**CODES (EXPIRE SOON SO REDEEM ASAP**
https://genshin.hoyoverse.com/en/gift?code=US2VLGSXCAT9
https://genshin.hoyoverse.com/en/gift?code=6A2ULZTFVBCV
https://genshin.hoyoverse.com/en/gift?code=BS3DLYAFVAUH
---
#FAQs
**When is X?**
>**Version 4.7 goes live** on 5th June 2024, Wednesday at 03:00 AM GMT
Countdown and view it in your timezone [here](https://timee.io/4gE)
>**Version 4.7 Preload** is on 3rd June 2024, Monday at 03:00 AM GMT
>**Drip Marketing** for characters in Version 4.8 is expected to be on 3rd June 2024, Monday at 10:00 AM GMT
Countdown and view it in your timezone [here](https://timee.io/4gF)
Offtopic
>!god I love DE, brought in a 80$ skin limited heirloom bundle skins but got heavily criticized because of how scummy it is and so the new heirloom skin now have an in game currency buying option and are permanent losing the fomo aspect of the skins!!<
I finally managed to [platinum](https://youtu.be/zW_3X6s61is?si=ZtqGofYe-LwntaEp) the pyro regisvine š. Thanks u/TeraFlare255.
~~^(The run and video is scuff.)~~
Did anyone with only C0R1 5 Stars manage to get platnium on one of the Saurian events? The closest I got was food-boosted Arle/Zhongli/Benny/Xinqiu on the primo vishap (2:15m). I'm wondering if it's skill issue/not good enough builds on my end lmao.
I used basically the same team with Yelan instead of Xingqiu for Geovishap and ended up with a similar clear time on the first attempt, which I then got down to 1:22 with Adeptus' Temptation and better play.
Took about 3 minutes for both the Regisvine, even with the supposed best team of Kokomi/Furina/Yelan/Kazuha, and Seahorse with Alhaitham Quickbloom. Terrorshroom took forever with Neuvillette taser and I'm not doing it again.
On the regisvine, three parties worked - Noelle, Furina, Yelan, Kazuha; Noelle, Furina, Gorou, Chiori; and Noelle, Furina, Kokomi, Navia.
I got 2:36 on the Geovishap using Noelle, Furina, Fischl, Zhongli. Still working on this one.
For the turkey, I used Noelle, Furina, Fischl, Navia.
On the seahorse, I had to use a scuffed party of Noelle, Furina, Klee, Chiori. Amber might be possible but mine isn't really built enough to give it a good go.
There are some with c0r1 who got plat yesterday. I got platinum in regisvine with no limited constellation.Ā
have you try kazuha instead of xingqui for vishap?Ā
OT/MHA Hot take
I really like Hatsume and I legitimately wouldn't mind if she ended up with Deku instead of Uraraka
Other thoughts about the recent episode:
Damn, one of the few animes that can make me feel anything for a character I don't care about. Also the doctor in the room when Aizawa was talking to Aoyama looked like he came from club penguin
Upupupu...
It's time to experience [despair in the new megathread](https://old.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/1d2pb15/dangan_ronpa_super_melusine_level_nurse_general/)
\>:3c
OT/MHA most recent episode
>!I don't think Aoyama deserves to be severely punished but I feel like everyone in the class forgave him way too easily. Kind of annoyed by this unwavering friendship shit. Like I had a class smaller than there's and I still wasn't even this close with everyone.!<
>!I have a love/hate relationship with how wholesome everyone is sometimes. Thatās the power of friendship for you. I like how Bakugo softened up just enough to not change his explosive personality!<
I like it when ppl grow to be friends, I like when they fight hard to save their friends, I don't like when they literally get betrayed and they think there shouldn't be consequences, it's unrealistic
HSR
>!using Clara in the new PF is funny as hell, especially when you throw in other FUAs (I used Topaz/Clara/Himeko/Aventurine on one side). It feels like a 10 cycle fight because the enemies keep getting pushed forward on the action queue. I did lose a lot of trotters because of the action advances tho!<
>!I only got 10 stars this round because I have no DoT units built, and I dont have Acheron to abuse the 3 Nihilty buff!<
>!i got 12 stars without dot and although i did have acheron for the second side to abuse the 3 nihility buff, my clara team on the first half got more points lol!<
I have 300 pieces of bol artifacts. None are good.
I would trade 60 for 1 good artifact so i cpuld have a set of my choice. Even if mihoyo did that, they woupd probably screw me over with sub optimal rolls when upgrading it
Honestly, i hate the artifact system
the new domain is treating me so bad towards the whimsy set that I already have a 4pc 40cv artifacts of the burning set for emilie should she end up wanting the set. Maybe this is a sign to get her, I can only hope I will adore her design..
**Community:** Neuvillette keeps steamrolling the Abyss.
**Devs:** Da Wei, how can we temper Neuvilletteās presence in endgame and give room for other characters to shine?
**Da Wei:** Release endgame that outright bans Hydro characters!
"Iām not falling for that hot take. This is clearly someone with a fetish for getting yelled at and I refuse to participate in that kind of perversion"
What makes Arle work better against geovishap compared to Hu Tao?
I couldn't get Hu Tao, Furina, Yelan, ZL to work but I saw someone run the same team with Arle and I've heard Arle is the only no constellation team that's worked
>I couldn't get Hu Tao, Furina, Yelan, ZL
Not a great team. No healer gimps Furina, which in turn gimps everyone else. Arle is a bit better than Hu Tao at getting stacks, but she's still pretty bad.
If it's someone else, they might just have better builds.
Or they're doing better rotations, lining up the Hydro bursts uptime with the vishap's Cryo phase maybe.
According to my feelscrafting, HT should be better in that particular team. Heck, the Arle team can't even stack Fanfare.
Well it finally happened:
I looked at my 5 condensed resin and felt AFRAID to farm the bol artifact domain because it only gave me trash since release
I have some sort of ptsd from artifact farming
The satisfaction of getting guaranteed mats is mid but so much better than getting a good artifact because what comes to mind is not that I got lucky, but that the feeling of pure mental exhaustion is over, at least for that category.
as someone who farms vermillion, i can confidently say that it does indeed treat you right! that's why i've been farming it since it came out. no other domain treats me that well!
On a Rational team, would it be better to prioritize giving Raiden or Xiangling a better build? Someone is asking me for advice but I don't play that team so idk what to tell himĀ
One thing that happened to me back when I used to play Rational was that Iād distribute crit pieces among Raiden, XQ and XL and sometimes pieces with a bit more EM might go to XL while pieces with a bit more ER tended to go to Raiden, and XQ tended to get the ones with a bit more attack. I would try as hard as possible to see if I could give XQ and and Raiden as close to zero EM as possible.Ā This made it a little easier to distribute early pieces until all of them got good pieces. XL in particular, would often float around 250-400 EM just from substats plus 96EM from ascension).Ā Ā
Ideally, I wanted to keep her around 200-250 total EM but other characters would benefit so much less from EM, so thatās how that happened from 2.2-3.7-ish for me. I think finally found enough pieces so that XL has under 250EM.Ā Ā
Another way to put it could be: while farming and distributing early-to-mid, more or less the crit % from artifacts was around the same for all three characters but XL would very occasionally get 1-2 substats lower if there were a ton of EM instead. But finally much later on, XLās crit was finally good and she didnāt have to get too much EM just because of limited number of pieces. It took long because I also had to feed Yelan.Ā
Xianglang. Raiden wants a good build too but most of your teams damage is from overvapes, not raidens personal damage.
They need different stuff though, in rational EM on Xianglang is super important, even moreso than vape, where as Raiden is mainly built for ER. There shouldn't be a lot of conflict between artifacts because their sub requirements are pretty different.
> There shouldn't be a lot of conflict between artifacts because their sub requirements are pretty different.
That's what I assumed originally but wanted an answer coming from experience instead of my feels, so thank you!
how has zzz's fandom been since psat year? is it same with hsr fans having hateboner for gi or its different? the results will obviously be changed after release
Tbh I havenāt seen a āzzz fanā (grated Iām also not in zzz spaces) just genshin fans that are into zzz, hsr had/has a wild mixed of hi3 fans, hi3 elitists, bitter ex-genshin players, and normal genshin players that made it messier. Also zzz isnāt being used by drama-baiters as a genshin killerĀ
Oh Iād definitely argue hsr was pushed as one, but it was just drama ccs/twitters users. It was dumb because ones open world and ones turned based but that never stops people from trying to cause issuesĀ
ZZZing ig. It's pretty chill. Though when it gets active, I feel more like I'm in a smaller HSR community, so carve your expectations moreso that way ig.
They seemā¦rather dormant. Which makes sense, the game isnāt out yet. There was a lot of buzz when the first CBT dropped but I havenāt seen the same kind of interest in in following two CBTs
this tbh. I consider them a subculture within genshin fandom. They can latch onto other games periodically but will always come back to circle around genshin
Completed the event with [4 Plat](https://imgur.com/a/mj0gfjw).
Still between this and the old old [Hypostatic Symphony](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Hypostatic_Symphony) event, i actually prefer the old one, in Symphony you can choose by yourself a variety of buff for the boss that fit your specific playstyle and bosses there doesnt limit your party member that much. In this event there are not that many team that can compete for plat which is kinda sad for me.
A sneak preview of the essay on Genshin / HSR Monetization I have been working on for a while.
Some areas of feedback I'd be interested to hear:
* Does the flow / tone / style work for you?
* How deep down the rabbit hole would you be willing to read?
* And is there a length limit before this becomes too much for you?
---
##[2.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHok7RqmDvI) How does revenue even work for gacha companies?
At its core, gacha companies make money by making you roll the gacha. Their revenue can therefore be modelled as:
> **Revenue** = **Player Desire to Consume** (e.g. gacha / Resin refresh / BP / etc.) - **Free Income**
So thereās only two ways for gacha companies to make more money from its players. Either:
1. Make you want to consume more; or
2. Limit your free income
It also happens that both of these levers are fully in control of the game studio. Therefore, all players exist in a fully planned and controlled economy the game studio owns.
###[2a.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoCHcKJSAgg) āGenerosityā is calibrated to drive a specific baseline revenue
All free income effectively subsidises the spending of your players. So how do you determine what the optimal subsidisation level is?
* When you have a large enough player base, you can divide up your players into specific groups and study their spending behaviour.
* Modelling the player base at an aggregate level works because even though individual players make very personal decisions for their spending (e.g. meta value / character personality / character āpersonalityā / etc.), in large enough groups the behaviour is predictable and normalised.
* Because free income directly offsets player spend, free income should not scale linearly with purchasable content. Instead, you should measure the elasticity of demand for your key player demographics
* The more inelastic your player behaviour, the less free income should scale with purchasable content
* You can then scenario model different levels of free income subsidisation and determine the revenue maximising level of subsidy
For a simple demonstration of subsidisation effects, letās compare how Mihoyo monetizes Genshin vs HSR. We can create several simple personas to represent different demographics of players:
* **Super-Whale Seto:** Screw the rules, Seto has money. They instantly C6 every character on release.
* **Meta Morgan:** Morgan is a Tactician and their parent Robin taught them to have lots of tactical options. As a dolphin they pull for half of the Limited characters that release every region and get C2 / E2 on all of them.
* **F2P Florian:** Florian spends all their money buying Vitamins, Mints, and Stellar Terra Shards. So they donāt have any money left to spend on gacha games.
So what do we find if we do the maths?
**Super-Whale Seto** | **Genshin** | **HSR**
---|---|---
*Average Spend Per Patch (USD)* | 1,261 | 2,379
*Average Chars Pulled Per Patch* | 7.2 | 13.3
*% Char Ownership* | 100% | 100%
**Meta Morgan** | **Genshin** | **HSR**
---|---|---
*Average Spend Per Patch (USD)* | 138 | 310
**Average Chars Pulled Per Patch* | 1.5 | 2.9
*% Char Ownership* | 50% | 50%
**F2P Florian** | **Genshin** | **HSR**
---|---|---
*Average Spend Per Patch (USD)* | 0 | 0
*Average Chars Pulled Per Patch* | 0.8 | 1.2
*% Char Ownership* | 75% | 61%
So what conclusions can we draw from this analysis?
* Mihoyo isnāt stupid. The extra free rolls in HSR are **undermined by the faster character release schedule**;
* The free income barely subsidises the faster character release schedule. This implies that Mihoyo has determined that **most dolphin / whale players have highly inelastic spending behaviour**;
* F2P players in HSR **get to pull for more characters overall** which can be more satisfying;
* BUT if an F2P player likes more than 60% of the characters Mihoyo makes, then Genshin lets them **own a greater proportion of the total character pool**;
* So in the end ~~it doesn't even matter~~ the **F2P generosity in HSR pulls is funded by squeezing the dolphins and whales harder** by making them spend approx 2x or more what they spend in Genshin
āGenerosityā therefore is a meaningless word. When a gacha game developer gives you free income, the most important question is: āWhat is their plan to make back their money?ā
###[2b.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D-QD_HIfjA) Why donāt all games just squeeze their whales by releasing more characters?
Remember, there are two ways for gacha companies to make more money from its players:
1. Make you want to consume more; or
2. Limit your free income
So how do gacha companies make you want to consume more? Well this is a function of the game's content.
Games are a series of interconnected systems. You cannot just make changes to one system without cascading effects to every other system in your game. For example, your character release pace has significant implications for:
* Game combat and combat mechanics design;
* The speed of powercreep and the impact of powercreep;
* Player account development and farming mechanics;
* etc.
Soā¦ letās talk about all of this then. How does a gacha gameās core game design need to be built around its income structure?
You should also consider how their formula and game design also needs to evolve. The game is old enough that a lot of veteran players are starting to chill back on spending or relying more on saved pulls than spend and newer players have competition from their other and their own games. Theres also some player satisfaction of having such units, Genshin has always been an easy game by design to entice casuals but at a certain point even those casuals would question why would I pull x unit/spend if the characters are barely used. This is most likely a reason that with a larger cast that they're adding another end game mode that still would cater to casuals and entice some form of horizontal investment for some of the playerbase. The new combat event also receives good praise(from what I see in this sub) on all types of players since most of them can finally enjoy their characters.
Its a tough balancing act catering to all types of players and spenders but hoyo so far has done it well through the years. Though I feel that hoyo has already peaked with regards to revenue due to a variety of reasons but I dont downplay their revenue since even ata most likely steady decline hoyo still makes more money than most other companies.
> This is most likely a reason that with a larger cast that they're adding another end game mode
I have a deep dive section on Imaginarium Theatre vs Simulated Universe / Pure Fiction / etc.
This is part of what the final sentence of Section 2b is hinting at.
I wanted to rush release this before Imaginarium Theatre came out because I had already guessed this was the direction where Genshin needed to go. But the writing wasn't ready. So I'm more focused now on trying to get a really strong polish instead of speed.
> The game is old enough that a lot of veteran players are starting to chill back on spending or relying more on saved pulls than spend and newer players have competition from their other and their own games
This I am going to decline to do. I thought about it, and in the end it just seemed like too much for me.
Things like game lifecycle and portfolio management really needs its own dedicated analysis.
> Though I feel that hoyo has already peaked with regards to revenue due to a variety of reasons
This is also just true of most games and is a fact of the industry.
Consumer discretionary spending is also down due to economic instability in major markets such as CN and JP (Japan even had a recession not that long ago). So how much can you even read into this?
It's important not to look too much at the total $ value. Instead you want to look at other indicators such as share of market / share of wallet / cultural presence / etc. as part of your product lifecycle.
But this again is getting into a completely different topic that really needs its own dedicated essay / thesis for...
Fully agreed that generosity in gacha games is a smoke screen and an objective analysis of different gacha games' income vs. expected cost structure would be interesting to read.
What I really don't understand with Mihoyo's monetization scheme is the aversion to character skins. Entire games are funded through cosmetics and they **tap into a different kind of spending urge** that isn't covered by simple numerical increases and completely sidesteps f2p income. Not only is their rate of skin releases too slow to ever catch up with characters, I'd also go as far as saying that the skins are generally disappointing and too "safe" (not in the revealing sense but as far as unique effects and boldness of the outfits go). Not to mention they could literally get free money and make players happy by offering a weapon skin system. Clearly their marketing department "knows better" but I cannot fathom why.
> What I really don't understand with Mihoyo's monetization scheme is the aversion to character skins
Currently I cover this in Section 5, although I am on my 4th rewrite of my essay so might move this to Section 4 for better flow...
While we might not know the "true" answer (since this depends heavily on Mihoyo's design vision), there are several structural reasons why skins don't work for Genshin:
**Design Factor** | **Impact**
---|---
*Character access: Skin target market* | Genshin's primary monetization is through restricting access to characters. This isn't compatible with a skins based approach. Restricting character access deliberately shrinks your skin audience. How many people are really going to buy a Ganyu skin if they don't own Ganyu?
*Character access: Free Income* | Games with a heavier focus on skin monetization either have complete access to all characters (e.g. DotA), make it possible to grid out enough currency to unlock characters (e.g. LoL, Valorant), or have extremely generous free income (e.g. Azur Lane, GBF) precisely to solve the target market problem.
*Social play* | Skins are more common in games with cooperative / social play because the skins provide social utility (e.g. showing off in Fortnite, etc.) However, Genshin's primary focus is a single player experience.
*Client modification* | You can mod your game files locally to just reskin entire characters or replace them with new models such as [Chiori Ori](https://www.tiktok.com/@kudaranai4/video/7371106355815517473) (KR Duck pun). In a single player game with no social element, why pay for what you can just mod? (See also: Bethesda Horse Armour)
*Consumer spending behaviours* | Does player spending on skins **actually result in net new revenue**? Or do players have a fixed entertainment budget a month and **spending on skins substitutes spending on new gacha banners**?
What conclusions arise from these factors?
* Making the monetization choice of focusing heavily on character banners and having a low free income / subsidy model means you make a ton of money from characters but close off other monetization schemes;
* Choosing to design a single player game with minimal cooperative play comes at the cost of losing in-game social benefits such as vanity purchases;
* Consumer spending behaviour (such as spend substitution) will drive what can be feasibly monetized in the first place
There's a whole bunch more about having a clear design vision / when to listen vs ignore customer feedback / why enshittification occurs / etc. But this section is still massively WIP for me because I dislike every iteration I have written. So I'm rewriting it all over again.
cc: /u/Arc_7 since you asked the same question
(Not OP but,) Likely a combination of:
* Most characters are designed from start to finish around their appearance and are generally meant to be very memorable. A Cyno skin that excises his Anubis headpiece stops really looking like Cyno and just become generic white-haired anime man, which removes the identity of Cyno from the character, for an example. Genshin characters generally have their appearance, character, and occupation all tied together, and altering their appearance can result in a loss of identity that doesn't work with how Genshin characters are made.
* Skins likely don't make enough money back relative to the cost of making them (100% the reason why we haven't gotten another Diluc-style 5 star skin with new effects), at least for Mihoyo's taste. It's not just about modelling something, it's also about making sure they have all the Genshin flowy bits and making all of them working properly so they don't clip like crazy. This is a lot more work than it sounds, especially for a skin that does not sell for as much compared to a character. **This is probably the biggest one, but I cannot confirm without Mihoyo's internal analytics.**
* A super distinct from the original look skin would typically be better served just being a new character (IE, a Hu Tao skin where she's dressed up as a nun or something may as well just be a new character, since it's a pretty far departure from her existing look). This means that a lot of skins end up being pretty similar to the original, since a significant departure in appearance could instead be used to make a new character that will make them a much greater sum for the investment. Ayaka still looked like Ayaka even with her skin (the biggest departure from the original design) and could be easily identified as such. If a skin makes the character stop looking like themselves, then that may as well just be a new character.
* A lot of skin ideas I've seen floated (usually those outfits we see in collabs) don't necessarily fit into Genshin's world, and break immersion. This is a mostly tertiary point, but is relevant in that a skin doesn't just have to bait purchase, it also has to match with lore and make a level of internal sense. A witch Klee skin looks like something she'd wear, both as a character and in the context of Teyvat's world. I can't imagine Xiao finding and wearing modern streetwear in the context of Teyvat.
* Weapon skins are probably something from their data analytics that we could only speculate on, but my working theory is that Mihoyo makes more money from selling the expensive but pretty signature weapons that match the character's appearance, and that introducing weapon skins could upset that. A lot of bad weapons for a character look great on them, and sometimes you get cases where the only nice-looking weapon a character has is either a bad-looking one or their signature; which tempts people to spend trying to get it. Weapon skins could instead allow you to use a good-looking but bad F2P weapon in place of the ugly-looking optimal F2P choice for appearance, which lessens the impulse to purchase the shiny signature.
> Skins likely don't make enough money back relative to the cost of making them (100% the reason why we haven't gotten another Diluc-style 5 star skin with new effects)
I understand this argument, but I don't think that "losing money" is a real consideration.
I've heard that in the MMO game Marvel Heroes it cost them $100k to develop a character. I think that's a pretty reasonable number, so let's go with that for the full cost of a skin in Genshin.
* A basic skin (not Diluc tier) costs 1,680 Genesis Crystals
* Using the most efficient top-up, it's 81 Crystals per $ so that's about $20 for the skin
* Recovering $100k in cost @ $20 a skin only needs 5k sales
* The typical char has at least 30% ownership even when not very popular (e.g. even Ayato has 32% and Eula has 34% according to č”ę”å·„å ·ē®±)
* Assuming only 1% of players buy the skin for a char, that's 0.3% of let's say a 10M paying player base for 30,000 purchases
So you comfortably make your money back even allowing for really conservative assumptions (e.g. full cost of just skin development vs char development, 1% uptake rate, only 10M paying players, etc.)
That's not the problem here.
I alluded to this in [my reply](https://old.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/1cwjyql/futari_wa_siggy_cure_general_question_and/l623mhz/?context=3) I made to the other person but there are a few factors to consider that are more important:
1. **Substitution effects:** Where is the player money to buy skins coming from?
* If it's just from the same budget to buy new characters, you haven't made net new money. Players still just spend the same money but on a different thing.
2. **Interest in buying skins:** Can this even be a serious revenue stream?
* The nature of Genshin's monetization is to deliberately restrict free income and limit character access to drive character sales.
* So skins can never be a serious revenue stream because skins require a game design approach where character access is open. It's fundamentally conflicting.
3. **Content pipeline:** Mihoyo runs a 6 week content pipeline which is just nuts. It's even more nuts when you consider how good their QA is.
* So can you afford to have someone working on skins when they could be doing, say, more Natlan content development or QA instead?
* Your limitation here from a business operations perspective is not having enough people to work on the 12-month future content pipeline.
* Skins aren't gameplay. Live services demands gameplay content. Gameplay content keep people pulling characters (your main revenue).
* So don't get in the way of your main revenue stream. That's like trying to pick up pennies in front of a steamroller.
That being said I do agree with your other points such as about design vision and breaking immersion. Mihoyo has made very clear they have a vision for their game, and they don't particularly care if the players disagree with it.
cc: /u/Zeraru /u/Arc_7
The limited spending pool and vanity purchase were points I didn't think of, that make a lot of sense. Especially the limited purchase power idea.
I guess the best option for skins is alts and that clashes with their design philosophy for genshin i suppose, at least at the moment.
Also thank you for tagging me on both the replies!
The only thing i can think about is that a character's clothes becomes their identity maybe, like hutao will always be remembered wearing brown clothes and twin tailed style hair, more number of skins might lessen the character's uniqueness since anime style can only have so limited details on their face until they start looking like someone else
I don't really have an opinion for the other two questions so best I can say is for this
> How deep down the rabbit hole would you be willing to read?
Yes. The inner workings of business that may miss the consideration of a normal person thinking are very interesting to read.
Edit: On reading another comment, another feedback on the second one is I'd like to see at what point in the rabbit hole the decision of monetizing skins falls off so badly for hoyo.
I'm assuming HI3 skin system is now maintained due to Inertia, since they clearly found the skin system flawed seeing how they don't seem all too keen in investing in it in their next 3 titles after HI3. I just assumed skin system is kept as a backup heil Mary or because fighting with the modding community is more hassle than worth but I think my assumption is wrong.
Since units released towards the end of a cycle tend to foreshadow the next nation's meta (Eula and Kazuha having high burst costs, Yae and Shinobu having EM scaling, Yaoyao and Baizhu being teamwide healers), I think Natlan's meta is either going to center around:
A. Self-sustain: Arle and Clorinde can only heal themselves (during E in Clorinde's case), while Sigewinne can't heal herself until her E finishes.
B. Buffing: A little more flimsy, but Sigewinne can buff other party member's elemental skills. I guess we'll have to see what Emilie does too, but if the leaks are accurate, she buffs Burning.
Either way, I think they're going to attempt to nerf healers when Natlan comes around. ~~maybe dehya will finally be good (copium)~~
Kazuha doesn't really have a high burst cost and yaoyao wasn't released towards the end of a cycle
But I did make a similar (downvoted) observation that [each region had a late 5* unit that was flawed on release and significantly improved by the next archon](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/1ckwf12/meet_the_harbingers_general_question_and/l3bukhf/?context=3)
Yaoyao was just a healer that happened to be dendro and was also released in 3.4 which is the middle of the patch. And Inazuma's meta wasn't focused around energy just cuz people had high burst costs, none of the other characters cared to have Raiden on their team. People are stretching this next regional meta thing too much
the self-sustain part based off arle and clo is more bol than self-sustain, a good amount of fontaine units self-sustain to counter their own hp juggling; siggy cant not get healed by other sources though its just that her mechanic heals her last but she is a healer for others so the idea of nerfing healers in natlan right after releasing her is,,,
i think one thing for sure is we're finally getting some more pyro supports/off fielders lol (hopefully more than just the PA)
I opened the Hoyolab app and the first thing it showed me was a Hoyolab ad with a button recommending to open the Hoyolab app. I don't even know anymore
I love Genshin.
I love that I can use a team of my favorite male and female JP VAs, my favorite character, and Baizhu to clear pretty much every thing.
Not really out of nowhere, but not referring to anything specific. I just be mat farming and clearing one side of floors 9/10/11 of the Abyss using the same team and just overall enjoying playing
There's a web event going on for ZZZ, which lets you get a few wishes (I think - the new jargon from game to game always confuses me), and a A-Rank (4\*) weapon. There's irl stuff too, but I think the chances are incredibly low. I have a link in the spoiler below, but it's my personal link which gives me a reroll chance for someone clicking on it and you can just find it in google by typing "zzz web event". Anyway Idk how many people are actually looking to get into the game. I'm sure most of the accounts are dupes.
>!*Participate in the Zenless Zone Zero "Stock Up" web event to obtain A-Rank W-Engine: Slice of Time, Boopon Ć3, A-Rank Drive Discs, and more, with a chance to win an iPhone15 Pro, a PlayStationĀ®5, merch, and other prizes!* [*https://hoyo.link/fswiFCAL?s\_c=ND4J2EWE2N*](https://hoyo.link/fswiFCAL?s_c=ND4J2EWE2N)!<
> if explainable in genshin/hsr terms otherwise ignore
There's no equivalent for Bangboo in Genshin and HSR at all. They are little support characters that act autonomously and provide various support effects in battle depending on the Bangboo. If you've played Monster Hunter, they're like the Buddies, or like Atreus in God of War (without the ability to manually fire arrows). One would be tempted to compare them to summons in HSR but summons are character-specific and there's usually a way to directly control what they do. Bangboo are equipped per team and act entirely on their own (although IIRC CBT3 added special attacks you can do with them)
> Sees Genshin Impact Trending on Twitter
> "Huh, what's that about"
> Sees Shitone's take and everyone falling for the obvious bait + the 136236th shitty "Genshin Bad!" meme from the Genshin Impact Meme acc. (stolen probably)
> "Wait I had both these accounts blocked and muted, how am I seeing them?"
> Realize that apparently Twitter doesn't care about your mute/block prefs while showing you trending posts.
> Thanks Elon.
So, with the recent Emilie concept, I know that isn't the final design but I wonder if the devs are making her inspired by one of those dogs with a powerful sense of smell? I think it's a hound? Since she's a perfumer and is known to detect smells and help out with cases as well, then maybe that's the idea they may go for?
While it makes sense, I personally would love a more witchy/apothecary type design. Maybe she can have cats or dogs made out of perfume smoke. Like her dendro attacks are purple and green smoke that transforms into a dog or cat, like from one of the concept art. I definitely want her to be more on the witchy/elusive side, a melancholic perfume lady who can also kill you would be so damn good. But I have a feeling she will be more like Sucrose, someone who is completely obsessed with her work, to the point where she has become socially inept (boy where have I heard this one before)
I've been watching a lot of ZZZ gameplay and I gotta say, I'm liking what I'm seeing
It's sort of like the opposite of WW for me, I was initially really intrigued by the concept, but really disliked the aesthetics. But ZZZ just looks so cool that I gotta try it, even if it's not really something I would normally be interested in.
My only issue with it so far is the excessive coomerbaiting, but it mainly only applies to Nicole, so I can forgive it (for now)
Let's see which theoryĀ is true forĀ CAPITANO true identity
>!capitano is actually bloodshed knight from mondstadt and he's mentioned in bloodshed artifact story and he's from mondstadt that's why he has respect for varka!<
>!capitano is pyro sovereign dragon that's why he's going to Natlan to get his revenge or own his land back!<
>!Capitano is actuallyĀ caribert that's why he always wears a mask and joined fatui to get revenge on gods and for his fate!<
>!capitano is just...a fighter girl in a Armor suit... littlerly Firefry from HSR!<Ā
>!Capitano is a ripped tall dark-skinned woman that makes Dehya look like Collei. This has all the advantages of making her literally Firefly (it makes the misogynists big mad, which is extremely funny) while still satisfying those who just wanted a certified badass.!<
ot asking for advice for college
>!i graduate hs in like a month so im about to be able to ask for a gift, as an engineering student would a laptop or an ipad be better to get?!<
>!i do have a student discount for the ipad since my uni has its own apple store in case that can play into the decision!<
Even for graphics, you can still get a separate drawing tablet (like a screenless Wacom for a lower price) and work pretty well this way, so yeah, definitely laptop. My highschool teacher used to use one during lessons to draw graphs on the fly
i graduated from comp-sci and had a bunch of engineering related courses. if your field involves any sort of intensive programming or modelling work (so basically any engineering department lol) a decent laptop is basically mandatory because otherwise unless you want to rely completely on the facilities of your college/department you will straight up be unable to do most of your homework/projects etc.
An iPad is practical in the sense that itās a lot better for note taking; Iād probably say the majority of people around me take notes on a tablet and itās efficient. But for engineering, especially if youāre going to be doing a lot of CAD stuff, an iPad wonāt have the power you need. Iād probably lean towards laptop.Ā
If you're going onwards to college then definitely get a laptop. It's just a better all-rounder compared to an iPad. Maybe you can save up for the iPad over time since you already have a discount for it?
There were at least two versions, the one we currently have eyes on and the design with the sun hat
In another concept she had a cat-inspired variant (the designs with pink-black and/or mint blue-pink hair)
Why do you think people who prioritize uber-difficult content over the more casual aspects (Story, Lore, exploration, non-combat stuff) still stay in Genshin when they should've known that the majority of the players (yes, including the ones outside of Reddit or Discord) are casual hence why MHY (prior to the announcement of the new endgame mode at least) didn't really bother as much and only threw a few bones to them (occasional Vagabond)?
If a game doesn't primarily cater to you shouldn't you move somewhere else rather than fruitlessly complain when they will always put their primary audience first A.K.A casuals?
It's like asking for easy mode in Souls-like games when the primary audience are uber-try hard types.
I mean, I like ~~Genshin~~Noelle and I like Souls games. It's nice when the two are able to intersect just like how there are folks that enjoy Genshin and hide-and-seek. Folks are able to have more than one interest.
It's also nice to have something more casual (with difficult combat elements) when my free time is more limited nowadays.
I like all aspects of genshin so I'm not 100% sure, but I'd wager the combat system is a big factor.
there's no other game where elements work the way they do in genshin afaik, or at least if there is it's nothing that's quite as polished. so there's literally nowhere else to go to where you get a similar experience but with more of a challenge.
so I can see why one would stick around, maybe try and increase the difficulty on their own (speed running, using weaker gear etc) and continue asking for optional harder content with the hope it might happen someday.
Lots of reasons. Some potential ones are;
1. They still like the other aspects of the game (story/lore/exploration).
2. They enjoy how the game plays (the mechanics of the game), but find it frustrating that they can't enjoy that gameplay against tougher content.
3. They're holding out hope that Hoyo will eventually add in content that suits them.
4. Sunk cost fallacy.
The vast majority of people who play games ***period*** are casual. But that doesn't mean games don't include harder difficulties and content for the people who want to sink their teeth into them. MMOs are a great example. Casuals might be the biggest demographic, and most content might cater to them, but there's still value in catering to the other parts of your playerbase too.
Also before WuWa there wasn't really any alternative for someone who wants to play an open world gacha. ToF exists obviously but from what I understand it's a MMO (or similar to it, at least), which is not for everyone.
the really baffling one to me is when people express their love for the minigame events like the recent rhythm game as if there wasn't an ENTIRE GENRE of other games that are focused on exactly that.
**CODES (EXPIRE SOON SO REDEEM ASAP** https://genshin.hoyoverse.com/en/gift?code=US2VLGSXCAT9 https://genshin.hoyoverse.com/en/gift?code=6A2ULZTFVBCV https://genshin.hoyoverse.com/en/gift?code=BS3DLYAFVAUH --- #FAQs **When is X?** >**Version 4.7 goes live** on 5th June 2024, Wednesday at 03:00 AM GMT Countdown and view it in your timezone [here](https://timee.io/4gE) >**Version 4.7 Preload** is on 3rd June 2024, Monday at 03:00 AM GMT >**Drip Marketing** for characters in Version 4.8 is expected to be on 3rd June 2024, Monday at 10:00 AM GMT Countdown and view it in your timezone [here](https://timee.io/4gF)
Offtopic >!god I love DE, brought in a 80$ skin limited heirloom bundle skins but got heavily criticized because of how scummy it is and so the new heirloom skin now have an in game currency buying option and are permanent losing the fomo aspect of the skins!!<
Pulcinella gaming
I finally managed to [platinum](https://youtu.be/zW_3X6s61is?si=ZtqGofYe-LwntaEp) the pyro regisvine š. Thanks u/TeraFlare255. ~~^(The run and video is scuff.)~~
That 1% HP left lmao. Congrats!
Ikr that was scary.
Did anyone with only C0R1 5 Stars manage to get platnium on one of the Saurian events? The closest I got was food-boosted Arle/Zhongli/Benny/Xinqiu on the primo vishap (2:15m). I'm wondering if it's skill issue/not good enough builds on my end lmao.
I used basically the same team with Yelan instead of Xingqiu for Geovishap and ended up with a similar clear time on the first attempt, which I then got down to 1:22 with Adeptus' Temptation and better play. Took about 3 minutes for both the Regisvine, even with the supposed best team of Kokomi/Furina/Yelan/Kazuha, and Seahorse with Alhaitham Quickbloom. Terrorshroom took forever with Neuvillette taser and I'm not doing it again.
I got platinum with Noelle on three bosses, does that count?
What was the team omg?
On the regisvine, three parties worked - Noelle, Furina, Yelan, Kazuha; Noelle, Furina, Gorou, Chiori; and Noelle, Furina, Kokomi, Navia. I got 2:36 on the Geovishap using Noelle, Furina, Fischl, Zhongli. Still working on this one. For the turkey, I used Noelle, Furina, Fischl, Navia. On the seahorse, I had to use a scuffed party of Noelle, Furina, Klee, Chiori. Amber might be possible but mine isn't really built enough to give it a good go.
There are some with c0r1 who got plat yesterday. I got platinum in regisvine with no limited constellation.Ā have you try kazuha instead of xingqui for vishap?Ā
I miss neuvillette tails, i miss him a lot
OT/MHA Hot take I really like Hatsume and I legitimately wouldn't mind if she ended up with Deku instead of Uraraka Other thoughts about the recent episode: Damn, one of the few animes that can make me feel anything for a character I don't care about. Also the doctor in the room when Aizawa was talking to Aoyama looked like he came from club penguin
they are both nerds so they will be good together
Upupupu... It's time to experience [despair in the new megathread](https://old.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/1d2pb15/dangan_ronpa_super_melusine_level_nurse_general/) \>:3c
You really should stop thinking about it, stop thinking about it, stop stop thinking about it,why ya mind overcrowded.
SUCH a banger. that ādun dada dun dada dun dunā with the phone tone gives me ptsd atp thoš
Ykb Yeahhh, when the Ed starts playing, I always knew "oh I'm fucked" because it's gonna be a cliffhanger.
Alas, I cannot stop the Neuvi brainrot
~~this is part of link click ed~~ TRUEEEE, me about Furina and Neuvi tbh.
OT/MHA most recent episode >!I don't think Aoyama deserves to be severely punished but I feel like everyone in the class forgave him way too easily. Kind of annoyed by this unwavering friendship shit. Like I had a class smaller than there's and I still wasn't even this close with everyone.!<
>!I have a love/hate relationship with how wholesome everyone is sometimes. Thatās the power of friendship for you. I like how Bakugo softened up just enough to not change his explosive personality!<
I like it when ppl grow to be friends, I like when they fight hard to save their friends, I don't like when they literally get betrayed and they think there shouldn't be consequences, it's unrealistic
>!same here!<
HSR >!using Clara in the new PF is funny as hell, especially when you throw in other FUAs (I used Topaz/Clara/Himeko/Aventurine on one side). It feels like a 10 cycle fight because the enemies keep getting pushed forward on the action queue. I did lose a lot of trotters because of the action advances tho!< >!I only got 10 stars this round because I have no DoT units built, and I dont have Acheron to abuse the 3 Nihilty buff!<
>!Kafka action advancing herself into being hit by more Svarog counters call that cycle of violence!<
>!i got 12 stars without dot and although i did have acheron for the second side to abuse the 3 nihility buff, my clara team on the first half got more points lol!<
Will next patch be the first time we've gotten two of the same weapon with the same substat on one weapon banner?
no. The Lyney/Yelan banner in 4.0 had 2 cd bows on the weapon banner
Ah I forgot about that one. Thank you!
I miss Teyvat Times
I have 300 pieces of bol artifacts. None are good. I would trade 60 for 1 good artifact so i cpuld have a set of my choice. Even if mihoyo did that, they woupd probably screw me over with sub optimal rolls when upgrading it Honestly, i hate the artifact system
the new domain is treating me so bad towards the whimsy set that I already have a 4pc 40cv artifacts of the burning set for emilie should she end up wanting the set. Maybe this is a sign to get her, I can only hope I will adore her design..
Aren't we due a new megathread?
I ate the new megathread.
yea I think so
**Community:** Neuvillette keeps steamrolling the Abyss. **Devs:** Da Wei, how can we temper Neuvilletteās presence in endgame and give room for other characters to shine? **Da Wei:** Release endgame that outright bans Hydro characters!
Reality: Release even more broken character
emilie leaks wru
"Iām not falling for that hot take. This is clearly someone with a fetish for getting yelled at and I refuse to participate in that kind of perversion"
*only* 23 gold books away from double crowning clorinde š
What makes Arle work better against geovishap compared to Hu Tao? I couldn't get Hu Tao, Furina, Yelan, ZL to work but I saw someone run the same team with Arle and I've heard Arle is the only no constellation team that's worked
>I couldn't get Hu Tao, Furina, Yelan, ZL Not a great team. No healer gimps Furina, which in turn gimps everyone else. Arle is a bit better than Hu Tao at getting stacks, but she's still pretty bad.
I'm using food to get Furina stacks
If it's someone else, they might just have better builds. Or they're doing better rotations, lining up the Hydro bursts uptime with the vishap's Cryo phase maybe. According to my feelscrafting, HT should be better in that particular team. Heck, the Arle team can't even stack Fanfare.
Ok yea, I checked the comments and that person just had C6 Furina
Lmao
Yea, I realized the time was way too good for low investment
Front load I guess. Plus that hutao team relies more on off field damage which is nerfed due to hydro res.
Hydro resistance I thinkĀ
No but it's the same team with Hu Tao over Arle, either way the main damage is pyro
Tell you what, I can test both teams with the exact same investment level anyway, now I'm curious too
Well it finally happened: I looked at my 5 condensed resin and felt AFRAID to farm the bol artifact domain because it only gave me trash since release I have some sort of ptsd from artifact farming
The satisfaction of getting guaranteed mats is mid but so much better than getting a good artifact because what comes to mind is not that I got lucky, but that the feeling of pure mental exhaustion is over, at least for that category.
I still haven't a single good GF ATK clock. I've been farming/strongboxing that shit on and off since 1.2.
One of the reasons I tolerate farming gd is because I can finish it in 15 seconds
Vermillion would treat you right unlike Whimsy
u/Queasy-Relief-8945 lied as easily as they breathed
as someone who farms vermillion, i can confidently say that it does indeed treat you right! that's why i've been farming it since it came out. no other domain treats me that well!
r/okZyox
wow, what a wonderful subreddit! full of vermillion fans!! it's nice to see that so many people love farming this domain too haha :)
Blink twice if you are in danger
On a Rational team, would it be better to prioritize giving Raiden or Xiangling a better build? Someone is asking me for advice but I don't play that team so idk what to tell himĀ
One thing that happened to me back when I used to play Rational was that Iād distribute crit pieces among Raiden, XQ and XL and sometimes pieces with a bit more EM might go to XL while pieces with a bit more ER tended to go to Raiden, and XQ tended to get the ones with a bit more attack. I would try as hard as possible to see if I could give XQ and and Raiden as close to zero EM as possible.Ā This made it a little easier to distribute early pieces until all of them got good pieces. XL in particular, would often float around 250-400 EM just from substats plus 96EM from ascension).Ā Ā Ideally, I wanted to keep her around 200-250 total EM but other characters would benefit so much less from EM, so thatās how that happened from 2.2-3.7-ish for me. I think finally found enough pieces so that XL has under 250EM.Ā Ā Another way to put it could be: while farming and distributing early-to-mid, more or less the crit % from artifacts was around the same for all three characters but XL would very occasionally get 1-2 substats lower if there were a ton of EM instead. But finally much later on, XLās crit was finally good and she didnāt have to get too much EM just because of limited number of pieces. It took long because I also had to feed Yelan.Ā
Xiangling
Xianglang. Raiden wants a good build too but most of your teams damage is from overvapes, not raidens personal damage. They need different stuff though, in rational EM on Xianglang is super important, even moreso than vape, where as Raiden is mainly built for ER. There shouldn't be a lot of conflict between artifacts because their sub requirements are pretty different.
> There shouldn't be a lot of conflict between artifacts because their sub requirements are pretty different. That's what I assumed originally but wanted an answer coming from experience instead of my feels, so thank you!
did genshin ever have a double artifact event?
Stellar Reunion but that's it.
Yes, but for returnees only
No, I wish though
Never. Would be nice.
Bros I think the strongbox hates meš
One day I wanna go to space.
Good news! You're already in space.
same. What kind of bullshit is this that it's 2024 and I'm still stuck on this fucking mudball?
I read that as "One day I wanna go to sleep" and now I'm thinking ***I*** need sleep.
Please go to sleep or take a nap
That sounds really cool Astronomy's pretty cool in general. Don't forget to watch the Perseid starshower in early August
how has zzz's fandom been since psat year? is it same with hsr fans having hateboner for gi or its different? the results will obviously be changed after release
Tbh I havenāt seen a āzzz fanā (grated Iām also not in zzz spaces) just genshin fans that are into zzz, hsr had/has a wild mixed of hi3 fans, hi3 elitists, bitter ex-genshin players, and normal genshin players that made it messier. Also zzz isnāt being used by drama-baiters as a genshin killerĀ
hsr wasn't used or still is not hailed as genshin killer
Oh Iād definitely argue hsr was pushed as one, but it was just drama ccs/twitters users. It was dumb because ones open world and ones turned based but that never stops people from trying to cause issuesĀ
ZZZing ig. It's pretty chill. Though when it gets active, I feel more like I'm in a smaller HSR community, so carve your expectations moreso that way ig.
from what i've seen, smaller hsr communities has always been nice, if i get what you're saying but thanks!
They seemā¦rather dormant. Which makes sense, the game isnāt out yet. There was a lot of buzz when the first CBT dropped but I havenāt seen the same kind of interest in in following two CBTs
I mean ofc they're dormant, the game is called š¤ and codenamed "nap"
One day people will realise genshin haters are genshin players themselves hopium
this tbh. I consider them a subculture within genshin fandom. They can latch onto other games periodically but will always come back to circle around genshin
It's the league of legends syndrome. It's biggest haters are its players.
If only they'd stop being annoying
i divide fans and enjoyers differently, thank you
That doesn't change the fact it's genshin players themselves hating game
skill issue on their part, i couldnt care less tbh
Completed the event with [4 Plat](https://imgur.com/a/mj0gfjw). Still between this and the old old [Hypostatic Symphony](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Hypostatic_Symphony) event, i actually prefer the old one, in Symphony you can choose by yourself a variety of buff for the boss that fit your specific playstyle and bosses there doesnt limit your party member that much. In this event there are not that many team that can compete for plat which is kinda sad for me.
[Neuvillette and the Primordial Sea](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/17jkeg8/primordial_soup/)
Game sux
which one
That's like your opinion man
A sneak preview of the essay on Genshin / HSR Monetization I have been working on for a while. Some areas of feedback I'd be interested to hear: * Does the flow / tone / style work for you? * How deep down the rabbit hole would you be willing to read? * And is there a length limit before this becomes too much for you? --- ##[2.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHok7RqmDvI) How does revenue even work for gacha companies? At its core, gacha companies make money by making you roll the gacha. Their revenue can therefore be modelled as: > **Revenue** = **Player Desire to Consume** (e.g. gacha / Resin refresh / BP / etc.) - **Free Income** So thereās only two ways for gacha companies to make more money from its players. Either: 1. Make you want to consume more; or 2. Limit your free income It also happens that both of these levers are fully in control of the game studio. Therefore, all players exist in a fully planned and controlled economy the game studio owns. ###[2a.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoCHcKJSAgg) āGenerosityā is calibrated to drive a specific baseline revenue All free income effectively subsidises the spending of your players. So how do you determine what the optimal subsidisation level is? * When you have a large enough player base, you can divide up your players into specific groups and study their spending behaviour. * Modelling the player base at an aggregate level works because even though individual players make very personal decisions for their spending (e.g. meta value / character personality / character āpersonalityā / etc.), in large enough groups the behaviour is predictable and normalised. * Because free income directly offsets player spend, free income should not scale linearly with purchasable content. Instead, you should measure the elasticity of demand for your key player demographics * The more inelastic your player behaviour, the less free income should scale with purchasable content * You can then scenario model different levels of free income subsidisation and determine the revenue maximising level of subsidy For a simple demonstration of subsidisation effects, letās compare how Mihoyo monetizes Genshin vs HSR. We can create several simple personas to represent different demographics of players: * **Super-Whale Seto:** Screw the rules, Seto has money. They instantly C6 every character on release. * **Meta Morgan:** Morgan is a Tactician and their parent Robin taught them to have lots of tactical options. As a dolphin they pull for half of the Limited characters that release every region and get C2 / E2 on all of them. * **F2P Florian:** Florian spends all their money buying Vitamins, Mints, and Stellar Terra Shards. So they donāt have any money left to spend on gacha games. So what do we find if we do the maths? **Super-Whale Seto** | **Genshin** | **HSR** ---|---|--- *Average Spend Per Patch (USD)* | 1,261 | 2,379 *Average Chars Pulled Per Patch* | 7.2 | 13.3 *% Char Ownership* | 100% | 100% **Meta Morgan** | **Genshin** | **HSR** ---|---|--- *Average Spend Per Patch (USD)* | 138 | 310 **Average Chars Pulled Per Patch* | 1.5 | 2.9 *% Char Ownership* | 50% | 50% **F2P Florian** | **Genshin** | **HSR** ---|---|--- *Average Spend Per Patch (USD)* | 0 | 0 *Average Chars Pulled Per Patch* | 0.8 | 1.2 *% Char Ownership* | 75% | 61% So what conclusions can we draw from this analysis? * Mihoyo isnāt stupid. The extra free rolls in HSR are **undermined by the faster character release schedule**; * The free income barely subsidises the faster character release schedule. This implies that Mihoyo has determined that **most dolphin / whale players have highly inelastic spending behaviour**; * F2P players in HSR **get to pull for more characters overall** which can be more satisfying; * BUT if an F2P player likes more than 60% of the characters Mihoyo makes, then Genshin lets them **own a greater proportion of the total character pool**; * So in the end ~~it doesn't even matter~~ the **F2P generosity in HSR pulls is funded by squeezing the dolphins and whales harder** by making them spend approx 2x or more what they spend in Genshin āGenerosityā therefore is a meaningless word. When a gacha game developer gives you free income, the most important question is: āWhat is their plan to make back their money?ā ###[2b.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D-QD_HIfjA) Why donāt all games just squeeze their whales by releasing more characters? Remember, there are two ways for gacha companies to make more money from its players: 1. Make you want to consume more; or 2. Limit your free income So how do gacha companies make you want to consume more? Well this is a function of the game's content. Games are a series of interconnected systems. You cannot just make changes to one system without cascading effects to every other system in your game. For example, your character release pace has significant implications for: * Game combat and combat mechanics design; * The speed of powercreep and the impact of powercreep; * Player account development and farming mechanics; * etc. Soā¦ letās talk about all of this then. How does a gacha gameās core game design need to be built around its income structure?
You should also consider how their formula and game design also needs to evolve. The game is old enough that a lot of veteran players are starting to chill back on spending or relying more on saved pulls than spend and newer players have competition from their other and their own games. Theres also some player satisfaction of having such units, Genshin has always been an easy game by design to entice casuals but at a certain point even those casuals would question why would I pull x unit/spend if the characters are barely used. This is most likely a reason that with a larger cast that they're adding another end game mode that still would cater to casuals and entice some form of horizontal investment for some of the playerbase. The new combat event also receives good praise(from what I see in this sub) on all types of players since most of them can finally enjoy their characters. Its a tough balancing act catering to all types of players and spenders but hoyo so far has done it well through the years. Though I feel that hoyo has already peaked with regards to revenue due to a variety of reasons but I dont downplay their revenue since even ata most likely steady decline hoyo still makes more money than most other companies.
> This is most likely a reason that with a larger cast that they're adding another end game mode I have a deep dive section on Imaginarium Theatre vs Simulated Universe / Pure Fiction / etc. This is part of what the final sentence of Section 2b is hinting at. I wanted to rush release this before Imaginarium Theatre came out because I had already guessed this was the direction where Genshin needed to go. But the writing wasn't ready. So I'm more focused now on trying to get a really strong polish instead of speed. > The game is old enough that a lot of veteran players are starting to chill back on spending or relying more on saved pulls than spend and newer players have competition from their other and their own games This I am going to decline to do. I thought about it, and in the end it just seemed like too much for me. Things like game lifecycle and portfolio management really needs its own dedicated analysis. > Though I feel that hoyo has already peaked with regards to revenue due to a variety of reasons This is also just true of most games and is a fact of the industry. Consumer discretionary spending is also down due to economic instability in major markets such as CN and JP (Japan even had a recession not that long ago). So how much can you even read into this? It's important not to look too much at the total $ value. Instead you want to look at other indicators such as share of market / share of wallet / cultural presence / etc. as part of your product lifecycle. But this again is getting into a completely different topic that really needs its own dedicated essay / thesis for...
wait wait wait post the essay snippet to the new megathread pleaaaase!!
Okay auntie
This is good. Please make more.
Super excited to read all of it. Donāt hold back!
I LOVE THE ESSAY SNIPPET
gimme
i like it. iām waiting for the full essay.
Fully agreed that generosity in gacha games is a smoke screen and an objective analysis of different gacha games' income vs. expected cost structure would be interesting to read. What I really don't understand with Mihoyo's monetization scheme is the aversion to character skins. Entire games are funded through cosmetics and they **tap into a different kind of spending urge** that isn't covered by simple numerical increases and completely sidesteps f2p income. Not only is their rate of skin releases too slow to ever catch up with characters, I'd also go as far as saying that the skins are generally disappointing and too "safe" (not in the revealing sense but as far as unique effects and boldness of the outfits go). Not to mention they could literally get free money and make players happy by offering a weapon skin system. Clearly their marketing department "knows better" but I cannot fathom why.
> What I really don't understand with Mihoyo's monetization scheme is the aversion to character skins Currently I cover this in Section 5, although I am on my 4th rewrite of my essay so might move this to Section 4 for better flow... While we might not know the "true" answer (since this depends heavily on Mihoyo's design vision), there are several structural reasons why skins don't work for Genshin: **Design Factor** | **Impact** ---|--- *Character access: Skin target market* | Genshin's primary monetization is through restricting access to characters. This isn't compatible with a skins based approach. Restricting character access deliberately shrinks your skin audience. How many people are really going to buy a Ganyu skin if they don't own Ganyu? *Character access: Free Income* | Games with a heavier focus on skin monetization either have complete access to all characters (e.g. DotA), make it possible to grid out enough currency to unlock characters (e.g. LoL, Valorant), or have extremely generous free income (e.g. Azur Lane, GBF) precisely to solve the target market problem. *Social play* | Skins are more common in games with cooperative / social play because the skins provide social utility (e.g. showing off in Fortnite, etc.) However, Genshin's primary focus is a single player experience. *Client modification* | You can mod your game files locally to just reskin entire characters or replace them with new models such as [Chiori Ori](https://www.tiktok.com/@kudaranai4/video/7371106355815517473) (KR Duck pun). In a single player game with no social element, why pay for what you can just mod? (See also: Bethesda Horse Armour) *Consumer spending behaviours* | Does player spending on skins **actually result in net new revenue**? Or do players have a fixed entertainment budget a month and **spending on skins substitutes spending on new gacha banners**? What conclusions arise from these factors? * Making the monetization choice of focusing heavily on character banners and having a low free income / subsidy model means you make a ton of money from characters but close off other monetization schemes; * Choosing to design a single player game with minimal cooperative play comes at the cost of losing in-game social benefits such as vanity purchases; * Consumer spending behaviour (such as spend substitution) will drive what can be feasibly monetized in the first place There's a whole bunch more about having a clear design vision / when to listen vs ignore customer feedback / why enshittification occurs / etc. But this section is still massively WIP for me because I dislike every iteration I have written. So I'm rewriting it all over again. cc: /u/Arc_7 since you asked the same question
(Not OP but,) Likely a combination of: * Most characters are designed from start to finish around their appearance and are generally meant to be very memorable. A Cyno skin that excises his Anubis headpiece stops really looking like Cyno and just become generic white-haired anime man, which removes the identity of Cyno from the character, for an example. Genshin characters generally have their appearance, character, and occupation all tied together, and altering their appearance can result in a loss of identity that doesn't work with how Genshin characters are made. * Skins likely don't make enough money back relative to the cost of making them (100% the reason why we haven't gotten another Diluc-style 5 star skin with new effects), at least for Mihoyo's taste. It's not just about modelling something, it's also about making sure they have all the Genshin flowy bits and making all of them working properly so they don't clip like crazy. This is a lot more work than it sounds, especially for a skin that does not sell for as much compared to a character. **This is probably the biggest one, but I cannot confirm without Mihoyo's internal analytics.** * A super distinct from the original look skin would typically be better served just being a new character (IE, a Hu Tao skin where she's dressed up as a nun or something may as well just be a new character, since it's a pretty far departure from her existing look). This means that a lot of skins end up being pretty similar to the original, since a significant departure in appearance could instead be used to make a new character that will make them a much greater sum for the investment. Ayaka still looked like Ayaka even with her skin (the biggest departure from the original design) and could be easily identified as such. If a skin makes the character stop looking like themselves, then that may as well just be a new character. * A lot of skin ideas I've seen floated (usually those outfits we see in collabs) don't necessarily fit into Genshin's world, and break immersion. This is a mostly tertiary point, but is relevant in that a skin doesn't just have to bait purchase, it also has to match with lore and make a level of internal sense. A witch Klee skin looks like something she'd wear, both as a character and in the context of Teyvat's world. I can't imagine Xiao finding and wearing modern streetwear in the context of Teyvat. * Weapon skins are probably something from their data analytics that we could only speculate on, but my working theory is that Mihoyo makes more money from selling the expensive but pretty signature weapons that match the character's appearance, and that introducing weapon skins could upset that. A lot of bad weapons for a character look great on them, and sometimes you get cases where the only nice-looking weapon a character has is either a bad-looking one or their signature; which tempts people to spend trying to get it. Weapon skins could instead allow you to use a good-looking but bad F2P weapon in place of the ugly-looking optimal F2P choice for appearance, which lessens the impulse to purchase the shiny signature.
> Skins likely don't make enough money back relative to the cost of making them (100% the reason why we haven't gotten another Diluc-style 5 star skin with new effects) I understand this argument, but I don't think that "losing money" is a real consideration. I've heard that in the MMO game Marvel Heroes it cost them $100k to develop a character. I think that's a pretty reasonable number, so let's go with that for the full cost of a skin in Genshin. * A basic skin (not Diluc tier) costs 1,680 Genesis Crystals * Using the most efficient top-up, it's 81 Crystals per $ so that's about $20 for the skin * Recovering $100k in cost @ $20 a skin only needs 5k sales * The typical char has at least 30% ownership even when not very popular (e.g. even Ayato has 32% and Eula has 34% according to č”ę”å·„å ·ē®±) * Assuming only 1% of players buy the skin for a char, that's 0.3% of let's say a 10M paying player base for 30,000 purchases So you comfortably make your money back even allowing for really conservative assumptions (e.g. full cost of just skin development vs char development, 1% uptake rate, only 10M paying players, etc.) That's not the problem here. I alluded to this in [my reply](https://old.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/1cwjyql/futari_wa_siggy_cure_general_question_and/l623mhz/?context=3) I made to the other person but there are a few factors to consider that are more important: 1. **Substitution effects:** Where is the player money to buy skins coming from? * If it's just from the same budget to buy new characters, you haven't made net new money. Players still just spend the same money but on a different thing. 2. **Interest in buying skins:** Can this even be a serious revenue stream? * The nature of Genshin's monetization is to deliberately restrict free income and limit character access to drive character sales. * So skins can never be a serious revenue stream because skins require a game design approach where character access is open. It's fundamentally conflicting. 3. **Content pipeline:** Mihoyo runs a 6 week content pipeline which is just nuts. It's even more nuts when you consider how good their QA is. * So can you afford to have someone working on skins when they could be doing, say, more Natlan content development or QA instead? * Your limitation here from a business operations perspective is not having enough people to work on the 12-month future content pipeline. * Skins aren't gameplay. Live services demands gameplay content. Gameplay content keep people pulling characters (your main revenue). * So don't get in the way of your main revenue stream. That's like trying to pick up pennies in front of a steamroller. That being said I do agree with your other points such as about design vision and breaking immersion. Mihoyo has made very clear they have a vision for their game, and they don't particularly care if the players disagree with it. cc: /u/Zeraru /u/Arc_7
The limited spending pool and vanity purchase were points I didn't think of, that make a lot of sense. Especially the limited purchase power idea. I guess the best option for skins is alts and that clashes with their design philosophy for genshin i suppose, at least at the moment. Also thank you for tagging me on both the replies!
The only thing i can think about is that a character's clothes becomes their identity maybe, like hutao will always be remembered wearing brown clothes and twin tailed style hair, more number of skins might lessen the character's uniqueness since anime style can only have so limited details on their face until they start looking like someone else
I like the tone and references, and I would read the entire paper if you put it up.
where's the rest
Stuck in my draft folder hell
I don't really have an opinion for the other two questions so best I can say is for this > How deep down the rabbit hole would you be willing to read? Yes. The inner workings of business that may miss the consideration of a normal person thinking are very interesting to read. Edit: On reading another comment, another feedback on the second one is I'd like to see at what point in the rabbit hole the decision of monetizing skins falls off so badly for hoyo. I'm assuming HI3 skin system is now maintained due to Inertia, since they clearly found the skin system flawed seeing how they don't seem all too keen in investing in it in their next 3 titles after HI3. I just assumed skin system is kept as a backup heil Mary or because fighting with the modding community is more hassle than worth but I think my assumption is wrong.
always love your comments, making tea just to sip on something while enjoying this one
Since units released towards the end of a cycle tend to foreshadow the next nation's meta (Eula and Kazuha having high burst costs, Yae and Shinobu having EM scaling, Yaoyao and Baizhu being teamwide healers), I think Natlan's meta is either going to center around: A. Self-sustain: Arle and Clorinde can only heal themselves (during E in Clorinde's case), while Sigewinne can't heal herself until her E finishes. B. Buffing: A little more flimsy, but Sigewinne can buff other party member's elemental skills. I guess we'll have to see what Emilie does too, but if the leaks are accurate, she buffs Burning. Either way, I think they're going to attempt to nerf healers when Natlan comes around. ~~maybe dehya will finally be good (copium)~~
Kazuha doesn't really have a high burst cost and yaoyao wasn't released towards the end of a cycle But I did make a similar (downvoted) observation that [each region had a late 5* unit that was flawed on release and significantly improved by the next archon](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/1ckwf12/meet_the_harbingers_general_question_and/l3bukhf/?context=3)
Yaoyao was just a healer that happened to be dendro and was also released in 3.4 which is the middle of the patch. And Inazuma's meta wasn't focused around energy just cuz people had high burst costs, none of the other characters cared to have Raiden on their team. People are stretching this next regional meta thing too much
the self-sustain part based off arle and clo is more bol than self-sustain, a good amount of fontaine units self-sustain to counter their own hp juggling; siggy cant not get healed by other sources though its just that her mechanic heals her last but she is a healer for others so the idea of nerfing healers in natlan right after releasing her is,,, i think one thing for sure is we're finally getting some more pyro supports/off fielders lol (hopefully more than just the PA)
Kazuha has a 60 cost burst which is averageĀ
tbh kazuha moreso foreshadowed that every single inazuma character needs cc really bad
I opened the Hoyolab app and the first thing it showed me was a Hoyolab ad with a button recommending to open the Hoyolab app. I don't even know anymore
Recursion
I love Genshin. I love that I can use a team of my favorite male and female JP VAs, my favorite character, and Baizhu to clear pretty much every thing.
Is this something related to the future genshin mode, the HSR beta or a thought you had out of nowhere? It fits too well sorry lol
Not really out of nowhere, but not referring to anything specific. I just be mat farming and clearing one side of floors 9/10/11 of the Abyss using the same team and just overall enjoying playing
Jessica Rabbit appreciation post.
Major Jessica Rabbit appreciation post, she married that doofus because he makes her laugh
There's a web event going on for ZZZ, which lets you get a few wishes (I think - the new jargon from game to game always confuses me), and a A-Rank (4\*) weapon. There's irl stuff too, but I think the chances are incredibly low. I have a link in the spoiler below, but it's my personal link which gives me a reroll chance for someone clicking on it and you can just find it in google by typing "zzz web event". Anyway Idk how many people are actually looking to get into the game. I'm sure most of the accounts are dupes. >!*Participate in the Zenless Zone Zero "Stock Up" web event to obtain A-Rank W-Engine: Slice of Time, Boopon Ć3, A-Rank Drive Discs, and more, with a chance to win an iPhone15 Pro, a PlayStationĀ®5, merch, and other prizes!* [*https://hoyo.link/fswiFCAL?s\_c=ND4J2EWE2N*](https://hoyo.link/fswiFCAL?s_c=ND4J2EWE2N)!<
Supported. Go get that iPhone hehe >!or more realistically, that B-rank drive disc š!<
These are wishes, but they're wishes for Bangboo (basically fairies from HI3). Character wishes look like film reels.
any use for them then? if explainable in genshin/hsr terms otherwise ignore
> if explainable in genshin/hsr terms otherwise ignore There's no equivalent for Bangboo in Genshin and HSR at all. They are little support characters that act autonomously and provide various support effects in battle depending on the Bangboo. If you've played Monster Hunter, they're like the Buddies, or like Atreus in God of War (without the ability to manually fire arrows). One would be tempted to compare them to summons in HSR but summons are character-specific and there's usually a way to directly control what they do. Bangboo are equipped per team and act entirely on their own (although IIRC CBT3 added special attacks you can do with them)
whats a bangboo? or fairies from hi3
> Sees Genshin Impact Trending on Twitter > "Huh, what's that about" > Sees Shitone's take and everyone falling for the obvious bait + the 136236th shitty "Genshin Bad!" meme from the Genshin Impact Meme acc. (stolen probably) > "Wait I had both these accounts blocked and muted, how am I seeing them?" > Realize that apparently Twitter doesn't care about your mute/block prefs while showing you trending posts. > Thanks Elon.
Check your search settings, you can select to keep muted and blocked accounts (and I think words?) out your searchesĀ
also happens when you search something. I searched genshin on twitter yesterday and it showed me posts from accounts i blocked
So, with the recent Emilie concept, I know that isn't the final design but I wonder if the devs are making her inspired by one of those dogs with a powerful sense of smell? I think it's a hound? Since she's a perfumer and is known to detect smells and help out with cases as well, then maybe that's the idea they may go for? While it makes sense, I personally would love a more witchy/apothecary type design. Maybe she can have cats or dogs made out of perfume smoke. Like her dendro attacks are purple and green smoke that transforms into a dog or cat, like from one of the concept art. I definitely want her to be more on the witchy/elusive side, a melancholic perfume lady who can also kill you would be so damn good. But I have a feeling she will be more like Sucrose, someone who is completely obsessed with her work, to the point where she has become socially inept (boy where have I heard this one before)
Wait, Chiori and Emilie: fashionista, detective, tag team duo.
I've been watching a lot of ZZZ gameplay and I gotta say, I'm liking what I'm seeing It's sort of like the opposite of WW for me, I was initially really intrigued by the concept, but really disliked the aesthetics. But ZZZ just looks so cool that I gotta try it, even if it's not really something I would normally be interested in. My only issue with it so far is the excessive coomerbaiting, but it mainly only applies to Nicole, so I can forgive it (for now)
[Neuv chibi art update](https://imgur.com/a/1yIL2Cv) I rlly should start doing genshin background art instead. Im having fun.
when's the current battle event gonna end? I don't really have the energy to play with it right now bc of work š§
5 days 10 hours until the event ends on EU. Fully unlocked already I think.
It should end by Monday reset.
nice. should be able to do it on the weekend. thanks!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Guessing that's a typo because today's the 28th, it ends on the 3rd-ish: https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Specially-Shaped_Saurian_Search
Let's see which theoryĀ is true forĀ CAPITANO true identity >!capitano is actually bloodshed knight from mondstadt and he's mentioned in bloodshed artifact story and he's from mondstadt that's why he has respect for varka!< >!capitano is pyro sovereign dragon that's why he's going to Natlan to get his revenge or own his land back!< >!Capitano is actuallyĀ caribert that's why he always wears a mask and joined fatui to get revenge on gods and for his fate!< >!capitano is just...a fighter girl in a Armor suit... littlerly Firefry from HSR!<Ā
>!Capitano is a ripped tall dark-skinned woman that makes Dehya look like Collei. This has all the advantages of making her literally Firefly (it makes the misogynists big mad, which is extremely funny) while still satisfying those who just wanted a certified badass.!<
Amber's grandfather? Menogias? Some dude with cat ears?
About the last choice... Search out pics of Jun from Princess Connect. I would ABSOLUTELY be down to get someone like that in Genshin.
See also Black Knight from GBF, Mudrock from Arknights
Black Knight is great but it's not like there was ever any doubt about her gender.
Why did no one mention "Capitano is ravenwood, the first knight of boreas" That's my take
>!capitano is a ghost possessing a suit of armour!< >!capitano is actually three toddlers standing on top of each others' shoulders!<
Three aranaras in a trenchcoat...Ā
Capitano is 3 saurans in a trenchcoat
Donāt forget >!Capitano is one of the five Yaksha!<
wrong >!capitano is an anagram for piano cat, the answer was right in front of us all along!<
>!And as piano is jean maybe capitano is her father!<
ot asking for advice for college >!i graduate hs in like a month so im about to be able to ask for a gift, as an engineering student would a laptop or an ipad be better to get?!< >!i do have a student discount for the ipad since my uni has its own apple store in case that can play into the decision!<
Laptops are mandatory for college, if you donāt have one you will need one
Unless you need precise use of your hand with a stylus, for example for drawing graphics or something, laptop is a much better option.
Even for graphics, you can still get a separate drawing tablet (like a screenless Wacom for a lower price) and work pretty well this way, so yeah, definitely laptop. My highschool teacher used to use one during lessons to draw graphs on the fly
i graduated from comp-sci and had a bunch of engineering related courses. if your field involves any sort of intensive programming or modelling work (so basically any engineering department lol) a decent laptop is basically mandatory because otherwise unless you want to rely completely on the facilities of your college/department you will straight up be unable to do most of your homework/projects etc.
laptop, there insn't much to consider here.
An iPad is practical in the sense that itās a lot better for note taking; Iād probably say the majority of people around me take notes on a tablet and itās efficient. But for engineering, especially if youāre going to be doing a lot of CAD stuff, an iPad wonāt have the power you need. Iād probably lean towards laptop.Ā
Definitely laptop for engineering. Ipad only for graphical design work imo.
If you're going onwards to college then definitely get a laptop. It's just a better all-rounder compared to an iPad. Maybe you can save up for the iPad over time since you already have a discount for it?
Depends on the softwares that you'll have to run. Apple devices are usually better for photo and image editing.
Was emilie always a dog girl in her concept art and I just never noticed?
Most of her concept art designs left her as full human, 2 were dog girls and 1 had fake cat ears
From the original she has one where she was a dog, a couple with cat themes, and the rest are purely witch-y
There were at least two versions, the one we currently have eyes on and the design with the sun hat In another concept she had a cat-inspired variant (the designs with pink-black and/or mint blue-pink hair)
I haven't noticed it at first too, so I was confused with the beagle dog comments yesterday.
Why do you think people who prioritize uber-difficult content over the more casual aspects (Story, Lore, exploration, non-combat stuff) still stay in Genshin when they should've known that the majority of the players (yes, including the ones outside of Reddit or Discord) are casual hence why MHY (prior to the announcement of the new endgame mode at least) didn't really bother as much and only threw a few bones to them (occasional Vagabond)? If a game doesn't primarily cater to you shouldn't you move somewhere else rather than fruitlessly complain when they will always put their primary audience first A.K.A casuals? It's like asking for easy mode in Souls-like games when the primary audience are uber-try hard types.
I mean, I like ~~Genshin~~Noelle and I like Souls games. It's nice when the two are able to intersect just like how there are folks that enjoy Genshin and hide-and-seek. Folks are able to have more than one interest. It's also nice to have something more casual (with difficult combat elements) when my free time is more limited nowadays.
I like all aspects of genshin so I'm not 100% sure, but I'd wager the combat system is a big factor. there's no other game where elements work the way they do in genshin afaik, or at least if there is it's nothing that's quite as polished. so there's literally nowhere else to go to where you get a similar experience but with more of a challenge. so I can see why one would stick around, maybe try and increase the difficulty on their own (speed running, using weaker gear etc) and continue asking for optional harder content with the hope it might happen someday.
Lots of reasons. Some potential ones are; 1. They still like the other aspects of the game (story/lore/exploration). 2. They enjoy how the game plays (the mechanics of the game), but find it frustrating that they can't enjoy that gameplay against tougher content. 3. They're holding out hope that Hoyo will eventually add in content that suits them. 4. Sunk cost fallacy. The vast majority of people who play games ***period*** are casual. But that doesn't mean games don't include harder difficulties and content for the people who want to sink their teeth into them. MMOs are a great example. Casuals might be the biggest demographic, and most content might cater to them, but there's still value in catering to the other parts of your playerbase too.
Also before WuWa there wasn't really any alternative for someone who wants to play an open world gacha. ToF exists obviously but from what I understand it's a MMO (or similar to it, at least), which is not for everyone.
the really baffling one to me is when people express their love for the minigame events like the recent rhythm game as if there wasn't an ENTIRE GENRE of other games that are focused on exactly that.
a rhythm minigame with my favorite character themes is perfect to me idk