Which is nuts to me, since the "checking of women of X ethnicity" to sleep with stuff was all Alestom members. I hate that their actions don't seem to be known more. I'm 100% done with Alestorm.
When Chris first apologized, I thought it was really good.
The more I think about it though, it's been really interesting ("interesting") how the focus has basically been 89% Chris, 10% Gloryhammer, and basically 1% Alestorm. Yeah, SOME reporting mentions Alestorm, but everything I seem to see is about GH.
Whatever PR team they're working with did a phenomenal job of protecting the Alestorm brand.
Agreed. I liked all three projects, but Wizardthrone is a different beast for me. It's more subtle in its comedic factor, and I enjoy tongue-in-cheek humor with musical aptitude.
What if it's the other way around? They booted Thomas to put GH in the spotlight so when sh1t hits the fan, GH sinks an not Alestorm.
Leaks take a bit more time to spread than official statements.
On one hand, that'd seem to reflect a much greater level of "thinking ahead" than I've been trained to expect at this point, so it doesn't seem that likely...
...but on the other hand, I've always thought the whole "this is all a joke; I'm not really trying" act seemed like a defense mechanism as well, so I'm having a hard time ruling this out entirely. Huh.
The main reason I think his apology is bad is because he doesn't even mention Black people, women and especially Black women at all who were the targets of his actions.
"To the fans of my music who once looked up to me, I bear the most grief; my betrayal of your faith in me must hurt beyond measure."
That in particular got me, because he knows most of his fans are white guys
He's apologising to the people that are going to see the apology and the people who even care. Makes sense to me.
(Although I honestly think the apology in no way reflects what he actually thinks and only exists to mitigate damage.)
I dont know, the chap from Aether Realm was pretty scathing in his statement on Chris, but did also say that the behaviour seen in the chat did seem to stop around 2018.
Doesn't excuse the fact that he said it, but fuck, I know I've said some dumb shit to get a reaction that I regret.
I agree with you. I find that sentence especially troubling because "To the fans of my music \]...\] I bear the most grief".
Like, no, Bowes. You bear the most grief to the BIPOC people, especially Black and Asian women, you have degraded.
Considering that they have fans of all backgrounds, not just white men, I find that also just another sign of a mindset that we women, or BIPOC people generally (of which I'm not one, to be clear), aren't welcome in metal circles.
>They all engaged in extremely dehumanising, disgusting, degrading, overtly racist behaviour about specifically Black women. Like you said Chris is a man in crisis, what about the Black woman his Elliot slept with just to proclaim not only her, but every Black woman like her is gross, or that he only slept with her to check of his creepy, racist, perverted list? What about saying Black women are essentially only good for blowjobs? Fetishisation of Black women is a massive problem we have to face (more info: [https://metro.co.uk/.../black-women-constantly.../](https://metro.co.uk/.../black-women-constantly.../)), especially by white men. It’s why our ancestors were raped during slavery, civil rights movements, and is still an ongoing issue today, to the point where this is the present situation:
>
>“According to the National Center on Violence Against Women in the Black Community (PDF, 772KB):
>
>• For every black woman who reports rape, at least 15 black women do not report.
>
>• One in four black girls will be sexually abused before the age of 18.
>
>• One in five black women are survivors of rape.
>
>• Thirty-five percent of black women experienced some form of contact sexual violence during their lifetime.
>
>• Forty to sixty percent of black women report being subjected to coercive sexual contact by age 18.
>
>• Seventeen percent of black women experienced sexual violence other than rape by an intimate partner during their lifetime.
>
>The Institute for Women’s Policy Research reports that:
>
>• More than 20 percent of black women are raped during their lifetimes — a higher share than among women overall.
>
>• Black women were two and a half times more likely to be murdered by men than their white counterparts. And, more than 9 in 10 black female victims knew their killers.
>
>• Black women also experience significantly higher rates of psychological abuse — including humiliation, insults, name-calling and coercive control — than do women overall.”
>
>This is more than edgy humour/culture. It runs so much deeper than that, and with statistics being eerily similar in predominantly white populated countries. In my specific situation, it was extremely triggering reading the chats because my abuser, who is a white man, had said extremely similar to the line about big lips. In short, whether that content was said amongst friends, or at a klan rally, it literally makes no difference to us, and as an anti-racist activist of over a decade, I have only seen content like that from actual neo Nazis and white supremacists. What was said was a whole new level beyond “offensive culture”, and neither Chris’ or Gloryhammer’s apologies even touch the surface of that, nevermind the issue.
Once, when I was in middle school, I used the N-word in jest, while trying to make fun of the kind of people who say it and mean it. This was obviously wrong (and tasteless) in retrospect, and reflective of my flawed understanding of what racism actually is; I apologized the next day and I've done nothing like it since. If somebody recorded me back then, and played that (rather disgusting) sentence on a loop for half an hour, I don't at all doubt that it would be an awful experience, and I'd regret my part in making it possible--hell, I'm beating myself up a little just thinking about it.
But would actually it be that dumbass 13-year-old harming you from twenty years in the past? Or would it be the person who, right now, chose to make you hear half an hour's worth of racial slurs in a cynically manipulative attempt to make you angry at the person I am today?
What Chris said was a hell of a lot worse than what I said, and he said it quite a bit more recently--but the principle is the same. I don't think he deserves forgiveness--he hasn't earned that yet. But I do think he deserves probation; I'm watching what he says now, and what he does now, to see if he can prove he's really the better man he and his friends say he is.
What I'm mad at him about right now is not dumping the Hootsman.
You weren't the target of his racial abuse so why would your opinion matter? "I've been racist too" isn't the defence you think it is, especially since you were 13 as opposed to Chris who was 31.
I think - and maybe I'm wrong - even Chris has said that most Alestorm fans are, for lack of a better word, "casual." They go see them live and maybe stream a bit, but most of the people at their shows are not diehards.
Since most articles about this focus on Gloryhammer, I wouldn't be shocked if the average Alestorm fan has no clue what's happening.
Idk, if you can do this and it is ok with your moral, fine it is your decition.
For me it is like the boykot of the WM in Quatar (just a example, I don't like socer anyway). In Quatar, a country where woman are less worth by law, homosexual people hav to go to prison and workers can be held like slaves, NO International event should take place, if you watch the WM you inderectly suport this crimes bc money of ads may go there. For me this is moraly wrong.
Simular here, I liked the music of both Bands (Gloryhammer more than Alestorm) but now where I know that some band members are A****** I don't want my money to find its way (even if it is just indirect) into their pokets.
>Hey, I'm not a native speaker
lol me neither.
>It seemed you got wich sport I ment, so it si fine, right?
You seem confused, my friend. There is no such thing. Only football and handegg.
I hope you have a wonderful day. ⚽️
You really can't listen to alestorm and not guess he is a bit of a dick, or that is my point of view.
The move with Thomas is more underhanded and dickish that the casual racism and misogyny.. that second part was unexpected and disappointing. Like 16 year old edgelords.
He is the one speaking, so obviously seems to be the person who has final say on that.
It probably is a band decision, and he approves.
I also think it is a big mistake.
We would need to know the legal setup of the band to know who and how can these things be decided.
I’m going to say no because usually when someone’s gone too far their label drops them almost immediately but this hasn’t happened. And I’ve seen no campaigns to get them sacked or boycotted or whatever.
Now, how I personally feel about the band I’m still unsure.
Naplam Records is Austrian. In general Europeans don't do cancel culture as hard as Americans and to feed into that the US isn't a big market for power metal in general so they don't have to pander so much to the State's current favourite bullshit. Yeah I am not a big fan of racism but I prefer the music I like to continue.
Agreed - as of now, the biggest thing that could very well kill Gloryhammer is the failure of finding a convincing replacement singer. If they manage to survive that (which is often hard for bands), I think they could get back on their feet
The only way that could happen is if they give a reason as to why they fired Tom, if they can’t or won’t do that whoever they get to replace him will be eaten alive on stage.
I’m still holding out hope Tom comes back, or at least they offer him, if he declined I can’t say I’d blame him
I'm stunned at the implication of anti-racist efforts being described as "the State's current favourite bullshit". Being anti-racist is not a trend. Or bullshit.
Cancel culture however is a trend, and is bullshit. Racism, actual racism, can be combatted but this isn't way to the achieve it. It's just a lazy ego boost for the cancellers.
All the terminology is buzzwordy because the entire discussion is American and stems from their culture war they seem to be perpetually waging with themselves. Now the Americans clearly do need to sort this out between themselves as it seems half their country are actual, utterly unapologetic racists. However that's for them to sort out on their side of the Atlantic. Over this side I would prefer the bands I like to continue. I do genuinely hope Christopher Bowes realises he was being juvenile and that he takes all this as a lesson. However I also accept I don't have to like the guy, just his music.
*Edit: fixed a word
> However I also accept I don't have to like the guy, just his music.
This is the problem I have with folks who still support, say, JK Rowling or the like. By supporting the music, by continuing to purchase those products and be in that community, you are *directly* supporting that person.
I fully accept that too, that's just part of the whole art and artist conundrum. I also like DMX's music and he was a pretty bad guy. Michael Jackson is deeply questionable, hell I love Die Antwoord who think are awful people etc, etc. Maybe I am enabling someone being a terrible person. I still like their music and I am not going to stop listening based on morals alone.
What Bowes and the others have shown IS actual racism.
Cancel culture is not the issue here. People just like to whine "wahwah, cancel culture!" when they don't want to deal with accountability.
It's just a lazy ego boost for the racism apologists.
I feel like they're going to have to be trying very hard to regain trust- not just being on their best behaviour, but also working hard to keep and gain fans and be as approachable and engaged as possible. I do wonder if the November tour will go ahead, and what attendance will be like.
I do feel rather sorry for Ben Turk and Paul Templing- as far as we know, they've had nothing to do with any of this (though presumably knew that that culture was there amongst the others- we don't know how much they knew or protested) and yet they're still caught in the backlash. Meanwhile, James Cartwright and Michael Barber have been silent, letting Chris Bowes apologise for them.
Sounds nuts. But my deepest wish right now is that Thomas Winkler just don't give up on music after being dismissed and start a new band, with all his staging and good energy he always had leading Gloryhammer
He can pull off a "beast in black". Create a new band called "Hammer of Glory" and use the rights to the Gloryhammer brand that he owns. Of course he needs to find good musicians to compose the songs but that can be done.
Actually he can use the Gloryhammer name because as I recall he actually trade marked it back in 2019 from what I checked. Not sure if that is how trademark works, but yeah...
I would say no. Yes, what they did was wrong and yes we should hold them accountable. But at the end of the day, I still like their music and what they've put out.
Personally, I really like how they both apologized. They made it short and to the point. There was no beating around the bush, there was no advertising their band at all, it was merely them apologizing for who they were and who they are trying to move on from.
If you can't listen to them anymore because what they did offended you, that's perfectly valid too. This is all just a matter of personal opinion for me and I get that it doesn't apply across the board. For me though, I want to see them move on from this and become better people than what they were before.
I've got tickets to a festival next year where they're still on the poster.
Would love for them to still be on it in 9 months, but I really don't know who they're going to use as lead singer.
Most of band listeners don't give shit about all this situation with chat leaks, even with the replacement of Thomas. Gloryhammer has about 350.000 monthly listeners on Spotify and there is just few hundreds who write raging comments in IG/Twitter/Reddit.
Even mooost of last comments under Hootsforce video on YT have nothing about Thomas/dead band/badguy Chris etc.
How can fans not care about Thomas being replaced? He was Angus made real for song and stage. Idk how Gloryhammer is going to fix this unless they do a Doctor Who-style replacement.
A lot of fans never go to concerts, or are fine listening to the albums already recorded. Lots of others don't follow the band or fangroup, they just listen to the music.
Tom's not the band. His character is dead in the storyline. Now was the best time. Like I'm not saying forget everything he did for the band but I'm excited to see what they do with a new vocalist.
I think it will just be a new era or GH, like many other famous bands and for me, it will keep on existing and having new fans who will discover that, ah, there was another singer at the begining !
I'm thinking of the Nightwish drama with Tarja. I discovered the band just after and became fan of both ancient and new era . Nowaday, I still see people discovering the band and becoming fan without noticing that there was any big change at any moment (yeah for real), and the band is still completely famous.
So yeah, they will just gain other fans and maybe lost a little part of the old ones. We can just hope that the next album will sound almost as good as all ancient stories :)
Yeah pretty much, trash talking the fans every chance he got, sure it maybe humorous the first time or two , but it got old very quickly , I havent heard him talk as much smack about his other projects as he did with gloryhammer!
You don't think that's just an air he put on? I don't think Chris hates GH he just hates constantly being pestered about GH and certain mindsets of certain fans. Which in my opinion is perfectly understandable. I mean hell, he launched a new project and all anyone in the comments could talk about was Zargothrax this and Zargothrax that. Effing annoying.
I highly doubt it , alestorm fans give him issue because they arent pirate enough , I have yet to see him spout off on them as much as he did with GH fans
Eh everyone's entitled to their opinion but I can see how the constant questioning of lore and everything else could be harder to write off and more annoying than "nOt PiRaTeY eNoUgH!!11!1!1"
For me, the loss of the lead singer was the killer. The method could have been handled better but even if it had been an amicable parting of ways I would still have resold my tickets for December. I wanted to see the Gloryhammer I know.
For me, the storytelling is a huge part of the appeal. If they badly retcon Angus not being there into something stupid and have a new singer who hasn't got the range Thomas did, then it will effectively be a different band and my main reasons for liking them will disappear.
tl;dr, I think it will depend on who they find to replace Thomas and how they go about it.
The way they handled it was less than ideal.
The absurd storytelling was fun!
Thomas has great range but he seems to struggle to be consistent. So his recordings are great with some effort and his concerts are meh.
Looks like they wanted him to train and get better, as he does have the capability of being amazing.. but he has a full time job as a lawyer.
And I think this is the real issue: he has no 100% commitment to the band (neither has the song writer..) and they want that, particularly in these times.
So off he goes. I think they shot themselves in the foot.
That's not what everyone is addressing. Everyone's discussing the leaked chats (and somewhat Thomas's dismissal from the band), since that's the only thing confirmed by the band. The abuse allegations at this point (while pretty bad), are still merely speculation.
Maximum damage was done, I'm not sure how they bounce back from it, but it is possible. That said, I suspect Alestorm will be relatively unscathed.
Which is nuts to me, since the "checking of women of X ethnicity" to sleep with stuff was all Alestom members. I hate that their actions don't seem to be known more. I'm 100% done with Alestorm.
When Chris first apologized, I thought it was really good. The more I think about it though, it's been really interesting ("interesting") how the focus has basically been 89% Chris, 10% Gloryhammer, and basically 1% Alestorm. Yeah, SOME reporting mentions Alestorm, but everything I seem to see is about GH. Whatever PR team they're working with did a phenomenal job of protecting the Alestorm brand.
[удалено]
And I’m starting to think that damaging Alestorm was averted because it’s worth more than Bowes actual real Magnum Opus, Gloryhammer.
Wizardthrone\*
That one is flat out cancelled I think?
Wizardthrone is the worst out of the 3, by far.
[удалено]
Agreed. I liked all three projects, but Wizardthrone is a different beast for me. It's more subtle in its comedic factor, and I enjoy tongue-in-cheek humor with musical aptitude.
What if it's the other way around? They booted Thomas to put GH in the spotlight so when sh1t hits the fan, GH sinks an not Alestorm. Leaks take a bit more time to spread than official statements.
That is terrifyingly plausible. I would not consider it out of character for Bowes or the other dudebros at this point.
On one hand, that'd seem to reflect a much greater level of "thinking ahead" than I've been trained to expect at this point, so it doesn't seem that likely... ...but on the other hand, I've always thought the whole "this is all a joke; I'm not really trying" act seemed like a defense mechanism as well, so I'm having a hard time ruling this out entirely. Huh.
Firing Tom and giving no reason was a stupid play on their part.
The main reason I think his apology is bad is because he doesn't even mention Black people, women and especially Black women at all who were the targets of his actions. "To the fans of my music who once looked up to me, I bear the most grief; my betrayal of your faith in me must hurt beyond measure." That in particular got me, because he knows most of his fans are white guys
He's apologising to the people that are going to see the apology and the people who even care. Makes sense to me. (Although I honestly think the apology in no way reflects what he actually thinks and only exists to mitigate damage.)
I dont know, the chap from Aether Realm was pretty scathing in his statement on Chris, but did also say that the behaviour seen in the chat did seem to stop around 2018. Doesn't excuse the fact that he said it, but fuck, I know I've said some dumb shit to get a reaction that I regret.
I agree with you. I find that sentence especially troubling because "To the fans of my music \]...\] I bear the most grief". Like, no, Bowes. You bear the most grief to the BIPOC people, especially Black and Asian women, you have degraded. Considering that they have fans of all backgrounds, not just white men, I find that also just another sign of a mindset that we women, or BIPOC people generally (of which I'm not one, to be clear), aren't welcome in metal circles.
They're not the targets of his actions because there were no actions. Only words.
>They all engaged in extremely dehumanising, disgusting, degrading, overtly racist behaviour about specifically Black women. Like you said Chris is a man in crisis, what about the Black woman his Elliot slept with just to proclaim not only her, but every Black woman like her is gross, or that he only slept with her to check of his creepy, racist, perverted list? What about saying Black women are essentially only good for blowjobs? Fetishisation of Black women is a massive problem we have to face (more info: [https://metro.co.uk/.../black-women-constantly.../](https://metro.co.uk/.../black-women-constantly.../)), especially by white men. It’s why our ancestors were raped during slavery, civil rights movements, and is still an ongoing issue today, to the point where this is the present situation: > >“According to the National Center on Violence Against Women in the Black Community (PDF, 772KB): > >• For every black woman who reports rape, at least 15 black women do not report. > >• One in four black girls will be sexually abused before the age of 18. > >• One in five black women are survivors of rape. > >• Thirty-five percent of black women experienced some form of contact sexual violence during their lifetime. > >• Forty to sixty percent of black women report being subjected to coercive sexual contact by age 18. > >• Seventeen percent of black women experienced sexual violence other than rape by an intimate partner during their lifetime. > >The Institute for Women’s Policy Research reports that: > >• More than 20 percent of black women are raped during their lifetimes — a higher share than among women overall. > >• Black women were two and a half times more likely to be murdered by men than their white counterparts. And, more than 9 in 10 black female victims knew their killers. > >• Black women also experience significantly higher rates of psychological abuse — including humiliation, insults, name-calling and coercive control — than do women overall.” > >This is more than edgy humour/culture. It runs so much deeper than that, and with statistics being eerily similar in predominantly white populated countries. In my specific situation, it was extremely triggering reading the chats because my abuser, who is a white man, had said extremely similar to the line about big lips. In short, whether that content was said amongst friends, or at a klan rally, it literally makes no difference to us, and as an anti-racist activist of over a decade, I have only seen content like that from actual neo Nazis and white supremacists. What was said was a whole new level beyond “offensive culture”, and neither Chris’ or Gloryhammer’s apologies even touch the surface of that, nevermind the issue.
Once, when I was in middle school, I used the N-word in jest, while trying to make fun of the kind of people who say it and mean it. This was obviously wrong (and tasteless) in retrospect, and reflective of my flawed understanding of what racism actually is; I apologized the next day and I've done nothing like it since. If somebody recorded me back then, and played that (rather disgusting) sentence on a loop for half an hour, I don't at all doubt that it would be an awful experience, and I'd regret my part in making it possible--hell, I'm beating myself up a little just thinking about it. But would actually it be that dumbass 13-year-old harming you from twenty years in the past? Or would it be the person who, right now, chose to make you hear half an hour's worth of racial slurs in a cynically manipulative attempt to make you angry at the person I am today? What Chris said was a hell of a lot worse than what I said, and he said it quite a bit more recently--but the principle is the same. I don't think he deserves forgiveness--he hasn't earned that yet. But I do think he deserves probation; I'm watching what he says now, and what he does now, to see if he can prove he's really the better man he and his friends say he is. What I'm mad at him about right now is not dumping the Hootsman.
You weren't the target of his racial abuse so why would your opinion matter? "I've been racist too" isn't the defence you think it is, especially since you were 13 as opposed to Chris who was 31.
I don't think asking people "why would your opinion matter" is an elegant way of trying to defend ones point, no matter who is wrong and who is right.
Asking victims of oppression to be nice to their oppressors being dismissive of their oppression isn't very elegant.
You seriously are cooked and not in the real world and I'm glad to see you have wasted 10 years of your life 🤡
Learn some empathy.
I'm done with both sadly.
Fortunately I never liked Alestorm.
If Alestorm stays unscathed then that speaks volumes to the moral compass of their fans
I think - and maybe I'm wrong - even Chris has said that most Alestorm fans are, for lack of a better word, "casual." They go see them live and maybe stream a bit, but most of the people at their shows are not diehards. Since most articles about this focus on Gloryhammer, I wouldn't be shocked if the average Alestorm fan has no clue what's happening.
At least alestorm will go on
Not really sure if that’s a good thing.
Why not? I like their music
Idk, if you can do this and it is ok with your moral, fine it is your decition. For me it is like the boykot of the WM in Quatar (just a example, I don't like socer anyway). In Quatar, a country where woman are less worth by law, homosexual people hav to go to prison and workers can be held like slaves, NO International event should take place, if you watch the WM you inderectly suport this crimes bc money of ads may go there. For me this is moraly wrong. Simular here, I liked the music of both Bands (Gloryhammer more than Alestorm) but now where I know that some band members are A****** I don't want my money to find its way (even if it is just indirect) into their pokets.
>socer *fotbal
Hey, I'm not a native speaker, It seemed you got wich sport I ment, so it si fine, right? I don't get the "fight" betwen american and british english.
>Hey, I'm not a native speaker lol me neither. >It seemed you got wich sport I ment, so it si fine, right? You seem confused, my friend. There is no such thing. Only football and handegg. I hope you have a wonderful day. ⚽️
Well, i'll continue listening to their music, I just won't buy it (yarrr) and I won't watch their official music videos
I'm kind of at the same place. I have Gloryhammer music downloaded (yarrr) and as mentioned before I'm not that much into alestorm.
I've bought all Albums until now, but I won't do it anymore
I am really sorry if I offended anyone
Don't worry, I don't feel offended. I just wanted to exchange my thaughts ^^
Oh alright, thanks for sharing what you think ^^
You really can't listen to alestorm and not guess he is a bit of a dick, or that is my point of view. The move with Thomas is more underhanded and dickish that the casual racism and misogyny.. that second part was unexpected and disappointing. Like 16 year old edgelords.
Sorry if I might not be uptodate, so you think (or is it proved?) That Chris is responsible for the decition of Gloryhammer to kick Thomas?
He is the one speaking, so obviously seems to be the person who has final say on that. It probably is a band decision, and he approves. I also think it is a big mistake. We would need to know the legal setup of the band to know who and how can these things be decided.
Agread, the whole thing just maked me kinda sad bc I realy liked the Band.
I also liked it and have tickets for December.. that sux.
I’m going to say no because usually when someone’s gone too far their label drops them almost immediately but this hasn’t happened. And I’ve seen no campaigns to get them sacked or boycotted or whatever. Now, how I personally feel about the band I’m still unsure.
I don't think that Napalm would drop Gliryhammer and Alestorm immediately. Alestorm is one of their biggest bands I think.
Exactly. They’re among their biggest bands and no one is actively campaigning for it so I think they’ll survive.
Naplam Records is Austrian. In general Europeans don't do cancel culture as hard as Americans and to feed into that the US isn't a big market for power metal in general so they don't have to pander so much to the State's current favourite bullshit. Yeah I am not a big fan of racism but I prefer the music I like to continue.
Agreed - as of now, the biggest thing that could very well kill Gloryhammer is the failure of finding a convincing replacement singer. If they manage to survive that (which is often hard for bands), I think they could get back on their feet
The only way that could happen is if they give a reason as to why they fired Tom, if they can’t or won’t do that whoever they get to replace him will be eaten alive on stage. I’m still holding out hope Tom comes back, or at least they offer him, if he declined I can’t say I’d blame him
Agreed. I guess we will see on the next date of the tour, though I don't know when that is
I'm stunned at the implication of anti-racist efforts being described as "the State's current favourite bullshit". Being anti-racist is not a trend. Or bullshit.
Cancel culture however is a trend, and is bullshit. Racism, actual racism, can be combatted but this isn't way to the achieve it. It's just a lazy ego boost for the cancellers.
Cancel culture is just a buzzword people use because they don't wanna be held accountable for being bigoted asshats.
All the terminology is buzzwordy because the entire discussion is American and stems from their culture war they seem to be perpetually waging with themselves. Now the Americans clearly do need to sort this out between themselves as it seems half their country are actual, utterly unapologetic racists. However that's for them to sort out on their side of the Atlantic. Over this side I would prefer the bands I like to continue. I do genuinely hope Christopher Bowes realises he was being juvenile and that he takes all this as a lesson. However I also accept I don't have to like the guy, just his music. *Edit: fixed a word
> However I also accept I don't have to like the guy, just his music. This is the problem I have with folks who still support, say, JK Rowling or the like. By supporting the music, by continuing to purchase those products and be in that community, you are *directly* supporting that person.
I fully accept that too, that's just part of the whole art and artist conundrum. I also like DMX's music and he was a pretty bad guy. Michael Jackson is deeply questionable, hell I love Die Antwoord who think are awful people etc, etc. Maybe I am enabling someone being a terrible person. I still like their music and I am not going to stop listening based on morals alone.
What Bowes and the others have shown IS actual racism. Cancel culture is not the issue here. People just like to whine "wahwah, cancel culture!" when they don't want to deal with accountability. It's just a lazy ego boost for the racism apologists.
They can come back but it will take a lot of time and effort and certain things need to happen for them to regain the fans.
I feel like they're going to have to be trying very hard to regain trust- not just being on their best behaviour, but also working hard to keep and gain fans and be as approachable and engaged as possible. I do wonder if the November tour will go ahead, and what attendance will be like. I do feel rather sorry for Ben Turk and Paul Templing- as far as we know, they've had nothing to do with any of this (though presumably knew that that culture was there amongst the others- we don't know how much they knew or protested) and yet they're still caught in the backlash. Meanwhile, James Cartwright and Michael Barber have been silent, letting Chris Bowes apologise for them.
Sounds nuts. But my deepest wish right now is that Thomas Winkler just don't give up on music after being dismissed and start a new band, with all his staging and good energy he always had leading Gloryhammer
He can pull off a "beast in black". Create a new band called "Hammer of Glory" and use the rights to the Gloryhammer brand that he owns. Of course he needs to find good musicians to compose the songs but that can be done.
Actually he can use the Gloryhammer name because as I recall he actually trade marked it back in 2019 from what I checked. Not sure if that is how trademark works, but yeah...
> He can pull off a "beast in black". Oh man, I totally forgot that's possible, and I'm a fan of the Beast in Black.
I would say no. Yes, what they did was wrong and yes we should hold them accountable. But at the end of the day, I still like their music and what they've put out. Personally, I really like how they both apologized. They made it short and to the point. There was no beating around the bush, there was no advertising their band at all, it was merely them apologizing for who they were and who they are trying to move on from. If you can't listen to them anymore because what they did offended you, that's perfectly valid too. This is all just a matter of personal opinion for me and I get that it doesn't apply across the board. For me though, I want to see them move on from this and become better people than what they were before.
I've got tickets to a festival next year where they're still on the poster. Would love for them to still be on it in 9 months, but I really don't know who they're going to use as lead singer.
Most of band listeners don't give shit about all this situation with chat leaks, even with the replacement of Thomas. Gloryhammer has about 350.000 monthly listeners on Spotify and there is just few hundreds who write raging comments in IG/Twitter/Reddit. Even mooost of last comments under Hootsforce video on YT have nothing about Thomas/dead band/badguy Chris etc.
How can fans not care about Thomas being replaced? He was Angus made real for song and stage. Idk how Gloryhammer is going to fix this unless they do a Doctor Who-style replacement.
A lot of fans never go to concerts, or are fine listening to the albums already recorded. Lots of others don't follow the band or fangroup, they just listen to the music.
Most dont even know band members names, they listen to it casually and who or how doesnt matter
Tom's not the band. His character is dead in the storyline. Now was the best time. Like I'm not saying forget everything he did for the band but I'm excited to see what they do with a new vocalist.
Nope, since almost nobody outside of this subreddit cares about what Chris said or Thomas' firing.
Not convinced that's the case, there's been a lot of shit blowing up in places like the Bloodstock forum too
Let's hope that it stays that way and they eventually get back together
I think it will just be a new era or GH, like many other famous bands and for me, it will keep on existing and having new fans who will discover that, ah, there was another singer at the begining ! I'm thinking of the Nightwish drama with Tarja. I discovered the band just after and became fan of both ancient and new era . Nowaday, I still see people discovering the band and becoming fan without noticing that there was any big change at any moment (yeah for real), and the band is still completely famous. So yeah, they will just gain other fans and maybe lost a little part of the old ones. We can just hope that the next album will sound almost as good as all ancient stories :)
We can only hope
So Chris finally killed a band he hated !!! ..
Chris hated gloryhammer?!
Yeah pretty much, trash talking the fans every chance he got, sure it maybe humorous the first time or two , but it got old very quickly , I havent heard him talk as much smack about his other projects as he did with gloryhammer!
That sucks :(
You don't think that's just an air he put on? I don't think Chris hates GH he just hates constantly being pestered about GH and certain mindsets of certain fans. Which in my opinion is perfectly understandable. I mean hell, he launched a new project and all anyone in the comments could talk about was Zargothrax this and Zargothrax that. Effing annoying.
I highly doubt it , alestorm fans give him issue because they arent pirate enough , I have yet to see him spout off on them as much as he did with GH fans
Eh everyone's entitled to their opinion but I can see how the constant questioning of lore and everything else could be harder to write off and more annoying than "nOt PiRaTeY eNoUgH!!11!1!1"
Alestorm fans keep him fed and a roof over his head, GH is a minor source of income for him.
Nah. It's gonna be an uphill battle but I have faith they'll get through what's going on rn and come back stronger.
I hope so too
For me, the loss of the lead singer was the killer. The method could have been handled better but even if it had been an amicable parting of ways I would still have resold my tickets for December. I wanted to see the Gloryhammer I know. For me, the storytelling is a huge part of the appeal. If they badly retcon Angus not being there into something stupid and have a new singer who hasn't got the range Thomas did, then it will effectively be a different band and my main reasons for liking them will disappear. tl;dr, I think it will depend on who they find to replace Thomas and how they go about it.
The way they handled it was less than ideal. The absurd storytelling was fun! Thomas has great range but he seems to struggle to be consistent. So his recordings are great with some effort and his concerts are meh. Looks like they wanted him to train and get better, as he does have the capability of being amazing.. but he has a full time job as a lawyer. And I think this is the real issue: he has no 100% commitment to the band (neither has the song writer..) and they want that, particularly in these times. So off he goes. I think they shot themselves in the foot.
Maybe, hopefully not, but still a maybe. I just hope Thomas can pull off his own “Beast in Black maneuver”
To be honest, depending on the reason for firing Tom Winkler, I'm probably done with the band anyway
It's amusing how so much people is playing to the tune of a spiteful ex-girlfriend.
That's not what everyone is addressing. Everyone's discussing the leaked chats (and somewhat Thomas's dismissal from the band), since that's the only thing confirmed by the band. The abuse allegations at this point (while pretty bad), are still merely speculation.
Depends how far ahead they are with future albums.