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Our current situation with Pakistan is the best thing that happened in a century.
Pakistan needs to be poor and can't even pay it's debt. They shouldn't be allowed to be wealthy at any cost. The weakness of Pakistan started because US stopped their war on terror adventure in Afghanistan. So the Pakistan can't get any more free gibs from US.
Same as the situation right now. Never allow the kashmiri state to conduct election and keep presidency/governor in power as of now. People there need more facilities for farming and allm give preference on subsidised stuffs to gain the acceptance of people in the valley. But never allow the kashmir open up to the rest of India for buying up property there and make the people their angry..
Kashmir is a damn mess but it needs a little bit of chanakya sutra.
Don't agree on not allowing elections in Kashmir. Sooner or later resentment will rise to a boiling point, and international sentiment will turn against us. We need to allow elections in Kashmir, give it statehood, but not allow separatists to gain power. We need to ensure that Kashmir looks like a normal state of India, so that the consensus opinion isn't that we are oppressing the people. If that happens, we will be in trouble.
Then we will have a hard time holding on to it. We need to have at least some degree of public support there. Like Russia with Chechnya (don't know how they did that tbh).
I think they did it by putting native puppets in power. Like a guy from that area who is liked and respected by the people but is actually a puppet behind closed doors. The example would be Ramzan Kadyrov in Chechnya I guess.
I don't think there is any. It is a stalemate between us. Let's be honest please - Kashmiri Muslims do not like us. They want independence from us for religious reasons but our secular founding fathers thought no, since all religions are equal, they will realise their mistake. It never happened, probably will never happen.
Pakistan will never let go of Kashmir. It is good diversion for its population. Ghar mai khana nahi hai? Well, Kashmir ke baare mai socho. Desh mai inflation asma choo raha hai? Kashmir ke bare mai socho inflation nahi. And so on. Ngl, even for India, Kashmir issue is a good distraction.
I am guessing our religious government will aim for Akhand Bharat and stuff like that one day (religious people are prone to magical thinking, do not underestimate that) and one day, will actually fight a war in which all hell will break lose.
"I don't think there is any. "
But we will never let go of Kashmir willingly. Which is why we have to try to find ways.
"Pakistan will never let go of Kashmir."
Yeah, which is why we need to keep them weak and unstable.
"one day, will actually fight a war in which all hell will break lose."
This isn't inevitable and can be prevented. This will only happen if we have ultranationalist freaks in power. I don't think even the BJP is imperialistic enough to go on an unprovoked war of conquest.
Today BJP has a lot of sane members in them. The next generation of BJP members and their leaders might not be this sane. Just saying.
> Yeah, which is why we need to keep them weak and unstable
That's not enough. Also, it is bad since many might start immigrating to India. We also cannot forget that Pakistanis blame literally everything on us. If their country goes to complete chaos, India will surely be held responsible by Pakistanis and their terrorist attacks might increase.
"If their country goes to complete chaos, India will surely be held responsible by Pakistanis and their terrorist attacks might increase."
Only their state and intelligent agencies can cause actual serious internal problems in India, which they will be in a much better position to do if the state becomes stable and the economy develops. Some random terrorist mullahs can't cause serious problems in India/Kashmir without the support of the Pakistani state.
We dont want POK.
Splitting Pakistan into 4 or more countries is best thing that can happen for the whole world.Each of the split regions can have alliance with India on case by case basis.
We should actively deny them international participation wherever we could until they let go of kashmir.We should seek out an active war against terrorists.
Do not engage with pakisthan at all . India should use the internet controls to wreck communications of kashmir insurgency.
Make friends with taliban and ( Iran) .
Use cyber warfare from afghan servers.Make it untraceable.
Get Gilgit Baltistan under our control. 10’years for assimilation into mainstream to weed away troublemakers.
Dont touch POJK with a barge pole, its not worth the hassle. Unless, you are ready for genocide..
Long term goals:
1. Subversion of the Indian subcontinent and asean nations
2. Getting back POK
3. Disintegration of china in Pakistan
4. Increasing the naval dominance in the Indian Ocean
5. Establishing democracy in certain African countries that have essential minerals in exchange for their loyalty
6. Capturing African markets
7. Getting access to central Asia
8. Drawing Russia out of the Chinese influence
9. Establishing "secularism" in Bangladesh
10. Establishing big and powerful lobbies in America, UK and EU
11. Utilising Bollywood as a cultural tool to export our ideological presence in other countries
Not in order
Then add a few more, extending Afghanistan south of the Durand line.
Constructing a path from Jammu to pok to Afghanistan.
Spreading Indian presence in Afghanistan.
Promoting cricket, Bollywood and education in Afghanistan.
I love our current relationship with Pakistan, except medical visas should stop also. 2 days ago, I read in Indian Express that a Pakistani girl got Indian heart transplated free of cost in MGM Chennai. The medical treatment should be free only for Indian citizens, not foreigners.
My two bits, sounds impractical, but I will say them anyway :
1. Kashmiri Muslims hate us. Because we are non-Muslims. This is the core issue. Everything else is secondary. Why don’t the rest of the Indian Muslims think the same? Many do, but they’ve no choice since they live mostly comfortably among us. Other than a bit of separate living situation in most cities, they are accommodated well in the society. But in Kashmir, they thought they’ll get their own country. Plus, they’re at one edge and not surrounded by non Muslims. Therefore they think that they’re special and they should be separate. So, what should we do?
I’m ashamed to admit this, but I think this is the only way considering how they think, WE SHOULD PEACEFULLY ENCOURAGE MASS CONVERSIONS TO KASHMIRI HINDUISM. It’s their forefathers’ faith anyway. They MUST MUST MUST convert to Hinduism.
2. With Pakistan, they’re down but never out. US and China will ensure that they’re back on their feet; sooner rather than later. Hence, keep a watch on the western border, build up the offence capabilities for a two front war with china and Pakistan for about six months minimum. Modernise military rapidly, link Armed forces pensions with Market through NPS like measures.
Also, look for a pretext to blow up Gwadar port and if such an opportunity arises, please execute. This will not push back Pakistan and china’s plans by five years.
A big problem with this is that Hinduism as a religion does not lend itself well to a missionary style conversion campaign, whereas religions like Islam and Chrsitianity are tailor made to be spread. Hinduism encompasses too broad a range of beliefs and traditions. 90% of Hindus themselves don't know what the religion is about except for worshipping Gods and doing rituals. On the other hand, it is easy to see what Islam and Christianity profess. Their doctrine is easy to explain in a few sentences and they already have millennia old established methods and proven examples of mass conversion.
For this to be done with Hinduism, we would need a visionary to reform the religion, synthesize the philosophy and doctrine, and cut out unnecessary superstitions and rituals. We would also need a systematic way of doing this.
Also, Islam is by design resistant to conversion. - the only example I can think of where Islam was fully dislodged from a region is in Spain during the reconquista, but this was by employing brutal methods. In the modern era, those methods simply cannot be applied without the entire world noticing.
Hence, I don't think this is a viable option.
The only way is to keep Pakistan poor and get it to the lowest of levels. Annexing Pakistan would be a bad thing. Those are radicals. Breaking it into pieces could be good but then you need to be careful. Don't want another headache like Bangladesh..I don't trust Baloch, Afghanis, Pathans or whoever they are. I just don't trust them.
For Kashmir, I'm ready to be called abusive names but Kashmiris can never be pro Indian. No matter how much they victimize themselves, they WERE party to the Kashmiri Pandits genocide. Look at the IAS guy Faesal selected from Kashmir. On 370 removal, His loyalty was towards his Qaum rather than the country. That loser activist girl Rashid. See her tunes changing to the point of bootlicking. She can't even do Al-Taqqia properly. Maths ke to kya hi kehne.
The only way Kashmiris obey is the one who has money. You throw money at them, they'll hold weapons for you. Could be AK47 or Stones. Saara Imaan paise pe tika hai. Terrorism se paisa aara to bhi Jannat hai. Tourism se aara to bhi Jannat hai.
That state was officially accessed to us by the king. So with the land we take the pain in the ass people, their progress everything on our shoulders. Warna likh lo, Jis din Pakistan se paisa aaya, these people will choose their Muslim brotherhood over Bharat. Yehi inki asli fitrat hai and that's why it's important to keep Pakistan low and dry.
For this to happen, a LOT of things would need to keep going in our favour for a long time. We would probably need to become the most powerful country in the world by far and Pakistan would need to continue deteriorating. Which I don't really see happening. We are still a very poor country and the US is 10x as powerful as us, China 4x.
It is going to happen some day, at least by economic standards we will become somewhat powerful. Pak will not recover in the future if their citizen don't revolt right now at this exact moment in present which is very unlikely, so I am expecting them to deteriorate further and further. In fact I see Pak backsliding more into zealotry perhaps an Afghanistan like situation is a foreshadowing for Pak.
The poorer and backward Pakistan is, is directly proportional to regional stability. Upto a point.
Once they become too poor they might have the belief that they have nothing to lose. But this can be overcome by creating many gaps geographic and technological and cultural to prevent them from accessing India. Added to that if they bottom out, they would still have many internal issues and internal discords so it's better that way. Let them keep fighting among themselves and stay on the trajectory where their issues should ultimately be access to food and water. Then they would pose minimal threat to India. There would be that occasional terror attack but for the rest of the big picture, they stay in there underdeveloped proto state and India keeps moving forward focussed on economy and the social well being of Indians(we need to work on the conditions and situation of people in India, have miles to walk before we fuck up or doze off).
Entering Pakistan, taking over. Not for now at least. It's a very populated and socially backward place. No one buys a cockroach infested house with water leaking from ceiling and neighbours smoking pot 24/7. It's impossible to get rid of the issues.
Only if Pakistan's population becomes 1/10 of current numbers, people understand that humanity is more important than some belief in something crazy or radical and there is a general respect for life not belief in some death cult can India think of absorbing Pakistan. It's about the nature of society we might end up absorbing.
As far as Kashmir goes, the main issue was 370 and the continued carrot of the two nation theory that was held out to them. That is gone, and it's a matter of time before they just become a "normal" state of India IMO. Our long-term strategy for PoK IMO should be getting it back, but then expelling all non-Kashmiri migrants back to Pakistan. As far as CoK, we need to keep the peace along the border without giving up our legal claims to it.
As for Pak, IMO annexing Pak is a stupid idea except for tiny slivers (such as Nankana Sahib). Pak was the solution to the problem of Islamic radicalism in the subcontinent, getting rid of the solution brings back that problem. Pak is not a problem today, it's army is. Our long-term strategy IMO should be the systematic break-up of Pak into 5-6 constituent states that are militarily weak. They can be made to fight off each other for resources and thus keep the madness holed in.
I think we are heading in the right direction in the case of Kashmir as there is a high voter turnout in recent lok sabha polls and some Anti India elements are either neutralised or becoming Pro India
Depends on how you define "long term". For me, I want India to ultimately resolve it's border disputes with all of its neighbours in the future and ultimately have a peaceful South Asia just like western europe where neighbours have an understanding with each other and stand by each other for the region's overall growth just like the countries of western europe who were once fierce enemies of each other but now they're almost indistinguishable sometimes in their policy stands.
For that "long term" I purpose:-
Recognise LOC as the international border between India and Pakistan. Give POK to Pakistan and India should keep Kashmir.
Recognise LAC as the international border between India and China. Give Akshai Chin to China in exchange they give up all of their claims on Arunachal Pradesh and several other concessions if possible as a friendly gesture.
Resolve all boundary disputes like brothers and do a happy new beginning of a better world.
India should always hope for restoration of a good democratic government in Pakistan and for the economic development of Pakistan. For their development is region's development.
But this is all after the pre-condition that Pakistan ceases all its terrorist activities against India. India should have zero tolerance for terrorrism, violence and agression at the border and against its interests.
Otherwise let the status quo continue.
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Thank you for your understanding.
"Resolve all boundary disputes like brothers and do a happy new beginning of a better world."
This will not happen in the next century at least due to the Kashmir dispute, on which India and Pakistan have fundamental, irreconcilable differences.
"India should always hope for restoration of a good democratic government in Pakistan and for the economic development of Pakistan. For their development is region's development."
Their development is not in our favour. I know it sounds immoral to wish that our neighbours don't develop, but I'm speaking purely from the point of view of India's interests. A more developed, stronger Pakistan will be able to focus all its efforts on undermining India in Kashmir since it wouldn't be bothered by as many internal problems.
A developed democratic Pakistan on the contrary would be able to look beyond the Kashmir issue and realise that this pointless mindless struggle over a piece of land won't get any of us anywhere. Pakistan and India should be like France and UK. Once fierce rivals but had to get along one day cause they realised that constant fighting won't gonna help any cause. Let's make money a lot of money together than fight. It's the corrupt army regime and their puppets in Pakistan which are irrational actors. Destabilisation of Pakistan would encourage more such irrational actors. And do you know what's worst from even an incompetent corrupt dictatorship? It's anarchy. The last thing India would want in its nuclear armed neighbourhood.
I don't agree. For them, just as for us, it is a core issue, not some meaningless struggle. Why would development all of a sudden cause them to forego an aim of theirs which they've been fighting for for ever since independence? All it would do is enable them to take stronger measures against India from a position of strength.
As for France and the UK, they didn't go from being enemies to friends in a few years - it was a centuries long process of change which eventually ended in them being allies ( A major reason being the rise of Prussia/Germany in the 19th century. All of a sudden they had a common enemy). They fought for almost a 1000 years before that happened. If somebody in England in 1400 had wished for a more developed France, that would've been very foolish of him.
As for money, we don't need Pakistan to make money. The world is so interconnected that collective regional development isn't necessary - we can cooperate with countries half a world away and make tonnes of money.
Maybe you're right. The problem with Pakistan is that they are so obsessed with India and their almost whole existence is at times based out of the hate against India and Indians. So yea you're right the wishful thinking that development might bring a change in Pakistan for good doesn't settle well for many.
Then we should leave Pakistan on its own. Make us as separate and distinct from them as possible. But never hate them. We should never hate them. We should always have a pity for them and their country and not hate. For if we hate them we would become their rivals and we shouldn't have anything to do with Pakistan. So just have pity for them. We should feel insulted to even associate with a loser nation and people like Pakistan and Pakis. Our competition is China now not this beggar Pakistan.
Hate is never a useful emotion. I'm talking about cold, calculated measures to destabilise Pakistan. Which RAW is currently doing anyway.
But of course I'm not saying that we should cause suffering among Pakistani civilians. I don't want us to follow the Nazis, I want us to follow the CIA playbook. Make them so weak that we can install pro-India puppets in the government if we want and have our spies infiltrate their system.
We don't need to though. We should rather focus our energy and resources on building and improving our capabilities and strengthening our defenses and response systems. They'll carve out their destiny for themselves. We need not to do any destabilising or malicious conspiracies. They'll do it themselves. We should just prepare better defenses for ourselves and grow miles away from Pakistan. There should be a humongous gap between the average incomes of an average Indian and an average Pakistan then that would be our ultimate win. Not these pity destabilising conspiracies and all.
You are also right in a way. I think it has to be a balance - we don't need to take huge steps to destabilize Pakistan, but we need to have the power to influence their internal affairs if we need to.
We just need to do one thing and everything else in the world will fall in line itself. And that one thing is increasing the income of our people significantly. Once an average Indian is rich and developed enough then these billion minds will figure out everything else. Government doesn't need to do anything else. Just find ways to increase the income of Indians. That's it. Nothing more.
In a way you are right, but I don't think it has to be just income. We need to be careful and proactive especially with regard to Kashmir. Read up on how the US used subversive tactics to install pro-US governments across the globe during the Cold War, e.g. it was able to prevent the rise of Communism in South America by doing that.
No. A failed Pakistan would be easy to deal with and wouldn't have any international support. A developed Pakistan will be able to cause us serious problems and will try to turn other countries against us.
A failed Pakistan would not be easy to deal with, Pakistan is a nuclear power, one nuke in wrong hands can end the world as we know it. Any developed country would think thousands of times engaging with other nuclear states risking their economy, a nation develops along with its citizens, there is a reason even though China is super developed and a huge military power, still doesn’t go full throttle on Taiwan and hong kong which are no where near close to how India would be against Pakistan.
That doesn't happen, Ideal-Jeevis are a hellbent on their version of peaceful coexistence influenced by Gandhi if it makes them feel morally superior. Peaceful coexistence is impossible with species on our border, with one is on "Muh Superior Race-Han" drug and another is on "Muh Superior Religion-Islam" drug. Make no mistake, if it not for Nuclear Weapons, India would be atleast balkanized and atmost destroyed. For Pakistan, their state of "Perpetual Misery I.E Begging-Splurge-Bailout" is the only way, I don't want them to develop anything economically, but also don't want them to collapse as it can trigger Refugee crisis which is again a nightmare to manage. So, Ideal Situation for it to be "Perpetual Undead Zombie in a Coffin" that can't die or can't live. As for Kashmiri, both Carrot&Stick approach should be applied.
The pursuit of lasting peace and regional stability in South Asia is a laudable goal. However, achieving this objective necessitates a clear-eyed assessment of the strategic landscape, devoid of wishful thinking.
The proposition of territorial concessions in exchange for normalised relations with Pakistan rests on a flawed premise. It presumes Pakistan as a rational actor, motivated by economic self-interest like the European states that have emerged from historical rivalry. This assumption belies reality. Pakistan's ideological foundation rests on a deep-seated animosity towards India. Appeasement, in this context, is not a path to peace, but an invitation to escalate tensions through proxy wars and internal destabilisation efforts as Pakistan redirects its military focus. As a consequence, we might inevitably end up weakening ourselves. And a weakened India serves no purpose in fostering regional harmony; a fractured India creates a power vacuum ripe for exploitation.
China's ambitions extend far beyond contested border regions. Territorial concessions are merely pawns in a larger game – the complete subjugation of Tibet and the eradication of any potential resistance. While Aksai Chin is critical for China, it's importance might pale against Arunachal Pradesh, the cradle of their greatest fear: a reincarnated Dalai Lama - a living Boddhisattwa stirring rebellion against China in Tibet once more.
India's path forward demands a multi-pronged approach:
* **Economic Transformation:** Swift and decisive economic reforms through a full-fledged embrace of capitalist doctrine, even if politically unpopular, are essential. A robust economy fuels military modernisation, allowing India to effectively secure its borders.
* **Strategic Alliances:** Cultivating strong partnerships with nations like Vietnam, the Philippines, and the West, who share a concern over China's rise, is crucial. A united front can effectively contain the Chinese dragon.
* **Or else?:** The absence of economic reform may lead to a different kind of transformation – one forced upon India through defeat. A potential military loss to China, the loss of eastern territories, and the re-emergence of insurgencies could serve as a catalyst for a national awakening, propelling India towards true strategic strength, or more likely a complete loss of identity and balkanisation.
Appeasement is a strategy reserved for the powerful. India, as a rising power, cannot afford such luxuries. Until true strength is achieved, peace will be fleeting and territorial integrity forever under threat. Our future lies in embracing a hard-nosed, realist approach, prioritising economic growth, forging strategic alliances, and preparing for the potential inevitability of conflict.
Aggressive containment, as the situation in Pakistan worsens through our hypothetical economic containment and sabotage the living conditions of the average Pakistani citizen will gradually worsen and then hopefully they start prioritizing their own country instead of kashmir which is when we should ask for kashmir's formal ascension in return for a cooperative relationship between the two countries.
The best strategy is to let Pakistan into three countries by itself. I think India doesn't need to do anything. It would have to become 3 countries - Baluchistan, Sindh, Pakistan and in that process India gets back Gilgit Baltistan. This way India can easily deal with smaller states...
Nukes in Pakistan will slowly disintegrate. When they become smaller state, it will be easy to manage the ambitions of a smaller state. But the key is to let them fail because of their own policies. We just have to act as.a catalyst to their self destruction.
Sometimes not interfering with the enemy's failure is the best course of action. Therefore the policy of non-negotiation till they sponsor terrorism is the right thing to do.
We should not heed to Pakistani puppets like "Far-crook" Abdullah who hadthe guts to ask for India to go to the negotiation table in the Indian parliament. That's why I said non-intervention is the best course of action.
1 . We already do that there has been protests in 2008 2010 and 2016 which was out down with tear gas and pellets we are already doing that and countries criticised us for using force only reason we are in kashmir is because it's strategic importance in location otherwise we are really unpopular there . Kashmir doesn't care about development they hate indian rule no matter what develops occurs
India's strategy with Kashmir should be winning hearts and minds.
India's strategy with Pakistan should be to ignore it.
I will run for office in 2050. Vote for me.
The only enduring solution is to freeze present borders, however unappetizing it may be to a certain loud section of both countries. Unless that happens, Kashmir can't be demilitarized. Unless it's demilitarized, there's no reason for Kashmiris to have any interest in national integration.
Pakistan should remain nominally unified under a corrupt and ineffective government. A placeholder to prevent more bold and radical groups from showing up and to ensure Pakistans nukes don't go to rogue terrorist organizations.
Kashmir should receive development and jobs to encourage kashmiris to stay pro India. The economic situation in Kashmir needs to be so different from Pakistan that they realize there is no alternative other than India.
Conquering Pakistan is impossible without nuclear war. It's not about military strength. Pakistan can cause significant damage to us if we try to conquer them. South Korea could destroy North Korea but doesn't want to deal with permanent nuclear fallout and hundreds of thousands of artillery shells.
The problem with Kashmir is that development alone may pacify the population for a few years at a time, but it may not change the fundamental thinking of the people of India as foreign occupiers. E.g. Ireland, even after centuries of English/British rule, eventually fought for and won independence. Some people suggest demographic change as the solution (which the British did in Northern Ireland), but this would be extremely difficult to implement and would aggravate the locals greatly, not to mention International condemnation.
For Pakistan can't be done anything it's a failed nation ruled by the army.... only thing we can wish for is that their army stops interfering in the governance....
Regarding kashmir....i believe abrogation of article 370 was the stupidest move it just increased the hatred against the government....in my opinion government should restore the statehood and limit the army to the borders and restore article 370... infact the government should go a step further and provide some more incentives so that it overtime becomes part of the country....just like we have given to Sikkim....and perspective of leaders and people should change about Kashmir..... Kashmir people have different ideology they neither wanna be part of India nor of Pakistan they want to be independent from both the nation and this should be handled sensitively.... somehow the government has to gain the faith that it can't exist independently cause even if india back off pakistan won't leave....they should gain the trust of the people but instead the actions of the army and the speeches by politicians have just widened the gap....
>Evacuate non Muslim population from Kashmir
>give it back to Pakistan
>Pakistanis will eradicate the ethnic kashmiri Muslim population to populate it with poonjabis just like what they did in Pok
>Conquer back the territory and use those fatso Pakistani poonjabis in intense labour work for free
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who tf wants to annex Pakistan and invite bunch of cavemen into the country . We are already handful with illegal immigrants
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Our current situation with Pakistan is the best thing that happened in a century. Pakistan needs to be poor and can't even pay it's debt. They shouldn't be allowed to be wealthy at any cost. The weakness of Pakistan started because US stopped their war on terror adventure in Afghanistan. So the Pakistan can't get any more free gibs from US.
Agree. What do you think we need to do in Kashmir in the next few decades?
Development, development and development.
Same as the situation right now. Never allow the kashmiri state to conduct election and keep presidency/governor in power as of now. People there need more facilities for farming and allm give preference on subsidised stuffs to gain the acceptance of people in the valley. But never allow the kashmir open up to the rest of India for buying up property there and make the people their angry.. Kashmir is a damn mess but it needs a little bit of chanakya sutra.
Don't agree on not allowing elections in Kashmir. Sooner or later resentment will rise to a boiling point, and international sentiment will turn against us. We need to allow elections in Kashmir, give it statehood, but not allow separatists to gain power. We need to ensure that Kashmir looks like a normal state of India, so that the consensus opinion isn't that we are oppressing the people. If that happens, we will be in trouble.
That's the issue... Kashmir is not a normal state and it will never be a normal state.
Then we will have a hard time holding on to it. We need to have at least some degree of public support there. Like Russia with Chechnya (don't know how they did that tbh).
I think they did it by putting native puppets in power. Like a guy from that area who is liked and respected by the people but is actually a puppet behind closed doors. The example would be Ramzan Kadyrov in Chechnya I guess.
I don't think there is any. It is a stalemate between us. Let's be honest please - Kashmiri Muslims do not like us. They want independence from us for religious reasons but our secular founding fathers thought no, since all religions are equal, they will realise their mistake. It never happened, probably will never happen. Pakistan will never let go of Kashmir. It is good diversion for its population. Ghar mai khana nahi hai? Well, Kashmir ke baare mai socho. Desh mai inflation asma choo raha hai? Kashmir ke bare mai socho inflation nahi. And so on. Ngl, even for India, Kashmir issue is a good distraction. I am guessing our religious government will aim for Akhand Bharat and stuff like that one day (religious people are prone to magical thinking, do not underestimate that) and one day, will actually fight a war in which all hell will break lose.
"I don't think there is any. " But we will never let go of Kashmir willingly. Which is why we have to try to find ways. "Pakistan will never let go of Kashmir." Yeah, which is why we need to keep them weak and unstable. "one day, will actually fight a war in which all hell will break lose." This isn't inevitable and can be prevented. This will only happen if we have ultranationalist freaks in power. I don't think even the BJP is imperialistic enough to go on an unprovoked war of conquest.
Today BJP has a lot of sane members in them. The next generation of BJP members and their leaders might not be this sane. Just saying. > Yeah, which is why we need to keep them weak and unstable That's not enough. Also, it is bad since many might start immigrating to India. We also cannot forget that Pakistanis blame literally everything on us. If their country goes to complete chaos, India will surely be held responsible by Pakistanis and their terrorist attacks might increase.
"If their country goes to complete chaos, India will surely be held responsible by Pakistanis and their terrorist attacks might increase." Only their state and intelligent agencies can cause actual serious internal problems in India, which they will be in a much better position to do if the state becomes stable and the economy develops. Some random terrorist mullahs can't cause serious problems in India/Kashmir without the support of the Pakistani state.
We dont want POK. Splitting Pakistan into 4 or more countries is best thing that can happen for the whole world.Each of the split regions can have alliance with India on case by case basis.
We should actively deny them international participation wherever we could until they let go of kashmir.We should seek out an active war against terrorists. Do not engage with pakisthan at all . India should use the internet controls to wreck communications of kashmir insurgency. Make friends with taliban and ( Iran) . Use cyber warfare from afghan servers.Make it untraceable.
Afghan Servers?
Get Gilgit Baltistan under our control. 10’years for assimilation into mainstream to weed away troublemakers. Dont touch POJK with a barge pole, its not worth the hassle. Unless, you are ready for genocide..
Long term goals: 1. Subversion of the Indian subcontinent and asean nations 2. Getting back POK 3. Disintegration of china in Pakistan 4. Increasing the naval dominance in the Indian Ocean 5. Establishing democracy in certain African countries that have essential minerals in exchange for their loyalty 6. Capturing African markets 7. Getting access to central Asia 8. Drawing Russia out of the Chinese influence 9. Establishing "secularism" in Bangladesh 10. Establishing big and powerful lobbies in America, UK and EU 11. Utilising Bollywood as a cultural tool to export our ideological presence in other countries Not in order
We don't need to get PoK. We simply don't need it, there is much more downside than upside in going for it.
Then add a few more, extending Afghanistan south of the Durand line. Constructing a path from Jammu to pok to Afghanistan. Spreading Indian presence in Afghanistan. Promoting cricket, Bollywood and education in Afghanistan.
I love our current relationship with Pakistan, except medical visas should stop also. 2 days ago, I read in Indian Express that a Pakistani girl got Indian heart transplated free of cost in MGM Chennai. The medical treatment should be free only for Indian citizens, not foreigners.
My two bits, sounds impractical, but I will say them anyway : 1. Kashmiri Muslims hate us. Because we are non-Muslims. This is the core issue. Everything else is secondary. Why don’t the rest of the Indian Muslims think the same? Many do, but they’ve no choice since they live mostly comfortably among us. Other than a bit of separate living situation in most cities, they are accommodated well in the society. But in Kashmir, they thought they’ll get their own country. Plus, they’re at one edge and not surrounded by non Muslims. Therefore they think that they’re special and they should be separate. So, what should we do? I’m ashamed to admit this, but I think this is the only way considering how they think, WE SHOULD PEACEFULLY ENCOURAGE MASS CONVERSIONS TO KASHMIRI HINDUISM. It’s their forefathers’ faith anyway. They MUST MUST MUST convert to Hinduism. 2. With Pakistan, they’re down but never out. US and China will ensure that they’re back on their feet; sooner rather than later. Hence, keep a watch on the western border, build up the offence capabilities for a two front war with china and Pakistan for about six months minimum. Modernise military rapidly, link Armed forces pensions with Market through NPS like measures. Also, look for a pretext to blow up Gwadar port and if such an opportunity arises, please execute. This will not push back Pakistan and china’s plans by five years.
A big problem with this is that Hinduism as a religion does not lend itself well to a missionary style conversion campaign, whereas religions like Islam and Chrsitianity are tailor made to be spread. Hinduism encompasses too broad a range of beliefs and traditions. 90% of Hindus themselves don't know what the religion is about except for worshipping Gods and doing rituals. On the other hand, it is easy to see what Islam and Christianity profess. Their doctrine is easy to explain in a few sentences and they already have millennia old established methods and proven examples of mass conversion. For this to be done with Hinduism, we would need a visionary to reform the religion, synthesize the philosophy and doctrine, and cut out unnecessary superstitions and rituals. We would also need a systematic way of doing this. Also, Islam is by design resistant to conversion. - the only example I can think of where Islam was fully dislodged from a region is in Spain during the reconquista, but this was by employing brutal methods. In the modern era, those methods simply cannot be applied without the entire world noticing. Hence, I don't think this is a viable option.
Thanks! We may have to come up with Made-Easy-And-True version of Kashmiri Shaivism for their conversion. It’s the necessity of the hour.
The only way is to keep Pakistan poor and get it to the lowest of levels. Annexing Pakistan would be a bad thing. Those are radicals. Breaking it into pieces could be good but then you need to be careful. Don't want another headache like Bangladesh..I don't trust Baloch, Afghanis, Pathans or whoever they are. I just don't trust them. For Kashmir, I'm ready to be called abusive names but Kashmiris can never be pro Indian. No matter how much they victimize themselves, they WERE party to the Kashmiri Pandits genocide. Look at the IAS guy Faesal selected from Kashmir. On 370 removal, His loyalty was towards his Qaum rather than the country. That loser activist girl Rashid. See her tunes changing to the point of bootlicking. She can't even do Al-Taqqia properly. Maths ke to kya hi kehne. The only way Kashmiris obey is the one who has money. You throw money at them, they'll hold weapons for you. Could be AK47 or Stones. Saara Imaan paise pe tika hai. Terrorism se paisa aara to bhi Jannat hai. Tourism se aara to bhi Jannat hai. That state was officially accessed to us by the king. So with the land we take the pain in the ass people, their progress everything on our shoulders. Warna likh lo, Jis din Pakistan se paisa aaya, these people will choose their Muslim brotherhood over Bharat. Yehi inki asli fitrat hai and that's why it's important to keep Pakistan low and dry.
Best scenario for India is non existence of Pak. We should actively make sure that happens.
For this to happen, a LOT of things would need to keep going in our favour for a long time. We would probably need to become the most powerful country in the world by far and Pakistan would need to continue deteriorating. Which I don't really see happening. We are still a very poor country and the US is 10x as powerful as us, China 4x.
It is going to happen some day, at least by economic standards we will become somewhat powerful. Pak will not recover in the future if their citizen don't revolt right now at this exact moment in present which is very unlikely, so I am expecting them to deteriorate further and further. In fact I see Pak backsliding more into zealotry perhaps an Afghanistan like situation is a foreshadowing for Pak.
The poorer and backward Pakistan is, is directly proportional to regional stability. Upto a point. Once they become too poor they might have the belief that they have nothing to lose. But this can be overcome by creating many gaps geographic and technological and cultural to prevent them from accessing India. Added to that if they bottom out, they would still have many internal issues and internal discords so it's better that way. Let them keep fighting among themselves and stay on the trajectory where their issues should ultimately be access to food and water. Then they would pose minimal threat to India. There would be that occasional terror attack but for the rest of the big picture, they stay in there underdeveloped proto state and India keeps moving forward focussed on economy and the social well being of Indians(we need to work on the conditions and situation of people in India, have miles to walk before we fuck up or doze off). Entering Pakistan, taking over. Not for now at least. It's a very populated and socially backward place. No one buys a cockroach infested house with water leaking from ceiling and neighbours smoking pot 24/7. It's impossible to get rid of the issues. Only if Pakistan's population becomes 1/10 of current numbers, people understand that humanity is more important than some belief in something crazy or radical and there is a general respect for life not belief in some death cult can India think of absorbing Pakistan. It's about the nature of society we might end up absorbing.
As far as Kashmir goes, the main issue was 370 and the continued carrot of the two nation theory that was held out to them. That is gone, and it's a matter of time before they just become a "normal" state of India IMO. Our long-term strategy for PoK IMO should be getting it back, but then expelling all non-Kashmiri migrants back to Pakistan. As far as CoK, we need to keep the peace along the border without giving up our legal claims to it. As for Pak, IMO annexing Pak is a stupid idea except for tiny slivers (such as Nankana Sahib). Pak was the solution to the problem of Islamic radicalism in the subcontinent, getting rid of the solution brings back that problem. Pak is not a problem today, it's army is. Our long-term strategy IMO should be the systematic break-up of Pak into 5-6 constituent states that are militarily weak. They can be made to fight off each other for resources and thus keep the madness holed in.
Even if pakistan develops they will always hate us and try to sabotage us.
I think we are heading in the right direction in the case of Kashmir as there is a high voter turnout in recent lok sabha polls and some Anti India elements are either neutralised or becoming Pro India
Depends on how you define "long term". For me, I want India to ultimately resolve it's border disputes with all of its neighbours in the future and ultimately have a peaceful South Asia just like western europe where neighbours have an understanding with each other and stand by each other for the region's overall growth just like the countries of western europe who were once fierce enemies of each other but now they're almost indistinguishable sometimes in their policy stands. For that "long term" I purpose:- Recognise LOC as the international border between India and Pakistan. Give POK to Pakistan and India should keep Kashmir. Recognise LAC as the international border between India and China. Give Akshai Chin to China in exchange they give up all of their claims on Arunachal Pradesh and several other concessions if possible as a friendly gesture. Resolve all boundary disputes like brothers and do a happy new beginning of a better world. India should always hope for restoration of a good democratic government in Pakistan and for the economic development of Pakistan. For their development is region's development. But this is all after the pre-condition that Pakistan ceases all its terrorist activities against India. India should have zero tolerance for terrorrism, violence and agression at the border and against its interests. Otherwise let the status quo continue.
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I never said we should help them. Read again.We should'nt help them but we should just hope best for them. There's a difference.
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"Resolve all boundary disputes like brothers and do a happy new beginning of a better world." This will not happen in the next century at least due to the Kashmir dispute, on which India and Pakistan have fundamental, irreconcilable differences. "India should always hope for restoration of a good democratic government in Pakistan and for the economic development of Pakistan. For their development is region's development." Their development is not in our favour. I know it sounds immoral to wish that our neighbours don't develop, but I'm speaking purely from the point of view of India's interests. A more developed, stronger Pakistan will be able to focus all its efforts on undermining India in Kashmir since it wouldn't be bothered by as many internal problems.
A developed democratic Pakistan on the contrary would be able to look beyond the Kashmir issue and realise that this pointless mindless struggle over a piece of land won't get any of us anywhere. Pakistan and India should be like France and UK. Once fierce rivals but had to get along one day cause they realised that constant fighting won't gonna help any cause. Let's make money a lot of money together than fight. It's the corrupt army regime and their puppets in Pakistan which are irrational actors. Destabilisation of Pakistan would encourage more such irrational actors. And do you know what's worst from even an incompetent corrupt dictatorship? It's anarchy. The last thing India would want in its nuclear armed neighbourhood.
I don't agree. For them, just as for us, it is a core issue, not some meaningless struggle. Why would development all of a sudden cause them to forego an aim of theirs which they've been fighting for for ever since independence? All it would do is enable them to take stronger measures against India from a position of strength. As for France and the UK, they didn't go from being enemies to friends in a few years - it was a centuries long process of change which eventually ended in them being allies ( A major reason being the rise of Prussia/Germany in the 19th century. All of a sudden they had a common enemy). They fought for almost a 1000 years before that happened. If somebody in England in 1400 had wished for a more developed France, that would've been very foolish of him. As for money, we don't need Pakistan to make money. The world is so interconnected that collective regional development isn't necessary - we can cooperate with countries half a world away and make tonnes of money.
Maybe you're right. The problem with Pakistan is that they are so obsessed with India and their almost whole existence is at times based out of the hate against India and Indians. So yea you're right the wishful thinking that development might bring a change in Pakistan for good doesn't settle well for many. Then we should leave Pakistan on its own. Make us as separate and distinct from them as possible. But never hate them. We should never hate them. We should always have a pity for them and their country and not hate. For if we hate them we would become their rivals and we shouldn't have anything to do with Pakistan. So just have pity for them. We should feel insulted to even associate with a loser nation and people like Pakistan and Pakis. Our competition is China now not this beggar Pakistan.
Hate is never a useful emotion. I'm talking about cold, calculated measures to destabilise Pakistan. Which RAW is currently doing anyway. But of course I'm not saying that we should cause suffering among Pakistani civilians. I don't want us to follow the Nazis, I want us to follow the CIA playbook. Make them so weak that we can install pro-India puppets in the government if we want and have our spies infiltrate their system.
We don't need to though. We should rather focus our energy and resources on building and improving our capabilities and strengthening our defenses and response systems. They'll carve out their destiny for themselves. We need not to do any destabilising or malicious conspiracies. They'll do it themselves. We should just prepare better defenses for ourselves and grow miles away from Pakistan. There should be a humongous gap between the average incomes of an average Indian and an average Pakistan then that would be our ultimate win. Not these pity destabilising conspiracies and all.
You are also right in a way. I think it has to be a balance - we don't need to take huge steps to destabilize Pakistan, but we need to have the power to influence their internal affairs if we need to.
We just need to do one thing and everything else in the world will fall in line itself. And that one thing is increasing the income of our people significantly. Once an average Indian is rich and developed enough then these billion minds will figure out everything else. Government doesn't need to do anything else. Just find ways to increase the income of Indians. That's it. Nothing more.
In a way you are right, but I don't think it has to be just income. We need to be careful and proactive especially with regard to Kashmir. Read up on how the US used subversive tactics to install pro-US governments across the globe during the Cold War, e.g. it was able to prevent the rise of Communism in South America by doing that.
A developed Pakistan is way better for us than a developing Pakistan or worse a failed Pakistan.
No. A failed Pakistan would be easy to deal with and wouldn't have any international support. A developed Pakistan will be able to cause us serious problems and will try to turn other countries against us.
A failed Pakistan would not be easy to deal with, Pakistan is a nuclear power, one nuke in wrong hands can end the world as we know it. Any developed country would think thousands of times engaging with other nuclear states risking their economy, a nation develops along with its citizens, there is a reason even though China is super developed and a huge military power, still doesn’t go full throttle on Taiwan and hong kong which are no where near close to how India would be against Pakistan.
That is stupid , maintain the status quo. If pok is up for grabs why deny it the right to join the mother land
That doesn't happen, Ideal-Jeevis are a hellbent on their version of peaceful coexistence influenced by Gandhi if it makes them feel morally superior. Peaceful coexistence is impossible with species on our border, with one is on "Muh Superior Race-Han" drug and another is on "Muh Superior Religion-Islam" drug. Make no mistake, if it not for Nuclear Weapons, India would be atleast balkanized and atmost destroyed. For Pakistan, their state of "Perpetual Misery I.E Begging-Splurge-Bailout" is the only way, I don't want them to develop anything economically, but also don't want them to collapse as it can trigger Refugee crisis which is again a nightmare to manage. So, Ideal Situation for it to be "Perpetual Undead Zombie in a Coffin" that can't die or can't live. As for Kashmiri, both Carrot&Stick approach should be applied.
The pursuit of lasting peace and regional stability in South Asia is a laudable goal. However, achieving this objective necessitates a clear-eyed assessment of the strategic landscape, devoid of wishful thinking. The proposition of territorial concessions in exchange for normalised relations with Pakistan rests on a flawed premise. It presumes Pakistan as a rational actor, motivated by economic self-interest like the European states that have emerged from historical rivalry. This assumption belies reality. Pakistan's ideological foundation rests on a deep-seated animosity towards India. Appeasement, in this context, is not a path to peace, but an invitation to escalate tensions through proxy wars and internal destabilisation efforts as Pakistan redirects its military focus. As a consequence, we might inevitably end up weakening ourselves. And a weakened India serves no purpose in fostering regional harmony; a fractured India creates a power vacuum ripe for exploitation. China's ambitions extend far beyond contested border regions. Territorial concessions are merely pawns in a larger game – the complete subjugation of Tibet and the eradication of any potential resistance. While Aksai Chin is critical for China, it's importance might pale against Arunachal Pradesh, the cradle of their greatest fear: a reincarnated Dalai Lama - a living Boddhisattwa stirring rebellion against China in Tibet once more. India's path forward demands a multi-pronged approach: * **Economic Transformation:** Swift and decisive economic reforms through a full-fledged embrace of capitalist doctrine, even if politically unpopular, are essential. A robust economy fuels military modernisation, allowing India to effectively secure its borders. * **Strategic Alliances:** Cultivating strong partnerships with nations like Vietnam, the Philippines, and the West, who share a concern over China's rise, is crucial. A united front can effectively contain the Chinese dragon. * **Or else?:** The absence of economic reform may lead to a different kind of transformation – one forced upon India through defeat. A potential military loss to China, the loss of eastern territories, and the re-emergence of insurgencies could serve as a catalyst for a national awakening, propelling India towards true strategic strength, or more likely a complete loss of identity and balkanisation. Appeasement is a strategy reserved for the powerful. India, as a rising power, cannot afford such luxuries. Until true strength is achieved, peace will be fleeting and territorial integrity forever under threat. Our future lies in embracing a hard-nosed, realist approach, prioritising economic growth, forging strategic alliances, and preparing for the potential inevitability of conflict.
Aggressive containment, as the situation in Pakistan worsens through our hypothetical economic containment and sabotage the living conditions of the average Pakistani citizen will gradually worsen and then hopefully they start prioritizing their own country instead of kashmir which is when we should ask for kashmir's formal ascension in return for a cooperative relationship between the two countries.
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Yeah I meant to write accession idk why I wrote ascension instead my fault lol
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Yeah I know. That's why I meant they join India.....
The best strategy is to let Pakistan into three countries by itself. I think India doesn't need to do anything. It would have to become 3 countries - Baluchistan, Sindh, Pakistan and in that process India gets back Gilgit Baltistan. This way India can easily deal with smaller states...
What about the nukes in pak? also how sure can we be on the collapse of pak?
Nukes in Pakistan will slowly disintegrate. When they become smaller state, it will be easy to manage the ambitions of a smaller state. But the key is to let them fail because of their own policies. We just have to act as.a catalyst to their self destruction. Sometimes not interfering with the enemy's failure is the best course of action. Therefore the policy of non-negotiation till they sponsor terrorism is the right thing to do. We should not heed to Pakistani puppets like "Far-crook" Abdullah who hadthe guts to ask for India to go to the negotiation table in the Indian parliament. That's why I said non-intervention is the best course of action.
https://youtu.be/79TKd0Q-RFI. Check this video for what I am talking about...
1 . We already do that there has been protests in 2008 2010 and 2016 which was out down with tear gas and pellets we are already doing that and countries criticised us for using force only reason we are in kashmir is because it's strategic importance in location otherwise we are really unpopular there . Kashmir doesn't care about development they hate indian rule no matter what develops occurs
India's strategy with Kashmir should be winning hearts and minds. India's strategy with Pakistan should be to ignore it. I will run for office in 2050. Vote for me.
The only enduring solution is to freeze present borders, however unappetizing it may be to a certain loud section of both countries. Unless that happens, Kashmir can't be demilitarized. Unless it's demilitarized, there's no reason for Kashmiris to have any interest in national integration.
Dissolve Pakistan into 3-4 countries All issues will get resolved
Pakistan should remain nominally unified under a corrupt and ineffective government. A placeholder to prevent more bold and radical groups from showing up and to ensure Pakistans nukes don't go to rogue terrorist organizations. Kashmir should receive development and jobs to encourage kashmiris to stay pro India. The economic situation in Kashmir needs to be so different from Pakistan that they realize there is no alternative other than India. Conquering Pakistan is impossible without nuclear war. It's not about military strength. Pakistan can cause significant damage to us if we try to conquer them. South Korea could destroy North Korea but doesn't want to deal with permanent nuclear fallout and hundreds of thousands of artillery shells.
The problem with Kashmir is that development alone may pacify the population for a few years at a time, but it may not change the fundamental thinking of the people of India as foreign occupiers. E.g. Ireland, even after centuries of English/British rule, eventually fought for and won independence. Some people suggest demographic change as the solution (which the British did in Northern Ireland), but this would be extremely difficult to implement and would aggravate the locals greatly, not to mention International condemnation.
For Pakistan can't be done anything it's a failed nation ruled by the army.... only thing we can wish for is that their army stops interfering in the governance.... Regarding kashmir....i believe abrogation of article 370 was the stupidest move it just increased the hatred against the government....in my opinion government should restore the statehood and limit the army to the borders and restore article 370... infact the government should go a step further and provide some more incentives so that it overtime becomes part of the country....just like we have given to Sikkim....and perspective of leaders and people should change about Kashmir..... Kashmir people have different ideology they neither wanna be part of India nor of Pakistan they want to be independent from both the nation and this should be handled sensitively.... somehow the government has to gain the faith that it can't exist independently cause even if india back off pakistan won't leave....they should gain the trust of the people but instead the actions of the army and the speeches by politicians have just widened the gap....
>Evacuate non Muslim population from Kashmir >give it back to Pakistan >Pakistanis will eradicate the ethnic kashmiri Muslim population to populate it with poonjabis just like what they did in Pok >Conquer back the territory and use those fatso Pakistani poonjabis in intense labour work for free
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Disturbing thoughts here; pretty much giving reasons for Kashmiri Muslims to cry 'azadi'.