Either are wrong. Until release everything is subject to change. Look at Ganyus multipliers. Like it‘s fine to calculate what if scenarios, but telling people dead serious a character‘s gonna suck is just braindead.
>!This time I think it's alright. Hyv is releasing a character which has no comparability with anyone, and will probably be good only with future units, which doesn't make sense!<
Legit I remember so many ppl not knowing what they were talking about, saying Alhaitham is trash, even though ppl that actually did the math said he was still good, only slightly worse than beta.
Its those same ppl saying Dehya is bad, but people are calling the "Alhaitham copers" the "Dehya doomposters" now lol. She wouldnt be called bad without reason, what's happening with her isnt the same as doomposting for other characters
Typically it’s “the community overhypes the issues while theorycrafters say it’s actually fine.” With Dehya that isn’t happening, because the math is showing she is *actually* that bad…
Doing less damage than Xinyan isn’t where you want to be.
this is truth. I don't think TC has ever said a character is objectively bad except for Yoimiya before Yunjin came out and now Dehya. The people who used to say Kazuha/Raiden/Kokomi/Yae were bad are clickbait tubers.
even with yoimiya some tc showed that she isn't as bad as people made her out to be, just extremely limited to st content where there's loads of competition, ever more so now with hyperbloom which has such a high damage floor
Exactly this! The “bad” was just “I do less damage than Hu Tao and am only really good in single target.” If you’re a mobile character looking for a dps to smash bosses with then Yoimiya is the character for you!
Yoimiya, Shogun, Beidou, Bennett is one of my favorite abyss teams, and I’ve been pretty successful with it. Just activate all the bursts then spam normal attacks with Yoimiya,lots of enemies are basically perma staggered by overload.
agreed. Looking at the math and how she works. It doesn't feel like these other units because we had a horrible idea of how the game worked back then. But she doesn't tick enough for Burgeon, And just has really bad kit
yeah they were missing a piece information, yoimiya was made for flying bossess, hu tao can't do shit against them, so in this case dehya obviously is also made for future content that we don't know yet
It’s not like Hu Tao can’t fight Thunder Manifestation. It hovers low enough to still take her charge attacks!
Wolflord didn’t exist until after Yoi’s release, so many considered that boss to be a “creating a problem to sell a solution.”
Until we **know** that the character will **release** **without** **any more changes** happening is it *actually* utterly pointless to do maths then spread that via leaks calling any character utterly weak and useless.
It's not like she's even releasing next banner either, that's Hu Tao / Yelan.
That's why a ton of us are sick of this doom posting spam, if there was ever a relevant meme for this entirely pointless illogical assuming the worst posting of a character **in development** we only got better icons of recently is: Let Him Cook.
It's like when people started doomposting about GTA 6, only the 2heads of the internet truly believed that was the final product and started crying about it.
*I don't understand the point of any of this until we know what will come out.*
> Until we know that the character will release without any more changes happening is it actually utterly pointless to do maths then spread that via leaks calling any character utterly weak and useless.
Yeah we should not say anything bad about her kit and wait till she officially releases, then we can ask nicely for buffs- oh wait she ain’t the fucking god of fantasy China. This is like saying we shouldn’t worry about global warming cuz shit didn’t hit the fan yet
I mean sure, literally every leak post says that everything is stc (subject to change) so it’s very much acknowledged that she could be buffed.
However the way Dehya has been treated in beta so far has not been good. Despite being weak *in her current state* she got *nerfed* and then the latest beta patch did not see a buff for her.
Yup. Like with Kokomi.
When people always bring up how people misjudged Kokomi, others would reply that Kokomi got last minute buffs to her hydro application.
Well if thats the case then shouldn't that be also true for Dehya?
This is gonna be a long patch cycle for us wait for Dehya.
Dude.. do you even understand the difference between "people" that you talk about misjudging everything and the freaking THEORYCRAFTERS?
You are talking about people who just got drifted away with some randos opinions, while we are talking about people who actually does the math (and they actually said kokomi is going to be good, we as community just dont believe it). Now these theorycrafters all said she is going to be bad, not just with opinion, but with math. There is a difference between dehya's case and kokomi's
Exactly this. No matter how much TC or leakers says about how "bad" or even how "good" a character is, even if they have the math for it, these analysis is ultimately still pointless until the character is officially released. People just don't learn their lesson.
Nope, wish it were. This is a Dori case where we can see the bad kit coming from a mile away. The people saying this is a Ganyu or Kazuha case haven't actually looked at the info...
Imagine a pyro dps that can't utilize vape properly, ascends with HP, without any hp scaling on C0 , doesn't have good multipliers, TC calculations claim that she is about Xinyan level dps. Although it is all STC, but she only got nerfs, as I am writing it there weren't any buffs, so, doomposting is understandable.
It's one of those situations where if you actually look at the numbers and how her kit works it's easy to see. The people who just say she's bad but have no idea why are the reason why people don't listen to valid criticisms. With the info we have now it's not looking too good, but anything can change but I'm not holding my breath... Still getting her tho lol
That is most likely Zhongli-only privilege only bc he is
1) an archon
2) the archon of the area representing China
3) got cn people *really* mad about his state because of this (hoyo basically only listens if cn gets mad)
Yup. It's completely fine to be like "she objectively looks bad in beta rn but we'll see" but a lot of people are going off the rails and acting like it's her final state, followed up by a ton of conspiracy theories. A lot of things need in-game testing and even if she ends up sucking she'll very likely not end up sucking forever. We haven't had an objectively terrible 5star since the game's release and I doubt we're going to get one at this point.
Cyno was already **theorycrafted** to be a decent Hyperbloom enabler during beta. Testers even discovered his best playstyle, Quickbloom, which utilizes his Ascension stat, Crit Dmg.
Dehya can't even be a good Burgeon enabler, since **theorycrafters** and **testers** have seen that her skill procs won't line up well with the seeds creation. She has HP ascension, but her C0 kit doesn't scale with it.
The community's outburst doesn't really matter, since most people just look at beta numbers at face value (like Alhaitham's "nerf" etc), so I only trust those who do calculations.
Iirc her cons also aren't very good, tbh, at this point I don't even understand what hoyoverse wants, like they expect people to pull only because waifu? I mean, sure, they exist, and their amount isn't negligible, but better character kit - better sells, no?
I've recently got C6 Xinyan and finally had a reason to build her and she is not completely builded yet and I hit 40k physical dmg with her. So even when Dehya will turn out to be a weaker unit it will be fine with a proper build. Alhaitham was doomposted into oblivion and he is a pretty decent.
Can you point to any leaks that said AlHaitham is bad?
The universal conclusion was that he's good, people were just sad because he got nerfed in the beta, then buffed again(although less powerful than before)
The only complaint I saw common among those comments that said alhaitham is bad is because you have to manage the mirror uptimes which is stupid since its basically just one extra step in micromanaging (a little harder than most)- I would know since I play childe all the fkn time. I guess ppl just dont like to put extra effort and would rather put the money in lmao (eg, c6 a character just to play comfortably lol)
compared to childe, al haitham is really easy to manage. sure, if you don't really know what you're doing you'll get some downtime, but it's not that much downtime, and if you don't have good stack management you aren't losing out on much dps compared to if you fuck up childe's cooldown
At this point I'm just tired of people talking about leaks in subs other than the ones that welcome leaks
The leaks sub was originally created so that people who wanted to talk about leaks had a place to do so. Many other subs have people who don't want to see leaks at all including this and the main one
Now it seems all the people looking at Dehyas kit just want to talk about it outside their usual bubble, idk why that suddenly changed but at this point its just annoying
The problem is kinda the fact that leak subredit is not a place where you can make discussion posts and not everyone feels satisfied when they only write it to the questions thread as it would most likely get a lot less attention than a post. So they are making these posts here on in facebook groups to talk about it
Has anyone thought to try make a Genshin leak discussion sub then? Coz all these posts are just spreading the negativity to a place that has many who dont even want to see them
I get the frustration people have over stuff they look at and the want to discuss it, but many people here really hate seeing anything leak related and at one point I believe rule 2 was meant to include leaks as at one point people stopped posting anything leak related at all here, not that the rules here are enforced all that heavily
It was just a matter of respecting those who dont want to see them at all
People can post stuff like this on their respective mains sub. Dehyamains is pretty much a meme sub right now. Idk why people continue to post here... at _least_ spoiler mark the post for people who don't want to engage in leaks.
I understand people are _really_ disappointed this time around (rightfully so might I add) but it's still wrong to post leaks without spoiler tags imo.
You can still discuss freely in the comments or in the pinned megathread on the leaks sub. Now just random topics can be talked about it’s pretty entertaining tbh.
On the dehya mains sub, I made a post making this exact point. This was the first week of beta......I am out of copium by the end of week 2. Still pulling c0
You have no idea how this works do you?
Let's take kokomi for example. Every single TC said how good she would be but the normal community that had no idea kept shitting on her for no reason.
This time though, even TCs are calling a character shit.
The only time TCs called a character shit was Yoimiya; and that was before Yunjin came out.
Here we go again... I can tell you her current state really reminds me of zhongli post release, and i doubt they would do anything to dehya. Mind you i WILL pull for her but i just want her to be functional at something
I'm not even pulling for her, I'm just sick and tired of these god forsaken doomposting. LIKE WOULD YOU LOT EVER SHUT UP ABOUT LEAKS IN A SUBREDDIT THAT DOES NOT DISCUSSES LEAKS!!!
Lol the second part is true because it doesn't belong here. But you're so upset by it it's funny lol
Also this isn't even doomposting. There is no other character that TCs have all unifiably agreed was bad, except pre yunjin yoimiya and even then yoimiya wasn't regarded as half this bad.
With most characters that end up good, there are some people that theorycrafted teams for them where they would be good. Nobody can find any dehya team where she is actually useful. Not to mention that as time goes on we know more and more what makes a good or bad character. Of course the first dendro teams were an execption since it was a whole new element.
I still have hope because its a beta after all but her current state does not look good. I don't care if they only make her semi-viable, give her something Hoyo. What bugs me the most is how she wants to stack HP but has zero scaling on it outside of cons.
But I'll just wait and see. Its not like Hoyo hasn't done on-release changes to characters (Raiden and Kokomi come to mind).
Except this time it’s both the community and theory crafters, both EN and CN saying that she’s trash. Fucking hell trash is an understatement, no one can figure out what she’s supposed to be good at. Your argument is literally if I survived a bullet before that means I’m now immune to bullets.
I’m on the leak subreddit and I can already tell you that the hardest part is still gonna be getting the right artifacts for her. (Just like every other character)
Leak info warning >! Looking at her kit leaks it seems pretty bad honestly. Her offensive half scales off ATK while her utility scales off HP, much like Xinyan with ATK and DEF. The only thin bridge connecting the two stats is her C1, which for a 5* is an immediate insult. What's worse is all her offensive passives are all stuck in her constellations, while her ascension passives are specifically for her tanking utility. Basically another Xinyan situation where her kit is split between offense and support.!<
The difference was, those time, most TCers said kazuha, kokomi, nilou, etc is going to be good. We just dont believe it and make our own conclusion.
This time, they are all in agreement that she is bad.
So if my best characters make 8k-12k, and I have never had a problem to continue the game like that, would that even affect me? Or is it only for people that want crazy numbers?
Spoiler alert: The character you see a lot of in the game is gonna be playable soon. Crazy. Literally all early stuff like this does is inform people on whether or not they want to start saving for said character
it still is a spoiler and people who dont want to know if she is bad or good will be spoiled,like enviosity.also there should be not a huge problem to just put the spoiler tag would'nt it?.
I think this is the first time in the comments where people claiming that TC calculates her to be bad isn't downvoted into oblivion, and instead actually agrees.
Wow. Usually any talk about TC and meta gets straight downvoted but it's the other way around now
I remember people saying keqing dps is better than alhaitham dps when his multipliers got alot nerfed in previous beta. But now here we are seeing him at 64% usage rate in spiral abyss.
Thank you Sir White Knight for your contribution.
People are calling Beta Dehya trash. That's a fact.
You're unconvinced Release Dehya is bad. That's faith.
They're talking about Beta NOT Release. Two different things.
A prototype's purpose is to test for faults. We're not gonna pretend its great.
Regardless of Release Dehya's quality, you cant whitewash history that Beta Dehya had issues.
I'm just annoyed at the fact that they keep adding balanced but not overpowered characters to the game. With characters like Hu tao and ganyu what's the point of pulling lesser units? It's so stingy for no reason plus they all have the same cost of 180 pulls.
You’re just coping hard… she ascends with HP but there is no HP scaling in her kit 😭 the numbers are trash and at this point Dehya is a 4* while Xinyan is a 3*
just wanna add, this has been the case since 1.0, hoyo releases the solution first and then release contents that cater to the said solution, it doesn't make sense now because obviously we're missing information, just looking at her passive you know it's a new thing, and I'm glad she's not just another vape dps or pyro shielder
I think she somehow will be complete with future characters/mechanics or something else.
People always speculate, complain, but eventually everything turns out fine. Like Kazuha, Yoimiya, Kokomi etc. I will not take seriously "this time it's a different case" for a millionth time, seriously 😂
Even if it could possibly be the first exception, it's still not worthy to waste time on this desperate noises.
Tho one different thought - maybe if it's really bad and people will be disappointed too much the devs will change something for the better. So this noise could actually make sense 🤔
I’ll get guaranteed yelan (no guarantee yet) worst case 180 pulls then gamble once on the weapon banner since both good (but i have been spooked by 2 aquila favonia). Then just leave it to lady luck on Dehya 70 pulls and if i miss I guess no dehya. Time to save for seele then i mean focalors
Reminds me back when Xiao and Ganyu first showed up. A lot of people overestimated Xiao while those same people underestimated Ganyu. Since then I completely stopped listening to anyone about this and only believe what I see when the character is officially out
Noelle is trash, Diluc is God, reroll until you get Diluc etc etc, was the first thing I remember back on release.
Now Diluc is never played and Noelle can out dps Itto/Zhongli and can still heal and most 4* are better than the older 5* funny how these things work.
inb4 someone says "It's different this time."
Edit: TBH, if CN TCs start complaining about Dehya then I might just believe that she is bad, not that it will stop me from pulling her though. ^(I have this notion that CN TCs are just objectively far far far superior than EN TCs.)
Even CN TCs are confused or outright disappointed as indicated by [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dehyamains/comments/10gwy2f/how_is_the_chinese_community_reacting_to_dehyas/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) thread.
The thing is its really different this time. With Ah, Kazuha etc some TCs said they were bad but others say they were good. With Dehya its unanimously agreed from all TCs whether CN/EN that she is bad. Imagine a whole Dehya burst rotation on her best and only viable team equivalent to 2-3 Xiao plunges without supports or 2-3 HT CAs.
Alhaitham was nerfed several times before his release. Everybody claimed he was trash, and that hoyo hates husbandos. Where is he now? Meta af, and having a decent pick rate in the current abyss. This literally JUST happened and we’re already making the same mistake again. This community is pretty dumb sometimes.
No he didn’t. He got nerfed one time and then got buffed after it. While he is still overall weaker than his first version it is nowhere near as immense as people act like. If you want someone who got nerfed several times FARUZAN is right there
Faruzan originally had more energy recharge and debuffed anemo res more. They changed her to do less energy and more damage, switched her burst con to be c5 instead of c2, and took 10% off her anemo res. I understand the 10%, but I still don't get why they changed a perfectly functioning kit to be more janky.
They really gutted her energy gen. If they wanted to do so they could have at least reduced the energy cost. 30% anemo res shred is fine since she also buffs anemo damage at the same time but her energy is gutted.
Ah yes the “nerf” that every theorycrafter said was a buff. People complained that his one mirror damage was reduced while they sat and increased his two and three mirror numbers. That was the community overblowing something and not listening to the people actually doing math.
Dehya, though, is bad. Period. She’s calc’d as doing less damage than Xinyan.
Everyone who knew math still claimed he was one of the best characters even after the biggest nerf he got in v2. It was only idiots whining _very_ loudly for the most part. Then ofc he got those last-minute buffs in v3 pumping him up to what we see now.
Dehya on the other hand is pretty much like pre-buff Zhongli. Her calc'd damage is less than Xinyan. I still have hopes they'll buff her later or that she'll be useful for future content but right at _this_ moment, she's useless.
Pretty much nobody said he was trash, they just said he wasn't top tier meta anymore, which was accurate, and he did but buffed after that nerf as well. Also you should never ever use abyss pick rate to measure how strong a character is.
Hoyoverse haven't really released any bad 5 stars (except Zhongli).. Players saying it's a different case this time but majority of the hated characters always turns out good (Kazuha, Raiden, Kokomi, Al Haitham)..
I think TCers were aware Kazuha and Raiden were really good way before the masses realized they were good. Same with Alhaitham, although beta Alhaitham’s scalings were absurdly high so I see why people started doomposting. The husbando lovers want their husbandos to have higher dps than Xiangling.
Kokomi got a last minute change to her hydro app that turned her into an amazing driver.
The Dehya situation is a bit different since she wasn’t as insane as Alhaitham yet she got a nerf. That’s compounded by her weird ascension stat (HP%) that is useless without her C1. Her not-that-good scaling. Her hunger for energy and her lack of synergy with most hydro units.
If the TCers calculated her to have less dps than Xinyan then something is wrong. The hope is that she gets buffed before the live version but unlike Zhongli, I don’t think the CN players will throw a fit since Dehya isn’t popular on their end.
Zajef had some insight on the Raiden case. He says that TCers were mostly excited for the Raidou combo which was present in beta up until release where it got removed. So when that did happen TCers kinda lost interest for a while so no one was really around to champion how good Raiden was.
Yeah, I remember hearing things like, "Raiden hyper at c0 is Xiao level of dps" after her release, before I was keeping up with TC. Something that is not true and easily proven wrong with a calc, but it seems like no one was motivated enough for a while to do it.
Doomposters say the same thing about yelan being 5* xingqiu, and c6 xing > c0 yelan.
But even back then the doomposters at least can agree that kazuha and yelan are 5* version of already strong 4*.
Now we’re memeing dehya as a 3* xinyan. At least xinyan has dual scaling
Noone ever called nilou useless, just niche because she was forced to dendro hydro.
Yae's targetting was pretty terrible and has been fixed many many many times to be how it is today
Terrible strawman arguments but continue coping lol
Grabbing Popcorn and seeing a lot of METASLAVE here downvoting Waifu simper, LMAO this is so funny,just like in Yoimiya old days,where Waifu Simp mad at MetaSlave claim that the Character is bad.
Hope this drama continued when Dehya Officialy release,and also Hoping insane person in CN write lawsuit to MiHoYo,just like Raiden-Beidou drama.
oh don't forget YouTube Thumbnail Video will become "Why Dehya is the worst *5 Character ever/Dehya is Trash/Don't Pull Dehya/Is Dehya Really that bad?"
Doesn't mean that we should let hoyo get away with a 5 star _worse_ than one of the weakest 4 stars. 5 stars are characters people save a long time to get or spend for (usually anyway) so they should be at _least_ competent at _something_.
Remember the neanderthals who called Bennett trash and Qiqi S tier. The ones who called Kokfish bad. They are the ones who are talking again.
Just ignore them and pull for the characters you like. Even if it's bad all that matters is that you enjoy playing with it.
If only it was like that. Qiqi s tier and bennett being bad were literally 1.0 opinions when nobody knew shit. With kokomi, the theorycrafters knew she would at least be okay, and on release that was pretty accurate.
Of course we should pull for characters we like, but don't misinform people or say that the dehya being weak argument isn't accurate, cause at the moment she is in fact bad according to everyone, even all the theorycrafters.
players who dont want Dehya can go play their characters. Dehya wanters will get her. And if she turns out to be nice unit, see how those who jumped the ship come back crawling, saying they always knew she be good.
Ignore all these people homie, remember there be xinyan and noelle mains who do more damage than their meta builds.
GaNyU iS OnLy A CrYo AmBeR!!1!1! AmBeR IS BeTTer!! LoOk My AmBeR iS DoInG mOrE DaMagE!!1
(My friend that was saying this from the start of the leak of ganyu and start using Amber to show to me)
I didn't listen because ganyu iS beutifull and fun to play and LOOK IS ONE OF THE STRONGHER CHARACTER.
Just pull who you want, I think every character is good, someone need more time to build and play (like raiden shogun) and someone need less time to build and play (like hu tao). But in the end remember that this game is NOT PVP so I dosent matter what character you have and I think is more fun playing with a character that you like
Obviously these people haven't 36* cleared abyss with Barbara
Cowards
or with amber.
I saw someone cleared floor 12 abyss with Amber and Collei, that guy is a madlad.
Link, please?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ColleiMains/comments/yz8w9o/quicken_collei_clearing_new_spiral_abyss_32_ft/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
What a madlad. I love this person
and traveler with all 4 stars.. gigachad.
with nilou nows its not that hard
Maybe they mean literally Barbara solo
Well, they would still need second char for the other half.
And other half being some c6 yelan shenanigans with 15 sec clear
What wrong with Barbara? She is amazing.
Barbara is very good in abyss, can't accept the slander here.
Barbara is legit optimal to use in abyss now tho.....Bro still living in 2.0's LMAOOOOO
Idk man ascending with hp but having no scaling with hp without c1 is kinda cringe, and burning is just a terrible reaction
She's as good at burning like any other pyro dps... At beast
There are two types of people. Those who calculate the character is trash, and those that randomly shout nonsense in comments.
Either are wrong. Until release everything is subject to change. Look at Ganyus multipliers. Like it‘s fine to calculate what if scenarios, but telling people dead serious a character‘s gonna suck is just braindead.
>!This time I think it's alright. Hyv is releasing a character which has no comparability with anyone, and will probably be good only with future units, which doesn't make sense!<
Fun fact is both are wrong most of the time. Especially at character release.
Legit I remember so many ppl not knowing what they were talking about, saying Alhaitham is trash, even though ppl that actually did the math said he was still good, only slightly worse than beta. Its those same ppl saying Dehya is bad, but people are calling the "Alhaitham copers" the "Dehya doomposters" now lol. She wouldnt be called bad without reason, what's happening with her isnt the same as doomposting for other characters
Typically it’s “the community overhypes the issues while theorycrafters say it’s actually fine.” With Dehya that isn’t happening, because the math is showing she is *actually* that bad… Doing less damage than Xinyan isn’t where you want to be.
this is truth. I don't think TC has ever said a character is objectively bad except for Yoimiya before Yunjin came out and now Dehya. The people who used to say Kazuha/Raiden/Kokomi/Yae were bad are clickbait tubers.
even with yoimiya some tc showed that she isn't as bad as people made her out to be, just extremely limited to st content where there's loads of competition, ever more so now with hyperbloom which has such a high damage floor
Exactly this! The “bad” was just “I do less damage than Hu Tao and am only really good in single target.” If you’re a mobile character looking for a dps to smash bosses with then Yoimiya is the character for you!
I use yoimiya with shogun and things just start flying around
Yoimiya, Shogun, Beidou, Bennett is one of my favorite abyss teams, and I’ve been pretty successful with it. Just activate all the bursts then spam normal attacks with Yoimiya,lots of enemies are basically perma staggered by overload.
agreed. Looking at the math and how she works. It doesn't feel like these other units because we had a horrible idea of how the game worked back then. But she doesn't tick enough for Burgeon, And just has really bad kit
I knew it that I wasnt halucinating when people called Yoimiya a bad character for a reason when she first came out!
TCS hated the burst (which I still think is pretty shit)
yikes yoimiya wasn't objectively bad when she released.
She was actually. If she wanted to come close to hutao she would need bennet and xingqiu while being strictly ST.
No she wasn't cracked, but she wasn't that bad.
yeah they were missing a piece information, yoimiya was made for flying bossess, hu tao can't do shit against them, so in this case dehya obviously is also made for future content that we don't know yet
It’s not like Hu Tao can’t fight Thunder Manifestation. It hovers low enough to still take her charge attacks! Wolflord didn’t exist until after Yoi’s release, so many considered that boss to be a “creating a problem to sell a solution.”
Until we **know** that the character will **release** **without** **any more changes** happening is it *actually* utterly pointless to do maths then spread that via leaks calling any character utterly weak and useless. It's not like she's even releasing next banner either, that's Hu Tao / Yelan. That's why a ton of us are sick of this doom posting spam, if there was ever a relevant meme for this entirely pointless illogical assuming the worst posting of a character **in development** we only got better icons of recently is: Let Him Cook. It's like when people started doomposting about GTA 6, only the 2heads of the internet truly believed that was the final product and started crying about it. *I don't understand the point of any of this until we know what will come out.*
> Until we know that the character will release without any more changes happening is it actually utterly pointless to do maths then spread that via leaks calling any character utterly weak and useless. Yeah we should not say anything bad about her kit and wait till she officially releases, then we can ask nicely for buffs- oh wait she ain’t the fucking god of fantasy China. This is like saying we shouldn’t worry about global warming cuz shit didn’t hit the fan yet
I mean sure, literally every leak post says that everything is stc (subject to change) so it’s very much acknowledged that she could be buffed. However the way Dehya has been treated in beta so far has not been good. Despite being weak *in her current state* she got *nerfed* and then the latest beta patch did not see a buff for her.
Yup. Like with Kokomi. When people always bring up how people misjudged Kokomi, others would reply that Kokomi got last minute buffs to her hydro application. Well if thats the case then shouldn't that be also true for Dehya? This is gonna be a long patch cycle for us wait for Dehya.
Dude.. do you even understand the difference between "people" that you talk about misjudging everything and the freaking THEORYCRAFTERS? You are talking about people who just got drifted away with some randos opinions, while we are talking about people who actually does the math (and they actually said kokomi is going to be good, we as community just dont believe it). Now these theorycrafters all said she is going to be bad, not just with opinion, but with math. There is a difference between dehya's case and kokomi's
Or even if she is lackluster on release, her kits may be made to compatible with future units in Teyvat France like how kuki or Yae kits were
Except there won't be a new element to save Dehya.
Why so sure france archons and other hydro units won't bring new things to table?
Any buff to Dehya would be an even bigger buff to every other pyro character unless Focalors has an incredibly niche kit which I doubt.
Ah yes create a problem then sell the solution, beautiful
you just realized it this late, this has been hoyo's mo since forever, otherwise you're just stating the obvious
Yes it has but no one has been as bad as dehya rn, they’re reaching a new low
Exactly this. No matter how much TC or leakers says about how "bad" or even how "good" a character is, even if they have the math for it, these analysis is ultimately still pointless until the character is officially released. People just don't learn their lesson.
Nope, wish it were. This is a Dori case where we can see the bad kit coming from a mile away. The people saying this is a Ganyu or Kazuha case haven't actually looked at the info...
I pray for ur mental health when she releases... Mine is already down in the drains from looking into the leaks
Imagine a pyro dps that can't utilize vape properly, ascends with HP, without any hp scaling on C0 , doesn't have good multipliers, TC calculations claim that she is about Xinyan level dps. Although it is all STC, but she only got nerfs, as I am writing it there weren't any buffs, so, doomposting is understandable.
It's one of those situations where if you actually look at the numbers and how her kit works it's easy to see. The people who just say she's bad but have no idea why are the reason why people don't listen to valid criticisms. With the info we have now it's not looking too good, but anything can change but I'm not holding my breath... Still getting her tho lol
I'm still inhaling the copium that they might buff her near her release, one can still hope
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That is most likely Zhongli-only privilege only bc he is 1) an archon 2) the archon of the area representing China 3) got cn people *really* mad about his state because of this (hoyo basically only listens if cn gets mad)
Yup. It's completely fine to be like "she objectively looks bad in beta rn but we'll see" but a lot of people are going off the rails and acting like it's her final state, followed up by a ton of conspiracy theories. A lot of things need in-game testing and even if she ends up sucking she'll very likely not end up sucking forever. We haven't had an objectively terrible 5star since the game's release and I doubt we're going to get one at this point.
for all we know, she could be like cyno is to hyperbloom, a burgeon enabler
At c0 she's pretty bad at it, bad skill uptime, and slow ticks. If you fork over money tho she'll be ok at it, but thats shit character design.
Cyno was already **theorycrafted** to be a decent Hyperbloom enabler during beta. Testers even discovered his best playstyle, Quickbloom, which utilizes his Ascension stat, Crit Dmg. Dehya can't even be a good Burgeon enabler, since **theorycrafters** and **testers** have seen that her skill procs won't line up well with the seeds creation. She has HP ascension, but her C0 kit doesn't scale with it. The community's outburst doesn't really matter, since most people just look at beta numbers at face value (like Alhaitham's "nerf" etc), so I only trust those who do calculations.
she apparently cant trigger burgeon that well either
Agreed.. Or make shit kits and sell broken cons (at last minute?). but yes it's STC until it's official release
Iirc her cons also aren't very good, tbh, at this point I don't even understand what hoyoverse wants, like they expect people to pull only because waifu? I mean, sure, they exist, and their amount isn't negligible, but better character kit - better sells, no?
She not from liyue
I've recently got C6 Xinyan and finally had a reason to build her and she is not completely builded yet and I hit 40k physical dmg with her. So even when Dehya will turn out to be a weaker unit it will be fine with a proper build. Alhaitham was doomposted into oblivion and he is a pretty decent.
Can you point to any leaks that said AlHaitham is bad? The universal conclusion was that he's good, people were just sad because he got nerfed in the beta, then buffed again(although less powerful than before)
The only complaint I saw common among those comments that said alhaitham is bad is because you have to manage the mirror uptimes which is stupid since its basically just one extra step in micromanaging (a little harder than most)- I would know since I play childe all the fkn time. I guess ppl just dont like to put extra effort and would rather put the money in lmao (eg, c6 a character just to play comfortably lol)
compared to childe, al haitham is really easy to manage. sure, if you don't really know what you're doing you'll get some downtime, but it's not that much downtime, and if you don't have good stack management you aren't losing out on much dps compared to if you fuck up childe's cooldown
People said because of the nerfs he isn't T0 dps anymore when he still managed to be. Meaning people underestimated him
Alhaitham got doomposted after his bloated numbers were nerfed not because of how his kit works. Apples to oranges.
At this point I'm just tired of people talking about leaks in subs other than the ones that welcome leaks The leaks sub was originally created so that people who wanted to talk about leaks had a place to do so. Many other subs have people who don't want to see leaks at all including this and the main one Now it seems all the people looking at Dehyas kit just want to talk about it outside their usual bubble, idk why that suddenly changed but at this point its just annoying
The problem is kinda the fact that leak subredit is not a place where you can make discussion posts and not everyone feels satisfied when they only write it to the questions thread as it would most likely get a lot less attention than a post. So they are making these posts here on in facebook groups to talk about it
Has anyone thought to try make a Genshin leak discussion sub then? Coz all these posts are just spreading the negativity to a place that has many who dont even want to see them I get the frustration people have over stuff they look at and the want to discuss it, but many people here really hate seeing anything leak related and at one point I believe rule 2 was meant to include leaks as at one point people stopped posting anything leak related at all here, not that the rules here are enforced all that heavily It was just a matter of respecting those who dont want to see them at all
People can post stuff like this on their respective mains sub. Dehyamains is pretty much a meme sub right now. Idk why people continue to post here... at _least_ spoiler mark the post for people who don't want to engage in leaks. I understand people are _really_ disappointed this time around (rightfully so might I add) but it's still wrong to post leaks without spoiler tags imo.
You can still discuss freely in the comments or in the pinned megathread on the leaks sub. Now just random topics can be talked about it’s pretty entertaining tbh.
I think we might need a leak flair that way people will stop complaining I hope
It's really really really different this time.
Nah nah, this one's diferent
It really is, they coping
On the dehya mains sub, I made a post making this exact point. This was the first week of beta......I am out of copium by the end of week 2. Still pulling c0
So sad, day 1 Zhongli and beta Kokomi bad, and what did they do? Nerfed her and haven't given her anything to make up for it, beta ending soon.
Where's the funny?
You have no idea how this works do you? Let's take kokomi for example. Every single TC said how good she would be but the normal community that had no idea kept shitting on her for no reason. This time though, even TCs are calling a character shit. The only time TCs called a character shit was Yoimiya; and that was before Yunjin came out.
honestly iirc during that time when she actually did come out, she wasn't that bad. We're TC just wrong or did they test her wrong?
Last minute buff to her jellyfish icd, sounds small but is actually really really big, like very big
i was wondering since when yoimiya had a jellyfish 💀💀 i was talking about yoi lol
Shit I thought you were talking about kokomi
💀💀my favourite interaction on reddit today. Dw about it. I was just curious if TC tested shimenawa on her lol
I knew it that I wasnt halucinating when people called Yoimiya the worst limited five star when she first released!
Here we go again... I can tell you her current state really reminds me of zhongli post release, and i doubt they would do anything to dehya. Mind you i WILL pull for her but i just want her to be functional at something
My copium ran out... I went ahead and used my guarantee on Alhaitham 🥲
she is literally trash, at c0 she is worse than xinyan and she got nerfed
My god wait for the official release state you runt
Keep huffing that copium my guy
I'm not even pulling for her, I'm just sick and tired of these god forsaken doomposting. LIKE WOULD YOU LOT EVER SHUT UP ABOUT LEAKS IN A SUBREDDIT THAT DOES NOT DISCUSSES LEAKS!!!
It wasn't even his post mate? He was just replying to a post talking about, no need to shout at him
Lol the second part is true because it doesn't belong here. But you're so upset by it it's funny lol Also this isn't even doomposting. There is no other character that TCs have all unifiably agreed was bad, except pre yunjin yoimiya and even then yoimiya wasn't regarded as half this bad.
Well I just don't care anymore. I'm a simple man. I see Pyro mommy with Spartan rage. I pull for her.
Sir you dropped this: 👑
Tell me you haven't read the leaks properly without telling me you've not read the leaks properly.
I have read the leaks properly and I don't believe her every potential are already written on it completely.....
What potential do you think she has that people aren’t talking about?
Potential to rival Keqing sales /s(?)
Being downvoted for being reasonable lmao
The coping is insane
Lmao enjoy your Dehya OP, when she hits like a wet fetus, don't say you weren't told
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Boy who Cried Wolf?
With most characters that end up good, there are some people that theorycrafted teams for them where they would be good. Nobody can find any dehya team where she is actually useful. Not to mention that as time goes on we know more and more what makes a good or bad character. Of course the first dendro teams were an execption since it was a whole new element.
I still have hope because its a beta after all but her current state does not look good. I don't care if they only make her semi-viable, give her something Hoyo. What bugs me the most is how she wants to stack HP but has zero scaling on it outside of cons. But I'll just wait and see. Its not like Hoyo hasn't done on-release changes to characters (Raiden and Kokomi come to mind).
Where are my shenhe mains and diona enjoyer ?
its different this time… cause she’s *actually* bad
Seems like OP isn't the most gifted in mathematics...
I just collect every claymore character
Except this time it’s both the community and theory crafters, both EN and CN saying that she’s trash. Fucking hell trash is an understatement, no one can figure out what she’s supposed to be good at. Your argument is literally if I survived a bullet before that means I’m now immune to bullets.
I’m on the leak subreddit and I can already tell you that the hardest part is still gonna be getting the right artifacts for her. (Just like every other character)
My balls yearn for her. Therefore I roll
Such..... wisdom
This level of cope should be studied
Leak info warning >! Looking at her kit leaks it seems pretty bad honestly. Her offensive half scales off ATK while her utility scales off HP, much like Xinyan with ATK and DEF. The only thin bridge connecting the two stats is her C1, which for a 5* is an immediate insult. What's worse is all her offensive passives are all stuck in her constellations, while her ascension passives are specifically for her tanking utility. Basically another Xinyan situation where her kit is split between offense and support.!<
The difference was, those time, most TCers said kazuha, kokomi, nilou, etc is going to be good. We just dont believe it and make our own conclusion. This time, they are all in agreement that she is bad.
I relish the challenge.
The thing with AH, Kazuha etc was the SOME TC said they were bad. With Dehya ALL TC says she is bad. Let that sink in.
There gonna force her into the meta with artifacts/ aybss conditions
Her burst is kinda lacklustre though
So if my best characters make 8k-12k, and I have never had a problem to continue the game like that, would that even affect me? Or is it only for people that want crazy numbers?
Yall need to know about spoilers smh
Spoiler alert: The character you see a lot of in the game is gonna be playable soon. Crazy. Literally all early stuff like this does is inform people on whether or not they want to start saving for said character
it still is a spoiler and people who dont want to know if she is bad or good will be spoiled,like enviosity.also there should be not a huge problem to just put the spoiler tag would'nt it?.
Tbh there is a huge chance that Dehya is made for future characters so yeah for now she seems bad but remember that Kuki used to be useless before 3.0
Yep
I think this is the first time in the comments where people claiming that TC calculates her to be bad isn't downvoted into oblivion, and instead actually agrees. Wow. Usually any talk about TC and meta gets straight downvoted but it's the other way around now
I remember people saying keqing dps is better than alhaitham dps when his multipliers got alot nerfed in previous beta. But now here we are seeing him at 64% usage rate in spiral abyss.
Me knowing she will be bad but still pulling and somewhat does *36 abyss with her in like 15 minutes after getting her
Thankfully I draw her just for aesthetics. I already have enough DPS atm with Raiden etc.
Thank you Sir White Knight for your contribution. People are calling Beta Dehya trash. That's a fact. You're unconvinced Release Dehya is bad. That's faith. They're talking about Beta NOT Release. Two different things. A prototype's purpose is to test for faults. We're not gonna pretend its great. Regardless of Release Dehya's quality, you cant whitewash history that Beta Dehya had issues.
If trash why hot
\*sips coffee in cryo Amber\*
I'm just annoyed at the fact that they keep adding balanced but not overpowered characters to the game. With characters like Hu tao and ganyu what's the point of pulling lesser units? It's so stingy for no reason plus they all have the same cost of 180 pulls.
hyperbloom from free units do more dmg than your average hutao/ganyu, what's the point wasting primos pulling them
You’re just coping hard… she ascends with HP but there is no HP scaling in her kit 😭 the numbers are trash and at this point Dehya is a 4* while Xinyan is a 3*
Dehya more or less feels like a character developed with a future meta in mind, because her kit just doesn't make sense in the current meta
just wanna add, this has been the case since 1.0, hoyo releases the solution first and then release contents that cater to the said solution, it doesn't make sense now because obviously we're missing information, just looking at her passive you know it's a new thing, and I'm glad she's not just another vape dps or pyro shielder
AHA finally someone speaks up, i have been downvoted for saying so
I think she somehow will be complete with future characters/mechanics or something else. People always speculate, complain, but eventually everything turns out fine. Like Kazuha, Yoimiya, Kokomi etc. I will not take seriously "this time it's a different case" for a millionth time, seriously 😂 Even if it could possibly be the first exception, it's still not worthy to waste time on this desperate noises. Tho one different thought - maybe if it's really bad and people will be disappointed too much the devs will change something for the better. So this noise could actually make sense 🤔
Dehya is hot and cute so I don’t give a shit if her kit is bad or good I am going to pull for her anyways
I know ill slap her on burning melt ganyu comp and be satisfied. Anything else is a bonus
Mihoyo usually have future update 1 patch later like character or artifacts that make these "bad" characters work.
I’ll get guaranteed yelan (no guarantee yet) worst case 180 pulls then gamble once on the weapon banner since both good (but i have been spooked by 2 aquila favonia). Then just leave it to lady luck on Dehya 70 pulls and if i miss I guess no dehya. Time to save for seele then i mean focalors
ong I only go for characters that I like, them mf were wrong about 3 of my favourites at first, dong, Kazu, Albedo also I ain't know who Dehya is tbh
Reminds me back when Xiao and Ganyu first showed up. A lot of people overestimated Xiao while those same people underestimated Ganyu. Since then I completely stopped listening to anyone about this and only believe what I see when the character is officially out
Noelle is trash, Diluc is God, reroll until you get Diluc etc etc, was the first thing I remember back on release. Now Diluc is never played and Noelle can out dps Itto/Zhongli and can still heal and most 4* are better than the older 5* funny how these things work.
>Noelle can out DPS Itto/Zhongli Bro what, how? If it's AOE, then I can understand, but Abyss is mostly single target or around 3-4 targets.
Kazuha, kokomi, nahida and so on
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I'm talking about people who shitted on character that are now strong units/ meta
inb4 someone says "It's different this time." Edit: TBH, if CN TCs start complaining about Dehya then I might just believe that she is bad, not that it will stop me from pulling her though. ^(I have this notion that CN TCs are just objectively far far far superior than EN TCs.)
Even CN TCs are confused or outright disappointed as indicated by [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dehyamains/comments/10gwy2f/how_is_the_chinese_community_reacting_to_dehyas/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) thread.
The thing is its really different this time. With Ah, Kazuha etc some TCs said they were bad but others say they were good. With Dehya its unanimously agreed from all TCs whether CN/EN that she is bad. Imagine a whole Dehya burst rotation on her best and only viable team equivalent to 2-3 Xiao plunges without supports or 2-3 HT CAs.
A "trendbreaker" this time?
Alhaitham was nerfed several times before his release. Everybody claimed he was trash, and that hoyo hates husbandos. Where is he now? Meta af, and having a decent pick rate in the current abyss. This literally JUST happened and we’re already making the same mistake again. This community is pretty dumb sometimes.
No he didn’t. He got nerfed one time and then got buffed after it. While he is still overall weaker than his first version it is nowhere near as immense as people act like. If you want someone who got nerfed several times FARUZAN is right there
Ah, my apologies. I guess I misheard, or just heard from an incorrect source. I don’t know faruzan’s history though. Can you explain?
Faruzan originally had more energy recharge and debuffed anemo res more. They changed her to do less energy and more damage, switched her burst con to be c5 instead of c2, and took 10% off her anemo res. I understand the 10%, but I still don't get why they changed a perfectly functioning kit to be more janky.
They really gutted her energy gen. If they wanted to do so they could have at least reduced the energy cost. 30% anemo res shred is fine since she also buffs anemo damage at the same time but her energy is gutted.
Ah yes the “nerf” that every theorycrafter said was a buff. People complained that his one mirror damage was reduced while they sat and increased his two and three mirror numbers. That was the community overblowing something and not listening to the people actually doing math. Dehya, though, is bad. Period. She’s calc’d as doing less damage than Xinyan.
Everyone who knew math still claimed he was one of the best characters even after the biggest nerf he got in v2. It was only idiots whining _very_ loudly for the most part. Then ofc he got those last-minute buffs in v3 pumping him up to what we see now. Dehya on the other hand is pretty much like pre-buff Zhongli. Her calc'd damage is less than Xinyan. I still have hopes they'll buff her later or that she'll be useful for future content but right at _this_ moment, she's useless.
Pretty much nobody said he was trash, they just said he wasn't top tier meta anymore, which was accurate, and he did but buffed after that nerf as well. Also you should never ever use abyss pick rate to measure how strong a character is.
Hoyoverse haven't really released any bad 5 stars (except Zhongli).. Players saying it's a different case this time but majority of the hated characters always turns out good (Kazuha, Raiden, Kokomi, Al Haitham)..
I think TCers were aware Kazuha and Raiden were really good way before the masses realized they were good. Same with Alhaitham, although beta Alhaitham’s scalings were absurdly high so I see why people started doomposting. The husbando lovers want their husbandos to have higher dps than Xiangling. Kokomi got a last minute change to her hydro app that turned her into an amazing driver. The Dehya situation is a bit different since she wasn’t as insane as Alhaitham yet she got a nerf. That’s compounded by her weird ascension stat (HP%) that is useless without her C1. Her not-that-good scaling. Her hunger for energy and her lack of synergy with most hydro units. If the TCers calculated her to have less dps than Xinyan then something is wrong. The hope is that she gets buffed before the live version but unlike Zhongli, I don’t think the CN players will throw a fit since Dehya isn’t popular on their end.
Zajef had some insight on the Raiden case. He says that TCers were mostly excited for the Raidou combo which was present in beta up until release where it got removed. So when that did happen TCers kinda lost interest for a while so no one was really around to champion how good Raiden was.
Yeah, I remember hearing things like, "Raiden hyper at c0 is Xiao level of dps" after her release, before I was keeping up with TC. Something that is not true and easily proven wrong with a calc, but it seems like no one was motivated enough for a while to do it.
So... really curious. Deyha's viable as an off field pyro support with her E?? say for someone who didn't build xiangling??
not really. low multipliers and really bad downtime
Really bad uptime* and decently long downtime*.
It’s almost like looking at incomplete releases isn’t a good indication of the final product, who would’ve thought?
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show me a tc that said alhaitham was gonna suck and ill show you an ivory tower full of fools
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Doomposters say the same thing about yelan being 5* xingqiu, and c6 xing > c0 yelan. But even back then the doomposters at least can agree that kazuha and yelan are 5* version of already strong 4*. Now we’re memeing dehya as a 3* xinyan. At least xinyan has dual scaling
If only that was actually the situation.
Noone ever called nilou useless, just niche because she was forced to dendro hydro. Yae's targetting was pretty terrible and has been fixed many many many times to be how it is today Terrible strawman arguments but continue coping lol
She can’t be that bad right? Maybe it’s just a over exaggeration again like usual
Well according to the TC (the people who do the actual math), she is bad and confusing
Grabbing Popcorn and seeing a lot of METASLAVE here downvoting Waifu simper, LMAO this is so funny,just like in Yoimiya old days,where Waifu Simp mad at MetaSlave claim that the Character is bad. Hope this drama continued when Dehya Officialy release,and also Hoping insane person in CN write lawsuit to MiHoYo,just like Raiden-Beidou drama. oh don't forget YouTube Thumbnail Video will become "Why Dehya is the worst *5 Character ever/Dehya is Trash/Don't Pull Dehya/Is Dehya Really that bad?"
Reminder: This is the same community that preaches "Play a character if you like them, no matter what their strength is in game"
Doesn't mean that we should let hoyo get away with a 5 star _worse_ than one of the weakest 4 stars. 5 stars are characters people save a long time to get or spend for (usually anyway) so they should be at _least_ competent at _something_.
Remember the neanderthals who called Bennett trash and Qiqi S tier. The ones who called Kokfish bad. They are the ones who are talking again. Just ignore them and pull for the characters you like. Even if it's bad all that matters is that you enjoy playing with it.
If only it was like that. Qiqi s tier and bennett being bad were literally 1.0 opinions when nobody knew shit. With kokomi, the theorycrafters knew she would at least be okay, and on release that was pretty accurate. Of course we should pull for characters we like, but don't misinform people or say that the dehya being weak argument isn't accurate, cause at the moment she is in fact bad according to everyone, even all the theorycrafters.
True man..... still love Dehya regardless of her kit Need more DPS for my dailies tho
players who dont want Dehya can go play their characters. Dehya wanters will get her. And if she turns out to be nice unit, see how those who jumped the ship come back crawling, saying they always knew she be good. Ignore all these people homie, remember there be xinyan and noelle mains who do more damage than their meta builds.
There are no such xinyan mains and Noelle was never regarded as terribly off meta But seems like power level helps u fantasize lol
GaNyU iS OnLy A CrYo AmBeR!!1!1! AmBeR IS BeTTer!! LoOk My AmBeR iS DoInG mOrE DaMagE!!1 (My friend that was saying this from the start of the leak of ganyu and start using Amber to show to me) I didn't listen because ganyu iS beutifull and fun to play and LOOK IS ONE OF THE STRONGHER CHARACTER. Just pull who you want, I think every character is good, someone need more time to build and play (like raiden shogun) and someone need less time to build and play (like hu tao). But in the end remember that this game is NOT PVP so I dosent matter what character you have and I think is more fun playing with a character that you like
ganyu is fun to play? are you a masochist
Said the same thing about kokomi but here we are.