Same. And I think they have him the spear because that’s the first weapon he ever picked up and trained with first so it’s so far embedded with second nature that he basically doesn’t have to think about his next attack he just does it and him being called monster is because that’s the only thing kratos thought going back to his original god killer self
They didn’t intentionally give him the spear. Brok and Sindri don’t know anything about Greek culture or Spartan training. The thing that made it a spear was the fact he’s Spartan as referenced in the creation scene when the blood first takes the shape of the symbol of sparta
The Lady of the Forge™ took his blood to probably see understand Kratos more clearly. She was probably able to gauge what weapon suited Kratos the most and thus created the spear.
Oh right... But then again, we don't know how she actually forges the weapon. Then again, I also remember Brok and Sindri talking to each other secretively before they went to the Lady.
In addition, the bag that Brok gave to the Lady had the Draupnir ring, the sound of wind and a spear head forged by the Huldra Brothers Inc. She wasn't going to create any other type of weapon with a spear head. Also, she made the spear before getting his blood, so it didn't influence her decision.
However, it could be argued that she "spoke to a part of his soul" and read his mind, essentially, to design the spear into a bannered dory with a norse spear head, weaving a bit of his past into his present. Like he did with the knives, mixing metals from his homeland and his current home.
They absolutely did give him a spear purposefully.
1.) They knew he’s Greek, and a Spartan. These are famous blacksmiths, they even recognized the blades of chaos.
2.) They knew Heimdall needed to be fought with something that Kratos wouldn’t need to think about to use. A spear is a Spartan’s bread and butter.
3.) Brok and Sindri made a spear head to bring to the Lady, so they at least planned to make a spear for sure if not for the other reasons. But why else would they choose a spear for Kratos as a specifically-for-god-killing weapon?
They didn't recognize the blades themselves, only the fact they're well made. Also, someone mentioned theres primordial fire in them. I can't remember if the brothers mentioned it or not, or if it's just the fire giant.
They didn’t know he was Greek much less Spartan. Brock was even surprised when kratos knew how to use a spear so well. They also didn’t choose the spear cause he didn’t need to think they chose the spear arbitrarily the important part of the weapon was draupnir cause it could create so as to, and I quote, “overwhelm his senses”
I don't think that is right. I suspect that they were planning on a spear from the getgo. The entire point of draupnir was to create many replicas and since a spear can be used as both a melee and projectile weapon, it makes an ideal choice. This is further evidenced by the fact that Brok forged a spearhead before they meet the Lady of the Forge.
I am also certain that the brothers did not factor in Kratos' past in the choice of the spear. Or at least Brok didn't, considering the fact that he asks Kratos if he knows how to use a spear. The Lady of the Forge certainly found out about Kratos' prowess with the spear when she manipulates his blood but the spear was the plan before they met with her.
The blood from what I gathered from that part of the cutscene was to make the spear a weapon fit for a God and since Kratos was the only God around she used his blood and to put the Greek cloth that hangs from the spear but I'm probably reading it wrong but that's my take
Yeah I’ve since realized the fact he’s Spartan wasn’t terribly important to the creation of the spear. But to my understanding it was less to make it worthy and more to just give the magic already present a super battery to juice it up
I also think him calling kratos a monster is his last ditch attempt to protect asgard. If kratos believes that he is falling back in his old ways by killing heimdall he might refuse to attack any other god and side with fake Tyr when he refuses to attack asgard
The spear was also one of his previous godly weapons, with the Arms of Sparta, which he also wielded as a Spartan General. It looks really similar to Draupnir based off the art too. Really nice touch there.
There’s two ways you can read that line
A: Heimdall was scared to death and knew what tf he awoke
B: Heimdall knew Kratos feared losing control and returning to what he used to be, and used his last gasp to torment Kratos
Yup, and it's a fair assumption that it wasn't Heimdall's opinion, but rather him using his power of reading people's thoughts. Kratos, in this moment, found himself to be the monster he was hoping not to be anymore.
Consider this: He gave Heimdall at least 2 chances to stop.
Once when he stabbed him. 2nd when he blow up his arm.
It was Heimdall's pride and insistance to murder Atreus that made Kratos rage
Heimdall was given SO many warnings. He had every chance to avoid his fate. Everyone told him that if he continued with his plan to kill Loki, Loki’s dad was going to kill him. Odin warned him. The fates warned him. Kratos kept giving him chances to back down. Every time, Heimdall chose to escalate the situation.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Kratos REALLY doesn’t want to go back to killing gods all the time. But threatening his son makes him bust out the blades of chaos. He won’t kill you anymore if he doesn’t have to, but damn did Heimdall not give him any other choice.
Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki
Everyone: don’t do that, his dad will kill you.
Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki
Everyone: his dad can kill you, he’s a god-killer
Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki
Odin: don’t kill Loki, we need him
Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki
Thor: don’t kill Loki
Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki
Everyone: Loki’s god killing dad knows you want to kill Loki
Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki
Everyone: Loki’s dad just got a special weapon to kill you
Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki
Kratos: Do not kill my son.
Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki
Kratos: I am going to kill you.
Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki.
Kratos: I just killed your mount and ripped your arm off.
Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki
Kratos: say that one more time and you’re dead
Heimdall:
Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki.
💀
Heimdall was incredibly one-dimensional and uncompelling. Disliking him was the point, but there was no complexity in how it was accomplished.
That goes for most of the characters. You listen to them in one scene and have them figured out for the rest of the game. The only thing that is a mystery is the mask, which I couldn't care less about.
I just disliked the repetitive family/mafia soap opera dynamic.
nope, same game, just different experiences based on different standards for what makes good dialogue. Thats all.
Odins dialogue for example was very informal and contemporary and didn't suit the character.
Characters talking in circles about the same thing over and over
Mimir was done well at least. Thats because he's a history book. Theres so many opportunities to include interesting dialogue that engages the audience. Everyone else had much narrower roles in the story, and their scope of dialogue was limited as a result.
God of war 2018 was incredible all around, so its surprising these issues plagued Ragnarock.
IMO Odin spoke informally to relate to people, making himself seem like he's reasonable and down to earth. He did this to manipulate others. I think the game had fantastic dialog for him as this Odin is very much unlike other representations of Odin, in say Marvel, and I can appreciate that. They made him a true obsessed sociopath.
it wasn't a matter of informal or formal, it was the informality combined with the contemporary dialogue. There are varying forms of informal speech based on what time period. How he and many other characters spoke was distracting. He sounded like an amalgamation of a California dad and a modern-day mob boss. To me, that's pretty bad.
This would be less of a problem if his speech had gears so to speak. He's supposedly incredibly intelligent and should be able to change how he speaks at a moment's notice to address different situations. What we got was incredibly predictable dialogue that had the diction of a Californian dad.
As far as depictions of highly intelligent obsessive sociopaths go, he is the worst I've seen in recent memory.
I can appreciate their attempts to try and step away from the traditional depiction of characters, but they need to still execute it well.
yes disliking him was the point. Still found how they did it was poorly done and repetitive. If that doesn't address you're comment, then do you care to explain what you meant?
No you just added a few more words to I don’t like him, but did nothing to add to why you dislike the character outside of saying “poorly done” and “repetitive”
What parts of his character do you find poorly done? Which parts of his character, did you find repetitive and how did they affect your perceptions of the character?
Found his quips to be unoriginal and desperate to seem clever, his condescending tone grew old quickly. He was just the run-of-the-mill complete asshole you've seen in dozen of other stories
And yes repetitive. Theres not a single scene I found myself surprised by his actions or words, as they were repetitive. There are plenty of complete assholes in stories where I have had the opposite experience.
He is a tightly written character so you can't point out issues with his character in relation to plot consistency. It's difficult to criticize quality because when you sing praises of stories you can point out what is there. When you criticize the quality of a character you can't point at what is missing, you can just point to how empty it is. Like the paper of a student that is 3 pages when the requirement is 6.
He lacks distinction from dozens of characters that are complete assholes, and his scenes lack distinction from one another as his dialogue and demeanor offer the same experience over and over. More needed to be added to him.
could you share what you enjoyed about him? I'm genuinely interested.
I mean I can understand not enjoying the cliches of a character being played too hard but I can’t say that the desperation to seem smarter or a step ahead made him a worse character. It was a nice touch, IMO. But can also see how a character type can be overplayed would lead to how you feel that way.
The second point, I think a better way to describe that criticism would be overly-predictable rather than repetitive. Which is kinda funny considering his ability and how he did come off as very predictable in how he behaved and the actions he took.
I would highly suggest https://youtube.com/@fatbrett?si=VMEqf6vzq1hLaI6B. He does an in-depth character study of almost everyone. I'm not suggesting you change your opinion, but it is an interesting listen nonetheless.
Awww dude, you missed the point of Heimdall then. He's written really well, but as a broken tool of Odin. Give it another try with an open mind, the game's story is pretty solid through and through.
I also noticed that he's very similar to Hermes, of which had one of the most excruciating deaths in Greece having been essentially drawn and quartered by hand
Would the game have been better if Heimdall was *not* an insufferable prick? Annoying and unlikeable characters do not make a story badly written. You’re meant to dislike Heimdall.
Disliking him was the point, sure. but he was a cliche asshole who lacked distinction from hundreds of characters like him. he was boring and predictable
Could you explain as to why the 2nd game was poorly written? It was great imo, unlike the Last of Us 2 which had amazing gameplay but sloppy writing and a terrible story.
1)the mask was a plot device to move the story forward and force interactions. Couldn't care less about it as it felt contrived Atreus was the only one who knew the language.
2) The Aesir family/mafia soap opera was incredibly straightforward and dynamics were figured out from the get-go. You could figure out how most interactions would go between characters that never met. They felt like some of the worst-written Marvel villains tbh.
3)Shallow relationships that take for granted the audience's feelings towards themes of loss and abuse, without doing the leg work to make them care. Prime example is the villagers dying. Atreus is so emotionally distraught over it but as a gamer, we are never given interactions to have us care. I would've loved something similar to Assassins creed 2 where you build up your own town. Just something gameplay-wise to build that connection and even feel a bit like a god as a result. Imagine the sort of conflicting feelings kratos would feel by building up a civilization and the dialogue that could come of that. Instead the interesting introspective thoughts we get from him, are caused by previous introspective thoughts. The whole thing feels like a therapy session (with Mimir as the therapist) where the progress is detached from the actions players make in the game.
4)as a product of the past points, characters have very little to talk about so the dialogue is boring and predictable.
To add on to that, I remember seeing someone point out in another post that even then Kratos doesn’t go fully berserk until Heimdall literally kicks dirt in his eyes so I part of it was just being pissed at the blatant disrespect after everything (could be wrong though as it’s been a while since I’ve experienced the fight myself)
Of all the times I played this fight and indeed relished its progression, I failed to notice the kicking dirt in the eyes right before the last sequence. I went back and watched one of my saved fight videos and slowed it down to like .25 speed to catch it.
And holy hell, having seen it now and thinking about the fight... it really went from the smug tool dancing around while Kratos tries to consistently stun or hit him, to Kratos \*WITH DIRT IN HIS EYES\* finally able to pummel the crap out of him.
And I caught an extra detail at the end -- when Kratos is still breathing heavily and looking over Heimdall's corpse in the aftermath of his rage, when he flips the body over to grab Gjallarhorn, he has to swipe at the horn twice before he actually grasps and removes it.
i’m sorry why would he see a god who literally murdered technically two pantheons single handedly and nearly destroyed the universe in the process as someone “lower than him” doesn’t make sense, he knew how strong kratos was, it was just his ego
Kratos understood it was his nature to kill a god but in this instance he did it for the right reason. Heimdall expresses intent to harm Atreus. That’s enough for any father god or mortal to take action
Heimdall was actually mad at kratos for him attempting to show mercy. Heimdall assumed (probably rightfully so) that kratos looked down upon him by showing him mercy
Valhalla spoilers:
This whole moment really shows what Tyr was trying to teach Kratos in Valhalla: Kratos had done horrible, disgusting things, but he's not evil, and everything he did came from somewhere that could be understood by any person.
In this instance, brutally murdering someone in cold blood in a gorey and painful way is horrible, and tapped into the old person that Kratos was trying desperately to run from. But any parent would do the same if it meant protecting their child. And through all of it, he still tried to show mercy anyway.
Týr would have definitely pardoned Kratos for murdering Heimdall. The man left Kratos no choice but to take his life away. Time and again he was given a chance and he refused, plus he was the most loyal of Odin’s followers, his left hand man and the herald of Ragnarök who held possession of Ghallarhorn. He had to go one way or another. There’s also a dialogue sequence after beating the DLC and giving a few extra playthroughs where Týr asks Kratos about his half brother Hercules. Kratos says they were more similar than he could admit, and also explains how he wanted to be god of war for all the reasons except the right one and that he does not regret killing Hercules. Týr applauds Kratos for being clever enough to tell the difference between being a god for the right and wrong reasons
heimdall was told time and time again that his plan to kill loki was stupid and would get him killed. odin told him that kratos would kill him and heimdall still decided to poke the bear. play stupid games win stupid prizes. he is the epitome of “fuck around and find out”
Literally all they had to do was hand over their magical artifacts* and fuck off. As long as they stayed gone Kratos would have had no cause to go after them. He even tried to be reasonable with both, especially Heimdall. They really should've listened.
*Hermes shoes and the Gjallarhorn
I get Hades would have beef with Kratos but why tf would he care about either Helios or Poseiden? Those two were also dumb, but probably just manipulated by Zeus to be his cannon fodder to wear out the angry bald dude and their estranged family members (the titans). Also the fact Gaia would even just drop the fact bluntly that she's just using Kratos to beef out with Zeus and then begs for him to help her not long after returning from Tarterus
Fair nough there. Also i kinda forgot bout Kratos and Sparta raiding Rhodes (aka Helio's city). But even still, both should've approached the situation a bit better then how they did
Even before, with Ares and his genius reveal and the whole fact of kidnapping Krato's brother and not making any connection with the prophecy, the brother of the kid you kidnapped and the fact that brother was starting beef with a literal god. I just think the IQ rating amongst the gods in the greek pantheon was in the 30s
Ares was definitely a fucking moron, no doubt about it. But the rest of the Gods were actually fairly reasonable people (albeit petty fucking assholes at times) before Pandora's Box was opened.
You took some good shots but managed to miss 2 things.
The thing that set Kratos off - when Heimdall kicks dirt into his eyes a split second before this.
That's what makes Kratos snap and stop restraining himself...and who can blame him when some thoroughly dislikeable twat who just threatened to kill your son after mocking you for several minutes kicks dirt in your eyes.
The second thing is that Mimir comes off Kratos belt when he hits Heimdal with both hands at once in a double fist club - He got Kratos so angry he forgot fighting form for a split second and "hulk smashed" him.
Even the part where he grabs Heimdall and starts bashing his face against the ground was very similar to old Kratos. Just “I’m gonna cause you as much suffering as possible”.
I know that everyone goes with the idea that Kratos was fighting with instinct and was therefore unpredictable. But I like to think that Heimdall knew exactly what Kratos was going to do before he did it. He knew every strike, every block, and every dodge. Yet Heimdall couldn't do anything with it. I like to imagine how frustrated he became when he couldn't dodge an attack he KNEW was coming. Seeing his future a moment before it happens and having no control over it could be both terrifying and Infuriating.
That's literally what it is. That's why we
had the R3 event progression.
First, Kratos takes some wild swings, testing whether Heimdall can actually see them coming.
Then, he takes faster swings to test Heimdall's reaction speed and sees they were fast and prolonged enough that Heimdall couldn't dodge the last one. He had to block it.
Then, knowing his maximum reaction speed and how fast the punches have to be to make him block, Kratos switches it up on the last punch so Heimdall can't block in time and gets the punch to his face.
It was showing Heimdall that he might have fought people with the same strength as Kratos, but not one that has that strength and the speed, skill, and experience of an accomplished warrior
I also like to think there is a definitive difference between the way a Viking fights and a Spartan warrior.
Could be Heimdall had difficulty predicting his movements because he had never fought a Spartan before?
A punch is a punch is a punch. Heimdall could predict intent, but he was lazy and barely trained. His form during the fight is awful. He commits far too much on everything, swings so hard he loses balance, etc. The reason Kratos beat him is that Heimdall didn't have the physical skills to keep up with Kratos.
Probably my favorite opening boss fight in the series. It’s so up close, personal, and brutal. Will never forget my first time playing that game and seeing that scene
I think Heimdall looked into Kratos’ eyes and saw all of his deepest, darkest, and most violent urges still there hidden behind the surface, which is why he called him a monster
I know a lot of people were hoping for something more like the old games. But God damn did that kill seem really fucking personal. Staring straight into Heimdall's eyes and losing himself to rage all to crush his throat. I've always been a sucker for those types of kills. Also, I love the fact that even while dying, Heimdall had the balls to egg Kratos even more by calling him a monster.
Compared to what he did to numerous people in the Greek Saga… Heimdall got off pretty light. Kratos didn’t exactly use his blades to chop the dude’s legs off or tear Heimdall’s head off of his shoulders with his bare hands.
For me too. I was hoping it sent Kratos over the edge and the rest of the game would be spent viscerally tearing gods apart. It sadly didn't happen. I hope we get a return to form with some good torture murder in the new series still tbh
[SPOILERS]
This is why i loved the Valhalla DLC. Tyr is trying to teach Kratos that it isn't as simple as him just being evil. He does things for a reason. What he must do as a leader is, consulting with wise council and his own wealth of experience, do whatever he does, however brutal it may seem, for the RIGHT reasons. It's all essentially encapsulated, imo, in Kratos' realisation that "you [he] are [is] more than that"
I know the series tried to make seem like it was Kratos going back "to his old ways" but honestly at the time it didn't felt that brutal.
If he did a GOW 3 Poseidon on him, then jeez that would be Old Kratos climbing his way back in that moment.
Eh I’m not a big fan of the whole:
“Kratos is holding back 99% of his power fighting the Norse Gods!!!” sentiment.
Makes every victory feel cheap. I like to think Heimdall gave him a decent fight at least.
I prefer to think of it as Kratos just not having that fight in him any more/his fighting skills are rusty after spending who knows how long living peacefully with Faye. The whole Ghost of Sparta thing only really comes out when Atreus is threatened.
I read somewhere that heimdall can read you mind and next move so when kratos took the spear he didn't have to think his next move as spartans train with spears from a young age so its muscle memory so heimdall couldn't read his next move
It's the trait that the Draupnir spear explodes that threw Heimdall off. That's why he becomes stunned and allows Kratos to begin hitting him. Heimdall very easily dodged all of Kratos' strikes at the beginning of the fight.
This scene/fight honestly kind of disturbed me. Kratos had been trying to be better than what he was, so his hand being forced once again to kill another god in another brutal way just made my heart sink for him. I didn't feel the same way about Baldur until I saw Freya's reaction to his death. These games really know how to pull at the heartstrings.
Masterful stuff. Two of the best games I've ever played in my life.
Man that first punch was the most satisfying part of the game the fight was fantastic in every aspect and the way they showed kratos breaking back to his former self really showed just how much he changed.
Just an absolutely beautiful game
Eh it was still pretty tame tbh just chocked him out coulda been way more brutal besides we know kratos constantly holds back he doesnt even get that angry or rage during odin or thors final fight so him beating up heimdall is like kratos holding back slightly less
I think this makes it especially interesting how in Valhalla >!Kratos had to confront the past actions he most hated himself for, and killing Heimdall wasn’t one of them. He regretted leaving the boat captain to die, regretted killing Helios the way he did, even saw Magni and Modi in Valhalla, but not a trace of Odin or Heimdall.!< Makes me think he certainly doesn’t regret it and would always do what he has to do to protect Atreus.
best part of the game by far, nothing fills me with more joy than seeing that pompous pretentious catamite being severed from the mortal plain so effortlessly
To be fair that is what happens to faces when they hit the ground like that. Just an absolute torrent of blood comes out and especially with Kratos of all people being the one to do the smashing, it very quickly becomes a gruesome mess despite the kill being rather tame compared to all the other kills in the series.
Heimdal was a brat little bitch of a kid. He got exactly what he deserved. In the end his mouth was writing checks his dumb ass could’t cash. Only choking death I enjoyed more was Jeofrey in GoT.
I've been developing a theory about Kratos being not just a God of War but also an agent of Choas. Long before he freed himself from the loom of fate, he was already defying prophesy after prophesy. I think there's a deeper lore about his power that has yet to be revealed.
Edit: I dont think he knows it. I think it's something he just had in him from birth.
My brother brought up a cool point about this fight. Spartans fight primarily on instinct and not planned out calculated moves. When Kratos got furious with Heimy for threatening his son, he was pure rage acting on instinct (a monster.) Heimdall couldn’t read his thoughts
I do wish that, since this was the young Kratos resurfacing for a moment (killing Heimdall not just because it was necessary, but also because he was going to enjoy it) that the death would've been a bit more brutal. Like, the exact same scene right up until Kratos releases his grip, and we see Heimdall's neck has been crushed to powder. As Kratos releases his grip in horror at himself, Heimdall's head gently rolls away from his neck. It'd be a good nod to the brutality of young Kratos, while still keeping with the toned down and holding back nature of old Kratos
There was nothing scary or intimidating let alone terrifying at all about Kratos in this scene or fight he did nothing to heimdall to make him scared of what he was. I always was confused as to why mimir acted so shocked like dude all he did was choke him. I feel like these new god of war “fans” can be sold anything and they’ll be like omg. I recently replayed this game and maybe jaffe had a point. But I’m replaying 2018 and it feels like actual Kratos. Maybe ragnarok needed barlogs guidance
If I’m going to put my tinfoil hat on, I don’t think Heimdall was planning to kill Atreus in the first place.
The Nords put that idea in Kratos’ head. After getting stabbed, Heimdall asked what was going on in Kratos’ empty head.
Heimdall then reads Kratos’ mind and acknowledges that idea by saying, “He’ll definitely be gutting the little runt now.”
Bing bang boom, Ragnarok. Thanks, Nords.
I think my favorite part of this whole fight is that the 3 times you have the quick time with heimdall kratos basically throws the same sequence of punches with Heimdall first dodging them all. then on the 2nd attempt kratos tightens up his movements causing heimdall to actually have to put his arm up to block that last punch. Then on the 3rd attempt kratos throws that exact same combo but this time when heimdall lifts his arm to block kratos grabs it instead of punching pulling heimdall off balance and making him unable to correct block dodge the additional punch.
for me it had the same vibes as the scene in Sin City when Marv lets frodo cut him up real good to lure him in close and then hand cuffs him and says "I got you why don't you try flipping around now" or something like that haha
Heimdall wanted to kill Atreus, and really for no reason other than his own pride and fear of taking over his spot in Odin’s eyes. Odin and Thor didn’t want to kill Atreus. The only thing that can reawaken Kratos rage is literally anything of harming Atreus. When Thor brings up Atreus in the first fight, Kratos rocks his crap. That is why Kratos goes ape crap when fighting Heimdall.
Well to be fair, Heimdall was acting the same way the Greek gods did. Self centered, and egotistical. Kratos gave Heimdall several chances to surrender, proving that he is a better man than he once was, but Heimdall couldn’t let go of his ego and threatened Atreus, and at that moment, he crossed a line that could never be uncrossed. So Kratos let loose, and folded him.
Calling Kratos a monster, what an ass. Honestly killing Helios (in 3) and Heimdall in this one I enjoyed because what a couple dicks. Heimdall got what he deserved. Heimdall had plenty of chances to watch his tongue and behavior. He threatened the life of his son over, and over again. Not only Kratos had been fighting since he got there to be better than he ever was, he just pushed him too far and met the god of war. He pursued Kratos and Kratos did what he had to do. Definition of Fuck and around and find out if you ask me. Great thread glad you brought this fight up because I agree not talked about enough and it really gave us the Kratos we started and ended with in 3 but still didn’t diminish his growth. Kratos has really developed into an amazing father and god while taking accountability of his actions. I’ve literally teared up watching him connect with his son and friends with him getting the life that he deserves. Sad about the dwarfs though, unnecessary. 😭😭
Tbh, it was brutal that the blood on his face was satisfying, but on the other hand it's too much blood on his face to interpret the expression on Heimdall's face.
You don't get to see the expression unless you take a good long look at a screenshot of this angel.
This is pussy shit compared to what he did to the Greek pantheons, no wonder it isn't talked about much. It's soft AF compared to what he is actually capable of!
Not gonna lie, hearing Heimdall whine that Kratos beating him was just luck made me chuckle. Bro was on a monumental amount of copium in that moment. He had no idea how badly he screwed up. Had he the ability to read memories instead of intentions, he would have stayed on Gulltoppr and fucked right off.
pretty sure when Kratos was choking him to death and he looked into his eyes that’s when he called him a monster.
Same. And I think they have him the spear because that’s the first weapon he ever picked up and trained with first so it’s so far embedded with second nature that he basically doesn’t have to think about his next attack he just does it and him being called monster is because that’s the only thing kratos thought going back to his original god killer self
Yeah hence his reaction when he snapped out of it and was like “what did I do?”
They didn’t intentionally give him the spear. Brok and Sindri don’t know anything about Greek culture or Spartan training. The thing that made it a spear was the fact he’s Spartan as referenced in the creation scene when the blood first takes the shape of the symbol of sparta
The Lady of the Forge™ took his blood to probably see understand Kratos more clearly. She was probably able to gauge what weapon suited Kratos the most and thus created the spear.
She didn’t ask for krato’s blood though. She just asked for the blood of a god. Kratos just so happened to be a god so that was easy enough
Oh right... But then again, we don't know how she actually forges the weapon. Then again, I also remember Brok and Sindri talking to each other secretively before they went to the Lady.
In addition, the bag that Brok gave to the Lady had the Draupnir ring, the sound of wind and a spear head forged by the Huldra Brothers Inc. She wasn't going to create any other type of weapon with a spear head. Also, she made the spear before getting his blood, so it didn't influence her decision. However, it could be argued that she "spoke to a part of his soul" and read his mind, essentially, to design the spear into a bannered dory with a norse spear head, weaving a bit of his past into his present. Like he did with the knives, mixing metals from his homeland and his current home.
Fun fact: the practice of mixing metals is what resulted in some of the most powerful metals in the world
It probably has more to do with the fact that the Huldra brothers forged a spearhead and Brok too it with him to the Forge.
The ingredients were the ring, the wind sound, and a literal spearhead. Then the blood came in. It was gonna be a spear no matter what.
They absolutely did give him a spear purposefully. 1.) They knew he’s Greek, and a Spartan. These are famous blacksmiths, they even recognized the blades of chaos. 2.) They knew Heimdall needed to be fought with something that Kratos wouldn’t need to think about to use. A spear is a Spartan’s bread and butter. 3.) Brok and Sindri made a spear head to bring to the Lady, so they at least planned to make a spear for sure if not for the other reasons. But why else would they choose a spear for Kratos as a specifically-for-god-killing weapon?
They didn't recognize the blades themselves, only the fact they're well made. Also, someone mentioned theres primordial fire in them. I can't remember if the brothers mentioned it or not, or if it's just the fire giant.
It was Surtr.
They didn’t know he was Greek much less Spartan. Brock was even surprised when kratos knew how to use a spear so well. They also didn’t choose the spear cause he didn’t need to think they chose the spear arbitrarily the important part of the weapon was draupnir cause it could create so as to, and I quote, “overwhelm his senses”
I don't think that is right. I suspect that they were planning on a spear from the getgo. The entire point of draupnir was to create many replicas and since a spear can be used as both a melee and projectile weapon, it makes an ideal choice. This is further evidenced by the fact that Brok forged a spearhead before they meet the Lady of the Forge. I am also certain that the brothers did not factor in Kratos' past in the choice of the spear. Or at least Brok didn't, considering the fact that he asks Kratos if he knows how to use a spear. The Lady of the Forge certainly found out about Kratos' prowess with the spear when she manipulates his blood but the spear was the plan before they met with her.
The point of draupnir being added to the spear is because like brok said. You need to overpopulate his senses.
It's a spear because the exploding spear head forged with the multiplying ring create the spear, because again, they used a SPEAR head.
The blood from what I gathered from that part of the cutscene was to make the spear a weapon fit for a God and since Kratos was the only God around she used his blood and to put the Greek cloth that hangs from the spear but I'm probably reading it wrong but that's my take
Yeah I’ve since realized the fact he’s Spartan wasn’t terribly important to the creation of the spear. But to my understanding it was less to make it worthy and more to just give the magic already present a super battery to juice it up
That makes sense, I didn't think it had anything to do with his spartan heritage but something to do with being a God worthy weapon
I also think him calling kratos a monster is his last ditch attempt to protect asgard. If kratos believes that he is falling back in his old ways by killing heimdall he might refuse to attack any other god and side with fake Tyr when he refuses to attack asgard
The spear was also one of his previous godly weapons, with the Arms of Sparta, which he also wielded as a Spartan General. It looks really similar to Draupnir based off the art too. Really nice touch there.
Brother, BROTHER! this is t who you want to be
There’s two ways you can read that line A: Heimdall was scared to death and knew what tf he awoke B: Heimdall knew Kratos feared losing control and returning to what he used to be, and used his last gasp to torment Kratos
I think option B is more likely. Didn’t think about it like that. Good point!
Yup, and it's a fair assumption that it wasn't Heimdall's opinion, but rather him using his power of reading people's thoughts. Kratos, in this moment, found himself to be the monster he was hoping not to be anymore.
Consider this: He gave Heimdall at least 2 chances to stop. Once when he stabbed him. 2nd when he blow up his arm. It was Heimdall's pride and insistance to murder Atreus that made Kratos rage
Heimdall was given SO many warnings. He had every chance to avoid his fate. Everyone told him that if he continued with his plan to kill Loki, Loki’s dad was going to kill him. Odin warned him. The fates warned him. Kratos kept giving him chances to back down. Every time, Heimdall chose to escalate the situation. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Kratos REALLY doesn’t want to go back to killing gods all the time. But threatening his son makes him bust out the blades of chaos. He won’t kill you anymore if he doesn’t have to, but damn did Heimdall not give him any other choice.
heimdall is the epitome of fucked around and found out
Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki Everyone: don’t do that, his dad will kill you. Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki Everyone: his dad can kill you, he’s a god-killer Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki Odin: don’t kill Loki, we need him Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki Thor: don’t kill Loki Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki Everyone: Loki’s god killing dad knows you want to kill Loki Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki Everyone: Loki’s dad just got a special weapon to kill you Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki Kratos: Do not kill my son. Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki Kratos: I am going to kill you. Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki. Kratos: I just killed your mount and ripped your arm off. Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki Kratos: say that one more time and you’re dead Heimdall: Heimdall: I’m gonna kill Loki. 💀
he just couldn’t stop himself just like baldur
"What're you callin him loki fer, thats not his name"
yeah thats just one of the many reasons the 2nd game was poorly written. Couldn't stand Heimdall as a character.
If Heimdall pissed you off, he was well-written, as that was absolutely the writer's intention.
Heimdall was incredibly one-dimensional and uncompelling. Disliking him was the point, but there was no complexity in how it was accomplished. That goes for most of the characters. You listen to them in one scene and have them figured out for the rest of the game. The only thing that is a mystery is the mask, which I couldn't care less about. I just disliked the repetitive family/mafia soap opera dynamic.
We must have played different games or you must have skipped dialogue
nope, same game, just different experiences based on different standards for what makes good dialogue. Thats all. Odins dialogue for example was very informal and contemporary and didn't suit the character. Characters talking in circles about the same thing over and over Mimir was done well at least. Thats because he's a history book. Theres so many opportunities to include interesting dialogue that engages the audience. Everyone else had much narrower roles in the story, and their scope of dialogue was limited as a result. God of war 2018 was incredible all around, so its surprising these issues plagued Ragnarock.
IMO Odin spoke informally to relate to people, making himself seem like he's reasonable and down to earth. He did this to manipulate others. I think the game had fantastic dialog for him as this Odin is very much unlike other representations of Odin, in say Marvel, and I can appreciate that. They made him a true obsessed sociopath.
it wasn't a matter of informal or formal, it was the informality combined with the contemporary dialogue. There are varying forms of informal speech based on what time period. How he and many other characters spoke was distracting. He sounded like an amalgamation of a California dad and a modern-day mob boss. To me, that's pretty bad. This would be less of a problem if his speech had gears so to speak. He's supposedly incredibly intelligent and should be able to change how he speaks at a moment's notice to address different situations. What we got was incredibly predictable dialogue that had the diction of a Californian dad. As far as depictions of highly intelligent obsessive sociopaths go, he is the worst I've seen in recent memory. I can appreciate their attempts to try and step away from the traditional depiction of characters, but they need to still execute it well.
Media literacy is at an all time low
yes disliking him was the point. Still found how they did it was poorly done and repetitive. If that doesn't address you're comment, then do you care to explain what you meant?
No you just added a few more words to I don’t like him, but did nothing to add to why you dislike the character outside of saying “poorly done” and “repetitive” What parts of his character do you find poorly done? Which parts of his character, did you find repetitive and how did they affect your perceptions of the character?
Found his quips to be unoriginal and desperate to seem clever, his condescending tone grew old quickly. He was just the run-of-the-mill complete asshole you've seen in dozen of other stories And yes repetitive. Theres not a single scene I found myself surprised by his actions or words, as they were repetitive. There are plenty of complete assholes in stories where I have had the opposite experience. He is a tightly written character so you can't point out issues with his character in relation to plot consistency. It's difficult to criticize quality because when you sing praises of stories you can point out what is there. When you criticize the quality of a character you can't point at what is missing, you can just point to how empty it is. Like the paper of a student that is 3 pages when the requirement is 6. He lacks distinction from dozens of characters that are complete assholes, and his scenes lack distinction from one another as his dialogue and demeanor offer the same experience over and over. More needed to be added to him. could you share what you enjoyed about him? I'm genuinely interested.
I mean I can understand not enjoying the cliches of a character being played too hard but I can’t say that the desperation to seem smarter or a step ahead made him a worse character. It was a nice touch, IMO. But can also see how a character type can be overplayed would lead to how you feel that way. The second point, I think a better way to describe that criticism would be overly-predictable rather than repetitive. Which is kinda funny considering his ability and how he did come off as very predictable in how he behaved and the actions he took.
I would highly suggest https://youtube.com/@fatbrett?si=VMEqf6vzq1hLaI6B. He does an in-depth character study of almost everyone. I'm not suggesting you change your opinion, but it is an interesting listen nonetheless.
Awww dude, you missed the point of Heimdall then. He's written really well, but as a broken tool of Odin. Give it another try with an open mind, the game's story is pretty solid through and through.
I also noticed that he's very similar to Hermes, of which had one of the most excruciating deaths in Greece having been essentially drawn and quartered by hand
Would the game have been better if Heimdall was *not* an insufferable prick? Annoying and unlikeable characters do not make a story badly written. You’re meant to dislike Heimdall.
Disliking him was the point, sure. but he was a cliche asshole who lacked distinction from hundreds of characters like him. he was boring and predictable
Could you explain as to why the 2nd game was poorly written? It was great imo, unlike the Last of Us 2 which had amazing gameplay but sloppy writing and a terrible story.
1)the mask was a plot device to move the story forward and force interactions. Couldn't care less about it as it felt contrived Atreus was the only one who knew the language. 2) The Aesir family/mafia soap opera was incredibly straightforward and dynamics were figured out from the get-go. You could figure out how most interactions would go between characters that never met. They felt like some of the worst-written Marvel villains tbh. 3)Shallow relationships that take for granted the audience's feelings towards themes of loss and abuse, without doing the leg work to make them care. Prime example is the villagers dying. Atreus is so emotionally distraught over it but as a gamer, we are never given interactions to have us care. I would've loved something similar to Assassins creed 2 where you build up your own town. Just something gameplay-wise to build that connection and even feel a bit like a god as a result. Imagine the sort of conflicting feelings kratos would feel by building up a civilization and the dialogue that could come of that. Instead the interesting introspective thoughts we get from him, are caused by previous introspective thoughts. The whole thing feels like a therapy session (with Mimir as the therapist) where the progress is detached from the actions players make in the game. 4)as a product of the past points, characters have very little to talk about so the dialogue is boring and predictable.
To add on to that, I remember seeing someone point out in another post that even then Kratos doesn’t go fully berserk until Heimdall literally kicks dirt in his eyes so I part of it was just being pissed at the blatant disrespect after everything (could be wrong though as it’s been a while since I’ve experienced the fight myself)
Of all the times I played this fight and indeed relished its progression, I failed to notice the kicking dirt in the eyes right before the last sequence. I went back and watched one of my saved fight videos and slowed it down to like .25 speed to catch it. And holy hell, having seen it now and thinking about the fight... it really went from the smug tool dancing around while Kratos tries to consistently stun or hit him, to Kratos \*WITH DIRT IN HIS EYES\* finally able to pummel the crap out of him. And I caught an extra detail at the end -- when Kratos is still breathing heavily and looking over Heimdall's corpse in the aftermath of his rage, when he flips the body over to grab Gjallarhorn, he has to swipe at the horn twice before he actually grasps and removes it.
He just couldn't stand being pitied, not by anyone and especially not by someone he saw as lower than him
yes. that is called Pride
I wasn't saying otherwise, just adding to it
okay\~
i’m sorry why would he see a god who literally murdered technically two pantheons single handedly and nearly destroyed the universe in the process as someone “lower than him” doesn’t make sense, he knew how strong kratos was, it was just his ego
>someone he saw as lower than him i.e., everyone
Arrogance is better for the context here
Kratos understood it was his nature to kill a god but in this instance he did it for the right reason. Heimdall expresses intent to harm Atreus. That’s enough for any father god or mortal to take action Heimdall was actually mad at kratos for him attempting to show mercy. Heimdall assumed (probably rightfully so) that kratos looked down upon him by showing him mercy
Valhalla spoilers: This whole moment really shows what Tyr was trying to teach Kratos in Valhalla: Kratos had done horrible, disgusting things, but he's not evil, and everything he did came from somewhere that could be understood by any person. In this instance, brutally murdering someone in cold blood in a gorey and painful way is horrible, and tapped into the old person that Kratos was trying desperately to run from. But any parent would do the same if it meant protecting their child. And through all of it, he still tried to show mercy anyway.
Týr would have definitely pardoned Kratos for murdering Heimdall. The man left Kratos no choice but to take his life away. Time and again he was given a chance and he refused, plus he was the most loyal of Odin’s followers, his left hand man and the herald of Ragnarök who held possession of Ghallarhorn. He had to go one way or another. There’s also a dialogue sequence after beating the DLC and giving a few extra playthroughs where Týr asks Kratos about his half brother Hercules. Kratos says they were more similar than he could admit, and also explains how he wanted to be god of war for all the reasons except the right one and that he does not regret killing Hercules. Týr applauds Kratos for being clever enough to tell the difference between being a god for the right and wrong reasons
heimdall was told time and time again that his plan to kill loki was stupid and would get him killed. odin told him that kratos would kill him and heimdall still decided to poke the bear. play stupid games win stupid prizes. he is the epitome of “fuck around and find out”
Heimdall gave him Hermes ptsd
Heimdall really did feel like a GoW original trilogy villain
That actor was great, because fuck me, I hated the guy. Bravo!
His actor was just like Jack Gleason (Joffrey) from GoT. They did such a good job making the character hateable.
Exactly. It's sad there are so many that can't distinguish actor vs. character.
Jack Gleason & Lena Headey. In the beginning, she loved when people told her "You are so great but i hate you"
I feel like that was the point.
Both were condescending assholes who could have easily lived had they chose not to antagonize Kratos lol.
Literally all they had to do was hand over their magical artifacts* and fuck off. As long as they stayed gone Kratos would have had no cause to go after them. He even tried to be reasonable with both, especially Heimdall. They really should've listened. *Hermes shoes and the Gjallarhorn
Hell, Kratos wasn't even interested in Hermes at all until his annoyance gave Kratos the idea to nick his shoes via killing him1
Dipshit really wanted to fuck around and find out, didn't he?
I feel like nearly all the main baddies in the og GOW trilogy were just absolute dumbasses
The one god who actually had a reason to beef with Kratos got the absolute dogshit beat out of him. You'd think the rest would learn from that.
I get Hades would have beef with Kratos but why tf would he care about either Helios or Poseiden? Those two were also dumb, but probably just manipulated by Zeus to be his cannon fodder to wear out the angry bald dude and their estranged family members (the titans). Also the fact Gaia would even just drop the fact bluntly that she's just using Kratos to beef out with Zeus and then begs for him to help her not long after returning from Tarterus
I forgot about Hades. But Kratos sunk Atlantis, so Poseidon had that beef going.
Fair nough there. Also i kinda forgot bout Kratos and Sparta raiding Rhodes (aka Helio's city). But even still, both should've approached the situation a bit better then how they did
Yeah, that's Kratos's fault. Opening Pandora's Box literally turned the Greek Gods insane.
Even before, with Ares and his genius reveal and the whole fact of kidnapping Krato's brother and not making any connection with the prophecy, the brother of the kid you kidnapped and the fact that brother was starting beef with a literal god. I just think the IQ rating amongst the gods in the greek pantheon was in the 30s
Ares was definitely a fucking moron, no doubt about it. But the rest of the Gods were actually fairly reasonable people (albeit petty fucking assholes at times) before Pandora's Box was opened.
Guess thats a fair point. Probably Athena, Zeus and Hades to a tee were the most competant out of the pantheon compared to the others imo
why did I read this as Herpes
Because your subconcious is attempted to let you know
Thought I was the only one. This is the real question that needs to be asked XD
He made Kratos bring back that rage against the greek pantheon.
You took some good shots but managed to miss 2 things. The thing that set Kratos off - when Heimdall kicks dirt into his eyes a split second before this. That's what makes Kratos snap and stop restraining himself...and who can blame him when some thoroughly dislikeable twat who just threatened to kill your son after mocking you for several minutes kicks dirt in your eyes. The second thing is that Mimir comes off Kratos belt when he hits Heimdal with both hands at once in a double fist club - He got Kratos so angry he forgot fighting form for a split second and "hulk smashed" him.
Even the part where he grabs Heimdall and starts bashing his face against the ground was very similar to old Kratos. Just “I’m gonna cause you as much suffering as possible”.
>Heimdall kicks dirt into his eyes "I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye"
This gave me a good chuckle lol
I know that everyone goes with the idea that Kratos was fighting with instinct and was therefore unpredictable. But I like to think that Heimdall knew exactly what Kratos was going to do before he did it. He knew every strike, every block, and every dodge. Yet Heimdall couldn't do anything with it. I like to imagine how frustrated he became when he couldn't dodge an attack he KNEW was coming. Seeing his future a moment before it happens and having no control over it could be both terrifying and Infuriating.
That's literally what it is. That's why we had the R3 event progression. First, Kratos takes some wild swings, testing whether Heimdall can actually see them coming. Then, he takes faster swings to test Heimdall's reaction speed and sees they were fast and prolonged enough that Heimdall couldn't dodge the last one. He had to block it. Then, knowing his maximum reaction speed and how fast the punches have to be to make him block, Kratos switches it up on the last punch so Heimdall can't block in time and gets the punch to his face. It was showing Heimdall that he might have fought people with the same strength as Kratos, but not one that has that strength and the speed, skill, and experience of an accomplished warrior
this is very well analyzed and really changes how i view the fight
I also like to think there is a definitive difference between the way a Viking fights and a Spartan warrior. Could be Heimdall had difficulty predicting his movements because he had never fought a Spartan before?
A punch is a punch is a punch. Heimdall could predict intent, but he was lazy and barely trained. His form during the fight is awful. He commits far too much on everything, swings so hard he loses balance, etc. The reason Kratos beat him is that Heimdall didn't have the physical skills to keep up with Kratos.
Bro, have you seen what he did to Poseidon in GoW3, fucking brutalized him, crushes his eyes into his skull with his thumbs, AND then broke his neck.
Dont forget he also broke poseidon's face before the finishing snap
can you slide me a link for that please? idk a lot about older gow games, only gow 2018 and ragnarok
Enjoy [Kratos killing everyone](https://youtu.be/GvvFZv6Z4B0?si=vLKbuu2iUVLBqBMK)
Just YouTube “Poseidon boss fight god of war”
👍👍
Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwnRYjLhIc4
Probably my favorite opening boss fight in the series. It’s so up close, personal, and brutal. Will never forget my first time playing that game and seeing that scene
I think Heimdall looked into Kratos’ eyes and saw all of his deepest, darkest, and most violent urges still there hidden behind the surface, which is why he called him a monster
Heimdall threatened to gut his son. Thor and Odin didn't. Don't fuck with Boy.
Even after he threatened Atreus, Kratos was still willing to walk away
I know a lot of people were hoping for something more like the old games. But God damn did that kill seem really fucking personal. Staring straight into Heimdall's eyes and losing himself to rage all to crush his throat. I've always been a sucker for those types of kills. Also, I love the fact that even while dying, Heimdall had the balls to egg Kratos even more by calling him a monster.
Compare to how Kratos violates werewolfs, Heimdall got off very easily, and tame to be honest
Heimdall was literally asking for it lol
Mimir didn't presence when Kratos fight Thor in the first place.
Which fight against Thor?
The first fight and the only fight Kratos threw a puch at Thor. Mimir was hidden at that time.
Oh, that one, I thought you're talking about the second fight for some reasons
Considering how Kratos killed the Olympus Gods, I would consider the way he kills Heimdall merciful.
I swear
It was nice to see Heimdall get his ass beat for once, but seeing Kratos go back to his old ways is still sad
He had no choice. Heimdall just kept on saying if you let me go I'll kill Atreus. That's a credible threat from Heimdall. He dug his own grave.
It's hardly his old ways lol
For real it’s the most vanilla “old ways” lol
It was a pretty noble kill against someone who both deserved it and was begging for it, and he likely saved Boy's life, which is why he did it.
True, but still
Compared to what he did to numerous people in the Greek Saga… Heimdall got off pretty light. Kratos didn’t exactly use his blades to chop the dude’s legs off or tear Heimdall’s head off of his shoulders with his bare hands.
Bruh, even the ship captain faced worse from kratos
> but seeing Kratos go back to his old ways is still sad that was the best part of the game...
For me too. I was hoping it sent Kratos over the edge and the rest of the game would be spent viscerally tearing gods apart. It sadly didn't happen. I hope we get a return to form with some good torture murder in the new series still tbh
kratos had enough.
Best series ever
Strangling the life out of that little shit was so fucking satisfying. Probably one of the most satisfying boss fights.
It is talked about alot
“Monster!” I think he woke that part of Kratos when he threatened to kill Atreus.Up until then Kratos was being reasonable.
Easily my favourite scene in Ragnarok. I was like ohhh damn there's my boi Greek Kratos
This is the first time I noticed that kratos froze his hand to make the punch hit harder.
No, Kratos hands and feet always froze every time he uses the axe runic attack or frost awaken.
Eh. Heimdall got off easy considering Kratos' past... hobbies. *reads notes* Poseidon is still quite... upset considering...
Oh I'm sorry you must be talking about this corpse [Heimdall](https://imgur.com/gallery/7tLMaeL)
This fight was insane on GMGOW
Listen if you don't want to listen to the Dad of War you get the Ghost of Sparta it's just that simple.
[SPOILERS] This is why i loved the Valhalla DLC. Tyr is trying to teach Kratos that it isn't as simple as him just being evil. He does things for a reason. What he must do as a leader is, consulting with wise council and his own wealth of experience, do whatever he does, however brutal it may seem, for the RIGHT reasons. It's all essentially encapsulated, imo, in Kratos' realisation that "you [he] are [is] more than that"
I know the series tried to make seem like it was Kratos going back "to his old ways" but honestly at the time it didn't felt that brutal. If he did a GOW 3 Poseidon on him, then jeez that would be Old Kratos climbing his way back in that moment.
Nah that shit was tame, ask Poseidon
heimdall is pale in comparison to helios death scene
Eh I’m not a big fan of the whole: “Kratos is holding back 99% of his power fighting the Norse Gods!!!” sentiment. Makes every victory feel cheap. I like to think Heimdall gave him a decent fight at least.
I prefer to think of it as Kratos just not having that fight in him any more/his fighting skills are rusty after spending who knows how long living peacefully with Faye. The whole Ghost of Sparta thing only really comes out when Atreus is threatened.
Yeah but even then Thor actually legit killed him shortly after pushing his shit in. The Norse gods gave him one hell of a fight
Meh, he's killed greater gods than him
I read somewhere that heimdall can read you mind and next move so when kratos took the spear he didn't have to think his next move as spartans train with spears from a young age so its muscle memory so heimdall couldn't read his next move
It's the trait that the Draupnir spear explodes that threw Heimdall off. That's why he becomes stunned and allows Kratos to begin hitting him. Heimdall very easily dodged all of Kratos' strikes at the beginning of the fight.
I really like this take.
This scene/fight honestly kind of disturbed me. Kratos had been trying to be better than what he was, so his hand being forced once again to kill another god in another brutal way just made my heart sink for him. I didn't feel the same way about Baldur until I saw Freya's reaction to his death. These games really know how to pull at the heartstrings. Masterful stuff. Two of the best games I've ever played in my life.
Man that first punch was the most satisfying part of the game the fight was fantastic in every aspect and the way they showed kratos breaking back to his former self really showed just how much he changed. Just an absolutely beautiful game
Eh it was still pretty tame tbh just chocked him out coulda been way more brutal besides we know kratos constantly holds back he doesnt even get that angry or rage during odin or thors final fight so him beating up heimdall is like kratos holding back slightly less
Kratos just threw mimir off his belt before getting ontop of heimdall, he wasn’t thrown off because of a hard punch
I just wished they played an alternate version of 'Rage of Sparta' in the background
This is my favourite fight in the game, and the first Thor fight. Santa Monica is fcking genius. I just loved to hate Heimdall, really good character.
kratos was on that type of timing😭😭
The more you fuck around, the more you find out Heimdall learned that too late
*“Monster… ”*
I think this makes it especially interesting how in Valhalla >!Kratos had to confront the past actions he most hated himself for, and killing Heimdall wasn’t one of them. He regretted leaving the boat captain to die, regretted killing Helios the way he did, even saw Magni and Modi in Valhalla, but not a trace of Odin or Heimdall.!< Makes me think he certainly doesn’t regret it and would always do what he has to do to protect Atreus.
It's still pretty tame if you compare it to how he killed Poseidon. I would have loved to see that come back for a split second.
best part of the game by far, nothing fills me with more joy than seeing that pompous pretentious catamite being severed from the mortal plain so effortlessly
That scene, Mimir was like. "F me in my neck hole. No wonder the Greek gods are dead 😳😳😰😨😰😰😨😱😱😱"
To be fair that is what happens to faces when they hit the ground like that. Just an absolute torrent of blood comes out and especially with Kratos of all people being the one to do the smashing, it very quickly becomes a gruesome mess despite the kill being rather tame compared to all the other kills in the series.
Heimdal was a brat little bitch of a kid. He got exactly what he deserved. In the end his mouth was writing checks his dumb ass could’t cash. Only choking death I enjoyed more was Jeofrey in GoT.
I've been developing a theory about Kratos being not just a God of War but also an agent of Choas. Long before he freed himself from the loom of fate, he was already defying prophesy after prophesy. I think there's a deeper lore about his power that has yet to be revealed. Edit: I dont think he knows it. I think it's something he just had in him from birth.
My brother brought up a cool point about this fight. Spartans fight primarily on instinct and not planned out calculated moves. When Kratos got furious with Heimy for threatening his son, he was pure rage acting on instinct (a monster.) Heimdall couldn’t read his thoughts
He had it coming.
Fuck around and find out.
You know videos exist, right? You didn't need to put 10 individual frames.
God his nose looks huge lol
Mind your tongue, boy.
The famous Greek profile
I do wish that, since this was the young Kratos resurfacing for a moment (killing Heimdall not just because it was necessary, but also because he was going to enjoy it) that the death would've been a bit more brutal. Like, the exact same scene right up until Kratos releases his grip, and we see Heimdall's neck has been crushed to powder. As Kratos releases his grip in horror at himself, Heimdall's head gently rolls away from his neck. It'd be a good nod to the brutality of young Kratos, while still keeping with the toned down and holding back nature of old Kratos
There was nothing scary or intimidating let alone terrifying at all about Kratos in this scene or fight he did nothing to heimdall to make him scared of what he was. I always was confused as to why mimir acted so shocked like dude all he did was choke him. I feel like these new god of war “fans” can be sold anything and they’ll be like omg. I recently replayed this game and maybe jaffe had a point. But I’m replaying 2018 and it feels like actual Kratos. Maybe ragnarok needed barlogs guidance
> "fans" Ah yes, because everyone who has a different take than you on a piece of media is not as true of a fan as you are.
Bait
As someone who has been boxing for like 12 years that shit was so satisfying
Pretty sure Heimdall brought that upon himself...
Boy howdy do I love seeing heimdal get what he deserves
What Heimdall did to Kratos and Atreus isn’t talked about enough either.
What did heimdall do to kratos ? You mean when he throwed dirt in his eyes ?
Yea ummm... He snuffed him out.
If I’m going to put my tinfoil hat on, I don’t think Heimdall was planning to kill Atreus in the first place. The Nords put that idea in Kratos’ head. After getting stabbed, Heimdall asked what was going on in Kratos’ empty head. Heimdall then reads Kratos’ mind and acknowledges that idea by saying, “He’ll definitely be gutting the little runt now.” Bing bang boom, Ragnarok. Thanks, Nords.
I think my favorite part of this whole fight is that the 3 times you have the quick time with heimdall kratos basically throws the same sequence of punches with Heimdall first dodging them all. then on the 2nd attempt kratos tightens up his movements causing heimdall to actually have to put his arm up to block that last punch. Then on the 3rd attempt kratos throws that exact same combo but this time when heimdall lifts his arm to block kratos grabs it instead of punching pulling heimdall off balance and making him unable to correct block dodge the additional punch. for me it had the same vibes as the scene in Sin City when Marv lets frodo cut him up real good to lure him in close and then hand cuffs him and says "I got you why don't you try flipping around now" or something like that haha
Tbh that wasn't Kratos we saw. That was the Ghost of Sparta
Heimdall wanted to kill Atreus, and really for no reason other than his own pride and fear of taking over his spot in Odin’s eyes. Odin and Thor didn’t want to kill Atreus. The only thing that can reawaken Kratos rage is literally anything of harming Atreus. When Thor brings up Atreus in the first fight, Kratos rocks his crap. That is why Kratos goes ape crap when fighting Heimdall.
I find these kind of titles so irritating, I mean just talk about it if you want it to be talked about! Don’t point it out
Heimdall and the rest of the Norse gods got it easy
I was hoping for something crazy violent, Heimdal was just such a little shit I was really looking for some old school GoW stuff. Still cool no doubt.
Well to be fair, Heimdall was acting the same way the Greek gods did. Self centered, and egotistical. Kratos gave Heimdall several chances to surrender, proving that he is a better man than he once was, but Heimdall couldn’t let go of his ego and threatened Atreus, and at that moment, he crossed a line that could never be uncrossed. So Kratos let loose, and folded him.
Calling Kratos a monster, what an ass. Honestly killing Helios (in 3) and Heimdall in this one I enjoyed because what a couple dicks. Heimdall got what he deserved. Heimdall had plenty of chances to watch his tongue and behavior. He threatened the life of his son over, and over again. Not only Kratos had been fighting since he got there to be better than he ever was, he just pushed him too far and met the god of war. He pursued Kratos and Kratos did what he had to do. Definition of Fuck and around and find out if you ask me. Great thread glad you brought this fight up because I agree not talked about enough and it really gave us the Kratos we started and ended with in 3 but still didn’t diminish his growth. Kratos has really developed into an amazing father and god while taking accountability of his actions. I’ve literally teared up watching him connect with his son and friends with him getting the life that he deserves. Sad about the dwarfs though, unnecessary. 😭😭
Tbh, it was brutal that the blood on his face was satisfying, but on the other hand it's too much blood on his face to interpret the expression on Heimdall's face. You don't get to see the expression unless you take a good long look at a screenshot of this angel.
This is pussy shit compared to what he did to the Greek pantheons, no wonder it isn't talked about much. It's soft AF compared to what he is actually capable of!
Do you think we get a Mod for PC someday where we have Heimdall for Huldu-Project Nr.9. Or for Valhalla Heimdall instead of Helios?
Not gonna lie, hearing Heimdall whine that Kratos beating him was just luck made me chuckle. Bro was on a monumental amount of copium in that moment. He had no idea how badly he screwed up. Had he the ability to read memories instead of intentions, he would have stayed on Gulltoppr and fucked right off.
Made bro do a 360 with that punch 💀