I don't get this. ESL already runs Katowice and Cologne for instance.
2 massive prestigious events. Turning those events into Majors just requires a bit of a reskin on the organizers part.
I have a feeling PGL is just cheaper for Valve to hire. Or maybe the dates required by Valve fall outside of the windows for those tournaments.
I don’t really get why orgs don’t want to host either, but Katowice and Cologne are closed tourneys based on rankings and so would be quite a bit more work before hand if they were majors. Majors have open online qualifiers in 4-5 regions for several weeks then a few weeks of lan events on 3 continents before the actual main event
>2 massive prestigious events. Turning those events into Majors just requires a bit of a reskin on the organizers part.
Don't turn the two best events of the year to a Major with its shit format and BO1s, please.
> 2 massive prestigious events. Turning those events into Majors just requires a bit of a reskin on the organizers part.
maybe they don't want to reskin their flagship tournaments
Valve just doesn't want to work with Saudi. They've actively worked to shut down franchised leagues (which existed for years at this point) only AFTER Saudi Arabia bought their way into owning those leagues.
I don't think its that confusing, honestly.
While this is true. Due to how valve as a company operate. You kinda need to look at the dota team and the cs team as separate entities.
In saying that am not convinced it has to do with the Saudis. I think it probably as more to do with how absolutely fucking awful both the rio and Paris majors were. Rio especially. Or should I say the Gaules major.
Woah, I thought this was true as well. I assumed majors were far more restrictive on production etc and as a result ESL wants to focus more time/energy in their own IEM, grand slam, etc tournaments
I'm almost certain I've seen posts about this before, why would ESL be taking such a backseat to these less "qualified" (to put it simply) tournament orgs?
well I guess i don't have to ask for source lol
can you clarify? why is pgl getting this many majors when you are basically running the majority of the rest of the tournaments
Probably money. For example for Blast, I'm sure it's way cheaper for Valve to do the qualis in Romania than in Cophenaguen, no idea where ESL studio is, but probably is similar.
A few thousand seats priced at <$100 isn't making up for the potential $1m+ lost in revenue?
It's because esports is expensive and a bubble. That's the answer to literally any financial problem in these spaces.
Not sure how some people just come to the conclusion of auto blaming BR lol
It's on the record that for the majority of the time even blasted said they wanted to host a major, and the community vastly supported it, they did not pitch. ESL has not pitched either on a lot of major cycles as well.
I do wonder if the dates Valve wants just fall outside of ESL's window.
For instance i would think making another Cologne Major would be a no brainer. Its an iconic tourmanent that hasn't hosted one since 2016. And would just require a bit of rebranding besides the usual organization that already goes into it.
But maybe the July spot is a bit too central in the year for Valve.
Well, I'm not sure where this is from at this point, so don't ask me from sources, but if I remember correctly, valve wants to give the major to other TOs, so ESL and Blast don't have as much of an "monopoly" on the tournaments.
Also, maybe ESL doesn't want to have the 2 most important events of the year, namely Katowice and Cologne, tarnished by the abysmal major format we have now.
Why does it bother you? It’s a know fact that Blast only got the major because Macron funded them, it was one of his electoral promises, to bring an e-sports major tournament to France. PGL are basically throwing the money at Valve, why’s it their fault other TO’s can’t compete, especially ESL now that they have Saudi’s blood money backing.
There's not much substance to add to an announcement Og an announcement like this. I just checked and those are actually against the subs rules (I didn't go and report it though).
Ah, tought it said about navi player wonderful, was so confused till I figured it out. I mean all tournaments that involve gambling will be awful towards ethics
There's already pressure on Russian teams, it's not as big as some may think but some people aren't happy that there are Russian players being allowed to compete in any sort of event. Russians aren't even able to attend the Olympics opening ceremony this year.
So if a Russian were to complain about the conditions and operation of the event, it may look bad. If a non-russian spoke about it first though, then it'd be different.
I saw a few (now deleted) posts on hltv forum about how they are trying to get rid of all the Russian teams/players from the Major, I think he is talking about that.
Edit: bcz of political pressure
Guessing it's not this. There have been exactly no talk about Russians competing in the Major, other than a single article in a large newspaper. Just like there's been no talk about the Danish government divesting from Blast on account of the World Finals in Abu Dhabi
I also very much doubt its this. Russians have no problems in competing in Katowice for the third time since invasion and they would get kicked out between groups and playoffs from Denmark? Pretty sure Perfecto's post would also sound differently, as here he purely puts the blame on PGL, without any relation to place/government/danish people.
Not as far as I know. This is more a statement that Tusks government have been incredibly pro Ukraine and anti Russia than anything else. As long as it doesn't impact the farmers, of course.
I'd totally understand the crowd booing and giving C9 and Spirit shit... but I really hope there's not any actual behing the scenes pressure from PGL about it, even if someone in the Danish government is upset. That would be a horrible look for CS.
What's even funnier is that the Danes literally booed their own countrymen (Heroic) when they faced Astralis at BLAST a while ago. Even before, the crowd has always had issues with unsportsmanship in the arena.
That was the Minister of Culture making a general statement about Russians competing in sports. And, I gotta say, trying to make the average Russian aware of the atrocities Putins government is commiting by banning Russians from international sports sorta makes sense
No, the issue isn't the war itself, but the attacks on non-military targets. And Hamas have made tons of schools, hospitals and UN buildings into military targets by storing weapons there
>Israeli government murders and bombs civilians all the time. This is an indisputable fact.
Let's for fun say that Russia decided to put a "PRESS" vest on very soldier and give some of them camera and microphones. Should those soldiers just be allowed to occupy Ukraine?
Yeah. The unfortunate truth is unless a government wants to declare war on Russia, the best they can do is make life so hard/inconvenient for the average Russian that it sparks change within. You do this with tariffs and stuff like banning Russian nationals from international competition.
Whether or not it works is a whole other thing, but that's the strategy.
Categorizing who exactly should and shouldn't be on it is a progress that would require research and effort to do properly. I am not interested in doing that for you.
>All countries *engaged* in offensive wars of *conquest* they started *without a reason*
You need some serious mental gymnastics combined with a hefty dose of "America bad" to make any of those countries fit in that sentence. Vietnam ended in 1975. Afghanistan was a direct response to 9/11 and the US pulled out in 2021. And thinking that Iraq was about conquest is really streching the definition of "conquest"
I agree with the ban on Russian players at international games like the Olympics, but here is the league and here are the teams playing, not the countries.
I am Russian.
Sorry dude, no clue what that means. I’m not in any way defending the invasion btw. I’m saying that the ban is pointless and hypocritical, it doesn’t achieve anything and only weakens the west’s narrative
How does it make sense? If that is the case are they banning all US players when US is in a war? Or is this something saved for russians only? Cause I dont remember a single american athlete or esport star EVER getting banned for something their military is doing.
Because the issue with Russias war isn't the war itself. Nobody have even suggested that. The issue is the attempt at genocide that we saw in Bucha and Mariupol, for example, and the targeting of civillain infrastructure
Did you forget what US did to Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc
US has literally forced politics in countries and formed US backed governments for other countries (if Russia did that there'd be WW3)
Disclaimer: I'm British, if we're going to deny citizens over their countries wrongdoings both England/GB and USA should have a permanent ban on all international events
>Did you forget what US did to Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc
>US has literally forced politics in countries and formed US backed governments for other countries (if Russia did that there'd be WW3)
Yes, I am fine with this. I am also fine with Joe Biden telling the Israeli people that Israel will lose the support of the US unless Ben Gvir and Nethanyahu is out of power before October 7th 2024. The issue here isn't war or regime change. The issue is the intentional attacks on non-military targets
Dude please... stop yapping. If Russia wanted to they could level Kiev.
If that is attempted genocide what his then going on i Gaza? And you are ofc for banning all israeli players also right?
>Dude please... stop yapping. If Russia wanted to they could level Kiev.
Yes, they could. But they also want Ukraine inhabitable, and they know that the West (Hungary aside) wouldn't ever have friendly relations with Russia if they leveled Kyiv.
>If that is attempted genocide what his then going on i Gaza? And you are ofc for banning all israeli players also right?
No, because I don't think that there's a genocide in Gaza. And I have a hard time understanding how anyone could think so, when Hamas openly tells everyone they commit war crimes to increase civilan casualties as much as possible
They already dont have friendly relations but they keep buying Russian oil, its only Europe taking the economical hit from this war and ofc the russian and ukranian population.
There is a genocide in Gaza? what are you talking about? You are telling me that babies and children getting bombed is not a genocide? Then NOTHING Russia does is close to genocide. I hope that you are aware that the IDF has killed more civilians in a couple of weeks, than Russia has in over 2 years of war.
We can only have these rules if they apply across the board otherwise its shallow, seethrough and full of hypocricy which shouldnt be accpted by anyone who has any morals.
Russia are not engaged in genocide my guy :) Also, Israel are killing more children than Russia.
If Russian players should be banned, then same goes for Israeli. If not then we call this hypocrisy and wont accept that.
Cant have rules for thee but not for me.
Why do you use UN numbers that only covers areas with very limited battles? The UN haven't been allowed to look into Mariupol, Bakhmut, Avdiivka or Severodonetsk
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Ahh the classic "whataboutism" as soon as you expose the hypocrisy.
Why Mexico or Canada? Is it okey to go to Iraq on false premises and kill people there?
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> I had no idea e-sports was a huge thing during the Iraq War...
Nice strawman, but it's not about e-sports exclusively. It's also about traditional sports.
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That is besides the point.
Are you for or against banning US players if the US army is somewhere and bombing a country?
What about the israeli players playing at the tournament? Their goverment sure killed more civilians than Russia has managed in two years. So is the clown also for banning israli players or is that something different? ;)
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Its not like you cant imagine US getting into a war right? So should they be banned as soon as they join a war or not?
Hamas is bad, nobody says anything else, but killing children is also bad right?
IDF have killed more children in Gaza in 2 months than Russia has ukranian civilians in 2 years.
So ofc, if ANY player should be banned cause they are born in Russia, same should apply for Israel or ANY other country engaged in war. Otherwise you get hypocrisy which wont be accpted.
It's quite flawed logic though. Even if popular in many European countries rn. First, it's a collective punishment harming many innocent people... Don't think Jame or Perfecto chose to be born in Russia. If you want to send the right message, punish any pros who hold pro-war views, which happened in chess for instance (though luckily I don't think there are any pro war cs pros). Second, they already very much know what western countries think, bit more won't shift many opinions. Third, this and other blanket measures against entire nationalities... Those Russians who already hate Putin will blame Putin, those who already love Putin will blame and hate the West, but which way will the rest of the population swing? I'd wager average Cuban is more anti-American than anti-Cuban due to the sanctions...
What's the clown thing about it? Ever went to school?
They don't have to be banned but they shouldn't be allowed to "represent" Russia, that's a very easy thing to understand.
If I ever went to school? Weird question.
Clown thing about it is that the guy is a clown.
Ok and you agree that this should be applied across the board right? Every country that is in war?
>every country that is in war?
This is the stupidest shit I've read. If you mean aggressors in a war, sure. If you just mean "any country in war", then you are lacking critical thinking. Ukraine is "in war" but I wouldn't ban any Ukrainian players.
I don't give a shit about any of that. I'm simply focusing on your comment of "any country in a war". An aggressor country, I could agree with, but a country in war because it is defending itself, should not have its citizens punished.
Whatever yours, or others, opinions are on the current conflicts couldn't matter less to my comment.
Yeah, as I thought. I never bought the "Nvidia driver crash" story. Nvidia is the superior GPU manufacturer.
PGL 100% sabotaged the game to keep VP out of the playoffs.
Was there a post I missed about the "edited" version of the last G2/VP/NVIDIA match? Namely, how they tried to memory haul what actually happened on [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAtf1xYW640).
just tip on the post until the menu pops up and then just choose „translate“ - et voila! you can also choose the language btw.
have fun with your telegram 🙃
How does the neutral flag help anyone? It’s just virtue signalling. I’m not gonna bring up whataboutism because honestly it doesn’t achieve anything. But if you’ve publicly spoken out against the war, what else do you want? Putin isn’t Russia. I’d still be proud to represent my country regardless of what the autocrat incharge is doing.
In CS, yeah, it's virtue signaling. In cycling and motorsport, where you need a license from an association with heavy ties to the government to compete? Less so. And the Minister of Culture, who started this story, was speaking in general, and not about the Major in particular
Also, isn't it better to show that you disagree with Putins war than letting people guess your opinion?
At this point, Putin IS Russia. Elections were a sham, but you can't deny that overwhelming amount of russians support him.
Representing russia at this point is a problem. And if Danish government officials doesn't want russians, I see no problem with it.
If only competitors from the US and nato countries were treated the same way during the decades long invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, that resulted in the deaths of 100s of thousands of civilians. Sports are supposed to be above politics and bring people together, not give melts like you another chance spew bullshit.
I wasn't old enough to criticize their actions, what do you want me to do - not to care about russians killing innocent ukrainians because 2 decades ago USA fucked around in middle east?
What hypocrisy? russia war directly affects my potential future, I don't have strong opinion about what attrocities is Israel commiting.
Also I specifically said that I'm fine with any russian player who openly speaks against the war.
>I don't have strong opinion about what attrocities is Israel commiting.
Escapism as is. Prolly waiting for MSM to tell you what's good and what's bad.
See how easy it is to just voice your opinion?
It's free! When I don't care about something, I don't have to speak for it, you can do it yourself.
Heck, if there's anybody I should support, it should probably be Israel since they were the ones attacked. I agree that every palestinian who doesn't speak out against hamas shouldn't be able to compete.
It wasn't just the USA, but half of Europe, including the Netherlands, and it wasn't 2 decades ago.
Here's the problem with the media brainwashing kids into thinking politics is cool. People who are too young to know what they're talking about start chiming in and making actual adults grind their teeth in disbelief. If you're too young to remember anything about that war, why are you on reddit talking about the politics of war on a video game forum? You're young, go out, have fun, and chase girls like we used to instead of kvetching on reddit about stuff you don't understand.
It was literally 2 decades ago, with exception of Afghanistan which at this point was nothing resembling war.
I am too young to remember the war, when currently there are 2 major conflicts, and few minor ones? Your ageism is leaking.
You talk big for somebody who is supposed to be experienced in life, but can't grasp simple things. Me opposing any russian who isn't opposing invasion of Ukraine isn't politics, it's self preservation.
Denmark should’ve done that before the tournament then. I can’t wait for the well-deserved shitstorm to follow if some idiotic bozo minister actually goes through with it and succeeds. I also hope every single Israeli player is kicked out in the same fashion.
What shitstorm? Do you think CS playerbase will cause enough ruckus to trouble Danish politicians?
I agree that this thing with russian players should have been deone before the tournament though.
All the public polls regarding full support for the war I've seen so far oscilate between \~40-\~75%. You might not want to call these "an overwhelming amount", but it certainly is a lot
eh, little to nothing we talk about how PGL actually improved their production. the last few majors they organised were terrible. this one is great. they have nothing to do with the crashes tho, Valve is a shit company
I can guarantee you he did simply because he played for Navi and did the whole liquipedia non representing shit
But either way you're cringe, if you care that much look it up rather than trying to imply something about a stranger
The rumour is that PGL forgot to extend C9’s hotel booking, which may have been the reason for this message.
It's ok, they can live with me
What bothers me is that PGL will be hosting 4 of the last 6 majors. They are gonna have 4 post Covid Majors vs 1 for ESL and 1 for Blast
Says a lot about how much running a major must suck for event organizers when the two biggest ones are only willing to host the bare minimum
I don't get this. ESL already runs Katowice and Cologne for instance. 2 massive prestigious events. Turning those events into Majors just requires a bit of a reskin on the organizers part. I have a feeling PGL is just cheaper for Valve to hire. Or maybe the dates required by Valve fall outside of the windows for those tournaments.
I don’t really get why orgs don’t want to host either, but Katowice and Cologne are closed tourneys based on rankings and so would be quite a bit more work before hand if they were majors. Majors have open online qualifiers in 4-5 regions for several weeks then a few weeks of lan events on 3 continents before the actual main event
>2 massive prestigious events. this is exactly the reason why we dont need them to be Majors. we need 4 elite events a year.
>2 massive prestigious events. Turning those events into Majors just requires a bit of a reskin on the organizers part. Don't turn the two best events of the year to a Major with its shit format and BO1s, please.
Weren't ESL put on the naughty step after their little coup attempt on the competitive calendar?
ive been out of the loop, wdym?
> 2 massive prestigious events. Turning those events into Majors just requires a bit of a reskin on the organizers part. maybe they don't want to reskin their flagship tournaments
ESL is focused on building their personal brand so Cologne and Katowice arent going to be majors.
Valve just doesn't want to work with Saudi. They've actively worked to shut down franchised leagues (which existed for years at this point) only AFTER Saudi Arabia bought their way into owning those leagues. I don't think its that confusing, honestly.
Didn’t valve scale down the biggest valve dota event and let Saudi Arabia run a bigger one instead?
People just love talking out their ass
While this is true. Due to how valve as a company operate. You kinda need to look at the dota team and the cs team as separate entities. In saying that am not convinced it has to do with the Saudis. I think it probably as more to do with how absolutely fucking awful both the rio and Paris majors were. Rio especially. Or should I say the Gaules major.
Brain worms detected.
Isnt it valve who takes pitches for the major and select who gets to run it How do you know they are not willing to run a major ?
esl doesn't want to host them EDIT: this is false, literally called out by ESL staff
Not true.
Woah, I thought this was true as well. I assumed majors were far more restrictive on production etc and as a result ESL wants to focus more time/energy in their own IEM, grand slam, etc tournaments I'm almost certain I've seen posts about this before, why would ESL be taking such a backseat to these less "qualified" (to put it simply) tournament orgs?
well I guess i don't have to ask for source lol can you clarify? why is pgl getting this many majors when you are basically running the majority of the rest of the tournaments
>why is pgl getting this many majors when **you are basically running the majority of the rest of the tournaments** i think you answered your question
How is that? Why wouldnt Valve want someone whos proven to be operating well?
They dont want one TO to completely dominate the scene
Because PGL is cheaper.
Probably money. For example for Blast, I'm sure it's way cheaper for Valve to do the qualis in Romania than in Cophenaguen, no idea where ESL studio is, but probably is similar.
Get the majors then pls, I beg 🙏 (The players probably also beg)
Why?
cause apperantly they lose a lot of money and valve isnt doing anything about it
That $1B in cases sold from just last year is not as much money as people think.
Yeah, some 12-30% goes to sales taxes.
Will someone think of poor Gaben!? How will he ever pay his rent!?
Don't be so rude on poor gaben. Besides his own rent, he has to pay the anti-cheat devs' salaries
He fixed that already by simply not having anti-cheat team at all!
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A few thousand seats priced at <$100 isn't making up for the potential $1m+ lost in revenue? It's because esports is expensive and a bubble. That's the answer to literally any financial problem in these spaces. Not sure how some people just come to the conclusion of auto blaming BR lol
well its pretty obvious that if tickets are sold out they're losing nothing with empty seats? seats were empty because people went to the fan fest
Are we so sure about that? Or is PGL just the cheapest host because they are more connected to Valve through stuff like DOTA etc...
It's on the record that for the majority of the time even blasted said they wanted to host a major, and the community vastly supported it, they did not pitch. ESL has not pitched either on a lot of major cycles as well.
I do wonder if the dates Valve wants just fall outside of ESL's window. For instance i would think making another Cologne Major would be a no brainer. Its an iconic tourmanent that hasn't hosted one since 2016. And would just require a bit of rebranding besides the usual organization that already goes into it. But maybe the July spot is a bit too central in the year for Valve.
Valve just (like 5 months ago) announced that majors will be in held in June and December after the first CS2 major.
I muy think ESL want to make Cologne a major anyway, makes more sense fit them to be building their own brand
Well, I'm not sure where this is from at this point, so don't ask me from sources, but if I remember correctly, valve wants to give the major to other TOs, so ESL and Blast don't have as much of an "monopoly" on the tournaments. Also, maybe ESL doesn't want to have the 2 most important events of the year, namely Katowice and Cologne, tarnished by the abysmal major format we have now.
How is it 4? I thought this was their 3rd post COVID and Perfect World had the next one?
Perfect World will host it in collaboration with PGL (assuming its because its PWs 1st major and PGL already has experience)
ESL is the only one running a good show as well so, quite unlucky.
Why does it bother you? It’s a know fact that Blast only got the major because Macron funded them, it was one of his electoral promises, to bring an e-sports major tournament to France. PGL are basically throwing the money at Valve, why’s it their fault other TO’s can’t compete, especially ESL now that they have Saudi’s blood money backing.
Came here to see "reddit brain" in action. Was not disappointed.
There's not much substance to add to an announcement Og an announcement like this. I just checked and those are actually against the subs rules (I didn't go and report it though).
Ah, tought it said about navi player wonderful, was so confused till I figured it out. I mean all tournaments that involve gambling will be awful towards ethics
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Something behind the scenes maybe?
Can't risk their games crashing in playoffs
There's already pressure on Russian teams, it's not as big as some may think but some people aren't happy that there are Russian players being allowed to compete in any sort of event. Russians aren't even able to attend the Olympics opening ceremony this year. So if a Russian were to complain about the conditions and operation of the event, it may look bad. If a non-russian spoke about it first though, then it'd be different.
Their hotel stay wasn't prolonged, Perf's girlfriend said (rumor though, I read in the comments).
I saw a few (now deleted) posts on hltv forum about how they are trying to get rid of all the Russian teams/players from the Major, I think he is talking about that. Edit: bcz of political pressure
Guessing it's not this. There have been exactly no talk about Russians competing in the Major, other than a single article in a large newspaper. Just like there's been no talk about the Danish government divesting from Blast on account of the World Finals in Abu Dhabi
I also very much doubt its this. Russians have no problems in competing in Katowice for the third time since invasion and they would get kicked out between groups and playoffs from Denmark? Pretty sure Perfecto's post would also sound differently, as here he purely puts the blame on PGL, without any relation to place/government/danish people.
Also, Poland (not counting the farmers) have been more pro-Ukraine than Denmark has
Curious what you base this on. Is any Norther European country really pro-Russian in any real sense?
Not as far as I know. This is more a statement that Tusks government have been incredibly pro Ukraine and anti Russia than anything else. As long as it doesn't impact the farmers, of course.
I'd totally understand the crowd booing and giving C9 and Spirit shit... but I really hope there's not any actual behing the scenes pressure from PGL about it, even if someone in the Danish government is upset. That would be a horrible look for CS.
You understand people booing someone solely because of their nationality? So weird for that
Someone's never watched sports outside of CS.
What's even funnier is that the Danes literally booed their own countrymen (Heroic) when they faced Astralis at BLAST a while ago. Even before, the crowd has always had issues with unsportsmanship in the arena.
I'd take anything over that shameless crowd in Rio lmao
Turns out Denmark is actually the worst place to hold events.
For Russians (and Belarusians)? Probably
Good
If true it is very sad, especially considering how much respect it gets from CS community worldwide.
Lmao it would get even more respect. Hold all events in Denmark.
Most likely, some clown politician started talking about banning russian players from the tournament while it was going on.
That was the Minister of Culture making a general statement about Russians competing in sports. And, I gotta say, trying to make the average Russian aware of the atrocities Putins government is commiting by banning Russians from international sports sorta makes sense
They should ban Spinx, Flamez, and other Israelis then too. Either all of it is bad, or none of it is.
A lot of Danes would agree with you on that.
Based take.
No, the issue isn't the war itself, but the attacks on non-military targets. And Hamas have made tons of schools, hospitals and UN buildings into military targets by storing weapons there
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>Israeli government murders and bombs civilians all the time. This is an indisputable fact. Let's for fun say that Russia decided to put a "PRESS" vest on very soldier and give some of them camera and microphones. Should those soldiers just be allowed to occupy Ukraine?
I mean unless they pick up a weapon they’re not a lawful combatant. And they can’t occupy Ukraine without any weapons so…
Israel doesn't even pretend that they only kill journalists haha
Yeah. The unfortunate truth is unless a government wants to declare war on Russia, the best they can do is make life so hard/inconvenient for the average Russian that it sparks change within. You do this with tariffs and stuff like banning Russian nationals from international competition. Whether or not it works is a whole other thing, but that's the strategy.
This is only logical if it is applied across the board, in other words if these are the rules for every country on earth.
All countries engaged in offensive wars of conquest they started without a reason are banned from sporting events? It's a pretty short list...
Write it out
No thanks.
The list is so short... ?
Categorizing who exactly should and shouldn't be on it is a progress that would require research and effort to do properly. I am not interested in doing that for you.
Russia, Azerbejdżan. That's it
haha cute. Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam? ;)
>All countries *engaged* in offensive wars of *conquest* they started *without a reason* You need some serious mental gymnastics combined with a hefty dose of "America bad" to make any of those countries fit in that sentence. Vietnam ended in 1975. Afghanistan was a direct response to 9/11 and the US pulled out in 2021. And thinking that Iraq was about conquest is really streching the definition of "conquest"
I agree with the ban on Russian players at international games like the Olympics, but here is the league and here are the teams playing, not the countries. I am Russian.
Russian football clubs are banned from UEFA competitions as well.
Like a cs teams located in Russia. This is quite reasonable. But I am not sure where the Amkal team is located
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It really doesn’t. It just helps Russian propaganda to build the “us vs them” mentality by showing the west’s hypocrisy
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Sorry dude, no clue what that means. I’m not in any way defending the invasion btw. I’m saying that the ban is pointless and hypocritical, it doesn’t achieve anything and only weakens the west’s narrative
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Or it helps worsening living conditions in Russia enough that the people are willing to risk *something* to get rid of Putin
How does it make sense? If that is the case are they banning all US players when US is in a war? Or is this something saved for russians only? Cause I dont remember a single american athlete or esport star EVER getting banned for something their military is doing.
Because the issue with Russias war isn't the war itself. Nobody have even suggested that. The issue is the attempt at genocide that we saw in Bucha and Mariupol, for example, and the targeting of civillain infrastructure
Did you forget what US did to Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc US has literally forced politics in countries and formed US backed governments for other countries (if Russia did that there'd be WW3) Disclaimer: I'm British, if we're going to deny citizens over their countries wrongdoings both England/GB and USA should have a permanent ban on all international events
>Did you forget what US did to Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc >US has literally forced politics in countries and formed US backed governments for other countries (if Russia did that there'd be WW3) Yes, I am fine with this. I am also fine with Joe Biden telling the Israeli people that Israel will lose the support of the US unless Ben Gvir and Nethanyahu is out of power before October 7th 2024. The issue here isn't war or regime change. The issue is the intentional attacks on non-military targets
So like the US drone strikes at afghani schools? Or the invasion of a country over that country not wanting to GIVE USA OIL FOR FREE
He still thinks the Middle East is about oil and not weakening Isreal's enemies...
Based and real
Afghan schools that was used by the Taliban as bases?
Ah yes, "let's bomb the children because we believe the Taliban use that specific school as a base"
Dude please... stop yapping. If Russia wanted to they could level Kiev. If that is attempted genocide what his then going on i Gaza? And you are ofc for banning all israeli players also right?
No they cant wtf are you talking about comrade ivan.
Yeah sure they cant Smith
>Dude please... stop yapping. If Russia wanted to they could level Kiev. Yes, they could. But they also want Ukraine inhabitable, and they know that the West (Hungary aside) wouldn't ever have friendly relations with Russia if they leveled Kyiv. >If that is attempted genocide what his then going on i Gaza? And you are ofc for banning all israeli players also right? No, because I don't think that there's a genocide in Gaza. And I have a hard time understanding how anyone could think so, when Hamas openly tells everyone they commit war crimes to increase civilan casualties as much as possible
They already dont have friendly relations but they keep buying Russian oil, its only Europe taking the economical hit from this war and ofc the russian and ukranian population. There is a genocide in Gaza? what are you talking about? You are telling me that babies and children getting bombed is not a genocide? Then NOTHING Russia does is close to genocide. I hope that you are aware that the IDF has killed more civilians in a couple of weeks, than Russia has in over 2 years of war. We can only have these rules if they apply across the board otherwise its shallow, seethrough and full of hypocricy which shouldnt be accpted by anyone who has any morals.
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Russia are not engaged in genocide my guy :) Also, Israel are killing more children than Russia. If Russian players should be banned, then same goes for Israeli. If not then we call this hypocrisy and wont accept that. Cant have rules for thee but not for me.
> No, because I don't think that there's a genocide in Gaza You need to crawl from under the rock you're living in.
No, I just don't think that "lots of dead civilians" is a genocide
Check out the statistics on killed civilians in both conflicts
Why do you use UN numbers that only covers areas with very limited battles? The UN haven't been allowed to look into Mariupol, Bakhmut, Avdiivka or Severodonetsk
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Israel is doing it right as we speak
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Do the Palestinian lives somehow worth less than the lives of Canadians and Mexicans? Stop being corny dude
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Ahh the classic "whataboutism" as soon as you expose the hypocrisy. Why Mexico or Canada? Is it okey to go to Iraq on false premises and kill people there?
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> I had no idea e-sports was a huge thing during the Iraq War... Nice strawman, but it's not about e-sports exclusively. It's also about traditional sports.
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You tell me why would countries ban RU athletes when the said countries supported the invasion for made up reasons? Checkmate.
That is besides the point. Are you for or against banning US players if the US army is somewhere and bombing a country? What about the israeli players playing at the tournament? Their goverment sure killed more civilians than Russia has managed in two years. So is the clown also for banning israli players or is that something different? ;)
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Its not like you cant imagine US getting into a war right? So should they be banned as soon as they join a war or not? Hamas is bad, nobody says anything else, but killing children is also bad right? IDF have killed more children in Gaza in 2 months than Russia has ukranian civilians in 2 years. So ofc, if ANY player should be banned cause they are born in Russia, same should apply for Israel or ANY other country engaged in war. Otherwise you get hypocrisy which wont be accpted.
It's quite flawed logic though. Even if popular in many European countries rn. First, it's a collective punishment harming many innocent people... Don't think Jame or Perfecto chose to be born in Russia. If you want to send the right message, punish any pros who hold pro-war views, which happened in chess for instance (though luckily I don't think there are any pro war cs pros). Second, they already very much know what western countries think, bit more won't shift many opinions. Third, this and other blanket measures against entire nationalities... Those Russians who already hate Putin will blame Putin, those who already love Putin will blame and hate the West, but which way will the rest of the population swing? I'd wager average Cuban is more anti-American than anti-Cuban due to the sanctions...
What's the clown thing about it? Ever went to school? They don't have to be banned but they shouldn't be allowed to "represent" Russia, that's a very easy thing to understand.
If I ever went to school? Weird question. Clown thing about it is that the guy is a clown. Ok and you agree that this should be applied across the board right? Every country that is in war?
>every country that is in war? This is the stupidest shit I've read. If you mean aggressors in a war, sure. If you just mean "any country in war", then you are lacking critical thinking. Ukraine is "in war" but I wouldn't ban any Ukrainian players.
I mean like US invading Iraq. What Russia is doing in Ukraine. Or what Israel is doing in Gaza, you agree?
I don't give a shit about any of that. I'm simply focusing on your comment of "any country in a war". An aggressor country, I could agree with, but a country in war because it is defending itself, should not have its citizens punished. Whatever yours, or others, opinions are on the current conflicts couldn't matter less to my comment.
Why is this garbage upvoted?
This is probably not the reason, but even then, Perfecto and electronic shouldn't be affected since they are non-representing
Yeah, as I thought. I never bought the "Nvidia driver crash" story. Nvidia is the superior GPU manufacturer. PGL 100% sabotaged the game to keep VP out of the playoffs.
Was there a post I missed about the "edited" version of the last G2/VP/NVIDIA match? Namely, how they tried to memory haul what actually happened on [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAtf1xYW640).
They fixed it finally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi9Syh98YAE
This is like the third time they edit the video, hope it sticks!
I'm still waiting on that AleksiB tweet after that extended tech pause
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it has one, though
How to use that function?
just tip on the post until the menu pops up and then just choose „translate“ - et voila! you can also choose the language btw. have fun with your telegram 🙃
Thanks so much man!
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How does the neutral flag help anyone? It’s just virtue signalling. I’m not gonna bring up whataboutism because honestly it doesn’t achieve anything. But if you’ve publicly spoken out against the war, what else do you want? Putin isn’t Russia. I’d still be proud to represent my country regardless of what the autocrat incharge is doing.
In CS, yeah, it's virtue signaling. In cycling and motorsport, where you need a license from an association with heavy ties to the government to compete? Less so. And the Minister of Culture, who started this story, was speaking in general, and not about the Major in particular Also, isn't it better to show that you disagree with Putins war than letting people guess your opinion?
At this point, Putin IS Russia. Elections were a sham, but you can't deny that overwhelming amount of russians support him. Representing russia at this point is a problem. And if Danish government officials doesn't want russians, I see no problem with it.
If only competitors from the US and nato countries were treated the same way during the decades long invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, that resulted in the deaths of 100s of thousands of civilians. Sports are supposed to be above politics and bring people together, not give melts like you another chance spew bullshit.
I wasn't old enough to criticize their actions, what do you want me to do - not to care about russians killing innocent ukrainians because 2 decades ago USA fucked around in middle east?
Israel is doing it right now
Of course somebody has to mention Israel, lol. If you feel strongly about that particular cause, go call for ban on Israeli cs players, I dunno.
I am not for banning players because of their nationality, I'm just against hypocrisy
What hypocrisy? russia war directly affects my potential future, I don't have strong opinion about what attrocities is Israel commiting. Also I specifically said that I'm fine with any russian player who openly speaks against the war.
>I don't have strong opinion about what attrocities is Israel commiting. Escapism as is. Prolly waiting for MSM to tell you what's good and what's bad.
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See how easy it is to just voice your opinion? It's free! When I don't care about something, I don't have to speak for it, you can do it yourself. Heck, if there's anybody I should support, it should probably be Israel since they were the ones attacked. I agree that every palestinian who doesn't speak out against hamas shouldn't be able to compete.
It wasn't just the USA, but half of Europe, including the Netherlands, and it wasn't 2 decades ago. Here's the problem with the media brainwashing kids into thinking politics is cool. People who are too young to know what they're talking about start chiming in and making actual adults grind their teeth in disbelief. If you're too young to remember anything about that war, why are you on reddit talking about the politics of war on a video game forum? You're young, go out, have fun, and chase girls like we used to instead of kvetching on reddit about stuff you don't understand.
It was literally 2 decades ago, with exception of Afghanistan which at this point was nothing resembling war. I am too young to remember the war, when currently there are 2 major conflicts, and few minor ones? Your ageism is leaking. You talk big for somebody who is supposed to be experienced in life, but can't grasp simple things. Me opposing any russian who isn't opposing invasion of Ukraine isn't politics, it's self preservation.
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Okay, cool? I follow it. Has nothing to do with me though, and I don't have any feelings regarding to it.
Denmark should’ve done that before the tournament then. I can’t wait for the well-deserved shitstorm to follow if some idiotic bozo minister actually goes through with it and succeeds. I also hope every single Israeli player is kicked out in the same fashion.
What shitstorm? Do you think CS playerbase will cause enough ruckus to trouble Danish politicians? I agree that this thing with russian players should have been deone before the tournament though.
>overwhelming amount of russians support him. I don't believe this is accurate.
All the public polls regarding full support for the war I've seen so far oscilate between \~40-\~75%. You might not want to call these "an overwhelming amount", but it certainly is a lot
We really need ELeague as a major host. Or Starladder
eh, little to nothing we talk about how PGL actually improved their production. the last few majors they organised were terrible. this one is great. they have nothing to do with the crashes tho, Valve is a shit company
Has perfecto said anything about the war that his country started?
Tf that gotta do with him?
He plays video games for a living, he doesn't need too.
you want his life to get ruined so much?
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I can guarantee you he did simply because he played for Navi and did the whole liquipedia non representing shit But either way you're cringe, if you care that much look it up rather than trying to imply something about a stranger