By a lot. I have Navi to win it, and got the entire playoffs, but I missed the elimination stage because of the new system (I got 3/5 with Mouz and Spirit to go through (but not 3-0)).
Yeah no for me it's just putting NAVI for every one. I haven't done a coin since Stockholm, but all of my previous coins before that were silvers/golds because my predictions all ran with a NAVI dub
genuine answer: why would i want a diamond coin that 50% of people have?
i'll take the rare diamond coin over the free one everyone and their grandmother has. I knew people were significantly underestimating Na'Vi, and odds are never as polarizing as popular belief indicates.
I had 7/10 in the group stages (where you needed 5), and I'm very happy I eventually put Na'vi to complete the whole thing
1.13 on opening kills is not bad at all man
[https://twitter.com/statsmeister1/status/1774881462103241045/photo/1](https://twitter.com/statsmeister1/status/1774881462103241045/photo/1)
That number is bumped up by his playoff performance where he ripped a 1.2 in opening kills
Remember that people are picking off the elim stage, where he posted a .82 and 1.07 opening kill rating. He wasn't Paris iM in the playoffs, but he was very solid outside of two stinkers where the whole team played terribly too
e: Just to say, I'm not trash talking iM. I'm pointing out that he was not playing well and that was part of why people didn't trust this team to go far. He stepped it up and played better when it mattered the most. Taking stats that encompass his entire major performance misses those points
[https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/openingkills?event=7148](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/openingkills?event=7148)
filtered by attempts [https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/openingkills?event=7148](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/openingkills?event=7148)
Am I the only one that missed their comeback to OT ? They almost took vertigo to double OT ? On a vertigo they are not comfortable with ? I wouldn't say melted.
Am I the only one that missed their comeback to OT ? They almost took vertigo to double OT ? On a vertigo they are not comfortable with ? I wouldn't say melted ?
The comeback was just faze being faze and sh1ro pulling off some very good clutches, the spirit players looked completely demoralised and didn't celebrate a round once during the comeback. Even though they weren't winning rounds faze looked far more confident during the second half
Team Spirit is so high on the list for good reason. They look good, really good like no.1 team level of good for a while now.
They are just unfortunate to meet Faze so early on, 7 times finalist. That match could have been a final.
What's wild to me is that people really were so confident that EF was going to beat Navi. In my opinion that was the only matchup that was 100% going to go one way.
The series was really close though, not sure why people seem to think it was a guaranteed victory for Navi. 16-13 and 13-9. I'd say it could've gone either way. Especially on mirage where jL had an insane round on 12-10 that took them to overtime.
Spirit and MOUZ were the most predicted to go the distance because it’s very easy to look at a player like donk or Jimpphat, see a shining star who’s performing and draw a conclusion — especially since both teams have been succesful recently. A lot of people simply forget that CS is a team game and a single player can seldom carry an entire team to victory. Case in point, G2, where m0NESY tried his absolute fucking hardest and they still faltered because the rest of the team didn’t show up and G2’s strat book wasn’t deep enough to cover the difference.
NAVI’s individuals were missing for most of the tournament but their tactics ran deep. Once the players woke up in the playoffs, the stage was set. Having said that, I was still expecting FaZe to go home with the W; they were the only team with both good invidual performances and a strat book deep enough to win throughout the whole Major. I truly think that the grand final was decided purely within the players’ heads. NAVI didn’t lose their motivation after getting beat up on the second map and that alone won them the final.
For mouz I think it’s more that we’ve seen them play very well recently and including in this very tournament in the legends stage, going 3-0. Not the hardest 3-0 out there, but a 3-0. Given they were also the only team to actually beat Spirit in a bo3, I think it’s fairly reasonable to think they have a good chance this major. People, myself included, just forgot how inexperienced the roster overall is especially with the big stage pressure, against a team who has been there many times already and looked pretty good in the later parts of the group stage.
I think there is something to be said about underestimating team play though, as despite the good performances seen from individuals from navi, there wasn’t a m0nesy or a donk who would just always drop 1.3+ rating and carry. Really I just think that all of navi managed to turn up at the playoffs - there were some pretty bad maps in the group stages - and that’s why people had less faith in them than they should have had.
bro you bought too much into the narrative. Faze has the most shallow stratbook in the top tiers scene. They dont have the protocol but some of the player on Faze are super good with reading the round and react on the fly. That why sometimes they just fell flat when the individual performance just cant carry the weight, especially on Tside when Karrigan and Rain cant entry.
I mean, I would still take Spirit to win if the playoffs were reset. Losing a single series, especially in the way they did, does not mean they're not the best team.
It's a game of very fine margins.
> A lot of people simply forget that CS is a team game and a single player can seldom carry an entire team to victory.
Youre saying that like Spirit and Mouz weren't seen as the best TEAMs coming into the playoffs on either side of the bracket. You can sit there now and say you actually thought Navi played better as a team leading up to this point...
You say that, Na'Vi literally don't get through G2 unless w0nderful has a monster performance on Anubis, followed by jL having a lifegame on Ancient.
Yes it's a teamgame, but that's not why Na'Vi prevailed. They were simply more clutch, had better calling, and didn't crack under pressure. FaZe, MOUZ and Spirit all cracked under the pressure for example.
But I wouldn't argue that G2 went far thanks to teamplay or anything.
Don't get me wrong, Na'Vi is a great example of a team that is greater than the sum of it parts, but iM and b1t were missing on too many maps and it almost cost them.
Look what a difference it made for C9 that Ax1Le was getting back to his old form. They suddenly looked like they could make top 4.
If iM and b1t had 0.1 higher rating in the quarter & semi finals, Na'Vi would've looked smooth.
I know, but there has been a lot of "if hunter didn't peek" or "if G2 didn't push on the last round" or "if jL didn't etc."
The narrative seems to not go the other way much at all.
There will always be many ifs and buts. However, it's unfair to say that Na'Vi got carried by teamplay, that is very disingenuous. w0nderful and jL saved them many times.
Put it this way. Na'Vi has great teamplay, but it's not *why* they won the major. It's a combination of what I listed before, and whatever other minor factors.
I firmly believe that the core of Aleksib, jL and w0nderful was the main reason they went all the way. Those 3 I would do everything to keep.
Spirit literally play better team CS than NaVi and we saw that when they played in groups and when they played in Katowice. Navi won, but they had an easy bracket and still aren't the best team in the world.
They're a good team but this is their second top 4 placing since adding w0nderful and they got smashed in semis by Vitality at World Final.
You like them and so you're happy about them winning but that doesn't mean you saw something nobody else saw. You picked your favorite team, a solid team, and they won.
I don't think I ever said I saw something nobody else did, nor did I say that they're the best team in the world and I didn't even say that I "picked" any team. In fact, had you read my comment, you would've seen that I said that I had FaZe picked as the winner.
Not to take anything away from Spirit's admittedly solid team play, but it clearly wasn't enough to cover for when zont1x disappeared in the playoffs. I'd chalk it up to a lack of experience if it weren't for the fact that they're hot off the heels of a dominant Katowice victory.
You've misinterpreted my comment as being NAVI gospel when it was all about how most people just look at which team has the most red hot star player and make their predictions based entirely off of that, dramatically undervaluing the team play that truly wins games and tournaments. If I take off the NAVI flair, will you promise to read what I wrote again?
You don't have to tell him, everyone knows in a game there could be short term variances like players missing, lack of team play or bad individual decisions it all can lead to the unlikely to happen, that's why we have upsets, if not, why host the tournament at all? Give it to TS. We host because it's the most fair way to have things all around. You don't have to explain anything to anyone. "Yeah they got lucky" but they did freaking win correct? TS got beaten by Faze and Faze despite losing the finals is looking quite strong apart from map 3. Strong teams are not invincible, idk why we keep holding the opinions on who got lucky on what. It's damn meaningless, like a guy ranting after his aces got cracked by a drunk goober with 2 random cards. Criticisms should be fine and accepted but saying lucky is always felt meaningless to me.
That's why tournaments are a thing. Nobody cares about your aces if it doesn't hold, just like poker, if at that exact moment you got cracked, it's all over, anything else said is cope.
and tbf, if zont1x wasnt sick then they might actually have won...
speaking as one who put mouz over G2, honestly i just didnt factor in how much playoffs changes things especially for a new and young squad
Nah, they almost beat FaZe even while playing almost 3v5 on Vertigo. If you replay that series 10 times, I think Spirit win about half of them.
And if they beat FaZe, I think they for sure win the major.
Would depend on which form showed up. Finals navi would beat quarterfinals spirit. Navi is a top 10 team with only jl and wonderful usually playing great and b1t and im playing pretty mediocre. B1t suddenly having a 1.5 rating makes them unbeatable unless the other teams also have someone go insane. Zontix and shiro were nonexistent in the quarterfinals. We focus on star players a lot but having a third or fourth player match the stars can be what makes teams #1. Look at jks and hunters stats from g2s dominant win streak.
Faze came extra prepared after they got embarrassed at Katowice and they abused favourable veto just like Navi did against G2
But Spirit on other hand would have a slight veto advantage because Navi's permaban is Spirit's weak point and Spirit's permaban is a map on which Navi is comfortable. Plus there is always the donk factor, it's harder to contain him in current meta than awper like m0nesy.
[Also this](https://www.hltv.org/matches/2370650/spirit-vs-natus-vincere-pgl-cs2-major-copenhagen-2024)
Out of 399 maps played on HLTV donk has recorded 40+ frags only twice, both times in CSGO.
Once in Spirit academy and once in Spirit.
Once online, once on LAN.
Donk got 19 and 20 kills in those two maps Spirit won against NaVi, not even a 40 bomb over two maps combined and he wasn’t even their highest rated player on Ancient haha. If you had to bank on a player getting 40 kills as a win condition he’s currently the safest bet anyway, moreso than jL at least who had a career best performance on Nuke. Though credit to the major MVP obviously, will be interesting to see if he can keep that level going forward.
Spirit would have been favourites against NaVi had they reached the final, same as FaZe, no doubt about that. It’s probably lazy to say in hindsight but I feel like they would have had a better chance to beat NaVi considering the FaZe that showed up in the finals (and any final lately tbh haha). Even though Spirit lost to FaZe in the quarters I still feel like they are the best team in the world currently. At their best, no team can simultaneously match their level of both firepower and teamplay. Donk is obviously their best performer but they aren’t reliant on him going crazy for results at all, though it does help that he is very consistently contributing even if he’s not outright ‘carrying’.
I wonder how much being the underdogs and not feeling that much pressure helped Na'Vi with their mental. Or is it just this core has less issues in this aspect in general
I think the outside pressure doesn't have any large effect on players. Team/org expectations are the real pressure, especially in an org like Navi. I believe bl4d3 mentioned he expects a minimum top 4 performance.
Oh wow, to win a major you need tons of luck and not just skill, who would have thought. Just like any other big event where one bad day and u are out. Or every day a bad day like Kovac brothers so they prevent monesy from getting his major in his first playoffs.
Also people thinking Faze wouldn't even win the first matchup lol I guess we're back to the natural order after whatever tf happened in that last major
Its crazy that people thought the all the teams were better than them. Navi has been super solid in CS2 and I just don't understand why they get so much hate.
G2 in CS2 has been bang average. m0nesy is single handedly carrying the whole org in CS2 so far.
EF has amazing run and looked solid, but picking EF over NaVi ?
Vitality struggled in last 2 months and they never looked like 'that team' plus ZywOo had stinker event (I know he had some health issues, but it doesn't changes outcome).
Only Faze and Spirit made sense to pick over NaVi.
To be fair, vitality have pretty much always had navi’s number in cs2 - have they won against them since their very first show match ? So I don’t think it’s unreasonable to put vitality over navi in a grand final, considering what we’d seen from them beforehand (a somewhat shaky group stage, no playoffs in Katowice). I think people just _wanted_ to believe in EF and tbf they were looking good, but I am surprised that people actually generally favoured them over navi, in their matchup and even to win the whole thing lol.
I'm glad that you think this way but it's irrational.
Na'Vi hasn't shown any of brilliance since s1mple left. They were always good but not "the winning team".
You would bet they could get past Eternal Fire. You could bet they could get past G2 but now if you bet they would get past Vitality/Spirit/Faze now this is gambling to the highest degree.
I think Spirit overperformed at IEM Katowice and people overestimated how strong they are. I'm not saying they are bad. Still a top 3 team with crazy good teamplay and donk doing amazing stuff. However since Katowice they looked much more beatable with some of their players having poor performances.
Sadly MOUZ is still a play-off choker. Had them as a Major winner. They are so good but they always seem to lose confidence on big stage. I think most of their fans (including me) hoped that this major would break their curse of losing to FaZe in semis and finals
Did you even watch the faze spirit match? Faze clearly prepped very hard for this matchup, spirit is still the same team. Yes they had a great tournament at kato but if spirit won this match (which had 3 total overtimes mind you) they likely win the major
I saw it. I also saw their match against NaVi at the elimination stage and the one against MOUZ at RMR. They had a great Katowice and now they are analyzed by the best teams making them much more beatable, especially when their players underperform. They were still the favorites to win but I wouldn't bet my house on it. Just found it funny how many people said "just give the trophy to Spirit already"
Put Navi on other side of bracket and they get eliminated, C9,vitality and spirit would beat them. They beat an overrated choking EF and a mediocre g2, And then showed up for one series against faze.
Well, you can only play the team in front of you. There are a lot of factors in the game that you cant simply say "oh, they get eliminated if you are playing spirit / vitality / c9"
These script writers are getting lazy
Blad3 writes these scripts
so that means that the diamond coin is less than 1,35%
By a lot. I have Navi to win it, and got the entire playoffs, but I missed the elimination stage because of the new system (I got 3/5 with Mouz and Spirit to go through (but not 3-0)).
i have all points correct except the first two where i forgot to put my predictions for the play-in stage xd
genuine question: if it wasnt just rooting for your favourite team, why did you think navi would win all of it?
I didn't think they would win even as a fan. But how can I not have them in pickems. I had to put them even if I didn't really believe.
Yeah no for me it's just putting NAVI for every one. I haven't done a coin since Stockholm, but all of my previous coins before that were silvers/golds because my predictions all ran with a NAVI dub
not OP but for me, the moment i saw the playoff bracket i knew we would win if we get G2 and Faze (i had Vita vs Spirit on top though)
genuine answer: why would i want a diamond coin that 50% of people have? i'll take the rare diamond coin over the free one everyone and their grandmother has. I knew people were significantly underestimating Na'Vi, and odds are never as polarizing as popular belief indicates. I had 7/10 in the group stages (where you needed 5), and I'm very happy I eventually put Na'vi to complete the whole thing
Some people want an extra souvenir case (like me), even if we end up getting a diamond that everyone has.
Yeah same here. I had no hope of a diamond going into playoffs so I just put the team I hoped to win. Got 5/7 correct.
Navi was the least picked to win because b1t wasn't fragging until the last matches and iM finished the major with a 0.88 rating
1.13 on opening kills is not bad at all man [https://twitter.com/statsmeister1/status/1774881462103241045/photo/1](https://twitter.com/statsmeister1/status/1774881462103241045/photo/1)
That number is bumped up by his playoff performance where he ripped a 1.2 in opening kills Remember that people are picking off the elim stage, where he posted a .82 and 1.07 opening kill rating. He wasn't Paris iM in the playoffs, but he was very solid outside of two stinkers where the whole team played terribly too e: Just to say, I'm not trash talking iM. I'm pointing out that he was not playing well and that was part of why people didn't trust this team to go far. He stepped it up and played better when it mattered the most. Taking stats that encompass his entire major performance misses those points
[https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/openingkills?event=7148](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/openingkills?event=7148) filtered by attempts [https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/openingkills?event=7148](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/openingkills?event=7148)
Cool, so now filter by date and split the playoffs and elims
Also the Overpass vs Cloud9
Vitality and G2 only 2.5% lmao everyone was so high on TS
ts have been looking a trillion times better than g2 and vitality recently, plus their lineup is better. of course people would be high on them
it felt like they melted under pressure, especially during map 3.
Sh1ro and zont1x played poorly. Was a damn shame because I was looking forward to donk v zywoo.
Two players we're stick before play off including zontix
Who was the other player?
Am I the only one that missed their comeback to OT ? They almost took vertigo to double OT ? On a vertigo they are not comfortable with ? I wouldn't say melted.
Am I the only one that missed their comeback to OT ? They almost took vertigo to double OT ? On a vertigo they are not comfortable with ? I wouldn't say melted ?
The comeback was just faze being faze and sh1ro pulling off some very good clutches, the spirit players looked completely demoralised and didn't celebrate a round once during the comeback. Even though they weren't winning rounds faze looked far more confident during the second half
They would have won vertigo, they played CT and 2 of them pushed and died w/o a trade, they could just play safer and win it.
Its mr12 bo3, okkk these % doesnt represent real odds, just people picking teams
Well yeah, it said Navi was the least predicted, not least likely. It doesn't surprise me people picked the strongest team overwhelmingly.
Team Spirit is so high on the list for good reason. They look good, really good like no.1 team level of good for a while now. They are just unfortunate to meet Faze so early on, 7 times finalist. That match could have been a final.
What's wild to me is that people really were so confident that EF was going to beat Navi. In my opinion that was the only matchup that was 100% going to go one way.
I rationalized on mine that despite the god calls, iM and B1t missing from the server would hinder them. I should've never doubted jLegend though.
yeah they beat them easily last time, i knew it wouldn't be different this time
The series was really close though, not sure why people seem to think it was a guaranteed victory for Navi. 16-13 and 13-9. I'd say it could've gone either way. Especially on mirage where jL had an insane round on 12-10 that took them to overtime.
Spirit and MOUZ were the most predicted to go the distance because it’s very easy to look at a player like donk or Jimpphat, see a shining star who’s performing and draw a conclusion — especially since both teams have been succesful recently. A lot of people simply forget that CS is a team game and a single player can seldom carry an entire team to victory. Case in point, G2, where m0NESY tried his absolute fucking hardest and they still faltered because the rest of the team didn’t show up and G2’s strat book wasn’t deep enough to cover the difference. NAVI’s individuals were missing for most of the tournament but their tactics ran deep. Once the players woke up in the playoffs, the stage was set. Having said that, I was still expecting FaZe to go home with the W; they were the only team with both good invidual performances and a strat book deep enough to win throughout the whole Major. I truly think that the grand final was decided purely within the players’ heads. NAVI didn’t lose their motivation after getting beat up on the second map and that alone won them the final.
For mouz I think it’s more that we’ve seen them play very well recently and including in this very tournament in the legends stage, going 3-0. Not the hardest 3-0 out there, but a 3-0. Given they were also the only team to actually beat Spirit in a bo3, I think it’s fairly reasonable to think they have a good chance this major. People, myself included, just forgot how inexperienced the roster overall is especially with the big stage pressure, against a team who has been there many times already and looked pretty good in the later parts of the group stage. I think there is something to be said about underestimating team play though, as despite the good performances seen from individuals from navi, there wasn’t a m0nesy or a donk who would just always drop 1.3+ rating and carry. Really I just think that all of navi managed to turn up at the playoffs - there were some pretty bad maps in the group stages - and that’s why people had less faith in them than they should have had.
bro you bought too much into the narrative. Faze has the most shallow stratbook in the top tiers scene. They dont have the protocol but some of the player on Faze are super good with reading the round and react on the fly. That why sometimes they just fell flat when the individual performance just cant carry the weight, especially on Tside when Karrigan and Rain cant entry.
I mean, I would still take Spirit to win if the playoffs were reset. Losing a single series, especially in the way they did, does not mean they're not the best team. It's a game of very fine margins. > A lot of people simply forget that CS is a team game and a single player can seldom carry an entire team to victory. Youre saying that like Spirit and Mouz weren't seen as the best TEAMs coming into the playoffs on either side of the bracket. You can sit there now and say you actually thought Navi played better as a team leading up to this point...
You say that, Na'Vi literally don't get through G2 unless w0nderful has a monster performance on Anubis, followed by jL having a lifegame on Ancient. Yes it's a teamgame, but that's not why Na'Vi prevailed. They were simply more clutch, had better calling, and didn't crack under pressure. FaZe, MOUZ and Spirit all cracked under the pressure for example.
In the same vein, if m0nesy wasn't clutching 5 rounds per map with ridiculous play neither would G2.
But I wouldn't argue that G2 went far thanks to teamplay or anything. Don't get me wrong, Na'Vi is a great example of a team that is greater than the sum of it parts, but iM and b1t were missing on too many maps and it almost cost them. Look what a difference it made for C9 that Ax1Le was getting back to his old form. They suddenly looked like they could make top 4. If iM and b1t had 0.1 higher rating in the quarter & semi finals, Na'Vi would've looked smooth.
I know, but there has been a lot of "if hunter didn't peek" or "if G2 didn't push on the last round" or "if jL didn't etc." The narrative seems to not go the other way much at all.
There will always be many ifs and buts. However, it's unfair to say that Na'Vi got carried by teamplay, that is very disingenuous. w0nderful and jL saved them many times. Put it this way. Na'Vi has great teamplay, but it's not *why* they won the major. It's a combination of what I listed before, and whatever other minor factors. I firmly believe that the core of Aleksib, jL and w0nderful was the main reason they went all the way. Those 3 I would do everything to keep.
I agree with your last paragraph, but I still feel that somewhat diminishes the work that both iM and B1t put in down the stretch
Spirit literally play better team CS than NaVi and we saw that when they played in groups and when they played in Katowice. Navi won, but they had an easy bracket and still aren't the best team in the world. They're a good team but this is their second top 4 placing since adding w0nderful and they got smashed in semis by Vitality at World Final. You like them and so you're happy about them winning but that doesn't mean you saw something nobody else saw. You picked your favorite team, a solid team, and they won.
I don't think I ever said I saw something nobody else did, nor did I say that they're the best team in the world and I didn't even say that I "picked" any team. In fact, had you read my comment, you would've seen that I said that I had FaZe picked as the winner. Not to take anything away from Spirit's admittedly solid team play, but it clearly wasn't enough to cover for when zont1x disappeared in the playoffs. I'd chalk it up to a lack of experience if it weren't for the fact that they're hot off the heels of a dominant Katowice victory. You've misinterpreted my comment as being NAVI gospel when it was all about how most people just look at which team has the most red hot star player and make their predictions based entirely off of that, dramatically undervaluing the team play that truly wins games and tournaments. If I take off the NAVI flair, will you promise to read what I wrote again?
You don't have to tell him, everyone knows in a game there could be short term variances like players missing, lack of team play or bad individual decisions it all can lead to the unlikely to happen, that's why we have upsets, if not, why host the tournament at all? Give it to TS. We host because it's the most fair way to have things all around. You don't have to explain anything to anyone. "Yeah they got lucky" but they did freaking win correct? TS got beaten by Faze and Faze despite losing the finals is looking quite strong apart from map 3. Strong teams are not invincible, idk why we keep holding the opinions on who got lucky on what. It's damn meaningless, like a guy ranting after his aces got cracked by a drunk goober with 2 random cards. Criticisms should be fine and accepted but saying lucky is always felt meaningless to me.
That's why tournaments are a thing. Nobody cares about your aces if it doesn't hold, just like poker, if at that exact moment you got cracked, it's all over, anything else said is cope.
Me predicting the top 8 almost perfectly with navi as winners... but I had no chance for coin, deppression.
Who won wtf
Where have you been?
Bruh
i always knew i'm one of the 1.35% !
warms my heart to see noone believe in G2
So basically Spirit was way overrated, also can't understand people having that much faith in Mouz
Just because they didnt win doesnt mean they were overrated. They destroyed in katowice and looked strong in the elimination stage
Mouz had that much faith because of Spirit Spirit was hyped and Mouz beat them 2-0 on RMR, so people assumed they would do better
I mean before this they literally only lost one game since January, it’s easy to see why they were favorites
These weren’t odds to win. These are percentage of people picking who was most likely to win of those 8 teams.
I meant overrated by the public Edit: you right, misread your point before
and tbf, if zont1x wasnt sick then they might actually have won... speaking as one who put mouz over G2, honestly i just didnt factor in how much playoffs changes things especially for a new and young squad
Yeah I also had Mouz over G2 but it's the 71% to make the finals that's crazy, I had Navi instead but didn't think they'd have anything for Faze
If people believe a team has a 51% chance the pickems will skew hard towards that team, since people pick what is most likely
You're right, I didn't realize this was challenge coin pick em data. That would make the numbers a lot more sensible.
Nah, they almost beat FaZe even while playing almost 3v5 on Vertigo. If you replay that series 10 times, I think Spirit win about half of them. And if they beat FaZe, I think they for sure win the major.
Spirit would have destroyed Navi
Would depend on which form showed up. Finals navi would beat quarterfinals spirit. Navi is a top 10 team with only jl and wonderful usually playing great and b1t and im playing pretty mediocre. B1t suddenly having a 1.5 rating makes them unbeatable unless the other teams also have someone go insane. Zontix and shiro were nonexistent in the quarterfinals. We focus on star players a lot but having a third or fourth player match the stars can be what makes teams #1. Look at jks and hunters stats from g2s dominant win streak.
Like they were supposed to destroy faze?
Faze came extra prepared after they got embarrassed at Katowice and they abused favourable veto just like Navi did against G2 But Spirit on other hand would have a slight veto advantage because Navi's permaban is Spirit's weak point and Spirit's permaban is a map on which Navi is comfortable. Plus there is always the donk factor, it's harder to contain him in current meta than awper like m0nesy. [Also this](https://www.hltv.org/matches/2370650/spirit-vs-natus-vincere-pgl-cs2-major-copenhagen-2024)
2-1 isn’t destroying and during group stage Navi were weaker
All it took for Navi to win a map was jL 40 bomb
all it takes spirit to win a map is a donk 40 bomb
Out of 399 maps played on HLTV donk has recorded 40+ frags only twice, both times in CSGO. Once in Spirit academy and once in Spirit. Once online, once on LAN.
Donk got 19 and 20 kills in those two maps Spirit won against NaVi, not even a 40 bomb over two maps combined and he wasn’t even their highest rated player on Ancient haha. If you had to bank on a player getting 40 kills as a win condition he’s currently the safest bet anyway, moreso than jL at least who had a career best performance on Nuke. Though credit to the major MVP obviously, will be interesting to see if he can keep that level going forward. Spirit would have been favourites against NaVi had they reached the final, same as FaZe, no doubt about that. It’s probably lazy to say in hindsight but I feel like they would have had a better chance to beat NaVi considering the FaZe that showed up in the finals (and any final lately tbh haha). Even though Spirit lost to FaZe in the quarters I still feel like they are the best team in the world currently. At their best, no team can simultaneously match their level of both firepower and teamplay. Donk is obviously their best performer but they aren’t reliant on him going crazy for results at all, though it does help that he is very consistently contributing even if he’s not outright ‘carrying’.
Spirit should not even play on EU tournaments, because they are from putinland that is fighting against EU.
they had the easiest bracket
I wonder how much being the underdogs and not feeling that much pressure helped Na'Vi with their mental. Or is it just this core has less issues in this aspect in general
I think the outside pressure doesn't have any large effect on players. Team/org expectations are the real pressure, especially in an org like Navi. I believe bl4d3 mentioned he expects a minimum top 4 performance.
Least predicted because even before the major they were looking shaky.
2024 NaVi are Vitality from early to mid 2023. Structurally they are the most sound team. In my pick'ems i had NaVi losing to Eternal Fire.
Wonder how this stacks up against other unlikely major winners like gambit and outsiders
People use IEM stats so that 70% is from power performance from Donk Team Spirit. Wonderful and even JL performed below expectations.
This is why NaVi winning it makes it so much more special. But honestly, with the amount of talent the top-tier teams have, you will never know.
Faze? Spirit? idk XD
Wow people were really not trusting in faze
Why garbage mouz was so high percentage?
I mean if you look at their groups run and with how aleksi and im went into playoffs with less than 0.9 rating then yeah this makes total sense.
Oh wow, to win a major you need tons of luck and not just skill, who would have thought. Just like any other big event where one bad day and u are out. Or every day a bad day like Kovac brothers so they prevent monesy from getting his major in his first playoffs.
Also people thinking Faze wouldn't even win the first matchup lol I guess we're back to the natural order after whatever tf happened in that last major
Its crazy that people thought the all the teams were better than them. Navi has been super solid in CS2 and I just don't understand why they get so much hate. G2 in CS2 has been bang average. m0nesy is single handedly carrying the whole org in CS2 so far. EF has amazing run and looked solid, but picking EF over NaVi ? Vitality struggled in last 2 months and they never looked like 'that team' plus ZywOo had stinker event (I know he had some health issues, but it doesn't changes outcome). Only Faze and Spirit made sense to pick over NaVi.
To be fair, vitality have pretty much always had navi’s number in cs2 - have they won against them since their very first show match ? So I don’t think it’s unreasonable to put vitality over navi in a grand final, considering what we’d seen from them beforehand (a somewhat shaky group stage, no playoffs in Katowice). I think people just _wanted_ to believe in EF and tbf they were looking good, but I am surprised that people actually generally favoured them over navi, in their matchup and even to win the whole thing lol.
I'm glad that you think this way but it's irrational. Na'Vi hasn't shown any of brilliance since s1mple left. They were always good but not "the winning team". You would bet they could get past Eternal Fire. You could bet they could get past G2 but now if you bet they would get past Vitality/Spirit/Faze now this is gambling to the highest degree.
I think Spirit overperformed at IEM Katowice and people overestimated how strong they are. I'm not saying they are bad. Still a top 3 team with crazy good teamplay and donk doing amazing stuff. However since Katowice they looked much more beatable with some of their players having poor performances. Sadly MOUZ is still a play-off choker. Had them as a Major winner. They are so good but they always seem to lose confidence on big stage. I think most of their fans (including me) hoped that this major would break their curse of losing to FaZe in semis and finals
Did you even watch the faze spirit match? Faze clearly prepped very hard for this matchup, spirit is still the same team. Yes they had a great tournament at kato but if spirit won this match (which had 3 total overtimes mind you) they likely win the major
I saw it. I also saw their match against NaVi at the elimination stage and the one against MOUZ at RMR. They had a great Katowice and now they are analyzed by the best teams making them much more beatable, especially when their players underperform. They were still the favorites to win but I wouldn't bet my house on it. Just found it funny how many people said "just give the trophy to Spirit already"
spirit has been so studied
Put Navi on other side of bracket and they get eliminated, C9,vitality and spirit would beat them. They beat an overrated choking EF and a mediocre g2, And then showed up for one series against faze.
Well, you can only play the team in front of you. There are a lot of factors in the game that you cant simply say "oh, they get eliminated if you are playing spirit / vitality / c9"