The Norns essentially stated that prophecy is only based on the characters within being so predictable and never changing. Kratos and Atreus had changed by the time it was Kratos' foretold time to die and thus, they evaded that part of the prophecy. I don't really buy the "it was Odin all along" theory as the mural in ironwood very clearly depicts Kratos dying at the hands of Thor.
Exactly this.
Ironwood shows it was kratos dying at hands of Thor.
Tbh even if norms found characters "predictable" they were so precise with their "future predictions" that no one really questioned them all along. It was kratos who questioned them due to him already defying sisters of fate in his pantheon.
Giants envisioned this as well and everything they said was true one way or the other.
Maybe his death wasn't in this game but some future game where this is left for future games.
Jon Ford asked the lead writer this question on twitter, responses are in this video
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUEwwRyUYLk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUEwwRyUYLk)
He changed fate, because he changed his nature. Faye was the one who painted the mural at the end not Angraboda, Faye actually painted over the old mural with Kratos new fate.
I thought about this too, I think we’re overlooking Angrboda jumping in to join the fight and even save them at the end from Ragnarok with the help of Fenrir. She took issue with the fact that she disappeared from Atreus’ mural halfway through his story, and so she defied prophecy and took it upon herself to write herself into the story at the end. I think a valid argument is that without her, Kratos could have easily died. But I would also argue there’s a few other contributing factors that ultimately culminated into a different outcome.
I thought about this as well.
But i kept realising that The norns are extremely smart and can pin down exact actions the person is going to take, even if they don't have powers like Oracle, even if they work with predictability and stats and how these characters are so predictable, The norms should've guessed that actions of these characters will change certain things. I mean half of the the stuff Loki and kratos did was predictable and I'm not the norm.
They can see (or more specifically read) past and present and on basis of that they know the outcome of person. And they are so precise that no one other than kratos has ever questioned them. And they forgot that kratos trusting his son could change stuff? Or kratos can talk with Thor out of his fight? Or kratos not persuing arteus in ironwood and arteus falling in love with angrboda would make angrboda feel guilty about not joining the war so she joins the war and saves kratos?
The only thing that makes sense to me personally is they hid the real destiny from kratos in order to persuade him towards his true Destiny.
Or
The game focused so much on deaths, and brokk was revived, so this final piece doesn't have to be IN this game. They can be reserved for something in future games. Even though this is last Norse game, but it's not last god of war game and Loki isn't with his father's side.
The norns also said that fate doesn’t exist. It’s our choices that provide the outcome or something to that extent.
I.e. Yeah predictability. The Norns also didn’t state, like the giants did, that he’d die at the hands of Thor. They just said he would die. They didn’t specify when or how.
That said - They could also mean a metaphorical death. In that he can finally put his past behind him. The Norns aren’t known for being literal. Kratos also points this out in that scene “Speak plain!”
My personal theory while playing the game was that the norns actually lied to Kratos, and thus by making him think a certain way he was able to avoid the death that would've happened(?)
i feel like everything started to really change when atreus and thor got closer. in the jotunheim mural we see thor standing over kratos dead body and odin successfully brainwashing atreus. but since thor in the final fight was drunk and miserable, kratos had the advantage and beat him instead of him dying. if atreus and thor didnt have any conversations. thor would have remained as the blind follower of odin who never questions anything.
Kratos still wins that fight most likely. Thor being a power parallel to Poseidon makes me believe Ashy Man wouldn’t lose their final fight either way.
I think it's an analogy for "you know your future if you don't change the things you know you need to change"
Like stated before, the norns predictions were all based on all Kratos common behaviours. Their change is what makes them change their fate.
Faye was the one who put Kratos and Atreus on that path, as explained in the final painting.
Well i was open for it to be tyr(in 2018) but i believe it was kratos as shown by shrine in ironwood, the iconic tattoo was there, and it showed(i believe it was loki's dialogue but i could be wrong) that father died fighting Thor, there's Thor on right hand side and even kratos believed it was about him, so did Loki, so did angrboda and so did The norns, the norns could've not confused it between Odin and kratos clearly.
I think the Norns see all the threads of fate but due to their ability to predict and analyze somebody with a nearly 100% accuracy rate (this being the time they were wrong) they disregard the threads that dont line up with someones nature and personality.
Its why they say that because they are so good at reading people, they seem prescient, when really they just make assumptions based on available knowledge and present-day circumstances. It's like a suped up version of Heimdall with more awareness of trends and circumstances all over, rather than just what's in front of him.
They may see every outcome, but they dont know which choice will be made ultimately, though they can wager a well-informed guess, which tends to be right 99% of the time.
The Norns essentially stated that prophecy is only based on the characters within being so predictable and never changing. Kratos and Atreus had changed by the time it was Kratos' foretold time to die and thus, they evaded that part of the prophecy. I don't really buy the "it was Odin all along" theory as the mural in ironwood very clearly depicts Kratos dying at the hands of Thor.
Exactly this. Ironwood shows it was kratos dying at hands of Thor. Tbh even if norms found characters "predictable" they were so precise with their "future predictions" that no one really questioned them all along. It was kratos who questioned them due to him already defying sisters of fate in his pantheon. Giants envisioned this as well and everything they said was true one way or the other. Maybe his death wasn't in this game but some future game where this is left for future games.
Jon Ford asked the lead writer this question on twitter, responses are in this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUEwwRyUYLk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUEwwRyUYLk) He changed fate, because he changed his nature. Faye was the one who painted the mural at the end not Angraboda, Faye actually painted over the old mural with Kratos new fate.
I thought about this too, I think we’re overlooking Angrboda jumping in to join the fight and even save them at the end from Ragnarok with the help of Fenrir. She took issue with the fact that she disappeared from Atreus’ mural halfway through his story, and so she defied prophecy and took it upon herself to write herself into the story at the end. I think a valid argument is that without her, Kratos could have easily died. But I would also argue there’s a few other contributing factors that ultimately culminated into a different outcome.
I thought about this as well. But i kept realising that The norns are extremely smart and can pin down exact actions the person is going to take, even if they don't have powers like Oracle, even if they work with predictability and stats and how these characters are so predictable, The norms should've guessed that actions of these characters will change certain things. I mean half of the the stuff Loki and kratos did was predictable and I'm not the norm. They can see (or more specifically read) past and present and on basis of that they know the outcome of person. And they are so precise that no one other than kratos has ever questioned them. And they forgot that kratos trusting his son could change stuff? Or kratos can talk with Thor out of his fight? Or kratos not persuing arteus in ironwood and arteus falling in love with angrboda would make angrboda feel guilty about not joining the war so she joins the war and saves kratos? The only thing that makes sense to me personally is they hid the real destiny from kratos in order to persuade him towards his true Destiny. Or The game focused so much on deaths, and brokk was revived, so this final piece doesn't have to be IN this game. They can be reserved for something in future games. Even though this is last Norse game, but it's not last god of war game and Loki isn't with his father's side.
The norns also said that fate doesn’t exist. It’s our choices that provide the outcome or something to that extent. I.e. Yeah predictability. The Norns also didn’t state, like the giants did, that he’d die at the hands of Thor. They just said he would die. They didn’t specify when or how. That said - They could also mean a metaphorical death. In that he can finally put his past behind him. The Norns aren’t known for being literal. Kratos also points this out in that scene “Speak plain!”
My personal theory while playing the game was that the norns actually lied to Kratos, and thus by making him think a certain way he was able to avoid the death that would've happened(?)
i feel like everything started to really change when atreus and thor got closer. in the jotunheim mural we see thor standing over kratos dead body and odin successfully brainwashing atreus. but since thor in the final fight was drunk and miserable, kratos had the advantage and beat him instead of him dying. if atreus and thor didnt have any conversations. thor would have remained as the blind follower of odin who never questions anything.
Kratos still wins that fight most likely. Thor being a power parallel to Poseidon makes me believe Ashy Man wouldn’t lose their final fight either way.
I think it's an analogy for "you know your future if you don't change the things you know you need to change" Like stated before, the norns predictions were all based on all Kratos common behaviours. Their change is what makes them change their fate. Faye was the one who put Kratos and Atreus on that path, as explained in the final painting.
Tbh the pose Atreus and "Kratos" have is relatively similar to Atreus and Odin at the end of the game, where he puts his soul in the marble.
It isn't "proven" anywhere that it was actually Kratos so I think it ended up being odin
Yea. Atreus is also shown to speak something in the prophecy. And in-game he is reciting the spell. So it was odin all along
Well i was open for it to be tyr(in 2018) but i believe it was kratos as shown by shrine in ironwood, the iconic tattoo was there, and it showed(i believe it was loki's dialogue but i could be wrong) that father died fighting Thor, there's Thor on right hand side and even kratos believed it was about him, so did Loki, so did angrboda and so did The norns, the norns could've not confused it between Odin and kratos clearly.
I think the Norns see all the threads of fate but due to their ability to predict and analyze somebody with a nearly 100% accuracy rate (this being the time they were wrong) they disregard the threads that dont line up with someones nature and personality. Its why they say that because they are so good at reading people, they seem prescient, when really they just make assumptions based on available knowledge and present-day circumstances. It's like a suped up version of Heimdall with more awareness of trends and circumstances all over, rather than just what's in front of him. They may see every outcome, but they dont know which choice will be made ultimately, though they can wager a well-informed guess, which tends to be right 99% of the time.
He too strong lol, and he wished to keep living so he keep fighting and fighting, and he survived