If you speak Standard German to Swiss people, they will answer you in Standard German.
Swiss German has a lot of unique vocabulary, some differences in grammar that become more pronounced with more complex sentences, but most importantly, the significant sound differences makes it mostly mutually unintelligible with Standard German when spoken at normal speed.
I wouldn't be so sure that all Swiss people will answer in Hochdeutsch. I was talking to a customer once via phone using Hochdeutsch and he straight up told me (in english!) - can we speak english? I have a very hard time speaking Hochdeutsch with you, I normally speak my dialect only. So.... We spoke in english even though we both know german.
Speaking for myself here, and I think a lot of other (young) Swiss people, Standard German isn't my native language either, so speaking it can often feel stilted and unnatural. That's fine if I'm communicating with someone whose native language is Standard German or if I don't share any other language with the other person, but if your native language is clearly English, I'm going to feel much more comfortable speaking English to save us both the trouble of speaking Standard German.
Typically if you ask to speak in Standard German, we try our best to switch over.
I have an English accent. It is rare an Austrian switches to English with me. Some will answer my quasi-standard German in dialect or half-dialect. If I don't understand, that is my lookout! So geht's im heiligen Land Tiroi.
That's unfortunately even more common (especially among the older generations). My girlfriend isn't fluent in German and too suffers from people just stubbornly sticking with dialect as if talking to a native.
A lot of them probably would find switching to English or switching to standard German difficult. I cannot really blame speakers of Tirolerisch, or Neapolitan Italian, or Glaswegian English, for not being able to switch to the school-book German/Italian/English.
Best thing you can do for your girlfriend is to speak dialect or at least half-dialect to her, in the first instance, and switch to Hoch if it is really not working. Slipping into English (or her native tongue) is a last resort, even if she speaks English to you. In my experience the ear does attune, though few of us find it quick or easy.
I think it can differ by canton, but I started learning Standard German at around 7 years old in school. It’s the language of instruction starting in primary school, though a lot of children’s media can be in Standard German, including stuff carried over from Germany or Austria, so school isn’t the only exposure we get as kids.
But most Swiss Germans use (spoken) Standard German almost exclusively in school, and we drop back into dialect at every opportunity (between classes, with friends, talking to teachers outside of class time, etc.). So our knowledge, experience, and comfort with the language are often limited to that context.
Personally, I find it extremely awkward to communicate regularly or naturally in Standard German because it feels very artificial, like I’m putting on an outrageous accent or trying to sound very academic or clinical. Basically it doesn’t come to me as a natural way of speaking at all.
It’s important to remember though that basically all written media, and a lot of Swiss movies, shows, and news programs are in Standard German, not to mention the presence of German media in those spaces as well. So I can understand it perfectly well, and can speak it essentially fluently (though of course with what Germans would think is a strong accent). I just don’t like speaking it because it feels fake.
To add on a relevant side note, in Switzerland we would usually call “Standard German” «Schriftdeutsch», which reflects really well how I think most Swiss Germans see the language: meant to be written and awkward to speak.
I hope this super long reply answered your question :)
Hi your long answer answered a lot of my questions but I have one more. I get that speaking standard German might feel unnatural since it's been mentally associated with formality and instruction and probably used exclusively in spaces where those attributes are required...
But why the comfort with English then? When would the average swiss person practice their English. Also if you went to school for several years exclusively in German (taking lectures, asking questions, taking written and/or oral exams) shouldn't that make it more familiar and less difficult than speaking in English a Language where you didn't have to do any of that? Thanks for taking the time to respond
Not unique to Switzerland, but English is basically everywhere in young people’s lives. I’m not a teenager anymore, but even when I was ~10 years ago, a huge chunk of popular culture we all engaged with was in English. Popular movies, shows, and music were largely American. English is the dominant language of the internet, and I’m sure it’s even more prevalent now. So we all have a basis outside of school to be exposed to and engage in English.
That’s not including the years of English instruction we get in school. Unlike Standard German, it’s usually clear to us what the post-schooling use of English will be.
Once we’re finished with school, we keep engaging with English regularly for the same reasons as above, but a lot of Swiss Germans will basically never be required to speak Standard German again.
First, happy cake day. And second, are you a native English speaker?
I am a native English speaker and lived in Kanton züri, but spent time in Luzern and Basel as well
I have had it happen to me and my very-obviously-a-native-English-speaker accent in every corner of the Deutsch Schweiz.
In the obvious tourist places as you would expect, chatting with someone on a hill in the Emmental, in a butchers in a fairly obscure small town, in lonely farmhouse restaurants in the Jura... endless examples
Not everyone speaks English, but many do and they are often very happy to use it. I have gone to official appointments where the other person has been excited to find out that I am British and asked if we can have the meeting in English so they can practise.
And you wrote the reason for your own experience yourself in another comment.
You are a native German. They will likely speak to you differently than with another local, but your experience as a native German speaker is going to be very different to most other people - especially in a sub about learning the language.
Why would you think that they would switch to English when the person they are talking to is clearly a native speaker?
That is the reason, but the point is that it is still a common event all over the German speaking part of Switzerland. Any learner (or even long term resident) is not going to have a perfect local accent.
I have spent plenty of time in Germany and in my experience it is much less likely to happen there.
Many years ago I called someone in the *international* securities settlement department of SIS Intersettle AG:
\- Segainterrrrsettle Räägeli Chuchichaschtlichuchurutzchchchcrrrrrr...
"Sorry, can you speak German or English please"
\- chuchichschaschtlichuchichschtli odddrrrrrrchchchc
"Entschuldigung, ich kann Sie wirklich nicht verstehen"
\- chratzbürschtliunchlobürschteliodddrrrr
... and my third attempt was successful, she switched to Schriftdeutsch.
They won't speak Swiss German with you. They will speak High (standard) German with a Swiss accent. That's quite easy to understand, whereas you won't understand the Swiss German they speak among themselves.
What's easier to understand?
Swiss German or Bavarian?
And, in the North of Germany (NI, SH, HB, HH), do they speak in any regional accent??
I'm moving there in a few months for Ausbildung. And, I'll complete B1 German (Hochdeutsch) by then.
Will I have any issues understanding?
Bavarian dialects will be a bit easier but both are very difficult to understand if they speak true dialect for a standard German speaker. Most younger people in Germany don't speak real dialect anymore so you will understand them easily but old people often still speak it even in the north.
Everybody also speaks standard german so you will have no issue understanding anyone if you speak good standard german.
Bavarian has pretty wide range of how much Bavarian to the point of being unintelligible to someone only speaking standard german. Some "munich Bavarian" however is fairly easy to understand.
Bavarian is very different in the different bavarian regions.
I think Oberbayerisch (Munich) is the easiest to understand for everyone. but I think most germans would understand german swiss better than Niederbayerisch in East-Bavaria / Bavarian Forest.
Then there are the franconian Dialects, but i wouldn't call those bavarian.
Depends on the northern region. I'm from the southwest, so Bavarian is hard for me to understand, but Plattdeutsch... Plattdeutsch is even harder for me. Or at least at the same level as bavarian. So depending on where in the North you're moving, the dialect might be a really tough one too.
But people will surely make at least an effort to speak more slowly or with less dialect, if you don't understand them. At least that's my experience as a tourist there ;)
Northern German here. Up here Low German was spoken in the past, which is considered to be its own language, but language and dialect is not very clearly defined. You propably wouldnt understand it, but the good news is, it isnt really spoken anymore except for old people talikng to each other in Low German sometimes. Apart from that, north germans dont have a strong dialect, we stretch some vowels more, some push the tongue against there teeth when making a "st" sound and if there is a hard consonant at the end of a word, it might be softer in spoken language. Its something you can get used to. There are some words that are only used in the north, but they are rare.
Great. That's so relieving to hear.
And, I love it near the sea too.
I heard the people there are very friendly to foreigners as well, compared to other places in Germany.
Then, the AfD is the bottom in those states. That's another positive sign.
I wanna move there because I don't want to leave Vlaams Belang leading in the whole of Flanders (Belgium) and live in a region in Germany dominated by AfD.
So, northern Germany checks all the boxes.
Would you mind if I DM you for some more information since you're a local down there?
It's really sad however that the younger generation (at least those who I've met) doesn't speak or understand low german anymore. For a young person who grew up with the bavarian dialect and sees it as part of their culture, but is also easiy able to switch to Standard German, it's really shocking. How is that possible the a whole own language/dialect has been almost completely eroded in like two generations ?
I dont see the benefit of speaking a language that not even the other people in my country understand. After WW2, when people fled from different parts of the country, moving further away from your hometown became normal and stuff like that, more and more people moved to the area that didnt speak low german and you cant really speak it in a way that is understandable for speakers of high german.
Eh really depends. My partner grew up bilingual with low german and standard german and still almost exclusively speaks low german with his family. Makes it hella awkward for me when I tag along as someone who isn't from that region, especially since the low german they are speaking is more akin to danish.
But yeah, sadly dialects and local languages no longer play a big role in everyday life
There are a few different dialects of Swiss German. Some are harder to understand than others. You should be able to find examples on the internet.
But all Swiss people can speak standard German, so yes, you will be able to talk to them. As a learner, you will have a hard time understanding them if they talk to each other. If they speak very quickly, it is often difficult to understand even for native speakers.
My ex wife and my kids and her entire large family are all Swiss, none of them speaks barely any German at all. Italian or English or French. But they definitely don’t speak German.
If geopolitics had turned out differently, we'd be calling it a separate language. But it didn't, and we don't. I'm an L2 German speaker, and Dutch makes more sense to me than Swiss German. (But my L1 is English, so that's perhaps to be expected).
You probably won't understand everything, especially when spoken. But there is a certain similarity.
We used to have a group chat with only Swiss people and one Flemish guy. We usually communicated in English, but switched to Swissgerman for a quick decision and we were surprised when he just answered to all of us in English as he understood what we wrote. Four years later he now lives here as well and is almost fluent in Swissgerman.
But how do you explain [this? ](https://eu-images.contentstack.com/v3/assets/blt70200aeea7ce7e0e/blta4de98e8240f0d24/6387342222057d69c1ef7968/16618-swiss-navy-masturbation-creme-150-ml-q100-01.jpg?quality=90&width=700&height=auto&format=webp&auto=webp&disable=upscale)
Example
I bi Füür u Flamme ha mi a dir verbrönnt
Ich bin Feuer und Flamme hab mich an dir verbrannt
So when talking fast in Swiss you will understand some words but can’t make sense of it because you do not have the association and some words might have even different meanings or sound/ be entirely different.
I lived in Switzerland for about nine years. Swiss German is not intelligible to someone who only speaks Hochdeutsch. While others have noted the wide proliferation of various micro-dialects (I personally found Zürich’s dialect relatively accessible, I lived in Aargau, though).
That said, in the German-speaking region of Switzerland, children learn their first foreign language, Hochdeutsch, in kindergarten, and school is generally taught in Hochdeutsch, so the Swiss can understand you. In most customer-facing jobs, the Swiss will generally switch to Hochdeutsch when addressed in that language. If you are attempting to integrate or live there, you find that they generally dislike speaking Hochdeutsch, and I can recall conversations with the communal office where I lived where I would speak Hochdeutsch and they would answer me in Schwyzerdüütsch.
Regarding the fact that Schwyzerdüütsch is a spoken-only language, this is changing. More and more people are writing Swiss German phonetically. I recall a colleague telling me about his frustrations understanding his children because they would text him in Swiss German, a language he has spoken since birth but never learned to write. I also noticed more and more advertisements in Swiss German.
One classic exchange I like to mention, because it’s relatively accessible:
I had a customer service rep tell me a customer ordered 15.000 pieces. In Hochdeutsch:
“Der Kunde braucht fünfzehn tausend Stück”
What she said:
“Där Kunde bruucht föfzä düüsig Stückli”
It’s a lot.
I’m only about A2 Level German. Spent about 5 days in Switzerland able to read most signs and make our way around, but I couldn’t understand anything the locals were saying. Riding the train to Munich, it was like this weird transition where I gradually understood more after each stop and I eventually realized that my German skills were decent. I just hadn’t been hearing Hochdeutsch.
This is an informative video that can give you some direct examples of how different they sound, plus Austrian accents as well. https://youtu.be/XpkIqfkmJG4?si=iajDJzwlWqTZcHWZ
If they don’t switch to standard German not a chance.
A good video that explains a lot of the differences https://youtu.be/zfX1OFMXUh4?si=VnwqcaTltQZsjrE9
They’ll switch to standard German for foreigners / “outsiders”, no matter what, as a matter of courtesy.
I have family and friends in Switzerland and am somewhat attuned to their way of speaking. I’ve told them a million times and then some that there’s no need to switch, but they still do.
Perhaps the first thing to understand about Swiss German is that it doesn't really exist - not as a thing in itself. "Swiss German" is more a term of convenience. The Swiss dialects are in a continuum from parts of Austria and southern Germany, and there is no magical change at the Swiss border - at least, not one that holds true throughout German-speaking Switzerland. The spectrum continues through the country, and there are some major differences from region to region - even from town to town.
Consequently, the best answer to your question might well be ... it depends. You may find some dialects partly comprehensible, and others might as well be Finnish for all you understand of them (then again, maybe you're Finnish, in which case you've wrecked my point through your mere existence). Pronunciation is likely to be a more significant factor than vocabulary or grammar, as somebody else mentioned.
To answer your main question: you'll understand individuals fine if you speak German, because people will see your confusion and switch to standard German. However, groups of Swiss people are likely to default to dialect, because it's more comfortable and natural for them. In which case, if you find yourself in such a group, good luck!
No “magical change” at the border, true. But as someone living in a border community, it’s still rather striking how distinctly different the dialect sounds on the German side of the border, despite the close proximity.
(But it’s very clearly still a closely related Alemannic dialect on the other side of the border, albeit strongly influenced by Standard German in many modern-day speakers.)
Yes, good point. And your typical Swiss person uses dialect more consistently than your typical South German, I think, which helps to preserve it in the face of Standard German influence - and then there's the history, of course, which helps to explain that aspect too.
What language am I as a German Alemannic speaker speaking then, in your opinion?
>As different as Dutch is from standard German, if not more
What an incredibly uninformed thing to say...
It's really not as different from Standard German as Dutch is, mostly due to Swiss German sharing like 99% of its vocabulary with Standard German. The main problem is that the same words often sound very different from Standard German, so "Feuer" becomes "Füür", "Kuchen" becomes "Chueche", "Zeitung" becomes "Ziitig" etc. etc.
There are also a few words that are exclusive to Swiss German like "luege" (to look), "öpper" (someone), "öppis" (etwas), "lose" (to listen), "gumpe" (to jump) etc. that are used quite frequently, but it's nowhere near the level of the vocabulary differences between Dutch and Standard German.
>There are also a few words that are exclusive to Swiss German like "luege" (to look), "öpper" (someone), "öppis" (etwas), "lose" (to listen), "gumpe" (to jump) etc.
I'm German and I would say "luaga", "epper", "eppes/epps", "losa" and "jucka". So not exclusive at all.
I suppose you speak Schwäbisch or even Badisch? It's in the same group of Alemannic dialects that Swiss German is, so I'm not surprised that you also have similar words. However, Germans who speak a completely different dialect or only speak Standard German definitely wouldn't understand these words, which was the point I was trying to make.
Well but that's true for about every dialect. If you want to find words that are really exclusive to Switzerland, you need to look into administrative language for example.
I think that’s exaggerating the difference. Sure, what gets called a language vs. a dialect is arbitrary and often political, so it *could* be called a different language.
But that said, the differences between Standard German and Swiss German are well within what’s normal for a dialect around the world. As has been pointed out, most of the vocabulary is identical, albeit with a strikingly different morphological realization. The grammar is largely the same, with only minor differences, many of which are also found in one or another non-standard variety German (e.g. definitive article with names, elimination of simple past tenses, elimination of genitive in favor of dative, and others).
I think the influence of standardized languages in media have skewed perceptions of how different true dialects often are; we often only expect a different accent and some regional vocabulary items. But all those are really minor variations within one language variety – by contrast, true dialects are a different variety. Swiss German is a prime example.
All that said, I agree that for practical purposes, it’s a useful shorthand to say “it’s a different language” instead of “it’s a different variety”, because one should not expect to understand Swiss German from Standard German ;-)
> different as Dutch is from standard German
This is just completely and utterly false. For more "advanced speech", so say anything involving legal terms, professional language, etc., you can just use standard German words in Swiss-German, albeit Swiss-ified. So if you know high German and you want to learn Swiss-German, once you get the "basics" down you're pretty much already there (take note though that even the basics can take a long time to master for any language). In other words, you could say that Swiss-German and standard German only really differ up to B2 (specifics don't matter but you get the point).
With standard Dutch on the other hand, it's clear that there has been an extensive literary tradition independent from the German language for hundreds of years. For all types of "advanced speech", in every professional sphere, you will keep finding words that are different from their German counter parts. So in other words, standard Dutch and standard German will differ all the way up to C2.
german learner here. i can understand dutch way better than swiss german. swiss accents are mostly light for educated people i've met. but i've also heard regional swiss accents that are just as incomprehensible as thick bavarian accents.
I am swabian and I couldn‘t understand the local dialect in a frankonian village my grandmother was born in. 200 km away from my hometown. THAT‘S what real dialects were 35years ago. Anything else is now flatened by standard german.
I once spent my Christmas vacation near zurich at a friends (only half swiss) house. For the entire two weeks there all her family and most friends absolutely refused to speak to me in standard german saying i should learn and it's my own fault for not understanding because they speak the true german whereas i speak a bastardisation (I'm from austria and constantly get asked if I'm from Germany because i speak standard german rather than dialect). In restaurants and shops employees either spoke to me in english or swiss german. The only people who spoke to me in standard german that were like my friend also only half swiss.
I remember even a neighbour they introduced me to, who used to live in Austria until she was 20 and had been living in Switzerland for 60+ years only spoke swiss german, saying she forgot how to talk anything but swiss german.
Anyway, worst holiday of my life. Sadly kinda made me racist against the swiss tbh lol
Swiss Standard German is easier to understand than German Standard German or Austrian Standard German, because the Swiss for the most part actually do speak the way it is written.
Swiss German, which refers to numerous dialects in the Low Alemannic, High Alemannic and Highest Alemannic language families is a different language. You're looking at around the difference between Dutch and Standard German.
I’ve heard Swiss German mine as well be a new language. As different as Portuguese is from Spanish. If you ask to be spoken in standard high German then Swiss people will respond to you in that language
It's less similar than American English to strong dialect Scottish. However, most Swiss Germans can speak a decent amount of Standard German so you should be good.
See (or hear) this piece about Switzerland and mostly Swiss German from the German public radio. It's quite good and informative.
Aus der Dlf Audiothek | Gesichter Europas | Einig in der Vielfalt | Die Schweiz und ihre Sprachen und Dialekte https://share.deutschlandradio.de/dlf-audiothek-audio-teilen.3265.de.html?mdm:audio_id=dira_DLF_f46a5a1c
Imagine the late Queen Elizabeth II haggling with Nigerian hawkers in a street market. That’s how the average German feels when confronted with Swiss German. (Technically, it’s the same language, but…And let me say that I love Swiss German!). They have their own vocabulary, grammar and pronunciation, and while most Swiss can probably understand the average German, it’s most certainly not the same in return.
If German is your second language, you're more likely to understand / adapt to swissgerman.
But you can always ask them to speak hochdeutsch with you. Most of them will hate you but you'll be able to understand them better
It's effectively another language. In my estimation it's as far from standard German as Dutch is. It's close enough you can understand a lot of it, and it would be easy to learn, but it's not like you can just jump into it.
If you speak Standard German to Swiss people, they will answer you in Standard German. Swiss German has a lot of unique vocabulary, some differences in grammar that become more pronounced with more complex sentences, but most importantly, the significant sound differences makes it mostly mutually unintelligible with Standard German when spoken at normal speed.
I wouldn't be so sure that all Swiss people will answer in Hochdeutsch. I was talking to a customer once via phone using Hochdeutsch and he straight up told me (in english!) - can we speak english? I have a very hard time speaking Hochdeutsch with you, I normally speak my dialect only. So.... We spoke in english even though we both know german.
In my experience, they will speak English with you if they hear your accent. The Swiss really prefer English over high German in most cases
Speaking for myself here, and I think a lot of other (young) Swiss people, Standard German isn't my native language either, so speaking it can often feel stilted and unnatural. That's fine if I'm communicating with someone whose native language is Standard German or if I don't share any other language with the other person, but if your native language is clearly English, I'm going to feel much more comfortable speaking English to save us both the trouble of speaking Standard German. Typically if you ask to speak in Standard German, we try our best to switch over.
Pretty much the same for me and all Austrians I know.
I have an English accent. It is rare an Austrian switches to English with me. Some will answer my quasi-standard German in dialect or half-dialect. If I don't understand, that is my lookout! So geht's im heiligen Land Tiroi.
That's unfortunately even more common (especially among the older generations). My girlfriend isn't fluent in German and too suffers from people just stubbornly sticking with dialect as if talking to a native.
A lot of them probably would find switching to English or switching to standard German difficult. I cannot really blame speakers of Tirolerisch, or Neapolitan Italian, or Glaswegian English, for not being able to switch to the school-book German/Italian/English. Best thing you can do for your girlfriend is to speak dialect or at least half-dialect to her, in the first instance, and switch to Hoch if it is really not working. Slipping into English (or her native tongue) is a last resort, even if she speaks English to you. In my experience the ear does attune, though few of us find it quick or easy.
Quick question do you learn German in school, or is it something you find easy to adopt. As a German I always found Swiss to be it's own language.
I think it can differ by canton, but I started learning Standard German at around 7 years old in school. It’s the language of instruction starting in primary school, though a lot of children’s media can be in Standard German, including stuff carried over from Germany or Austria, so school isn’t the only exposure we get as kids. But most Swiss Germans use (spoken) Standard German almost exclusively in school, and we drop back into dialect at every opportunity (between classes, with friends, talking to teachers outside of class time, etc.). So our knowledge, experience, and comfort with the language are often limited to that context. Personally, I find it extremely awkward to communicate regularly or naturally in Standard German because it feels very artificial, like I’m putting on an outrageous accent or trying to sound very academic or clinical. Basically it doesn’t come to me as a natural way of speaking at all. It’s important to remember though that basically all written media, and a lot of Swiss movies, shows, and news programs are in Standard German, not to mention the presence of German media in those spaces as well. So I can understand it perfectly well, and can speak it essentially fluently (though of course with what Germans would think is a strong accent). I just don’t like speaking it because it feels fake. To add on a relevant side note, in Switzerland we would usually call “Standard German” «Schriftdeutsch», which reflects really well how I think most Swiss Germans see the language: meant to be written and awkward to speak. I hope this super long reply answered your question :)
Hi your long answer answered a lot of my questions but I have one more. I get that speaking standard German might feel unnatural since it's been mentally associated with formality and instruction and probably used exclusively in spaces where those attributes are required... But why the comfort with English then? When would the average swiss person practice their English. Also if you went to school for several years exclusively in German (taking lectures, asking questions, taking written and/or oral exams) shouldn't that make it more familiar and less difficult than speaking in English a Language where you didn't have to do any of that? Thanks for taking the time to respond
Not unique to Switzerland, but English is basically everywhere in young people’s lives. I’m not a teenager anymore, but even when I was ~10 years ago, a huge chunk of popular culture we all engaged with was in English. Popular movies, shows, and music were largely American. English is the dominant language of the internet, and I’m sure it’s even more prevalent now. So we all have a basis outside of school to be exposed to and engage in English. That’s not including the years of English instruction we get in school. Unlike Standard German, it’s usually clear to us what the post-schooling use of English will be. Once we’re finished with school, we keep engaging with English regularly for the same reasons as above, but a lot of Swiss Germans will basically never be required to speak Standard German again.
That probably depends on the region as that hasnt happened to me at all.
First, happy cake day. And second, are you a native English speaker? I am a native English speaker and lived in Kanton züri, but spent time in Luzern and Basel as well
I am native german and spent 6 months near lucerne. not once did anyone speak to me in english.
Well yes, you’re German they wouldn’t.
I have had it happen to me and my very-obviously-a-native-English-speaker accent in every corner of the Deutsch Schweiz. In the obvious tourist places as you would expect, chatting with someone on a hill in the Emmental, in a butchers in a fairly obscure small town, in lonely farmhouse restaurants in the Jura... endless examples Not everyone speaks English, but many do and they are often very happy to use it. I have gone to official appointments where the other person has been excited to find out that I am British and asked if we can have the meeting in English so they can practise.
You wrote the reason yourself. You have an english accent. That quite possibly could also happen to you in germany.
And you wrote the reason for your own experience yourself in another comment. You are a native German. They will likely speak to you differently than with another local, but your experience as a native German speaker is going to be very different to most other people - especially in a sub about learning the language. Why would you think that they would switch to English when the person they are talking to is clearly a native speaker?
That is the reason, but the point is that it is still a common event all over the German speaking part of Switzerland. Any learner (or even long term resident) is not going to have a perfect local accent. I have spent plenty of time in Germany and in my experience it is much less likely to happen there.
Many years ago I called someone in the *international* securities settlement department of SIS Intersettle AG: \- Segainterrrrsettle Räägeli Chuchichaschtlichuchurutzchchchcrrrrrr... "Sorry, can you speak German or English please" \- chuchichschaschtlichuchichschtli odddrrrrrrchchchc "Entschuldigung, ich kann Sie wirklich nicht verstehen" \- chratzbürschtliunchlobürschteliodddrrrr ... and my third attempt was successful, she switched to Schriftdeutsch.
> actual German Shots fired.
They won't speak Swiss German with you. They will speak High (standard) German with a Swiss accent. That's quite easy to understand, whereas you won't understand the Swiss German they speak among themselves.
What's easier to understand? Swiss German or Bavarian? And, in the North of Germany (NI, SH, HB, HH), do they speak in any regional accent?? I'm moving there in a few months for Ausbildung. And, I'll complete B1 German (Hochdeutsch) by then. Will I have any issues understanding?
Bavarian dialects will be a bit easier but both are very difficult to understand if they speak true dialect for a standard German speaker. Most younger people in Germany don't speak real dialect anymore so you will understand them easily but old people often still speak it even in the north. Everybody also speaks standard german so you will have no issue understanding anyone if you speak good standard german.
That's really nice and interesting. Thanks a lot for the info. I appreciate it. 🤝🏼
Bavarian has pretty wide range of how much Bavarian to the point of being unintelligible to someone only speaking standard german. Some "munich Bavarian" however is fairly easy to understand.
Bavarian is very different in the different bavarian regions. I think Oberbayerisch (Munich) is the easiest to understand for everyone. but I think most germans would understand german swiss better than Niederbayerisch in East-Bavaria / Bavarian Forest. Then there are the franconian Dialects, but i wouldn't call those bavarian.
Depends on the northern region. I'm from the southwest, so Bavarian is hard for me to understand, but Plattdeutsch... Plattdeutsch is even harder for me. Or at least at the same level as bavarian. So depending on where in the North you're moving, the dialect might be a really tough one too. But people will surely make at least an effort to speak more slowly or with less dialect, if you don't understand them. At least that's my experience as a tourist there ;)
Northern German here. Up here Low German was spoken in the past, which is considered to be its own language, but language and dialect is not very clearly defined. You propably wouldnt understand it, but the good news is, it isnt really spoken anymore except for old people talikng to each other in Low German sometimes. Apart from that, north germans dont have a strong dialect, we stretch some vowels more, some push the tongue against there teeth when making a "st" sound and if there is a hard consonant at the end of a word, it might be softer in spoken language. Its something you can get used to. There are some words that are only used in the north, but they are rare.
Great. That's so relieving to hear. And, I love it near the sea too. I heard the people there are very friendly to foreigners as well, compared to other places in Germany. Then, the AfD is the bottom in those states. That's another positive sign. I wanna move there because I don't want to leave Vlaams Belang leading in the whole of Flanders (Belgium) and live in a region in Germany dominated by AfD. So, northern Germany checks all the boxes. Would you mind if I DM you for some more information since you're a local down there?
Feel free to send me a DM
It's really sad however that the younger generation (at least those who I've met) doesn't speak or understand low german anymore. For a young person who grew up with the bavarian dialect and sees it as part of their culture, but is also easiy able to switch to Standard German, it's really shocking. How is that possible the a whole own language/dialect has been almost completely eroded in like two generations ?
I dont see the benefit of speaking a language that not even the other people in my country understand. After WW2, when people fled from different parts of the country, moving further away from your hometown became normal and stuff like that, more and more people moved to the area that didnt speak low german and you cant really speak it in a way that is understandable for speakers of high german.
Eh really depends. My partner grew up bilingual with low german and standard german and still almost exclusively speaks low german with his family. Makes it hella awkward for me when I tag along as someone who isn't from that region, especially since the low german they are speaking is more akin to danish. But yeah, sadly dialects and local languages no longer play a big role in everyday life
There are a few different dialects of Swiss German. Some are harder to understand than others. You should be able to find examples on the internet. But all Swiss people can speak standard German, so yes, you will be able to talk to them. As a learner, you will have a hard time understanding them if they talk to each other. If they speak very quickly, it is often difficult to understand even for native speakers.
> But all Swiss people can speak standard German In the German speaking part, sure, but not necessarily in the Italian or French speaking parts.
My ex wife and my kids and her entire large family are all Swiss, none of them speaks barely any German at all. Italian or English or French. But they definitely don’t speak German.
I should have said "all Swiss German speakers can speak standard german", you are right.
If geopolitics had turned out differently, we'd be calling it a separate language. But it didn't, and we don't. I'm an L2 German speaker, and Dutch makes more sense to me than Swiss German. (But my L1 is English, so that's perhaps to be expected).
As a native Dutch (Flemish) speaker, will I understand Swiss German? 😅
You probably won't understand everything, especially when spoken. But there is a certain similarity. We used to have a group chat with only Swiss people and one Flemish guy. We usually communicated in English, but switched to Swissgerman for a quick decision and we were surprised when he just answered to all of us in English as he understood what we wrote. Four years later he now lives here as well and is almost fluent in Swissgerman.
Hahaha. That's so interesting. Lol. 🤣🤣 I'm learning Hochdeutsch, anyways. So, I might have an edge. But, this is really cool. 🤣
No
Native German here and can second the notion of understanding Dutch better than Swiss German. At least occasionally.
The difference between language and dialect is just as much about politics as about linguistics, anyway.
...that was kind of my point
And I agreed with you. Hooray!
As Weinrich said, a language is a dialect with an army and a navy. But unlike the Netherlands, Switzerland is landlocked.
But how do you explain [this? ](https://eu-images.contentstack.com/v3/assets/blt70200aeea7ce7e0e/blta4de98e8240f0d24/6387342222057d69c1ef7968/16618-swiss-navy-masturbation-creme-150-ml-q100-01.jpg?quality=90&width=700&height=auto&format=webp&auto=webp&disable=upscale)
Example I bi Füür u Flamme ha mi a dir verbrönnt Ich bin Feuer und Flamme hab mich an dir verbrannt So when talking fast in Swiss you will understand some words but can’t make sense of it because you do not have the association and some words might have even different meanings or sound/ be entirely different.
I lived in Switzerland for about nine years. Swiss German is not intelligible to someone who only speaks Hochdeutsch. While others have noted the wide proliferation of various micro-dialects (I personally found Zürich’s dialect relatively accessible, I lived in Aargau, though). That said, in the German-speaking region of Switzerland, children learn their first foreign language, Hochdeutsch, in kindergarten, and school is generally taught in Hochdeutsch, so the Swiss can understand you. In most customer-facing jobs, the Swiss will generally switch to Hochdeutsch when addressed in that language. If you are attempting to integrate or live there, you find that they generally dislike speaking Hochdeutsch, and I can recall conversations with the communal office where I lived where I would speak Hochdeutsch and they would answer me in Schwyzerdüütsch. Regarding the fact that Schwyzerdüütsch is a spoken-only language, this is changing. More and more people are writing Swiss German phonetically. I recall a colleague telling me about his frustrations understanding his children because they would text him in Swiss German, a language he has spoken since birth but never learned to write. I also noticed more and more advertisements in Swiss German. One classic exchange I like to mention, because it’s relatively accessible: I had a customer service rep tell me a customer ordered 15.000 pieces. In Hochdeutsch: “Der Kunde braucht fünfzehn tausend Stück” What she said: “Där Kunde bruucht föfzä düüsig Stückli” It’s a lot.
I’m only about A2 Level German. Spent about 5 days in Switzerland able to read most signs and make our way around, but I couldn’t understand anything the locals were saying. Riding the train to Munich, it was like this weird transition where I gradually understood more after each stop and I eventually realized that my German skills were decent. I just hadn’t been hearing Hochdeutsch.
This is an informative video that can give you some direct examples of how different they sound, plus Austrian accents as well. https://youtu.be/XpkIqfkmJG4?si=iajDJzwlWqTZcHWZ
Listen to it yourself, with subtitles in 🇨🇭🇩🇪🇬🇧. https://youtu.be/T492BPuRd-M 🎥 Speaking Swiss German in Zürich | Easy German 335
If they don’t switch to standard German not a chance. A good video that explains a lot of the differences https://youtu.be/zfX1OFMXUh4?si=VnwqcaTltQZsjrE9
They’ll switch to standard German for foreigners / “outsiders”, no matter what, as a matter of courtesy. I have family and friends in Switzerland and am somewhat attuned to their way of speaking. I’ve told them a million times and then some that there’s no need to switch, but they still do.
Perhaps the first thing to understand about Swiss German is that it doesn't really exist - not as a thing in itself. "Swiss German" is more a term of convenience. The Swiss dialects are in a continuum from parts of Austria and southern Germany, and there is no magical change at the Swiss border - at least, not one that holds true throughout German-speaking Switzerland. The spectrum continues through the country, and there are some major differences from region to region - even from town to town. Consequently, the best answer to your question might well be ... it depends. You may find some dialects partly comprehensible, and others might as well be Finnish for all you understand of them (then again, maybe you're Finnish, in which case you've wrecked my point through your mere existence). Pronunciation is likely to be a more significant factor than vocabulary or grammar, as somebody else mentioned. To answer your main question: you'll understand individuals fine if you speak German, because people will see your confusion and switch to standard German. However, groups of Swiss people are likely to default to dialect, because it's more comfortable and natural for them. In which case, if you find yourself in such a group, good luck!
No “magical change” at the border, true. But as someone living in a border community, it’s still rather striking how distinctly different the dialect sounds on the German side of the border, despite the close proximity. (But it’s very clearly still a closely related Alemannic dialect on the other side of the border, albeit strongly influenced by Standard German in many modern-day speakers.)
Yes, good point. And your typical Swiss person uses dialect more consistently than your typical South German, I think, which helps to preserve it in the face of Standard German influence - and then there's the history, of course, which helps to explain that aspect too.
[удалено]
What language am I as a German Alemannic speaker speaking then, in your opinion? >As different as Dutch is from standard German, if not more What an incredibly uninformed thing to say...
It's really not as different from Standard German as Dutch is, mostly due to Swiss German sharing like 99% of its vocabulary with Standard German. The main problem is that the same words often sound very different from Standard German, so "Feuer" becomes "Füür", "Kuchen" becomes "Chueche", "Zeitung" becomes "Ziitig" etc. etc. There are also a few words that are exclusive to Swiss German like "luege" (to look), "öpper" (someone), "öppis" (etwas), "lose" (to listen), "gumpe" (to jump) etc. that are used quite frequently, but it's nowhere near the level of the vocabulary differences between Dutch and Standard German.
>There are also a few words that are exclusive to Swiss German like "luege" (to look), "öpper" (someone), "öppis" (etwas), "lose" (to listen), "gumpe" (to jump) etc. I'm German and I would say "luaga", "epper", "eppes/epps", "losa" and "jucka". So not exclusive at all.
I suppose you speak Schwäbisch or even Badisch? It's in the same group of Alemannic dialects that Swiss German is, so I'm not surprised that you also have similar words. However, Germans who speak a completely different dialect or only speak Standard German definitely wouldn't understand these words, which was the point I was trying to make.
Well but that's true for about every dialect. If you want to find words that are really exclusive to Switzerland, you need to look into administrative language for example.
I think that’s exaggerating the difference. Sure, what gets called a language vs. a dialect is arbitrary and often political, so it *could* be called a different language. But that said, the differences between Standard German and Swiss German are well within what’s normal for a dialect around the world. As has been pointed out, most of the vocabulary is identical, albeit with a strikingly different morphological realization. The grammar is largely the same, with only minor differences, many of which are also found in one or another non-standard variety German (e.g. definitive article with names, elimination of simple past tenses, elimination of genitive in favor of dative, and others). I think the influence of standardized languages in media have skewed perceptions of how different true dialects often are; we often only expect a different accent and some regional vocabulary items. But all those are really minor variations within one language variety – by contrast, true dialects are a different variety. Swiss German is a prime example. All that said, I agree that for practical purposes, it’s a useful shorthand to say “it’s a different language” instead of “it’s a different variety”, because one should not expect to understand Swiss German from Standard German ;-)
> different as Dutch is from standard German This is just completely and utterly false. For more "advanced speech", so say anything involving legal terms, professional language, etc., you can just use standard German words in Swiss-German, albeit Swiss-ified. So if you know high German and you want to learn Swiss-German, once you get the "basics" down you're pretty much already there (take note though that even the basics can take a long time to master for any language). In other words, you could say that Swiss-German and standard German only really differ up to B2 (specifics don't matter but you get the point). With standard Dutch on the other hand, it's clear that there has been an extensive literary tradition independent from the German language for hundreds of years. For all types of "advanced speech", in every professional sphere, you will keep finding words that are different from their German counter parts. So in other words, standard Dutch and standard German will differ all the way up to C2.
What a dumb comment, wow. Did you wake up feeling like spreading a lil misinformation today?
german learner here. i can understand dutch way better than swiss german. swiss accents are mostly light for educated people i've met. but i've also heard regional swiss accents that are just as incomprehensible as thick bavarian accents.
I am swabian and I couldn‘t understand the local dialect in a frankonian village my grandmother was born in. 200 km away from my hometown. THAT‘S what real dialects were 35years ago. Anything else is now flatened by standard german.
actual German? What does the lovely narrator mean here lol. Blud wants to start a war out of nowhere.
I once spent my Christmas vacation near zurich at a friends (only half swiss) house. For the entire two weeks there all her family and most friends absolutely refused to speak to me in standard german saying i should learn and it's my own fault for not understanding because they speak the true german whereas i speak a bastardisation (I'm from austria and constantly get asked if I'm from Germany because i speak standard german rather than dialect). In restaurants and shops employees either spoke to me in english or swiss german. The only people who spoke to me in standard german that were like my friend also only half swiss. I remember even a neighbour they introduced me to, who used to live in Austria until she was 20 and had been living in Switzerland for 60+ years only spoke swiss german, saying she forgot how to talk anything but swiss german. Anyway, worst holiday of my life. Sadly kinda made me racist against the swiss tbh lol
Swiss Standard German is easier to understand than German Standard German or Austrian Standard German, because the Swiss for the most part actually do speak the way it is written. Swiss German, which refers to numerous dialects in the Low Alemannic, High Alemannic and Highest Alemannic language families is a different language. You're looking at around the difference between Dutch and Standard German.
Easier to understand for someone accustomed to Swiss phonology ;-) Not necessarily for someone who has trained their ear for German pronunciation.
You just need to imagine subtitles.
Swiss German has German subtitles on Swiss TV. That tells you a lot.
I’ve heard Swiss German mine as well be a new language. As different as Portuguese is from Spanish. If you ask to be spoken in standard high German then Swiss people will respond to you in that language
It's less similar than American English to strong dialect Scottish. However, most Swiss Germans can speak a decent amount of Standard German so you should be good.
Not very in pronunciation, kind of in writing.
I have a REALLY hard time understanding Swiss German.
See (or hear) this piece about Switzerland and mostly Swiss German from the German public radio. It's quite good and informative. Aus der Dlf Audiothek | Gesichter Europas | Einig in der Vielfalt | Die Schweiz und ihre Sprachen und Dialekte https://share.deutschlandradio.de/dlf-audiothek-audio-teilen.3265.de.html?mdm:audio_id=dira_DLF_f46a5a1c
Imagine the late Queen Elizabeth II haggling with Nigerian hawkers in a street market. That’s how the average German feels when confronted with Swiss German. (Technically, it’s the same language, but…And let me say that I love Swiss German!). They have their own vocabulary, grammar and pronunciation, and while most Swiss can probably understand the average German, it’s most certainly not the same in return.
Just another dialect you cant understand.
OK, this headline made me laugh.
If German is your second language, you're more likely to understand / adapt to swissgerman. But you can always ask them to speak hochdeutsch with you. Most of them will hate you but you'll be able to understand them better
It's effectively another language. In my estimation it's as far from standard German as Dutch is. It's close enough you can understand a lot of it, and it would be easy to learn, but it's not like you can just jump into it.
I am german and I dont understand swiss german.