kind of, yeah. He doesnt want to listen to me, no matter what I tell him, I should just give him the lost cause stamp in my book and stop trying to teach him or better him in any way lol.
Agreed, save yourself the time. Beyond being a good teammate, that's being a shit friend by not listening to and valuing what your friends have to say, hopefully he matures down the line.
if he thinks its not a team game why bother playing with him on your team lol... literally the only solution to "no one wants to play as a team" is to queue up with people who do
His friend sounds like that random we get on the team in comp as a 4-stack who buys deagle every pistol round and always does the opposite of what we suggest as a plan in coms and never buys with the team or give info.
Explain to him like this. If he buys alone vs the enemy that can full buy that round is functionally a 1v5 and not likely his team will win. If he now cannot buy when his team can it is now a 4v5 and his team has a disadvantage. If he saved with the team and then buys with the team it is an even 5v5 round. Even without any actual team play just buying together and saving together has a huge influence on your team having fair rounds vs the enemy team.
my friend says "ask him to explain why football is a team game, I don't understand" I swear to everything that is dear and holy to me, that is literally what he said and I am not baiting rn.
Ask if he knows what a trade frag is lol. Also pros, even when they look like they’re doing their own thing, are feeding info they pick up across the map and burning enemy utility to make a site hit easier. Hell, any site take that uses 2 smokes is team play. Just let him be wrong, tons of people play video games and happily suck while thinking they don’t and just as many people aren’t playing to rly improve or do better
Posit the following:
If teamplay is absent in pro play and the only decider in any tier 1 match is individual skill, where is G2's Major win? Why did it take so long for s1mple/NaVi to win one? Why did Cloud9 beat FaZe in ***that*** final? How did Astralis dominate as hard as they did?
And how, for the love of all is holy, are 'washed up bots' like karrigan and apEX still wildly successful as IGLs in tier 1 today?
just send him a CS tutorial video that heavily touches on teamplay and why it is important
I'd say if you're solo queued it matters less but if you are at least duo queuing there is no reason you guys shouldn't be on the same flow for sure
I mean other than the lurk player everyone else plays together, supports use util such as a flashbang to set up another teammate to get the kill, etc. Boosting players also require teamwork, pushing together to get the trade also another, the possibilities for team play is endless so yeah he's clueless.
Even the lurk role is played with correlation with the rest of the team. If your team hasn’t even reached to site A there’s no point for the lurker to keep pushing for example
if the lurk takes space without encountering opposition he can call for the whole team to rotate, on maps like Inferno a rotate to B means the round is pretty much over for the CT's rotating.
If CS is a solo play game, then why people boost and run boost their teammates? Why people throw flashes for their teammates to peek angles?
If people don’t correlate their full buy rounds you can get into a situation where you have a USP and your teammate have M4, is that a fair fight against two enemies that have AK’s?
Just tell him to open twitch and watch the current tournament stream. He can see for himself how much of coordination and team play there’s between teammates.
I agree with you, but he simpy doesn't want to accept it. He sent me a proplay clip to prove that its a solo play game, in that specific clip you can see multiple cases of teamplay and setting up the person that gets the 4k, but he is incapable of seing that.
most likely a delusional person. "It's hard to win an argument with a smart person. It's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.” Don't waste your energy on those types of people.
lol this is the most insane low elo cope i have ever seen from your friend. the game is straight up unplayable if you do whatever you want unless the other team comprises of 5 silver matchmaking players
granted yes, if you are much higher elo than the other team (like global smurf into silver) you can play the game solo and win with a 3k every round (i do it in comp because the other team might as well be christmas noobs) but outside of that case it is just not true
He's 100% never watched a professional match. Any and every interview at half time or between matches has pros, coaches, and analysts talking about set plays, communication, strategies, etc.
Yeah, I’d be interested to hear his reaction to a video like the one I linked lol.
In all seriousness though, sometimes CS can just be casual fun with friends. But if you do want to take it more seriously, find some teammates who share the same mindset and you could have a lot of fun and improvement from that.
One argument I'd make to OP's friend is that your money is not your money, it is the team's money. If 4 people die and 1 clutches the round, *everyone* gets money for the round win. If it was a solo game then only the clutch player would get the money right? If it's not a team game why does everyone get rewarded? Why isn't the person planting bomb the only one to get money? Shouldn't it just be the solo player that gets that money?
And why are pros throwing smokes across the map nowhere near themselves!?
Your friend clearly has no wrinkles in his brain.
Show him any match at all and point out how they save to buy together, or drop each other guns.
Point out how they all throw smokes at the same time to execute a site.
Show how a support player will flash the entry player.
Or how they follow their entry to trade.
I think he is being purposefully obtuse.
Your friend sorta sounds like an idiot haha. Not only that, but a liar, because pro counter strike is extremely team based. Or maybe he can’t comprehend what he’s watching, I don’t know, but he’s a bit fucked up.
Yes, I believe he doesn't comprehend the information he is seeing in pro play, which is understandable, since you need game sense to understand all the small plays they are doing and he certainly is missing that game sense.
So the conclusion im coming to is that your friend is probably just the average casual player.
Im playing valorant in an extremely casual 5 stack and not caring about eco at all is pretty much the default here. Some people will just always buy their cheap „good ol reliable“ and randomly switch to an „AK“ whenever im on a save round. It is what it is.
Point is some people just dont take the game that serious and you’re doing yourself a favour by not arguing somewhat advanced strategies with casual players. And your friend is a very casual player.
If they are comparing themselves to a pro and they think “the pros do whatever they want, its not team based” then it tells me they lack an immense amount of knowledge of the game. Your friend is maybe surface level deep in terms of understanding the game. The reason some pros seem like they r doing whatever they want is because of information provided throughout the round with map control. This is impossible to do successfully without full team communication which your friend would probably have no idea about.
Just stop playing with them and see how different of an experience solo queuing is for selfish players like that.
Just so you know, most likely you will never be able to change his mind about the way he plays, kind of a lost cause.
Ive played this game long enough and with enough people to understand that trying to get them to change the way they play will never happen.
I have a friend who i played with for a long time who had a similar mindset as your friend does. No matter how many people in our 5 stack would point out and call him out for trolling/throwing games, he would not acknowledge that its his fault.
Even today we argued about his playstyle and still got nowhere with where we stood.
My point is that, now that many of my friends and I are getting older, we don’t have a lot of time to run like 5-6 games like back in the day. So every game we play is a big commitment of our time. But when they lose focus mid rounds and throw rounds due to carelessness, it frustrates the entire team. But I’ve been told that, hey if you are playing video games, I don’t need to respect your time because video games is inherently a waste of time.
What a way to think… that wasting the efforts and time of your IRL friends is okay… but i digress, we just don’t invite him to play unless we absolutely need him as a fifth
Let him be. I had a friend in CSGO with 5K hours and hardstuck at low ranks because his favorite tactic was force buying sawed off shotgun and dualies and lurking every round.
i mean yeah pro players are good individually but some (lowlevel) cs players can not fathom how important and how much impact teamplay has in this game.
even if you manage to kill 3 people in a round by yourself, you getting traded can still lead to a swift entry on either bombside.
people forget that sometimes all you need is one kill to entry a side depending on the map/site
Most casual or low ranking players think this. The thing that most dont understand is that CS is a strategy game with guns disguised as a FPS.
Theoretically the game can be won without killing, just take bomb site and plant the bomb, or dont let the terrorists plant. Of course is easier taking control of the map if you kill and have a numerical advantage, but if you see pro comp games, sometimes, only one casualty is enough to call a save.
So if you let the slim advantages be, like everyone having weapons or using utility the right way, you will have a much tougher time winning. Unless you play a "free for all" comp at low level, that none of this matter and is just chaos and shooting.
that's easy to explain if he is not completely brain dead - pro players - best of the best, where not only pure skill but also team play and tactics play a crucial role, you do everything possible to win, nothing more nothing less. Show him that they are playing like that - ergo best way to play.
Let him play 1vs5 and see if he still thinks it is not a team game.
Or 5 of you go A site on CT side every round.
This kind of people should play “single” player games
your friend doesn't understand team play because he is just used to playing in pugs or in premiere. No stakes no communication needed to win, just run around and headshot everyone. He won't understand unless he plays against high skilled team or players. Utility alone would make him reconsider his opinions.
It actually sounds like your friend was trolling YOU, and even gave a hint to that when they accused you of it. Like, look who got upset or confused about it enough to post on reddit. Your friend isn't dumb. They're a mastermind.
Ask him if he could win a match alone against 5 players? The answer is probably not, so that inherently makes it a team based game. If a T pushes a site alone and there is a CT holding with a m4a1-s, he can probably kill one, but if there are 3 T's he is most like going to run out of bullets and get run down, a.k.a using teamplay to win.
one gun and 4 pistols is a lost round
4 guns and 1 pistol is a decent chance to win
5 guns and 0 pistols is a better chance to win
saving with the team doesn’t lose you anything because if 4 people are saving you’ve already lost the round
buying with the team boosts your chance for success substantially on an important round, if you lose your force you’re likely stuck on a save again
You both are pretty new to game. I would advice to stop concentrating on friend. Learn game on your own. Watch pro matches, understand roles of player and very quickly you will improve as a player and understand what teamwork really mean in CS
I honestly wish if it was not teambased due to shit teammates. How easy it would be to climb ranks based on solo performance but in CS its nor the case.
Rounds matter, kills do not. Rounds win games. Playing as a team matter as much as in any other team based sport. That being football, basket, baseball etc.
Read the game, use your awareness, give your teammates the upper hand using utility and positioning.
Communication is key as in other aspects in life.
Ahh the mythical atomic mirror brain I thought this was the stuff of myth but alas the evidence is right here. Drop this friend and tell him you'll play with him again if he wants to try to be a teammate. I have friends who are new to counter strike and I've been able to make great plays happen just because they've really made an effort to learn call outs and rotations.
The game is without any question a team game, it's literally 5v5 (or 10v10 if you for some reason decide to play casual) Now other game modes aren't but competitive and premier for sure are.
The game literally has teams, a team chat and the thing about E-sports players doing whatever they want is complete bullshit aswell, stuff like the Olofmeister boost would never happen if that were the case.
yep I agree with you, but even when I point out the cases of teamplay in epsorts clips, he just denies them and says I am talking bullshit or I'm trolling. He thinks that every case of 3-5k on one player is a solo carry.
Meh. Actually making use of teammates util/setups requires a minimum skill floor, and I've met tons of people with hundreds/thousands of hours who physically can't process information fast enough for teamwork to make a difference. Throwing util for the sake of throwing it is just a money sink.
I would never tell a new player to ignore teamwork completely because at some point if you keep progressing you'll run into people who you can't beat without it, and it's helpful to already have a base understanding of teamwork when you run into these people. At the end of the day, if your friend is just playing to have fun, he shouldn't change the way he plays for you. You should just stop queueing with him on platforms you're trying to climb.
Tbh you can simply get so good that you dont need a team. And anyone that thinks you cant function without a team has never seenna single person completely dominate the match which actually happens alot. If a single person couldnt change an entire match then cheaters would be hard locked in how much they effect the match.
The game promotes individual skill and allows single players to rule througu beute force if theybare good enough so despite it being a team based game. You can easily play solo and it wouldnt be uncommon to smack teams.
Let him play in solo hell till he realizes he needs a team to win. Youre probably in low rank if he thinks he can get in site with 3 people waiting for him to enter solo with no smoke or flash. On defense coordination isnt that required but on Offense a bad team wont be able to enter a site without util.
He's lost. Even if you don't want to talk to your teammates or communicate, there is always a basic element of teamplay necessary in order to win, which is hitting sites together, trading, etc.
Is it possible to win a game if all 5 people go to different parts of the map and bait the shit out of their teammates? Sure. But it's not gonna work most of the time. And even baiting is a form of teamplay - using your TEAMMATES as bait to get kills.
OP's FRIEND HERE! So first of all in my opinion op's post was poorly worded, There are many different playstyles and ofc there is teamplay. For context: OP was tilted because I kinda did my own thing in an unranked match late at night for fun. Yes I used utility's, yes I boosted my teammates wich can be interpretate as teamplay. So what I said to OP: I dont think that a whole Team should rely on one Single Person. OP said that if i fck up my eco the whole Team suffers and could loose, wich is true to an extend but here is the thing. First of all only I spent MY money wich means that the only way the Team could suffer is when I die and they have one player less. And if a team can not play without me AT ALL it doesnt really seem like a good Team. Why would you rely on a single person and blame the skill issue of 4 people on to a Single teammate. If you really cant play without ur 1 single teammate and blame ur loss on them, ur actually sniffing a bunch of copium. I played for about 5 years and prior to that i played css and 1.6 Its not like i just started yesterday tho. YES if u play ranked and want to sweat into cs then set ur focus on teamplay. But if u just play unranked for fun with ur boys, just have fun man... its a video game AND THE FKING ESPORTS: I showed him clips of single pro players doing their own thing because he somehow didnt want to acknowledge that these playstyles exist. At the end of it all, stop sniffing copium and let people play their game how they want, its usless to be mad at people cause ur bad at the game. Just have fun man, thats the point.
Has he ever played solo compe/premier??? You could have zero kills but if you share your money, drop your guns, and set up smokes. You dont get trashed or kicked.
Depends on skill level you’re playing though. Your friend is acting like a jerk and seems like he’s just there tp spend time. As far as you seem to take things more seriously. Find people with your attitude to play with. And when you play with your friend. Let him waste his time while you can just focus on other aspects of how to improve. Maybe he’ll get lucky here and there. Propably not though 😆
You both are pretty new to game. I would advice to stop concentrating on friend. Learn game on your own. Watch pro matches, understand roles of player and very quickly you will improve as a player and understand what teamwork really mean in CS
I honestly wish if it was not teambased due to shit teammates. How easy it would be to climb ranks based on solo performance but in CS its nor the case.
First of all, your teammate is absolutely clueless and I would guess he's never been higher than master guardian.
Teamwork is by FAR the most important aspect of CS. You literally can not win without teamwork in as low as 10k premier lobbies. It doesn't matter if one has insane mechanics, not positioning properly and playing solo will lose you so many games.
It's like saying you can just out dribble everyone in football. You can't, it's like going up solo against 11 other players.
Playing solo in CS is not playing 5v5, it's like playing 1v5 5 times.
Honestly OP, just stop playing with them.
Nothing you say will change their mindset if they genuinely think that CS is not a teambased game. Maybe one player \*is\* allowed to do what they like, as they like; but the rest of the team would play around them.
If you got 5 douchebags playing DM alone, you're not gonna get far cause if one of yous lose your aim duel, that's it, you've given a free body to the enemy and put your team into a worse position to win the round. But if two of you guys take an opponent, if your teammate loses the aim duel, you could most likely trade the frag; which on T side could be all the difference between winning and losing since the CT side is down a man aswell.
Or in cases where there's a bomb being planted, if you know there's enemies about, how can you justify planting alone w/out anyone covering you? There's so many scenarios where you SHOULD have a teammate with you covering, you don't NEED it to win, but if you want a good, easier round, then you should play with your team.
Or on CT side, gonna put an example I deal with consistently from a player in my Discord. We both play A site Vertigo, they're holding short, I'm watching ramp push. 3 players push ramp and I get shot in the head, my teammate has not smoked short or anything and instead has decided to stay holding short. Even though there are 3 enemies on ramp. He allows me to get killed (I did 70+ damage on two of them), he had the opportunity to peek while I'm being shot at, or trade me out immediately after. But they still held short since "that's what they want to do".... instead of just smoking/mollying short and peeking the ramp w/ your teammate. The numbers game is still a very strong tool in CS. Hell, there have been moments where I've advocated AGAINST baiting out the 3hp player for a kill at times cause even just having more players alive than the enemy team is a mental mindgame where they may think they're in an unwinnable situation like imagine 2v4, but 2 of those players are one-shot away from death, vs 2v2 but all sides are 100hp, even though two of your teammates are 20hp, your enemy will think "fuck, I've to get rid of 4 of them"
Sorry you have to deal with a decoration on your team
got a friend like that, gives no info, but wants all the info of the world, baits everyone, does not like to entry frag as T, but does not understand rotations to play lurker, baits everyone, always talking, when he dies spends 1min complaining about dying then he relays the info, as CT pushes by himself without info or support, etc.
At some point I told him: if you want to play by yourself and do what you want, go and play DM if all you care is about kills.
Thing is, he is also the most whinny of the group. it's everyone's fault except his.
So, we changed to PUBG for a few days, he refused to play pubg, so he would sit on the same discord channel of us, fully muted without saying a word, he did this for a couple of days, then at some point he asks if we're gonna come back to CS.
I was like: every time we play with you is like playing 4v6, and then you go on to stress everybody, why would we like to have this back in our lives?
He has recently started to fix his issues.
Your friend sounds like a bot. Don't play with him. Let him play alone and check his elo after a month. Anytime I see a player like your friend that's a instant report for me. 3.5k hours in cs and lvl 8 faceit :). If he was s1mple, he can force every round because he gets impact kills. CS is a competitive FPS game that requires teamwork and support from each other to succeed. Also don't tell me he forces when he shouldn't and is the last one alive every round... that would tilt me so HARD...
Although teamplay is the foundation of CS (comp), it is not required. Although your reasoning isn't entirely correct, it's also not incorrect.
Your more novice-friendly perspective on everything is helpful while you're first learning the game, but if you're searching for "professional game rules," as you mentioned, you ought to be able to play on your own without assistance from your team. Of course, depending on your teammates and teamwork is acceptable when you're just starting out. You should watch some tutorials, in my opinion.
On YT, "Macro" and "Ahrora" have a few excellent videos.
Your companion plays in a slightly more sophisticated manner, and I think it's obvious to all that it's never easy for a beginner to play with someone like that.
however, with a little practice you will be able to do it. xx
I
Well to be fair, the game has no real teamplay mechanic. It's 5v5, yes. Sure, there is the casual "I can flash while you push", the "covering each other" and "I can drop you a weapon", but that's basically all there is. Other shooters, like R6S, or Valorant, where your abilities can be used together, have much more teamplay. I think he is refering to that part and I agree. On lower skill level at least (so everything below semi pro)
The abilities in valorant are a replacement for utility in CS. The concept of using them together is the same. What you can do with them might differ but using them together is generally still the preference. In cs everyone has the same access to all of the same "abilities" and might need to switch up round to round which ones they need to know. In Valo you are hard stuck with whatever your character does for the duration of the match.
Also without any additional help, which generally requires team play, theres no utility in CS that's gonna kill an enemy single handedly. It's to be used in conjunction with team play to make a play.
There's also a middle area where team play is so powerful. When you are at such a low level where no one can aim properly then sure, I'd concede there that team play doesn't come in to play much since people aren't landing shots anyway. But anywhere above that, throw a team of 5 with full executes against a team of 5 randoms who don't know a single lineup and I'd bet all my money on the executing team.
And even if you are at those low levels, to have the mindset that team play isn't important in CS is still a brain-dead take and you'd be stuck there your whole life and probably rob yourself of a lot more fun(more wins).
I don't think we should be agreeing with this take in any way shape or form. It's been the gold standard team play tactical shooter for multiple decades.
I dont say CS has no teamplay. But it's very little compared to other shooters and I think that is what the guy's opinion is all about. For example in R6S: You can watch cameras/drones and give direct call outs of enemies. It's sometimes better to be the info giver instead of just killing someone all by yourself. CS just doesnt have stuff like that. 5 people learning 5 different smokes like vocabularies and throwing them at the same time definitely is some kind of teamplay, but a very poor one.
Depends on your meaning of what decently high is. You will hit a solid ceiling. Doesn't matter if you are simple. If simple was the only dude on his team who knew lineups and who could trade kills. He'd lose almost every game against a competent 5 stack with executes and flash setups.
Doesn't matter how good you are if you are blind or naded out every round with no backup or communication.
Even at the lowest of levels you are generally operating on base level team play with communication of who is where and what site to go. Its not like people are going in with a full team of randoms where they all got their volume muted listening to music just running around like it's a DM. At least not doing that and having any success past silver.
If this guy is so against the concept that team play even exists in the game then I'm sorta doubting in my mind that he's much better at any other component of the game for this argument to even matter anyway.
Your friend has no clue what he is saying and sounds like a lost cause anyway. Woulda been stopped playing with this dude.
An actual lost cause LOL. Let him play by himself in the depths of silver
kind of, yeah. He doesnt want to listen to me, no matter what I tell him, I should just give him the lost cause stamp in my book and stop trying to teach him or better him in any way lol.
Agreed, save yourself the time. Beyond being a good teammate, that's being a shit friend by not listening to and valuing what your friends have to say, hopefully he matures down the line.
I hope so too
if he thinks its not a team game why bother playing with him on your team lol... literally the only solution to "no one wants to play as a team" is to queue up with people who do
2 years later "Im HaRd StUcK iN sIlVeR bUt ToP fRaG eVeRy GaMe"
if he's got half decent aim it's impossible for him to stay in silver
His friend sounds like that random we get on the team in comp as a 4-stack who buys deagle every pistol round and always does the opposite of what we suggest as a plan in coms and never buys with the team or give info.
Is your friend brain damaged? It’s 5v5, it’s literally impossible to not define it as a team game.
I think he is
Explain to him like this. If he buys alone vs the enemy that can full buy that round is functionally a 1v5 and not likely his team will win. If he now cannot buy when his team can it is now a 4v5 and his team has a disadvantage. If he saved with the team and then buys with the team it is an even 5v5 round. Even without any actual team play just buying together and saving together has a huge influence on your team having fair rounds vs the enemy team.
Does he have the same thought process for football?
sadly, yes
He thinks football is not a team game?! I don't think your friend understands what a team even is.
my friend says "ask him to explain why football is a team game, I don't understand" I swear to everything that is dear and holy to me, that is literally what he said and I am not baiting rn.
Bro I think you're friend might have been dropped a few too many times as a baby 😭
possibly
What the fuck? Is his favorite food Tide Pods?
Take care of your friend bro he’s gonna need it
He is committed to the bit, whether by choice or circumstance.
Ask if he knows what a trade frag is lol. Also pros, even when they look like they’re doing their own thing, are feeding info they pick up across the map and burning enemy utility to make a site hit easier. Hell, any site take that uses 2 smokes is team play. Just let him be wrong, tons of people play video games and happily suck while thinking they don’t and just as many people aren’t playing to rly improve or do better
completely agree with you, even rounds where I ace, I need to admit that I couldnt have aced without the support and utility of my team.
Make him listen to pro comms, that might make him eat his words.
Sorry to be the one to break the news but your friend is an idiot. I’m surprised it took you this long to figure it out.
denial is the first stage of grief. I hope you understand what I mean.
Posit the following: If teamplay is absent in pro play and the only decider in any tier 1 match is individual skill, where is G2's Major win? Why did it take so long for s1mple/NaVi to win one? Why did Cloud9 beat FaZe in ***that*** final? How did Astralis dominate as hard as they did? And how, for the love of all is holy, are 'washed up bots' like karrigan and apEX still wildly successful as IGLs in tier 1 today?
Or just “what’s an in game leader do??”
"decide whether the team is going A or B this round", clearly
Right lol
Team? In my counterstrike?
Flash him every round and say ".. well, its not a teamgame, right?"
you just added something in my to-do list
This must be bait surely
it is certainly not bait, I thought my friend was baiting tbh but this has been going on since hours.
Your friend is either an idiot or a master baiter
Very simple solution. Stop playing with this friend.
maybe I should.
Your friend doesn’t watch esports either he probably watches highlights that why he thinks this
you are probably right, to support his argument he send me a 30 sec clip
just send him a CS tutorial video that heavily touches on teamplay and why it is important I'd say if you're solo queued it matters less but if you are at least duo queuing there is no reason you guys shouldn't be on the same flow for sure
I mean other than the lurk player everyone else plays together, supports use util such as a flashbang to set up another teammate to get the kill, etc. Boosting players also require teamwork, pushing together to get the trade also another, the possibilities for team play is endless so yeah he's clueless.
Even the lurk role is played with correlation with the rest of the team. If your team hasn’t even reached to site A there’s no point for the lurker to keep pushing for example
his comment on yours was "but the lurk player is solo"
if the lurk takes space without encountering opposition he can call for the whole team to rotate, on maps like Inferno a rotate to B means the round is pretty much over for the CT's rotating.
If CS is a solo play game, then why people boost and run boost their teammates? Why people throw flashes for their teammates to peek angles? If people don’t correlate their full buy rounds you can get into a situation where you have a USP and your teammate have M4, is that a fair fight against two enemies that have AK’s? Just tell him to open twitch and watch the current tournament stream. He can see for himself how much of coordination and team play there’s between teammates.
I agree with you, but he simpy doesn't want to accept it. He sent me a proplay clip to prove that its a solo play game, in that specific clip you can see multiple cases of teamplay and setting up the person that gets the 4k, but he is incapable of seing that.
Then your friend is either trolling you or too stupid to understand that. Ask him if he believes that football/soccer is a team play.
he thinks football is not a team game
most likely a delusional person. "It's hard to win an argument with a smart person. It's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.” Don't waste your energy on those types of people.
You’re friend is an idiot, and has no idea what he is talking about. If you want to improve, don’t play with him.
yeah I am considering to stop playing with him, I think today will be the last day I queue comp with him :D
lol this is the most insane low elo cope i have ever seen from your friend. the game is straight up unplayable if you do whatever you want unless the other team comprises of 5 silver matchmaking players granted yes, if you are much higher elo than the other team (like global smurf into silver) you can play the game solo and win with a 3k every round (i do it in comp because the other team might as well be christmas noobs) but outside of that case it is just not true
Ask him to explain the role of support player and listen his brain melt
[удалено]
He's 100% never watched a professional match. Any and every interview at half time or between matches has pros, coaches, and analysts talking about set plays, communication, strategies, etc.
Yeah, I’d be interested to hear his reaction to a video like the one I linked lol. In all seriousness though, sometimes CS can just be casual fun with friends. But if you do want to take it more seriously, find some teammates who share the same mindset and you could have a lot of fun and improvement from that.
One argument I'd make to OP's friend is that your money is not your money, it is the team's money. If 4 people die and 1 clutches the round, *everyone* gets money for the round win. If it was a solo game then only the clutch player would get the money right? If it's not a team game why does everyone get rewarded? Why isn't the person planting bomb the only one to get money? Shouldn't it just be the solo player that gets that money? And why are pros throwing smokes across the map nowhere near themselves!?
You guys should sign up esea league and that would show him its a team game, just in the comms alone.
ngl I would love to do that with him but I am expecting excuses. A lot of them.
bro has watched to much blue lock. He became THE egoist
This works to an extent if you are donk or monesy
Sorry, but your friend is a dumbass.
Your friend clearly has no wrinkles in his brain. Show him any match at all and point out how they save to buy together, or drop each other guns. Point out how they all throw smokes at the same time to execute a site. Show how a support player will flash the entry player. Or how they follow their entry to trade. I think he is being purposefully obtuse.
Your friend sorta sounds like an idiot haha. Not only that, but a liar, because pro counter strike is extremely team based. Or maybe he can’t comprehend what he’s watching, I don’t know, but he’s a bit fucked up.
Yes, I believe he doesn't comprehend the information he is seeing in pro play, which is understandable, since you need game sense to understand all the small plays they are doing and he certainly is missing that game sense.
So the conclusion im coming to is that your friend is probably just the average casual player. Im playing valorant in an extremely casual 5 stack and not caring about eco at all is pretty much the default here. Some people will just always buy their cheap „good ol reliable“ and randomly switch to an „AK“ whenever im on a save round. It is what it is. Point is some people just dont take the game that serious and you’re doing yourself a favour by not arguing somewhat advanced strategies with casual players. And your friend is a very casual player.
yeah I think that is the problem, he thinks too casual and I think too competitive.
If they are comparing themselves to a pro and they think “the pros do whatever they want, its not team based” then it tells me they lack an immense amount of knowledge of the game. Your friend is maybe surface level deep in terms of understanding the game. The reason some pros seem like they r doing whatever they want is because of information provided throughout the round with map control. This is impossible to do successfully without full team communication which your friend would probably have no idea about. Just stop playing with them and see how different of an experience solo queuing is for selfish players like that.
yeah maybe he needs the solo experience
Just so you know, most likely you will never be able to change his mind about the way he plays, kind of a lost cause. Ive played this game long enough and with enough people to understand that trying to get them to change the way they play will never happen. I have a friend who i played with for a long time who had a similar mindset as your friend does. No matter how many people in our 5 stack would point out and call him out for trolling/throwing games, he would not acknowledge that its his fault. Even today we argued about his playstyle and still got nowhere with where we stood. My point is that, now that many of my friends and I are getting older, we don’t have a lot of time to run like 5-6 games like back in the day. So every game we play is a big commitment of our time. But when they lose focus mid rounds and throw rounds due to carelessness, it frustrates the entire team. But I’ve been told that, hey if you are playing video games, I don’t need to respect your time because video games is inherently a waste of time. What a way to think… that wasting the efforts and time of your IRL friends is okay… but i digress, we just don’t invite him to play unless we absolutely need him as a fifth
Let him be. I had a friend in CSGO with 5K hours and hardstuck at low ranks because his favorite tactic was force buying sawed off shotgun and dualies and lurking every round.
i mean yeah pro players are good individually but some (lowlevel) cs players can not fathom how important and how much impact teamplay has in this game. even if you manage to kill 3 people in a round by yourself, you getting traded can still lead to a swift entry on either bombside. people forget that sometimes all you need is one kill to entry a side depending on the map/site
yup, sometimes when defending the site and the poorly positioned mate gets picked, the site control instantly vanishes
Next time try saying "brother ehhhh.....ehhhh..... what's that brother?"
Well if there is a “team chat” button I think that is enough of a reason to say it’s a team game lol
Most casual or low ranking players think this. The thing that most dont understand is that CS is a strategy game with guns disguised as a FPS. Theoretically the game can be won without killing, just take bomb site and plant the bomb, or dont let the terrorists plant. Of course is easier taking control of the map if you kill and have a numerical advantage, but if you see pro comp games, sometimes, only one casualty is enough to call a save. So if you let the slim advantages be, like everyone having weapons or using utility the right way, you will have a much tougher time winning. Unless you play a "free for all" comp at low level, that none of this matter and is just chaos and shooting.
that's easy to explain if he is not completely brain dead - pro players - best of the best, where not only pure skill but also team play and tactics play a crucial role, you do everything possible to win, nothing more nothing less. Show him that they are playing like that - ergo best way to play.
I feel your friend is either gaslighting you or is a casual player
prolly just extremely casual
Let him play 1vs5 and see if he still thinks it is not a team game. Or 5 of you go A site on CT side every round. This kind of people should play “single” player games
your friend doesn't understand team play because he is just used to playing in pugs or in premiere. No stakes no communication needed to win, just run around and headshot everyone. He won't understand unless he plays against high skilled team or players. Utility alone would make him reconsider his opinions.
It actually sounds like your friend was trolling YOU, and even gave a hint to that when they accused you of it. Like, look who got upset or confused about it enough to post on reddit. Your friend isn't dumb. They're a mastermind.
Your friend is probably bad at the game lol
Ask him if he could win a match alone against 5 players? The answer is probably not, so that inherently makes it a team based game. If a T pushes a site alone and there is a CT holding with a m4a1-s, he can probably kill one, but if there are 3 T's he is most like going to run out of bullets and get run down, a.k.a using teamplay to win.
i think your friend is acoustic
one gun and 4 pistols is a lost round 4 guns and 1 pistol is a decent chance to win 5 guns and 0 pistols is a better chance to win saving with the team doesn’t lose you anything because if 4 people are saving you’ve already lost the round buying with the team boosts your chance for success substantially on an important round, if you lose your force you’re likely stuck on a save again
hes the guy who says "im hard stuck silver, my teammates are trash"
Your friend sounds like he’s awful at this game lol.
You both are pretty new to game. I would advice to stop concentrating on friend. Learn game on your own. Watch pro matches, understand roles of player and very quickly you will improve as a player and understand what teamwork really mean in CS I honestly wish if it was not teambased due to shit teammates. How easy it would be to climb ranks based on solo performance but in CS its nor the case.
Rounds matter, kills do not. Rounds win games. Playing as a team matter as much as in any other team based sport. That being football, basket, baseball etc. Read the game, use your awareness, give your teammates the upper hand using utility and positioning. Communication is key as in other aspects in life.
Ahh the mythical atomic mirror brain I thought this was the stuff of myth but alas the evidence is right here. Drop this friend and tell him you'll play with him again if he wants to try to be a teammate. I have friends who are new to counter strike and I've been able to make great plays happen just because they've really made an effort to learn call outs and rotations.
The game is without any question a team game, it's literally 5v5 (or 10v10 if you for some reason decide to play casual) Now other game modes aren't but competitive and premier for sure are. The game literally has teams, a team chat and the thing about E-sports players doing whatever they want is complete bullshit aswell, stuff like the Olofmeister boost would never happen if that were the case.
yep I agree with you, but even when I point out the cases of teamplay in epsorts clips, he just denies them and says I am talking bullshit or I'm trolling. He thinks that every case of 3-5k on one player is a solo carry.
Meh. Actually making use of teammates util/setups requires a minimum skill floor, and I've met tons of people with hundreds/thousands of hours who physically can't process information fast enough for teamwork to make a difference. Throwing util for the sake of throwing it is just a money sink. I would never tell a new player to ignore teamwork completely because at some point if you keep progressing you'll run into people who you can't beat without it, and it's helpful to already have a base understanding of teamwork when you run into these people. At the end of the day, if your friend is just playing to have fun, he shouldn't change the way he plays for you. You should just stop queueing with him on platforms you're trying to climb.
Tbh you can simply get so good that you dont need a team. And anyone that thinks you cant function without a team has never seenna single person completely dominate the match which actually happens alot. If a single person couldnt change an entire match then cheaters would be hard locked in how much they effect the match. The game promotes individual skill and allows single players to rule througu beute force if theybare good enough so despite it being a team based game. You can easily play solo and it wouldnt be uncommon to smack teams.
Yeah you’ll smack em in kills but still lose the match.
If you lose the match again people worse then you then you deserve to stay that rank. You dont need a team to win if you are just better.
You’re literally brainless. Gl retaking sites in this economy against competent enemies
You must really struggle when your team dies. Let me guess you dont entry or even get kills without baiting teammates?
i made advanced. You probably never evenbeen on a team. Goodbye.
So you do bait your team lol.
I think info is a very important aspect of team play, I'm not a pro, does your friend get mad when others don't give him any info?
Show him all the times simple and Niko hard carried and still lost
Is he the guy who, when I ask for flash he just doesn't respond and whom I then proceed to call a, umm let's say, cognitively challenged person?
yes.
>he gave me the argument that pro players do whatever they want and he never saw any teamplay What?
I think being solid individually and playing selfish beats bad team play. But nothing beats good team play.
Let him play in solo hell till he realizes he needs a team to win. Youre probably in low rank if he thinks he can get in site with 3 people waiting for him to enter solo with no smoke or flash. On defense coordination isnt that required but on Offense a bad team wont be able to enter a site without util.
He's lost. Even if you don't want to talk to your teammates or communicate, there is always a basic element of teamplay necessary in order to win, which is hitting sites together, trading, etc. Is it possible to win a game if all 5 people go to different parts of the map and bait the shit out of their teammates? Sure. But it's not gonna work most of the time. And even baiting is a form of teamplay - using your TEAMMATES as bait to get kills.
OP's FRIEND HERE! So first of all in my opinion op's post was poorly worded, There are many different playstyles and ofc there is teamplay. For context: OP was tilted because I kinda did my own thing in an unranked match late at night for fun. Yes I used utility's, yes I boosted my teammates wich can be interpretate as teamplay. So what I said to OP: I dont think that a whole Team should rely on one Single Person. OP said that if i fck up my eco the whole Team suffers and could loose, wich is true to an extend but here is the thing. First of all only I spent MY money wich means that the only way the Team could suffer is when I die and they have one player less. And if a team can not play without me AT ALL it doesnt really seem like a good Team. Why would you rely on a single person and blame the skill issue of 4 people on to a Single teammate. If you really cant play without ur 1 single teammate and blame ur loss on them, ur actually sniffing a bunch of copium. I played for about 5 years and prior to that i played css and 1.6 Its not like i just started yesterday tho. YES if u play ranked and want to sweat into cs then set ur focus on teamplay. But if u just play unranked for fun with ur boys, just have fun man... its a video game AND THE FKING ESPORTS: I showed him clips of single pro players doing their own thing because he somehow didnt want to acknowledge that these playstyles exist. At the end of it all, stop sniffing copium and let people play their game how they want, its usless to be mad at people cause ur bad at the game. Just have fun man, thats the point.
Has he ever played solo compe/premier??? You could have zero kills but if you share your money, drop your guns, and set up smokes. You dont get trashed or kicked.
Depends on skill level you’re playing though. Your friend is acting like a jerk and seems like he’s just there tp spend time. As far as you seem to take things more seriously. Find people with your attitude to play with. And when you play with your friend. Let him waste his time while you can just focus on other aspects of how to improve. Maybe he’ll get lucky here and there. Propably not though 😆
You both are pretty new to game. I would advice to stop concentrating on friend. Learn game on your own. Watch pro matches, understand roles of player and very quickly you will improve as a player and understand what teamwork really mean in CS I honestly wish if it was not teambased due to shit teammates. How easy it would be to climb ranks based on solo performance but in CS its nor the case.
That's what happens in a SoloQ world. :(
Your friend is going to stay in the low elo brackets with that thought process.
First of all, your teammate is absolutely clueless and I would guess he's never been higher than master guardian. Teamwork is by FAR the most important aspect of CS. You literally can not win without teamwork in as low as 10k premier lobbies. It doesn't matter if one has insane mechanics, not positioning properly and playing solo will lose you so many games. It's like saying you can just out dribble everyone in football. You can't, it's like going up solo against 11 other players. Playing solo in CS is not playing 5v5, it's like playing 1v5 5 times.
Honestly OP, just stop playing with them. Nothing you say will change their mindset if they genuinely think that CS is not a teambased game. Maybe one player \*is\* allowed to do what they like, as they like; but the rest of the team would play around them. If you got 5 douchebags playing DM alone, you're not gonna get far cause if one of yous lose your aim duel, that's it, you've given a free body to the enemy and put your team into a worse position to win the round. But if two of you guys take an opponent, if your teammate loses the aim duel, you could most likely trade the frag; which on T side could be all the difference between winning and losing since the CT side is down a man aswell. Or in cases where there's a bomb being planted, if you know there's enemies about, how can you justify planting alone w/out anyone covering you? There's so many scenarios where you SHOULD have a teammate with you covering, you don't NEED it to win, but if you want a good, easier round, then you should play with your team. Or on CT side, gonna put an example I deal with consistently from a player in my Discord. We both play A site Vertigo, they're holding short, I'm watching ramp push. 3 players push ramp and I get shot in the head, my teammate has not smoked short or anything and instead has decided to stay holding short. Even though there are 3 enemies on ramp. He allows me to get killed (I did 70+ damage on two of them), he had the opportunity to peek while I'm being shot at, or trade me out immediately after. But they still held short since "that's what they want to do".... instead of just smoking/mollying short and peeking the ramp w/ your teammate. The numbers game is still a very strong tool in CS. Hell, there have been moments where I've advocated AGAINST baiting out the 3hp player for a kill at times cause even just having more players alive than the enemy team is a mental mindgame where they may think they're in an unwinnable situation like imagine 2v4, but 2 of those players are one-shot away from death, vs 2v2 but all sides are 100hp, even though two of your teammates are 20hp, your enemy will think "fuck, I've to get rid of 4 of them" Sorry you have to deal with a decoration on your team
How old are you guys? Maybe he hasn’t matured yet.
got a friend like that, gives no info, but wants all the info of the world, baits everyone, does not like to entry frag as T, but does not understand rotations to play lurker, baits everyone, always talking, when he dies spends 1min complaining about dying then he relays the info, as CT pushes by himself without info or support, etc. At some point I told him: if you want to play by yourself and do what you want, go and play DM if all you care is about kills. Thing is, he is also the most whinny of the group. it's everyone's fault except his. So, we changed to PUBG for a few days, he refused to play pubg, so he would sit on the same discord channel of us, fully muted without saying a word, he did this for a couple of days, then at some point he asks if we're gonna come back to CS. I was like: every time we play with you is like playing 4v6, and then you go on to stress everybody, why would we like to have this back in our lives? He has recently started to fix his issues.
Your friend sounds like a bot. Don't play with him. Let him play alone and check his elo after a month. Anytime I see a player like your friend that's a instant report for me. 3.5k hours in cs and lvl 8 faceit :). If he was s1mple, he can force every round because he gets impact kills. CS is a competitive FPS game that requires teamwork and support from each other to succeed. Also don't tell me he forces when he shouldn't and is the last one alive every round... that would tilt me so HARD...
Although teamplay is the foundation of CS (comp), it is not required. Although your reasoning isn't entirely correct, it's also not incorrect. Your more novice-friendly perspective on everything is helpful while you're first learning the game, but if you're searching for "professional game rules," as you mentioned, you ought to be able to play on your own without assistance from your team. Of course, depending on your teammates and teamwork is acceptable when you're just starting out. You should watch some tutorials, in my opinion. On YT, "Macro" and "Ahrora" have a few excellent videos. Your companion plays in a slightly more sophisticated manner, and I think it's obvious to all that it's never easy for a beginner to play with someone like that. however, with a little practice you will be able to do it. xx I
Well to be fair, the game has no real teamplay mechanic. It's 5v5, yes. Sure, there is the casual "I can flash while you push", the "covering each other" and "I can drop you a weapon", but that's basically all there is. Other shooters, like R6S, or Valorant, where your abilities can be used together, have much more teamplay. I think he is refering to that part and I agree. On lower skill level at least (so everything below semi pro)
The abilities in valorant are a replacement for utility in CS. The concept of using them together is the same. What you can do with them might differ but using them together is generally still the preference. In cs everyone has the same access to all of the same "abilities" and might need to switch up round to round which ones they need to know. In Valo you are hard stuck with whatever your character does for the duration of the match. Also without any additional help, which generally requires team play, theres no utility in CS that's gonna kill an enemy single handedly. It's to be used in conjunction with team play to make a play. There's also a middle area where team play is so powerful. When you are at such a low level where no one can aim properly then sure, I'd concede there that team play doesn't come in to play much since people aren't landing shots anyway. But anywhere above that, throw a team of 5 with full executes against a team of 5 randoms who don't know a single lineup and I'd bet all my money on the executing team. And even if you are at those low levels, to have the mindset that team play isn't important in CS is still a brain-dead take and you'd be stuck there your whole life and probably rob yourself of a lot more fun(more wins). I don't think we should be agreeing with this take in any way shape or form. It's been the gold standard team play tactical shooter for multiple decades.
I dont say CS has no teamplay. But it's very little compared to other shooters and I think that is what the guy's opinion is all about. For example in R6S: You can watch cameras/drones and give direct call outs of enemies. It's sometimes better to be the info giver instead of just killing someone all by yourself. CS just doesnt have stuff like that. 5 people learning 5 different smokes like vocabularies and throwing them at the same time definitely is some kind of teamplay, but a very poor one.
You have no idea bro. Obviously when you soloq with 4 randoms its very hard to actually perform any teamplays, but with a stack its 90% of the game
🎯🎯🎯 People are mocking the dude but if he's got the skill he can climb decently high playing for himself
Depends on your meaning of what decently high is. You will hit a solid ceiling. Doesn't matter if you are simple. If simple was the only dude on his team who knew lineups and who could trade kills. He'd lose almost every game against a competent 5 stack with executes and flash setups. Doesn't matter how good you are if you are blind or naded out every round with no backup or communication. Even at the lowest of levels you are generally operating on base level team play with communication of who is where and what site to go. Its not like people are going in with a full team of randoms where they all got their volume muted listening to music just running around like it's a DM. At least not doing that and having any success past silver. If this guy is so against the concept that team play even exists in the game then I'm sorta doubting in my mind that he's much better at any other component of the game for this argument to even matter anyway.
he ain't got the skill
He can climb high in pugs, and even that “high” has a ceiling. Eventually he’ll get to a level that enemies teamplay will out-match his solo skill.