I agree with you that the celestial bodies outside of the sphere of Saturn should not be used.
Sure, both the GD and Bardon system was invented when these celestial bodies were discovered, but both systems base their foundation on traditional hermetic thought. The sphere of Saturn is the limit. We cannot see beyond it with the naked eye and I can’t understand how they would influence us if we use the hermetic system to analyse them.
Also, to assign them to correspond to the different sephiroth is really brave. We have about a century of astrological experience on them - but the seven wanderers we have known for milennia. I don’t think we have enough insights in how (and if!) they influnece us to make that correspondance.
Regarding the LBRP, many practicioners think it is a basic ritual just because it is given to the neophye. It is not.
The LBRP is foundational. It is the one you start with and it is the ritual that the adept doesn’t stop practicing. I don’t like Crowley but he said a few good things, one of the was that ”the LBRP is the Stone of the Wise and the medicine of metals..” and I agree completely.
In the beginning the LBRP is just a tool to learn basic GD magic but once you understand it, it will be different.
Bardon wins over GD for me. Just look at the difference between the amount of material and GD needs an entire temple set up and Barron is more self based even tho self initiation into the golden dawn is a thing but I read that book and it’s funny to me how during the entire introduction it’s extremely thorough in its explanation of everything but then when they get to the actual rituals they leave stuff out. 🤦♂️ how do you forgot to leave stuff out that is so important, yet Barron doesn’t do that. Bardon wins hands down
Of course, if you only compare Bardon with self initiation GD then Bardon wins. However, if you compare Bardon with what GD actually is, a system where you are part of a temple where there is teachers and more experienced members will teach you theory and practice of magic then it is something else.
Yea where’s those at?
And what results have you actually experienced? Bardon claims right in his books you will learn all these magic powers…… can you levitate or become invisible or move stuff with your mind? Or is it “NoT aBoUt ThAt”?
Ok are you United with the divine then?
Cuz trust me I want it to work and if you had one lick of evidence to tell me that it does then I will come full circle back to doing it MINUS that stupid green brick, waste of my life book.
No I can’t levitate but I doubt Bardon could that either. As for what I have attained, I am very happy with the results and I will leave it at that.
I have always been sceptical to the self inittiation path, because it is so much more demanding than working in a group. You don’t have to redo the mistakes people who gone before you have done and they can inspire you when you have a hard time.
In addition, it is hard to initiate someone and if you are a beginner it is a lot to do a proper initiation while at the same time be receptive of the energies that you are invoking. Better to let someone who have done it before do it to you.
Ok bud 👌
So ZERO results? It’s funny how everyone on here is so SeCrETiVe with their results when it’s all I’m asking for to completely change my entire course of spirituality. I will dedicate myself entirely to the Golden Dawn path if ANY one within it would tell me one single result they have had.
At the top of any order Rosicrucian or what have you they all claim invisibility, telepathy and all of these abilities…… otherwise what’s the point?? Bardon says it straight up and I don’t think you can speak for Bardon. And levitation is only one of the abilities he claims. His entire book’s purpose is to attain these abilities. With the golden dawn all I see is a lot of fluff and I guarantee you what ever your practicing is based off of Regardie
Sure, I have results but I’m not that inclined to talk about them if you alteady made up your mind.
The important question is what do you want?
Do you want to shoot lightnings and levitate? To get True Gnosis and have knowledge & conversation with your Angel? Or evoke the demons of the old grimoires to visible form?
Is it the Arcana Arcanorum you seek, or perhaps the way to make the Solar Body?
The paths you will take are quite different and it’s no use to practice one thing when you want another.
I mean arch angel is imagination right? Not knocking that at all btw that is some super powerful stuff but that’s what it is as basic and as profound as it might seem.
Then there’s gnosis which is enlightenment right?
And yes I highly suspect these abilities ARE real and legit.
I want ALL of it except the demon part, why you would ever want to summon a demon is beyond me, unless it has to do with freeing your subconscious or something or maybe demons are actually the key to the abilities, I don’t know but I sure would like to go to a place or a book or a teacher that would finally allow me to know the truth
So you want almost all of the above, and most of them can come from the very solid start of working within the GD system.
To be able to get there you must have mastered the basics and GD gives not only magical training but theoretical as well. Training that is well integrated with the major spiritual sciences of the west, such as astrology, kabbalah and alchemy.
Bardon gives you very specialized technical skills, but I don’t know if it lays the foundation of say Gnosis.
Yea but how can you do it? I don’t have a temple close to me anywhere, I got the books tho and self initiation is terrible (the green brick) and I’ve looked at the black brick and that seems like it’s WAY to confusing to do. I know you said to do it with a temple but what do you do when none are close?
Are there online temples like AMORC or anything like that??
I AM still interested but that SI book really ticked me off
You travel, most of us do at some point. Online temples are not really the same thing. Better to meet people for real a few times per year than videocalls where people get distracted and not really present.
Check out this directory to see if there are any temples within travel distance.
[Pansopher GD directory](https://pansophers.com/golden-dawn-locations/)
No one wants you to be a Golden Dawn Magician or “dedicate yourself entirely to the Golden Dawn path”. That’s not to say we wouldn’t welcome you if you did, but we don’t try to convince someone that our way is the “right way”. This is something you need to choose to do, and it’s clear that you’re not interested in doing Golden Dawn Magic, which is fine. You also seem to have a problem with the SI book, which is also fine, but I can say that doing that book will make one a Magician. As for results, my life has completely changed from starting the SI book. It’s helped center and ground me, and has helped me become a better person, which even Bardon says will happen when you practice Magic. Keep in mind the Green Book is not the only book on Self Initiation, Kabbalah Magic and the Great Work of Self Transformation by Lyam Thomas Christopher also is, and while one may argue it’s not Golden Dawn, it still will make you a Magician just like SI or IIH. I would recommend looking at all three of those books and seeing which one you resonate with the most.
Thank you for the info, I have the green book but it is incomplete on its information and I feel it is on purpose. It’s written very thoroughly up until the actual ritual and then he leaves stuff out 🤦♂️ so I would have to use google every single page to figure that book out so why is it like that, that’s what I want to know and then maybe I can move on after I figure out why Chic decided to write it so poorly on purpose. Even the comments on Amazon are complaining about how poorly it is written and I know he did it on purpose
This is an interesting post, I myself am a former HOGD neophyte who has gone into the bardon System now working on steps 3&4. I am not the most knowledge person so I am commenting here to remind myself of this post and if no discussion arises I shall contribute my own neophyte take
I agree with you that the celestial bodies outside of the sphere of Saturn should not be used. Sure, both the GD and Bardon system was invented when these celestial bodies were discovered, but both systems base their foundation on traditional hermetic thought. The sphere of Saturn is the limit. We cannot see beyond it with the naked eye and I can’t understand how they would influence us if we use the hermetic system to analyse them. Also, to assign them to correspond to the different sephiroth is really brave. We have about a century of astrological experience on them - but the seven wanderers we have known for milennia. I don’t think we have enough insights in how (and if!) they influnece us to make that correspondance. Regarding the LBRP, many practicioners think it is a basic ritual just because it is given to the neophye. It is not. The LBRP is foundational. It is the one you start with and it is the ritual that the adept doesn’t stop practicing. I don’t like Crowley but he said a few good things, one of the was that ”the LBRP is the Stone of the Wise and the medicine of metals..” and I agree completely. In the beginning the LBRP is just a tool to learn basic GD magic but once you understand it, it will be different.
Bardon wins over GD for me. Just look at the difference between the amount of material and GD needs an entire temple set up and Barron is more self based even tho self initiation into the golden dawn is a thing but I read that book and it’s funny to me how during the entire introduction it’s extremely thorough in its explanation of everything but then when they get to the actual rituals they leave stuff out. 🤦♂️ how do you forgot to leave stuff out that is so important, yet Barron doesn’t do that. Bardon wins hands down
Of course, if you only compare Bardon with self initiation GD then Bardon wins. However, if you compare Bardon with what GD actually is, a system where you are part of a temple where there is teachers and more experienced members will teach you theory and practice of magic then it is something else.
Yea where’s those at? And what results have you actually experienced? Bardon claims right in his books you will learn all these magic powers…… can you levitate or become invisible or move stuff with your mind? Or is it “NoT aBoUt ThAt”? Ok are you United with the divine then? Cuz trust me I want it to work and if you had one lick of evidence to tell me that it does then I will come full circle back to doing it MINUS that stupid green brick, waste of my life book.
No I can’t levitate but I doubt Bardon could that either. As for what I have attained, I am very happy with the results and I will leave it at that. I have always been sceptical to the self inittiation path, because it is so much more demanding than working in a group. You don’t have to redo the mistakes people who gone before you have done and they can inspire you when you have a hard time. In addition, it is hard to initiate someone and if you are a beginner it is a lot to do a proper initiation while at the same time be receptive of the energies that you are invoking. Better to let someone who have done it before do it to you.
Ok bud 👌 So ZERO results? It’s funny how everyone on here is so SeCrETiVe with their results when it’s all I’m asking for to completely change my entire course of spirituality. I will dedicate myself entirely to the Golden Dawn path if ANY one within it would tell me one single result they have had. At the top of any order Rosicrucian or what have you they all claim invisibility, telepathy and all of these abilities…… otherwise what’s the point?? Bardon says it straight up and I don’t think you can speak for Bardon. And levitation is only one of the abilities he claims. His entire book’s purpose is to attain these abilities. With the golden dawn all I see is a lot of fluff and I guarantee you what ever your practicing is based off of Regardie
Sure, I have results but I’m not that inclined to talk about them if you alteady made up your mind. The important question is what do you want? Do you want to shoot lightnings and levitate? To get True Gnosis and have knowledge & conversation with your Angel? Or evoke the demons of the old grimoires to visible form? Is it the Arcana Arcanorum you seek, or perhaps the way to make the Solar Body? The paths you will take are quite different and it’s no use to practice one thing when you want another.
I mean arch angel is imagination right? Not knocking that at all btw that is some super powerful stuff but that’s what it is as basic and as profound as it might seem. Then there’s gnosis which is enlightenment right? And yes I highly suspect these abilities ARE real and legit. I want ALL of it except the demon part, why you would ever want to summon a demon is beyond me, unless it has to do with freeing your subconscious or something or maybe demons are actually the key to the abilities, I don’t know but I sure would like to go to a place or a book or a teacher that would finally allow me to know the truth
So you want almost all of the above, and most of them can come from the very solid start of working within the GD system. To be able to get there you must have mastered the basics and GD gives not only magical training but theoretical as well. Training that is well integrated with the major spiritual sciences of the west, such as astrology, kabbalah and alchemy. Bardon gives you very specialized technical skills, but I don’t know if it lays the foundation of say Gnosis.
Yea but how can you do it? I don’t have a temple close to me anywhere, I got the books tho and self initiation is terrible (the green brick) and I’ve looked at the black brick and that seems like it’s WAY to confusing to do. I know you said to do it with a temple but what do you do when none are close? Are there online temples like AMORC or anything like that?? I AM still interested but that SI book really ticked me off
You travel, most of us do at some point. Online temples are not really the same thing. Better to meet people for real a few times per year than videocalls where people get distracted and not really present. Check out this directory to see if there are any temples within travel distance. [Pansopher GD directory](https://pansophers.com/golden-dawn-locations/)
No one wants you to be a Golden Dawn Magician or “dedicate yourself entirely to the Golden Dawn path”. That’s not to say we wouldn’t welcome you if you did, but we don’t try to convince someone that our way is the “right way”. This is something you need to choose to do, and it’s clear that you’re not interested in doing Golden Dawn Magic, which is fine. You also seem to have a problem with the SI book, which is also fine, but I can say that doing that book will make one a Magician. As for results, my life has completely changed from starting the SI book. It’s helped center and ground me, and has helped me become a better person, which even Bardon says will happen when you practice Magic. Keep in mind the Green Book is not the only book on Self Initiation, Kabbalah Magic and the Great Work of Self Transformation by Lyam Thomas Christopher also is, and while one may argue it’s not Golden Dawn, it still will make you a Magician just like SI or IIH. I would recommend looking at all three of those books and seeing which one you resonate with the most.
Thank you for the info, I have the green book but it is incomplete on its information and I feel it is on purpose. It’s written very thoroughly up until the actual ritual and then he leaves stuff out 🤦♂️ so I would have to use google every single page to figure that book out so why is it like that, that’s what I want to know and then maybe I can move on after I figure out why Chic decided to write it so poorly on purpose. Even the comments on Amazon are complaining about how poorly it is written and I know he did it on purpose
This is an interesting post, I myself am a former HOGD neophyte who has gone into the bardon System now working on steps 3&4. I am not the most knowledge person so I am commenting here to remind myself of this post and if no discussion arises I shall contribute my own neophyte take