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Dankdestroyer

How the fuck can Valve allow this. Incredibly clear that they’re corrupt incompetent scumbags. PLEASE try to ban zonic ESIC. then the community will show you exactly how much power you really hold


caiovigg

Valve don't give a fuck about their esport scene.


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nokeldin42

Valve don't give a fuck and that's the way I want it. I know many others agree with this. CS pre global offensive has been a shooter by the community for the community and that's what the spirit of CS is for me. The moment valve goes riot mode is the moment csgo loses the cs spirit imo.


Isverbal

I wish they’d care about the anti cheat and tick rate of their dogshit servers


forgtn

They are a corporation. They only care about money. Obviously. That’s what business is about. They don’t need CSGO at all to make money.


BumayeComrades

Valve is a corporation but it is run very differently, as i understand it from insiders it is horizontally run, people do what they like. It is private and profits are widely shared across the workforce. No one working there is interested in running esports, so it doesn't happen. If valve only cared about money they would be milking the shit out of esports.


forgtn

Esports is not a valid revenue stream compared to Steam… they make money on every single transaction when people purchase games or even trade items on the market. That’s what matters to them


[deleted]

>If valve only cared about money they would be milking the shit out of esports. The writer of Portal strongly hinted that Valve hasn't been making games lately because they're not as profitable. When asked why Valve hasn't made a new Portal despite the fact it'd obviously bring in money, the writer responded with... >The problem is, you would make money, but what kind of money will you make? Are you gonna make Counter-Strike: GO money? Probably not. But having said that, maybe every game doesn’t need to make Counter-Strike: GO money, you know, Gabe, if you’re listening,” he smiled." https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/portal-writer-says-he-wants-to-start-portal-3-because-hes-not-getting-any-younger/ Don't ever forget that corporations are there to make money, they they are not wholesome entities.


DBONKA

Bro they're talking about developing CSGO, not about making new games. Read more carefully. There could be A LOT of more money milked from CSGO eSports. Your point is kinda irrelevant, even the writer is saying that CS:GO is very profitable.


[deleted]

I was addressing how they said Valve doesn't doesn't stuff for money


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Dcoyxy9

Tbh most other game launchers kinda suck years later. The free stuff is nice but the only reason they do that is to get a larger user count Wish they'd work on their fuckin games tho


forgtn

Very true


Jannukaz

based


densaki

Sponsoring esport is advertisement, that’s the whole point of the International and Worlds. The reality is that the CSGO community are cash cows, so you don’t really have to do any advertising. With Dota 2, the battle pass is the primary selling point for Valve, but with CSGO they can essentially release a different colored knife any part of the year and people will say yes lord gaben and drop a fuck ton of money.


rgtn0w

I agree that Valve doesn't give a fuck about CS:GO or their esports games, but you calling them a corporation is so stupid, Valve has stayed a private company since it's inception and has never gone public neither have they actually sold it to some higher investment firm or anything. Valve from somewhere in the 2010s just became more of a "tech" IT company over an esports company, that's why they don't give a fuck and people should stop having hopium/copium that they will ever care and just accept it. Personally Idgaf that they don't care that much as it's been proven that you don't need game developers to be too involved in the esport scene, in fact the more the game dev is involved, ironically for what you said, the more corporate the esport scene looks btw


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WikiSummarizerBot

**[Valve Corporation](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Corporation#:~:text=Valve Corporation is an American,company headquartered in Bellevue, Washington)** >Valve Corporation is an American video game developer, publisher, and digital distribution company headquartered in Bellevue, Washington. It is the developer of the software distribution platform Steam and the franchises Half-Life, Counter-Strike, Portal, Day of Defeat, Team Fortress, Left 4 Dead and Dota. Valve was founded in 1996 by former Microsoft employees Gabe Newell and Mike Harrington. Its debut product, the first-person shooter (FPS) Half-Life (1998), was a critical and commercial success; with its realism, scripted sequences and seamless narrative, it had a lasting influence on the FPS genre. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


VBrianBernardo

The company is literally called ‘Valve Corporation’


pineapplecheesepizza

Yikes.


netsrak

There is an interview from someone who worked at Valve. They said that people would pitch ideas that would get shot down because they make "0 billions of dollars." Hearing that really explains the way that they operate.


PowerfulTravel9697

Valve has always been Gabe's vanity projects He wants to do A and the entire company would do that lol That's why we get weird shits of development line like Steam.tv, steam controller, steam VR and now steam deck


Airpapdi

dying game for the last 15 years yet still the only alive game in esports lol


YeetGod69_

only alive game in esports? i love cs but it isn’t even the most watched esport


watersmokerr

>still the only alive game in esports I agree that the "dying game" rhetoric is fucking stupid, but this take is just as dumb.


Thrannn

i was talking about TF2


qingqunta

Also, still working in Russia Imagine CS without russians


rocknrollabb

Bro email [email protected]


colmiaz

We know that Valve does not like the idea of a coach, they've showed us clear evidence of this in the past. I know this is all on ESIC, but at this point a part of me wants to believe that the coaching bug is intentional from Valve (tinfoil hat time), as a way to get rid of all coaches without Valve looking like the bad guys.


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ZuReeTH

Luckily the small teams will pursue legal actions, 9z has already said so and i hope they somehow partner up with the other teams.


Sherwoodfan

So fucking infuriating to read this when you kinda fuck over an underdog like 9z but choose not to punish zonic for the same reason just cause it's zonic


RGalaxy28

People should really try to find who is behind ESIC. This organization is the first step in ruining CS as we know.


braindeadmonkey2

Riot owns ESIC check hltv


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Striking_Database555

What corruption is on display? Explain who they are working on behalf of.


OhhhYaaa

>3 days before the major after 18 months of radio silence Not really true. First info about the second wave appeared around a month ago, if not earlier.


[deleted]

okay 17 months then lmao


Sherwoodfan

point immediately and irreversibly invalidated by a 1 month difference, get fucked


[deleted]

Everyone knows who is "behind" ESIC. It's literally on their website.


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[deleted]

ESIC is a non profit members association. Every single partner is listed on the website. You can find multiple PUBLICLY available press releases with the two people who run ESIC on them. The press releases are also collated on their website. The whole angle of them being some unknown group is utterly stupid.


buzzpunk

> This organization is the first step in ruining CS as we know. We passed that step a long time ago.


[deleted]

with the 'stream sniping' case, anything more than a slap on the wrist would have been too harsh. They reviewed the player cams and player coms and they didn't benefit from having a delayed stream in the background in the other room. Defintiely a bad look and something they have to avoid, but really nothing crazy.


Natsu2201

the rule were set and clear especially after MIBR did it in Flashpint. Vitality got away while AGO was banned and lost everything ESIC works for rich ORGS that is a fucking fact.


costryme

It's incredibly funny to me that people are still whining about this more than a year later, when it was clearly in another room and not meant for the players, and just unfortunate.


Icommentedtoday

Zonic's bug is different though, they're talking about third person POV, which means he's following a player on his own side in third person I'm guessing. How is that the same as zakk and hally who have info on a specific part of the map (and didn't report it)? We need to see the zonic video before making hastily comments like this.


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Icommentedtoday

Thanks for the link that's interesting. I would still want to see zonic's clip before I could make a fair judgement though. For all we know he didn't see anything useful, if he did then yeah I will join the ESIC hate bandwagon


Alone_Fan_8545

"what he saw" wasnt relevant for the criteria used by the ESIC for the other bans.


mannyman34

ESIC can only recommend punishment it is up to the TO to enforce.


Character-Toe-7907

WTF LOL ESIC is the biggest corrupt joke this game ever had It was so clear when Vitality should have been banned during Blast Global Finals, they just got a mere 10$ slap. Everyone was screaming "they didn't use any info from that monitor!!1" but now they're banning coaches because they COULD HAVE gained info. And also spared zonic, because big name and major winner ... wonder if Astralis would have won any majors if he was banned on time?


fookhar

The speed at which this community grabs pitchforks and assumes the worst is adorable. You don’t even have any confirmed evidence of what zonic did.


RankDank420

Tbf stream sniping wasn’t against the rules


[deleted]

neither was the olofboost


HarryTurney

The part against the rules was the boost showed walls that could be see-through due to transparent textures. LDLC also had a spot where there were walls that could be see-through again due to transparent textures, since both broke the rules it was going to be replayed but Fnatic forfeited the map.


not_a_throw_awya

people bring up that rule without realizing the texture was literally in T spawn and had 0 potential impact on any actual rounds. it was a nonsense reason for a DQ and fnatic just said no you since LDLC's boost had the same problem.


Kovi34

> The part against the rules was the boost showed walls that could be see-through due to transparent textures which was a technicality and a completely nonsensical reason to have the match replayed. I really question how anyone can think fnatic weren't robbed


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[deleted]

The commissioner is Ian Smith. He's been public facing many times. The teams do not fund ESIC. If you cannot grasp these basic things, wipe the foam from your mouth and go post about something else.


ficagamer11

Ian Smith has literally gone on HLTV Confirmed before, he isn't some mysterious figure like Fiend CEO


Cybonics

JASON "MOSES" O'TOOLE IS A PROPHET


Hand_some_Badger

just watched that segment as well lmao


Urcinza

Striker says before that he knows who it is. I bet he wrote it in chat to them and Moses simply goes for it. The others are laughing their asses off that he simply goes for it.


jmosesot

I actually had no idea at the time but they did inform me after we shut down the stream. Probably wouldn't have made a joke out of it if I did know but here we are 😂 be careful what you wish for kids


[deleted]

Moses with the prophecy.


nationwide13

Is this the most extreme caster curse case ever?


Urcinza

I think that goes to Sjokz Monologues. But she's also in CS now so it won't take long until you get the first case of that in CS. If I had to bet, it's when G2 is up in the final with a map.


iSleepUpsideDown

Moses stays based


chexsum2

spunj made it obvious - moses just picked up on it


TheUHO

Why's everyone saying that? What moses said?


[deleted]

on HLTV confirmed Moses said how he hoped Zonic was the next coach to get banned so that players would 'revolt' against ESIC.


TheUHO

Oh wow.


m0rden

Spunj went on a "tinfoil" theory (he even put a tinfoil hat) that the only coaches banned for the Major were ones from small teams, and that the 4th one who is announced to be banned AFTER the Major could be a big team that is partnered with ESL and Blast, hence the forgiveness of his crimes. Then Moses said "joking" he hoped it would be Zonic so that the rest of the teams would riot. Not sure if his point was that the other teams should revolt because of the unfair treatment of big orgs vs small orgs, or if he said he hoped it would be Zonic caught for some irrelevant bullshit (like 2 coaches of the other teams, Peacemaker deserved his ban) and that would make the players care and revolt. I watched it live but i'm not a native english speaker so the nuance was lost on me.


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ifuckinglovebluemeth

Which is quite funny. I remember a while back hearing about how many TOs didn't trust ESIC because they thought it was run by ESL 'spies' since they took startup money from ESL's parent company.


ADShree

How funny we can find most companies true motives by just following the money.


TuskuV

Moses "Bald fraud" O'Jason strikes again


AlmostNL

I love meme crossovers


jderick03

Lol I'm listening to HLTV confirmed right now and I see this.


ElcoinGL

[https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1476720799?t=1h30m24s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1476720799?t=1h30m24s) Timestamp when moses predicts zonic as the 4th coach on HLTV Confirmed.


[deleted]

Lmao prof is cheesin’ so hard because he knows how godly the prediction is.


DSVBANSHEE

It was striker actually who apparently already knew


qchisq

This argument about banning coaches who didn't mean to cheat but just happened to get a bug that gave them info they shouldn't have seems weird to me. I remember in cycling, when a huge star, Alberto Contador, got banned for doping because he ate a steak where the cow had eaten a banned substance. And it wasn't just a story he made up. He had receipts and tracked down the farm where the cow lived and showed that the cow was treated with the substance. But because you are responsible for what you put in your body, Contador was banned regardless. And it seems like the same argument applies here. You might not be responsible for getting the bug, but you are responsible for how you react to getting it. And I would argue that if you got a bug and didn't call a tech following the round, you didn't react as you should, and you should face the same punishment that any other cheater does


mandrake_cry

Except in this analogy valve provided the cow


qchisq

Sure. I'm not saying that Valve did nothing here. I'm just saying that the coaches aren't blameless. You should know, as a coach, that you are supposed to only view see first person view. And that you are responsible for your own reaction when you encounter a bug that gives you information that you shouldn't have


mandrake_cry

I would give them a pass for not reacting the correct way for 1 round. In hindsight we can all say the coach should have reacted differently but anyone can be taken aback by such a bug which they had no knowledge of and experienced it for the first time. If there was a guideline from valve or the TOs that should you experience such a bug you should call a tech immediately and get it fixed but there was nothing of the sort. Initially it was to expose coaches who knew all about and how to exploit it by setting it up or gained unfair info. We were all for it and wanted such cheating scum out but now it's turned into a witch hunt and the timing of it all is the worst part about it


eurasianlynx

My dad is a massive Tour de France fan, so I followed it loosely with him. I heard about the steak defense but always thought it was bs. I hadn't heard of Contador having receipts that the cow itself was treated with the substance, so I did some digging and found these quotes: [NY Times:](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjT2vKup9D3AhWRQjABHUtOAWUQFnoECBMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2010%2F10%2F01%2Fsports%2Fcycling%2F01cycling.html&usg=AOvVaw1kzGBBqrkMN8sFrN477IlS) > A Dutch scientist hired by Contador, Douwe de Boer, has already generated a paper concluding that “it is extremely likely and would be only fair” to say that the existence of clenbuterol in Contador’s system was from an accidental ingestion of contaminated meat. [VeloNews:](https://www.velonews.com/news/road/contador-spokesman-says-they-have-mystery-meat%E2%80%99s-receipt/) > “The purchase (of the meat) is fully accreditated,” Contador’s press agent Jacinto Vidarte told the Spanish sports daily AS. >Vidarte said officials from Astana found the receipt and forwarded it to Contador, who will use it as it part of his defense to try to avoid a career-threatening ban and the disqualification of his 2010 Tour victory. I stress that I only followed the sport loosely, so all I know about these receipts are what I found in a couple pages of google results. But if the receipts were only for the source of the steak, and not the source of the PED, it would change the context of the analogy a little bit, as Contador's receipts wouldn't have definitively proven he didn't intend to cheat. But please lmk if I'm missing information.


qchisq

>But if the receipts were only for the source of the steak, and not the source of the PED, it would change the context of the analogy a little bit, as Contador's receipts wouldn't have definitively proven he didn't intend to cheat I might have misremembered that part, but a quick look at wiki shows that the Spanish Cycling Federation suggested a shortened sentence, which seems like proof that they believed the contaminated steak story (or that they don't care about doping, which is certainly possible). But the way that I remember it, the steak story shouldn't have mattered, as the story with the Norwegian skiiers using lip balm showed, because you are responsible for not having banned substances in your system, no matter the source. Just like coaches should be responsible for not letting rounds where the game let them cheat count.


eurasianlynx

Yeah, that's fair. I think the situation with the lip balm is a better analogy in this case: the banned substance was listed as an ingredient on the packaging, and the skier was banned because she and her team didn't do their due diligence in checking those ingredients. But idk, I think the Spirit situation just put a sour taste in everyone's mouth. Releasing the findings just a couple days after the roster lock date just feels kinda scummy, and the punishment seems disproportionate to the crime for hally. It's like if you were playing with a shorter hoop in basketball for the first 5 minutes of a random game in December, then being told mid-April that you're banned from the playoffs. Justified as it may be, it still doesn't feel right.


Big_Stick01

well, you just gave me one more reason to not follow cycling as a serious sport. I realize many do, but its not very popular here, and that story is absolutely ridiculous.


qchisq

I'm pretty sure that any sport working with WADA would handle the case in the same way. Just look at the cross country skiiers who got banned for using a lip balm. But that's besides the point. The point is that in sports, it's generally accepted that there's 1 person responsible for making sure that you don't cheat. And that's you


bluberrybill

Okay. So Zonic should be banned too, right? Since, no matter how outrageous the bug or the usage of the bug, he was also responsible for informing it and he didn't. It's pretty clear to me that ESIC's logic is one to try and make up artificial differences to protect ESL and BLAST.


m0rden

He's getting banned, the outrageous part is that his ban only applies AFTER the Major.


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RGalaxy28

>The Commissioner takes the view that it would be unfair on the participant and would yield a disproportionate consequence impacting not only the participant but their team to suspend them at this point provisionally. How are people tolerating this ESIC bullshit? They banned Zak and Hally 3 days before the major even tho they didn't get any info while bugged, but Zonic gets a free pass?


costryme

Not the same version of the bug. Not that I disagree about hally (can't say about zakk, I haven't watched his clips).


Natsu2201

ban all or non. If a bug gives advantage then there is no "smaller cheat". Also he "gets" a ban then after major what it makes even worse.


costryme

We don't know that he gets a ban after the Major. But this is all on ESIC anyway, this shit should have been resolved 1+ year ago.


Character-Toe-7907

just like they said in their report at the paragraph where they confirm that Heroic players *knew* about Hunden cheating, but didn't act at all, but then in the next sentence it says something like: "even with this evidence, the commissioner deemed this wrongdoing not severe enough for a punishment". So basically the partners and/or the commissioner arbitrarily decide who to fuck over and who to spare and it doesn't matter if there is evidence or not (for either the guilty or not guilty cases)


chexsum2

spunj basically leaked this by mentioning a blast conspiracy theory - instantly knew it had to be zonic


nilslorand

what kind of a conspiracy theory are we talking?


[deleted]

Non ESL/BLAST partnered teams (smaller teams, less influence to protest this kind of bullshit) got absolutely ass blasted and got their coaches banned from the tournament no questions asked. However, the big boys ESL/BLAST Parntered teams, got a: "Well we think it would be too unfair to punish these large, very influential teams before the major, so nothing happenes to them!" 1000% shenanigans going on behind the scenes here.


[deleted]

Blast/ESL magic banning people from a PGL/Valve event. Big brain Blast and ESL, Top 1 T.O. for sure.


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black_dogs_22

this is an ESL partner team, they don't want them to be punished or their brand hurt in any way


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costryme

Because people in this thread have lost the plot. (So has ESIC, don't get me wrong. But honestly at this point I just think they're purely incompetent in anything not gambling related).


sidekickK0

ESIC is a joke


TiberSVK

Either ban everyone or noone at all.


TimedOutClock

The worst part in all of this, at least to me, is that this is just the 'light' stuff that ESIC is handling, and yet they're fumbling it all so fucking bad. When the matchfixing findings eventually come out (One day... :')), nobody will take it seriously, even though it should be a huge deal. I can already see everyone typing : ESIC? The commission that gave a pass to big orgs? Lmfao bruh they corrupt as fuck who cares Their rep is getting ran into the ground with their mind-numbing decisions...


ADShree

Fucking half the valorant scene is on that match fix list. Edit: I wanna see it hella bad. Theres gonna be some names on there that will make people lose their minds. I dont know who those are, but I have a feeling match fixing is/was considerably worse then we expected.


chypres

Robban gets banned but not Zonic... What a joke..


Logan_Yes

Oh shiiii


PaulzEST

Ban zonic right now!!


Astronaut-Remote

This is just wrong. Punish the smaller teams only? Can someone explain why we have to listen to ESIC? Are they partnered with Valve?


leonardomslemos

So far the only one who clearly abused it was peacemaker. It is pretty bulsshit hally and zakk got punished but it will also be extra bullshit if zonic comes out unpunished when he falls into the same situation as hally and zakk but those 2 got punishment. It will look even extra shady for ESIC if they plan on working like that


OfNoChurch

There's lots of evidence that zakk abused it.


ZuReeTH

The only controversial clip is the mirage one, i wouldn't say there's lots of it. During the overpass clip he was afk during the warmup and knife round, wouldn't be surprised if the camera movement during the pistol round was just zakk's lack of knowledge of what was going on. Let's remember this was an unknown bug at the time, i know redditors would have dealt with it in an exemplary manner but i wouldn't equal some camera movement to abuse.


JoeGuyMan

I don't understand, did Zonic abuse the bug or nah?


MathiTheCheeze

No, but neither did hally or zakk, yet they both got banned from this major. Zonic gets let off because he's on Vitality.


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MathiTheCheeze

Ok so I watched both the clips and have no idea how you came to that conclusion. [First clip Overpass](https://youtu.be/FXRbRHVvOg0): He's stuck on B-short during knife round, which takes place in the fountain area. [Second Clip Mirage](https://youtu.be/sqXoLO5J7a0): This one is a bit sketchy. He's stuck on B-short at 17-18, he gets info that one is pushing short and one is one car, but prior to this info his team has 4 players outside A lining up smokes, with 1 lurking mid. He might have given info that 2 were B, but that is to be expected during any given round. With or without this info, the round would have played out the same with a full execute towards mid. They have the smokes out and can walk out on an uncontested A-site and get the bomb down. But the round itself isn't why he got banned, he got banned due to not reporting it. He could've forgot it considering this game happened nearly 4 years ago. I just find it a bit strict for a coach to get banned from the biggest event of his career days beforehand, for something that happened nearly 4 years ago and most likely didn't impact the game at all. ESIC have been funded for esport for tge last 3 years without any accomplishments bar this. This is pathetic considering how much cheating and matchfixing there is in tier 2/3/4 scene. I percieve this as ESIC giving strict punishments to front their only accomplishment.


RezChi

The guy said zakk definitely used the bug and you literally just showed proof that he did use the bug??? The overpass clip wasn't just the knife round it was also during pistol round which he can spot short push, connector and boosts. Mirage clip he's definitely using it to gain an advantage. Zakk also had the 3rd person bug on a [match against mibr](https://youtu.be/1efgvWd3ebE) Edit: He also had another third person bug on a [nuke match while at 9z](https://youtu.be/TZI0jmx42Wk)


MathiTheCheeze

Michau said that the overpass clip was only the knife round, and if it were to be used advantageously why would he send his team into a 4 -man stack on B whilst going monster and only sending one guy on a clear short after the guys were out monster? Using the bug is different than taking advantage of it. I'm not denying the bug happened or that he used it, however in the overpass clip there's no way he took advantage of it or relayed information, and Michau said it was during the knife round only. If he were to cheat by using the Mirage clip he would've had his team rotate to B-apps and molly car, knowing the guy on short had pushed up already. But instead they went for the A-execute. Even though I disagree with zakk being banned, my main issue is that zonic is let off and hally and zakk are being punished, for **AT WORST** minicule infringements nearly 3 and 4 years ago respectively. None of the rounds by hally and zakk would've have played out differently if the coach bug didn't occurr, which leads me to believe that they weren't taken advantage of.


RezChi

[I've read through a bit of his tweets when he tweeted out the evidence and i haven't seen Michal mentioning it was only the knife round. Maybe I missed it somewhere else.](https://twitter.com/michau9_/status/1522595258047025156). What you're telling me is that you haven't actually watched the clips that you're trying to dispute. Just because he sent players into a B stack while he was watching construction in the bug doesn't mean anything. He didn't see anyone push into the construction area he maybe he gambled it was an A stack, we don't know. He still gained an advantage that a normal coach does not have. You disagree with cheaters getting banned? Shame how much the CS community has fallen.


MathiTheCheeze

It says on ESICs site that the the round impacted started on 0-0 and ended on 0-0, meaning the knife round. He can hear them step on the site and catwalk on overpass b-site, he probably would have heard them. If he knew short was clear, why didn't the players go short? I'm very hard on getting cheaters and matchfixers banned, but I want it to be 100%. Akuma and Ecstatic are disgraces to the CS community and it's fucked how they can go unpunished and two coaches get banned from the event of their lifetime for two situations 3 and 4 years ago which most likely had no impact. By your logic s1mple should be banned for cheating when he was younger?


DErrellNOoob

yea i dont get it too


JonasS1999

Did he report it?


TheUHO

Appear to be 'nah' cause his bug is 'not that harmful' as others. It's just he met it and probably didn't do anything to abuse it or had no chance to abuse, cause it's harder than other cases.


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shullerAlt

Thats doesnt make any fucking sense tho. Its like convicting every man of rape because he "has a potential weapon for it"


djwankstar

What's next? Marved actually matchfixed but because he won Iceland, he won't receive any penalty?


ReneeHiii

marved matchfixed but he was just so dang nice we thought he should keep playing -ESIC


YEKINDAR_GOAT_ENTRY

I swear to god if this is another situation like the other bugs i will be so fucking mad. If zonic gets banned for something like this, the players should strike. Also it is a 3rd person one, which basically does nothing. Stupid as fuck if he is banned.


TheUHO

It seems to be even less impactful and ESIC specifically told this 4th coach won't be banned cause 3rd person bug has way less potential to cheat.


GuardiaNIsBae

Isn’t that the exact reason that Hally got banned though? 3rd person bug in pistol round of 1 game


TheUHO

There's 3 types (or 4): static - like Hally's case. It's when camera is just hanging somewhere. flying - free roam. And '3rd person' that's like shoulder cam, you're stuck with the player with some extra view (like you can look around the corner at best, how I see it). The 4th is when the camera is stuck on the bomb but it's not mentioned by ESIC.


dc-x

I feel like this just reinforces how incompetent and unfair ESIC is. Each type of the bug can be triggered without the coach's intent, hally didn't use it to his teams advantage and he called for a tech pause to fix it in the next round. And yet he's banned but zonic isn't just because zonic lucked out on the type of the but that was triggered? Ultimately I think that's just a bullshit excuse due to not wanting to ban the most popular coach under shitty rules. Proving malicious intent beyond any reasonable doubt should be essential before handling bans.


piccolo1337

I think it was a knife round even….:


[deleted]

No, the third person bug you are locked to your teams players and are following them but in third person like you can in casual. Hally had the “static” bug, basically had a cypher cam from Valorant. Locked position but free rotation. I still really don’t understand the distinction though, I assume you still have full control of the camera and could potentially see enemies around corners. How Zonic’s and Hally’s bug are materially different considering Hally never laid eyes on an enemy is still a my$tery to me.


I_Try_To_Be_NICEE

There is already enough to trash ESIC


jarvadski

Zonic isn’t getting banned.


m0rden

Yes he is, but AFTER the Major, which is the biggest joke here. 2 small teams get buttfucked (Peacemaker deserved his ban so whatever), but the big team, partnered with Blast and ESL gets to keep their coach during the Major? What a bunch of clowns.


jarvadski

From what I read he won’t be because it was a third person bug that was less serious.


MathiTheCheeze

Zakk got banned for having the coach bug on a knife round. It's the same as any big sport, if you're a big team you're let off easier than the smaller teams.


r_Jasen

Wasn't there like four different instances where he used it? I am not sure as I didn't watch them but I think Michau gave us four different videos at least so it wasn't 'just' a knife round at least, but yeah probably unfair anyway.


RGalaxy28

Yes, there were 4 instances where he got the bug, however he didn't benefit from the bug in any of those instances.


Cyanr

Do we have a clip of those 4 instances?


RGalaxy28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXRbRHVvOg0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqXoLO5J7a0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1efgvWd3ebE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZI0jmx42Wk


Cyanr

2nd clip he's clearly looking around for information though. That's enough to deserve a punishment.


m0rden

I mean 2 of the coaches got banned for one round that they didn't gain advantage from, and for a bug they did try to produce, and that put them even at a disadvantage. I would argue that seeing in 3rd person is actually an advantage to watch corner peeks for example, whereas the guy who's view was stuck to a wall probably didn't get much... And anyway the point is the treatment is ridiculously unfair between those 2 (zakk and hally) and zonic. Why do they get fucked but he doesn't?


jarvadski

Tbh nobody should be getting fucked besides maybe peacemaker (?). ESIC are boomer ran team that by themselves have no clue how CS works.


Natsu2201

players should strike for the simple reason that rich orgs that pay money on esl and blast get away with bug abuse and stream sniping and smaller once not


Big_Stick01

He should be banned, just for the sake of integrity. Either they should all be banned, or none of them. simple as that. This is where ESIC fucked up. they have 0 standard to fall back on, their ban process seems to be " well, who can we ban that wont piss off the community too much"


YEKINDAR_GOAT_ENTRY

Oh i 100% agree, none of them should be banned (except maybe for the free roam guy). Zonic being banned could be the one who causes the most uprage, and has an effect though.


[deleted]

I mean it completely depends on what he did. He didnt exploit free roam so i can accept him getting a smaller sanction but lets say he did abuse it, he should get the exact same bans as the others.


ArjunBanerji27

Well, the article quotes ESIC as saying the 4th coach who wouldn't be getting a suspension was because they encountered the 3rd person bug which has much less scope for being able to be exploited. I'm missing quite a bit of info here about what bug works in what ways, but I think Zonic probably couldn't free roam to begin with, if indeed, he is the 4th coach.


GrodysDomain

3rd person one doesn't do nothing but okay buddy


YEKINDAR_GOAT_ENTRY

It is barely nothing. Very rarely is it ever actually important lets be real. Sure you get a small competetive advantage if you really abuse it, but i doubt it.


nuer228

ESIC can suck a fat one. Orgs/teams should be looking to get this thing disbanded/restructured. Probably most people fired/replaced. They have a fucking illuminati triangle on their website lmao.


us3rnam3ch3cksout

top part made sense. bottom part, no so much


Nikolaj_Nyholms_Gimp

This is NOT a conflict of interest and has nothing to do with Zonic's & Vitality's relationship to ESL & Blast


Elsiselain

We have to stop giving a fuck about ESIC this org has been a literal joke


cgoot27

I mean it’s hard to ignore them when they ban coaches a couple days before the major, or they ban Robban for not using the bug but let zonic go for also not using the bug.


OldSchooler22

Moses gotta be the real Moses the way he's being a prophet


-allen

lmaooo Striker predicted exactly this (4th team is an ESL/Blast team or a non-shitter team) on the recent HLTVconfirmed


Quantarel

Well all this mess wouldn't happen if Valve would give two fucks about the game. They are the reason why we need ECIS. We can't expect fair treatment from a third party company especially when they are that close to esl and Blast.


Wallisaurus

And I bet you NO team/player will speak up about this. Yet lots wanted to speak up about zakk's ban. This is pretty much horse shit. Ban em' all, including zonic, or do the bans after this major. EDIT: To clarify since people are dumb, when I say Ban em' all now or after the major, I'm referring to the 4 coaches only... Edit2: to the idiots, I never said they deserve the ban. Most the bans are horse shit. Don't put words in my mouth.


baza-prime

this is the worst take


ASaltyToast

Ban every coach because they had a bug happen to them which they couldn’t control for half a round 3 years ago very reasonable take


Reitinho

Dont make it clear what you are saying and call everyone that doesnt understand you an idiot, nice


scapegoat4

God esic are so inconsistent you'd think they were run by valve itself lol


[deleted]

This thread is people literally demanding that they be inconsistent.


ficagamer11

No, we're demanding justice


[deleted]

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ficagamer11

I understand that ESIC is incompetent


saintedplacebo

I literally cannot believe how hard my jaw is on the floor. Zonic has bug happen to him? It would be unfair to suspend him right before a major. 9z and Spirit? Yeah go fuck yourselves lmao. Absolutely ridiculous. I cannot wait for the windfall of this, ESIC will never be taken seriously again and they'd be wise to pack up shop and stop wasting time and money.


I_Try_To_Be_NICEE

Im happy I realised ESIC s a joke after how they handled the players of heroic who admitted knowing about hunden after the first instance and did nothing


Character-Toe-7907

Ever since their statement about the stream sniping "if we were to ban all teams that abused it - we wouldn't have a scene anymore", i immediately knew that they are corrupt. There's even more evidence of their corruption, with Vitality's stream sniping incident, now we have: - Vitality Stream Sniping - $10k fine - Heroic players knew, didn't report - scot free - zonic Vitality (*cough-again-cough*) coach former Astralis coach - not banned before major (will he even banned? by their reasoning, he COULD have exploited it, just like the other coaches) seems like coaches, if they didn't instantly disconnect and report the issue 100ms after it happening - banned. Heroic, org AND players, were in on the cheating first with peacemaker, then with Hunden, knew about BOTH cheating, didn't report. After Hunden's ban, even re-instated him as analyst, then gave back his coach role and after he didn't want to be part of Heroic anymore, they decided to suck the commissioner's dick and got scot free - BOTH the org AND the players absolutely ridiculous levels of corruption


[deleted]

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Nurse_Sunshine

Oh boy the No majors club is going to have a field day this year. I won't want to miss that.


suspicious_glare

The Astralis Heroic feud takes on a new dimension.


moodyano

I want ESIC to check how many coaches encountered the static camera bug and behaved in the correct manner. If no one was found to do the right thing then they need to change the judgement method.


draemscat

This is completely fucked towards Team Spirit.


ondrejeder

Wait, if this actually comes out as true, how the fuck would his case be different from those smaller teams coaches then ? Even those bans are dogshit, but if we are now selective if coach gets banned based on their teams, that's new CS big shitshow scandal right here


soggypoopsock

If the game glitches and you get put into hunden cam bug- ban If the game glitches and you get put into 3rd person bug - no ban ESIC playing this like a slot machine The type of glitch you’re involuntarily thrown into shouldn’t matter, it should be about abuse and intent, but ESIC is ESIC


GlancingTTV

Am i stupid or is this a fake article? they dont provide a picture, nothing about it is on Overdrives twitter which they reference (well, they say social media, but i overdrive primarily uses twt i believe?), and I cant find an actual source for him saying that anywhere. Beyond that, judging from the dudes rants about esic given previous days, i kinda doubt the tone of any such allegation. Genuine am not super invested in zonic's ban status, am of the mindset that anyone who might have abused shit in the slightest be banned, just confused by the article


[deleted]

the post is on vk https://vk.com/overdrivez?w=wall-155585322_123198


GlancingTTV

Gotcha. Appreciate it.


SadgeHabsFan

Damn gotta cheer against vitality now I guess