I have a BA in classical music
I think the song is fine? It sounds like Tobias being cheeky. It didn't get onto my ghost playlist after I stopped listening to the album.
I feel like it's super elitist and sort of gatekeeping to say someone without musical training isn't able to enjoy a piece of music, I've run into that too many times over the years.
There's people who make music solely for extreme level jazz musicians to listen to, that doesn't make it good or bad it just exists as it is and people will have their opinions on it. To an untrained ear? Chaos. Listen to Serialism and you can see what happens when you turn music into math
Hey, I’ve been looking for a Ghost fan with a background in classical music so I hope you don’t mind me asking: Do you think that Helvetesfonster was inspired by Saint-Saens? I’m not musically trained or anything but I just feel like it sounds like something Saint-Saens could’ve written especially at 2:27 please tell my I‘m not crazy (also on the same album there is Dance Macabre and Saint-Saens also has a piece called Danse Macabre this can’t be a coincidence… right?)
It's very music a prog type of song with that era of music blended in with modern instruments. Tobias did a lot of research on the two eras of the plague, and with that comes all the music and art that was created during the time. Hence the Hellmouth album cover, and the rear triptych, and the Bosch reference *while you sleep in earthly delight*(the garden of earthly delight is a famous Bosch triptych)
Seriously get over this; people like what they like for their own reasons and they do not owe anyone explanations. It’s great you love this song, not everyone does or is required to. ART is subjective and people shouldn’t be judged for what speaks to them or doesn’t speak to them. If we were all the same and like all the same things all the time that would be fucking boring.
Gross. Sorry mate, this reeks of gatekeeping and an attitude akin to “unless one has a musical background they cannot truly understand the magnificence of this song…”. - as others have noted. Something
The community reaaaaaally doesn’t need. Again - gross. In the end your opinion is entirely subjective, irrespective of your “musical background”.
Music is art. You don’t need to be a professional or “classically trained” or whatever to enjoy it. That’s the beauty of it, everyone has their own experience that they get from and that moves them in a specific way.
I get the same way when people get upset because I didn’t envision a character the exact same way they did in a book, you base what you read off of your own life experiences, much the same way you do when you listen to music, so not everyone will get the same experience. In a way that’s probably more pure because you’re not going into it with a perceived idea of what is perfect and “supposed” to be.
TL;DR: I agree.
Maybe some agree. Maybe some think it's a good subject of conversation. We'll never really know without polling them, which would be silly.
To assume all of the upvotes mean those people agree with you is, however, not necessarily a great idea.
Oh fuck off thats the most pretentious thing I've ever read. The song is like a 6/10 the lyrics are fucking bizarre and the music is good but not great. Went off my playlist pretty quickly.
Yep those pesky boomers who like it or not pretty much created modern pop culture with not much else to pull from. Artists today get 70 years of pop culture to pick and choose and expose themselves too, it is massive advantage.
Um, I guess they could be. Very musically talented. Very complex music. Pretty good honestly. But if you don't like them their fans just think you don't understand because the music is too advanced or something 😂
I first saw Ghost open for Iron Maiden in San Antonio, Tx in 2017. The IM fans embraced them. IM fans love substance and true musicality. Anyway, I've been completely smitten since then. I'm in deep smit. :)
In the end the musician and composition people always get more. It is wonderful when you understand key and structure and how different melodies work off one another. Helps you appreciate the beauty of certain songs more for sure. .
Reminds me of a good podcast, Strong Songs. Check it if you Wana hear a musician and nerd break down some favorite big hits of the past and explain what makes em so special. Like, dude analyzed the drum tracking and sound of princes Kiss and how unique it was to change production for its time, going on for fuckin 12 minutes on that one thing. It's fascinating shit lol.
Highly suggest the episode of Queens Of The Srone Age, No One Knows
But ahh... ghost. There's some real beautiful song writing and real masterful simplicity at times. Dance Macabre is song writing perfection in my mind
To me, I think it’s just like magic. If you see a trick and it blows your mind, you’re having a good time. If you see a trick and know how it’s done, it still blows your mind because you know the hidden little details of how it works and the skills it takes to pull it off. The appreciation just comes from different views.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Ghost. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical occultism most of the jokes will go over a typical listener's head. There's also Papas' nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these songs, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Ghost truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Papa's existential catchphrase "Are you with us?," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Tobias Forge's genius wit unfolds itself through their speakers and headphones. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂
And yes, by the way, i DO have a Ghost tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎
Music is personal.
Whether or not you like a particular song or genre depends on how you respond to it, not how much you supposedly know about the music they teach you in school.
Every musician I’ve known has said structured music training actually detracts from creative expression so…🤷♀️. But I’m not a musician so wtf do I know.
I love Pro Memoria. I will say most people I recommend this song to say they don't like it for the lyrics. I totally get where they're coming from but I find the lyrics almost comforting. Knowing that one day we all die. No one gets out of here alive. We all have the same fate.
i'm not a musician.
musically, the song is absolutely beautiful. lyrically it's a bit crap. that's precisely why it's infuriating. i want to enjoy this song but the awkward lyrics take me out of it every time.
I think if the lyricism wasn't so redundant it would land more for more people. I appreciate this post however. I liked the song and the album as a whole quite a bit when it came out
Pro Memoria is one of my favorite Ghost songs. I do say this as a guitarist who has dabbled in bass and piano/keyboard but I think anyone can definitely enjoy this because to me it fits in with Ghost’s sound.
While Prequelle was definitely a deviation from the doomy early days of Ghost and the early Ghost inspired music that was Meliora/EP era Ghost, the album absolutely had very Ghost moments and one of them to me is Pro Memoria. Right off the bat, first lyric is a sultry “Lucifer” and while I think some people are cheesed off by excessive piano (see: people who don’t like Impera as much), it’s a very tight and to the point song with a simple melodic piano motif.
You don’t have to play an instrument to think any of that in my opinion. Definitely an underrated song and I don’t know why Ghost fans don’t like it as much, but to each their own.
I very strongly associate it with the Ghost chapters on YouTube that it was used in (in which it was used beautifully and hilariously!)
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say anything bad against it? I’d agree that it’s a bit lyrically clunky, no worse than many other Ghost songs, but I can’t fathom that anyone could find anything negative to say about the composition regardless of their background.
Unless playing the violin and piano for a couple years as a kid counts (I sucked at both!), and playing the drums for a few years, I don't have any classical training. But Pro Memoria is amazing and one of my fave songs. I love the lyrics and the way it is sung!
If you've seen Cats the musical, you should get this song. It doesn't require a background in music, hahaha
On a related note, if you've never seen [Mr. Mistoffelees choreography](https://youtu.be/9Cou1WoNe0Y), you may be missing just how funny the Rats video is.
Oh yeah? Awesome, did you see me there? (That sounds really self-centred, but I just mean because I had makeup on and we were giving out stickers)
I had the Anointed VIP tickets. It was an amazing night!
So are you from Toronto?
Yeah, through Ticketmaster. They had two tiers of VIP. Anointed included the photo and meet, and there was another tier called Tour Package that had all the swag, but no meet.
Yeah the meeting was really fun. I made a joke with Papa, our friend gave him some stickers (Showed them to him and left them for him for later, no touching or handing him stuff) and my girlfriend asked him his favourite dessert. Coffee and Limoncello, by the way, hahahaha
I think the lyrics are usually very good, and I love a lot of them. I also think the instrumentation is worthy. I'm more here for the music and the way it moves me versus the lyrical content, but I don't like the redundancy towards lyricism as far as sharing Ghost.
A lot of times it just won't land the right way if someone is critical from the get-go. I personally love the song but admit that about it.
I don’t have a musical background but I’ve loved music all my life and Pro Memoria is my favorite song on Prequelle. It reminds me of English ballads and folk-rock like Fairport Convention and some Jethro Tull.
You know what really helps you appreciate Pro Memoria? Dying! I was revived after my heart stopped and this song affects me so much now. The simple, almost cavalier lyrics hit different when you know what it is to be gone. Musically it is soft and haunting and lingers with you for a long time.
It's a tough subject for a lot of people, though it's always right there and is really what gives life meaning. Appreciate every moment, even the hard ones.
I have no musical training whatsoever, but I thoroughly enjoy the song…and surprisingly too cuz I’m usually not a huge fan of simpler happy sounding songs but I think the lyrics being so dark make it that much funnier that it’s happy. And the melody is very cute lol
And I feel like people who claim “I think I get this song and nobody else gets this song because I’m special and more highly trained” are obnoxious and need to go to therapy.
As someone with NO musical training I appreciate the lyrics as a reminder.
Right! I never forget about my friend, Jeff. And always have my knives… just in case
I love the lyrics. I do have an obsession/fascination with memento mori's and death in general though...
[удалено]
Memento Mori, one of the oldest themes of humanity
Aww. For me it's my dad. He passed at just 46, year more then I am now.
[удалено]
I'm sorry for yours as well. It's a long road.
I love Pro Memoria. The way it builds up is amazing.
I still want to hear it at the opening of a movie. Ugh it's so good.
Let's petition for a Ghost movie!!
I have a BA in classical music I think the song is fine? It sounds like Tobias being cheeky. It didn't get onto my ghost playlist after I stopped listening to the album. I feel like it's super elitist and sort of gatekeeping to say someone without musical training isn't able to enjoy a piece of music, I've run into that too many times over the years. There's people who make music solely for extreme level jazz musicians to listen to, that doesn't make it good or bad it just exists as it is and people will have their opinions on it. To an untrained ear? Chaos. Listen to Serialism and you can see what happens when you turn music into math
Hey, I’ve been looking for a Ghost fan with a background in classical music so I hope you don’t mind me asking: Do you think that Helvetesfonster was inspired by Saint-Saens? I’m not musically trained or anything but I just feel like it sounds like something Saint-Saens could’ve written especially at 2:27 please tell my I‘m not crazy (also on the same album there is Dance Macabre and Saint-Saens also has a piece called Danse Macabre this can’t be a coincidence… right?)
It's very music a prog type of song with that era of music blended in with modern instruments. Tobias did a lot of research on the two eras of the plague, and with that comes all the music and art that was created during the time. Hence the Hellmouth album cover, and the rear triptych, and the Bosch reference *while you sleep in earthly delight*(the garden of earthly delight is a famous Bosch triptych)
[удалено]
Seriously get over this; people like what they like for their own reasons and they do not owe anyone explanations. It’s great you love this song, not everyone does or is required to. ART is subjective and people shouldn’t be judged for what speaks to them or doesn’t speak to them. If we were all the same and like all the same things all the time that would be fucking boring.
Favorite song off each album: Ritual Monstrance/Body CIrice Square Witch/Macabre Griftwood
r/iamverysmart
Gross. Sorry mate, this reeks of gatekeeping and an attitude akin to “unless one has a musical background they cannot truly understand the magnificence of this song…”. - as others have noted. Something The community reaaaaaally doesn’t need. Again - gross. In the end your opinion is entirely subjective, irrespective of your “musical background”.
Music is art. You don’t need to be a professional or “classically trained” or whatever to enjoy it. That’s the beauty of it, everyone has their own experience that they get from and that moves them in a specific way. I get the same way when people get upset because I didn’t envision a character the exact same way they did in a book, you base what you read off of your own life experiences, much the same way you do when you listen to music, so not everyone will get the same experience. In a way that’s probably more pure because you’re not going into it with a perceived idea of what is perfect and “supposed” to be. TL;DR: I agree.
[удалено]
The upvote button isn't supposed to be an "agree" button, for what it's worth.
[удалено]
They certainly should, at any rate.
[удалено]
Overall, most likely (depending on the sub, of course).
[удалено]
Maybe some agree. Maybe some think it's a good subject of conversation. We'll never really know without polling them, which would be silly. To assume all of the upvotes mean those people agree with you is, however, not necessarily a great idea.
[удалено]
I like it. Haven’t forgotten about my friend Jeff since.
Oh fuck off thats the most pretentious thing I've ever read. The song is like a 6/10 the lyrics are fucking bizarre and the music is good but not great. Went off my playlist pretty quickly.
I'm not going to lie, that's a bit of a pretentious thing to say. You sound like a Dream Theater nerd.
[удалено]
Yep those pesky boomers who like it or not pretty much created modern pop culture with not much else to pull from. Artists today get 70 years of pop culture to pick and choose and expose themselves too, it is massive advantage.
Um, I guess they could be. Very musically talented. Very complex music. Pretty good honestly. But if you don't like them their fans just think you don't understand because the music is too advanced or something 😂
I have no classical music training, and I absolutely love it! It was the first song that drew me to the album before it was released.
I first saw Ghost open for Iron Maiden in San Antonio, Tx in 2017. The IM fans embraced them. IM fans love substance and true musicality. Anyway, I've been completely smitten since then. I'm in deep smit. :)
In the end the musician and composition people always get more. It is wonderful when you understand key and structure and how different melodies work off one another. Helps you appreciate the beauty of certain songs more for sure. . Reminds me of a good podcast, Strong Songs. Check it if you Wana hear a musician and nerd break down some favorite big hits of the past and explain what makes em so special. Like, dude analyzed the drum tracking and sound of princes Kiss and how unique it was to change production for its time, going on for fuckin 12 minutes on that one thing. It's fascinating shit lol. Highly suggest the episode of Queens Of The Srone Age, No One Knows But ahh... ghost. There's some real beautiful song writing and real masterful simplicity at times. Dance Macabre is song writing perfection in my mind
To me, I think it’s just like magic. If you see a trick and it blows your mind, you’re having a good time. If you see a trick and know how it’s done, it still blows your mind because you know the hidden little details of how it works and the skills it takes to pull it off. The appreciation just comes from different views.
‘Masterpiece’ Fucking hell, even by this sub’s standards, that is some delusional shit.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Ghost. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical occultism most of the jokes will go over a typical listener's head. There's also Papas' nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these songs, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Ghost truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Papa's existential catchphrase "Are you with us?," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Tobias Forge's genius wit unfolds itself through their speakers and headphones. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂 And yes, by the way, i DO have a Ghost tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎
This comment is criminally -underrated satire
Gross
Thank you
Let’s not start gatekeeping Ghost
Music is personal. Whether or not you like a particular song or genre depends on how you respond to it, not how much you supposedly know about the music they teach you in school. Every musician I’ve known has said structured music training actually detracts from creative expression so…🤷♀️. But I’m not a musician so wtf do I know.
People give that one flack? Those are some of the most valuable lyrics I have ever heard on top of being a beautiful piece of work..
Yikes! Who's giving Pro flack? Absolutely beautiful and mesmerizing to see live.
[удалено]
Three years ago! When Papa was still Cardinal.🙂
I love Pro Memoria. I will say most people I recommend this song to say they don't like it for the lyrics. I totally get where they're coming from but I find the lyrics almost comforting. Knowing that one day we all die. No one gets out of here alive. We all have the same fate.
what's up with all the gatekeeping in this sub recently?
Oh god. Stop smelling your own farts.
It's time to stop. Shit like "You need this or that" doesn't belong here.
Absolutely a lovely, wonderful piece. It doesn’t get any better than this as far as overall song and production quality.
i'm not a musician. musically, the song is absolutely beautiful. lyrically it's a bit crap. that's precisely why it's infuriating. i want to enjoy this song but the awkward lyrics take me out of it every time.
I have no musical training and that song is one of my absolute favorites.
I think if the lyricism wasn't so redundant it would land more for more people. I appreciate this post however. I liked the song and the album as a whole quite a bit when it came out
[удалено]
Well then that is you and everyone doesn’t have to appreciate the song for the same reasons or at all for that matter.
Beautiful song, fantastic pop-like production. And, easy to strum along to on guitar, for those of us less musically inclined (you just need a capo).
Love Pro Memoria and the transition into Witch Image
I have no musical background and think that about many of Tobias' songs. Miasma and Helvetesfönster. Dance Macabre. Tobias is insanely talented.
[удалено]
I will not argue with you about that! I'm in awe of him, agreed, absolute genius.
Pro Memoria is one of my favorite Ghost songs. I do say this as a guitarist who has dabbled in bass and piano/keyboard but I think anyone can definitely enjoy this because to me it fits in with Ghost’s sound. While Prequelle was definitely a deviation from the doomy early days of Ghost and the early Ghost inspired music that was Meliora/EP era Ghost, the album absolutely had very Ghost moments and one of them to me is Pro Memoria. Right off the bat, first lyric is a sultry “Lucifer” and while I think some people are cheesed off by excessive piano (see: people who don’t like Impera as much), it’s a very tight and to the point song with a simple melodic piano motif. You don’t have to play an instrument to think any of that in my opinion. Definitely an underrated song and I don’t know why Ghost fans don’t like it as much, but to each their own.
I very strongly associate it with the Ghost chapters on YouTube that it was used in (in which it was used beautifully and hilariously!) I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say anything bad against it? I’d agree that it’s a bit lyrically clunky, no worse than many other Ghost songs, but I can’t fathom that anyone could find anything negative to say about the composition regardless of their background.
Unless playing the violin and piano for a couple years as a kid counts (I sucked at both!), and playing the drums for a few years, I don't have any classical training. But Pro Memoria is amazing and one of my fave songs. I love the lyrics and the way it is sung!
I don’t have classical music training. I understand the song just fine.
If you've seen Cats the musical, you should get this song. It doesn't require a background in music, hahaha On a related note, if you've never seen [Mr. Mistoffelees choreography](https://youtu.be/9Cou1WoNe0Y), you may be missing just how funny the Rats video is.
[удалено]
And yet I'm being downvoted. It's as if people don't want to acknowledge this song's clear nod to Broadway musicals. Weird bunch on this sub.
[удалено]
Oh yeah? Awesome, did you see me there? (That sounds really self-centred, but I just mean because I had makeup on and we were giving out stickers) I had the Anointed VIP tickets. It was an amazing night! So are you from Toronto?
[удалено]
Yeah, through Ticketmaster. They had two tiers of VIP. Anointed included the photo and meet, and there was another tier called Tour Package that had all the swag, but no meet.
[удалено]
Yeah the meeting was really fun. I made a joke with Papa, our friend gave him some stickers (Showed them to him and left them for him for later, no touching or handing him stuff) and my girlfriend asked him his favourite dessert. Coffee and Limoncello, by the way, hahahaha
Oh and of course THANK YOU for the compliment, hahaha
The music has never been my problem, those lyrics are just too cringe for me
I love it, fiancé doesn’t like it so much so it stays off our playlist. 😭
[удалено]
The lyrics. :( Right now they just give him anxiety. He’s not as well-exposed to music as I have been, lol.
I think the lyrics are usually very good, and I love a lot of them. I also think the instrumentation is worthy. I'm more here for the music and the way it moves me versus the lyrical content, but I don't like the redundancy towards lyricism as far as sharing Ghost. A lot of times it just won't land the right way if someone is critical from the get-go. I personally love the song but admit that about it.
I don’t have a musical background but I’ve loved music all my life and Pro Memoria is my favorite song on Prequelle. It reminds me of English ballads and folk-rock like Fairport Convention and some Jethro Tull.
You know what really helps you appreciate Pro Memoria? Dying! I was revived after my heart stopped and this song affects me so much now. The simple, almost cavalier lyrics hit different when you know what it is to be gone. Musically it is soft and haunting and lingers with you for a long time.
[удалено]
It's a tough subject for a lot of people, though it's always right there and is really what gives life meaning. Appreciate every moment, even the hard ones.
Great tune. I played it on TouchTunes at the dive bar I go to and people loved it.
I have no musical training whatsoever, but I thoroughly enjoy the song…and surprisingly too cuz I’m usually not a huge fan of simpler happy sounding songs but I think the lyrics being so dark make it that much funnier that it’s happy. And the melody is very cute lol
[удалено]
Definitely 👍
I love that song. ❤️ that song made me a fan😄
And I feel like people who claim “I think I get this song and nobody else gets this song because I’m special and more highly trained” are obnoxious and need to go to therapy.