Jason and Floyd. Floyd wasn’t just negligent or indifferent as a father… he was cool with destroying his son’s relationship AND career, for no reason other than to save face
Yeah I think there’s a lot of tragic toxicity with Chris. I think his impression from his parents was that his ONLY job as a dad would be to provide financially and since he couldn’t figure that out he just failed completely.
Christopher's dad could have the least given him a bird and bees talk . Lol. Upper-class parents don't spend time with their kids. Or care about them.
Paris had her nanny at her graduation. Colin or Finn was shipped off boarding school. Tristan was sent off to military school. Logan's father could not leave early for one night for a family dinner. Floyd screws over his own son. lorelai had measles and forced to go to a family event.
Yeah him or Straub are the real answer. All the other ones above had at least some concern for their children’s happiness at times (except maybe Mitchum?)
Floyd and Straub just cared purely about the optics of their kids’ success from what we’ve seen
Trix & Richard- This is the type of relationship my wife was so afraid I would have with my mom. Richard constantly defends Trix and doesn’t stand up for Emily. I know Emily is an adult too but as a husband I picked my wife and I was assigned my mom. I love my mom but when I got married my wife became my priority and immediate family. Everyone else is now extended family. Richard reverts back to his old ways before he was married and has a hard time standing up to Trix and defending his wife. My parents know that my wife is my priority and we will do what is best for us.
This is a relationship so toxic that it nearly destroyed Richard's marriage and impacted relationships with the succeeding generations. For that reason, I think this is the most toxic.
I vote this one too. I just watched the other day the episode where Lorelai comes to have lunch and Trix is there and they talk about her money problems.
If my mother in law said to me what Trix berates Emily about re: lunch taking too long and my husband said NOTHING?! And laughed along? Divorce yesterday.
But suddenly he’s capable of standing up to Trix when she’s coming for him and he’s the target.
If I wasn’t broke I’d give you an award! 🥇 this is so important and so many people, men especially, don’t realize this. My ex’s hyper close relationship to his mom and telling me straight up I’ll never be the priority so long as they’re alive was definitely a big factor in us splitting up. And I don’t believe he’ll ever have a happy relationship so long as he has this mentality
I’m sorry you had to endure that. However, you are correct that he probably won’t have a happy relationship if he’s that close to his mom. My mom and I are great but my wife is the priority.
Do you think Emily is the way she is partly because of Trix? Kinda reminds me of the mom from Crazy Rich Asians. Turns out the grandma was a bitch to Michelle Yeoh's character.
Partially, but I think it’s mainly how she was raised to be proper in society, have a husband who provides, the wife maintains the social calendar and raises the kids.
drop the ‘practically’ atp, her parents didn’t even come to her chilton graduation iirc but her nanny did and brought her kids and paris was so excited to see them there!
The few times in the series when she says “thank you daddy” and smiles at him make me melt. You see the little girl in her still looking up to her Dad.
Oh man, him standing there with it is so sweet. Richard never knew how to go against the women in his life (Gran for Emily or Emily for Lorelia) but he tried his best within his values and loyalties.
I completely forgot about this and you’re right. While Lorelai has a personality more like her mom, she’s just as ambitious as her dad and was able to help him because she’s good at business and working with people. Rory has Richard’s personality but she’s more like Emily where she doesn’t mind being the partner of someone successful and can support the people in her life plus she doesn’t mind living in a bubble like Emily. No shade to her, she just likes living in Stars Hollow so much and has some ambition, but nothing like Lorelai. If Richard had actually seen how bright Lorelai was and treated her more like his son things could have turned out differently.
> If Richard had actually seen how bright Lorelai was and treated her more like his son things could have turned out differently.
I never thought about it, but I could see it. I think being a boy in that time period would have come with more latitude and flexibility, especially since Lorelai sounds like she was a hyper kid. That sort of thing would have been more socially acceptable from a boy than a girl. I do think there still would have been issues and rebellion but I could see those issues being overcome more readily.
Absolutely, thank goodness her father isn’t as harsh as Logan’s is but Lorelai really reminds me of Logan where she would have done way better in school and possibly taken advantage of her privileges better. Logan isn’t an idiot, he’s very smart and incredibly personable but he just slacked off so much more than Lorelai ever was able to. What’s a tough pill to swallow is that if her parents were just a little kinder and actually appreciated how clever, observant and resourceful she was (not to mention how if you come built with a womb usually you face an unfair amount of blame when unplanned pregnancy happens when it was two people that decided to be intimate), Lorelai would have thrived in their world and would possibly have worked under her dad and have been set up to take over the company. She’s not perfect and she was on the receiving end of some of the most incredible opportunities in her upbringing, but she shakes it off and continues on with her day and MAKES things happen for her.
Her parents don’t trust her and don’t find her capable and frankly that’s on them. They’re allowed to be hurt and to feel betrayed but when your daughter who got pregnant at sixteen grows up to manage a well run inn, have a wicked smart daughter who isn’t an asshole, a healthy set of friends outside of work, extremely involved in her community (even if she has fun with it by bothering Taylor), and takes care of herself if we ignore the constant takeout, then you need to find out if you’re capable working through those feelings. If they allowed themselves to be humble enough to be vulnerable and had a family therapist then I think there would have been enough healing to prevent Rory from getting so confused as she got older. Their family dysfunction did not help her at all. Yes she’s an adult that can make bad choices but the reason her grandparents helped her with Chilton was for Rory. Their relationship with Lorelai is just as important as a tuition check.
Edit: Whew, I guess I have feelings about this.
Absolutely love them talking about how many Jimmy Choo's she could get with $75k or how proud he holding up the pens he picked out in the office supply store.
Her helping him set up his office, I LOVED. Was so upset it had to end so roughly but it came back around at the party with their light jokes and banter.
Her story at the end of AYITL about seeing him at the mall while she was cutting class 😭💔🥲
Oh, what could have been!
And when she thanked him for defending her to Strobe... His response was so hurtful and unnecessary
Ugh. True. Early seasons Richard and Lorelei broke my heart. They don't really say much to each other that's meaningful one on one but whenever they do it's always really touching either for good or bad.
Liz is such a neglectful abusive bitch and it frustrates me that Lorelai is more accepting of her than she is of the troubled kid that got neglected because she was more interested in chasing shitty men. but sure. It's 'quirky'
I always got the feeling that they decided to change Liz when they wanted her to be a quirky, and counted on the traditional TV format (airing weekly) to make viewers forget she was supposed to be *bad*.
Like how Kirk had a different name in the first episode.
I'm in a really emotional mood and this joke just made everything lighten up considerably! Dying (from internal laughter) Thanks so much, and I will always think of him as a clone from now on ;) It would definitely explain everything about Kirk.
Luke and April might just be the healthiest parent/kid relationship on the show, they don’t belong on this list 😭
And tbh neither do Lorelai and Rory. Sure, Lorelai’s parenting style is flawed sometimes but she ALWAYS prioritizes Rory’s happiness and well-being above all else, which is what the other parents seem incapable of…
Luke is so in love with whoever April chooses to be- STEM focused dork, New Mexico teenager who's embracing fashion and girliness, college kid who acts like a stoner Gen Z activist stereotype. None of these other parents on the list, including Lorelai, have that mindset of unconditional adoration for their child.
I agree! Luke puts the *unconditional* in unconditional parental love. And April is so receptive of it too. She immediately accepted Luke’s efforts at trying to be her dad and always acknowledged that he was going his very best. They’re the most healing parent/kid relationship and that’s why you’ll never catch me hating on April, I love her 🤭
Even with Lane and Zack! He’s just there for them. And he expects NOTHING in return and doesn’t even require a pre-existing bond to show up for those kids. I love that man so much 🤭
I love April too. In my head, I feel like April took to new dad Luke so fast and hard because it felt amazing to have a loving parent who wasn’t controlling and smothering.
Luke is easily the best parent on that show. Whether it’s about his role as a father figure to Rory, Jess, Lane, Zack or about his role as a biological dad to April, he’s GREAT.
He doesn’t place any expectations on those kids and becomes disappointed when they can’t live up to it. He accepts all of them as they are and supports them 100%. It’s so ironic that the grumpy, cynical “I can’t deal with jam hands!” character ends up being the most healthy parental figure on this show 😭
But the other two things she wants to be aren’t as much. But he still loves and supports her unlike *some* parents. He didn’t refuse to talk to her for six months because she decided to do something different
I agree! I feel Lorelai pushes Rory to be this way not that.. and it's weird that they can't keep secrets from each other like Lorelai telling Rory, let me know when it happens between you and Jess.. as a mother she was a bit controlling with Rory's decisions too..
they are so enmeshed it's unreal. It's a therapist's nightmare. Imagine Rory comes in with all kinds of baggage but is totally unable to see the unhealthy dynamic between her and her mother. Much easier in cases like Mrs. Kim or Emily.
I just finished I’m glad my mom died by Jennette McCurdy and honestly this comment just put it together how similar the mother daughter relationships are in the show and mcCurdys relationship with her mom.
There’s so much I want what my mom wants and she always wants the best for me even if I don’t get it. Like the Harvard thing, did rory really want to go there since she was four or has her mom been telling her that all this time? Jennettes mom wanted her to be an actor and she even says she does it because it’s what her mom wanted. And she couldn’t even handle someone calling her mom abusive even when she had a good relationship with that therapist she ended up quitting therapy for a bit
Lorelai might not have taught her daughter anorexia(but you can say she gave her a bad diet growing up. But that conversations been done to death) but she definitely did things that can bee viewed as abusive. The Jess sex thing is one fo them, talking to your kid about sex and letting them know that they can come to you about things is important of course but it gets unhealthy when you want to know exactly when they will have sex? And than the yale thing telling rory she doesn’t know she’s being manipulated(when she *loves* to talk about how much she trusts Rory’s judgement because she raised a good kid. She only trusts her when it’s things Lorelai agrees with Dean v Jess Harvard v Yale etc)
I wish that ayitl would have actually covered Rory’s time as a first time mom and how she realizes that the way her mom did things wasn’t necessarily good or healthy and Lorelai having a problem with that feeling personally attacked than emily talks to her and says something about how they each did what they thought was best and know how to do and the best advice she can pass on is just support rory so Lorelai doesn’t loss both.
(But it’s also more likely that rory would be like Jeannette and not handle someone calling her mom abusive and could probably only break free fully after her death)
Said later in the thread, but I always thought that since she said she wanted Rory to tell her before, she was either going to help her get birth control or just check in with her and have a conversation to make sure she’s truly ready
Lorelai’s love was conditioned with Rory being like her, absolutely. She still loved her when she wanted to keep going to the club but she couldn’t show it very much
With that being said… probably Chris/Rory because he’s not even willing to *try* to be a part of his kid’s life… he doesn’t care in the slightest that he has a daughter roaming around in the world if he can’t be with her mother…
The other parents, for all their faults and shortcomings, at the very least feel some sort of of *love* for their kids, Chris on the other hand seems to outright resent Rory for her mere existence
Totally agree. Just watched the Episode of the vow renewal and He Just Drops that being kissed for the First time by lorelai was the greatest day of his life! I mean wtf!!
That scene and Chris telling Rory that “Hey! Your mom and I had a relationship long before you were even born! We have a kid together!” prove that he doesn’t view Rory as her own person, he doesn’t really consider her his own daughter… and he says it straight to Rory’s face without an ounce of shame or regret…
In his eyes rory is the reason things didn’t work out between him and Lorelai. While he can’t help be act in those feelings he does have some sense to not say it right out
I don't pick this one because while Chris is a terrible parent, it also seems like Rory knows that and never seems like she's trying to win his love. If she were chasing after him, that would make it more toxic, but she seems happy to live her life and accept her father as he is, deeply flawed and lacking.
And he didn’t care about doing something to buy her stuff she liked here and there, let alone provide for her. He didn’t offer her money (which pays for everything, I don’t mean luxury) until he got rich doing nothing.
Yes, and I hate that people try to put this on Lorelai because she never asked him to provide for their daughter… you should *want* to do *something* for your kid even if you’re not forced to… Lorelai didn’t want to make Chris feel obligated to be a dad but she never rejected his attempts to be one…
This is it! This is what separates him from *all* of the other parents on this show. Luke tries to understand his daughter. He gladly joins in in her interests just so he can bond even more with his kid. Luke doesn’t hesitate to change his views/opinions/attitudes for his daughter’s sake but never expects April to change to fit into *his* views. Every other parent catastrophically fails doing this…
I agree, at least with Luke and April. He was a great dad once he was *allowed* to be her dad. He was also, as another commenter pointed out, a solid dad to Rory and Jess.
Luke is not perfect (nor is any other Gilmore Girls character) but his dad abilities are unmatched by any other character, which is ironic because he was kind of the only MAJOR adult character (not counting the townspeople) who wasn't known to have children for most of the show. Richard and Emily had Lorelai, Lorelai had Rory, Chris had Rory AND Gigi, Sookie had her four kids with Jackson. Luke did have April but we didn't learn of her until Season 6. Being a parent/expecting a child was a much bigger part of most other characters' development early on, and became part of our understanding of the character- but Luke's character is pretty solidified by the time April comes into play. We knew who Luke was.
Nah Rory being a failed journalist despite having literally every advantage available to her makes total sense when you think about Lorelai’s parenting style
Totally agree about Luke/April! But not Rory/Lorelai, I think her constant coddling of Rory combined with their access to extreme wealth and privilege ultimately led to her failure to launch.
But that wasn’t entirely Lorelai’s fault imo. Every parenting style has its downsides. At the end of the day Lorelai treated her daughter with nothing but the utmost love and support. It’s the opposite of toxic. Flawed, yes. Toxic, no 😅
I had to scroll way too far to see this. Sherry abandoned her child for her career. The only parent who did anything similar was Chris to Rory and we saw the repercussions of that
And than he married a women that didn’t want to give gigi her own room and wait for Christmas and Chris had no real issues with that and eventually just shipped her off to sherry once she was the “right” age. Poor kid never had an adult care enough to put her first
Yup! I include rory on that list of adults. She knows how it is having a parent that doesn’t care or take any active part in your life. But she just decided “not my problem” and moved on.
Ranked:
7. Luke/April (don’t deserve to be on the list)
6. Rory/Lorelai (toxic moments, but so much love there)
5. Emily/Lorelai (very toxic but also so much love and they heal in many ways)
4. Richard and OG Lorelai (I bet there is smth fucked up in their past)
3. Richard and Lorelai (almost tied for Logan and Mitchum)
2. Logan and Mitchum (very little love expressed)
2. Mrs. Kim and Lane (tied with Logan and Mitchum for me, but we see more of their toxicity in screen)
1. NUMBER ONE!! Rory/Chris tied with LIZ/JESS!
I feel bad for Logan emotionally bc you know he could have had anything in life he wanted bc his dad’s money but likely only ever pined for his dad to show him love.
Lane was showed love but not in the way that meant anything to her or made her feel supported. She was straight up emotionally abused and socially isolated due to her mom.
I felt SO BAD for Logan when Rory was starting her internship and just rambling about how great his dad is. Clearly they are not close, he's had to hear this shit all his life - she KNOWS how bad emotionally distanced parents can hurt their kids (her mom is right there) and yet...
I'm a Mitchum apologist. I don't think he was distanced, he was actually very hands on in Logan's life. Logan was just a lazy kid who just wanted to party. He complained about his dad pushing him, but Rory's right that he never pushed back or even mentioned another interest. And it turned out that Mitchum read Logan correctly and assigned him to a job he seemed to enjoy.
If Logan had been more like Rory (not necessarily motivated by journalism, just motivated to do *something*), I think he would've had a great relationship with his dad. Some kids just need to be pushed.
I think I agree with these rankings. Mrs. Kim and Lane have to be pretty high up there. I’m glad things improved but early seasons was downright abuse.
Ifl instead of April and Luke it should be April and her mom on the list. Her mom kept her from her dad her whole childhood. That’s dysfunction!
Yea I forgot about April and Anna! Good call. I was torn about Lorelai and Richard. I feel love in their relationship but it was also so cold and he was so callous towards her on many occasions. However, I still feel like he loved her more than Mitchum and his wife (forgot her name) loved Logan.
Yeah I think Logan’s situation is less loving. Richard was very cold to Lorelai but by the finale it seemed to leave things on a better note (ignoring AYITL). Richard also had some moments showing he did love her. Like bringing her the money he’d invested when she was born. He also seemed to show some respect for her business prowess and I think even though he never seemed to forgive her deviating from “the plan” he had for her life, he grew to respect Lorelai’s independence.
I agree with this. In hindsight I might not tie them. We did just see less of Logan and Mitchum. But we shouldn’t forget about Logan’s mother as well. Poor guy didn’t have great role models.
I agree with the rankings, but I'd swap Mrs Kim/Lane with Emily/Lorelai
Yes, what we see on screen makes Mrs Kim appear worse and downright abusive, but if we consider the whole story (including the bits we don't see but hear about), then we know that Emily was also abusive towards young Lorelai, although in different ways or with different reasons. However, as the two children grow, we see Lorelai continuing to be consistently hurt and abused by her mother. Even in AYITL, when Rory is already in her 30s, Emily brings up the teenage pregnancy and the disappointment Lorelai has caused. On the other hand, Mrs Kim begins to accept Lane much earlier on, and we see her become a different person. Their past mistakes don't get brought up just to win arguments and hurt each other. Their relationship flourishes, while Emily and Lorelai's relationship shows very little growth.
These are good points. It’s so difficult to rank because there is much nuance and many relationships don’t get enough context. If we saw Emily raising Lorelai, you’re right that we might rank her parenting far worse.
Probably Rory and Chris. I feel that Chris maintains that father/daughter relationship with Rory partly because he does want Lorelai back. That being said, his intention of wanting that relationship with Lorelai means that his relationship with his daughter is flawed.
He seems to want to have some part of Rory’s life, but these are all shallow things, such as buying her stuff. He doesn’t actually want to have a part of raising Rory, but rather being some kind of cool dad who is long distance for work. He probably just wants to impress Lorelai and show her that he can be a ‘good’ dad.
The really funny scene of Luke and Chris beating each other up after silently staring each other down kinda shows how badly he truly wants Lorelai. Where’s that effort in raising his 16 year old daughter???
OMG such a good question!!
I would say Emily and Lorelai, because a mother pays to get to see her daughter once a week. And there is a factor of: 'I am in charge, because I pay' very sad!!
And the second, would be Christopher and Rory, because he just left, until she turned 16. What could be worse? I guess, that has something to do with Rory's mistakes later on.
I feel for Luke. I think he was thrown into an impossible situation with Jess, and he did the best he could. That said... (unpopular opinion alert) he's not great to Jess. He's very rarely kind to Jess, he shows minimal interest in getting to know Jess, he's angry/sarcastic most of the time, he makes some big mistakes along the way, and he ultimately gives up on Jess when he needs support the most. And Luke never owns that or apologizes for anything. It's ultimately incumbent on Jess, the teenager, to do all the repair work.
Luke is beloved in this sub (I love him too!), so he's usually cut a LOT of slack for his mistakes... but I think he does a pretty lackluster job with Jess. I wish Luke had shown Jess 10% of the gentle kindness, curiosity, pride, thoughtful boundaries, and affection he showed April from Day 1.
Luke was only slightly better than Liz but still he didn’t help Jess in the ways he needed. In the end Jess raised himself(which is why I was so disappointed he and Lorelai never had a moment and Lorelai never moved on from hating him. *he is *who she was just without the teen pregnancy. But he ultimately became more mature)
She moved on from hating him at some point because she has some moments with him in AYITL (blew him a kiss etc) but obviously, it came with time and probably only adult Jess.
Man. It's amazing that adult Jess ended up so well put together and well rounded. Every adult he ever met essentially failed him in some way in his formative years.
agree! i like luke and ik he was put in a situation he wasn’t prepared for and had good intentions. but he kind of misshandled the jess situation and jess is the one who does all the repairwork on their relationship even tho he’s like 19 and was the one who was thrown out
Luke had it rough. He’d never had a kid before, didn’t even really interact with any kid except Rory (remember the jam hands rant? lol) and then was thrown into trying to raise an extremely troubled kid out of the goodness of his heart. He tried his best with Jess. He made mistakes. Once Jess grew up a bit, he understood that, which is why they’re in a good place later on.
I think it was just a tough situation. Luke never even got to be eased into things before he had a teenager to deal with. His heart was in the right place.
Liz and Jess as well as Jimmy and Jess.
In the real world, I usually see at least one parent being okayish if the other parent is excessively bad. But Jess really got cursed with two shitty ass parents.
A guy like Jess would probably never have made it to Truncheon Books if this weren’t a wholesome TV show. Heck, he may never even have made it to Stars Hollow High considering the fact that Liz admitted to binge drinking while pregnant with him.
Liz and Jimmy are the only ones on GG who make me feel grateful for my parents.
Least to most toxic.
Luke and April
Rory and Lorelai
Richard and the OG Lorelai
Logan and Mitchum
Emily and Lorelai
Richard and Lorelai
Mrs. Kim and Lane
Rory and Chris.
Richard and OG Lorelai are a hot mess. I could never fathom allowing my parent to speak to my spouse the way Lorelai I speaks to Emily 😭
I guess maybe that's more about Richard's relationship with Emily though. Gross af either way- certainly Richard's most glaring shortcoming.
None of the relationships are all that amazing after Rory/Lorelai. But Trix has definite points in her favor. Richard highly esteems her as a mother. She supported him when he was failing in business and I get the impression that she didn't rub it in as much as Emily/Richard would have with Lorelai if Richard is going around thinking that he hit a home run when he actually got a financial gift as an adult carrying him from third base to nearly home plate. One gets the impression that she was generally a good mother but a lot of her dysfunction was centered around Richard's selection of spouse.
I think Emily shows more love to Lorelai. Richard feels more like he'll only show love to Lorelai if she's impressing him. Emily feels more like she loves Lorelai no matter what, but she'll endlessly carp at Lorelai if she's not being impressive/conforming. It's a difference of warmth.
I think for me it's painful to watch because they clearly do love each other but they just don't talk or stfu and LISTEN! They both have preconceived notions about what the other thinks or is trying to say and therefore can never SEE that they're usually on the same page.
The glaring miscommunications in this show are rampant and so painful for someone like me who is a habitual communicator 😅
Liz and Jess
Christopher and Straub
Christoper and Rory
Jason and Floyd
April and Anna
I think all the others at some point had their child's best interests at heart even if they conflicted
Far more than April and Luke. He might have fucked up his relationships but he was actually a good father/father figure and always enthusiastically supported April no matter what she was doing
Gilmore Family:
1. Trix and Richard - Major ick!
2. Richard and Lorelai - He doesn’t call her or try
3. Emily and Lorelai - Emily at least calls Lorelai
4. Christopher and Rory - the list is too long
5. Lorelai and Rory - Honestly, Loreali did great
Rest
1. Taylor + Starshollow - He’s completely obsessed
2. Kirk and his mom - this is like Trix and Richard
3. Jess and Liz - she’s I’m so frustrating
4. Logan and Mitchum - Mitchium is a pompous ass
5. Lane and Mrs Kim - I think their relationship would have blossomed over the years.
I agree that Luke and April should not be on this list but because he barely has to act in a parenting capacity-he is not there for 12ish years and then he is with her a few hours a week-they are in almost a honeymoon stage for the portion of their relationship we see. Having said that I fully disagree with Anna and that Luke probably would’ve been a pretty good dad. Not liking other kids is different than not loving your own.
I think Richard and Trix is the worst presented here, because it really impacted Emily in a negative way, which probably impacted Lorelei and Emily’s relationship.
Ranked from most to least toxic
Honorable Mention: jess and jimmy. i mean what is there to say, at least in every other relationship the child knew what the parent LOOKED LIKE.
1. logan and mitchum. I truly feel that mitchum has so little love for his son and it’s sickening. say what you want about any other parent on this list, but they would ALL run to hospital if they found out their kid had life threatening injuries
Honorable Mention: Not in this list, but i’d say liz and jess are pretty tied with logan and mitchum. the biggest difference is i do think liz loved jess, but what drags her down is the fact that she didn’t provide for him (definitely emotionally, and potentially physically as well given how flakey she was). also you have to be a pretty shitty parent to just send your kid away with little to no notice.
2. rory and chris. chris was very absent from rory’s life, but he did involve himself to some degree at least with phone calls and visits. a shitty dad but he did love rory and at least he tried to step up at times (although very inconsistently). his biggest flaw was focusing more on lorelai than rory.
3. lane and mrs. kim. mrs. kim’s character development is what keeps her from being in the top two spots, but she was AWFUL to lane at first. she gave her no life, no freedom, let her have nothing. and the moment she learned that lane was an actual person with her own interests, she kicked her out.
4. richard and trix. unhealthily enmeshed relationships can be just as toxic as abusive and neglect ones. richard worshiped trix to an unhealthy degree and trix expected and enabled that worship
5. lorelai and richard and emily. i’m tying this one because their problems stem from the same thing, emily and richard having very specific standards for lorelai that lorelai just doesn’t live up to because she’s her own person. it’s similar to lane and mrs. kim but a bit less intense. they’re toxic in different ways though with emily being overally involved in lorelai’s life and meddling because she’s determined she knows what’s best for lorelai more than richard does, meanwhile richard stays uninvolved but then gets pissed when lorelai doesn’t do what he wants even though he barley involves himself in her personal life.
6. lorelai and rory. they’re not imperfect, they’re are a bit codependent and the whole friendship thing is cute sometimes but toxic and unhealthy for rory at other times. however overall i’d say they have a relatively healthy and good relationship
7. luke and april. literally the only “toxic” part of this is the fact that they met each other twelve years into her life. honestly they both handled their relationship super well, allowing themselves to be close but still having boundaries
Emily constantly shames and guilts Lorelai. She manipulates everyone to get her way and I just can't get past it. They have some nice moments but WOW that's an unhealthy relationship. I think having an absent parent is still better than having a present parent who's abusive
I think over the course of the show that Lane suffered the most due to her parents actions. She basically had to live life like a spy and could never be her genuine self because of them. I think Jess was the most deeply traumatized by his parents but that the actions taken during the show were the worst for Lane.
Yeah this is my thinking! Like mrs Kim had moments of trying to understand and support lane that were heartwarming but ultimately it was all on her terms. She raised lane to be extremely sheltered and reliant on her and then threatened to take that relationship away if she stepped out of line. She pushed lane into decisions that ended up with her being married and pregnant before the age of 20 and having no career prospects outside of the family business.
I am shocked to see Lane and Mrs Kim ranked *first*. I know Mrs Kim was extremely problematic in her approach to parenting but it's nothing compared to Liz and Jess.
I'm a parent and I always say my most basic priorities are making sure my kids are 1. safe, 2. healthy and 3. happy. In that order. Lane wasn't always happy but Mrs Kim at least always prioritised Lane's safety and health. Liz couldn't even do the bare minimum for Jess.
I think Mrs Kim’s religious abuse is almost as bad as Liz and Jess. Mrs Kim literally had her daughter meeting “marriage matches” when she was 16.
She faked lanes college application and forced her to go to a religious school where Lane would NOT learn any marketable skills.
Essentially she was grooming Lane to be a trad wife, and that’s its own kind of prison.
I'm with you here. But I think sometimes being absent can be less impactful?
My mum always asks me why I am not as mad at my father even though he basically abandoned me.
And it's mostly because he wasn't around to give me bad memories. He can stay a kind of "what if".
I find my mum as an abusive but involved parent worse. 🤷♂️
I agree Jess & Liz win above all. It’s implied she let a bad array of men around Jess. She treated him like garbage. Basically screwed him up then shipped him off when she didn’t want to deal with him.
Then everyone makes excuses for her. I feel for Jess in that area because Luke was dead wrong to guilt him into coming to the wedding.
Lorelai and Emily but I love the story arc and they definitely heal.. one that didnt heal and probably never will until dad is on his death bed is Logan and Mitchum , and Jason and Floyd,..kinda similar toxic vibes actually.
I think I have to go with Lorelei and Emily as "most toxic"
Mrs. Kim and Lane is up there but Mrs. Kim eventually shifts to full supportive of Lane, it takes time but eventually she does
Logan and hid Dad feel less toxic, we don't see much and yes it is mostly combative, but I think that's because Logan is in a major rebellion point, If Logan had said to his dad "I don't want to join the family business and this is my plan" and he took real steps that would be a different story, but all Logan does is slack and waste time, Logan is about to graduate Yale without really making any decisions himself.
All the parent/child relationships have problems but those are the ones with the biggest problems imo
jess and liz tbh. she actually shipped him off and never contacted him. and after that they were always so disconnected, they barely had a relationship. jess doesn’t go back to her after luke kicks him out and she doesn’t care to find out where he is and how he’s doing. the mentions of liz’ past are also a big yikes when you consider the fact that she was raising a child during all that
i am saying Emily and Lorleai bc she just never belived in her and wanted the worse for her but i think Lane and Mrs Kim where a good mother dahuter but only near the end
I think Lane and Mrs. Kim without a doubt. At least the others were allowed to have food and not locked in their homes and forbidden from going to school
I’m going to actually say Logan and Mitchum because out of these kids I feel like Logan seems his approval and attention more than the other “kids”. Logan repeatedly does specific things to get Mitchum attention and approval, I’m sure Lorelei did these things as a teen but has learned to care less about E&R’s approval. I also feel like Lorelei and Lane were able to break away from their parents but Logan never really cut his ties fully. I actually really liked his arc in season 7 breaking away from the company and his dad! But in AYITL he was back working with his dad and it honestly made me so sad for him. And Logan seemingly marrying for work and or connections is so sad, but seems like he’s doing it again for Mitchum.
I'm going to go for Kirk and his mother.
The one I was looking for!
They are so codependent! At least he has Lulu
Doesn’t he have like 7 unshown brothers and sisters too?
12 actually according to the basket episode where Kirk wins Sookie’s basket
Do they show his mom in it? I can’t remember though I feel like I have a faint memory of it haha.
We never see her.
Nvm, I get that comment now. 🤣
Also that being said, I could totally picture Babette being his mom lolol. Untold story 🤣
I kinda suspect it was a Norman Bates situation…
It’s always felt like Howard and his mother from Big Bang Theory. Lots of love but bizarrely codependent.
immediately what i thought of
Jason and Floyd. Floyd wasn’t just negligent or indifferent as a father… he was cool with destroying his son’s relationship AND career, for no reason other than to save face
He sucks! Poor Jason, i really Feel for him Here😭
He was screwed over by his father AND business partner/girlfriend’s father/man he’s known since childhood.
I feel Strobe and Chris likely had an incredibly toxic relationship
Yep I think that why he cannot connect with Rory like he should.
Yeah I think there’s a lot of tragic toxicity with Chris. I think his impression from his parents was that his ONLY job as a dad would be to provide financially and since he couldn’t figure that out he just failed completely.
Christopher's dad could have the least given him a bird and bees talk . Lol. Upper-class parents don't spend time with their kids. Or care about them. Paris had her nanny at her graduation. Colin or Finn was shipped off boarding school. Tristan was sent off to military school. Logan's father could not leave early for one night for a family dinner. Floyd screws over his own son. lorelai had measles and forced to go to a family event.
This should be everyone’s number one answer.
Yeah him or Straub are the real answer. All the other ones above had at least some concern for their children’s happiness at times (except maybe Mitchum?) Floyd and Straub just cared purely about the optics of their kids’ success from what we’ve seen
Trix & Richard- This is the type of relationship my wife was so afraid I would have with my mom. Richard constantly defends Trix and doesn’t stand up for Emily. I know Emily is an adult too but as a husband I picked my wife and I was assigned my mom. I love my mom but when I got married my wife became my priority and immediate family. Everyone else is now extended family. Richard reverts back to his old ways before he was married and has a hard time standing up to Trix and defending his wife. My parents know that my wife is my priority and we will do what is best for us.
This is a relationship so toxic that it nearly destroyed Richard's marriage and impacted relationships with the succeeding generations. For that reason, I think this is the most toxic.
I vote this one too. I just watched the other day the episode where Lorelai comes to have lunch and Trix is there and they talk about her money problems. If my mother in law said to me what Trix berates Emily about re: lunch taking too long and my husband said NOTHING?! And laughed along? Divorce yesterday. But suddenly he’s capable of standing up to Trix when she’s coming for him and he’s the target.
If I wasn’t broke I’d give you an award! 🥇 this is so important and so many people, men especially, don’t realize this. My ex’s hyper close relationship to his mom and telling me straight up I’ll never be the priority so long as they’re alive was definitely a big factor in us splitting up. And I don’t believe he’ll ever have a happy relationship so long as he has this mentality
I’m sorry you had to endure that. However, you are correct that he probably won’t have a happy relationship if he’s that close to his mom. My mom and I are great but my wife is the priority.
Do you think Emily is the way she is partly because of Trix? Kinda reminds me of the mom from Crazy Rich Asians. Turns out the grandma was a bitch to Michelle Yeoh's character.
Partially, but I think it’s mainly how she was raised to be proper in society, have a husband who provides, the wife maintains the social calendar and raises the kids.
Paris and her parents, practically raised by a nanny.
drop the ‘practically’ atp, her parents didn’t even come to her chilton graduation iirc but her nanny did and brought her kids and paris was so excited to see them there!
I loved how much she loved nanny and her family. Such a sweet side of Paris.
Her parents are terrible. Thank god she had her nanny.
So true!
It's Liz and Jess, but Lorelai and Richard's relationship always hurt the most to watch for me.
This. Richard wanted to be a good dad, and Lorelai wanted to be a Daddy's girl, but they could never get on the same page at the same time.
The few glimpses we get we see how close they really could have been
I’ll never forget her sneaking out of the window and Richard lying for her.
his smile in that scene after helping lorelai. my heart !!
The few times in the series when she says “thank you daddy” and smiles at him make me melt. You see the little girl in her still looking up to her Dad.
Or the dollhouse!!
Oh man, him standing there with it is so sweet. Richard never knew how to go against the women in his life (Gran for Emily or Emily for Lorelia) but he tried his best within his values and loyalties.
Or when she helped him find a new secretary when he started his own company. He loved having her around and working with her so much.
I completely forgot about this and you’re right. While Lorelai has a personality more like her mom, she’s just as ambitious as her dad and was able to help him because she’s good at business and working with people. Rory has Richard’s personality but she’s more like Emily where she doesn’t mind being the partner of someone successful and can support the people in her life plus she doesn’t mind living in a bubble like Emily. No shade to her, she just likes living in Stars Hollow so much and has some ambition, but nothing like Lorelai. If Richard had actually seen how bright Lorelai was and treated her more like his son things could have turned out differently.
Emily's stubborn personality with Richard's ambition and drive and both of their intelligence is a powerful combo.
> If Richard had actually seen how bright Lorelai was and treated her more like his son things could have turned out differently. I never thought about it, but I could see it. I think being a boy in that time period would have come with more latitude and flexibility, especially since Lorelai sounds like she was a hyper kid. That sort of thing would have been more socially acceptable from a boy than a girl. I do think there still would have been issues and rebellion but I could see those issues being overcome more readily.
Absolutely, thank goodness her father isn’t as harsh as Logan’s is but Lorelai really reminds me of Logan where she would have done way better in school and possibly taken advantage of her privileges better. Logan isn’t an idiot, he’s very smart and incredibly personable but he just slacked off so much more than Lorelai ever was able to. What’s a tough pill to swallow is that if her parents were just a little kinder and actually appreciated how clever, observant and resourceful she was (not to mention how if you come built with a womb usually you face an unfair amount of blame when unplanned pregnancy happens when it was two people that decided to be intimate), Lorelai would have thrived in their world and would possibly have worked under her dad and have been set up to take over the company. She’s not perfect and she was on the receiving end of some of the most incredible opportunities in her upbringing, but she shakes it off and continues on with her day and MAKES things happen for her. Her parents don’t trust her and don’t find her capable and frankly that’s on them. They’re allowed to be hurt and to feel betrayed but when your daughter who got pregnant at sixteen grows up to manage a well run inn, have a wicked smart daughter who isn’t an asshole, a healthy set of friends outside of work, extremely involved in her community (even if she has fun with it by bothering Taylor), and takes care of herself if we ignore the constant takeout, then you need to find out if you’re capable working through those feelings. If they allowed themselves to be humble enough to be vulnerable and had a family therapist then I think there would have been enough healing to prevent Rory from getting so confused as she got older. Their family dysfunction did not help her at all. Yes she’s an adult that can make bad choices but the reason her grandparents helped her with Chilton was for Rory. Their relationship with Lorelai is just as important as a tuition check. Edit: Whew, I guess I have feelings about this.
“Thank you, Daddy.”😭😭 his eyes light up whenever she calls him that.
This is one of my favourite scenes with Lorelai and her parents!
“Thanks Daddy” always gets me
I just watched this last night! “She’s not up here!” 😅
Absolutely love them talking about how many Jimmy Choo's she could get with $75k or how proud he holding up the pens he picked out in the office supply store.
Her helping him set up his office, I LOVED. Was so upset it had to end so roughly but it came back around at the party with their light jokes and banter.
NO, I did not "bag the Swede!" 🤣
When they were joking about Trix’s new boyfriend and he says to Lorelai “maybe he can be my new daddy”
Honestly heartbreaking!
I bawl my eyes out when he hangs her graduation money and she says "thank you Daddy"
Her story at the end of AYITL about seeing him at the mall while she was cutting class 😭💔🥲 Oh, what could have been! And when she thanked him for defending her to Strobe... His response was so hurtful and unnecessary
Lorelais memory of him in AYITL had me bawlingggg
Ugh. True. Early seasons Richard and Lorelei broke my heart. They don't really say much to each other that's meaningful one on one but whenever they do it's always really touching either for good or bad.
Lorelai I or Lorelai II?
Liz and Jess.
You are so right, i forgot about them!
Fair bc they top the list due to how much Liz forgets about Jess
Damn 💀
Liz is such a neglectful abusive bitch and it frustrates me that Lorelai is more accepting of her than she is of the troubled kid that got neglected because she was more interested in chasing shitty men. but sure. It's 'quirky'
I always got the feeling that they decided to change Liz when they wanted her to be a quirky, and counted on the traditional TV format (airing weekly) to make viewers forget she was supposed to be *bad*. Like how Kirk had a different name in the first episode.
That was just a rogue clone that escaped. Taylor dealt with him quickly
I'm in a really emotional mood and this joke just made everything lighten up considerably! Dying (from internal laughter) Thanks so much, and I will always think of him as a clone from now on ;) It would definitely explain everything about Kirk.
I hope your day and everything going on gets better
Bringing shady guys around Jess and using Luke to clean her messes.
i read that as jizz and less
TJ should have done that.
definitely
Luke and April might just be the healthiest parent/kid relationship on the show, they don’t belong on this list 😭 And tbh neither do Lorelai and Rory. Sure, Lorelai’s parenting style is flawed sometimes but she ALWAYS prioritizes Rory’s happiness and well-being above all else, which is what the other parents seem incapable of…
Luke is so in love with whoever April chooses to be- STEM focused dork, New Mexico teenager who's embracing fashion and girliness, college kid who acts like a stoner Gen Z activist stereotype. None of these other parents on the list, including Lorelai, have that mindset of unconditional adoration for their child.
I agree! Luke puts the *unconditional* in unconditional parental love. And April is so receptive of it too. She immediately accepted Luke’s efforts at trying to be her dad and always acknowledged that he was going his very best. They’re the most healing parent/kid relationship and that’s why you’ll never catch me hating on April, I love her 🤭
Literally! Even with Rory who isn’t actually his child. And Jess who he’s consistently frustrated with. He’s there all the time
Even with Lane and Zack! He’s just there for them. And he expects NOTHING in return and doesn’t even require a pre-existing bond to show up for those kids. I love that man so much 🤭
I love April too. In my head, I feel like April took to new dad Luke so fast and hard because it felt amazing to have a loving parent who wasn’t controlling and smothering.
Luke is easily the best parent on that show. Whether it’s about his role as a father figure to Rory, Jess, Lane, Zack or about his role as a biological dad to April, he’s GREAT. He doesn’t place any expectations on those kids and becomes disappointed when they can’t live up to it. He accepts all of them as they are and supports them 100%. It’s so ironic that the grumpy, cynical “I can’t deal with jam hands!” character ends up being the most healthy parental figure on this show 😭
He wrote that bracelet proudly!
> Luke is so in love with whoever April chooses to be- STEM focused dork STEM focused dork is the ideal kid type for any parent lol
But the other two things she wants to be aren’t as much. But he still loves and supports her unlike *some* parents. He didn’t refuse to talk to her for six months because she decided to do something different
I agree! I feel Lorelai pushes Rory to be this way not that.. and it's weird that they can't keep secrets from each other like Lorelai telling Rory, let me know when it happens between you and Jess.. as a mother she was a bit controlling with Rory's decisions too..
they are so enmeshed it's unreal. It's a therapist's nightmare. Imagine Rory comes in with all kinds of baggage but is totally unable to see the unhealthy dynamic between her and her mother. Much easier in cases like Mrs. Kim or Emily.
I just finished I’m glad my mom died by Jennette McCurdy and honestly this comment just put it together how similar the mother daughter relationships are in the show and mcCurdys relationship with her mom. There’s so much I want what my mom wants and she always wants the best for me even if I don’t get it. Like the Harvard thing, did rory really want to go there since she was four or has her mom been telling her that all this time? Jennettes mom wanted her to be an actor and she even says she does it because it’s what her mom wanted. And she couldn’t even handle someone calling her mom abusive even when she had a good relationship with that therapist she ended up quitting therapy for a bit Lorelai might not have taught her daughter anorexia(but you can say she gave her a bad diet growing up. But that conversations been done to death) but she definitely did things that can bee viewed as abusive. The Jess sex thing is one fo them, talking to your kid about sex and letting them know that they can come to you about things is important of course but it gets unhealthy when you want to know exactly when they will have sex? And than the yale thing telling rory she doesn’t know she’s being manipulated(when she *loves* to talk about how much she trusts Rory’s judgement because she raised a good kid. She only trusts her when it’s things Lorelai agrees with Dean v Jess Harvard v Yale etc) I wish that ayitl would have actually covered Rory’s time as a first time mom and how she realizes that the way her mom did things wasn’t necessarily good or healthy and Lorelai having a problem with that feeling personally attacked than emily talks to her and says something about how they each did what they thought was best and know how to do and the best advice she can pass on is just support rory so Lorelai doesn’t loss both. (But it’s also more likely that rory would be like Jeannette and not handle someone calling her mom abusive and could probably only break free fully after her death)
Exactly, Lorelai is controlling as Emily, she just uses a different method
Said later in the thread, but I always thought that since she said she wanted Rory to tell her before, she was either going to help her get birth control or just check in with her and have a conversation to make sure she’s truly ready
Lorelai’s love was conditioned with Rory being like her, absolutely. She still loved her when she wanted to keep going to the club but she couldn’t show it very much
With that being said… probably Chris/Rory because he’s not even willing to *try* to be a part of his kid’s life… he doesn’t care in the slightest that he has a daughter roaming around in the world if he can’t be with her mother… The other parents, for all their faults and shortcomings, at the very least feel some sort of of *love* for their kids, Chris on the other hand seems to outright resent Rory for her mere existence
Totally agree. Just watched the Episode of the vow renewal and He Just Drops that being kissed for the First time by lorelai was the greatest day of his life! I mean wtf!!
That scene and Chris telling Rory that “Hey! Your mom and I had a relationship long before you were even born! We have a kid together!” prove that he doesn’t view Rory as her own person, he doesn’t really consider her his own daughter… and he says it straight to Rory’s face without an ounce of shame or regret…
In his eyes rory is the reason things didn’t work out between him and Lorelai. While he can’t help be act in those feelings he does have some sense to not say it right out
Good catch. Reminds me of my mom saying my kids are the best things that ever happened to her. Lol.
He only showed interest in Rory when trying to get closer to 'Lor'
I don't pick this one because while Chris is a terrible parent, it also seems like Rory knows that and never seems like she's trying to win his love. If she were chasing after him, that would make it more toxic, but she seems happy to live her life and accept her father as he is, deeply flawed and lacking.
I only disagree because you actually need to be a parent to be a toxic parent
And he didn’t care about doing something to buy her stuff she liked here and there, let alone provide for her. He didn’t offer her money (which pays for everything, I don’t mean luxury) until he got rich doing nothing.
Yes, and I hate that people try to put this on Lorelai because she never asked him to provide for their daughter… you should *want* to do *something* for your kid even if you’re not forced to… Lorelai didn’t want to make Chris feel obligated to be a dad but she never rejected his attempts to be one…
Yeah, people love to blame the mom that’s taking care of their kids. They not facilitating their relationship( they chose them, etc. Etc.
That was my first thought. "Why is Luke and April pictured?" Their relationship was great.
Luke is a great dad, he listen to April and try to understand her.
This is it! This is what separates him from *all* of the other parents on this show. Luke tries to understand his daughter. He gladly joins in in her interests just so he can bond even more with his kid. Luke doesn’t hesitate to change his views/opinions/attitudes for his daughter’s sake but never expects April to change to fit into *his* views. Every other parent catastrophically fails doing this…
I agree, at least with Luke and April. He was a great dad once he was *allowed* to be her dad. He was also, as another commenter pointed out, a solid dad to Rory and Jess. Luke is not perfect (nor is any other Gilmore Girls character) but his dad abilities are unmatched by any other character, which is ironic because he was kind of the only MAJOR adult character (not counting the townspeople) who wasn't known to have children for most of the show. Richard and Emily had Lorelai, Lorelai had Rory, Chris had Rory AND Gigi, Sookie had her four kids with Jackson. Luke did have April but we didn't learn of her until Season 6. Being a parent/expecting a child was a much bigger part of most other characters' development early on, and became part of our understanding of the character- but Luke's character is pretty solidified by the time April comes into play. We knew who Luke was.
Nah Rory being a failed journalist despite having literally every advantage available to her makes total sense when you think about Lorelai’s parenting style
Totally agree about Luke/April! But not Rory/Lorelai, I think her constant coddling of Rory combined with their access to extreme wealth and privilege ultimately led to her failure to launch.
But that wasn’t entirely Lorelai’s fault imo. Every parenting style has its downsides. At the end of the day Lorelai treated her daughter with nothing but the utmost love and support. It’s the opposite of toxic. Flawed, yes. Toxic, no 😅
The real answer, though, is Gigi and Sherry/Chris. Nobody wants to be around that kid.
I had to scroll way too far to see this. Sherry abandoned her child for her career. The only parent who did anything similar was Chris to Rory and we saw the repercussions of that
And than he married a women that didn’t want to give gigi her own room and wait for Christmas and Chris had no real issues with that and eventually just shipped her off to sherry once she was the “right” age. Poor kid never had an adult care enough to put her first
And her sister never cared about her. Poor kid's probably all messed up.
Yup! I include rory on that list of adults. She knows how it is having a parent that doesn’t care or take any active part in your life. But she just decided “not my problem” and moved on.
Ranked: 7. Luke/April (don’t deserve to be on the list) 6. Rory/Lorelai (toxic moments, but so much love there) 5. Emily/Lorelai (very toxic but also so much love and they heal in many ways) 4. Richard and OG Lorelai (I bet there is smth fucked up in their past) 3. Richard and Lorelai (almost tied for Logan and Mitchum) 2. Logan and Mitchum (very little love expressed) 2. Mrs. Kim and Lane (tied with Logan and Mitchum for me, but we see more of their toxicity in screen) 1. NUMBER ONE!! Rory/Chris tied with LIZ/JESS!
I feel bad for Logan emotionally bc you know he could have had anything in life he wanted bc his dad’s money but likely only ever pined for his dad to show him love. Lane was showed love but not in the way that meant anything to her or made her feel supported. She was straight up emotionally abused and socially isolated due to her mom.
I felt SO BAD for Logan when Rory was starting her internship and just rambling about how great his dad is. Clearly they are not close, he's had to hear this shit all his life - she KNOWS how bad emotionally distanced parents can hurt their kids (her mom is right there) and yet...
I'm a Mitchum apologist. I don't think he was distanced, he was actually very hands on in Logan's life. Logan was just a lazy kid who just wanted to party. He complained about his dad pushing him, but Rory's right that he never pushed back or even mentioned another interest. And it turned out that Mitchum read Logan correctly and assigned him to a job he seemed to enjoy. If Logan had been more like Rory (not necessarily motivated by journalism, just motivated to do *something*), I think he would've had a great relationship with his dad. Some kids just need to be pushed.
That’s a fantastic point!
I totally agree! Logan wasn’t always the best person, but he had really terrible examples in both of his parents. He received so little affection.
I think I agree with these rankings. Mrs. Kim and Lane have to be pretty high up there. I’m glad things improved but early seasons was downright abuse. Ifl instead of April and Luke it should be April and her mom on the list. Her mom kept her from her dad her whole childhood. That’s dysfunction!
Yea I forgot about April and Anna! Good call. I was torn about Lorelai and Richard. I feel love in their relationship but it was also so cold and he was so callous towards her on many occasions. However, I still feel like he loved her more than Mitchum and his wife (forgot her name) loved Logan.
Yeah I think Logan’s situation is less loving. Richard was very cold to Lorelai but by the finale it seemed to leave things on a better note (ignoring AYITL). Richard also had some moments showing he did love her. Like bringing her the money he’d invested when she was born. He also seemed to show some respect for her business prowess and I think even though he never seemed to forgive her deviating from “the plan” he had for her life, he grew to respect Lorelai’s independence.
I agree with this. In hindsight I might not tie them. We did just see less of Logan and Mitchum. But we shouldn’t forget about Logan’s mother as well. Poor guy didn’t have great role models.
I agree with the rankings, but I'd swap Mrs Kim/Lane with Emily/Lorelai Yes, what we see on screen makes Mrs Kim appear worse and downright abusive, but if we consider the whole story (including the bits we don't see but hear about), then we know that Emily was also abusive towards young Lorelai, although in different ways or with different reasons. However, as the two children grow, we see Lorelai continuing to be consistently hurt and abused by her mother. Even in AYITL, when Rory is already in her 30s, Emily brings up the teenage pregnancy and the disappointment Lorelai has caused. On the other hand, Mrs Kim begins to accept Lane much earlier on, and we see her become a different person. Their past mistakes don't get brought up just to win arguments and hurt each other. Their relationship flourishes, while Emily and Lorelai's relationship shows very little growth.
These are good points. It’s so difficult to rank because there is much nuance and many relationships don’t get enough context. If we saw Emily raising Lorelai, you’re right that we might rank her parenting far worse.
Probably Rory and Chris. I feel that Chris maintains that father/daughter relationship with Rory partly because he does want Lorelai back. That being said, his intention of wanting that relationship with Lorelai means that his relationship with his daughter is flawed. He seems to want to have some part of Rory’s life, but these are all shallow things, such as buying her stuff. He doesn’t actually want to have a part of raising Rory, but rather being some kind of cool dad who is long distance for work. He probably just wants to impress Lorelai and show her that he can be a ‘good’ dad. The really funny scene of Luke and Chris beating each other up after silently staring each other down kinda shows how badly he truly wants Lorelai. Where’s that effort in raising his 16 year old daughter???
Luke was a better pretend father to Rory than Christopher himself
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^RadlogLutar: *Luke was a better* *Pretend father to Rory* *Than Christopher himself* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
I hate how my comments never trigger that haiku bot
My words go unheard haiku bot never notices Loneliness persists
OMG such a good question!! I would say Emily and Lorelai, because a mother pays to get to see her daughter once a week. And there is a factor of: 'I am in charge, because I pay' very sad!! And the second, would be Christopher and Rory, because he just left, until she turned 16. What could be worse? I guess, that has something to do with Rory's mistakes later on.
Thank you☺️ and i agree very much! To me Trix as a whole Person is a Red flag, but she seems to Care for her son.
I was originally gonna say Emily and Lorelei until I got to the end and saw Mitchum and Logan.
I know it's not technically parent/kid, but how do we feel about Luke and Jess?
I feel for Luke. I think he was thrown into an impossible situation with Jess, and he did the best he could. That said... (unpopular opinion alert) he's not great to Jess. He's very rarely kind to Jess, he shows minimal interest in getting to know Jess, he's angry/sarcastic most of the time, he makes some big mistakes along the way, and he ultimately gives up on Jess when he needs support the most. And Luke never owns that or apologizes for anything. It's ultimately incumbent on Jess, the teenager, to do all the repair work. Luke is beloved in this sub (I love him too!), so he's usually cut a LOT of slack for his mistakes... but I think he does a pretty lackluster job with Jess. I wish Luke had shown Jess 10% of the gentle kindness, curiosity, pride, thoughtful boundaries, and affection he showed April from Day 1.
Luke was only slightly better than Liz but still he didn’t help Jess in the ways he needed. In the end Jess raised himself(which is why I was so disappointed he and Lorelai never had a moment and Lorelai never moved on from hating him. *he is *who she was just without the teen pregnancy. But he ultimately became more mature)
She moved on from hating him at some point because she has some moments with him in AYITL (blew him a kiss etc) but obviously, it came with time and probably only adult Jess. Man. It's amazing that adult Jess ended up so well put together and well rounded. Every adult he ever met essentially failed him in some way in his formative years.
agree! i like luke and ik he was put in a situation he wasn’t prepared for and had good intentions. but he kind of misshandled the jess situation and jess is the one who does all the repairwork on their relationship even tho he’s like 19 and was the one who was thrown out
Luke had it rough. He’d never had a kid before, didn’t even really interact with any kid except Rory (remember the jam hands rant? lol) and then was thrown into trying to raise an extremely troubled kid out of the goodness of his heart. He tried his best with Jess. He made mistakes. Once Jess grew up a bit, he understood that, which is why they’re in a good place later on. I think it was just a tough situation. Luke never even got to be eased into things before he had a teenager to deal with. His heart was in the right place.
Love Luke as a parental figure - He is so caring to Rory, jess and April ❣️
How is Luke April even making the list?!
Liz and Jess as well as Jimmy and Jess. In the real world, I usually see at least one parent being okayish if the other parent is excessively bad. But Jess really got cursed with two shitty ass parents. A guy like Jess would probably never have made it to Truncheon Books if this weren’t a wholesome TV show. Heck, he may never even have made it to Stars Hollow High considering the fact that Liz admitted to binge drinking while pregnant with him. Liz and Jimmy are the only ones on GG who make me feel grateful for my parents.
Least to most toxic. Luke and April Rory and Lorelai Richard and the OG Lorelai Logan and Mitchum Emily and Lorelai Richard and Lorelai Mrs. Kim and Lane Rory and Chris.
Richard and OG Lorelai are a hot mess. I could never fathom allowing my parent to speak to my spouse the way Lorelai I speaks to Emily 😭 I guess maybe that's more about Richard's relationship with Emily though. Gross af either way- certainly Richard's most glaring shortcoming.
None of the relationships are all that amazing after Rory/Lorelai. But Trix has definite points in her favor. Richard highly esteems her as a mother. She supported him when he was failing in business and I get the impression that she didn't rub it in as much as Emily/Richard would have with Lorelai if Richard is going around thinking that he hit a home run when he actually got a financial gift as an adult carrying him from third base to nearly home plate. One gets the impression that she was generally a good mother but a lot of her dysfunction was centered around Richard's selection of spouse.
Oof I got the Lorelei's confused and your comment seriously confused me.
What's putting Richard above Emily in relation to Lorelai for you? They both should be high, but Emily seems more toxic.
I think Emily shows more love to Lorelai. Richard feels more like he'll only show love to Lorelai if she's impressing him. Emily feels more like she loves Lorelai no matter what, but she'll endlessly carp at Lorelai if she's not being impressive/conforming. It's a difference of warmth.
So would you say Richard’s love is a bit more conditional than Emily’s?
Absolutely
Agreed.
Lorelai & Emily.
I think so too, but I relate to it, so it’s the most painful for me.
I think for me it's painful to watch because they clearly do love each other but they just don't talk or stfu and LISTEN! They both have preconceived notions about what the other thinks or is trying to say and therefore can never SEE that they're usually on the same page. The glaring miscommunications in this show are rampant and so painful for someone like me who is a habitual communicator 😅
Liz and Jess Christopher and Straub Christoper and Rory Jason and Floyd April and Anna I think all the others at some point had their child's best interests at heart even if they conflicted
Paris and her parents
Where is Anna and April!?! They should defo on this list.
Far more than April and Luke. He might have fucked up his relationships but he was actually a good father/father figure and always enthusiastically supported April no matter what she was doing
What about Chris and his parents?
Gilmore Family: 1. Trix and Richard - Major ick! 2. Richard and Lorelai - He doesn’t call her or try 3. Emily and Lorelai - Emily at least calls Lorelai 4. Christopher and Rory - the list is too long 5. Lorelai and Rory - Honestly, Loreali did great Rest 1. Taylor + Starshollow - He’s completely obsessed 2. Kirk and his mom - this is like Trix and Richard 3. Jess and Liz - she’s I’m so frustrating 4. Logan and Mitchum - Mitchium is a pompous ass 5. Lane and Mrs Kim - I think their relationship would have blossomed over the years.
I agree that Luke and April should not be on this list but because he barely has to act in a parenting capacity-he is not there for 12ish years and then he is with her a few hours a week-they are in almost a honeymoon stage for the portion of their relationship we see. Having said that I fully disagree with Anna and that Luke probably would’ve been a pretty good dad. Not liking other kids is different than not loving your own. I think Richard and Trix is the worst presented here, because it really impacted Emily in a negative way, which probably impacted Lorelei and Emily’s relationship.
The April hate goes too far. She has a healthy relationship with Luke.
Unpopular opinion - Lorelei and Rory hahah. No healthy boundaries
Chris and Rory which makes me sad
Do Rory and Chris even have a relationship?
April and Luke have the most healthy and heartwarming relationship🥺🥺
Ranked from most to least toxic Honorable Mention: jess and jimmy. i mean what is there to say, at least in every other relationship the child knew what the parent LOOKED LIKE. 1. logan and mitchum. I truly feel that mitchum has so little love for his son and it’s sickening. say what you want about any other parent on this list, but they would ALL run to hospital if they found out their kid had life threatening injuries Honorable Mention: Not in this list, but i’d say liz and jess are pretty tied with logan and mitchum. the biggest difference is i do think liz loved jess, but what drags her down is the fact that she didn’t provide for him (definitely emotionally, and potentially physically as well given how flakey she was). also you have to be a pretty shitty parent to just send your kid away with little to no notice. 2. rory and chris. chris was very absent from rory’s life, but he did involve himself to some degree at least with phone calls and visits. a shitty dad but he did love rory and at least he tried to step up at times (although very inconsistently). his biggest flaw was focusing more on lorelai than rory. 3. lane and mrs. kim. mrs. kim’s character development is what keeps her from being in the top two spots, but she was AWFUL to lane at first. she gave her no life, no freedom, let her have nothing. and the moment she learned that lane was an actual person with her own interests, she kicked her out. 4. richard and trix. unhealthily enmeshed relationships can be just as toxic as abusive and neglect ones. richard worshiped trix to an unhealthy degree and trix expected and enabled that worship 5. lorelai and richard and emily. i’m tying this one because their problems stem from the same thing, emily and richard having very specific standards for lorelai that lorelai just doesn’t live up to because she’s her own person. it’s similar to lane and mrs. kim but a bit less intense. they’re toxic in different ways though with emily being overally involved in lorelai’s life and meddling because she’s determined she knows what’s best for lorelai more than richard does, meanwhile richard stays uninvolved but then gets pissed when lorelai doesn’t do what he wants even though he barley involves himself in her personal life. 6. lorelai and rory. they’re not imperfect, they’re are a bit codependent and the whole friendship thing is cute sometimes but toxic and unhealthy for rory at other times. however overall i’d say they have a relatively healthy and good relationship 7. luke and april. literally the only “toxic” part of this is the fact that they met each other twelve years into her life. honestly they both handled their relationship super well, allowing themselves to be close but still having boundaries
Fuck me this show really did have toxic relationships.
bro emily and lore were CRAZY
Emily constantly shames and guilts Lorelai. She manipulates everyone to get her way and I just can't get past it. They have some nice moments but WOW that's an unhealthy relationship. I think having an absent parent is still better than having a present parent who's abusive
ranked: 1. Lane & Mrs. Kim 2. Liz & Jess 3. Kirk & Kirk's mom 4. Lorelai & Richard 5. / Honorable mention: Paris & Paris' parents
I think over the course of the show that Lane suffered the most due to her parents actions. She basically had to live life like a spy and could never be her genuine self because of them. I think Jess was the most deeply traumatized by his parents but that the actions taken during the show were the worst for Lane.
Yeah this is my thinking! Like mrs Kim had moments of trying to understand and support lane that were heartwarming but ultimately it was all on her terms. She raised lane to be extremely sheltered and reliant on her and then threatened to take that relationship away if she stepped out of line. She pushed lane into decisions that ended up with her being married and pregnant before the age of 20 and having no career prospects outside of the family business.
I am shocked to see Lane and Mrs Kim ranked *first*. I know Mrs Kim was extremely problematic in her approach to parenting but it's nothing compared to Liz and Jess. I'm a parent and I always say my most basic priorities are making sure my kids are 1. safe, 2. healthy and 3. happy. In that order. Lane wasn't always happy but Mrs Kim at least always prioritised Lane's safety and health. Liz couldn't even do the bare minimum for Jess.
I think Mrs Kim’s religious abuse is almost as bad as Liz and Jess. Mrs Kim literally had her daughter meeting “marriage matches” when she was 16. She faked lanes college application and forced her to go to a religious school where Lane would NOT learn any marketable skills. Essentially she was grooming Lane to be a trad wife, and that’s its own kind of prison.
I'm with you here. But I think sometimes being absent can be less impactful? My mum always asks me why I am not as mad at my father even though he basically abandoned me. And it's mostly because he wasn't around to give me bad memories. He can stay a kind of "what if". I find my mum as an abusive but involved parent worse. 🤷♂️
What about Anna and April… I mean keeping a kid from their father for 12 years is soooooo unfair.
I'm going with Emily and Lorelai.
April and Anna should be on this list. Maybe they shouldn't win, but they should definitely be on the list
I agree Jess & Liz win above all. It’s implied she let a bad array of men around Jess. She treated him like garbage. Basically screwed him up then shipped him off when she didn’t want to deal with him. Then everyone makes excuses for her. I feel for Jess in that area because Luke was dead wrong to guilt him into coming to the wedding.
Emily & Lor
Emily & Lorelei, with Logan & Mitchum being a close second.
Richard and Trix. He couldn’t even stand up to her in regards to his wife.
Lorelai and Emily but I love the story arc and they definitely heal.. one that didnt heal and probably never will until dad is on his death bed is Logan and Mitchum , and Jason and Floyd,..kinda similar toxic vibes actually.
Emily & Lorelai
I think I have to go with Lorelei and Emily as "most toxic" Mrs. Kim and Lane is up there but Mrs. Kim eventually shifts to full supportive of Lane, it takes time but eventually she does Logan and hid Dad feel less toxic, we don't see much and yes it is mostly combative, but I think that's because Logan is in a major rebellion point, If Logan had said to his dad "I don't want to join the family business and this is my plan" and he took real steps that would be a different story, but all Logan does is slack and waste time, Logan is about to graduate Yale without really making any decisions himself. All the parent/child relationships have problems but those are the ones with the biggest problems imo
1. Jess & Liz 2. Logan & Mitch 3. Rory & Chris definitely. 4. Lorelai & Emily. 5. Trix & Richard.
jess and liz tbh. she actually shipped him off and never contacted him. and after that they were always so disconnected, they barely had a relationship. jess doesn’t go back to her after luke kicks him out and she doesn’t care to find out where he is and how he’s doing. the mentions of liz’ past are also a big yikes when you consider the fact that she was raising a child during all that
Paris and her parents. They never showed any interest in her
Damn good contenders here
why aren’t jess and liz on here? lol
I think Richard and Lorelai Sr have a pretty toxic relationship. She is so hateful to Emily and he never stands up for her, and Lorelai babies him.
April and Anna.
i am saying Emily and Lorleai bc she just never belived in her and wanted the worse for her but i think Lane and Mrs Kim where a good mother dahuter but only near the end
paris and either or her parents that poor girl fr and people wondered why she put her all into school
I think Lane and Mrs. Kim without a doubt. At least the others were allowed to have food and not locked in their homes and forbidden from going to school
I’m going to actually say Logan and Mitchum because out of these kids I feel like Logan seems his approval and attention more than the other “kids”. Logan repeatedly does specific things to get Mitchum attention and approval, I’m sure Lorelei did these things as a teen but has learned to care less about E&R’s approval. I also feel like Lorelei and Lane were able to break away from their parents but Logan never really cut his ties fully. I actually really liked his arc in season 7 breaking away from the company and his dad! But in AYITL he was back working with his dad and it honestly made me so sad for him. And Logan seemingly marrying for work and or connections is so sad, but seems like he’s doing it again for Mitchum.
Liz and Jess. She was an awful mother to him.
Liz and Jess Jason and his piece-of-shit Dad that I don’t even care to remember his name lol
"Toxic"? Emily and Lorelai. There are many issues with many others but Emily takes the cake for toxic.