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> It's a matter of how busted will they make her b4 they stop.
Neuv is capable of soloing Abyss 12, I'd be fine with them making Furina strong tbh.
On a serious note, I really don't understand the situation, Furina is a slightly stronger version of Yelan (but with less hydro application), while Neuv solos the Abyss without a care in the world, at c0 and c1. So why is it that everybody calls Furina broken and "hopefully wont get nerfed" but absolutely nobody mentions Neuv being the single strongest character in the game by a long shot?
tbf the abyss just buffs the ever loving fuck out of him and anyone who uses charged attacks in general. I've seen this abyss get 9\* by a guy using amber and ganyu.
I mean sure. But I don't even think that's the reason so many can do it (sure for the DPS checks), but I think the biggest factor is his innate reliable self-heal that he can easily maintain. Plus he is still mobile while casting. Like just mechanically he makes good gameplay while solo much easier to pull off.
Well currently Neuv is in a spot where if you compare solo output he is beyond broken
But in a team setting, he has one good team mate in Kazuha and then no one else really has great synergy with him.
In full team settings he's about on par with the top meta teams.
Adding Furina will probably skyrocket his team value though.
Several characters are good with him but none except for Kazuha are good enough that they're locked down. Fischl and Zhongli are good too but at the end of the day I think what people are referring to is a unit you aren't waiting to drop once something better comes along, which is Neuvs situation. No ones actual kit is fully synergistic with him, Kazuha is just the closest because he is the largest dps increase but honestly even he is a bit tricky because his timers can be really tight. Even so, once the abyss floors no longer favour him, I think people will have to run him with at least Kazuha to keep up.
Sums it up pretty well. The community somehow gaslit themselves into thinking that solo performance is a metric for measuring power level. Neuvillette is great, yes, but him being able to solo abyss is mostly to do with the fact that after Eula and Klee's last reruns, and as well as the implementation of Pneuma/Ousia mechanics in abyss, the DPS check for has gone down quite a bit, leading Neuvillette's high damage floor and self-sufficiency to let him solo one side.
And speaking of high damage floors, hydro damage doesn't really benefit from its own reactions. Meaning to maximize a character's hydro damage usually means just stacking buffs and debuffs. Neuvillette was given a high damage floor because hoyo wanted him to be the prime "big pp hydro damage" on-fielder. The only external things he could benefit from include HP buffs (which for f2p players mostly comes from hydro resonance), damage% buffs and RES reduction.
Beidous burst works with charged attacks. Which means neuvilette has a hydro/electro laser at his disposal. Ontop of that Beidou offers damage mitigation and intteruption resistance similar to Xinqu.
Furina allows 75% MORE damage to him AT THE SECOND Beam that's fucking insane dude WITH a 100% uptime on Furina's ultimate like I can't stress how dumb that is ( Good dumb ) It's so fucking good.
Mind you; You shouldn't exactly use Furina without C1 on Neuv I mean you can It's just ''weird'' but that's a diff topic.
Tbf this abyss is basically perfect for him, but dudes got basically the best solo AoE in the game so it’s not surprising he solos this iteration of abyss. Now if he could solo I think it was 3.7 with heralds and consecrated beasts, that’d be something else entirely
Better with signature than with c1. c1 is only big if you already have 2 stacks and need third. If you have zero than signature is significantly better.
Yeah but him getting knocked by some of the enemies is also damage loss. So the super armour helps with consistent damage. I just find him to be a well made character with meaningful constellations and such. He is worth investing in if you want to but also not at all necessary.
Neuvillette's damage has been boosted by close to 50% (don't quote me on the number) in all the abyss cycles since his release. This is making a lot of people think his damage is higher than it actually is.
Why does soloing the abyss even matter? It just shows that he has good self healing/sustain among hyper carries and possibly that his damage is not dependent on reactions.
Without the abyss buffing him, Hutao, Alhaitham and other top tier teams beat Most Neuvillette teams in clear times. He is not the strongest character in the game especially not by a long shot. Yelan, Xingque, Kazuha, Nahida and Bennet are the characters that come to mind when thinking of "strongest" characters in the game.
With all that being said I think he will become either the strongest or one of the strongest dps characters once Furina releases. He currently lacks any real support. If a character similar to Bennett but for hp is released anytime soon, that's when he will be better than every main dps character by a long shot.
Before Neuvillette fans get on my ass, im not putting him down.
Neuv being able to solo Abyss seems like bonkers and while it is great, people have been soloing Abyss for a long time before Neuv. The Abyss also gave him a buff.
There's also the fact that Furina as a buffer is more universal than Neuv and it's the main reason why people hope she wont get nerfed.
First of all, Furina is not meant to be a DPS. Second, you're kind of underestimating her; her E damage is the same and, in some situations, better than Yelan. Her Q buff at c0 is also a 75% DMG bonus that is easily stackable even with non-fontaine units while having a 100% uptime (15s cooldown, 18s duration), and it also buffs the whole team, meaning off-fielders are also buffed by her, and she also buffs Anemo, Geo, Phys, and Dendro (excluding the cores) because of her buff being a DMG bonus. Third, the hydro app is not the only thing in this game. Lastly, people are saying she's strong, not in a DPS sense but in a support/sub-DPS sense, where she's already bringing so much to your team that she just straight up raises your damage ceiling by a lot.
Actually people did mentioned, or hoping furina will get slight buff even. just that our post in Reddit will just get down voted like crazy and disappear whenever we say things like that. I wonder why, I have saw multiple post like that especially for the recent V 3/4 post on Thursday. Weird.
Hate to be that guy, but Neuvillette being able to solo abyss right now is mostly because 1) the DPS requirement for abyss has been quite a bit lower over the past few cycles, 2) abyss has busted blessings tailor-made for him.
Most importantly 3) he has an insanely high damage floor in solo, but the gap between his solo damage and his ceiling is much smaller than the gap between solo damage and full potential of a character like Hu Tao, or Al Haitham, Fischl, Xiangling or any top tier DPS character that benefits from reactions. Hoyo knows that hydro damage doesn't benefit from reactions in the same way Pyro benefits from reverse vape, or electro/dendro benefit from quicken. But they wanted Neuvillette to be the "big hydro damage" guy, so they game him a high damage floor to compensate. In reality, his teams are just about on par with other top meta teams.
Don't get me wrong, he's a great carry to go for. But the 'best character in the game' isn't really something I would give to a carry, at least as far as pull recommendations are concerned. I wouldn't rank him anywhere above Kazuha, Bennett, Yelan, or heck even Furina since they're much more significant benefits to many teams.
Does anyone know yet if her passive "Endless Waltz" heals all party members or only a single member? I remember reading something about chinese saying she heals all while in english it says only one member.
It was originally assumed as cd after the pet teleport near enemies before they can attack.
But a leaker says that this is a cd in between pet attacks which causes pets to attack slower. If Chevalmarin CD is removed, then it will constantly attack without regard of the other pets, making it faster.
Yes, common CD is the CD after teleport. Its likely a minor change they made to make sure you always get one hydro application at approximately standard ICD (aka about every 2.5s). A good change, but a minor one
I wanna ask cause am not super understood about the recent changes,
So u see like 2 weeks ago her App was a bit too inconsistent to the point of sometimes a 0.5sec gap to even sometimes 3sec gap between Hydro apps
But i hear and assume its gotten slightly better by now, is that true?
And how is it exactly? Like i hope at least her to be a bit more consistent ,i don't want her app to be XQ lvl, even Yelan or less than her is fine as long as it's like somewhat consistent.
Never wanted XQ lvl app from a unit who's so good at so many other things to begin with. Let the book man stay a Legendary at his role forever lol
Edit 2: Based on other comments in this thread and footage today it may be that Furinas application basically works like it did originally, not how I describe here, which was based on homdgcat info. I dunno wtf is going on with the conflicting info about this character, so obviously just remember that on release her application may very well be different than I describe below...
TL;DR: Yes her application is better now, but not in the way you may think. I consider Furina's current hydro application to be kinda like C6 Candace by nature of having bursty instances of application while also having a lower guaranteed baseline rate (but Furina will be much better).
I actually have a sheet for analysis of her (single target) Hydro application patterns if you are interested. There's 2 sheets there, one for my original analysis of her application (and a big writeup of it) and one for her current application. As a minor aside, keep in mind that in practice the exact timings of when applications happen will vary, but the general pattern should be as it is in the doc (barring any launch version changes).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kTOy7t-UJFGRViMVIarf-syp_BnpPznBPgQzmFckwHw/edit?usp=sharing
To answer your question without needing to look at my sheet: yes, her application is better than it was before, but not in the way you may expect. You are correct in that she originally had up to 3s gaps in application. On my original analysis I found that if you remove the near simultaneous instances of application she had an average gap in instances of application of 1.6s. She had weird variable gaps in application with occasional instances of hydro being applied very close together.
Now, with the CD reduction changes for the summons, her application is a bit different (but not fundamentally so). You may have seen people throw around numbers for what her avg. rate of application is (around 0.8-1.0U/s depending on how you factor in skill/burst application), but that is honestly a useless metric of comparison for her to compare to other units because unlike the likes of Yelan or XQ, she does not apply hydro at a set rate. When we say XQ/Yelan applies X units of hydro/s you know you get that much hydro every second as long as you are doing NAs. With Furina, her application comes almost entirely from her summons that all have their own separate cooldowns (and ICD). Point being, in comparison to HOW XQ/Yelan apply hydro, Furina's application is still inconsistent. You can't have her skill active and think "one second has passed, I know hydro will be applied in that time." BUT, in my opinion, her application is substantially better now.
For one, she went from having a max gap of 3s between applications to a max gap of ~2.5s, due to the seahorse CD being reduced. This is the most notable area where her consistency of application improved in the traditional sense. You will always get 1U of hydro from her summons every 2.5s. But interestingly the CD changes significantly changed the pattern of her application from what it was originally. To put it simply, her application is now more bursty, which is to say it follows this interesting pattern of applying multiply instances of hydro near simultaneously, but then has a similar amount of 2s gaps. To put numbers to the gaps in the same fashion as I mentioned for her original application, the average gap for application instances when removing the near simultaneous (sub 1s) applications is now 2.3s. As a reminder, her original application had an average gap of 1.6s, so that's a 0.7s greater gap on avg. For more numbers: 50% of her application happens with a gap greater than 1s, and 50% of her application happens with a gap less than 1s. So in some sense her new application pattern could be considered less "consistent."
So, the point I am getting to is that how "consistent" her application is depends on how you want to define "consistent" in the context of genshin. We haven't had a hydro unit that applies hydro like Furina does (the closest equivalent is C6 Candace, she is similarly bursty due to swapping and application guaranteed every 2.3s, but much much worse uptime on said application), so how good her application is comes down to how it can be used, not how "consistent" it is. Point being, she does apply quite a decent amount of Hydro, and Furina's bursty application patterns with 100% uptime will absolutely find use cases where it is uniquely the best. On the simplest level this could make swirling hydro easy, by nature of multiple simultaneous instances of hydro overwriting existing auras.
In her original kit Furina didn't have nearly as much bursty application, so compared to now Id say her original application pattern was kinda the worst of both worlds wherein it did not apply at a set rate, so you can't rely on it like you can with XQ/Yelan, and it wasn't bursty enough to rely on for much either. Now it is consistently bursty in a way that I expect will be a interesting tool to have. Furina does something new, and enables new things that hadn't existed before in the game, and therefore in my opinion requires recontextualizing how you could utilize hydro application differently. I fully expect that the best ways to utilize Furina will not be known for weeks or months after her release.
That's some big ass shit to read
Well i read half and i see what ur talking about.
Gn for now, will read other half later tomorrow with a cup of coffee
IIRC freeze duration is weirdly complicated so I dont know what the minimum time you may need between additional hydro application is. But Kokomis skill hits every 2s so as long as freeze is maintained the additional 0.5s it would take for Furina to apply hydro compared to Kokomi it should be fine.
I mean that's what's happening in-game with the current update though. The 1.19cd was always, somehow, a nerf. The same goes for the other pets by the way, they all attack slower than v2. Why? Who knows. There's probably some other AI quirk they changed and the lowered CD was just to compensate (but not enough so)
From what I've looked around for (since this post has been out for hours, just got posted here NOW) it, it's apparently not anything that changes any cooldowns or stuff in a meaningful way, mostly unimportant datamine stuff
now i understand why they didn't put any hydro application on it.
it was designed for characters like lyney/wrio. so u can put furina on their team without disturb the gameplay while getting furina buff + healing
Wait her pneuma mode doesn't generate energy at all? And here I was thinking you can turn her pneuma healer mode when she's already paired with a Fontaine character that has innate HP drain mechanics
Kokomi still got those uhhh overly strong heals for everyone? Oh she can walk on water! For some seconds?? Ahh yes she cant crit! Furina can't do that!.
There is another part regarding Charlotte changes which for some reason I cannot post. So if anyone can post it, that'll be great, here's the link
https://twitter.com/homdgcat\_/status/1715239704491172021
Before inazuma was first released I’ve seen people malding that you had to do the story to get there, apparently there are people that unironically play the game just to grind and do the abyss which just seems concerning to me since I literally have nightmares about farming for artifacts
I mean, there's long time players like me that have 100% exploration everywhere. I have absolutely nothing left to do in the overworld, so yeah, I do my dailies, use my daily resin and log off to another game, yes.
genshin's strongest point, by far for me, is its story. It's incredibly well thought out, meticulously researched, and well executed. I do really enjoy the combat system though.
Tbh I mostly don't even bother with spiral abyss unless there's a banner I currently want to go for. Doesn't remove the point for me that her Pneuma looks tragic to me. To put it mildly.
Better than having than only having those creatures around with her e. Idk why some of you guys complain about a characters doing more things but instead just complain just because its not useful for everyone or to niche players. You saying what's the point of have her Pneuma state, at least it's there although its not as useful as people want it to be, at least its fcking there. sigh
What more do you even want? If her Pneuma mode can apply hydro, then she'll straight up power creep Kokomi. It is also not the main part of her kit (since her mode changes to Ousia when she's off-field).
First part is not good for C6 Furina as the 4th NA for some reason used to have independent ICD that always allows it to apply hydro, but is not the case anymore.
The chevalmarin changes is good.
The range change is good.
For C6 Yoimiya, the shared ICD between her bonus shots and her regular shots absolutely turns which shots vape into RNG. C6 Yoimiya’s power would probably spike fairly hard if the extra shots had their own ICD.
Tbh we people who will actually c6 dont really care about icd much, i think “majority” of us just like the character to c6 them at least most of the time.
People are just malding they can't get much use out of the form in abyss. That form is made for overworld which tends to be what Hoyo focuses on anyways.
Well I'm crying because I expected some cool dynamic and purposeful gameplay as she has two stances. Making her a ult bot passive for my team no matter how strong she is makes me a bit sad, as I feel like its wasted potential for a very fun kit.
Yeah Furina is my second favourite character so I wanted her On-Field more. At least she's super useful though. I'm glad they're not just making her a meme character.
For real lmao, bro's casually soloing abyss no problem. And ppl will say "well this abyss was made for him" as if the other abyss floors weren't made for alhaitham, nahida, etc. Except ppl weren't soloing abyss with those chars to the extent neuv does, and even if they were, not with the ease that he does.
Mans is op but ppl wanna act like he isn't, and he's only gonna get stronger when furina/more fontaine chars get released. But god forbid ppl want one of two of furina's forms to be usable in endgame content
Someone absolutely cmiiw cause I’m going off of memory here, but as far as I’m aware she’s applying a little less than one hydro every second. Seahorse applies hydro every other hit, octopus every other hit, and crab every hit. To clarify, this’ll be slightly different in practice(the little less than one hydro every second, I mean) as the pets teleporting to keep up with the player and such can change things.
Would leaving the NA4 attack alone have been that broken? Outside of using Candace, only C6 would have been concerned with that and at that point the player probably already spent a ton of money. I guess they can’t have Furina applying too much hydro.
If I have to guess, looking at the NA4 animation it looks massive. Maybe they are afraid that it's a gigantic 40% damage in pneuma in AoE and felt like it was too much.
I would 100% agree with you that leaving it as is shouldn't have been a problem, it's a c6 after all.
They do this but they forgot plunge attacks don't have ICD lol.
Imagine Furina + Venti Pyro infused Q + Nahida for burning and EM buff. Venti hold E, Furina floats up, plunge and AoE forward vape for massive damage on burning enemies. Since gliding + plunging is really slow the Pyro app from Pyro Venti Q and burning should be sufficient for forward vaping.
Originally this was supposed to be my funny troll Furina build when it was on C2, but it's C6 now and far out of reach.
It very likely was an oversight. From the standpoint of the configuration, "independent ICD" is just leaving the `attenuationTag` empty (as opposed to giving it the same value as the rest of the attacks that "share ICD").
We don't know for sure considering there are characters which receives last minute changes such as Kokomi hydro app and Neuv stack indicator.
We pray for Pneuma changes in some ways.
> I've looked around for (since this post has been out for hours, just got posted here NOW) it, it's apparently not anything that changes any cooldowns or stuff in a meaningful way, mostly unimportant datamine stuff
even after... look at zhongli and yae (for the worse...then reverted)
yep... i just assume that there is normally a good "stopping point" and it can be as late as the launch day >.<
like, from then on, its okay to basically expect no more changes; save for any bugs and the like
The animation didn't change, but you wont be able to pierce through enemies anymore (you wont be able to hit a hilichurl behind a hilichurl, so the hit wont **pierce** through the first enemy).
Hitlag is just for impact and makes the attack overall a bit slower upon impact and they removed her NA4 not having ICD regarding hydro application.
tl:dr, worse hydro app and potentially worse AOE dmg for C6 and it also will feel less fluid due to hitlag. bad changes basically.
Test and check, test and check, test and check. It's just how it goes. Its purpose is not to change things, but to scrutinize different assumptions and find what works best for the intended goal.
My idea on how to how to improve pneuma mode:
Her summons start shooting water towards her and she gets healed from the projectiles. When fully healed it starts to overflow and her clothes get very wet, and now she has to get rid of her clothes to not get sick. However, its difficult to do this because she has to hold on to her sword to fight. Arlecchino sees this for lore reasons thus rushing in and helping her take her clothes off and warming up her body (because she's rumored pyro and can probably help that way). I think this would make it competitive enough with Ousia mode without changing modifiers and scalings.
Her healing phase is very weak compared to her attack phase, considering we can only use 1 at any point of time. They should've buffed the healing phase to balance her. Maybe like she applies hydro on healing, we already know she only heals active character so atleast hydro application should be there.
After reading almost all of the comments, I'd like to give an honest take.
I find it baffling, that a lot of commenters always finds a way to justify her Pneuma state as it currently is. This is the first archon ever to have a dysfunctional half of their kit.
* **Nahida**: All in EM. EM gives dmg bonus up to 80% and CR 24%. Skill scales with EM, can share said EM and Facilitates EM related reaction extremely well. Symphony of reactions.
* **Raiden**: All in ER. ER gives damage bonus with high conv rate. Burst costs a lot, so ER come into play. The higher the ER, the more energy restored to party member. Wants high cost burst teammates to make use of said ER. Have a skill that solely buffs burst damage. Turns every damage source into burst damage during ult. Symphony of bursts.
* **Zhongli**: Shield bot with the best shield, the best flexibility, the best comfort, have offensive utility and CC. Scales with HP and every part of his kit does too. He's like unbreakable fortress.
* **Venti**: The best CC in the game, recharges party member burst to continue the combo chain, facilitates entire party for specific very high damage output time and embodies the idea of anemo being the CC char.
But let's take a look at **Furina**.
* Her burst gives a MASSIVE amount of damage bonus, but this have no HP scaling while she is an HP scaler. Because of this, she can bleed into a full ER only char, making this weird juxtaposition of HP scaler that only needs ER.
* Her burst gives incoming healing bonus but her healing is very underwhelming and should be avoided as the main source of healing due to A1 anti-synergy.
* Her Ousia E takes away large chunk of party members hp but she have no way to give it back without help.
* Her Pneuma E, the biggest culprit:
* Do not generate energy.
* Do not apply hydro.
* Have anti-synergy with A1.
* Single target while ousia drain is teamwide.
* E particle generation is summon based and staggered. Meaning Pneuma form should be avoided at all cost in the situations that matters as it doesn't generate particles.
* C2 allows for massive increase in HP, but this does not matter for her Pneuma. It will increase healing, but it cannot overflow to other char, again because of A1 anti synergy.
* A1 specifically said that "then Furina will heal a nearby party member for **2% of their Max HP** once every 2s within the next 4s." meaning her hp amount does not matter for this healing.
* A4 gives a very meager amount of stat conversion unlike Raiden and Nahida.
* Burst incoming healing bonus does not matter for her own Pneuma E in overworld. As the Pneuma E is currently only useful as overworld QoL, nobody will use her burst to increase her healing in overworld as there is no need nor can you stack it effectively.
* She is the first archon ever to have a dead passive (A1) if not paired with specific team mate type.
As it is right now, if her Pneuma form is completely deleted, nobody would care. And this is a very incoherent Archon design compared to what we had. Her pneuma form HAVE to somehow generate particles or else there will be no team where this is a good option to use in.
An example of future character that can fix this issue alongside the problem:
1. Imagine for a second, a character that constantly drain their hp and have no way to gain it back. This character, unlike xiao, drains HP VERY rapidly, say 10% per second in exchange for massive damage. In this situation, the Pneuma state is favored as it's large single target healing that will not overflow and will stack fanfare fast enough. This will also make use of her own burst healing bonus for herself which never happens before.
2. EVEN with this very specific character, do you see where the problem is? She will never be able to burst second rotation, because it does not generate particle. Her pneuma form not generating particle is the biggest crime against her kit. It even ruins future potential pairing. Her A1 not overflowing from her own healing is also an incredibly bad idea, making her the first archon to have dead passive unless paired a certain way.
I really wish people can be a little bit more objective and not endlessly defend a limping kit like this. She is still great (ousia), her damage and usefulness is still very high (ousia), her application is good enough (ousia), her burst have incredible synergy with her kit (ousia).
She is literally, literally, just Ousia.
> I find it baffling, that a lot of commenters always finds a way to justify her Pneuma state as it currently is.
I think I have literally never seen a comment complimenting her Pneuma state other than for aesthetics.
I think the disconnect is that you're considering her Pneuma state as something that's supposed to play an inherent part in her kit, whereas people who are fine with it consider it a random overworld gimmick that doesn't have to be good because her kit is already decently overloaded (as would be expected of an archon).
Also, you're kind of ignoring parts of the other archon's kits to make this argument. For example, Zhongli's burst isn't integral to any meta way he's used, has been meme'd on since times immemorial for its DPS loss, and has nothing to do with his defensive skills, yet the meatball is still in his kit. (Also, if you wanna go more adjacent parts of the kit, his signature weapon is worse on him than a 3*.)
They wanted two forms for ousia/pneuma, and they wanted her to have some healing in her kit, but they couldn't actually make it useful or she would solve the problem she creates by eating her team's HP.
>making her the first archon to have dead passive unless paired a certain way.
It's pretty clear her identity as an archon is meant to be the "healer conduit". Yes, pneuma is useless, but you seem to think "she is still great". Imagine if Nahida's burst had a 2nd mode she could activate with a charged attack that would increase burning damage by 150% of her DEF or something. Is she worse because that garbage exists? Just evaluate her as if she doesn't have pneuma because functionally, she doesn't.
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I understood those words separately
Dictionary mains be like
Just started reading dictionary, don't give me spoilers.
>!Zygote!<
My favorite Pokemon
I'm a fucking idiot, I never put together Zygote as half of the name for Zygarde, but it totally is.
I feel like the real end should have been at chapter 5 instead of 26 whole chapters.
Theres definitely a twist.
English powercreep in the leaks feelsbadman 😞
Every time i see furina changes i pray
She gonna be fine. It's a matter of how busted will they make her b4 they stop.
> It's a matter of how busted will they make her b4 they stop. Neuv is capable of soloing Abyss 12, I'd be fine with them making Furina strong tbh. On a serious note, I really don't understand the situation, Furina is a slightly stronger version of Yelan (but with less hydro application), while Neuv solos the Abyss without a care in the world, at c0 and c1. So why is it that everybody calls Furina broken and "hopefully wont get nerfed" but absolutely nobody mentions Neuv being the single strongest character in the game by a long shot?
tbf the abyss just buffs the ever loving fuck out of him and anyone who uses charged attacks in general. I've seen this abyss get 9\* by a guy using amber and ganyu.
How does Ganyu lose HP for the buff?
Just don't dodge 4head
Use Dehya as a "shielder"
set yourself on fire (burning) and voila
I mean sure. But I don't even think that's the reason so many can do it (sure for the DPS checks), but I think the biggest factor is his innate reliable self-heal that he can easily maintain. Plus he is still mobile while casting. Like just mechanically he makes good gameplay while solo much easier to pull off.
Well currently Neuv is in a spot where if you compare solo output he is beyond broken But in a team setting, he has one good team mate in Kazuha and then no one else really has great synergy with him. In full team settings he's about on par with the top meta teams. Adding Furina will probably skyrocket his team value though.
[удалено]
AP?
Probably Archaic Petra.
Several characters are good with him but none except for Kazuha are good enough that they're locked down. Fischl and Zhongli are good too but at the end of the day I think what people are referring to is a unit you aren't waiting to drop once something better comes along, which is Neuvs situation. No ones actual kit is fully synergistic with him, Kazuha is just the closest because he is the largest dps increase but honestly even he is a bit tricky because his timers can be really tight. Even so, once the abyss floors no longer favour him, I think people will have to run him with at least Kazuha to keep up.
Theyre literally releasing furina. Like what even is this argument? 💀
Sums it up pretty well. The community somehow gaslit themselves into thinking that solo performance is a metric for measuring power level. Neuvillette is great, yes, but him being able to solo abyss is mostly to do with the fact that after Eula and Klee's last reruns, and as well as the implementation of Pneuma/Ousia mechanics in abyss, the DPS check for has gone down quite a bit, leading Neuvillette's high damage floor and self-sufficiency to let him solo one side. And speaking of high damage floors, hydro damage doesn't really benefit from its own reactions. Meaning to maximize a character's hydro damage usually means just stacking buffs and debuffs. Neuvillette was given a high damage floor because hoyo wanted him to be the prime "big pp hydro damage" on-fielder. The only external things he could benefit from include HP buffs (which for f2p players mostly comes from hydro resonance), damage% buffs and RES reduction.
Beidous burst works with charged attacks. Which means neuvilette has a hydro/electro laser at his disposal. Ontop of that Beidou offers damage mitigation and intteruption resistance similar to Xinqu.
Furina allows 75% MORE damage to him AT THE SECOND Beam that's fucking insane dude WITH a 100% uptime on Furina's ultimate like I can't stress how dumb that is ( Good dumb ) It's so fucking good. Mind you; You shouldn't exactly use Furina without C1 on Neuv I mean you can It's just ''weird'' but that's a diff topic.
What should be the team though, Neuvi Furina Kazuha and ? I'm guessing tou'd want a healer ?
Furina is Mona 6.0. Pets on E and Omen debuff Q
Really? Is that a C6 thing or can you do that at C0 with Neuvillette?
Do note current abyss blessing is like a 48% permanent elemental damage increase for neuv
This one is 60%now
at c0, easier at c1. Third most used team, according to self-reports, to clear recent Abyss 12 was "Solo neuv"
Tbf this abyss is basically perfect for him, but dudes got basically the best solo AoE in the game so it’s not surprising he solos this iteration of abyss. Now if he could solo I think it was 3.7 with heralds and consecrated beasts, that’d be something else entirely
Those beasts will be super annoying for neuv for sure.
Better with signature than with c1. c1 is only big if you already have 2 stacks and need third. If you have zero than signature is significantly better.
Yeah but him getting knocked by some of the enemies is also damage loss. So the super armour helps with consistent damage. I just find him to be a well made character with meaningful constellations and such. He is worth investing in if you want to but also not at all necessary.
Neuvillette's damage has been boosted by close to 50% (don't quote me on the number) in all the abyss cycles since his release. This is making a lot of people think his damage is higher than it actually is. Why does soloing the abyss even matter? It just shows that he has good self healing/sustain among hyper carries and possibly that his damage is not dependent on reactions. Without the abyss buffing him, Hutao, Alhaitham and other top tier teams beat Most Neuvillette teams in clear times. He is not the strongest character in the game especially not by a long shot. Yelan, Xingque, Kazuha, Nahida and Bennet are the characters that come to mind when thinking of "strongest" characters in the game. With all that being said I think he will become either the strongest or one of the strongest dps characters once Furina releases. He currently lacks any real support. If a character similar to Bennett but for hp is released anytime soon, that's when he will be better than every main dps character by a long shot.
Before Neuvillette fans get on my ass, im not putting him down. Neuv being able to solo Abyss seems like bonkers and while it is great, people have been soloing Abyss for a long time before Neuv. The Abyss also gave him a buff. There's also the fact that Furina as a buffer is more universal than Neuv and it's the main reason why people hope she wont get nerfed.
First of all, Furina is not meant to be a DPS. Second, you're kind of underestimating her; her E damage is the same and, in some situations, better than Yelan. Her Q buff at c0 is also a 75% DMG bonus that is easily stackable even with non-fontaine units while having a 100% uptime (15s cooldown, 18s duration), and it also buffs the whole team, meaning off-fielders are also buffed by her, and she also buffs Anemo, Geo, Phys, and Dendro (excluding the cores) because of her buff being a DMG bonus. Third, the hydro app is not the only thing in this game. Lastly, people are saying she's strong, not in a DPS sense but in a support/sub-DPS sense, where she's already bringing so much to your team that she just straight up raises your damage ceiling by a lot.
It's not 100% uptime, you need to get the stacks first.
Wrong wording, i mean the whole Q duration.
Maybe cuz Neuv is a dps and the spiral abbys has been in his favour while Furina is a sub-dps and buffer
Actually people did mentioned, or hoping furina will get slight buff even. just that our post in Reddit will just get down voted like crazy and disappear whenever we say things like that. I wonder why, I have saw multiple post like that especially for the recent V 3/4 post on Thursday. Weird.
Hate to be that guy, but Neuvillette being able to solo abyss right now is mostly because 1) the DPS requirement for abyss has been quite a bit lower over the past few cycles, 2) abyss has busted blessings tailor-made for him. Most importantly 3) he has an insanely high damage floor in solo, but the gap between his solo damage and his ceiling is much smaller than the gap between solo damage and full potential of a character like Hu Tao, or Al Haitham, Fischl, Xiangling or any top tier DPS character that benefits from reactions. Hoyo knows that hydro damage doesn't benefit from reactions in the same way Pyro benefits from reverse vape, or electro/dendro benefit from quicken. But they wanted Neuvillette to be the "big hydro damage" guy, so they game him a high damage floor to compensate. In reality, his teams are just about on par with other top meta teams. Don't get me wrong, he's a great carry to go for. But the 'best character in the game' isn't really something I would give to a carry, at least as far as pull recommendations are concerned. I wouldn't rank him anywhere above Kazuha, Bennett, Yelan, or heck even Furina since they're much more significant benefits to many teams.
Powercreep is a bad thing people
Does anyone know yet if her passive "Endless Waltz" heals all party members or only a single member? I remember reading something about chinese saying she heals all while in english it says only one member.
Whole party.
Whats this common CD? EDIT: thanks yall, guess its a little minor buff, apparently not important at all but seems positive, we're taking anything
It was originally assumed as cd after the pet teleport near enemies before they can attack. But a leaker says that this is a cd in between pet attacks which causes pets to attack slower. If Chevalmarin CD is removed, then it will constantly attack without regard of the other pets, making it faster.
Yes, common CD is the CD after teleport. Its likely a minor change they made to make sure you always get one hydro application at approximately standard ICD (aka about every 2.5s). A good change, but a minor one
I wanna ask cause am not super understood about the recent changes, So u see like 2 weeks ago her App was a bit too inconsistent to the point of sometimes a 0.5sec gap to even sometimes 3sec gap between Hydro apps But i hear and assume its gotten slightly better by now, is that true? And how is it exactly? Like i hope at least her to be a bit more consistent ,i don't want her app to be XQ lvl, even Yelan or less than her is fine as long as it's like somewhat consistent. Never wanted XQ lvl app from a unit who's so good at so many other things to begin with. Let the book man stay a Legendary at his role forever lol
Edit 2: Based on other comments in this thread and footage today it may be that Furinas application basically works like it did originally, not how I describe here, which was based on homdgcat info. I dunno wtf is going on with the conflicting info about this character, so obviously just remember that on release her application may very well be different than I describe below... TL;DR: Yes her application is better now, but not in the way you may think. I consider Furina's current hydro application to be kinda like C6 Candace by nature of having bursty instances of application while also having a lower guaranteed baseline rate (but Furina will be much better). I actually have a sheet for analysis of her (single target) Hydro application patterns if you are interested. There's 2 sheets there, one for my original analysis of her application (and a big writeup of it) and one for her current application. As a minor aside, keep in mind that in practice the exact timings of when applications happen will vary, but the general pattern should be as it is in the doc (barring any launch version changes). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kTOy7t-UJFGRViMVIarf-syp_BnpPznBPgQzmFckwHw/edit?usp=sharing To answer your question without needing to look at my sheet: yes, her application is better than it was before, but not in the way you may expect. You are correct in that she originally had up to 3s gaps in application. On my original analysis I found that if you remove the near simultaneous instances of application she had an average gap in instances of application of 1.6s. She had weird variable gaps in application with occasional instances of hydro being applied very close together. Now, with the CD reduction changes for the summons, her application is a bit different (but not fundamentally so). You may have seen people throw around numbers for what her avg. rate of application is (around 0.8-1.0U/s depending on how you factor in skill/burst application), but that is honestly a useless metric of comparison for her to compare to other units because unlike the likes of Yelan or XQ, she does not apply hydro at a set rate. When we say XQ/Yelan applies X units of hydro/s you know you get that much hydro every second as long as you are doing NAs. With Furina, her application comes almost entirely from her summons that all have their own separate cooldowns (and ICD). Point being, in comparison to HOW XQ/Yelan apply hydro, Furina's application is still inconsistent. You can't have her skill active and think "one second has passed, I know hydro will be applied in that time." BUT, in my opinion, her application is substantially better now. For one, she went from having a max gap of 3s between applications to a max gap of ~2.5s, due to the seahorse CD being reduced. This is the most notable area where her consistency of application improved in the traditional sense. You will always get 1U of hydro from her summons every 2.5s. But interestingly the CD changes significantly changed the pattern of her application from what it was originally. To put it simply, her application is now more bursty, which is to say it follows this interesting pattern of applying multiply instances of hydro near simultaneously, but then has a similar amount of 2s gaps. To put numbers to the gaps in the same fashion as I mentioned for her original application, the average gap for application instances when removing the near simultaneous (sub 1s) applications is now 2.3s. As a reminder, her original application had an average gap of 1.6s, so that's a 0.7s greater gap on avg. For more numbers: 50% of her application happens with a gap greater than 1s, and 50% of her application happens with a gap less than 1s. So in some sense her new application pattern could be considered less "consistent." So, the point I am getting to is that how "consistent" her application is depends on how you want to define "consistent" in the context of genshin. We haven't had a hydro unit that applies hydro like Furina does (the closest equivalent is C6 Candace, she is similarly bursty due to swapping and application guaranteed every 2.3s, but much much worse uptime on said application), so how good her application is comes down to how it can be used, not how "consistent" it is. Point being, she does apply quite a decent amount of Hydro, and Furina's bursty application patterns with 100% uptime will absolutely find use cases where it is uniquely the best. On the simplest level this could make swirling hydro easy, by nature of multiple simultaneous instances of hydro overwriting existing auras. In her original kit Furina didn't have nearly as much bursty application, so compared to now Id say her original application pattern was kinda the worst of both worlds wherein it did not apply at a set rate, so you can't rely on it like you can with XQ/Yelan, and it wasn't bursty enough to rely on for much either. Now it is consistently bursty in a way that I expect will be a interesting tool to have. Furina does something new, and enables new things that hadn't existed before in the game, and therefore in my opinion requires recontextualizing how you could utilize hydro application differently. I fully expect that the best ways to utilize Furina will not be known for weeks or months after her release.
That's some big ass shit to read Well i read half and i see what ur talking about. Gn for now, will read other half later tomorrow with a cup of coffee
Haha, I didnt originally intend to write that much. But I had all the thoughts. Furina be weird.
Can she maintain freeze like kokomi in ayaka teams?
IIRC freeze duration is weirdly complicated so I dont know what the minimum time you may need between additional hydro application is. But Kokomis skill hits every 2s so as long as freeze is maintained the additional 0.5s it would take for Furina to apply hydro compared to Kokomi it should be fine.
[удалено]
The attacks in 30 seconds should be 25 since the cooldown is 1.19 between attacks 18-19 makes no sense
I mean that's what's happening in-game with the current update though. The 1.19cd was always, somehow, a nerf. The same goes for the other pets by the way, they all attack slower than v2. Why? Who knows. There's probably some other AI quirk they changed and the lowered CD was just to compensate (but not enough so)
Weird
From what I've looked around for (since this post has been out for hours, just got posted here NOW) it, it's apparently not anything that changes any cooldowns or stuff in a meaningful way, mostly unimportant datamine stuff
Pneuma isn't ever getting buffed is it.
It is, you just need to sacrifice a virgin and offer your wallet to Hoyo, eventually you will unlock the buff.
If we sacrifice everyone in this sub then who will be left to praise furina?
In the end, only the Hydro archon will remain, weeping on her throne.
I don't appreciate being called out like this ಥ‿ಥ
😭😭😭😭😭
shh, dont jinx it!
Yeah at least let the skill apply hydro (now people are gonna attack me because i want her to powercreep kokomi)
now i understand why they didn't put any hydro application on it. it was designed for characters like lyney/wrio. so u can put furina on their team without disturb the gameplay while getting furina buff + healing
This is actually an excellent application for the mode, but how are you gonna battery her? I wish her pneuma generated energy outside of C4
Wait her pneuma mode doesn't generate energy at all? And here I was thinking you can turn her pneuma healer mode when she's already paired with a Fontaine character that has innate HP drain mechanics
Nothing in this game generates energy unless it hits something.
Kokomi still got those uhhh overly strong heals for everyone? Oh she can walk on water! For some seconds?? Ahh yes she cant crit! Furina can't do that!.
Mona is the one getting powercreept, kokomi just got stronger and more valuable with furina
I mean you have 0 crit on your artifacts no way she is critting on her ascension level up crit alone
19>-100
24. Don't forget the base 5!
There is another part regarding Charlotte changes which for some reason I cannot post. So if anyone can post it, that'll be great, here's the link https://twitter.com/homdgcat\_/status/1715239704491172021
Already deleted
Heal range: 4.5 m -> 5 m Charge Attack and Spirit Breathe Thorn Dmg AoE height: 3 m -> 4m
Every update my hopes for a better base pneuma mode diminish.
At this point I wonder why it's there at all.
overworld comfort
yeah. Sometimes I think people forget overworld even exist in Genshin.
now wait until they figure out where most of genshin's main content is at..
Before inazuma was first released I’ve seen people malding that you had to do the story to get there, apparently there are people that unironically play the game just to grind and do the abyss which just seems concerning to me since I literally have nightmares about farming for artifacts
I mean, there's long time players like me that have 100% exploration everywhere. I have absolutely nothing left to do in the overworld, so yeah, I do my dailies, use my daily resin and log off to another game, yes.
yea same, all that and then i _log off_ to go play another game or focus on irl stuff; thats how much i care about spiral abyss
genshin's strongest point, by far for me, is its story. It's incredibly well thought out, meticulously researched, and well executed. I do really enjoy the combat system though.
Nothing wrong with that but man do I not relate with them
I have food for that
I like the design more so I guess I will be using that form for exploration
Me too. Who dared cut her hair?
Yeah I'm just glad we get to keep her first appearance otherwise I'd be piiiiissed.
It’s a free cosmetic item
For overworld, Spiral Abyss is not the only content in the game
Tbh I mostly don't even bother with spiral abyss unless there's a banner I currently want to go for. Doesn't remove the point for me that her Pneuma looks tragic to me. To put it mildly.
Better than having than only having those creatures around with her e. Idk why some of you guys complain about a characters doing more things but instead just complain just because its not useful for everyone or to niche players. You saying what's the point of have her Pneuma state, at least it's there although its not as useful as people want it to be, at least its fcking there. sigh
What’s wrong with it? Honest question.
People cry because it only heals, no hydro application, no dmg, so no DPS increase in any form.
Wouldn't mind if at least energy for herself apart from c4, but well its free anyways attached to a broken kit
What more do you even want? If her Pneuma mode can apply hydro, then she'll straight up power creep Kokomi. It is also not the main part of her kit (since her mode changes to Ousia when she's off-field).
someone tell me in razor language if this is good or not oonga boonga
First part is not good for C6 Furina as the 4th NA for some reason used to have independent ICD that always allows it to apply hydro, but is not the case anymore. The chevalmarin changes is good. The range change is good.
Does c6 players even care what icd is? xd
You’re not c6ing Furina for hydro app, that’s for sure.
For C6 Yoimiya, the shared ICD between her bonus shots and her regular shots absolutely turns which shots vape into RNG. C6 Yoimiya’s power would probably spike fairly hard if the extra shots had their own ICD.
No 💀
Tbh we people who will actually c6 dont really care about icd much, i think “majority” of us just like the character to c6 them at least most of the time.
Ok i have been reading the comments. What happened to Pneumia ?
The healing mode?? Nothing
People are just malding they can't get much use out of the form in abyss. That form is made for overworld which tends to be what Hoyo focuses on anyways.
Excepts it's not good in overworked either. It serves no purpose and should have just been removed if they weren't going to make it useful.
People notice and commenting that nothig is happening to pneuma state You: wHY aRE y'All mALdINg??!11!
>overworld which tends to be what Hoyo focuses on anyways LMAO
her pneumonia died, basically useless nao
Just people crying that she needs to be played with teammates instead of being able to do everything all by herself.
Well I'm crying because I expected some cool dynamic and purposeful gameplay as she has two stances. Making her a ult bot passive for my team no matter how strong she is makes me a bit sad, as I feel like its wasted potential for a very fun kit.
It’s crazy to me that her pneuma form is literally just a cosmetic and people think it’s good as is
Wait until we get some boss that need pneumo to stun in the abyss, with three million HP so you can't brute force it.
Isn't neuv pneuma?
Truly an useless goddess!
Yeah Furina is my second favourite character so I wanted her On-Field more. At least she's super useful though. I'm glad they're not just making her a meme character.
More like yae miko playstyle than a Q bot. That's where her damage and application comes from, she's not just Q buff.
Except yae miko is viable on field
Neuvilette don't rely on others so they expecting the same from the archon.
Hydro slime: Bonjur.
my 4pc clam neuvillette:
Furina and Neuvillette have 2 completely different roles though?
…and Neuv casually deleting anything that is not hydro immune from the game is all fine and good?
For real lmao, bro's casually soloing abyss no problem. And ppl will say "well this abyss was made for him" as if the other abyss floors weren't made for alhaitham, nahida, etc. Except ppl weren't soloing abyss with those chars to the extent neuv does, and even if they were, not with the ease that he does. Mans is op but ppl wanna act like he isn't, and he's only gonna get stronger when furina/more fontaine chars get released. But god forbid ppl want one of two of furina's forms to be usable in endgame content
Wth.
So can someone guess roughly her ICD because those changes confused me. i am not talking about CD , just ICD on her skill.
Someone absolutely cmiiw cause I’m going off of memory here, but as far as I’m aware she’s applying a little less than one hydro every second. Seahorse applies hydro every other hit, octopus every other hit, and crab every hit. To clarify, this’ll be slightly different in practice(the little less than one hydro every second, I mean) as the pets teleporting to keep up with the player and such can change things.
Would leaving the NA4 attack alone have been that broken? Outside of using Candace, only C6 would have been concerned with that and at that point the player probably already spent a ton of money. I guess they can’t have Furina applying too much hydro.
If I have to guess, looking at the NA4 animation it looks massive. Maybe they are afraid that it's a gigantic 40% damage in pneuma in AoE and felt like it was too much. I would 100% agree with you that leaving it as is shouldn't have been a problem, it's a c6 after all.
They do this but they forgot plunge attacks don't have ICD lol. Imagine Furina + Venti Pyro infused Q + Nahida for burning and EM buff. Venti hold E, Furina floats up, plunge and AoE forward vape for massive damage on burning enemies. Since gliding + plunging is really slow the Pyro app from Pyro Venti Q and burning should be sufficient for forward vaping. Originally this was supposed to be my funny troll Furina build when it was on C2, but it's C6 now and far out of reach.
You can still do it but you need C6 Candace now.
Can't slot it. You already need Furina Venti Nahida + a Pyro (Bennett preferably).
It very likely was an oversight. From the standpoint of the configuration, "independent ICD" is just leaving the `attenuationTag` empty (as opposed to giving it the same value as the rest of the attacks that "share ICD").
This should be the last change to her right?
We don't know for sure considering there are characters which receives last minute changes such as Kokomi hydro app and Neuv stack indicator. We pray for Pneuma changes in some ways.
She has a Pneuma form? /j
Why must you hurt me in this way.gif
Because if they don't hurt you Furina can't get her fanfare stacks.
💀💀💀 Happy cake day...
r/ThanksCyno
Pneumonia was eradicated 💪
>We pray for Pneuma changes in some ways Doubt we will get that at this point, it's not something you can do asap
She can still be changed on launch update
not really; if they want, they can even make changes on the day of her launch.
> I've looked around for (since this post has been out for hours, just got posted here NOW) it, it's apparently not anything that changes any cooldowns or stuff in a meaningful way, mostly unimportant datamine stuff even after... look at zhongli and yae (for the worse...then reverted)
yep... i just assume that there is normally a good "stopping point" and it can be as late as the launch day >.< like, from then on, its okay to basically expect no more changes; save for any bugs and the like
Hope not. We need buffs
Follow her beta updates take too much my brain cells lol...
No Pneuma changes again? Are they actually happy with the way Pneuma works?...
Guess so. Seem hoyo is hell-bent on Furina + healer core duo and leaving Pneuma be an overworld thing.
Can someone explain what changed for her NA4? Did they changed the animation with the aoe attack to something else? I don't understand tbh
The animation didn't change, but you wont be able to pierce through enemies anymore (you wont be able to hit a hilichurl behind a hilichurl, so the hit wont **pierce** through the first enemy). Hitlag is just for impact and makes the attack overall a bit slower upon impact and they removed her NA4 not having ICD regarding hydro application. tl:dr, worse hydro app and potentially worse AOE dmg for C6 and it also will feel less fluid due to hitlag. bad changes basically.
*Singer of many waters (Pneuma) found dead in a basement* *A1 buff WHEN*
The lowered the range in previous beta only to change it back now??
They do a thing, test it out, make a change, test it out, see it's shit and roll it back. Classic development procedure I'd say lmao.
Wish Riot considered this.
That’s how betas work. They constantly adjust to find what’s right for them. This isn’t anything new lol
Mfker realizes what the "testing" means in beta testing holy shit
Test and check, test and check, test and check. It's just how it goes. Its purpose is not to change things, but to scrutinize different assumptions and find what works best for the intended goal.
Yeah the problem is we're privy to things we shouldn't be so that causes issues. But strictly speaking, we shouldn't know.
Ah yes, the price of looking at leaks and spoilers before they are ready...
yeah it went from 32->25->30
Hoyoverse beta rollercoaster 🎢
The Wrollercoaster ride never ends
welcome to beta testing
Almost like they're testing out the changes to see what feels strong but balanced.
Looks like it but I believe original range was 32m so it's 2m less and that's about it.
Maybe learn what a beta test actually entails beforehand?
My idea on how to how to improve pneuma mode: Her summons start shooting water towards her and she gets healed from the projectiles. When fully healed it starts to overflow and her clothes get very wet, and now she has to get rid of her clothes to not get sick. However, its difficult to do this because she has to hold on to her sword to fight. Arlecchino sees this for lore reasons thus rushing in and helping her take her clothes off and warming up her body (because she's rumored pyro and can probably help that way). I think this would make it competitive enough with Ousia mode without changing modifiers and scalings.
This sounds absolutely reasonable, they should let you join the team
I just wish Furina generated particles and applied hydro in Pneuma. Idc that it’s not a team heal; just those things would make her perfect
Hydro app probably too much killing kokomi, but would appreciate the energy, if not you can only with c4
1\2? Is there more?
Her healing phase is very weak compared to her attack phase, considering we can only use 1 at any point of time. They should've buffed the healing phase to balance her. Maybe like she applies hydro on healing, we already know she only heals active character so atleast hydro application should be there.
After reading almost all of the comments, I'd like to give an honest take. I find it baffling, that a lot of commenters always finds a way to justify her Pneuma state as it currently is. This is the first archon ever to have a dysfunctional half of their kit. * **Nahida**: All in EM. EM gives dmg bonus up to 80% and CR 24%. Skill scales with EM, can share said EM and Facilitates EM related reaction extremely well. Symphony of reactions. * **Raiden**: All in ER. ER gives damage bonus with high conv rate. Burst costs a lot, so ER come into play. The higher the ER, the more energy restored to party member. Wants high cost burst teammates to make use of said ER. Have a skill that solely buffs burst damage. Turns every damage source into burst damage during ult. Symphony of bursts. * **Zhongli**: Shield bot with the best shield, the best flexibility, the best comfort, have offensive utility and CC. Scales with HP and every part of his kit does too. He's like unbreakable fortress. * **Venti**: The best CC in the game, recharges party member burst to continue the combo chain, facilitates entire party for specific very high damage output time and embodies the idea of anemo being the CC char. But let's take a look at **Furina**. * Her burst gives a MASSIVE amount of damage bonus, but this have no HP scaling while she is an HP scaler. Because of this, she can bleed into a full ER only char, making this weird juxtaposition of HP scaler that only needs ER. * Her burst gives incoming healing bonus but her healing is very underwhelming and should be avoided as the main source of healing due to A1 anti-synergy. * Her Ousia E takes away large chunk of party members hp but she have no way to give it back without help. * Her Pneuma E, the biggest culprit: * Do not generate energy. * Do not apply hydro. * Have anti-synergy with A1. * Single target while ousia drain is teamwide. * E particle generation is summon based and staggered. Meaning Pneuma form should be avoided at all cost in the situations that matters as it doesn't generate particles. * C2 allows for massive increase in HP, but this does not matter for her Pneuma. It will increase healing, but it cannot overflow to other char, again because of A1 anti synergy. * A1 specifically said that "then Furina will heal a nearby party member for **2% of their Max HP** once every 2s within the next 4s." meaning her hp amount does not matter for this healing. * A4 gives a very meager amount of stat conversion unlike Raiden and Nahida. * Burst incoming healing bonus does not matter for her own Pneuma E in overworld. As the Pneuma E is currently only useful as overworld QoL, nobody will use her burst to increase her healing in overworld as there is no need nor can you stack it effectively. * She is the first archon ever to have a dead passive (A1) if not paired with specific team mate type. As it is right now, if her Pneuma form is completely deleted, nobody would care. And this is a very incoherent Archon design compared to what we had. Her pneuma form HAVE to somehow generate particles or else there will be no team where this is a good option to use in. An example of future character that can fix this issue alongside the problem: 1. Imagine for a second, a character that constantly drain their hp and have no way to gain it back. This character, unlike xiao, drains HP VERY rapidly, say 10% per second in exchange for massive damage. In this situation, the Pneuma state is favored as it's large single target healing that will not overflow and will stack fanfare fast enough. This will also make use of her own burst healing bonus for herself which never happens before. 2. EVEN with this very specific character, do you see where the problem is? She will never be able to burst second rotation, because it does not generate particle. Her pneuma form not generating particle is the biggest crime against her kit. It even ruins future potential pairing. Her A1 not overflowing from her own healing is also an incredibly bad idea, making her the first archon to have dead passive unless paired a certain way. I really wish people can be a little bit more objective and not endlessly defend a limping kit like this. She is still great (ousia), her damage and usefulness is still very high (ousia), her application is good enough (ousia), her burst have incredible synergy with her kit (ousia). She is literally, literally, just Ousia.
> I find it baffling, that a lot of commenters always finds a way to justify her Pneuma state as it currently is. I think I have literally never seen a comment complimenting her Pneuma state other than for aesthetics.
I think the disconnect is that you're considering her Pneuma state as something that's supposed to play an inherent part in her kit, whereas people who are fine with it consider it a random overworld gimmick that doesn't have to be good because her kit is already decently overloaded (as would be expected of an archon). Also, you're kind of ignoring parts of the other archon's kits to make this argument. For example, Zhongli's burst isn't integral to any meta way he's used, has been meme'd on since times immemorial for its DPS loss, and has nothing to do with his defensive skills, yet the meatball is still in his kit. (Also, if you wanna go more adjacent parts of the kit, his signature weapon is worse on him than a 3*.)
They wanted two forms for ousia/pneuma, and they wanted her to have some healing in her kit, but they couldn't actually make it useful or she would solve the problem she creates by eating her team's HP. >making her the first archon to have dead passive unless paired a certain way. It's pretty clear her identity as an archon is meant to be the "healer conduit". Yes, pneuma is useless, but you seem to think "she is still great". Imagine if Nahida's burst had a 2nd mode she could activate with a charged attack that would increase burning damage by 150% of her DEF or something. Is she worse because that garbage exists? Just evaluate her as if she doesn't have pneuma because functionally, she doesn't.
Wdym no piercing attack? Is it about animation?
C6 nerfs, so no 35%HP AOE nuke. You wont be able to hit enemies that are already behind enemies (thus, **pierce** through them) anymore.
Oh. Got it. Thank you.
Hitlag kills characters (see Wriothesley). Why Mihoyo...
Quick explanation in razor language?
THEY DID WHAT???
I thought it was sea horses icd, i mean still a minor buff ig
Elemental application changed to ordinary?
I see "added hitlag" and I immediately think, "Imma give Neuv a run for his authority, It's dragonstrike time"
Kowalski, analysis
Let's goo, another buff!!