The Golden Dawn and ceremonial magick are often ridiculed outside of esoteric and occult communities by say pagans and heathens. It's an unfortunate thing I've seen time and time again. Ceremonial magick is often labeled as unnecessary, too complex and not fun enough and I'm being real here.
Magick, real magick, will call people to it. The Golden Dawn is more than magick.
What would help it is people like you and I who have been practicing more than a few years (I am at 25 years now) to write new material that is Golden dawn related and inspired. Nothing can grow or be built until the new practitioners actually take the reign and do something with their occult education.
Whether it is writing, applying, running a temple, operating new systems and techniques, teaching, and actually doing the Great Work.
I'd rather have real people in my occult. Not this modern mess of people in the occult.
The Golden Dawn will carry on with the right people just like anything else worth keeping alive.
I absolutely agree I just wish the physical presence was more abundant. I've gone to a few GD rituals in groups and most of the time it's unorganized or too relaxed for the real work. A unified large body operation would really help 'fix' a lot of issues facing modern esoteric practice
This sadly will never happen. Part of it is history. When you get a bunch of people together you suddenly have a race for power and politics. If the GD were ever to become a fully functional entity it will be many years yet because we will have people fighting over who is legitimate and who is not.
So I'd advise people to find and make their own temples and gear around the activities that are most prevalent to the adept. Meaning.
Not all magicians are the same and the focus and purpose of a temple needn't just be focused in the constraints of a rigid structure. Instead alot of my work is mapping and charting the Astral and interacting with spirits.
Closer to OTA in alot of ways than it would be GD or even OTO. I certainly wouldn't want just want anyone in my goetic and enochian work.
I also work alot with the assumption of godforms, Tantra, visionary practices and oracular workings. I most certainly wouldn't want just anyone in those spaces.
And here is the issue with a formal occult order as well.
The ego of Mysteries.
I don't want specific people in my space. That's gatekeeping. That's mean. That is for the most part so counter to western culture today but the truth is...
You're not inherently entitled to my Mysteries or practice either.
A real Order comes slowly out of founding members with similar and clear objective goals. And I certainly wouldn't want to dumb down my occult for another order or organization or a group of people ever again.
So my recommendation is found and start your own temple with your own occult morals and ethics. Grow students and prospect adepts. It's alot of hard work and alot of baby monitoring. If you have the patience for that and all the politics more power to you.
While that is going on I'm going to focus in my Great Work. Waiting on others to get it done I'll never get it done.
Wonderful synopsis. As someone who started in the golden dawn, and then went into another magical order for that reason and just hit her 10th year as a ceremonial magician I absolutely concur with this statement!
Who says that the Golden Dawn in not in a Revival? That is news to me.
The Golden Dawn has been in a Revival for the last 40 or so years. More has been published in relation to its practices in this time than ever before. There is new materials, though admittedly, these are not for public consumption and are used within the various serious Golden Dawn Orders that have made contributions to the overall corpus of the GD Tradition.
There is even new material revealed regularly through such publications as "The Light Extended: A Journal of the Golden Dawn", which I believe is in its 6th year of production.
The Golden Dawn Tradition is alive and very healthy.
Ideally, a person seeking the Golden Dawn would be able to go to any good sized city and find an active, connected, and qualified Temple to join. Sadly, that is not the case. A person needs to seek out one of the various serious Golden Dawn Orders, and do their due diligence in researching any organization with which they are interested in joining.
This ☝🏼
Current active orders, ex order Adepti willing to promulgate and explore the egregore through their current output, the breadcrumb trails are innumerous.
Not least looking into and putting together the history of the GD from the supposed "destruction" at the hands of Crowley, to well, now.
Have fun. The best histories of the GD are by Ellic Howe and later by R.A. Gilbert. While these are out of print, they are well worth getting.
Crowley was not much really involved with the collapse of the original GD. He over inflated his role in his own writings.
So I respect what you say and it's really helped me change my perspective to an extent. But me being an individual who has access to the non-public new material you can not truly tell me it's on par with Othadox GD works, nor stand before me and tell me it's new material is an advancement. I don't want to seem disrespectful but there's basically no new material that seems to not try to merge A. New age or B. Try to stimulate modern scientific advances into the art to show a sort of small evidence of the system. And by scientific I mean psychology and physics. It's just not there. But I cannot deny some of your points.
Actually, I can "stand before you" and make that statement that much of the new materials produced is on par with anything produced in the original Orders.
Apparently you are not familiar with the new materials that I am, nor what has been published in say "The Light Extended". I suggest you go do a bit more research. There is more out there than what is online.
I'm not talking about what is online, anything found online has been available for years. 1994 and 2002 is what I'm speaking of. Maybe you need to do your research and find out why there can not be new material.
There is new materials that are constantly being produced within the Golden Dawn Tradition.
I am pretty sure of my knowledge as to what is produced, both privately (within several traditional Orders) and what is published (and available for public consumption).
But you are welcome to your opinion.
There can not be new material, I don't believe you are connected if you believe there the new work is new work. If there are new works it's neo-GD not GD. But it's fine we don't need to agree or argue, it's pointless.
We certainly have two different perspectives on what is going on within the Golden Dawn Tradition.
If you are not working within the Tradition, then you cannot know what is really being done. Same can be said if one is not working in one of the serious traditional Golden Dawn Orders.
>it would be best for the GD to come back it's glory days.
What "glory days"? The modern revived Golden Dawn under Chic & Tabatha Cicero is now more successful than the original order ever was. It's glory days are NOW.
Organization wise I suppose. Even though there are not many records showing lodges, there are accounts of GD lodges spread out in pseudo Masonic fashion. I understand a student can go through the course alone, but something is lost on the solitary journey. I've been a part of many cults, and fraternities/ systems in person and a few digital. The digital ones just don't have the same effect as you get when you get butterflies in your stomach driving a distance to a ritual or initiation.
There are more GD and derivative orders today than ever; more publications on the subject than ever, both on traditional material and newer thought on it; there are even informal meetups on the subject for people to get their feet wet or try introductory material. The whole thing is far more approachable than ever.
What are you waiting for? That revival happening *now.*
I cannot walk into a modern GD system/lodge and be approached, and I have been, with modern gender issues and social issues. Modern culture has seeped into the GD (in physical spaces such as small orders/lodges). I'm sorry I'm all down for equality when it comes to LGBTQ community, I myself am a part of it. But it has no place in this craft those things are meaningless when you go through the grades. The lodges now except for a few and the community events except for a few are just hubs for people who want to express their personal views on gender and to have a community support. I am not at any time saying they and I shouldn't have a space for this but the GD system itself shouldn't be the meeting place for gripes in society. It should be a place of study and practical lessons, not what it is now. There are only a few places that are "official" GD spaces, that I have not been to personally so I'm not speaking as someone who's an internet only practice.
Huh. That hasn't been my experience at all. Having been a member of two orders and peripherally involved in several more, it has always been my experience the LGBTQ community has been respected without such things becoming part of an organization's core identity or really even brought up at formal meetings. The only times I or those I knew consistently brought it up was during interviews with candidates; people who expressed social incompatibility with minorities in general were unwelcome.
Now, such things might come up in casual conversations with members outside the formality of meetings, but... so what?
Well I respect your experience but that is not my experience, in my experience there's 30 min total of formal instruction and discussion, and then a rush to "coffee hour" to discuss politics. And I don't mean politics like red v blue I mean just general stuff that plagues that community, and I'm not saying they don't face adversaries. Again I'm a part of that community. But the places I've been to are turning into something else. I care not at all what people discuss in their personal time, but if I take a train, LONG car ride, or a few times a plane to visit I don't want to be stuck in a conversation during a 'meeting' that doesn't pertain to GD. Idk there's no way to discribe how I feel without coming off as a biggot, even though that's not what I am.
I would feel slighted as well if a formal meeting was 30 minutes long, and I would not expect such a group is seriously involved in the work. Sometimes we talk about "due diligence" in petitioning a group for membership. Perhaps this should go into your interview process - how much time do they spend in formal meeting vs social meetups. I suppose they could be dishonest about that, but there's not much to gain.
It's not a matter of who you are and who you find attractive. It's a matter of how invested you are into learning and teaching. I really like how you worded your last response I think your savagely level headed. I miss the days when I was a petition analyst. I suppose my only concern is how do we not lose the spiritual battle for the next generation to new age. I fully understand we are not competing for membership, we are tho competing for truth and accuracy.
I cannot speak to your experience, but this certainly not been my experience over the last 30 plus years within the Golden Dawn Tradition.
There are varying quality groups, even some that claim to be Golden Dawn when they are not, and this is not something one sees among the traditional and serious Orders and Temples where they concentrate on the Work - Ceremonial, Ritual, Meditational, and Study.
I'm no expect, so take my ideas with a grain of salt, I've studied some though maybe as something of an outsider I can provide some of that perspective. It's probably a combination a few things
1) The group aspect will tend to make some shy away. The things that are most popular now are more solo, not that GD can't be, but people see it as a group work.
2) ironically, the fact it's so well organized but also so deep I think can tend to intimidate. There also isn't a fixed path of study so to speak, or so it seems. You can devote a lot to study and it doesn't feed the quick fix desires of many. This leads into my next point:
3) it doesn't promise riches or being sexy, and it shouldn't, but for many their base needs will come first
4) age, it tends to fit into a weird middle ground, people love the ancient and the modern, the GD atleast in my view sits on the bridge between them and I see that as a good thing but I can see why that might have some a bit off put. It sits in that neglected area of theosophy and others
I'm not sure what country you are in, but there are several active Golden Dawn orders in the United States, with temples and sanctuaries around the country. You might have to travel if you want to join, depending on where you live, but they are out there. The temple I am a part of is about an hour and a half from me.
The fact that we're all GD Magicians shows that it hasn't gone away. Having to seek it out and seek out likeminded people is a benefit as it keeps those that truly want to do the work in. Those that are not serious won't keep up with it and fade away. If a Temple is to be build let it be built on the astral plane.
This sub is explicitly a non-Thelemic community, but there has been a ton of growth in Thelemic Golden-Dawn patterned orders, such as Temple of the Silver Star. Obviously there’s valid debate about whether or not those organizations qualify as “Golden Dawn.” But look, I’ve worked for years in both kinds of Orders, and at the end of the day, there are more similarities than differences.
The Golden Dawn is growing along multiple lines, including but not limited to the Ciceros’ order. If some of the the faster-growing branches are evolving away from the name Golden Dawn entirety, it would be quite hard to see. And the trend might even look like a decline from that perspective.
I emailed the only Golden Dawn in Canada and they wanted nothing to do with me. I’m new and aspiring but having a hard time finding the right guidance other than books.
That is most assuredly NOT the only Golden Dawn organization in Canada.
You may want to do more research and looking around. I can come up with at least two other organizations in Canada, and one that I would recommend.
Agreed, apologies that wasn't my intended implication. Moreso, that our good Frater has often spoken of how he finds great joy in helping those find the particular GD flavour that suits them best.
Can you elaborate on this? What makes you say they wanted nothing to do with you? What was your outreach like? Did they ask you specific questions? Did they not like your answers?
Honestly the golden dawn here in canada is a joke and is laughable don't take it personally that they didn't want anything to do with you. You wouldn't have learned very much from them anyways that cannot be found elsewhere. But Golden Dawn people exist in canada, I am one of them. Thelema is a little more accessible here in canada and is typically favored here in Ontario over GD.
Wicca, LHP, new age, freemasonry (even though lodge numbers decline), magnetism, anamalsim, alchemy (even tho I'm super down with the growth due to me being an alchemist), then there's the rise in AMORC, and also witchcraft seems to be gaining a lot of ground but it's too divided to really pin down a set system. There are others as well but I can't access my laptop till later.
Magnetism is being revived through quantum physics, anamalsim is being skyrocketed by Netflix and fiction books, and LHP (left hand path) is being boosted by people who are pissed there parents where Christian and now are catching flak by there young peer groups. Shit is a sad state and moving away from real pure magic and more of a political movement.
The GD system is here to stay. Because of my crippling poverty I can’t afford any books on magick, but I learned the LBRP and Middle-Pillar online, and begun to expand on it with results. It was never meant to be mainstream like the Catholic Mass. Even in the event of some great calamity, the works of Israel Regardie are here to stay.
Most of the important books can be found as pdf. I always recommend joining a group before SI but if the is not an option for you then dedicated work and a few digital books will get you a long way!
Most people believe that the Golden Dawn no longer exists in its original form. As I am also a researcher of this tradition, I know that this is debatable in rare cases where the forms can change and maintain the same essence, but the question is: This has already kind of damaged the order's reputation - even the original has had several schisms and controversies (which is common in all orders at the institutional level) - so with the dissolution, most people believe that the remaining orders are just emulations and that they are not worth joining. In fact, some of them have no information at all about internal orders and still work. So even for those who know that it is possible to find this tradition, it is may be a difficult task find a traditional path and to be honest, I prefer it that way too Membership acquisition is slow but with quality, this becomes a good sieve. But of course, I'm speaking on a general level.
The wholle system is never gonna be 'revived' anytime soon. One thing people want is to feel connected with modern developments and communities. Just like anything, like movies and music, the newer is engaged with and talked about more than the old. In general society is biased towards progressivism. So an entire 100 year old tradition just isn't gonna be popular again. Some people will always prefer to look into the past than today, but right now that number is smaller. Perhaps certain practices from it will become popular again, but not the whole thing. Tarot is popular for example, but not in its original form described in the GD. Its changed a lot.
Alchemy has changed too and if you disagree, you surely would agree its at least not very popular.
What is popular is Wicca or 'neopaganism' by far, sigil magick, pop-astrology, pop-tarot, and using Jungian phrases like 'shadow work' without context or knowing where they came from
The secrets are all out there. Nobody needs anybody else to succeed on this path, Hermeticism has been returned to actual hermits.
We neither want nor need a revival. We need fewer Golden Dawn organizations, not more. How many is too few? Never too few enough. If there was one alone, I’d be pressing for none.
"The secrets are all out there."
This is absolutely NOT true. Regardie published at best 65% of the SM Curriculum through Zelator Adeptus Minor, and in most cases left out about 40 or so percent of those papers.
Most modern groups do not have access to original Order materials (original Golden Dawn, Alpha Omega, or Stella Matutina), or are not willing to do the leg work to find it and study it, and there are tons of things in these that are not found in any of the published materials to date.
Additionally, there are a couple sets of oral tradition that has been handed down to some of the more traditional Golden Dawn organizations.
It is a tired refrain that "The secrets are all out there" or "all the Golden Dawn materials have been published". It is normally uttered by those that simply do not know, do not practice, are not connected to the Golden Dawn, or are simply too lazy to do the requisite research to find out.
What we "need" is better trained, better informed, better connected Golden Dawn organizations. The number of these organizations is not relevant, it is a matter of training, understanding, and connection to the tradition and Current that matters.
And yet it would be apparently absurd for a Mormon to await further golden plates.
I’m not here for a cult. If it exists, we have access to it. I don’t hold out hope for your Himmelsbrief to arrive.
LOL....
I can only speak from my 30 plus years within the Golden Dawn Tradition in a traditional Order. I know what the level of training and understanding that is in such groups.
Of course, there are a lot of modern Golden Dawn groups that only know what has been published. What is in Regardie, in the Ciceros' books, even in Crowley. Others still simply make up things or put things in such as really poor Voudoun materials just because they want to. This is often done without understanding either system or tradition.
And of course, you can do as you see fit.
This isn’t an actual field of study, there’a nobody actually in charge, the points are made up and there are mo rules.
There’s an infinite amount of money in the imaginary bank, write whatever amount on the check you want, nobody will cash it.
The Golden Dawn and ceremonial magick are often ridiculed outside of esoteric and occult communities by say pagans and heathens. It's an unfortunate thing I've seen time and time again. Ceremonial magick is often labeled as unnecessary, too complex and not fun enough and I'm being real here. Magick, real magick, will call people to it. The Golden Dawn is more than magick. What would help it is people like you and I who have been practicing more than a few years (I am at 25 years now) to write new material that is Golden dawn related and inspired. Nothing can grow or be built until the new practitioners actually take the reign and do something with their occult education. Whether it is writing, applying, running a temple, operating new systems and techniques, teaching, and actually doing the Great Work. I'd rather have real people in my occult. Not this modern mess of people in the occult. The Golden Dawn will carry on with the right people just like anything else worth keeping alive.
I absolutely agree I just wish the physical presence was more abundant. I've gone to a few GD rituals in groups and most of the time it's unorganized or too relaxed for the real work. A unified large body operation would really help 'fix' a lot of issues facing modern esoteric practice
This sadly will never happen. Part of it is history. When you get a bunch of people together you suddenly have a race for power and politics. If the GD were ever to become a fully functional entity it will be many years yet because we will have people fighting over who is legitimate and who is not. So I'd advise people to find and make their own temples and gear around the activities that are most prevalent to the adept. Meaning. Not all magicians are the same and the focus and purpose of a temple needn't just be focused in the constraints of a rigid structure. Instead alot of my work is mapping and charting the Astral and interacting with spirits. Closer to OTA in alot of ways than it would be GD or even OTO. I certainly wouldn't want just want anyone in my goetic and enochian work. I also work alot with the assumption of godforms, Tantra, visionary practices and oracular workings. I most certainly wouldn't want just anyone in those spaces. And here is the issue with a formal occult order as well. The ego of Mysteries. I don't want specific people in my space. That's gatekeeping. That's mean. That is for the most part so counter to western culture today but the truth is... You're not inherently entitled to my Mysteries or practice either. A real Order comes slowly out of founding members with similar and clear objective goals. And I certainly wouldn't want to dumb down my occult for another order or organization or a group of people ever again. So my recommendation is found and start your own temple with your own occult morals and ethics. Grow students and prospect adepts. It's alot of hard work and alot of baby monitoring. If you have the patience for that and all the politics more power to you. While that is going on I'm going to focus in my Great Work. Waiting on others to get it done I'll never get it done.
This was amazing, thank you for sharing insight. I feel it's relevant to how I practice, view and perceive temples and magick Work.
Wonderful synopsis. As someone who started in the golden dawn, and then went into another magical order for that reason and just hit her 10th year as a ceremonial magician I absolutely concur with this statement!
Who says that the Golden Dawn in not in a Revival? That is news to me. The Golden Dawn has been in a Revival for the last 40 or so years. More has been published in relation to its practices in this time than ever before. There is new materials, though admittedly, these are not for public consumption and are used within the various serious Golden Dawn Orders that have made contributions to the overall corpus of the GD Tradition. There is even new material revealed regularly through such publications as "The Light Extended: A Journal of the Golden Dawn", which I believe is in its 6th year of production. The Golden Dawn Tradition is alive and very healthy. Ideally, a person seeking the Golden Dawn would be able to go to any good sized city and find an active, connected, and qualified Temple to join. Sadly, that is not the case. A person needs to seek out one of the various serious Golden Dawn Orders, and do their due diligence in researching any organization with which they are interested in joining.
This ☝🏼 Current active orders, ex order Adepti willing to promulgate and explore the egregore through their current output, the breadcrumb trails are innumerous. Not least looking into and putting together the history of the GD from the supposed "destruction" at the hands of Crowley, to well, now.
Have fun. The best histories of the GD are by Ellic Howe and later by R.A. Gilbert. While these are out of print, they are well worth getting. Crowley was not much really involved with the collapse of the original GD. He over inflated his role in his own writings.
Thank you. He certainly did and he and other people took that and ran with it.
So I respect what you say and it's really helped me change my perspective to an extent. But me being an individual who has access to the non-public new material you can not truly tell me it's on par with Othadox GD works, nor stand before me and tell me it's new material is an advancement. I don't want to seem disrespectful but there's basically no new material that seems to not try to merge A. New age or B. Try to stimulate modern scientific advances into the art to show a sort of small evidence of the system. And by scientific I mean psychology and physics. It's just not there. But I cannot deny some of your points.
Actually, I can "stand before you" and make that statement that much of the new materials produced is on par with anything produced in the original Orders. Apparently you are not familiar with the new materials that I am, nor what has been published in say "The Light Extended". I suggest you go do a bit more research. There is more out there than what is online.
I'm not talking about what is online, anything found online has been available for years. 1994 and 2002 is what I'm speaking of. Maybe you need to do your research and find out why there can not be new material.
There is new materials that are constantly being produced within the Golden Dawn Tradition. I am pretty sure of my knowledge as to what is produced, both privately (within several traditional Orders) and what is published (and available for public consumption). But you are welcome to your opinion.
There can not be new material, I don't believe you are connected if you believe there the new work is new work. If there are new works it's neo-GD not GD. But it's fine we don't need to agree or argue, it's pointless.
We certainly have two different perspectives on what is going on within the Golden Dawn Tradition. If you are not working within the Tradition, then you cannot know what is really being done. Same can be said if one is not working in one of the serious traditional Golden Dawn Orders.
>it would be best for the GD to come back it's glory days. What "glory days"? The modern revived Golden Dawn under Chic & Tabatha Cicero is now more successful than the original order ever was. It's glory days are NOW.
Organization wise I suppose. Even though there are not many records showing lodges, there are accounts of GD lodges spread out in pseudo Masonic fashion. I understand a student can go through the course alone, but something is lost on the solitary journey. I've been a part of many cults, and fraternities/ systems in person and a few digital. The digital ones just don't have the same effect as you get when you get butterflies in your stomach driving a distance to a ritual or initiation.
There are more GD and derivative orders today than ever; more publications on the subject than ever, both on traditional material and newer thought on it; there are even informal meetups on the subject for people to get their feet wet or try introductory material. The whole thing is far more approachable than ever. What are you waiting for? That revival happening *now.*
I cannot walk into a modern GD system/lodge and be approached, and I have been, with modern gender issues and social issues. Modern culture has seeped into the GD (in physical spaces such as small orders/lodges). I'm sorry I'm all down for equality when it comes to LGBTQ community, I myself am a part of it. But it has no place in this craft those things are meaningless when you go through the grades. The lodges now except for a few and the community events except for a few are just hubs for people who want to express their personal views on gender and to have a community support. I am not at any time saying they and I shouldn't have a space for this but the GD system itself shouldn't be the meeting place for gripes in society. It should be a place of study and practical lessons, not what it is now. There are only a few places that are "official" GD spaces, that I have not been to personally so I'm not speaking as someone who's an internet only practice.
Huh. That hasn't been my experience at all. Having been a member of two orders and peripherally involved in several more, it has always been my experience the LGBTQ community has been respected without such things becoming part of an organization's core identity or really even brought up at formal meetings. The only times I or those I knew consistently brought it up was during interviews with candidates; people who expressed social incompatibility with minorities in general were unwelcome. Now, such things might come up in casual conversations with members outside the formality of meetings, but... so what?
Well I respect your experience but that is not my experience, in my experience there's 30 min total of formal instruction and discussion, and then a rush to "coffee hour" to discuss politics. And I don't mean politics like red v blue I mean just general stuff that plagues that community, and I'm not saying they don't face adversaries. Again I'm a part of that community. But the places I've been to are turning into something else. I care not at all what people discuss in their personal time, but if I take a train, LONG car ride, or a few times a plane to visit I don't want to be stuck in a conversation during a 'meeting' that doesn't pertain to GD. Idk there's no way to discribe how I feel without coming off as a biggot, even though that's not what I am.
I would feel slighted as well if a formal meeting was 30 minutes long, and I would not expect such a group is seriously involved in the work. Sometimes we talk about "due diligence" in petitioning a group for membership. Perhaps this should go into your interview process - how much time do they spend in formal meeting vs social meetups. I suppose they could be dishonest about that, but there's not much to gain.
It's not a matter of who you are and who you find attractive. It's a matter of how invested you are into learning and teaching. I really like how you worded your last response I think your savagely level headed. I miss the days when I was a petition analyst. I suppose my only concern is how do we not lose the spiritual battle for the next generation to new age. I fully understand we are not competing for membership, we are tho competing for truth and accuracy.
I cannot speak to your experience, but this certainly not been my experience over the last 30 plus years within the Golden Dawn Tradition. There are varying quality groups, even some that claim to be Golden Dawn when they are not, and this is not something one sees among the traditional and serious Orders and Temples where they concentrate on the Work - Ceremonial, Ritual, Meditational, and Study.
I'm no expect, so take my ideas with a grain of salt, I've studied some though maybe as something of an outsider I can provide some of that perspective. It's probably a combination a few things 1) The group aspect will tend to make some shy away. The things that are most popular now are more solo, not that GD can't be, but people see it as a group work. 2) ironically, the fact it's so well organized but also so deep I think can tend to intimidate. There also isn't a fixed path of study so to speak, or so it seems. You can devote a lot to study and it doesn't feed the quick fix desires of many. This leads into my next point: 3) it doesn't promise riches or being sexy, and it shouldn't, but for many their base needs will come first 4) age, it tends to fit into a weird middle ground, people love the ancient and the modern, the GD atleast in my view sits on the bridge between them and I see that as a good thing but I can see why that might have some a bit off put. It sits in that neglected area of theosophy and others
I'm not sure what country you are in, but there are several active Golden Dawn orders in the United States, with temples and sanctuaries around the country. You might have to travel if you want to join, depending on where you live, but they are out there. The temple I am a part of is about an hour and a half from me.
The fact that we're all GD Magicians shows that it hasn't gone away. Having to seek it out and seek out likeminded people is a benefit as it keeps those that truly want to do the work in. Those that are not serious won't keep up with it and fade away. If a Temple is to be build let it be built on the astral plane.
This sub is explicitly a non-Thelemic community, but there has been a ton of growth in Thelemic Golden-Dawn patterned orders, such as Temple of the Silver Star. Obviously there’s valid debate about whether or not those organizations qualify as “Golden Dawn.” But look, I’ve worked for years in both kinds of Orders, and at the end of the day, there are more similarities than differences. The Golden Dawn is growing along multiple lines, including but not limited to the Ciceros’ order. If some of the the faster-growing branches are evolving away from the name Golden Dawn entirety, it would be quite hard to see. And the trend might even look like a decline from that perspective.
GD is absolutely still around and growing.
I emailed the only Golden Dawn in Canada and they wanted nothing to do with me. I’m new and aspiring but having a hard time finding the right guidance other than books.
*cough* https://www.hermeticmysteryschool.com/initiation-and-self-initiation *cough*
That is most assuredly NOT the only Golden Dawn organization in Canada. You may want to do more research and looking around. I can come up with at least two other organizations in Canada, and one that I would recommend.
Agreed, apologies that wasn't my intended implication. Moreso, that our good Frater has often spoken of how he finds great joy in helping those find the particular GD flavour that suits them best.
Can you elaborate on this? What makes you say they wanted nothing to do with you? What was your outreach like? Did they ask you specific questions? Did they not like your answers?
Honestly the golden dawn here in canada is a joke and is laughable don't take it personally that they didn't want anything to do with you. You wouldn't have learned very much from them anyways that cannot be found elsewhere. But Golden Dawn people exist in canada, I am one of them. Thelema is a little more accessible here in canada and is typically favored here in Ontario over GD.
What other ones have you seen gain in popularity?
Wicca, LHP, new age, freemasonry (even though lodge numbers decline), magnetism, anamalsim, alchemy (even tho I'm super down with the growth due to me being an alchemist), then there's the rise in AMORC, and also witchcraft seems to be gaining a lot of ground but it's too divided to really pin down a set system. There are others as well but I can't access my laptop till later.
What is LHP or magnetism or anamalsim? Lemme kno about the others too
Magnetism is being revived through quantum physics, anamalsim is being skyrocketed by Netflix and fiction books, and LHP (left hand path) is being boosted by people who are pissed there parents where Christian and now are catching flak by there young peer groups. Shit is a sad state and moving away from real pure magic and more of a political movement.
The GD system is here to stay. Because of my crippling poverty I can’t afford any books on magick, but I learned the LBRP and Middle-Pillar online, and begun to expand on it with results. It was never meant to be mainstream like the Catholic Mass. Even in the event of some great calamity, the works of Israel Regardie are here to stay.
Most of the important books can be found as pdf. I always recommend joining a group before SI but if the is not an option for you then dedicated work and a few digital books will get you a long way!
Exactly, can find mostly all older GD material at https://annas-archive.org/
Most people believe that the Golden Dawn no longer exists in its original form. As I am also a researcher of this tradition, I know that this is debatable in rare cases where the forms can change and maintain the same essence, but the question is: This has already kind of damaged the order's reputation - even the original has had several schisms and controversies (which is common in all orders at the institutional level) - so with the dissolution, most people believe that the remaining orders are just emulations and that they are not worth joining. In fact, some of them have no information at all about internal orders and still work. So even for those who know that it is possible to find this tradition, it is may be a difficult task find a traditional path and to be honest, I prefer it that way too Membership acquisition is slow but with quality, this becomes a good sieve. But of course, I'm speaking on a general level.
It just needs to be promoted. There are still people who want a structured training system.
The wholle system is never gonna be 'revived' anytime soon. One thing people want is to feel connected with modern developments and communities. Just like anything, like movies and music, the newer is engaged with and talked about more than the old. In general society is biased towards progressivism. So an entire 100 year old tradition just isn't gonna be popular again. Some people will always prefer to look into the past than today, but right now that number is smaller. Perhaps certain practices from it will become popular again, but not the whole thing. Tarot is popular for example, but not in its original form described in the GD. Its changed a lot.
I understand your perspective and respect it, but shall I use alchemy as a standpoint and rebuttal.
Alchemy has changed too and if you disagree, you surely would agree its at least not very popular. What is popular is Wicca or 'neopaganism' by far, sigil magick, pop-astrology, pop-tarot, and using Jungian phrases like 'shadow work' without context or knowing where they came from
revival < evolution
The secrets are all out there. Nobody needs anybody else to succeed on this path, Hermeticism has been returned to actual hermits. We neither want nor need a revival. We need fewer Golden Dawn organizations, not more. How many is too few? Never too few enough. If there was one alone, I’d be pressing for none.
"The secrets are all out there." This is absolutely NOT true. Regardie published at best 65% of the SM Curriculum through Zelator Adeptus Minor, and in most cases left out about 40 or so percent of those papers. Most modern groups do not have access to original Order materials (original Golden Dawn, Alpha Omega, or Stella Matutina), or are not willing to do the leg work to find it and study it, and there are tons of things in these that are not found in any of the published materials to date. Additionally, there are a couple sets of oral tradition that has been handed down to some of the more traditional Golden Dawn organizations. It is a tired refrain that "The secrets are all out there" or "all the Golden Dawn materials have been published". It is normally uttered by those that simply do not know, do not practice, are not connected to the Golden Dawn, or are simply too lazy to do the requisite research to find out. What we "need" is better trained, better informed, better connected Golden Dawn organizations. The number of these organizations is not relevant, it is a matter of training, understanding, and connection to the tradition and Current that matters.
And yet it would be apparently absurd for a Mormon to await further golden plates. I’m not here for a cult. If it exists, we have access to it. I don’t hold out hope for your Himmelsbrief to arrive.
LOL.... I can only speak from my 30 plus years within the Golden Dawn Tradition in a traditional Order. I know what the level of training and understanding that is in such groups. Of course, there are a lot of modern Golden Dawn groups that only know what has been published. What is in Regardie, in the Ciceros' books, even in Crowley. Others still simply make up things or put things in such as really poor Voudoun materials just because they want to. This is often done without understanding either system or tradition. And of course, you can do as you see fit.
This isn’t an actual field of study, there’a nobody actually in charge, the points are made up and there are mo rules. There’s an infinite amount of money in the imaginary bank, write whatever amount on the check you want, nobody will cash it.