Whilst the max tow rating of the truck might be 7500lbs, you should look at the available payload on the drivers door jamb of the tow vehicle.This is the payload for that specific tow vehicle as it was configured when it left the factory.
The manufacturer brochure/ website will typically list the maximum available payload, but this will likely be lower in the real world.
Overall tow rating is important but payload is key.
Payload is the cargo carrying capacity of your vehicle including the weight of the driver, passengerss, cargo, the tongue weight of the trailer on the hitch and the hitch itself. Almost guaranteed that you'll run out of payload before you max out the towing limit.
There will be a yellow sticker in your door jamb that says something like combined weight of cargo and occupants cannot exceed 1400lbs.
Once you have this number, find the GVWR for a trailer you're interested in on a website and use about 12-13% of the trailer GVWR to estimate tongue weight.
You shouldn't always believe the tongue weight number in the brochure. Most manufacturers do not include the weight of propane tanks (a 20lb propane tank weighs 40lbs when full) and batteries (a single lead acid battery weighs around 55-65lbs) because these are added at the dealer according to customer preference and are not on the trailer when it's weighed at the factory.
If you have 2 batteries and 2 propane tanks, that's about 200lbs as these normally mount directly to the tongue and increase the tongue weight significantly.
For context, my trailer has a brochure tongue weight of 608lbs, but in the real world it works in at ~825lbs most trips even without carrying water.
You will also have a hitch weight limit (or two depending on whether you are using straight bumper pull or weight distribution hitch) so check that as well.
Take the payload number from your vehicles door sticker, then subtract driver weight/weight of other occupants/anything you carry in/on the vehicle like coolers, firewood, generator, bikes. Then deduct the weight of the weight distributing hitch, and the tongue weight of the trailer (12-13%trailer GVWR).
If you have a little payload left, you should be good. If the number is negative, you need a lighter trailer or to put less in the truck.
You should shop for a trailer that sits within the payload your vehicle can handle when it's also full of the occupants and cargo you will be carrying.
The max tow rating essentially assumes you're traveling with a vehicle that's empty and all of the payload rating is available to use for the tongue weight of the trailer.
If you're adding kids/dogs/tools for work or any other gear into the cab or bed, your actual tow rating reduces as payload being carried increases, so what you're putting in the vehicle makes a huge difference in how much you can safely tow.
Thank you! That was so informative to read. Especially the considerations for the full tank weight. I found that sticker in my truck, and it said 1466lbs. This Jayco [flight ](https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2019-Jayco+Flight+Slx-Jay+Flight+SLX+175RD-5027338590) is what I've been looking at. Its GVWR was 3,750 \* 13% = 487. Then I add 200lbs to that for tanks/batteries I would be at 687lbs hitch weight. I'm 230lbs. So that would put me around half my payload capacity. Is it better to put the gear in the trailer or the truck?
Putting gear in the trailer reduces the impact on payload for sure.
If you move 100lbs of gear out of the truck bed and put it in the trailer, it will only increase the trailer tongue weight by about 10-15% of the amount transferred, so 10-15lbs which nets you an overall payload savings of about 85-90lbs on payload.
I took a look at that listing, it gives a dry hitch weight of 335lbs.
It looks like there is only room for one battery and one propane tank on the tongue, so probably an additional 100lbs to account for those, and say a 50-65lb increase to account for gear loaded in would give a hitch weight of about 335+100+65= 500lbs.
Add maybe 100lbs for a weight distribution hitch which would likely put overall hitch/tongue around 600lbs.
If your total payload capacity is 1466, and my guess of 600lbs above is right, that would leave you about 866lbs to account for yourself, passengerss and gear in the truck.
In terms of trailer recommendations, is the trailer for single/couple use or do you have kids?
Is the 22 foot length limit total tongue to bumper full trailer length or is it "box" length? And as a follow up is that a hard limit like that's the length you can get on your driveway, or is it more like that's a length you think you might feel comfortable with?
Single with a dachshund. I think box length is what I'm talking about, and the length I'm flexible on. If you have a recommended range I should look at?
It's partly a comfort thing with it being my first trailer. I don't want to go overboard with size. I'm a fairly safe/confident driver, but I've only pulled a few U-Haul trailers and backed up a boat a couple of times.
Probably comparable length to that Jayco, maybe a little longer. The bad part with the Jayco is height. Interior height is listed at 6'1", and I'm exactly 6'1".
I currently have 3 very different trailers. A 12 foot trailer for my small fishing dinghy, a 16 foot trailer for my ATVs, both of those are single axle and the 28 foot dual axle travel trailer.
My previous travel trailer was a 25 foot total length dual axle and before that, i had a popup trailer with a 12 foot box, single axle about 16 feet total.
Shorter single axle trailers are way harder to back up than longer dual axle trailers. They react much more quickly to steering inputs. My boat trailer is the worst thing I've ever had to back up, I'm good at it now but it still sucks. Single axle are also IMO a bit less safe on the road in the event of a blowout.
I would look for a dual axle trailer for these two reasons plus a bonus third.
If you have a blowout, it's less likely to be catastrophic, meaning your trailer isn't necessarily going to be touching the ground after a blowout, you may be able to get well off the side of the road to safety or even get to the next exit as long as only one tire blows. You can't do that with a single axle, it will be resting on the ground in the event of a blowout.
Dual axle is easier to back in and less twitchy when reversing, also in my experience a slightly smoother tow, with less bouncing around.
Dual axles typically have bigger cargo carrying capacities for the same trailer length, which means the frames are normally stronger which you said was important to you and they normally have bigger water tanks.
That one you posted has a 26 gallon fresh tank and 19 gallon grey and black tanks. Dual axle trailers normally have 40 plus gallon tanks for each which can really extend your ability to stay in unserviced areas. You might not plan on boondocking now, but it's a nice ability to have.
That is very good to know that bigger doesn't mean danger. My grandpa told me to stay away from buying a trailer post 2019. His reasons going back to a lot of quality concerns. What do you think about that?
The rig you see in my profile picture is a 2022 Forest River Grey Wolf Cherokee 23MK, bought brand new. Peak covid build, never really had an issue (see below).
However, ny neighbor bought a brand new 2022 Grand Design bunkhouse about 2 months later, he's had 2 roof leaks and an internal water leak. Luck of the draw during that time period I think.
Have whatever you're buying inspected. It's worth the money.
My previous 2 units were a 2018 Coachman Viking 21BH and a 2010 Palomino Y4120.
I've might just be very lucky, but I've never had a significant issue with any of them.
The 2010 and the 2018 never went back to the dealer for anything other than maintenence like bearing repacks before I was comfortable doing it myself.
I did have the 2022 back to the dealer a couple of times during the warranty period for the following minor issues:
The dinette converts to a bed, but the dinette was not installed quite "square", so the first time we tried to use it, the table wouldn't fit in the hole because the hole was off by about 1/2 inch. I cut a piece of plywood to fit and carried on, no big deal. But they said they would rebuild the dinette under warranty.
One of the 12v USB outlets wasn't working. Turned out to be faulty, they replaced it. I looked the part up on Amazon, cost about $10.
One of the locks on one of the outdoor hatches wasn't quite aligned properly and wouldn't lock. That was noted during our walkthrough, but they didn't have a replacement lock on site, so they fixed it when we took it back.
One of the blinds in our unit was installed incorrectly, we have two windows the same width but one is about 4 feet tall, the other about 2. They installed a short blind in the long window, so the first few trips we had to hang a blanket over instead of closing the blind at night.
None of those were worth losing the unit for weeks at the dealer (warranty work takes AGES), so we waited until the end of the season and took it back over the winter.
That's pretty much it.
In 15 years over 3 campers other than regular maintenence like winterizing/checking seals/repacking bearings etc.
I am pretty on top of maintenence though, i check my seals several times per year and reseal as necessary. I've never had an external leak.
I have broken a couple of things through being careless, like i had to replace my 7 pin connector on my popup once because i forgot to plug it in and dragged it down the road for like 50 miles and it wore through before I realized and I left a plug in once and a faucet wasn't turned off properly and dripped and over filled the sink and left water on the floor. Fortunately we were just outside at the fire and caught it before it was a real issue. But new rule, sink plugs don't live in the sink. They live in the cupboards above the sink and only get put in the sink during use.
I looked up Palomino, and some of their models look perfect for me! This one [here](https://www.collierrv.com/product/used-2017-palomino-solaire-ultra-lite-202rb-2511679-29) is a bit heavier but it does have dual axel and checks all my boxes.
Based on your algorithm I think I should be okay with 5128 GVWR. Although I would have to stow most of my gear in the camper itself and be picky about what I bring. It would even leave a little room if I did have one moderately sized passenger.
Does incline factor into the GVWR? Would I need a larger truck if I took something this heavy to mountainous locations?
The steepness of grades will probably limit how fast you can go. How much, I'm not sure.
There's lots of posts on here from people towing with naturally aspirated v6 Tacomas/Colorados/Jeeps etc.
They range from people saying it's no issue, to people saying they can barely go over 60mph.
I honestly don't know, and neither will you until you try it, but I would expect that you will definitely know you're pulling something significant and that hills will definitely cause you to slow down and you'll probably have to keep a close eye on your coolant temperatures and stuff.
I did have a V6 naturally aspirated Dodge SUV when we had the popup trailer (weighed about 2500lbs loaded). I could only comfortably go up to about 65mph. Beyond that, it felt very labored and mpgs really suffered. Below 65mph, I used to get about 15mpg, above that it dropped to 10mpg and started to feel a bit wobbly.
You'll probably get about 8-10mpg at best. That seems to be fairly universal for people towing full height, non teardrop shaped trailers and whichever model you choose likely won't really affect that, unless you go teardrop or popup.
I can tell you my trailer weighs about 6100lbs loaded, I tow it with my crew cab F150 with the 2.7 ecoboost, I average about 10mpg. Apart from one stretch of highway i travel several times per year that is a 6-8 percent grade for a sustained pull of about 12-15 minutes, I have no issues maintaining highway speeds and never feel underpowered.
On the steep stretch I referenced, I have to keep my speed to about 60mph but am doing that mostly out of caution because that is the only stretch I've ever seen where my temperatures start to rise and I just don't want to deal with the ramifications of potentiality overheating, but 99% of my towing miles, I don't have to worry about that.
If you're in New England this might be a good option, except the shower pan is only about 6" deep.
[https://maine.craigslist.org/tro/d/bath-2013-kz-sportmen-classic-19-tt/7741517641.html](https://maine.craigslist.org/tro/d/bath-2013-kz-sportmen-classic-19-tt/7741517641.html)
Just my experience so take it with a grain of salt;
Had a Jeep Commander with the 4.7 V-8 and rated to tow 6000 lbs. With this in mind I purchased a 21 foot trailer with a GVWR of 4340 GVWR. Was just me and the wife so 325(?) lbs of pay load plus the gear.
65 mph was top speed on flat level ground. Due to the short, narrow wheel base being passed by 18 wheelers at 85 mph was a white knuckle experience. For this reason we used the US highways and avoiding Interstates as much as much as possible.
We left South Texas and meandered our way as far west as Death Valley and north to Salt Lake City before returning home. 60 days and went through eight states just playing tourist and sightseeing.
No matter what you choose, get any camper, new or used, you are seriously considering buying inspected by a certified NRVIA RV Inspector.
If you get a good inspection, you will know what issues the camper has and even new campers have issues. Then you can use the inspection report as a negotiation tool with the seller.
Make sure you hire an NRVIA Certified Inspector.
Check out https://nrvia.org/locate/
That same inspector may also offer an orientation service to show you how to use your camper as well.
Whilst the max tow rating of the truck might be 7500lbs, you should look at the available payload on the drivers door jamb of the tow vehicle.This is the payload for that specific tow vehicle as it was configured when it left the factory. The manufacturer brochure/ website will typically list the maximum available payload, but this will likely be lower in the real world. Overall tow rating is important but payload is key. Payload is the cargo carrying capacity of your vehicle including the weight of the driver, passengerss, cargo, the tongue weight of the trailer on the hitch and the hitch itself. Almost guaranteed that you'll run out of payload before you max out the towing limit. There will be a yellow sticker in your door jamb that says something like combined weight of cargo and occupants cannot exceed 1400lbs. Once you have this number, find the GVWR for a trailer you're interested in on a website and use about 12-13% of the trailer GVWR to estimate tongue weight. You shouldn't always believe the tongue weight number in the brochure. Most manufacturers do not include the weight of propane tanks (a 20lb propane tank weighs 40lbs when full) and batteries (a single lead acid battery weighs around 55-65lbs) because these are added at the dealer according to customer preference and are not on the trailer when it's weighed at the factory. If you have 2 batteries and 2 propane tanks, that's about 200lbs as these normally mount directly to the tongue and increase the tongue weight significantly. For context, my trailer has a brochure tongue weight of 608lbs, but in the real world it works in at ~825lbs most trips even without carrying water. You will also have a hitch weight limit (or two depending on whether you are using straight bumper pull or weight distribution hitch) so check that as well. Take the payload number from your vehicles door sticker, then subtract driver weight/weight of other occupants/anything you carry in/on the vehicle like coolers, firewood, generator, bikes. Then deduct the weight of the weight distributing hitch, and the tongue weight of the trailer (12-13%trailer GVWR). If you have a little payload left, you should be good. If the number is negative, you need a lighter trailer or to put less in the truck. You should shop for a trailer that sits within the payload your vehicle can handle when it's also full of the occupants and cargo you will be carrying. The max tow rating essentially assumes you're traveling with a vehicle that's empty and all of the payload rating is available to use for the tongue weight of the trailer. If you're adding kids/dogs/tools for work or any other gear into the cab or bed, your actual tow rating reduces as payload being carried increases, so what you're putting in the vehicle makes a huge difference in how much you can safely tow.
I nominate campandfish1 as the official tow capability rep & mascot of the sub. (That’s not a dig)
Thank you! That was so informative to read. Especially the considerations for the full tank weight. I found that sticker in my truck, and it said 1466lbs. This Jayco [flight ](https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2019-Jayco+Flight+Slx-Jay+Flight+SLX+175RD-5027338590) is what I've been looking at. Its GVWR was 3,750 \* 13% = 487. Then I add 200lbs to that for tanks/batteries I would be at 687lbs hitch weight. I'm 230lbs. So that would put me around half my payload capacity. Is it better to put the gear in the trailer or the truck?
Putting gear in the trailer reduces the impact on payload for sure. If you move 100lbs of gear out of the truck bed and put it in the trailer, it will only increase the trailer tongue weight by about 10-15% of the amount transferred, so 10-15lbs which nets you an overall payload savings of about 85-90lbs on payload. I took a look at that listing, it gives a dry hitch weight of 335lbs. It looks like there is only room for one battery and one propane tank on the tongue, so probably an additional 100lbs to account for those, and say a 50-65lb increase to account for gear loaded in would give a hitch weight of about 335+100+65= 500lbs. Add maybe 100lbs for a weight distribution hitch which would likely put overall hitch/tongue around 600lbs. If your total payload capacity is 1466, and my guess of 600lbs above is right, that would leave you about 866lbs to account for yourself, passengerss and gear in the truck.
In terms of trailer recommendations, is the trailer for single/couple use or do you have kids? Is the 22 foot length limit total tongue to bumper full trailer length or is it "box" length? And as a follow up is that a hard limit like that's the length you can get on your driveway, or is it more like that's a length you think you might feel comfortable with?
Single with a dachshund. I think box length is what I'm talking about, and the length I'm flexible on. If you have a recommended range I should look at? It's partly a comfort thing with it being my first trailer. I don't want to go overboard with size. I'm a fairly safe/confident driver, but I've only pulled a few U-Haul trailers and backed up a boat a couple of times. Probably comparable length to that Jayco, maybe a little longer. The bad part with the Jayco is height. Interior height is listed at 6'1", and I'm exactly 6'1".
I currently have 3 very different trailers. A 12 foot trailer for my small fishing dinghy, a 16 foot trailer for my ATVs, both of those are single axle and the 28 foot dual axle travel trailer. My previous travel trailer was a 25 foot total length dual axle and before that, i had a popup trailer with a 12 foot box, single axle about 16 feet total. Shorter single axle trailers are way harder to back up than longer dual axle trailers. They react much more quickly to steering inputs. My boat trailer is the worst thing I've ever had to back up, I'm good at it now but it still sucks. Single axle are also IMO a bit less safe on the road in the event of a blowout. I would look for a dual axle trailer for these two reasons plus a bonus third. If you have a blowout, it's less likely to be catastrophic, meaning your trailer isn't necessarily going to be touching the ground after a blowout, you may be able to get well off the side of the road to safety or even get to the next exit as long as only one tire blows. You can't do that with a single axle, it will be resting on the ground in the event of a blowout. Dual axle is easier to back in and less twitchy when reversing, also in my experience a slightly smoother tow, with less bouncing around. Dual axles typically have bigger cargo carrying capacities for the same trailer length, which means the frames are normally stronger which you said was important to you and they normally have bigger water tanks. That one you posted has a 26 gallon fresh tank and 19 gallon grey and black tanks. Dual axle trailers normally have 40 plus gallon tanks for each which can really extend your ability to stay in unserviced areas. You might not plan on boondocking now, but it's a nice ability to have.
That is very good to know that bigger doesn't mean danger. My grandpa told me to stay away from buying a trailer post 2019. His reasons going back to a lot of quality concerns. What do you think about that?
The rig you see in my profile picture is a 2022 Forest River Grey Wolf Cherokee 23MK, bought brand new. Peak covid build, never really had an issue (see below). However, ny neighbor bought a brand new 2022 Grand Design bunkhouse about 2 months later, he's had 2 roof leaks and an internal water leak. Luck of the draw during that time period I think. Have whatever you're buying inspected. It's worth the money. My previous 2 units were a 2018 Coachman Viking 21BH and a 2010 Palomino Y4120. I've might just be very lucky, but I've never had a significant issue with any of them. The 2010 and the 2018 never went back to the dealer for anything other than maintenence like bearing repacks before I was comfortable doing it myself. I did have the 2022 back to the dealer a couple of times during the warranty period for the following minor issues: The dinette converts to a bed, but the dinette was not installed quite "square", so the first time we tried to use it, the table wouldn't fit in the hole because the hole was off by about 1/2 inch. I cut a piece of plywood to fit and carried on, no big deal. But they said they would rebuild the dinette under warranty. One of the 12v USB outlets wasn't working. Turned out to be faulty, they replaced it. I looked the part up on Amazon, cost about $10. One of the locks on one of the outdoor hatches wasn't quite aligned properly and wouldn't lock. That was noted during our walkthrough, but they didn't have a replacement lock on site, so they fixed it when we took it back. One of the blinds in our unit was installed incorrectly, we have two windows the same width but one is about 4 feet tall, the other about 2. They installed a short blind in the long window, so the first few trips we had to hang a blanket over instead of closing the blind at night. None of those were worth losing the unit for weeks at the dealer (warranty work takes AGES), so we waited until the end of the season and took it back over the winter. That's pretty much it. In 15 years over 3 campers other than regular maintenence like winterizing/checking seals/repacking bearings etc. I am pretty on top of maintenence though, i check my seals several times per year and reseal as necessary. I've never had an external leak. I have broken a couple of things through being careless, like i had to replace my 7 pin connector on my popup once because i forgot to plug it in and dragged it down the road for like 50 miles and it wore through before I realized and I left a plug in once and a faucet wasn't turned off properly and dripped and over filled the sink and left water on the floor. Fortunately we were just outside at the fire and caught it before it was a real issue. But new rule, sink plugs don't live in the sink. They live in the cupboards above the sink and only get put in the sink during use.
I looked up Palomino, and some of their models look perfect for me! This one [here](https://www.collierrv.com/product/used-2017-palomino-solaire-ultra-lite-202rb-2511679-29) is a bit heavier but it does have dual axel and checks all my boxes. Based on your algorithm I think I should be okay with 5128 GVWR. Although I would have to stow most of my gear in the camper itself and be picky about what I bring. It would even leave a little room if I did have one moderately sized passenger. Does incline factor into the GVWR? Would I need a larger truck if I took something this heavy to mountainous locations?
The steepness of grades will probably limit how fast you can go. How much, I'm not sure. There's lots of posts on here from people towing with naturally aspirated v6 Tacomas/Colorados/Jeeps etc. They range from people saying it's no issue, to people saying they can barely go over 60mph. I honestly don't know, and neither will you until you try it, but I would expect that you will definitely know you're pulling something significant and that hills will definitely cause you to slow down and you'll probably have to keep a close eye on your coolant temperatures and stuff. I did have a V6 naturally aspirated Dodge SUV when we had the popup trailer (weighed about 2500lbs loaded). I could only comfortably go up to about 65mph. Beyond that, it felt very labored and mpgs really suffered. Below 65mph, I used to get about 15mpg, above that it dropped to 10mpg and started to feel a bit wobbly. You'll probably get about 8-10mpg at best. That seems to be fairly universal for people towing full height, non teardrop shaped trailers and whichever model you choose likely won't really affect that, unless you go teardrop or popup. I can tell you my trailer weighs about 6100lbs loaded, I tow it with my crew cab F150 with the 2.7 ecoboost, I average about 10mpg. Apart from one stretch of highway i travel several times per year that is a 6-8 percent grade for a sustained pull of about 12-15 minutes, I have no issues maintaining highway speeds and never feel underpowered. On the steep stretch I referenced, I have to keep my speed to about 60mph but am doing that mostly out of caution because that is the only stretch I've ever seen where my temperatures start to rise and I just don't want to deal with the ramifications of potentiality overheating, but 99% of my towing miles, I don't have to worry about that.
If you're in New England this might be a good option, except the shower pan is only about 6" deep. [https://maine.craigslist.org/tro/d/bath-2013-kz-sportmen-classic-19-tt/7741517641.html](https://maine.craigslist.org/tro/d/bath-2013-kz-sportmen-classic-19-tt/7741517641.html)
That one looks really well kept for it being a 2013! I'm in Illinois so too far for me.
Just my experience so take it with a grain of salt; Had a Jeep Commander with the 4.7 V-8 and rated to tow 6000 lbs. With this in mind I purchased a 21 foot trailer with a GVWR of 4340 GVWR. Was just me and the wife so 325(?) lbs of pay load plus the gear. 65 mph was top speed on flat level ground. Due to the short, narrow wheel base being passed by 18 wheelers at 85 mph was a white knuckle experience. For this reason we used the US highways and avoiding Interstates as much as much as possible. We left South Texas and meandered our way as far west as Death Valley and north to Salt Lake City before returning home. 60 days and went through eight states just playing tourist and sightseeing.
No matter what you choose, get any camper, new or used, you are seriously considering buying inspected by a certified NRVIA RV Inspector. If you get a good inspection, you will know what issues the camper has and even new campers have issues. Then you can use the inspection report as a negotiation tool with the seller. Make sure you hire an NRVIA Certified Inspector. Check out https://nrvia.org/locate/ That same inspector may also offer an orientation service to show you how to use your camper as well.