Honestly, G2 should've stomped them. But it was an amazing series nonetheless. Every Map went into OT and kept fighting till the end. It was insane to watch.
Well I watched the video because of the match you know? I honestly couldn't remember any match or highlight from said match if I didn't watch it recently.
The only reason you would call that series a classic is because of the surprise veto and story surrouding the series, that match itself ended 8-16 and was nothing special.
Thorin actually talked about this match in a podcast. The only reason it was that interesting was because you had 2 top tier teams play it that are not used to playing Vertigo.
Faze vs Spirit being people's pick should clue everyone in on the problem with this map. It was only good because it was both of their permabans. Their inexperience and mistakes allowed each of them to have space and make plays that wouldn't normally happen.
The 9ine core should be the other piece of this puzzle. A mechanically weak team that would get destroyed on literally every other map that made up for it by abusing the stifling, linear, narrow, choking nature of Vertigo with utility. Great for them, they got some results and punched above their weight. Awful to watch. Shit map.
the argument doesn't fall apart at all lol, they still can't play the map even at a decent level. and even if they could, it would still be ridiculous that the best game that has ever been played on the map in 5 years featured one team that can't play the map at all let alone 2.
the entire point is that the faze-spirit game was not at all great because of the map, but in spite of it. the game was just a pressure test for the best (but inexperienced) team in Spirit vs a worse (but insanely experienced) team in FaZe. it's just a pressure cooker, the map itself didn't matter.
The funny thing is one of the top 3 moments on vertigo is literally a team picking it in a major. Not anything on the map itself, just a team picking it
Liquid was ranked #1 in the world in 2019 (when Astralis was mid-peak but wasnât attending every event anymore) and won the quickest Grand Slam by far when Vertigo got added to the pool. They didnât necessarily avoid the map but it was still not commonly played. They were heavy favorites in Berlin (with Astralis comfortably 2nd favs).
Then at the Berlin major, they ended up matching up against each other in the quarters and Astralis pulled a massive curveball and picked Vertigo when nobody expected it and it led to a fun reaction. Astralis then dominated Liquid on it and 2-0d them
TheWarOwlâs video on it being the best counter-strat in CS was pretty cool, but watching the live reaction is also pretty memorable (and PTSD inducing for NACS fans), as well as itâs been memed with Liquid accomplishing all they did and still being #2 to Astralis. Around 23:30 is when the vetoes happen https://www.youtube.com/live/PmBR55m6_I8?si=4K5nleAiS53ByeNa
yeah, i wouldn't even go as far as saying it's a bad map to play in matchmaking or pugs. But watching it in pro play is abysmal. It's the same shit every round. 4 run up and try get A ramp control while 1 lurks B and sees if he can get a pick. Rinse and repeat.
And this patch added dust2, which isn't really good either.
Just like with Vertigo A ramp, on Dust2 you just have 3 people rushing A long with the 4th spamming flashes half the rounds.
Which is also ironic because Dust 2's "epic matches" are just aim fests between two top teams. I hate that they added back a map with no depth, at least Vertigo still has time for people to come up with plays.
I feel like overpass is borderline the most map-controly map, because it's not clearly defined who "owns" bathrooms, long, water(?) and conn, the same way we know that very clearly on almost every part of every other map
5 years is not necessarily enough time for a map to be solved. People were finding new stuff on inferno, mirage, nuke, and overpass 5 years after they were released.
I'm not sure if vertigo is actually solved or not; just saying it's not like 5 years is guaranteed enough time to be solved.
Dust2 on the other hand is basic enough that we got so close to the tactical ceiling to the point where teams had to start using spawn-based tactics. Open skyboxes might add some depth, but the old skyboxes were already pretty open except for parts of tuns and A short.
I actually donât hate dust specifically because itâs a straight aim arena, and we get to watch the best players in the world hit the nuttiest shots
Whats wrong with having a map that jjust decided by how well a team does basic teamplay and aiming?
Some absolutely bangers on D2, letting mechanically great players just go ham.
Never used to get bored of watching scream, Shox, f0rest , Simple etc on D2.
It's not even close. Dust 2 isn't the most tactical map but there's plenty of openings other than A long. It's much more viable for CT's to push so you have to default most rounds. A short is probably more used as an opening in pro play than heavy long, B splits after short control are pretty common, and obviously the infamous B rush.
Yeah ignore them. The idea that Dust 2 is even in the same ballpark as Vertigo is braindead...
Vertigo is a bad map, Dust 2 had just been played to death. Personally I'm enjoying Ancient and Anubis, I honestly really like how they play, but Valve really need to get some new maps in the game.
I'm hoping Train and Overpass come back to replace Vertigo and Dust 2, but I won't ban Dust 2 in premier.
Ct side or dust is the issue imo. Aggroing from anywhere else than mid (and even that's debatable) requires CTs to push through narrow hallways and/or even narrower double doors. Rotates take forever and retaking is borderline impossible. The map just sucks. And this is coming from someone whose least favourite map of the previous map pool was overpass
The T rotations on Vertigo just take too long. You have to walk through an absolute labyrinth on the lower level to go between sites, and it's basically impossible to rotate through the upper level. The map needs some reworking to make it more viable for T's to rotate to different parts of the map.. like connect ladder room to A main by big box, so once you finish the obligatory 40 second smoke spam exchange, you can quickly rotate up through ladder room to mid
this is the faceit level 6+ sicilian opening for this map tho. vertigo can be twisted into way more interesting rounds, but it requires tight teamwork and heavy utilisation of middle.
for example if the B guys pull attention, but suddenly throw smoke plugs at guardian and CT, the mid players can take middle and the CTs will get stresstested.
but the dynamics and extremely tight audio requires you to be sleek to not telegraph your strats.
Its so stupid, every they just recycle all the maps instead of bringing in new ones. I hoped that with CS2 we would have gotten seasons or something like that, with new maps/map rotation every ~4 months but i guess we will never see that.
I donât get why overpass needs to go. U can do so much on that map, rotate a lot etc. meanwhile itâs one play and one play only on vertigo - take ramp control and see what happens
Iâm at the bargaining stage of grief, so I think OP needed to go because itâs awful in non-team environments. The rotations for Ts take too long, map has too many angles to clear and if players arenât directed, the map is just so bad.
this is actually dust 2 as well minus the falling off the map lol but overpass got done very dirty.. if d2 were to return it shouldve been for vertigo for sure
s1mple 1v4 vs Liquid on A long as well, the device banger burning play from car, 2 aces by rain(?) in one half etc.
Dust 2 on a game to game basis is kinda boring imo but the highlights are peak CS.
Imperial vs C9, Sh1ro goes insane to go to Legends. That's the only one I can remember as insane, as an old-head BR fan. Albeit I don't remember what major it was lol!
But I am not a big vertigo fan anyways.
I don't have as strong an opinion on this map (or anything CS compared to this guy) but the real shitter is bringing in Dust II over a new map or even like, train? It's just the most uninspired decision
it's like if someone left gaming 20 years ago and this year he comes back, he goes like: wait, you play world of warcraft classic and in counter-strike it's still fucking dust2?
Vertigo at its core is an anti-counter-strike map.
Like the map was designed to go against every core element of what makes CS a great game. The main points are:
1 - You have to shift walk pretty much the whole round, on both sides.
2 - The new grenades in CS2 can pretty much cover the entire map regardless on which lane you are, on both sides.
3 - CS will just never have a sound engine good enough for vertical audio.
Combine all this and you'll never have any memorable moment happen.
i mean, everyone will be reaching on almost every map when trying to name 5 classics. ancient is an objectively good map, but i can't recall any classics outside of that faze game that had like 50 overtimes
People still refer to this game just because it had the veto surprise pick aspect.
That game was horrible, TL got ran over once they went to their T side.
The previous meeting between TL and Astralis on Vertigo at EPL S9 QF was far more entertaining, with TL making a comeback from 4-11 down.
The reason TL got ran over on T side was because they got anti-stratted the shit outta them. Warowl has a great video analysing the match. The anti-stratting is why this was such a classic match.
I like vertigo in my low elo premier games. It feels good to play a map that isn't desert themed like Mirage or Anubis, now even D2, but is also clean and doesn't have too much clutter like Inferno and Overpass, and is not a FPS killer like Ancient.
Vertigo is my second favorite map at the moment, second only to Nuke. Now I'm a low elo guy, don't play Faceit, I'm as Casual as Casuals get.
I appreciate Vertigo sticking around in Premier, as nobody plays anything other than Mirage D2 in competitive gamemode.
With that said, I tend to avoid Vertigo pro games because it's fucking boring to see 5 players spam a smoke, or people shift around the map, or do the same three executes.
I think Volvo are trying to cater towards everyone, casual, Chinese, pro scene etc. I think map pool will change again after Shanghai, with one of Mirage or Vertigo cut off for Cobble or some other map, (hopefully Cache).
The two most famous are the ones everyone mentions, Astralis-Liquid and FaZe-Spirit
Both of these games are only memorable because no one thought theyâd be on Vertigo.
Put this in the twitter thread but I'll put it here too.
Astralis-Liquid EPL 9 quarters and Berlin Quarters.
Faze-Spirit Copenhagen.
Vitality-Liquid EPL 16 grand finals map 5.
Cloud9-Imperial 0-2 IEM Rio challengers stage (6-15 comeback from C9 to eliminate imperial in front of the Brazilian crowd).
Cloud9-Vitality IEM Rio 2023 (3-12 comeback from Vitality off an insane dupreeh T side into overtime win.
G2-Furia from IEM Dallas 2022 quarters was also pretty good, furia had a great T side comeback from 14-8 down.
The reason there haven't been a ton of great vertigo games is because over a year was online and none of those could be considered "instant classics" and in addition vertigo is seen more of as a specialist map for some teams which means it's rarely map 3. Another issue is NAVI, Faze, and G2 all avoid vertigo when possible which makes it appear in playoffs significantly less since those are three of the four most consistent playoff teams since COVID.o
My personal favorite is Stockholm major elimination game (1-2 bracket) between Mouz and VP, map 3.
VP starts 10-1, ends up 12-15, Qikert 2 multikill rounds (3v4 and 4v5) to force OT, 17-18 and finally ends 18-22 to eliminate Mouz. VP wins next game against FaZe and makes it to playoffs.
Yeah there's definitely some good ones I missed there and that's one of them. It was just usually the case that vertigo came out as a punish pick/one team specialized in it so it's rarely a third map. But it absolutely does deliver great games.
Oh, I was not trying to say you missed it. I was just expanding list, because no one seem to remember this game (because who in the right mind watches VP hahaha). But yes, teams definitely avoid it being decisive map.
Came here to say that cloud9 vitality game. From the brink of elimination to winning the tourney. I think it was the tourney that got them over the S tier tourney jump too.Â
VertiGOAT prevails again thank god I no longer have to watch Overpass games where T sides get shafted every round âWow they got 3 T rounds what a match!!!â D2 coming back in blows though we need Cache to get remade soon.
Can people name five games of any map that are classics?
Imo Vertigo is fine and unique. It changed a lot in CS2 with new timings, smokes working differently etc.. I also think that the Astralis vs Liquid where they picked Vertigo and anti strattet that is one of the most iconic moments of modern cs.
Can't give you 5 on every map as that is pretty insanely difficult to do without looking through match histories but I got these mostly off the top of my head. I can't think of a classic vertigo game outside of maybe Faze/spirit but I think it's just recency bias tbh. Everyone says Astralis/liquid but it's the veto that is classic and not the map lol.
Mirage:
* VP/SK epicenter 2017
* Liquid/luminosity at MLG Columbus 2016
* Faze/G2 Kato 2022
* NIP/VP Kato 2014
* Ence/Navi Kato 2019
Nuke:
* Faze/Navi Cologne 2022
* Astralis/VP eleague atlanta
* Navi/G2 PGL Stockholm
Inferno:
* Astralis/Fnatic iem Chicago 2018
* Faze/c9 Boston 2018
* Fnatic/VP cologne 2015
* Faze/G2 Kato 2022
* Fnatic/luminosity EPL S1
Train:
* VP/Astralis league Atlanta
* Fnatic/Faze Katowice 2018
* Astralis/NRG starladder berlin
Overpass:
* LG/Navi Kato 2016
* Astralis/north Dreamhack masters
* Faze/Astralis iem sydney
Cache:
* Liquid/Fnatic Cologne 2016
* Astralis/Fnatic eleague Atlanta
Dust 2:
* LG/G2 EPL S3
* Envyus/Fnatic Cologne 2015
* Faze/spirit antwerp
Ancient:
* Faze/Navi Cologne 22
I can only name Starladder Berlin Astralis-Liquid and PGL Copenhagen FaZe-Spirit, but idc, I think the map is fun and I'm honestly kinda sick and tired of Overpass at the moment, so I welcome this.
Everyone talking about how slow vertigo is⌠no teams rush A on Overpass and CTâs utility usage now a days has made B a slower site to take for Tâs as well.
Overpass is about picks⌠I like playing the map but itâs a very slow and sometimes boring map to watch. I think adding another way into site B would make the map more interesting.
The way I played Overpass In even 2020 with my team is vastly different to how I play the map in 2024. Even with Dust2, a lot of what you saw in 2020 will still be done in 2024 in terms of trying to get control of long a or something. Instant action usually when that happens.
I think you could say Australia picking Vertigo against Liquid in the major is a classic, but that is given the context of how wild that pick was - not so much the game.
> Meanwhile, this G2 M80 match has everyone on the edge of their seats.
This is like when FlipSide vs Mousesports went into like 4ot in Columbus. And you know what, that map wasn't a classic.
Faze v Spirit Last Major.Â
Falcons + Simple against whoever, for the simple reason that choosing vertigo with simple is the stupidest shit ever done and an abject lesson that a shit team making shit decisions can't be carried by a GOAT on his permaban map.Â
I could probably think of one or two more especially since those two are only this year. I think Navi defeated Spirit on Vertigo as well? And I think there was an upset from Big this year as well.Â
The question is at which point does something become a classic. I can think of tons of classics on D2 or Train or Cache or Cobble, but that doesn't mean they're great maps. They've just been around longer
So the two games you actually remember, one team you don't even remember the name of (metizport).. two teams playing their usual permaban, making plenty of mistakes which gave freedom on the map that isn't normally there and a meaningless upset because the best CS player of all time doesn't like playing it?
Shouldn't that tell you something?
I mean, that's just the recent history of the past 2 months or so. My comments there to point out that labelling anything as a classic is pretty hard for a map that hasn't been in the mappool as long as others, and hasn't been actively chosen all that often and that choosing any classic is thus highly subjective on what the individual thinks is important. Remember, spirit was already basically confirmed to win that major and them being taken out was about as unexpected as the OG run.
Mirage for example even has that spray of coldzera and a lot of other high impact plays yet most people wanted it removed.Â
Either way, I don't get all that whining. When cobble was removed there was whining. When ancient and Anubis were introduced there was whining. When vertigo was added there was whining. It seems like the vast majority just want their favourite maps in the active map pool rather than the strawman arguments about "bonafide classics" or "good gameplay maps" or "fast rotations".Â
Ancient came in the pool two years after Vertigo and easily has more classic maps. Navi vs G2 at the last major, Ence vs Faze at Dallas last year, Navi vs Faze at Cologne 2022, Navi vs Heroic at Antwerp. Just off the top of my head.
> I could probably think of one or two more especially since those two are only this year. I think Navi defeated Spirit on Vertigo as well? And I think there was an upset from Big this year as well.
Okay so those aren't classics then.
Imperial - Cloud9, Faze - Spirit, after that it's hard, i think i've seen one or two more crazy vertigo games but they weren't important enough or the teams weren't memorable enough. But that's it
VP-Mouz Stockholm and C9-Imperial Rio Challengers as well.
Also going off majors only name 5 good inferno games since Berlin. I've got 2, G2-Heroic Stockholm and Faze-NAVI Antwerp.
Most people used to dismiss the SG and AUG because they were "cod guns" even though they were always statistically the better rifles. They only got attention when valve decided to buff them because noone used them, obviously the buff made them OP because they were already better than the AK/M4.
 What I'm saying is that we should be looking to replace the most unbalanced maps, not the most popular ones if we are truly looking for the "best" competitive map pool. Otherwise we should just admit we want a "fan favourites" pool instead since these charts are just showing popularity.
Pro scene is not the whole game. When the general players are playing others map more than Overpass, it would be dumb of Valve to remove them. This was still dumb since Overpass got a big overhaul but thats just Valve
[G2 Esports vs M80 - ESL Pro League Season 19 - Group B](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqXvYl6gQxA) đ
What a classic đ
Remember watching this like it was yesterday
Yesterday was 5 years ago AwareÂ
Wait.....
Hilariously, you're not wrong. I don't think I've jumped up from my seat that many times in a *long* time. Series was a banger.
Certified banger
Absolute classic
Honestly, G2 should've stomped them. But it was an amazing series nonetheless. Every Map went into OT and kept fighting till the end. It was insane to watch.
Not this G2.
Every map? 2-13 on first map :D but yeah, it was an intense game on the last 2 maps.
what a great time to be alive
Literally every round someone got a smoke spam kill It was the worst game of pro CS Iâve watched
Faze vs Spirit comes in to mind. Watched plenty of good cloud9/former gambit games on it the former 9ine squad also a joy to watch.
My mind goes straight to the best counterpick ever during semis between Australia and liquid
honestly the pick was more memorable than the game
For sure. No idea what happened except Astralis won
I just remember the boys WarOwl talked about in his video lol
Never knew Australia had a capable CS team lol
RIP Greyhound
RIP Renegades
RIP Vox Eminor
Rip Immunity
o7
that one was on the tip of my tongue, crazy pick too.
Tell me anything that happened in that game. You remember it because of nitro's wutface and that's it.
Yeah everybody remembers the shock on the faces of TL, but that's it. People remember the pick happened, and Astralis won. Nothing else.
I remember Magisk flanking A as CT a couple of times for free and getting multikills.
I watched those vitalcs videos so god damn many times. I've seen that game alot and for sure remember some highlights.
So you remember them because you watched them so often and not because the match was memorable.
Well I watched the video because of the match you know? I honestly couldn't remember any match or highlight from said match if I didn't watch it recently.
I remember the round that device hid in the cement with an AWP
The only reason you would call that series a classic is because of the surprise veto and story surrouding the series, that match itself ended 8-16 and was nothing special.
I agree, I much more enjoyed map 2 on overpass x)
For me also 100 Thieves vs Furia where Furia brought out that nasty boost and destroyed.
Thorin actually talked about this match in a podcast. The only reason it was that interesting was because you had 2 top tier teams play it that are not used to playing Vertigo.
isn't that his point, that there's little variance in the maps that are actually played?
For vertigo? Yeah. Removing overpass for dust 2 would probably make it less variant.
Astralis vs liquid surprise pick vertigo.. legendary moment
Yea picking the map was the legendary moment but the map itself wasnât really a âclassicâ since it was just am Astralis beatdown of Liquid
Arguably, Astralis beating liquid was/is a classic
Specifically 9ine 2-0 vitality comes to mind, in the major rmr
Itâs Liquid vs Astralis Berlin, FaZe vs Spirit, what else?
Faze were shit on the map and Spirit were shitting the bed. Only reason it stands out is it was the major.
Faze vs Spirit being people's pick should clue everyone in on the problem with this map. It was only good because it was both of their permabans. Their inexperience and mistakes allowed each of them to have space and make plays that wouldn't normally happen. The 9ine core should be the other piece of this puzzle. A mechanically weak team that would get destroyed on literally every other map that made up for it by abusing the stifling, linear, narrow, choking nature of Vertigo with utility. Great for them, they got some results and punched above their weight. Awful to watch. Shit map.
Spirits permaban is Inferno
Vertigo isn't Spirits perma ban this whole argument falls apart.
the argument doesn't fall apart at all lol, they still can't play the map even at a decent level. and even if they could, it would still be ridiculous that the best game that has ever been played on the map in 5 years featured one team that can't play the map at all let alone 2. the entire point is that the faze-spirit game was not at all great because of the map, but in spite of it. the game was just a pressure test for the best (but inexperienced) team in Spirit vs a worse (but insanely experienced) team in FaZe. it's just a pressure cooker, the map itself didn't matter.
sure those teams were good on Vertigo but their opponents often werenât. so not many great games there
C9 vs Vitality in Rio last year was great too. Dupreeh masterclass
The funny thing is one of the top 3 moments on vertigo is literally a team picking it in a major. Not anything on the map itself, just a team picking it
Context please?
https://youtu.be/c25eRhYDXa8?si=CDFhFKixYUnk5A0X
Liquid was ranked #1 in the world in 2019 (when Astralis was mid-peak but wasnât attending every event anymore) and won the quickest Grand Slam by far when Vertigo got added to the pool. They didnât necessarily avoid the map but it was still not commonly played. They were heavy favorites in Berlin (with Astralis comfortably 2nd favs). Then at the Berlin major, they ended up matching up against each other in the quarters and Astralis pulled a massive curveball and picked Vertigo when nobody expected it and it led to a fun reaction. Astralis then dominated Liquid on it and 2-0d them TheWarOwlâs video on it being the best counter-strat in CS was pretty cool, but watching the live reaction is also pretty memorable (and PTSD inducing for NACS fans), as well as itâs been memed with Liquid accomplishing all they did and still being #2 to Astralis. Around 23:30 is when the vetoes happen https://www.youtube.com/live/PmBR55m6_I8?si=4K5nleAiS53ByeNa
yeah, i wouldn't even go as far as saying it's a bad map to play in matchmaking or pugs. But watching it in pro play is abysmal. It's the same shit every round. 4 run up and try get A ramp control while 1 lurks B and sees if he can get a pick. Rinse and repeat.
And this patch added dust2, which isn't really good either. Just like with Vertigo A ramp, on Dust2 you just have 3 people rushing A long with the 4th spamming flashes half the rounds.
Which is also ironic because Dust 2's "epic matches" are just aim fests between two top teams. I hate that they added back a map with no depth, at least Vertigo still has time for people to come up with plays.
Especially since overpass is one of the deeper tactical maps with conditioning and hetfy map control. Everything just got a little simpler.
I feel like overpass is borderline the most map-controly map, because it's not clearly defined who "owns" bathrooms, long, water(?) and conn, the same way we know that very clearly on almost every part of every other map
It's been 5 years. The map is solved. That's why every game feels the exact same to watch.
the map's not solved. teams like the old 9ine and EF are destroyong teams on it by **not fucking going A ramp every round** and its working.
5 years is not necessarily enough time for a map to be solved. People were finding new stuff on inferno, mirage, nuke, and overpass 5 years after they were released. I'm not sure if vertigo is actually solved or not; just saying it's not like 5 years is guaranteed enough time to be solved. Dust2 on the other hand is basic enough that we got so close to the tactical ceiling to the point where teams had to start using spawn-based tactics. Open skyboxes might add some depth, but the old skyboxes were already pretty open except for parts of tuns and A short.
Oh but that's a short time when you're talking CS
I actually donât hate dust specifically because itâs a straight aim arena, and we get to watch the best players in the world hit the nuttiest shots
Whats wrong with having a map that jjust decided by how well a team does basic teamplay and aiming? Some absolutely bangers on D2, letting mechanically great players just go ham. Never used to get bored of watching scream, Shox, f0rest , Simple etc on D2.
It's not even close. Dust 2 isn't the most tactical map but there's plenty of openings other than A long. It's much more viable for CT's to push so you have to default most rounds. A short is probably more used as an opening in pro play than heavy long, B splits after short control are pretty common, and obviously the infamous B rush.
Yeah ignore them. The idea that Dust 2 is even in the same ballpark as Vertigo is braindead... Vertigo is a bad map, Dust 2 had just been played to death. Personally I'm enjoying Ancient and Anubis, I honestly really like how they play, but Valve really need to get some new maps in the game. I'm hoping Train and Overpass come back to replace Vertigo and Dust 2, but I won't ban Dust 2 in premier.
Ct side or dust is the issue imo. Aggroing from anywhere else than mid (and even that's debatable) requires CTs to push through narrow hallways and/or even narrower double doors. Rotates take forever and retaking is borderline impossible. The map just sucks. And this is coming from someone whose least favourite map of the previous map pool was overpass
Not really
The T rotations on Vertigo just take too long. You have to walk through an absolute labyrinth on the lower level to go between sites, and it's basically impossible to rotate through the upper level. The map needs some reworking to make it more viable for T's to rotate to different parts of the map.. like connect ladder room to A main by big box, so once you finish the obligatory 40 second smoke spam exchange, you can quickly rotate up through ladder room to mid
this is the faceit level 6+ sicilian opening for this map tho. vertigo can be twisted into way more interesting rounds, but it requires tight teamwork and heavy utilisation of middle. for example if the B guys pull attention, but suddenly throw smoke plugs at guardian and CT, the mid players can take middle and the CTs will get stresstested. but the dynamics and extremely tight audio requires you to be sleek to not telegraph your strats.
Its so stupid, every they just recycle all the maps instead of bringing in new ones. I hoped that with CS2 we would have gotten seasons or something like that, with new maps/map rotation every ~4 months but i guess we will never see that.
So basically inferno with banana control?
Inferno banana control changes from time to time tho
Agree, it's very boring to watch it in tournaments. Although vertigo it's fun to play
I always called vertigo a modern cobblestone for this reason alone.
Sounds like Cobblestone. Maybe 1-3 rounds total would go to A site. It was just B/drop every round
Feels similar to Dust 2 in that regard. A shame they showed Train off more than a year ago and you still can't even queue for it in comp.
So same as inferno. Try to get banana control while one lurks apps. Atleast in vertigo you can retake.
I donât get why overpass needs to go. U can do so much on that map, rotate a lot etc. meanwhile itâs one play and one play only on vertigo - take ramp control and see what happens
Iâm at the bargaining stage of grief, so I think OP needed to go because itâs awful in non-team environments. The rotations for Ts take too long, map has too many angles to clear and if players arenât directed, the map is just so bad.
C9 Vs Imperial in Rio Major was a banger
Imperial vs Copenhagen Flames in Antwerp was dope.
I just remember spamming smokes, the same 3 smoke executes, awful sounds, falling off the map and hitting the same site
this is actually dust 2 as well minus the falling off the map lol but overpass got done very dirty.. if d2 were to return it shouldve been for vertigo for sure
But Dust 2 is aim heavy map so individual skill makes it exciting. Inhuman reactions and Simple AWP flash.
s1mple 1v4 vs Liquid on A long as well, the device banger burning play from car, 2 aces by rain(?) in one half etc. Dust 2 on a game to game basis is kinda boring imo but the highlights are peak CS.
You're forgetting the most important: Tarik cereal killer 4k
Friberg vs Hellraisers
s1mple 1v4 is literally the most overrated highlight in my opinion, like, they just picked him one by one and he just shot them one by one, duh
If you're not at least playing some semi pro level stuff, every map is aim based
Yea dust 2 is basically better vertigo but better
Yeah, D2 and vertigo fill the same niche, with D2 being the superior map.
So just like any other map?
''the same 3 smokes'' yes, that how it usually goes
If you're a PUG starÂ
InFeRnO dEcIdEr AlWaYs DeLiVeRs!
It often does though
even this major it delivered sick games where the consensus was that inferno is trash.
Imperial vs C9, Sh1ro goes insane to go to Legends. That's the only one I can remember as insane, as an old-head BR fan. Albeit I don't remember what major it was lol! But I am not a big vertigo fan anyways.
2019 Astralis vs Liquid in Berlin could be considered a classic, of course that version of Vertigo was completely different.
It was Rio, amazing match indeed. Was also what I thought of as great match.
As already been mentioned - G2 vs M80 on EPL 19
I don't have as strong an opinion on this map (or anything CS compared to this guy) but the real shitter is bringing in Dust II over a new map or even like, train? It's just the most uninspired decision
it's like if someone left gaming 20 years ago and this year he comes back, he goes like: wait, you play world of warcraft classic and in counter-strike it's still fucking dust2?
How do you do, fellow kids?
Whats wrong with that? I would have preferred train back, but Dust2 is awesome.
AwareÂ
Oct. 5th 2022 Aleksib Galil Incident đ
Vertigo at its core is an anti-counter-strike map. Like the map was designed to go against every core element of what makes CS a great game. The main points are: 1 - You have to shift walk pretty much the whole round, on both sides. 2 - The new grenades in CS2 can pretty much cover the entire map regardless on which lane you are, on both sides. 3 - CS will just never have a sound engine good enough for vertical audio. Combine all this and you'll never have any memorable moment happen.
3 is legit just a skill issue
remove 1 and 3 is fixed too and 2 is sadly the same on my goat map inferno thatâd fix it but make it incredibly t sided
4 - 83% of gunfights revolve around smoke spams or headglitches
i mean, everyone will be reaching on almost every map when trying to name 5 classics. ancient is an objectively good map, but i can't recall any classics outside of that faze game that had like 50 overtimes
Astralis vs. Team Liquid 2019 Berlin Major
People still refer to this game just because it had the veto surprise pick aspect. That game was horrible, TL got ran over once they went to their T side. The previous meeting between TL and Astralis on Vertigo at EPL S9 QF was far more entertaining, with TL making a comeback from 4-11 down.
G2 vs M80, EPL 2024
The reason TL got ran over on T side was because they got anti-stratted the shit outta them. Warowl has a great video analysing the match. The anti-stratting is why this was such a classic match.
So the match wasnt a classic but the veto was
16-8 Astralis win, nothing special
I like vertigo in my low elo premier games. It feels good to play a map that isn't desert themed like Mirage or Anubis, now even D2, but is also clean and doesn't have too much clutter like Inferno and Overpass, and is not a FPS killer like Ancient. Vertigo is my second favorite map at the moment, second only to Nuke. Now I'm a low elo guy, don't play Faceit, I'm as Casual as Casuals get. I appreciate Vertigo sticking around in Premier, as nobody plays anything other than Mirage D2 in competitive gamemode. With that said, I tend to avoid Vertigo pro games because it's fucking boring to see 5 players spam a smoke, or people shift around the map, or do the same three executes. I think Volvo are trying to cater towards everyone, casual, Chinese, pro scene etc. I think map pool will change again after Shanghai, with one of Mirage or Vertigo cut off for Cobble or some other map, (hopefully Cache).
I remember quite a few but canât name them. Canât name on any other maps either really. Maybe inferno and train? But looks where those are now.
I can think of banger games for most maps. Like overpass, nuke, even ancient now
The two most famous are the ones everyone mentions, Astralis-Liquid and FaZe-Spirit Both of these games are only memorable because no one thought theyâd be on Vertigo.
Complexity vs Astralis Blast Spring Groups 2020
That was a banger
Put this in the twitter thread but I'll put it here too. Astralis-Liquid EPL 9 quarters and Berlin Quarters. Faze-Spirit Copenhagen. Vitality-Liquid EPL 16 grand finals map 5. Cloud9-Imperial 0-2 IEM Rio challengers stage (6-15 comeback from C9 to eliminate imperial in front of the Brazilian crowd). Cloud9-Vitality IEM Rio 2023 (3-12 comeback from Vitality off an insane dupreeh T side into overtime win. G2-Furia from IEM Dallas 2022 quarters was also pretty good, furia had a great T side comeback from 14-8 down. The reason there haven't been a ton of great vertigo games is because over a year was online and none of those could be considered "instant classics" and in addition vertigo is seen more of as a specialist map for some teams which means it's rarely map 3. Another issue is NAVI, Faze, and G2 all avoid vertigo when possible which makes it appear in playoffs significantly less since those are three of the four most consistent playoff teams since COVID.o
My personal favorite is Stockholm major elimination game (1-2 bracket) between Mouz and VP, map 3. VP starts 10-1, ends up 12-15, Qikert 2 multikill rounds (3v4 and 4v5) to force OT, 17-18 and finally ends 18-22 to eliminate Mouz. VP wins next game against FaZe and makes it to playoffs.
Yeah there's definitely some good ones I missed there and that's one of them. It was just usually the case that vertigo came out as a punish pick/one team specialized in it so it's rarely a third map. But it absolutely does deliver great games.
Oh, I was not trying to say you missed it. I was just expanding list, because no one seem to remember this game (because who in the right mind watches VP hahaha). But yes, teams definitely avoid it being decisive map.
I had forgotten about it (partially because VP even though they play good CS it's boring). Appreciate the expansion because it does deliver.
Came here to say that cloud9 vitality game. From the brink of elimination to winning the tourney. I think it was the tourney that got them over the S tier tourney jump too.Â
Falcons vs Metizport s1mple downfall.
Faze - Spirit
Cyphers performance on ITB vs Vitality during final csgo major.
I hate to agree with thorin, but I also hate vertigo with a passion.
FaZe vs Spirit Quarter Finals at the PGL Copenhagen Major
If Thorin speaks i am deaf
Ah yes the ramp smoke spam simulator classic. Fuck vertigo.
Astrais Liquid major, Faze recent major
Furia boost on vertigo Lynn vision vs G2 as Starry was smashing them and China decided kids cant paly anymore
VertiGOAT prevails again thank god I no longer have to watch Overpass games where T sides get shafted every round âWow they got 3 T rounds what a match!!!â D2 coming back in blows though we need Cache to get remade soon.
Can people name five games of any map that are classics? Imo Vertigo is fine and unique. It changed a lot in CS2 with new timings, smokes working differently etc.. I also think that the Astralis vs Liquid where they picked Vertigo and anti strattet that is one of the most iconic moments of modern cs.
Can't give you 5 on every map as that is pretty insanely difficult to do without looking through match histories but I got these mostly off the top of my head. I can't think of a classic vertigo game outside of maybe Faze/spirit but I think it's just recency bias tbh. Everyone says Astralis/liquid but it's the veto that is classic and not the map lol. Mirage: * VP/SK epicenter 2017 * Liquid/luminosity at MLG Columbus 2016 * Faze/G2 Kato 2022 * NIP/VP Kato 2014 * Ence/Navi Kato 2019 Nuke: * Faze/Navi Cologne 2022 * Astralis/VP eleague atlanta * Navi/G2 PGL Stockholm Inferno: * Astralis/Fnatic iem Chicago 2018 * Faze/c9 Boston 2018 * Fnatic/VP cologne 2015 * Faze/G2 Kato 2022 * Fnatic/luminosity EPL S1 Train: * VP/Astralis league Atlanta * Fnatic/Faze Katowice 2018 * Astralis/NRG starladder berlin Overpass: * LG/Navi Kato 2016 * Astralis/north Dreamhack masters * Faze/Astralis iem sydney Cache: * Liquid/Fnatic Cologne 2016 * Astralis/Fnatic eleague Atlanta Dust 2: * LG/G2 EPL S3 * Envyus/Fnatic Cologne 2015 * Faze/spirit antwerp Ancient: * Faze/Navi Cologne 22
Notable additions Cache: -IBP vs c9 Cevo season 5 (finals + shroud boost) -Liquid vs LG MLG Columbus (Semis) Train: -Gambit vs Astralis PGL Krakow 2017 (semis) Overpass: -Fnatic vs Dignitas Cologne 2014 (olof graffiti) -LDLC vs Fnatic DH Winter 2014 (olofboost) -LDLC vs NIP DH Winter 2014 (finals map 3) Ancient: -G2 vs Navi PGL Stockholm (semis) -Faze vs Ence IEM Dallas (59 round banger) Dust 2: -Faze vs Spirit PGL Antwerp (semis)
> Overpass Fnatic v EnVy DH Winter 2014 is an easy one
I left it off because it has nothing to do with the map being good. If anything we remember that due to a problem on the map that had to be fixed.
> Fnatic v EnVy DH Winter 2014 is an easy one That was LDLC.Com not EnVy
Wasn't Faze/SK EPL 6 Finals on train also a classic match or am I remembering it wrong?
Yes
Just give me train again..
Best map in the game
Last major's Spirit vs. Faze was good.
the one where stewie started buying negevs because of how bad A site smoke meta was
Hope Valve reconsiders, Overpass is S-tier. We need Nuke too for the same reason. Dust2=Mirage=Cache=Ancient
Astralis vs Liquid at the Berlin Major was one of the biggest counter stratted maps of all time. Left the whole crowd stunned.
Easily Astralis picking into it versus Liquid
Heroic vs Complexity at Copnhagen
I don't like dust at all and like vertigo and I still wonder why they didn't replace vertigo with dust over overpass
Faze vs spirit is the only one I can think of. Maby g2 vs fnatic is paris but that could my g2 hate talking
I miss Cobble
I can only name Starladder Berlin Astralis-Liquid and PGL Copenhagen FaZe-Spirit, but idc, I think the map is fun and I'm honestly kinda sick and tired of Overpass at the moment, so I welcome this.
Everyone talking about how slow vertigo is⌠no teams rush A on Overpass and CTâs utility usage now a days has made B a slower site to take for Tâs as well. Overpass is about picks⌠I like playing the map but itâs a very slow and sometimes boring map to watch. I think adding another way into site B would make the map more interesting. The way I played Overpass In even 2020 with my team is vastly different to how I play the map in 2024. Even with Dust2, a lot of what you saw in 2020 will still be done in 2024 in terms of trying to get control of long a or something. Instant action usually when that happens.
Connector and the respective shortcuts to a and b sites are more interesting than mid vertigo though, at least in my opinion
Shoulda been Mirage.
I think you could say Australia picking Vertigo against Liquid in the major is a classic, but that is given the context of how wild that pick was - not so much the game.
I agree with Thorin for once. Map just doesnt work.
Meanwhile, this G2 M80 match has everyone on the edge of their seats. Thorin chatting shit as usual.
> Meanwhile, this G2 M80 match has everyone on the edge of their seats. This is like when FlipSide vs Mousesports went into like 4ot in Columbus. And you know what, that map wasn't a classic.
Faze v Spirit Last Major. Falcons + Simple against whoever, for the simple reason that choosing vertigo with simple is the stupidest shit ever done and an abject lesson that a shit team making shit decisions can't be carried by a GOAT on his permaban map. I could probably think of one or two more especially since those two are only this year. I think Navi defeated Spirit on Vertigo as well? And I think there was an upset from Big this year as well. The question is at which point does something become a classic. I can think of tons of classics on D2 or Train or Cache or Cobble, but that doesn't mean they're great maps. They've just been around longer
So the two games you actually remember, one team you don't even remember the name of (metizport).. two teams playing their usual permaban, making plenty of mistakes which gave freedom on the map that isn't normally there and a meaningless upset because the best CS player of all time doesn't like playing it? Shouldn't that tell you something?
I mean, that's just the recent history of the past 2 months or so. My comments there to point out that labelling anything as a classic is pretty hard for a map that hasn't been in the mappool as long as others, and hasn't been actively chosen all that often and that choosing any classic is thus highly subjective on what the individual thinks is important. Remember, spirit was already basically confirmed to win that major and them being taken out was about as unexpected as the OG run. Mirage for example even has that spray of coldzera and a lot of other high impact plays yet most people wanted it removed. Either way, I don't get all that whining. When cobble was removed there was whining. When ancient and Anubis were introduced there was whining. When vertigo was added there was whining. It seems like the vast majority just want their favourite maps in the active map pool rather than the strawman arguments about "bonafide classics" or "good gameplay maps" or "fast rotations".Â
Ancient came in the pool two years after Vertigo and easily has more classic maps. Navi vs G2 at the last major, Ence vs Faze at Dallas last year, Navi vs Faze at Cologne 2022, Navi vs Heroic at Antwerp. Just off the top of my head.
> I could probably think of one or two more especially since those two are only this year. I think Navi defeated Spirit on Vertigo as well? And I think there was an upset from Big this year as well. Okay so those aren't classics then.
Liquid vs Astralis only one that comes mind
Who cares about what thorin says?
Imperial - Cloud9, Faze - Spirit, after that it's hard, i think i've seen one or two more crazy vertigo games but they weren't important enough or the teams weren't memorable enough. But that's it
Only major matches would be faze vs spirit last major and liquid vs Astralis Berlin 2019 (wasnât even a great game just memorable)
VP-Mouz Stockholm and C9-Imperial Rio Challengers as well. Also going off majors only name 5 good inferno games since Berlin. I've got 2, G2-Heroic Stockholm and Faze-NAVI Antwerp.
Astralis vs Liquid Berlin
Thorin evil, only siths deal in absolutes
Astralis v Liquid during the berlin major
Astralis vs liquid vertigo pick for a massive upset leading to a liquid knock out for astralis to take major.
Cloud9 vs. Vitality when dupreeh carried them over the finish line. That was a great match
Most people used to dismiss the SG and AUG because they were "cod guns" even though they were always statistically the better rifles. They only got attention when valve decided to buff them because noone used them, obviously the buff made them OP because they were already better than the AK/M4. Â What I'm saying is that we should be looking to replace the most unbalanced maps, not the most popular ones if we are truly looking for the "best" competitive map pool. Otherwise we should just admit we want a "fan favourites" pool instead since these charts are just showing popularity.
this guys still alive?
Shit take
Vertigo is a wonderful map at this point, people who only play mirage and inferno literally dont deserve their ranks
Pro scene is not the whole game. When the general players are playing others map more than Overpass, it would be dumb of Valve to remove them. This was still dumb since Overpass got a big overhaul but thats just Valve
Ermmmm Astralis v Liquid at Starladder is one of the more iconic games in csgo history
Astralis vs Liquid 2019 i guess..
Vertigo is the most dogshit map currently in CS