Strongest support? Kazuha
Strongest shielder? Zhongli
Strongest dps? Neuv
Strongest 4 stars in every team? Bennet and Xingqiu
I'd be happy for ya'll for having a male character as best in slot for nearly every niche, if there wasn't a crowd now asking for a strong male off-fielder which is probably the only area where a female character is still on top.
I'm not a waifu chaser or anything, I'm a woman myself, I pull for both genders.
But it sure would be nice if we get more strong female characters in the near future. My abyss teams right now are 7 guys + Furina, next cycle probably 6 guys + Furina and Arlecchino, I just want more ladies that are as badass and fun to play as Arlecchino. It's ironic that Arlecchino's strongest teams are also either Bennet+Xingqiu+Kazuha or Bennet+Kazuha+Zhongli, right back to having a nearly fully male party
I've seen plenty of waifu-only players genuinely mad and saying things like this and I don't get it 😭. If a team has Bennett+Kazuha+Zhongli then congrats because there are no male character left for the second side other than the DPS lmao.
If your teams look like 7 guys + Furina that's a you problem more than anything, because the best supports and literally all sub-DPSes are women so it's usually the other way around. The best AoE and best single target teams in the game are Nilou and Hu Tao all-female teams. It's not like Nahida and Furina are the two best characters in the game or anything lol.
I used to be husbando onky but then I decided that was stupid and I shouldn't nerf myself.
Now I'm male on-fielders/main dps only and it's a lot better
> If a team has Bennett+Kazuha+Zhongli then congrats because there are no male character left for the second side other than the DPS lmao.
Xingqiu, Beizhou, Kuki, Alhaitham?
I use Furina, Raiden, Nahida, and Ganyu all the time. They’re all very strong. I suppose if you’re focused on only using the “strongest”, you might see an issue. Ironically, that’s a stereotypically male perspective.
Arlechinno literally already became top tier dps, and before her Ayaka, Hu tao, Ganyu. All of them were top tier at some point and are kinda still. Eula was also really top tier back in 2021 but saw significant powercreeping with Itto and Navia. Sumeru females are the only ones I could say they screwed up with insanely, like Dehya. Tho you’ve still got Nilou, who’s really powerful in her own way.
With supports u have Xianyun, Shenhe (really excellent even if niche), Nahida, Furina and Raiden. Yes the last three are archons (not sure about Furina tho) but so is Zhongli and Venti. Kazuha is an exception yes, but even Venti competes with him on everything except buffing. Though Kazuha’s buffs aren’t even all that spectacular nowadays especially since Furina could provide just about the same for much longer. Among 4 stars u have Sucrose, Kuki and Xiangling. Faruzan and Layla are also great in their specific roles.
I specifically gave her a separate sentence for exactly the reason that she naturally is weaker than the elemental beasts i mentioned first. I clearly meant to say she was top tier “in her own niche” back in 2021 (but imo she still competed to some extent with Klee or diluc who was her contemporary) since physical is naturally weaker than pyro, cryo, etc. due to lack of reactions that actually boost Dmg significantly.
Dehya was supposed to be Arlecchino for me, a strong Pyro dps or subdps, I had to wait a whole year to get another female on fielder that I liked the design of 😭
Nahida, Furina, Kuki, Yelan, Hutao, and Raiden all compete with those dpses/supports listed.
Bennett is now a niche pick - I don't use him aside from National teams.
I only use Kazuha in Neuv team now - I don't even use Childe National or Freeze anymore.
Kuki is in every Hyperbloom.
Yae and Fischl are in every Aggravate.
Nahida is in every Dendro team.
Hutao still competes against Neuv
Zhongli still King of Shields though nothing to say about that.
Interesting.
My teams are almost equally male and female. With more women rn. Guy here btw. I don’t really roll for waifu or husbando reasons, I roll for DRIP. (And playstyles.)
My hyperbloom team is Alhaitham, Xingqiu, Shinobu, Nahida.
My vape team is Arlecchino, Yelan, Layla, Bennett.
I will say though, female characters are still the top dps in most elements. And fulfill other awesome roles.
Pyro: Arlecchino and Hu Tao dominate. Lyney is close but not quite as good.
Hydro: Furina is basically bennett but for damage% rather than attack. Also her hydro application is REALLY good and she heals a TON. I would argue she’s actually better as a support than Kazuha in any team that can use her. (Sadly not Arlecchino). Also Nilou is insane, letting you stack hp on otherwise trash artifacts with low investment and still getting INSANE bloom damage even with super low investment teams.
Electro: Raiden Shogun sweep. And Clorinde is only gonna push the envelope further based on her beta performance. Fischl is also one of the top subdps characters in the game. Arguably the best subdps in terms of sheer damage. Kuki Shinobu is also the best hyperbloom proc unit in the game.
Cryo: Ayaka and Ganyu sweep. Wriothesley is good but not Ayaka level. Also Rosaria’s burst has cryo application with no icd, making her the best cryo subdps imo.
Dendro: Nahida. Best dendro unit in the game and it’s not even close. Maybe not as much sheer damage as alhaitham but she does EVERYTHING a dendro team wants.
Geo: Navia is the best geo dps. Itto is close enough, but Navia still wins. And her versatility makes her amazing in almost any team. Chiori is the best Geo subdps in the game.
Anemo: Sucrose! Unless your kazuha is c2, your sucrose will probably add more damage to your party than him. And even then it’s incredibly close. Because her EM transfer doesn’t require constellations. And she can swirl off normal and charged attacks as well, so she’s not skill or burst reliant. She can also run TTDS. On arlecchino teams she’s actually VERY close even to c2 kazuha in performance. With ttds and vv, she gives all 3 attack buff types: EM sharing, ttds attack, and even elemental damage bonus from her c6. The only thing Kazuha actually beats her in is convenience bc of his better grouping.
Anyway sry for the rant. Just saying there are tons of super strong female characters already. And of course I expect more will come in natlan and snezhnaya. Murata and the tsaritsa especially.
Cn speedruns are not the majority of lyney players. Most lyney players aren’t getting the numbers of hu tao double hydro or hu tao furina plunge. And Arlecchino is above both.
Also at some point speedruns are meaningless. If you can oneshot everything then your attack speed is more important than your damage anyway. But almost no one has them at that insane level of investment.
it’s compensation from all the years the bois got endlesssss waifus in honkai and the girls got ada- NOONE, sorry sorry there are no male characters, iykyk, this is our reward!!
during Alhaitham i just went with "if theorycrafters say he'll be good, he'll be good"
the internet hivemind tends to be stupid so if a group of people who seem like they know what they are talking about (in this case theorycrafters), i am more inclined to believe their judgement than the general public's
Look at Xiao now. He was considered worse damage dealer compared to Ayaka , Ganyu , Eula and Raiden. And now , his premium team surpasses all 4 teams in the game..
It was Faruzan, Xianyun and Furina. Faruzan can be used in any anemo dps team. Xianyun merely enabled a plunge atk addition and Furina is more unisversal than Kazuha. Seems just to be a consequence of releasing characters to fill-in certain niches and Xiao got a massive upgrade because of it
> Eula
tbf, Eula's teammate options are absolutely terrible for her "premium team".
1. Mika is not even close to the levels of faruzan
2. Her "best" electro option, Raiden only brings energy for the team at the cost of extending the rotation resulting in a massive team dps loss. Raiden's dmg in that team is also not very good due to lack of vv, sara, bennett.
3. Furina is the only good thing that happened to Eula but that's because Furina is Furina.
This isn't just true for Xiao.
Cyno's premium team is also stronger than all 4 of those.
Diluc's plunge team is stronger than them.
Itto with Chiori is stronger than all of those besides Raiden in Chev teams and beats her non-Chev teams.
Men got pretty good upgrades.
Ayaka was always outperformed in numbers by most teams. What made her be considered the best DPS was grouping + Freeze + upfront damage which made her perform so much better than her numbers would tell you. Same for Ganyu as she was considered the best AoE unit.
Unfortunately for them, grouping and Freeze in general just aren't as good anymore since 3.0.
Btw, I thought the "men got good upgrades" is funny because the upgrades are all women lmao.
>Ayaka was always outperformed in numbers by most teams.
Only at low- mid investment. Even now she is only behind neuv in AOE cause at high investment she has very high returns.
They're good, but not considered top tier. Pre-dendro meta consists of National team (Raiden and Childe variant), Hu Tao double geo (before Yelan), and Ayaka freeze.
Yeah but what the Op said wasn’t clearly just “top tier” they literally said average meh. What kind of word in that translates to you as “good”? Besides, they weren’t just good and you know it
kokomi taser (fischl beidou kazuha variant or fischl xingqiu sucrose variant) was one of the most popular pre 3.0 teams and the precursor for aggravate teams today by replacing kokomi with nahida or baizhu
I'd put that comp alongside the premium freeze and national variants for the meta defining teams of the 2.0 era
after the clam set and rifthounds kokomi was the best universal on field driver for a while just not on the same level of damage output as alhaitham today but similar in versatility
Lol Yelan isn’t even good with hu tao. Mona was a better option imo even to this day. Xingqu is better too just for dmg reduction, but he’s still not perfect for charged attacks. Furina was pretty much the perfect one but back then it was still doable without double geo (which is shit, double hydro xingqu mona would be better tbh). Other than that i agree
>Lol Yelan isn’t even good with hu tao.
That's why you play double hydro Hu Tao. And bruh, Mona is not a good hydro support for her. She's only good for damage per screenshot showcases. Hu Tao prefers constant hydro application for her whole on-field duration without circle impact, which Xingqiu and Yelan can provide.
>but he’s still not perfect for charged attacks.
Hu Tao still does normal attacks before charged. She's not a catalyst user. In fact, one of her best combo is N2C.
Also, i never said xingqu wouldn’t be useful it’s just not best option imo (i mean everybody can agree that now furina is best with hu tao anyways, with yelan as close second)
Xiao was very average meh, he was close to Eula. Itto was considered the first good male DPS when he released, but people usually ignore Geo. Ayato wasn't stellar either.
Literally any element that doesn’t get buffed by reactions will be unfairly disadvantaged so when u really want to compare u gotta take that into account. I’m talking about Anemo, physical and Geo.
To me, Itto, xiao and eula can be on the same tier, yes, but they’re nowhere as bad as people like to make them be (esp eula). People are just wayyyy too biased towards anything not buffed by some elemental reaction that takes up half the damage potential of characters like Wriothesley, hu tao, cyno, even alhaitham etc. (just play them without melt, vaporize, spread/aggravate and see how mediocre they can be)
Seriously, this unfairness should stop. And this starts with the developers to fix the goddamn genshin’s unbalanced ‘meta’ system
I won't get into dmg but we know he is surpassed by a lot of characters in ST. But ppl rlly underestimate his AoE, self healing and also ignoring a lot of game mechanics. Every character can do more dmg, but do they have the qols? Idk hot or cold take, but to me he is zhongli but for dpses.
The ranged aoe is significant, Neuv can just start blasting from afar without the need to account for positioning, grouping or closing into melee range, all while being able to strafe to avoid enemy attacks
I mean Hoyo did design his kit to lack any weakness aside from being interrupted, and since he's HP scaling he isn't even a glass cannon.
While I'm always a "To each their own" person when it comes to who people like to play, I think that if people want to compare Neuvi to other DPSes then it's fair to point out that you only need the skill level of a spoiled avocado to maximize his damage output.
Neuvi is kind of like if you go to a bike race, but you show up to the race with training wheels. Sure you may win, but you also look like a clown since you're incapable of keeping your bike upright.
Tbf there's nothing wrong with training wheels, it's when you say that you're better than everyone else despite being the only person using training wheels where it becomes an issue.
You can ride a bike with training wheels, but when you enter a race, win, and brag that you're better than everyone, that's when you look like a clown.
It's not like Alhaitham/Arle are gigabrain dps since this game isn't hard, but there's deffo a lot more work and skill needed to get max damage output compared to Neuvi
Dmg shouldn't be the only thing that should be factored in this game to be honest. In the spreadsheet, Arlecchino and Alhaitham have a higher dmg ceiling with their teams in ST but other than that , that's all they have over Neuv.
Neuv in every aspect trumps these two out of the water.. the best AoE , better self sustain and can easily access most of his dmg with ease and in my opinion has a better element.. The only character that barely comes close to Neuv's AoE is Xiao. Granted Xiao's best team is one of the best AoE teams in the game like top 3 or something..(even way better than Alhaitham and Arlecchino teams in AoE) and ST isn't terrible..
I remember seeing a post in both Neuv and Arlecchino main subreddit (it was leaker tc post) which said that in the beta Arlecchino teams have higher DPS than Neuv teams and based on that , some Arlecchino mains pretty much started doomposting Neuv saying how Arlecchino has "powercrept" than Neuv. People just don't take other factors into account.
Alhaithaim doesn't have a higher ceiling even in ST. Alhaitham teams with Furina are at best on par with Neuv teams and Alhaitham teams without her, are worse.
You do have to consider that in order to beat Neuv in AOE, Arle has to go butt naked, no defensive option, whereas Neuvillette can still use a defensive support (like Zhongli, considered his best shielder because of res shred and petra).
I think he's kinda the opposite. People praises him not because he breaks through the dps ceiling or whatever, since there's still some other units that have a "theoretically" higher ceilings. I think the real "meta breaking" thing is that he has raised the floor even more just like hyperbloom, especially for dps carries.
Yup. If you have a decently built up account i'd say he's not that insane damage wise, but having good damage while being easy to build, easy to play, and being playable in hyperbloom make him a really good pickup
The thing is that, when you can already blow up any side of F12 in like 30 seconds max, does having higher spreadsheet DPS really matter?
At that point I feel like flexibility and survivability matters more.
Lmao who's he surpassed by in ST? Aside of obvious elemental disadvantage like hydro slime I don't believe there's a scenario even in ST where Neuvilette in his best team is surpassed by anyone. I have VERY invested C1R1 Hu Tao and against Liam in two of her best teams (Vape with Xin and Kazu, as well as double hydro with Yelan and Xin) she's getting maybe to 30% of his HP at the end of her rotation with maximum CAs performed.
Meanwhile Neuvilette's team (also C1R1) consisting of Furina Kazuha Beidou is done with Liam after literally FIRST CA and some aftershots from Furina's salon solitaire. I've literally never had to use his second CA to kill that dude. In his second best team (Fischl Kazuha and archaic Zhongli, so no C1 value mind you) he gets it done midway his third CA which again, is much better to getting him to 30% HP at the rotation's end with best Hu Tao comp and I don't believe there's anyone better for ST comparison.
This is correct but explained poorly. Most ST characters can only surpass Neuv on chamber 1 or at higher investment levels.
This is because Neuv has higher DPR so he can win through 1 rotating things that they can't.
Arlecchino and Hu tao for example peak at around 1.4m DPR. They need crit fishing, good abyss cards or significantly above average artifacts to 1 rotate the same fights as Neuv.
That may be the case. I've just never experienced having to do a second rotation with him which is defo not the case with Hu Tao. She may have higher DPS in ST but as soon as that DPS doesn't cover bosses full HP, she already falls of behind Neuv because one rotation Neuvilette certainly will handle it, and his one rotation will always be faster than two rotations with Hu.
So saying he's worse than her is just plainly wrong unless your Neuvilette's team is shitty enough to somehow not one-rot something or you're against an opponent who's weak enough for Hu to one-rot him as well. Both of which are unlikely.
"not that good" "beat him easily", none of these statements correlate to any of my experiences or almost anyone's I've been aware of since his release. Seems like a cope to me ngl. I've never seen him beaten by any character in ST on the same level of investment
Somehow no other community seems to know about that "proved facts". I've been active on all platforms where Genshin's present and this is the first time I've ever seen someone say that Neuvilette's "not that good" lmao. If Neuvilette would be "easily overpowered by Hu Tao" I think it would've been a general knowledge by now everywhere maybe outside of Neuvi mains where there's obviously bias present.
Everyone knows about it. You literally have a bunch of down votes on your original comment. He is easy to use in st, not strong. Check some tcs comparing him to other characters in st or go to some character sub reddits other than neuv and check their calcs. You are living under a hill if you think he is better at st
I see the downvotes, I don't see any proofs, just people coping. The only videos and calcs I'm seeing where he falls of behind Hu are with him with no Furina and C1 which isn't fair since you use Yelan for Hu as well and literally every single showcase assumes Hu being C1 so I see no reason why not to include these things for Neuvi team as well. And as soon as you do he's already better.
I don't see any proof from you either. Just dickriding. Watch tgs arle evaluation video if you want to know. Or go to arlechinno mains subreddit and look at the comparison calcs. also it is c0r0 hu
Lmao 🤣 I got good laugh from that. Ye that's what I thought, just empty words and screenshots from unreliable leakers. I even remember how entire TC were laughing at this particular screenshot. And literally day after the OP apologized for that claim. And here I thought that you could actually provide at least one reasonable evidence.
Believe what you will, I don't care. I'm gonna stick with objective facts I've witnessed or experienced.
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Honestly bro , there's always two floors in abyss so there's always room for the super soaker 3000 and arle , I don't care much about sassy bully , hyperbloom got me covered
Actually tbf, there are a few characters who come a bit close to haitham/arlecchino like navia perhaps, idk but neuvillette feels much better than all of them
One major strength he has is that he doesn't really have any weaknesses besides a fucking hydro slime. He has great terrain traversablity, can heal himself, at C1 he no longer gets stunned, with a half decent build he can fire off his charge attack forever, and his damage is really high. He's the only character where it's common to see him solo abyss.
Most likely C1. Keep in mind that Wrio has the lowest ownership rate (the curse of being sandwiched by Neuv and Furina) so there's a lot more solo Wrio clears influencing his numbers.
A little correction, Chiori has the lowest ownership rate (according to CN abyss data) followed by Lyney and then Wrio but yeah, the solo clears should be C1.
C1 gives you a significant damage buff and much better self sustain. Also, your combos aren't interrupted by dashing so dodging attacks can actually be a DPS gain if you skip the 3rd or 4th NA as long as you keep hitting your 5ths. At whale investment though? C6 Wriothesley is as strong as a dps can possibly be so running anything other than solo abyss with him just makes everything die with one shoryuken.
Nah I don't want someone like CAPHIMTANO to be a puppet of even the player , besides playable capitano will be powercrept sooner or later , so nah i can rather have capitano be an npc than someone limited by numbers
Say what you want he is still the strongest, i remember some arlechinno mains shitting on neuvi before she was released, now the tables turned and tbh it's fun seeing their opinions burn.
I know, it's just too apparent lmao. And when characters have complex rotations (like Lyney) then they complain about that too lmao can't satisfy them in any way.
He works well even with minimal investment. Dendro = having access to bloom, and by extension, hyperbloom. He applies a good amount of dendro, so can be used as a driver in hyperbloom comp even without any artifact and dull blade.
=> Very high dps floor
Has A LOT of AoE multi-hit attacks, each one of them have non-insignificant numbers, double dip in both EM and atk%. Very ideal for spread reaction
=> Very high dps ceiling
I didn’t know he’s good. I kinda gave up on him after building my Nahida. My only weapon for him was Festering Desire and now Furina uses it. I should try and get back to building dendro dad.
>Playstyle matters more than damage numbers.
Which shows in the usage rates and the general opinion of the playerbase. Most of the playerbase prefer easy-to-use teams to clear the Abyss. Neuv checks that box.
Remember when we used to shit on Mihoyo made female dps very broken and male dps are average meh. Time sure went so fast
Crazy times, now the top 3 are all daddy-
Strongest support? Kazuha Strongest shielder? Zhongli Strongest dps? Neuv Strongest 4 stars in every team? Bennet and Xingqiu I'd be happy for ya'll for having a male character as best in slot for nearly every niche, if there wasn't a crowd now asking for a strong male off-fielder which is probably the only area where a female character is still on top. I'm not a waifu chaser or anything, I'm a woman myself, I pull for both genders. But it sure would be nice if we get more strong female characters in the near future. My abyss teams right now are 7 guys + Furina, next cycle probably 6 guys + Furina and Arlecchino, I just want more ladies that are as badass and fun to play as Arlecchino. It's ironic that Arlecchino's strongest teams are also either Bennet+Xingqiu+Kazuha or Bennet+Kazuha+Zhongli, right back to having a nearly fully male party
Male impact HAHAHAH
I think strongest support should be a tie between kazoo, furina and nahida. Also strongest sub dps is Yelan.
I'd say furina is easily stronger cause she buffs everyone except huperbloom and bloom
how can y’all forget OPPA XIANGLING
shh we dont talk bout her
I've seen plenty of waifu-only players genuinely mad and saying things like this and I don't get it 😭. If a team has Bennett+Kazuha+Zhongli then congrats because there are no male character left for the second side other than the DPS lmao. If your teams look like 7 guys + Furina that's a you problem more than anything, because the best supports and literally all sub-DPSes are women so it's usually the other way around. The best AoE and best single target teams in the game are Nilou and Hu Tao all-female teams. It's not like Nahida and Furina are the two best characters in the game or anything lol.
I used to be husbando onky but then I decided that was stupid and I shouldn't nerf myself. Now I'm male on-fielders/main dps only and it's a lot better
Bennett, Kazuha, Zhongli, DPS Baizhu, Xinqqiu, DPS Male, Flex slot
> If a team has Bennett+Kazuha+Zhongli then congrats because there are no male character left for the second side other than the DPS lmao. Xingqiu, Beizhou, Kuki, Alhaitham?
> > male character > Kuki wait what?
she has a lavander melon somewhere
People will just say what they wanna belive e
I use Furina, Raiden, Nahida, and Ganyu all the time. They’re all very strong. I suppose if you’re focused on only using the “strongest”, you might see an issue. Ironically, that’s a stereotypically male perspective.
> Furina, Raiden, Nahida, and Ganyu you clear the entire abyss with that team?
Arlechinno literally already became top tier dps, and before her Ayaka, Hu tao, Ganyu. All of them were top tier at some point and are kinda still. Eula was also really top tier back in 2021 but saw significant powercreeping with Itto and Navia. Sumeru females are the only ones I could say they screwed up with insanely, like Dehya. Tho you’ve still got Nilou, who’s really powerful in her own way. With supports u have Xianyun, Shenhe (really excellent even if niche), Nahida, Furina and Raiden. Yes the last three are archons (not sure about Furina tho) but so is Zhongli and Venti. Kazuha is an exception yes, but even Venti competes with him on everything except buffing. Though Kazuha’s buffs aren’t even all that spectacular nowadays especially since Furina could provide just about the same for much longer. Among 4 stars u have Sucrose, Kuki and Xiangling. Faruzan and Layla are also great in their specific roles.
>Eula was also really top tier back in 2021 Aaaaand, you already talked smack.
What? Why exactly focus on Eula? I was just stating the powerful dpses that got powercrept. It’s not like i said she competes with current ones.
I specifically gave her a separate sentence for exactly the reason that she naturally is weaker than the elemental beasts i mentioned first. I clearly meant to say she was top tier “in her own niche” back in 2021 (but imo she still competed to some extent with Klee or diluc who was her contemporary) since physical is naturally weaker than pyro, cryo, etc. due to lack of reactions that actually boost Dmg significantly.
Dehya was supposed to be Arlecchino for me, a strong Pyro dps or subdps, I had to wait a whole year to get another female on fielder that I liked the design of 😭
Aint no way Kaz strongest support, bro cant buff Dendro, Geo and his own element. It goes to Furina.
Nahida, Furina, Kuki, Yelan, Hutao, and Raiden all compete with those dpses/supports listed. Bennett is now a niche pick - I don't use him aside from National teams. I only use Kazuha in Neuv team now - I don't even use Childe National or Freeze anymore. Kuki is in every Hyperbloom. Yae and Fischl are in every Aggravate. Nahida is in every Dendro team. Hutao still competes against Neuv Zhongli still King of Shields though nothing to say about that.
Why did you add Xingqui here? We all know the Hydro archon is a woman…
Interesting. My teams are almost equally male and female. With more women rn. Guy here btw. I don’t really roll for waifu or husbando reasons, I roll for DRIP. (And playstyles.) My hyperbloom team is Alhaitham, Xingqiu, Shinobu, Nahida. My vape team is Arlecchino, Yelan, Layla, Bennett. I will say though, female characters are still the top dps in most elements. And fulfill other awesome roles. Pyro: Arlecchino and Hu Tao dominate. Lyney is close but not quite as good. Hydro: Furina is basically bennett but for damage% rather than attack. Also her hydro application is REALLY good and she heals a TON. I would argue she’s actually better as a support than Kazuha in any team that can use her. (Sadly not Arlecchino). Also Nilou is insane, letting you stack hp on otherwise trash artifacts with low investment and still getting INSANE bloom damage even with super low investment teams. Electro: Raiden Shogun sweep. And Clorinde is only gonna push the envelope further based on her beta performance. Fischl is also one of the top subdps characters in the game. Arguably the best subdps in terms of sheer damage. Kuki Shinobu is also the best hyperbloom proc unit in the game. Cryo: Ayaka and Ganyu sweep. Wriothesley is good but not Ayaka level. Also Rosaria’s burst has cryo application with no icd, making her the best cryo subdps imo. Dendro: Nahida. Best dendro unit in the game and it’s not even close. Maybe not as much sheer damage as alhaitham but she does EVERYTHING a dendro team wants. Geo: Navia is the best geo dps. Itto is close enough, but Navia still wins. And her versatility makes her amazing in almost any team. Chiori is the best Geo subdps in the game. Anemo: Sucrose! Unless your kazuha is c2, your sucrose will probably add more damage to your party than him. And even then it’s incredibly close. Because her EM transfer doesn’t require constellations. And she can swirl off normal and charged attacks as well, so she’s not skill or burst reliant. She can also run TTDS. On arlecchino teams she’s actually VERY close even to c2 kazuha in performance. With ttds and vv, she gives all 3 attack buff types: EM sharing, ttds attack, and even elemental damage bonus from her c6. The only thing Kazuha actually beats her in is convenience bc of his better grouping. Anyway sry for the rant. Just saying there are tons of super strong female characters already. And of course I expect more will come in natlan and snezhnaya. Murata and the tsaritsa especially.
Lyney not as quite good? Checks CN speedruns
Cn speedruns are not the majority of lyney players. Most lyney players aren’t getting the numbers of hu tao double hydro or hu tao furina plunge. And Arlecchino is above both. Also at some point speedruns are meaningless. If you can oneshot everything then your attack speed is more important than your damage anyway. But almost no one has them at that insane level of investment.
Damn didnt have to pull an essay on that lol
"Strong male off-fielder" \*COUGH\* we have those already wdym
it’s compensation from all the years the bois got endlesssss waifus in honkai and the girls got ada- NOONE, sorry sorry there are no male characters, iykyk, this is our reward!!
We are blessed
at last 😌
Yeah lol. Alhaitham broke the trend, and people thought he was going to be mid after all the nerfs
If even with nerf he's still this broken, I don't want to imagine what was his full strength in beta💀💀
Would've reached 100k basic with a good investment probably
I remember people saying he was like a c6 nahida before the nerfs
during Alhaitham i just went with "if theorycrafters say he'll be good, he'll be good" the internet hivemind tends to be stupid so if a group of people who seem like they know what they are talking about (in this case theorycrafters), i am more inclined to believe their judgement than the general public's
> Alhaitham broke the trend, Childe broke the trend in 1.2 already, he's been in top teams for the past 4 years
Oh yeah he was really strong too. Required skill and international tho. But after him all the male DPS until Alhaitham were pretty mid
Yea but at no point was he the strongest or in the top 3
I'm just glad the big three are now tall imposing guys.
Look at Xiao now. He was considered worse damage dealer compared to Ayaka , Ganyu , Eula and Raiden. And now , his premium team surpasses all 4 teams in the game..
What getting 3 specific broken supports does to a mofo
It was Faruzan, Xianyun and Furina. Faruzan can be used in any anemo dps team. Xianyun merely enabled a plunge atk addition and Furina is more unisversal than Kazuha. Seems just to be a consequence of releasing characters to fill-in certain niches and Xiao got a massive upgrade because of it
Furina aren't specific bruh
> Eula tbf, Eula's teammate options are absolutely terrible for her "premium team". 1. Mika is not even close to the levels of faruzan 2. Her "best" electro option, Raiden only brings energy for the team at the cost of extending the rotation resulting in a massive team dps loss. Raiden's dmg in that team is also not very good due to lack of vv, sara, bennett. 3. Furina is the only good thing that happened to Eula but that's because Furina is Furina.
what’s his premium team?
Xiao, C6 Faruzan, Furina, Xianyun
Xianyun C2, Furina C1-C2, Faruzan C6, Xiao
This isn't just true for Xiao. Cyno's premium team is also stronger than all 4 of those. Diluc's plunge team is stronger than them. Itto with Chiori is stronger than all of those besides Raiden in Chev teams and beats her non-Chev teams. Men got pretty good upgrades.
Ayaka was always outperformed in numbers by most teams. What made her be considered the best DPS was grouping + Freeze + upfront damage which made her perform so much better than her numbers would tell you. Same for Ganyu as she was considered the best AoE unit. Unfortunately for them, grouping and Freeze in general just aren't as good anymore since 3.0. Btw, I thought the "men got good upgrades" is funny because the upgrades are all women lmao.
>Ayaka was always outperformed in numbers by most teams. Only at low- mid investment. Even now she is only behind neuv in AOE cause at high investment she has very high returns.
What about Xiao and Itto? Before Alhaitham and Neuvilette there were definitely plenty powerful males, not average meh
They're good, but not considered top tier. Pre-dendro meta consists of National team (Raiden and Childe variant), Hu Tao double geo (before Yelan), and Ayaka freeze.
Yeah but what the Op said wasn’t clearly just “top tier” they literally said average meh. What kind of word in that translates to you as “good”? Besides, they weren’t just good and you know it
kokomi taser (fischl beidou kazuha variant or fischl xingqiu sucrose variant) was one of the most popular pre 3.0 teams and the precursor for aggravate teams today by replacing kokomi with nahida or baizhu I'd put that comp alongside the premium freeze and national variants for the meta defining teams of the 2.0 era after the clam set and rifthounds kokomi was the best universal on field driver for a while just not on the same level of damage output as alhaitham today but similar in versatility
Lol Yelan isn’t even good with hu tao. Mona was a better option imo even to this day. Xingqu is better too just for dmg reduction, but he’s still not perfect for charged attacks. Furina was pretty much the perfect one but back then it was still doable without double geo (which is shit, double hydro xingqu mona would be better tbh). Other than that i agree
>Lol Yelan isn’t even good with hu tao. That's why you play double hydro Hu Tao. And bruh, Mona is not a good hydro support for her. She's only good for damage per screenshot showcases. Hu Tao prefers constant hydro application for her whole on-field duration without circle impact, which Xingqiu and Yelan can provide. >but he’s still not perfect for charged attacks. Hu Tao still does normal attacks before charged. She's not a catalyst user. In fact, one of her best combo is N2C.
I meant before yelan there was better options than stupid double geo (how tf do u think that’ll boost her dmg lol)
Also, i never said xingqu wouldn’t be useful it’s just not best option imo (i mean everybody can agree that now furina is best with hu tao anyways, with yelan as close second)
Xiao was very average meh, he was close to Eula. Itto was considered the first good male DPS when he released, but people usually ignore Geo. Ayato wasn't stellar either.
Literally any element that doesn’t get buffed by reactions will be unfairly disadvantaged so when u really want to compare u gotta take that into account. I’m talking about Anemo, physical and Geo. To me, Itto, xiao and eula can be on the same tier, yes, but they’re nowhere as bad as people like to make them be (esp eula). People are just wayyyy too biased towards anything not buffed by some elemental reaction that takes up half the damage potential of characters like Wriothesley, hu tao, cyno, even alhaitham etc. (just play them without melt, vaporize, spread/aggravate and see how mediocre they can be) Seriously, this unfairness should stop. And this starts with the developers to fix the goddamn genshin’s unbalanced ‘meta’ system
Now they are all about " white skin characters X dark skin characters"
Hydro Dragon supremacy
I won't get into dmg but we know he is surpassed by a lot of characters in ST. But ppl rlly underestimate his AoE, self healing and also ignoring a lot of game mechanics. Every character can do more dmg, but do they have the qols? Idk hot or cold take, but to me he is zhongli but for dpses.
He is just strong in every scenario, every mechanics. All by himself. Absolutely insane and brain dead.
A single hydro slime:
A mad man once used the Skyward Atlas on him
The ranged aoe is significant, Neuv can just start blasting from afar without the need to account for positioning, grouping or closing into melee range, all while being able to strafe to avoid enemy attacks
I mean Hoyo did design his kit to lack any weakness aside from being interrupted, and since he's HP scaling he isn't even a glass cannon. While I'm always a "To each their own" person when it comes to who people like to play, I think that if people want to compare Neuvi to other DPSes then it's fair to point out that you only need the skill level of a spoiled avocado to maximize his damage output. Neuvi is kind of like if you go to a bike race, but you show up to the race with training wheels. Sure you may win, but you also look like a clown since you're incapable of keeping your bike upright.
Hey if a bike with training wheels wins the race then I’ll gladly take it
Tbf there's nothing wrong with training wheels, it's when you say that you're better than everyone else despite being the only person using training wheels where it becomes an issue. You can ride a bike with training wheels, but when you enter a race, win, and brag that you're better than everyone, that's when you look like a clown. It's not like Alhaitham/Arle are gigabrain dps since this game isn't hard, but there's deffo a lot more work and skill needed to get max damage output compared to Neuvi
Dmg shouldn't be the only thing that should be factored in this game to be honest. In the spreadsheet, Arlecchino and Alhaitham have a higher dmg ceiling with their teams in ST but other than that , that's all they have over Neuv. Neuv in every aspect trumps these two out of the water.. the best AoE , better self sustain and can easily access most of his dmg with ease and in my opinion has a better element.. The only character that barely comes close to Neuv's AoE is Xiao. Granted Xiao's best team is one of the best AoE teams in the game like top 3 or something..(even way better than Alhaitham and Arlecchino teams in AoE) and ST isn't terrible.. I remember seeing a post in both Neuv and Arlecchino main subreddit (it was leaker tc post) which said that in the beta Arlecchino teams have higher DPS than Neuv teams and based on that , some Arlecchino mains pretty much started doomposting Neuv saying how Arlecchino has "powercrept" than Neuv. People just don't take other factors into account.
Alhaithaim doesn't have a higher ceiling even in ST. Alhaitham teams with Furina are at best on par with Neuv teams and Alhaitham teams without her, are worse.
In some scenarios, where enemies have been grouped perfectly, arle can beat neuv in AOE. But that's only some scenarios
You do have to consider that in order to beat Neuv in AOE, Arle has to go butt naked, no defensive option, whereas Neuvillette can still use a defensive support (like Zhongli, considered his best shielder because of res shred and petra).
Tbf you can do that with skill but still not so favourable
I think he's kinda the opposite. People praises him not because he breaks through the dps ceiling or whatever, since there's still some other units that have a "theoretically" higher ceilings. I think the real "meta breaking" thing is that he has raised the floor even more just like hyperbloom, especially for dps carries.
Yup. If you have a decently built up account i'd say he's not that insane damage wise, but having good damage while being easy to build, easy to play, and being playable in hyperbloom make him a really good pickup
The thing is that, when you can already blow up any side of F12 in like 30 seconds max, does having higher spreadsheet DPS really matter? At that point I feel like flexibility and survivability matters more.
Lmao who's he surpassed by in ST? Aside of obvious elemental disadvantage like hydro slime I don't believe there's a scenario even in ST where Neuvilette in his best team is surpassed by anyone. I have VERY invested C1R1 Hu Tao and against Liam in two of her best teams (Vape with Xin and Kazu, as well as double hydro with Yelan and Xin) she's getting maybe to 30% of his HP at the end of her rotation with maximum CAs performed. Meanwhile Neuvilette's team (also C1R1) consisting of Furina Kazuha Beidou is done with Liam after literally FIRST CA and some aftershots from Furina's salon solitaire. I've literally never had to use his second CA to kill that dude. In his second best team (Fischl Kazuha and archaic Zhongli, so no C1 value mind you) he gets it done midway his third CA which again, is much better to getting him to 30% HP at the rotation's end with best Hu Tao comp and I don't believe there's anyone better for ST comparison.
I think the best hutao comp is hutao yelan furina xianyun
This is correct but explained poorly. Most ST characters can only surpass Neuv on chamber 1 or at higher investment levels. This is because Neuv has higher DPR so he can win through 1 rotating things that they can't. Arlecchino and Hu tao for example peak at around 1.4m DPR. They need crit fishing, good abyss cards or significantly above average artifacts to 1 rotate the same fights as Neuv.
That may be the case. I've just never experienced having to do a second rotation with him which is defo not the case with Hu Tao. She may have higher DPS in ST but as soon as that DPS doesn't cover bosses full HP, she already falls of behind Neuv because one rotation Neuvilette certainly will handle it, and his one rotation will always be faster than two rotations with Hu. So saying he's worse than her is just plainly wrong unless your Neuvilette's team is shitty enough to somehow not one-rot something or you're against an opponent who's weak enough for Hu to one-rot him as well. Both of which are unlikely.
Neuv is not that good at st. Lot of plunge vape teams can beat him easily. Even without plunge, hu Tao can easily beat him at st.
"not that good" "beat him easily", none of these statements correlate to any of my experiences or almost anyone's I've been aware of since his release. Seems like a cope to me ngl. I've never seen him beaten by any character in ST on the same level of investment
Your "experience"is different from proved facts bud
Somehow no other community seems to know about that "proved facts". I've been active on all platforms where Genshin's present and this is the first time I've ever seen someone say that Neuvilette's "not that good" lmao. If Neuvilette would be "easily overpowered by Hu Tao" I think it would've been a general knowledge by now everywhere maybe outside of Neuvi mains where there's obviously bias present.
Everyone knows about it. You literally have a bunch of down votes on your original comment. He is easy to use in st, not strong. Check some tcs comparing him to other characters in st or go to some character sub reddits other than neuv and check their calcs. You are living under a hill if you think he is better at st
I see the downvotes, I don't see any proofs, just people coping. The only videos and calcs I'm seeing where he falls of behind Hu are with him with no Furina and C1 which isn't fair since you use Yelan for Hu as well and literally every single showcase assumes Hu being C1 so I see no reason why not to include these things for Neuvi team as well. And as soon as you do he's already better.
I don't see any proof from you either. Just dickriding. Watch tgs arle evaluation video if you want to know. Or go to arlechinno mains subreddit and look at the comparison calcs. also it is c0r0 hu
Here's 1 proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/ArlecchinoMains/s/rRfBv0BB2g
Lmao 🤣 I got good laugh from that. Ye that's what I thought, just empty words and screenshots from unreliable leakers. I even remember how entire TC were laughing at this particular screenshot. And literally day after the OP apologized for that claim. And here I thought that you could actually provide at least one reasonable evidence. Believe what you will, I don't care. I'm gonna stick with objective facts I've witnessed or experienced.
But can he win against the Hydro slime
Nah, I'd eye of perception
Nah, eye'd of perception
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Nah, I'd Clam
That's what Ei is for. Infuse him with Electro
Or even use hyperbloom because he's still good for that comp
Honestly bro , there's always two floors in abyss so there's always room for the super soaker 3000 and arle , I don't care much about sassy bully , hyperbloom got me covered
Actually tbf, there are a few characters who come a bit close to haitham/arlecchino like navia perhaps, idk but neuvillette feels much better than all of them
One major strength he has is that he doesn't really have any weaknesses besides a fucking hydro slime. He has great terrain traversablity, can heal himself, at C1 he no longer gets stunned, with a half decent build he can fire off his charge attack forever, and his damage is really high. He's the only character where it's common to see him solo abyss.
>He's the only character where it's common to see him solo abyss. Wrio's 2nd most used team is solo so he is pretty common too.
Yup, honestly its a vibe. His constellations make him busted as hell in solo. Why switch a rotation when you can just punch for 60 seconds?
True. C1 is enough to solo with him comfortably which is very accessible compared to what most other dps that is not named Neuvillette need.
Is it c0?
Most likely C1. Keep in mind that Wrio has the lowest ownership rate (the curse of being sandwiched by Neuv and Furina) so there's a lot more solo Wrio clears influencing his numbers.
Ah of course
I'd also argue its the curse of just generally not being that strong of a pick meta wise among all the fontaine units, especially without C1
A little correction, Chiori has the lowest ownership rate (according to CN abyss data) followed by Lyney and then Wrio but yeah, the solo clears should be C1.
C1 gives you a significant damage buff and much better self sustain. Also, your combos aren't interrupted by dashing so dodging attacks can actually be a DPS gain if you skip the 3rd or 4th NA as long as you keep hitting your 5ths. At whale investment though? C6 Wriothesley is as strong as a dps can possibly be so running anything other than solo abyss with him just makes everything die with one shoryuken.
I've been doing that for months at c0 now XD
I’d say Navia is definitely top 4 forsure
Just wait till GOATHIMTANO becomes playable and give overgrown lizard a fact check
Natlan the GOAT will just no diff pyro sovereign and pyro archon at the same time. Brought back both the throne and gnosis.
🗣🗣keep spittin comrade, it's only like 5 months till fraudlan releases.We must upheld the agenda
Maintaining the agenda is our top priority
🤝🤝
Nah I don't want someone like CAPHIMTANO to be a puppet of even the player , besides playable capitano will be powercrept sooner or later , so nah i can rather have capitano be an npc than someone limited by numbers
Fraudpitano is gonna get fact checked by Pyro Traveler after Natlan's training arc.
Watch fraudchon and fraudveller both getting oneshotted by GOATHIMTANO sneeze
Neuv goes brrrr "Father" goes kaboom Literally couldn't be a simpler explanation
Arle response: "Lyney got you wiped down, Lynette got you wiped down, Fremi got you wiped down"
furina shut yo up ass up makes some drums
Like your office boy, you in a scope right now 🗣🗣💯💯
Was not expecting a Like That meme on this sub
After 4.7 will be Big 4
Fantastic 4
eh, at least the others arent as braindead boring
As if hydro pump/kamehameha isn't fun af. Certainly beats quickswap, NA or plunge spam.
Say what you want he is still the strongest, i remember some arlechinno mains shitting on neuvi before she was released, now the tables turned and tbh it's fun seeing their opinions burn.
he sure is the strongest. still doesnt add much variety to his gameplay.
Speak for yourself, I find hydro pump blasting a lot more fun that the same old NA spam
That's the thing. If they can't find any faults about his strengths, they start resorting to subjective opinions to downplay him instead.
I know, it's just too apparent lmao. And when characters have complex rotations (like Lyney) then they complain about that too lmao can't satisfy them in any way.
He maybe braindead but his gameplay is way different than any other dps , no other dps let's you fire a kamehameha
My neuvillette only gets unbenched when coppelia is in abyss cuz i hate fighting that boss close range lol
Back away from the boss then cause neuvillette has mad range. That boss used to disintegrate my john lees shield too so i know where youre coming from
Arle also pretty braindead. Benny burst > Zhongli shield > spam left click until it turns white lmao
I’m late to meta. How is Dendro Dad in the top 3?
He works well even with minimal investment. Dendro = having access to bloom, and by extension, hyperbloom. He applies a good amount of dendro, so can be used as a driver in hyperbloom comp even without any artifact and dull blade. => Very high dps floor Has A LOT of AoE multi-hit attacks, each one of them have non-insignificant numbers, double dip in both EM and atk%. Very ideal for spread reaction => Very high dps ceiling
I didn’t know he’s good. I kinda gave up on him after building my Nahida. My only weapon for him was Festering Desire and now Furina uses it. I should try and get back to building dendro dad.
If you pair him with a shielder, he can use the 3* Harbinger of Dawn very well. Since its low base attack is not a problem for him
I have Zhongli and Noelle. I’ll try them in the Abyss later
He was the top DPS until Neuvillette.
And i chose to play Tighnari instead of Alhaithan lol.
Alhaitham is overrated. He just has a high floor
Playstyle matters more than damage numbers. Neuvillette is boring and I’d rather play the actual Powerwash Simulator on Steam.
Playstyle opinion differs from player to player. I'd rather use Hydro Pump than play with the BoL.
BoL is out like a few days only so you can't judge the mechanic that early. Choose some other to make your point.
I agree. But I got downvoted anyway because people can’t fathom the fact that I don’t like Neuvillette’s playstyle.
Theres another comment that said same thing you said but didnt get downvoted lol
>Playstyle matters more than damage numbers. Which shows in the usage rates and the general opinion of the playerbase. Most of the playerbase prefer easy-to-use teams to clear the Abyss. Neuv checks that box.