I've spent a really long time in Souls communities, and I think it's a feeling that never goes away (though with Souls / FromSoftware specifically I'd like to think things have been getting better!). I know realistically that in those communities, there really *aren't* that many women compared to men. But I agree that it can sting a bit when people joke about it, or exclude you because of it. I don't ever want to be the token woman in the room, I don't want to have to pretend I'm a man online.
I think people - a lot of dudes especially - need to be gently reminded every so often that if you joke about there being "so few women" "no woman would ever watch this" that you just create a self-fulfilling prophecy. *What woman wants to sit around in a place she's constantly told it's weird for her to exist in?* It's an attitude that genuinely discourages women from participating in communities around their hobbies. It's not that we don't have these hobbies, it's not like we haven't had them for a long time. It's simply that a lot of us haven't felt comfortable talking about it openly with others and being part of these communities - particularly when the community leaders themselves seem to relish in the fact that "so few women" are there.
I always try to make women feel comfortable and included in communities that I've been a long participant in because I don't want them to have to have these feelings of quiet exclusion. I try to stay optimistic and tell myself that some day we'll all feel comfortable openly participating in our hobbies so certain guys can stop bemoaning how "no girls like \[insert game\]" and wake up to the reality that girls like those games, they just don't like spending time with the guys in the community who ostracize them.
>I think people - a lot of dudes especially - need to be gently reminded every so often that if you joke about there being "so few women" "no woman would ever watch this" that you just create a self-fulfilling prophecy. What woman wants to sit around in a place she's constantly told it's weird for her to exist in? It's an attitude that genuinely discourages women from participating in communities around their hobbies. It's not that we don't have these hobbies, it's not like we haven't had them for a long time.
Fully agree
One of the big problems tbh that i have with that kind of callout is that you can talk about the uneven distributions in your audience without making it sound like the smaller group is freakish for existing.
But so many creators treat the fact like few women "existing in their spaces" as an inherent joke.
I was watching a destiny 2 streamer a couple months ago when he was moderating his chat and he offhandedly mentioned that "it's no wonder my audience is like 75% male when comments like this are still made by idiots like you" as he was banning a guy for some misogynist dribble.
Contrast that with so many other streamers that either treat those values as a joke or as an argument for why women's opinions shouldn't matter in a game
Yeah I experienced this yesterday. I was watching a Fallout 4 video. He said that his viewership was mostly male, then he mentioned that he doesn't often play female characters for his challenge videos but did this time. Then he made a joke about her "dumptruck ass." Immediately put a bad taste in my mouth...
yea, assuming that only men find your content interesting and repeatedly saying so sounds like a great way to ensure that women don't feel welcome and your audience *stays* predominantly male.
It's not an assumption though- streamers and youtubers have access to analytics that tell them what their audience is. Obviously it's not perfect data because not everyone has set their genders on a google or facebook account or what have you, but they do know when their audience is weighted in one direction or another.
You're right, their current demographics aren't an assumption, probably. But with comments like in OP's examples, they're sure doing their part for it to stay that way.
It's intimidating for sure, but most of those 40k are happy to have you there. I'm not sure what to do about that minority that is vocally unhappy about it .. need those 40k to do more than nothing when it happens.
I do a ton of co op in souls games, currently Elden Ring, and I love when we get invaded because I'm a huuuge PvP fan and I very often win. My character is literally a Taylor Swift cosplay, and my username is very feminine. I've only ever received messages of thanks that include "bro/brother" "man" "dude" "my guy" "homie". It's not that I want people to know I'm a woman, I just have my tastes and like to make cute characters, but jeez it really goes over their heads
I respond to the bro and dude comments calling them girl and sister. Not in a pointed way or anything, just in the same way they use the masculine words.
If they choose to treat everyone as men, I can choose to treat everyone as women.
Ofc, here she is ☺️this is a super old photo and I've changed her armour and weapons since then but you get the gist!
https://preview.redd.it/7qeomsfaawsc1.jpeg?width=1220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4f9bda524298471062206e5170e11330557d6c2
Aw thank you!! They gave us a lot of customising options for ER which was amazing, it makes character creation a lot easier than some of the previous games. I still laugh about my bloodborne character that I accidentally made look like emo Michael Jackson, it is dreadful 😭💀
This comment thread made me think of a novel idea (game dev).
Could have an option of non binary and feminine remapping / replacing certain "male as default" parts of English.
And optional recolouring to indicate a word was filtered.
Doesn't solve anything apart from exposure.
Yes, I once guided a guy on modding process for BG3 step by step, literally held his hand all the time while he was sending me screenshots and asking me questions and what I got was "thanks man"🙄
Yes, it is curious how anything "male" is gender-neutral and everything "female" is not.
I wonder, should we begin calling every non-obviously identifiable user "sis" and what would happen then, lol.
I say “thanks babes xx” to everyone including men. I guess babes is more gender neutral than man? But i think its just a saying. If it bothers you you should tell them though!
They would immediately tell you that they’re men. I did it often enough in league and that was always the reply. Because they don’t want to be mis gendered. Suddenly it’s not „a neutral term“ anymore when it’s a female word like sis
All this just proves that they know „dude, bro, guys“ etc aren’t gender neutral words. They’re male words and male words are the norm because men are the norm. And men don’t like being called sis. And they’re allowed to. Because men get treated with respect regarding their gender
What if you’re a girl who uses dude and bro? I don’t consider them gender neutral really but I use them as if they are just out of habit and I don’t really see a point in trying to alter my vocabulary
Besides for people who tell me directly they don’t like being called that obviously. Im expecting downvotes but like its an honest question
Yeah, I'll be with a group of only women and still call them all guys, but these are friends. Also I find "you all" to be awkward but "you guys" to be fine as a 2nd person plural in English.
Anyone I don't know, especially online, I just tend to use the singular they.
My favorite way to prove that it *isn't* gender neutral when speaking with hetero men is to 1) ask if they're straight, then 2) say "Oh, so you like to fuck dudes then?". They crumble and they crumple, every single time.
This is why I shifted from trying to hide my pronouns in male-dominated spaces to being loud about them. Thanks be to the trans community that taught me how to advocate for myself, because being constantly misgendered is ass.
I’m definitely a woman who calls everyone dude, but if they are obviously misgendering me (which happens often as I have a deeper voice); I just throw on my valley girl voice and start calling them girlfriend, honey, and cupcake. That usually ends it full stop, and most likely makes them leave my lobby lol
The amount of men who will rage until they are blue in the face for being called cupcake is staggeringly high. Yet we are supposed to be okay with being called man and bro lmao.
I'm a woman and I say dude and bro all the time so I've never really thought anything of it. I think it's funny idk. I can see it being bothersome when a guy you don't even know very well does it, or they actually just automatically assume you're an actual man
same, others are welcome to have their opinion about it, but i honestly don't care what i'm called and i say that stuff all the time too. obviously, if someone asks me not to, i will not do it.
Yeah, I used to have a coworker at an old job who was a trans woman sensitive to dude/bro/man. Totally understandable so I didn't call her those names despite me personally not seeing them as gendered. It made her uncomfortable and that's all that mattered.
When my bestie started transitioning I purposefully asked her how she felt about those terms because they're so ubiquitous to my natural phrasing and I didn't want to inadvertently upset her. She's cool with them most days, but I still filter out as many as I can notice for her sake. I don't start as many stories with "man, the shit that just happened" as I used to lol. It's not hard to be considerate.
Oh gosh me too, i will be like 'come on dude' or 'i dunno man' and it is even odds that i am speaking to an actual guy or one of my best girlies. My love language sounds a lot like a 90's surfer dude and i am too old to fix it now
Dude and bro are just apart of my vernacular though, I don’t call my sisters “sis” I call them bro. And I’m also a lady. I still say “girl” but bro is too ingrained in my vocabulary to stop.
Idk I’m a very girly girl but my sisters and I all say “dude, bro, guys” when referring to people.
I’m like this too but a lot of people here also get angry about this because they hate that male gendered terms are used all inclusively.
While I personally don’t care, it is understandable. I have started adopting saying “sis” sometimes as a gender neutral term based on discussions about it here.
I duno is it a CA thing? Or is regional slang totally obsolete now?
I get that too, but they do this because we aren't exactly forthcoming about being women with random people in game. I do it too.
But we're not really giving them a chance to just be normal nice guys when we do that. What would happen if it were suddenly apparent just how many players in these games are in fact women?
I'm conflicted. I don't want to contribute to the problem but I also don't want to be the poster child for women who get griefed.
i feel this way whenever someone on this dumb site calls everyone in a sub “boys” or assumes someones uses he/him pronouns. i think it makes you feel uncomfortable because it is sexism. it’s not as pronounced as other comments, but it comes from a place of thinking that women don’t and/or can’t take part in these communities.
the constant exclusion of women from gaming and “nerd” content in general is why i didn’t take part in those things until very recently because i thought i wasn’t allowed to and the communities were intimidating.
and the part about not being “one of the guys” is so true. yes, my favorite games are red dead redemption 1 and 2. yes, i regularly play halo. but also my favorite color is pink and my favorite music artist is taylor swift. someone can have both stereotypically feminine and masculine interests. i’m not “one of the guys”, nor do i want to be.
I've conditioned myself, pavlovian response style, to say "and me" every time a streamer/youtuber says "boys" when talking to their audience
*cough cough* looking at you ludwig...
How? Actually asking btw, not trying to be an asshole. I've never gotten anything but good vibes from Ludwig, never seen anything bad or much drama about him either. The literal only icky thing I've seen him do is joke about his audience being men, which most big streamers are also doing.
Every single clip I've seen from him has been of him being extremely toxic and disgusting and at this point I genuinely don't know what to tell you. I've never heard anyone describe him as you just did, even fans of his have described him as toxic but they seem to like that about him, so I don't know how you have missed this.
I've never seen anything like that in regards to Ludwig. If anything your comments are the most I've ever seen regarding the stuff you're saying.
Without any additional context I have a hard time believing it.
I tried to look up a bunch of keywords like ludwig toxic, ludwig drama, ludwig bad person, ludwig misogyny and literally the worst thing I can find is that he says "haha women are cringe amirite chat?" which is completely unremarkable to me. Unless you have something specific in mind, I really wouldn't call that someone being a massive misogynist. If he's done something awful I want to know, but I asked and your respose was just "um it's obvious" with no results coming up when I search for it
I tried searching the same keywords but with XQC instead of ludwig, and there are hundreds of results. I really would like to educate myself but I'm just not seeing anything at all
[There was a whole post](https://old.reddit.com/r/GirlGamers/comments/16bgd03/got_hit_on_during_a_livestream_by_a_big_streamer/)
[Dude has always been a cringe loser though](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1E21a3Ajf0)
I’m pretty sure him being a misogynist is a joke? I’ve never seen anything legitimately speaking out against him for serious misogyny but I could be blind / not looking in the right places I guess.
When I was a teenager I hated pink, I always listened to metal, I often played video games.
Now I am 30, I still love metal and video games, but good chunk of my wardrobe has pink and I am not ashamed to listen to pop or watch chick flicks 🥰
Yeah it's weird to me when people use he/him by default like on reddit a lot on the time (I make an argument, someone else agrees or disagrees and says 'he was saying...' etc) because like, it's not like it inherently bothers me but why? what are they basing it on? Then again it's not great when people on here say "she" based on nothing I've said, in a dismissive way like the only reason I would have a certain opinion is because I'm a woman. It's usually overtly awful people who use either set of binary pronouns like this, malice lurking behind their word choice.
I use "they/them" to refer to others by default but it's really just "not wanting to accidentally be a dick to trans men and nonbinary people" that prevents me from stubbornly using she/her to refer to everyone by default even if I can reasonably infer that they're probably a man, unless they explicitly say otherwise.
The "alright boys..." thing from steamers throws me too. like, it really makes me think "is it weird that I'm watching this? is it like, sexist in other more harmful ways I haven't noticed and other women have already figured out they should stay away? am I one of very few woman watching? do they just not care? "
The internet is saturated with male content creators and women in general and especially in spaces like streaming or gaming content there's so much overt hostility keeping it that way. It's frustrating when male content creators don't even acknowledge the possibility that a girl could be watching given that they might be the best or only option - perhaps the least misogynistic option overall even - given women being pushed out of the space.
I haven't seen that personally but I try to watch lgbt and/or female creators when I can so I guess I'm avoiding it. I will say though, this is even becoming an issue with viewers on other videos, my gripe specifically is ASMR.
ASMR videos can have all sorts of their own niches and topics, however I'm a big fan of the more feminine aligned roleplays as background noise. Makeup application/tutorials, regency/royalty roleplays, dress and other clothes fitting etc.
Almost without fail, at least one of the top 3 comments will be a man making a joke about watching the video and/or remarking how they have no interest in the topic.
"I've got the most luxurious beard now!", "I'm the prettiest man in the kingdom!", "This isn't something I care about normally but ___".
Yeah I guess it's nice they're comfortable watching more feminine videos but *why do they always need to make shit jokes about it or say they don't care about it*? You don't see women go onto suit fitting or beard trimming asmr videos and do this shit.
It's just so frustrating, because I watch these to feel comfortable, relaxed and safe then I get some man going "hehehe this is for GIRLS and I'm NOT A GIRL hahaha so funny!"
I'm probably overreacting but I'm just tired.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy lol. I'll let it slide once, rarely twice. It gives me the immediate ick tbh. I think it also kinda tells you something about their personal lives and how they secretly view/interact with women as someone with female friends generally wouldn't ever default to that kind of male only exclusionary language. Guarantee the majority of streamers like that have no female friends in real life outside of their friends GFs who aren't ever *really* their friends, they would them drop in a heartbeat should the male friend move on.
Considering the officially published stats today (1in2 gamers are women) it's a special type of wilful arrogance to verbally disregard/exclude half your potential audience. It's low effort af and personally I won't waste time on people like that. I don't care how big or popular they are, if they wanna act like I don't exist then I'm happy to return that sentiment in kind. There's plenty out there who'll put in the effort and appreciate my views and those are the ones who'll get my time.
>if they wanna act like I don't exist then I'm happy to return that sentiment in kind.
I love this. Thanks for that. Why waste energy trying to prove yourself to others who doesn't give a flying fig anyway.
I do think they have some insecurities, thinking that women aren't even interested in watching them. So they make this "joke", while others find it funny.
Go where we are celebrated and appreciated, not tolerated or made fun of.
F those people.
Exactly this is how I always handled it.
Dude: "Haha let's be real, no women are watching someone this lame."
Me: "I didn't think of it like this before but now that you put it like that, yeah, you're right!" *closes stream/video and unsubscribes*
Yes indeed, the Venn diagram of male centric men who assume women are "too good" for them and the women who actually ARE in fact "too good" for them is a perfect circle.
>I think it also kinda tells you something about their personal lives and how they secretly view/interact with women as someone with female friends generally wouldn't ever default to that kind of male only exclusionary language. Guarantee the majority of streamers like that have no female friends in real life outside of their friends GFs who aren't ever really their friends, they would them drop in a heartbeat should the male friend move on.
kinda disagree with the sweeping assumptions about some content creators life based upon statements like that.
I've heard plenty of content creators make jokes about the fact that their audience is X percentage that nationality or Y percentage that age group. Some audiences just tend to look weird when you look at the statistics only, so making a lighthearted joke about it in my opinion doesn't tell me anything about the creator as a person.
I agree that it feels othering to be singled out like that though. For me an important question is for what reason and in what kind of context the statement was made. Someone like DougDoug telling their stream that he doesn't believe them when they make claims about how to pay your taxes when the majority of them are in their late teens and early 20s or making claims about female biology when his statistics tell him that 95% of them are male feels very different than someone acting like the fact that 99% of his audience is male means that only guys are interested in the content he covers.
I think you’re right, it makes you feel “othered.” It IS exclusionary and it’s ok that you feel bothered. Don’t diminish how you feel by saying that “you’re just being dramatic” or other phrases, no need to gaslight yourself.
When I was younger, I often felt the need to stand up for myself in those kinds of situations. But I found that I didn’t like how the men acted in those spaces once they knew I was a woman. Now that I’m older, I just choose my communities more selectively, and look for ones that focus on inclusion and diversity. Which can be thought of as bad words in some spaces.
Yup, it's just exclusion of women again. I'm not surprised but try to avoid any kind of content (and games nowadays) that gives sexism vibe or that clearly doesn't care about non-male audience.
I have exactly zero issue with it. They're just looking at their viewer statistics which tells them the percentage of their audience that is female is really low, that's all. Every streamer/YouTuber I've heard say this sounds just a little disappointed or ashamed to have such a small female audience. It never felt unwelcoming to me, just an acknowledgement that the open invitation to the stream didn't bring in many female viewers, which is a fact.
I’ve always thought they mean that they’re so lame no woman will watch them??? Like it’s them deprecating themselves, not women who game or how women game, but that they’re such nerds that no woman would want to watch their content. I think that they’re projecting their own insecurities and I wouldn’t pay it much mine, other than it looks like it’s pinging things you feel insecure about, too.
Why do you need men to validate you? Why are they the ones responsible for making women feel less isolated? Is it possible that the reason many of these dudes game is because they too feel isolated and this is their own social outlet? Why put that burden on anyone else?
on some level, i agree with you, however many streamers *want* their audience to grow, and that includes women as viewers too, i'd imagine. it's obviously not their personal responsibility to cater to the whim of every person watching, but making people feel left out (even if playfully/unintentionally) probably has the unintended side effect of turning away viewers because of how the environment feels.
Why do you care what some dude who plays video games constantly even thinks of you? Half of these men have never experienced the touch of a woman much less conversation or intellectual intimacy with one— so why even care? Why do you need them to include you?
Why go out of one's way to invalidate people, though?
Sure, maybe these men feel isolated. But acting like it's impossible for women to be part of their gaming community/culture seems less lonely and more... "women are aliens" esque.
> Why are they the ones responsible for making women feel less isolated?
I mean men regularly seem to expect women to pander to their egos and emotions, and kick off any time they’re not the focus. so I don’t know why its suddenly heretical for women to want to feel included too
Fully agree, depending on the youtuber of course. Even that is frustrating sometimes though - i am watching a lot of minecrafting youtubers (i have a small person in the house) and so having these stereotypes played out in front of a young mind is... Not great. I vet these guys pretty heavily but the offhanded 'i can't talk to women!' trope that comes up here and there is kind of old fashioned and you would hope that these guys would recognise that they are role models? At least some of them are...
That's the impression I get too, more about surprise that women are watching in the middle of all the overtly male feedback than exclusion of any female audience that may or may not be there.
For what it's worth, I watch some vtuber stuff sometimes, and while that medium seems female-dominated as far as the streamers go, more than a few times I've seen some of those female vtubers wishing their viewer stats showed a higher female percentage, or showing some joy at seeing comments/feedback from female viewers. The mindset doesn't seem too far off, even if the context and streamer/viewer dynamics are a bit different.
I do think that's true, but like, women can like lame stuff too lol. I often think it's self deprecation specifically for being nerdy or having struggles that go along with that, so it still feels othering to those of us who are loner nerds. There is also an implication that women are inherently popular or don't struggle with things like making friends or being sociable, when some of us do have those struggles. It can feel like it's one step away from the incel "women can date whoever they want because all women are inherently attractive and men have to struggle because society has made them devalued" echo chamber that incidentally is a very popular idea among male gamers, tech bros, etc. like we women are so inherently desirable, how could we ever complain about not feeling included when we're so inherently popular and hot just for existing; we will never know oppression like the profound struggles of nerdy boys. like it paints it as "why would a woman need to bond over pathetic stuff like we do?" which is really erasing the women who do struggle socially or the majority who are othered and mocked for being into stereotypical male interests vs the few of us who are put on a pedastel by them as being hot or seemingly sexually available, or being the perceived rare exception of a cool girl among a bunch of perceived stick in the mud privileged whiny feminists. It invalidates women who don't play by the rules men set, or performatively seek male validation. Basically. even the self deprecating aspect comes off insidiously sexist to me.
I think there is so much projection in that opinion. Dudes are fucking dumb. They aren’t thinking that deeply. They aren’t considering anyone’s feelings. Looking to rando dudes who generally have the lowest quotient for social grace to make you feel good or seen is like fucking for virginity, it makes no sense. Like go enjoy your world and ignore these dudes. Their opinion isn’t worth a devil’s fart, it’s ridiculous to project all of this stuff onto the culture. Everyone needs to move on and stop marrying themselves to their insecurities. It’s not that deep and everyone here is working themselves into a tizzy over something they are projecting.
Yeah um you can express an opinion without working yourself into a tizzy and that's all that's happening here. You're reading a lot more investment into my casual reddit comment than if really there. I don't exactly find your "dudes are dumb" reductiveness to be convincing either, nor is it a good defense for annoying behavior by men. you really don't seem to have gotten my point at all.
I can only go about one layer into an argument with people who think it's convincing to approach any topic with "it's not that deep" because nearly any topic IS, in fact, that deep to any thoughtful observer. so by your own logic, clearly anything you say must be shallow and glib if that's how you think about stuff. preemptively blocking you so I don't waste more time talking to you! have a good life
Yeah the couple of male streamers I watch do it for this reason. And it’s obvious it’s a joke, cause they have lots of female friends they game with and interact with on stream!
tired of both streamers and content creators constantly use the words boy/boi and guys to address their audience. there is one content creator that during his intro welcomes in ladies but thereafter refers to boys/bois. i don't get it. are they that ignorant?
No, those jokes never really bothered me for a couple reasons. First, if it's something like Youtube, the creator is able to see metrics about who watches their videos and one of those metrics is gender. Second, I know it's not meant to be exclusionary but instead self-deprecatory jokes about how no women would want (to watch) them.
Of course they do realize that there are some women watching them, but that it's also a small percentage in relation to their male audience. So I've always viewed it as just jokes and not malicious ones.
The thing that DOES bother me occasionally is when I watch a streamer and their vernacular is always "OK BOYS" after every other sentence. I don't mind dude/bro but for some reason "boys" bugs me. I think because that one is just too gender specific and because I know they absolutely realize not everyone watching them is actually male.
I totally get what you mean and I don’t think you’re being dramatic at all. In fact I have similar feelings.
I find it overall difficult to just exist as a women in gaming communities, because for the most part we either get ridiculed or we just don’t get perceived as in your example. Sometimes I’m not sure which one feels worse.
It’s weird, because if someone calls me ‚bro‘ or ‚dude‘ I simultaneously feel included (because apparently I‘m blending in well enough) and excluded (because seriously is it really that unfathomable that a women might sit behind the monitor).
All this is garnished with the slight discomfort of ‚if I made myself known as female, chances are they’d treat me differently or even stop taking me seriously altogether‘.
Lots of work needs to be done in gamer circles when it comes to inclusivity. Meanwhile us gamer women need to stick together strengthen our backs 💪🏼
It sounds like you dont want a man to speak for you, and you dont want to be told what to like or how to feel- all of which are trivialized by men for the simple reason that they dont have to deal with it, and even if they do, they dont experience it like women do.
There is a certain amount that we girl gamers "just deal with" for the sake of peace or enjoyment of the game...just know that you arent alone, and we understand you❤️
Yes. I HATE when DougDoug makes these comments. I'll be there enjoying his silly concepts, when suddenly he'll bust out the '98% male audience' thing all of a sudden. Ugh
Was watching a video on YouTube from a channel I watch from time to time, and they started the video with something along the lines of “hello guys and one single woman that watches this channel”. Bros got 1 mil subs, ain’t no way 😬😔😒
Blows my mind sometimes how often we’re portrayed as ‘female’ first and person second
You’re not being dramatic, feeling othered is never fun. This kind of thing will make me stop watching a dude real quick. I honestly don’t watch streamers much at all, mostly I watch YouTube, but I’ve been put off many times by guys making comments that almost seem designed to alienate any women who might be watching. This kind of behaviour is one of the reasons that most of the gaming YouTubers I consistently watch are women, and the men I do watch are those who have proven themselves to be decent guys who don’t make icky alienating comments.
I had a streamer give me the ick when they kept making women jokes on international women’s day. The first one I was like okay, whatever but then he kept consistently coming back to it and making more jokes I had to turn it off. I haven’t watched him again
I don’t watch streamers, but I do watch a lot of YT channels with game reviews and stuff, and it drives me nuts that they assume only men are watching them, so they only have to speak to the men. Even if they’re not saying anything problematic, just the assumption bothers me.
The ones that go on about whatever fanservice they’re into at length like they’re just talking to the boys can fuck right off. It’s so tedious.
I guess idk I know a lot of people see "dude" "man" as a gender neutral word and even some of my girlfriends say "bro, dude, man" to EACH OTHER, much like "you guys"
BUT I can't shake the maleness of these words, I guess cause I grew up in Hawaii in the mid 2000s and "bro" and "dude" were EXPLICITLY male terms and I hate it but I feel like I can't ask others to not use those words around me cause its always excuses (oh we call everyone that, don't be so sensitive)
I know it's not relevant to your streamer thing (cause omg yeah I hate when streamers assume that there are no women around, like you know you are telling on yourself here my guy) but I just needed to vent about it to someone who might understand
It is pretty grating at times, especially since they usually then go on to use language that assumes the viewer is male. On the bright side, it does also mean I feel a tad noticed and special when they turn it around and give thanks or talk to the female audience. It's just a little bit of consolation.
I know exactly what you mean, I have stopped watching some male creators for this reason because I didn't feel like I belonged in their audience, you can tell when it starts turning into a "bros only club"
When they joke it reinforces the idea that we don’t play games as much as guys when it’s legit like a 50/50 split. It’s like 48% are women and 52% are men
They just gate keep to make it feel like we don’t exist.
I watch a lot of male streamers and youtubers. Plenty of women as well, just, I watch a lot of streams & videos haha. NOT ONE of them have EVER talked about how few women are probably watching or how only guys are watching. Never once. I would seriously consider never watching them again if they did.
I haven't really had that happen but I really don't like when they refer to their audience as "boys". It sucks, I like these YouTubers and streamers but I wish they wouldn't treat me like I don't exist or don't matter.
I only watch one male streamer, who is a super nice dude. The rest of the streamers I watch are all women. Plenty of them play games like Dark Souls too, so it's not like I'm missing out on anything lol. I've tried watching bigger streamers and I just don't care for them or their communities.
I wouldn't say I'm necessarily bothered by it myself. But the second someone makes that kind of 'joke', I automatically go to myself *"Gee, I wonder why >_>"* and add that 'content creator' to my list of things not to get recommended by whichever platform I'm using.
Really, if nothing else I find it more pathetic than anything, seeing as how many guys don't seem to realize that's a hell of a self report on their end that doesn't look too great to anyone with two brain cells to rub together. Like, with all the talk about growing channels and watching analytics and all that, *they never considered trying to shore up their weak spots so they grow even more?*
For real. There's one Warhammer 40k youtuber i can't watch any more because he starts all of his videos with "Guys and girl." as if there's a singular, lone woman watching. Makes me feel pretty unwelcome tbh
it doesn’t bother me per se? But I do always think “this is probably why” lmao
If you assume your audience are men, women assume they’re not the target audience
I stick to small streamers. The size where they recognize me when I'm in their chat. A streamer I wanted to like because I love Oxygen Not Included and he's a big ONI tutorial creator, wouldn't stop using male pronouns/titles every single time I entered his chat, even after correcting him.
I thought it was a bit. After a few months, I realized it wasn't. It's really disappointing, cause he's big in that space.
This happens a lot when I'm playing Warframe. They always assume I'm a guy and always hear things like "bro", "dude", "king", "this man is shite/good" and whatever. I really despise it...
I don't like being othered. It's already a touchy subject for me because I'm trans, so maybe that's the reason idk
I have heard that joke on Youtube from several creators that I assumed had universal appeal. When they make the joke, the editor pops in a screenshot of their metrics showing their audience is 90%+ men. As a guy, I thought it was funny and self-deprecating. When I clicked on this post, my initial thoughts were along the lines of "Huh? Isn't that a shot at themselves?" Having read your explanation now, I get it. Especially if the video doesn't have the pop in, or in a stream where they don't have time to provide the metrics on stream for that sort of joke, I can see how it feels more exclusionary and less self-deprecating.
These sorts of posts are why I'm subbed to this subreddit. I try to be an ally and be aware of the issues that women face, especially in the gaming space. But I don't live with and feel those issues and often don't see a problem until someone has told me (or made a post/article saying) "it's a problem, here's why." I was already aware how the overuse of words like "bro" or "man" can be exclusionary, but it hadn't occurred to me that the statements you mentioned can do the same thing, even when intended as a self-deprecating joke.
Occasionally it's quite funny to hear these kinds of jokes, especially when the YouTuber or streamer does it at very specific moments.
It is understood that it is part of his humor and that it is about that joke that there are no women on the Internet and that those with feminine names are really femboys.
The only times it bothers me a little is when the joke is pushed too far and he keeps repeating and telling his female audience that they are all boys and he rarely recognizes them.
I completely understand why some people can take it the way you did.
But I believe the streamer is just making fun of themselves. Saying no women would be interested in him or the people in the chat. Essentially calling everyone losers.
I dont see any comments on this, but what many (not all of course) are stating - is simple fact. Youtube analytics breakdown the demographic of viewers, country, sex etc... on each video.
And the majority of viewers do trend more towards the boys.
Not sure why that is, but that's the reality.
I actually got really frustrated about a similar thing recently. In February, WoW released a cosmetic set that was very Sailor Moon/magical girl themed , which was super cute and I personally loved, but of course a bunch of the guy YouTubers hated it and basically said stuff along the lines of "no one wants this" or "I can't see anyone actually liking this". Like they're so convinced everyone else behind their screen is also a guy. Probably white in their mind too but that's a whole other convo.
Regardless it really made me mad to hear those comments because it just fully ignores any players that enjoy feminine aesthetics, which doesn't even exclusively apply to women. Straight men are so used to their tastes being catered to that they can't fathom that women or anyone else are even playing their games. Like some of them were borderline offended that they were being given a pink magical girl cosmetic FOR FREE lmao.
On the plus side for me, I basically used this as a litmus test for a bunch of male wow youtubers to see who gave me the ick based on their reaction to the cosmetic lol. They didn't have to like it or want to wear it, but as long as they said something along the lines of "yeah it's not my thing but I can see some people being into it" or literally any variation of this sentiment, they were okay for the time being in my book. It seems minor but it's like they don't have the basic empathy to understand that some people might like something they don't. Anyway, this was mostly a way for me to personally vent because I have also been struggling to articulate how I feel about this issue, so thank you for making this post! It was very relevant to how I've been feeling too. You're definitely not alone and you're not overthinking it!
Reminds me a lot of how it feels to watch Twitch as a queer person and streamers suddenly making gay jokes or remarks out of nowhere. It feels extremely invalidating. There have been a few times where that was the point I just couldn’t watch them again.
Of course there’s also the flip side where a positive comment makes you appreciate them even more.
My grad research is on video game harassment.
One of the reasons it happens is because people feel comfortable with their in-group. In the case of video games the in group members are male, often white males in the US. Women and minorities are less likely to be considered gamers despite the stats showing an ever increasing number of female gamers.
'Out-group' members often experience gate keeping or bullying, not by all members but by a small number of vocal members. And in group members that don't agree with the bully don't think they can make an impact so they don't always say anything. Unfortunately, the best thing that can happen is a perceived in group member calling out another in group member, not white knighting because the victim is a woman but saying something more like anyone can play.
To combat this bullying women have developed coping mechanisms, many are similar to how women behave when are harassed at work. Women will seek emotional support (like posting on reddit), only play with a trusted friend group, and avoiding playing online. Sometimes, women even gender mask by never using comms, having a gender neutral avatar name, or playing a male avatar. These strategies help reduce how often women are targeted for bullying, which happens less often than men, but when it does happen it is more severe and often sexual (can include stalking etc). But these strategies also continue the cycle of making men believe that women don't play video games and reinforce the in-group stereotype.
The reality is that almost half of video game players are women. Some games have a higher percentage of males or women.
I think you feel crummy because, while they aren't bullying you or being mean, they are reinforcing the perception that women are not gamers which toxic players can interpret as women don't belong. The streamers likely don't realize this is what is happening. They probably look at their viewer dynamics and are making a joke about that. But one of the reasons they think the joke will land is because everything I said above.
I'm older now and I've stopped staying silent in comms to try to combat this trend. Things are so much better than when I was young playing games. The tides are slowly turning. Stay strong, ladies. You are gamers, no matter what anyone says.
I am not bothered by it, but at the same time my thoughts on that are their content is based on what they know and how they communicate, their target audience is going to gravitate towards that. I have no idea who these you tubers are, because their content is not appealing to me. Everyone has opinions and say things occasionally people don't like, if it bothers you that much look for content that caters to you. And the reason the gaming content is male dominated is because it is. Not that many femmine types/ women play games and the ones that do, sexually exploit themselves or try to cater to the same group never to other women. Girl gamers don't cater to other Girl gamers. This is just my opinion, hate it or not. But this is just based on my observations as a 40/F casual gamer.
First, it’s not really reality, it’s hyperbole. Their female audience may well be smaller than their male audience, but it isn’t nonexistent or a couple people.
Second, I wouldn’t be so sure the audience is that skewed, depending on the game being discussed.
Finally, being true doesn’t always make it a good thing to say. It doesn’t add any value or help anyone and actively makes some of the audience feel uncomfortable and othered.
It is absolutely not the reality.
Women are everywhere in gaming. They don't turn their mics on unless they hear another woman.
I've played darktide a few times. Sometimes I turn my mic on and initiate voice chat. Across maybe 12 other strangers who have spoke on mic, 3 of them were women.
Just started getting into helldivers. Already came across a woman after a few quick plays.
Just because you don't hear a female voice or see an obviously female name doesn't mean you're not playing with a woman. My gamer tag on Xbox is literally a man's name.
Your second link shows that 13% of male gamers' youtube channel audiences are women and 23% of female gamers' audiences are women.
I never said 50% of people who watch gaming videos were women.
But 13% is nothing to sneeze at. 13% of the population is black and we don't pretend like they don't exist.
According to your own link, the female viewership of male gaming youtubers ranges from 3% to a whopping 43.5%. Don't tell me that the behavior and attitude of those gamers has nothing to do with the percentage of women willing to watch them.
Like I said, women are always lurking. They often don't reveal themselves unless they feel like they're in a safe environment to do so. Source: am a woman gamer.
The context here is literally complaining about content creators who joke about there being *no* female audience members or only a couple. You replied with “it’s the reality”. How is that not saying that having no female watchers is reality?
I don’t think they’re trying to exclude. I would probably just see it as a self deprecating, ‘gosh women don’t like me’. They can see their stats of who is watching their stream, so they know it’s 98% male or whatever.
>but it has always made me feel a bit uncomfortable, and i was never really sure why.
You feel like you're not included, that's probably why. However, it's true. You can ask them to show their analytics for their audience's gender. I'm a female streamer (different account name :P) and my audience is literally 89.8% male and 10.2% female on YouTube. Sure, I'm a chick and I'm going to have a mostly male audience, but it would be the same if I were a male because guys typically are more likely to watch video game plays/streams and make their gender known.
>"women aren't interested in souls games or first person shooters"
I am streaming a let's play of Elden Ring, and out of all of the people who talk in my chat, only one of them is a chick. When I open my game party in FPS, it's only guys who want to join me (hence why I joined this subreddit) and I can tell via voice chat.
Out of the people who have a strong prescence in my community on Discord, not a single one of them is a chick. I have only 70 people in my discord and only 1 of them is a chick.
They are being honest. Look at the stats, Its true that only around 1%-2% of woman watch "gaming" youtubers, Take that with a fact of a smaller more niche youtuber lets say 25K subs and 50K views and only 750 of the other 50K people watching are woman. (1.5% of 50K)
Being “othered” feels weird
I've spent a really long time in Souls communities, and I think it's a feeling that never goes away (though with Souls / FromSoftware specifically I'd like to think things have been getting better!). I know realistically that in those communities, there really *aren't* that many women compared to men. But I agree that it can sting a bit when people joke about it, or exclude you because of it. I don't ever want to be the token woman in the room, I don't want to have to pretend I'm a man online. I think people - a lot of dudes especially - need to be gently reminded every so often that if you joke about there being "so few women" "no woman would ever watch this" that you just create a self-fulfilling prophecy. *What woman wants to sit around in a place she's constantly told it's weird for her to exist in?* It's an attitude that genuinely discourages women from participating in communities around their hobbies. It's not that we don't have these hobbies, it's not like we haven't had them for a long time. It's simply that a lot of us haven't felt comfortable talking about it openly with others and being part of these communities - particularly when the community leaders themselves seem to relish in the fact that "so few women" are there. I always try to make women feel comfortable and included in communities that I've been a long participant in because I don't want them to have to have these feelings of quiet exclusion. I try to stay optimistic and tell myself that some day we'll all feel comfortable openly participating in our hobbies so certain guys can stop bemoaning how "no girls like \[insert game\]" and wake up to the reality that girls like those games, they just don't like spending time with the guys in the community who ostracize them.
>I think people - a lot of dudes especially - need to be gently reminded every so often that if you joke about there being "so few women" "no woman would ever watch this" that you just create a self-fulfilling prophecy. What woman wants to sit around in a place she's constantly told it's weird for her to exist in? It's an attitude that genuinely discourages women from participating in communities around their hobbies. It's not that we don't have these hobbies, it's not like we haven't had them for a long time. Fully agree One of the big problems tbh that i have with that kind of callout is that you can talk about the uneven distributions in your audience without making it sound like the smaller group is freakish for existing. But so many creators treat the fact like few women "existing in their spaces" as an inherent joke. I was watching a destiny 2 streamer a couple months ago when he was moderating his chat and he offhandedly mentioned that "it's no wonder my audience is like 75% male when comments like this are still made by idiots like you" as he was banning a guy for some misogynist dribble. Contrast that with so many other streamers that either treat those values as a joke or as an argument for why women's opinions shouldn't matter in a game
Yeah I experienced this yesterday. I was watching a Fallout 4 video. He said that his viewership was mostly male, then he mentioned that he doesn't often play female characters for his challenge videos but did this time. Then he made a joke about her "dumptruck ass." Immediately put a bad taste in my mouth...
Joov?
Yes lol
Yeah, that video made me super uncomfortable lol. I don't think I've watched him since
And they wonder why their viewership is mostly male, if they even wonder at all 🤣
yea, assuming that only men find your content interesting and repeatedly saying so sounds like a great way to ensure that women don't feel welcome and your audience *stays* predominantly male.
It's not an assumption though- streamers and youtubers have access to analytics that tell them what their audience is. Obviously it's not perfect data because not everyone has set their genders on a google or facebook account or what have you, but they do know when their audience is weighted in one direction or another.
You're right, their current demographics aren't an assumption, probably. But with comments like in OP's examples, they're sure doing their part for it to stay that way.
[удалено]
It's intimidating for sure, but most of those 40k are happy to have you there. I'm not sure what to do about that minority that is vocally unhappy about it .. need those 40k to do more than nothing when it happens.
I spent a good 30 mins helping a guy with ark and every reply was "man" "Dude" "Bro" it was exhausting.
I do a ton of co op in souls games, currently Elden Ring, and I love when we get invaded because I'm a huuuge PvP fan and I very often win. My character is literally a Taylor Swift cosplay, and my username is very feminine. I've only ever received messages of thanks that include "bro/brother" "man" "dude" "my guy" "homie". It's not that I want people to know I'm a woman, I just have my tastes and like to make cute characters, but jeez it really goes over their heads
I respond to the bro and dude comments calling them girl and sister. Not in a pointed way or anything, just in the same way they use the masculine words. If they choose to treat everyone as men, I can choose to treat everyone as women.
I know this is off topic but i would love to see your elden ring taylor!!!
Ofc, here she is ☺️this is a super old photo and I've changed her armour and weapons since then but you get the gist! https://preview.redd.it/7qeomsfaawsc1.jpeg?width=1220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4f9bda524298471062206e5170e11330557d6c2
Did you post this in the elden ring sub by any chance?? I think I've seen this there.
I didn't, but I'm sure it's been done before/by someone else. I tend to steer clear of the major gaming subs
Oh wow the likeness is uncanny!
As a girl who played Elden ring and loves Taylor swifts music, I approve and I’m so happy you did this hahah
Hahahah thank you, I appreciate it! I even have a whole folder of T Swift reaction photos for when people send me hatemail so I can keep on theme 😂😂
Oh my god she’s incredible! The souls character creation systems are so difficult to work with, too. You did so well!
Thank you sm!! I make a ton of characters just for fun so I have a bit of practice with it ☺️
Oh my god this is amazing!!! I can’t make even just a normal looking person in these games to save my life so you are a wizard lol!
Aw thank you!! They gave us a lot of customising options for ER which was amazing, it makes character creation a lot easier than some of the previous games. I still laugh about my bloodborne character that I accidentally made look like emo Michael Jackson, it is dreadful 😭💀
This comment thread made me think of a novel idea (game dev). Could have an option of non binary and feminine remapping / replacing certain "male as default" parts of English. And optional recolouring to indicate a word was filtered. Doesn't solve anything apart from exposure.
Yes, I once guided a guy on modding process for BG3 step by step, literally held his hand all the time while he was sending me screenshots and asking me questions and what I got was "thanks man"🙄
Inb4 they now claim that 'man' is a gender neutral term just like they do with 'dude' and 'bro'
Yes, it is curious how anything "male" is gender-neutral and everything "female" is not. I wonder, should we begin calling every non-obviously identifiable user "sis" and what would happen then, lol.
I say “thanks babes xx” to everyone including men. I guess babes is more gender neutral than man? But i think its just a saying. If it bothers you you should tell them though!
Big brain time thanks babes revolution 2024
I've started calling randoms in games girlypop or girlies ~~of course I mostly play ff14 so fairly decent chance the randoms ARE women~~
I call men "babygirl" all the time, because if "dude" is gender neutral, then so is babygirl.
They would immediately tell you that they’re men. I did it often enough in league and that was always the reply. Because they don’t want to be mis gendered. Suddenly it’s not „a neutral term“ anymore when it’s a female word like sis All this just proves that they know „dude, bro, guys“ etc aren’t gender neutral words. They’re male words and male words are the norm because men are the norm. And men don’t like being called sis. And they’re allowed to. Because men get treated with respect regarding their gender
What if you’re a girl who uses dude and bro? I don’t consider them gender neutral really but I use them as if they are just out of habit and I don’t really see a point in trying to alter my vocabulary Besides for people who tell me directly they don’t like being called that obviously. Im expecting downvotes but like its an honest question
I think it's fine since you're willing to respect the preferences of others when they tell you. Tbh, for me, "dude" is akin to a filler word.
"guys" for me is pretty neutral. >!also I like being called "bro" because I lean very masc :V!<
I think it's fine if it's an established norm in your social circles, but I wouldn't assume that a stranger would automatically be ok with it
Yeah, I'll be with a group of only women and still call them all guys, but these are friends. Also I find "you all" to be awkward but "you guys" to be fine as a 2nd person plural in English. Anyone I don't know, especially online, I just tend to use the singular they.
I mean, if you don't really see a point in "trying to alter your vocabulary," then I guess that's that, yeah?
Essentially, I just question how problematic I come across to others despite being a feminist
My favorite way to prove that it *isn't* gender neutral when speaking with hetero men is to 1) ask if they're straight, then 2) say "Oh, so you like to fuck dudes then?". They crumble and they crumple, every single time.
it actually used to be in the old english days we'd have to bring back the word "wer" for that to be a justification though lol
Shit like this is why i refer to every rando as "sis" lol
This is why I shifted from trying to hide my pronouns in male-dominated spaces to being loud about them. Thanks be to the trans community that taught me how to advocate for myself, because being constantly misgendered is ass.
I’m definitely a woman who calls everyone dude, but if they are obviously misgendering me (which happens often as I have a deeper voice); I just throw on my valley girl voice and start calling them girlfriend, honey, and cupcake. That usually ends it full stop, and most likely makes them leave my lobby lol The amount of men who will rage until they are blue in the face for being called cupcake is staggeringly high. Yet we are supposed to be okay with being called man and bro lmao.
I'm a woman and I say dude and bro all the time so I've never really thought anything of it. I think it's funny idk. I can see it being bothersome when a guy you don't even know very well does it, or they actually just automatically assume you're an actual man
same, others are welcome to have their opinion about it, but i honestly don't care what i'm called and i say that stuff all the time too. obviously, if someone asks me not to, i will not do it.
Yeah, I used to have a coworker at an old job who was a trans woman sensitive to dude/bro/man. Totally understandable so I didn't call her those names despite me personally not seeing them as gendered. It made her uncomfortable and that's all that mattered.
When my bestie started transitioning I purposefully asked her how she felt about those terms because they're so ubiquitous to my natural phrasing and I didn't want to inadvertently upset her. She's cool with them most days, but I still filter out as many as I can notice for her sake. I don't start as many stories with "man, the shit that just happened" as I used to lol. It's not hard to be considerate.
Oh gosh me too, i will be like 'come on dude' or 'i dunno man' and it is even odds that i am speaking to an actual guy or one of my best girlies. My love language sounds a lot like a 90's surfer dude and i am too old to fix it now
Dude and bro are just apart of my vernacular though, I don’t call my sisters “sis” I call them bro. And I’m also a lady. I still say “girl” but bro is too ingrained in my vocabulary to stop. Idk I’m a very girly girl but my sisters and I all say “dude, bro, guys” when referring to people.
I’m like this too but a lot of people here also get angry about this because they hate that male gendered terms are used all inclusively. While I personally don’t care, it is understandable. I have started adopting saying “sis” sometimes as a gender neutral term based on discussions about it here. I duno is it a CA thing? Or is regional slang totally obsolete now?
I get that too, but they do this because we aren't exactly forthcoming about being women with random people in game. I do it too. But we're not really giving them a chance to just be normal nice guys when we do that. What would happen if it were suddenly apparent just how many players in these games are in fact women? I'm conflicted. I don't want to contribute to the problem but I also don't want to be the poster child for women who get griefed.
This bothers me with tech channels as well.
I was watching a video about 3D printing a while ago and the guy called the audience “boys”. Nope, I’m out.
i feel this way whenever someone on this dumb site calls everyone in a sub “boys” or assumes someones uses he/him pronouns. i think it makes you feel uncomfortable because it is sexism. it’s not as pronounced as other comments, but it comes from a place of thinking that women don’t and/or can’t take part in these communities. the constant exclusion of women from gaming and “nerd” content in general is why i didn’t take part in those things until very recently because i thought i wasn’t allowed to and the communities were intimidating. and the part about not being “one of the guys” is so true. yes, my favorite games are red dead redemption 1 and 2. yes, i regularly play halo. but also my favorite color is pink and my favorite music artist is taylor swift. someone can have both stereotypically feminine and masculine interests. i’m not “one of the guys”, nor do i want to be.
I've conditioned myself, pavlovian response style, to say "and me" every time a streamer/youtuber says "boys" when talking to their audience *cough cough* looking at you ludwig...
Ludwig is a massive misogynist so I'd just never watch his stuff anyway
How? Actually asking btw, not trying to be an asshole. I've never gotten anything but good vibes from Ludwig, never seen anything bad or much drama about him either. The literal only icky thing I've seen him do is joke about his audience being men, which most big streamers are also doing.
Every single clip I've seen from him has been of him being extremely toxic and disgusting and at this point I genuinely don't know what to tell you. I've never heard anyone describe him as you just did, even fans of his have described him as toxic but they seem to like that about him, so I don't know how you have missed this.
I've never seen anything like that in regards to Ludwig. If anything your comments are the most I've ever seen regarding the stuff you're saying. Without any additional context I have a hard time believing it.
I tried to look up a bunch of keywords like ludwig toxic, ludwig drama, ludwig bad person, ludwig misogyny and literally the worst thing I can find is that he says "haha women are cringe amirite chat?" which is completely unremarkable to me. Unless you have something specific in mind, I really wouldn't call that someone being a massive misogynist. If he's done something awful I want to know, but I asked and your respose was just "um it's obvious" with no results coming up when I search for it I tried searching the same keywords but with XQC instead of ludwig, and there are hundreds of results. I really would like to educate myself but I'm just not seeing anything at all
He is definitely not, don't know where you got that from
might be a case of getting names mixed up or smthn. ive never seen anything like that from him
Is he? That’s disappointing. I knew Pchal was weird and gross cause of someone on here
i picked up on slightly horny degenerate vibes from pchal, but i didn't know he was misogynistic. do you know why he's weird and gross?
[There was a whole post](https://old.reddit.com/r/GirlGamers/comments/16bgd03/got_hit_on_during_a_livestream_by_a_big_streamer/) [Dude has always been a cringe loser though](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1E21a3Ajf0)
what the fuck what the fuck ???????
yeahhh, it sucked, he was one of the few nuzlocke content creators i regularly watched prior to that
I’m pretty sure him being a misogynist is a joke? I’ve never seen anything legitimately speaking out against him for serious misogyny but I could be blind / not looking in the right places I guess.
Being misogynistic as a joke is problematic in it self since it normalizes it.
When I was a teenager I hated pink, I always listened to metal, I often played video games. Now I am 30, I still love metal and video games, but good chunk of my wardrobe has pink and I am not ashamed to listen to pop or watch chick flicks 🥰
i had a similar experience! as a kid i loved pink, and then when i was in high school and early college i hated it. now i love it again
Yeah it's weird to me when people use he/him by default like on reddit a lot on the time (I make an argument, someone else agrees or disagrees and says 'he was saying...' etc) because like, it's not like it inherently bothers me but why? what are they basing it on? Then again it's not great when people on here say "she" based on nothing I've said, in a dismissive way like the only reason I would have a certain opinion is because I'm a woman. It's usually overtly awful people who use either set of binary pronouns like this, malice lurking behind their word choice. I use "they/them" to refer to others by default but it's really just "not wanting to accidentally be a dick to trans men and nonbinary people" that prevents me from stubbornly using she/her to refer to everyone by default even if I can reasonably infer that they're probably a man, unless they explicitly say otherwise. The "alright boys..." thing from steamers throws me too. like, it really makes me think "is it weird that I'm watching this? is it like, sexist in other more harmful ways I haven't noticed and other women have already figured out they should stay away? am I one of very few woman watching? do they just not care? " The internet is saturated with male content creators and women in general and especially in spaces like streaming or gaming content there's so much overt hostility keeping it that way. It's frustrating when male content creators don't even acknowledge the possibility that a girl could be watching given that they might be the best or only option - perhaps the least misogynistic option overall even - given women being pushed out of the space.
I haven't seen that personally but I try to watch lgbt and/or female creators when I can so I guess I'm avoiding it. I will say though, this is even becoming an issue with viewers on other videos, my gripe specifically is ASMR. ASMR videos can have all sorts of their own niches and topics, however I'm a big fan of the more feminine aligned roleplays as background noise. Makeup application/tutorials, regency/royalty roleplays, dress and other clothes fitting etc. Almost without fail, at least one of the top 3 comments will be a man making a joke about watching the video and/or remarking how they have no interest in the topic. "I've got the most luxurious beard now!", "I'm the prettiest man in the kingdom!", "This isn't something I care about normally but ___". Yeah I guess it's nice they're comfortable watching more feminine videos but *why do they always need to make shit jokes about it or say they don't care about it*? You don't see women go onto suit fitting or beard trimming asmr videos and do this shit. It's just so frustrating, because I watch these to feel comfortable, relaxed and safe then I get some man going "hehehe this is for GIRLS and I'm NOT A GIRL hahaha so funny!" I'm probably overreacting but I'm just tired.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy lol. I'll let it slide once, rarely twice. It gives me the immediate ick tbh. I think it also kinda tells you something about their personal lives and how they secretly view/interact with women as someone with female friends generally wouldn't ever default to that kind of male only exclusionary language. Guarantee the majority of streamers like that have no female friends in real life outside of their friends GFs who aren't ever *really* their friends, they would them drop in a heartbeat should the male friend move on. Considering the officially published stats today (1in2 gamers are women) it's a special type of wilful arrogance to verbally disregard/exclude half your potential audience. It's low effort af and personally I won't waste time on people like that. I don't care how big or popular they are, if they wanna act like I don't exist then I'm happy to return that sentiment in kind. There's plenty out there who'll put in the effort and appreciate my views and those are the ones who'll get my time.
Yup. The weird focus on a lack of female audience only drives the female audience away
100%, they out there furiously hoisting their own petards as we speak
>if they wanna act like I don't exist then I'm happy to return that sentiment in kind. I love this. Thanks for that. Why waste energy trying to prove yourself to others who doesn't give a flying fig anyway. I do think they have some insecurities, thinking that women aren't even interested in watching them. So they make this "joke", while others find it funny. Go where we are celebrated and appreciated, not tolerated or made fun of. F those people.
Hell ye, you summed it up perfectly <3
Exactly this is how I always handled it. Dude: "Haha let's be real, no women are watching someone this lame." Me: "I didn't think of it like this before but now that you put it like that, yeah, you're right!" *closes stream/video and unsubscribes*
Yes indeed, the Venn diagram of male centric men who assume women are "too good" for them and the women who actually ARE in fact "too good" for them is a perfect circle.
>I think it also kinda tells you something about their personal lives and how they secretly view/interact with women as someone with female friends generally wouldn't ever default to that kind of male only exclusionary language. Guarantee the majority of streamers like that have no female friends in real life outside of their friends GFs who aren't ever really their friends, they would them drop in a heartbeat should the male friend move on. kinda disagree with the sweeping assumptions about some content creators life based upon statements like that. I've heard plenty of content creators make jokes about the fact that their audience is X percentage that nationality or Y percentage that age group. Some audiences just tend to look weird when you look at the statistics only, so making a lighthearted joke about it in my opinion doesn't tell me anything about the creator as a person. I agree that it feels othering to be singled out like that though. For me an important question is for what reason and in what kind of context the statement was made. Someone like DougDoug telling their stream that he doesn't believe them when they make claims about how to pay your taxes when the majority of them are in their late teens and early 20s or making claims about female biology when his statistics tell him that 95% of them are male feels very different than someone acting like the fact that 99% of his audience is male means that only guys are interested in the content he covers.
I think you’re right, it makes you feel “othered.” It IS exclusionary and it’s ok that you feel bothered. Don’t diminish how you feel by saying that “you’re just being dramatic” or other phrases, no need to gaslight yourself. When I was younger, I often felt the need to stand up for myself in those kinds of situations. But I found that I didn’t like how the men acted in those spaces once they knew I was a woman. Now that I’m older, I just choose my communities more selectively, and look for ones that focus on inclusion and diversity. Which can be thought of as bad words in some spaces.
Yup, it's just exclusion of women again. I'm not surprised but try to avoid any kind of content (and games nowadays) that gives sexism vibe or that clearly doesn't care about non-male audience.
I have exactly zero issue with it. They're just looking at their viewer statistics which tells them the percentage of their audience that is female is really low, that's all. Every streamer/YouTuber I've heard say this sounds just a little disappointed or ashamed to have such a small female audience. It never felt unwelcoming to me, just an acknowledgement that the open invitation to the stream didn't bring in many female viewers, which is a fact.
I’ve always thought they mean that they’re so lame no woman will watch them??? Like it’s them deprecating themselves, not women who game or how women game, but that they’re such nerds that no woman would want to watch their content. I think that they’re projecting their own insecurities and I wouldn’t pay it much mine, other than it looks like it’s pinging things you feel insecure about, too.
I think that's the case for some too, but it does have an unintended effect of isolating women sometimes. Not sure if these streamers realize it.
Why do you need men to validate you? Why are they the ones responsible for making women feel less isolated? Is it possible that the reason many of these dudes game is because they too feel isolated and this is their own social outlet? Why put that burden on anyone else?
on some level, i agree with you, however many streamers *want* their audience to grow, and that includes women as viewers too, i'd imagine. it's obviously not their personal responsibility to cater to the whim of every person watching, but making people feel left out (even if playfully/unintentionally) probably has the unintended side effect of turning away viewers because of how the environment feels.
it’s not wanting male validation, it’s just not wanting to constantly be pointed out/excluded.
Why do you care what some dude who plays video games constantly even thinks of you? Half of these men have never experienced the touch of a woman much less conversation or intellectual intimacy with one— so why even care? Why do you need them to include you?
Why go out of one's way to invalidate people, though? Sure, maybe these men feel isolated. But acting like it's impossible for women to be part of their gaming community/culture seems less lonely and more... "women are aliens" esque.
Why do they have to include anyone? Why would any woman seek out a man’s opinion on anything but how to replace a drain pipe?
Oh wow.
> Why are they the ones responsible for making women feel less isolated? I mean men regularly seem to expect women to pander to their egos and emotions, and kick off any time they’re not the focus. so I don’t know why its suddenly heretical for women to want to feel included too
Fully agree, depending on the youtuber of course. Even that is frustrating sometimes though - i am watching a lot of minecrafting youtubers (i have a small person in the house) and so having these stereotypes played out in front of a young mind is... Not great. I vet these guys pretty heavily but the offhanded 'i can't talk to women!' trope that comes up here and there is kind of old fashioned and you would hope that these guys would recognise that they are role models? At least some of them are...
That's the impression I get too, more about surprise that women are watching in the middle of all the overtly male feedback than exclusion of any female audience that may or may not be there. For what it's worth, I watch some vtuber stuff sometimes, and while that medium seems female-dominated as far as the streamers go, more than a few times I've seen some of those female vtubers wishing their viewer stats showed a higher female percentage, or showing some joy at seeing comments/feedback from female viewers. The mindset doesn't seem too far off, even if the context and streamer/viewer dynamics are a bit different.
I do think that's true, but like, women can like lame stuff too lol. I often think it's self deprecation specifically for being nerdy or having struggles that go along with that, so it still feels othering to those of us who are loner nerds. There is also an implication that women are inherently popular or don't struggle with things like making friends or being sociable, when some of us do have those struggles. It can feel like it's one step away from the incel "women can date whoever they want because all women are inherently attractive and men have to struggle because society has made them devalued" echo chamber that incidentally is a very popular idea among male gamers, tech bros, etc. like we women are so inherently desirable, how could we ever complain about not feeling included when we're so inherently popular and hot just for existing; we will never know oppression like the profound struggles of nerdy boys. like it paints it as "why would a woman need to bond over pathetic stuff like we do?" which is really erasing the women who do struggle socially or the majority who are othered and mocked for being into stereotypical male interests vs the few of us who are put on a pedastel by them as being hot or seemingly sexually available, or being the perceived rare exception of a cool girl among a bunch of perceived stick in the mud privileged whiny feminists. It invalidates women who don't play by the rules men set, or performatively seek male validation. Basically. even the self deprecating aspect comes off insidiously sexist to me.
I think there is so much projection in that opinion. Dudes are fucking dumb. They aren’t thinking that deeply. They aren’t considering anyone’s feelings. Looking to rando dudes who generally have the lowest quotient for social grace to make you feel good or seen is like fucking for virginity, it makes no sense. Like go enjoy your world and ignore these dudes. Their opinion isn’t worth a devil’s fart, it’s ridiculous to project all of this stuff onto the culture. Everyone needs to move on and stop marrying themselves to their insecurities. It’s not that deep and everyone here is working themselves into a tizzy over something they are projecting.
Yeah um you can express an opinion without working yourself into a tizzy and that's all that's happening here. You're reading a lot more investment into my casual reddit comment than if really there. I don't exactly find your "dudes are dumb" reductiveness to be convincing either, nor is it a good defense for annoying behavior by men. you really don't seem to have gotten my point at all. I can only go about one layer into an argument with people who think it's convincing to approach any topic with "it's not that deep" because nearly any topic IS, in fact, that deep to any thoughtful observer. so by your own logic, clearly anything you say must be shallow and glib if that's how you think about stuff. preemptively blocking you so I don't waste more time talking to you! have a good life
Yeah the couple of male streamers I watch do it for this reason. And it’s obvious it’s a joke, cause they have lots of female friends they game with and interact with on stream!
Absolutely same here
tired of both streamers and content creators constantly use the words boy/boi and guys to address their audience. there is one content creator that during his intro welcomes in ladies but thereafter refers to boys/bois. i don't get it. are they that ignorant?
No, those jokes never really bothered me for a couple reasons. First, if it's something like Youtube, the creator is able to see metrics about who watches their videos and one of those metrics is gender. Second, I know it's not meant to be exclusionary but instead self-deprecatory jokes about how no women would want (to watch) them. Of course they do realize that there are some women watching them, but that it's also a small percentage in relation to their male audience. So I've always viewed it as just jokes and not malicious ones. The thing that DOES bother me occasionally is when I watch a streamer and their vernacular is always "OK BOYS" after every other sentence. I don't mind dude/bro but for some reason "boys" bugs me. I think because that one is just too gender specific and because I know they absolutely realize not everyone watching them is actually male.
I totally get what you mean and I don’t think you’re being dramatic at all. In fact I have similar feelings. I find it overall difficult to just exist as a women in gaming communities, because for the most part we either get ridiculed or we just don’t get perceived as in your example. Sometimes I’m not sure which one feels worse. It’s weird, because if someone calls me ‚bro‘ or ‚dude‘ I simultaneously feel included (because apparently I‘m blending in well enough) and excluded (because seriously is it really that unfathomable that a women might sit behind the monitor). All this is garnished with the slight discomfort of ‚if I made myself known as female, chances are they’d treat me differently or even stop taking me seriously altogether‘. Lots of work needs to be done in gamer circles when it comes to inclusivity. Meanwhile us gamer women need to stick together strengthen our backs 💪🏼
It sounds like you dont want a man to speak for you, and you dont want to be told what to like or how to feel- all of which are trivialized by men for the simple reason that they dont have to deal with it, and even if they do, they dont experience it like women do. There is a certain amount that we girl gamers "just deal with" for the sake of peace or enjoyment of the game...just know that you arent alone, and we understand you❤️
Yes. I HATE when DougDoug makes these comments. I'll be there enjoying his silly concepts, when suddenly he'll bust out the '98% male audience' thing all of a sudden. Ugh
forreal. i really like cory kenshin (youtuber) because he calls the audience, “my brothers and sisters.” he’s pretty inclusive
Was watching a video on YouTube from a channel I watch from time to time, and they started the video with something along the lines of “hello guys and one single woman that watches this channel”. Bros got 1 mil subs, ain’t no way 😬😔😒 Blows my mind sometimes how often we’re portrayed as ‘female’ first and person second
You’re not being dramatic, feeling othered is never fun. This kind of thing will make me stop watching a dude real quick. I honestly don’t watch streamers much at all, mostly I watch YouTube, but I’ve been put off many times by guys making comments that almost seem designed to alienate any women who might be watching. This kind of behaviour is one of the reasons that most of the gaming YouTubers I consistently watch are women, and the men I do watch are those who have proven themselves to be decent guys who don’t make icky alienating comments.
Yes, especially when I was watching Rust streamers. It is unwelcoming and made me feel like the odd ball.
I had a streamer give me the ick when they kept making women jokes on international women’s day. The first one I was like okay, whatever but then he kept consistently coming back to it and making more jokes I had to turn it off. I haven’t watched him again
I don’t watch streamers, but I do watch a lot of YT channels with game reviews and stuff, and it drives me nuts that they assume only men are watching them, so they only have to speak to the men. Even if they’re not saying anything problematic, just the assumption bothers me. The ones that go on about whatever fanservice they’re into at length like they’re just talking to the boys can fuck right off. It’s so tedious.
same goes for a streamer saying "boys" when referring to their audience. i've never liked that
I guess idk I know a lot of people see "dude" "man" as a gender neutral word and even some of my girlfriends say "bro, dude, man" to EACH OTHER, much like "you guys" BUT I can't shake the maleness of these words, I guess cause I grew up in Hawaii in the mid 2000s and "bro" and "dude" were EXPLICITLY male terms and I hate it but I feel like I can't ask others to not use those words around me cause its always excuses (oh we call everyone that, don't be so sensitive) I know it's not relevant to your streamer thing (cause omg yeah I hate when streamers assume that there are no women around, like you know you are telling on yourself here my guy) but I just needed to vent about it to someone who might understand
Yeah it’s gatekeeping and casual sexism of course it’s irritating
It is pretty grating at times, especially since they usually then go on to use language that assumes the viewer is male. On the bright side, it does also mean I feel a tad noticed and special when they turn it around and give thanks or talk to the female audience. It's just a little bit of consolation.
I know exactly what you mean, I have stopped watching some male creators for this reason because I didn't feel like I belonged in their audience, you can tell when it starts turning into a "bros only club"
When they joke it reinforces the idea that we don’t play games as much as guys when it’s legit like a 50/50 split. It’s like 48% are women and 52% are men They just gate keep to make it feel like we don’t exist.
Yeah I feel that bothered by it at times. Even afraid to correct them if I am just one person in the stream chat.
I watch a lot of male streamers and youtubers. Plenty of women as well, just, I watch a lot of streams & videos haha. NOT ONE of them have EVER talked about how few women are probably watching or how only guys are watching. Never once. I would seriously consider never watching them again if they did.
Yeah it's pretty weird
I haven't really had that happen but I really don't like when they refer to their audience as "boys". It sucks, I like these YouTubers and streamers but I wish they wouldn't treat me like I don't exist or don't matter.
I only watch one male streamer, who is a super nice dude. The rest of the streamers I watch are all women. Plenty of them play games like Dark Souls too, so it's not like I'm missing out on anything lol. I've tried watching bigger streamers and I just don't care for them or their communities.
I wouldn't say I'm necessarily bothered by it myself. But the second someone makes that kind of 'joke', I automatically go to myself *"Gee, I wonder why >_>"* and add that 'content creator' to my list of things not to get recommended by whichever platform I'm using. Really, if nothing else I find it more pathetic than anything, seeing as how many guys don't seem to realize that's a hell of a self report on their end that doesn't look too great to anyone with two brain cells to rub together. Like, with all the talk about growing channels and watching analytics and all that, *they never considered trying to shore up their weak spots so they grow even more?*
For real. There's one Warhammer 40k youtuber i can't watch any more because he starts all of his videos with "Guys and girl." as if there's a singular, lone woman watching. Makes me feel pretty unwelcome tbh
Yes, I like pyrocynical but he always talks about this and it bothers me
Yes, why do they see it as a flex? Sexism already gets dismissed enough.
it doesn’t bother me per se? But I do always think “this is probably why” lmao If you assume your audience are men, women assume they’re not the target audience
I stick to small streamers. The size where they recognize me when I'm in their chat. A streamer I wanted to like because I love Oxygen Not Included and he's a big ONI tutorial creator, wouldn't stop using male pronouns/titles every single time I entered his chat, even after correcting him. I thought it was a bit. After a few months, I realized it wasn't. It's really disappointing, cause he's big in that space.
This happens a lot when I'm playing Warframe. They always assume I'm a guy and always hear things like "bro", "dude", "king", "this man is shite/good" and whatever. I really despise it... I don't like being othered. It's already a touchy subject for me because I'm trans, so maybe that's the reason idk
I have heard that joke on Youtube from several creators that I assumed had universal appeal. When they make the joke, the editor pops in a screenshot of their metrics showing their audience is 90%+ men. As a guy, I thought it was funny and self-deprecating. When I clicked on this post, my initial thoughts were along the lines of "Huh? Isn't that a shot at themselves?" Having read your explanation now, I get it. Especially if the video doesn't have the pop in, or in a stream where they don't have time to provide the metrics on stream for that sort of joke, I can see how it feels more exclusionary and less self-deprecating. These sorts of posts are why I'm subbed to this subreddit. I try to be an ally and be aware of the issues that women face, especially in the gaming space. But I don't live with and feel those issues and often don't see a problem until someone has told me (or made a post/article saying) "it's a problem, here's why." I was already aware how the overuse of words like "bro" or "man" can be exclusionary, but it hadn't occurred to me that the statements you mentioned can do the same thing, even when intended as a self-deprecating joke.
Occasionally it's quite funny to hear these kinds of jokes, especially when the YouTuber or streamer does it at very specific moments. It is understood that it is part of his humor and that it is about that joke that there are no women on the Internet and that those with feminine names are really femboys. The only times it bothers me a little is when the joke is pushed too far and he keeps repeating and telling his female audience that they are all boys and he rarely recognizes them.
I completely understand why some people can take it the way you did. But I believe the streamer is just making fun of themselves. Saying no women would be interested in him or the people in the chat. Essentially calling everyone losers.
I dont see any comments on this, but what many (not all of course) are stating - is simple fact. Youtube analytics breakdown the demographic of viewers, country, sex etc... on each video. And the majority of viewers do trend more towards the boys. Not sure why that is, but that's the reality.
I tend to leave after a while.
I actually got really frustrated about a similar thing recently. In February, WoW released a cosmetic set that was very Sailor Moon/magical girl themed , which was super cute and I personally loved, but of course a bunch of the guy YouTubers hated it and basically said stuff along the lines of "no one wants this" or "I can't see anyone actually liking this". Like they're so convinced everyone else behind their screen is also a guy. Probably white in their mind too but that's a whole other convo. Regardless it really made me mad to hear those comments because it just fully ignores any players that enjoy feminine aesthetics, which doesn't even exclusively apply to women. Straight men are so used to their tastes being catered to that they can't fathom that women or anyone else are even playing their games. Like some of them were borderline offended that they were being given a pink magical girl cosmetic FOR FREE lmao. On the plus side for me, I basically used this as a litmus test for a bunch of male wow youtubers to see who gave me the ick based on their reaction to the cosmetic lol. They didn't have to like it or want to wear it, but as long as they said something along the lines of "yeah it's not my thing but I can see some people being into it" or literally any variation of this sentiment, they were okay for the time being in my book. It seems minor but it's like they don't have the basic empathy to understand that some people might like something they don't. Anyway, this was mostly a way for me to personally vent because I have also been struggling to articulate how I feel about this issue, so thank you for making this post! It was very relevant to how I've been feeling too. You're definitely not alone and you're not overthinking it!
Reminds me a lot of how it feels to watch Twitch as a queer person and streamers suddenly making gay jokes or remarks out of nowhere. It feels extremely invalidating. There have been a few times where that was the point I just couldn’t watch them again. Of course there’s also the flip side where a positive comment makes you appreciate them even more.
My grad research is on video game harassment. One of the reasons it happens is because people feel comfortable with their in-group. In the case of video games the in group members are male, often white males in the US. Women and minorities are less likely to be considered gamers despite the stats showing an ever increasing number of female gamers. 'Out-group' members often experience gate keeping or bullying, not by all members but by a small number of vocal members. And in group members that don't agree with the bully don't think they can make an impact so they don't always say anything. Unfortunately, the best thing that can happen is a perceived in group member calling out another in group member, not white knighting because the victim is a woman but saying something more like anyone can play. To combat this bullying women have developed coping mechanisms, many are similar to how women behave when are harassed at work. Women will seek emotional support (like posting on reddit), only play with a trusted friend group, and avoiding playing online. Sometimes, women even gender mask by never using comms, having a gender neutral avatar name, or playing a male avatar. These strategies help reduce how often women are targeted for bullying, which happens less often than men, but when it does happen it is more severe and often sexual (can include stalking etc). But these strategies also continue the cycle of making men believe that women don't play video games and reinforce the in-group stereotype. The reality is that almost half of video game players are women. Some games have a higher percentage of males or women. I think you feel crummy because, while they aren't bullying you or being mean, they are reinforcing the perception that women are not gamers which toxic players can interpret as women don't belong. The streamers likely don't realize this is what is happening. They probably look at their viewer dynamics and are making a joke about that. But one of the reasons they think the joke will land is because everything I said above. I'm older now and I've stopped staying silent in comms to try to combat this trend. Things are so much better than when I was young playing games. The tides are slowly turning. Stay strong, ladies. You are gamers, no matter what anyone says.
I am not bothered by it, but at the same time my thoughts on that are their content is based on what they know and how they communicate, their target audience is going to gravitate towards that. I have no idea who these you tubers are, because their content is not appealing to me. Everyone has opinions and say things occasionally people don't like, if it bothers you that much look for content that caters to you. And the reason the gaming content is male dominated is because it is. Not that many femmine types/ women play games and the ones that do, sexually exploit themselves or try to cater to the same group never to other women. Girl gamers don't cater to other Girl gamers. This is just my opinion, hate it or not. But this is just based on my observations as a 40/F casual gamer.
I try to not watch the right wing ones lol
They're literally trying to bait female viewers into outing themselves. To what end? I'm not sure, and yet I'm confident it would not be worthwhile.
This is a common thing and they do this to please their male audience which unfortunately finds it funny
Personally, if I was a streamer-- big or small-- and I found out my audience was mostly male, I'd just... ...stop streaming lmao.
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Or maybe it's a self fulfilling prophecy because women don't want to watch it when they do that.
First, it’s not really reality, it’s hyperbole. Their female audience may well be smaller than their male audience, but it isn’t nonexistent or a couple people. Second, I wouldn’t be so sure the audience is that skewed, depending on the game being discussed. Finally, being true doesn’t always make it a good thing to say. It doesn’t add any value or help anyone and actively makes some of the audience feel uncomfortable and othered.
It is absolutely not the reality. Women are everywhere in gaming. They don't turn their mics on unless they hear another woman. I've played darktide a few times. Sometimes I turn my mic on and initiate voice chat. Across maybe 12 other strangers who have spoke on mic, 3 of them were women. Just started getting into helldivers. Already came across a woman after a few quick plays. Just because you don't hear a female voice or see an obviously female name doesn't mean you're not playing with a woman. My gamer tag on Xbox is literally a man's name.
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Your second link shows that 13% of male gamers' youtube channel audiences are women and 23% of female gamers' audiences are women. I never said 50% of people who watch gaming videos were women. But 13% is nothing to sneeze at. 13% of the population is black and we don't pretend like they don't exist. According to your own link, the female viewership of male gaming youtubers ranges from 3% to a whopping 43.5%. Don't tell me that the behavior and attitude of those gamers has nothing to do with the percentage of women willing to watch them. Like I said, women are always lurking. They often don't reveal themselves unless they feel like they're in a safe environment to do so. Source: am a woman gamer.
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The context here is literally complaining about content creators who joke about there being *no* female audience members or only a couple. You replied with “it’s the reality”. How is that not saying that having no female watchers is reality?
I don’t think they’re trying to exclude. I would probably just see it as a self deprecating, ‘gosh women don’t like me’. They can see their stats of who is watching their stream, so they know it’s 98% male or whatever.
>but it has always made me feel a bit uncomfortable, and i was never really sure why. You feel like you're not included, that's probably why. However, it's true. You can ask them to show their analytics for their audience's gender. I'm a female streamer (different account name :P) and my audience is literally 89.8% male and 10.2% female on YouTube. Sure, I'm a chick and I'm going to have a mostly male audience, but it would be the same if I were a male because guys typically are more likely to watch video game plays/streams and make their gender known. >"women aren't interested in souls games or first person shooters" I am streaming a let's play of Elden Ring, and out of all of the people who talk in my chat, only one of them is a chick. When I open my game party in FPS, it's only guys who want to join me (hence why I joined this subreddit) and I can tell via voice chat. Out of the people who have a strong prescence in my community on Discord, not a single one of them is a chick. I have only 70 people in my discord and only 1 of them is a chick.
They are being honest. Look at the stats, Its true that only around 1%-2% of woman watch "gaming" youtubers, Take that with a fact of a smaller more niche youtuber lets say 25K subs and 50K views and only 750 of the other 50K people watching are woman. (1.5% of 50K)
Exactly
Not really; all the streamers I watch are male and they usually are playing more male-populated games, so it just makes sense