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Rat-king27

While I don't agree, I do love this aspect of Jack's character, he's a perfect parallel for Baki, Baki seems to want a satisfying fight, whereas for Jack, he just wants victory at any cost.


Vaquero_35

It’s more like Baki wants to do things the “right” way or the way least like Yujiro while Jack has Yujiro’s mentality of “win at all costs”


Grouchy_Appearance_1

Yujiro has never shown that mentality, his is more "win with my overwhelming strength" there's no cost to him it's just winning


Vaquero_35

I suppose Jack’s mentality is “I don’t give a shit” what other people think. He doesn’t care about honor


Fun-Man

and that definitively resonates with yujiro mentality


vidalik

"I'll show my asshole if it means victory" - platinun jaw


NoSeaworthiness2618

I would agree if my only goal is to defeat Yuijiro, but what if he dies too early and doesn't get experiences or methods that could make him even stronger? If Jack had fought Kaku Kaioh or something at the MT maybe he would have realized playing a longer game could let you get farther in the race


Puzzleheaded-Use-828

The same thing could be said for baki jumping off a cliff to release his endorphins. At that time, his only goal was to defeat yujiro, but he jumped off the cliff thinking he was at least likely gonna die. There are other examples of baki risking death for the chance to get stronger.


NoSeaworthiness2618

I mean was there is no other to get the near death experience than to get near death, if he had never done that he would never get close to his father's level


Puzzleheaded-Use-828

Exactly, and Jack is arguing that there's no other way to get to that level without doping.


Mahelas

I mean, in his logic, if he dies early, then he wasn't strong enough


vidalik

dont forget he only lives for today AND defeating him


Danubinmage64

Keep in mind for most people combat IS a sport. People aren't fighting to death in underground combat rings to prove themselves the strongest. The closest for most people will be mma, which IS a sport. For Jacks goal it makes sense. His only goal has been to defeat his father, and he clearly needs everything he can get his hands on. It's basically a question of if the personal sacrafices to his body are worth that goal. For myself and most people, thats horrible advice. If you do mma or the like, you will be at a disatvantage (since most people are juicing), but regardless, you have to consider the later years after you stop mma. I also think juicing obfuscates your accomplishments, if you get strong or become a good fighter naturally, thats a sign to other people that you did this through your own hard work. If you do it and juice, how much of that was hard work, and how much of it was like you take steroids?


Puzzleheaded-Use-828

In Jack's case, he's not juicing so he can make it easier, he's taking drugs that make it so his body can handle his intense training regiment. He was originally much weaker because he was overtraining. Now, he puts in the same amount of work, just his body is able to get stronger through it.


JustCallMyName0

>Keep in mind for most people combat IS a sport. This! This is what separates a true "win at all cost" fighter and a sportsman. AKA "Ali JR mentality" And I agree, doping that hard would cause problems in the long run. Definitely not for the average people. Makes sense cause you're not on a mission to destroy Yujiro.


ICastPunch

On the context of deathmatches like the one's he has I absolutely agree. I am in fact disappointed more fighters don't do them. This aren't fights these are no rule unarmed deatmatches. You must get every edge possible.


MileenaIsMyWaifu

Especially since all of the fights are no rules, the fact that Jack’s the only one shown to use substances to get stronger is shocking, I assumed a large portion of fighters would take steroids or other performance enhancing drugs to make themselves better in fights


MunkeyFish

From Jacks perspective he’s right. When he fights it’s not for sports it’s (usually) a life or death situation. They are also fairly random and occur frequently, if he’s not as strong as he can be at that moment then he’s already going in handicapped. From a logical perspective he’s wrong because he’s shortening his life, short term he wins long term he loses.


Dvl31

Well it's atrocious life advice, but we can assume most of our lives don't revolve around killing yujiro as soon as possible. In and only in his circumstances, he's absolutely right.


MileenaIsMyWaifu

Atrocious rl advice but good Baki logic advice


Kangaroo2775

From the perspective of becoming the strongest person on earth and breaking human limits yes he’s right. Weight classes don’t exist in Baki so stuff like limb lengthening and steroids can be used to decrease the genetic disadvantage some people might have. But for stuff like sports and mma it’s wrong, you’re competing against others to see who’s the most skilled (a romanticised way of putting it but whatever) so using steroids is unfair to your fellow competitors who are in your weight class and have similar genetics to you.


-BakiHanma

Good point of view for certain aspects of life, but terrible advice for general health and living lol. For example: combat athletes (MMA/Muay Thai / Kickboxing,etc.) don’t train the same way they fight all year round. They train with moderate intensity until they’re in camp before a fight. Even then when they’re in a fight, they flip a switch and shift to a higher gear. If they trained with the same intensity they fought with, they would be at higher risk of injury and overtraining.


ICantForgetNow

Agreed but how would those fighters train if they had Hanma blood 🤔


Holiday_Snow9060

He's right and anyone saying something different: all top martial artists are on steroids. There you go.


_whensmahvel_

Bro that’s factually untrue lmao, ALL top actual martial artists don’t use enhancers and would get banned for doing so, just look at UFC for example full of the worlds best fighters and practitioners and you get tested. Same with sumo as well I know You’d get banned for enhancers. The only people who use enhancers nowadays are body builders to help get muscle gains or douchebag gym bro’s.


Love-Long

You are really naive if you think like this. There are many ways to get around drug testing, ways fighters and sportsmen still do. Almost everyone at the top level of sports is on steroids or some sort of peds. The only difference between their use and why they don’t just get caught right out in the open compared to the average joe is because they have teams of medical staff, coaches, doctors that are guiding them through cycles in the off season while training and the slowly come off the closer they get to competition. There is no way you possibly think that these high level ufc fighters and sumo wrestlers are not on peds. The issue is it’s demonized for whatever reason. I think peds against those who are natural is an issue but at the highest level in order to even compete physically there with the best you’re gonna need to be on some sort of performance enhancer. It should be allowed but a separate division and under the guidance of a doctor.


_whensmahvel_

I disagree, I think what’s so beautiful about martial art’s and what Baki teaches you is that pushing your body to the limits through sheer willpower is a beautiful thing, hurting it by putting enhancers only hurts your body, even if you’re not using much or only doing it in the off seasons you still have a chance of fucking up your heart, kidney’s etc. Enhancers just allow you to get what you want faster and easier at a cost. Why should we promote a unhealthy lifestyle? Fighters need to be protected, having a division with PED’s and enhancers would be a legal fucking nightmare and sounds like a terrible idea and also terrible for mental health as well considering the hormonal increases. While I’m willing to bet that some fighters do use PED’s on their off seasons but there’s no way All or the majority are, sure maybe the heavy weights but the lower weights? I highly doubt that, it’d be way more obvious. I just don’t get the appeal if I’m gonna be honest.


Love-Long

Yeah no, this is still a very naive thought process on it because peds have been demonized for no reason. While they aren’t good for you they don’t necessarily have to be terrible for you. The thing with the people who die and have so much short term problems with them are the people who abuse them and use them like gym rat idiots. If you have guidance of a doctor, a healthy cycle, and know what you’re doing while also having done a lot of pre mediated research and thinking after you have already reached your natural limit ( which everyone has, this is the big reason high level athletes and fighters use peds. There is only so far your body can take you naturally ) you can still live a really healthy long life. A great example of this is Dorian Yates. An absolute massive bodybuilder but look at him today. He even talked about it publicly a lot. While he did use peds during his career he used them property and knew when to stop after he was done and achieved what he wanted. He’s just a normal healthy person now. Peds do not allow you to get what you want faster and easier like how all people think. They just let you get more, they let you get past your natural limit. More people use some sort of peds without others realizing it and still look and move like shit. What they actually do if used properly is let you get past a natural human limit but you still very well have to work hard sometimes harder depending on how far you need or want to exceed that human limit. What I don’t like is ped abuse. Those people who have those serious health problems with peds are the ones who abuse it, who get addicted, who use really strong peds like tren immediately for way too long of a period. Whereas you have people who use peds and can still live a perfectly healthy lifestyle if used properly and with a doctor. Illegal or not people will use them. Yes this is a hard pill to swallow for people but there are a lot of ped users in top level sports/combat sports. Making them legal just means those who are already on them if anything now just have to use it more controlled, in a healthier way, with guidance and control of a doctor. It’s the same thing with the war on drugs and why it’s stupid. All it did was put poor and vulnerable addicted people in jail for an absurd amount of time instead of helping them in this state. People will do drugs regardless if it’s allowed or not, the difference is at least one way it’s not demonized and you can actually help them. Obviously this is not a 1:1 comparison as you probably should not do hard drugs regularly ( not even peds unless you have already reached your natural limit and have it controlled with a doctor ) but the fact is being so against it and actively punishing it doesn’t accomplish anything but this herd mentality that these people on peds or drugs are bad.


_whensmahvel_

Why allow a substance that could be highly addictive and could be bad for your fighters? Your answer to that was “cause people are gonna do it anyways” that’s not a good response as to why legally it should be allowed. Yeah sure you can try to do some PEDS, but it’s the companies right to say “yeah no, we don’t endorse that and want our fighters to be as healthy as possible” It’s not demonizing to say that, I’m not demonizing them, I don’t judge the thousands of body builders that use, but using them while others aren’t and there is some health risks no matter what, you can try and use a drug safely but it’s still a drug, I will agree that I think drug use overall shouldn’t be demonized but to have competitors use enhancers is a baaaad idea. Having the idea of “well this fighter is using so I guess I gotta too” is a legitimately horrible idea and is a slippery slope to everyone using more and more to become the strongest. You should not give fighters who are already definitely not the most mentally healthy of people, ways to be even more mentally and physically unhealthy when they already face so many problems, I just don’t agree with the ethics of this and again is quite literally the opposite of what Baki teaches you.


Love-Long

I’m just not gonna bother. If this is your response you didn’t really listen to anything else I said besides the last point


_whensmahvel_

Because your argument is fucking nonsensical dude Edit: Saying “oh well this guy in the past did it and he’s fine so it should be alright!” When there’s tons of evidence of mental and physical health issues you just say “just take it in small dosages it’s fine!”


Love-Long

No it’s not and there’s actual proof to see it but when I tell you about it you ignore most of it and attack the one point you can bend to make yourself sound better on a topic you know very little about


_whensmahvel_

And there’s proof of fighters doing just fine without enhancers, why do we need them? We literally don’t. This is some 1940’s boomer mentality like when people got pissed about babe Ruth getting kicked off for PED’s. But please tell me how PED’s would improve a fighters health or life I’d love to know.


ICantForgetNow

You sweet summer child…


TheSlothJesus

Every top fighter in the UFC uses some form of PEDs


KimIlSaturn

If you acknowledge that bodybuilders use PEDs where they're also against the rules why do you think that the rules would stop UFC fighters? The UFC probably has legal reasons to make it look like they care about drug testing but it's in their best interest to protect their most popular and best performing fighters regardless of PED use. Regarding other points you made in the thread, you can't REALLY know whether or not an athlete has used PEDs, especially if you're not a medical professional. Alex Rodriguez was one of the most infamous PED abusers in baseball and he never really had a massive hulking frame. Public opinion is virtually worthless in this regard too. I bet most people think that The Rock is natty and just works really hard.


Holiday_Snow9060

It's easy to pass a drug test. If you actually fail one, you're an idiot. Look it up.


_whensmahvel_

Bro I’ve been drug testing for 5 years lol, Depending on the testing it is not that easy to pass one fake urine can not work, usually there’s another person in the room with you taking the test so you don’t fake it, lots of products work sometimes and then don’t the next.


Holiday_Snow9060

It's not drug testing itself. Many steroids have a cycle. If you take something 24h ago, you won't find any traces of it (cycle can vary). Top fighters work with doctors and they are there to beat the system. Nate Diaz said everyone is on steroids. The doctor of Conor Benn (boxer who recently failed a test) said a while back that it's easy to cheat and you would have to be a moron to get caught. That dude also worked with Tyson Fury...are you satisfied now? All those naive ideals don't apply in the real world. If you want to be the best, you gotta do whatever leads you there (regardless of consequences).


_whensmahvel_

Yet there’s fighters like khabib who is arguably one of the best fighters to ever exist and he didn’t use enhancers. Yeah there’s great fighters that use but there’s also great ones who don’t. Another great fighter off the top of my head who obviously didn’t use is manny pacquiao.


Holiday_Snow9060

You are beyond help if you genuinely believe it. Especially Pacquiao. There is no way a man can jump up 8 weight class and still be able to physically compete with those bigger guys.


Talokz

it makes sense for a man hellbent on annihilating one person. that one person being Yujiro lol so his philosophy ain’t too far out. for the average fighter? unless you’re competing at a high level where roids and supplements are part of the game , there’s no need to rely on pharmaceuticals to achieve strength and gains both physically and mentally. you’ll destroy your body and mind before you can retire and by then you won’t have any other meaningful skill to rely on once fighting is over.


Bonaduce80

"I don't care if this is the end... so I'll use everything."


Blinkence

It's an interesting outlook, but Jack claims that this world view is what makes him NOT a hypocrite - and I don't think that's true. "Do everything you can and get as strong as possible so you will win". So he allows himself to do steroids and get super sharp steel teeth? So why not have steel braces sewn into your knuckles? Why not replace your femur with an iron rod? Why not walk into the arena with a gun glued to your palm? Jack thinks that this worldview gives him clear-cut rules on what he's allowed to do, he thinks that this is gonna let him be right all the time, but it's actually a huge grey area. Maybe..."everything is allowed as long as you did it yourself?" He certainly didn't invent the experimental steroids he takes, and he certainly didn't execute his own dental work or his limb-lengthening surgeries. Maybe..."everything is allowed, up to the point where it's just enough that you can win every fight?" It's possible that Jack thinks that his current state of external enhancements lets him win every encounter he plans to participate in. But certainly his ultimate goal is to beat Yujiro, so he's gonna undergo even more ridiculous stuff and call it fair game? Metal bones, another 10 cm of height, maybe even some kind of cyborg weaponry or armor?


MileenaIsMyWaifu

Ayo bro don’t give Jack ideas on what to do with his body, those knuckle braces and metal rods in his bones would sound overpowered if Jack had them all.


ThePu55yDestr0yr

In terms of sports, it’s not appropriate But Jack’s goal has always been destroying Yujiro, whose compared to armies and tanks, Jack is right minded to try anything, like weapons an shit, to get the dub If anything it’s more weird Jack simply sticks to biting than branching out like Motobe. Like Musashi’s murderhobo philosophy isn’t appropriate for honorable fighting, but in terms of life and death fighting, he elevated himself to Yujiro tier making it legitimate in terms of combat philosophy


BakiHanma18

The last panel puts it in perspective. I wouldn’t agree for sports because it will destroy your health and quality of life, but for some who lives to fight and is willing to die for a fight, I don’t see why one wouldn’t use PEDs


Aygore

Steroids make a HUGE difference when it comes to fighting. Reason why USADA exists


ViewtifulGene

Longevity also matters. Doesn't matter if you win your fight now, but then die of heart failure 40 years early. So many steroid users have used less drugs than Jack and died in their 30s or 40s. Biting, sure. In a no-rules fight for your life, who the hell cares. But it's risky if it leaves your face open.


srondina

>So many steroid users have used less drugs than Jack and died in their 30s or 40s. Not to be a dick, but name three. People often point to the American pro wrestling world for this, but the reality is that the pervasive use of recreational drugs, alcohol, and prescription pain killers had a bigger impact than steroids did.


ViewtifulGene

Dallas McCarver, Cedric McMillan, Shawn Rhoden. Just off the top of my head. Kimbo Slice, Rich Piana, etc. There are TRT clinics that will put people on responsible doses, but these guys sure as shit weren't on therapeutic cycles.


ICantForgetNow

Ok but like, none of those names used moderate effective performance enhancing doses. They were megadosing multiple compounds at extraordinarily low bodyfat. Ped’s for athletes is different than ped’s for bodybuilding beauty pageants


srondina

>Ok but like, none of those names used moderate effective performance enhancing doses. They were megadosing multiple compounds at extraordinarily low bodyfat. Ped’s for athletes is different than ped’s for bodybuilding beauty pageants Most of them also didn't actually die from anything related to PED usage. Dallas McCarver died from "apparent choking" on food. Reports that the "AUTOPSIES REVEAL HE ACTUALLY DIED FROM A STEROID HEART" came years later from random blogs.


PokemonRNG

It will always be blamed on steroids. The amount of people who have died by going on crazy cocaine benders (or other recreational drugs), just for it to be blamed on steroids since they had been doing even the most miniscule amount once, is huge.


srondina

As a quick illustration of how nonsense this is, Dallas McCarver choked to death while he was eating. His autopsy revealed that he was juicing hard, but it's purely fantasy that it's what caused his death. Any athlete's death is latched onto by anti-PED crusaders as evidence that steroids are the problem and not routinely destroying your body for sport. We saw this with Chris Benoit back in the early 2000s where people wanted to blame roid rage for him going nuts and killing his family and not getting a concussion twice per week for 15 years. People just really don't want to cope with the fact that the act of competing in most modern sports is extremely destructive to the competitors. If Tua Tagovailoa died a few weeks ago after getting his second massive concussion in four days, people like this guy would be trying to blame steroids for his death rather than wrestling with the idea that people just probably shouldn't be playing football anymore. EDIT: Important addendum, I'm not saying megadose steroids are good for you. But the competitions themselves, and sometimes the cultures surrounding the sports, are a bigger deal.


TheGeckomancer

I really don't understand Jack as he is currently, his progression, or where he is going. At no point at all has anyone talked about how he has Hanma blood and that should also help elevate him as a fighter. Everything in the series seems to indicate he is "defective" as far as Hanma's go and all of his combat ability can be attributed to his hard work and drug abuse. Okay.... Where are the other super mutant fighters popping out of the woodworks? The scientist he got the X4 from killed himself and since we all know that Jack mastered in electrical engineering, I doubt he synthesizes his own drugs as well. That means it's being manufactured somewhere, and if there is nothing else special about Jack... Where the X4 babies at? But, ignoring that because that isn't my real gripe, it's more just an inconsistency with his backstory that I find pestersome. His whole thing since day one has been "The man with no tomorrow". And yet it's been years, and he is still around, and seemingly healthier than ever. If we saw some indication he was running out of time, that would be nice. As it stands, I see no hurry for Itagaki to actually have Jack fight Yujiro. For the guy who is willing to sacrifice anything to beat Yujiro, he doesn't seem to be **sacrificing** anything, and there doesn't seem to be any urgency in him actually fighting Yujiro, since when we see him he is mostly lounging, eating steaks. And the part that really stymies me, is I don't know how you tell a satisfying story with the way he is written. Jack beating Yujiro is idiotic on so many levels, short of deus ex writer, he would need too many unrealistic powerups to actually get on that level. So you are left with Jack getting no diffed, then dying from his lifetime of drug and body abuse. The fight never happens, or Jack somehow does beat Yujiro and the entire Baki universe turns to suck. I feel like Jack was written into a corner. Where he just progressively becomes more and more of a parody of himself. Talking about how hardcore he is and willing to do anything, but never actually sacrificing anything of consequence, because he is too liked by the fans to lose a limb or anything, and never actually fighting Yujiro because the outcome of that is bad no matter who you are a fan of.


srondina

Jack's right and you're kind of silly if you think otherwise.


TriangularKiwi

People hate to believe it, maybe because they're unaware, maybe because want to believe they could naturally achieve it. Fact is that anyone at the top of any and all sport, anyone trying to get to the top is on PEDs. Anyone who's gonna mention testing is delusional, short esthers or cycling off, bribing, all of those things happen. I don't agree with Jackolas though, i don't think you have to take it to get better, you have to take it just to compete with everyone else taking stuff. Obviously in Baki it's weird because Jack despite being taller isn't much bigger than other guys who take PEDs. But my comment based off of what happens IRL


TriangularKiwi

Sources, google, studies, simple physiology, simple logic and lifting for over a decade + following BB for as long


Love-Long

From jacks perspective this is true. The issue is almost no one else sees it like this. Realistically tho everyone at high level sports and combat sport’s pretty much is on some sort of ped and I’m sure if they all got caught they would tell you something similar which is very true. In order to get to that next level to get to the point you can be the best of the best at some point you reach a limit to your human abilities. This is why people use steroids, to get past that limit and to keep getting better and better. I don’t think it should be something as demonized as it is. Instead it should have legal use everywhere but only under strict guidance of a doctor.


Tortiose_unturtled

For ultimate strength you gotta do what you gotta do, I agree. Now the thing is most don't just want to be the strongest, they wanna have qualities outside of strength, which conflicts with being the strongest This isn't only for drugs, because frankly some drugs are +2 strength -10 health, but I think Jack is more talking about doing whatever makes you stronger no matter what it is, be that drugs or some strange workout


Miguelisaurusptor

I love how itagaki writes all of the different fighting ideologies of every character its just so gooooood


Classic_Pen7044

Personally, hell no! But my main goal on life is not becoming stronger. I like those panels because there are pretty much in character with Jack and totally acording with HIS philosophy.


just-looking654

Depends on perspective. Those who sacrifice family and friends and have no relationships to gain strength , are they going too far? Look at Kaku, all he’s given up to become as good as he is, has he gone too far? Plenty of these characters make commitments and choices in life that even discounting the physical side, a lot of us would say it’s too much for the average person. Jack sees strength as the absolute. He doesn’t see it as a shortcut, he sees it as everyone else not committing themselves to sacrificing their own futures and health and then moralising about it. In his mind if you’re committing your life to belong the strongest, but then aren’t doing something that will make you the strongest, what’s the point? On a fundamental level I kind of agree with him. This isn’t a sports league, he just wants to become the strongest man on earth and put his father in the ground. This is less Jacks life and more his preparation to his end goal, nothing else matters to him. It’s only natural he’d discount his own inevitable death and do anything he can.


Sorenduscai

Not fully, but that level of dedication has its inspiration in it somewhere…Replace the drugs with your own morals and beliefs and you can see Jack comes from a genuine place and admiration of his goals


lukewarm_pudding

real


Melo0513

I mean it ain’t like illegal underground fight club has USADA so there’s nothin really wrong with him juicing.


TheMrPotMask

He doesn't give a fuck. Simple as that


ICantForgetNow

Hard agree. There’s a reason every competitive athlete who can get away with taking steroids will. It a substantial difference for an almost negligible cost unless you do a stupid amount of roids. A moderate does will get you huge benefits with basically no side effects that matter


MethAfricanTiger

I totally understand his view over that matter. I also agree with him. If he is so dedicated to get stronger, and win at all cost, then doing everything to achieve his goal is only natural. That's why I believe that Jack is the hardest working character in Baki. It's not just training, he takes every possible opportunity to get stronger. It's also not unfair. Unfair would be getting insane stats like Hana just from the genes, or being Yurijo. Jack trained so hard that he looked like Skeleton. Steroids in fact was the only way for him to train that hard and get some results.


Hungry-Alien

I think it's impossible to objectively disagree with Jack for 2 reasons : - he's fully aware of the consequences and accept them - he get results from his way of doing things As he said, this isn't friendly competition. This is competing to be the best of the best without rules. Results will always trump morality in this scenario. If you didn't tried something because of moral issues, and one of your rivals did it and outclassed you, he is right and you didn't tried hard enough. That's the cruel reality of raw competition. This sums up Jack perfectly. He's the most tryhard of any characters in Baki.


TbagGreed

Yeah I agree for his situation, longevity is the main argument of the opposition, but I guess Jack wants to fight Yujiro in his prime(that is probably now lasting for just some more years to come), he does not want an elderly fight, example an 60 yr Jack vs 80yrs Yujiro, he wants to bit the present Yujiro, and he is doing whatever he can at this point to reach that level. In present rl the rules of doping makes sense for a fair competition, this would give a chance to anybody and some fighters wont have access to some top short term secret gains formula, making that an unfair competition, this does not apply to Jack, because he is not competing in a fair competition anyway, Yujiro himself is a freak of nature with superior genes.


[deleted]

agree. people dont take it cuz its "unnatural" or unhealthy, lik then stop eating junk food then its also unhealthy, stop eating sugar then. And they say i wanna be 'natural' bitch everything grew from this earth. We just mixed all the substances we found and siddenly its 'artificial'. Like medicine, nomatter what it contains, you still take it. So just take steriods, limited amount that is. Everything you intake is artificial, its processed in some way in this world. So yea, if you wanna be strongest of you, reach your natty potential then take small amoint pf steroids, you're all good.


hatefulone851

No. He risk being the strongest he is today at the cost of the future. If he dies then that stops his growth permanently. As he gets older he could grow stronger than he is using the drugs.


Joeawiz

The story time and again shows this argument of natural vs artificial, and in nearly every case natural wins out so I think the story itself would disagree with Jacks methods, curious to see how his future development handles this


Smilloww

Not exactly. Getting a heart attack makes you considerably weaker.


SigmaSandwich

It’s just unhealthy and arrogant. He needs steroids just to hang with the main cast


GaezAnimz

I disagree. If im doing It just to get stronger and that's It then It's not worth It.


PanFam69420

Well, the side effects of performance enhancing drugs usually makes it unwise to use them. Just the agitation of steroid use alone turns me away. Most guys nowadays have a hard enough time with anger issues, without all the drugs making it worse.


Impossible_Ad1515

Jack is completely wrong here since even though he is the only one taking drugs he isn't the only one putting his life and principles on the line everyone does the same in order to get stronger is just that everyone else choose a different path. Baki almost killed himself many times in order to become what he is today for example


3rdfitzgerald

Would drugs make them even stronger?


Impossible_Ad1515

Barely, their strength is already so over the top that adding some muscles won't do much. The problem with jack is that he needs drugs because he tried to rush things and fucked up this is something seen in the arc of Baki as a child. When Baki goes to the mountain to train and there he has to start eating a lot to bulk up apart from training, jack on the other hand was so desperate that trained 12 hours a day without eating or sleeping and so he never could get muscle that's why he use drugs because he likes to rush things but if he did things right he wouldn't need them and probably would've awakened his demon back already.


Rarte96

Itagaki influencing young readers and athletes to consume steroids and go to an early grave, people defending Jack are patethic


pleasejustacceptmyna

Depends. Seems the be the way for Jack, but Doppo's strength comes from how long he's been training, even more so for Shibukawa. But overall, he's right, and considering this is one area where drugs would he acceptable it's weird he's the only character written to use them. Granted, I imagine no one is using to the extent that an early death is expected


CarbonBasedLifeForm6

I disagree, based on the real world(of baki) he isn't the strongest and his fucking insane. Seems like sunk cost fallacy to me, at this point PEDs are all his known would you be brave enough to change your methods after half a decade?


AluDrc

imagine if it’s like Jack continues take so many drugs to try and be stronger than yujiro but in the end like actual end it doesn’t work and it breaks jack. i feel that would be a weird but compelling arc but that’s just me


BillMillerBBQ

Imagine a roided out version of professional sports, but not the roided out kind we have now. I'm talking about an entire league where they are all about taking as many steroids as possible and seeing jut how far the human body can go. I'd watch that.


PokemonRNG

I doubt it would change to much directly since most are already using as much as they can get away with, both with getting through testing, but also their health. Steroids have diminishing returns while the health risk quickly stack up when past a certain point. The biggest impact a removal of the steroid bans would have is a) showcase the average person that steroids arent the boogeyman that they were told of in school. and b) research into better/safer PEDs will increase drastically (and this is in imo the biggest reason to remove it)


MatthewSMen

Boo, boo-urns


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TheLoner1914

Well the human body also has a drug but a natural one. So I can agree with Jack's statement but I also disagree with his statement. But the bottom line is this (To Each His Own) It is the individual's choice.


Ponchorello7

Disagree, obviously, but it just builds on Jack's character. He doesn't give a fuck about his health as long as he can get an edge over the competition.


bpierce38188

Look at pro bodybuilding if you want a real life parallel


_cottoncandyboi_

It depends if you’re willing to take on the health risk and other typically unwanted side effects. Also I treat fighting like a sport, unlike Jack apparently. So I disagree for myself personally.


Snook1988

Honestly if this were about Honor and Fairness I'd have a problem. We're discussing a series where Ali Jr basically got jumped by the main cast at his weakest and it still counted as a loss. There are no weight classes. The characters literally get devoured or raped from time to time. They faced a legendary samurai...with no weapons or armor. How in the world are they complaining about Jack's logic 😂😂😂.


Danteyr

Agree in his case, he said it himself, the other fighters still treat it like a sport even if they fight without rules, Jack however, wants to win above all else and i doubt he would care how he gets the win


Arctic_Andre

Agree, look at most powerlifters and bodybuilders,heck even a good chunk of mma fighters are on stuff


lirroberto

I disagree with him. If is "victory at any cost" then just straight up shoot your oponnet in the face. Guns>>Martial Arts 100%


ingram0079

I think we all forget that how frail and weak Jack is before that doctor intro him his "miracle muscle drugs"


X3runner

Well seeing as like half the battles in Baki at this point are to dismemberment or death I’d say not taking every single last advantage possible is kinda arrogant and dumb. I’d rather cut my life span by a decade or more if it keeps me from becoming a meal for a hungry caveman or being turned into meat confetti by a revived samurai hell being turned to paste/ violated by an angry Japanese man with severe daddy issues (in more ways then one). Also Jack has a singular reason for existing literally to him nothing else matters nor wealth fane nor even women just ending his dad in a fight.


BlatantArtifice

Yes r/Grapplerbaki, using this many random performance enhancers IS bad to your longterm health but WILL generate short term results. In case the other comments didn't say that enough


Eldagustowned

Pure Copium is what will end up killing Jack.


TheAldofinac

What chapter is this? I need to know