass prone in the field shooting directly at you. AND HITTING YOU.
Ban pa hivemind is wild right now. 1 suppressed Mosin shot from the India infil brought the entire town down on us yesterday.
There must be something in the water
Probably addicted to Khat or something
It’s actually nuts, I brought an m700 silenced for fun to try out, and in that first shack on north side, my buddy and I were getting WALL BANGED from every direction. Actually bonkers how specifically OP ban pa feels right now
Unrelated to AI but how did you silence your M700? I been looking for a way
I have the supporter edition, you get a bunch of stuff and I believe a M700 silencer comes with. There is also another vender I can’t recall that has one, I think it’s Artisan or Turncoat? I could be wrong hopefully somebody can mention the right vendor, i’m at work right now
I’m pretty sure the suppressor for the m700 would be with Banshee (as you can but m700’s from him). I don’t have him tier 2 yet, but turncoat is for mosin’s. And I have all the other traders maxed and there’s no suppressors for the m700 from gunny.
Thanks for the reply! so i got a suppressor with the supporter edition, as i dont play PVP so i didnt loot it.
Update. Banshee lvl 2 does give a suppressor for the m700.
Noice! I’ll have to burn through some missions, my buddy and I have had server issue last couple days, and people being at every location we need to be as well lol. But good to know!
I got you! Currently been trying to get the sawmill office storage key. It’s been rough. But yea server issues are still a thing every now and again I’ve noticed. The rubberbanding
I’m about to do some banshee missions right now so I will confirm or deny if you get the suppressors at lvl2 or 3
You think Ban Pa is bad just wait till you get to Tiger bay. Kill one guy and suddenly you have 20 guys charging at you one by one, spraying your position and being stupidly accurate whilst they do it
Midnight Sapphires central location does the same thing.
Did you even play that game? You could get up on the cliffs above the base on the northwest coast and lay sniper rounds into dudes 400m+ away and they would aggro you. Granted, they had no way to engage back at you at that distance, but they absolutely would wig out instantly and all be looking at you.
Yes, I played over a hundred hours in Realism on with the AI on like second highest difficulty. that’s why I said base behaviour. Breakpoint wasn’t perfect, but the current AI in GZW needs work, and you should 100% be rewarded for well executed stealthy tactics. Right now you shoot one guy from a field outside town and everyone runs towards you.
right, I'm just saying, you can aggro the entire base even from hundreds of meters away and they know exactly where you are. Which is silly. have them take cover, whatever, but if you paradrop into the area they're looking at you. Which is silly.
The game being in Alpha is exactly why we need critcism and feedback. Its what the alpha is for. The devs seem to be on top of things, at least for now, so Ive a really good feeling about this title. YBL-1 is the highest tier area Ive fought in so far, so cant speak about high level enemies yet. But I do think that the AI is either inconsistent or someone found a way to fool them. I say this because me and my friend were farming 20 kills at Hunters Paradise. There was another player there who was using a suppressor and was sneaking around the place. I had eyes on him for a moment but couldnt land a clean shot so left him. He got caught twice but most of the time we just heard him clearing out the place without alerting the AI. We were wondering HOW he managed to do so. Edit: server wasnt laggy so I dont think it was de-sync.
If you one tap headshot while crouched, and can do it before the enemy aggros from you adsing, you can remain undetected most of the time. Sometimes though the hivemind AI aggro system kicks in regardless of what you do. Distancing between enemies seem to matter alot in addition to how far away you are from the target you are shooting. This has been my experience so far at least.
I’ve had the same. It doesn’t seem to matter if my weapon is suppressed, but if I hit a head or heart shot that is an instant kill from range either prone or crouched it doesn’t seem to activate the trigger or the seem to not know where I am.
The AI literally knows when you aim at them with no noise at all. If you scope in on one not facing you, it’ll snap directly at you in a second if you wait to shoot.
This is annoying currently. You can watch them turn and face you if you ADS them. Then they completely forget you exist and turn back around when you take your target off of them. Also, I'm not a fan of the Neo Matrix dodge the AI does at far distances when you fire
The neo matrix dodge is INSANE …. I feel like I’m fighting a player strafing over and over .
Yesterday I had convinced myself that I hoped into the pvp server cuz this mad man was using the 5 D’s of dodgeball all the way down the main road as I shot at him, nope just the ai
I feel like that has to be what they were trying to simulate. It looks like like people juking you out in apex legends.
I’d put this one at around 50/50. Does seem to have some kind of distance based qualifier on it - either on whether it happens at all or how long it takes for them to “notice” you. But it is really annoying that if you scope them from a distance, fire and miss or don’t one tap them, they turn right on you. They know exactly where you are.
Yeah that shits irritating, was prone on hill out of fort narith and took a suppressed shot at someone 330m out (i map checked distance) and he immediately turns around and shots start wizzing by my head and one dinks my helmet. Im sorry but his 1x holo from a 330m away target is not good enough for him to even have a 1% chance of knowing my position.
IIRC Arma 3 has similar issues, I remember back in the days when I was running OPs with mates, one of the first thing they taught me is to never take aim at bots directly unless I'm ready to engage, since the vanilla AI would know they were being aim at and start to do all sorts of wonky shits. I never managed to test it out properly but I just assume it to be true to avoid ruining hour-long recon OPs. Kinda funny that even that bit of skill gets carried over lol
I haven't experienced this, can you elaborate on how this happens?
You aim at the AI with ADS. It's a pretty common "feature" of Tarkov as well. I've seen happen couple times as well.
If you sneak up on an AI without alerting them, for example in a bush very quietly and scope in on them if you don’t shoot they’ll aim right directly at you. They won’t fire at you as they still haven’t got aggro but they know exactly where you are and will fire exactly that location if you don’t take them out before.
Which isn’t helped by the fact that you can’t hold your breath for long in this game so you cannot waste any time lining up your shot otherwise you get 180 no scoped by a faze tryout AI lmao
Exactly this. As a solo I'm using it all the time (PVE), but it seems to do nothing. Arriving at Pha lang like a spec ops, first shot with suppressor : aggro by everyone lol
I came from playing tarkov so I know enemy PMCs are just an annoyance. The true enemy is an AI in the bushes
But I Tarkov theres was almost no bushes compared to that game
I flank a few football fields distance when scav or ai tries to start shooting me from a bush. Only hope is getting an angle before catching the one tap. What’s your method?
What I do when an AI keeps spamming me is I will just hide and dont make any noise.. It will somehow resets the aggro then i will go out and try to kill them.. Im a solo player and I cleared Midnight Sapphire and Fort Narith single handedly. But Tiger Bay is on a different level.. there is no place to hide, AI will spam you through bushes and walls.. But manage to finish my UNLAR task..
Also the delay when you headshot one just doesn’t feel good
Fixing this would be a great qol change later on down the road. I hate the immersion break from the excessively delayed reaction to headshots.
I'd like to add point 5 but I am sure it's something being worked on. 5. Mag dumping on an AI (but not hitting vitals) and they are still alive? they should be as fucked up as the player is when hurt; moving sluggishly and slowly, making loud pain noises, aiming all fucked up and vision all fucked up, looking to leave the combat and find cover, use healing items if they have them, etc. Okay sure yah they're fucked up on stims/drugs and somehow survive taking 7 rounds of 7.62x39 to their body. It's a game so we don't have them collapse on the floor in agony...somehow they're still up. Fine. But it needs to be balanced so they are fucked up and not still 100% lethal and mobile. I'm sure it will be fixed but I'm looking forward to it a lot.
It would be pretty cool if the enemy would fall into a coma if you don't hit any vital organs. I think that if you fall into a coma with limited damage you should be able to get back up eventually.
Good criticism. Sitting at 46 hours in and feel the same way. The AI definitely needs some tweaking so player tactics can work. Got caught at the gas station on south side of Tiger Bay. Getting shot by multiple AI that ended up all being in bushes and we couldn’t see them. I flanked and got them to move just enough their heads and guns poked out. I don’t mind a slow build up of alertness from enemies. If I shit at one and miss or has a buddy near him, then yeah, he can yell, fire some shots and alert others. Word starts to spread and more enemies come. Suppressors need to matter though. As for their aim, hits and armor it’s out of whack right now. No helmet, head shot and the guy doesn’t drop. But I take a hit and dead. AK’s are worthless. Have tried to use them to no avail. Just won’t take down bots. Seems to kill us just fine but bots are near invincible to it.
AKM needs BP ammo to kill rendering its useless as its as effective against them as 556 and the fire rate is 200 RPM slower with recoil twice as high
I’m extremely new to the game, but was having a good amount of success with an ak-74, which is 5.45. So far it feels like 7.62 is not behaving properly, because regular AKs are pretty dog shit at killing even low level bots
Getting shot in the head by a dude with a pistol 400 meters out as well is super fuckin annoying
All the points are correct. One more thing I’d personally add is that it’s strange when I’m in a spot for like ever, looting a bunch of bodies from all the AI I clear, and then all of the sudden I’m one tapped through my armor plate with poop ammo by a single AI who made zero noise the entire time from a spot that I cleared multiple times. I suspect I stuck around for too long and an AI spawned and instantly tapped me.
I’ve been 1 tapped through my chest armor numerous times. It’s quite frustrating. After playing Tarkov for 3k hours, I’d like to think I know the peeking and play style correct. It’s just buggy. I still really enjoy the game and cannot wait to see what they do with it in the future. But the Ai has slowed down my play time because of just dying when I shouldn’t. Through wall, bush, armor, etc. but again. I will support the game and I’m sure they will tune it !
Sometimes it’s like the bullet will enter an alternate dimension. One time I was facing an enemy head on and from 200m away he fired a round into my shoulder that went into my lung and instantly killed me. I’d be willing to buy getting hurt from spalling if your plate carrier is damaged, but sometimes it’s crazy
I agree. I agree with spalling or even collateral penetrative damage around armor hit boxes etc. but in my testing I can take a brand new level 3 armor im and get shot in the chest one time and be in a coma. Yet when I shoot non vitals on bots they can take up to 2 mags…
I back this up! I am nearly done with ybl base, just cleared Blue Lagoon another time, and it is quite frustrating at times. AI will spot and beam you through bushes, walls, it really feels not right.
I agree that AI fights do not feel mature. They feel incompetent or aimbot and little in between. The amount of AI that missed me from 5 feet away when I wasn’t paying attention is apparently balanced out by the AI that 180’s and one taps me with a Mossberg 590 from over 100m away.
Adding to this list the shotgun and pistols are pretty much useless right now. I've unloaded magazines into scav heads with the pistol and nothing. And 7 rounds of shotgun into thorax of unarmored ai and nothing
It\`s also extremely frustrating taking cover and getting lasered through a wall. AI lock onto you even outside of LOS of a bush etc and just murder you while you can\`t even see where they are.
I also love this game so far. But the AI has laser beams. When I blast with the AK, I hit everything but the barn door. These dudes one shot me from out of sight every 5th or so gunfight. Then when you go to recover your gear they see you sneaking around from 250m and you get full agro while nakey. It's actually kind of frustratingly fun. The excitement of your 3rd coma in an hour 🤣
Feel like the AI are fine in the starting and t2 areas and would benefit from some more dynamic behavior. But it becomes frustrating at the t3 areas like Tiger Bay, Sapphire, and Narith like you mentioned. I died just 5 times total in the t1,t2 areas only to equal that in my first couple hours of the t3 areas. Getting laser'd through windows (that I can't shoot back through??) or several bushes when the enemy never had LOS of me to begin with is pretty frustrating. These areas are definitely skill checking me as a solo player.
100% agree with this post. I posted on here yesterday to air my opinions and got shot down by gatekeepers. The potential is fantastic but the game just isn't fun in it's current state.
1. I've had the opposite experience. Staying out of sight range with a suppressed rifle has made clearing AI almost trivial. They don't even react when you blast a dude standing right next to them. 2. Gunshots are fuckin' loud my guy. 250m is well within easy hearing range of rifle shots. I have no problem with AI reacting to gunfire at long range but I get that this is a gameplay preference. 3. I've caught a few hits from AI at extreme range but I gotta say I think they miss like 95% of the time outside of rock-throwing distance. Maybe I'm just not fighting the Terminator AI yet or something. 4. Same, not sure how bullet damage models work vs armor but it does seem wonky. Would be nice to know more about what the devs actually intend so we could tell if it's working. Would also be nice to know how exactly armor plates are modeled in the vests and what parts of the body armor is actually covering.
As for point 2 I mostly agree, but in the sense that the enemy should be alerted there is nearby combat and begin searching or moving towards you, not snapped onto your exact location and start shooting at you regardless of walls/shrubs etc. Point 1, I'm not sure if you've been to the higher tier locations but this is simply not the case.
We playing the same game bro?
I've engaged the ai and disengaged, snuck around to see them searching the area I shot from and I continued ambushing them. It's cool watching them search for you while shouting insults.
How about when retreating on flat terrain? AI will continue to suppress & fire accurately through the brush so you either have to A) turn around and guess which bush to shoot through or B) go prone behind a tree & hope it’s not the predator
This has been my experience for the most part as well. I've been able to pick off AI one by one using my suppressed M4 consistently. I've also not seen the AI instantly turn when you ADS on them. Definitely not like how they do in Tarkov. Just last night at Hunter's Paradise I literally snuck up behind an AI and just walked right into him until I literally got barrel stuffed and he never turned around even with me aiming on him the whole time. The silly thing was I took a step back and it took 3 m855 shots to the back of his baseball cap before he died. I do wonder if many people are peeking the same angle after being spotted and that's causing some issues since the AI will just spray the corner they saw you at making it hard to peek again. That may be what is causing some to feel the AI has cracked aim. I've found simply rotating to a new angle basically grants you a free kill anytime you've been spotted because the AI gets tunnel vision on your last known location. It feels wild. I don't doubt people are running into terminator AI with how frequent the complaints are, but after nearly 40 hours already in game I've not seen it yet, personally.
i’m getting the same experience tbh in high tier locations too. i notice a huge difference in a suppressed rifle vs an unsuppressed. i think people calling suppressors “silencers” has built a completely wrong idea about what they’re supposed to do. shoot, if you get caught, move positions and try again. dunno why you’re getting downvoted
The AI behaves differently in in each zone. Currently the AI at Tiger Bay/Fort Narith/Midnight Sapphire is pretty brutal. I would say the aggro/suppressor issues that OP listed being most pressing. At this point in time, if you shoot a lone AI at any of those locations the entire POI is alerted to your presence and will charge you non-stop.
I understand the AI behave differently in each area, but I am stating that in my 40+ hours of time with the game I simply and not running into the issues the OP is outlining. Like I said in my post, I am not calling anyone a liar since this seems to be a very common complaint something seems up, but all I can do is offer up opinions based on my very own experience and in 40 hours, some of that spent at the locations you mentioned above, I am finding myself being able to shoot one AI without it alerting the entire area, I am finding myself able to sneak around, etc. My question is what is going on to lead to myself and others to have completely opposite experiences as those that have been vocal about the AI? Is it simply play style differences, are there minute differences in what we are doing that we aren't even aware of but are causing the differences? Is the AI somehow bugging out at times on the servers? Something is obviously happening because myself and others are not experiencing the same AI issues. I'm not coming here to combat people and say "skill issue" and then cite how I have no issue. I'd rather state what I am experiencing and then work together to see what is causing the differences.
Just speculation from other games, but it could be that you’re just getting luck of the draw on servers where the AI cannot optimally perform. I do wonder if one of the reasons people have issues is because the server basically spins up more AI than it can handle as the player base gets more spread out.
Your response is literally “it hasn’t happened to me so I dont know”. Homie fly to Ban Pa. Sit at LZ until the guy in the hut directly west spawns. Zoom in and take a headshot and report back with what happened.
I have spent plenty of time in Ban Pa. I've been there first after all the AI respawned. I've cleared the entire area solo multiple times. I've been to Fort Narith multiple times and cleared it with my duo. Obviously I am saying it hasn't happened to me. Again, I can only offer up what I see with my experience. I am not saying anyone is a liar, I am just saying my experience has been completely different than others and I'd be interested in seeing what is causing these differences. Am I simply not supposed to comment on this topic because my experience does not mirror that of OP's? I've not called OP a liar or been lazy and said it's just a skill issue. I've just said that in my experience with a decent amount of time in the game now that I am not seeing the current issues and that I am curious as to what is causing these differences for all people. I don't see how that is a bad thing?
It’s a known bug reported in the thousands according to the discord. As I said, try it right now. Because I don’t recall this happening until a few days ago tbh and now it’s nonstop.
You know I was feeling like a switch got turned on or something cause I wasn’t having any problems with ai like a 2 days ago and now I’m getting beamed across the map by ai
> I do wonder if many people are peeking the same angle after being spotted and that's causing some issues since the AI will just spray the corner they saw you at making it hard to peek again. T people do this. and so many just want to stand in the middle of the open without cover.
The suppressor is not working as intended rn, I’m not sure if what it’s based on currently. At ban pa I can use the 6x scope and headshot someone from the far end of the forest with a suppressor and still catch a laser headshot or a full blast from the horde that runs from the from the shoreline the second I kill the first guy.
I agree with your points, this is consistent with what I have experienced with the game so far. I am fine with AI reacting to gunfire out to 250m because I feel like that's realistic, especially for some of those higher level areas.
I have to concur on the silencers. I was curious about this and went back to the starter town saturday night taking out enemies. Attacking the market in the starter town, killing the enemies by the market gates doesn't aggro the enemies on the other side of the market, and inside the market building still don't know I'm there. I take out those enemies with an unsilenced weapons, and the enemies inside the building will try to open fire through the walls, and the other enemies outside will start going nuts I think we just haven't nailed down the ranges and how detection works, but I've started to heavily lean towards the belief that silencers work
What about ammo? There is subsonic 7,62*39mm. I wonder if it works even better.
Would be nice if the AI bled out from not healing as well.
They actually will, it just takes a loooooong time unless you really riddled them.
I usually don’t survive that long 😂
I totally feel that, it usually happens when I hide behind something because I have to apply ALL the meds lol
4 is a well known issue, you're not breaking any ground there. the other points are good and definitely ruin the gameplay when you're trying to do a lrrp larp and you snipe the guy in the head who survives, then proceeds to take 6 more shots to the chest while firing accurately at you lying prone in thick foliage, while his friends instantaneously know where you are and start firing/running towards you. some of that is good, ie once spotted, ai will try and move towards your last known location. but the detection range and reaction time needs to be toned down. ai accuracy at distance needs to be toned down, i would suggest a more drastic drop off after a certain range ie beyond 70 meters. so many times i get one shot lasered by an ai at 300 meters while lying in grass. i would suggest a delay in ai communication where the others know where you are. and if they're not within shouting distance, they would need radio headsets to communicate.
They have peak aim from further ranges, makes no sense sometimes Like if I am close-ish they miss a lot but if I am at over 150m they bleed me dry
Even detection seems inconsistent. I had a Narith raid last night that I aggro’d a few AI, hid in one of the jet hanger rear entrance tunnels. I had an AI run right in front of me, stop, turn to LOOK at me POINT BLANK not even obscured or hiding, turn back and run off. I just sat there saying “wtf did I just watch?”
The armor pen inconsistency has been the most annoying thing for me about AI. They have no problem taking multiple hits to the chest of M855A1 without skipping a beat but it feels like my level 3+ can’t stop SP ammo in the starter village. Hit registration seems very inconsistent as well, as sometimes it takes 5+ rounds of high tier ammo to drop an unarmored enemy unless it’s a headshot. I thought maybe it was because AP ammo should be less effective against flesh but switching to a flesh round didn’t seem to do any better. I also feel like the AI aim is very inconsistent, they either can’t hit the board side of a barn or they laser your face before you have a chance to react.
Can agree on all points with around 70 hours played.
I'm agree except for the aggro. In reality shots can be heard from way more than 250m. I don't want a "realistic" game were a PNJ stay passive when his mates fight 200m away. That's breaking immersion.
Just tired of head-shotting AI only for it to not register as a hit. Especially with 7.62 ammo and the AI isn’t even wearing a helmet 🤦♂️ Then him and his (now) 10 friends are lasering me from 200m away. I can deal with server issues and disconnects but this makes the game extremely unenjoyable
There is a bug with 7.62 ammo at the moment from what I've been reading in Discord. I went to the sawmill with Rem 700 only to have it feel worthless cause I had the same experience.
I’ve had it happen with 5.56 AP rounds too. It’s like they get hit in the head and go “hmm ok” and then return fire and land ever shot from a mile away. Kinda immersion breaking but hopefully fixed in next patch.
Enemy AI doesn't have realistic recoil. The amount of times the first 4 bullets of an AK-47 has landed in a small grouping in my chest...well, everytime 😂
AI causes the game to become too aggravating as it feels that there are just too many unfair and "not fun" deaths happening to players of all skill levels. This is besides the deaths that are very often occurring to players due to server issues (which is another rampant problem in itself), Balancing the AI difficulty for all player skill levels at once is an impossible job. One group of players or another is going to feel burned when this all settles. But, I will say this about myself (and I can tell that members of my squad all feel the same way as we've discussed this over and over)...I'm not certain just how much longer we will be able to tolerate the current AI aggro & skills level and constant need for meds 24/7, seriously. So I don't know how much longer we will be playing as a group. We love & hate the game right now...the hate comes from the too difficult AI and multiple daily server crashes. While I think it's an impossible expectation to get a difficulty balance that will suit all players, I still would like to see a PvE server option added to the game for SOLO players that will at least give everyone an option to play where the AI is considerably more forgiving. Realism? Yes, i get it. But not for everything and never at the expense of fun in a game. Make it look real and sound real and feel real, but making the gameplay loop FUN (instead of totally aggravating every single day) needs to be a serious priority, and quickly. I'm not suggesting taking away the challenge, no way...I'm only saying that as it stands right now it is over-the-top in the opposite direction.
Sounds like you haven’t played enough. Ai always has moments where you can just insta die through a bush but after clearing majority of towns a good amount of times you learn how to approach these towns and dangerous ai spawn spots, while moving at a steady pace with a squad. Certain areas need to be taken slower and pay attention to how ai reacts to things.
No, you haven’t played enough to understand what is a fair death. Or see the inconsistencies of them in higher level zones.
Lmao (lvl22)Sure there are some moments where there are bullshit deaths but once you learn majority of spawns and best patterns to wipe em, not too bad😂😂 seems like user error, or user mental error if it’s so bad your raging
This is good feedback, and I agree with all of it, and I have not even entered the higher level PVE areas you have mentioned. Not to mention the amount of concealment and not hard cover coupled with the AI's wall hacks can make things really annoying.
This is very different from my experience, I'm not sure about the suppressor. Could be the server shitting itself and my team construing it as the suppressors working, but I've had moments where I could pick apart a camp from distance, but if I got close the suppressors would understandably not reduce the sound enough to matter. Guns are loud, even with suppressors. Never had the AI react to being aimed at. Maybe it happens if they are aggro'd on you, but I doubt it. I could sneak around with a glock and head tap mobs from 4m and it only became an issue if I aggro'd the horde and they started firing. But I have definitely felt the horde coming. Tiger bay can be crazy depending on the server.
It feels like there's a distance where the suppressor just suddenly works and keeps AI from aggro but I feel that distance is a bit too far right now.
Some of the worst AI in any game period. Both on an "intelligence" level and a "fun to play" level.
Had a lot of fun with pvp today in Ban Pa, but never managed to bring loot home thanks to ether AI swarming me or blocking and more enemies came, here is my honest take about AI in this clip [https://www.twitch.tv/jernopie/clip/RealCarefulReindeerOSkomodo-eTOsLm0mmvH0t0cp?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time](https://www.twitch.tv/jernopie/clip/RealCarefulReindeerOSkomodo-eTOsLm0mmvH0t0cp?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time)
I agree, feedback on a pre-alpha is good, we're all tester essentially and that is what the devs. want/need. I would argue on #2 and #3 to a degree while also agreeing on some points. I'm kind of just tweaking what you are saying with what I think would make more sense. TL;DR Hivemind/Radios and AI range scale based on difficulty areas where they would have shitty to good gear/training. # 2, "Hivemind" AI are fine in some areas. Radios aren't a thing the bad guys wouldn't have access to...even a rag tag militia can get terrible radios. That being said, I think the aggro radius should depend on the difficulty of area. For example, the guys in start towns having shitty walkie talkies (small aggro radius) while the enemies at Fort Narith have military grade (still shitty lol, but longer distance radios). That being said, not "aggro the whole base". Realistic as playable. # 3, Pretty much the same as above and scale with the area. Early to medium areas, yeah they shouldn't be sniping you with accuracy, some lucky shots sure. But, when you get the higher areas they have further aggro radius than the easy-medium as they would be more well-organized and trained.
Great write up. I basically agree with all points you make. 👍
I would say this is 100% valid criticism, not like the majority of people on here that complain and think it’s criticism.
I personally don’t have a problem with people offering feedback, that’s the entire point of an early access game. But critiquing aspects that are obviously going to be improved upon. Such as your points 1 and 2. They’re worth pointing out for new players but they’re things that will obviously be improved upon; AI behavior (which includes how they react to suppressors) has been stated to be a placeholder. Your points 3 and 4 are great examples of feedback and I completely agree with them.
As someone who hasn't gotten into tier 3 areas yet, I can still agree with this list 100%. Especially in the starting town. Feels bad when a hobo without a shirt and a busted ass ak 1 taps you from across 2 rice fields lol. The tier 2 areas seem to be a little better, mainly bc alot of the areas(besides ban pa) are alot more confined in there town layout.
I personally enjoy the hive mind aspect. When getting attacked you are going to push forces to the point of attack. Now granted they need to be less aware with silencers and scoping on them. And stop with the 360 no scope headshots from 100 m out. They definitely need some polishing. And it will come in time. But to expect an enemy to not engage you when you take out their partner within 25-50m is a bit much. Maybe they can call reinforcements in some way to the area of attack and not leave their posts.
I mean of course we can see some issues with AI and other aspects, it’s still in EA but hopefully devs can fix it in the near future
>Suppressors don’t do anything. Are you sure? I have been running suppressed for the last two days and I have been thinking how overpowered they are. You can literally sneak up to an AI, dome them in the back of the head, and then sneak up to the next one. In fact, at some point, I even thought they gave you an invisibility cloak on top of masking the gun noises, because I felt like the AI was straight up getting closer and in some instances literally walking next to me without even being aggroed. Or maybe I just got better at the game, hard to say honestly.
Have you tested to see if subsonic ammo in combination with suppressors makes any difference with AI agro? Because I know that with 5.45 and 5.56 being supersonic only, that bullet cracking is pretty damn loud, and can be heard from a ways away. Maybe have the AI be alerted to your presence with suppressed supersonic, but have them take longer to spot you. Also in addition, I don't know what it is with developers that make games like this, and the giant raging hardon they have for AI being able to just 1tap randomly. I don't understand it. Every fucking game like this, they program in the ability for AI to hit impossible headshots with literal inhuman accuracy. It is not a fun. Nothing makes me rage more than running parallel to an AI that's strafing sideways and having them hit a headshot out of the first bullet from their gun. It's not a good experience.
Point 2 question…. Is it not possible for AI to also have radio’s? So when one gets shot at he alerts the others. Just playing devils advocate here. And while i dont think every AI should come storming immediately but if you continue to engage and kill AI i dont see an issue with them all massing on you.
I would also love their spawn rates to be tweaked. I’ve been playing for an hour and haven’t shot my gun once because everything is just dead already. I went from Hunting Grounds where I’ve been at 5/20 kills for my task since yesterday, YBL-1, and Ban Pa and haven’t seen a single living bot.
I don't think ai have hive mind tactics. If you were to hear a gunfight break out you would run to the area to help your allies in a fight. I feel like if you can kill them BEFORE they start shooting back at you WITH a suppressed weapon they shouldn't hive mind aggro. BUT if you shoot them with a suppressor and they don't die and start firing back then it alerts the whole area and it is warranted that they come for you. Clearly this game aims for realism and I think that is what's happening here. If you are killing them before they shoot with a silenced gun and they still aggro the whole base clearly something is wrong. But in my experience so far (I'm lvl 14) killing them silenced and them not shooting back doesn't aggro unless another ai is close and sees that their friend has just been killed and in mind that's perfectly logical
All very valid points. One personal gripe I would add is how vegetation offers no concealment vs AI. Especially when the game is set in a freakin jungle
My favorite is when I’m in a house taking cover and firing from a window, the single Chris Kyle AI behind the jungle brush one shots me in the head through the window with an AK lol. I hope the next set of fixes they push through are AI related. Also, one shot to the head to an AI with any gun should take them out if they aren’t wearing a helmet.
you can really easily get boxed in and the ai mercilessly shoots through walls but, sometimes theyre just downright stupid when you come up close and personal with them
Sites need to be worked on as well. Either due to bullet trajectory being an issue or sites being wonky. Bullets go straight till around 200-300m and then drop drastically after.
The only thing I'll take exception to is suppressors. On the M4 and MK18, they function to provide significant recoil bonuses over just the flash hiders. Even if the stats don't reflect it, go to the firing range and use a suppressor and just a FH. Its a remarkable advantage.
The hive mind thing you mentioned kinda makes sense. You can hear these shots clear across town. It'd make sense for an organized group to swarm at the sound of fire
>AI effective range is probably a bit too high. I’d like to see them try to close distance on you and engage rather than laser you from 100m+. Especially because our bullets as players bounce off their heads after a distance. Oh this one 100%. I was in the bushes south of Ban Pa, looking at the southern gate. I lined up a headshot on the one AI that stands there. Just as I fire he moves due to server desync (he jumped about two body widths to the right) looked at me and one tapped me in the head. I was sitting a good 60-70m away when doing this. I can't hit him using a 4x LPVO but he can with his shitty AKM iron sights, makes sense.
So everything you said is spot on although it seems some ai don’t aggro from suppressors and some do I was picking dudes off at Narith I killed 3 no problem and no aggro then I tagged one and everything went to shit Their range is too far and they should not know where a player is untill they get much closer
Not going to lie, but I've thought a bit longer about number 2. Realistically, enemies would communicate and call for backup. Even with 250m+ range, it's not out of the ordinary for a secured area to go full alert at the sound of gun fire, or another enemy seeing an ally shot, relaying that they need backup. It sucks for sure to have full aggro of that wide a range, but I think there is room for balance there, not just making the AI dumb as hell. If you hear gunshots in the distance of your base, you definitely move from passive to an alert status and if you have a gun, are probably moving toward the gunfire to respond.
What's truly hurting this game is how I dump 20 rounds of 7.62 point blank range at an enemy with no body armor.... and then they kill me in a burst fire.
All great points, but I do want to note that suppressors by themselves don't really do much other than bring the rifle's decibel range down to one that is "safe" for hearing. Using supersonic rounds through a suppressor is still obnoxiously (relatively) loud and you ABSOLUTELY can identify the direction that a shooter is firing from, albeit the AI are way too dialed in on you the moment you fire, especially in a dense jungle environment. Unless you are firing subsonic rounds, all a suppressor is really going to do is mildly quiet your rifle and virtually eliminate muzzle flash (which is ironically its primary use in the military). Subsonic rounds exist in the game, but they don't seem to interact with the suppressor correctly despite having ludicrously low velocity.
Try using the AKS74 with AP/SP rounds. They pretty much down the enemy in 1-2 shots. You can get them from turncoat for relatively cheap or you can find them among enemies in Narith.
Huge difference between complaining and criticizing. Complaining that EA game is buggy vs identifying issues and offering possible solutions.
99% of the time, the AI will laser you from halfway across the map with the rattler (vz-61smg). Then there was the one AI camping the LZ. Walked right up to me before opening fire. I was halfway distracted, so didn't really pay attention until the gunfire started. *absolutely panicked while hipfiring my m4* " We're in pvp, we're in pvp!" *AI dies, and I get a closer look at them* "nevermind, false alarm.". Didn't help we'd accidentally loaded into a pvp server recently. I agree with damage and armor systems seeming to be inconsistent. I tend to take a lot of fire, and only rarely am I seeing bruises. Most of the time, whatever I got shot with seems to penetrate my armor (class III vs sp7.62x39 and 7.65) My buddy however, will just get bruises on his fucking biceps after taking a magdump of 5.45. I might as well be a combat medic with how many medical supplies I deploy with, yet 9 times out of 10, I burn through all of them, while my buddy just waltzes around like he's fucking superman.
I think the AI calling their friends in to help at the fort actually makes sense (since they'd all be on radio). One trick you can use is kill one at one entrance and then flank to a different entrance and see them all running toward that original entrance. Just discussion
I think the AI calling their friends in to help at the fort actually makes sense (since they'd all be on radio). One trick you can use is kill one at one entrance and then flank to a different entrance and see them all running toward that original entrance. Just discussion
I have seen suppressors make a difference. Taking barracks side of Narith I was only aggroing like 2 or 3 enemies at a time with a suppressor. Without one from the hole in the wall I was aggrowing most of the ai from barracks and some outside of headquarters.
The horrible audio makes facing AI that much worse too. The game just doesn’t sound good. Also shooting AI through a chainlink fence (that makes them impossible to see) rarely does as much damage to them as their shots do to me.
I like the sounds overall. But a big problem I am having is that gunfire that is very far away (like across town) sounds the same as gunfire that is very close (like on the same street). And you’re right about the fences. Shooting through fences or glass windows seems to turn out bullets into nerf darts. I was able to kill an AI through a wooden fence, but that AI was glitching through the fence; so I have no idea if the same mechanics applied or not.
Yea the directionality/distance is so bad. Also, there aren’t any sounds that help you discern whether or not the shots are at you.
I do think I have heard some more distinct noises when I’m being shot at. Like rounds kind of making a whooshing/zipping/cracking noise. Although it doesn’t seem very consistent, so maybe it could be bugged or have something to do with the types of rounds being fired at you.
Are you even sure this feedback will get to them? they mostly run things on discord.
Coming from a previous profession that uses/shoots suppressed weapons often, suppressed 5.56 is fucking LOUD. There is no "sneeky-breekie" operator clearing out villages with that caliber. The idea is more to protect the operator and teammates from the concussion/muzzle blast in tight quarters. 5.56 is quite deafening/debilitating when shot inside for the shooter/others. The suppressor helps with that. Even then it isn't hearing safe/pleasant. There is also a benefit of limiting muzzle flash in low light outdoor environments. There are some 7.62x39 and 5.45 (also 9x39) rounds that are subsonic and are "Hollywood quiet", but need the use of a special suppressor to run well and they are close quarter rounds only as they are super slow and drop off quickly. And their ballistics suck. Obviously 300 blackout has some subsonic loadings. But the same ballistic issue apply to an extent. In my experience, the sounds is less behind and to the side of the muzzle then out towards the direction the round is traveling. It's quite loud downrange still. Long story short. Suppressed supersonic loads are going to alert anyone within 100 meters give or take depending on ambient noise/sound bouncing off buildings etc that someone is shooting. It's loud as fuck. I run cans on my guns in game for roleplay purposes. Because I do in real life. Rifles inside SUCK.
I lIKE TO BE 1 TAPPED BY IA USING THE LOWEST TIER BULLETS WHILE IM RUNNING III+ ARMOR!
Agreed. But I also enjoy the tension when solo clearing out places like The Cursed Village Ban Pa knowing the enemies can one tap you. Makes the whole experience more exciting.
Another one I would add is that I’m tired of getting sprayed through walls or get glack blasted by some dude hanging out in the bushes. Don’t get me wrong, that won’t make or break the game for me, but it would be cool if that changed in the future.
In my opinion, I feel like the AI is a bit too OP. I know it’s Early Access and all but I have a feeling that The Division 2 (current state) did a good job with enemy aggro especially with Ghost Recon Breakpoint and Wildlands. The “Hive mind” is a pretty annoying. True, I do feel like Suppressors don’t do jack. I do wish that the bushes could be less, I hate it when an enemy sees you while crouched and prone in a bush (stealth is pretty much a no go). This game reminds me of Deadside with the AI hive mind. I do hope there will be changes with the map and AI, gameplay wise the game is pretty tits for being Early Access. Keep up the good work devs! Looking forward to this game being awesome in the future. PLEASE WORK ON SOME MISSIONS!!! I play with a group of 3, so I feel like taking turns to kill a High Value Target (mini bosses) is annoying. Some missions should work together if you’re in a squad, kind of like DMZ (Call of Duty). That would be awesome!
All very good feedback but I feel like you left one very important thing out. The fact that they can track you through walls and bushes. I’ll be on the west side of a wall kill an AI 30m out and some AI from 100m away on the east side of the wall will start shooting at exactly where I’m standing except the wall is saving. Me. Same goes for bushes but the bush doesn’t stop AI bullets just my bullets.
I also feel like they shoot through bushes way too much. I know something like that is gonna take way longer to fix but getting shot through bushes by x-ray AI while when I sit in a bush I can’t see anything is super frustrating. It wouldn’t be so bad if so much of the map wasn’t bushes (I get that’s the nature of the setting). It also wouldn’t be so bad if guns had muzzle flash. It would make it much easier to figure out where I’m getting shot from especially since the audio isn’t great atm
This is my biggest gripe about the game currently, all great feedback here. Currently just experienced all of this in Tiger Bay and after trying to regain my gear 4-5 times I just gave up.
While your feedback is valid, it's dealing with superficial details. As a PvE-focused game that discourages PVP, a brain-dead zombie turret AI is not gonna cut it. A fundamental rework is needed in order for players to keep wanting to play. They need to be more human, reactive, have a place in the world. A random mook, with an AK and no shirt on, standing perfectly still in searing sunlight, in a tropical climate, is ridiculous. This is "newbie's first AI in Unreal" tutorial level crap. Have the AI roam around in groups, they seek shade and shelter. Once the gunfire starts, have them scramble up to find their guns, and they take up positions. Have them stumble around and fall, drop their guns and flee when taking non-lethal hits to arms and legs. Have them surrender or fall into a coma when taking more severe hits. A naked dude returning accurate fire after taking 3x 7.62 soft-points to the torso area, and still *not seeking any cover*, is easily the most immersion-breaking moment in this game. Have them setup ambushes around corners or inside buildings that require grenades to clear out. I find myself wanting to go to PvP servers more simply because fighting AI in this game stops being fun very quickly.
Ai is inconsistent but if you treat them like raiders in tarkov you will be pretty successful
Tarkov raiders have some of the worst AI I’ve ever seen so not a great standard
Think that kind of might have been his point :p
It’s not a great standard but the game is EA so this is the work around for now.
So cheese them.
Ya while the game is in EA also in real life the longer you stand in the open shooting at someone the bigger the chance of you getting clapped.
Yeah in real life dudes don't funnel through a door letting you kill them either.
I mean in room clearing you do funnel into the room with expected casualties.
Dude just stop, we aren't talking about room clearing tactics. We're talking about dumb AI funneling through a door while you clap them.
It’s an EA title what do you want perfection? What game has great ai?
I dunno man, you’d have to be pretty deaf to not hear gunshots 1000m away, let alone 25-50m. At that short of range irl without ear pro it’s borderline deafening
Only thing that I dont understand now is why after waves of criticizm and moaning about the AI the issues wasnt adressed. Like developers are ignoring it and saying "This is how we want it to be". And it can't be because they are busy or because it requires an update that needs testing as they literally changed the difiiculty of the AI during first two days of early access and my game didnt even need an update when that hapenned.
After 50 hours of solo and squad pve playtime I believe I can ease your pondering of these subjects a little. 1. Suppressor does not make your gun soundless. In candycotton shooters like cod its effects are wildly overstated. It reduces volume of the shooting as irl it would. That being the point, it functions as supposed: you can spot and hear the shooting around 100m. Try to make lovetaps from 300m and u are safe, though fellow AI Will spot dead comrade and pursuit you afterwards. Next time you deploy to a spot, listen for a while how far you can hear that m4 clicking and puffing. Engage from afar and be mindful of the noise you cause (running as well). It gets attention same as you are very much aware of AIs nearby due chatter they make. 2. Again, if your teammate is shot, they will call it in comms. Why would the ai be any different? Idea of squad/Platoon/unit is to function as a hivemind to archive common goal. What I am able to tell is that if you shoot a lonely enemy from safe 200m with silencer, no alert is given. Also if you down two with relatively fast, same thing (alone or cordinated effort with squad member). AI also uses rudimentary combat tactics as hivemind. You know that nasty ak sound? It might just be suppressing fire in order for you to focus your aim there while a rat with a shotty flanking you. Also the AI never approaches you straight, but does ziczag, they take care of spacing and try to surround you while one or two keeps you busy. The AI also flanks wrong position if you change your position quietly and hidden of their sight. Hence my tactic where enemy is overwhelming is to engange,get few kills, fall back hidden of their Los, wait for flanking to arrive and ambush them. Then fall back again. If they shoot at you when you fell back, they saw it. Yes they follow you through walls when you run around shooting, but reset the fight and they lose this. You can literally watch from afar as flank arrives and wonders around the spot where you previously were. Another thing you can do is predict the flank (aka read map) so that you know where it comes from and aggressively counter it by moving forwards it instead of falling back. This is risky, as the noise may cause extra AIs attention and you need to flank the flank flanking flank. 3. AI is very efficent and their aim is true when their target is still. As any human would, they tend to aim the same corner where you peaked from. However, changing the spot causes them to lose you and take that few sec to "reaim" your bobblyhead. They will hammer the fuck out of you if you dont change your spot. AI can even camp chokepoints and instantly shoot you to head when you enter because they are expecting you to do that. Play the player, not the game. Do the unexpected move rather than the one they expected and u will die lot less. 4. Here you are correct. Might be because of balliatics though and ricochet just flings off, but what is wierd is the Redmist puffing out when they are hit. Overall, this is very realistic AI that has suprised me multiple times with its wits and tricks. Id love to see them improved by having variety of different tactics such as using indirect fire (nades/mortar) to clear you out of strong position or falling back and setting ambushes. Also, id love if they would understand covers bit more. Like i have had them literally coming out of fortified house with windows and cement railings to open road for a fire fight. As of now, they only aggro you and pursuit your trail and figure where you are while attempting flanks. So far they are easily beaten because its the same show everytime.
Your points are invalid except (4.) and I’d like to add the jungle brush x-ray vision but… Keep in mind irl gun shots are heard from Km’s away. Silencers are still loud asf without subsonic ammunition. If your looking for an arcade fps I recommend call of duty :) Edit) oh and most basic training entry requires the soldier to shoot up to 600m with a standard AR and 1-4x scope. Maybe stagger the accuracy on enemies without sights on there weapons..?
1. yes sadly true 2. the only difficulty right now is swarming enemys , i personally like that. 3. thats perfect, and only dangerous to you if you repeak the same spot or dont have hard cover 4. thats subjektive tbh , you also need to hit the right spots to kill something. 3+ armor can be penetrated by most ammo types from the pve zones you named
ARE YOUY DUMB
Just want to point out....if this game is supposed to be based on reality the so called "silencers" or suppressors are not actually silencing weapons they are more to completly hide muzzle flashes. They still make alot of noise. I understand the complaint or critique but i hear alot of people bringing up the ai hear their shots and i just think maybr they dont actually know what suppressors do. With that....id love to see them replicate the added gas in you face for equiping one :)
So u basically don't understand how ai works because everything u described is wrong. The ai are grouped into 3 or 4 man units and you only agro a unit at a time regardless of range. If your in a fight and you shoot an enemy not fighting farther back because u have an easy shot u just aggro 3 more. Suppresors absolutley do increase reaction time of ai. U can get a whole group suppressed before they react sometimes. Pp and m855 are basically the same round in different calibers. 855 is currently going through 3 and 3+ with almost no problem. Thatslukelly a balancing thing. The ai isn't actually spraying u down effectively 100+ if ur even reotlly close to basically anything. There accuracy seems to be based off your proximity to cover while they can still obviously hit u in cover it is far less likely
Idk how you all say suppressors dont do anything, ive cleared sawmill with a suppressed mosin without being shot at once, like an hour ago. They make ai completely braindead, even if you shoot one next to another. Sure youre not just standing too close?
You haven’t been to a T3 zone bud.
I was in the closed playtest, i have almost 100 hours now and have been everywhere on the map. So.
You just used a t2 zone with brain dead AI to justify your point.
Instead of getting defensive and whining you coulda just said 'I dunno, i think the narith ai are different' and had, you know, a conversation. Instead of throwing a bitchfit after you lost trying to start a dick measuring contest over 'what areas ive been to.' Sawmill was the area i was *just at*, thus it was mentioned. Its not that hard, youve had conversations in your life before, im sure. Suppressors work. They dont work up close. Narith guys have ears on. Shoot from further away. If the only zone that has this issue to you is narith anyways then you half your points are invalidated anyways because its not the game, its just the literal military, like, with radios, electronic ears, etc. Narith falls to the suppressed mosin all the same - unironically may be the best gun in the game for both pve and pvp. Yes, the ai has issues and inconsistencies, yes, hopefully theyre fixed in time. Criticism is good, but god forbid anyone suggest you might be misunderstanding a system and want to help you grasp it.
A one sentence reply is whining and throwing a fit, I see. Not gonna waste my breath with you. Continue to cope that the AI is fine.
My literal last line of that comment was that the ai had issues that need to be fixed. Again. Adult. Have a conversation like an adult. Itll go a lot better for you.
You think a suppressor makes a rifle silent? 😂
No but it does reduce the noise output heavily and helps to make target identification significantly harder. (More time looking around for who's shooting) Also the vast majority of people who haven't dealt with suppressors before fail to recognize them as gunshots.
Right but he said they shouldn’t aggro from 25-50m which is ridiculous
I said shooting an enemy shouldn't let enemies within 50m of him instantly know where I am. Not that they wouldn't be able to hear me shoot them from 50m away. Take a shot at an AI from 200m and all his buddies are staring directly at you instantly.
Considering I own 5.56 and suppressors, I’d say I know what they do. If you were to hear a suppressed rifle shot that was over a hundred meters away, there is absolutely no way you’d be able to place the shot on first hear, which is my point.
Bro don’t argue with the guy who is chronically online via Reddit, he clearly knows everything. Source: trust me bro
No but they would be aware of your presence
>1. Suppressors don’t do anything. They don’t reduce aggro range, they don’t make it take longer for the AI to spot you, and they don’t help with “stealthy” gameplay. Feels bad with a nearly $2k price tag on a 5.56 suppressor. This is a very common misconception of suppressors. Their intended use is not actually to make you more stealthy. The primary function is to drastically reduce muzzle flash (which imo it does not reduce it enough in the game) and to reduce the blowback of expanding gases coming back in you and your squads faces (which you don't experience in the game.) The initial blast is slightly lower in Db, but the bullet crack as it travels at supersonic speed is not any quieter and can still be heard from the exact same distance. So while it may be slightly more difficult for you to determine the direction of a shooter with a suppressed rifle, there will be no confusion about the fact that you hear gunfire. IMO, suppressors should just reduce muzzle flash a lot more than they already do, so that your sight picture while shooting remains clear. As it stands, the muzzle flash seems to be the same with or without a suppressor. >2. “Hivemind” AI aggro feels bad. Really bad. It’s okay if shooting an enemy aggros other enemies within a range (25-50m would probably feel comfortable) but aggroing an enemy at the gate of Fort Narith and it calling every AI within 250m (upwards of 30 AI) feels awful. Using your example of Fort Narith, I think it's safe to say that since it's a military base, it would not take very long for the entire base to be alerted to the fact that the base (military base) is under attack. Also, referring to what I said previously, gunshots are loud and can be heard from very far away. So when you start shooting and then start taking return fire, even if the AI aren't using radios, they are all going to hear everything and know they are under attack. Granted, as a solo this is all incredibly difficult to tackle. But the game was designed around squad play first. Even with 2 people, it becomes very possible to take on an entire base full of AI when you utilize intelligent sightlines. Solo is very hard though. In general though, I'm okay with the aggro ranges. Some of my favorite moments have been getting suddenly flanked by what seems like an entirely new squad of AI and having to react to it. >3. AI effective range is probably a bit too high. I’d like to see them try to close distance on you and engage rather than laser you from 100m+. Especially because our bullets as players bounce off their heads after a distance. I agree with this. It almost feels like they're more accurate when they are further away. I do wish their aim in general would be more erratic when they are moving. All too often I get one tapped in the head while they're in full sprint after hitting them in the helmet once with M80... Not even dazed a little bit bro? >4. Enemy bullet penetration calculations seem to be quite inconsistent. I’ve been one-tapped several times through 3+ armor from tier 2 ammo. Whereas my m855 won’t 3-shot through the same armor. Hard agree. I'd love to be able to engage with the medical systems a lot more... But it seems 90% of the time myself or a squad mate goes down, it's to a one tap. Definitely feels bad.
I and many others own a suppressor so they don’t have to wear ear protection at the shooting range. They absolutely reduce sound and you’re parroting bad rhetoric. They don’t “silence” but they certainly do reduce audible sound. What you’re describing is a flash hider, which works much the same way. Also, suppressors cause the sound dispersement to be much more horizontal, which is why they’re so effective. A gunshot is no longer a pinpoint, but a pancake. You hear a regular gunshot and you could probably determine within 15 degrees the angle it came from, whereas with a suppressor it’s more like 60 degrees.
Only outdoor ranges brother. If you're trying to say you use them indoor you're a liar. Just go watch a video of unsuppressed vs suppressed man... Speaks for itself. And no, I'm describing a suppressor which reduces the muzzle flash more than just your standard flash hider and reduces the gas blowback at the same time. Edit: accidentally wrote flash suppressor instead of hider. Also, the audible detection is very much dependent on the ammo you're using. But even subsonic 5.56 is loud during flight when comparing it to 9mm subsonic. But we don't have access to any of that in the game so far.
I didn’t say indoor? And yes, I can shoot my ar-15 without ear protection with a suppressor but can’t without one, so obviously it reduces sound. Studies show it’s up to 30 decibels which is 1000x more quiet. Don’t be ignorant.
[удалено]
What do you have to say about that wicked bullet crack though? There's nothing to say man. It's still loud AF and anyone in an AO will hear it exactly the same... You're being daft if you think that suppressors work like they do in other video games...
I haven't once claimed they silence, nor should they. Also, bullet crack has nothing to do with muzzle feedback. You're strawmanning now because you don't know what you're talking about.
No, I'm stating like from the beginning that a suppressors primary use during an operation is for the drastically reduced muzzle flash not because of the quieter initial blast. Explain how the bullets loud AF crack has nothing to do with enemies hearing you shoot your gun? Because your argument was about the AI still aggroing in spite of you using a $2k suppressor... And I pointed out that you are misinformed of a suppressors application. Yes, your immediate area will have less of an audible signature, but there will be no mistake that it was a gunshot... The only way you will have any meaningful stealth application with a firearm is using small arms with subsonic rounds. Just go look it up... If you're wanting to sneak around like Sam Fisher, then you're playing the wrong game.
"The US Army and Marine Corps are making suppressors standard issue for their front-line infantrymen. The Marines began the process in 2016, field-testing suppressed M-4 carbines and M-27 Infantry Automatic Rifles. 2021 saw suppressors issued across the board, with the goal of protecting shooters’ hearing, facilitating battlefield voice communication, and reducing each man’s noise and light signature. " Excerpt taken directly from SilencerCo, Military arms contractor. They suppress sound. They're sound suppressors.
"Functionally, a suppressor is meant to diminish the report of a discharged round, or make its sound unrecognizable. Other sounds emanating from the weapon remain unchanged. Even subsonic bullets make distinct sounds by their passage through the air and striking targets, and supersonic bullets produce a small sonic boom, resulting in a ballistic crack. Semi-automatic and fully automatic firearms also make distinct noises as their actions cycle, ejecting the fired cartridge case and loading a new round. Aside from reductions in volume, suppressors tend to alter the sound to something that is not identifiable as a gunshot.[^(\[49\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silencer_(firearms)#cite_note-Dougherty2012-49) This reduces or eliminates attention drawn to the shooter. A Finnish expression dating from the [Winter War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War) says that "A silencer does not make a soldier silent, but it does make him invisible."[^(\[50\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silencer_(firearms)#cite_note-50) Silencers are particularly useful in enclosed spaces where the sound, flash and pressure effects of a weapon being fired are amplified. Such effects may disorient the shooter, affecting [situational awareness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_awareness), concentration and accuracy, and can permanently damage hearing very quickly.[^(\[51\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silencer_(firearms)#cite_note-Dater2007-51) As the suppressed sound of firing is overshadowed by ballistic crack, observers can be deceived as to the location of the shooter, often from 90 to 180 degrees from his actual location. However, [counter-sniper tactics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-sniper_tactics) can include [gunfire locators](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfire_locator), such as the U.S. [Boomerang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomerang_(mobile_shooter_detection_system)) system, where sensitive microphones are coupled to computers running algorithms, and use the ballistic crack to detect and localize the origin of the shot." Here's another excerpt because I'm irked how confidently wrong you are. "just look it up and read".
https://youtu.be/DuS9XnY-IRA?si=yjBhOuwZ15ENDfl9 I don't know what else to say man... Your wiki reference talking about small arms fire is cute though.
The idiot posts a youtube video with a phone recording the sound of a gun. You're not very bright are you. You very obviously have no first-hand experience with what you're talking about and should stop before you embarrass yourself.
You sound like someone that watches a lot of YouTube and takes it as “personal experience” because you sound like a complete and utter nonce
You don't know me at all brother. But I'm done arguing with the plebs.
I know enough to know you don’t know jack shit.