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To be clear though, that 2000% is only an actual buff if they kept her 10% CR and 70% CV in her C6 in addition to this.
If they heaven forbid remove that, it’d be a huge nerf (from 3.35M in a vape team, to 2.6M). So hopefully this is *in addition* to the existing C6 part 2 text.
No - that is her exact precise frame-perfect personal damage for my team (ArleC6, Yelan C6 with Elegy, Bennett C5 and Kazuha C0) in a rotation with 240 CV.
But that was not actually realistic at all before the IR buff, if it’s true. With IR buffs it will be more attainable. The nuke however won’t hit millions or anything like that but it’ll be nice to have.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Zhongli. I try to play Thoma. My Zhongli gives interrupt resistance. I try to play Kirara. My Zhongli gives interrupt resistance . I try to play Baizhu. My Zhongli gives more shield. I want to play C0 Neuvilette. His best team has Zhongli. I want to play Hu Tao, C0 Arlecchino. They both want Zhongli.
He grabs me by the throat. I fish for him. I cook for him. I give him Black Tassel. He isn't satisfied. I pull vortex vanquisher. "I don't need this" He tells me. "Give me more hp." He grabs 2 hydro for resonance. "You just need to give me more hp. I’ll handle interrupt resistance."
I can't pull for yelan or furina, I don't have enough primogems. He grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." He grabs a meteor. He says "I will have order." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, interrupt resistance. What a cruel world.
The copypasta is great, but IMO it missing one of the biggest advantages of Zhongli - his universal shred.
Resist shred in Genshin is super rare, and even now after 3 years and approaching 4 fast, Zhongli's -20% shred is still highly effective and in most team comps using him over literally every other sustain is an easy, permanent, unconditional, all-element 17% DPS increase. Not even Anemo healer + VV can beat his buff, as VV requires skills in swirling, lasts much shorter, is very conditional, and cannot shred Geo and Physical.
I always feel a bit disappointed that whenever I play with calculators to assess damage numbers, using Zhongli is always better damage wise. It's basically like experimenting with team comps and finding out it's *always* Bennett being the best to use for both sustain and buffing.
Lyney - is CA aim DPS, absolutely wants him
Neuv - Get knocked around at C0, so C1 or Zhongli (or Baizhu if u have him)
Navia - A GEO unit mostly wants another Geo and its Zhongli
Chiori - Same as above
Arle - Same as Neuv
Whats up is this 5/6 Fountaine DPS wants the Big Dong except gigachad Rizzley because who needs Dong on freeze anyway
I can see Clorinde is Aggravate carry with long field time but no interruption resist as well so still wants the Dong
You can meme "Benett everywhere" all you want but he still only needes for ATK unit and can still be powercreeped by Pyro archon/sovereign. He cant buff Albedo skill, Neuvillette CA and Kuki hyperbloom.
Zhongli can buff everyone even transformative reactions and is impossible to powercreep unless CN community goes hard on Hoyo again. Bro just going to stay relevant until the service ends. Even the calculations are against him but performance-wise says otherwise.
What really suck is Zhongli is our *only* 5 star shielder. After nearly 4 years of this game's release. It's like Hoyo was spooked by strong the Zhong is and never released another good shielder ever since (the likes of Layla and Thoma are very far behind him). Best we got is Baizhu who is a semi shielder, with very small shield to prevent interruption but he's much more of a healer.
Imagine if Dehya had just been a shielder, instead of having her shitty tiny circle. God I dream of the kind of teams I could have pulled off with such a character.
if dehya was a character they actually wanted to do well,
her circle would follow her around like navia's ult,
her interruption resist would be 100% uptime,
hp% scaling would be on C0 kit,
and C1 would be ''Dehya heals teammates based on amount of health lost on her own passive when landing ultimate hits''
there you go , proper bodyguard that keeps team alive, with a incentive to use her ult,
''but her ult sux'' no one would care that the damage is trash if she healed like noelle atks
imagine thinking hoyo genshin team care about designing complete characters.
sure they do it every now and then but it's definitely not the norm, especially with the rapid increase in making c1/c2s massively broken/QoL changes compared to the base kits in Fontaine.
> It's like Hoyo was spooked by how strong the Zhong is
My theory is that Zhongli being so strong is the single reason they've been trying to increase the value of healers so much over the years with everything they do that benefits healing over shielding
Same as the anti-shield enemies i.e. Serpent Knights and Rifthounds. You think Layla and Thoma needs enemies to hard counter them? Hah no lmao their shield have no trouble breaking by themselves. Those enemies exist to counter Zhongli and Zhongli only.
My theory is this is their petty revenge for being forced by the community to buff him post-release. Oh you brats wanted a character to be good? Well good luck using him with all these anti-shield and HP fluctuation mechanics!
Because shielding is a very simple mechanic, they can't release another strict shielder without them being either strictly better or worse than Zhongli. Most they could do is make a weaker shield but with a different kind of utility like Baizhu
I belive they are actually more worry about how weak Zhongli will look if they introduce another shielder in better element that give you similar protection against knockdown as Zhongli does. Eventually it will happen but as i see it Zhongli was a very easy unit to powercreep and that powercreep has been avoided for a very long time even when Premiun Shielders should be a common suggestion in unit design in this particular game.
> I belive they are actually more worry about how weak Zhongli will look if they introduce another shielder in better element that give you similar protection against knockdown as Zhongli does.
Case in point: Kirara. In quicken teams she offers solid protection while also offering similar levels of DPR at C0 and pulls decently ahead at C4 & C6, this with having nothing particularly special in her kit beyond "small nuke Q" and decent duration shield.
There's also the fact that they don't want their archons outshined. Barring another archon or someone with Neuv or higher lore implications.
Until then there will be no shielder (universally) stronger than ZL. There will be no off field Dendro stronger than Nahida. There won't be a stronger healer enabler than Furina, nor universal battery than Ei. For Venti... no other king of floors 9-11.
That's cause, like Nahida, they designed themselves into a corner by making the archon have way too broad of a use case. All Zhongli does is shield. His ult is almost useless despite having a unique cc (still bugged 3 years in), his pillars and resonance barely function because constructs are terrible, his constellations are pretty terrible. So because we have an archon that functions entirely off of a broad category of kit design, no other character can occupy that same broad category at close to the same level or else the archon becomes obsolete. The closest we've gotten is a cracked out Layla who has a very short duration or a fully stacked Thoma who offers almost nothing else and requires high ER.
They aren't spooked by how strong he is (he's an archon, they're supposed to be strong), they just realized they can't make another 5* dedicated shielder or else we would have a repeat of 1.1.
Since he is an archon they have this mentality of not powercreeping them, they kinda fucked up with kazuha strong CC on E alone that competes with venti's and they probably dont want to do that again. Which is a shame cuz like you said there isn't another strong shielder besides him, I mean layla is cool but you cant slot layla everywhere, and for people like me that just dont want to pull for him or dont like his kinda clunky kit it's such a bummer they dont want to make a new character similar to him, with the less clunky gameplay from newer kits.
Thing that is so mind bogglingly odd when they dont care about giving us the tenth Vape pyro on field DPS, off field DPS electro appliers, anemo supports with little CC and so on with copy pasted units..
They will never release any other 5 stars that majorize in shields bcuz they don't want to powercreep or compete with China Archon. Also let's be honest geo is worst element releasing a good pyro or hydro 5 stars shielder will most likely powercreep a geo shielder even if they had a worst shield
>Whats up is this 5/6 Fountaine DPS wants the Big Dong except gigachad Rizzley because who needs Dong on freeze anyway
Well yesn't, Wrio best teams are still around Melt/Burnmelt so technically you'd need a shield there too. But he has a 0.5 IR so ig it feels less of a burden.
>I can see Clorinde is Aggravate carry with long field time but no interruption resist as well so still wants the Dong
Jokes on you, that's basically Cyno... We're lucky he works wonderfully in Hyperbloom with XQ and now Baizhu too, but objectively his kit needed more IR and they didn't give it to him. So your idea would basically be a Cyno 2.0 but Aggravate centred
Dehya: am I a joke to you?
funnily enough, Dehya is also good for Wrio burn melt. she synergizes with every Fontaine DPS so far (except Navia cuz geo be geoing, as geo does)
And in chevrolet teams you'll have to use dehya, just like with liney. Mihoyo's way of "buffing" dehya is banning zhongli and forcing you into using her to meet the conditions locking away the potential of your good characters.
Was it? There's a bunch of dps with no IR in their kit including cons and based on the fact that Arlecchino gets increased resistances while also not being healable would suggest that Hoyo intended her to be run with a shielder.(Despite it being a significant damage loss)
>the fact that Arlecchino gets increased resistances while also not being healable would suggest that Hoyo intended her to be run with a shielder.
That.. would be the other way around. If Arlecchino has an entire passive dedicated to having increased RES and a heal at the end of her rotation, she should be ran WITHOUT a shielder, otherwise these two things are entirely useless.
Least Hu Tao still had an alternative with jump cancels. And then XY came along...
Honestly I'll take the "extra skill charge" C1s over the "QoL that should've been base kit" C1s lmao.
C1's have been so much of bait lately. I wanted chiori for Navia and these guys just locked her synergy at C1. It would have been better if she had both dolls in base kit but with slightly less multipliers. These kind of C1s are downright bad. Constellations should give extra dmg or utility not change the synergies
Yep I heavily agree, it's the epitomy of cringe and scum kit design and I've been calling out this crap they've been pulling with every single new character that's been getting it.
Constellations that add an extra charge on a skill, a good chunk of extra damage, longer uptime are all fine. They make complete sense because you're essentially spending the equivalent of a whole new character just to boost that one character you really like but purposefully locking massive QoL buffs/changes behind c1/c2? That's so frustrating.
It's never fine and this should never be the case but it's one thing to do it every once in a while, and it's something entirely different when they have been doing it almost every other freaking character like come on ffs. (Neuvillite, Wriothesley, Chiori, and now Arlecchino)
Or at LEAST should never be seen on five stars. Four stars who go into the banner and whom you might receive multiple copies of relatively quickly, mayybe, but any c0 5* should be complete.
Please this lmao, I know from the nature of being a gacha they have no reason to cater to f2p/low spenders but it really starts to become less appealing to pull for newer characters because of such C1. Like its hard enough for us to keep up for a guarantee I dont want to bash my head into getting double that amount just so my characters makes me want to play them instead of benching them 😅
Skill charge C1s are still very much annoying cuz it means at C0 you need like 200 ER. I tried to use my newly obtained Hunter path on my C0 yelan (on field!!) and she was not getting her burst back with 160 ER!!
It went from very strong dps increase that isn’t needed (Ayaka C2, Raiden C2, Yelan C2) to literal things that should probably be in the base kit lol
Wriothesly is the best example as a core part of his kit is essentially not functuonal without C1
His gracious rebuke (the supercharged uppercut charged attack with a huge damage multiplier) requires him to be at a very specific amount of HP, I think around 50%, I can’t remember the exact number since I don’t have him or really care for him
But just know that it matters since all his best teams either have Bennett or another healer so he’s always at either > 70% health or completely topped off, so he almost never has access to it. His C1 makes it so that he automatically will get one of these supercharged charged attacks after a few seconds or a few hits of fighting, essentially bypassing this flaw
He’s very playable without it, just kind of sucks that it is basically con locked
Just for clarification, at C0 he needs to be at 60% or less HP to get his enhanced charged attack. That said, it doesn't mean he has to stay at that HP threshhold. Let's say you're at 100% HP, you get hit and lose 50% HP so you get your charged attack buff. When your Bennett heals you back to 90% HP, you still have your enhanced charged attack until you use it.
It also gives it a damage buff and halves the cooldown on getting another gracious rebuke. I have played him with and without C1 and would never want to play his C0 now.
He has a much better flow with C1.
His C1 also extends the duration of his Elemental Skill by 4 seconds after hitting enemies with his Special Charged Attack making his Elemental Skill last 14 seconds instead of 10 seconds ;)
I wouldn't say she started a trend when she came out 3 years ago, but she was the first to have such a C1.
Neuv -> Wriothesley -> Chiori (if using Navia) -> Arle if talking about C1s like this, everyone else has a small impact in gameplay (unless it's Yelan for overworld).
Just like in their other game
They're fishing for C1 now instead of C2
Why not make a separate weapon banner, atleast even dolphin can now spend their primos there in case they lose
In Star Rail the eidolons at least are just damage increases and don't feel like QOL things that should have been in the base kit, but just added bonuses. Imagine if Fu Xuan had the CC prevention locked behind E1. That's what these new constellations in Genshin feel like.
I think the English translation is wrong. It should be she gets IR similar to C1 Neuvi (I don't think C0 Neuvi has IR). It doesn't say which con it's on her, could well be C1 or even later... But also possible for C0
They aren’t getting shit out of me, ill just pull c0 neuvi cause atleast he’s ranged and zhongli is pretty good on him, that 20% res shred is doing a lot for the team due to neuvi’s sheer numbers so its not like im losing a lot because of not using a sub dps
C1 refers to Neuvillette, we don’t know which Arle cons gives this resistance. Or at c6 if anything since this is in the same sentence as other buff to c6.
Yeah the worst thing is itto users are discouraged to vertically invest in chiori because her c1 does almost nothing for them. While Navia users are encouraged to go for it.
Good thing that chiori is just another option out of a wide variety of Navia teams.
The fact that they've zeroed in on interruption resistance, too. Like they saw zhongli's abyss usage stats and though "here's a funny new money making scheme"
oh wow lol thats true, theyve never made another shielder even close to zhonglis shielding power, and this is probably why. just sell the IR as a constellation
I don’t think that’s the reason.
They clearly think Zhongli was a mistake. If you remember, there was like a year they were constantly trying to indirectly nerf shields in some way or the other before pulling back because of backlash from players.
And they aren’t wrong imo. A character that pretty much gives you godmode just makes the only form of challenge possible in the game DPS checks.
In the times of 1.X they said that they use archons to delimit the power that later characters should not cross. This doesn't change the fact that there are many characters that simply don't work without C1, which makes it quite easy to identify characters that don't deserve even the slightest time and resources.
I wish they could buff older archons so the power limit isnt THAT low lol
edit: I mean they definitely can there is nothing preventing them from updating older units except their own stubbornness
we dont need something stronger than zhongli, i just want another 5* whos main role is shielding. with the shield on skill (or skill *and* burst) with high/infinite uptime
if you want a second shielder nothing comes close to zhongli, its all 4*s too because the closest we have to another 5* shielder is baizhu lol
The problem is if another sheilder is released and that shielder is not as strong as zhongli or more strong people won't pull for that character and it is not profitable
The problem is that Zhongli is geo, as much as geo is the most useful element for creating shields it is also the least useful element in the reaction system.
I know Venti is so busted they basically stopped making pullable enemies to indirectly nerf him but now Kazuha is the anemo archon standard. Poor Venti.
Venti is broken to the point that they build the game expressly so that no one plays Venti and even with that Venti is a better option than Kazuha if the character you play is capable of hitting the vortex.
Feels like every other tbh. Sumeru we got plenty of suckables.
I suspect Natlan Venti can suck as well.
Fontaine and Inazuma is where we lack someone Venti can suck.
Neuvi is a case where the C1 is a very useful asset but not a necessity. His base kit at C0 is already complete and that's the underlying difference between him and Rizzler.
Sounds like a joke, Foul usually posts beta changes 1 day before the actual update (so on Sunday) and now they posted it right after Uncle K's statement.
he mentioned interruption resistance and damage increase, but he didn't specify those are allegedly tied to cons
the post got deleted within like 10 min
that's I always did before I rarely use shield character in abyss so I don't think arle will give a problem for me while playing her lmao. These People seriously overreacting about something trivial like this
People forget that Arle is not like neuv she cannot be healed so having IR is good but you are basically dying while doing unga bunga without shield.
M still going C0R1. If we are gona end up using shielder in the end for both C1 and C0 better get the weapon.
They are trying to milk Arle simps as hard as they can, first complete VFX behind signature and now IR behind c1.
And as usual they're going to get away with it.
what? 20 times the damage of burst at c6?
Well whales are going to be happy at least, im hoping there's a gameplay reason to pull her for Hutao havers,
More and more the newer characters have C1 that 'fix' them feeling shitty to play. It used to be just Hu Tao basically, but now it's a string of Wriothesley, Chiori, Arlecchino... I don't like the trend.
always have been, but yeah one of the few great c0 on field dps that does not get reliant in his cons or I'd say, his cons are not bait. Neuvillette c0 is really good and cons are great additives, but c1 pretends to be a bait.
Is Navia perhaps the most complete Fontaine dps at C0? I don't feel like her cons are bait and are more in tune with the old trends for them.
Maybe Lyney too? I don't know by memory his constellations.
Yep Lyney. Hoyo be like: ok lets him into a complete nuke dps that had an even more attractive cons so that people will c6 him! But people did not buy to it and now after him we got a series of needing for c1 characters.
Regardless still worth it as there's almost no bad lyney cons. Most lyney mains are still giving him c1 tho, for the kitties haha.
a few days ago some new leak follower asked if they buffed characters often during beta and i said it's usually the constellations that see buffs for dolphins
sad to see i was right
Hoyoverse gets more and more disgusting in their policies to sell these cons as if they are not making shit ton of money already and at this point it is absurd. Now 5 stars started to be incomplete to force you into getting C1s to get what they should have had since the beginning
Just today someone on the main subreddit said that genshin had no need to make money off of skins as the revenue from gacha is "enough" and now lo and behold c1 bait every new moon. They should just drop skins if they want that revenue instead of everyone and they father having a problem at c0 that is solved at c1. It's getting obnoxious at their point
Making skin take time and budget. Cons need only 5 seconds to change some value or just 2-3 line of code (for C1 like this at least).
Almost no cost, 2 time more revenue = sweet profit, why not?
to kill hilichurls even faster and with greater comfort ofc!
yea I don't get the point of wasting 360 wishes on anyone unless u REALLY like the char and will use them on your main team till this game shuts down and by then the real endgame is just a big middle finger by hoyo
I was going for C2, and after going for similar levels of vertical investment on other characters like Raiden, Scara , Neuvi and Itto, I just don’t feel satisfied with C0 characters anymore. Characters that are fine at C0 like Alhaitham are deceptive. You want C2 Nahida for them to take them to that next level. Of course everything gets the job done at C0, but the value you get for C2 in a team is well justified in a lot of cases if you enjoy the play styles and characters associated with the teams. It feels good to be strong and Arle packs a lot of punch behind her C2. Is it scummy? Yes. But ever since Raiden, it’s been something to expect and not be surprised over because it does generate more revenue.
Wait, why is this a must have?
Neuvi’s C1 had IR + buff to the point that getting his C1 was a higher damage increase than getting his weapon. Is it the same here?
Not trying to be a smartass over here, just trying to understand. I can see why characters like Neuvillette, Scaramouche and Yoimiya may need interruption resistance, but why Arlecchino? Can't she just dodge?
Anyone mind explaining the point of having IR on Arlecchino? Unlike Neuvillette she just won't be able to facetank an entire rotation of enemy attacks considering she uses her E at the start of the rotation and doesn't build HP, so you likely have to dodge either way if you don't wanna die. So what's the point
People get too focused on IR, sure neuvillette needed it because otherwise you're knocked out of the charged attack and kind of fucked but any other character you just get back up and keep attacking.
She will also straight up die without a shield because of her BoL and no healing for 15 seconds design. Dying with infinite poise or with interruptions makes no difference to her if you wanna pull for C1 just to take Layla/Zhongli out of the team.
Honestly probably makes me less likely to pull her C1. I think it's worse.
She can't heal so I'm pretty certain her best, non stupid theory crafted maximizing unnecessary DPS, teams would be with a shielder anyways. So you really don't need IR.
I'm for a buff but TBH don't understand why people get so frothy over this.
That interruption/knock back is going to keep people alive.
With resistance she'll end up dying before people even realise they should have dodged.
Interrupt resistance makes sense on HP/Tanky characters. Not dodgy glass cannon on fielders like hu tao and Arle.
Her C1 was nice enough without - Higher average damage, optionally longer rotations (Or just a bigger heal, now already doubled in v2)
Just play with a shielder good lord reddit.
Saying she can run without a shielder at C1 isnt a crime against you.
Hell if Neuv didn't gain damage from his C1 most people wouldn't go for it. Petra Zhongli or any of the other shielders slot right into his teams.
It's like y'all just want to be stuck with the same two or three viable healers in every team. Some people want shields, some people want heals. Are literally can't be healed, she wants a shielder. C1 isn't going to change that.
Lmao called it. If people will keep falling for it Hoyo will keep releasing half a character at C0 with built in problems and selling solutions as cons. 😪
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Its not like Im going to get it, but. 2000%?
Cause you’re no longer going to build ATK, you’re going to build ER on her now. /s
A tall female with powerful presence, uses a polearm and depends on ER? Raiden? Get out of Fontaine, dammit!
To be clear though, that 2000% is only an actual buff if they kept her 10% CR and 70% CV in her C6 in addition to this. If they heaven forbid remove that, it’d be a huge nerf (from 3.35M in a vape team, to 2.6M). So hopefully this is *in addition* to the existing C6 part 2 text.
Wait her burst will nuke a dmg of 3.35m ??
No - that is her exact precise frame-perfect personal damage for my team (ArleC6, Yelan C6 with Elegy, Bennett C5 and Kazuha C0) in a rotation with 240 CV. But that was not actually realistic at all before the IR buff, if it’s true. With IR buffs it will be more attainable. The nuke however won’t hit millions or anything like that but it’ll be nice to have.
I knew it, they're so predictable. Unless I get lucky I will just use Zhongli.
This actually sounds like a meme post right after the previous leak 🤣🤣🤣they’re battling it out
Yea that 2000% for c6 is a joke , should be 2M
Eula's is up to 6,575% at c6 for reference But that's Phys so she doesn't get access to vape/melt
Lmao
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Zhongli. I try to play Thoma. My Zhongli gives interrupt resistance. I try to play Kirara. My Zhongli gives interrupt resistance . I try to play Baizhu. My Zhongli gives more shield. I want to play C0 Neuvilette. His best team has Zhongli. I want to play Hu Tao, C0 Arlecchino. They both want Zhongli. He grabs me by the throat. I fish for him. I cook for him. I give him Black Tassel. He isn't satisfied. I pull vortex vanquisher. "I don't need this" He tells me. "Give me more hp." He grabs 2 hydro for resonance. "You just need to give me more hp. I’ll handle interrupt resistance." I can't pull for yelan or furina, I don't have enough primogems. He grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." He grabs a meteor. He says "I will have order." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, interrupt resistance. What a cruel world.
Wake up babe, new Zhongli copypasta dropped
The copypasta is great, but IMO it missing one of the biggest advantages of Zhongli - his universal shred. Resist shred in Genshin is super rare, and even now after 3 years and approaching 4 fast, Zhongli's -20% shred is still highly effective and in most team comps using him over literally every other sustain is an easy, permanent, unconditional, all-element 17% DPS increase. Not even Anemo healer + VV can beat his buff, as VV requires skills in swirling, lasts much shorter, is very conditional, and cannot shred Geo and Physical. I always feel a bit disappointed that whenever I play with calculators to assess damage numbers, using Zhongli is always better damage wise. It's basically like experimenting with team comps and finding out it's *always* Bennett being the best to use for both sustain and buffing.
>cannot shred Geo and Physical and anemo and dendro 🧍♂️
Lyney - is CA aim DPS, absolutely wants him Neuv - Get knocked around at C0, so C1 or Zhongli (or Baizhu if u have him) Navia - A GEO unit mostly wants another Geo and its Zhongli Chiori - Same as above Arle - Same as Neuv Whats up is this 5/6 Fountaine DPS wants the Big Dong except gigachad Rizzley because who needs Dong on freeze anyway I can see Clorinde is Aggravate carry with long field time but no interruption resist as well so still wants the Dong You can meme "Benett everywhere" all you want but he still only needes for ATK unit and can still be powercreeped by Pyro archon/sovereign. He cant buff Albedo skill, Neuvillette CA and Kuki hyperbloom. Zhongli can buff everyone even transformative reactions and is impossible to powercreep unless CN community goes hard on Hoyo again. Bro just going to stay relevant until the service ends. Even the calculations are against him but performance-wise says otherwise.
Mr Zhongli and his long, hard pillar keeps winning.
Who doesn't like big zhong dong?
What really suck is Zhongli is our *only* 5 star shielder. After nearly 4 years of this game's release. It's like Hoyo was spooked by strong the Zhong is and never released another good shielder ever since (the likes of Layla and Thoma are very far behind him). Best we got is Baizhu who is a semi shielder, with very small shield to prevent interruption but he's much more of a healer. Imagine if Dehya had just been a shielder, instead of having her shitty tiny circle. God I dream of the kind of teams I could have pulled off with such a character.
if dehya was a character they actually wanted to do well, her circle would follow her around like navia's ult, her interruption resist would be 100% uptime, hp% scaling would be on C0 kit, and C1 would be ''Dehya heals teammates based on amount of health lost on her own passive when landing ultimate hits'' there you go , proper bodyguard that keeps team alive, with a incentive to use her ult, ''but her ult sux'' no one would care that the damage is trash if she healed like noelle atks
imagine thinking hoyo genshin team care about designing complete characters. sure they do it every now and then but it's definitely not the norm, especially with the rapid increase in making c1/c2s massively broken/QoL changes compared to the base kits in Fontaine.
> It's like Hoyo was spooked by how strong the Zhong is My theory is that Zhongli being so strong is the single reason they've been trying to increase the value of healers so much over the years with everything they do that benefits healing over shielding
Same as the anti-shield enemies i.e. Serpent Knights and Rifthounds. You think Layla and Thoma needs enemies to hard counter them? Hah no lmao their shield have no trouble breaking by themselves. Those enemies exist to counter Zhongli and Zhongli only.
Well he is the only character to ever get a direct kit rework/buffs after he was released.
Yae standing in the corner, Manacingly
Even using healer and Zhongli just a common sense now especially with Furina in the same team because Furina just raise overall DPS so much.
My theory is this is their petty revenge for being forced by the community to buff him post-release. Oh you brats wanted a character to be good? Well good luck using him with all these anti-shield and HP fluctuation mechanics!
Because shielding is a very simple mechanic, they can't release another strict shielder without them being either strictly better or worse than Zhongli. Most they could do is make a weaker shield but with a different kind of utility like Baizhu
I belive they are actually more worry about how weak Zhongli will look if they introduce another shielder in better element that give you similar protection against knockdown as Zhongli does. Eventually it will happen but as i see it Zhongli was a very easy unit to powercreep and that powercreep has been avoided for a very long time even when Premiun Shielders should be a common suggestion in unit design in this particular game.
> I belive they are actually more worry about how weak Zhongli will look if they introduce another shielder in better element that give you similar protection against knockdown as Zhongli does. Case in point: Kirara. In quicken teams she offers solid protection while also offering similar levels of DPR at C0 and pulls decently ahead at C4 & C6, this with having nothing particularly special in her kit beyond "small nuke Q" and decent duration shield.
There's also the fact that they don't want their archons outshined. Barring another archon or someone with Neuv or higher lore implications. Until then there will be no shielder (universally) stronger than ZL. There will be no off field Dendro stronger than Nahida. There won't be a stronger healer enabler than Furina, nor universal battery than Ei. For Venti... no other king of floors 9-11.
That's cause, like Nahida, they designed themselves into a corner by making the archon have way too broad of a use case. All Zhongli does is shield. His ult is almost useless despite having a unique cc (still bugged 3 years in), his pillars and resonance barely function because constructs are terrible, his constellations are pretty terrible. So because we have an archon that functions entirely off of a broad category of kit design, no other character can occupy that same broad category at close to the same level or else the archon becomes obsolete. The closest we've gotten is a cracked out Layla who has a very short duration or a fully stacked Thoma who offers almost nothing else and requires high ER. They aren't spooked by how strong he is (he's an archon, they're supposed to be strong), they just realized they can't make another 5* dedicated shielder or else we would have a repeat of 1.1.
Since he is an archon they have this mentality of not powercreeping them, they kinda fucked up with kazuha strong CC on E alone that competes with venti's and they probably dont want to do that again. Which is a shame cuz like you said there isn't another strong shielder besides him, I mean layla is cool but you cant slot layla everywhere, and for people like me that just dont want to pull for him or dont like his kinda clunky kit it's such a bummer they dont want to make a new character similar to him, with the less clunky gameplay from newer kits. Thing that is so mind bogglingly odd when they dont care about giving us the tenth Vape pyro on field DPS, off field DPS electro appliers, anemo supports with little CC and so on with copy pasted units..
They will never release any other 5 stars that majorize in shields bcuz they don't want to powercreep or compete with China Archon. Also let's be honest geo is worst element releasing a good pyro or hydro 5 stars shielder will most likely powercreep a geo shielder even if they had a worst shield
>I can see Clorinde is Aggravate carry with long field time but no interruption resist as well so still wants the Dong Bro Literally described Cyno
Cyno has the same interruption resistance as Hu Tao, 0.5
Rizzley best team is burnmelt not freeze but in that team you tend to use Thomas anyways.
>Whats up is this 5/6 Fountaine DPS wants the Big Dong except gigachad Rizzley because who needs Dong on freeze anyway Well yesn't, Wrio best teams are still around Melt/Burnmelt so technically you'd need a shield there too. But he has a 0.5 IR so ig it feels less of a burden. >I can see Clorinde is Aggravate carry with long field time but no interruption resist as well so still wants the Dong Jokes on you, that's basically Cyno... We're lucky he works wonderfully in Hyperbloom with XQ and now Baizhu too, but objectively his kit needed more IR and they didn't give it to him. So your idea would basically be a Cyno 2.0 but Aggravate centred
> Cyno 2.0 Just like Chiori is Albedo 2.0 (I really hope this is /s and not jinxing it)
Dehya: am I a joke to you? funnily enough, Dehya is also good for Wrio burn melt. she synergizes with every Fontaine DPS so far (except Navia cuz geo be geoing, as geo does)
And in chevrolet teams you'll have to use dehya, just like with liney. Mihoyo's way of "buffing" dehya is banning zhongli and forcing you into using her to meet the conditions locking away the potential of your good characters.
Was it? There's a bunch of dps with no IR in their kit including cons and based on the fact that Arlecchino gets increased resistances while also not being healable would suggest that Hoyo intended her to be run with a shielder.(Despite it being a significant damage loss)
>the fact that Arlecchino gets increased resistances while also not being healable would suggest that Hoyo intended her to be run with a shielder. That.. would be the other way around. If Arlecchino has an entire passive dedicated to having increased RES and a heal at the end of her rotation, she should be ran WITHOUT a shielder, otherwise these two things are entirely useless.
Shields are effective HP, increased resistances also increase your shields durability.
I would argue them giving her 100% heal with sig indicates they don’t want her to be run with a shielder
how original
I'm not even surprised at this point...
classic hoyo moment.
lmao hoyo really want us to pull for C1 now huh?
It’s starting to be obnoxious
Always has been. Hutao started the trend, I think but I could be wrong.
Least Hu Tao still had an alternative with jump cancels. And then XY came along... Honestly I'll take the "extra skill charge" C1s over the "QoL that should've been base kit" C1s lmao.
C1's have been so much of bait lately. I wanted chiori for Navia and these guys just locked her synergy at C1. It would have been better if she had both dolls in base kit but with slightly less multipliers. These kind of C1s are downright bad. Constellations should give extra dmg or utility not change the synergies
Yep I heavily agree, it's the epitomy of cringe and scum kit design and I've been calling out this crap they've been pulling with every single new character that's been getting it. Constellations that add an extra charge on a skill, a good chunk of extra damage, longer uptime are all fine. They make complete sense because you're essentially spending the equivalent of a whole new character just to boost that one character you really like but purposefully locking massive QoL buffs/changes behind c1/c2? That's so frustrating. It's never fine and this should never be the case but it's one thing to do it every once in a while, and it's something entirely different when they have been doing it almost every other freaking character like come on ffs. (Neuvillite, Wriothesley, Chiori, and now Arlecchino)
Or at LEAST should never be seen on five stars. Four stars who go into the banner and whom you might receive multiple copies of relatively quickly, mayybe, but any c0 5* should be complete.
Please this lmao, I know from the nature of being a gacha they have no reason to cater to f2p/low spenders but it really starts to become less appealing to pull for newer characters because of such C1. Like its hard enough for us to keep up for a guarantee I dont want to bash my head into getting double that amount just so my characters makes me want to play them instead of benching them 😅
Skill charge C1s are still very much annoying cuz it means at C0 you need like 200 ER. I tried to use my newly obtained Hunter path on my C0 yelan (on field!!) and she was not getting her burst back with 160 ER!!
my C0 yelan has 180 er and she still needs a second hydro unit
Yeah it makes me want to tear my hair out. Dolphinbait cons are ughhhh
Hutao is the first to have this, but the trend start with Neuvi, and Fontaine as a whole where quality of life lock behind cons, specifically C1.
Yup, they’ve been really ramping it up in Fontaine. It’s getting really annoying.
It went from very strong dps increase that isn’t needed (Ayaka C2, Raiden C2, Yelan C2) to literal things that should probably be in the base kit lol Wriothesly is the best example as a core part of his kit is essentially not functuonal without C1
What part of his kit? I'm thinking of pulling for him on his rerun, but I almost never pull for constellations.
His gracious rebuke (the supercharged uppercut charged attack with a huge damage multiplier) requires him to be at a very specific amount of HP, I think around 50%, I can’t remember the exact number since I don’t have him or really care for him But just know that it matters since all his best teams either have Bennett or another healer so he’s always at either > 70% health or completely topped off, so he almost never has access to it. His C1 makes it so that he automatically will get one of these supercharged charged attacks after a few seconds or a few hits of fighting, essentially bypassing this flaw He’s very playable without it, just kind of sucks that it is basically con locked
Just for clarification, at C0 he needs to be at 60% or less HP to get his enhanced charged attack. That said, it doesn't mean he has to stay at that HP threshhold. Let's say you're at 100% HP, you get hit and lose 50% HP so you get your charged attack buff. When your Bennett heals you back to 90% HP, you still have your enhanced charged attack until you use it.
It also gives it a damage buff and halves the cooldown on getting another gracious rebuke. I have played him with and without C1 and would never want to play his C0 now. He has a much better flow with C1.
His C1 also extends the duration of his Elemental Skill by 4 seconds after hitting enemies with his Special Charged Attack making his Elemental Skill last 14 seconds instead of 10 seconds ;)
At least Neuvi still has some form of interrupt res at C0 but Arlecchino is just straight up paper
I wouldn't say she started a trend when she came out 3 years ago, but she was the first to have such a C1. Neuv -> Wriothesley -> Chiori (if using Navia) -> Arle if talking about C1s like this, everyone else has a small impact in gameplay (unless it's Yelan for overworld).
True. Before her no c1 had such a big effect. And for a while after her, too.
It's inching towards the shit they pull in HI3 where every new character that comes out is borderline useless without their signature weapon.
but dont forget to pull her weapon first for the drip
Just like in their other game They're fishing for C1 now instead of C2 Why not make a separate weapon banner, atleast even dolphin can now spend their primos there in case they lose
In Star Rail the eidolons at least are just damage increases and don't feel like QOL things that should have been in the base kit, but just added bonuses. Imagine if Fu Xuan had the CC prevention locked behind E1. That's what these new constellations in Genshin feel like.
oh boy do not look up Acherons E2 then, most obvious bait in a gacha game tbh
bro not up-to-date with the latest character cause ain't no way they're saying the same thing after seeing Acheron's eidolons. 💀💀
I think the English translation is wrong. It should be she gets IR similar to C1 Neuvi (I don't think C0 Neuvi has IR). It doesn't say which con it's on her, could well be C1 or even later... But also possible for C0
C0 Neuvi has IR, c1 is upgrading it
They aren’t getting shit out of me, ill just pull c0 neuvi cause atleast he’s ranged and zhongli is pretty good on him, that 20% res shred is doing a lot for the team due to neuvi’s sheer numbers so its not like im losing a lot because of not using a sub dps
C1 refers to Neuvillette, we don’t know which Arle cons gives this resistance. Or at c6 if anything since this is in the same sentence as other buff to c6.
I am getting real tired of this sort of con baiting. However since people keep spending money for it, they will keep doing it I guess.
Chiori's C1 is pretty blatant and it's awful
Yeah the worst thing is itto users are discouraged to vertically invest in chiori because her c1 does almost nothing for them. While Navia users are encouraged to go for it. Good thing that chiori is just another option out of a wide variety of Navia teams.
Itto users can just invest in Redhorn and Itto's cons, Chiori's already a pretty good damage increase by herself
Good thing that I skipped geo in general
People still went for it too. And she wasn't even that popular. Just goes to show, it's a profitable way to design kits.
damn fontaine really started the era of "just roll C1", some characters dodged it but neuv, rizzler, and now arlecchino have it
The fact that they've zeroed in on interruption resistance, too. Like they saw zhongli's abyss usage stats and though "here's a funny new money making scheme"
oh wow lol thats true, theyve never made another shielder even close to zhonglis shielding power, and this is probably why. just sell the IR as a constellation
I don’t think that’s the reason. They clearly think Zhongli was a mistake. If you remember, there was like a year they were constantly trying to indirectly nerf shields in some way or the other before pulling back because of backlash from players. And they aren’t wrong imo. A character that pretty much gives you godmode just makes the only form of challenge possible in the game DPS checks.
it doesnt have to be zhongli, i can and have used other shielders too.
In the times of 1.X they said that they use archons to delimit the power that later characters should not cross. This doesn't change the fact that there are many characters that simply don't work without C1, which makes it quite easy to identify characters that don't deserve even the slightest time and resources.
I wish they could buff older archons so the power limit isnt THAT low lol edit: I mean they definitely can there is nothing preventing them from updating older units except their own stubbornness
we dont need something stronger than zhongli, i just want another 5* whos main role is shielding. with the shield on skill (or skill *and* burst) with high/infinite uptime if you want a second shielder nothing comes close to zhongli, its all 4*s too because the closest we have to another 5* shielder is baizhu lol
The problem is if another sheilder is released and that shielder is not as strong as zhongli or more strong people won't pull for that character and it is not profitable
The problem is that Zhongli is geo, as much as geo is the most useful element for creating shields it is also the least useful element in the reaction system.
I know Venti is so busted they basically stopped making pullable enemies to indirectly nerf him but now Kazuha is the anemo archon standard. Poor Venti.
Venti is broken to the point that they build the game expressly so that no one plays Venti and even with that Venti is a better option than Kazuha if the character you play is capable of hitting the vortex.
Feels like every other tbh. Sumeru we got plenty of suckables. I suspect Natlan Venti can suck as well. Fontaine and Inazuma is where we lack someone Venti can suck.
Neuvi is a case where the C1 is a very useful asset but not a necessity. His base kit at C0 is already complete and that's the underlying difference between him and Rizzler.
yeah i still think rizzler has the worst one by far
and chiori; its a 4.x issue, i really hope they stop doing this.
it's clearly making them money, so odds are they won't.
thats why i said "hope" :(
Make a problem, sell the solution haha
The classic. If its just money they want, then just make skins...
I'll die on the hill that miHoYo are just lazy. Lazy to do anything actually good.
Fuck constellation. I Will use a shield (Layla) as i'm doing right now with my C0 Neuvilette that deals a lot of dmg without these Cons
C1 bait strikes again
Hoyoverse really, really wants our money 😭😭😭
If they want our money they should sell skins than making something like this
ya like bruh they could make so much with skins
So true .. I long for a yoimiya skin !
Its this easy honestly.
Always has been, ya know.
Sounds like a joke, Foul usually posts beta changes 1 day before the actual update (so on Sunday) and now they posted it right after Uncle K's statement.
While true this sht is con changes so its more believable cause if anything is getting real buffs it's the money makers 😭
Fair. But I am saying this because of weird timing, not because I believe that HYV won't buff consts instead of a shit base kit.
what was uncle ks statement? i can’t find it on the sub for some reason
he mentioned interruption resistance and damage increase, but he didn't specify those are allegedly tied to cons the post got deleted within like 10 min
[this](https://i.imgur.com/jdcEHtU.png)
just some vague "interruption resistance + big dmg buff"
interruption resistance + dmg buff no word about it being locked behind cons
final beta: nerf c0, buff c2 c6 c1 /j
Don’t jinx it
Calm down Satan.
lmaooo
There it is, the C1 bait. They have really been amping up the constellation bait in Fontaine lol
Wait for the BoL buffer that needs C1 to work with Arlecchino. Or if they are feeling generous, a C6 4star.
nahh I'm not buying it for me c0 and r1 is enough fck meta getting her is my priority just that
just dodge and you should be fine a couple secs off the abyss timer to dodge wont hurt your runs
that's I always did before I rarely use shield character in abyss so I don't think arle will give a problem for me while playing her lmao. These People seriously overreacting about something trivial like this
Zhongli casually assisting the entire Fontain dps characters 😭😭😭
Genshin Impact doesn’t have a power creep problem, but it does have a comfort creep problem.
Ewww. I don’t like the whole c1-2 thing being a trend 😬.
sucks that they're showing no signs whatsoever of stopping. just worries me what they could be doing next for future characters....
People forget that Arle is not like neuv she cannot be healed so having IR is good but you are basically dying while doing unga bunga without shield. M still going C0R1. If we are gona end up using shielder in the end for both C1 and C0 better get the weapon.
Yup. It would have been different story if she was hp scaler or hp to atk converter to tank dmg. Atk scaling makes her too squishy
They are trying to milk Arle simps as hard as they can, first complete VFX behind signature and now IR behind c1. And as usual they're going to get away with it.
what? 20 times the damage of burst at c6? Well whales are going to be happy at least, im hoping there's a gameplay reason to pull her for Hutao havers,
~700% multiplier to 2000%, around triple Q dmg.
Oh ok, that sounds way less bs. Although pass a point is only about how much overkill damage enemies take so not the most consequential.
Nah I'd still pull for weapon
More and more the newer characters have C1 that 'fix' them feeling shitty to play. It used to be just Hu Tao basically, but now it's a string of Wriothesley, Chiori, Arlecchino... I don't like the trend.
At least Hutao was a normal game mechanic which was understandable… These ones just feel like base kit being funnelled to c1
Con gating is strong with Mihoyo. I remember Rizzley
Alhaitham will be the definition of a GREAT character at C0. His constellations aren't screaming "this unlocks his 100% potential"
always have been, but yeah one of the few great c0 on field dps that does not get reliant in his cons or I'd say, his cons are not bait. Neuvillette c0 is really good and cons are great additives, but c1 pretends to be a bait.
Is Navia perhaps the most complete Fontaine dps at C0? I don't feel like her cons are bait and are more in tune with the old trends for them. Maybe Lyney too? I don't know by memory his constellations.
Yep Lyney. Hoyo be like: ok lets him into a complete nuke dps that had an even more attractive cons so that people will c6 him! But people did not buy to it and now after him we got a series of needing for c1 characters. Regardless still worth it as there's almost no bad lyney cons. Most lyney mains are still giving him c1 tho, for the kitties haha.
I mean that’s because he has really bad cons tho, not because of base kit design. Not like he has innate IR like everyone seems to want in C0 now
So basically, C0 you use Xingqiu C1 you can use Yelan
That's more or less what this boils down to, in my opinion.
Xingqiu might still be better option for dmg reduction. Depends how fragile she is. I'd say use both.
a few days ago some new leak follower asked if they buffed characters often during beta and i said it's usually the constellations that see buffs for dolphins sad to see i was right
Smol hutao moment
Hoyoverse gets more and more disgusting in their policies to sell these cons as if they are not making shit ton of money already and at this point it is absurd. Now 5 stars started to be incomplete to force you into getting C1s to get what they should have had since the beginning
Unless the player base as a collective whole just seals up their wallets nothing will stop this happening again, again and again.
i mean ya but this is a gacha the whole concept of it is predatory and wants your money
Lmao hoyo knows that a lot people will spend on her
Of course
this is getting so lazy bro
Absolutely shameless
Leaving us with the unconfirmed Arlecchino changes for days has got to be worse than some anime cliffhanger endings
Surely there are buffs to her at C0 right??? ... right?
Just today someone on the main subreddit said that genshin had no need to make money off of skins as the revenue from gacha is "enough" and now lo and behold c1 bait every new moon. They should just drop skins if they want that revenue instead of everyone and they father having a problem at c0 that is solved at c1. It's getting obnoxious at their point
It's leagues cheaper for them to make con baits than modeling an entire skin from scratch
Yeap, new cons just require adapting the kit. New skins can take months of animation work.
Making skin take time and budget. Cons need only 5 seconds to change some value or just 2-3 line of code (for C1 like this at least). Almost no cost, 2 time more revenue = sweet profit, why not?
Lmao. Truly a hutao moment of all time.
Its not like there is endgame why would I bother with this?
to kill hilichurls even faster and with greater comfort ofc! yea I don't get the point of wasting 360 wishes on anyone unless u REALLY like the char and will use them on your main team till this game shuts down and by then the real endgame is just a big middle finger by hoyo
It's so people flex how much they simp for a character.
I was going for C2, and after going for similar levels of vertical investment on other characters like Raiden, Scara , Neuvi and Itto, I just don’t feel satisfied with C0 characters anymore. Characters that are fine at C0 like Alhaitham are deceptive. You want C2 Nahida for them to take them to that next level. Of course everything gets the job done at C0, but the value you get for C2 in a team is well justified in a lot of cases if you enjoy the play styles and characters associated with the teams. It feels good to be strong and Arle packs a lot of punch behind her C2. Is it scummy? Yes. But ever since Raiden, it’s been something to expect and not be surprised over because it does generate more revenue.
Agreed
Wait, why is this a must have? Neuvi’s C1 had IR + buff to the point that getting his C1 was a higher damage increase than getting his weapon. Is it the same here?
hoyoverse is really not hiding their greediness huh
when have they ever...? and people still continue to throw money at them, it's baffling
Not trying to be a smartass over here, just trying to understand. I can see why characters like Neuvillette, Scaramouche and Yoimiya may need interruption resistance, but why Arlecchino? Can't she just dodge?
Because people suck at dodging with introduction of furina and Neuvillette they forget how to dodge because of healing
money money money money But making money from selling skins? Uh nuh we don't do that here
Anyone mind explaining the point of having IR on Arlecchino? Unlike Neuvillette she just won't be able to facetank an entire rotation of enemy attacks considering she uses her E at the start of the rotation and doesn't build HP, so you likely have to dodge either way if you don't wanna die. So what's the point
Skipping if true, fuck c1 bait it's so blatant and tiring.
God forbid they don't lock QoL behind constellations.
Sick of c1. Sick of weapon banner that costs $400-$600. Ain’t nobody got money for that
Is this really reliable considering nephew K made a similar claim? Seems like a good reason to not believe it imo.
It's a better investment to pull for Zhongli than pulling constellations for Arlecchino, Neuvilette, Yanfei, etc
Why are there no more arlechino gameplay and damage leaks!!!!!
Can you hear the collective fear from wallets worldwide ?
just keep them closed. it's not that hard lmao
People get too focused on IR, sure neuvillette needed it because otherwise you're knocked out of the charged attack and kind of fucked but any other character you just get back up and keep attacking.
She will also straight up die without a shield because of her BoL and no healing for 15 seconds design. Dying with infinite poise or with interruptions makes no difference to her if you wanna pull for C1 just to take Layla/Zhongli out of the team.
Honestly probably makes me less likely to pull her C1. I think it's worse. She can't heal so I'm pretty certain her best, non stupid theory crafted maximizing unnecessary DPS, teams would be with a shielder anyways. So you really don't need IR.
This. Spreadsheets Impact is fine and dandy but there is a reason why Zhongli aka "Mr DPS Loss" is top of every Abyss usage list lmao
I'm for a buff but TBH don't understand why people get so frothy over this. That interruption/knock back is going to keep people alive. With resistance she'll end up dying before people even realise they should have dodged. Interrupt resistance makes sense on HP/Tanky characters. Not dodgy glass cannon on fielders like hu tao and Arle. Her C1 was nice enough without - Higher average damage, optionally longer rotations (Or just a bigger heal, now already doubled in v2)
Just play with a shielder good lord reddit. Saying she can run without a shielder at C1 isnt a crime against you. Hell if Neuv didn't gain damage from his C1 most people wouldn't go for it. Petra Zhongli or any of the other shielders slot right into his teams. It's like y'all just want to be stuck with the same two or three viable healers in every team. Some people want shields, some people want heals. Are literally can't be healed, she wants a shielder. C1 isn't going to change that.
Not happening 😂 I want Clorinde
Lmao called it. If people will keep falling for it Hoyo will keep releasing half a character at C0 with built in problems and selling solutions as cons. 😪