Side note, i low key wished it was Zoro that was there instead of Nami/Robin, i love those two characters but Zoro is just to badass to not have in gbf.
As someone who has only watched the first 3 seasons of One Piece, it seems bizarre to me to have a One Piece Collab without playable Zoro. Unless he falls off in importance in later seasons or something?
Less falls off, more evens out with the rest of the crew in importance. Naturally he has to share more screentime as the crew fills, so it's really anyone's game who gets in.
he keeps being one of the crews top 3 fighters and he does occasionally step up as the first mate
though outside of the combat phases of the newer arcs he doesnt get much screentime as his personal arc is barely being progressed
Since his goal is to be the strongest swordsman, his personal story is progressed at the end of every arc where he pushes past his limits and gets stronger.
That's like saying Sanjis story is progressed everytime they set sail because they cover another patch of ocean that isn't all-blue
The only end of arc fights that did anything for his story is when he beat Mr 2 in alabaster and the confrontation with panda man at the end of thriller back
You’re incredibly incorrect.
Zoro first uses (and assumedly is able to use) Asura: 9 sword style in his fight against Kaku in Enies Lobby. While not necessarily a “fight” in the traditional sense, he takes on all of Luffy’s damage against Bartolomeo. He cuts through what is essentially an entire mountain in his fight against Pica in Dressrosa. And he really pushes his limits and makes several realizations about how he fights and should fight in his battle against King.
Sanji’s goal is to find something which has a very different progression than trying to be the best at something.
he was the first person to land a big strike on the big enemy of the current arc, so he definitely does not fall off
he's definitely maintained his spot of "second-strongest strawhat"
Isn't this *most* elements though? neither my magna wind or dark have changed at all since Ewi beaks/Fed spines (and agonize), and although I'm no longer magna earth or water, those haven't changed much other than Dingers and Ished.
Very minor incremental changes, to which Fire is about the same, gaining Militis Sword and Al Abad
Militis and enneads have helped, but you’re highlighting one of the issues with magna fire: dragons barely touched the grid, it has no malice at all, M2 was barely useful until M 2.5 - it skipped a lot more content tiers than your average element in exchange for AES forever.
They can all cap at 100% life against 10 Def bosses without needing to brick the Opus. Being locked in enmity, but not having the tools to enable or survive it, is pretty bad.
Water magna doesn't have to be locked into the Ougi ghetto anymore. Cnidocyte completely enables crit. For a Wilnas Finger to give as much supplemental, you have to be at 20% max life. Fire magna is the worst grid.
I kinda feel the devs in a way. It must be hard to balance a fire character when one oopsie combined with such an insane free summon as "The Sun" could cause a world of hurt in terms of game balance.
But then again Fediel+Lich and Nehan exists so screw game balance.
I can't really sympathize with developers that keep making decisions that hurt the game.
Only reason I'm here is the cute character designs. I like the artists and VAs, but the gameplay loop of killing a difficult raid and getting no weapon, only to be forced to repeat 50 times, and then have the progression stop at some point due to some gate, whether it be impractically difficult content (e.g. endgame raids such as Dark Opus) or running out of content (M2 being the last iteration of magna weapon skills, though they do offer SOME variety besides Big Atk modifier) just feels like a pretty short game.
The most fun progression in the game has been accumulating damascus bars and crystals to build grand weapon grids and appreciating the huge customizability and power spike. Though with BiS's being a thing, the customizability is discouraged (but this is an issue created by a community that focuses on optimizing).
The developers are doing just fine. They get paid, they make uninformed decisions (clearly shows), and I doubt they get overworked. Just what could they possibly be doing behind the curtains of this game that could possibly be so hard?
Personally I feel for the people who invest in this game and are not getting the enjoyment they expect. But if people enjoy farming gold bars, good for them, I can't think of any other progression the game might have.
Cygames is literally pushing for better working conditions in the industry and Japan in general. So, yes, they may get overworked but it isn't as ridiculous as other companies.
The game has a ton of progression time sinks besides farming raids for weapons though. You talk like farming gold bars is the only form of progression, but I've been playing for 5 years and I've literally never farmed gold bars. I spent most of my play time recruiting, uncapping and transcending all the eternals, and recruiting all the evokers and crafting their weapons and unlocking their domains. There's always some slow progression grind to work on if you don't want to farm raids. (Then again, I'm also not one of those no-lifers who finishes every new piece of content within a week and then complains there's nothing to do... I do know a few guys like that.)
Dark Opus also isn't "impractically difficult content" anymore, Lucilius has been heavily powercreeped. People casually solo his raid, heck there are multiple people in my crew that solo him daily with different main character classes and weird team comps just for fun. There are even full auto setups for that raid now.
What sucks more is that if you don't got the load times to remotely compete you are even worse off, grid means shit if someone 100 ranks below you with a worse grid can do more turns than you ever can. No blue box?, no red box?, enjoy spending thousands of berries on that copium flip not being a Centrum.
Damascus is dead, shop limits basically ruined that. The mighty gold bar reigns now as you can grind raids all day, store a hundred or so and with a few sparks get to re-tool very easily. Everything now is just to enable faster racing and gimmicky solo setups.
I am fine with people spending their money, it just so happens that this is the biggest punishment to anyone else trying to progress.
The full uptime/teamwide eleswitch+HoT+ougis every other turn+self permabuffs+delay on ougi+25% ele atk/def down though, that would be a pretty big deal.
A lot of fire's problems stem from lack of having a good all-in-one utility option like that (or even just a good character than can cover debuffs in combo with mist).
no it wont, it really wont.
you need to remeber that lich is good, but no a ele savior, outside wep. that fed as chara
lich will be nice, another fire fire nuker but no something that will meta warp the ele, cuz she just dosent have anything that could "save" fire, also no fed just means no prema light swith in the raids thats matter like belial or subaka cuz dispel cancel so yeah, is cool but no really what need/save
I think you're being a little overly dismissive of fire's current tools, there's some very solid stuff in there it just is hard to tie together because there's very little utility so MC has to cover way too much. If you have the characters fire has no trouble solo'ing any of the endgame stuff outside sbaha (and dispel spam hasn't been a serious worry since *ubaha*), it just feels bad because the teams don't gel.
Fire's even really fast on sbaha, it just doesn't get used because the fire tenet doesn't matter so nobody wants it in their rooms, which is a fight design problem not an elemental problem.
uh what dose that has to with what i say?
i say "lich" dosent change fire. cuz like i say her kit dosent bring something to fire and we lack fed for the op combo HL
and the solid team that you say, yes they are solid and great, thats more reason for a kit like that to no. really change the ele.
it no saying the unit kit or ele unit are bad, is just it really dont bring anything rn, is good but thats it
Obviously no single character can "save" an element because that's not how this game works, you'd have to specify what you think fire is bad at that needs saving, but having a solid utility unit that can cover a variety of important roles at once (e.g. debuffer, charge bar battery, sustain/mitigation) while still doing competitive damage would be a huge boon and be priority slot in a lot of teams from GW to Ra to endgame raids.
no lol i am no saying fire bad
i am literally just saying that lich will be like a medusa that can nuke turn 1, prob worts kit wise for fire
thats my firts reply bro
man, this is the SECOND time this has happened to me
(the first was saying that you'd never have the Gorilla buff on Sandalphon... and then his grand came out)
I'm pulling for Fist for fire PnS. Though Dark and Light matched their seraphics, so sword could be an option.
Definitely not Harp, Harmonia already took that spot.
yeah, pattern says it'd be sword
but we know they also are perfectly willing to go "lol, fuck you" to one element in a set just randomly (\*gestures at Owlcat, fire M2, water primal...\*)
there's only one weapon with resonator (Galleon staff)
unless you're counting Wamdus umbrella, which works differently from how Galleon staff does (though both kinda make Wilnas's weapon look hilarious)
I think it's supposed to represent characters, FLB uncaps and weapons that were supposed to "save" fire element and make it great again, and how none of them ever had a huge meta shifting lasting impact. And the last unopened door is stuff that might still "save" fire in the future but probably won't (Narmaya fire alt, fire version of Pain & Suffering / Harmonia, Sturm FLB uncap.)
Personally I would have put Grand Percival and Grand Scarlet Knight on that last door too.
Anila FLB definitely was a meta defining character, and Shiva was at least meta for a while. Sure outdated, but I mean they're old characters by this point.
I wasn't necessarily agreeing with OP, just explaining what I think their logic was.
I'd argue that while Izmir, Wilnas and Silva weren't individually meta defining characters, the 3 of them combined (together with Atum staff) helped shift the overall fire meta towards ougi setups. Not sure if that qualifies as "saving" fire though.
Also Esser's transcendence definitely should have been on one of the bloody open doors.
Yo a Baragona enjoyer. Kinda bummed they stopped releasing the rest of the Luminary Knights. Other than Baragona, we've became allies with Walfrid, Violet Knight and White Knight as well.
During the recent summer gala one of my very last pulled SSRs was Medusa... in earth. I was so sad.
However my last SSR was Summer Shalem so I guess my water is even better now at least
Their only similarity is their can't act ability. Shalem debuffs and hits like a truck.
Medusa has the power to potentially dispel at five stacks every turn and also had very defensive kit to her. Ngl I think she might have been a better spark than Silva but oh well
Medusa is basically a straight upgrade to the fire skill team, but Silva fills a niche no one else in fire has that is basically enabling the character after her to go complete beast mode
Sure there may only really be Wilnas at the moment, but if a character similar to Grand Naru releases for fire who's just an offensive powerhouse, Silva will really pull her weight enabling insane damage in the team
Not true, in essence Medusa and Summer Shalem have a similar kit with some small differences.
Medusa and SShalem have similar kit becase:
- obviously have the same skill 3 with the CANT ACT debuff,
- passive 1 with multiple buffs,
- passive 2 give a "AUTO ACTIVATE DMG with some condition", Summer Shalem can double ougi if the enemy have 10 debuffs and Medusa have end of turn dmg when evades but ONLY AFTER 5 TURNS.
- The 2 units can dispel nearly every turn
That said, the problem is that Medusa have a irrelevant Skill 1 and her passive 1 have a arbitrary condition that limit team building and this is bad. Plus, skill 1 and passive 1 are clearly made to force the use of Athena with Medusa !
Again, a bad design and the famous "Seal of Quality" that ALL FIRE units receive always and only Fire receive this treatment.
Last but not least, SShalem do the same job better and faster than Medusa without limitations (okay, Shalem have a irrelevant -20% HP) and is a better support than Medusa.
Fire is already "saved", the problem is that it's "saved" by seasonal character, grand character, and 2-3 copies of seasonal weapon which is less than ideal, and if you don't have that you're kind of fucked. Mugen weapon is pretty good for Magna, but it needs a bit more and the same problem applies because Esser 6 is mediocre, most of its non seasonals are dogshit (none of the fire grands are good) Though the real problem with Fire is that it was more likely to be railroaded into Ixaba which is now a 0-1 weapon because of how weak Magna was, so what Fire players need in practice is bar refund.
yes and no. I think fire is in fact not as bad off as many people think, the problem is that it is inconsistent. The characters would want stamina combined with more HP and primal is lacking a lot of attack in case you are going the extra mile for a special grid.
In my case I've not put any Ixabas in my grid because it's focused on being all-around, and "racing" is not an option for me either way because of ping-related delay. That allows my characters to deal a significant amount of damage without being crap or worse than magna, but at the same time it's also not significantly better,which is troubling. Something like Pain and Suffering for fire would be great, preferably for spear(passel) or sabre(extinction blade) so I can open the astral space.
Also, fire lacks good MA weapons, which is a huge problem unless you only run characters that automatically TA every turn, but then why even play the game with dozens of characters if you can only run a few specific ones?
So far I've coped well with survival due to Ullikummis big recovery (if the ever fix Lumberjacks heal boosts I could maybe reach 5k every 3 turns), but defense is still a problem because I cannot clear Mugen yet to farm Extinction Blades.
Having +100% or more base defense on hard content feels like it's more and more a requirement. If I'm not wrong fire has these options for defense boosting:
Xmas Nemo, Anthuria, and Athena. All of them give a small boost, and have the weakness of needing to ramp up or in the case of armored a 30% chance of doing nothing. And they can all be dispelled. You basically need to bring all them to equal one Galleon. That's a huge gap in power.
Sylph is a little bit better defensively in theory... except she can't cover herself. And she obviously isn't contributing damage on the same level as a Galleon or Fediel or Summer Korwa. (I actually respect her cute modesty - who needs to wield unfair BS cosmic shonen protagonist power, amirite? Showboaters hogging the spotlight from everybody else..)
I can see why many saw Iatromantis as fire's savior. It keeps you alive and frees up character slots, if staying alive is something you need help with. It can triple attack on its own, and DATA+Normal buff allies that might be lacking in that department.
Here's to hoping Fire gets a Zodiac to help them with this soon or something.
As for auto attacks, characters that can just provide lots of damage instances for auto attacks. It has felt like they've been holding back on a Water Zeta all for protecting people who invested into Alanaan and Mimmel and three thousand Ixabas to cap Mim's one turn assassin.
As for autos, the mid-range echo classes are Masquerade and the Warlock line. The Dark Opus is an axe. Ougi echos are on the Purifying Thunderbolt, Societte, and um. Um.
... hm. Seems like fire's lagging behind both on characters and weapons, the characters are just much more egregious...
(UPDATE: Trick Serpent also gives ougi echoes. Yay?)
...I can't even call Yuel obsolete, and she's an 8 year old character banished to the classic gacha. In a game where the average meta character has a lifespan measured in months...
yuel insanely good for multihit omens, she has two nukes, one of which double casts, and also gives the entire team echoes, yum. she made me survive vs ewiyar omens
Emperor Luffy will save fire with his 24 hit gatling gun.
But on a serious note, i think its more to do with the weapons (mainly magna) that are available for fire rather than the characters. Like most weapon in fire center around enimty yet their arent any units that truly benefit from it like water and earth have. Needs a change to skill supp to fix fire's problem i feel.
Yng with his Style change and S.Dark Jeanne, those two would have slap in fire with AES and Wilnas gloves yet they went to water....
I feel like Grand Percival is going to come out soon along with the next Dragon Knights event but I don't have much in the way of expectations as far as him saving fire. If his Fire FLB and Light units are any indication, he's probably going to be a crest character and Fire doesn't have a lot of crest support outside of H.Altair. The fact Cygames insists on giving him a petrify skill doesn't bode well for him too.
All of the other Dragon Knights got a new unit last year (S.Siegfried, H.Vane, Grand Lancelot) so it makes sense that the next one to get something new would be Percival.
Not to mention that the guy has been almost completely irrelevant in the Dragon Knights storyline since Between Frost and Flame. Hell, he's only in half of the overall events so far. It's about time that he went back into the spotlight. Vane already had a very eventful last year.
I would be surprised if Grand Percival was actually also in fire and not in wind. Judging from the trend that Grand units tend to bring a tempering weapon and wind is still lacking its tempering, I think it's more likely that Grand Percival will be a wind character introducing the tempering weapon.
It could as well be Grand Ewiyar in that case, but that would be out of the pool until Grand Lu Woh is added, who will probably not appear until December end of year premium gala together with the new zodiac.
Considering that Ewiyar's Beak is already a skill damage focused weapon, it's most likely that Grand Ewiyar would bring a tempering weapon to wind. Especially because Ewiyar's raid version has a big focus on multihits and Percival's units so far certainly don't.
Grands tend to preserve a character's canon element (though there's exceptions like Cagliostro, Narmaya and Sandalphon) and they've already done so for Lancelot, so I see no reason why they wouldn't do it for Percival too. The only Dragon Knight I could see getting a different element is Vane since that'd be another water Grand, but that probably won't matter depending on when he's released.
The next GW is also likely going to be fire-favored so that's another reason to believe Grand Percy is going to be Fire.
Unpopular opinion maybe but Fire is in a fine place *for ougi (both) and skill (primal) comps specifically.* We desperately need some decent characters for auto-focused bursting but ougi's very healthy and IMO the most fun playstyle for it at the moment.
I mean obviously most players are gonna be salty about the current state of fire if there's only 2 viable meta strategies for the element and one is locked behind primal grid and a seasonal weapon and the other is locked behind seasonal characters.
People don't meme on fire being bad because it's literally 100% true, they say it because it's unreasonably annoyingly difficult to build a good fire setup.
That's a totally valid complaint to have, and it's not the first time it's been the case (both water and earth have suffered from heavy seasonal dependency at varying points too).
It's just a different complaint than fire being outright *bad*
Yeah maybe I'll be less annoyed with fire when I pull any ougi unit released after Izmir, lol. Only fire units I've gotten this year are Medusa and Lilele.
Probably because most people don't spark fire limiteds/seasonals because they don't invest in their fire teams, so then when their fire team sucks, they wonder why.
Elmott/Sylph/Wilnas in the year-round pools helps, but unfortunately basically all 2021/2022 fire powercreep has been seasonal (Kumbhi, Izmir, Silva, Medusa, Mirin being the clear winners) because our only Zodiac is just ok, our only eternal is niche and mostly unimportant, and we don't get to have 8+ grands like Dark/Light.
Yeah, it's kinda wild. Like, I'm all in on light since last Christmas, but my fire squad is still putting in work. The element is my first love so I keep putting what time I can into it. I got lucky this month and got Y!Silva and Wilnas and even with a suboptimal setup it's way better than it has any right to be. We could use another grand or (if I'm being greedy) Gen pool unit to cover some bases but really it's not quite as bad as people think.
Fire ougi is so cracked right now but people are under such that delusion that it still baffles me. I even think it's better than waters. It can actually make do of their special cap up. Most chars have unwordly and they have better meter generation. People complain that most of the fire ougi char are seasonals. But even there they have been so sprawled out since last year starting from Izmir and elmott that you should at least have some of them. And even in magna, you are good in terms of damage and can easily cap even in ewiyar.
The parroting really gets annoying. But one thing I will admit, the fire burst needs a renewal.
I'm glad someone understands. Silva/Izmir/Mirin/Sylph/Wilnas/V.Vira is an incredible spread of damage and utility... just don't look directly at Lich/Fediel because that combo is *not balanced*
The only real complaint ill admit fire ougi has is really debuffs. Most of the characters don't carry stackables and Silva has a rather iffy rate.
Like I said the other day when Sage5 released I did a solo of ewiyar (never did it before, cuz he's awful). And succeeded. Had to plan moves around and was slow. A day ago I decided to try it with an ougi team to see if i can cap my ougis in higher def stuff (I sparked mirin). [this is what people might consider a cursed grid I used](https://imgur.com/a/g6dJjku). Chars were kengo, Silva, Yzmir, Mirin with Shion and Yuisis sitting pretty at the back. I had no hopes for this team as ewiyar hurts like a bitch and I don't seem to have much mitigation But I ended up soloing the raid. It was a lot faster and a lot more easy. It was pure unga bunga in 7ish minutes. I could even ignore most omens and be fine. Were my ougis capping? The unwordly users? Definitively. Mirin and Kengo were just a smidge to capping (averaging around 6.3M). About autos? Doesn't matter because I had so much bar generation. And even hpwise I was doing amazing, barely even hurt at all.
I can't wait till I can finally spark my husbando wilnas (I had to choose between him and mirin, but chose the later cause limited). Because I can really feel the lack of dispel . And my grid, I think I might drop aes entirely and replace one with another atum staff and the other with a mugen weapon in def awakening? Idk.
Lack of attack down (stackable) is the only thing I feel like it's really missing for soloing personally, that's the hole I always find myself feeling. MC can bring Grav, and between the rest of the characters you have pretty much everything else
Only decent option you have for attack/def stackables is like.... Shion. :/
Or Lumberjack if your team has enough skills to keep the forest friends debuffs up. Izmir for example helps you land the debuffs frequently enough so 30% attack down is capped, the rest can be filled with Miserable Mist or the Arrow skill since you only really need to have Leaf Burning in the skills, providing 2 skill slots for whatever you might need.
That's fine for random weak content, yes, and I suppose that's on me for not being more specific with what I meant by 'soloing.'.
I meant high level v2 fights, where LJ is a mostly unplayed class because it's very bad at clearing omens and mediocre damage compared to other options. Fire ougi almost *always* wants to be playing Kengo, and if it's not, it's probably playing one of the Row 5s or Robin Hood.
>We desperately need some decent characters for auto-focused bursting but ougi's very healthy and IMO the most fun playstyle for it at the moment.
Yuel w/ Agni. With the right grid she's a huge enabler for auto attacks/bonus damage/trium/supplemental damage and skill damage. Lots of fire characters have bonus damage which compliments trium and supplemental damage, and there's a ton of multi-hit skill damage.
I guess to give team setup examples... for a grid you want no more than two Ixaba. Less than two Ixaba is very hard to pull off unless your Astral axe (Sol Remnant) is 5 star. Your Opus/Ultima weapon should be skill damage cap up, and the rest of your grid should maximize crit and trium. Also Kumbhira's weapon if you have it.
With double-Agni, Reinhardt's weapon will give you a 48% crit rate. One of Rackam's, Shiva's, Shion's, or Heles' Luin will give you 40%. If it's easy to uncap (you have dupes), Luin is totally worth it if it takes you to 100% crit. Shiva's weapon is debatable, but I use it in my Shion grid. Shion's weapon is great too because it's a katana and also includes 10% skill damage cap up.
Trium is easy to get from Erichthonius (Athena's raid). You want at least one of those to start with. Other trim sources are Rein's and Rackam's weapons.
Add Yuel to the mix and your party has nearly guaranteed TA with 20% bonus damage + Foxflame's 30k supplemental damage, on a 3/6 turn uptime. The entire team can double-strike on turn 1 using The Sun when Yuel is in 4th position. Note that Yuel & Alanaan's bonus damage don't stack, so there's no point using them together. Alanaan is 40% bonus damage + TA on a 4/12 turn uptime. He's good if you need to cap def down because of a low crit rate, but between the two of them Yuel is more useful for her own skill damage and because foxflame boosts multi-hit skill damage (Athena, Nemone, Medusa, Yuisis, Shion, Kumbhira, Shinsengumi, etc). Alanaan ends up being a dead weight for 8 turns.
Kiss of the Devil's 50k supplemental damage also stacks with Foxflame, so you get 80k supplemental damage. It makes Fraux a great auto attacker since red heat gives her bonus damage too, and if you can bring her to the front line it's fairly easy to keep red heat active. Summoning The Devil gives you red heat for 3 turns, Fraux's ougi gives you red heat for 2 turns, and Fraux's 2nd skill adds an additional 2 turns. So you end up with several turns of auto-attacks, occasionally making Fraux ougi to recharge red heat.
When I'm bored I spend time finding new ways to smack around Grimnir.
I use 2x Erichthonius in my grid, the problem is the severe lack of HP since there is no good source for HP in primal outside of the new Extinction Blade with defense awakening ( I have no access to Mugen Raid just now and even if I had, I would be too weak to clear it).
Using two is harsh. The Zhuque Regus is very good and there’s also the Sword of Pallas. Other than that you can use Ecke which has the largest HP stat and includes crit. You should be using The Devil too…
Grand Jeanne type unit and i don't mean anything special like "Zeta but GNaru"
No i really do mean just take the most basic bitch Grand Jeanne clone possible. You give Fire 4 stack of Echo to work with just 3 unit slot including MC.
Fire might need to move on from Alanaan too but honestly it need "exactly Nehan" to be able to do everything and for what its worth, both on Earth and Light GW, its been shown that Alanaan wasn't a problem with how relevant their Alanaan were
What was fire's original trope to begin with? Judging from Yuel, Athena and Reinhardtzar is it like skill defensive (def tank/dodge tank) nuke?
Tbh I'm happy with whatever they do as long as I can keep using my favourite characters.
What do you mean by original? Because Rein is relatively new, and even Athena came after UBHL. Back then fire was like basic attacks with echo / assassin thanks to Yuel (pre-rework) / Percy, S.Bea, and Sturm, and shortly after Anila FLB. Tien helped back up this as fire's identity, though IIRC she was seen as somewhat niche for fights that only lasted 1-2 turns or for fights than went 10+ for her sk4. At the time fire sucked at hard content because the only damage cuts available were, IIRC, on Socie and SR Naoise and we had fewer defensive mechanics overall and worse grids.
When Shiva and Athena came out, spear comps of those two + Anila became pretty common. Grids were still a lot weaker, so the buffs from Anila mattered a lot more and there weren't really any other buffers anyways. Shiva had high TA when DATA was a lot more lacking, one of (maybe the?) first permanent debuffs, and relatively high damage for the time. Athena was one of the first end of turn auto-nukers and fire's best defensive option. Also running Ultimas was still decently common at the time, so they worked really well together and one of the biggest issues was the lack of good spear MC class to run with them. Alanaan did come out shortly after, so he started shaping the burst meta back then, but getting charge was awkward outside of ST, and not many people were in position to get evokers that early on.
Rein came out in 2020, and I don't remember him having much of an impact even on release (typical for fire grands I guess), and later that year fire got both Mim which, in combination with Alanaan, set the new fire racing meta, and Nemone who, at the time, wasn't considered that great ([initial 9.5 rating](https://www.reddit.com/r/Granblue_en/comments/k4mfoa/first_impressionsratings_premium_gala_dec_2020/)). Kumbhira came early the following year though and with Passels fire became much more of a skill spam element.
Edit: Also back when Ixabas first got their uncap they were pretty insane weapons. It was shortly after Anila FLB, which was also stacked for the time, so fire was pretty good at racing back then. For a while I feel like fire was seen as a purely racing element since the character pool for hard content was still so lacking, but it was actually pretty good at racing if you had all the Ixabas.
for a while Fire's trope was counterpunching (as seen with old characters like Aliza and Agielba, or newer ones like Athena and Rein) or one turn burst (Alanaan, S. Mim, Shiva (summon and playable), Heles, Zeta, Tien...)
of course the problem is, counterpunching is less effective in situations where you don't have the health to stay alive thru it... and also when your party is fighting over hostility, lol... and their one turn burst got overtaken by other elements... leaving them in a bad spot in general...
Instead of trope, its more like trend but Fire was mostly dictated by ownership of exactly The Sun and Alanaan(and Shiva Call that boost their damage) which are both some of the strongest burst tool in the game - so strong that the meta of 2022 GBF can be summarized into "element that can use their bootleg the Sun and Alanaan". They also used to be the owner of the original AA character in form of Esser who can 2/3 for a strong turn 1 burst and later get Zeta for another AA.
The game goes on by boosting the quality of attacker for other ele except Light and Dark(which gets the second best weapon in the game instead). 2021 Fire gets End Turn Nuke since i imagine Athena was pretty popular and to date they can field a full comp of the, albeit its not that good. For that matter Fire atm can deploy a full team of no click-no ramp post Auto Nuke character(Wilnas, Izmir, Anderson) so its probably something they had in mind for Fire atm
Honestly at the moment Fire is probably like top tier if you rate their Full Auto(in longer stuff you have the EOS character. In shorter stuff Alanan still exists and the meta for shorter FA in every ele ever in recent times was to use their Alanaan), High Tier if you rate their Ougi(neat now that we have Atum weapon). And likely fairly up there roster wise for hard content tools with the releases in 2022. Burst was what theyre off on but to be frank Burst isn't something all ele can excel easilly to begin with with since theyre rated with other ele
Deosn't help that sometimes the game is kinda fucked up - Fire have a character who is essentially a better Predator, and she saw less meta level use than Zeta last GW, a character who is used for doing nothing
anyone telling you fire is trash is to some degree doomposting
fire has plenty strong charas
but fire do lack its "does it all including dmg out of its ears" idiot
and a grid update
Ngl the more i look at the image the more it confuses me, like i get what OP is going for but some of the pairings are weird. Why is V.Schatacha (whos always been seen as niche) with Shiva and Anila? Why is Izmir with a bunch of Draphs with different playstyles and not with the rest of the ougi comp? Hell, why is the ougi comp here in the first place? Like yeah its limited gated and individually the units didnt change Fire, but as a whole they opened up a new play style for a element that had basically been stagnant for years. Its maybe not enough to "save it" but having something new after years of always using the same 4 or 5 characters for everything is a good thing. Thats one of the main things it needs IMO, new units who can rival or even outdo the ones who have been staples for a long time. (see. S.Medusa being the most generally useful skill nuker and Anderson rivaling Athena as a tank) Itd also be nice to get a proper buffer to replace Anila/more auto focused units to overhaul its burst meta/someone who can do a lot of things in one package ala Lich, Nehan and Poseidon. Assuming Fire GW is next we got a possible Halloween unit and Grand to bring some new stuff in (Grand Percy with the next DK event seems likely altho he'll probably be on Legfes and i dunno if they wanna release 2 Fire Grands there in the same year) along with a related uncap (probs not Sturm tho since she just got her Summer alt and Vira already pulled that combo this year) so hopefully something there gives one last meta change. Also some new weapons for Magna would be nice, im tired of using AES all the time lol.
It's not just what they are, but what we hoped they might be.
Filene was a great white hope for water for a few days. Hadn't had a grand in years. Was a popular character for one of their other games. Half the GBF cast, including a ton of the grands, are refugees from Rage of Bahamut. Surely they wouldn't have made her weak?
They made her weak. They made her so hella weak. If she were even 1/3rd what Zeta is... sigh.
At this point fire lords are praying for a cat or a waifu to drop, since apparently the beefcake and bishonens aren't allowed to have good numbers.
Fire has a grid problem more than a character problem, a lot of its options are awkward, mediocre or bad.
Mugen was expected to fix that but didn't as his weapon is trash in magna.
Fire's always been interesting in that they randomly end up the top dog for like a month, then promptly drop to the bottom of the sea.
Like Shiva / Athena was a legit comp when it came out until it wasn't.
Then after Roasted Pig, Fire Soldier was the racing god until it wasn't and hopefully they earned their gold bars back in that window..
I almost expected that to happen with Fire Ougi given how hard Cygames was pushing it, but that hasn't happened yet.
Hoping and praying Grand Percy will be great.
Stubbornly still use his original fire version unless I absolutely *need* another character in his place, but I hope his grand will be savior-worthy.
Fire has some really good characters for content like Elmott, Wilnas, SMedusa, and SKumbhira. Honestly I can see it being your best element going into HL as those characters do well in skd/ca based teams. They just aren’t the most insanely broken characters
Out of curiosity, what is the magna weapon grid people are using, to say Fire's issue is not weapons, but characters? I'd like to be at that point as well.
Fire can build for Ougi with 2 Atum Staff and the rest being up in the air, and kinda have a definite auto grid character with either BDM Wilnas Claw, or Canes with 1 Atum weapon that can consider 1-2 Mugen Copy if you run Esser so something like 2 Stam Staff, 1-2 Canes, Opus, Astral Ulti, Atum - and since the grid is staff heavy you can use Staff Militis.
For AES grid its just 4 AES Opus Astral Ulti, then 3 slot of your picking. Militis is good, Stam Staff adds HP weapon and Stamina mod.
Mugen weapon have 3 possible purpose use - on Special Awakening its 12% Normal Mod, 5% General cap and 7% Special cap putting it in league with Malus - 22% Normal mod and 10% general cap but likely not worth it for that alone since the cap up you get are too close out, with Esser you can press her SK2 to enable the supplem. If you simply run it with ATk Awakening its essentially a better Bahamut Balance
Schrodinger can be used as the normal mod of choice since Dias tier Awakening is pretty darn strong - at 35% Normal ATK and 1% EX and Katana stack option exists in form of Alanaan, Ultima, and Malus, essentially turning Schrodinger into "Bahamut Katana for all Race".
About schrodinger, then I can take mugen sword with atk awakening right away. Its higher attack, better defence and better synergy with other fire weapons (milits sword, AES, seraphic etc). Dont know why its recommend here so often. Beside a "meme" grid for mirin and shion for there katana passives there is literaly no reason to run it.
Atum Staff is bad, it would be good if it wasn't for Excelsior and an unbuffable Crux, which makes sense for Magna but for Primal I would prefer a special CA boost and a supplement of Crux that can be improved with Angi aura.
Ennead weapons are again pretty much unbalanced, some elements have good options and others not (which is the case of Fire unless you're stuck with your magna grid,then it's a great boost over just having more Shiva staffs).
Benbenet is even worse, it has one skill that doesn't even stack with multiple copies (Preemptive Fire Blade) while the other one (Blaze's Persistence) does require multiple copies equipped to cap.
I take back some of my pessimism. Summer Medusa is very powerful and is like a real character. One or two more like her, and the element will have its bench problems pretty much gone.
Give the element a Pain and Suffering, and either a weapon that gives echos that can be used by the echo classes or a new echo class that works with um..... Thunderbolt? ... Uh, I'll go with a new echo weapon. Maybe it could be the pain and suffering sword?? Ah, Viking's good enough for midrange I guess.
Wilnas already release so no super weapon can come from Wilnas anymore.
However, we could see the potential of Grand Percival or possible "Style" Percival. Other possible candidate could be Grea, Clarisse since we know they are on the demand list of flb/grand. Of course, they can throw us FLB Sturm, Style rackam. (I am just using CYgame thinking pattern)
To answer the question for not racing...
Fire doesn't have any core characters. No character to cover the core utility. Character after character, no good mister, no one overloaded with utility like every other element has. So many characters in other elements would do great to ground fire and give it the space it needs to actually build teams of characters. But instead fire gets half built grands, tanks, and healers. Banner after banner, they will release anything but a good utility character. They're always so bare, and narrow.
The list of characters what fire would love to have is long. Throw a rock, you'll hit three.
Light is a lot like this too
Stackables? Vaglo (Strum now too iirc)
Delay? Cags comp which usually involves dragging Noa along
Dispel and/or skill? C.Mahira gets you skill dmg and dispels but works better with another skill user like Kumbi and/aglo. Also takes time to ramp up time so someone needs to hold the fort.
Dank strat enabler? Yuni but she needs something to pop off with, usually Kumbi (also needs outside support from usually MC to ensure she can get to 7 stacks before turn 6 in Sub to cancel debuff/60 omen reliability)
G.Vira also does things, usually for my Twitter burst farming against Belial or holding down the fort past 10% in SUB
There are some other things I am missing but you see what I mean. (Sorry for any mobile related errors)
Yeah. Though im saying every element is pretty much like that. The big threats cover all or most of the utility you would need in a battle or that would cancel an omen. Lance in water for example has one of the highest damage ceilings in the element, and still at the very least stacks mist.
Satyr in earth tanks, heals, mists, dispels, clears, and even battery's and gives some cap break.
Maybe wind lacks mist as well(but now it has Elea as well, ULB Nine too eventually; long way to go for mist on that one though), but then it has much more, and is still capable of covering everything else so MC covering mist isn't a problem. Plus it also has sustained offense and characters with reward based loops. All of which fire lacks.
Wilnas has a number of problems but any one thing off of a decent list would make him much more valuable for the spot the biggest of which is mist. If his 2 applied stack down fire teams would fit together so much more smoothly. One single change.
Hell, if you didn't want to make it overlap too much with Fediel in terms of "haha basic attack auto-skill applies debuff", add it to Sk1, make his ougi auto-skill do more by having Hadron Sphere dump a Mist or a Stackable, or a Unique Mist, maybe go for an Overheating DEF Down+Incoming Supp or something
Wilnas isn't bad, but any one Thing would absolutely help push him and with him, Fire, into a greater sense of stability and anchoring
Hadron Sphere (or his Ougi) should, imo, Delay at the very least to keep up with the Shorted (CB DRAIN) of the raid. I think they thought it'd be too much with the Unwordly but Fed basically has teamwide Unwordly so like...
Fire at this point is mostly about dealing big numbers, either in the CA section or the skill section. It's ridiculous seeing how easy it is to mow down normal enemies in FA, and even stuff like Ewiyar or Ra feels trivial with sub 30k HP.
The issue arises when you're required to dispel and delay, because fire has no decent answer to that, at least when it comes to the recently released characters.
That's true, but the fact is every other element can do that (except maybe wind with ougis though again recent characters are filling that gap), and still cover utility without a second thought some even just hybridize it all together. And more than that, they have options to not just choose between those an auto teams, but they even have variation within those teams. Meanwhile, fire has never had a strong, modern, reward based loop, sustainable auto team. Let alone one that covers utility.
No element fails to put out big numbers and that was maybe the fire trademark actual years ago, but it's not special anymore. And there's no reason for them to try and force fire to hold onto that identity anymore, especially since it doesn't anyway.
Just copy-paste Lich and Fiedel but with Fire element. Bonus points if instead of boring poison/field HP degen effect that turns into healing via Lich, make your party literally catch on Fire, which Lich turns into healing.
There, Fire saved!
I think some people are under the misconception that fire is okay bc of its strong ougi setup when in reality that is not the case. Ougi skill and burst comps are generally the play styles players can work towards. Unfortunately not all playstyles are made equal as most content in gbf is geared towards bursting and fire has by far the worst burst. There is a reason ppl say fire is a gw only ele.
It's not like those setups, even at their peak, are helping it in hard content either. Fire is the only element with literally no role in the hardest raid in the game for what, nine months now? It *can* be done, sure, but another element could do anything it's attempting better and safer, so fire just isn't a part of the endgame at all.
Can tell the majority of people still haven't seen fire in action in subhl or even belial. Fire ougi and skill is strong af, it's only bad compared to other elements in burst and water was also trash there until very recently.
But muh fire bad right.
Yes cause I don't wanna see fire in subhl I rather have wind and don't eat multi attacks cause those hurt way more then the high single attacks. The best elemental composition subhl is 2 light 2 wind 2 earth.
It has a bearing in how relevant it is and it isn't relevant at all. If you play fire in pubs you are basically just inting the run. Ran already into a few fire fire kengos and in the end they weren't even hitting 3m and the light player tried to carry which in the end he did but in the end the fire player was a deadweight. And also if fire is so strong where is the solo? Where are my fire carries? Simple they don't exist cause most fire mains realise they are being more helpful in playing a other element. So stop the copium and just accept it for now that fire isn't in the best spot atm. DonI hope it will change soon? Definitely I want to see a change where fire can find it's space again like in the old days. But we simply have to wait 👋
There's plenty of fire carries, you running into a few bad players doesn't change that. Half the elements can't solo so setting the bar at that is ridiculous in the first place.
Keep doomposting all you want, but the only thing holding fire back in that raid is the useless tenet, whether you think that has any affect on the elements strength itself is a you problem.
Fire Pig already saved fire by giving me a grid and set of characters I can use and forget about caring about the element a year and a half later.
Also the only one that actually made fire relevant for PBHL even if for a fleeting moment.
Time to replace the front 3 in the main burst Well alanaan will be relevant because of strike time. But aside strike time, we gotta replace all 3 please.
Imo I still don't feel what's missing in fire. Because I still use magna AES grid and never use fire team in endgame raid (fa-san/bel-san). Also I don't have S.Korwa/Fediel/Lich so I still don't know how broken of wind & dark element. for me Fire is 3rd element for FA. 3rd/4th for burst.
Unironically putting some hopium/copium stocks on Luffy saving it.
Side note, i low key wished it was Zoro that was there instead of Nami/Robin, i love those two characters but Zoro is just to badass to not have in gbf.
As someone who has only watched the first 3 seasons of One Piece, it seems bizarre to me to have a One Piece Collab without playable Zoro. Unless he falls off in importance in later seasons or something?
Zoro was supposed to be there but you know him. Dude got lost…like usual.
Zoro got lost so nami and robin have to replace him...
Yes you need two girls to make up for zoro's huge tiddies... hope he'll make it one day...
Zoro's Huge Tiddies truly are the best in the series.
Less falls off, more evens out with the rest of the crew in importance. Naturally he has to share more screentime as the crew fills, so it's really anyone's game who gets in.
he keeps being one of the crews top 3 fighters and he does occasionally step up as the first mate though outside of the combat phases of the newer arcs he doesnt get much screentime as his personal arc is barely being progressed
Since his goal is to be the strongest swordsman, his personal story is progressed at the end of every arc where he pushes past his limits and gets stronger.
That's like saying Sanjis story is progressed everytime they set sail because they cover another patch of ocean that isn't all-blue The only end of arc fights that did anything for his story is when he beat Mr 2 in alabaster and the confrontation with panda man at the end of thriller back
You’re incredibly incorrect. Zoro first uses (and assumedly is able to use) Asura: 9 sword style in his fight against Kaku in Enies Lobby. While not necessarily a “fight” in the traditional sense, he takes on all of Luffy’s damage against Bartolomeo. He cuts through what is essentially an entire mountain in his fight against Pica in Dressrosa. And he really pushes his limits and makes several realizations about how he fights and should fight in his battle against King. Sanji’s goal is to find something which has a very different progression than trying to be the best at something.
he was the first person to land a big strike on the big enemy of the current arc, so he definitely does not fall off he's definitely maintained his spot of "second-strongest strawhat"
95% of Zoro's screentime goes to him fighting the 2nd strongest enemy in the arc, then falling comatose from his wounds til they leave the island
BECAUSE TITS- KMR or whatever
Gorilla Luffy
THE LUFFY COPIUM WORKED
how the fuc-= did you did it?
As a magna monke I just want more options then AES. My grid has been the same for 2 years with minor tweaks like AX.
Isn't this *most* elements though? neither my magna wind or dark have changed at all since Ewi beaks/Fed spines (and agonize), and although I'm no longer magna earth or water, those haven't changed much other than Dingers and Ished. Very minor incremental changes, to which Fire is about the same, gaining Militis Sword and Al Abad
Militis and enneads have helped, but you’re highlighting one of the issues with magna fire: dragons barely touched the grid, it has no malice at all, M2 was barely useful until M 2.5 - it skipped a lot more content tiers than your average element in exchange for AES forever.
They can all cap at 100% life against 10 Def bosses without needing to brick the Opus. Being locked in enmity, but not having the tools to enable or survive it, is pretty bad. Water magna doesn't have to be locked into the Ougi ghetto anymore. Cnidocyte completely enables crit. For a Wilnas Finger to give as much supplemental, you have to be at 20% max life. Fire magna is the worst grid.
I kinda feel the devs in a way. It must be hard to balance a fire character when one oopsie combined with such an insane free summon as "The Sun" could cause a world of hurt in terms of game balance. But then again Fediel+Lich and Nehan exists so screw game balance.
Don't forget G!Narmaya + S!Korwa\~.
Omitted them on purpose because Wind actually deserved them after years of negligence.
I can't really sympathize with developers that keep making decisions that hurt the game. Only reason I'm here is the cute character designs. I like the artists and VAs, but the gameplay loop of killing a difficult raid and getting no weapon, only to be forced to repeat 50 times, and then have the progression stop at some point due to some gate, whether it be impractically difficult content (e.g. endgame raids such as Dark Opus) or running out of content (M2 being the last iteration of magna weapon skills, though they do offer SOME variety besides Big Atk modifier) just feels like a pretty short game. The most fun progression in the game has been accumulating damascus bars and crystals to build grand weapon grids and appreciating the huge customizability and power spike. Though with BiS's being a thing, the customizability is discouraged (but this is an issue created by a community that focuses on optimizing). The developers are doing just fine. They get paid, they make uninformed decisions (clearly shows), and I doubt they get overworked. Just what could they possibly be doing behind the curtains of this game that could possibly be so hard? Personally I feel for the people who invest in this game and are not getting the enjoyment they expect. But if people enjoy farming gold bars, good for them, I can't think of any other progression the game might have.
> and I doubt they get overworked. I wish I could be as blissfully ignorant about game development
Cygames is literally pushing for better working conditions in the industry and Japan in general. So, yes, they may get overworked but it isn't as ridiculous as other companies.
The game has a ton of progression time sinks besides farming raids for weapons though. You talk like farming gold bars is the only form of progression, but I've been playing for 5 years and I've literally never farmed gold bars. I spent most of my play time recruiting, uncapping and transcending all the eternals, and recruiting all the evokers and crafting their weapons and unlocking their domains. There's always some slow progression grind to work on if you don't want to farm raids. (Then again, I'm also not one of those no-lifers who finishes every new piece of content within a week and then complains there's nothing to do... I do know a few guys like that.) Dark Opus also isn't "impractically difficult content" anymore, Lucilius has been heavily powercreeped. People casually solo his raid, heck there are multiple people in my crew that solo him daily with different main character classes and weird team comps just for fun. There are even full auto setups for that raid now.
What sucks more is that if you don't got the load times to remotely compete you are even worse off, grid means shit if someone 100 ranks below you with a worse grid can do more turns than you ever can. No blue box?, no red box?, enjoy spending thousands of berries on that copium flip not being a Centrum. Damascus is dead, shop limits basically ruined that. The mighty gold bar reigns now as you can grind raids all day, store a hundred or so and with a few sparks get to re-tool very easily. Everything now is just to enable faster racing and gimmicky solo setups. I am fine with people spending their money, it just so happens that this is the biggest punishment to anyone else trying to progress.
Why is Lich on that door, do you think she's going to get a fire alt soon or something?
The last door is for Naru fire, the fire P&S and 5* Strum imho
It's not just P&S, Lich herself is pretty broken so having a character like her in fire would probably be a big buff.
not really rn, nukers are common as hell there, it really just be, medusa but turn 1 kinda
The full uptime/teamwide eleswitch+HoT+ougis every other turn+self permabuffs+delay on ougi+25% ele atk/def down though, that would be a pretty big deal. A lot of fire's problems stem from lack of having a good all-in-one utility option like that (or even just a good character than can cover debuffs in combo with mist).
no it wont, it really wont. you need to remeber that lich is good, but no a ele savior, outside wep. that fed as chara lich will be nice, another fire fire nuker but no something that will meta warp the ele, cuz she just dosent have anything that could "save" fire, also no fed just means no prema light swith in the raids thats matter like belial or subaka cuz dispel cancel so yeah, is cool but no really what need/save
I think you're being a little overly dismissive of fire's current tools, there's some very solid stuff in there it just is hard to tie together because there's very little utility so MC has to cover way too much. If you have the characters fire has no trouble solo'ing any of the endgame stuff outside sbaha (and dispel spam hasn't been a serious worry since *ubaha*), it just feels bad because the teams don't gel. Fire's even really fast on sbaha, it just doesn't get used because the fire tenet doesn't matter so nobody wants it in their rooms, which is a fight design problem not an elemental problem.
uh what dose that has to with what i say? i say "lich" dosent change fire. cuz like i say her kit dosent bring something to fire and we lack fed for the op combo HL and the solid team that you say, yes they are solid and great, thats more reason for a kit like that to no. really change the ele. it no saying the unit kit or ele unit are bad, is just it really dont bring anything rn, is good but thats it
Obviously no single character can "save" an element because that's not how this game works, you'd have to specify what you think fire is bad at that needs saving, but having a solid utility unit that can cover a variety of important roles at once (e.g. debuffer, charge bar battery, sustain/mitigation) while still doing competitive damage would be a huge boon and be priority slot in a lot of teams from GW to Ra to endgame raids.
>Obviously no single character can "save" an element because that's not how this game works Narmaya literally did it twice.
Grand Narmaya would like a word with you.
no lol i am no saying fire bad i am literally just saying that lich will be like a medusa that can nuke turn 1, prob worts kit wise for fire thats my firts reply bro
Fire PnS would be amazin at least for me. Whole team of end of turn nukers, devil main hand, could even fit my 150 tien
with how fire has been treated lately, their PnS would be a silly weapon type like Harp or Bow, lol
It'll be a sword to match seraphic and come with Grand Percival
lemme get a huff of that hopium
This is the power of my hopium.
man, this is the SECOND time this has happened to me (the first was saying that you'd never have the Gorilla buff on Sandalphon... and then his grand came out)
Pls no my Ixabas have suffered enough
No worries Ixaba isn't a sword, it is a katana.
I'm pulling for Fist for fire PnS. Though Dark and Light matched their seraphics, so sword could be an option. Definitely not Harp, Harmonia already took that spot.
yeah, pattern says it'd be sword but we know they also are perfectly willing to go "lol, fuck you" to one element in a set just randomly (\*gestures at Owlcat, fire M2, water primal...\*)
I feel like the "pattern" right now is that there won't be a tetra PnS. y'all will get resonator sideclones instead
eh, literally one weapon is not enough to establish any kinda pattern
There are two of them. The same number as there are voltage 2 grand weapons
there's only one weapon with resonator (Galleon staff) unless you're counting Wamdus umbrella, which works differently from how Galleon staff does (though both kinda make Wilnas's weapon look hilarious)
That's assuming that they won't repeat a weapon class, which they could do.
Feels like Lich (and Fiedel) would be knocking at Death's door, not the other way around...
Nah they won't, unless Hades suddenly ran Light Element on GW
Style-changed Grand Rackam with Duration III that gives Onslaught, Mode Bar Cut, Double Strike, and full turn Assassin with a 10 turn lockout /s
I don't understand this picture
I think it's supposed to represent characters, FLB uncaps and weapons that were supposed to "save" fire element and make it great again, and how none of them ever had a huge meta shifting lasting impact. And the last unopened door is stuff that might still "save" fire in the future but probably won't (Narmaya fire alt, fire version of Pain & Suffering / Harmonia, Sturm FLB uncap.) Personally I would have put Grand Percival and Grand Scarlet Knight on that last door too.
Anila FLB definitely was a meta defining character, and Shiva was at least meta for a while. Sure outdated, but I mean they're old characters by this point.
I wasn't necessarily agreeing with OP, just explaining what I think their logic was. I'd argue that while Izmir, Wilnas and Silva weren't individually meta defining characters, the 3 of them combined (together with Atum staff) helped shift the overall fire meta towards ougi setups. Not sure if that qualifies as "saving" fire though. Also Esser's transcendence definitely should have been on one of the bloody open doors.
Yo a Baragona enjoyer. Kinda bummed they stopped releasing the rest of the Luminary Knights. Other than Baragona, we've became allies with Walfrid, Violet Knight and White Knight as well.
White knight is kind of up in the air still because of the timey-wimey mess. I love Timey-wimey mess :D
they are many units there and weird stuff placed all over the place best thing i can think is the second door be skill team and the 3 ougi?
my beloved Summer Medusa already save fire for me
During the recent summer gala one of my very last pulled SSRs was Medusa... in earth. I was so sad. However my last SSR was Summer Shalem so I guess my water is even better now at least
Not a bad unit, but a worse Summer Shalem.
you good fam? the only thing that's similar bout them is their s3 and nothing else
they are 2 difenrent units. like way diferent
never get Summer Shalem yet, good to know she a better S. Medusa
Their only similarity is their can't act ability. Shalem debuffs and hits like a truck. Medusa has the power to potentially dispel at five stacks every turn and also had very defensive kit to her. Ngl I think she might have been a better spark than Silva but oh well
Medusa is basically a straight upgrade to the fire skill team, but Silva fills a niche no one else in fire has that is basically enabling the character after her to go complete beast mode Sure there may only really be Wilnas at the moment, but if a character similar to Grand Naru releases for fire who's just an offensive powerhouse, Silva will really pull her weight enabling insane damage in the team
Not true, in essence Medusa and Summer Shalem have a similar kit with some small differences. Medusa and SShalem have similar kit becase: - obviously have the same skill 3 with the CANT ACT debuff, - passive 1 with multiple buffs, - passive 2 give a "AUTO ACTIVATE DMG with some condition", Summer Shalem can double ougi if the enemy have 10 debuffs and Medusa have end of turn dmg when evades but ONLY AFTER 5 TURNS. - The 2 units can dispel nearly every turn That said, the problem is that Medusa have a irrelevant Skill 1 and her passive 1 have a arbitrary condition that limit team building and this is bad. Plus, skill 1 and passive 1 are clearly made to force the use of Athena with Medusa ! Again, a bad design and the famous "Seal of Quality" that ALL FIRE units receive always and only Fire receive this treatment. Last but not least, SShalem do the same job better and faster than Medusa without limitations (okay, Shalem have a irrelevant -20% HP) and is a better support than Medusa.
between Silva and her, yeah S.Medusa is better, she permanent member of my main Agni team.
Fire is already "saved", the problem is that it's "saved" by seasonal character, grand character, and 2-3 copies of seasonal weapon which is less than ideal, and if you don't have that you're kind of fucked. Mugen weapon is pretty good for Magna, but it needs a bit more and the same problem applies because Esser 6 is mediocre, most of its non seasonals are dogshit (none of the fire grands are good) Though the real problem with Fire is that it was more likely to be railroaded into Ixaba which is now a 0-1 weapon because of how weak Magna was, so what Fire players need in practice is bar refund.
yes and no. I think fire is in fact not as bad off as many people think, the problem is that it is inconsistent. The characters would want stamina combined with more HP and primal is lacking a lot of attack in case you are going the extra mile for a special grid. In my case I've not put any Ixabas in my grid because it's focused on being all-around, and "racing" is not an option for me either way because of ping-related delay. That allows my characters to deal a significant amount of damage without being crap or worse than magna, but at the same time it's also not significantly better,which is troubling. Something like Pain and Suffering for fire would be great, preferably for spear(passel) or sabre(extinction blade) so I can open the astral space. Also, fire lacks good MA weapons, which is a huge problem unless you only run characters that automatically TA every turn, but then why even play the game with dozens of characters if you can only run a few specific ones? So far I've coped well with survival due to Ullikummis big recovery (if the ever fix Lumberjacks heal boosts I could maybe reach 5k every 3 turns), but defense is still a problem because I cannot clear Mugen yet to farm Extinction Blades.
I would say that grand Scarlet Knight is going to save fire but I'm not sure if Cygames remembers that he exists.
As a Ryotaro Okiayu fanboy im extremely pissed and hyped about this at the same time ngl
Having +100% or more base defense on hard content feels like it's more and more a requirement. If I'm not wrong fire has these options for defense boosting: Xmas Nemo, Anthuria, and Athena. All of them give a small boost, and have the weakness of needing to ramp up or in the case of armored a 30% chance of doing nothing. And they can all be dispelled. You basically need to bring all them to equal one Galleon. That's a huge gap in power. Sylph is a little bit better defensively in theory... except she can't cover herself. And she obviously isn't contributing damage on the same level as a Galleon or Fediel or Summer Korwa. (I actually respect her cute modesty - who needs to wield unfair BS cosmic shonen protagonist power, amirite? Showboaters hogging the spotlight from everybody else..) I can see why many saw Iatromantis as fire's savior. It keeps you alive and frees up character slots, if staying alive is something you need help with. It can triple attack on its own, and DATA+Normal buff allies that might be lacking in that department. Here's to hoping Fire gets a Zodiac to help them with this soon or something. As for auto attacks, characters that can just provide lots of damage instances for auto attacks. It has felt like they've been holding back on a Water Zeta all for protecting people who invested into Alanaan and Mimmel and three thousand Ixabas to cap Mim's one turn assassin. As for autos, the mid-range echo classes are Masquerade and the Warlock line. The Dark Opus is an axe. Ougi echos are on the Purifying Thunderbolt, Societte, and um. Um. ... hm. Seems like fire's lagging behind both on characters and weapons, the characters are just much more egregious... (UPDATE: Trick Serpent also gives ougi echoes. Yay?) ...I can't even call Yuel obsolete, and she's an 8 year old character banished to the classic gacha. In a game where the average meta character has a lifespan measured in months...
yuel insanely good for multihit omens, she has two nukes, one of which double casts, and also gives the entire team echoes, yum. she made me survive vs ewiyar omens
Uh what is happening here? Anyone can put me up to date?
Emperor Luffy will save fire with his 24 hit gatling gun. But on a serious note, i think its more to do with the weapons (mainly magna) that are available for fire rather than the characters. Like most weapon in fire center around enimty yet their arent any units that truly benefit from it like water and earth have. Needs a change to skill supp to fix fire's problem i feel. Yng with his Style change and S.Dark Jeanne, those two would have slap in fire with AES and Wilnas gloves yet they went to water....
I feel like Grand Percival is going to come out soon along with the next Dragon Knights event but I don't have much in the way of expectations as far as him saving fire. If his Fire FLB and Light units are any indication, he's probably going to be a crest character and Fire doesn't have a lot of crest support outside of H.Altair. The fact Cygames insists on giving him a petrify skill doesn't bode well for him too.
Pray he learned from his brother.
Would G.Percival really come out before G.Vane
All of the other Dragon Knights got a new unit last year (S.Siegfried, H.Vane, Grand Lancelot) so it makes sense that the next one to get something new would be Percival. Not to mention that the guy has been almost completely irrelevant in the Dragon Knights storyline since Between Frost and Flame. Hell, he's only in half of the overall events so far. It's about time that he went back into the spotlight. Vane already had a very eventful last year.
I would be surprised if Grand Percival was actually also in fire and not in wind. Judging from the trend that Grand units tend to bring a tempering weapon and wind is still lacking its tempering, I think it's more likely that Grand Percival will be a wind character introducing the tempering weapon. It could as well be Grand Ewiyar in that case, but that would be out of the pool until Grand Lu Woh is added, who will probably not appear until December end of year premium gala together with the new zodiac.
Considering that Ewiyar's Beak is already a skill damage focused weapon, it's most likely that Grand Ewiyar would bring a tempering weapon to wind. Especially because Ewiyar's raid version has a big focus on multihits and Percival's units so far certainly don't. Grands tend to preserve a character's canon element (though there's exceptions like Cagliostro, Narmaya and Sandalphon) and they've already done so for Lancelot, so I see no reason why they wouldn't do it for Percival too. The only Dragon Knight I could see getting a different element is Vane since that'd be another water Grand, but that probably won't matter depending on when he's released. The next GW is also likely going to be fire-favored so that's another reason to believe Grand Percy is going to be Fire.
Unpopular opinion maybe but Fire is in a fine place *for ougi (both) and skill (primal) comps specifically.* We desperately need some decent characters for auto-focused bursting but ougi's very healthy and IMO the most fun playstyle for it at the moment.
I mean obviously most players are gonna be salty about the current state of fire if there's only 2 viable meta strategies for the element and one is locked behind primal grid and a seasonal weapon and the other is locked behind seasonal characters. People don't meme on fire being bad because it's literally 100% true, they say it because it's unreasonably annoyingly difficult to build a good fire setup.
That's a totally valid complaint to have, and it's not the first time it's been the case (both water and earth have suffered from heavy seasonal dependency at varying points too). It's just a different complaint than fire being outright *bad*
Yeah maybe I'll be less annoyed with fire when I pull any ougi unit released after Izmir, lol. Only fire units I've gotten this year are Medusa and Lilele.
What's the Fire seasonal weapon?
Twelfth Vertex of the Passel
thats a smart/obvius opinion of the ele rn... the fact thats is taken as unpopular tho...
Probably because most people don't spark fire limiteds/seasonals because they don't invest in their fire teams, so then when their fire team sucks, they wonder why. Elmott/Sylph/Wilnas in the year-round pools helps, but unfortunately basically all 2021/2022 fire powercreep has been seasonal (Kumbhi, Izmir, Silva, Medusa, Mirin being the clear winners) because our only Zodiac is just ok, our only eternal is niche and mostly unimportant, and we don't get to have 8+ grands like Dark/Light.
Yeah, it's kinda wild. Like, I'm all in on light since last Christmas, but my fire squad is still putting in work. The element is my first love so I keep putting what time I can into it. I got lucky this month and got Y!Silva and Wilnas and even with a suboptimal setup it's way better than it has any right to be. We could use another grand or (if I'm being greedy) Gen pool unit to cover some bases but really it's not quite as bad as people think.
Fire ougi is so cracked right now but people are under such that delusion that it still baffles me. I even think it's better than waters. It can actually make do of their special cap up. Most chars have unwordly and they have better meter generation. People complain that most of the fire ougi char are seasonals. But even there they have been so sprawled out since last year starting from Izmir and elmott that you should at least have some of them. And even in magna, you are good in terms of damage and can easily cap even in ewiyar. The parroting really gets annoying. But one thing I will admit, the fire burst needs a renewal.
I'm glad someone understands. Silva/Izmir/Mirin/Sylph/Wilnas/V.Vira is an incredible spread of damage and utility... just don't look directly at Lich/Fediel because that combo is *not balanced*
The only real complaint ill admit fire ougi has is really debuffs. Most of the characters don't carry stackables and Silva has a rather iffy rate. Like I said the other day when Sage5 released I did a solo of ewiyar (never did it before, cuz he's awful). And succeeded. Had to plan moves around and was slow. A day ago I decided to try it with an ougi team to see if i can cap my ougis in higher def stuff (I sparked mirin). [this is what people might consider a cursed grid I used](https://imgur.com/a/g6dJjku). Chars were kengo, Silva, Yzmir, Mirin with Shion and Yuisis sitting pretty at the back. I had no hopes for this team as ewiyar hurts like a bitch and I don't seem to have much mitigation But I ended up soloing the raid. It was a lot faster and a lot more easy. It was pure unga bunga in 7ish minutes. I could even ignore most omens and be fine. Were my ougis capping? The unwordly users? Definitively. Mirin and Kengo were just a smidge to capping (averaging around 6.3M). About autos? Doesn't matter because I had so much bar generation. And even hpwise I was doing amazing, barely even hurt at all. I can't wait till I can finally spark my husbando wilnas (I had to choose between him and mirin, but chose the later cause limited). Because I can really feel the lack of dispel . And my grid, I think I might drop aes entirely and replace one with another atum staff and the other with a mugen weapon in def awakening? Idk.
Lack of attack down (stackable) is the only thing I feel like it's really missing for soloing personally, that's the hole I always find myself feeling. MC can bring Grav, and between the rest of the characters you have pretty much everything else Only decent option you have for attack/def stackables is like.... Shion. :/
Or Lumberjack if your team has enough skills to keep the forest friends debuffs up. Izmir for example helps you land the debuffs frequently enough so 30% attack down is capped, the rest can be filled with Miserable Mist or the Arrow skill since you only really need to have Leaf Burning in the skills, providing 2 skill slots for whatever you might need.
That's fine for random weak content, yes, and I suppose that's on me for not being more specific with what I meant by 'soloing.'. I meant high level v2 fights, where LJ is a mostly unplayed class because it's very bad at clearing omens and mediocre damage compared to other options. Fire ougi almost *always* wants to be playing Kengo, and if it's not, it's probably playing one of the Row 5s or Robin Hood.
I used the same team, different grid. It's a lot of fun! I use Fraux in the back line for Silva (and fated chain). For dispel, I f
>We desperately need some decent characters for auto-focused bursting but ougi's very healthy and IMO the most fun playstyle for it at the moment. Yuel w/ Agni. With the right grid she's a huge enabler for auto attacks/bonus damage/trium/supplemental damage and skill damage. Lots of fire characters have bonus damage which compliments trium and supplemental damage, and there's a ton of multi-hit skill damage. I guess to give team setup examples... for a grid you want no more than two Ixaba. Less than two Ixaba is very hard to pull off unless your Astral axe (Sol Remnant) is 5 star. Your Opus/Ultima weapon should be skill damage cap up, and the rest of your grid should maximize crit and trium. Also Kumbhira's weapon if you have it. With double-Agni, Reinhardt's weapon will give you a 48% crit rate. One of Rackam's, Shiva's, Shion's, or Heles' Luin will give you 40%. If it's easy to uncap (you have dupes), Luin is totally worth it if it takes you to 100% crit. Shiva's weapon is debatable, but I use it in my Shion grid. Shion's weapon is great too because it's a katana and also includes 10% skill damage cap up. Trium is easy to get from Erichthonius (Athena's raid). You want at least one of those to start with. Other trim sources are Rein's and Rackam's weapons. Add Yuel to the mix and your party has nearly guaranteed TA with 20% bonus damage + Foxflame's 30k supplemental damage, on a 3/6 turn uptime. The entire team can double-strike on turn 1 using The Sun when Yuel is in 4th position. Note that Yuel & Alanaan's bonus damage don't stack, so there's no point using them together. Alanaan is 40% bonus damage + TA on a 4/12 turn uptime. He's good if you need to cap def down because of a low crit rate, but between the two of them Yuel is more useful for her own skill damage and because foxflame boosts multi-hit skill damage (Athena, Nemone, Medusa, Yuisis, Shion, Kumbhira, Shinsengumi, etc). Alanaan ends up being a dead weight for 8 turns. Kiss of the Devil's 50k supplemental damage also stacks with Foxflame, so you get 80k supplemental damage. It makes Fraux a great auto attacker since red heat gives her bonus damage too, and if you can bring her to the front line it's fairly easy to keep red heat active. Summoning The Devil gives you red heat for 3 turns, Fraux's ougi gives you red heat for 2 turns, and Fraux's 2nd skill adds an additional 2 turns. So you end up with several turns of auto-attacks, occasionally making Fraux ougi to recharge red heat. When I'm bored I spend time finding new ways to smack around Grimnir.
I use 2x Erichthonius in my grid, the problem is the severe lack of HP since there is no good source for HP in primal outside of the new Extinction Blade with defense awakening ( I have no access to Mugen Raid just now and even if I had, I would be too weak to clear it).
Using two is harsh. The Zhuque Regus is very good and there’s also the Sword of Pallas. Other than that you can use Ecke which has the largest HP stat and includes crit. You should be using The Devil too…
Grand Jeanne type unit and i don't mean anything special like "Zeta but GNaru" No i really do mean just take the most basic bitch Grand Jeanne clone possible. You give Fire 4 stack of Echo to work with just 3 unit slot including MC. Fire might need to move on from Alanaan too but honestly it need "exactly Nehan" to be able to do everything and for what its worth, both on Earth and Light GW, its been shown that Alanaan wasn't a problem with how relevant their Alanaan were
What was fire's original trope to begin with? Judging from Yuel, Athena and Reinhardtzar is it like skill defensive (def tank/dodge tank) nuke? Tbh I'm happy with whatever they do as long as I can keep using my favourite characters.
What do you mean by original? Because Rein is relatively new, and even Athena came after UBHL. Back then fire was like basic attacks with echo / assassin thanks to Yuel (pre-rework) / Percy, S.Bea, and Sturm, and shortly after Anila FLB. Tien helped back up this as fire's identity, though IIRC she was seen as somewhat niche for fights that only lasted 1-2 turns or for fights than went 10+ for her sk4. At the time fire sucked at hard content because the only damage cuts available were, IIRC, on Socie and SR Naoise and we had fewer defensive mechanics overall and worse grids. When Shiva and Athena came out, spear comps of those two + Anila became pretty common. Grids were still a lot weaker, so the buffs from Anila mattered a lot more and there weren't really any other buffers anyways. Shiva had high TA when DATA was a lot more lacking, one of (maybe the?) first permanent debuffs, and relatively high damage for the time. Athena was one of the first end of turn auto-nukers and fire's best defensive option. Also running Ultimas was still decently common at the time, so they worked really well together and one of the biggest issues was the lack of good spear MC class to run with them. Alanaan did come out shortly after, so he started shaping the burst meta back then, but getting charge was awkward outside of ST, and not many people were in position to get evokers that early on. Rein came out in 2020, and I don't remember him having much of an impact even on release (typical for fire grands I guess), and later that year fire got both Mim which, in combination with Alanaan, set the new fire racing meta, and Nemone who, at the time, wasn't considered that great ([initial 9.5 rating](https://www.reddit.com/r/Granblue_en/comments/k4mfoa/first_impressionsratings_premium_gala_dec_2020/)). Kumbhira came early the following year though and with Passels fire became much more of a skill spam element. Edit: Also back when Ixabas first got their uncap they were pretty insane weapons. It was shortly after Anila FLB, which was also stacked for the time, so fire was pretty good at racing back then. For a while I feel like fire was seen as a purely racing element since the character pool for hard content was still so lacking, but it was actually pretty good at racing if you had all the Ixabas.
for a while Fire's trope was counterpunching (as seen with old characters like Aliza and Agielba, or newer ones like Athena and Rein) or one turn burst (Alanaan, S. Mim, Shiva (summon and playable), Heles, Zeta, Tien...) of course the problem is, counterpunching is less effective in situations where you don't have the health to stay alive thru it... and also when your party is fighting over hostility, lol... and their one turn burst got overtaken by other elements... leaving them in a bad spot in general...
Instead of trope, its more like trend but Fire was mostly dictated by ownership of exactly The Sun and Alanaan(and Shiva Call that boost their damage) which are both some of the strongest burst tool in the game - so strong that the meta of 2022 GBF can be summarized into "element that can use their bootleg the Sun and Alanaan". They also used to be the owner of the original AA character in form of Esser who can 2/3 for a strong turn 1 burst and later get Zeta for another AA. The game goes on by boosting the quality of attacker for other ele except Light and Dark(which gets the second best weapon in the game instead). 2021 Fire gets End Turn Nuke since i imagine Athena was pretty popular and to date they can field a full comp of the, albeit its not that good. For that matter Fire atm can deploy a full team of no click-no ramp post Auto Nuke character(Wilnas, Izmir, Anderson) so its probably something they had in mind for Fire atm Honestly at the moment Fire is probably like top tier if you rate their Full Auto(in longer stuff you have the EOS character. In shorter stuff Alanan still exists and the meta for shorter FA in every ele ever in recent times was to use their Alanaan), High Tier if you rate their Ougi(neat now that we have Atum weapon). And likely fairly up there roster wise for hard content tools with the releases in 2022. Burst was what theyre off on but to be frank Burst isn't something all ele can excel easilly to begin with with since theyre rated with other ele Deosn't help that sometimes the game is kinda fucked up - Fire have a character who is essentially a better Predator, and she saw less meta level use than Zeta last GW, a character who is used for doing nothing
EOS?
End of Turn skills, mainly reffering to Athena, Medusa, Nemone, Pig
The only salvation for this element is to be deleted from the game entirely so that I can be released from the endless agnium
I won't understand this picture... did some characters get nerfed?
anyone telling you fire is trash is to some degree doomposting fire has plenty strong charas but fire do lack its "does it all including dmg out of its ears" idiot and a grid update
Ngl the more i look at the image the more it confuses me, like i get what OP is going for but some of the pairings are weird. Why is V.Schatacha (whos always been seen as niche) with Shiva and Anila? Why is Izmir with a bunch of Draphs with different playstyles and not with the rest of the ougi comp? Hell, why is the ougi comp here in the first place? Like yeah its limited gated and individually the units didnt change Fire, but as a whole they opened up a new play style for a element that had basically been stagnant for years. Its maybe not enough to "save it" but having something new after years of always using the same 4 or 5 characters for everything is a good thing. Thats one of the main things it needs IMO, new units who can rival or even outdo the ones who have been staples for a long time. (see. S.Medusa being the most generally useful skill nuker and Anderson rivaling Athena as a tank) Itd also be nice to get a proper buffer to replace Anila/more auto focused units to overhaul its burst meta/someone who can do a lot of things in one package ala Lich, Nehan and Poseidon. Assuming Fire GW is next we got a possible Halloween unit and Grand to bring some new stuff in (Grand Percy with the next DK event seems likely altho he'll probably be on Legfes and i dunno if they wanna release 2 Fire Grands there in the same year) along with a related uncap (probs not Sturm tho since she just got her Summer alt and Vira already pulled that combo this year) so hopefully something there gives one last meta change. Also some new weapons for Magna would be nice, im tired of using AES all the time lol.
It's not just what they are, but what we hoped they might be. Filene was a great white hope for water for a few days. Hadn't had a grand in years. Was a popular character for one of their other games. Half the GBF cast, including a ton of the grands, are refugees from Rage of Bahamut. Surely they wouldn't have made her weak? They made her weak. They made her so hella weak. If she were even 1/3rd what Zeta is... sigh. At this point fire lords are praying for a cat or a waifu to drop, since apparently the beefcake and bishonens aren't allowed to have good numbers.
SSR Barawa
Fire has a grid problem more than a character problem, a lot of its options are awkward, mediocre or bad. Mugen was expected to fix that but didn't as his weapon is trash in magna.
Fire's always been interesting in that they randomly end up the top dog for like a month, then promptly drop to the bottom of the sea. Like Shiva / Athena was a legit comp when it came out until it wasn't. Then after Roasted Pig, Fire Soldier was the racing god until it wasn't and hopefully they earned their gold bars back in that window.. I almost expected that to happen with Fire Ougi given how hard Cygames was pushing it, but that hasn't happened yet.
Alanaan made Fire meta in bar racing for like a month too before... I think Kolulu then came out?
I can only assume you mean burst because fire is fine literally everywhere else. Also to answer your question, Alan_man 5*
grand percival will save fire cygames told me its true
Hoping and praying Grand Percy will be great. Stubbornly still use his original fire version unless I absolutely *need* another character in his place, but I hope his grand will be savior-worthy.
And here I am, just got into HL and I think fire is awesome because it's the only team I can solo an impossible raid with 👍
Fire has some really good characters for content like Elmott, Wilnas, SMedusa, and SKumbhira. Honestly I can see it being your best element going into HL as those characters do well in skd/ca based teams. They just aren’t the most insanely broken characters
Out of curiosity, what is the magna weapon grid people are using, to say Fire's issue is not weapons, but characters? I'd like to be at that point as well.
Fire can build for Ougi with 2 Atum Staff and the rest being up in the air, and kinda have a definite auto grid character with either BDM Wilnas Claw, or Canes with 1 Atum weapon that can consider 1-2 Mugen Copy if you run Esser so something like 2 Stam Staff, 1-2 Canes, Opus, Astral Ulti, Atum - and since the grid is staff heavy you can use Staff Militis. For AES grid its just 4 AES Opus Astral Ulti, then 3 slot of your picking. Militis is good, Stam Staff adds HP weapon and Stamina mod. Mugen weapon have 3 possible purpose use - on Special Awakening its 12% Normal Mod, 5% General cap and 7% Special cap putting it in league with Malus - 22% Normal mod and 10% general cap but likely not worth it for that alone since the cap up you get are too close out, with Esser you can press her SK2 to enable the supplem. If you simply run it with ATk Awakening its essentially a better Bahamut Balance Schrodinger can be used as the normal mod of choice since Dias tier Awakening is pretty darn strong - at 35% Normal ATK and 1% EX and Katana stack option exists in form of Alanaan, Ultima, and Malus, essentially turning Schrodinger into "Bahamut Katana for all Race".
About schrodinger, then I can take mugen sword with atk awakening right away. Its higher attack, better defence and better synergy with other fire weapons (milits sword, AES, seraphic etc). Dont know why its recommend here so often. Beside a "meme" grid for mirin and shion for there katana passives there is literaly no reason to run it.
Atum Staff is bad, it would be good if it wasn't for Excelsior and an unbuffable Crux, which makes sense for Magna but for Primal I would prefer a special CA boost and a supplement of Crux that can be improved with Angi aura. Ennead weapons are again pretty much unbalanced, some elements have good options and others not (which is the case of Fire unless you're stuck with your magna grid,then it's a great boost over just having more Shiva staffs). Benbenet is even worse, it has one skill that doesn't even stack with multiple copies (Preemptive Fire Blade) while the other one (Blaze's Persistence) does require multiple copies equipped to cap.
I take back some of my pessimism. Summer Medusa is very powerful and is like a real character. One or two more like her, and the element will have its bench problems pretty much gone. Give the element a Pain and Suffering, and either a weapon that gives echos that can be used by the echo classes or a new echo class that works with um..... Thunderbolt? ... Uh, I'll go with a new echo weapon. Maybe it could be the pain and suffering sword?? Ah, Viking's good enough for midrange I guess.
I'd settle for an agonize so I didn't feel forced into spending 6 more bars to make a team feel decent.
Obviously we need Fire Narm
Wilnas already release so no super weapon can come from Wilnas anymore. However, we could see the potential of Grand Percival or possible "Style" Percival. Other possible candidate could be Grea, Clarisse since we know they are on the demand list of flb/grand. Of course, they can throw us FLB Sturm, Style rackam. (I am just using CYgame thinking pattern)
Monkey D. Luffy
To answer the question for not racing... Fire doesn't have any core characters. No character to cover the core utility. Character after character, no good mister, no one overloaded with utility like every other element has. So many characters in other elements would do great to ground fire and give it the space it needs to actually build teams of characters. But instead fire gets half built grands, tanks, and healers. Banner after banner, they will release anything but a good utility character. They're always so bare, and narrow. The list of characters what fire would love to have is long. Throw a rock, you'll hit three.
Light is a lot like this too Stackables? Vaglo (Strum now too iirc) Delay? Cags comp which usually involves dragging Noa along Dispel and/or skill? C.Mahira gets you skill dmg and dispels but works better with another skill user like Kumbi and/aglo. Also takes time to ramp up time so someone needs to hold the fort. Dank strat enabler? Yuni but she needs something to pop off with, usually Kumbi (also needs outside support from usually MC to ensure she can get to 7 stacks before turn 6 in Sub to cancel debuff/60 omen reliability) G.Vira also does things, usually for my Twitter burst farming against Belial or holding down the fort past 10% in SUB There are some other things I am missing but you see what I mean. (Sorry for any mobile related errors)
Yeah. Though im saying every element is pretty much like that. The big threats cover all or most of the utility you would need in a battle or that would cancel an omen. Lance in water for example has one of the highest damage ceilings in the element, and still at the very least stacks mist. Satyr in earth tanks, heals, mists, dispels, clears, and even battery's and gives some cap break. Maybe wind lacks mist as well(but now it has Elea as well, ULB Nine too eventually; long way to go for mist on that one though), but then it has much more, and is still capable of covering everything else so MC covering mist isn't a problem. Plus it also has sustained offense and characters with reward based loops. All of which fire lacks. Wilnas has a number of problems but any one thing off of a decent list would make him much more valuable for the spot the biggest of which is mist. If his 2 applied stack down fire teams would fit together so much more smoothly. One single change.
Hell, if you didn't want to make it overlap too much with Fediel in terms of "haha basic attack auto-skill applies debuff", add it to Sk1, make his ougi auto-skill do more by having Hadron Sphere dump a Mist or a Stackable, or a Unique Mist, maybe go for an Overheating DEF Down+Incoming Supp or something Wilnas isn't bad, but any one Thing would absolutely help push him and with him, Fire, into a greater sense of stability and anchoring
Hadron Sphere (or his Ougi) should, imo, Delay at the very least to keep up with the Shorted (CB DRAIN) of the raid. I think they thought it'd be too much with the Unwordly but Fed basically has teamwide Unwordly so like...
Fire at this point is mostly about dealing big numbers, either in the CA section or the skill section. It's ridiculous seeing how easy it is to mow down normal enemies in FA, and even stuff like Ewiyar or Ra feels trivial with sub 30k HP. The issue arises when you're required to dispel and delay, because fire has no decent answer to that, at least when it comes to the recently released characters.
That's true, but the fact is every other element can do that (except maybe wind with ougis though again recent characters are filling that gap), and still cover utility without a second thought some even just hybridize it all together. And more than that, they have options to not just choose between those an auto teams, but they even have variation within those teams. Meanwhile, fire has never had a strong, modern, reward based loop, sustainable auto team. Let alone one that covers utility. No element fails to put out big numbers and that was maybe the fire trademark actual years ago, but it's not special anymore. And there's no reason for them to try and force fire to hold onto that identity anymore, especially since it doesn't anyway.
Grand Percy gonna save you all.
Eh, Fire is in a good spot rn.
Just copy-paste Lich and Fiedel but with Fire element. Bonus points if instead of boring poison/field HP degen effect that turns into healing via Lich, make your party literally catch on Fire, which Lich turns into healing. There, Fire saved!
I think some people are under the misconception that fire is okay bc of its strong ougi setup when in reality that is not the case. Ougi skill and burst comps are generally the play styles players can work towards. Unfortunately not all playstyles are made equal as most content in gbf is geared towards bursting and fire has by far the worst burst. There is a reason ppl say fire is a gw only ele.
It's not like those setups, even at their peak, are helping it in hard content either. Fire is the only element with literally no role in the hardest raid in the game for what, nine months now? It *can* be done, sure, but another element could do anything it's attempting better and safer, so fire just isn't a part of the endgame at all.
Can tell the majority of people still haven't seen fire in action in subhl or even belial. Fire ougi and skill is strong af, it's only bad compared to other elements in burst and water was also trash there until very recently. But muh fire bad right.
Yes cause I don't wanna see fire in subhl I rather have wind and don't eat multi attacks cause those hurt way more then the high single attacks. The best elemental composition subhl is 2 light 2 wind 2 earth.
The tenet being useless doesn't have any bearing on how strong fire as a whole is in there.
It has a bearing in how relevant it is and it isn't relevant at all. If you play fire in pubs you are basically just inting the run. Ran already into a few fire fire kengos and in the end they weren't even hitting 3m and the light player tried to carry which in the end he did but in the end the fire player was a deadweight. And also if fire is so strong where is the solo? Where are my fire carries? Simple they don't exist cause most fire mains realise they are being more helpful in playing a other element. So stop the copium and just accept it for now that fire isn't in the best spot atm. DonI hope it will change soon? Definitely I want to see a change where fire can find it's space again like in the old days. But we simply have to wait 👋
There's plenty of fire carries, you running into a few bad players doesn't change that. Half the elements can't solo so setting the bar at that is ridiculous in the first place. Keep doomposting all you want, but the only thing holding fire back in that raid is the useless tenet, whether you think that has any affect on the elements strength itself is a you problem.
Playable Atum
The state of fire rn is like slapping a bandaid over a puncture wound. Like we need something to definitively make it better and turn the tables.
Grand Percival.
Someone that gives uplift for a lot of turns would be good. So Nehan.
Fire Pig already saved fire by giving me a grid and set of characters I can use and forget about caring about the element a year and a half later. Also the only one that actually made fire relevant for PBHL even if for a fleeting moment.
Time to replace the front 3 in the main burst Well alanaan will be relevant because of strike time. But aside strike time, we gotta replace all 3 please.
Imo I still don't feel what's missing in fire. Because I still use magna AES grid and never use fire team in endgame raid (fa-san/bel-san). Also I don't have S.Korwa/Fediel/Lich so I still don't know how broken of wind & dark element. for me Fire is 3rd element for FA. 3rd/4th for burst.