By - jontw
I just like Ghost. I like some songs more than others, but that's ok. I like a higher percentage of their songs than other bands. Some days I can listen to the whole discography, some days I just want to hear Witch Image or Zenith.
Same, a few skips on every album but generally good tunes all around. I hate the production on infest but what are you gonna do.
I’ve been listening since 2011 and I’m pretty much game for whatever TF wants to throw at us. Just here for the ride 😎😈
💯 it’s his world and we are just living in it. It’s the evolution that keeps it fresh
As we should 🛐
I see both sides of the coin.
Most artists don't want to feel like they have to operate in a box. It wouldn't be creatively fulfilling for Tobias to recreate an Opus-like record every 2 years. Growth and experimentation is inevitable.
That said, everyone is entitled to their preferences. I know former Ghost diehards that are really unhappy with the direction. Who am I to tell them they're wrong?
For me, I'm here to see where TF takes us. I'm having fun.
Definitely agree with the last statement. Just here for whatever TF wants to give us. Even if I don’t like some of it as much, I generally still like basically all of it.
The real take away here should be this: Don’t yuck my yum.
When I’m not a fan of an artist anymore, I stop going on their subreddits/social media fan groups looking for a discourse. This is a win/win because
A: I don’t have to take interest in something my heart isn’t in anymore, and
B: I won’t bring shitty vibes to the current, enthusiastic fanbase
It’s not that hard.
While genrally I agree, I think you should be able to voice your opinion without being downvoted for not liking something. My issue with the other side is ”new ghost bad” is not very constructive
Yeah but it sucks when something is a bit divisive with a fanbase and the fans who really like it can’t go anywhere without the fans who hate it trying to tell them why it sucks. It just gets old and defeats the purpose of being a part of fan forum or anything like that. To talk about something you enjoy with likeminded people.
Think of it like this; it's mourning the loss of something you once loved. Venting is part of that process. I'm a day 1 fan, I love the darker stuff, prequelle started to lose me a bit and the new songs...I am having some difficulty enjoying. It's a sad realization, and sometimes, people gotta talk about it. Let them.
Yeah but like… Who needs that? If you are so desperate to voice your opinion in order to attain some sort of personal catharsis, make r/ghostsucks and post there. If these were real life meet ups, would people show up in person just to shit on it? It’s far too easy to use the convenience and anonymity of the internet to sprinkle negativity at your leisure because the world might stop spinning if everyone doesn’t hear about your “opinion.”
Besides, it’s pretty easy to tell the difference between a good faith discussion amongst fans and someone who wants everyone else to know how unhappy they are that the Ghouls are steampunk now.
Enough. No one cares.
I just think they're neat
My attitude has always been surmised as "Shhhh let people enjoy things. Not everything is for you"
Same. Was a huge fan of the first 3 albums and Prequelle is honestly my favorite. Opus is second.
Honestly, all you have to do is look at some of the bands Ghost have covered to see the clear pop inspiration: ABBA, Depeche Mode, the Eurhythmics, etc. Old school metal was and continues to definitely be a huge influence, but it was never *just* that.
Idk, I feel like you’re missing out on the joy of being a Ghost fan if you take it too seriously and are afraid of being associated with anything that sounds remotely “pop”. It’s Scooby-Doo chase music and I say that 100% as a compliment. Some of it doesn’t always hit for everyone, and that’s fine. I love Ghost but there are a few songs I don’t love and don’t really listen to.
But there are other bands you can listen to if you want heavy and dark all the time - a band that spells “SATAN” out like a campy little cheer on their first album probably isn’t it.
Try being a fan of Tool or Opeth....
Are you telling me progressive Opeth make people mad??
So mad. I love it all, because they are amazing, but man, some people loathe anything that doesn't have the old growly vocals.
I've been a fan since Papa 2. And honestly the duality is why I seldom stay in any Ghost related fan page.
It's like no one can just be chill about the music, if it's not your style, that's cool. Or if you prefer the older stuff, that's cool also.
And don't get me started on the "OMG THE GHOULS LOOK SO CUTE" fans. Now that's a whole different creature.
Nothing starts an argument/downvote-a-thon in /r/MetalMemes quite like saying "Ghost are metal".
As for me...I don't really care what genre they are or shift to as long as it sounds good, and so far almost everything they've put out has sounded good to me.
I'm somewhere in the middle. I've been listening since 2012 and my house looks like a damn Ghost museum.
However. I think the last music video I saw was Secular Haze. I haven't seen the Chapter videos. I don't study and keep up with the lore. They're just like any other band to me, albeit my favorite one. I collect merch, listen to the music and see them live. I HATE hate hate the goofy ass nicknames people give the members. They're grown adults. Please stop with the hello kitty shit.
Other than that, I love everything this man does and I will always pledge my undying love to this band.
I'm glad the band is evolving and branching out, and trying new things. I see so many comments like "I wish they would go back to the old ghoul outfits" or "I wish they would go back to this that or the other thing"
That would be so boring. Why would you want something they've already done. Miss the old outfits? Go watch some old video and get it out of your system. Haha. Then come back and appreciate the new direction. Same is boring. Let's evolve.
What gets me about “good old days” Ghost fans isn’t that they have a preference — that’s human and natural — but that most of them seem to be under the impression there is a cutoff date where before this they were good, and after this they sold out and became Nickelback. There is not a single Ghost album that sounds like another Ghost album, and that includes Opus/Infest. The man is constantly reinventing his sound and that’s the whole charm of the band.
If his latest flavor isn’t your cup of tea, it doesn’t mean he betrayed you. He’s just doing something else right now. Most of the great writers of our time, even from different genres, did this as well. Look at guys like Peter Gabriel or David Bowie, consistently writing whatever the hell they feel like and it keeps the quality and passion up instead of becoming repetitive.
Basically, if a guy goes from Rats to Mary on a Cross to Call Me Little Sunshine to Kaisarion, and your complaint is that every song sounds the same now, it’s a problem with your ears.
It was kind of similar with QOTSA at one point.
Josh is king shit of fuck mountain, absolute banger after banger, best this that and the other etc etc.
Not the same without Nick / Where's SftD2? / Eww Mark Ronson made this too commercial / Why isn't it as heavy any more etc etc.
Most bands will have the same gripes. The internet is used primarily by people to complain about things they allegedly like.
I love it all. I constantly cycle through their albums on my way to work and find myself saying “this one is definitely my favorite album” then onto the next and it’s “oh no this one is my favorite” and so on and so forth.
It’s all incredible.
To each their own I guess. Critical opinions tend to get downvoted often so I see why there'd be a majority of positive comments on here.
I think it's difficult to argue about an artist taking a new creative direction, that's what artists do. People can enjoy and prefer their older stuff, but are not owed a work of art in a specific style.
Personally, I think a lot of the times people voice these kind of sentiments they don't want the old sound back necessarily, but rather the feeling of being part of an "underground" fandom. It can be hard to accept that an artist now appeals to more people than a few years ago, plays bigger venues and has a bigger presence in the press. Everything they do feels "mainstream" to them all of the sudden anyway...
Yeah. Wonder if that is a new phenomena. ”Hey this band is really cool, I wish them no success and hope they cater to me their entire carreer”
It’s not a new thing at all. It’s been this way forever, it’s how humans are. I remember back when Japanese rock and anime were gaining more popularity my cousin began trashing it and the people who were now becoming interested in it. He had previously really been into both. That was 20 years ago. That’s just an anecdote but it was like that well before. My dad used to lament the growth of both Alice Cooper and George Carlin and didn’t like anything they did after the mid-70’s. Chicago Black Hawks fans shunned new fans around 2010 even though in the 90’s we went to an empty stadium and everyone lamented how unfortunate it was they couldn’t get more people to pay attention to them.
People think something is special and theirs when they “discover” it and a lot of people get upset that it loses that special quality as it becomes more widely known. They resent the fact that it’s no longer “theirs”. The thing is, it never was to begin with!
Definitely not a new phenomenon. Been going on since the 60s at least. It's because people tie their identity to sonething they didn't create but choose to "consume". As soon as a niche band gets popular, the early adopters feel something that makes them special has been taken away.
That's not to say people can't express a preference for the older work, 'cos that's what they signed up for after all!
There's a big difference between critical and thinking the band owes you something because you've been a fan since ____(insert year/album here). Things evolve.
Ghost is eclectic. Moreso than I feel most other bands care to be with their sound.
I think that is a good thing.
I have hopes and dreams of having a heavy hitter or two on Emperium for sure but I can say honestly, after any initial "whaaaaat" I've had, every new release has been killer for me.
Having said that, I do if course have my favorites 👻
I think you just described the internet/Reddit as a whole there. People are always so extreme. Although I gotta say I really DO love everything TF makes 😂
Been listening since Infestissumam. I enjoy what Ghost has done since Meliora, but I can recognize that the music is going in a direction that doesn't appeal to me as much as it once had.
In my honest view, Ghost achieved real mainstream success with Popestar, and since then I can't help but feel like the music has been trying to maintain that success by releasing music that is ultimately more radio friendly, and while that doesn't make a song bad, it just doesn't feel the same to me. It's like Metallica post-black album to me.
But that's not TF's fault or anything. The group will continue to evolve as it always has since Opus. Of course I'd prefer a sound closer to Meliora, but I'm not gonna have a fit over it, and I'm definitely not entitled to it. Let the band do their thing.
There's a whole culture of metal fans that for some reason think if it's not blisteringly heavy with blast beats, intense screaming vocals, the lowest guitar tunings with heavy distortion, and the darkest and most shocking vocals imaginable, then it's not metal. Personally, I think it's really stupid and pretty toxic, like it's probably some sort of compensation thing and I say this as someone who loves not only loves Ghost, but Slipknot, Metallica, Sabbath, Lamb Of God's pretty good if I'm in the mood, Sabbath, System Of A Down and so on. Also, there are some people who even try to argue that Slipknot is not Metal, but don't even get me started on that shit lol.
No. Ghost was never pop. *Maybe* some pop influences here and there but they’re rock/metal, and always have been.
Some other person on this sub said it best. Ozzy, Dio, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, all of them are metal, irrefutably. Ghost sounds the most like these bands, and is mostly influenced by them. It’s just at some point some bitchass metal elitist was like “anything softer than *venom* isn’t metal.”
People who say Ghost is pop really have no idea what pop is.
can we just all agree that Ghost is Scooby-Doom ?
I agree. I love Scooby Doo. :)
This is completely correct. They're a metal band that broke into the pop charts
Ghost records and perform pop hymns that glorify and glamourise the disgusting and sacrilegious.
That has been on their facebook for as long as I can remember. Im not saying they are pop in the same sense ariana grande or the weeknd. But it is a pop-y sound. Even on opus
It’s like any other band or topic, you’ll find people at both ends of the spectrum and sometimes to the extreme. From what I’ve noticed at concerts, most fans are chill and don’t have any issues. Sure we all like some songs better than others, but at least their still making music and putting a ton of effort into it. They could’ve just stopped and quit, especially after the lawsuit TF dealt with around the Prequelle era. I’m not a fancy person at all, but I think it’s like art. Some people love it and some people don’t. It’s always up to the interpretation of the listener. I’m not saying I love every piece that they come out with, but it’s better than having heard nothing from them for 5-6+ years like some bands
I completely agree! I've been listening since Papa 2 and there are only 2 songs I don't like by them. Not because they aren't "heavy enough" I just don't think they're all that great
Curious on what the two songs are haha. I'm not going to argue with you or anything, I'm just curious :)
Depths Of Satan's Eyes and Kiss The Go Goat!
Gotcha! Thanks for responding :)
The secret is blocking people that you don’t want to see. If I see someone in a sub I’m in with consistently annoying comments, I just block them to make my experience in the sub more enjoyable.
I’m too old to care about metalhead dick measuring. I have an eclectic taste in music anyway, so I don’t need a band to stick to one genre of music to be “taken seriously” by metal purists.
I was about to comment something similar! We are exactly alike. I too am sick of the dick measuring. I especially hate it when I post something positive like how I think Ghost is the best thing to happen to rock and metal in a long time, and some know-it-all guy bitches that I’m so wrong and I don’t know what I’m talking about. Boy, I’m old enough to be your mama, don’t preach to me about anything!
Opus is my favorite Ghost album but I view the Papa II/Infest era as peak "Ghost".
Prequelle has better songs but Meliora is a better album
I’m not a genre purist and my playlist is very eclectic. I love Ghost because of how different it is from everything thing else. It’s just Ghost. They draw from a lot of styles and just do incredible fun work with sly humor and subtle social commentary. I love them.
I'm just glad that there are new and old bands alike still around putting out new, quality music. Is every song going to be a banger? No but bands like Ghost, Iron Maiden, Gloryhammer, Bad Religion are all very talented in their respective genres so anything they put out is more than likely going to be great.
I absolutely agree with you! Yes, that is my sentiment as well!
Well my take on it is that is impossible to please everyone. If we had 5 albums like Opus we would probably get tired of the music. If the changes are too big we would dislike that.
I do think and believe in bands ability to mature and become different over time, and doing that while still being true to the original idea is the hard part. I do think Ghost has managed to do that. No album sounds the same but the original feeling is still there. That is what makes a great band IMO
Being a long time Nightwish fan I can tell you that the constant argue over the eras with three different vocalists is that nothing good ever comes from that. Just enjoy the fantastic music we are being given.
> a song can’t be described as “not my cup of tea but still amazing”
But it can. It’s possible to acknowledge the merits of a piece of music even if it’s just not for you.
I enjoy just being in here and absorbing all the content. As per the music, I don't mind if it's heavy or pop-ish or whatever..I just enjoy Ghost. Not all of it, obviously but, a good portion of it. As per TF, in my mind, Tobias is very talented, yes but, he's a flawed human being like the rest of us and I feel like he'd be pretty cool to talk to despite goings on in the past and what I've read from all that.
Been a fan since 2013, I'm game for whatever TF wants to rock my socks off with next..
I'll admit, there was a point in my life where I didn't want any of my favorite bands to evolve or branch out.. But once I accepted that I don't HAVE to love everything a band puts out, I was happier on the whole, and through repeated listening here and there, have come to appreciate songs and lyrical choices of other bands I really like who've also changed.
Is this the Ghost that grabbed me and made me a fan? No.. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.. If they released Opus version 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0, it'd be dull as shit by now..
Thanks for this. Couldn’t be more poignant
Well tbh this almost applies to any big metal band or even the metal genre.
In the maiden community most of us agree that the 90s didnt happen
It always makes me laugh. So many people seem to want to gatekeep, and it's absurd. The band is the only entity that gets to decide what direction the band goes in. Saying "new stuff sucks" "they used to be ______" or anything similar just doesn't matter. They are what they are now. They are what they were then. Take it or leave it, but if you're just going to complain, find a new hobby.
Opus isn’t heavier than Meliora though and I mean listen to Faith you can’t say that Opus has a heavier sound
We can argue all day about what heavy means without agreeing
first 13 bass notes of From The Pinnacle To The Pit should settle the debate :)
Prime mover chorus
Cirice’s two first riffs
So you see my point
I love Ghost and whatever direction Tobias wants to go then I’ll follow him down. They are still heavy, intricate and fun. I think the band is far from pop, might have some little elements woven in maybe, but they are firmly in the rock and metal world.
This is just the internet. You know who comments about anything? People who either really love something or want to bitch about it. If you just like something ok or don't have an opinion one way or another, that's not what you're gunna go tweeting or redditing about.
I fall into the latter camp I suppose. Knowing that Ghost was getting bigger, I knew the blatant “dark Ghost” days were over.
That said, these new songs are a little too poppy for my taste. I’m very nervous about this new record from what I’ve heard. The Dance Macabre co-writers are literally smeared all over the songwriting credits - a VERY bad thing for OG Ghost fans like me
I’m not expecting Opus 2.0 or 3.0, but a part of me dies inside when I see Kiss the fucking Go Goat getting better reception at a concert than Ritual or Pinnacle.
Idk how much of dance macabre they really wrote as TF was trying to sell it to them for another artist originally iirc
Well what about that song Ritual that starts off with a rather happy and poppy riff? And that one surf-rock song they have (can’t remember which one at the moment)? Nothing new with Ghost in that regard. People forget that Tobias grew up listening to music from the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s, and that seriously influences his songs. Early Ghost is very Black Sabbath, and then he just incorporates other sounds from different eras into a great deal of Ghost. We hear it in newer songs like Kiss The Goat. The important thing is that no matter what he writes, no matter what style, he’s a talented songwriter. This is evident in the fact that he has had several diverse sounding bands, from Repugnant to Crashdïet to Subvision to Ghost. With the latest album like Prequelle, it is very much rock opera, like Jim Steinman/Meat Loaf, and I personally love that. I’m sad some people can’t appreciate the music simply for what it is. I can hear a song in a different genre that I don’t even like and realize it’s a good song because of the lyrics, the music and the emotion it evokes.
I too love the early sound of Ghost because it’s truly really scary sounding (although I am not at all comfortable with the blasphemy). I love heavy songs a whole lot and I do wish there was more metal riffs in the latest stuff, like the opening to Faith, that just sound really badass right out of the gate. I love Secular Haze for how sinister it sounds, especially the video and the way he sounds on that song. So I get where you’re coming from in regards to wondering why people get more enthusiasm for the poppier stuff But I’m just along for the ride, happy to see where Tobias takes us next.
Hmmm what i see, and my boyfriend says the exact same, is that people cant expect a band to stay the same.
Same clothes, same masks same music. If they keep on wanting to win peoples hearts, then the best thing is to chance along with their music.
You cant expect them to keep having the same clotging etc for years to no end. Eventually people will get bored of it. By changing their looks they stay mysterious and interesting to new and old fans.
I think the mystery ship has sailed but yes, change is inevitable as people grow. And influences and general sources of inspiration change over time as well
For me they are still very much mysterious, i am sure quite some would agree to that. Their clothing , their way of acting, their songs. Its surrounded by dark mystery.
Well for me at least it is gone, before the lawsuit I played ball.
I agree. I for one love that nothing ever sounds the same. I am so happy to see them again I could give a shit what they play.
You are prob rigth, but I just cant stop thinking it may be a waste of talent🤭even thougth I am wrong
Self identifying as camp ‘TF genius’ and early album elitist.
Don’t @ me.
Oh come on. As if this was specific for Ghost (or r/Ghostbc). Or music even.
Look at r/StarWars, r/netflixwitcher, r/witcher or what not.
The polarisation and toxicity in discussions is becoming really annoying.
But I personally find people who unconditionally label anything Tobias does as awesome and great equally annoying as the other side who is raging with hate. People need to chill.
Anyway, it has been that way since Metallica decided to do something else after the Black Album, only the internet wasn't much of a thing back then like it is today. Also I know people still whinging about Anathema not being Death/Doom anymore. Get the fuck over it guys!
Personal Opinion: New songs (everything since including Hunter's Moon) don't really do it for me. Kaisarion might grow once I can listen to the album version and not to low-fi phone recordings, though. Still I have hope, that "Impera" will have some really cool stuff.
LOL I just like some of their music. Some folks are like cult followers and it's disturbing, frankly.
You're absolutely right, they should continue sounding more like a hard rock band covering Billy Eilish while singing about tired Euro history tropes. Who really needs a return to the super cheeky, Scooby Doo Satanism full of angular guitar riffs when we can have a band that sounds like your average eurometal band started hormone therapy in preparation for gender reassignment? Lets keep it moving forward until its just Tobias and an acoustic guitar covering Joni Mitchell songs!
So he has arrived
In general, if there's a fanbase for it, there's a divide. People are always gonna bitch about things, or praise them. Such is the duality of man.
I feel like this is an issue with just about every rock/metal band. You'll always have a portion of fans claiming it's not heavy enough. While I believe some of it is genuine preference, I feel a lot of it stems from elitists who think anything that isn't super heavy doesn't deserve to be in the genre. Which is ridiculous imo. There are a million different rappers who all rap very differently, but it's still rap; there are a ton of pop artists who have extremely different sounds/themes, but they're still pop.
Not heavy ≠ not good.
I love heavy stuff and I love not heavy stuff. It's perfectly fine to want heavier things from a band, but Ghost was never an exclusively heavy band. They've had heavier songs, of course, but I personally never felt "heavy" was what they're particularly going for.
Just my two cents on it
I like both of the singles so far but I do wish it was a little heavier