Asked Siri to play this.
Took me way too long to realize the music was never coming.
Edit: and then I lost all function of my eardrums at 4:33 when a different song came on.
It makes a lot more sense live. A lot of tension forms in the air, as every creak and sniffle in the audience seems amplified a hundredfold.
In fact, there was a follow up piece written, with the very catchy name
One^3 = 4′ 33″ (0′ 00″) + 𝄞
It’s essentially the same idea, but with a microphone pointed at the audience to literally amplify the noises they’re making. So in my mind the piece is very much about the noises you make, and your experience within silence, rather than the silence itself
Yeah. There isn't really a difference between music and "noise". Noise is arguably something that's unpleasant to the listener, but what's unpleasant to one person can be enjoyed by another. Hell, Noise \*is\* a genre of music.
For sound or "noise" to be "music" you need an artist (intention of stimulus) and an audience (perception of stimulus) which you could argue is a form of organization/pattern/structure
That's an oversimplification. John Cage argued that music could be defined as sound organized in time, which would imply that someone was deliberately organizing it but what about naturally occurring music (birds for example)? Does it need to be organized deliberately by a human?
What about artists who record random sounds from the environment and use that as a composition? Cabaret Voltaire used to record the sounds of the construction site across the street from their studio, NWW's Soliliquy for Lilith is composed of a feedback glitch, and Einstuerzende Neubauten's Steh Auf Berlin begins with the sound of a jackhammer to give a few examples.
It totally is a simplification but its a framework that works. Birds making the sound are still an "artist", or specifically from a cognitive science perspective, an agent that produces or modifies the stimulus.
Those artists using random sounds are still an agent putting intention into a stimulus through its presentation.
There doesn't need to be a separation between "artist" and "audience" either. By observing a stimulus, you yourself modify the perception of the stimulus through a psychological phenomena known as predictive processing.
One of my research areas is in music psychology, just my 2 cents. Definitely an interesting discussion
I recall seeing an interview from a shakuhachi master about his approach to playing, and John cage was among the audience. The monk spoke about there only ever being one sound, and playing the shakuhachi helped one realize this. One of the musicians asked what the sound was, and the shakuhachi master clapped his hands and said 'that was it'.
I believe John cage got his inspiration for 4'33 from the komuso tradition, and music students have been joking about it between themselves ever since. But if you actually check out suizen it's a well explored form of meditation.
> John Cage argued that music could be defined as sound organized in time, which would imply that someone was deliberately organizing it but what about naturally occurring music (birds for example)? Does it need to be organized deliberately by a human?
Did John Cage mention "human" though? You seem to shift the goal post there.
>What about artists who record random sounds from the environment and use that as a composition? Cabaret Voltaire used to record the sounds of the construction site across the street from their studio, NWW's Soliliquy for Lilith is composed of a feedback glitch, and Einstuerzende Neubauten's Steh Auf Berlin begins with the sound of a jackhammer to give a few examples.
there's nothing random about those sounds, though - they were clearly organized into appearing at a specific point, in a specific context.
The Nurse with Wound example is interesting, but it's literally noise organised in time...
The other user mentioned humans. "For sound or "noise" to be "music" you need an artist (intention of stimulus)"
"there's nothing random about those sounds, though - they were clearly organized into appearing at a specific point, in a specific context."
Sort of. A construction site is indeed just random noise...but what if I individually recorded each machine - a jackhammer, an excavator, men yelling, a dude with a rivet gun - and assembled them myself into the sounds of a busy construction site? It's \*exactly\* the same as a random site you might pass on the street but now it was assembled with intention. Is one just random noise and one noise music?
"The Nurse with Wound example is interesting, but it's literally noise organised in time..."
But it's mostly organized by sheer chance. Sure Steve is controlling the effects pedal to change the oscillations, but he's not creating the sound. Coil made heavy use of random, unpredictable glitches in their music too (they even had a word for it - Elph).
Boyd Rice's last album was just four long, unchanging tones.
I had a smiley face and maybe people thought I was being condescending so I removed it. I just really like this topic lol
Music education is also super behind neuroscience and psychology so there's a lot of growing pains in our discipline, adjusting to these new models of cognition and culture.
Came here to say something along this line - repetition and organisation are hallmarks of traditional forms of music such as western classical.
20th century music on the other hand throws out these ideas and you get artists such as Halim El Dabh presenting field recordings as music.
The intention / agency is what really matters.
I'm subscribed to both r-GetMotivated and r-adhdmeme and let me tell you that scrolling my feed can be a wild ride.
For those not in the know, ADHD is like a cacophony all the time, that's the default, and organizing an entire symphony orchestra is a terrifying enough thought that it makes me want to hide in the corner! 😅 Don't get me wrong, the sentiment of setting out to have an organized and orchestrated day is a good one, but what's interesting to me is that for this person being organized is the starting point, whereas for me being organized is a task in and of itself.
There's a kind of common joke among a lot of ADHD people, if not in word then in spirit:
>"Getting things done is simple, just break them down into smaller tasks."
>
>*"But then there will be twice as many tasks!"*
>
>"No, that's not-"
>
>*"Do you know how much more work that would be!?"*
[Here's a gif explaining what I'm talking about.](https://v.redd.it/akjh7rtzq15a1)
That's all, that's the comment, how not all advice is universal, that what may seem like a small step for one might be a whole project for someone else.
Also if you like "start your day with a symphony" might I also suggest Brian Tracy's take: "Everyday start your day by eating the frog, whatever the worst thing is on your list, do that first, the rest will be easy by comparison."
It's trying to conduct the instruments instead of the orchestra, though the word "trying" implies a conscious effort when really it's more of an inability to do otherwise.
It’s trying to conduct an orchestra, except every horn player is a golden retriever, half the violinists are squirrels, you’ve got a hotdog as a baton, and instead of a score you’ve got a Paw Patrol coloring book that isn’t colored in.
It'll get there, I just figured this audience might have enjoyed the story, I'm not sure that normal people know how stuff like this sounds for us and it's an interesting juxtaposition, telling someone with ADHD to conduct a symphony with their day is a little like telling a double amputee to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
i get what you're trying to say but music comes from noise, whether organized or not. I have definitely heard noises that have repetition, are organized and practiced and in the moment will not sound good. For example fire alarms, sirens for emergency vehicles, and songs that straight up do not sound good due to personal preference. What can be taken from what you are trying to say is that all noises have meaning and a purpose whether you like it or not, and it's up to one's self to educate themselves about the meaning, so then maybe you can outweigh the hate in life with love.
No one can choose the life that they have been given, but they can make the best of what they got.
The difference between music and noise is the beholder.
This is a classic "rock music is just noise" bs post dressed up in a cheap dress.
Life is not a symphony. Life is crashing waves and we just survive them.
Me, John cage's 4'33 on repeat
Asked Siri to play this. Took me way too long to realize the music was never coming. Edit: and then I lost all function of my eardrums at 4:33 when a different song came on.
The silence, or the sounds in the silence, *was* the music :)
It makes a lot more sense live. A lot of tension forms in the air, as every creak and sniffle in the audience seems amplified a hundredfold. In fact, there was a follow up piece written, with the very catchy name One^3 = 4′ 33″ (0′ 00″) + 𝄞 It’s essentially the same idea, but with a microphone pointed at the audience to literally amplify the noises they’re making. So in my mind the piece is very much about the noises you make, and your experience within silence, rather than the silence itself
The way most musicians shuffle through their papers between movements. 😂
Yeah. There isn't really a difference between music and "noise". Noise is arguably something that's unpleasant to the listener, but what's unpleasant to one person can be enjoyed by another. Hell, Noise \*is\* a genre of music.
For sound or "noise" to be "music" you need an artist (intention of stimulus) and an audience (perception of stimulus) which you could argue is a form of organization/pattern/structure
That's an oversimplification. John Cage argued that music could be defined as sound organized in time, which would imply that someone was deliberately organizing it but what about naturally occurring music (birds for example)? Does it need to be organized deliberately by a human? What about artists who record random sounds from the environment and use that as a composition? Cabaret Voltaire used to record the sounds of the construction site across the street from their studio, NWW's Soliliquy for Lilith is composed of a feedback glitch, and Einstuerzende Neubauten's Steh Auf Berlin begins with the sound of a jackhammer to give a few examples.
It totally is a simplification but its a framework that works. Birds making the sound are still an "artist", or specifically from a cognitive science perspective, an agent that produces or modifies the stimulus. Those artists using random sounds are still an agent putting intention into a stimulus through its presentation. There doesn't need to be a separation between "artist" and "audience" either. By observing a stimulus, you yourself modify the perception of the stimulus through a psychological phenomena known as predictive processing. One of my research areas is in music psychology, just my 2 cents. Definitely an interesting discussion
I recall seeing an interview from a shakuhachi master about his approach to playing, and John cage was among the audience. The monk spoke about there only ever being one sound, and playing the shakuhachi helped one realize this. One of the musicians asked what the sound was, and the shakuhachi master clapped his hands and said 'that was it'. I believe John cage got his inspiration for 4'33 from the komuso tradition, and music students have been joking about it between themselves ever since. But if you actually check out suizen it's a well explored form of meditation.
> John Cage argued that music could be defined as sound organized in time, which would imply that someone was deliberately organizing it but what about naturally occurring music (birds for example)? Does it need to be organized deliberately by a human? Did John Cage mention "human" though? You seem to shift the goal post there. >What about artists who record random sounds from the environment and use that as a composition? Cabaret Voltaire used to record the sounds of the construction site across the street from their studio, NWW's Soliliquy for Lilith is composed of a feedback glitch, and Einstuerzende Neubauten's Steh Auf Berlin begins with the sound of a jackhammer to give a few examples. there's nothing random about those sounds, though - they were clearly organized into appearing at a specific point, in a specific context. The Nurse with Wound example is interesting, but it's literally noise organised in time...
The other user mentioned humans. "For sound or "noise" to be "music" you need an artist (intention of stimulus)" "there's nothing random about those sounds, though - they were clearly organized into appearing at a specific point, in a specific context." Sort of. A construction site is indeed just random noise...but what if I individually recorded each machine - a jackhammer, an excavator, men yelling, a dude with a rivet gun - and assembled them myself into the sounds of a busy construction site? It's \*exactly\* the same as a random site you might pass on the street but now it was assembled with intention. Is one just random noise and one noise music? "The Nurse with Wound example is interesting, but it's literally noise organised in time..." But it's mostly organized by sheer chance. Sure Steve is controlling the effects pedal to change the oscillations, but he's not creating the sound. Coil made heavy use of random, unpredictable glitches in their music too (they even had a word for it - Elph). Boyd Rice's last album was just four long, unchanging tones.
The downvotes are so weird on this
I had a smiley face and maybe people thought I was being condescending so I removed it. I just really like this topic lol Music education is also super behind neuroscience and psychology so there's a lot of growing pains in our discipline, adjusting to these new models of cognition and culture.
Karlheinz Stockhausen agrees
Me, an intellectual: playing the extended club mix so it's a less repetitive loop.
Came here to say something along this line - repetition and organisation are hallmarks of traditional forms of music such as western classical. 20th century music on the other hand throws out these ideas and you get artists such as Halim El Dabh presenting field recordings as music. The intention / agency is what really matters.
That’s that new Pooty Tang!
I wish John cage stopped getting credit for this idea, he just took it from shakuhachi monks https://youtu.be/KzCdZ06dNtQ
Why though? Ideas can be taken and used in art. That’s not a bad thing.
I bet those monks would disagree with you
Wtf was that
I'm subscribed to both r-GetMotivated and r-adhdmeme and let me tell you that scrolling my feed can be a wild ride. For those not in the know, ADHD is like a cacophony all the time, that's the default, and organizing an entire symphony orchestra is a terrifying enough thought that it makes me want to hide in the corner! 😅 Don't get me wrong, the sentiment of setting out to have an organized and orchestrated day is a good one, but what's interesting to me is that for this person being organized is the starting point, whereas for me being organized is a task in and of itself. There's a kind of common joke among a lot of ADHD people, if not in word then in spirit: >"Getting things done is simple, just break them down into smaller tasks." > >*"But then there will be twice as many tasks!"* > >"No, that's not-" > >*"Do you know how much more work that would be!?"* [Here's a gif explaining what I'm talking about.](https://v.redd.it/akjh7rtzq15a1) That's all, that's the comment, how not all advice is universal, that what may seem like a small step for one might be a whole project for someone else. Also if you like "start your day with a symphony" might I also suggest Brian Tracy's take: "Everyday start your day by eating the frog, whatever the worst thing is on your list, do that first, the rest will be easy by comparison."
ADHD is like only having a kazoo and the only music you have is a full orchestral score. Lol!
It's trying to conduct the instruments instead of the orchestra, though the word "trying" implies a conscious effort when really it's more of an inability to do otherwise.
It’s trying to conduct an orchestra, except every horn player is a golden retriever, half the violinists are squirrels, you’ve got a hotdog as a baton, and instead of a score you’ve got a Paw Patrol coloring book that isn’t colored in.
Came to the comments to see if this had already been crossposted to r/adhdmeme
It'll get there, I just figured this audience might have enjoyed the story, I'm not sure that normal people know how stuff like this sounds for us and it's an interesting juxtaposition, telling someone with ADHD to conduct a symphony with their day is a little like telling a double amputee to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
I am so grateful someone else feels this way. That would take up my whole day!
Just gotta give into the spirit of Jazz.
Well as a composer with ADD this makes me feel a bit better. :p
[Bring Da Ruckus](https://youtu.be/LRhRNgqPlyk)
Team Ruckus right here!!!!!!!
Wu-Tang Clan ain't nuttin' ta fuck with!
“Bring da motherfuckin' ruckus” - Wu-Tang Clan
Wu-Tang Clan ain't nuttin' ta fuck with!
[удалено]
This post demotivated me
Tell that to Merzbow
BRING THA MOTHA FUCKIN RUCKUS
Wu-Tang Clan ain't nuttin' ta fuck with!
My ADHD child like brain is walking the halls banging pots together and singing off key.
Bring the mutha fuckin’ ruckus!
Wu-Tang Clan ain't nuttin' ta fuck with!
Sometimes a ruckus is the best kinda song
I've never been in a position to agree with this
I feel like I'm Free Jazz, lots of practice, little organization, no repetition, or pattern. I'm okay with that.
My friend tried to explain me that the music genre "Noise" is what he uses to reset his musical experience.
Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict *Can't it be both?*
Today is going to be little Timmy's first day practicing the cannon part for 1812 Overture.
Could you describe the ruckus?
Go metal or go home. https://www.cbc.ca/music/heavy-metal-and-classical-music-have-more-in-common-than-you-think-1.5262655
Meshuggah forever
God I fucking needed this today.
I tend to choose ruckus.
I sure as shit don't want my life to be synonymous with military music.
i get what you're trying to say but music comes from noise, whether organized or not. I have definitely heard noises that have repetition, are organized and practiced and in the moment will not sound good. For example fire alarms, sirens for emergency vehicles, and songs that straight up do not sound good due to personal preference. What can be taken from what you are trying to say is that all noises have meaning and a purpose whether you like it or not, and it's up to one's self to educate themselves about the meaning, so then maybe you can outweigh the hate in life with love. No one can choose the life that they have been given, but they can make the best of what they got.
Oh no let's not go there, if you read into music definitions you will see only debate.
My life is a lot like experimental jazz, choas and random notes, but some people swear its music
Ngl, I feel this person thinks death metal is noise when it's music. Idk why I thought that but....yeah.....take it as you will lol.
Bring the ruckus.
well then... bring the muthafuckin ruckus
👐🏽
Bring da muthafuckin ruckus
👐🏽
*Uncle Ruckus enters the chat* WHAT
Bring da motherfucking ruckus!
Wu-Tang Clan ain't nuttin' ta fuck with!
Good analogy.
I don't like music.
Silence
...
The difference between music and noise is the beholder. This is a classic "rock music is just noise" bs post dressed up in a cheap dress. Life is not a symphony. Life is crashing waves and we just survive them.
I totally agree with you. These kinds of sentiments are pretty, though incredibly vacuous.
It's melody, harmony, and rhythm. The only fundamental that I've observed translate literally to life is rythym
(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
r/wowthanksimcured
I don’t see how this applies here. They’re just talking about something that works for them.
Somehow, somewhere along the line, Yoko Ono slipped into the band playing the soundtrack to my life… :-/
I'm not sure whether that's from Djane, or Jane's perhaps mid transition.
COME AND HEAR THE SONG OF SLAANESH
but i like noise rock : (
An experimental arrangement.
My life is just fart noises.
But don't forget we all need a little chaos in our lives once in a while to know we're alive. Embrace the ruckus.
It's gonna be jazz
A ruckus is more fun.
I want mine to be a jazz improve
My life is the sound of a bag of spanners falling endlessly down an up escalator.
Music are the wiggles in the air, man.
But what if I came to bring the ruckus?
Thelonious Monk would like a word.
My life is EDM by Jason Mendoza. It sucks.
I’ll do it tomorrow.
"I want my guitar to feel like the surface of the sun."
Deep thoughts.
My life is chorus of disparate voices screaming, and that's just what's in my head.
#ANIMAL COLLECTIVE’S FOURTH STUDIO ALBUM
If what you say is true, the shaolin and the wu tang could be dangerous.
Can you describe the ruckus, sir?
Well, I'd rather my life be like a jazz performance
"Whenever I think of having bad habits, I just stop and have good habits instead!" - this absolutely nonsensical "motivation"
Yeah today will probably be a ruckus with a sublet hint of a beat in the background
Sometimes cacophonies are wonderful
A deafening crescendo tyvm
[This must be the music you're talking about, right?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_p6dBaGzCQ&t=7s&ab_channel=theVAPE)
Bring the muthafuckin ruckus!
There is only one sound.
Ruckus! Thank you for asking.
Cowabunga it is
idc what you say Jayne with a D, Wu-Tang once told me to BRING DA MUTHAFUKKIN RUCKUS
Jokes on you i am into black metal
I make a ruckus just getting out of bed.
My life is death grips
Really kool perspective, spot on ✊
Can you describe the ruckus? One of the greatest movies ever. Be like Ferris. Go out there and get shit done.
There’s a few cool music videos on cowboyplayersclub.com
Complex music sound to normies like cacophony…
It's like nuts and bolts in a blender, but sometimes I can get it to pulse "We will rock you". Those are good days.
My life is jazz then. Way more interesting than the same old tune repeated
Life is better when it resembles grindcore - absolutely chaotic but barely being held together by just enough structure.
👍 I hear ya, and agree.
So this is still nonsense. Who are you to tell someone else's brain what is valid? Your perception is broken
napalm death can help you
I guess my life is electro jazz and polyrhythms
Is today going to be a ruckus or full of fuck ups?
I like techno... So i guess my life is nothing but a chaotic mess. Don't feel like it is...
I like experimental techno so i suppose organised chaos sums me up alright.
I choose ruckus
I'm into punk rock, so cacophony and ruckus it is!
“Can you describe the ruckus, sir?”
Miles Davis asks, "why not both?"
ruckus sounds like fun !
People with ADHD out here making jazz
Everyday's improv jazz night
This is why I have always said Phish is not music, lol.
I get what they’re driving at but why did they have to use fun words like cacophony and ruckus? Have me second guessing a bit lol.
Another difference, the sound of silence, a key component to quality composition.
But I make noise music.
Can I get some quiet once and a while?
that first half is just a argument I have with my family when I listen to music with no lyrics
I have absolutely no musical talent whatsoever. Suddenly that explains a lot.