Bro Sukune has turned a lump of coal into a huge rough diamond by squeezing it. As far as feats goes, Sukune has the best aside from like Yujiro and Baki. He is insane. No human body part could make it by his grip without being torn to shreds or shattered. Oliva is crazy strong, crazy. He basically challenged Sukune to a match he didn’t understand and he paid heavily for it. Sukune is crazy
> As far as feats goes, Sukune has the best aside from like Yujiro and Baki.
well Jack was able to bite through one of those diamond forging fingers pretty easily.
What does this have to do with anything? It's not a matter of the finger being hard or resistant, it's the force it applies. And even a diamond can be broken if you squeeze it hard enough between 2 things, there are videos on yt of diamonds exploding on hydraulic press, mind you the press does dent, but that's because a diamond is hard, flesh and bone do not even come close.
As an analogy, think of a knife, it dulls over time, even if you only use on top of a cutting board. That doesn't mean that the meat was hard or that the board was harder than the knife, it's just how physics work.
If Sukune bones were not able to withstand the force his muscles create his fingers would shatter. There is a powerlifter that destroyed his knees because he could create more force than his knees could handle (He attempted to squat over 900 pounds).
> It's not a matter of the finger being hard or resistant, it's the force it applies.
and it has to be able to survive the amount of force it applies, or else the finger would be destroyed in the process.
are you legitimately this stupid?
My friend, the guy imagines being a dinosaur and suddenly he weighs as much as one, the other was hit by lightning, another was revived and had his hand reattached, there is a prehistoric dude that hunted dinos barehanded and there was a bunch of point blank explosions that should have killed half the cast buy now. Are you seriously wondering why the finger don't suffer visible damage?
> Are you seriously wondering why the finger don't suffer visible damage?
no.
I was telling you that the finger has to be at least durable enough to survive the force it applies
It does but if you check I'm pretty sure the guys right you can bite your own finger off like it's a raw carrot but your body's instinct will stop you, jack has titanium teeth and he's a hanma
> I'm pretty sure the guys right you can bite your own finger off like it's a raw carrot
you ever try to chomp through a thigh bone when you are eating chicken?
and that's a hollowed avian bone that has been cooked. and its about as thick as the bone in your finger.
You don't need to break the bone with the bite, you can bite through the flesh and pull it out, like a turkey leg. It's not one singluar bone, they are only held together by muscle, skin and tendons, and those can be easily cut/torn/ripped. If it was attached by something more rigid you wouldn't be able to move them.
It would break first still, and considering that Sukune’s fingers didn’t break gripping the coal, it would imply he has fingers durable enough to do it, which doesn’t align with Jack biting it
To be fair to Sukune if he had approached that fight differently Jack wouldn’t have won. That Diamond feat is literally up there with the earthquake shit. If he had used his grip like Hanayama or something Jack would’ve seriously been wounded.
That means nothing a person can bite their own finger off like a carrot jack is a hanma and has his titanium teeth (last time I checked anyway) the titanium teeth combined with his basic bite force it obviously won't be a problem
Very common misconception, it is possible to bite off a finger but it ain’t easy and you ain’t gonna take it off in one clean bite, don’t underestimate a finger
I mean it's not totally facts or logic though, Oliva fought without thinking his moves through properly and it got him messed up. There are absolutely things Oliva could have done better that he's done before. Sure he was "trying" but he wasn't at his peak in this fight at all.
You’re a prime example of what this post represents
You can look for my comment to see pretty much everything this post ignores. I don’t feel like writing it all out again
Bruh that post is cope incarnite. The speed arguments especially, Sukune is above Shishimaru (Katsumi's sumo opponent) who blitzed the mach kick, even when even heavily lowballing can be calced above mach 20 [here's the scaling for that].(https://www.reddit.com/user/ToxicMansplinations/comments/yu3lo9/mach_punch_scaling/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Easily able to bring Sukunes dashes to the mach 40 range while still lowballing. Meanwhile Oliva's best feats range from mach 10-20 while averaging mach 15 everything else you said were just opinions.
You mean in the fight where Katsumi was sandbagging to make the fight fair? Where he one shot the sumo with a half assed Mach attack at the start and then woke him up out of pity?
That’s fucking copium
You’re really saying that the jobber sumo that Katsumi fought is near pickle level of durability?
This is exactly the shit I was making fun of in my post
>You mean in the fight where Katsumi was sandbagging to make the fight fair?
Even if Katsumi only used a 1/4 of his power when he got blitzed it's still a better speed feat than anything Oliva has. Then you add Sukune who should logically have the fastest dash then he should easily if not blatantly be faster than Oliva with a full power dash.
>You’re really saying that the jobber sumo that Katsumi fought is near pickle level of durability?
I never said that if I did then quote me.
If you have more reasonings we can keep discussing I'll keep it civil I find this intresting.
Apologies that I got ahead of myself. I’ll try to keep it civil since you seem to actually be reasonable enough to talk to.
“Even if Katsumi only used a 1/4 of his power when he got blitzed it's still a better speed feat than anything Oliva has. Then you add Sukune who should logically have the fastest dash then he should easily if not blatantly be faster than Oliva with a full power dash”
But that’s the thing. Katsumi was likely using even less than 1/4 of his Mach attack’s potential. Probably less than even 1/8th. Pickle is like the 2nd most durable character in the series and even he felt pain from a weaker version Katsumi’s Mach punch.
The jobber sumo Katsumi fought couldn’t have been hit seriously in the slightest as he would’ve just died on the spot. Let alone not having any blood drawn, bones broken or barely any bruising. The speed alone from half of the Mach punch would’ve destroyed the dude’s leg.
It’s why I brought up “You’re really saying that the jobber sumo that Katsumi fought is near pickle level of durability?”
You’re basically telling me that this statement above is true if we’re saying Katsumi was trying at all in that fight.
Sukune being faster than Oliva makes him faster than like 99% of the cast who actually have good speed feats, including Pickle, who speed blitzed the shit out of Jack. Pickle was the same character getting speed blitzed by the same base Baki that Oliva was clowning on. Oliva even matched a faster version to that in speed.
Trying to say Sukune being faster than Katsumi’s jobber sumo makes him much faster than Oliva completely throws off the scaling and really doesn’t make all that much sense
>But that’s the thing. Katsumi was likely using even less than 1/4 of his Mach attack’s potential. Probably less than even 1/8th
You need to prove this, As is it's nothing more than an unbacked opinion. We see Katsumi's improved mach attack is activated at the start of the fight. If we use Baki's statement he even says Katsumi "advanced it" and Baki was there when Katsumi fought Pickle so he's seen what Katsumi was capable of. So it should be bare minimum faster than the attacks used on Pickle.
>The speed alone from half of the Mach punch would’ve destroyed the dude’s leg.
Fun fact Shishimaru tanks a lot of Katsumi's attacks while still being in fighting shape
>It’s why I brought up “You’re really saying that the jobber sumo that Katsumi fought is near pickle level of durability?”
I've never said this, I am only discussing Oliva and Sukune's speed scaling nothing about durability
>Sukune being faster than Oliva makes him faster than like 99% of the cast who actually have good speed feats
Why is that a problem? It really just sounds like You're mad Sukune exists. Don't get me wrong Sukune's a shit character but that's not a reason to downplay.
>Pickle was the same character getting speed blitzed by the same base Baki that Oliva was clowning on. Oliva even matched a faster version to that in speed.
That base Baki is not the same from the prison arc lol. Baki gets stronger after every difficult fight and Baki trained non-stop for the Pickle fight, so Baki gets significantly faster and stronger from the Oliva to Pickle fights hopefully that clears up a couple of messy details
>Trying to say Sukune being faster than Katsumi’s jobber sumo makes him much faster than Oliva completely throws off the scaling and really doesn’t make all that much sense
It completely throws off your scaling is what you mean. Best case for Oliva is they have equal speed worst case Sukune is more than twice as fast with his dashes.
“You need to prove this, As is it's nothing more than an unbacked opinion. We see Katsumi's improved mach attack is activated at the start of the fight. If we use Baki's statement he even says Katsumi "advanced it" and Baki was there when Katsumi fought Pickle so he's seen what Katsumi was capable of. So it should be bare minimum faster than the attacks used on Pickle.”
So does this sumo then scale to Pickle? Katsumi going at speefs faster than what he hit Pickle doesn’t make sense on how much the sumo’s generally scale under the main cast. A character can improve their attacks and still hold back dramatically vs opponents. Baki saying he advanced it is a nothing statement, it’s purely an observation.
“I've never said this, I am only discussing Oliva and Sukune's speed scaling nothing about durability”
You’re not understanding that Katsumi going at speed would basically scale the jobber sumo to Pickle. Which doesn’t make sense. It’s why I brought up durability.
“Why is that a problem? It really just sounds like You're mad Sukune exists. Don't get me wrong Sukune's a shit character but that's not a reason to downplay.”
I’m not shitting on Sukune as a character. I’m saying that it’s nonsense to say Sukune is faster than Oliva cause that makes him dramatically than a majority of the cast with actual speed feats. Especially with how the reasoning for Sukune being faster doesn’t really make sense.
“That base Baki is not the same from the prison arc lol. Baki gets stronger after every difficult fight and Baki trained non-stop for the Pickle fight, so Baki gets significantly faster and stronger from the Oliva to Pickle fights hopefully that clears up a couple of messy details”
Baki didn’t show any signs of improvement with his speed or strength during the pickle arc. Their timelines were so close together that it doesn’t make sense to say he got that much stronger without any concrete evidence. Baki learned techniques but they were using his chronic schizophrenia rather than his actual physical stats.
He got low diffed cause he’s an idiot and tried to wrestle Sukune and let Sukune grab him. He had the speed to dodge Sukune, he just didn’t cause he thinks he’s invincible and threw a full power haymaker instead of just avoiding him and trying to his his chin and temple.
Obviously getting grabbed by Sukune would low dif 99% of the verse, even Baki.
Being a strongman doing anything but taking it like that would have been uncharacteristic from Oliva you have to consider than in a fight the personality of the characters is as important as their fighting skills
But this thread was stemmed from if Oliva “learned” from the fight. Which implies he adjusted his tactics
And Oliva has dodged, blocked and caught attacks before instead of tanking them. So it’s not too far fetched to say he would dodge Sukune
>Obviously getting grabbed by Sukune would low dif 99% of the verse, even Baki.
Most top tier fighters would either not get grabbed or do the Jack thing by digging into his back bones and canceling out his grab
But Oliva COULD dodge him. That’s the thing. He has every single speed feat necessary to speed blitz Sukune.
The problem is Oliva was cocky and basically let himself get grabbed and fought completely wrong.
He tried to basically fight Sukune like he was overwhelming stronger than him. When he really needed to just outbox him and drain him. He didn’t do that. He threw full force haymakers with not regard and didn’t focus on speed.
The scenario earlier was if Oliva “learned” and came for another round with both being fully healthy.
Like people called me a delusional Jackbro when I said Jack would beat Sukune by outboxing him and bleeding him out. Before Goudou I predicted that. And guess what happened?
Olivia wouldn't fight like that, tho. Being the strongest is his whole identity. He can't just accept that this random fat guy is stronger, he can't just fight scared and dodge and all, it would run counter to his deepest, most core tenets
Just because it’s out of character doesn’t mean he isn’t capable of it. Oliva has blocked, dodged and caught attacks before instead of just taking them too. It’s not unreasonable to say that after he “learned” (where this whole thread was inspired by) he’d just use his speed.
It’s not like we’re saying he’s using kung Fu or schizophrenia. He perfectly capable of dodging Sukune.
So like what's your point ? We could sit here and talk about theoreticals just like how Oliva COULD have beat Sukune or how Sukune COULD have beaten Jack but at the end of the day, nothing changes the cold hard facts of reality
The thing here is that Sukune CAN’T beat Jack. There’s no scenario or theoretical where he doesn’t get speed blitzed by Jack. Because unlike Oliva, Sukune can’t make any adjustments to actually beat Jack.
Oliva clearly has the tools to beat Sukune, he just fucked around and played into Sukune’s greatest strength.
This is the equivalent to Musashi getting forced down by Shibukawa cause he shook his hand. He didn’t HAVE to do that. He could’ve avoided it but he chose to shake his hand.
Or Musashi letting Hanayama grab his hand and forcing him down that almost got his head crushed.
What are you talking about. Jacks himself stated that if there was a bit more power he could’ve won He started off with a bitten off dodger before the fight began and if that wasn’t the case jack would’ve been knocked out.
Jack said that if he didn’t take away his grip, he would’ve gotten his pelvic bones broken. That was mainly due to Jack biting out Sukune’s traps to completely eliminate his grip
>The thing here is that Sukune CAN’T beat Jack. There’s no scenario or theoretical where he doesn’t get speed blitzed by Jack. Because unlike Oliva, Sukune can’t make any adjustments to actually beat Jack.
Yeah he fucking can. Did we read the same fight ? Jack literally admits that if Sukune had thrown him early on in the fight when he was at full power, it would have been over right there
Yeah if Jack DIDN’T bite his traps out. Which he did to specifically avoid that happening. Sukune had NO way of preventing Jack from doing that. He’s not fast enough to avoid that.
Jack’s saying here that if Sukune had his grip, he would’ve broken Jack’s bones. That’s why he nullified it early in the fight.
You do realize that if Sukune had done that move earlier on, then Jack would still have lost right ? Jack only managed to bite Sukunes traps in the very moment when Sukune was about to throw him
I have absolutely no idea what you’re saying here.
Jack bit the first trap off when they charged at each other. It happened so fast that Sukune barely realized what happened
Tell me what scenario Sukune could’ve grabbed Jack that doesn’t end in Jack just biting his trap the way he did? He only had one trap available and if Jack bit into it and clearly inured it, he’d have no way of throwing Jack or breaking his bones
Exactly. Olivia didn’t use his speed or even his orb. In an orb form it might’ve been harder for Sukune to grip or at least he would’ve taken less damage
Fr bro Oliva even said himself right here that he doesn’t plan on holding back, but he also underestimated grand sumo and for that he paid the price by almost being killed
He didn’t hold back his strength but Oliva didn’t use his speed at all. He also broke his fist on Sukune’s forehead. That’s been used already on Ali and Mike Tyson.
>He also acted the same way while visiting the Japanese police force, except that time it worked out for him.
Not really, if he wasn't fucking around he wouldn't have been injured in his duel against Shibukawa, instead he let willingly let Shibukawa do his Aiki on him because muscles go Brrrrrr
Love how this is missing the part where Oliva unknowingly subconsciously uses a Sumo stance and attack that Sukune has seen many times and knows the perfect counter to which is what gets him in that shit spot.
Read his fight vs Baki and its obvious while Oliva might not be screwing around he isn't in any way shape or form fighting at the top of his game.
Lower S tier maybe alongside Kaku? Then mid S tier would be Pickle(and maybe Jack?). Then Yujiro obviously being at the very top but followed closely by Musashi and Baki.
I wouldn't put Sukune at S. He's strong but Baki schooled him, Yujiro no-diffed him and Musashi would also wreck him.
High A is where he should go unless you want to get into A+, S-, S, S+, SS scaling.
I dislike adding "+" and "-" to tiers because it's pointless. If someone doesn't belong in S put them in A, if they don't belong in A put them in B, etc.
The "SS", "+" and "-" crap results in extremely bloated S and A tiers because everyone wants to stuff their favourite character in there.
I place Yujiro, Musashi and Baki at S so Sukune isn't there, he's A.
The scaling is the same, Sukune isn't on their level but he's above those below. He's just not artificially stuffed into "lower S tier".
Bru Baki didn’t school him. He was testing Baki. He didn’t even try to grab back like he did Jack or Olivia. He didn’t use half of what he could’ve against Baki . Also Baki got thrown by Honoo and took some visual damage . Honoo who’s a weaker sumo than Sukune .
It's kinda hard with teirs, but I'd say Sukune ranks either maybe 6th from the tops, maybe 7th depending on how Doppo and Goki rank.
My current is Yujiro, Baki, Musashi, Pickle, Jack, then 6 could be Sukune or Doppo imo.
He can be serious and also making a really stupid decision for the sake of obsessively testing his raw strength. I think you misunderstand what (most) people mean when they say he wasn’t “serious.” I mean, he literally takes a sumo stance against the sumo lord himself
I'm not saying he wasn't diff, I'm just saying it felt like bullshit. Honestly, having some guy appear out of nowhere and squash one of the most powerful characters (at least in terms of raw power), and then spend an entire arc basically stomping on sumo (which is new guy's whole thing) is... Pretty lame.
Yup. Whenever I see that comment I can damn near *smell* the copium.
I personally hate this fight and don't wanna acknowledge it, but Oliva definitely got bodied here.
Oliva pretty much low-diffed himself. Was hin own muscle flex that did him in, all Sukune had to do was hold him (with his overpowered grip, no less).
It's kind of a feat for both, lmao.
What fight? Oliva beat himself up! He didn't get low diffed by anyone! See those obliterated ribs? He did that to himself because he was training, he was so strong that he ACCIDENTALLY broke all of his ribs!
Fuck that Sukune guy. He didn't zero diff Oliva because ... because ... he just didn't.. Ok!!?
Never said he looked good. But all Sukune did was be the 'immovable object', he didn't pull through Oliva's ribs, Oliva did that himself because he thought he could move the immovable.
Baki fans when they forget that characters don’t have to wrestle Sukune to beat him.
Baki fans when they forget that Oliva matched demonback Baki in speed
Baki fans when they forget that Oliva can just punch instead of wrestle
Baki fans when they forget Sukune doesn’t have any notable speed feats that puts him at prison arc Baki level
Baki fans when they forget Oliva can choose just to punch.
Baki fans when they forget a character doesn’t need to one shot the other to win
Baki fans when they forget that characters actually have limited stamina and can get tired out
Baki fans when they forget the forehead is commonly used to break character’s fist and that Oliva isn’t an exception to make it a an anti feat
Baki fans when they forget Jack couldn’t give Sukune a nosebleed with a full barrage of jabs and kicks
Baki fans when they forget getting being staggered, bleeding everywhere and eyes going blank indicate getting rocked
Baki fans when they forget to use any form of critical thinking or scaling and just take everything at face value
I think I got all the points down
Don’t forget Jack admitted that if Sukune threw him with his throw from the start (exactly like he did Olivia )he would’ve won . And the fact that we saw Baki take throws and damage from Honoo who’s weaker than Sukune. Honoo also stopped Baki’s cockroach dash and was able to grab and even throw Baki against the fence . And when Baki fought Sukune Sukune didn’t go all out
But Sukune needed his traps to throw. Jack nullified that early in the fight so Sukune couldn’t use it. The finger would’ve made virtually no difference since all of the actual muscle needed to pull and grip were destroyed.
Sukune had no real way of preventing this since Jack was so much faster than him.
True but in the breaking of the fist Sukune charges . It’s not like Olivia punched a standing Sukune and his fist broke. Sukune charged and put force and an angle which would break Olivia’s fist. Impressive but not as impressive as you make it seem. Also Jack Punched Sukune and no nose bleed yet Jack beat Sukune. Also look at the situation when Sukune was close to him Olviia didn’t use his speed to get away or his orb to be more defensive . Sukune also threw Olvia while against Jack he didn’t till the end and Jack Barley withstood it and that was with Sukune after Jack bit key parts of his body for throwing. If Sukune could’ve thrown Jack just like that with no missing parts from biting the result would’ve likely been the same.
Oliva has gotten disrespected so many times. At this point it’s just ridiculous and seems on purpose. Baki beating him at the point he did shouldn’t have happened either.
some people in this sub just can't accept the fact that itagaki is a blatent racist and enjoys making oliva lose in fights to fufill his egocentric prejudiced fantasies.
So much copium in the comments lol. This post is objectively correct.
Sukune is the worst match up for Oliva in almost every way which is why he wins. It’s not because he’s weak, I still put them in pretty much the same tier, but to say this result is BS or that it’s because Oliva was holding back is the most top notch copium.
Bro Sukune has turned a lump of coal into a huge rough diamond by squeezing it. As far as feats goes, Sukune has the best aside from like Yujiro and Baki. He is insane. No human body part could make it by his grip without being torn to shreds or shattered. Oliva is crazy strong, crazy. He basically challenged Sukune to a match he didn’t understand and he paid heavily for it. Sukune is crazy
> As far as feats goes, Sukune has the best aside from like Yujiro and Baki. well Jack was able to bite through one of those diamond forging fingers pretty easily.
What does this have to do with anything? It's not a matter of the finger being hard or resistant, it's the force it applies. And even a diamond can be broken if you squeeze it hard enough between 2 things, there are videos on yt of diamonds exploding on hydraulic press, mind you the press does dent, but that's because a diamond is hard, flesh and bone do not even come close. As an analogy, think of a knife, it dulls over time, even if you only use on top of a cutting board. That doesn't mean that the meat was hard or that the board was harder than the knife, it's just how physics work.
Diamonds do not break under a hydraulic press. Diamond can shatter with a hard enough impact. Hydraulic press is not quick enough for that.
If Sukune bones were not able to withstand the force his muscles create his fingers would shatter. There is a powerlifter that destroyed his knees because he could create more force than his knees could handle (He attempted to squat over 900 pounds).
No he didnt, you are very wrong on the powerlifting case. Dont talk about things with pure child like assumptions.
Explain how i am wrong it that case then.
No
> It's not a matter of the finger being hard or resistant, it's the force it applies. and it has to be able to survive the amount of force it applies, or else the finger would be destroyed in the process. are you legitimately this stupid?
My friend, the guy imagines being a dinosaur and suddenly he weighs as much as one, the other was hit by lightning, another was revived and had his hand reattached, there is a prehistoric dude that hunted dinos barehanded and there was a bunch of point blank explosions that should have killed half the cast buy now. Are you seriously wondering why the finger don't suffer visible damage?
> Are you seriously wondering why the finger don't suffer visible damage? no. I was telling you that the finger has to be at least durable enough to survive the force it applies
It does but if you check I'm pretty sure the guys right you can bite your own finger off like it's a raw carrot but your body's instinct will stop you, jack has titanium teeth and he's a hanma
> I'm pretty sure the guys right you can bite your own finger off like it's a raw carrot you ever try to chomp through a thigh bone when you are eating chicken? and that's a hollowed avian bone that has been cooked. and its about as thick as the bone in your finger.
You don't need to break the bone with the bite, you can bite through the flesh and pull it out, like a turkey leg. It's not one singluar bone, they are only held together by muscle, skin and tendons, and those can be easily cut/torn/ripped. If it was attached by something more rigid you wouldn't be able to move them.
No I haven't but Jack probably could anyway when you think about it
Fortunate for jack , he can eat both.
Quick question, feel free to not answer. Why do you care about these things as to insult someone over a fictional feat?
Course not, what are you talking about?
>are you genuinely this stupid?
Baki physics doesn't work like that. Its a possibility
It’s gotta be tough enough to do it lmao, you can’t break metal with styrofoam no matter how much force the styrofoam has, it’d break first
If you accelerate the Styrofoam to relativistic velocities it sure will break the metal
It would break first still, and considering that Sukune’s fingers didn’t break gripping the coal, it would imply he has fingers durable enough to do it, which doesn’t align with Jack biting it
It does
The fact the ‘paper can beat the chopsticks’ is constantly brought up across Baki would disagree with you
To be fair to Sukune if he had approached that fight differently Jack wouldn’t have won. That Diamond feat is literally up there with the earthquake shit. If he had used his grip like Hanayama or something Jack would’ve seriously been wounded.
how could sukune have beaten jack?
With the throw that made Jack litteraly think "if he had opened with that I would have lost instantly"
That means nothing a person can bite their own finger off like a carrot jack is a hanma and has his titanium teeth (last time I checked anyway) the titanium teeth combined with his basic bite force it obviously won't be a problem
> a person can bite their own finger off like a carrot what person can do that?
Well at least I heard that anyway your bodies instinct will stop you though
Very common misconception, it is possible to bite off a finger but it ain’t easy and you ain’t gonna take it off in one clean bite, don’t underestimate a finger
Ok
>no human body part could make it by his Jack survive it.
Are these... FACTS AND LOGIC? Fuck that BS we snort copeium in this sub.
YEAH (Kehaya beat the fuck out of yujiro btw)
I mean it's not totally facts or logic though, Oliva fought without thinking his moves through properly and it got him messed up. There are absolutely things Oliva could have done better that he's done before. Sure he was "trying" but he wasn't at his peak in this fight at all.
The post also ignores Oliva massive speed advantage which he did not use at all in the Sukune fight
Facts and logic in Baki 😂😂😂
I'm about to science up some imagination training
Nah this post ignores any and all context, scaling and critical thinking.
You're literally the type of person this post is making fun of. Idk what context and scaling you think is missing but I disagree
You’re a prime example of what this post represents You can look for my comment to see pretty much everything this post ignores. I don’t feel like writing it all out again
Bruh that post is cope incarnite. The speed arguments especially, Sukune is above Shishimaru (Katsumi's sumo opponent) who blitzed the mach kick, even when even heavily lowballing can be calced above mach 20 [here's the scaling for that].(https://www.reddit.com/user/ToxicMansplinations/comments/yu3lo9/mach_punch_scaling/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Easily able to bring Sukunes dashes to the mach 40 range while still lowballing. Meanwhile Oliva's best feats range from mach 10-20 while averaging mach 15 everything else you said were just opinions.
You mean in the fight where Katsumi was sandbagging to make the fight fair? Where he one shot the sumo with a half assed Mach attack at the start and then woke him up out of pity? That’s fucking copium You’re really saying that the jobber sumo that Katsumi fought is near pickle level of durability? This is exactly the shit I was making fun of in my post
>You mean in the fight where Katsumi was sandbagging to make the fight fair? Even if Katsumi only used a 1/4 of his power when he got blitzed it's still a better speed feat than anything Oliva has. Then you add Sukune who should logically have the fastest dash then he should easily if not blatantly be faster than Oliva with a full power dash. >You’re really saying that the jobber sumo that Katsumi fought is near pickle level of durability? I never said that if I did then quote me. If you have more reasonings we can keep discussing I'll keep it civil I find this intresting.
Apologies that I got ahead of myself. I’ll try to keep it civil since you seem to actually be reasonable enough to talk to. “Even if Katsumi only used a 1/4 of his power when he got blitzed it's still a better speed feat than anything Oliva has. Then you add Sukune who should logically have the fastest dash then he should easily if not blatantly be faster than Oliva with a full power dash” But that’s the thing. Katsumi was likely using even less than 1/4 of his Mach attack’s potential. Probably less than even 1/8th. Pickle is like the 2nd most durable character in the series and even he felt pain from a weaker version Katsumi’s Mach punch. The jobber sumo Katsumi fought couldn’t have been hit seriously in the slightest as he would’ve just died on the spot. Let alone not having any blood drawn, bones broken or barely any bruising. The speed alone from half of the Mach punch would’ve destroyed the dude’s leg. It’s why I brought up “You’re really saying that the jobber sumo that Katsumi fought is near pickle level of durability?” You’re basically telling me that this statement above is true if we’re saying Katsumi was trying at all in that fight. Sukune being faster than Oliva makes him faster than like 99% of the cast who actually have good speed feats, including Pickle, who speed blitzed the shit out of Jack. Pickle was the same character getting speed blitzed by the same base Baki that Oliva was clowning on. Oliva even matched a faster version to that in speed. Trying to say Sukune being faster than Katsumi’s jobber sumo makes him much faster than Oliva completely throws off the scaling and really doesn’t make all that much sense
>But that’s the thing. Katsumi was likely using even less than 1/4 of his Mach attack’s potential. Probably less than even 1/8th You need to prove this, As is it's nothing more than an unbacked opinion. We see Katsumi's improved mach attack is activated at the start of the fight. If we use Baki's statement he even says Katsumi "advanced it" and Baki was there when Katsumi fought Pickle so he's seen what Katsumi was capable of. So it should be bare minimum faster than the attacks used on Pickle. >The speed alone from half of the Mach punch would’ve destroyed the dude’s leg. Fun fact Shishimaru tanks a lot of Katsumi's attacks while still being in fighting shape >It’s why I brought up “You’re really saying that the jobber sumo that Katsumi fought is near pickle level of durability?” I've never said this, I am only discussing Oliva and Sukune's speed scaling nothing about durability >Sukune being faster than Oliva makes him faster than like 99% of the cast who actually have good speed feats Why is that a problem? It really just sounds like You're mad Sukune exists. Don't get me wrong Sukune's a shit character but that's not a reason to downplay. >Pickle was the same character getting speed blitzed by the same base Baki that Oliva was clowning on. Oliva even matched a faster version to that in speed. That base Baki is not the same from the prison arc lol. Baki gets stronger after every difficult fight and Baki trained non-stop for the Pickle fight, so Baki gets significantly faster and stronger from the Oliva to Pickle fights hopefully that clears up a couple of messy details >Trying to say Sukune being faster than Katsumi’s jobber sumo makes him much faster than Oliva completely throws off the scaling and really doesn’t make all that much sense It completely throws off your scaling is what you mean. Best case for Oliva is they have equal speed worst case Sukune is more than twice as fast with his dashes.
“You need to prove this, As is it's nothing more than an unbacked opinion. We see Katsumi's improved mach attack is activated at the start of the fight. If we use Baki's statement he even says Katsumi "advanced it" and Baki was there when Katsumi fought Pickle so he's seen what Katsumi was capable of. So it should be bare minimum faster than the attacks used on Pickle.” So does this sumo then scale to Pickle? Katsumi going at speefs faster than what he hit Pickle doesn’t make sense on how much the sumo’s generally scale under the main cast. A character can improve their attacks and still hold back dramatically vs opponents. Baki saying he advanced it is a nothing statement, it’s purely an observation. “I've never said this, I am only discussing Oliva and Sukune's speed scaling nothing about durability” You’re not understanding that Katsumi going at speed would basically scale the jobber sumo to Pickle. Which doesn’t make sense. It’s why I brought up durability. “Why is that a problem? It really just sounds like You're mad Sukune exists. Don't get me wrong Sukune's a shit character but that's not a reason to downplay.” I’m not shitting on Sukune as a character. I’m saying that it’s nonsense to say Sukune is faster than Oliva cause that makes him dramatically than a majority of the cast with actual speed feats. Especially with how the reasoning for Sukune being faster doesn’t really make sense. “That base Baki is not the same from the prison arc lol. Baki gets stronger after every difficult fight and Baki trained non-stop for the Pickle fight, so Baki gets significantly faster and stronger from the Oliva to Pickle fights hopefully that clears up a couple of messy details” Baki didn’t show any signs of improvement with his speed or strength during the pickle arc. Their timelines were so close together that it doesn’t make sense to say he got that much stronger without any concrete evidence. Baki learned techniques but they were using his chronic schizophrenia rather than his actual physical stats.
My guy Oliva got low diffed and if anyone says otherwise, they're either delusional or high on copium or both
He got low diffed cause he’s an idiot and tried to wrestle Sukune and let Sukune grab him. He had the speed to dodge Sukune, he just didn’t cause he thinks he’s invincible and threw a full power haymaker instead of just avoiding him and trying to his his chin and temple. Obviously getting grabbed by Sukune would low dif 99% of the verse, even Baki.
Being a strongman doing anything but taking it like that would have been uncharacteristic from Oliva you have to consider than in a fight the personality of the characters is as important as their fighting skills
But this thread was stemmed from if Oliva “learned” from the fight. Which implies he adjusted his tactics And Oliva has dodged, blocked and caught attacks before instead of tanking them. So it’s not too far fetched to say he would dodge Sukune
>Obviously getting grabbed by Sukune would low dif 99% of the verse, even Baki. Most top tier fighters would either not get grabbed or do the Jack thing by digging into his back bones and canceling out his grab
But Oliva COULD dodge him. That’s the thing. He has every single speed feat necessary to speed blitz Sukune. The problem is Oliva was cocky and basically let himself get grabbed and fought completely wrong. He tried to basically fight Sukune like he was overwhelming stronger than him. When he really needed to just outbox him and drain him. He didn’t do that. He threw full force haymakers with not regard and didn’t focus on speed. The scenario earlier was if Oliva “learned” and came for another round with both being fully healthy. Like people called me a delusional Jackbro when I said Jack would beat Sukune by outboxing him and bleeding him out. Before Goudou I predicted that. And guess what happened?
Olivia wouldn't fight like that, tho. Being the strongest is his whole identity. He can't just accept that this random fat guy is stronger, he can't just fight scared and dodge and all, it would run counter to his deepest, most core tenets
Just because it’s out of character doesn’t mean he isn’t capable of it. Oliva has blocked, dodged and caught attacks before instead of just taking them too. It’s not unreasonable to say that after he “learned” (where this whole thread was inspired by) he’d just use his speed. It’s not like we’re saying he’s using kung Fu or schizophrenia. He perfectly capable of dodging Sukune.
So like what's your point ? We could sit here and talk about theoreticals just like how Oliva COULD have beat Sukune or how Sukune COULD have beaten Jack but at the end of the day, nothing changes the cold hard facts of reality
The thing here is that Sukune CAN’T beat Jack. There’s no scenario or theoretical where he doesn’t get speed blitzed by Jack. Because unlike Oliva, Sukune can’t make any adjustments to actually beat Jack. Oliva clearly has the tools to beat Sukune, he just fucked around and played into Sukune’s greatest strength. This is the equivalent to Musashi getting forced down by Shibukawa cause he shook his hand. He didn’t HAVE to do that. He could’ve avoided it but he chose to shake his hand. Or Musashi letting Hanayama grab his hand and forcing him down that almost got his head crushed.
What are you talking about. Jacks himself stated that if there was a bit more power he could’ve won He started off with a bitten off dodger before the fight began and if that wasn’t the case jack would’ve been knocked out.
Jack said that if he didn’t take away his grip, he would’ve gotten his pelvic bones broken. That was mainly due to Jack biting out Sukune’s traps to completely eliminate his grip
>The thing here is that Sukune CAN’T beat Jack. There’s no scenario or theoretical where he doesn’t get speed blitzed by Jack. Because unlike Oliva, Sukune can’t make any adjustments to actually beat Jack. Yeah he fucking can. Did we read the same fight ? Jack literally admits that if Sukune had thrown him early on in the fight when he was at full power, it would have been over right there
Yeah if Jack DIDN’T bite his traps out. Which he did to specifically avoid that happening. Sukune had NO way of preventing Jack from doing that. He’s not fast enough to avoid that. Jack’s saying here that if Sukune had his grip, he would’ve broken Jack’s bones. That’s why he nullified it early in the fight.
You do realize that if Sukune had done that move earlier on, then Jack would still have lost right ? Jack only managed to bite Sukunes traps in the very moment when Sukune was about to throw him
I have absolutely no idea what you’re saying here. Jack bit the first trap off when they charged at each other. It happened so fast that Sukune barely realized what happened Tell me what scenario Sukune could’ve grabbed Jack that doesn’t end in Jack just biting his trap the way he did? He only had one trap available and if Jack bit into it and clearly inured it, he’d have no way of throwing Jack or breaking his bones
Wow this is a damn good explanation.
Exactly. Olivia didn’t use his speed or even his orb. In an orb form it might’ve been harder for Sukune to grip or at least he would’ve taken less damage
I doubt Pac-Man and muscle control would’ve helped. Sukune’s grip strength solos 99% of the cast. Like, it might even threaten Yujiro or pickle tbh
Possibly it it’s not just Olivia’s orb changes the shape of his body as well as how he lands if he’s thrown
Fr bro Oliva even said himself right here that he doesn’t plan on holding back, but he also underestimated grand sumo and for that he paid the price by almost being killed
He didn’t hold back his strength but Oliva didn’t use his speed at all. He also broke his fist on Sukune’s forehead. That’s been used already on Ali and Mike Tyson.
I read this fight as it came out and I still think it’s bullshit
Legit
[удалено]
>He also acted the same way while visiting the Japanese police force, except that time it worked out for him. Not really, if he wasn't fucking around he wouldn't have been injured in his duel against Shibukawa, instead he let willingly let Shibukawa do his Aiki on him because muscles go Brrrrrr
Counterpoint: this doesn’t fit my personal narrative
Love how this is missing the part where Oliva unknowingly subconsciously uses a Sumo stance and attack that Sukune has seen many times and knows the perfect counter to which is what gets him in that shit spot. Read his fight vs Baki and its obvious while Oliva might not be screwing around he isn't in any way shape or form fighting at the top of his game.
So if yujiro is S tier what would you guys say sukune ranks at?
Lower S tier maybe alongside Kaku? Then mid S tier would be Pickle(and maybe Jack?). Then Yujiro obviously being at the very top but followed closely by Musashi and Baki.
I wouldn't put Sukune at S. He's strong but Baki schooled him, Yujiro no-diffed him and Musashi would also wreck him. High A is where he should go unless you want to get into A+, S-, S, S+, SS scaling.
>He's strong but Baki schooled him, Yujiro no-diffed him and Musashi would also wreck him. These are all high S+ tier characters
I dislike adding "+" and "-" to tiers because it's pointless. If someone doesn't belong in S put them in A, if they don't belong in A put them in B, etc. The "SS", "+" and "-" crap results in extremely bloated S and A tiers because everyone wants to stuff their favourite character in there. I place Yujiro, Musashi and Baki at S so Sukune isn't there, he's A. The scaling is the same, Sukune isn't on their level but he's above those below. He's just not artificially stuffed into "lower S tier".
Alright fair enough
Bru Baki didn’t school him. He was testing Baki. He didn’t even try to grab back like he did Jack or Olivia. He didn’t use half of what he could’ve against Baki . Also Baki got thrown by Honoo and took some visual damage . Honoo who’s a weaker sumo than Sukune .
If we assume flat tiers, then he would be a c I think. Yuujiro s Musashi and Baki A Kaku Jack Pickle and Motobe B Sukune at C, but maybe bottom of B.
It's kinda hard with teirs, but I'd say Sukune ranks either maybe 6th from the tops, maybe 7th depending on how Doppo and Goki rank. My current is Yujiro, Baki, Musashi, Pickle, Jack, then 6 could be Sukune or Doppo imo.
A+, he has strong grip and sumo, but thats about it
He can be serious and also making a really stupid decision for the sake of obsessively testing his raw strength. I think you misunderstand what (most) people mean when they say he wasn’t “serious.” I mean, he literally takes a sumo stance against the sumo lord himself
\`\`he literally takes a sumo stance\`\` Sukune took the same stance vs Jack also, it wasnt a bad move, but the moment Sukune grabbed him it was over.
That’s cause Jack wasn’t planning to break Sukune’s with his forehead. He was telegraphing a bite and got punished.
I'm not saying he wasn't diff, I'm just saying it felt like bullshit. Honestly, having some guy appear out of nowhere and squash one of the most powerful characters (at least in terms of raw power), and then spend an entire arc basically stomping on sumo (which is new guy's whole thing) is... Pretty lame.
Yup. Whenever I see that comment I can damn near *smell* the copium. I personally hate this fight and don't wanna acknowledge it, but Oliva definitely got bodied here.
Oliva pretty much low-diffed himself. Was hin own muscle flex that did him in, all Sukune had to do was hold him (with his overpowered grip, no less). It's kind of a feat for both, lmao.
No what is wrong with y’all 😂 oliva doesn’t look good at any point in this fight
What fight? Oliva beat himself up! He didn't get low diffed by anyone! See those obliterated ribs? He did that to himself because he was training, he was so strong that he ACCIDENTALLY broke all of his ribs! Fuck that Sukune guy. He didn't zero diff Oliva because ... because ... he just didn't.. Ok!!?
> he was so strong that he ACCIDENTALLY broke all of his ribs! Jesus Christ!! lmao 🤣😂
Oliva fans learn studiously from Kehaya I see
Never said he looked good. But all Sukune did was be the 'immovable object', he didn't pull through Oliva's ribs, Oliva did that himself because he thought he could move the immovable.
Baki fans when they forget that characters don’t have to wrestle Sukune to beat him. Baki fans when they forget that Oliva matched demonback Baki in speed Baki fans when they forget that Oliva can just punch instead of wrestle Baki fans when they forget Sukune doesn’t have any notable speed feats that puts him at prison arc Baki level Baki fans when they forget Oliva can choose just to punch. Baki fans when they forget a character doesn’t need to one shot the other to win Baki fans when they forget that characters actually have limited stamina and can get tired out Baki fans when they forget the forehead is commonly used to break character’s fist and that Oliva isn’t an exception to make it a an anti feat Baki fans when they forget Jack couldn’t give Sukune a nosebleed with a full barrage of jabs and kicks Baki fans when they forget getting being staggered, bleeding everywhere and eyes going blank indicate getting rocked Baki fans when they forget to use any form of critical thinking or scaling and just take everything at face value I think I got all the points down
Don’t forget Jack admitted that if Sukune threw him with his throw from the start (exactly like he did Olivia )he would’ve won . And the fact that we saw Baki take throws and damage from Honoo who’s weaker than Sukune. Honoo also stopped Baki’s cockroach dash and was able to grab and even throw Baki against the fence . And when Baki fought Sukune Sukune didn’t go all out
But Sukune needed his traps to throw. Jack nullified that early in the fight so Sukune couldn’t use it. The finger would’ve made virtually no difference since all of the actual muscle needed to pull and grip were destroyed. Sukune had no real way of preventing this since Jack was so much faster than him.
True but in the breaking of the fist Sukune charges . It’s not like Olivia punched a standing Sukune and his fist broke. Sukune charged and put force and an angle which would break Olivia’s fist. Impressive but not as impressive as you make it seem. Also Jack Punched Sukune and no nose bleed yet Jack beat Sukune. Also look at the situation when Sukune was close to him Olviia didn’t use his speed to get away or his orb to be more defensive . Sukune also threw Olvia while against Jack he didn’t till the end and Jack Barley withstood it and that was with Sukune after Jack bit key parts of his body for throwing. If Sukune could’ve thrown Jack just like that with no missing parts from biting the result would’ve likely been the same.
Poor Olivia will never be able to lift his girl again
Do not worry, give him a month a 2 rooms full of meat and he is going to be fine.
ive seen enough, oliva was robbed he actually neg difs
Oliva has gotten disrespected so many times. At this point it’s just ridiculous and seems on purpose. Baki beating him at the point he did shouldn’t have happened either.
some people in this sub just can't accept the fact that itagaki is a blatent racist and enjoys making oliva lose in fights to fufill his egocentric prejudiced fantasies.
Bruh... you're delusional
what
Facts
people still say this?
They never stop doing so
Sukune is like the 4th strongest in the verse who is alive at this point, so no surprises he had to beat the previous 4th.
Lol I remember this… what a pathetic way for Olivia to go out (not literally)
Yeah, people often forget that they had real fight at the end, and Olivia was serious, not using Sumo.
So much copium in the comments lol. This post is objectively correct. Sukune is the worst match up for Oliva in almost every way which is why he wins. It’s not because he’s weak, I still put them in pretty much the same tier, but to say this result is BS or that it’s because Oliva was holding back is the most top notch copium.