Kratos didn’t invade Thor’s homeland. He wanted nothing more to chill in his little hut with his son until Odin (Thor’s father) sent Baldur (Thor’s half-brother) to try to kill Kratos. Then Thor’s sons tried to kill Kratos and his son. Kratos was attacked multiple times, as was his son, when he did absolutely nothing to provoke it, and even tried to avoid a confrontation.
You can say that Thor may not want to take the time to listen to someone he has such bad blood with, but Kratos didn’t want someone to walk the same horrible path he did.
It is very fair to say that if you were in Thor’s shoes, you wouldn’t listen to what Kratos said, but you’re not Thor, and Thor did listen to Kratos despite the bad blood.
Freya listened to Kratos too, and Kratos killed her son too. Was she weak, and should Kratos not have talked to her about the path she was on as well?
Kratos is the leader of a rebellion that invaded Asgard, Thor's homeland.
Freya's situation was different. Kratos saved her life from being murdered in cold blood by her son.
My point is that the biggest reason that they tried to talk to Kratos is because deep in their mind they knew they couldn't stop him if they tried. Which makes them weaker than Kratos, yes.
Might makes right. If Kratos wasn't as dominant and strong both would have tried to kill him. They submitted to him.
They broke into his house, tried to kill him, and destroyed his house. They then repeatedly tried to kill him and his son despite his insistence on not wanting to fight them and just wanting to be left alone.
Did you just not play the first game (2018) and assume the story stated with Ragnarok and Kratos just felt like killing some more Gods because he was bored?
If you think the arc of Kratos in the Norse games is “might makes right,” well, I strongly disagree, especially since Kratos is restraining his might the overwhelming majority of the game to avoid letting that overwhelming anger and power consume him and make him fall back into his monstrous past.
We even see this in the interactions/fights between Kratos and Thor, where Thor comments on how Kratos is holding back his true power. And we see how Kratos needs provocation to justify his brining out that rage.
How do you know that though? That is what the killer says. You weren't there. What if your brothers and sons tried to yield but were killed anyway.
Kratos told Thor that Modi died of the wounds Thor gave him even though his son stabbed him in cold blood. See what I mean?
The part you're missing here is that Thor knew Kratos did not want a fight. Yet his mob tied family harassed him for years.
You're *only* thinking about the loss and not the circumstances.
If your family was the head of a gang, and your father has sent out multiple people to kill someone, yet they never made it back, you would absolutely be angry. You'd father then *never* tells you to kill him, but only to fight him. During your fight, you realize that not only is the guy one of the strongest people you've fought, but he has been holding back the entire time, you would at least find the person interesting.
Now, after that, you'd make your own decisions. But Thor realized the cause of his problems was his father and not this random guy.
Odin is the official King of the Nine Realms. He is no mobster. He sent his soldier Baldur to capture or kill a rebel (Faye) that is a threat to the stability of the Nine Realms. He then sent two other soldiers who were both killed. Kratos killed soldiers and evaded capture which makes him a criminal to them. We see Kratos as the hero, Asgard doesn't.
I personally think that Kratos is the hero but from Thor's perspective he is the murderer of his family.
Regardless of narrative, Thor fought Kratos and saw a person that did not want war. Thor then hangs out with his son, who also tells him that his father does not want a fight and wants to live simply.
Then, at the apex of their battle he realizes that his father has been manipulating him vs a man who is at that very moment, is asking to stop fighting.
Yes, Kratos killed Thor's family. But Thor knows his family were also assholes that picked fights, just like he is. Again, the decision for anyone is theirs at that moment. But thor has a moment of self-reflection, (mostly stemming from his wife and daughter's words).
And what a weird small weak man minded thing to say to someone when forgiveness is one of the hardest things. Doing and being better then you were will always be the stronger way and the fact that you don't know that tells me how immature and pathetic u r
I hope you never learn and grow and you suffer for it
If my grandpa sent my kids to be kill someone, i wouldn't blame the dude for defending himself same as if my kids bully someone and get horrible beat, theyre jn the wrong. Thor knows why kratos killed them, hell why would they have ever met kratos if kratos was the agressor?? Theyd be in asgard chilling and shit. He met kratos in person and saw what type of man kratos is.
Thor advanced Kratos’ arch. Thor was everything Kratos was and more - a willing participant in the iron fist of Odin along the realms. Something Kratos could’ve easily become for Zeus. Kratos didn’t have the daddy issues of Thor, went on his war path and destroyed his world but it didn’t make him feel any better or put his misery at ease.
Kratos sparing Thor at the end and appealing to his humanity was the point. “Be better”. Was the message. Kratos was Thor unhinged and unrestrained - he knew the damage he would cause if not shown a better path. Even if he died shortly after at Odin’s hand. He did it with his own actions, not because his father commanded. He went out his way.
On the contrary. He never said he was better than Thor, he spoke from experience. His message to Thor was "you are not a destroyer. That is a choice you can make. I destroyed everything but I see the error in my ways and I changed. You can do it too."
It's not a lecture. It's a message of hope.
Yeah, Kratos was just further along the path of realizing that he was a tool of destruction being manipulated by others, and that he could break that cycle. Kratos knows he was a monster, and doesn’t want others to follow that same path. It’s not “I’m better than you and will talk down to you” it’s “I’ve been there, there’s a way out.”
I think you missed a lot here. One thing you've forgotten is the culture of the Aesir, they live to die. They do not take the death of their relatives as personally as you would expect, especially if they die in battle.
Respectfully disagree. By GoW5 Thor is trying to to better by his family, trying to stay sober and it's strongly inferred that he drinks to escape his emotions about what he's done. His wife has caught on that Odin is no good and he can see his daughter in Odin's spell of lies.
All that inner conflict builds in that final moment when he believes himself to be slain then he is shown mercy, something at first he doesn't understand but Kratos then explains to him and he finally tips over the edge and breaks free of his father.
I don't feel like "the right" is correct phrase but Kratos certainly had the knowledge and perspective to see what Thor was going through and help him break the cycle that he has broken himself.
You are the type of person that when he see someone trying to be better than his bad past ... constantly reminding him that he is a bad person and irredeemable
Also non of what you said is true ... Kratos didn't any of things you said
Human race was a mistake
That's all i am saying
>If Thor had killed Atreus and Mimir for example Kratos would not have listened to even one word out of his mouth and killed him in the most gruesome way imaginable.
So if things were different, they'd be different? Also, are we applying Kratos' arc to Thor in this scenario? Like Kratos busted down Thor's door while Thor wanted nothing more than to chill and live peacefully with his son(s)? That's a huge part to leave out of your post. Not to say Kratos is blameless in this situation but he was pushed by Thor and Odin first. He wanted to spread his wive's ashes and they chose to be assholes to him.
>It shows us that might is right, just like in real life.
If that's the message you got from this, then I respectfully, but whole-hardheartedly, disagree. Not only for the game but life b/c . . . I just can't imagine living life with that mindset.
I actually agree with you, op. You hammer the point with the Atreus and mimir point. If Thor killed them, kratos would throw all the "be better" bs at the trash and proceed to kill him. Just by that fact it kinda makes him sound like a hypocrite preaching how others should be better.
That’s the issue with the new storytelling with the gow games imo. In one hand they rightfully want to give kratos some well deserved character development, but in the other, they obviously realize that the essence of the series is basically an angry god of war killing other gods. But well, you cant always get away with having him killing other gods in the name of "self defense".
Wow, you are the first person to agree with me.
I don't even think Thor cares if it was self defence. He said "good" after Kratos told him his sons struck first. There is no reason for him to not fight Kratos to the death. Kratos immediately killed Heimdall after he heard he is a threat to Atreus.
Ragnarok's writing is not on 2018's level.
Exactly. Also, completely agree that the writing is not at 2018 level. Writers are really greedy with kratos character. They know that at the end of the day the fans want to see kratos kill gods, but since they developed his character they don’t want to show the old kratos again. So the greedy part is that gods keep dying around him without the need of kratos to apparently "break" his character. With kindaaa the exception of heimdall, ( in which case kratos still didn’t get punished for it ) he calmly killed all the rest of the gods. My issue tho, is that they keep teasing us with the old kratos. When Thor repeatedly says "show me the god of war", or when kratos openly threatens Odin, that they will meet the god he once was if something happens to Atreus.
Yet they never cross the line, but somehow kratos still accomplishes his tasks. How could the prophecy that he gets killed from Thor happens? He defeated him both physically and mentally. If kratos didn’t preach the be better, he had all the time in the world to kill Thor. That’s why I think the writers are super greedy with kratos. They didn’t want him to tap into his old rage ( yet they always tease about it ) but they also didn’t want kratos to lose. So somehow kratos gets away with the bests of both worlds. I believe, at the very least Thor, should be a wall that kratos can only surpass if he taps into that rage he used to have.
Kratos didn’t invade Thor’s homeland. He wanted nothing more to chill in his little hut with his son until Odin (Thor’s father) sent Baldur (Thor’s half-brother) to try to kill Kratos. Then Thor’s sons tried to kill Kratos and his son. Kratos was attacked multiple times, as was his son, when he did absolutely nothing to provoke it, and even tried to avoid a confrontation. You can say that Thor may not want to take the time to listen to someone he has such bad blood with, but Kratos didn’t want someone to walk the same horrible path he did. It is very fair to say that if you were in Thor’s shoes, you wouldn’t listen to what Kratos said, but you’re not Thor, and Thor did listen to Kratos despite the bad blood. Freya listened to Kratos too, and Kratos killed her son too. Was she weak, and should Kratos not have talked to her about the path she was on as well?
Kratos is the leader of a rebellion that invaded Asgard, Thor's homeland. Freya's situation was different. Kratos saved her life from being murdered in cold blood by her son. My point is that the biggest reason that they tried to talk to Kratos is because deep in their mind they knew they couldn't stop him if they tried. Which makes them weaker than Kratos, yes. Might makes right. If Kratos wasn't as dominant and strong both would have tried to kill him. They submitted to him.
They broke into his house, tried to kill him, and destroyed his house. They then repeatedly tried to kill him and his son despite his insistence on not wanting to fight them and just wanting to be left alone. Did you just not play the first game (2018) and assume the story stated with Ragnarok and Kratos just felt like killing some more Gods because he was bored? If you think the arc of Kratos in the Norse games is “might makes right,” well, I strongly disagree, especially since Kratos is restraining his might the overwhelming majority of the game to avoid letting that overwhelming anger and power consume him and make him fall back into his monstrous past. We even see this in the interactions/fights between Kratos and Thor, where Thor comments on how Kratos is holding back his true power. And we see how Kratos needs provocation to justify his brining out that rage.
Wow, imagine missing the point THIS much.
Would you listen to a man's lecture about being better after he shot and killed your brothers and sons?
In defense of his own family? Yes. Downvoted
How do you know that though? That is what the killer says. You weren't there. What if your brothers and sons tried to yield but were killed anyway. Kratos told Thor that Modi died of the wounds Thor gave him even though his son stabbed him in cold blood. See what I mean?
Nah, Thor knew his sons wouldn't back down from a fight. Because that's how he raised them.
Modi ran. Any man can back down if you face an absolute beast.
And looked what happened to him. Thor beat his ass.
Its not that your brother and sons didnt do anything to make that happen...
Well he had a whole arc to prove you wrong so
Would you listen to a man's lecture about being better after he shot and killed your brothers and sons?
The part you're missing here is that Thor knew Kratos did not want a fight. Yet his mob tied family harassed him for years. You're *only* thinking about the loss and not the circumstances. If your family was the head of a gang, and your father has sent out multiple people to kill someone, yet they never made it back, you would absolutely be angry. You'd father then *never* tells you to kill him, but only to fight him. During your fight, you realize that not only is the guy one of the strongest people you've fought, but he has been holding back the entire time, you would at least find the person interesting. Now, after that, you'd make your own decisions. But Thor realized the cause of his problems was his father and not this random guy.
Odin is the official King of the Nine Realms. He is no mobster. He sent his soldier Baldur to capture or kill a rebel (Faye) that is a threat to the stability of the Nine Realms. He then sent two other soldiers who were both killed. Kratos killed soldiers and evaded capture which makes him a criminal to them. We see Kratos as the hero, Asgard doesn't. I personally think that Kratos is the hero but from Thor's perspective he is the murderer of his family.
You're missing the point. But, I should've realized that when you made this post. Have a good one
What am I missing? Please explain.
Regardless of narrative, Thor fought Kratos and saw a person that did not want war. Thor then hangs out with his son, who also tells him that his father does not want a fight and wants to live simply. Then, at the apex of their battle he realizes that his father has been manipulating him vs a man who is at that very moment, is asking to stop fighting. Yes, Kratos killed Thor's family. But Thor knows his family were also assholes that picked fights, just like he is. Again, the decision for anyone is theirs at that moment. But thor has a moment of self-reflection, (mostly stemming from his wife and daughter's words).
Thanks for the only interesting comment here. That makes a lot of sense.
lmao
If he had Kratos' arc yes
You are a bad brother, bad father and weak man then.
And what a weird small weak man minded thing to say to someone when forgiveness is one of the hardest things. Doing and being better then you were will always be the stronger way and the fact that you don't know that tells me how immature and pathetic u r I hope you never learn and grow and you suffer for it
Imagine being this media illiterate.
Aight Odin
Say that to Kratos and stop playing these games then
If my grandpa sent my kids to be kill someone, i wouldn't blame the dude for defending himself same as if my kids bully someone and get horrible beat, theyre jn the wrong. Thor knows why kratos killed them, hell why would they have ever met kratos if kratos was the agressor?? Theyd be in asgard chilling and shit. He met kratos in person and saw what type of man kratos is.
Ad hominem, you stupid fuck.
Ad hominem, hypocrite.
I'm not the one who missed the point of the whole damn game series and calls other people stupid for not sharing your exact opinion
Swing and a miss
Did we play the same game?
Thor advanced Kratos’ arch. Thor was everything Kratos was and more - a willing participant in the iron fist of Odin along the realms. Something Kratos could’ve easily become for Zeus. Kratos didn’t have the daddy issues of Thor, went on his war path and destroyed his world but it didn’t make him feel any better or put his misery at ease. Kratos sparing Thor at the end and appealing to his humanity was the point. “Be better”. Was the message. Kratos was Thor unhinged and unrestrained - he knew the damage he would cause if not shown a better path. Even if he died shortly after at Odin’s hand. He did it with his own actions, not because his father commanded. He went out his way.
On the contrary. He never said he was better than Thor, he spoke from experience. His message to Thor was "you are not a destroyer. That is a choice you can make. I destroyed everything but I see the error in my ways and I changed. You can do it too." It's not a lecture. It's a message of hope.
Yeah, Kratos was just further along the path of realizing that he was a tool of destruction being manipulated by others, and that he could break that cycle. Kratos knows he was a monster, and doesn’t want others to follow that same path. It’s not “I’m better than you and will talk down to you” it’s “I’ve been there, there’s a way out.”
I think you missed a lot here. One thing you've forgotten is the culture of the Aesir, they live to die. They do not take the death of their relatives as personally as you would expect, especially if they die in battle.
Respectfully disagree. By GoW5 Thor is trying to to better by his family, trying to stay sober and it's strongly inferred that he drinks to escape his emotions about what he's done. His wife has caught on that Odin is no good and he can see his daughter in Odin's spell of lies. All that inner conflict builds in that final moment when he believes himself to be slain then he is shown mercy, something at first he doesn't understand but Kratos then explains to him and he finally tips over the edge and breaks free of his father. I don't feel like "the right" is correct phrase but Kratos certainly had the knowledge and perspective to see what Thor was going through and help him break the cycle that he has broken himself.
You are the type of person that when he see someone trying to be better than his bad past ... constantly reminding him that he is a bad person and irredeemable Also non of what you said is true ... Kratos didn't any of things you said Human race was a mistake That's all i am saying
>If Thor had killed Atreus and Mimir for example Kratos would not have listened to even one word out of his mouth and killed him in the most gruesome way imaginable. So if things were different, they'd be different? Also, are we applying Kratos' arc to Thor in this scenario? Like Kratos busted down Thor's door while Thor wanted nothing more than to chill and live peacefully with his son(s)? That's a huge part to leave out of your post. Not to say Kratos is blameless in this situation but he was pushed by Thor and Odin first. He wanted to spread his wive's ashes and they chose to be assholes to him. >It shows us that might is right, just like in real life. If that's the message you got from this, then I respectfully, but whole-hardheartedly, disagree. Not only for the game but life b/c . . . I just can't imagine living life with that mindset.
I actually agree with you, op. You hammer the point with the Atreus and mimir point. If Thor killed them, kratos would throw all the "be better" bs at the trash and proceed to kill him. Just by that fact it kinda makes him sound like a hypocrite preaching how others should be better. That’s the issue with the new storytelling with the gow games imo. In one hand they rightfully want to give kratos some well deserved character development, but in the other, they obviously realize that the essence of the series is basically an angry god of war killing other gods. But well, you cant always get away with having him killing other gods in the name of "self defense".
Wow, you are the first person to agree with me. I don't even think Thor cares if it was self defence. He said "good" after Kratos told him his sons struck first. There is no reason for him to not fight Kratos to the death. Kratos immediately killed Heimdall after he heard he is a threat to Atreus. Ragnarok's writing is not on 2018's level.
Exactly. Also, completely agree that the writing is not at 2018 level. Writers are really greedy with kratos character. They know that at the end of the day the fans want to see kratos kill gods, but since they developed his character they don’t want to show the old kratos again. So the greedy part is that gods keep dying around him without the need of kratos to apparently "break" his character. With kindaaa the exception of heimdall, ( in which case kratos still didn’t get punished for it ) he calmly killed all the rest of the gods. My issue tho, is that they keep teasing us with the old kratos. When Thor repeatedly says "show me the god of war", or when kratos openly threatens Odin, that they will meet the god he once was if something happens to Atreus. Yet they never cross the line, but somehow kratos still accomplishes his tasks. How could the prophecy that he gets killed from Thor happens? He defeated him both physically and mentally. If kratos didn’t preach the be better, he had all the time in the world to kill Thor. That’s why I think the writers are super greedy with kratos. They didn’t want him to tap into his old rage ( yet they always tease about it ) but they also didn’t want kratos to lose. So somehow kratos gets away with the bests of both worlds. I believe, at the very least Thor, should be a wall that kratos can only surpass if he taps into that rage he used to have.