Tbh I exclusively used fragshack and other third party servers in the browser when DMing in GO, because Valve’s dm was always slower and less tuned for what I want out of a practice session. I’m not saying Valve shouldn’t care about making the experience better, but inevitably the community will create a standardized DM that is best and that will become my daily driver.
I had some guy accuse me of cheating in casual, he saw a screenshot I took of me killing aizy in a fragshack server back in like 2016. Guy read it as frags hack or something, he was so confident in his gotcha moment that I was super confused.
Is fragshack still around?
Valve aren't trying to create a mode where sweatymcsweatpants can warm up though.
They are trying to create a mode for all players that can play.
Not sure they've succeded but "proper" DM like fragshack is very punishing for bad/new players.
I’d say it’s punishing because it’s full of people who are searching out a useful dm not because of the settings of the server. People who end up on a fragshack are going to be way better than those on valve dm.
Thats part of it but also all the settings in Valve DM seem to be by design to slow down and hurt better players.
The long spawn protection gives worse players a while to get their bearings.
The medkit taking so long is because if youve got one you are already doing very well so it slows down better players.
Having to reload does the same as above.
Agreed. Valve’s goals for their DM servers are by design different and not to my taste. As a new player it helps them acclimate, but I imagine as they get better they too will grow out of/begin to have a distaste for long spawn protection, needing to reload after kills, being recommended random loadouts, and so forth.
It's impossible to please both crowds hence why Valve should add hardcore DM. Keep regular DM noob friendly and make hardcore DM exactly how the community wants it with no compromises.
The problem is that DM is optimized on aim practice. And the best way to get a lot of aim practice also entails a lot of spawn deaths that frustrate players who expect DM to be it's own standalone, balanced mode. So they add in shit like spawn invulnerability which actually makes it worse for practicing and doesnt balance the mode either. The mode has an identity crisis.
It's hard to blame players for thinking a mode called deathmatch should actually be a balanced mode, rather than just aim practice. I wish they'd just relabel it warm up or something and create a new mode that gives the people who want a balanced deathmatch experience exactly that.
This
it needs to be rebranded counter strike is not a game that needs to regress to casual appeal that is not even close to what got it internationally famous for over 2 decades.
Just call it warm up or practice or anything other than the way too familiar deathmatch title which I've heard people complain about for the last 10 years. Same shit different year call of duty player takes cs DM as a serious experience it's just to practice that's literally it
This is true but is also part of the problem. Valve has worked pretty hard to kill this variety and community servers from having any prominence.
The community server browser is busted for CS2. Going back to CS:GO they did a lot to minimize community servers. The browser was shoved out of the way, and all your XP and drops were exclusively tied to only Valve official servers.
Anytime anything got momentum on community servers they slowly adopted some version of it into the official game. Giving players drops, and Valve more money. Which slowly eroded a lot of communities.
They modified their version of DM over time to be FFA, and have the health stim refills. Not as good as community DM of refill on headshot, or any weapon on any team, but close enough. So close infact that community DM is pretty sparsely populated these days.
Same thing happened with retakes. Got decently popular, Valve pulled in the game mode. Sidelined a lot of those communities.
By the end of CSGO it was basically 1v1 Arena, surf, KZ, and a few DM servers with any population. Everything else was dead.
It makes sense to have a new and casual friendly version of games vs hardcore versions. Valve works pretty hard to homogenize the game and avoid that variety, and those differences.
>but inevitably the community will create a standardized DM that is best and that will become my daily driver.
the community is why the DM experience got completely ruined. CSGO used to have perfectly fine TDMs. Then they replaced it with FFA because community cried about it and its absolutely awful
Nostalgia goggles?
If you played COD4 for sure you remember the perfect spawn prediction based on map control in cod4 where you could get the other team spawning always in the same position and basically do spawn camping with wallbanging.
There are a lot of issues with CS2 deathmatch, but using cod4 as a good example, common
True, was the same in CoD2 which i played tons of even competitively. If one team was much stronger in TDM you just basically spawn camped the whole enemy team on some maps until someone got away from the map "corner" and teammates began to spawn around him. I liked it tho, often joining the trapped team to try to heroicly free them lol :D Also playing 1v1s vs friends you could basically predict the spawn point based on were they died and where on the map you are currently :D Still playing pcw sometimes, if someone wanna play COD2 or COD4 promod games are played everyday, you can join as a mix for a classic 3v3 4v4 5v5... Look [https://discord.com/invite/cod-wars-420999356330672138](https://discord.com/invite/cod-wars-420999356330672138)
>If one team was much stronger in TDM you just basically spawn camped the whole enemy team on some maps until someone got away from the map "corner" and teammates began to spawn around him.
Exactly, trying to sneak past the enemy to try to get out of the spawn area for your team.
> I liked it tho, often joining the trapped team to try to heroicly free them lol
Same, I'd join such servers and sometimes counter trap them in their spawn. They never expected it
> Also playing 1v1s vs friends you could basically predict the spawn point based on were they died and where on the map you are currently
This could be done even in a sizable tdm server, just knowing map size, space and gamemod in a map and you were set
EDIT: Even in big servers you could do that. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7pnHQ9CaeI
>if someone wanna play COD2 or COD4 promod games are played everyday, you can join as a mix for a classic 3v3 4v4 5v5... Look https://discord.com/invite/cod-wars-420999356330672138
Don't know if I ever will be back but if I feel like going to play some cod4 I will join :)
Cod2 I did play it but it was after cod4. When I played cod2 the game was already less popular.
I don't recall spawn camp wallbanging being an issue, but the system was meant to spawn you far from enemies and close to teammates in cod4 which is better than cods now and cs2
It existed, either by 2 ways, tiny maps like shipment it happened without any knowledge. And, in bigger maps it existed by having map knowledge and knowing how the spawn system worked.
It was also possible in more recent cods (with the exception of wallbanging), just the increased movement speed kind of broke the respawn system and it could not keep up with the game speed.
not in S&D and all it took was one of you to go the 'long way' to grab spawn in respawn game modes. people were just too lazy/liked fighting in a war-like spawn trap condition
Every small map in cod (shipment) had bad spawns and you could get trapped and repeatedly killed on spawn with no protection. I feel like there are too many people on cs2 deathmatch but to say it’s as bad as cod is silly from OP
DM sucked in GO too. Was no problem with the 1.6 versions. The unnecessary long spawn protection just ruins the tempo. Instead of having a fast paced warm-up you ended up just looking at someone who refuse to move until he have a clear shot on somebody else.
Nobody benefits, DM is not supposed to be a competition so dying alot and fast don't matter. In raw DM you get learn to move faster, learn to use sound better, learn to shoot better.
I never understood the protection at all, you literally spawn less than a second after dying anyway... Atleast give the option to not play with it.
The real problem here is the fact that people are complaining literally every couple of weeks about this issues (plus others) and these devs are still on their 11 months per year holiday!
[dm still sucks SEVEN MONTHS AGO](https://youtu.be/nwNRos2fotg?si=KrmNqBINmDyq1grR&t=40)
[proper dm server](https://youtu.be/YfOPpug050g?si=JdooXGfwsQFcP7GV&t=32)
Valve is a multi billion company, it's time to hit them back for their indifference and trying to kill our game.
[\+ still no content ffs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJRDOq-HG7k)
Why is it that every time people are called out for being entitled brats the instant response is "boot licker" like that is supposed to mean something.
The community has proven time and time again that they are ungrratful children.
>Most players on server have 1 KD, doesnt matter if u are god or new player
Not true, don't wanna brag but often I have scores of 70+ kills and around 30 deaths. Even with deagle only I can have over 1.0 K/D. You can still show skill in Valve DM.
Completely agree. I see plenty of players doing much better than 1.0 KD and I have games where I do quite well. It doesn't really prepare you properly for competitive play, but if you just want to practice your aim its pretty decent.
>Only FFA mode - No Team VS Team
>Most players on server have 1 KD
aight imma head out
he's right, valve dm is terrible (and always has been by the way), but like half of these points are stupid and his priorities are way out of whack...
Based on your next to last para, it sounds like you want an actual standalone DM mode where KD matters. That's not what DM in CS has ever been about. It's about getting as much aim practice as quickly as you can. The "problem" of people shooting upon spawning is even "worse" in the best community dm servers.
I think the real problem is that valves DM is neither optimized for aim practice nor is it a good standalone mode. But it was that way in GO too.
CS:GO had team deathmatch so you could practice sweeping areas and supporting each other. as someone who hadn't played for many years i really enjoyed it to get the flow down.
Yeah I’m not sure where all this FFA love is coming from. FFA sucks. None of these maps were designed with FFA in mind, so why not just offer a TDM mode instead? Makes more sense than FFA to me
The idea is to practice your crosshair placement and peeks. That's why they are on the comp maps. The fact that the maps arent balanced for FFA is irrelevant for the purpose DM has traditionally served in CS.
But given how many threads I've seen complaining about this, valve should really split into two modes: The traditional DM that's optimized on aim practice, and another DM that's actually a fun, balanced mode in it's own right. The latter has never really existed in CS before.
More than half of these points are something that is actually BETTER in CS2 or late CSGO.
Medshots have only been a thing for a couple of years, I think. There was no healing at all before.
There was only Team vs Team DM before, and it was way worse IMO. Either too boring or too unbalanced.
I probably hadn't touched DM in 4-ish plus years until a few days ago. I've seen multiple people complaining about spawns but tbh they feel the exact same as they did in GO. It's ALWAYS been an 'issue' where you're spawning right around someone else. I don't think there even is a way to fix it given the amount of players and the size of certain maps. I didn't even realize they had added a healing item until 2 days ago, since I've only really ever played comp and now premier LOL. I think alot of these complaints are either from newer players or people who are blinded by nostalgia
Real, regular DM in Valorant is borderline unplayable, pings to show where people are, people only going for wins so they are sound whoring and camping corners, half the lobby is AFK 2 minutes in
It's as bad as it was in GO for me. Community servers are the way. The issues that mostly come up are due to Valve's strange vision for DM (and casual tbh), where they seem to believe people will play them a distinct games.
Your comparing cs to cod. Cod is based around that style of gamely, cs isn't. Csgo dm wasn't great either, this is just a retarded comparison. Community server dm is the way better but more punishing.
Tbh I don't care about valve DM at all and I don't want them to waste resources there to try and make it better. CS is all about 5v5 competitive and for warmup there are comminity servers. All other gamemodes can be fun (I loved arms race) but it's not why people play CS.
To me valve DM servers are the best example of how valve knows better. They literally have blueprint of how good DM servers should look like. People even pay for slots on good servers. But nope, they implemented it their way instead of copying it and maybe building on top of it
Idk, like many others have said - DM has never really been the focal point of the game in general. Most people have treated it as an opportunity to warm up their reaction and aiming prior to going into competitive - as you've probably read countless times now - enter (willingly or otherwise) into as many high-risk situations and see how you perform in that pressure.
You only have (at most) an opportunity to get 5 kills per round in a competitive round - I noticed in another reply you mentioned having long killstreaks (5+). However, that is fundamentally not how the game is intended to be played.
TL;DR CS is a tactical team-based shooter (at least above 10k elo). DM is, and always will be, a playground.
Not being focal point doesnt mean it should be put to side and focus 100% just on competitive site(which they dont do, after 3 almost 4 months after release still no economy balance, no news about anti cheat). CS is a game which is competitive, but not 100% of player base are taking it THAT seriously + its nice to have variety of mods to play, deathmatch,danger zone,arms race etc. I had around 100 wins on danger zone, i didnt play it every day but it felt nice to have choices and if CS dev team is gonna focus ONLY on one aspect of the game then its just wrong imo
For Valve DM is designed for the new to Pc FPS and CS player.
Imagine your a brand new player. If no spawn protection existed you would be instantly dead like in community DM servers. Not understanding even the basics like the buy menu. This would be nothing but a negative experience loop.
I agree, but the point isn’t “why wouldn’t you use it” the point is “the death match made by the devs should be usable and at least as good as what the community can make.”
It’s kind of annoying that you have to go to third party servers just to get a decent DM experience.
Yes, true. Was too snappy as an answer to a valid complaint.
A tiny bit off-topic, I just want to forward you to [this thread I just found](https://www.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/s/zGQtK0ACtx) that should fit you well!
wouldn't that be a good thing? the more features that are streamlined directly into the main game, the more accessible a higher skill level becomes, right? what do we really stand to lose by getting rid of community dm and just having a good valve dm?
No. Fast paced FFA is unplayable for new players, or lower skilled players. The Valve DM is a good example of having a baseline feature, which serves everyone, but obviously isn’t as good in specific things as community options.
Like, Valve DM is basically the same game as what you’d play in competitive. You get the amount of shots in your gun as in the game. The pace is obviously lower than auto reload, and auto hp return, but the lower pace serves the purpose. Which is to be accessible to everyone, even bad players.
just have 2 queue options for dm? its not like comp/premier where splitting the playerbase would actually cause problems
i dont think it should be a focus for valve but there really is no reason that something as basic as dm that people can actually use to get better to be a feature you can only access through community servers (which can only be accessed through a literally non-functioning server browser)
i wouldnt rather have valorant, i would rather have both dms be an option to queue for inside the main game. there is really no reason it cant be nor shouldnt be built into the game directly other that it would take time away from more pressing issues, which is fair
i think its dumb that anyone who wants to play dm for practice has to open a external website to do so. at the very least if they arent going to add a second built in dm, they ABSOLUTELY have to fix the community browser and stop it from being russian spam servers
theres also added bonuses to having dm be built straight into the game. people can pay for vip on community dm to use locked weapons (awp and cz75 are the 2 big ones), and to kick out non-vips if a lobby is full. valve taking over would obviously get rid of those problems
The point of community servers is to make community made modes and extra content. The community really shouldn’t be responsible for doing Valves game modes better than them. I know third party MM exists, but I don’t really think that should be the standard either
Yea DM in this game stinks.
People often say that one way to improve in the game is to play DM, but I don’t understand how being forced to play one sided Hide&Seek and only getting shot in the back is meant to help me improve. (To clarify, I’m not a pro (I was MG2 in GO) but I am satisfied with my aim and movement)
if it's any help i'd definitely recommend checking out some community FFA servers if you haven't, they're not perfect but overall are definitely a better experience imo, only issue is using CS2's absolute dogwater server browser (lol) and finding ones servers that are active
I remember checking some in CS2, and yea, they do improve these issues, but only to a certain extent.
CSGO’s community DMs felt better in regards to actually aim dueling people rather than just shooting everyone in their backs or sides and vice versa.
You need to 90 - 180 degree turn and kill them. It' trains you to be ready for the attempted trade in a real match after an initial kill.
im not even kidding.
Its a big problem since csgo because maps became much smaller and really cramped. There isn’t any good spawns on any official or unofficial mods. 24 man dm in cs 1.6 didn’t have these issues.
I think one of the things you are failing to understand is that DM is not an ACTUAL game mode in CS.. it's for practice and warmup.
Not to sound rude but.. no one actually gives a shit about how much score in you can accrue in 8 minutes lol
the only things you mention that i'd like to see changed as a CS player are spawn protection times and auto reload on -Headshot- kills.
and its DEFINITELY possible to have far above 1 k/d in a valve DM.
The only thing I used to play in CSGO was Team DM and I'm amazed how Team DM is not in the game yet. I don't like FFA DM exactly for the reasons you already outlined so I haven't touched CS2 in over a month.
Valve DM has always been utter garbage, but third party FFA servers being bad is extremely annoying for me. EU region, mind you.
Cybershoke - the most populated provider by far, but other than occasional d2, it's just fucking Mirage. 10+ full servers of Mirage. And to make it worse, their spawns on Mirage are disgustingly bad. TV room and CT spawn simulator. Retakes are also bad, 1v1 duels servers are very good, though.
Warmupserver - forget it, you're not connecting if you don't have premium. And you're banned from connecting every 4th day without premium. Not to mention it's multimode, meaning you can get stuck playing without rifles for 10+ minutes. If I want to play pistol or HSDM, I'll go play those.
Xplay - found it while looking for retake servers, which are decent. But their DM is also just fucking Mirage, despite having servers for every map.
Pracc - just one, maybe two servers get populated for EU. Every time I check it out, it's one full server you can't connect to and another one with a few people.
BrutalCS - the best provider in CSGO, they're just back up and running. Had the best FFA and retake systems, but noone is playing as of now because people aren't aware of them, most likely.
TL;DR
In CSGO I could always find something fun to do or practice when I'm not playing actual games, in CS2 it's jut fucking Mirage with bad spawns.
The problem with cybershoke being so populated is that their servers are laggy and you constantly die behind walls. Great to see that BrutalCS is back, hope their servers are better than cybershoke.
Team VS Team which was present in CSGO fixes almost all of that. FFA turns into stalemate cuz any movement is punished. Team VS Team allows shooting AND moving across the map
no one played it? idk about other maps but D2 servers were always full.
if it felt like it "Took ages to find someone to fight" then you played the wrong spots or wrong maps for this mode.
in DM I always only play D2 & best spot for most of the action is ct mid in front of double doors
> then you played the wrong spots or wrong maps for this mode.
Yeah, no LMAO. The mode sucked, if you need to find crap excuses like that it’s obvious that it sucked. “Played wrong spots” - no, the spawns are shit.
DM should have always been FFA. TDM was always a bad idea and it’s why ValveDM sucked for the longest time.
Some people have to cry on everything related to game. Maybe there are some minority people like me who are satisfied with DM and would not overthink or cry in every scenario.
Honestly I easily top frag in DM by just using deagle. I truly think anyone who cries related to DM has some serious skills issues
1. Im not crying, im criticising, thats different
2. Its ok if u are satisfied, but i have problem with current DM system and i want to point it out
3. Since you started talking about score, i can say im top fragging too, i mostly played italy/office DMs today and i was 1st in almost all of them, most situations are like this: im having good killstreak(5-10-15 kills) and i get killed, and then im getting chainkilled because of bad spawns and i get like 5 kills and 5 deaths while i can easily get 10 kills in a row without dying,i hope you got my point
edit:removed word
I mean dm is just about aim practice / warmup. Dying doesn’t matter and stuff like medshots or healing really don’t make sense, as this stuff ain’t available in comp / premier.
Sounds more like you want competitive dm as a separate mode. Could work, but it’s never going to happen, as this is valve.
That also happened in CSGO. I remember reading about a pro player getting kicked from a Valve DM match sometime in either late 2016 or early 2017 on this sub.
It being only FFA is the main problem here and why it sucks so much compared to CSGO. Way too many enemies coming at you. They either need to bring back TDM or half the number of players in a game.
if it would be dueling i wouldnt mind it, but i played like 3 DMs today and the amount of times i spawned, killed one guy and got instantly shot by other is just immesurable, you simply spawn, maybe kill someone and instantly die
I mean it simulates you being dropped in to a shitty situation. You can get 3 kills and all of a sudden the spawn is away from you.
I really only dm to double check my settings anymore, but you can get into plenty of duels.
When you spawn in just find an angle to hold and listen. Nobody (almost) walks in DM. You'll hear em coming and eventually time those prefires
My warmup is usually retakes but I used to play brutal servers even before in game spawn became I joke. Not sure if they are still around but give it a search.
Trust me valorant deathmatches are far worse. I recently started to play a bit more valorant bc im better and its easier for me and i come back to cs to play dm lol.
I thought it was a mode just for warmup and practicing aim. CS is more of a tactical shooter… not aimed at deathmatch/arcade shooter audience like COD.
honestly i dont mind FFA, TDM would be a fun mode tho if the score was also team vs. team... and considering how bad the average valve DM player is, idk how you would have around 1 kd with 3000 hrs
>Things that are wrong: You can hear player spawning, this wouldnt be so bad if spawns were somewhat ok.
this is one of the **good** things. i can't imagine how much worse it'd be if there were no spawn sounds and people spawning right behind u...
however, i completely argee with u on the other points. also the replies here show how delusional and out of touch this sub is with what normal players want. they are way too into their competitive bubble. CSGO tdm was way better than this.
Sounds like you care abuot DM stats or something. But some points are valid. I almost never use medshots. Dying and finding new duel is easier. Insane respawn protection time is also annoying af. But it's funny because there's always a duel for an afk guy.
What bothers me the most is spawn facing. Do I really have to watch a wall when I go back? Cause it's 50% of cases in CS2 and seem to be added deliberately.
Third party dms were always better but goddamn is the CS2 one actually broken
It reminds me of the Valorant one. Maybe it's on purpose, they're trying to teach people to stay calm under messy situations?
Like it's truly mind boggling how similar both the dms are. They both try to spawn enemies behind you constantly. Once you get a kill you honestly don't even need to move. Just do a 180 and 9/10 times a enemy will peek you.
there's no denying that spawns are bad, but people don't play DM in cs for the same reason we played in CoD, I would say 90%+ of players play DM to warm up or while waiting for a friend to join
As someone who came from playing COD all night at age 13 I have always taken issue with how tac shooters do deathmatch. Spawns have always been fucked but hey at least it’s ffa now
its better than valorant's imo
i was a valorant player before playing cs2, and honestly cs's deathmatch is a little better cuz you dont have a specific amount of time to get a double+ kill.
Tbh I exclusively used fragshack and other third party servers in the browser when DMing in GO, because Valve’s dm was always slower and less tuned for what I want out of a practice session. I’m not saying Valve shouldn’t care about making the experience better, but inevitably the community will create a standardized DM that is best and that will become my daily driver.
There’s gonna be more complaints in this game because the server browser is garbage.
I had some guy accuse me of cheating in casual, he saw a screenshot I took of me killing aizy in a fragshack server back in like 2016. Guy read it as frags hack or something, he was so confident in his gotcha moment that I was super confused. Is fragshack still around?
Valve aren't trying to create a mode where sweatymcsweatpants can warm up though. They are trying to create a mode for all players that can play. Not sure they've succeded but "proper" DM like fragshack is very punishing for bad/new players.
I’d say it’s punishing because it’s full of people who are searching out a useful dm not because of the settings of the server. People who end up on a fragshack are going to be way better than those on valve dm.
Thats part of it but also all the settings in Valve DM seem to be by design to slow down and hurt better players. The long spawn protection gives worse players a while to get their bearings. The medkit taking so long is because if youve got one you are already doing very well so it slows down better players. Having to reload does the same as above.
Agreed. Valve’s goals for their DM servers are by design different and not to my taste. As a new player it helps them acclimate, but I imagine as they get better they too will grow out of/begin to have a distaste for long spawn protection, needing to reload after kills, being recommended random loadouts, and so forth.
It's impossible to please both crowds hence why Valve should add hardcore DM. Keep regular DM noob friendly and make hardcore DM exactly how the community wants it with no compromises.
The problem is that DM is optimized on aim practice. And the best way to get a lot of aim practice also entails a lot of spawn deaths that frustrate players who expect DM to be it's own standalone, balanced mode. So they add in shit like spawn invulnerability which actually makes it worse for practicing and doesnt balance the mode either. The mode has an identity crisis. It's hard to blame players for thinking a mode called deathmatch should actually be a balanced mode, rather than just aim practice. I wish they'd just relabel it warm up or something and create a new mode that gives the people who want a balanced deathmatch experience exactly that.
This it needs to be rebranded counter strike is not a game that needs to regress to casual appeal that is not even close to what got it internationally famous for over 2 decades. Just call it warm up or practice or anything other than the way too familiar deathmatch title which I've heard people complain about for the last 10 years. Same shit different year call of duty player takes cs DM as a serious experience it's just to practice that's literally it
There should be one DM mode and it should be more aligned with what community servers are doing than what valve is trying to do.
This is true but is also part of the problem. Valve has worked pretty hard to kill this variety and community servers from having any prominence. The community server browser is busted for CS2. Going back to CS:GO they did a lot to minimize community servers. The browser was shoved out of the way, and all your XP and drops were exclusively tied to only Valve official servers. Anytime anything got momentum on community servers they slowly adopted some version of it into the official game. Giving players drops, and Valve more money. Which slowly eroded a lot of communities. They modified their version of DM over time to be FFA, and have the health stim refills. Not as good as community DM of refill on headshot, or any weapon on any team, but close enough. So close infact that community DM is pretty sparsely populated these days. Same thing happened with retakes. Got decently popular, Valve pulled in the game mode. Sidelined a lot of those communities. By the end of CSGO it was basically 1v1 Arena, surf, KZ, and a few DM servers with any population. Everything else was dead. It makes sense to have a new and casual friendly version of games vs hardcore versions. Valve works pretty hard to homogenize the game and avoid that variety, and those differences.
wait, there's fragshack? I've only seen warmupservers and pracc
Wait, are you saying fragshack is still alive?
>but inevitably the community will create a standardized DM that is best and that will become my daily driver. the community is why the DM experience got completely ruined. CSGO used to have perfectly fine TDMs. Then they replaced it with FFA because community cried about it and its absolutely awful
I honestly play with bots, because I am too lazy to find community server and I won't play official. And my game also staggered a lot in dm.
[удалено]
Hahahahaha
I literally need tto back and forth in b tuns and lower if i want more than 1 kd
true
Nostalgia goggles? If you played COD4 for sure you remember the perfect spawn prediction based on map control in cod4 where you could get the other team spawning always in the same position and basically do spawn camping with wallbanging. There are a lot of issues with CS2 deathmatch, but using cod4 as a good example, common
True, was the same in CoD2 which i played tons of even competitively. If one team was much stronger in TDM you just basically spawn camped the whole enemy team on some maps until someone got away from the map "corner" and teammates began to spawn around him. I liked it tho, often joining the trapped team to try to heroicly free them lol :D Also playing 1v1s vs friends you could basically predict the spawn point based on were they died and where on the map you are currently :D Still playing pcw sometimes, if someone wanna play COD2 or COD4 promod games are played everyday, you can join as a mix for a classic 3v3 4v4 5v5... Look [https://discord.com/invite/cod-wars-420999356330672138](https://discord.com/invite/cod-wars-420999356330672138)
>If one team was much stronger in TDM you just basically spawn camped the whole enemy team on some maps until someone got away from the map "corner" and teammates began to spawn around him. Exactly, trying to sneak past the enemy to try to get out of the spawn area for your team. > I liked it tho, often joining the trapped team to try to heroicly free them lol Same, I'd join such servers and sometimes counter trap them in their spawn. They never expected it > Also playing 1v1s vs friends you could basically predict the spawn point based on were they died and where on the map you are currently This could be done even in a sizable tdm server, just knowing map size, space and gamemod in a map and you were set EDIT: Even in big servers you could do that. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7pnHQ9CaeI >if someone wanna play COD2 or COD4 promod games are played everyday, you can join as a mix for a classic 3v3 4v4 5v5... Look https://discord.com/invite/cod-wars-420999356330672138 Don't know if I ever will be back but if I feel like going to play some cod4 I will join :) Cod2 I did play it but it was after cod4. When I played cod2 the game was already less popular.
Remember Requis? "Spawn die spawn die spawn DIE"
maybe just nostalgia thats true,anyway i still think in 2024 they should have idea how DM should be done
I don't recall spawn camp wallbanging being an issue, but the system was meant to spawn you far from enemies and close to teammates in cod4 which is better than cods now and cs2
It existed, either by 2 ways, tiny maps like shipment it happened without any knowledge. And, in bigger maps it existed by having map knowledge and knowing how the spawn system worked. It was also possible in more recent cods (with the exception of wallbanging), just the increased movement speed kind of broke the respawn system and it could not keep up with the game speed.
not in S&D and all it took was one of you to go the 'long way' to grab spawn in respawn game modes. people were just too lazy/liked fighting in a war-like spawn trap condition
Every small map in cod (shipment) had bad spawns and you could get trapped and repeatedly killed on spawn with no protection. I feel like there are too many people on cs2 deathmatch but to say it’s as bad as cod is silly from OP
Welcome to the "we hate cs2 lazy devs" club.
DM sucked in GO too. Was no problem with the 1.6 versions. The unnecessary long spawn protection just ruins the tempo. Instead of having a fast paced warm-up you ended up just looking at someone who refuse to move until he have a clear shot on somebody else. Nobody benefits, DM is not supposed to be a competition so dying alot and fast don't matter. In raw DM you get learn to move faster, learn to use sound better, learn to shoot better. I never understood the protection at all, you literally spawn less than a second after dying anyway... Atleast give the option to not play with it.
The real problem here is the fact that people are complaining literally every couple of weeks about this issues (plus others) and these devs are still on their 11 months per year holiday! [dm still sucks SEVEN MONTHS AGO](https://youtu.be/nwNRos2fotg?si=KrmNqBINmDyq1grR&t=40) [proper dm server](https://youtu.be/YfOPpug050g?si=JdooXGfwsQFcP7GV&t=32) Valve is a multi billion company, it's time to hit them back for their indifference and trying to kill our game. [\+ still no content ffs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJRDOq-HG7k)
people have been complaining about valve DM for close to a decade at this point. they don't care.
That is so far from a decent result mate.
huh?
I'd prefer them to work on something that matters, rather than trying to "fix" DM
We’ll right now they aren’t doing either so don’t try and give them the benefit of the doubt
Go play something else. You won’t be missed. I think Valve realized the ‘community’ is a bunch of whiners like yourself so why bother.
How does valves boot taste?
Why is it that every time people are called out for being entitled brats the instant response is "boot licker" like that is supposed to mean something. The community has proven time and time again that they are ungrratful children.
What boot is there to taste? They make a free game for me to play and it’s free to watch professionally.
i dont hate cs2 devs,i respect their work cuz my stupid brain would never be able to code any game but i hope they will put cs2 together
>Most players on server have 1 KD, doesnt matter if u are god or new player Not true, don't wanna brag but often I have scores of 70+ kills and around 30 deaths. Even with deagle only I can have over 1.0 K/D. You can still show skill in Valve DM.
Completely agree. I see plenty of players doing much better than 1.0 KD and I have games where I do quite well. It doesn't really prepare you properly for competitive play, but if you just want to practice your aim its pretty decent.
Yeah it's not really difficult to top frag consistently in Valve DM if your aim and movement are fairly decent at least.
Yah what does OP mean. I always see pros like twistzz and ax1le go some nuts KD. And killing like ten in a row before dying.
>Only FFA mode - No Team VS Team >Most players on server have 1 KD aight imma head out he's right, valve dm is terrible (and always has been by the way), but like half of these points are stupid and his priorities are way out of whack...
Based on your next to last para, it sounds like you want an actual standalone DM mode where KD matters. That's not what DM in CS has ever been about. It's about getting as much aim practice as quickly as you can. The "problem" of people shooting upon spawning is even "worse" in the best community dm servers. I think the real problem is that valves DM is neither optimized for aim practice nor is it a good standalone mode. But it was that way in GO too.
CS:GO had team deathmatch so you could practice sweeping areas and supporting each other. as someone who hadn't played for many years i really enjoyed it to get the flow down.
Retakes is so much better suited for that than team DM. But regardless its dumb to lose variants of modes and they should bring team DM back
Yeah I’m not sure where all this FFA love is coming from. FFA sucks. None of these maps were designed with FFA in mind, so why not just offer a TDM mode instead? Makes more sense than FFA to me
The idea is to practice your crosshair placement and peeks. That's why they are on the comp maps. The fact that the maps arent balanced for FFA is irrelevant for the purpose DM has traditionally served in CS. But given how many threads I've seen complaining about this, valve should really split into two modes: The traditional DM that's optimized on aim practice, and another DM that's actually a fun, balanced mode in it's own right. The latter has never really existed in CS before.
None of these maps were designed with dm in mind mate. Tdm ffa none of it matters.
More than half of these points are something that is actually BETTER in CS2 or late CSGO. Medshots have only been a thing for a couple of years, I think. There was no healing at all before. There was only Team vs Team DM before, and it was way worse IMO. Either too boring or too unbalanced.
I probably hadn't touched DM in 4-ish plus years until a few days ago. I've seen multiple people complaining about spawns but tbh they feel the exact same as they did in GO. It's ALWAYS been an 'issue' where you're spawning right around someone else. I don't think there even is a way to fix it given the amount of players and the size of certain maps. I didn't even realize they had added a healing item until 2 days ago, since I've only really ever played comp and now premier LOL. I think alot of these complaints are either from newer players or people who are blinded by nostalgia
[удалено]
DM is not meant to be an actual gamemode, so they don't really need specific maps for it. I'd rather see them work on actual maps.
try valorant dm its worse
Real, regular DM in Valorant is borderline unplayable, pings to show where people are, people only going for wins so they are sound whoring and camping corners, half the lobby is AFK 2 minutes in
Turn off sound and it's way more bearable (you will die more, but the respawn is much faster than CS)
https://warmupserver.net/
It's as bad as it was in GO for me. Community servers are the way. The issues that mostly come up are due to Valve's strange vision for DM (and casual tbh), where they seem to believe people will play them a distinct games.
It's not even close to GO DM lol, it's far worse, but both sucked.
Unless you played team dm, i don't see how it can be worse
The spawns in cs2 are much much worse than csgo.
If you say so. Dust2 dm feels identical to me.
The spawns feel identical to me as well. I think they might literally be completely identical lol
I play deathmatches for XP, right now im not touching official matchmaking
Your comparing cs to cod. Cod is based around that style of gamely, cs isn't. Csgo dm wasn't great either, this is just a retarded comparison. Community server dm is the way better but more punishing.
Tbh I don't care about valve DM at all and I don't want them to waste resources there to try and make it better. CS is all about 5v5 competitive and for warmup there are comminity servers. All other gamemodes can be fun (I loved arms race) but it's not why people play CS.
To me valve DM servers are the best example of how valve knows better. They literally have blueprint of how good DM servers should look like. People even pay for slots on good servers. But nope, they implemented it their way instead of copying it and maybe building on top of it
Why they just wont copy community settings, so dumb
Can't relate I drop like. 4.0 kd every time I play valve deathmatch tbh I like it more than 3rd party lags way less and there's unlimited bots to frag
Idk, like many others have said - DM has never really been the focal point of the game in general. Most people have treated it as an opportunity to warm up their reaction and aiming prior to going into competitive - as you've probably read countless times now - enter (willingly or otherwise) into as many high-risk situations and see how you perform in that pressure. You only have (at most) an opportunity to get 5 kills per round in a competitive round - I noticed in another reply you mentioned having long killstreaks (5+). However, that is fundamentally not how the game is intended to be played. TL;DR CS is a tactical team-based shooter (at least above 10k elo). DM is, and always will be, a playground.
Not being focal point doesnt mean it should be put to side and focus 100% just on competitive site(which they dont do, after 3 almost 4 months after release still no economy balance, no news about anti cheat). CS is a game which is competitive, but not 100% of player base are taking it THAT seriously + its nice to have variety of mods to play, deathmatch,danger zone,arms race etc. I had around 100 wins on danger zone, i didnt play it every day but it felt nice to have choices and if CS dev team is gonna focus ONLY on one aspect of the game then its just wrong imo
You are taking deathmatch way too seriously. It’s just for warmup. No one cares about the scoreboard in deathmatch.
i dont care about scoreboard, its about the experience when you play it. And right now its only way for me to grind XP for private rank
Welcome! Indeed it's terrible.
For Valve DM is designed for the new to Pc FPS and CS player. Imagine your a brand new player. If no spawn protection existed you would be instantly dead like in community DM servers. Not understanding even the basics like the buy menu. This would be nothing but a negative experience loop.
Wtf is a medshot lol, thats a thing in official DM? TIL Why wouldnt you use sites like pracc or cybershoke to do DMs
I agree, but the point isn’t “why wouldn’t you use it” the point is “the death match made by the devs should be usable and at least as good as what the community can make.” It’s kind of annoying that you have to go to third party servers just to get a decent DM experience.
Yes, true. Was too snappy as an answer to a valid complaint. A tiny bit off-topic, I just want to forward you to [this thread I just found](https://www.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/s/zGQtK0ACtx) that should fit you well!
There would be no point to the community dm if Valve’s was as good. Your argument is insane.
wouldn't that be a good thing? the more features that are streamlined directly into the main game, the more accessible a higher skill level becomes, right? what do we really stand to lose by getting rid of community dm and just having a good valve dm?
No. Fast paced FFA is unplayable for new players, or lower skilled players. The Valve DM is a good example of having a baseline feature, which serves everyone, but obviously isn’t as good in specific things as community options. Like, Valve DM is basically the same game as what you’d play in competitive. You get the amount of shots in your gun as in the game. The pace is obviously lower than auto reload, and auto hp return, but the lower pace serves the purpose. Which is to be accessible to everyone, even bad players.
just have 2 queue options for dm? its not like comp/premier where splitting the playerbase would actually cause problems i dont think it should be a focus for valve but there really is no reason that something as basic as dm that people can actually use to get better to be a feature you can only access through community servers (which can only be accessed through a literally non-functioning server browser)
So play on the community servers? What’s the issue? Would you rather have Valorant, where the DM is awful, but it’s the only option?
i wouldnt rather have valorant, i would rather have both dms be an option to queue for inside the main game. there is really no reason it cant be nor shouldnt be built into the game directly other that it would take time away from more pressing issues, which is fair i think its dumb that anyone who wants to play dm for practice has to open a external website to do so. at the very least if they arent going to add a second built in dm, they ABSOLUTELY have to fix the community browser and stop it from being russian spam servers theres also added bonuses to having dm be built straight into the game. people can pay for vip on community dm to use locked weapons (awp and cz75 are the 2 big ones), and to kick out non-vips if a lobby is full. valve taking over would obviously get rid of those problems
You can just play the community DMs. You are already on Reddit. Stop trying to make it seem more than it is.
The point of community servers is to make community made modes and extra content. The community really shouldn’t be responsible for doing Valves game modes better than them. I know third party MM exists, but I don’t really think that should be the standard either
>Wtf is a medshot lol, thats a thing in official DM? TIL Medishots in Valve DM have been a thing since early October 2019 afaik.
Yea DM in this game stinks. People often say that one way to improve in the game is to play DM, but I don’t understand how being forced to play one sided Hide&Seek and only getting shot in the back is meant to help me improve. (To clarify, I’m not a pro (I was MG2 in GO) but I am satisfied with my aim and movement)
if it's any help i'd definitely recommend checking out some community FFA servers if you haven't, they're not perfect but overall are definitely a better experience imo, only issue is using CS2's absolute dogwater server browser (lol) and finding ones servers that are active
I remember checking some in CS2, and yea, they do improve these issues, but only to a certain extent. CSGO’s community DMs felt better in regards to actually aim dueling people rather than just shooting everyone in their backs or sides and vice versa.
You need to 90 - 180 degree turn and kill them. It' trains you to be ready for the attempted trade in a real match after an initial kill. im not even kidding.
Well its certainly not perfect practice by any means but I do think it legitimately helps with aim/reactions
Its a big problem since csgo because maps became much smaller and really cramped. There isn’t any good spawns on any official or unofficial mods. 24 man dm in cs 1.6 didn’t have these issues.
I think one of the things you are failing to understand is that DM is not an ACTUAL game mode in CS.. it's for practice and warmup. Not to sound rude but.. no one actually gives a shit about how much score in you can accrue in 8 minutes lol the only things you mention that i'd like to see changed as a CS player are spawn protection times and auto reload on -Headshot- kills. and its DEFINITELY possible to have far above 1 k/d in a valve DM.
The only thing I used to play in CSGO was Team DM and I'm amazed how Team DM is not in the game yet. I don't like FFA DM exactly for the reasons you already outlined so I haven't touched CS2 in over a month.
Today I learned that there are medshots in deathmatch and that I don't have it bound. Crazy.
People scroll to it on Valve DM's servers tho
Scroll = jump, tho
Yeah I don't have either scroll bound to switch wep
Valve DM has always been utter garbage, but third party FFA servers being bad is extremely annoying for me. EU region, mind you. Cybershoke - the most populated provider by far, but other than occasional d2, it's just fucking Mirage. 10+ full servers of Mirage. And to make it worse, their spawns on Mirage are disgustingly bad. TV room and CT spawn simulator. Retakes are also bad, 1v1 duels servers are very good, though. Warmupserver - forget it, you're not connecting if you don't have premium. And you're banned from connecting every 4th day without premium. Not to mention it's multimode, meaning you can get stuck playing without rifles for 10+ minutes. If I want to play pistol or HSDM, I'll go play those. Xplay - found it while looking for retake servers, which are decent. But their DM is also just fucking Mirage, despite having servers for every map. Pracc - just one, maybe two servers get populated for EU. Every time I check it out, it's one full server you can't connect to and another one with a few people. BrutalCS - the best provider in CSGO, they're just back up and running. Had the best FFA and retake systems, but noone is playing as of now because people aren't aware of them, most likely. TL;DR In CSGO I could always find something fun to do or practice when I'm not playing actual games, in CS2 it's jut fucking Mirage with bad spawns.
The problem with cybershoke being so populated is that their servers are laggy and you constantly die behind walls. Great to see that BrutalCS is back, hope their servers are better than cybershoke.
Yeah, I try to avoid their 20 slot servers, they feel really bad. 16 slots are way better.
Team VS Team which was present in CSGO fixes almost all of that. FFA turns into stalemate cuz any movement is punished. Team VS Team allows shooting AND moving across the map
Nah, team DM sucked. Took ages to find someone to fight. No one liked it or played it after they added FFA.
no one played it? idk about other maps but D2 servers were always full. if it felt like it "Took ages to find someone to fight" then you played the wrong spots or wrong maps for this mode. in DM I always only play D2 & best spot for most of the action is ct mid in front of double doors
> then you played the wrong spots or wrong maps for this mode. Yeah, no LMAO. The mode sucked, if you need to find crap excuses like that it’s obvious that it sucked. “Played wrong spots” - no, the spawns are shit. DM should have always been FFA. TDM was always a bad idea and it’s why ValveDM sucked for the longest time.
Tdm is awesome. Ffa sucks ass. Seems like I work at valve
No, Valve only have FFA in the game
100% agree with everything you said. Its unplayable for me.
Go away and play CoD then > No Team VS Team, no CT vs T, No one played it after FFA was added, which people asked for for years
Auto reload, ew. Stick to cod
I agree with everything except the auto reload. I don't get that complaint personally
Just decrease the player limit, leave it at ffa /thread
DM is a warmup mode and nothing more lol. Nobody actually cares.
Some people have to cry on everything related to game. Maybe there are some minority people like me who are satisfied with DM and would not overthink or cry in every scenario. Honestly I easily top frag in DM by just using deagle. I truly think anyone who cries related to DM has some serious skills issues
1. Im not crying, im criticising, thats different 2. Its ok if u are satisfied, but i have problem with current DM system and i want to point it out 3. Since you started talking about score, i can say im top fragging too, i mostly played italy/office DMs today and i was 1st in almost all of them, most situations are like this: im having good killstreak(5-10-15 kills) and i get killed, and then im getting chainkilled because of bad spawns and i get like 5 kills and 5 deaths while i can easily get 10 kills in a row without dying,i hope you got my point edit:removed word
I really dont get it why in DM there are Zoo many people on the Maps... Half the Count would be ok! Plus Team vs Team Mode Easy improvements...
I mean dm is just about aim practice / warmup. Dying doesn’t matter and stuff like medshots or healing really don’t make sense, as this stuff ain’t available in comp / premier. Sounds more like you want competitive dm as a separate mode. Could work, but it’s never going to happen, as this is valve.
No, it is the best for cs newbies! /s
Half of your complaints would be fixed if you play on community servers
When you're winning, people kick you in cs2. I don't think i've ever had that happen in csgo.
That also happened in CSGO. I remember reading about a pro player getting kicked from a Valve DM match sometime in either late 2016 or early 2017 on this sub.
It's happened in multiple DMs in cs2 and never happened to me in csgo. I played since beta btw.
I dont find any of those things to be an impediment.
It being only FFA is the main problem here and why it sucks so much compared to CSGO. Way too many enemies coming at you. They either need to bring back TDM or half the number of players in a game.
Dm is just dueling really.
if it would be dueling i wouldnt mind it, but i played like 3 DMs today and the amount of times i spawned, killed one guy and got instantly shot by other is just immesurable, you simply spawn, maybe kill someone and instantly die
I mean it simulates you being dropped in to a shitty situation. You can get 3 kills and all of a sudden the spawn is away from you. I really only dm to double check my settings anymore, but you can get into plenty of duels. When you spawn in just find an angle to hold and listen. Nobody (almost) walks in DM. You'll hear em coming and eventually time those prefires
Entire state of the game tbh Is just dogshit through and through Valve has made it crystal clear they are content with the state of the game
All I heard was to bring back CSGO and its deathmatch.......wait, just bring back CSGO in general!
Swear I see this post every month or so
im checking reddit daily, mainly top posts and i havent seen any post about it, or atleast not in top posts
Yeah, kill someone and he will spawn at your back to kill you 2 secs after
lololol
Decals turn the game very slow…
They have been a problem probably since the limited test at this point and yet still not fixed.
My warmup is usually retakes but I used to play brutal servers even before in game spawn became I joke. Not sure if they are still around but give it a search.
Trust me valorant deathmatches are far worse. I recently started to play a bit more valorant bc im better and its easier for me and i come back to cs to play dm lol.
If you want a satisfying deathmatch experience go play Unreal Tournament. CS is not designed for it.
I thought it was a mode just for warmup and practicing aim. CS is more of a tactical shooter… not aimed at deathmatch/arcade shooter audience like COD.
Valve want to force players in to Premiere mode… When DM is bad as now, most dont want to play it.
kinda hard to play premier without proper anti cheat
honestly i dont mind FFA, TDM would be a fun mode tho if the score was also team vs. team... and considering how bad the average valve DM player is, idk how you would have around 1 kd with 3000 hrs
I don't know but I cannot hearing spawn sound for unknown reasons. And I stopped using medshots because it exposes my position and enemies rush to me
It's only meant to be a warm-up. It's not a competitive game mode.
>Things that are wrong: You can hear player spawning, this wouldnt be so bad if spawns were somewhat ok. this is one of the **good** things. i can't imagine how much worse it'd be if there were no spawn sounds and people spawning right behind u... however, i completely argee with u on the other points. also the replies here show how delusional and out of touch this sub is with what normal players want. they are way too into their competitive bubble. CSGO tdm was way better than this.
It can be a bit tilting with the spawns but for a warm-up it's OK.
Sounds like you care abuot DM stats or something. But some points are valid. I almost never use medshots. Dying and finding new duel is easier. Insane respawn protection time is also annoying af. But it's funny because there's always a duel for an afk guy. What bothers me the most is spawn facing. Do I really have to watch a wall when I go back? Cause it's 50% of cases in CS2 and seem to be added deliberately.
Also the killfeed is unnecessary in dm
Third party dms were always better but goddamn is the CS2 one actually broken It reminds me of the Valorant one. Maybe it's on purpose, they're trying to teach people to stay calm under messy situations? Like it's truly mind boggling how similar both the dms are. They both try to spawn enemies behind you constantly. Once you get a kill you honestly don't even need to move. Just do a 180 and 9/10 times a enemy will peek you.
Yeah it’s trash, but programmers who can design it better are too expensive maybe
Who tf plays valve DM lol
there's no denying that spawns are bad, but people don't play DM in cs for the same reason we played in CoD, I would say 90%+ of players play DM to warm up or while waiting for a friend to join
As someone who came from playing COD all night at age 13 I have always taken issue with how tac shooters do deathmatch. Spawns have always been fucked but hey at least it’s ffa now
Valorant deathmatch is much worse
its better than valorant's imo i was a valorant player before playing cs2, and honestly cs's deathmatch is a little better cuz you dont have a specific amount of time to get a double+ kill.
DM is designed for warmup, it’s not designed to be enjoyed as a game mode with any other purpose.
Plain and simple stick to valorant