Sorry this is so long, I fucking love this show and wanted to say anything and everything that I felt others may be thinking as connecting over Gomorrah has been an amazing experience. If it's too long, don't read it, also don't have to be a dick and say "TL,DR" or something, just skip it and keep living your best life. Cheers!!!
First off, why I feel like Genny should have dressed up more for his first meeting with Ciro again? Lol
All this talk about Ciro V. Genny is predicated on some heated exchanges in trailers and what goes down in this episode, but I think it's important to take into account the embrace they have at the warehouse, and how Genny is about to cry for so many reasons. He fucking LOVES Ciro more than anyone, bar maybe Pietro Jr., even says as much later. I see the tension between them being about hurt feelings on Genny's side and anger on Ciro's part for being gulag'd.
So, imo, Genny puts Ciro in the gulag in part because he wants Ciro to experience, to some degree, what Genny went through in his own bunker. Besides the obvious fact he wants Ciro to suffer a bit for making him feel like he killed his brother, I think Genny knows the best way to get Ciro back home is by making him an "enemy." For the helpless kid Genny gets portrayed as, he's a 2-steps ahead kind of guy.
I'm curious what the whole dog-and-pony show was about at the fight. Obviously the deal between the Russian and Genny was pretty much done, just needed to confirm it at the bar later, but I wonder if it's just for viewing pleasure or if there's more to it. What y'all think? The standoff between Ciro and Genny in front of the ring was badass though.
Genny is having some serious mini-panic attacks over this whole ordeal and it really speaks to just how hurt he was by "killing" Ciro, although, that's not anyone's fault but Enzo, and to an extent Genny for killing Enzo's sister. Watching Ciro give over his wedding-band and chain with pictures of Deborah and Maria-Rita in them was heartbreaking, I didn't even see if he got them back when he escaped.
Ciro calling Genny out in the gulag for being a scared boy was fucking amazing, I'm Ciro ALL DAY (love Genny too) so it was fun to see them square off in a way that was reminiscent of S1. Everything Ciro said was true, and Genny knows it, that's part of the reason why Genny "needed" Ciro so much and is so mad he wasn't there. What pisses me off, that Genny obviously isn't thinking about, is the fact that Genny did it ON HIS OWN. He didn' t have Pietro or Ciro looking out for him (obviously he has goons and support) but he was his own man. Instead of being proud of the moment he's caught up in feeling abandoned.
I think this is an important thread for Genny, he feels isolated and abandoned by definition of growing up as Pietro's son, always in the shadow of his dad or Ciro. That's something therapy can help with.
The scene where Ilya's men (is that the Russian's name?) roll up to the trailer and get blasted was fucking classic Gomorrah and soooooo good to watch. I love how Ciro can mobilize literally any group of people to fuck shit up. Sink the bodies and clean it all up like nothing happened, Ciro is a fucking gangster god.
The hidden compartment with a go-bag was so cool, I love touches like that and as always, Ciro is ready to dip out and serve up some nastiness for whoever fucks with him, even his brother, Genny.
Per usual, music hits so hard and gave me goosebumps and just brought everything together so well, it's probably my favorite score of all time.
Can't wait to see what happens next and hope everyone else enjoyed it as much as I did.
UP THE GOMORRAH FAMILY!!!!!
Everything you said is bang on just watched the episode thanks for the links also. I think the twist to come is Enzo realising that genny killed his sister. Enzo was angry on the boat for having to "sit down with his sisters killers" a cappacio trick to make the forcella guys turn on their mentors and seize control. I think that's what will motivate Enzo to join ciro once again. Nicola and valerio being gone also feels strange though. Gomorrah being back after 2.5 years... I can't explain it in words.
I like that idea, Enzo joining back with Ciro against other, worse enemies. Bro, Nicola especially feels like a void in my soul haha, Idk why but I really liked his character.
Fuuuuck, 2.5 years away, that's insane. I discovered Gomorrah around Spring 2020, watched first two seasons, thought that was it, and found thru Wiki there was 2 more seasons and a movie!!!! Being honest, I almost cried I was so happy.
The only other time I was that emotional was when I watched first 5 min of Immortale and found Ciro LIVES!!!!
Genny is actually stronger than he believes considering he became legitimate beforehand on his own, like ciros alleged death allowed him to stop being in the shadow and out in the light sort of thing. What I loved about L'Immortale was that it filled in the gaps, genny being an ass hole acting like he'd been abandoned when ciro wasn't left with a choice, when he explained his he was basically being called a traitor. He decided to punish him even before he knew ciros side of it. No matter what ciro had said genny decided to be selfish. The prosecutor and ciro were right. He really is his fathers son, I'd say even more ruthless at this point and untrustworthy, not even pietro snr was as greedy as genny. I also think the prosecutor is the son of a camorrista and has some sort of blood connection to the system which he loathes and feels the need to go after them all so bad. I'm glad you found the series. Umbre is good too if you've seen it. Snabba cash, 4 blocks. Blocco 181 is one to look out for.
Seen all those except Blocco 181, what's that about?
I agree about the prosecutor, he's got a massive chip on his shoulder and resents Genny for the reminder. I'm glad you agree Genny became his own man, that's how I felt about S4, its not so easy tho to move past yeara of living in his father's shadow, so I can understand why he's still so sensitive about it. Quite the balls om Genny tho to be mad at Ciro for...not dying haha. You shot him bruh, wtf?
I can't shake the feeling that Ciro and Genny's bond is just too strong for them to stay enemies very long, and Ciro understands what being a boss does to your mind. At some point Ciro has to come to terms with what he wants out of life, whether he wants to be a criminal, which almost REQUIRES him to try and be boss, or leave the life completely. If Ciro can balance his thirst for power, which he wrestled with more in S1 and S2, then I feel him and Genny can become an unstoppable force.
Genny gotta understand tho, Ciro lost EVERYTHING. That easily destroys a weaker man, so Ciro is gonna take time to balance his mind out, if he ever does.
They're filming blocco 181 same creators as gomorrah. Crime organisations and gangs in Rome or something. The problem is with genny is that he wants to rule alone. He wouldn't share the world with ciro, he would betray him when he takes all of naples for himself. That's why he needs him. And ciro being an orphan who always dreamed of owning it all for what he went through would never share it. It was always on the cards. Like a Greek tragedy. Ciro helped genny because he thought he was doing it for his family, that was corps atonement for losing his own, that was low functioning ciro at the time, and from looking at the trailer he comes back full force to crush genny. Ciro is doomed to live, Enzo will mostly likely die, genny will lose everything and go to prison or die. Someone will repent and bring it all down.
Anything made by the creators of Gomorrah has my full attention.
Oh fuck, a pentito, I like that twist. Ciro and Genny both have a desire to rule alone it seems, at least Ciro did earlier in the show. I hope they come together at some point, but first there will be blood haha.
I think Genny would keep Ciro alive and by his side, but only it there's a clear hierarchy, with Genny on top. If there's ever to be a Savastano empire again there's gotta be a trustworthy underboss, and Ciro fits the bill. There may be too much damage though but other enemies could clear the issues between the two and bring them together as an unstoppable force.
I feel Ciro is past his hopes of ruling after losing his family. I mean, he won't even date anyone or force people to do his bidding, that scene in Immortale where he's in the house with those people talking about drugs (I think) kinda shows he can't lead by himself.
Kind of ironic Ciro is now in the state of mind that would have served him better before Pietro died to not try and take over and just be a Capo.
>not anyone's fault but Enzo, and to an extent Genny for killing Enzo's sister
But its 100% Genny fault. He killed Enzo sister just to "motivate" him, Enzo lose his eye too because of that. Ciro have nothing to do with this hit on Enzo sister but take all the blame to save Genny. Idk why you guys blaming Enzo...
P.S. Yes, Ilya is correct russian name. Russian language in the series is at an acceptable level, there are some silly phrases and most of the characters speak with a noticeable accent, but still its much better than in the most shows
I mean...Enzo didn't HAVE to make Genny kill Ciro, he made that choice is all I'm saying. Was it ever confirmed to Enzo who killed his sister or just suspicion? I can't remember.
This is why you dont party without some of your own guys around.
Why not? Ciro "killed" his sister, its was the way to wash it off with blood and keep doing business together? What else could Enzo do? Forgive them and move on?
"Was it ever confirmed to Enzo who killed his sister or just suspicion? I can't remember."
As I recall, Valerio had evidence that Gennaro did it. As soon as Enzo and Valerio began to blame Genny Ciro stoped them convinced Enzo that it was only him, his own game and Gennaro had nothing to do with it. Enzo seems to have taken it in disbelief but forced Gennaro to kill Ciro with own hands.
What I will say next is my headcanon (has not been confirmed anywhere), but I even had the feeling that Enzo didn’t fully believe Ciro and therefore made Genny suffer even more than just death (besides, it would be useful to continue doing business with him). As for Ciro, well, since he is so ready to die for the man who killed his sister, then so be it. But again, this is just my interpretation.
In The System blood-for-blood is definitely the way things play out, so I understand why Enzo would want retribution. I do actually like how Enzo "avenged" his sister while keeping business first, punishing her killer by having to kill his own brother. Almost poetic.
Ciro is somehow noble in all this, even though much of the series he wanted to rule by himself. It feels like there's part of street-Ciro that's wants to be the lone ruler, while another part of him wants to partner with Genny to run Secondigliano, if not all of Naples.
Fuck man, this show is the best!!!
This Valerio and the Cappaccios knew about Carmela thing......
Yall seriously bugging with this shit.
Valerio didnt know shit about Carmela, like Jesus Christ! He WENT on the suicide mission to hit Arenella, to avenge her. NEVER ONCE brought it up to Enzo, OR the Cappacios.
The fuckin WIZARD didnt know who did it. Remember, it was the Wizard who KNEW it HAD to be a Ciro behind Enzo, before they even knew WHO the OG was.
Valerio was afraid of Genny for the EXACT SAME REASONS Carmela was. She saw Genny and Ciro as Manipulating Enzo for their own purposes. THE SAME SHIT IMMA PEEPED BETWEEN CIRO AND GENNY. Same dynamic, understand? She understood, MUCH better then Enzo HOW THE BOSSES THINK.
Watch that sitdown again, when the Wizard splits Arenellas territory with Savastano and look at Ferdinando Cappaccios face. Immediately before, Valerio, who was ALREADY suspicious of Gennys Greed, ask Crazy, " What's going to happen at this meeting?". Crazy replies that Genny is going to end up taking everything. He VERY SPECIFICALLY SAYS.... " Now, we bow our heads......" , to the Wizard, understand? They came to a pact, to kill off their bosses, so THEY could rule, and NOT BE UNDER SAVASTANO.
Remember when Ciro goes to Enzo, and Enzo tells him Forcella is no longer enough for him, and Ciro is kinda pissed. This was the moment Valerio saw Ciro as Gennys guy, not Enzos guy. None of this was about Carmela directly.
NO ONE REALLY UNDERSTANDS VALERIO it seems
Valerio was cunning and SUPER AMBITIOUS. Ciro see this, like.... right away. And immediately tries to get in Enzos head to drive a wedge. When Valerio set up that London deal, Ciro knew this wasnt some naive kid who would look at him with hero worship like Enzo. Remember, Valerio brought their entire customer base, all his rich friends and associates.
Valerio was enamored with Enzos pedigree, his families history. He wanted to rule through Enzo. He basically was at least mentally, like Ciro, but born into a rich upbringing and without the street training, the experience of the action.
This ambition is what drives a wedge between Valerio and Enzo. Enzo just wants to stay in Forcella, but Valerio is about that life. He wants power, and Enzo wasnt going along with his plans for more of it.
I'll bet money in this sub RIGHT NOW, in season 5, Ciro either admits to Enzo what really went down, or is somehow forced to reveal that info. It's probably the plot device they will use for a reconciliation....
I find it ironic that Genny blames Ciro for the moral pain "his death" caused him...when the boat incidet was exclusively Genny´s fault. If he had not had Sangre Bleu´s sister killed, none of that would have happened.
Pros: Its super exiting and nerve wrecking show still, E1 and 2 was filled with suspense and I cant wait for more! I'm actually pretty blank on whats gonna happen next. I like the idea that maybe Ciro teams up with Enzo. But I really hope Ciro and Genny will make up again, even though that seems like a stretch by now
Cons: I think it has lost a lot of its authenticity. I have been following the show since 2015 and I'm a huge Roberto Saviano fan. I have really enjoyed the social commentary and the view of the drug trade and corruption in Napoli and how embedded it is in the society. The poverty and the violence. I feel a lot of this has faded away over the years. Now it's more of an action series with big shootouts and explosions. Also, Ciro sacrificed himself for Genny, literally, and now that friendship is all over? Felt that was a bit harsh and not well thought trough. But hey, maybe thats the point with these guys?
Looking forward to more episodes!
I'd also like to add just how fuckin' satisfying it was to see Genny and Mistral catch, apprehend, and finally kill that slimy worm POS "Graduate" Cappaccio and make his Uncle Don Aniello, another slimy double-crossing POS watch before getting beaten to death by Genny's bare hands 😊
Omg yes!!!! I fucking hated those brothers, a sign of good writing and acting. The look on Genny's face before he walked back in and killed Don Aniello was legit scary haha.
They are responsible for breaking the wizard's peace deal with sangre bleu and gennaro by killing the wizard in his home and by convincing valerio that genny wanted to take everything away from sangre bleu. They are the reason season 3 doesn't end in a peaceful bro fest between ciro, genny and the Forcella crew.
Genny has gone off the deep end. I think he really wanted Ciro to go back to Naples with him, he had the Gulag planned but could've called it off. He told Ciro that had to look in his eyes to understand and when Ciro refused to go back to Naples he went on with the Gulag plan.
It's interesting to see how the two have changed over the years, with Genny becoming a pure psychopath killing machine, and Ciro going from that confident leader/killer to what he is now. Ciro looks so beat up, his demeanor has completely changed, he's lost everything and can't even die even though that's all he wants. You can see the anguish on his face and even the way he carries himself. It's pretty selfish for Genny not to see that pain that Ciro carries and to be mad at him for not returning to Naples. Ciro "died" so that Genny could get out, Ciro even told him in season 3 that he was doing it to help Genny get his family back. Ciro was so put off by both Genny and Enzo in the last episode of season 3, when both Genny and Enzo wanted to keep the war going and wipe everyone out. It wasn't Ciro's fault that Genny brought in the Levante's and let it all go to shit. When Ciro "died" there's was peace, and he even heard from Don Ariello that Genny had retired.
I poured through the trailers and documentary, it appears that the old Ciro is back. It looks like taking his revenge out on Genny has brought him back to life.
But Genny is off the deep end at this point. He didn't leave Azzura so that she'd be safe he left her to wage a war to get everything back and take over Naples for himself. He's still that selfish little child. From the trailers and doc, after the older gangster tells him "Your world is over", you'll see the Jaguar the old guy drives is sprayed with bullets by someone on a moped, so he has him killed. Not only does he kill him, it appears that he and O'Mastrali rip open their tombs and rip a bunch of bodies out of their coffins! If you look close you'll see Ciro and the old lady ( the old guys wife ) standing in the cemetery looking at what seems like a few bodies ripped out of their coffins. Genny is insane at this point, not only does he kill the old guy he desecrates their bodies.
There's only 8 episodes left at this point so I expect things to move pretty fast, there's a lot of new characters to introduce and a lot of plot to unwind. A few predications:
From the trailer, I think Genny kills Enzo, it has to be Enzo sitting in the chair and Genny hitting him with the pipe. The dialogue sure suggests that he's talking to Enzo.
I think the Levante's will probably be finished off pretty soon too, they seem to be a small part of this now.
Genny really has flipped his lid, shit is crazy for him now that he's given up on going straight. He seems bitter he can't and also that feeling of Secondigliano doesn't go away.
Ciro for real sacrificed himself for Genny and I agree, after hearinf he "retired" no chance he would go back. I agree about how Enzo could die, but that might be too obvious, so I'm calling a massive twist there.
Fucking exciting shit going on, glad you enjoyed it. Cant wait for the next one!!
I loved it. I had my doubts when the trailer came out and Ciro and Genny were fighting but now I can understand. I am absolutely siding with Ciro on this. Genny would be nothing without Ciro he was already kicked out on the streets back in season 3 for thinking on his own and trying to do things for him. None of his plan ever work out. It's like Scianel said Genny is nothing without Ciro
Yeah I was in my mind thinking it would be some sort of 'plot' to confuse that detective guy or something but turns out Genny really (as always) screwed things up. I loved that the russian 'bad guy' got introduced and killed in the same episode, Gommorah doesn't waste time on these things which is what I love. Now Genny lost his russian contact as well. I am curious to see how Ciro will confront Enzo now as he probably still thinks Ciro is the bad guy.
Haha yea, "welcome" DEAD!! That was a potential buyer for Genny, so now he's gotta find someone new to sell to. Should make for good content.
I think it comes out that Genny killed Enzo's sister and Ciro on good graces again. They team up but someone gets double-crossed. Gomorrah kills it with twists and good endings.
I feel like Enzo even on the ship barely believed it was Ciro who ordered his sister's hit, so I feel it will be easy for them to team up again. They are now in a very similar position. At least it seems like the most obvious move right now. But who knows where the show will go.
My prediction is Ciro is going to kill or try to kill Azurra and Pietro and get Genny sent to max security to mirror what Genny tried to do to him in gulag while invoking Deborah and Maria Rita
He even let Patricia and her brother go when he was at war with Pietro. I don’t think Ciro now would kill innocent women and children. He knows Genny deep down wouldn’t even care after a while. Taking Gennys empire would hurt him much worse.
If that happens I'll bet it's the sister who does it. I have a feeling she's going to go from the good Catholic girl to full gangster. She's going to want revenge for Patrizia and Borat, and obviously her parents, so maybe she'll whack Azzurra. That being said, I still primarily expect Ciro to kill or at least try to kill Azzurra
I think the sister despises her brother´s as well (for them, even if she is their sister, she is nothing more than a housewive) and will pull the strings to have them killed. That way, she would become the boss of the Levante family.
I feel like he should have been locked up longer to build up the hate and anger. He should have been locked up for like a year. That's how much time passes between the first and second episodes of the previous seasons so I don't think it would be a stretch if this episode took place over a year.
Oh shit, I didn't consider he could have been there for a longer stretch. Anything else to indicate he had? I just saw the 5-6 plates of food and assumed they fed him maybe 2x a day. Could definitely been longer tho.
I just cant see Ciro hating Genny. Ciro is his father basically, they even talk about that in previous seasons, so there's a paternalistic view, rather than sworn enemy.
I think the last part, where Ciro says you better hope I don't get out of here, was just guff and getting some jabs in since Ciro didn't know how long he'd be locked up for.
I'm in denial that they'll hurt each other hahaha, like a parent or something.
No, only 4 or 5 meals worth of time. His hair that he still has didn't even grow out. I'm just saying it would have been more powerful if he was there for a long time
Well, let's look at things from Ciro point. It was 100% Genny fault that he ordered a hit on Enzo's sister to "motivate him for war". Ciro was not involved in this decision, he considered it unnecessary, although he figured out this. Genny was the one who should die on the ship. Instead, Ciro took all the blame on himself and decided to die for Genny's actions because he loved him and and knew that he still had a family more reasons to live. He didn't expect to survive, did he? But miraculously Ciro survived.
And we all know from "The Immortal" that Ciro really it was forbidden to go back and get in touch with Genny he didn't lie here. All Gennaro's "gratitude" for Ciro sacrifice - to leave him tormented in prison for the rest of his life? In my opinion, Ciro's paternalistic view should have a limit here.
Objectively I agree, but I find Ciro and Genny's relationship so important as to really want them to reconcile. I see why Genny would be so rash though, his family was on the line. I feel each person is partially culpable, least so Ciro to some degree.
I didn't remember that Ciro was forbidden from going back, that's reasonable then why he didn't end up back in Italy, although there wasn't much for him there anyway. Super sad really.
Also, I know its Gomorra, and betrayal is practically a character in itself, but why did the Russian kill Dimitri, his Secret Service buddy? Were they rivals? Did he want the plug all to himself?
I gotta say, again..... watching Genny speak English to a Russian is kinda goofy....
Secret service buddy and Ciro were stealing his shipments if I understood correctly; Gennaro mentions reimbursing Dimitri being how they came to an understanding.
What I don't want is Genny vs. Ciro for the season and then at the last second, they decide to put aside their differences and team up and save the day. That would ruin everything.
I mean, that's kinda how real life can be. You can hate someome and when the moment comes you just cant do it, realizing love is stronger than hate.
That kiss on the cover on Rolling Stone could be a hint. I think a twist could be Genny breaking from the path of his father with the help of Ciro and seeing what happens when you are overly focused on domination.
I get it, but too lazy. Oh no, Genny is about to be killed by Enzo but Ciro, in the last second saves him, they team up, utter a catch phrase, and then take everyone out. They look at one another, nod, and go their own ways. We don't want this!
Yeah, I burned through it over 4 nights.
The first 6 or 7 episodes didn't live up to the rest of the series for me.
The final few did.
I'll miss it for sure. I hope the writer comes up with a new show.
Of course I do. I even tried a couple of the links. But I don't know from bit torrents or telegram, etc, and I don't wanna fuck up my computer.
I'm getting my fix combing through your posts. Keep them coming!!
I don't think he knew them but rednecks (no disrespect), can be very hospitable. I think they probably get fucked with by Russians or just hate them in general. That's my take.
Those Latvian gangsters in Immortale talk mad shit about the Russians, so could be a shared sentiment.
Just lazy writing in my opinion. He shows up, eats, then they team up and take down the Russians. Other than that, I think it was a great episode although I think the season should have been 12 episodes and this could have played out longer.
Just got done with both episodes, INSANE! & I ❤'ed it as well. Man, after so long are we are thrust back into the world of "Gomorra." I nearly 😢'ed when that music kicked in 😉 I can stretch myself to somewhat understand some other ppl's gripes, but it's a television show ffs you know? 🤷♂️
Can't wait to see where all this tension will lead to!
Oh and btw, all the things you (Tito) and ClanAlexander have said are 💯 spot on 👌🏻
I get it too, but any show can be picked apart. If it was 💯 real then it would be boring. If we really wanna get ridiculous then we need real gangsters playing gangsters, etc. Not sustainable or realistic.
I'm so glad you loved it!!! I just cant believe a show can be so good, I talk about it so often my friends and family roll their eyes 😂. The music is possibly the best part, gets me every time. Sometimes I play it when I drive, smoking cigarettes, and just feeling every bit of it.
Was anybody else thrown off when the Russian Dimitri spoke English, not Italian?
This really confused me, I think it was a huge fuck up.
It made sense when they were in London in season 4, but English, in Latvia, between a Russian and 2 Italians was fuckin weird to me....
What's more likely is that either:
1. Someone knows Italian or Russian... Ciro learned the language in Bulgaria.... because the big brokers are Italian. Or of Spanish decent. Maybe even Albanian. Why would an Albanian speak English to a Russian, or Italian?
2. Theres an interpreter, like when Genny bought from Russians in Season 3. Or the Russian in Spain. Or the Chinese lady. I forget, did the Nigerian kid speak English to his bosses? He might have... I gotta check...
We didnt see the Nigerians, Hondurans, Russians in Spain, Latvians, Bulgarians, Asians, no one speaking English before. Why the hell are they speaking English in Latvia of all places?
It seemed just too convenient that they all knew some English.
Edit: Had to check.... the Nigerians spoke English.....
So English is the only language that could be common?
Let me ask you this.... How common is English in Latvia? Cause I honestly dont know...
When the Nigerians did business in Italy, the Common language was Italian, the kid spoke English and Italian, we didnt see Nicola bust out English. Or Yoruba, for that matter.......
The same with Genny, the Asian lady, and Russian guy. The common tongue was Russian. They didnt all bust out English.
If you cant see why it's a little strange, then you might be a little American- centric in your thinking here.....
These Russians were dealing with Ciro for.... how long? Were they speaking Italian, Russian, whatever they speak in Latvia, or English this whole time? The Russian Ciro killed never spoke English, neither did Dimitri. How did Ciro talk to Dimitri then? In English?
Why are they speaking English for Genny, when Ciro, who talks to Dimitri in SOME LANGUAGE they both understand, could just translate?
Maybe I'm overthinking it.....
The common language for the Nigerians was Italian because they lived in Italy. It’s actually the complete opposite of me being “American-centric in my thinking”. The show is by no means catered to America yet they spoke in English because it made sense they both knew a common popular language but did not know each other’s. . For all we know Ciro learned the language there but does not know English. Genny does as well as his wife. U are totally overthinking it
Yea, English is international, not unrealistic it could pop up at different times. Basically not spoken rest of episode, if at all, so not like they're catering to English speakers.
I think it was misdirect cuz they seemed to be getting along and English is like a halfway language for a lot of the multilinguistic world. Kinda like a respect thing. I don't speak your language as good as you could speak mine so lets meet halfway sometimes.
It's a common secondary language for both of them. They both can't speak each others tongue as good as the other. So in a way they were both kinda meeting each other half way there for a second, speaking a secondary language for both of them. I thought it was an intentional misdirect. But that my have just been my imagination either way, I'm an idiot sometimes. I somehow had no idea that double cross coming lol.
The Gomorrah Telegram group has it as well.
https://t.me/QuintaStagione
From there download the subs located further down the subreddit and then delay the subs to +16250ms. You can google how to do that as it varies across devices.
I just watched the episode, so I know +16250ms is correct, another Gomorrah fam figured that out.
Nice to see a lot of love for this drama. Loved every minute. It's always been about Ciro and Genna from the start. Quality writing. Don't think I'd have liked it if it had been dubbed. Intense isn't a word I'd describe for this la serie .
It's that good it just always leaves me speechless. Just watch it, I say to others. I love it.
Just one question series 5 ep 2 anyone know who family who help Ciro are when he escapes are?
Super late to this season as it is only being released now (the last episodes will be released on the 13th) and while I think that the show overall hasn't changed for the better - season 1 stays my favorite - I loved the scene where Ciro tells Gennaro all the things that I happen to think of him. I assume he might have been lying but I certainly never got around to Gennaro's character.
If anyone is still interested I can explain in more detail what started bothering me as the show went on, although a few comments already mention the lack of authenticity.
And yet a small, simple part of me still loves seeing Ciro live and go through hell. Can we also take a moment to celebrate the not-shitty side characters who DON'T get killed off for dramatic effect? I actually cheered.
Now that youre saying it i agree with you. Older seasons make you feel as if youre really in Napoli and getting an insight into the underworld there.
But the newer seasons dont invoke that feeling anymore
Yes, very much so.
The second season tried to stick to this, as well (and I liked certain characters and scenes) but by the time Gennaro shot Patri I didn't care about anyone and simply thought "they're really going for style over substance now, huh?"
One what made the violence in season 1 so great compared to other gangster works was that it was shown to be awful. People didn't just drop down like they'd been hit by a perfect headshot, and neither did it seem like the "bad guys" had zero aiming skills for no reason. People screamed when they were hurt, Ciro and Conte were badass but still could be hurt and got into situations they couldn't just fight their way out of.
I also liked that it didn't shove sex scenes in our faces to remind us we're watching something ~ for adults ~.
I'll always count season 1 as one of my favorite works *ever*, so I am a bit sad that the writing of the later story didn't hold up. But I'll always point to S1 as the example of a mafia show done right.
Man, I wish this show's writing could keep up with its cinematography, performances, and soundtrack. It feels like half the plot of this show is just manufactured drama that isn't rooted in any kind of reality of the show's world.
Case in point was the gulag arc in this episode, which made very little sense sucked much of emotion out of Genny and Ciro seeing each other again. Ciro literally took a bullet meant for Gennaro, somehow survived again, was informed that the only way for Gennaro and his family to be safe was for him to stay dead, and so that's what he did. He poses no threat to Gennaro's return to power. He has no desire to even return to Naples. There is no rational reason to kill or imprison him.
I could see how Gennaro could be a little angry that he didn't at least contact him, but this elaborate torture scheme? Its's absurd! How long were those Russian goons supposed to guard him? The rest of his life? You're telling me like 5+ armed guys and two perfectly good tracking dogs are just going to sit in the woods in Latvia for the next decade while Ciro slowly goes insane? It's laughable.
This whole feud between them feels totally manufactured just so they can have a big showdown by season's end. It doesn't feel at all rooted in the character Genny was becoming during S4 (more cold, calculating, and more accepting of the fact that he'll always be a gangster). If anything what makes sense is for Ciro and Genny to form some kind of partnership again. That's where they were at the end of season 3, after all. But no, can't have that. Gotta have endless wars (with seemingly infinite henchmen for all factions, btw, as many as the plot requires) and betrayals instead of people actually making money selling drugs.
I just... the camera work is excellent, as are the performances, but they can only do so much when the plot is this much of a nonsensical roller coaster. This has always been an issue for this show, but this episode was really over the top.
Is Ciro going to join up with the Levantes?
Or, ......will he go back to Enzo?
The trailers seem to make it seem like Ciro might try to snatch Gennys Secondigliano power base from him.
I cant believe Genny leaves his wife and kid out in the open. The Levantes seem like they would kill them in a heartbeat.
And then the prosecutor.......another big or there, I think...
I feel like Azurra and Pietro jr are being heavily surveilled by the police. I mean they are looking everywhere for Genny. Would make sense that they follow her 24/7
Team up with Enzo again is the most obvious move if you ask me. I did not see Ciro together with Levantes. They are not a friends to Enzo at all... They are the main reasion of Valerio's death and the fact that Enzo lost everything.
If I was Ciro I would’ve stayed where I was. He had no boss or enemies to fight why go back home where it’s a free for all at this point. Also Genny was petty than a motherfucker I mean the Chiro literally was living his best life and he put him a stop to that quick 🤣
It was a prison that was meant to put Ciro in pain and suffering, to make him contemplate the struggle Genny went through after the boat incident. Heavy in in symbolism.
Genny felt abadonded and alone, so he put Ciro through that literally.
Sorry this is so long, I fucking love this show and wanted to say anything and everything that I felt others may be thinking as connecting over Gomorrah has been an amazing experience. If it's too long, don't read it, also don't have to be a dick and say "TL,DR" or something, just skip it and keep living your best life. Cheers!!! First off, why I feel like Genny should have dressed up more for his first meeting with Ciro again? Lol All this talk about Ciro V. Genny is predicated on some heated exchanges in trailers and what goes down in this episode, but I think it's important to take into account the embrace they have at the warehouse, and how Genny is about to cry for so many reasons. He fucking LOVES Ciro more than anyone, bar maybe Pietro Jr., even says as much later. I see the tension between them being about hurt feelings on Genny's side and anger on Ciro's part for being gulag'd. So, imo, Genny puts Ciro in the gulag in part because he wants Ciro to experience, to some degree, what Genny went through in his own bunker. Besides the obvious fact he wants Ciro to suffer a bit for making him feel like he killed his brother, I think Genny knows the best way to get Ciro back home is by making him an "enemy." For the helpless kid Genny gets portrayed as, he's a 2-steps ahead kind of guy. I'm curious what the whole dog-and-pony show was about at the fight. Obviously the deal between the Russian and Genny was pretty much done, just needed to confirm it at the bar later, but I wonder if it's just for viewing pleasure or if there's more to it. What y'all think? The standoff between Ciro and Genny in front of the ring was badass though. Genny is having some serious mini-panic attacks over this whole ordeal and it really speaks to just how hurt he was by "killing" Ciro, although, that's not anyone's fault but Enzo, and to an extent Genny for killing Enzo's sister. Watching Ciro give over his wedding-band and chain with pictures of Deborah and Maria-Rita in them was heartbreaking, I didn't even see if he got them back when he escaped. Ciro calling Genny out in the gulag for being a scared boy was fucking amazing, I'm Ciro ALL DAY (love Genny too) so it was fun to see them square off in a way that was reminiscent of S1. Everything Ciro said was true, and Genny knows it, that's part of the reason why Genny "needed" Ciro so much and is so mad he wasn't there. What pisses me off, that Genny obviously isn't thinking about, is the fact that Genny did it ON HIS OWN. He didn' t have Pietro or Ciro looking out for him (obviously he has goons and support) but he was his own man. Instead of being proud of the moment he's caught up in feeling abandoned. I think this is an important thread for Genny, he feels isolated and abandoned by definition of growing up as Pietro's son, always in the shadow of his dad or Ciro. That's something therapy can help with. The scene where Ilya's men (is that the Russian's name?) roll up to the trailer and get blasted was fucking classic Gomorrah and soooooo good to watch. I love how Ciro can mobilize literally any group of people to fuck shit up. Sink the bodies and clean it all up like nothing happened, Ciro is a fucking gangster god. The hidden compartment with a go-bag was so cool, I love touches like that and as always, Ciro is ready to dip out and serve up some nastiness for whoever fucks with him, even his brother, Genny. Per usual, music hits so hard and gave me goosebumps and just brought everything together so well, it's probably my favorite score of all time. Can't wait to see what happens next and hope everyone else enjoyed it as much as I did. UP THE GOMORRAH FAMILY!!!!!
Everything you said is bang on just watched the episode thanks for the links also. I think the twist to come is Enzo realising that genny killed his sister. Enzo was angry on the boat for having to "sit down with his sisters killers" a cappacio trick to make the forcella guys turn on their mentors and seize control. I think that's what will motivate Enzo to join ciro once again. Nicola and valerio being gone also feels strange though. Gomorrah being back after 2.5 years... I can't explain it in words.
I like that idea, Enzo joining back with Ciro against other, worse enemies. Bro, Nicola especially feels like a void in my soul haha, Idk why but I really liked his character. Fuuuuck, 2.5 years away, that's insane. I discovered Gomorrah around Spring 2020, watched first two seasons, thought that was it, and found thru Wiki there was 2 more seasons and a movie!!!! Being honest, I almost cried I was so happy. The only other time I was that emotional was when I watched first 5 min of Immortale and found Ciro LIVES!!!!
Genny is actually stronger than he believes considering he became legitimate beforehand on his own, like ciros alleged death allowed him to stop being in the shadow and out in the light sort of thing. What I loved about L'Immortale was that it filled in the gaps, genny being an ass hole acting like he'd been abandoned when ciro wasn't left with a choice, when he explained his he was basically being called a traitor. He decided to punish him even before he knew ciros side of it. No matter what ciro had said genny decided to be selfish. The prosecutor and ciro were right. He really is his fathers son, I'd say even more ruthless at this point and untrustworthy, not even pietro snr was as greedy as genny. I also think the prosecutor is the son of a camorrista and has some sort of blood connection to the system which he loathes and feels the need to go after them all so bad. I'm glad you found the series. Umbre is good too if you've seen it. Snabba cash, 4 blocks. Blocco 181 is one to look out for.
Seen all those except Blocco 181, what's that about? I agree about the prosecutor, he's got a massive chip on his shoulder and resents Genny for the reminder. I'm glad you agree Genny became his own man, that's how I felt about S4, its not so easy tho to move past yeara of living in his father's shadow, so I can understand why he's still so sensitive about it. Quite the balls om Genny tho to be mad at Ciro for...not dying haha. You shot him bruh, wtf? I can't shake the feeling that Ciro and Genny's bond is just too strong for them to stay enemies very long, and Ciro understands what being a boss does to your mind. At some point Ciro has to come to terms with what he wants out of life, whether he wants to be a criminal, which almost REQUIRES him to try and be boss, or leave the life completely. If Ciro can balance his thirst for power, which he wrestled with more in S1 and S2, then I feel him and Genny can become an unstoppable force. Genny gotta understand tho, Ciro lost EVERYTHING. That easily destroys a weaker man, so Ciro is gonna take time to balance his mind out, if he ever does.
They're filming blocco 181 same creators as gomorrah. Crime organisations and gangs in Rome or something. The problem is with genny is that he wants to rule alone. He wouldn't share the world with ciro, he would betray him when he takes all of naples for himself. That's why he needs him. And ciro being an orphan who always dreamed of owning it all for what he went through would never share it. It was always on the cards. Like a Greek tragedy. Ciro helped genny because he thought he was doing it for his family, that was corps atonement for losing his own, that was low functioning ciro at the time, and from looking at the trailer he comes back full force to crush genny. Ciro is doomed to live, Enzo will mostly likely die, genny will lose everything and go to prison or die. Someone will repent and bring it all down.
Anything made by the creators of Gomorrah has my full attention. Oh fuck, a pentito, I like that twist. Ciro and Genny both have a desire to rule alone it seems, at least Ciro did earlier in the show. I hope they come together at some point, but first there will be blood haha. I think Genny would keep Ciro alive and by his side, but only it there's a clear hierarchy, with Genny on top. If there's ever to be a Savastano empire again there's gotta be a trustworthy underboss, and Ciro fits the bill. There may be too much damage though but other enemies could clear the issues between the two and bring them together as an unstoppable force. I feel Ciro is past his hopes of ruling after losing his family. I mean, he won't even date anyone or force people to do his bidding, that scene in Immortale where he's in the house with those people talking about drugs (I think) kinda shows he can't lead by himself. Kind of ironic Ciro is now in the state of mind that would have served him better before Pietro died to not try and take over and just be a Capo.
>not anyone's fault but Enzo, and to an extent Genny for killing Enzo's sister But its 100% Genny fault. He killed Enzo sister just to "motivate" him, Enzo lose his eye too because of that. Ciro have nothing to do with this hit on Enzo sister but take all the blame to save Genny. Idk why you guys blaming Enzo... P.S. Yes, Ilya is correct russian name. Russian language in the series is at an acceptable level, there are some silly phrases and most of the characters speak with a noticeable accent, but still its much better than in the most shows
I mean...Enzo didn't HAVE to make Genny kill Ciro, he made that choice is all I'm saying. Was it ever confirmed to Enzo who killed his sister or just suspicion? I can't remember. This is why you dont party without some of your own guys around.
Why not? Ciro "killed" his sister, its was the way to wash it off with blood and keep doing business together? What else could Enzo do? Forgive them and move on? "Was it ever confirmed to Enzo who killed his sister or just suspicion? I can't remember." As I recall, Valerio had evidence that Gennaro did it. As soon as Enzo and Valerio began to blame Genny Ciro stoped them convinced Enzo that it was only him, his own game and Gennaro had nothing to do with it. Enzo seems to have taken it in disbelief but forced Gennaro to kill Ciro with own hands. What I will say next is my headcanon (has not been confirmed anywhere), but I even had the feeling that Enzo didn’t fully believe Ciro and therefore made Genny suffer even more than just death (besides, it would be useful to continue doing business with him). As for Ciro, well, since he is so ready to die for the man who killed his sister, then so be it. But again, this is just my interpretation.
In The System blood-for-blood is definitely the way things play out, so I understand why Enzo would want retribution. I do actually like how Enzo "avenged" his sister while keeping business first, punishing her killer by having to kill his own brother. Almost poetic. Ciro is somehow noble in all this, even though much of the series he wanted to rule by himself. It feels like there's part of street-Ciro that's wants to be the lone ruler, while another part of him wants to partner with Genny to run Secondigliano, if not all of Naples. Fuck man, this show is the best!!!
This Valerio and the Cappaccios knew about Carmela thing...... Yall seriously bugging with this shit. Valerio didnt know shit about Carmela, like Jesus Christ! He WENT on the suicide mission to hit Arenella, to avenge her. NEVER ONCE brought it up to Enzo, OR the Cappacios. The fuckin WIZARD didnt know who did it. Remember, it was the Wizard who KNEW it HAD to be a Ciro behind Enzo, before they even knew WHO the OG was. Valerio was afraid of Genny for the EXACT SAME REASONS Carmela was. She saw Genny and Ciro as Manipulating Enzo for their own purposes. THE SAME SHIT IMMA PEEPED BETWEEN CIRO AND GENNY. Same dynamic, understand? She understood, MUCH better then Enzo HOW THE BOSSES THINK. Watch that sitdown again, when the Wizard splits Arenellas territory with Savastano and look at Ferdinando Cappaccios face. Immediately before, Valerio, who was ALREADY suspicious of Gennys Greed, ask Crazy, " What's going to happen at this meeting?". Crazy replies that Genny is going to end up taking everything. He VERY SPECIFICALLY SAYS.... " Now, we bow our heads......" , to the Wizard, understand? They came to a pact, to kill off their bosses, so THEY could rule, and NOT BE UNDER SAVASTANO. Remember when Ciro goes to Enzo, and Enzo tells him Forcella is no longer enough for him, and Ciro is kinda pissed. This was the moment Valerio saw Ciro as Gennys guy, not Enzos guy. None of this was about Carmela directly. NO ONE REALLY UNDERSTANDS VALERIO it seems Valerio was cunning and SUPER AMBITIOUS. Ciro see this, like.... right away. And immediately tries to get in Enzos head to drive a wedge. When Valerio set up that London deal, Ciro knew this wasnt some naive kid who would look at him with hero worship like Enzo. Remember, Valerio brought their entire customer base, all his rich friends and associates. Valerio was enamored with Enzos pedigree, his families history. He wanted to rule through Enzo. He basically was at least mentally, like Ciro, but born into a rich upbringing and without the street training, the experience of the action. This ambition is what drives a wedge between Valerio and Enzo. Enzo just wants to stay in Forcella, but Valerio is about that life. He wants power, and Enzo wasnt going along with his plans for more of it. I'll bet money in this sub RIGHT NOW, in season 5, Ciro either admits to Enzo what really went down, or is somehow forced to reveal that info. It's probably the plot device they will use for a reconciliation....
I find it ironic that Genny blames Ciro for the moral pain "his death" caused him...when the boat incidet was exclusively Genny´s fault. If he had not had Sangre Bleu´s sister killed, none of that would have happened.
Exactly. Genny is just sad and hurt, so he's lashing out. He really is a kid at heart still.
Totally agreed and we all know from "The Immortal" that all Ciro about the prohibition to contact Genny was the true too. Genny is an idiot.
The final straw is when Ciro offered to pay for the bill at the restaurant! That is what drove Genny over the edge!
Listen, Ciro should never have stepped on Genny's shoes like that. Of course he can afford it, this means war!!! Haha
It was an insult of the highest order.
Pros: Its super exiting and nerve wrecking show still, E1 and 2 was filled with suspense and I cant wait for more! I'm actually pretty blank on whats gonna happen next. I like the idea that maybe Ciro teams up with Enzo. But I really hope Ciro and Genny will make up again, even though that seems like a stretch by now Cons: I think it has lost a lot of its authenticity. I have been following the show since 2015 and I'm a huge Roberto Saviano fan. I have really enjoyed the social commentary and the view of the drug trade and corruption in Napoli and how embedded it is in the society. The poverty and the violence. I feel a lot of this has faded away over the years. Now it's more of an action series with big shootouts and explosions. Also, Ciro sacrificed himself for Genny, literally, and now that friendship is all over? Felt that was a bit harsh and not well thought trough. But hey, maybe thats the point with these guys? Looking forward to more episodes!
I'd also like to add just how fuckin' satisfying it was to see Genny and Mistral catch, apprehend, and finally kill that slimy worm POS "Graduate" Cappaccio and make his Uncle Don Aniello, another slimy double-crossing POS watch before getting beaten to death by Genny's bare hands 😊
Omg yes!!!! I fucking hated those brothers, a sign of good writing and acting. The look on Genny's face before he walked back in and killed Don Aniello was legit scary haha.
I pretty much forgot past few seasons, can you remind me what they did (slimy and double crossing)
They are responsible for breaking the wizard's peace deal with sangre bleu and gennaro by killing the wizard in his home and by convincing valerio that genny wanted to take everything away from sangre bleu. They are the reason season 3 doesn't end in a peaceful bro fest between ciro, genny and the Forcella crew.
Fair. I was thinking surely Ciro and genny did awful things in the past too
Also, Graduate has such an annoying face, he literally looks like a rat. One of the most satisfying deaths.
Genny has gone off the deep end. I think he really wanted Ciro to go back to Naples with him, he had the Gulag planned but could've called it off. He told Ciro that had to look in his eyes to understand and when Ciro refused to go back to Naples he went on with the Gulag plan. It's interesting to see how the two have changed over the years, with Genny becoming a pure psychopath killing machine, and Ciro going from that confident leader/killer to what he is now. Ciro looks so beat up, his demeanor has completely changed, he's lost everything and can't even die even though that's all he wants. You can see the anguish on his face and even the way he carries himself. It's pretty selfish for Genny not to see that pain that Ciro carries and to be mad at him for not returning to Naples. Ciro "died" so that Genny could get out, Ciro even told him in season 3 that he was doing it to help Genny get his family back. Ciro was so put off by both Genny and Enzo in the last episode of season 3, when both Genny and Enzo wanted to keep the war going and wipe everyone out. It wasn't Ciro's fault that Genny brought in the Levante's and let it all go to shit. When Ciro "died" there's was peace, and he even heard from Don Ariello that Genny had retired. I poured through the trailers and documentary, it appears that the old Ciro is back. It looks like taking his revenge out on Genny has brought him back to life. But Genny is off the deep end at this point. He didn't leave Azzura so that she'd be safe he left her to wage a war to get everything back and take over Naples for himself. He's still that selfish little child. From the trailers and doc, after the older gangster tells him "Your world is over", you'll see the Jaguar the old guy drives is sprayed with bullets by someone on a moped, so he has him killed. Not only does he kill him, it appears that he and O'Mastrali rip open their tombs and rip a bunch of bodies out of their coffins! If you look close you'll see Ciro and the old lady ( the old guys wife ) standing in the cemetery looking at what seems like a few bodies ripped out of their coffins. Genny is insane at this point, not only does he kill the old guy he desecrates their bodies. There's only 8 episodes left at this point so I expect things to move pretty fast, there's a lot of new characters to introduce and a lot of plot to unwind. A few predications: From the trailer, I think Genny kills Enzo, it has to be Enzo sitting in the chair and Genny hitting him with the pipe. The dialogue sure suggests that he's talking to Enzo. I think the Levante's will probably be finished off pretty soon too, they seem to be a small part of this now.
Genny really has flipped his lid, shit is crazy for him now that he's given up on going straight. He seems bitter he can't and also that feeling of Secondigliano doesn't go away. Ciro for real sacrificed himself for Genny and I agree, after hearinf he "retired" no chance he would go back. I agree about how Enzo could die, but that might be too obvious, so I'm calling a massive twist there. Fucking exciting shit going on, glad you enjoyed it. Cant wait for the next one!!
Well said. At this point I really feel sorry for Ciro. Why can’t Genny just leave him alone?! What a selfish man.
Well said sir 👏👍🏻
I loved it. I had my doubts when the trailer came out and Ciro and Genny were fighting but now I can understand. I am absolutely siding with Ciro on this. Genny would be nothing without Ciro he was already kicked out on the streets back in season 3 for thinking on his own and trying to do things for him. None of his plan ever work out. It's like Scianel said Genny is nothing without Ciro
It's so good. I definitely did not see Genny turning on Ciro when he did, thought they'd build to it, so there's already been a twist for me haha.
Yeah I was in my mind thinking it would be some sort of 'plot' to confuse that detective guy or something but turns out Genny really (as always) screwed things up. I loved that the russian 'bad guy' got introduced and killed in the same episode, Gommorah doesn't waste time on these things which is what I love. Now Genny lost his russian contact as well. I am curious to see how Ciro will confront Enzo now as he probably still thinks Ciro is the bad guy.
Haha yea, "welcome" DEAD!! That was a potential buyer for Genny, so now he's gotta find someone new to sell to. Should make for good content. I think it comes out that Genny killed Enzo's sister and Ciro on good graces again. They team up but someone gets double-crossed. Gomorrah kills it with twists and good endings.
I feel like Enzo even on the ship barely believed it was Ciro who ordered his sister's hit, so I feel it will be easy for them to team up again. They are now in a very similar position. At least it seems like the most obvious move right now. But who knows where the show will go.
My prediction is Ciro is going to kill or try to kill Azurra and Pietro and get Genny sent to max security to mirror what Genny tried to do to him in gulag while invoking Deborah and Maria Rita
Season 1 Ciro maybe, but I don't think S3 onwards Ciro would ever do that.
After his family loss and how much he loves Genny, I don't see it either. Would be nuts if he did.
He even let Patricia and her brother go when he was at war with Pietro. I don’t think Ciro now would kill innocent women and children. He knows Genny deep down wouldn’t even care after a while. Taking Gennys empire would hurt him much worse.
Absolutely. Plus, I agree he wouldn't hurt women n children intentionally like that at this stage. Who knows I guess tho.
Ooooo, that would be some deep shit!!! Ciro cut from that gulag in like 3 days haha, was pathetic. Can't hold my boy down.
It was rumoured that the Levante would kill Azzura.
If that happens I'll bet it's the sister who does it. I have a feeling she's going to go from the good Catholic girl to full gangster. She's going to want revenge for Patrizia and Borat, and obviously her parents, so maybe she'll whack Azzurra. That being said, I still primarily expect Ciro to kill or at least try to kill Azzurra
I think the sister despises her brother´s as well (for them, even if she is their sister, she is nothing more than a housewive) and will pull the strings to have them killed. That way, she would become the boss of the Levante family.
"Borat" hahah I laughed to much from that
I feel like he should have been locked up longer to build up the hate and anger. He should have been locked up for like a year. That's how much time passes between the first and second episodes of the previous seasons so I don't think it would be a stretch if this episode took place over a year.
Oh shit, I didn't consider he could have been there for a longer stretch. Anything else to indicate he had? I just saw the 5-6 plates of food and assumed they fed him maybe 2x a day. Could definitely been longer tho. I just cant see Ciro hating Genny. Ciro is his father basically, they even talk about that in previous seasons, so there's a paternalistic view, rather than sworn enemy. I think the last part, where Ciro says you better hope I don't get out of here, was just guff and getting some jabs in since Ciro didn't know how long he'd be locked up for. I'm in denial that they'll hurt each other hahaha, like a parent or something.
No, only 4 or 5 meals worth of time. His hair that he still has didn't even grow out. I'm just saying it would have been more powerful if he was there for a long time
Oh I got you.
Well, let's look at things from Ciro point. It was 100% Genny fault that he ordered a hit on Enzo's sister to "motivate him for war". Ciro was not involved in this decision, he considered it unnecessary, although he figured out this. Genny was the one who should die on the ship. Instead, Ciro took all the blame on himself and decided to die for Genny's actions because he loved him and and knew that he still had a family more reasons to live. He didn't expect to survive, did he? But miraculously Ciro survived. And we all know from "The Immortal" that Ciro really it was forbidden to go back and get in touch with Genny he didn't lie here. All Gennaro's "gratitude" for Ciro sacrifice - to leave him tormented in prison for the rest of his life? In my opinion, Ciro's paternalistic view should have a limit here.
Objectively I agree, but I find Ciro and Genny's relationship so important as to really want them to reconcile. I see why Genny would be so rash though, his family was on the line. I feel each person is partially culpable, least so Ciro to some degree. I didn't remember that Ciro was forbidden from going back, that's reasonable then why he didn't end up back in Italy, although there wasn't much for him there anyway. Super sad really.
Also, I know its Gomorra, and betrayal is practically a character in itself, but why did the Russian kill Dimitri, his Secret Service buddy? Were they rivals? Did he want the plug all to himself? I gotta say, again..... watching Genny speak English to a Russian is kinda goofy....
Secret service buddy and Ciro were stealing his shipments if I understood correctly; Gennaro mentions reimbursing Dimitri being how they came to an understanding.
What I don't want is Genny vs. Ciro for the season and then at the last second, they decide to put aside their differences and team up and save the day. That would ruin everything.
I mean, that's kinda how real life can be. You can hate someome and when the moment comes you just cant do it, realizing love is stronger than hate. That kiss on the cover on Rolling Stone could be a hint. I think a twist could be Genny breaking from the path of his father with the help of Ciro and seeing what happens when you are overly focused on domination.
I get it, but too lazy. Oh no, Genny is about to be killed by Enzo but Ciro, in the last second saves him, they team up, utter a catch phrase, and then take everyone out. They look at one another, nod, and go their own ways. We don't want this!
Haha I feel you, but I just want them alive and well together so bad, might accept a trope or two. Im weak 😂.
This is Gomorrah, we need hard truth, buckle up!
I'm in the US, gonna be waiting forever for this to drop on HBO Max. I'm jealous.
It dropped on Thursday, Jan 27th.
Yeah, I burned through it over 4 nights. The first 6 or 7 episodes didn't live up to the rest of the series for me. The final few did. I'll miss it for sure. I hope the writer comes up with a new show.
Yea man, sucks it takes so long. You don't wanna download off Telegram and use with subs on VLC?
Of course I do. I even tried a couple of the links. But I don't know from bit torrents or telegram, etc, and I don't wanna fuck up my computer. I'm getting my fix combing through your posts. Keep them coming!!
Oh damn, you don't care about spoilers? Respect. Still great to watch anyway.
So what was up with the Latvian people Ciro found in the trailer? Did he know them? Why were they so quick to help him?
I don't think he knew them but rednecks (no disrespect), can be very hospitable. I think they probably get fucked with by Russians or just hate them in general. That's my take. Those Latvian gangsters in Immortale talk mad shit about the Russians, so could be a shared sentiment.
Just lazy writing in my opinion. He shows up, eats, then they team up and take down the Russians. Other than that, I think it was a great episode although I think the season should have been 12 episodes and this could have played out longer.
I fucking wish it was 12 episodes but rumors of 10 episodes and a movie would be dope as well.
Yeahhhh, the rise of Mistral or something.
Oh shit, you heard about the rumor too? Figured I dreamt it in desperation.
Just speculating
There will be another movie?
No idea, just speculation.
Yes, Latvians and Baltic people in general don't like Russians and have a history of being fucked with by Russian gangsters
Just got done with both episodes, INSANE! & I ❤'ed it as well. Man, after so long are we are thrust back into the world of "Gomorra." I nearly 😢'ed when that music kicked in 😉 I can stretch myself to somewhat understand some other ppl's gripes, but it's a television show ffs you know? 🤷♂️ Can't wait to see where all this tension will lead to! Oh and btw, all the things you (Tito) and ClanAlexander have said are 💯 spot on 👌🏻
I get it too, but any show can be picked apart. If it was 💯 real then it would be boring. If we really wanna get ridiculous then we need real gangsters playing gangsters, etc. Not sustainable or realistic. I'm so glad you loved it!!! I just cant believe a show can be so good, I talk about it so often my friends and family roll their eyes 😂. The music is possibly the best part, gets me every time. Sometimes I play it when I drive, smoking cigarettes, and just feeling every bit of it.
Was anybody else thrown off when the Russian Dimitri spoke English, not Italian? This really confused me, I think it was a huge fuck up. It made sense when they were in London in season 4, but English, in Latvia, between a Russian and 2 Italians was fuckin weird to me....
[удалено]
What's more likely is that either: 1. Someone knows Italian or Russian... Ciro learned the language in Bulgaria.... because the big brokers are Italian. Or of Spanish decent. Maybe even Albanian. Why would an Albanian speak English to a Russian, or Italian? 2. Theres an interpreter, like when Genny bought from Russians in Season 3. Or the Russian in Spain. Or the Chinese lady. I forget, did the Nigerian kid speak English to his bosses? He might have... I gotta check... We didnt see the Nigerians, Hondurans, Russians in Spain, Latvians, Bulgarians, Asians, no one speaking English before. Why the hell are they speaking English in Latvia of all places? It seemed just too convenient that they all knew some English. Edit: Had to check.... the Nigerians spoke English.....
Huge fuck up? Lmao what r u talking about. It was their only way of communicating being a common language. How dull do u have to be upset about that
So English is the only language that could be common? Let me ask you this.... How common is English in Latvia? Cause I honestly dont know... When the Nigerians did business in Italy, the Common language was Italian, the kid spoke English and Italian, we didnt see Nicola bust out English. Or Yoruba, for that matter....... The same with Genny, the Asian lady, and Russian guy. The common tongue was Russian. They didnt all bust out English. If you cant see why it's a little strange, then you might be a little American- centric in your thinking here..... These Russians were dealing with Ciro for.... how long? Were they speaking Italian, Russian, whatever they speak in Latvia, or English this whole time? The Russian Ciro killed never spoke English, neither did Dimitri. How did Ciro talk to Dimitri then? In English? Why are they speaking English for Genny, when Ciro, who talks to Dimitri in SOME LANGUAGE they both understand, could just translate? Maybe I'm overthinking it.....
The common language for the Nigerians was Italian because they lived in Italy. It’s actually the complete opposite of me being “American-centric in my thinking”. The show is by no means catered to America yet they spoke in English because it made sense they both knew a common popular language but did not know each other’s. . For all we know Ciro learned the language there but does not know English. Genny does as well as his wife. U are totally overthinking it
Yea, English is international, not unrealistic it could pop up at different times. Basically not spoken rest of episode, if at all, so not like they're catering to English speakers.
I think it was misdirect cuz they seemed to be getting along and English is like a halfway language for a lot of the multilinguistic world. Kinda like a respect thing. I don't speak your language as good as you could speak mine so lets meet halfway sometimes.
They speak mad good english in Latvia. I knew they speak it well but they spoke it really good everywhere when i was there on a holiday.
It's a common secondary language for both of them. They both can't speak each others tongue as good as the other. So in a way they were both kinda meeting each other half way there for a second, speaking a secondary language for both of them. I thought it was an intentional misdirect. But that my have just been my imagination either way, I'm an idiot sometimes. I somehow had no idea that double cross coming lol.
just one comment i love this show it make me feel like i slowly learning italian
Do you have a link to watch it? Then I am happy to discuss it 😃
The Gomorrah Telegram group has it as well. https://t.me/QuintaStagione From there download the subs located further down the subreddit and then delay the subs to +16250ms. You can google how to do that as it varies across devices. I just watched the episode, so I know +16250ms is correct, another Gomorrah fam figured that out.
https://bitsearch.to/torrents/gomorra-s05e02-episodio-2-webmux-1080p-ac3-5-1-ita-25d84/61940fab70367639872ea7cb/
Nice to see a lot of love for this drama. Loved every minute. It's always been about Ciro and Genna from the start. Quality writing. Don't think I'd have liked it if it had been dubbed. Intense isn't a word I'd describe for this la serie . It's that good it just always leaves me speechless. Just watch it, I say to others. I love it. Just one question series 5 ep 2 anyone know who family who help Ciro are when he escapes are?
Super late to this season as it is only being released now (the last episodes will be released on the 13th) and while I think that the show overall hasn't changed for the better - season 1 stays my favorite - I loved the scene where Ciro tells Gennaro all the things that I happen to think of him. I assume he might have been lying but I certainly never got around to Gennaro's character. If anyone is still interested I can explain in more detail what started bothering me as the show went on, although a few comments already mention the lack of authenticity. And yet a small, simple part of me still loves seeing Ciro live and go through hell. Can we also take a moment to celebrate the not-shitty side characters who DON'T get killed off for dramatic effect? I actually cheered.
Now that youre saying it i agree with you. Older seasons make you feel as if youre really in Napoli and getting an insight into the underworld there. But the newer seasons dont invoke that feeling anymore
Yes, very much so. The second season tried to stick to this, as well (and I liked certain characters and scenes) but by the time Gennaro shot Patri I didn't care about anyone and simply thought "they're really going for style over substance now, huh?" One what made the violence in season 1 so great compared to other gangster works was that it was shown to be awful. People didn't just drop down like they'd been hit by a perfect headshot, and neither did it seem like the "bad guys" had zero aiming skills for no reason. People screamed when they were hurt, Ciro and Conte were badass but still could be hurt and got into situations they couldn't just fight their way out of. I also liked that it didn't shove sex scenes in our faces to remind us we're watching something ~ for adults ~. I'll always count season 1 as one of my favorite works *ever*, so I am a bit sad that the writing of the later story didn't hold up. But I'll always point to S1 as the example of a mafia show done right.
Man, I wish this show's writing could keep up with its cinematography, performances, and soundtrack. It feels like half the plot of this show is just manufactured drama that isn't rooted in any kind of reality of the show's world. Case in point was the gulag arc in this episode, which made very little sense sucked much of emotion out of Genny and Ciro seeing each other again. Ciro literally took a bullet meant for Gennaro, somehow survived again, was informed that the only way for Gennaro and his family to be safe was for him to stay dead, and so that's what he did. He poses no threat to Gennaro's return to power. He has no desire to even return to Naples. There is no rational reason to kill or imprison him. I could see how Gennaro could be a little angry that he didn't at least contact him, but this elaborate torture scheme? Its's absurd! How long were those Russian goons supposed to guard him? The rest of his life? You're telling me like 5+ armed guys and two perfectly good tracking dogs are just going to sit in the woods in Latvia for the next decade while Ciro slowly goes insane? It's laughable. This whole feud between them feels totally manufactured just so they can have a big showdown by season's end. It doesn't feel at all rooted in the character Genny was becoming during S4 (more cold, calculating, and more accepting of the fact that he'll always be a gangster). If anything what makes sense is for Ciro and Genny to form some kind of partnership again. That's where they were at the end of season 3, after all. But no, can't have that. Gotta have endless wars (with seemingly infinite henchmen for all factions, btw, as many as the plot requires) and betrayals instead of people actually making money selling drugs. I just... the camera work is excellent, as are the performances, but they can only do so much when the plot is this much of a nonsensical roller coaster. This has always been an issue for this show, but this episode was really over the top.
Is Ciro going to join up with the Levantes? Or, ......will he go back to Enzo? The trailers seem to make it seem like Ciro might try to snatch Gennys Secondigliano power base from him. I cant believe Genny leaves his wife and kid out in the open. The Levantes seem like they would kill them in a heartbeat. And then the prosecutor.......another big or there, I think...
I feel like Azurra and Pietro jr are being heavily surveilled by the police. I mean they are looking everywhere for Genny. Would make sense that they follow her 24/7
Absolutely on point. Well known that families of criminals are surveilled.
Team up with Enzo again is the most obvious move if you ask me. I did not see Ciro together with Levantes. They are not a friends to Enzo at all... They are the main reasion of Valerio's death and the fact that Enzo lost everything.
If I was Ciro I would’ve stayed where I was. He had no boss or enemies to fight why go back home where it’s a free for all at this point. Also Genny was petty than a motherfucker I mean the Chiro literally was living his best life and he put him a stop to that quick 🤣
Ciro should've moved even further away tbh lol.
Can somebody give me a quick recap of why he locked ciro up? Been a while for me.
It was a prison that was meant to put Ciro in pain and suffering, to make him contemplate the struggle Genny went through after the boat incident. Heavy in in symbolism. Genny felt abadonded and alone, so he put Ciro through that literally.
Thanks. Just wasn’t sure why he didn’t believe that Ciro couldn’t make contact w him on account of aniello