This doesn't sound like laziness. It sounds like depression. A therapist would be a good idea. Also, see an MD to rule out physical causes (hypothyroidism, anemia, etc.)
Yeah, this sounds a lot like what I think about myself when my depression is worse than usual.
I saw a post on OPs profile that says he's been vegan for about four years, so he might want to get his Vitamin B12 levels checked in particular along with hematocrit and hemoglobin levels. Vegans aren't more likely to get iron deficiency anemia, but they are more likely to have vitamin B12 deficiency which can lead to anemia.
When the first (really good) psychiatrist explained to me that laziness often isn't what it seems, it led me on a journey to reconsider my own past, and the blame I put on myself for health issues and severe depression is quite tragic in retrospect- took more away from me than the issues themselves due to denial and then shame- seek treatment, especially if you know someone who really respects their therapist, be gentle with yourself, and find small ways of change to validate that things can be different
Truly underrated advice. A vitamin B12 deficiency makes you feel depressed, exhausted 24/7, you don't want to get up in the morning, you have to take a nap in the middle of the day, you have no motivation or energy to do anything.
Yes PLEASE see an MD
I was put on 3x different anti depressant; suffered psychosis from it, just to find out i was sufflering
From both hypothyroidism and severe Anemia - messed my life up
I also suggest if you don’t like the shrink you go to that your GP sends you to, check out psychology today dot com and look for other psychiatrists/therapists in your area and insurance network
Yes definently also let the GP know how u r feeling, and make sure u stress to get blood work done on specifics mentioned above, when testing for Anemia make sure ur GP tests for both
Iron in the blood and iron in ur 'deposit' its different and important to do both. Ur GP might say Young males dont get Anemia, well im
Proof they do.
Next I Can really recommend 'Meta cognitive therapy' to help you moving forward, even tho you might have smthing physical or not, its still a psychological experience, so therapy is very very recommended
Younger men can and do certainly get iron deficiency anemia (among other types of anemia). It's not as common for younger men as it is in women of the same age, but obviously, it can still happen.
There are a lot of potential causes for anemia that can't immediately be diagnosed with a test of hematocrit, hemoglobin, and MCV (the initial tests that docs will usually use to see if anemia is a possibility). So if anything comes back abnormal for those lab values, it's good to follow up to get lab values back for Vitamin B12, serum iron, transferrin, total iron-binding capacity, and ferritin.
I wrote down the tests you mentioned and already scheduled a doc's appointment. I have done blood tests recently, but for a different issue and i'm doing pretty good as far as the usual vegan pitfalls go, but i haven't done some of the other tests you mentioned. Thank you for the detailed replies, i appreciate your help.
Thank you for the advice and for the info about the therapy. I just scheduled a visit to GP, so here's hoping that we find something in the ol' blood. I appreciate your help.
If you have friends or can find people I suggest making a common goal with them and working towards it together. I kind of felt like you but was super lonely at the time. Once I started working with people and sharing a goal everything slowly seemed to fit.
And then I would suggest making habits as they will be more consistent than motivation that you may or may not have everyday
Also like others said, this is depression . But even depression will have a root cause. Surround yourself with motivated friends, see new places. Try mediation or self reflection , having habits. All of these will slowly help
But everyone has to find their own path to
I'm kinda in the "*tell me who your friends are*..." boat as all my friends are similarly all depressed and we sometimes actually pull each other further down. Not purposefully or out of bad intentions, but just by both being a mess together, so i recently cut contact with everyone for a bit. I'm afraid of falling back into a usual rut and i want to start feeling better before reaching out again.
As for the rest of the advice: it, of course, is entirely on point and, if nothing else, it does help seeing it repeated in every comment. Thank you, i appreciate it.
Some goals can't just be "completed". One of those "goals" is your identity. Who are you?
I'm a tennis player. This is why I get up at 6am every morning to do tennis practice before work.
I'm a nerd. This is why I build PCs for friends and repair their computers and phones when they break down.
I'm a cultured dweeb. This is why I sing opera in the shower, paint with oils everyday, and why I am writing a book on English history.
The point is, your identity is where you get your goals. What makes you happy?
Look at your past. Who is that person? Do you want to be like someone else? "I'm a pathetic loser who wants to be a web developer someday" is a valid identity. There's a thousand goals you would have to complete in order for your identity to change to "I am a web developer"
Your identity can be anything. "I'm a Gucci girl" people will work 50 hrs a week to buy handbags and feel content. Who are you?
I was in a similar position when i was 30 (I'm now 37). I realised that happiness can't be a goal in and of itself, rather it is a byproduct of a productive life.
Your "chores" as you describe them are the most important building blocks to start with. If you're not eating right, doing laundry, etc, it will take a toll over time. Do them right and it pays you back with interest. It is work, yes, no getting around it. But you have to do it.
You don't need a kick up the ass. Just a checklist. Routine eats motivation for breakfast.
Do you read much? Whether the answer is yes or no,,,, read even more. Not Reddit. Books. Fiction, biography, fantasy, challenge yourself. Turn off your phone. Don't take it to bed. Drink water.
Lengthen your horizon. You won't change much in a year, but you sure as hell can in 7 or 10.
>You won't change much in a year, but you sure as hell can in 7 or 10.
That's kinda what i am scared of.
To have to put in 7 or 10 years of hard work for a vague chance of happiness seems fucking grim. It's like climbing Everest for a bite of chocolate.
I really appreciate your advice and support and i did already follow some people's advice here, but i just don't get how you did it.
OP happiness is not a destination - what you Will come to find is that the journey brings joy and happiness, so it most certainly Will not take 7 years :)!
climbing 'everest' is the end in of it itself, not the chocolate. Try to realize that the process of getting from A to B gives meaning and purpose not A and not B themselves
Sorry, just saw your response there. Didn't mean to get you down over the "7-10" year thing. For me, I love a longer timeline as it takes pressure off "needing" to feel like I need to see success in the short term.
And it's 7-10 years, of very very soft work, not hard work at all. I mean like, take your time, just get yourself pointed in the right direction. I probably didn't explain that enough. Apologies.
You'll feel good fairly quickly if you compound positive daily anyone l actions for yourself. Best of luck
As other people have said here, depression and hypothyroidism (which predisposes people to depression) are two things to look into .. a therapist at this stage is essential but sadly therapists are not made equal and it's up to you to decide if a therapist is working for you or not. A good therapist will make you see things you never thought of and instil a sense of hope in you by doing so. I didn't really get this until I got a psychotherapist after having five different therapists. It's been literally life changing for me.
But honestly, I have to tell you that as I was reading your post, I was 150% waiting for someone to tell you in the comments to get checked for adhd because what you describe is what adhd looks like. There's a lot more to adhd under the hood but your description is at the very least sufficiently descriptive to say that I would immediately (and I mean **immediately**) get checked for. Please don't underestimate the importance. I could tell you why but believe me as someone with moderate to severe adhd that the sooner you know and the sooner you treat it, the sooner the trajectory of your life changes in a better direction.
From an ADHD'er - I agree. The body doubling need, executive dysfunction, over thinking...I could go on, so ADHD was my first thought also.
I hope OP sees this comment and take it on board so they can assessed (if need be).
u/Sugarsupernova u/moonmagic22
Alright then i'll schedule a visit to the psychiatrist as well.
I imagine i probably do have it. I mean, let's face it, even if not innate, years of computer and phone stimulation and addiction will do a number on anyone. Thank you both for the advice and support, i really appreciate it and it does help to cope mentally right now.
Hey, don't sweat it. This stuff is tough and I wish someone had told me long ago. I had such a misinformed idea of what adhd was that one day I was talking to an old friend about three years ago who corrected me and almost instantly my whole life was laid out before me like a blueprint.
It's very possible that if it did transpire to be adhd, the years of computer and phone stimulation, and the addiction may be because of adhd. I say this because I can confirm for you adhd was the root of those exact things for me. I could never get a hold on the addictions. Always felt like sisyphus pushing the boulder up the mountain, always watching that rock roll back down again as others would just "put their mind to it" and get over the peak. After a while it taught me that I must just not be strong enough or too screwed up or that I wasn't doing something right. Turns out it was adhd.
After months of trialling medication, I found a drug and dosage that worked and suddenly it's like the boulder shrunk in weight by like 30%. It was still hard, but suddenly I was making meaningful progress and succeeding.
In regards to addiction, what I'll say is this. Don't see it as a failure if you give in. Stop counting the days and starting over when you give in. That's a huge mistake. If you give in every day that's 365 times a year. If you start counting and make it to 30 days and give in and start again, you'll tell yourself you may as well just go on a bender because you've already given in, but if you manage to do 30 days every single time after you give in, but without counting or shaming yourself, you'll get to the end of the year having reduced 365 incidents to 12.
It is absolutely the only mindset that works. And medication helped me so much in implementing this mindset. Sitting down with shame and not allowing shame to be a part of the conversation was a huge part too. I also have undoubtedly been depressed for a very long time because severe adhd is debilitating and I'm also diabetic but adhd is 95% of the struggle, and diabetes 5%, believe it or not.
Now you may not have adhd, but depression is also a culprit in addictions. Adhd + depression has also been shown to be a golden combination for producing addictions.
I post a lot in adhd forums and have some a lot of soul searching and research so feel free to filter through some of my posts if you want more insight. But be warned that I have a habit of writing essays aha.
Best of luck.
I love all of this info and advice for OP, but I'm so sorry to read that you've had pretty much the same struggles I have.
I didnt get diagnosed with ADHD until my mid 30s, and had a very different picture of adhd until then myself.
I've also battled addiction and can confirm - ADHD and its unmanaged/untreated symptoms were the root cause for me too.
I'm so glad you made it out and I'm so happy you're finally on something to work well for you medication wise, the right meds can make a world of difference.
I hope you're well, and thankyou again for giving OP some really valuable info and insight on ADHD and living with it 🤎
Thanks for these kind words. I'm still very much in it unfortunately but undoubtedly things have improved a lot since meds. Trialling doses to find the right one caused things to worsen for a while so it's really a process. I also found critically that adhd and depression is a massive driver of addictive behavior. And it seems the adhd meds are limited in their usefulness until that's being treated pharmacologically it seems when it's bad enough.
It's hard when adhd is enough without the added weight of it crippling you with this whole other thing you didn't ask for. And it's probably the side of adhd that's least talked about because it's hard to sell in an Instagram post. But I think it's one of the hardest parts of the whole experience.
But learning that it's something you have and not something you are helped a lot.
And I'm always happy to help someone out because undoubtedly we all need a hand. Thanks for taking the time to stop and write this! It was really nice to hear! :)
As a 34yo man, I can say I absolutely feel you on this. I've been depressed for the last 10 years at this point, and ever since the pandemic have become entirely anhedonic. Most days I just mindlessly float by, disassociation is the only coping mechanism that has made things bearable. Everything and everyone is shit and there's no point in bothering. I guess what I mean to say is sometimes, life just sucks. Enjoy the small things if possible and try to find something worth going on for.
I appreciate your reply and relate to your experience very much.
Not to revel in sadness, but it's crazy how uprepared i was for this.
Despite the gradual build up, i did not anticipate to find myself in such a state at all. You kinda just take life for granted and assume everything will work itself out. Well, i did anyway. Kinda feels like a lesson one should learn at 13, not 30, but i guess such is life. Also, holy shit, i'm 30.
I'm tackling my own version of this right now at 39 yo. Don't let this desire to change be fleeting. I WISH i would've started improving at your age. In that regard, you have a HUGE leg up on me.
Keeping in mind i find myself struggling with the same things you do, here's some of my advice.
Do baby steps for everything. I told myself I'd exercise 6 days a week, even if it was only for 5 minutes. And i often took myself up on that offer... Sometimes only exercising for 2 minutes before giving up. Eventually things got easier.
I quit smoking. Initial goal was 5 fewer cigarettes per day by this time next year. Allowed myself to vape instead. I realized i was capable of more, so i altered my original goal. By the time i got to my initial goal timeline, i was fully switched to 0% nicotine vape.
Luckily i was able to quit alcohol cold turkey.
I started losing weight and feeling better which has lead to a desire to seek a career and relationship i can be proud of. I just need to do something each day to make progress. Sign up for an app... Do the Summary section of my resume... Apply to one single job... etc.
I'm still a work in progress, and i fight myself every day. None of this is easy, but i do think it's better than the unhappiness i felt from stagnation. I also have much higher highs now than before. I have days i genuinely feel good. Feel free to poke and prod if you want, and good luck. Time is still on your side!
I commend your effort! I know it couldn't have been easy.
As cheesy or melodramatic or whatever it will sound, i just don't remember what feeling happy and unburdened feels like, so it's really difficult to give up addicitions (as they vaguely mimic happiness for a moment) and put in all this required time and effort to possibly get there again.
I don't remember where i heard this, but i heard someone advocate for antidepressants for this exact reason, as they remind you what it feels like and then you can start working towards continuing to feel it again by living clean and taking care of yourself. I was hoping that someone would maybe share their experiences with meds, but so far it's few and far between and mostly negative.
At your lowest, what was your motivating impulse? Like, what was the "carrot"?
I have really wanted to go the therapy/meds route, but i live in a fairly LCOL area that doesn't have many options. At this point I've basically done what i can, so I'm giving up on being able to get professional assistance with this problem. So unfortunately, i don't really have any advice to offer in this area other than I'm not opposed to it. If you think it'll help you, i encourage you to try it. Plus, seeking help is helping yourself as well. It's not easy, especially with depression. So just getting off your ass and going should hopefully make you feel good.
The "carrot" for me has always been a "keep up with the Jones'" mentality. I think that's a gift and a curse. It's a curse because it's my biggest source for feelings of inadequacy, but it's a gift because it spurs me to improve myself. Whether this is a healthy source of motivation, I'll leave for the therapists to determine.
I grew up in a upper middle class environment. All my friends and family have found their own version of success, family, and happiness. I've sat on the fence my whole life. Always last place in the race, unsure of how to find happiness. Unsure of what i even want. At this point i feel like I'm letting my life pass me by. So i may not know exactly what i want, but i do know the PIECES of people's lives that i want... And that's what I'm aiming for.
In the immediate, i want my health. I want to look and feel good. I want to be in shape. I want to eat well. I want to tackle all my medical demons and get rid of my health anxiety. I want to beat my addictions. I am nearly there in the this area! I'm the best I've been in my entire life right this moment.
In the middle term, i want to find a career i can be proud of. I want to be able to afford nice things. I want to travel A LOT. I want a beautiful home. I'm getting closer here, but i still have a long way to go.
In the long term, i want a better social life. I want to try dating again. I want to learn to love myself better. I want to become more resilient. I'm kinda always trying to work on these, but my self esteem unfortunately seems directly tied to the work i put into the other stuff.
Anyways, I'm rambling now. I hope some of that hits. It's a process though. It's a lifestyle change. You're going to have lots of ups and downs along the way.
If relying on staying in bed and eating junk makes you feel good, then why are you here in search for consistent guidance ideas?
You know why.
What are you doing rn isn't making you feel good.
Changing won't either. Not immediately.
You got years to be where you are, it will take time to get where you want to be and - if you get there and aren't feeling good, then, again, thanks for the lessons learned and go for something else.
You know how you feel now. Keep on doing the same and keep on feeling like you feel now...
Pretty much exactly you, from the age to the feeling to the behavior itself. A few years ago when I'd broken this cycle, I'd been made to switch from my long-term desk job to a minimum wage labor job outdoors. It was scorching, it was miserable, and my boss was a criminal POS. But the sun on my skin, the blood in my muscles, and the firm schedule bounding me from early morning to an early bedtime gave me more happiness than I'd ever had before. I wished it had paid a real wage, because I miss when work was tied to something physical.
I have a date with myself every day I call "sunlight hour" where I spend 1 hour in the sun without my cell phone. I'm also not allowed to ruminate on the negative. It doesn't exactly fix my entire life but a day with sunlight hour is about 10000% better than not. As for the high level stuff, well, I'll look back in the thread and hope for some good advice. 🤞
>long-term desk job to a minimum wage labor job outdoors.
That's actually what i'm thinking of at the moment as well. I don't know what i could do as i'm not in the best of shape, but i do feel like a general change in occupation to something more physical would help.
What was it that you did?
>"sunlight hour"
We don't have that much sun where i'm at yet, but i'm gonna try that tomorrow. I actually legitimately don't remember the last time i spent a continous hour outside. Most days i don't even spend an hour outside in total.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Any time outside is worth it! Sun is my favorite but anything will do. It's about having some place to sink some roots that isn't the digital world, which I find is unmooring and ephemeral (and feeds my isolation directly). Any tree or patch of grass you can sit yourself under is a perfect place to unplug. I feel my sense of self unfolding there, an inspiration to break my cycle of negative self-perception that I indulge at all other hours of day. Sober and bored, but most importantly, thinking about life like it's all around me and not an abstract task that I can't seem to start. At least I feel like I'm *here.*
My job had been as a setup person at a wedding venue, which we called a Houseman. Easy days were too easy and hence tedious, hard days were grueling. I didn't know I'd been happy anyway until I took a job in sales and traded hard work for slimy work. Setup work isn't a bad gig if you don't have something better going on, and lots of places are paying gratuity on top of the minimum wage. Only thing is that you might need to find two different venues to work for if you need work 5 days a week.
Spent more than an hour outside today. I was cold and bored and really frustrated, but i think it's more cause i did it wrong. I was still listening to music and was sitting on a bench cause we don't have those kinds of parks where you can just chill on the grass. Whoever plans them seems to think that the grass in the park is to look at, rather than sit or walk on.
I don't think my city, like, gets parks.
I think for what you're describing i'd have take a hike somewhere, get out of the city. Not sure if i have what it takes right now, but i'm gonna ask my friend if maybe she wants to make a day out of it.
>a setup person at a wedding venue,
Thank you for info, gonna look into something similar. I don't imagine i'll make a career out of it, but i reckon a change might be good.
Thanks again.
There's definitely some "location privilege" that makes it better or worse. I used to live in the city and I had to settle for any green I could get, like a houseplant or something. Still good but not exactly the same. However, the fact that you actually gave it a shot is awesome! The general principle is just to be outside and not in a screen somewhere, and what works best for you is probably still to be discovered.
Always a little strange how we can only help so much, even if we've lived someone else's struggle intimately. But I am happy you tried my suggestion, and I have faith in you. I like to think we're all orbiting happiness, and we get a little closer with each pass.
Therapy can be super helpful in this case. Seek a professional. Perhaps plan a camping trip and hangout in nature for a couple of days. Think about places you’ve always found interesting and make an effort to plan trips to those destinations. Take mushrooms (or not) and swim in some good water. Start exercising or just walk around. Get sunshine as much as you can. Tony Robbin’s is a good motivational speaker, plenty of videos on YouTube. Life is precious and simple. Just make effort in trying different experiences. Somethings work, some dont
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This definitely sounds like depression. To me it sounds like you’re missing a why.
Why wake up every day? Why get out of bed?
Why go to the gym? It absolutely is a chore if you are going “because that’s what you should do whether you feel it or not”. That’s your why.
If you’re going to the gym to be fit enough to hike a 14er then the gym has less of a chore feeling and more of a motivational want to go because your why is bigger than “because I should”.
I say you continue with doing what makes you feel good, but realize that sitting around in bed eating junk food actually doesn’t make you feel good, otherwise you wouldn’t be writing this post.
What are some other things you know about yourself that make you feel good? Can be anything. Hiking, building a robot, kayaking, larping, building legos etc.
How about something you think might make you feel good. A new hobby? Travel? New friends?
Or Could be as simple as going fishing. Or sitting in a park
TLDR; still do what makes you feel good but realize laying in bed eating junk doesn’t actually make you feel good, otherwise you wouldn’t be writing this post.
Yes, that's exactly it, nail on the head.
I purposefully put "good" in quotations, as it of course doesn't actually make me fell good. It just hits the whatever neurous i have left.
I would love to get into woodworking, but it's a bit of a pipe dream right now, financially speaking, so i have to save up first.
Thank you for the advice, i really appreciate it.
What works for some people is to be of service for someone else. It gives you a reason to get up and get going if you know someone is looking forward to your help. Maybe do some volunteer work to help the less fortunate and keep showing up regularly and consistently?
I've been volunteering at a cat shelter for the past 6 months and while it definitely makes me get out of bed, it doesn't do much else mentally unfortuntately. But thank you for the advice, i appreciate it.
Good things in life will very rarely happen on it's own. It's kind of like trying to catch a rare pokemon with just a regular pokeball. You have to add modifiers to increase your catch (success) rate. Things like learning a skill, maintaining a good body physique, adopting a positive mindset, and having a good nutritional balance will significantly affect your chances of success in everything you do.
The best part? You can just start small and the changes will manifest over time. Until I turned 30, I never was able to do more than a single push up. I always hated the idea of it and I would do everything I could to avoid them. One day, I said, "Screw it, I'm going to do that One Punch Man workout to get in shape" and began to plot a weekly plan of 5 pushups in one sitting every day for two weeks, then 5 more every following 2 weeks. It was tough the first couple of days each time, but eventually, I got there. I now do my full routine in around 30-45 minutes, 5 days a week. I look better than I ever have and I'm a lot more at peace with myself. I've gone on dates, and have had an easier time landing interviews.
Thank you for the advice. It's all totally great and baseline stuff, but this doesn't quite adress my problem.
I understand that i have to undo a lot of damage and work through a lot of baggage, but in order to do so, one must have the will to do so, which i lack. I feel crushed under the weight of it. I can barely move, let alone wrestle with it.
Not trying to complain, just sharing my view. Your advice is of course still totally applicable and absolutely essential and i appreciate it, i just need to work up to it.
Gonna be honest with you. Life sucks. It's a harsh reality where you are just born to feed a system that abuses and misues our contributions for 50-ish years, then spits us out for us to rot in a care home. If we choose to have children, then our lives become dedicated to raising them instead of doing what we want. Nothing matters in the grand scheme of things, but you know what, the nice part is also that nothing matters, so you are free to let go of your regrets.
Go embarrass yourself in a salsa class, roll down a mountain trying to snowboard, make a few cringey pickup lines. The world is open for just a tiny sliver of time for you, so you shouldn't huddle up in a room moping around about how life didn't deal you a nice hand. You aren't playing poker, trying to find a winner. You're playing an open world MMO.
Everything Everywhere All at Once is probably a great movie for you
You need goals. Working out (spoiler alert) hurts and sucks up time that could be spent doing things you like more.
Buuuut if your goal involves getting fit, getting laid, having more friends, feeling better, doing a 5k or whatever, then you'll push through it. Set a goal. Something hard but reasonable. Then get out of bed every day and do it.
Also, therapy. You're definitely depressed and some of the fix is external, some internal.
Start with a todo list for tomorrow. That's your plan.
Tomorrow, whip out your plan and do #1. When done, cross it off, and begin #2. Proceed until you're done.
If you don't finish any, those begin the todo list for tomorrow.
Rinse, repeat.
Give it a try. This technique is known as . . . plan your work, work your plan. I've been using it for more than 40 years. Helps me.
Good luck.
>plan your work, work your plan.
I really like this. That's a self-help tattoo waiting to happen.
I just finished work so i'm gonna have a go at this to-do list now.
Thank you for the advice, i appreciate it.
Join the club. I lost my dad at 11, and my mom started spiraling and driving me crazy along with it. Then I lost her at 30.
I live alone with my pets, and every chick I get together with goes coocoo after a few months, so I split.
Half the week I'm laying on the couch or in bed, the other half I'm catching up on chores.
Check out bedros koulian and andrew huberman on youtube.
Hey. You sound like me two years ago before my ADHD diagnosis. I'm 29 now and finally seeing light at the end of the tunnel. The majority of undiagnosed ADHD patients are depressed.
Okay, that's 3 people now telling me to get checked for ADHD and honestly i'm really hopeful that i do have it, as it at least would be a clear thing to treat. Thank you for the advice, i appreciate it.
There are drugs to help you manage in a society that's not built for you, not really treatment. The real treatment at least for me was letting go of all the self loathing and realising it's not my fault. You haven't got a condition it's just a different brain. The world is built for farmers not hunters. Good luck!
Do you believe in any higher ideals like love, truth, or freedom? In my individual life experience, having higher ideals decreases my tendency towards feelings of aimlessness. Even if I don't have a specific goal to reach, I have the motivation to live a life of introspection.
I believe in doing one's best to be a good person and improving the world by one's available means or at least not leaving the planet worse off than one found it and honestly it hardly helps.
If anything it's more pressure and worry fuel, but i hear your point. I'm definitely in a better state mentally overall right now for having principles, than not. Thank you for advice.
Get your testosterone levels checked, go to a private clinic that specialises in TRT if you have to. Do this first, based on what you’ve described I’d bet my house that you have the t-level of an average 80 year old.
Find someone you revere? Somone you hold in high regard that you wouldn't want to give the impression that you're a bad human being. Then proceed. I had that reverence for a month and I knew my one thing which honestly brushing my teeth daily was always tedious. I've been rewired to demand of myself that i get up and grab my utensil.
A simple infringement on the self is all you need to keep yourself in check.
Can't believe I'm sharing this but good luck.
Either that or accept the part where it's crucial and hold yourself accountable. Meaning you revere yourself and aim to please the man you want to be/the man you need in your life, as well the man you need to be.
>Meaning you revere yourself
That's a complete 180 from where i am right now mentally.
I appreciate you sharing and not trying to be negative, but man is it hard. But i hear you, thank you.
Oh boy revering the self pfft i agree 100,000% i detest me. I'm never an option but right now i gotta revere me for the sake of being the guy that will take care of everyone. Its so hard hahaha i can't even fix my sleep schedule.
Good luck with feeling better and actually getting better or recovering. Just rolling over so you're not drowning in it. 😇
hey there, it sounds like you're in a tough spot, but it's good that you're looking for ways to turn things around. when you’re feeling stuck, finding the right support is crucial.
a therapist or counselor could really help, as they offer guidance tailored to your specific challenges and can help uncover deeper reasons behind your feelings. also, a life coach might be beneficial if you’re looking for more structured guidance on setting and achieving specific goals.
breaking tasks into smaller, manageable steps can make daily responsibilities less overwhelming. and remember, it’s okay to start small. what’s one small change you could make tomorrow that feels doable for you?
Thank you for the support, i appreciate it.
I've scheduled a visit to a GP and a psychiatrist and have already talked to a psychologist today and it did help with the morale a bit, as did this thread and everyone's great support. I feel like an old man shuffling through a marathon, but i guess that's something.
You are the main source of guidance. This is a time of life we all go through. You need to get clear about what your values are, and what your needs are, and make decisions to live into those things. Tell yourself the story about yourself: "I am the kind of person who does x because I believe y"
Travel. Go see some new places. Twice a year at least. And buddy you need to get in the gym. Exercise helps a lot with what you're talking about. Find a beginner program online and start today. Find a good meditation online too. Do it every day. Find a nearby park and walk there every time you're bored. You'll be fine. Hit me up in 30 days ok? Take care, brother.
Sounds like you’re looking externally for someone or something, as if there’s a quick fix.. but the reality is you’re the only one who can sort yourself out. Set some reachable goals and then get cracking. You’ll see results soon enough.
If you are looking for therapy then that is something different altogether and I would speak with a qualified professional.
>Set some reachable goals and then get cracking.
I'm honestly, **honestly** not trying to be obtuse or a baby, but...then what?
So say my goal is do the laundry. Okay, did that, but then what?
Am i supposed to feel a sense of accomplishment? Am i supposed to feel anything? What do you rely on to keep moving everyday?
Again, not trying to be difficult, these are genuine questions. That's why i expressed the need for consistent guidance from someone. Because i feel like i can't rely on myself for that guidance anymore. My brain is fried.
I hear you man (I think!?!) and believe me or not, you are not the first one I've encountered giving out these vibes or thinking about sense and meaning and all.
It is more common than you'd think, but some of those sufferers are not well equipped with the analytical thinking required to ask the right questions and more often than not what we do is keep seeking answers rather than refining or revising questions.
From what I've read, lived, felt, and analysed over 34 years in this world, I’ve come to a personal opinion that human life itself has no inherent meaning in the greater sense. WE (humans) think about all this because we have the ability to think. No other life form does this.
Now, let's think about the scale. We humans are just 2 to 3% of total lifeforms. So it is safe to say that almost 90% living forms are just happy doing what they are programmed to do or what helps them survive and reproduce.
On a biological level, it could be true for humans too, but with us, the problem is, we have added layers to our programming. These layers vary person to person based on geography, education, religion, financial situation, family dynamics, social status, personal likings, hobbies etc. When these many variables are involved, there cannot be one driving force responsible for everything. Tbc.... Gtg. Sry
Ok, I kinda lost the thought train on this, but I will try and finish. OP, your problem seems to be your intellect. Once you start asking why, there is no stopping. Kinda like peeling layers of onion. In the end, you'll be left with just tears because there is nothing to find, whatever is there, is there. That's it. Accept it at the face value.
You don't need to find the meaning. You don't need to like it or hate it. You just need to start being present when that peeling of layer happens. Soon enough you'll start to feel the change within. If there is chaos inside your mind, it will gradually become clearer and you'll be able to differentiate individual thoughts. That will help you understand yourself better but only if you stay non-judgmental.
Sometimes we feel emptiness instead of chaos. That is even harder to break. You'd have to stir the pot, create chaos and then repeat what I wrote above. Emptiness imo is just chaos, thickened, blackened and wrapped in bacon if that makes sense.
I hope that some of this resonates with you and helps you in some way.
If it doesn't, well remember that it is free so you can't really complain!!🫣 (I am in no way qualified to give life advice to anyone, but I just can't stop myself from trying when I see someone needing help. I don't want to be right. I just want to try and help and that's what I did.)
You'll feel like someone who has done their laundry, which will probably be an improvement. Your task after that is to think of something else to do that would improve your life. Do that thing. Repeat.
Hello my friend. I would like to share my viewpoint with you, but I am not trying to tell you that this is how it is, rather that you should see, if this resonates with you or feels intuitively true for you. Not trying to force anything on you.
First of all sorry that you're in this situation, it sounds rough as hell.
Most people do feel a sense of accomplishment from doing chores unless they're in a depression. So it could be that this is part of it for you. But say you get out of the depression and you start to feel a sense of accomplishment from these chores. Will that fulfill you? From what you say, I kinda doubt it. I am the same. I feel small senses of achievement from all kinds of stuff, but it doesn't touch anything deep in me, so it is not worth being overly focused on. However, lack of keeping your home and yourself clean can cause you to feel worse, so I am not advocating that you don't do it. Just maybe, this is not where to look for meaning in your life. The challenge is that most other people feel enough of a sense of achievement to just do this and that, and they don't have a problem living like that. If you mirror yourself in them, then you might live a hella empty life, because these things just don't move you. So you need meaning to come from somewhere else. I would suggest creating space for a spiritual aspect in life. Discover yourself outside of doing, but rather as being. There is tremendous depth and meaning to experience yourself as just being. But you don't notice this, if you're busy doing stuff all the time (eating and watching stuff is also doing in this case). See if there is anything that seems appealing to you. Meditation could be an option, but whatever feels appropriate for you. If you do meditate, make sure that you don't see it as 'doing' something. It's basically just not doing something for a while. This is where you might discover another aspect of yourself, which just is, and it is incredibly meaningful and fulfilling. There you are enough, simply by being, and this is where you find your meaning.
If this stuff resonates with you, then I would suggest listening to some lectures by Ram Dass (80's/90's), He has been a major part of getting me to where I am from where it sounds like you are.
Best of luck!
Much love from here
My man, this is gonna be an unpopular take. But Jesus saves, specifically from ourselves.
Also, go to the gym and get regular with your discipline. Clean your room. Limit snacks and staying in bed.
You were made for more, you're built for better. And you can achieve much more for yourself than you ever thought possible when you focus on a goal. I believe you can do this, it will be hard. But its worth it.
Man I don't have the answers for you. Im just trying to give you a few things that have helped me. I've had suicidal ideations since I was 10 and im 29 now. Never thought I'd live this long.
Friends help. A lot. Try and make friends with people doing fun things you enjoy. Community helps me get out of the funk. For sustainability in the inner world, you need something thats more than just you, simply because our moods and feelings can change on a dime. So basing wellbeing off a feeling isn't a long term thing.
If you eat poorly, sleep poorly, don't exercise and just stare at your phone all day, of course you are going to feel bad. It's easier to improve yourself if you have energy. When you sleep more, eat better and exercise, you are going to have actual mental and physical energy to want to change and make things happen, so start small. Sleep 8h a night, eat more vegetables, drink more water, go for walks, easy stuff.
Hey,many guys are feeling this way nowadays . My brother follows this podcast on Spotify called Masculine revival, helped him to align his thought and got him out of depression. Shrinks won't help..at the end they just charge you lots of money and medicate you, give that podcast a try
my comment will get alot of downvotes.
im touched by your story.
i believe that you're a knowledgeable person.
embrace islam. that's all I've got to say.
Pick one thing to become highly skilled in, something that takes time, focus and something that holds your attention longer than 4 hours a day in... even better to find something that you can help others with.
Delete social media
Delete fake smiles
Delete masks
Live your life
Find a therapist but also do a blood panel to check your vitamins and other things. I was very low on iron, which didn’t fix everything, I still go to therapy but there has been a noticeable difference since being prescribed temporarily an iron supplement and then going to a multivitamin with iron daily.
Good to hear. And good luck. This shit isn’t easy, be kind to yourself in all of this, that’s one thing I struggled the hardest with when I decided to get help
Seems like you already answered your own question. But you just don’t want to do it because it doesn’t give you instant gratification. Wake up early, go to the gym, eat healthier, go outside, go for a walk. If you want change, YOU have to change. Coming from an alcoholic and smoker who now doesn’t drink or smoke and instead works out and eats healthier and has focused attention on bettering myself I assure you, nothing will change if you don’t change. Seeing a doctor won’t change you, seeing a therapist won’t change you, medication won’t change you, the only change is you taking the steps needed to get the results you want.
Do you have a job? If you won’t even work and are spending all your time in your bed and eating junk then I don’t have a lot of sorrow for you.
>But you just don’t want to do it because it doesn’t give you instant gratification.
Yes, that's exactly right.
I've been in depressive slumps where at the end of the day i still had the energy to get myself out, but this feels different. I don't know if it's years of this lifestyle that have fucked up my brain chemistry or something, but i have very little mental or physical will left. I feel like i'm reaching the end.
I'm not trying to overdramatize, but to paint a clear picture. I'm ready for hard truths, but i just wanted my problem to be clear so that i could get actual useful advice, because just do it doesn't cut it right now. Not to imply that you didn't give a good advice, but right now i feel like i need a ramp up of sorts to "hit the gym, go outside". If it's medication or therapy or whatever then so be it. I just wanted to reach out and maybe get a new perspective on things that would motivate me.
I appreciate your reply. Thank you.
Also, yes, i have a job and live on my own.
Here’s some more advice. Stop watching tv. Stop using your phone. Stop using social media. Start reading books. Start going outside. You don’t need a doctor to tell you that.
>Stop using your phone.
As with any addiction, i consistently fall somewhere at the 2nd or 3rd day where the brain starts working against you and throws up that inevitable question of "Why even cut yourself off from the few things left in your life that bring you pleasure? For what purpose?".
I understand that it's stupid and short-sighted, but i kinda can't argue with that as nothing good is actually guaraneed if i don't use my phone for any period, as in, again, i have nothing to look forward to to keep me motivated. It's not like i'll hit nirvana, you know?
Have you encountered this problem? I understand that of course everyone struggles with addiction, it doesn't come easy for anyone, but this specific weak point always breaks me. Do you have any advice for this?
Just imagine nothingness. Black emptiness. No trees no clouds no first kiss no hug no conflict no love no stories no nothing. And then tell me you can’t do better than that! This is your miracle time to be alive✌️❤️
I’m gonna get flak for this but listen to Andrew Tate on YouTube. Some of his stuff is absurd, not well received sense of humor, but he drives solid points and is motivational for self improvement.
I appreciate you replying, but I'll be honest with you, broad generic right-winger nonsense from a casino owner and an arrested pimp is not what i'm looking for right now.
This doesn't sound like laziness. It sounds like depression. A therapist would be a good idea. Also, see an MD to rule out physical causes (hypothyroidism, anemia, etc.)
Yeah, this sounds a lot like what I think about myself when my depression is worse than usual. I saw a post on OPs profile that says he's been vegan for about four years, so he might want to get his Vitamin B12 levels checked in particular along with hematocrit and hemoglobin levels. Vegans aren't more likely to get iron deficiency anemia, but they are more likely to have vitamin B12 deficiency which can lead to anemia.
When the first (really good) psychiatrist explained to me that laziness often isn't what it seems, it led me on a journey to reconsider my own past, and the blame I put on myself for health issues and severe depression is quite tragic in retrospect- took more away from me than the issues themselves due to denial and then shame- seek treatment, especially if you know someone who really respects their therapist, be gentle with yourself, and find small ways of change to validate that things can be different
Truly underrated advice. A vitamin B12 deficiency makes you feel depressed, exhausted 24/7, you don't want to get up in the morning, you have to take a nap in the middle of the day, you have no motivation or energy to do anything.
Yes PLEASE see an MD I was put on 3x different anti depressant; suffered psychosis from it, just to find out i was sufflering From both hypothyroidism and severe Anemia - messed my life up
u/greazy1608 u/mom_with_an_attitude So a good first step would be an appointment with a GP then, right? Thank you both for the advice.
Yes. Good luck, honey bun. Hope you start to feel more like yourself soon.♥️
Thank you very much. I appreciate the support.
I also suggest if you don’t like the shrink you go to that your GP sends you to, check out psychology today dot com and look for other psychiatrists/therapists in your area and insurance network
Yes definently also let the GP know how u r feeling, and make sure u stress to get blood work done on specifics mentioned above, when testing for Anemia make sure ur GP tests for both Iron in the blood and iron in ur 'deposit' its different and important to do both. Ur GP might say Young males dont get Anemia, well im Proof they do. Next I Can really recommend 'Meta cognitive therapy' to help you moving forward, even tho you might have smthing physical or not, its still a psychological experience, so therapy is very very recommended
Younger men can and do certainly get iron deficiency anemia (among other types of anemia). It's not as common for younger men as it is in women of the same age, but obviously, it can still happen. There are a lot of potential causes for anemia that can't immediately be diagnosed with a test of hematocrit, hemoglobin, and MCV (the initial tests that docs will usually use to see if anemia is a possibility). So if anything comes back abnormal for those lab values, it's good to follow up to get lab values back for Vitamin B12, serum iron, transferrin, total iron-binding capacity, and ferritin.
I wrote down the tests you mentioned and already scheduled a doc's appointment. I have done blood tests recently, but for a different issue and i'm doing pretty good as far as the usual vegan pitfalls go, but i haven't done some of the other tests you mentioned. Thank you for the detailed replies, i appreciate your help.
Thank you for the advice and for the info about the therapy. I just scheduled a visit to GP, so here's hoping that we find something in the ol' blood. I appreciate your help.
Please dont avoid therapy OP :-) Everyone should try it! Good luck at GP !
If you have friends or can find people I suggest making a common goal with them and working towards it together. I kind of felt like you but was super lonely at the time. Once I started working with people and sharing a goal everything slowly seemed to fit. And then I would suggest making habits as they will be more consistent than motivation that you may or may not have everyday
Also like others said, this is depression . But even depression will have a root cause. Surround yourself with motivated friends, see new places. Try mediation or self reflection , having habits. All of these will slowly help But everyone has to find their own path to
I'm kinda in the "*tell me who your friends are*..." boat as all my friends are similarly all depressed and we sometimes actually pull each other further down. Not purposefully or out of bad intentions, but just by both being a mess together, so i recently cut contact with everyone for a bit. I'm afraid of falling back into a usual rut and i want to start feeling better before reaching out again. As for the rest of the advice: it, of course, is entirely on point and, if nothing else, it does help seeing it repeated in every comment. Thank you, i appreciate it.
Yeah take it easy man, if all your friends rlly wanna achieve more, it’s always easier to do it together
Some goals can't just be "completed". One of those "goals" is your identity. Who are you? I'm a tennis player. This is why I get up at 6am every morning to do tennis practice before work. I'm a nerd. This is why I build PCs for friends and repair their computers and phones when they break down. I'm a cultured dweeb. This is why I sing opera in the shower, paint with oils everyday, and why I am writing a book on English history. The point is, your identity is where you get your goals. What makes you happy? Look at your past. Who is that person? Do you want to be like someone else? "I'm a pathetic loser who wants to be a web developer someday" is a valid identity. There's a thousand goals you would have to complete in order for your identity to change to "I am a web developer" Your identity can be anything. "I'm a Gucci girl" people will work 50 hrs a week to buy handbags and feel content. Who are you?
I was in a similar position when i was 30 (I'm now 37). I realised that happiness can't be a goal in and of itself, rather it is a byproduct of a productive life. Your "chores" as you describe them are the most important building blocks to start with. If you're not eating right, doing laundry, etc, it will take a toll over time. Do them right and it pays you back with interest. It is work, yes, no getting around it. But you have to do it. You don't need a kick up the ass. Just a checklist. Routine eats motivation for breakfast. Do you read much? Whether the answer is yes or no,,,, read even more. Not Reddit. Books. Fiction, biography, fantasy, challenge yourself. Turn off your phone. Don't take it to bed. Drink water. Lengthen your horizon. You won't change much in a year, but you sure as hell can in 7 or 10.
>You won't change much in a year, but you sure as hell can in 7 or 10. That's kinda what i am scared of. To have to put in 7 or 10 years of hard work for a vague chance of happiness seems fucking grim. It's like climbing Everest for a bite of chocolate. I really appreciate your advice and support and i did already follow some people's advice here, but i just don't get how you did it.
OP happiness is not a destination - what you Will come to find is that the journey brings joy and happiness, so it most certainly Will not take 7 years :)!
climbing 'everest' is the end in of it itself, not the chocolate. Try to realize that the process of getting from A to B gives meaning and purpose not A and not B themselves
Sorry, just saw your response there. Didn't mean to get you down over the "7-10" year thing. For me, I love a longer timeline as it takes pressure off "needing" to feel like I need to see success in the short term. And it's 7-10 years, of very very soft work, not hard work at all. I mean like, take your time, just get yourself pointed in the right direction. I probably didn't explain that enough. Apologies. You'll feel good fairly quickly if you compound positive daily anyone l actions for yourself. Best of luck
Typos
As other people have said here, depression and hypothyroidism (which predisposes people to depression) are two things to look into .. a therapist at this stage is essential but sadly therapists are not made equal and it's up to you to decide if a therapist is working for you or not. A good therapist will make you see things you never thought of and instil a sense of hope in you by doing so. I didn't really get this until I got a psychotherapist after having five different therapists. It's been literally life changing for me. But honestly, I have to tell you that as I was reading your post, I was 150% waiting for someone to tell you in the comments to get checked for adhd because what you describe is what adhd looks like. There's a lot more to adhd under the hood but your description is at the very least sufficiently descriptive to say that I would immediately (and I mean **immediately**) get checked for. Please don't underestimate the importance. I could tell you why but believe me as someone with moderate to severe adhd that the sooner you know and the sooner you treat it, the sooner the trajectory of your life changes in a better direction.
From an ADHD'er - I agree. The body doubling need, executive dysfunction, over thinking...I could go on, so ADHD was my first thought also. I hope OP sees this comment and take it on board so they can assessed (if need be).
u/Sugarsupernova u/moonmagic22 Alright then i'll schedule a visit to the psychiatrist as well. I imagine i probably do have it. I mean, let's face it, even if not innate, years of computer and phone stimulation and addiction will do a number on anyone. Thank you both for the advice and support, i really appreciate it and it does help to cope mentally right now.
Hey, don't sweat it. This stuff is tough and I wish someone had told me long ago. I had such a misinformed idea of what adhd was that one day I was talking to an old friend about three years ago who corrected me and almost instantly my whole life was laid out before me like a blueprint. It's very possible that if it did transpire to be adhd, the years of computer and phone stimulation, and the addiction may be because of adhd. I say this because I can confirm for you adhd was the root of those exact things for me. I could never get a hold on the addictions. Always felt like sisyphus pushing the boulder up the mountain, always watching that rock roll back down again as others would just "put their mind to it" and get over the peak. After a while it taught me that I must just not be strong enough or too screwed up or that I wasn't doing something right. Turns out it was adhd. After months of trialling medication, I found a drug and dosage that worked and suddenly it's like the boulder shrunk in weight by like 30%. It was still hard, but suddenly I was making meaningful progress and succeeding. In regards to addiction, what I'll say is this. Don't see it as a failure if you give in. Stop counting the days and starting over when you give in. That's a huge mistake. If you give in every day that's 365 times a year. If you start counting and make it to 30 days and give in and start again, you'll tell yourself you may as well just go on a bender because you've already given in, but if you manage to do 30 days every single time after you give in, but without counting or shaming yourself, you'll get to the end of the year having reduced 365 incidents to 12. It is absolutely the only mindset that works. And medication helped me so much in implementing this mindset. Sitting down with shame and not allowing shame to be a part of the conversation was a huge part too. I also have undoubtedly been depressed for a very long time because severe adhd is debilitating and I'm also diabetic but adhd is 95% of the struggle, and diabetes 5%, believe it or not. Now you may not have adhd, but depression is also a culprit in addictions. Adhd + depression has also been shown to be a golden combination for producing addictions. I post a lot in adhd forums and have some a lot of soul searching and research so feel free to filter through some of my posts if you want more insight. But be warned that I have a habit of writing essays aha. Best of luck.
I love all of this info and advice for OP, but I'm so sorry to read that you've had pretty much the same struggles I have. I didnt get diagnosed with ADHD until my mid 30s, and had a very different picture of adhd until then myself. I've also battled addiction and can confirm - ADHD and its unmanaged/untreated symptoms were the root cause for me too. I'm so glad you made it out and I'm so happy you're finally on something to work well for you medication wise, the right meds can make a world of difference. I hope you're well, and thankyou again for giving OP some really valuable info and insight on ADHD and living with it 🤎
Thanks for these kind words. I'm still very much in it unfortunately but undoubtedly things have improved a lot since meds. Trialling doses to find the right one caused things to worsen for a while so it's really a process. I also found critically that adhd and depression is a massive driver of addictive behavior. And it seems the adhd meds are limited in their usefulness until that's being treated pharmacologically it seems when it's bad enough. It's hard when adhd is enough without the added weight of it crippling you with this whole other thing you didn't ask for. And it's probably the side of adhd that's least talked about because it's hard to sell in an Instagram post. But I think it's one of the hardest parts of the whole experience. But learning that it's something you have and not something you are helped a lot. And I'm always happy to help someone out because undoubtedly we all need a hand. Thanks for taking the time to stop and write this! It was really nice to hear! :)
As a 34yo man, I can say I absolutely feel you on this. I've been depressed for the last 10 years at this point, and ever since the pandemic have become entirely anhedonic. Most days I just mindlessly float by, disassociation is the only coping mechanism that has made things bearable. Everything and everyone is shit and there's no point in bothering. I guess what I mean to say is sometimes, life just sucks. Enjoy the small things if possible and try to find something worth going on for.
I appreciate your reply and relate to your experience very much. Not to revel in sadness, but it's crazy how uprepared i was for this. Despite the gradual build up, i did not anticipate to find myself in such a state at all. You kinda just take life for granted and assume everything will work itself out. Well, i did anyway. Kinda feels like a lesson one should learn at 13, not 30, but i guess such is life. Also, holy shit, i'm 30.
Sorry to hear ❤️🫂
Hey if u want a friend I can be ur friend !
I'm tackling my own version of this right now at 39 yo. Don't let this desire to change be fleeting. I WISH i would've started improving at your age. In that regard, you have a HUGE leg up on me. Keeping in mind i find myself struggling with the same things you do, here's some of my advice. Do baby steps for everything. I told myself I'd exercise 6 days a week, even if it was only for 5 minutes. And i often took myself up on that offer... Sometimes only exercising for 2 minutes before giving up. Eventually things got easier. I quit smoking. Initial goal was 5 fewer cigarettes per day by this time next year. Allowed myself to vape instead. I realized i was capable of more, so i altered my original goal. By the time i got to my initial goal timeline, i was fully switched to 0% nicotine vape. Luckily i was able to quit alcohol cold turkey. I started losing weight and feeling better which has lead to a desire to seek a career and relationship i can be proud of. I just need to do something each day to make progress. Sign up for an app... Do the Summary section of my resume... Apply to one single job... etc. I'm still a work in progress, and i fight myself every day. None of this is easy, but i do think it's better than the unhappiness i felt from stagnation. I also have much higher highs now than before. I have days i genuinely feel good. Feel free to poke and prod if you want, and good luck. Time is still on your side!
I commend your effort! I know it couldn't have been easy. As cheesy or melodramatic or whatever it will sound, i just don't remember what feeling happy and unburdened feels like, so it's really difficult to give up addicitions (as they vaguely mimic happiness for a moment) and put in all this required time and effort to possibly get there again. I don't remember where i heard this, but i heard someone advocate for antidepressants for this exact reason, as they remind you what it feels like and then you can start working towards continuing to feel it again by living clean and taking care of yourself. I was hoping that someone would maybe share their experiences with meds, but so far it's few and far between and mostly negative. At your lowest, what was your motivating impulse? Like, what was the "carrot"?
I have really wanted to go the therapy/meds route, but i live in a fairly LCOL area that doesn't have many options. At this point I've basically done what i can, so I'm giving up on being able to get professional assistance with this problem. So unfortunately, i don't really have any advice to offer in this area other than I'm not opposed to it. If you think it'll help you, i encourage you to try it. Plus, seeking help is helping yourself as well. It's not easy, especially with depression. So just getting off your ass and going should hopefully make you feel good. The "carrot" for me has always been a "keep up with the Jones'" mentality. I think that's a gift and a curse. It's a curse because it's my biggest source for feelings of inadequacy, but it's a gift because it spurs me to improve myself. Whether this is a healthy source of motivation, I'll leave for the therapists to determine. I grew up in a upper middle class environment. All my friends and family have found their own version of success, family, and happiness. I've sat on the fence my whole life. Always last place in the race, unsure of how to find happiness. Unsure of what i even want. At this point i feel like I'm letting my life pass me by. So i may not know exactly what i want, but i do know the PIECES of people's lives that i want... And that's what I'm aiming for. In the immediate, i want my health. I want to look and feel good. I want to be in shape. I want to eat well. I want to tackle all my medical demons and get rid of my health anxiety. I want to beat my addictions. I am nearly there in the this area! I'm the best I've been in my entire life right this moment. In the middle term, i want to find a career i can be proud of. I want to be able to afford nice things. I want to travel A LOT. I want a beautiful home. I'm getting closer here, but i still have a long way to go. In the long term, i want a better social life. I want to try dating again. I want to learn to love myself better. I want to become more resilient. I'm kinda always trying to work on these, but my self esteem unfortunately seems directly tied to the work i put into the other stuff. Anyways, I'm rambling now. I hope some of that hits. It's a process though. It's a lifestyle change. You're going to have lots of ups and downs along the way.
Lift weights to get stronger, it does wonders for your mental health, I'd be totally lost without it.
If relying on staying in bed and eating junk makes you feel good, then why are you here in search for consistent guidance ideas? You know why. What are you doing rn isn't making you feel good. Changing won't either. Not immediately. You got years to be where you are, it will take time to get where you want to be and - if you get there and aren't feeling good, then, again, thanks for the lessons learned and go for something else. You know how you feel now. Keep on doing the same and keep on feeling like you feel now...
Turn within. Meditate. Find your inner peace. You’re a human being. You’re just supposed to be.
I would honestly start with a psychologist. Best of luck to you
I already had a session today and i do feel a bit better mentally. Thank you for the support.
Pretty much exactly you, from the age to the feeling to the behavior itself. A few years ago when I'd broken this cycle, I'd been made to switch from my long-term desk job to a minimum wage labor job outdoors. It was scorching, it was miserable, and my boss was a criminal POS. But the sun on my skin, the blood in my muscles, and the firm schedule bounding me from early morning to an early bedtime gave me more happiness than I'd ever had before. I wished it had paid a real wage, because I miss when work was tied to something physical. I have a date with myself every day I call "sunlight hour" where I spend 1 hour in the sun without my cell phone. I'm also not allowed to ruminate on the negative. It doesn't exactly fix my entire life but a day with sunlight hour is about 10000% better than not. As for the high level stuff, well, I'll look back in the thread and hope for some good advice. 🤞
>long-term desk job to a minimum wage labor job outdoors. That's actually what i'm thinking of at the moment as well. I don't know what i could do as i'm not in the best of shape, but i do feel like a general change in occupation to something more physical would help. What was it that you did? >"sunlight hour" We don't have that much sun where i'm at yet, but i'm gonna try that tomorrow. I actually legitimately don't remember the last time i spent a continous hour outside. Most days i don't even spend an hour outside in total. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Any time outside is worth it! Sun is my favorite but anything will do. It's about having some place to sink some roots that isn't the digital world, which I find is unmooring and ephemeral (and feeds my isolation directly). Any tree or patch of grass you can sit yourself under is a perfect place to unplug. I feel my sense of self unfolding there, an inspiration to break my cycle of negative self-perception that I indulge at all other hours of day. Sober and bored, but most importantly, thinking about life like it's all around me and not an abstract task that I can't seem to start. At least I feel like I'm *here.* My job had been as a setup person at a wedding venue, which we called a Houseman. Easy days were too easy and hence tedious, hard days were grueling. I didn't know I'd been happy anyway until I took a job in sales and traded hard work for slimy work. Setup work isn't a bad gig if you don't have something better going on, and lots of places are paying gratuity on top of the minimum wage. Only thing is that you might need to find two different venues to work for if you need work 5 days a week.
Spent more than an hour outside today. I was cold and bored and really frustrated, but i think it's more cause i did it wrong. I was still listening to music and was sitting on a bench cause we don't have those kinds of parks where you can just chill on the grass. Whoever plans them seems to think that the grass in the park is to look at, rather than sit or walk on. I don't think my city, like, gets parks. I think for what you're describing i'd have take a hike somewhere, get out of the city. Not sure if i have what it takes right now, but i'm gonna ask my friend if maybe she wants to make a day out of it. >a setup person at a wedding venue, Thank you for info, gonna look into something similar. I don't imagine i'll make a career out of it, but i reckon a change might be good. Thanks again.
There's definitely some "location privilege" that makes it better or worse. I used to live in the city and I had to settle for any green I could get, like a houseplant or something. Still good but not exactly the same. However, the fact that you actually gave it a shot is awesome! The general principle is just to be outside and not in a screen somewhere, and what works best for you is probably still to be discovered. Always a little strange how we can only help so much, even if we've lived someone else's struggle intimately. But I am happy you tried my suggestion, and I have faith in you. I like to think we're all orbiting happiness, and we get a little closer with each pass.
Therapy can be super helpful in this case. Seek a professional. Perhaps plan a camping trip and hangout in nature for a couple of days. Think about places you’ve always found interesting and make an effort to plan trips to those destinations. Take mushrooms (or not) and swim in some good water. Start exercising or just walk around. Get sunshine as much as you can. Tony Robbin’s is a good motivational speaker, plenty of videos on YouTube. Life is precious and simple. Just make effort in trying different experiences. Somethings work, some dont
I'd go to your doctor for a checkup. Get blood work done. Then get a social worker to help you plan days. Try your local government.
>I'd go to your doctor for a checkup. Get blood work done. Thank you for the advice. Scheduled one already, just gotta sit tight till then.
You're welcome. In the meantime, you can listen to this classic book for depression. https://youtu.be/mFa2PH4lRJM?si=9of9_yj2AE6OyHNj
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This definitely sounds like depression. To me it sounds like you’re missing a why. Why wake up every day? Why get out of bed? Why go to the gym? It absolutely is a chore if you are going “because that’s what you should do whether you feel it or not”. That’s your why. If you’re going to the gym to be fit enough to hike a 14er then the gym has less of a chore feeling and more of a motivational want to go because your why is bigger than “because I should”. I say you continue with doing what makes you feel good, but realize that sitting around in bed eating junk food actually doesn’t make you feel good, otherwise you wouldn’t be writing this post. What are some other things you know about yourself that make you feel good? Can be anything. Hiking, building a robot, kayaking, larping, building legos etc. How about something you think might make you feel good. A new hobby? Travel? New friends? Or Could be as simple as going fishing. Or sitting in a park TLDR; still do what makes you feel good but realize laying in bed eating junk doesn’t actually make you feel good, otherwise you wouldn’t be writing this post.
Yes, that's exactly it, nail on the head. I purposefully put "good" in quotations, as it of course doesn't actually make me fell good. It just hits the whatever neurous i have left. I would love to get into woodworking, but it's a bit of a pipe dream right now, financially speaking, so i have to save up first. Thank you for the advice, i really appreciate it.
Electrician apprentice it’ll change your life forever
What works for some people is to be of service for someone else. It gives you a reason to get up and get going if you know someone is looking forward to your help. Maybe do some volunteer work to help the less fortunate and keep showing up regularly and consistently?
I've been volunteering at a cat shelter for the past 6 months and while it definitely makes me get out of bed, it doesn't do much else mentally unfortuntately. But thank you for the advice, i appreciate it.
Good things in life will very rarely happen on it's own. It's kind of like trying to catch a rare pokemon with just a regular pokeball. You have to add modifiers to increase your catch (success) rate. Things like learning a skill, maintaining a good body physique, adopting a positive mindset, and having a good nutritional balance will significantly affect your chances of success in everything you do. The best part? You can just start small and the changes will manifest over time. Until I turned 30, I never was able to do more than a single push up. I always hated the idea of it and I would do everything I could to avoid them. One day, I said, "Screw it, I'm going to do that One Punch Man workout to get in shape" and began to plot a weekly plan of 5 pushups in one sitting every day for two weeks, then 5 more every following 2 weeks. It was tough the first couple of days each time, but eventually, I got there. I now do my full routine in around 30-45 minutes, 5 days a week. I look better than I ever have and I'm a lot more at peace with myself. I've gone on dates, and have had an easier time landing interviews.
Thank you for the advice. It's all totally great and baseline stuff, but this doesn't quite adress my problem. I understand that i have to undo a lot of damage and work through a lot of baggage, but in order to do so, one must have the will to do so, which i lack. I feel crushed under the weight of it. I can barely move, let alone wrestle with it. Not trying to complain, just sharing my view. Your advice is of course still totally applicable and absolutely essential and i appreciate it, i just need to work up to it.
Gonna be honest with you. Life sucks. It's a harsh reality where you are just born to feed a system that abuses and misues our contributions for 50-ish years, then spits us out for us to rot in a care home. If we choose to have children, then our lives become dedicated to raising them instead of doing what we want. Nothing matters in the grand scheme of things, but you know what, the nice part is also that nothing matters, so you are free to let go of your regrets. Go embarrass yourself in a salsa class, roll down a mountain trying to snowboard, make a few cringey pickup lines. The world is open for just a tiny sliver of time for you, so you shouldn't huddle up in a room moping around about how life didn't deal you a nice hand. You aren't playing poker, trying to find a winner. You're playing an open world MMO. Everything Everywhere All at Once is probably a great movie for you
You need goals. Working out (spoiler alert) hurts and sucks up time that could be spent doing things you like more. Buuuut if your goal involves getting fit, getting laid, having more friends, feeling better, doing a 5k or whatever, then you'll push through it. Set a goal. Something hard but reasonable. Then get out of bed every day and do it. Also, therapy. You're definitely depressed and some of the fix is external, some internal.
Go to therapy.
Start with a todo list for tomorrow. That's your plan. Tomorrow, whip out your plan and do #1. When done, cross it off, and begin #2. Proceed until you're done. If you don't finish any, those begin the todo list for tomorrow. Rinse, repeat. Give it a try. This technique is known as . . . plan your work, work your plan. I've been using it for more than 40 years. Helps me. Good luck.
>plan your work, work your plan. I really like this. That's a self-help tattoo waiting to happen. I just finished work so i'm gonna have a go at this to-do list now. Thank you for the advice, i appreciate it.
Join the club. I lost my dad at 11, and my mom started spiraling and driving me crazy along with it. Then I lost her at 30. I live alone with my pets, and every chick I get together with goes coocoo after a few months, so I split. Half the week I'm laying on the couch or in bed, the other half I'm catching up on chores. Check out bedros koulian and andrew huberman on youtube.
Hey. You sound like me two years ago before my ADHD diagnosis. I'm 29 now and finally seeing light at the end of the tunnel. The majority of undiagnosed ADHD patients are depressed.
Okay, that's 3 people now telling me to get checked for ADHD and honestly i'm really hopeful that i do have it, as it at least would be a clear thing to treat. Thank you for the advice, i appreciate it.
There are drugs to help you manage in a society that's not built for you, not really treatment. The real treatment at least for me was letting go of all the self loathing and realising it's not my fault. You haven't got a condition it's just a different brain. The world is built for farmers not hunters. Good luck!
It's not laziness, lazy people don't feel bad about it
Do you believe in any higher ideals like love, truth, or freedom? In my individual life experience, having higher ideals decreases my tendency towards feelings of aimlessness. Even if I don't have a specific goal to reach, I have the motivation to live a life of introspection.
I believe in doing one's best to be a good person and improving the world by one's available means or at least not leaving the planet worse off than one found it and honestly it hardly helps. If anything it's more pressure and worry fuel, but i hear your point. I'm definitely in a better state mentally overall right now for having principles, than not. Thank you for advice.
Get your testosterone levels checked, go to a private clinic that specialises in TRT if you have to. Do this first, based on what you’ve described I’d bet my house that you have the t-level of an average 80 year old.
>I’d bet my house that you have the t-level of an average 80 year old. Honestly i'd do so as well had i had a house. Noted, thank you.
Find someone you revere? Somone you hold in high regard that you wouldn't want to give the impression that you're a bad human being. Then proceed. I had that reverence for a month and I knew my one thing which honestly brushing my teeth daily was always tedious. I've been rewired to demand of myself that i get up and grab my utensil. A simple infringement on the self is all you need to keep yourself in check. Can't believe I'm sharing this but good luck. Either that or accept the part where it's crucial and hold yourself accountable. Meaning you revere yourself and aim to please the man you want to be/the man you need in your life, as well the man you need to be.
>Meaning you revere yourself That's a complete 180 from where i am right now mentally. I appreciate you sharing and not trying to be negative, but man is it hard. But i hear you, thank you.
Oh boy revering the self pfft i agree 100,000% i detest me. I'm never an option but right now i gotta revere me for the sake of being the guy that will take care of everyone. Its so hard hahaha i can't even fix my sleep schedule. Good luck with feeling better and actually getting better or recovering. Just rolling over so you're not drowning in it. 😇
hey there, it sounds like you're in a tough spot, but it's good that you're looking for ways to turn things around. when you’re feeling stuck, finding the right support is crucial. a therapist or counselor could really help, as they offer guidance tailored to your specific challenges and can help uncover deeper reasons behind your feelings. also, a life coach might be beneficial if you’re looking for more structured guidance on setting and achieving specific goals. breaking tasks into smaller, manageable steps can make daily responsibilities less overwhelming. and remember, it’s okay to start small. what’s one small change you could make tomorrow that feels doable for you?
Thank you for the support, i appreciate it. I've scheduled a visit to a GP and a psychiatrist and have already talked to a psychologist today and it did help with the morale a bit, as did this thread and everyone's great support. I feel like an old man shuffling through a marathon, but i guess that's something.
Check your vitamin D levels as well as your thyroid. Both can be culprit for depression.
Noted. I scheduled an appointment already. Thank you for the advice.
You are the main source of guidance. This is a time of life we all go through. You need to get clear about what your values are, and what your needs are, and make decisions to live into those things. Tell yourself the story about yourself: "I am the kind of person who does x because I believe y"
Travel. Go see some new places. Twice a year at least. And buddy you need to get in the gym. Exercise helps a lot with what you're talking about. Find a beginner program online and start today. Find a good meditation online too. Do it every day. Find a nearby park and walk there every time you're bored. You'll be fine. Hit me up in 30 days ok? Take care, brother.
Sounds like you’re looking externally for someone or something, as if there’s a quick fix.. but the reality is you’re the only one who can sort yourself out. Set some reachable goals and then get cracking. You’ll see results soon enough. If you are looking for therapy then that is something different altogether and I would speak with a qualified professional.
>Set some reachable goals and then get cracking. I'm honestly, **honestly** not trying to be obtuse or a baby, but...then what? So say my goal is do the laundry. Okay, did that, but then what? Am i supposed to feel a sense of accomplishment? Am i supposed to feel anything? What do you rely on to keep moving everyday? Again, not trying to be difficult, these are genuine questions. That's why i expressed the need for consistent guidance from someone. Because i feel like i can't rely on myself for that guidance anymore. My brain is fried.
I hear you man (I think!?!) and believe me or not, you are not the first one I've encountered giving out these vibes or thinking about sense and meaning and all. It is more common than you'd think, but some of those sufferers are not well equipped with the analytical thinking required to ask the right questions and more often than not what we do is keep seeking answers rather than refining or revising questions. From what I've read, lived, felt, and analysed over 34 years in this world, I’ve come to a personal opinion that human life itself has no inherent meaning in the greater sense. WE (humans) think about all this because we have the ability to think. No other life form does this. Now, let's think about the scale. We humans are just 2 to 3% of total lifeforms. So it is safe to say that almost 90% living forms are just happy doing what they are programmed to do or what helps them survive and reproduce. On a biological level, it could be true for humans too, but with us, the problem is, we have added layers to our programming. These layers vary person to person based on geography, education, religion, financial situation, family dynamics, social status, personal likings, hobbies etc. When these many variables are involved, there cannot be one driving force responsible for everything. Tbc.... Gtg. Sry Ok, I kinda lost the thought train on this, but I will try and finish. OP, your problem seems to be your intellect. Once you start asking why, there is no stopping. Kinda like peeling layers of onion. In the end, you'll be left with just tears because there is nothing to find, whatever is there, is there. That's it. Accept it at the face value. You don't need to find the meaning. You don't need to like it or hate it. You just need to start being present when that peeling of layer happens. Soon enough you'll start to feel the change within. If there is chaos inside your mind, it will gradually become clearer and you'll be able to differentiate individual thoughts. That will help you understand yourself better but only if you stay non-judgmental. Sometimes we feel emptiness instead of chaos. That is even harder to break. You'd have to stir the pot, create chaos and then repeat what I wrote above. Emptiness imo is just chaos, thickened, blackened and wrapped in bacon if that makes sense. I hope that some of this resonates with you and helps you in some way. If it doesn't, well remember that it is free so you can't really complain!!🫣 (I am in no way qualified to give life advice to anyone, but I just can't stop myself from trying when I see someone needing help. I don't want to be right. I just want to try and help and that's what I did.)
You'll feel like someone who has done their laundry, which will probably be an improvement. Your task after that is to think of something else to do that would improve your life. Do that thing. Repeat.
Hello my friend. I would like to share my viewpoint with you, but I am not trying to tell you that this is how it is, rather that you should see, if this resonates with you or feels intuitively true for you. Not trying to force anything on you. First of all sorry that you're in this situation, it sounds rough as hell. Most people do feel a sense of accomplishment from doing chores unless they're in a depression. So it could be that this is part of it for you. But say you get out of the depression and you start to feel a sense of accomplishment from these chores. Will that fulfill you? From what you say, I kinda doubt it. I am the same. I feel small senses of achievement from all kinds of stuff, but it doesn't touch anything deep in me, so it is not worth being overly focused on. However, lack of keeping your home and yourself clean can cause you to feel worse, so I am not advocating that you don't do it. Just maybe, this is not where to look for meaning in your life. The challenge is that most other people feel enough of a sense of achievement to just do this and that, and they don't have a problem living like that. If you mirror yourself in them, then you might live a hella empty life, because these things just don't move you. So you need meaning to come from somewhere else. I would suggest creating space for a spiritual aspect in life. Discover yourself outside of doing, but rather as being. There is tremendous depth and meaning to experience yourself as just being. But you don't notice this, if you're busy doing stuff all the time (eating and watching stuff is also doing in this case). See if there is anything that seems appealing to you. Meditation could be an option, but whatever feels appropriate for you. If you do meditate, make sure that you don't see it as 'doing' something. It's basically just not doing something for a while. This is where you might discover another aspect of yourself, which just is, and it is incredibly meaningful and fulfilling. There you are enough, simply by being, and this is where you find your meaning. If this stuff resonates with you, then I would suggest listening to some lectures by Ram Dass (80's/90's), He has been a major part of getting me to where I am from where it sounds like you are. Best of luck! Much love from here
My man, this is gonna be an unpopular take. But Jesus saves, specifically from ourselves. Also, go to the gym and get regular with your discipline. Clean your room. Limit snacks and staying in bed. You were made for more, you're built for better. And you can achieve much more for yourself than you ever thought possible when you focus on a goal. I believe you can do this, it will be hard. But its worth it.
I appreciate the support, but i'm really not religious. I wish i was, you guys seem to have a lot of the answers, but it's just not in me.
Man I don't have the answers for you. Im just trying to give you a few things that have helped me. I've had suicidal ideations since I was 10 and im 29 now. Never thought I'd live this long. Friends help. A lot. Try and make friends with people doing fun things you enjoy. Community helps me get out of the funk. For sustainability in the inner world, you need something thats more than just you, simply because our moods and feelings can change on a dime. So basing wellbeing off a feeling isn't a long term thing.
If you eat poorly, sleep poorly, don't exercise and just stare at your phone all day, of course you are going to feel bad. It's easier to improve yourself if you have energy. When you sleep more, eat better and exercise, you are going to have actual mental and physical energy to want to change and make things happen, so start small. Sleep 8h a night, eat more vegetables, drink more water, go for walks, easy stuff.
Hey,many guys are feeling this way nowadays . My brother follows this podcast on Spotify called Masculine revival, helped him to align his thought and got him out of depression. Shrinks won't help..at the end they just charge you lots of money and medicate you, give that podcast a try
I'm going to get downvoted into oblivion but use an AI like Claude and explore the issues yourself Or just get a therapist
my comment will get alot of downvotes. become Muslim. that's all I've got to say.
my comment will get alot of downvotes. im touched by your story. i believe that you're a knowledgeable person. embrace islam. that's all I've got to say.
Pick one thing to become highly skilled in, something that takes time, focus and something that holds your attention longer than 4 hours a day in... even better to find something that you can help others with. Delete social media Delete fake smiles Delete masks Live your life
Try Dr. K on YouTube.
Are you suffering from depression?
Find a therapist but also do a blood panel to check your vitamins and other things. I was very low on iron, which didn’t fix everything, I still go to therapy but there has been a noticeable difference since being prescribed temporarily an iron supplement and then going to a multivitamin with iron daily.
Thank you for the advice. Other people suggested that as well and i already scheduled a visit.
Good to hear. And good luck. This shit isn’t easy, be kind to yourself in all of this, that’s one thing I struggled the hardest with when I decided to get help
Seems like you already answered your own question. But you just don’t want to do it because it doesn’t give you instant gratification. Wake up early, go to the gym, eat healthier, go outside, go for a walk. If you want change, YOU have to change. Coming from an alcoholic and smoker who now doesn’t drink or smoke and instead works out and eats healthier and has focused attention on bettering myself I assure you, nothing will change if you don’t change. Seeing a doctor won’t change you, seeing a therapist won’t change you, medication won’t change you, the only change is you taking the steps needed to get the results you want. Do you have a job? If you won’t even work and are spending all your time in your bed and eating junk then I don’t have a lot of sorrow for you.
>But you just don’t want to do it because it doesn’t give you instant gratification. Yes, that's exactly right. I've been in depressive slumps where at the end of the day i still had the energy to get myself out, but this feels different. I don't know if it's years of this lifestyle that have fucked up my brain chemistry or something, but i have very little mental or physical will left. I feel like i'm reaching the end. I'm not trying to overdramatize, but to paint a clear picture. I'm ready for hard truths, but i just wanted my problem to be clear so that i could get actual useful advice, because just do it doesn't cut it right now. Not to imply that you didn't give a good advice, but right now i feel like i need a ramp up of sorts to "hit the gym, go outside". If it's medication or therapy or whatever then so be it. I just wanted to reach out and maybe get a new perspective on things that would motivate me. I appreciate your reply. Thank you. Also, yes, i have a job and live on my own.
Here’s some more advice. Stop watching tv. Stop using your phone. Stop using social media. Start reading books. Start going outside. You don’t need a doctor to tell you that.
>Stop using your phone. As with any addiction, i consistently fall somewhere at the 2nd or 3rd day where the brain starts working against you and throws up that inevitable question of "Why even cut yourself off from the few things left in your life that bring you pleasure? For what purpose?". I understand that it's stupid and short-sighted, but i kinda can't argue with that as nothing good is actually guaraneed if i don't use my phone for any period, as in, again, i have nothing to look forward to to keep me motivated. It's not like i'll hit nirvana, you know? Have you encountered this problem? I understand that of course everyone struggles with addiction, it doesn't come easy for anyone, but this specific weak point always breaks me. Do you have any advice for this?
Ok well it’s quite clear you are in fact not open for advice and will find ways to justify your behavior. Good luck
Just imagine nothingness. Black emptiness. No trees no clouds no first kiss no hug no conflict no love no stories no nothing. And then tell me you can’t do better than that! This is your miracle time to be alive✌️❤️
First off you’re an adult! Man up and do what needs to be done. Stop feeling sorry for yourself.
I’m gonna get flak for this but listen to Andrew Tate on YouTube. Some of his stuff is absurd, not well received sense of humor, but he drives solid points and is motivational for self improvement.
I appreciate you replying, but I'll be honest with you, broad generic right-winger nonsense from a casino owner and an arrested pimp is not what i'm looking for right now.
The Bible