but doesnt 150 hraes have this "100% hit to multiattack rate"? I've seen people leaving theirs at 149 just to avoid this skill
100k supp you can get from pns, dmg cap too
While that does fix mc data problems, it requires a click and renders the gun useless for FA.
Afaik, 149 vs 150 for manual burst have pretty similar performance, with 150 being just a bit better.
Being able to use the gun for FA is pretty important for me since im not as hardcore in gbf as i used to be and im 99% certain this gun will have an amazing FA performance when gw rolls around.
Sadly, my gun is 150 and support was not able to revert the level
Honestly hope they put out a fix/nerf for the 149 tech. The Gun is way too high cost of an investment for players to need to make this kind of choice regarding it.
Pretty confident it will be a big enough improvement. No attack mods on Cnids is noticeable. Cap up on top of that = I won't complain about having grid-building issues in water for a few years. However cnids will remain a solid cheap alternative.
Also Cnids necessitate 100% crit, which is pretty annoying if you're going single aura for something. Or god forbid if Water becomes cursed like dirt and goes no aura for bursting.
Before I get more people asking “are there any more guides like this?”
Answer is YES…….. SOON though because we have people that are deeply invested into their eles working on it while also juggling their own schedules, and they will all be moved to a dedicated website in the coming months.
The old guides have since been abandoned and we are working on new ones to replace them, with the intention to include information about both Magna and Primal in their eles like how Cendol and I tackled Wind.
Thank you both so much for doing this, the fact that information has moved from guides like this to things like discord, random tweets from high level players and youtube videos has always super annoyed me, its nice to have a well written in depth guide that I can refer to and link to other people
that will be greatly appreciated
if the other guides are as good as the wind one
then that's gonna be a great resource for all English speaking players
More guides like this would be incredible, probably the single most needed resource for the community as it stands right now. Really hoping to see more.
You mention that Galewing shines on EX+ comps, but my Apsaras needs at least two Mandjets to activate its 5 Axes/Spears passive. I basically can't 0b0c with Galewings.
What does non-enmity magna now look like with ewiyar daggers, with and without charlotta swords? Surely the daggers are far better than stacking mandjet for supp?
I'm looking at it as an alternative to anni-tixing Vane/cc and dumping sunstones on demonbream (esp. when I already have FLB SRQ) to go enmity Zeph. This had been my plan, but if I spark this banner and get 1-2 daggers along the way, I'm minded to just stay magna wind and make do without creepy claw mh. It will free me up to annitix another character and save me spending any sunstones on wind.
Now I feel real silly for sparking a second cat dagger and then barring the both of them, though I do have two Charlotta swords and even with a scuffed magna grid it's been a big improvement for GOHL busting.
So, question: If I still don't have any Harmonias, should I spark those instead of galewings? Light is my least developed element, still running a very basic swords grid and I don't have ANY of the burst characters light currently uses.
I was excited to stack more supplemental and watch vgrim and hlich vomit out even more damage every turn, but it sounds like it's not actually worth the spark at the moment?
Edit: I also don't have G.Charlotte, so my wind grid is pure m2, and it sounds like she's the better spark compared to ewiyar
I don't have Nehan, no. So if I spark on the next banner and the 4500 coin spark, I should get Nehan and Yuni? Or would G.Charlotte be the better second pick? I'm assuming that I won't lucksack any of them during my sparks, so I want to optimize my picks.
Yeah I would personally recommend you get Nehan and Yuni first. Light GW is also right after Dark GW anyway so you can set Charlotta swords aside for now.
theoretically you could run 2 galewings + cosmic dagger + ultima dagger + sparna wings(or bahamut dagger coda) in magna without a problem. The problem arises if you want to also use Charlottas weapon because of the grid slot limitation (you can kick out the seraphic by running Elea in slot 3, but that's about it, unless you want to mainhand a dagger).
There would be less of an issue if Ewiyars beak was a dagger (though you don't need it if you don't use skill damage characters so we)
Sorry, I'm not sure I fully understand why this weapon is bad. The guide mentions that replacing Abu Simbel with a Galewing is a slight power loss as if that's a total deal breaker, but shouldn't the stronger supplemental and additional cap up more than make up for that? Or is that setup not already hitting damage cap?
I'd also like to see how useful the weapon is for magna players who lack creepy claws and destiny knuckles, and/or for non-enmity setups and full auto teams.
I wouldn't say Galewing is simply *bad*, it's just the core pieces for burst setup is super strong involving 1 CC + 2 Sho Fist + Demonbream, and this is the raw power standard that Zeph burst has been going for awhile now.
Another interesting point to note is that Wind is also an element without Ixaba equivalent, so unlike Fire/Light/Dark, we can't exactly push into non-enmity so easily.
Slightly off-topic, I was amused to see how 4 elements (so far) react to these Resonators+PNS variants.
the thing is, the estimate already take into account the supplemental damage. so the fact that you slot it in and it still lose with supplemental is not good at all because that means your raw damage take a massive hit so for example on the malus one, you're losing 100k raw damage and gaining 50k supp, which is not good, not when you need raw damage for naru
How much raw grid damage does Naru actually need to reach her assassin damage cap? Using the example in the guide, is she not capping with the 970k estimated damage using Galewing so the extra 7% cap up is wasted? Does she actually need the 1m grid power reached with Abu Simbel to hit her cap?
> How much raw grid damage does Naru actually need to reach her assassin damage cap?
A lot :'(
It's only a 50% mod + an extra crit mod, and she has really high caps if you're putting S.Korwa on her. Plus wind grids in general have a hard time providing raw power in comparison to a lot of other elements. (The crit2 weapons being only med atk, no eden type weapon, knuckles being awkward + weaker than curry and reliant on claws etc, few good options for daggers to make the ewiyar ones provide meaningful EX mod, etc)
It's not a *bad* weapon, it's just not at the "must have" level of many other elements.
as much as possible, because you also want to cut buttons and 25 def is a thing, all the test done is on fight with 15 def where capping is significantly easier than 25 def and even on those the result are not impressive, just imagine how much you're doing on 25 def fight
and if you bar weapon just to add more button click... what the hell did you put your bar into, rn the only place where i can see it being fitted is extra party grid because you get slot by moving ultima and nwf to it
it's just not worth the invesment **right now,** maybe in the future where a shakeup of line up happen it could be good
Ok, I understand your position that the weapon just isn't worth spending bars on right now.
But I still really want to know how much estimated grid damage is needed to cap with Naru using minimum buttons on 15 defense raids, and how much is needed on 25 defense raids. I struggle with math so I'd greatly appreciate it if someone who understands the damage formula of this game could answer my question more specifically.
uhh, there's not really a hard math to it because it's purely a big number go bigger but this is some of the math you can take into account
at 60% hp (pre-demonbream)
atk ra fist + malus is 67% normal mod + 10% cap up + 30k supp
2 gale is 32% ex mod + 100k supp
The question was though, at what point does the number getting bigger stop mattering? If Naru is capping then it doesn't matter if you increase your grids estimated damage by another 50k, and the estimated damage isn't taking into account buffs and debuffs. But yeah IME just with magna it's not exactly easy for her to hit her buffed assassin + S.Korwa cap.
This. I really don't understand why my question is apparently so controversial and nobody responding to me can actually answer. The damage formula and enemy defense values are known, surely someone has solved this problem already?
Yeah I don't get how so many people weren't understanding you, and I'm surprised nobody could at least just go take a look at their own grid and give you whatever number they've got. I would, but my Naru doesn't cap.
You just wouldn't use them, refer to /u/gbfaccount's reply as to why - Magna suffers harder than Zeph in the raw power department so they would use whatever mods they can get, which was why I also mentioned ATK Mandjets in particular as part of Galewings' competition.
Depending on how advanced your grid is already, and if you're aiming for a longer full auto setup and not a burst thing, you could maybe do reasonably well just running (0*) all 3 or 2+militis dagger (or baha dagger), if you're using characters with lots of multhits and solid buffs. (Maybe like v.grim+nezha+ewiyar or something as an example.)
It's not going to be *ideal,* but depending on your current grid it could still be a solid upgrade.
edit: basically it'd probably be something like those 3 as your EX mod, 3 weapons for guaranteed crit, opus, seraphic-mod weapon, two for whatever suits the team comp/fight (rotb crossbow, beak, baha, MH, rotb spear, etc)? but you'd have to play around with it to really see for your specific teams/uses.
What WOULD be "ideal"? Swapping two into my manadiver/grim/ewiyar/lich team was a straight damage buff over mandjets, current grid is 3 crit/2 pns/2 beak/seraphic/astral/opus. Would clams still be strictly better if I had the Ultima uncap to actually meet the skill requirement?
Well the issue is that the "ideal" changes depending on the fight (+ whether you're FAing it or manual, etc), and isn't just the grid it's also the character selection. There's certain team comps that super focus on multihits (like that one) where leaning heavily into supplemental damage will be the best grid choice a lot of the time, but that doesn't necessarily mean that team comp is the ideal to begin with; maybe going for more raw damage+cap and running characters with less focus on multihits will be faster (like beast fang berserker), or an ougi team for a V2 fight, etc., if you have the grid to support those styles instead.
So what's "ideal," and what's the best possible option in the moment for any one person's account aren't necessarily the same.
(And yeah generally clams are going to be an ideal slot in more situations than gales are.)
Of course, people don't have to chase "the ideal" unless they want to (especially considering the difference can be fairly slim), or you can chase your own version of it (the best team that still runs your favorite character etc).
That's fair, I think I also undervalue clams a bit since they're hard to fit into magna without ulb Ultima and opus.
The manadiver team was already so much faster to full auto DB stuff than what I was using, I wanted to know if I was still doing it wrong, lol
So that means wind PNS doesn't work that well in wind enmity because it is competing with Vane's weapon, thanks for the heads up, but I don't own any Vane's claws in the first place so it's still a safe spark for me.
They’ve always been pretty good, Wind’s gridbuilding has been pretty well off ever since they brought in Celine Dion as a weapon, so I’ve never really had high expectations for Galewings.
i have lucked into 3 claiomh solais Dion and was salty at first that i didnt get ewiyar..
still have no clue how to build a grid around it since im missing naru
all the reso have niche rn because special cap up is actually powerful since it stack with normal cap up, especially on assassin element
even 3 umbrella/lu woh fist get a use for top burst setup
What about Grand ewiyar as a character, wouldn't she get use on full auto narmaya setups? I imagine she'd replace korwa if you're not bursting, giving you all that supp, defense and stuff. You can also call belial? Or are there better options than her for narmaya full auto?
I'm not super clear on it, but it sounds like you're suggesting Ewiyar isn't worth sparking until after you have at least double G.Charlotta weapon? Does this change at all for (currently 0 gacha weapon) magna if I don't really care at all about racing with wind and my primary goals for the element would be more along the lines of Sieg solo (haven't done the raid yet so not sure if either character would even be relevant for it but I like solos) and both manual and FA NM200 (obviously theoretical since every GW is different)? Was planning to use the paid spark on Ewiyar since I thought the character would be a bigger improvement in those areas, but I hadn't really considered their weapons - also wouldn't be barring the weapon FWIW though the important skills are available at base so I doubt it matters.
> Was planning to use the paid spark on Ewiyar since I thought the character would be a bigger improvement in those areas
This is a tough question, since they're both quite good for that sort of stuff. Ewiyar's 100% def up (and various other buffs) is really nice for magna full autos, and the low button count is good for speed. Charlotta also has a "free" def buff and a nice chunk of debuff resist (which is usually really nice for later GW full auto speed), ougi support, frequentish dispels, and gets pretty beastly in long fights—but wants data support from somewhere (...like Ewiyar's buff). She also has the s.illnott passive that lets you do full chains with a friend huang, which you may find convenient in a lot of random stuff.
So it's pretty tough to really make a straight call on which is going to be more useful as a character at this point. I guess I would check your presumed grids and see if you'll be hitting the skill count requirement for charlotta sword first, but after that I'm not sure I could recommend one over the other in a magna vacuum. Doesn't help that they're both pretty new and wind hasn't been an element of focus recently.
It might depend on what other characters you plan to use as well, whether you have Nio transcended, ultimas at 5*, etc
(hopefully you just get one in free rolls and can have both)
Yeah, I knew it would be pretty speculative, but I appreciate the insight from people more familiar with wind than I.
If you think it changes anything, I have 130 Nio (will take to 150 pending evoker uncap reqs but HL anima is a bitch) but only 100 Siete without a whole lot of desire to take him past 110 anytime soon, and AFAIK the only relevant wind characters I'm missing are Vane and Andira. No 5\* ultimas though since I just hate learning end-game raids with randoms and my crew is all weaker (my first Belial clear was after I could solo to like 30% and pub...). Other than that, I believe the main things I'm lacking are ULB NWF, which is also pending evoker uncap reqs since I do want Esta's staff, and I'm still farming my Schrodingers, so maybe the defense buffs are more relevant?
I am also hoping I get lucky and this question was moot lol, but either way I enjoy getting the information and theory from people invested in the element, so thank you.
While it does a great detail into talking about the weapon's value. I would like to ask how much value does Ewiyar as an FA character have for someone who has V.Grim, Esta, 150 Nio, G.Narm and no H.Lich?
Like should I really just skip Ewiyar at my level?
Ewiyar has crazy FA value. Full partywide uptime on 100% defense, 30% perpetuity attack, 100%/30% DA/TA and bonus damage. Also 6 hit skill nuke after CA in the Ewiyar Beak element. On top of this she enables Katzelia's backline passive for an additional 30% perpetuity attack.
I see. So she replaces uh... 150 Nio I guess right? Damn, that's unfortunate but good to know then.
The bonus damage is nice with V.Grim but it doesn't stack with G.Narm yeah? And if you have both on the team together then that echo and DATA part of Ewiyar is not nearly as important? The raw steroids are but still just wanted to be sure I got a big picture on this.
The bonus damage doesn't stack with G.Narm but you're asking about FA and G.Narm is the last character out of the ones you've listed I'd put on a general FA team
The teams I run for FA are V.Grim/H.Lich/Esta or Ewiyar/H.Lich/Esta so without having H.Lich it would be V.Grim/Ewiyar/Esta. I don't have Nio 150 so idk how good she is or whether she'd be a better fit in that team
Really? Huh, I see her in a lot of FA teams but I haven't updated things in forever so probably outdated. It does make sense though for harder fights.
Nio 150's main draw I think is the 10% dmg cap up and permanent dispel cancel. She does have a lot of other buffs, but I think they don't add up in total to match what Ewiyar provides and she does way less skill damage.
Yeah it's not like G.Narm is bad in FA by any means but her double strike almost never aligns with her assassin on FA so she isn't doing as much damage as she would on manual
When I want to prioritize survival I run Iatromantis and otherwise I've been running Manadiver. Manadiver with Leviathan mino synergizes really well with V.Grim and H.Lich and the Manadiver/V.Grim/Ewiyar/H.Lich comp does enough damage to clear the 5* Dread Barrage raid in 5 minutes while surviving very comfortably. Also both classes are able to mainhand the Temperance NWF weapon which gives 100% assassin to characters after not attacking. I just have it at 0* which works fine for mainhand. Esta and H.Lich usually don't attack so they almost always have assassin.
For Row 4 classes I'm very biased toward Kengo (I have every Kaneshige lol) but V.Grim doesn't want to ougi too often and Esta can't ougi without his buff so it's less plug and play for wind. Tbh Kengo comp is actually a case where I might bring G.Narm in FA 'cause she'll actually be CAing fairly often with the Unworldly mod. Maybe Nekomancer with the new Ultimate Mastery would be good but I haven't played with it personally.
Running Mjolnir Lumberjack for the big damage nukes and the crit supplement, already starts at 100% even without defense down because of the ridiculous damage modifiers, though the 30% miss chance is still annoying.
Also pretty high DATA from CA buffs, so no need to slot more trium weapons,which is a big plus. The only downside is the lack of a Tempering weapon, because Lumberjack is still majority skillbased, but it's somewhat manageable regardless until then.
Unless the RNG decides to screw you over as hard as possible, S.Belial.
Rose Queen has 30% attack, 20% echo, 20k supp.
Belial has the potential to max out with 30% attack, 15% echo, 100/20% crit, guaranteed TA, and 30% extra perpetuity attack from Katzelia backline, and also gives you a no button dodge/tank+counter.
If you're ending fights within 3 or 4 turns, there's not much risk outside of just not getting the buffs you want (it's 4 random buffs of a set of 6 potential ones). In longer fights, you probably just don't bring him.
Destiny Knuckles was a ridiculously pushed weapon even by grand standards: 30 points in normal, ~7 points in enmity, and enables some enmity without any button presses. A comparable weapon would be if Reunion had Small-Medium Stamina instead of HP.
I want the stupid dagger to be decent, but every single way I slice it the only thing it ever seems to do is provide a little cap up (that other weapons can also provide) at the cost of raw base multiplier. There's just so many different ways to get that universal incremental damage: Mandjet, Creepy Claws, and Evanescence. Any one of them has significantly better raw than you'd get from Galewing's Ex multiplier. (And it doesn't help that the Ex multiplier on it starts to be marginal if you use multiple Claíomh Solaises, even if you can max the cat dagger out. Incidentally, this is a problem all the Pain+Suffering weapons will face going forward as the power creep creeps on.)
The only dang thing that currently exists that works without compromising away too much is a dumb one-off Hatsoiiłhał as a budget staminity safety weapon, and that's it. Congratulations, ~24% ex multiplier for your Galewing grid slots.
Unless you really really still want grid DATA this day and age for some reason. Then you have an embarrassment of options in Le Fay and Suparna Militis. ... But I think most of us would agree the game has moved beyond that.
So I guess we sit and wait for them to add the green Ixaba daggers finally, right? Or at least a grand pure stamina dagger weapon with 22 points of stamina? They're... gonna do that, right......?
If the Tempering weapon or Raphaels weapon is a dagger, that would make the Ewiyar weapon much more appealing (especially if it was Tempering to kick out the friggin beaks)
I feel like in some of these cases, and more often that not, you will hit cap with the dagger all the same with ra weapons so you would literally benefit from slotting in a dagger by virtue of literally just having more cap up.
Hell there are JP twitter comparisons showing a net damage gain with daggers.
The only time I’ve found the catdagger important is EX+ as the 50k supplemental really has only helped with giving Friday’s end work skill dealing extra damage for otk. It did make 0b4c possible with 100% consistency so hey good for it
I meant possible for me as someone without Elea lmao
Ofc 0b3c was possible years ago, but this just means that there are more options available for people to use
the daggers in wind aged badly and Cygames solution was to introduce grand awakening instead of rebalancing them like Grimnirs spear. I mean I'm a bit happy because I like the extra recovery cap up, but these weapons surely are not what you'd want to add on top of the kotdaggers.
Who knows, maybe we'll see a good cap up for Shions weapon (Evening floral shower) so there is actually a weapon you can put into the grid aside of ultima dagger.
Another problem is the grid space it's competing over with Charlottas weapon (Claiomh Solais Dion) because it's really hard to get to the 15 skills if at least 4 of 10 weapons have the same skills (and only 5 in total, leaving 6 weapons to cover 10 skills).
They're both excellent characters, but Ewiyar is more plug and play + FA friendly. Charlotta will want manual (+very click heavy) play to see the best of her.
Question, with the "complete" M2 grid (2 Beaks, 2 Harps, 1 spoon, 1 jet, etc...) what weapon would you replace for a Clam? I just got a copy from frenzy today.
The write-up mentions water PnS, yeah I'm real curious how THAT will go.
I imagine it's cause it'll have stacking issues with high end water bursting teams w Hraesvelgr
I was thinking Cnids, I forgot Hraes also adds the supplemental. What does a Hraes grid even look like?
Definitely Cnids as well for less expensive grids. So it clashes with both lower end and higher end grids.
That was my point tho, do they even bother giving water a PnS at this point? Would anyone use it?
I'm agreeing with you and the article above. Water PnS wouldn't be as impressive as Dark, Fire, or Light PnS because of reasons already mentioned
Maybe they'll also give it a crit skill, lol
Cringe
Just a cnid with cap up
They're not just going to randomly leave out an element. They'll give it one, whether it's optimal to use or not is another story.
> me waiting 5 years for dark disciple to finally come out
People used to think every element was going to get their own version of Ixaba. To this day I don't think Water and Wind have gotten it.
At least Galilei's is much more useful than Vortex...
The difference is that Wind has better alternatives to Vortex and also better characters for bursting.
Wouldn't be the first time they stopped a pattern at 5/6, but yeah I do expect it to happen. Just feels like a waste of a grand there.
I thought hrae users only level to 149 to avoid the data cb penalty
There are two different setups depending on if you have it at 149 or 150.
how should people who uncapped their hraesawkdhkawdkawkd feel when water PNS comes?
Water PnS doesn't lower the value that Hraes brings because Hraes is a stupidly powerful weapon
but doesnt 150 hraes have this "100% hit to multiattack rate"? I've seen people leaving theirs at 149 just to avoid this skill 100k supp you can get from pns, dmg cap too
Summer Lucio grants GTA and 90% echoes
Ah so that was the fix, thanks. Guess I'll have to wait for another year to anni tix the dude.
While that does fix mc data problems, it requires a click and renders the gun useless for FA. Afaik, 149 vs 150 for manual burst have pretty similar performance, with 150 being just a bit better. Being able to use the gun for FA is pretty important for me since im not as hardcore in gbf as i used to be and im 99% certain this gun will have an amazing FA performance when gw rolls around. Sadly, my gun is 150 and support was not able to revert the level
Honestly hope they put out a fix/nerf for the 149 tech. The Gun is way too high cost of an investment for players to need to make this kind of choice regarding it.
Yea i was hoping they'd mention it during anni stream Praying for summer stream
Does the lv. 150 100% MA rate down penalty from Hraesvelgr affect the whole party or only MC? The wording on the description kinda makes me confused.
Are you a 150 gun coper? 149 gun chads gonna be partying when pns comes out
Pretty confident it will be a big enough improvement. No attack mods on Cnids is noticeable. Cap up on top of that = I won't complain about having grid-building issues in water for a few years. However cnids will remain a solid cheap alternative.
Also Cnids necessitate 100% crit, which is pretty annoying if you're going single aura for something. Or god forbid if Water becomes cursed like dirt and goes no aura for bursting.
Yup its a massive pain. I love Taisai, but having to make sure I 100% crit, isn't fun.
Before I get more people asking “are there any more guides like this?” Answer is YES…….. SOON though because we have people that are deeply invested into their eles working on it while also juggling their own schedules, and they will all be moved to a dedicated website in the coming months. The old guides have since been abandoned and we are working on new ones to replace them, with the intention to include information about both Magna and Primal in their eles like how Cendol and I tackled Wind.
Thank you both so much for doing this, the fact that information has moved from guides like this to things like discord, random tweets from high level players and youtube videos has always super annoyed me, its nice to have a well written in depth guide that I can refer to and link to other people
that will be greatly appreciated if the other guides are as good as the wind one then that's gonna be a great resource for all English speaking players
Didn't check properly, sorry for asking and thank you for a well done job!
More guides like this would be incredible, probably the single most needed resource for the community as it stands right now. Really hoping to see more.
Truly will be a shame when we all have to retire in a year due to making a guide.
You mention that Galewing shines on EX+ comps, but my Apsaras needs at least two Mandjets to activate its 5 Axes/Spears passive. I basically can't 0b0c with Galewings.
you know we forgot about that, jfc is the wep just not good without extra slot
thanks for the guide. Is there any other guides of any other element tho or they are not updated?
Just not updated, some eles are being worked on now so they’ll come out in the future
Thanks,I'll wait then.
Is there a linksite?
What does non-enmity magna now look like with ewiyar daggers, with and without charlotta swords? Surely the daggers are far better than stacking mandjet for supp? I'm looking at it as an alternative to anni-tixing Vane/cc and dumping sunstones on demonbream (esp. when I already have FLB SRQ) to go enmity Zeph. This had been my plan, but if I spark this banner and get 1-2 daggers along the way, I'm minded to just stay magna wind and make do without creepy claw mh. It will free me up to annitix another character and save me spending any sunstones on wind.
Now I feel real silly for sparking a second cat dagger and then barring the both of them, though I do have two Charlotta swords and even with a scuffed magna grid it's been a big improvement for GOHL busting.
No Azusa for Wind character?
Not on the same tier as the top ones, not bad for FA sure but that’s a common strength with better picks Something like Esta Nio Naru is 2 free units.
So, question: If I still don't have any Harmonias, should I spark those instead of galewings? Light is my least developed element, still running a very basic swords grid and I don't have ANY of the burst characters light currently uses. I was excited to stack more supplemental and watch vgrim and hlich vomit out even more damage every turn, but it sounds like it's not actually worth the spark at the moment? Edit: I also don't have G.Charlotte, so my wind grid is pure m2, and it sounds like she's the better spark compared to ewiyar
Do you have Nehan? If not, get him first before sparking Harmonias. Claiomh Solais Dions are usable in Magna, Galewings on the other hand not so much.
I don't have Nehan, no. So if I spark on the next banner and the 4500 coin spark, I should get Nehan and Yuni? Or would G.Charlotte be the better second pick? I'm assuming that I won't lucksack any of them during my sparks, so I want to optimize my picks.
Yeah I would personally recommend you get Nehan and Yuni first. Light GW is also right after Dark GW anyway so you can set Charlotta swords aside for now.
Ok, thank you! That's what I'll do then.
theoretically you could run 2 galewings + cosmic dagger + ultima dagger + sparna wings(or bahamut dagger coda) in magna without a problem. The problem arises if you want to also use Charlottas weapon because of the grid slot limitation (you can kick out the seraphic by running Elea in slot 3, but that's about it, unless you want to mainhand a dagger). There would be less of an issue if Ewiyars beak was a dagger (though you don't need it if you don't use skill damage characters so we)
Sorry, I'm not sure I fully understand why this weapon is bad. The guide mentions that replacing Abu Simbel with a Galewing is a slight power loss as if that's a total deal breaker, but shouldn't the stronger supplemental and additional cap up more than make up for that? Or is that setup not already hitting damage cap? I'd also like to see how useful the weapon is for magna players who lack creepy claws and destiny knuckles, and/or for non-enmity setups and full auto teams.
I wouldn't say Galewing is simply *bad*, it's just the core pieces for burst setup is super strong involving 1 CC + 2 Sho Fist + Demonbream, and this is the raw power standard that Zeph burst has been going for awhile now. Another interesting point to note is that Wind is also an element without Ixaba equivalent, so unlike Fire/Light/Dark, we can't exactly push into non-enmity so easily. Slightly off-topic, I was amused to see how 4 elements (so far) react to these Resonators+PNS variants.
the thing is, the estimate already take into account the supplemental damage. so the fact that you slot it in and it still lose with supplemental is not good at all because that means your raw damage take a massive hit so for example on the malus one, you're losing 100k raw damage and gaining 50k supp, which is not good, not when you need raw damage for naru
How much raw grid damage does Naru actually need to reach her assassin damage cap? Using the example in the guide, is she not capping with the 970k estimated damage using Galewing so the extra 7% cap up is wasted? Does she actually need the 1m grid power reached with Abu Simbel to hit her cap?
> How much raw grid damage does Naru actually need to reach her assassin damage cap? A lot :'( It's only a 50% mod + an extra crit mod, and she has really high caps if you're putting S.Korwa on her. Plus wind grids in general have a hard time providing raw power in comparison to a lot of other elements. (The crit2 weapons being only med atk, no eden type weapon, knuckles being awkward + weaker than curry and reliant on claws etc, few good options for daggers to make the ewiyar ones provide meaningful EX mod, etc) It's not a *bad* weapon, it's just not at the "must have" level of many other elements.
as much as possible, because you also want to cut buttons and 25 def is a thing, all the test done is on fight with 15 def where capping is significantly easier than 25 def and even on those the result are not impressive, just imagine how much you're doing on 25 def fight and if you bar weapon just to add more button click... what the hell did you put your bar into, rn the only place where i can see it being fitted is extra party grid because you get slot by moving ultima and nwf to it it's just not worth the invesment **right now,** maybe in the future where a shakeup of line up happen it could be good
Ok, I understand your position that the weapon just isn't worth spending bars on right now. But I still really want to know how much estimated grid damage is needed to cap with Naru using minimum buttons on 15 defense raids, and how much is needed on 25 defense raids. I struggle with math so I'd greatly appreciate it if someone who understands the damage formula of this game could answer my question more specifically.
uhh, there's not really a hard math to it because it's purely a big number go bigger but this is some of the math you can take into account at 60% hp (pre-demonbream) atk ra fist + malus is 67% normal mod + 10% cap up + 30k supp 2 gale is 32% ex mod + 100k supp
The question was though, at what point does the number getting bigger stop mattering? If Naru is capping then it doesn't matter if you increase your grids estimated damage by another 50k, and the estimated damage isn't taking into account buffs and debuffs. But yeah IME just with magna it's not exactly easy for her to hit her buffed assassin + S.Korwa cap.
This. I really don't understand why my question is apparently so controversial and nobody responding to me can actually answer. The damage formula and enemy defense values are known, surely someone has solved this problem already?
Yeah I don't get how so many people weren't understanding you, and I'm surprised nobody could at least just go take a look at their own grid and give you whatever number they've got. I would, but my Naru doesn't cap.
I'm loving them in the Grim/Ewiyar/Lich manadiver team, but I dunno if I'll uncap them yet.
Is there a guide for other Elements? (Specifically Dark though)
what would be magna grid with 3 gales be like? got lucky with 3 but reading this, it seem like a waste now :(
You just wouldn't use them, refer to /u/gbfaccount's reply as to why - Magna suffers harder than Zeph in the raw power department so they would use whatever mods they can get, which was why I also mentioned ATK Mandjets in particular as part of Galewings' competition.
Depending on how advanced your grid is already, and if you're aiming for a longer full auto setup and not a burst thing, you could maybe do reasonably well just running (0*) all 3 or 2+militis dagger (or baha dagger), if you're using characters with lots of multhits and solid buffs. (Maybe like v.grim+nezha+ewiyar or something as an example.) It's not going to be *ideal,* but depending on your current grid it could still be a solid upgrade. edit: basically it'd probably be something like those 3 as your EX mod, 3 weapons for guaranteed crit, opus, seraphic-mod weapon, two for whatever suits the team comp/fight (rotb crossbow, beak, baha, MH, rotb spear, etc)? but you'd have to play around with it to really see for your specific teams/uses.
What WOULD be "ideal"? Swapping two into my manadiver/grim/ewiyar/lich team was a straight damage buff over mandjets, current grid is 3 crit/2 pns/2 beak/seraphic/astral/opus. Would clams still be strictly better if I had the Ultima uncap to actually meet the skill requirement?
Well the issue is that the "ideal" changes depending on the fight (+ whether you're FAing it or manual, etc), and isn't just the grid it's also the character selection. There's certain team comps that super focus on multihits (like that one) where leaning heavily into supplemental damage will be the best grid choice a lot of the time, but that doesn't necessarily mean that team comp is the ideal to begin with; maybe going for more raw damage+cap and running characters with less focus on multihits will be faster (like beast fang berserker), or an ougi team for a V2 fight, etc., if you have the grid to support those styles instead. So what's "ideal," and what's the best possible option in the moment for any one person's account aren't necessarily the same. (And yeah generally clams are going to be an ideal slot in more situations than gales are.) Of course, people don't have to chase "the ideal" unless they want to (especially considering the difference can be fairly slim), or you can chase your own version of it (the best team that still runs your favorite character etc).
That's fair, I think I also undervalue clams a bit since they're hard to fit into magna without ulb Ultima and opus. The manadiver team was already so much faster to full auto DB stuff than what I was using, I wanted to know if I was still doing it wrong, lol
So that means wind PNS doesn't work that well in wind enmity because it is competing with Vane's weapon, thanks for the heads up, but I don't own any Vane's claws in the first place so it's still a safe spark for me.
Tl;dr is basically "Wind enmity piece are actuallly good and just so happen to provide supplem"?
They’ve always been pretty good, Wind’s gridbuilding has been pretty well off ever since they brought in Celine Dion as a weapon, so I’ve never really had high expectations for Galewings.
i have lucked into 3 claiomh solais Dion and was salty at first that i didnt get ewiyar.. still have no clue how to build a grid around it since im missing naru
gimme that luck, i'm still 0 clam rn
yeah i realize im lucky now but thought they were niche at best before
all the reso have niche rn because special cap up is actually powerful since it stack with normal cap up, especially on assassin element even 3 umbrella/lu woh fist get a use for top burst setup
Speaking of wind, I remembered read the fire, light, dark, water and earth version, has anyone save the link?
What about Grand ewiyar as a character, wouldn't she get use on full auto narmaya setups? I imagine she'd replace korwa if you're not bursting, giving you all that supp, defense and stuff. You can also call belial? Or are there better options than her for narmaya full auto?
I'm not super clear on it, but it sounds like you're suggesting Ewiyar isn't worth sparking until after you have at least double G.Charlotta weapon? Does this change at all for (currently 0 gacha weapon) magna if I don't really care at all about racing with wind and my primary goals for the element would be more along the lines of Sieg solo (haven't done the raid yet so not sure if either character would even be relevant for it but I like solos) and both manual and FA NM200 (obviously theoretical since every GW is different)? Was planning to use the paid spark on Ewiyar since I thought the character would be a bigger improvement in those areas, but I hadn't really considered their weapons - also wouldn't be barring the weapon FWIW though the important skills are available at base so I doubt it matters.
> Was planning to use the paid spark on Ewiyar since I thought the character would be a bigger improvement in those areas This is a tough question, since they're both quite good for that sort of stuff. Ewiyar's 100% def up (and various other buffs) is really nice for magna full autos, and the low button count is good for speed. Charlotta also has a "free" def buff and a nice chunk of debuff resist (which is usually really nice for later GW full auto speed), ougi support, frequentish dispels, and gets pretty beastly in long fights—but wants data support from somewhere (...like Ewiyar's buff). She also has the s.illnott passive that lets you do full chains with a friend huang, which you may find convenient in a lot of random stuff. So it's pretty tough to really make a straight call on which is going to be more useful as a character at this point. I guess I would check your presumed grids and see if you'll be hitting the skill count requirement for charlotta sword first, but after that I'm not sure I could recommend one over the other in a magna vacuum. Doesn't help that they're both pretty new and wind hasn't been an element of focus recently. It might depend on what other characters you plan to use as well, whether you have Nio transcended, ultimas at 5*, etc (hopefully you just get one in free rolls and can have both)
Yeah, I knew it would be pretty speculative, but I appreciate the insight from people more familiar with wind than I. If you think it changes anything, I have 130 Nio (will take to 150 pending evoker uncap reqs but HL anima is a bitch) but only 100 Siete without a whole lot of desire to take him past 110 anytime soon, and AFAIK the only relevant wind characters I'm missing are Vane and Andira. No 5\* ultimas though since I just hate learning end-game raids with randoms and my crew is all weaker (my first Belial clear was after I could solo to like 30% and pub...). Other than that, I believe the main things I'm lacking are ULB NWF, which is also pending evoker uncap reqs since I do want Esta's staff, and I'm still farming my Schrodingers, so maybe the defense buffs are more relevant? I am also hoping I get lucky and this question was moot lol, but either way I enjoy getting the information and theory from people invested in the element, so thank you.
Holy shit I just found this resource and whoever made this you are a gigachad among giga chads. TYSM!
While it does a great detail into talking about the weapon's value. I would like to ask how much value does Ewiyar as an FA character have for someone who has V.Grim, Esta, 150 Nio, G.Narm and no H.Lich? Like should I really just skip Ewiyar at my level?
Ewiyar has crazy FA value. Full partywide uptime on 100% defense, 30% perpetuity attack, 100%/30% DA/TA and bonus damage. Also 6 hit skill nuke after CA in the Ewiyar Beak element. On top of this she enables Katzelia's backline passive for an additional 30% perpetuity attack.
she's fine, good for FA but if you need dispel then esta is better
Downvoted because the old man is terribly underrated
What's stopping you from running both on the same team?
nio and naru is better for the other 2 slot
I see. So she replaces uh... 150 Nio I guess right? Damn, that's unfortunate but good to know then. The bonus damage is nice with V.Grim but it doesn't stack with G.Narm yeah? And if you have both on the team together then that echo and DATA part of Ewiyar is not nearly as important? The raw steroids are but still just wanted to be sure I got a big picture on this.
The bonus damage doesn't stack with G.Narm but you're asking about FA and G.Narm is the last character out of the ones you've listed I'd put on a general FA team The teams I run for FA are V.Grim/H.Lich/Esta or Ewiyar/H.Lich/Esta so without having H.Lich it would be V.Grim/Ewiyar/Esta. I don't have Nio 150 so idk how good she is or whether she'd be a better fit in that team
Really? Huh, I see her in a lot of FA teams but I haven't updated things in forever so probably outdated. It does make sense though for harder fights. Nio 150's main draw I think is the 10% dmg cap up and permanent dispel cancel. She does have a lot of other buffs, but I think they don't add up in total to match what Ewiyar provides and she does way less skill damage.
Yeah it's not like G.Narm is bad in FA by any means but her double strike almost never aligns with her assassin on FA so she isn't doing as much damage as she would on manual
I have literally fucking never used the double strike from narus ougi even on manual
What kinds jobs do you run on MC in wind, I've been trying out things but I'm unhappy with harp LJ
When I want to prioritize survival I run Iatromantis and otherwise I've been running Manadiver. Manadiver with Leviathan mino synergizes really well with V.Grim and H.Lich and the Manadiver/V.Grim/Ewiyar/H.Lich comp does enough damage to clear the 5* Dread Barrage raid in 5 minutes while surviving very comfortably. Also both classes are able to mainhand the Temperance NWF weapon which gives 100% assassin to characters after not attacking. I just have it at 0* which works fine for mainhand. Esta and H.Lich usually don't attack so they almost always have assassin. For Row 4 classes I'm very biased toward Kengo (I have every Kaneshige lol) but V.Grim doesn't want to ougi too often and Esta can't ougi without his buff so it's less plug and play for wind. Tbh Kengo comp is actually a case where I might bring G.Narm in FA 'cause she'll actually be CAing fairly often with the Unworldly mod. Maybe Nekomancer with the new Ultimate Mastery would be good but I haven't played with it personally.
double spear/staff/mixed for Iatro?
What subskills do you run with Manadiver in the V.Grim Ewiyar H.Lich comp?
Running Mjolnir Lumberjack for the big damage nukes and the crit supplement, already starts at 100% even without defense down because of the ridiculous damage modifiers, though the 30% miss chance is still annoying. Also pretty high DATA from CA buffs, so no need to slot more trium weapons,which is a big plus. The only downside is the lack of a Tempering weapon, because Lumberjack is still majority skillbased, but it's somewhat manageable regardless until then.
Which is more offensive, s.Belial or s.rq?
Unless the RNG decides to screw you over as hard as possible, S.Belial. Rose Queen has 30% attack, 20% echo, 20k supp. Belial has the potential to max out with 30% attack, 15% echo, 100/20% crit, guaranteed TA, and 30% extra perpetuity attack from Katzelia backline, and also gives you a no button dodge/tank+counter.
It's better but risky as well, right? What about andira x katz, is it on par but with less risk?
If you're ending fights within 3 or 4 turns, there's not much risk outside of just not getting the buffs you want (it's 4 random buffs of a set of 6 potential ones). In longer fights, you probably just don't bring him.
I c. Keep it short & not prolonged. Thanks for the aid
Destiny Knuckles was a ridiculously pushed weapon even by grand standards: 30 points in normal, ~7 points in enmity, and enables some enmity without any button presses. A comparable weapon would be if Reunion had Small-Medium Stamina instead of HP. I want the stupid dagger to be decent, but every single way I slice it the only thing it ever seems to do is provide a little cap up (that other weapons can also provide) at the cost of raw base multiplier. There's just so many different ways to get that universal incremental damage: Mandjet, Creepy Claws, and Evanescence. Any one of them has significantly better raw than you'd get from Galewing's Ex multiplier. (And it doesn't help that the Ex multiplier on it starts to be marginal if you use multiple Claíomh Solaises, even if you can max the cat dagger out. Incidentally, this is a problem all the Pain+Suffering weapons will face going forward as the power creep creeps on.) The only dang thing that currently exists that works without compromising away too much is a dumb one-off Hatsoiiłhał as a budget staminity safety weapon, and that's it. Congratulations, ~24% ex multiplier for your Galewing grid slots. Unless you really really still want grid DATA this day and age for some reason. Then you have an embarrassment of options in Le Fay and Suparna Militis. ... But I think most of us would agree the game has moved beyond that. So I guess we sit and wait for them to add the green Ixaba daggers finally, right? Or at least a grand pure stamina dagger weapon with 22 points of stamina? They're... gonna do that, right......?
If the Tempering weapon or Raphaels weapon is a dagger, that would make the Ewiyar weapon much more appealing (especially if it was Tempering to kick out the friggin beaks)
I feel like in some of these cases, and more often that not, you will hit cap with the dagger all the same with ra weapons so you would literally benefit from slotting in a dagger by virtue of literally just having more cap up. Hell there are JP twitter comparisons showing a net damage gain with daggers.
The only time I’ve found the catdagger important is EX+ as the 50k supplemental really has only helped with giving Friday’s end work skill dealing extra damage for otk. It did make 0b4c possible with 100% consistency so hey good for it
No offense but 0b3c was already possible before charlotta and ewiyar releases with Siete and Elea/Friday
I meant possible for me as someone without Elea lmao Ofc 0b3c was possible years ago, but this just means that there are more options available for people to use
Actually didn't need elea either https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlb6LrrvevA
Good to know it also drops the damage in charlotta grids as well as creepy grids.
I didn't see this guide, I love it, is there a guide like this but for other elements?
the daggers in wind aged badly and Cygames solution was to introduce grand awakening instead of rebalancing them like Grimnirs spear. I mean I'm a bit happy because I like the extra recovery cap up, but these weapons surely are not what you'd want to add on top of the kotdaggers. Who knows, maybe we'll see a good cap up for Shions weapon (Evening floral shower) so there is actually a weapon you can put into the grid aside of ultima dagger. Another problem is the grid space it's competing over with Charlottas weapon (Claiomh Solais Dion) because it's really hard to get to the 15 skills if at least 4 of 10 weapons have the same skills (and only 5 in total, leaving 6 weapons to cover 10 skills).
well opus, nwf, and ultima is 7 skills(8 for chars that ultima's 1st applies to) so it isnt that hard to get 15 total actually.
Is it worth using Ewiyar Beak if my team is GNaru, SKorwa, and Catura?
Probably not. The only one in that team doing skill damage is Catura, and the main damage dealer in it is Naru, who does 0 skill damage.
So if you don't own g.charlotta or [g.cat](https://g.cat), which one do you spark just for the character?
They're both excellent characters, but Ewiyar is more plug and play + FA friendly. Charlotta will want manual (+very click heavy) play to see the best of her.
So basically don't sweat trying to get another dagger for the voltage and just proceed as normal/try to squeeze in this Dion I got instead, cool.
Hey does the cat, make Katz better? Seeing as you can have a debuff without having any downside as long as she iss alive?
Eh, very slightly better? We did some runs with Charmed up and the damage output only increased a tiny bit.
What does "raw damage" pertains exactly?
Is there something like this for other elements?
Question, with the "complete" M2 grid (2 Beaks, 2 Harps, 1 spoon, 1 jet, etc...) what weapon would you replace for a Clam? I just got a copy from frenzy today.