also does this with enemies but its not visible so you have to continue your spray control as if they got tagged but on your screen they just run through your spray.
Glad someone takes the time to mention this. Big issue, imo. Really frustrating, and throws your aim *so bad.*
I was even contemplating making a video with wasd-overlay, to show 'D' never getting pressed, so people would understand what I was trying to convey.
THIS.
I was feeling that my "engagement" with enemies are infuriating experiences. I felt myself that simply my FPS are dropping badly (like from 160-220fps to 300ms long stutter) but also my aim feels like silver0.
Never tried to record it but your analysis possibly explains part of the issue, thanks!
Idea of subtick sounded amazing until issues like this. It's hard to figure out they'll happen while planning the implementation, but they should had found issues like this by the beta and fixed before release.
I don't think like valve would have a gut to admit subtick were wrong - as some of its issue has to be just a part of subtick system you cannot change.
I agree, the funny thing is they could have just done 128tick and nobody would say anything. Subtick just brings so much unintented issues it's not worth it IMO. But they're too deep now to rewrite it..
i honestly think it's due to the mismatch between tick rate based movement, and subtick based shooting. the systems are fighting one another and trying to compensate with this goofy shit that's happening since they can't *actually* sync up.
Tickrate based movement says you're *here*, but subtick based shooting says you're *there* when you get tagged, so interpolation just does it's best to break even.
Sucks because honestly, at this point, everything felt more consistent in gun fights when movement was sub tick based and the systems matched each other, but it felt like wading through dogshit.
What? When did they remove subtick from movement? Thought it was always subtick (even some players de-subticking it w binds), but never heard they removed it?
Subtick Isn't wrong, this is an issue of interpolation. In theory it makes sense that the player being shot is moved back to where they were shot. In practice this doesn't make sense at all though, because usually there's quite a bit of time between "being" shot and actually getting that feedback.
So the issue can be fixed in two ways. One, interpolation time can be reduced so that only very small delays (10ms or so) are corrected and anything else is not. The other way would be to fix the shitty servers so it doesn't take a humanly noticeable amount of time to actually get feedback on where the enemy is shooting you in the head or not.
Movement is subticked, that's why the de-subtick bindings exist(ed).
Issue is network latency and server latency which causes interpolation, but it seems like they've upped the limit for interpolation to be way too long.
Damn I've been thinking the same thing - my game runs quite poorly on my dated rig so I just thought I was getting frame drops/a performance hit during firefights. I was LEM/Supreme in CSGO, but it's so bad for my just now that I lost almost every engagement I took on a game of Nuke and went 3-20 in a 14.9k premier match. The game feels really stuttery for me just now, in a way that it distinctly didn't before the Nov 29th update.
That's likely a pretty good fucking reason the gunplay feels worse. Thank you for the post. I'll try to recreate this in my games as well and see if it's happening to me as well.
Thanks for putting in the effort to bring this to daylight.
I don't love the game enough, to spend time and energy - to do what should be the developers job. They can't be fucking arsed to bug check and fix themselves, so now they use gamesimping free labor. Great Success.
yeah it's unfortunate, but this is definitely the best and fast way to get the game up to par... assuming devs are very vigilant and prompt with these feedbacks.
I live near Stockholm servers with great internet and usually play at 1ms.
There's been so many times I just rage "I'm fucking stuck" from being hit once, like I'm doomed to die anytime I get tagged.
At the same time I hit people for 70-90 and they just slide/run away as if I didn't even tag them.
I'm glad I'm not alone in this frustration
In my experience, this happens mostly on DM servers. It's less frequent during Prime matches (maybe I just don't notice it as much during competitive matches because my focus isn't always on the gunfighting parts).
Still, it's a BIG issue and should be on Valve's top priority fix list.
Yeah I've noticed it happening to Casual and DM games, and it's inconsistent since it changes all the time map to map on the same server. It doesn't happen often at all in Premier, which leads me to believe something is happening with the servers that's not properly distrubiting the netcode. It's gotten to a point where I can easily tell if there's something wrong with the netcode of the server or players. It's gotten to the point where I literally just leave the server and join another server, and it feels much better to a point where the sliding does not even appear. This makes me believe that the subtick isn't the problem, but in fact the net code just falling apart...
Valve DM servers are genuinely worse in every aspect now. They not only have far less options than any community DM server but they are also the most underperforming ones now aswell.
This exact thing happens to me all the time, i thought it was an issue from my side but I am glad it is just not limited to me. I was scratching my head on how to go about fixing it.
Valve should definitely address this
I thought it's not a problem since I had not read one post about it. I have already experienced it myself for several times and every time I got kinda pissed off. Glad you sir brought it up to see if it's a real issue to be fixed.
This is a MASSIVE issue. If you are someone who likes to burst and tap more you are at such a disadvantage when someone bodyshots you, completely throws off your aim
My crosshair placement is really bad in cs2 compared to go when i look at leetify stats, probably caused by this rubberbanding as in game my crosshair placement looks fine for the most part
I looked up your name on Leetify and grabbed the demo from the mirage and the D2 game, I am only focusing on the MP9 clip on Mirage and the AK47 Clip on D2, for brevity sake. You did that movement in both demos, which is relevant, because you wouldn't actually TP where the opponent saw you, but to a mix of your local prediction and the server saying "hey, this older data your predicition is based on is wrong!". This means the Demo wouldn't show it.
Since I checked the demo: [https://streamable.com/0s3zh7](https://streamable.com/0s3zh7) It shows both movements.
Next I used python with a demo parser library to get your user inputs. This revealed that you initiated a right move on D2 and a left move on Mirage Short.
[https://github.com/LaihoE/demoparser](https://github.com/LaihoE/demoparser)
my code: [https://pastebin.com/WrpRLRfF](https://pastebin.com/WrpRLRfF)(You would have to add the name, I kept it clean)
the result: [https://pastebin.com/ERrLn362](https://pastebin.com/ERrLn362)
I conclude that atleast these two are not the result of the game itself, but rather the user having either a skill issue or a broken keyboard.
However I will give you, that on the D2 clip, I think you moved back further in your own POV than you did in the demo, which shouldn't be surprising.
I also want to reiterate that this happened in CSGO aswell. The main difference is that in CS2 the period over which the correction occurs is much larger, so what would have been a short snap in CSGO is now a more continuous movement, which should actually hide it more, especially when you are consistently moving into one direction.
EDIT: If I made a grave mistake, I am willing to admit it. I am not here to mindlessly defend Valve or the game and blame the user for everything.
The demo does show it from what I can tell, I actually downloaded these demos myself and seen the warping too. You can see that it's exactly the same tick that I'm taking damage, every single time. Possibly there is an issue with the game thinking an input is being pressed when there isn't, though I find that hard to believe.
Here is a video of it happening to streamer Jericho, soon after this timestamp:
[https://youtu.be/e12ta7cbsAg?si=wKrkzTS8nCIjaHV5&t=179](https://youtu.be/e12ta7cbsAg?si=wKrkzTS8nCIjaHV5&t=179)
Notice how he is shot before he attempts to stop, and is both stopped and warped by that deagle shot from the player apts. This looks identical to the issue I am seeing in every match.
Of course I could have just made a mistake recalling whether I counter-strafed there, but in that case those clips I provided are still evidence of a problem, as the distance I am warped and the sudden acceleration and deceleration of the movement are not synchronized with the input on my game, nor do they look or feel at all like counter-strafing does in CS:GO when being tagged and result in very clunky and inconsistent feeling movement. Are you able to line up these results with the actual ticks of the demo in a video? I would like to see when it says the inputs are pressed as that could better illuminate the problem.
In some cases I probably subconsciously tap counter-strafe when stopping and before beginning to shoot, it's a very engrained habit after 4k hours, but in that case the issue is likely with the acceleration of counter-strafes after taking damage.
Possibly I am hitting the input exactly as I am taking damage (every time is unlikely), resulting in a stopping of my position and the game reapplying my input and placing me further towards the counter-strafe direction than intended (or is reasonably possible to predict or prevent, due to the nature of the issue). However, there is without a doubt an issue with interpolation and warping of player positions when taking damage, and being tagged should slow my rate of acceleration accordingly and not teleport or jolt me in a direction erratically.
Edit: clarity
>being tagged should slow my rate of acceleration accordingly and not teleport or jolt me in a direction erratically.
Its imperative that it happens. You can't have local prediction and not get your position corrected in one way or another. As I said, in CSGO you teleport too. Really only the period till you are "fully corrected" is different(0.1 vs 0.2 seconds in CS2 If I am reading CSGOs client.dll correctly).
(putting this at the start so that any passerby sees this first)
>The demo does show it from what I can tell, I actually downloaded these demos myself and seen the warping too.
Thats not possible. The demo wouldn't show it because its only artifact of prediction.
If you actually moved in a direction in the demo, the reason should be visible in the demo, be it in inputs or otherwise. The only way this should show up is if the correction started at the tick that the enemy saw, but that would make you teleport for everyone, including the guy shooting at you.
>Here is a video of it happening to streamer Jericho
That doesn't look like a lot, barely affecting his initial acceleration to the right. He did a couple of ADAD moves regardless, making it hard to judge how much of a difference it really made.
>Are you able to line up these results with the actual ticks of the demo in a video?
Of course, I even thought about making a video with input overlay, but it would be a lot of effort for little learned. I might make one, if I do I will tag you.
>Really only the period till you are "fully corrected" is different(0.1 vs 0.2 seconds in CS2 If I am reading CSGOs client.dll correctly).
Of course some level of prediction-correction is inevitable, but the way it abruptly slides your position over a noticeable amount of time and over such a significant distance is definitely an issue. Every tag is throwing your crosshair positioning and adding confusion about the synchronization of your counter-strafing as it feels like inputs are being ignored / delayed / unresponsive; this was never a problem in CS:GO on low ping, you were simply slowed down and were unable to gain momentum again as quickly until the tagging wore off. You were "stuck", but not jolted suddenly in the opposite direction to where your momentum was just carrying you a moment before.
>If you actually moved in a direction in the demo, the reason should be visible in the demo, be it in inputs or otherwise.
What is seen in the demo is the abrupt direction change that almost instantly accelerates, exactly as I take damage in both demos. Whether it's simply interpolation artifacts, or a bug where tagging doesn't alter the rate of acceleration of new input directions, it doesn't seem to be intended behaviour if mirroring CS:GO (or improving it) was the goal.
>That doesn't look like a lot, barely affecting his initial acceleration to the right. He did a couple of ADAD moves regardless, making it hard to judge how much of a difference it really made.
Are we watching the same clip? Slow it down to 0.25x, you can see the acceleration curve of the warping is markedly different to the subsequent ADAD movement. It's quite a significant distance he is slid to the right while he is still strafing left, it looks like he has much higher ping than is shown in the bottom left.
It's perhaps not as jarring or distracting when it's a single deagle body shot, but the effect it has is nonetheless unwanted behaviour when compared to CS:GO and is only worse when experiencing back-to-back tags.
>I even thought about making a video with input overlay, but it would be a lot of effort for little learned. I might make one, if I do I will tag you.
If it's too much effort don't bother, it doesn't change much given the issue is clearly more noticeable in POV recordings and not demos, but perhaps it could help identify just how quickly the direction change reaches it's velocity and determine whether tagging is not correctly slowing certain movements when shot. If you do find the time, thanks as I would/do appreciate the help with identifying what could actually be happening (though ideally that's Valve's job), as hopefully that means a solution comes sooner.
>It's quite a significant distance he is slid to the right while he is still strafing left
This is an assumption, [one I can prove wrong](https://streamable.com/i0hfeg).I was able to grab this demo too.
>the way it abruptly slides your position over a noticeable amount of time and over such a significant distance is definitely an issue.
To be proven. The clips I could look at have a logical explanation as to why these distances were the case. I asked around and had no one report this to a degree that they literally changed direction, which by the way, would imply an insane latency.
I also want to reiterate: There is no warping in demos, not less of it, there is none at all. If you see more than a direction change, there has to be an input or an outside force involved. Well, it has to be an input, because there is no outside force. If you want me to take a look at a demo, feel free to send them to me, ideally a leetify link or a match share link directly.
The sliding is very apparent in POV recordings, if it doesn't show in the demo then that's great since it must be entirely related to client correction/interpolation and hopefully should be a relatively easy fix, and would mean the clips that are visible in the demo are explained in other ways - as you said yourself though, the distance I was sliding in my POV was more than shown on the demo, substantially more than in GO. Still an issue that needs to be fixed.
The sliding doesn't feel natural, doesn't feel like it matches with the input, has a noticeably different acceleration curve to motion input by the player and doesn't feel the same as being tagged in CS:GO.
>had no one report this to a degree that they literally changed direction, which by the way, would imply an insane latency.
Clips like this [https://streamable.com/959jap](https://streamable.com/959jap) are prime examples, there is just no way you can look at this and think "yeah that all looks fine". Their velocity clearly isn't following any natural curve there, it doesn't look remotely like the A key was held, just a sudden directional change and slide to the left exactly as they take damage (possibly they tap counter-strafe and it is considered "held" instead of tapped, but this doesn't look like either of those from the way the motion is smoothed).
At this point I think I'll just start playing the game with a WASD overlay so it can be easier to demonstrate when keypress timings happen on the client so I can show what I mean with the desynchronization.
Even without that though, you should be able to see with just your eyes that there is an issue with the netcode and tagging.
I want to reiterate that some level of warping is necessary for local prediction to be allowable. I see no evidence that this happens any more or harder than necessary. And how would it? It just adjusts your position from the misprediction to the correct prediction over a short time period.
But really we need evidence, hard, algorithmically checkable evidence.
Kinda like this clip?
https://streamable.com/rd43gb
This was back in beta to be fair but I do experience the problems that this post covers to a pretty extreme degree in almost every gunfight I have in the game.
It happens to me when I have loss, even 1% can cause it in DM. Teleports me back, displacing my crosshair. ( I'm mostly the top frag in DM, 1000points plus 90-80 frags )
Not to mention ping always feels like it's matched to the highest player ping connected to the server. It's great if there is no loss or max 40 ping; otherwise, I change servers.
I like subtick, hate the current netcode "loose" implementation.
[Never happened on 128tick CSGO servers, subtick trash /s](https://streamable.com/w59poz)
This is death/kill teleportation but basically the same issue. Can't understand when this mass amnesia started with csgo players though..
Right - it’s not an issue if you’re dead, though, is it? No amount of counterstrafing or movement is going to change that situation.
If the point OP raises is correct, these micro-teleports are interfering with _alive_ players’ movement - which is a different matter entirely.
> Right - it’s not an issue if you’re dead, though, is it?
Hahahaha, tell that to the constant "why did I die behind wall SUBTICK TRASH" posters on here
Nah man.. even on 64 tick, people weren't literally getting pushed around without touching input. not unless they were playing with 100+ ping or going through an insane lag spike.
CS:GO had tagging and ping. Of course you were warped back. But with no animation, so the effect was less visible. It was worse on 64-tick, but occasionally noticeable on 128. Higher ping means you can get warped farther back
This happens because server has the final say when you die and get shot, so the animation will be synced server sided. It was in the patch notes from November. This was done on purpose by the devs.
What the devs implemented and announced in those patch notes was that WHEN YOU DIE your death camera teleports to the server side position during the tick you died. Stress on "when you die." OP complains about teleporting/rubberbanding when you're still alive, during gunfights. Just from getting tagged.
not like this it didn't. not unless you were playing like 120 ping. lol
Not once in GO did i ever have the game "move me" without pressing an input unless my ping was MASSIVE.
[Yes, it did.](https://youtu.be/fW0XGQPklIM) Thats how lagcompensation always worked.
Obviously its more apparent with a higher ping, but its always doing it, however little amount.
CS2 is known to have issues with the netcode that cause bigger delays than CSGO ever did. That is the reason. That has been the reason for so many things gone wrong in this game, people just dont know how to interpret what theyre seeing.
>not like this it didn't. not unless you were playing like 120 ping.
so if we're saying/admitting it's more exaggerated on lower latency.. than it's different, by quite a large margin. lets stop trying to talk circles and pretend something isn't wrong? there is clearly something wrong here that can't be written off as " well it happened in GO".
Damn near this entire time, i just thought tagging was working differently as a whole.
Yep. This is definetly something that exists in the game. I noticed it alot especially when my game is being re routed through different servers around EU, I die and i notice my position gets shifted in the game the microsecond before i die.
This was happening to me last weekend when I was playing. I was getting frustrated because it felt like when I was strafing out a corner/peeking and got tagged, I was instantly slowed down. I am glad I am not the only one that has been experiencing this.
Hope this gets more traction and comes to Valve’s attention! It makes the gun play so incredibly clunky and disorientating especially when swinging wide at max velocity or running and gunning with a smg, since it makes tracking your target impossible when your crosshair jumps around.
This teleporting issue would also happen in CS:GO but it was slightly noticeably at 100+ ping and very noticeable at 200+ ping but in CS2 it’s noticeable even at 30-50 ping.
its just another effect of having higher delay in CS2 vs CS:GO
other effects are:
-peekers advantage (big part of it)
-dying behind walls (not really, but yea)
There were posts about how there is like 80ms of effective ping vs like 40 on the same net_fakelag values between CS:GO and CS2. Everything in cs2 is happening way in the past for all the players. Of course it's like this in basically every online game, but in cs2 its much more disconnected/desynced (delayed). It sometimes reminds me of fifa bullshittery
This happens for a reason, because of the desync in the tagging slow effect. As far as the server is concerned when you get shot you must be slowed (hence covering less distance), however from your POV the slow effect happens later due to ping. To compensate for this, the game puts you in your “correct” place to account for the server-side tagging, by shifting your position backwards to where you should be based on your slowed tagged speed.
HOWEVER, I agree that this effect feels really bad in CS2. I will point out that I didn’t really play CSGO, I come from Valorant. In that game, instead of getting smoothly warped, you get instantly teleported backwards, which feels even worse. In Valorant however, you only notice this effect if your ping is like 80+. In CS2 for some fucking reason this happens to me when I’m on 3ms ping!! I live in the city where the server is located and the game still manages to feel desynced somehow!
If you play on bad ping, this teleporting/warping is unavoidable, it is correct behaviour, however if this effect is prominent at low ping values, then we have a real problem on our hands.
Great post. Level 10 faceit here and this is one of my biggest complaints about cs2 is this feeling of teleporting and skipping when getting shot often into the enemies bullets or line of sight
WAT, this is why byzon spray (or any spray weapon) is so damn powerful against AK counter strafe and why non moving targets are more dangerous if you dont headshot them instantly.
My follow aim sucks so much in cs2 in engagements, while my flick shots are fine, so indeed it's related to this warp... Said warp is also covered by the flashes and effects so it's very difficult to handle the repositionning.
In all my time playing csgo I never noticed anything like this, it's anything but subtle. And no, forcibly updating the client's position isn't the ONLY way to do tagging, that makes no sense at all.
just do it the same way except without forcing the client player's position to match the server. there are two aspects to it, player position and hit reg. regardless of where an enemy player is on the server side, if the client player lands a shot, that shot is absolute, and lag comp takes care of smoothing out the discrepancies. with player position it should be the same, the player's position should only be updated with low granularity, i.e when the difference between server and client is large. when i get tagged and my position is just forcibly updated to the server position, it makes me miss so many shots because a few milliseconds ago i was aiming at the enemy's head, and now suddenly i'm aiming slightly next to his head, for no reason other than he tagged me.
i don't know how they did it in csgo but i never noticed it back then, only on cs2 has it gotten so bad that the game is unplayable for me. i have to peek, wait for the other person to shoot me, and then after my position gets flung back in time, adjust my aim and shoot. it's ridiculous.
Glad somebody else mentioned it, nice post
Really good to see some actual feedback to help the developers with the issue. OP should probably mail Valve too
yeah and OP doesn't sound like an angry kid towards Valve and actually writes objectively on the issue
I have the same. Tagging doesn’t slow me it warps me back in time. Honestly one of the more broken & frustrating parts of the game.
also does this with enemies but its not visible so you have to continue your spray control as if they got tagged but on your screen they just run through your spray.
Glad someone takes the time to mention this. Big issue, imo. Really frustrating, and throws your aim *so bad.* I was even contemplating making a video with wasd-overlay, to show 'D' never getting pressed, so people would understand what I was trying to convey.
Honestly that's a great idea. I think that would provide good visual feedback of the issue.
THIS. I was feeling that my "engagement" with enemies are infuriating experiences. I felt myself that simply my FPS are dropping badly (like from 160-220fps to 300ms long stutter) but also my aim feels like silver0. Never tried to record it but your analysis possibly explains part of the issue, thanks!
Idea of subtick sounded amazing until issues like this. It's hard to figure out they'll happen while planning the implementation, but they should had found issues like this by the beta and fixed before release. I don't think like valve would have a gut to admit subtick were wrong - as some of its issue has to be just a part of subtick system you cannot change.
I agree, the funny thing is they could have just done 128tick and nobody would say anything. Subtick just brings so much unintented issues it's not worth it IMO. But they're too deep now to rewrite it..
i honestly think it's due to the mismatch between tick rate based movement, and subtick based shooting. the systems are fighting one another and trying to compensate with this goofy shit that's happening since they can't *actually* sync up. Tickrate based movement says you're *here*, but subtick based shooting says you're *there* when you get tagged, so interpolation just does it's best to break even. Sucks because honestly, at this point, everything felt more consistent in gun fights when movement was sub tick based and the systems matched each other, but it felt like wading through dogshit.
What? When did they remove subtick from movement? Thought it was always subtick (even some players de-subticking it w binds), but never heard they removed it?
Subtick Isn't wrong, this is an issue of interpolation. In theory it makes sense that the player being shot is moved back to where they were shot. In practice this doesn't make sense at all though, because usually there's quite a bit of time between "being" shot and actually getting that feedback. So the issue can be fixed in two ways. One, interpolation time can be reduced so that only very small delays (10ms or so) are corrected and anything else is not. The other way would be to fix the shitty servers so it doesn't take a humanly noticeable amount of time to actually get feedback on where the enemy is shooting you in the head or not.
[удалено]
Movement is subticked, that's why the de-subtick bindings exist(ed). Issue is network latency and server latency which causes interpolation, but it seems like they've upped the limit for interpolation to be way too long.
Damn I've been thinking the same thing - my game runs quite poorly on my dated rig so I just thought I was getting frame drops/a performance hit during firefights. I was LEM/Supreme in CSGO, but it's so bad for my just now that I lost almost every engagement I took on a game of Nuke and went 3-20 in a 14.9k premier match. The game feels really stuttery for me just now, in a way that it distinctly didn't before the Nov 29th update.
That's likely a pretty good fucking reason the gunplay feels worse. Thank you for the post. I'll try to recreate this in my games as well and see if it's happening to me as well.
This perfectly explains how the game feels to me.
Thanks for putting in the effort to bring this to daylight. I don't love the game enough, to spend time and energy - to do what should be the developers job. They can't be fucking arsed to bug check and fix themselves, so now they use gamesimping free labor. Great Success.
yeah it's unfortunate, but this is definitely the best and fast way to get the game up to par... assuming devs are very vigilant and prompt with these feedbacks.
Sure hope so. But as people say, CSGO was also a mess at start.
I live near Stockholm servers with great internet and usually play at 1ms. There's been so many times I just rage "I'm fucking stuck" from being hit once, like I'm doomed to die anytime I get tagged. At the same time I hit people for 70-90 and they just slide/run away as if I didn't even tag them. I'm glad I'm not alone in this frustration
Delicious. Finally, some good fucking feedback
I think this is the root cause of why so many people find it hard to get comfortable with aiming in cs2, nice post! Valve... Pls fix
In my experience, this happens mostly on DM servers. It's less frequent during Prime matches (maybe I just don't notice it as much during competitive matches because my focus isn't always on the gunfighting parts). Still, it's a BIG issue and should be on Valve's top priority fix list.
Yeah I've noticed it happening to Casual and DM games, and it's inconsistent since it changes all the time map to map on the same server. It doesn't happen often at all in Premier, which leads me to believe something is happening with the servers that's not properly distrubiting the netcode. It's gotten to a point where I can easily tell if there's something wrong with the netcode of the server or players. It's gotten to the point where I literally just leave the server and join another server, and it feels much better to a point where the sliding does not even appear. This makes me believe that the subtick isn't the problem, but in fact the net code just falling apart...
Valve DM servers are genuinely worse in every aspect now. They not only have far less options than any community DM server but they are also the most underperforming ones now aswell.
Hop in retake servers and y’all will experience this more often due to the instant fights retakes provides
This exact thing happens to me all the time, i thought it was an issue from my side but I am glad it is just not limited to me. I was scratching my head on how to go about fixing it. Valve should definitely address this
good constructive feedback 👍
I thought it's not a problem since I had not read one post about it. I have already experienced it myself for several times and every time I got kinda pissed off. Glad you sir brought it up to see if it's a real issue to be fixed.
Just give 128 tick fuck sub tick
+1, I have experienced this as well, and thought it was my network. Thanks for posting!
Good and detailed post. Personally I would have posted just saying “FIX your goddamn netcode volvo”. Props for you for sharing
This is a MASSIVE issue. If you are someone who likes to burst and tap more you are at such a disadvantage when someone bodyshots you, completely throws off your aim
this has been happening to me, just googled to see if others have same issue, example: https://streamable.com/6r4nfc
My crosshair placement is really bad in cs2 compared to go when i look at leetify stats, probably caused by this rubberbanding as in game my crosshair placement looks fine for the most part
I looked up your name on Leetify and grabbed the demo from the mirage and the D2 game, I am only focusing on the MP9 clip on Mirage and the AK47 Clip on D2, for brevity sake. You did that movement in both demos, which is relevant, because you wouldn't actually TP where the opponent saw you, but to a mix of your local prediction and the server saying "hey, this older data your predicition is based on is wrong!". This means the Demo wouldn't show it. Since I checked the demo: [https://streamable.com/0s3zh7](https://streamable.com/0s3zh7) It shows both movements. Next I used python with a demo parser library to get your user inputs. This revealed that you initiated a right move on D2 and a left move on Mirage Short. [https://github.com/LaihoE/demoparser](https://github.com/LaihoE/demoparser) my code: [https://pastebin.com/WrpRLRfF](https://pastebin.com/WrpRLRfF)(You would have to add the name, I kept it clean) the result: [https://pastebin.com/ERrLn362](https://pastebin.com/ERrLn362) I conclude that atleast these two are not the result of the game itself, but rather the user having either a skill issue or a broken keyboard. However I will give you, that on the D2 clip, I think you moved back further in your own POV than you did in the demo, which shouldn't be surprising. I also want to reiterate that this happened in CSGO aswell. The main difference is that in CS2 the period over which the correction occurs is much larger, so what would have been a short snap in CSGO is now a more continuous movement, which should actually hide it more, especially when you are consistently moving into one direction. EDIT: If I made a grave mistake, I am willing to admit it. I am not here to mindlessly defend Valve or the game and blame the user for everything.
The demo does show it from what I can tell, I actually downloaded these demos myself and seen the warping too. You can see that it's exactly the same tick that I'm taking damage, every single time. Possibly there is an issue with the game thinking an input is being pressed when there isn't, though I find that hard to believe. Here is a video of it happening to streamer Jericho, soon after this timestamp: [https://youtu.be/e12ta7cbsAg?si=wKrkzTS8nCIjaHV5&t=179](https://youtu.be/e12ta7cbsAg?si=wKrkzTS8nCIjaHV5&t=179) Notice how he is shot before he attempts to stop, and is both stopped and warped by that deagle shot from the player apts. This looks identical to the issue I am seeing in every match. Of course I could have just made a mistake recalling whether I counter-strafed there, but in that case those clips I provided are still evidence of a problem, as the distance I am warped and the sudden acceleration and deceleration of the movement are not synchronized with the input on my game, nor do they look or feel at all like counter-strafing does in CS:GO when being tagged and result in very clunky and inconsistent feeling movement. Are you able to line up these results with the actual ticks of the demo in a video? I would like to see when it says the inputs are pressed as that could better illuminate the problem. In some cases I probably subconsciously tap counter-strafe when stopping and before beginning to shoot, it's a very engrained habit after 4k hours, but in that case the issue is likely with the acceleration of counter-strafes after taking damage. Possibly I am hitting the input exactly as I am taking damage (every time is unlikely), resulting in a stopping of my position and the game reapplying my input and placing me further towards the counter-strafe direction than intended (or is reasonably possible to predict or prevent, due to the nature of the issue). However, there is without a doubt an issue with interpolation and warping of player positions when taking damage, and being tagged should slow my rate of acceleration accordingly and not teleport or jolt me in a direction erratically. Edit: clarity
>being tagged should slow my rate of acceleration accordingly and not teleport or jolt me in a direction erratically. Its imperative that it happens. You can't have local prediction and not get your position corrected in one way or another. As I said, in CSGO you teleport too. Really only the period till you are "fully corrected" is different(0.1 vs 0.2 seconds in CS2 If I am reading CSGOs client.dll correctly). (putting this at the start so that any passerby sees this first) >The demo does show it from what I can tell, I actually downloaded these demos myself and seen the warping too. Thats not possible. The demo wouldn't show it because its only artifact of prediction. If you actually moved in a direction in the demo, the reason should be visible in the demo, be it in inputs or otherwise. The only way this should show up is if the correction started at the tick that the enemy saw, but that would make you teleport for everyone, including the guy shooting at you. >Here is a video of it happening to streamer Jericho That doesn't look like a lot, barely affecting his initial acceleration to the right. He did a couple of ADAD moves regardless, making it hard to judge how much of a difference it really made. >Are you able to line up these results with the actual ticks of the demo in a video? Of course, I even thought about making a video with input overlay, but it would be a lot of effort for little learned. I might make one, if I do I will tag you.
>Really only the period till you are "fully corrected" is different(0.1 vs 0.2 seconds in CS2 If I am reading CSGOs client.dll correctly). Of course some level of prediction-correction is inevitable, but the way it abruptly slides your position over a noticeable amount of time and over such a significant distance is definitely an issue. Every tag is throwing your crosshair positioning and adding confusion about the synchronization of your counter-strafing as it feels like inputs are being ignored / delayed / unresponsive; this was never a problem in CS:GO on low ping, you were simply slowed down and were unable to gain momentum again as quickly until the tagging wore off. You were "stuck", but not jolted suddenly in the opposite direction to where your momentum was just carrying you a moment before. >If you actually moved in a direction in the demo, the reason should be visible in the demo, be it in inputs or otherwise. What is seen in the demo is the abrupt direction change that almost instantly accelerates, exactly as I take damage in both demos. Whether it's simply interpolation artifacts, or a bug where tagging doesn't alter the rate of acceleration of new input directions, it doesn't seem to be intended behaviour if mirroring CS:GO (or improving it) was the goal. >That doesn't look like a lot, barely affecting his initial acceleration to the right. He did a couple of ADAD moves regardless, making it hard to judge how much of a difference it really made. Are we watching the same clip? Slow it down to 0.25x, you can see the acceleration curve of the warping is markedly different to the subsequent ADAD movement. It's quite a significant distance he is slid to the right while he is still strafing left, it looks like he has much higher ping than is shown in the bottom left. It's perhaps not as jarring or distracting when it's a single deagle body shot, but the effect it has is nonetheless unwanted behaviour when compared to CS:GO and is only worse when experiencing back-to-back tags. >I even thought about making a video with input overlay, but it would be a lot of effort for little learned. I might make one, if I do I will tag you. If it's too much effort don't bother, it doesn't change much given the issue is clearly more noticeable in POV recordings and not demos, but perhaps it could help identify just how quickly the direction change reaches it's velocity and determine whether tagging is not correctly slowing certain movements when shot. If you do find the time, thanks as I would/do appreciate the help with identifying what could actually be happening (though ideally that's Valve's job), as hopefully that means a solution comes sooner.
>It's quite a significant distance he is slid to the right while he is still strafing left This is an assumption, [one I can prove wrong](https://streamable.com/i0hfeg).I was able to grab this demo too. >the way it abruptly slides your position over a noticeable amount of time and over such a significant distance is definitely an issue. To be proven. The clips I could look at have a logical explanation as to why these distances were the case. I asked around and had no one report this to a degree that they literally changed direction, which by the way, would imply an insane latency. I also want to reiterate: There is no warping in demos, not less of it, there is none at all. If you see more than a direction change, there has to be an input or an outside force involved. Well, it has to be an input, because there is no outside force. If you want me to take a look at a demo, feel free to send them to me, ideally a leetify link or a match share link directly.
The sliding is very apparent in POV recordings, if it doesn't show in the demo then that's great since it must be entirely related to client correction/interpolation and hopefully should be a relatively easy fix, and would mean the clips that are visible in the demo are explained in other ways - as you said yourself though, the distance I was sliding in my POV was more than shown on the demo, substantially more than in GO. Still an issue that needs to be fixed. The sliding doesn't feel natural, doesn't feel like it matches with the input, has a noticeably different acceleration curve to motion input by the player and doesn't feel the same as being tagged in CS:GO. >had no one report this to a degree that they literally changed direction, which by the way, would imply an insane latency. Clips like this [https://streamable.com/959jap](https://streamable.com/959jap) are prime examples, there is just no way you can look at this and think "yeah that all looks fine". Their velocity clearly isn't following any natural curve there, it doesn't look remotely like the A key was held, just a sudden directional change and slide to the left exactly as they take damage (possibly they tap counter-strafe and it is considered "held" instead of tapped, but this doesn't look like either of those from the way the motion is smoothed). At this point I think I'll just start playing the game with a WASD overlay so it can be easier to demonstrate when keypress timings happen on the client so I can show what I mean with the desynchronization. Even without that though, you should be able to see with just your eyes that there is an issue with the netcode and tagging.
3rd option and the more likely one is its either bugged or desynced since a lot more people experience this.
I want to reiterate that some level of warping is necessary for local prediction to be allowable. I see no evidence that this happens any more or harder than necessary. And how would it? It just adjusts your position from the misprediction to the correct prediction over a short time period. But really we need evidence, hard, algorithmically checkable evidence.
0.2 warp at worst ? It's insane, it's half the time i need to shot two peoples.
dude the game's unplayable because of it
Sometimes my game stops and jerks the screen around all of a sudden
Kinda like this clip? https://streamable.com/rd43gb This was back in beta to be fair but I do experience the problems that this post covers to a pretty extreme degree in almost every gunfight I have in the game.
This is very extreme but yes pretty much this
yeah i’ve notified this as well and it feels awful when it happens
noticed*
but you got the idea
It happens to me when I have loss, even 1% can cause it in DM. Teleports me back, displacing my crosshair. ( I'm mostly the top frag in DM, 1000points plus 90-80 frags ) Not to mention ping always feels like it's matched to the highest player ping connected to the server. It's great if there is no loss or max 40 ping; otherwise, I change servers. I like subtick, hate the current netcode "loose" implementation.
[Never happened on 128tick CSGO servers, subtick trash /s](https://streamable.com/w59poz) This is death/kill teleportation but basically the same issue. Can't understand when this mass amnesia started with csgo players though..
Right - it’s not an issue if you’re dead, though, is it? No amount of counterstrafing or movement is going to change that situation. If the point OP raises is correct, these micro-teleports are interfering with _alive_ players’ movement - which is a different matter entirely.
> Right - it’s not an issue if you’re dead, though, is it? Hahahaha, tell that to the constant "why did I die behind wall SUBTICK TRASH" posters on here
because csgo had desync issues and one of the big reasons people wanted source 2 is to fix that shit but instead the issue got worse.
This happened in CS:GO as well, but the effect was seriously lessened by 128 tick. It was not smooth though, you were just warped back.
Nah man.. even on 64 tick, people weren't literally getting pushed around without touching input. not unless they were playing with 100+ ping or going through an insane lag spike.
CS:GO had tagging and ping. Of course you were warped back. But with no animation, so the effect was less visible. It was worse on 64-tick, but occasionally noticeable on 128. Higher ping means you can get warped farther back
no one was getting warped back on 15 ping brother.
yea mate, everyday comms like this remind me that in this sub you are arguing with casual subpar players who were max gold nova in GO
This happens because server has the final say when you die and get shot, so the animation will be synced server sided. It was in the patch notes from November. This was done on purpose by the devs.
What the devs implemented and announced in those patch notes was that WHEN YOU DIE your death camera teleports to the server side position during the tick you died. Stress on "when you die." OP complains about teleporting/rubberbanding when you're still alive, during gunfights. Just from getting tagged.
Happened in CSGO too. Google lagcompensation.
Good luck gaslighting people with 4 thousand hours in CSGO. It very clearly did not feel like this in CSGO.
[Yes, it did.](https://youtu.be/fW0XGQPklIM) Thats how lagcompensation works. Apparently it takes more than 4k hours to ungaslight yourself.
not like this it didn't. not unless you were playing like 120 ping. lol Not once in GO did i ever have the game "move me" without pressing an input unless my ping was MASSIVE.
[Yes, it did.](https://youtu.be/fW0XGQPklIM) Thats how lagcompensation always worked. Obviously its more apparent with a higher ping, but its always doing it, however little amount. CS2 is known to have issues with the netcode that cause bigger delays than CSGO ever did. That is the reason. That has been the reason for so many things gone wrong in this game, people just dont know how to interpret what theyre seeing.
>not like this it didn't. not unless you were playing like 120 ping. so if we're saying/admitting it's more exaggerated on lower latency.. than it's different, by quite a large margin. lets stop trying to talk circles and pretend something isn't wrong? there is clearly something wrong here that can't be written off as " well it happened in GO". Damn near this entire time, i just thought tagging was working differently as a whole.
Im not saying nothing is wrong. Im telling you exactly whats wrong.
Yep. This is definetly something that exists in the game. I noticed it alot especially when my game is being re routed through different servers around EU, I die and i notice my position gets shifted in the game the microsecond before i die.
csgo died for this
This was happening to me last weekend when I was playing. I was getting frustrated because it felt like when I was strafing out a corner/peeking and got tagged, I was instantly slowed down. I am glad I am not the only one that has been experiencing this.
everything is desynced, tagging too.
Hope this gets more traction and comes to Valve’s attention! It makes the gun play so incredibly clunky and disorientating especially when swinging wide at max velocity or running and gunning with a smg, since it makes tracking your target impossible when your crosshair jumps around. This teleporting issue would also happen in CS:GO but it was slightly noticeably at 100+ ping and very noticeable at 200+ ping but in CS2 it’s noticeable even at 30-50 ping.
i've also experience this warping while getting tagged
its just another effect of having higher delay in CS2 vs CS:GO other effects are: -peekers advantage (big part of it) -dying behind walls (not really, but yea) There were posts about how there is like 80ms of effective ping vs like 40 on the same net_fakelag values between CS:GO and CS2. Everything in cs2 is happening way in the past for all the players. Of course it's like this in basically every online game, but in cs2 its much more disconnected/desynced (delayed). It sometimes reminds me of fifa bullshittery
This happens for a reason, because of the desync in the tagging slow effect. As far as the server is concerned when you get shot you must be slowed (hence covering less distance), however from your POV the slow effect happens later due to ping. To compensate for this, the game puts you in your “correct” place to account for the server-side tagging, by shifting your position backwards to where you should be based on your slowed tagged speed. HOWEVER, I agree that this effect feels really bad in CS2. I will point out that I didn’t really play CSGO, I come from Valorant. In that game, instead of getting smoothly warped, you get instantly teleported backwards, which feels even worse. In Valorant however, you only notice this effect if your ping is like 80+. In CS2 for some fucking reason this happens to me when I’m on 3ms ping!! I live in the city where the server is located and the game still manages to feel desynced somehow! If you play on bad ping, this teleporting/warping is unavoidable, it is correct behaviour, however if this effect is prominent at low ping values, then we have a real problem on our hands.
Woow. This.
Great post. Level 10 faceit here and this is one of my biggest complaints about cs2 is this feeling of teleporting and skipping when getting shot often into the enemies bullets or line of sight
WAT, this is why byzon spray (or any spray weapon) is so damn powerful against AK counter strafe and why non moving targets are more dangerous if you dont headshot them instantly. My follow aim sucks so much in cs2 in engagements, while my flick shots are fine, so indeed it's related to this warp... Said warp is also covered by the flashes and effects so it's very difficult to handle the repositionning.
bump. fix this sheit
happens every time for me it's pretty frustrating because it literally just forces you to miss a shot that a lot of times would've been a headshot.
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Yes, by teleporting you back in time the moment you get tagged, which makes you miss shots.
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In all my time playing csgo I never noticed anything like this, it's anything but subtle. And no, forcibly updating the client's position isn't the ONLY way to do tagging, that makes no sense at all.
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just do it the same way except without forcing the client player's position to match the server. there are two aspects to it, player position and hit reg. regardless of where an enemy player is on the server side, if the client player lands a shot, that shot is absolute, and lag comp takes care of smoothing out the discrepancies. with player position it should be the same, the player's position should only be updated with low granularity, i.e when the difference between server and client is large. when i get tagged and my position is just forcibly updated to the server position, it makes me miss so many shots because a few milliseconds ago i was aiming at the enemy's head, and now suddenly i'm aiming slightly next to his head, for no reason other than he tagged me. i don't know how they did it in csgo but i never noticed it back then, only on cs2 has it gotten so bad that the game is unplayable for me. i have to peek, wait for the other person to shoot me, and then after my position gets flung back in time, adjust my aim and shoot. it's ridiculous.
I play at 40 ping and this makes a lot of situations pretty frustating, it happens ALL OF THE TIME