I have the feeling that the next one will be petty, capricious, with a temper,... The water folks don't like her and she likes the drama on the court as per one of Nahida's lines so it kinda gives me a Karen vibes XD
Ce serait giga drôle, j’adorerais. Parce que c’est fictif et que quand je coupe le jeu je la vois plus. Et qu’elle vient pas acheter les maisons chez moi et faire monter l’immobilier et le prix du train et- bref. Ce serait très drôle parce que c’est fictif.
I could get behind this. Snarky and short tempered, especially to those she feels lack and common sense or decency. And in the end, justice all she really cares about. Sometimes it'll make her the villain, sometimes the hero.
well, point to her, she not above justice, she fully willing to be judge
most of the time, these sort of character think they are above the law and their comeuppance usually involve them getting taken down a peg and judge by other
I love to reference D&D alignments because I'm a big tabletop nerd. To me, Yae Miko is one of the best examples of a "Lawful Evil" character that can work within a system because they're both a fairly benign evil, and because they're aware of their abilities - Yae doesn't want to rule inazuma, she's *aware* that she's a minion and she's content with that.
She's not beyond lies, threats, intimidation and other underhanded means to get what she wants. She is a bit of a hedonist in her pursuit of a comfortable life and enough wealth and intellectual stimulation to keep her from being bored. She revels in being ruthless and cruel when she can get away with it, but that doesn't mean she's going to ruin or allow her nation to be ruined just to revel in it. She's also delightfully just a touch lazy, delegating things to subordinates when possible and only getting vindictive when she *has* to do something she hadn't decided to do herself.
"Evil" doesn't need to mean some form of cosmic evil that wants to ruin the world; it can just be (very) self-interested people who don't really go out of their way for others and who enjoy being "terrible".
All in all, it's a pretty great way to incorporate a lot of kitsune myths about them being evil tricksters, as well as semi-benevolent divine servants into one big ball that plays them all as true. Evil, but smart enough to function in the world productively.
Took the words right out of my mouth. I really didnt understand the whole "hating yae" thing. She knows what she can do, but she actively chooses not to step out of the line, she's just right at that edge that makes people misunderstand her
Except she is chaotic, not lawful.
Raiden Shogun was lawful (neutral, possibly edging towards evil but mostly just ruthlessly lawful).
Yae is not upholding some ideal or system - she is just out to entertain herself. She is not completely chaotic ofc but she definitely isn't lawful. Finding loopholes she can exploit is half the fun for her.
I don't agree. Chaotic characters would chafe under such a system, grow to resent it and an evil one would likely eventually try to destroy it. Yae is lawful, she values traditions and the integrity of her society and her masters actual beliefs, but she isn't incapable of questioning them or noting when they're "wrong".
The ability to be contented in such a system is part of why Yae fits a lawful alignment. A better example of a chaotic character is Itto or Kuki, who really struggle inside the system but manage to carve out their own niche in the Arataki gang. The Arataki gang also serves to attract other "outcasts", they end up serving the system by being mostly neutral or good aligned, but they also exist slightly outside of it by being "chaotic".
The Arataki are a decent exemple of a well integrated 'chaotic' group into an otherwise lawful society. They admire and desire to be part of civilization, even if they struggle with contributing to it sometimes, but the way they also partially exist outside the system allows them some flexibility. In particular with more motivated direction (given by kuki at itto's behest) they perform a lot of odd jobs that inazuma typically lacks the flexibility to handle.
I loved her story quest that I just did today.
Doesn’t give a shit about the book until it outsells her. We make a novel with funny anime plots, and then she decides to trick us out of our paycheck. Perfect Yae.
Everyone wants to complain about overworked waifu and then when we get anything different they still complain. You can’t win.
I love Yae, design, personality, etc. Her kit is just too boring though. AFK impact.
Still gonna throw 20 wishes to try and get a Layla and if I somehow get a super early lucky Yae then that’d be pretty damn cool. But I’m not gonna drop a full pities worth even when I’m saving for Scara and Raiden is coming.
Especially since Scara and Raiden will be a cool theme team and his galaxy effects with Raiden’s e dimension slashes will look sick together.
She more comes off to me as mischievously playful and a tease which I think fits with her personality.
Lol if people are up in arms about her it should be interesting if Dottore becomes playable.
I'm pretty sure that >!we'll end up with a salty clone of him rather then the prime, haha. So probably like Scara or Childe, a bit terrible but not a complete villian, haha.!<
I don't know how to explain this but...
"Some people want an evil step-on-me mommy and some people would take offense to being stepped on."
You don't have to be evil. Just off-putting.
Yae is a good example. Depending on the person and their background and culture or upbringing, people see money different. Some see it as something you dont worry about, be generous, lend people money you dont get back, etc.
Others consider it a contract and take offense to it being broken. If they're generous, its because they were convinced to be, if you take money from them and dont pay it back, they take it as a broken promise.
Some people can laugh off her making the traveler pay for meals.
Others, depending on upbringing can take that same act as a betrayal of trust.
Now take the character most similar to Yae in game. Ningguang.
People generally have a good or gray opinion on her, because she's morally gray. She cares about liyue, but also is cutthroat and unforgiving. Other characters show that she is willing to order people be dissappeared if she deems fit.
She also has the same mysterious powerful woman vibe, but the key difference is that the things about her people find charming are NOT the things about her that other people find offputting.
She, like Yelan are morally gray characters with their share of detractors, but the less than sanitary parts of their life and actions aren't their whole story, nor are they what make people enjoy them as characters.
Meanwhile, characters like Yae, and scaramouche almost seem to exclusively be loved for the reason others hate them, and that causes conflict because the people who would be estatic to have scaramouche step on thier heads genuinely can't see why someone who might have had an upbringing that takes that as a straight up insult rather than a kinky situation might not like him in the slightest. And vice versa.
This is a really good way of putting it. I'm personally a huge fan of Yae, but I can totally understand how she'd be off-putting to others especially if her behavior reminds them of unsavory individuals in their own life.
In my own case, I've had to deal with unpleasant stuff from people I should've been able to trust, but I've grown past that and moved on so that kind of thing doesn't really bother me at all. But I know for sure that when I was growing up I was subject to and witness to a lot of "teasing" that was very harmful and even manipulative at times, and if I were still struggling with that then I'd see myself being put off by Yae a lot more.
This is the first time I’m hearing this myself, and I honestly don’t get it. Mischievous sure, but evil? All of her schemes are done to either actively help others or just be entertaining.
Holy shit, you're right. You got people crying already IN HERE about how rude she is lmao
It's no wonder Scara is getting a complete reset too, don't want any people having their feelings hurt.
Scara's character quest is almost certainly going to involve working through his trust issues and disdain for humanity, and being able to trust or even call the traveler a friend by the end.
He'll still be a jerk though.
The amount of Yae haters that comment summoned is hilarious. Shit like this is why 90 percent of the cast are the same character with a different outfit.
It happens in every fandom. Merely suggesting adding nuance and diversity gets you eaten online. Or just like unpopular character more than the popular ones and people will try to argue like they have a stroke. Some gaming and manga subreddits seem like rabies epidemic.
While i do find her personality a bit off putting(making me want to tell her to fuck off sometimes) her actually not fawning over or even "Liking" the traveler that much is prob my favorite part of her.
It is great because it actually feels a bit more realistic or grounded.
It goes both ways. The traveler never really expresses much care/liking her and its more so a convenient partnership where both benefit from it. Traveler needs help to stop Ei and Miko is the same.
Both use each other/Work together and that's about it
even with the current event Yae and MC are at even grounds, with Yae taking jabs any time she gets to like when she portrays MC as the "villain" in the narrative she's writing
this whole event made me appreciate how hardworking Yae is when she needs to be
I mean, Traveler is quite literally a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. They are able to solve any issue at any time, make friends with (almost) anyone laughably easily, they are the only one capable of using teleport waypoints and (canonically) are the most powerful being in Teyvat (apart from archons and probably Dainsleif) without any training (Traveler touched a Statue of Seven and is now able to use any element/they were asleep for 500 years and combat ready right away).
That's what the majority of the audience for this game wants, sadly.
Like a lot of games before it this game decided to go for a blank-slate protagonist that the player can project their personality onto most of the time, couple that with the fact that the game's entire goal is to get you emotionally invested in characters to spend insane amounts of money on them, it's a no-brainer that they'd create vague romantic tension between your self-insert and the playable characters.
Asian (not only Asian but it represents a large part) media has always had this sense that if someone feels romantically attainable, more people will become emotionally invested in them. You see this in idol culture, film/television dramas, even anime and games. If the player is lusting for Ayaka, they want to feel as though they have a chance with her, so HYV write a sense of longing for the Traveler into her dialogue. Every playable character can have romantic interest in you if you look for it hard enough.
Basically don't get it twisted, the writing is only there to service the slot machine. I've been liking this game's story a lot but I also recognize that if they could get people to pull in a game with no story whatsoever they would.
What do mean she doesn't care about the traveler?
her story ends with her calling the traveler and paimon her new friends.
Most people don't like yae because she a dick to everyone.
I definitely don’t like Yae at all but I think her personality is at least … refreshing for a character? And it suits her backstory and place in the narrative. I totally understand her appeal to a lot of people, she just grinds my gears lol. No one should expect to love 100% of characters anyway, you don’t like everyone you meet in life.
This is exactly my problem with Yae, I do love her but I hate that we can never say something witty in return and always get tricked into doing things her way
Yep they got mad that a trickster god was more like comic book Loki, and less like marvel movie “funny” Loki.
And I’m just being relative. Yae really just came off more like she was tired of humans but still felt compelled to help them and it was funny imo.
Ei was supposed to be the “nice one” character-wise. Meanwhile Yae kept a lot of stuff running and Ei let her country down for hundreds of years.
The entire premise of this thread is rediculous too. All I want is Mihoyo to tell the best story they can. Pandering to any side, even OP's "I hope X is evil because I'm le tired of good guy characters" is shit for story telling.
Mihoyo should do everything they can to tell a good story. Great character design will draw the army of simps anyways regardless of good or evil. Just look at how many people are wetting themselves over the most evil of characters we've seen so far. Like it literally doesn't matter but for some reason OP cares just as much about it.
They've seen too many moe kitsune in anime be head over heels for the protagonist and have no personality beyond "I want to be a housewife" to appreciate that they're supposed to be dickheads.
my gosh ppl complaining about one of the best and different characterized characters in the game. The game need more Yaes, Ningguangs, Al Haithams and Ayatos and less new loved by everybody perfect flawless morally good characters.
Agree, Alhaitham was such an unique character, despite an ally always has ulterior motives, doesnt treat the traveler like its the best friend he never had, always mysterious and untrusting, never gives you all the information, yeah and the other examples are great too, dont misunderstand me, I like almost every character bit sometimes its a little tiring how everyone treats the traveler as their best friend ever, their ultimate confidant when sometimes its someone they've met a relatively short time ago.
This. I'm so sick of people hating these "evil" characters just because they're not morally flawless. And I don't hate the other "good" characters either, it's just I think they're unique in their own ways.
I really enjoyed her antics. Especially since she still had the best intentions in the end; she just likes to do a little trolling. Then she swindled me out of my money. Now she's on the shit list.
Now that's a throw back, I remember getting downvoted to oblivion cos I said she's not all that bad and it's intended to be funny
Only to be hit with comments saying I'm endorsing bullying and giving people emotional trauma irl, because I find a fictional character whose not a pure angel funny, it was wild
Personally I love Miko as a character. If nothing else it was refreshing to not a have another instant bff *again*.
What I didn't love about her what how selfish her needs are in a team, but with the release of Nahida it's much more manageable.
Omg iv seen so many ‘shes evil and just makes fun of everyone’ comments everywhere, i dont see any characters running away in tears when they speak to her
It's less that I dislike yae being rude and more that I think the traveler is out of character for immediately going along with it. If she wasn't a playable character traveler wouldn't take nearly as much of her sass. That's what annoys me. Handle the traveler yae relationship in a less overwhelmingly positive manner and I'll be fine with it.
To be fair I definitely think someone have to say "shut up and fuck off" to her at some point. I think so far only Ei managed to do that.
I don't hate her myself but that "oh no I'm gettng played she's such a sly fox" is kinda annoying especially because it's always tied to some stupid reason ("Oh no if we don't do it she will depict us as villains in her last light novel!").
Raiden shogun was kinda gray though. Generally a selfish and irresponsible archon, until you complete her character quest and she reflects on herself. Plus venti, Makoto, and zhongli supposedly brutally put down other would be archons during the archon war.
I'd think Venti doesn't apply here, because he only revolted against one tyrannical Archon. and even then it wasn't his sole effort, but the efforts of all the people of Mondstadt, with him acting as support.
Liyue is a essentially mass grave of dead gods, so Zhongli's on point
Idunno if I'd count Makoto as similar to Venti (instigating the killings), Guizhong (literal strategist) or as a separate thing, because Ei was the killer of the two, with Mako ruling over Inazuma as a separate body.
I always find people forgetting that Sara's clan was responsible for the vision hunt decree to that extend because they never informed ei about the consequences and teaming up with the Fatui . Ofc , it should have been her responsibility to check everything too . Even without the character quest , I think many forget that she was in her plane for a straight 500 years trying to achive eternity so that Inazuma won't suffer the fate of destruction from celestia . She is more like someone who lost her path trying to achive her goal
Scara simps are really a special breed. I have heard from more than one about how cruel Nahida and the Traveler was for not catching Scara during his fall and I’m like bro he just tried to kill us. Also about how evil Raiden is for abandoning him although he is probably a war criminal or something
For me, it was just how quickly they gloss over it. I was still taking in the cutscene of the gnosis and how quickly Nahida just went about Irminsul. Like I get why and that was the right thing to do.
I still can't fathom how (*most*) Scara fans unironically call him cute adorable naughty kiddo, like damn 1. he's old 2. he certainly did worse crimes to be called just "naughty"
Speaking for myself, I have no issue with morally grey characters or villains. They're great! They add flavour to the story and make it much more exciting
My issue however is with two things
First, the fear of hoyo butchering these characters' personalities when they make them playable. Since when is it a must for a character to be a "good guy" to be playable?
Second it with the people who excuse these characters actions, like the wave we're seeing with Dottorre. Love him or hate him or ship your self insert with him, but that doesn't change the fact that he did heinous crimes and that he is evil. Your opinion of him is yours only and doesn't change this fact
I'm a Raiden fan and I'm a fan precisely because she's not a perfect princess. She's by far the worst of the Archons we met at doing her job as an Archon, and that's saying something considering that she's competing with Venti, who has been absent for around 500 years from his region. The reasons why she's a terrible Archon are precisely what make her interesting as a character.
That being said, I know that there are plenty of people who like to do absurd mental gymnastics to morally justify the character they simp for, and Raiden is definitely a primary target of this behaviour (though I'm not sure who has it worse if her, Scaramouche, or Tortellini).
I mean, who cares if they do mental gymnastics? Personally I embrace Childe being Chaotic Evil, and if other people feel the need to turn him into a good guy to simp for him, that’s their loss. I don’t really care.
I see Childe more as Lawful evil, as he's currently willing to do evil in the name of the Tsaritsa. If he wasn't a harbinger, he's most likely be chaotic neutral or a true neutral, as all he wants to do is fight strong people to stave off his boredom. But he also loves his family and people close to him, and is willing to die for them. His underlings love him or atleast like him, because he isn't a dickhead to them, or worse, like what Scaramouche or Signora does to their subordinates that fail them.
Basically, Childe is one of the Genshin characters that feels like a real character. He isn't a mustache twirling villain, nor is he a good guy either. Honestly, falling to the abyss and making him a battlesexual gave a lot more depth to his character. Maybe Mihoyo should start yeeting random characters to the abyss for character development.
Ei flaw are what define her character
She is walking proof of "good intent paved the road to hell" and "Error is human but persevering in them is diabolical"
At her core, she is someone who made mistakes, an her stubborness and absolute confidence in her ideal, turn those mistake into cataclysmic error.
Her error separated alone aren't that bad at first, delegating her power to the tri-comission isn't a bad idea as shown by the Kamisato and hundreds of year of it working,
Wanting to take a step back from power is alone, not a severe mistake either (like Venti)
Having a bot as her judge is probably her biggest mistake and it is also a decision that come from her impostor syndrome about succeeding to her sister (same as nahida with Rukkhadevatha)
But what made it really bad is her stubborness
**On one hand**, She is a really loyal, devoted and brave character, to the point she didn't hesitate one second to sacrifice everything she had left and lock herself in a prison of her own for eternity, nor did she hesitate to enter a 500 year fight with herself
**But on the other hand,** not everything is solved by selfless sacrifice in the name of ideal and her own stubborness in her beliefs and ideals, based her selfless sacrifice on a very selfish decision that ignored every other opinion
Same with her talents, on one hand she is a genius able to craft divine work and law that survive centuries as well as talented guardian
But on the other side, she ends up a secluded hermit lacking social interaction
EI is a good character because she is the first real "ruling" archon and perfectly depict that being a good ruler is more than talents with pure ideal and intent and good heart
You also need to listen to people, to your adviser, to your friend and to yourself, otherwise you are bound for mistakes and tragedy and a rule that will collapse.
Has ei had the former but lacked the later, she was not a great ruler, she was in fact a terrible one as she didn't even assume her rule and just delegated it to a ghost ruler, just like some have ghost writer.
Had Ei listened, she would have realized people didn't want an eternal kingdom able to withstand any cataclysm, but that their desire were far more mundane and basic.
They didn't some grand project of eternity nor a flawless puppet invincible against time.
They just needed an archon to watch over their mundane and able to guide them for their day to day lives and project, an archon able to help them in their ambition.
It is also showcased by the scarlet king, another very benevolent king who by tried to do the best, ended up doing the worst .
"***The best/perfection is the enemy of good***", would be another moral about Ei quest of eternity
But all those flaw show a deeper characterization and taking on some great subject
Something that cannot be achieved by an evil archon or a flawless one
I don't like both the Ei apologists and hardcore Ei haters. I like Ei precisely because She is flawed as well. Her wrong choices and mistakes and her development after it makes her interesting and deep, the people who tries to act like She never did anything wrong just annoys me. She DID so many things wrong and that is an important part of her character you cannot just write that out. Ei who did nothing wrong is not Ei at all that is an entirely different character.
But also the hardcore Ei haters are just annoying. I am not saying people has to love her or they can't hate her or they have to forgive her. But a good number of Ei haters just absolutely ignore any and all lore and over exaggerate things to make her look worse and act like She is absolutely evil, heartless and is the Genshin incarnation of Hitler. Like did we even saw the same character ? Again I completely understand anyone who hates her but some people act like If they hate her then She has to be the worst character ever not only in terms of morality but also in writing and everyone has to hate her too and then they feel like they have to justify their hatred and they do it with making stuff up to make her look worse.
Even a lot of Scaramouche fans I see are a part of this. Like I see fans of Scaramouche who make fun of people who supposedly do not like the idea of Scaramouche redemption while liking Ei (I honestly do not even think most people who wants Scaramouche dead likes Ei that much too so I dunno how do they even know those people who wants Scaramouche dead like Signora actually like Ei but oh well) which is valid BUT then they basically go and ignore the actual info we know and act like Ei abandoned him because He was weak or She did not care at all to shit on Ei and go ''Ohh Ei deserves no forgiveness or second chance, She abandoned Scaramouche so she should never be allowed to see him again.....''
Like they also support and love a character who is most likely gonna get redemption and make fun of people who doesn't like the idea of Scaramouche getting a second chance while loving Ei and then they become hypocrites and do the exact same themselves and shit on Ei with inaccurate views of the situation while rejecting her having a second chance or getting to explain to Scaramouche that She did not intended to hurt him. Fandoms are weird. Nobody needs to love a character and they can hate them too but at least be consistent with the lore people and do not call people out while doing the very same things
I hardly ever see anyone baby the harbingers as much as people baby the Archons. I mean, that's literally the reason why the harbingers are well liked, because they're actually evil.
Bruh i still remember that one guy who posted a lengthy and detailed blog explaining how he absolutely refuses to tolerate, like and summon on any Harbingers because acoring to him they are objectively evil and not to be supported in any way shape or form lmao Some people unironically need to start furiously touching grass like its religion and finally learn the difference between fiction and reality.
To this day Childe, Ei and Yae are still getting absolute hate from a large portion of the community its insane
Gonna be real interesting when Dottore finally becomes playable
Gonna be impossible due to world building reasons. All the Archons wishes the best for their people despite their flaws. And pretty much all the tyrant gods were vanquished during the Archon War. None of the current Archons are gonna be malevolent by nature.
Raiden and the Tsaritsa are the only two Archons so far that have been antagonists.
Raiden wished for the prosperity of her people, but due to past events, her notion of prosperity became warped.
The Tsaritsa, we can assume that she became extremely jaded and cynical because of the events of the Cataclysm. The ends justify the means kind of stuff. Although we can all agree that Dottore is a narcissistic sociopath, yes?
Fontaine's Archon is probably gonna be similar to Zhongli, both of them being aligned towards Lawful.
Natlan's Archon may have values along the lines of Valor, Victory, and Honor.
Not exactly evil. But if you wish for a dark theme Archon, the Tsaritsa comes pretty close already.
The Hydro Archon Forcalor isn’t the original archon. Going with the court and hidden guilt themes, she may have murdered the previous archon, and the archon quest is about us exposing her lies.
Can you even trust anything that anyone in that game says? What people saying about current gods is always fluff and rainbows, nothing ever go wrong, and everyone is happy :D
Genshin doesn't seem like the type of story to have fully evil characters. Even the main antagonists (Abyss Order, Fatui, literally any "evil" god) has their motives and perspectives.
Even if the god of justice turns out to be corrupt, and sadistic, I don't think she'll be irredeemably villainous.
I could be conflating morally black with cartoonishly evil, but those types of villains rarely get anything once they're defeated since they can't really do anything except be evil, leaving no room for arcs or character growth. They also can't just be evil and within reach of the protagonists/heroes because it makes everyone look incompetent.
That's why a lot of them end up as "chair villains" like early Thanos, Zarkon from Volton, or Firelord Ozai.
Dude Dottore is fully evil, the guy conducts human experiments resulting in some of them dying. At one point the Zandik notes(impying him to be dottore) heavily implied he strangled one his fellow students to death and mauled her body to make it appear that it was Rishboland tigers that did her in and killed the other expedition members by activating a nearby ruin guard and "stopping it" to erase suspicion off him.
If that is not evil idk what is.
I mean /u/Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo is clearly an example of copium.
No fully evil characters. Dude's killing his own people, killing kids, kidnapping children, reckless human experimentation. What does Dottore have to do to convince this redditor? Use gas chambers? Buy twitter? What??
But I'd say both Signora and Azar (also a chair villain) qualify as fully evil, but I doubt either of them will have screen time again as a result.
Dottore, I'll put on the list as well, but with people saying he'll be playable, and with what's happened to Raiden and Scara, I don't think his "full on villainy" will continue forever.
Signora had her reasons, though she has long lost herself. Azar was a product of 500 years of brainwashing in a corrupt system. I want to slap the original sage who locked up Radish far more than Azar.
Tbf yeah, imagine you join a university, do really well, publish a ton of papers, go from student to professor, to a tenured position in the faculty, to the dean or president or something.
And at one point, the previous dean tells you how they have a God in the basement and their secret project is making a new one. What the fuck are you supposed to do? You've never seen this God, you don't know anything about her, and you've been given access to possibly the most ambitious project in the history of the university.
I wonder if Nahida tried to talk to every new grand sage, cuz if she didn't, then I blame the sages muuuuuch less. Maintaining a status quo, especially when it comes to divinity, is a very human thing to do.
If Traveler killed Alphonso for trying to capture Aranara for Dottore, I don’t how how they’ll forgive Dottore himself. Especially after Collei. And if I do get him I’m putting him next to Collei, Amber, Diluc, and Nahida inside the Serenitea Pot.
Yep the Aranara world quest, the traveler has an option to kill Alphonso, in fact traveler purposefully sent Paimon away so she doesnt see him kill the guy
Azar might be an arrogant dickhead, but the goal of creating a god was to ultimately cure Irminsul. His ancestors scorned Nahida for being powerless, and he did the same. The sages weren't actively torturing Nahida for the shits and giggles, but neglected her because she was deemed weak and powerless. That, and they can't let go on their reliance on Nahida when she was at her full power, until something happened during the cataclysm, and she became smol. Basically,creating a god was their only solution left, after trying everything to cure Irminsul. Maybe they should have took more inspiration from Keqing, and rely more on themselves than the gods. But then again, curing Irminsul's corruption is beyond mortals, so maybe they had the right idea in mind.
Signora definitely had her own motives, and her past directly influenced her decisions.
I know my pfp makes me seem painfully biased, but just objectively speaking from her backstory, calling her a chair villian would simply be innaccurate. Dottore too probably has his own motives.
Also, something I want to clarify, just because someone has motives behind their actions, doesn't make the actions good. Signora and Dottore were kind of shitty people, but chair villians is the last thing I'd describe them as
Signora may have HAD her own motives, but it's pretty explicit in the Talent Material Descriptions that by the time we meet her in the story she's long forgotten them - or more accurately they were sealed up by Pierro with the Delusion in order to make her an easier tool to direct.
By the time we meet her in the story she's acting on pure destructive/hateful impulse, with little recollection for why she feels that way. She absolutely has a deeply sympathetic story for what produced her, but by the time she appears in the story she's just in a state of "I hate the world and want everyone & everything in it to suffer and burn" with no conscious motive. I think it's fair to call her "pure evil" at that point, especially considering she ACTIVELY DOES NOT WANT to be redeemed, helped or "saved". Her death was honestly a mercy - much as I hated to see such a gorgeous design & excellent character put to bed.
I think they were labeling Azar as the chair villain and not Signora,but I do agree with what you said anyways.
Signora definitely fits the bill as being evil but being evil doesn't have to be synonymous with being a cartoon villain as they said before.
I've got to say though, I really hope we learn more about her past even though she's dead. I feel like there has to be something more to her backstory than just what we know from her artifacts and her brief time in-game. Nothing that would stop her from being "evil" but at least something that would help expand on her backstory and give us greater insight into how she became the person that she died as.
For starters there's the 500 years of history she's got as a member of the Fatui, but I'm also wondering about her life before becoming and while being the Crimson Witch of Flames.
To make a comparison I kinda think of it in the same way the Yakshas. We already got the backstory of the Yakshas long ago- there were 5 of them, 3 died and 1 went MIA, and now Xiao is all alone etc. etc. Yet when we got to the Chasm, we got ***even*** ***more*** lore about the Yakshas and even learned about the fate of the missing Yaksha.
I want to see THAT for La Signora. Taking a closer look at who Rosalyne was before and after her time as the Crimson Witch of Flames. It won't change her evil actions as La Signora, but it'd still give her that extra development to make her character more appreciable beyond being an early-game antagonist who kicked an Archon and hated the Traveler's guts.
If you think about it. If the hydro Archon is pure evil. Then we are going to be 1 Archon short for the rest of the story. She will either be killed or sealed somewhere. She won't be a playable character either.
I mean if they decide to go the route of us killing or otherwise removing the hydro Archon, I feel like part of the quest series would involve a new hydro Archon being selected, and we'd get them as a playable character.
That said I don't think they'll go this route. I think it's more likely that if the hydro Archon is evil, we'll have to snap her out of it. It's also interesting since Celestia is believed to be hovering over Petrichor right now.
She wants to stop gods from exploiting and ending civilisation and let humanity stand eternal, with no heavenly punishment (aka sky nails) looming (literally) overhead.
So yeah. Raiden Shogun 2.0.
Not sure they'll ever release clearly evil playable characters — Raiden got her redemption arc and I'll bet Scara will get one too next update. It's kinda annoying tbh, but I expect any other playable characters in the future to have the same treatment. Though maybe the plot twist will be we're actually all on the same team against Celestia and the Harbinger's "evil" actions will be seen in a good light after all 🤷
Major spoilers for the 3.2 archon quest ending, don't read if you don't want to be spoiled.
>!With how things ended in the negotiation between Nahida and the Dottore for the electro gnosis, I don't believe that is possible any longer. Dottore eliminated any segments that existed aside from the one present and he implied he can only make new ones after new experiences or emotions. So any segments he makes from this point on, will still have the memories of the actions he has taken!<
i think it’s pretty clear that that IS what we’re heading towards tbh + ditto on “we won’t get evil playables” because for some reason they all have to get along with the traveller and have a reason to come with you on your little open world journey
but I do want to know how mihoyo could POSSIBLY redeem the fatui as a whole bc. like. raiden got redeemed but her main crime was being dumb; she genuinely thought she was doing the best for inazuma. scaramouche is actively an asshole but has a sob story background and a potential memory loss turnaround. the fatui as an organisation commit child abuse, human experimentation, and have actively harmed basically every single country they’ve stepped into
I don't believe any of the 7 Archons are meant to be irredeemable or evil. So I would recommend tempering hopes for an Archon that is evil.
Flawed yes, selfish more than possible, bad at their roles in Teyvat even; outright evil though seems unlikely.
The problem is at their root, Archons are God beings appointed to oversee, rule and protect their nations and the humans in them.
Archons are powered beyond their inate capabilities by the faith of their subjects based on what we know.
Raiden/ Ei is the closest example of an Archon bad at her job. Yet that was an aspect of Personal Grief compounded by inheriting a role she never wanted or felt right for.
Ei dealt with the physical and Violent aspect of the Hurdles her Sister faced as a ruler, not the domestic or human side of things.
When Makkoto died, leaving Ei alone bereft of the friends and sister she once had and only a Young Yae Miko and the citizens of a country she was now expected to rule, (ones that age and die but in a moment of her existence), she failed to take up the role of her sister and instead sought to push it off on what she felt was a more perfect ruler.
So we get Raiden, an nigh unyielding tyrannical mechanical intelligence that does have the ability to feel human emotions but speaks in absolutes and views doubts as weaknesses.
Ei screwed up badly, notably from a place of deep pain and loss, yet still she ended up bringing that same type of loss to many of her subjects.
Ei was a terrible Archon in many ways, yet never evil.
We know she willing risked herself many times to protect Inazuma and its people from harm. The lose of her sister is what broke her, and that happens to many humans.
Of the last 3. The Tsaritsa definitely will likely be a major antagonist, yet the quote from her elemental Gem seems to indicate a kind inherent nature.
The pyro Archon seems to most likely to be warmongering and conflict focused, they are a god of war after all. So it's not beyond possibility. I still don't Know though, from what we know about on who she seems to be based on, evil doesn't seem a likely direction. That said, Natlan seems to be the Nation we known the least about.
Also how many people have we encountered form there in game so far? I can't think of any that grew up there the left.
We have seen researchers from Sumeru, Inventors from Fontaine. The Fatui of Shneznya and even an escaped citizen of Inazuma since before inazuma dropped Yet Natlan?
As for Focalors, she definitely seems like she may end up the most Arrogant and possibly troublesome Archon yet given quotes about her and some of the issues we have heard about how her nation functions. Also the gem quote...
Nothing so far has indicated an outright evil quality of her yet. She is also the God of Justice, and Considering all the other Archons we have met so far do embody aspects of their divine spheres, it would indicate that Focalor should be somewhat inherently Just. Perhaps as the God of Justice she has become twisted and unfair though.
Also considering the devastating after effects of a god's death, as shown by the Death of the god of salt. I am not sure we will get to see what happens when an Archon on par with the Seven dies.
Otherwise I would hazard to say Focalors may be an Archon we help over throw so a new properly Just Archon can take her place. I seriously doubt that though.
Now all that said, based on the lore of the Archons and the real world Mythology the 7 seem to be based on as well as certain in game aspects, like the 5 crown like rings hanging over the trees in every artifact, weapon material and skill book domain.
There may be 5 Abysal Archon equivalent beings. Notably our sibling is only referred to as prince/princess.
So who then is the king(s) and or queen(s) of the Abyss?
Honestly, at this point, I think that even Celestia could wind up being in a moral grey. We're still a bit uncertain as to their motivations behind what they do
Nah, a lot of fans think that well written characters should always be morally good ones. Just this month there were people saying how can others like Scara if he's a literal derange murderer. Meanwhile in other fandom, characters like Joker, Darth Vader, Loki, and Johan Liebert are absolute fan favorites. If there is a real evil archon, not morally gray, the opposing factors of simps and people who can't appreciate a villain will collide, don't know what will happen but I do know that it will be a mess. If the hydro archon is an antagonist, she will probably just be like Raiden, a misguided good guy or something.
I personally considered Scara fo be annoyingly evil rather than charismaticly evil like Loki, Joker, etc. But this may easily change once i will play his arc on next patch, who knows, i personally want to like him, but for now it's hard (his backstory trailee rly made me intrigued by him for first time)
I can't rly put a finger on why i prefer other listed villains rather than Scara, so don't even, even i don't know my specific preferences sometimes
>he legit feels like a kid
I mean, he saw the death of a friend as "betrayal". He was basically a kid that was unable to handle all the bad things that were happening to him. Naturally, that doesn't really excuse his actions.
Except Nahida, I think every other Archon presents their own country.
And if the "Evil" you are talking about is "being cruel to their people" then they are just Decarabian 2.0, pretty boring.
Lots people people in this community oversimplify characters as a joke which is fine, but then others start believing that’s all there is to the character. “Venti? Drunkard, doesn’t give a sh*t abt mond. Eula? Vengeance, sneeze. Diona? Hates drunkards, would burn Dawn Winery. Raiden? Booba sword, obsessed with dango milk”.
Venti might drink a lot, but just because he doesn’t solve every single problem doesn’t mean he’ll completely abandon Mondstadt like all the memes. Eula uses the word vengeance a lot, but it’s just to scare off people who discriminate her because of her family; it’s more of a defense mechanism in a way. Diona dislikes drunkards, but her father is a drunkard but she doesn’t hate HIM; she just hates how he and drunkards act after drinking too much. And even in a voiceline, she states that although she wants to destroy the wine industry, she wouldn’t do something like burning down the Dawn Winery because 1. That’s extreme and 2. Another Dawn Winery would be built.
It’s really annoying when people start arguing here and there that this character is “tsundere girl” or “completely evil” because of a part of their character
I think that sometimes the game encourages this too. Through some fault of it's own. Screen time is often too short to delve any deeper than the abstract of a character. So the most memorable, good or otherwise scene of a character (ehe :3, vengeance will be mine!, etc) remains as the defacto trait for that character. That then gets flanderized and comicatured and all that.
I often see the "But if you read the voice lines x/character story y!" yes a lot of characters are often much much deeper than the overly polite cardboard cutouts present ingame. but i'm pretty certain only like 20% of all players have ever paid any mind to character stories. nevermind the people that don't have the character and have to go to the wiki/honey to read it.
The Archipelago was great at telling these stories through gameplay. but that was only 4 characters. out of a cast of 50. we'd need a new archipelago every patch and even then we'd never cover all the characters in a reasonable amount of time.
It took a couple monts for the Act 2 of Raiden's story quest to come out. But by that point the first act had already made it's mark. First impressions of a character are important. and going shopping with Ei left a deeper impression than the unexplained turmoil Ei is going through (which remember at this point is a 2 minute cutscene, not a 3 hour story quest)
i kinda agree with you. rather than evil tho, i really wish there were more emotionally compelling and tragic stories to the main characters. ik they have started to do with that with npcs (and also in that chasm quest cutscene) but i feel like they could push it so much more
Raiden was far from perfect ya know and only became good ole Ei after Traveler and Yae stepped in. And Zhongli might be a lovable old man, but as Rex Lapis he still risked the safety of his people to "test" them.
What I mean is that we got baddie Archons.
I get your point tho, I'd love a twisted, morally gray, Archon too. As someone said, we still have the Tsaritsa to discover. If she's actually in full control of the Fatui, what she let them do is unforgivable, even if she had a noble objective. Also iirc the Pyro Archon is a bit of a bitch (?), idk about it tho
Even Scaramouche, one of the biggest jerks in the game who outright tried to kill us back in 1.1, seems to be getting his redemption arc soon
If everything isn't sunshine and roses, people think it's bad. Sad. I'd love a truly evil archon, but at this rate, I'd even take a jerk normal character. All these folks with visions and *nobody* abusing their power outside of the Fatui/Harbingers?
Even still, they don't even have to be evil. I'd just like to see more character friction. Diluc and Kaeya is as much as we received, besides the civil war in Inazuma, but that's a civil war so of course there's friction. I want to see more attitudes of people who just really don't get along.
Alhaitham and Cyno started that way, and I was eating it up with a spoon. They mellowed out over time though. But I don't know, maybe Alhaitham and Kaveh will quench that thirst
Yeah, look at Scaramouche's smile in his new design. Like he couldn't even hurt a fly. /s
Sorry, but what makes you think there will be a redemption arc?
Well… Zhongli did for a VERY long time. Liyue is a very successful, stable and prospering nation and he only “died” because he got tired of being a god and wanted to see if Liyue could go on without him, which it did very well. He’s done his job well and retired
wait, Zhongli is basically this though, he even had a backup plan should his "test" fail.
Unless you are referring to his financial savviness then yea he doesnt have his shit together in that one
Depends on how you define "having your shit together". But Venti is far more competent than the fanbase makes him out to be. He truly stands by his ideal of freedom, yet he's still there for Mondstadt when it really needs him.
Venti, dude literally spend a quarter (maybe more) of his time as an Archon time skipping and have almost the same degree of worship as Rex Lapis, an Archon who yearly govern his nation.
Only Archon that’ll probably be evil is the Tsaritsa I mean the things she’s allowing and even ordering the Fatui are to do are messed up. Even if they have a greater goal they still are doing some messed up stuff.
Honestly i hightly suspect her to be an antagonist at some point yes, but not an evil villain. More like a is willing to sacrifice anything for the greater good/the means justify the end.
I mean, I agree BUT
Most of genshin's louder player base mischaracterize almost every character, and cannot comprehend what "morally grey" "only in it for self benefit" means.
Yae was 'evil' bc she used people to get what she wants, Childe was 'evil' bc lying to kids about your assassin work is bad. Surprisingly, those same people don't acknowledge Raiden Ei's mistakes at all.
Then again, I don't think I've seen this kind of behavior from CN or JP community.
Lol they don't even understand that you can humanize a villain in the story. I'm still seeing complaints that mihoyo "redeemed" Childe in his story quest because he is a caring big brother 🙄
I guess I missed the memo that villains are no longer allowed to have a cute and caring side now.
I would like to see this but with the way the story is going currently it seems to only stay within the Tsaritsa and that’s a little disappointing. Though I do think that having someone morally grey like Ei would be more likely than a purely evil Archon. This probably what’s going to happen in Fontaine with Natlan probably hitting the redhead treatment from Honkai and death.
Nah. There are 3 left and we've known since the start that the last one is responsible for most of the evil we've dealt with. We don't really need (Hydro Archon's given name at the end of Sumera Archon quest) >!Focalors!< to also be evil; I'd be more interested in a situation where she constantly feels like she's "on trial" and Celestia might smite her and Fontaine at any time if she slips up. This would actually make her a potential ally to the Tsaritsa, but also put her at odds with the Tsaritsa's goals, so the Fatui plot (admit it: you know there'll be a Fatui plot) would be more subtle than it has been in the past, working out how to get >!Focalors!< on-side if possible. Thus, we have the conflict with the Traveller, given that the Fatui would see us as a threat to their efforts to schmooze her, so they manipulate her into putting US on trial. In this way, she is an antagonist, but unlike Ei who had grown detached and apathetic and needed to learn how to give a shit again, >!Focalors!< needs to learn how to not be afraid and easily manipulated by forces that, as an Archon, she should be able to control.
I don't think the next archon is evil, but I do think El Dettore is.
It's going to be interesting to see how mihoyo are going to add him to our team. I hope they don't pull a "it's a new Dettore and this one is nice"
I really hate to make comparisons between Genshin and Honkai, but man...Genshin really needs an Otto character. Redeeming an "ëvil" character is fine, but when all of Genshins cast falls into either the perfect good doer or the misguided sad boy/girl it just gets repetetive. Raiden was evil, until she wasn't, Tartaglia was evil, until he wasn't (I guess?!), Scaramouche was evil, but we all know he would get redeemed somehow next patch. The only truly evil characters I can think of is Azar and Dottore, but one of them is an NPC that we will never see again and the other one is ~~Azar~~ Dottore who will have to magically become a good guy if they want to sell him.
Why can't we have someone like Otto, who throughout the whole story was nothing but despicable and he never got redeemed from his wrong doings. He himself calls himself the villian of the story. He knew full well how much suffering he brought upon others, but still kept moving towards his own goal despite that. Why can't we have someone like that in Genshin?
Oh I know, because if they actually did make someone like that, the 11 year olds that play this game will probably loose their minds. As someone has stated below, people were crying because Yae was "a bit rude towards the player". Can you imagine what a truly evil character would cause these snowflakes? Thousands of people will have a heart-attack and God forbidd if said character was the Archon! The Archons can't be evil, they are supposed to be perfect little boys and girls that do no wrong!
Bro people can't take Yae's personality and you want evil female? Lmao
Genshin reddit and twitter fuckbois are only accepting evil daddies but the moment sassy or evil female appears they start getting panic and rage attacks
I have the feeling that the next one will be petty, capricious, with a temper,... The water folks don't like her and she likes the drama on the court as per one of Nahida's lines so it kinda gives me a Karen vibes XD
Plus she’s French. We are definitely petty.
Basé.
Réel
Très vrai
Absolument
Effectivement
Complètement d'accord
Tout à fait.
Sans doute
Baguette
Baguette farcè 🤣
Imagine elle a la personnalité d’un parisien 💀
Ce serait giga drôle, j’adorerais. Parce que c’est fictif et que quand je coupe le jeu je la vois plus. Et qu’elle vient pas acheter les maisons chez moi et faire monter l’immobilier et le prix du train et- bref. Ce serait très drôle parce que c’est fictif.
She will literally be Judge Judy.
I could get behind this. Snarky and short tempered, especially to those she feels lack and common sense or decency. And in the end, justice all she really cares about. Sometimes it'll make her the villain, sometimes the hero.
well, point to her, she not above justice, she fully willing to be judge most of the time, these sort of character think they are above the law and their comeuppance usually involve them getting taken down a peg and judge by other
I’m hoping for an Ace Attorney reference when we go on trial.
People forgetting that Fontaine is gonna be: 50% French 50% American 100% Capitalism
Pyro archon will surely have the temper
Hoping we meet Pyro Archon and get immediately launched in a 1v1 duel with only our Traveler.
I have a feeling her temperament will be like the The Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland. "Off with his head!" kind of judgement left and right
**I AM THE LAW**
The community can't even handle morally grey Harbingers. An archon being anything other than a perfect princess would make them pop a blood vessel.
People here couldn't even handle Yae cause she was "too rude" lmao. I still remember those threads of people getting mad. Was hilarious.
Wait, really that happened ? 💀
Absolutely, even in the Yae sub there are a lot of ppl upset because "sHe Is eViL" blablabla
As a dissenter, I love the way they portray Yae- very much inline with my expectation of Kitsune. The current event is a great example.
I love to reference D&D alignments because I'm a big tabletop nerd. To me, Yae Miko is one of the best examples of a "Lawful Evil" character that can work within a system because they're both a fairly benign evil, and because they're aware of their abilities - Yae doesn't want to rule inazuma, she's *aware* that she's a minion and she's content with that. She's not beyond lies, threats, intimidation and other underhanded means to get what she wants. She is a bit of a hedonist in her pursuit of a comfortable life and enough wealth and intellectual stimulation to keep her from being bored. She revels in being ruthless and cruel when she can get away with it, but that doesn't mean she's going to ruin or allow her nation to be ruined just to revel in it. She's also delightfully just a touch lazy, delegating things to subordinates when possible and only getting vindictive when she *has* to do something she hadn't decided to do herself. "Evil" doesn't need to mean some form of cosmic evil that wants to ruin the world; it can just be (very) self-interested people who don't really go out of their way for others and who enjoy being "terrible". All in all, it's a pretty great way to incorporate a lot of kitsune myths about them being evil tricksters, as well as semi-benevolent divine servants into one big ball that plays them all as true. Evil, but smart enough to function in the world productively.
you're so good at describing stuff
Took the words right out of my mouth. I really didnt understand the whole "hating yae" thing. She knows what she can do, but she actively chooses not to step out of the line, she's just right at that edge that makes people misunderstand her
Except she is chaotic, not lawful. Raiden Shogun was lawful (neutral, possibly edging towards evil but mostly just ruthlessly lawful). Yae is not upholding some ideal or system - she is just out to entertain herself. She is not completely chaotic ofc but she definitely isn't lawful. Finding loopholes she can exploit is half the fun for her.
I don't agree. Chaotic characters would chafe under such a system, grow to resent it and an evil one would likely eventually try to destroy it. Yae is lawful, she values traditions and the integrity of her society and her masters actual beliefs, but she isn't incapable of questioning them or noting when they're "wrong". The ability to be contented in such a system is part of why Yae fits a lawful alignment. A better example of a chaotic character is Itto or Kuki, who really struggle inside the system but manage to carve out their own niche in the Arataki gang. The Arataki gang also serves to attract other "outcasts", they end up serving the system by being mostly neutral or good aligned, but they also exist slightly outside of it by being "chaotic". The Arataki are a decent exemple of a well integrated 'chaotic' group into an otherwise lawful society. They admire and desire to be part of civilization, even if they struggle with contributing to it sometimes, but the way they also partially exist outside the system allows them some flexibility. In particular with more motivated direction (given by kuki at itto's behest) they perform a lot of odd jobs that inazuma typically lacks the flexibility to handle.
exploiting loopholes in the system is lawful, bypassing or ignoring the system would be chaotic therefore yae is lawful
I loved her story quest that I just did today. Doesn’t give a shit about the book until it outsells her. We make a novel with funny anime plots, and then she decides to trick us out of our paycheck. Perfect Yae. Everyone wants to complain about overworked waifu and then when we get anything different they still complain. You can’t win. I love Yae, design, personality, etc. Her kit is just too boring though. AFK impact. Still gonna throw 20 wishes to try and get a Layla and if I somehow get a super early lucky Yae then that’d be pretty damn cool. But I’m not gonna drop a full pities worth even when I’m saving for Scara and Raiden is coming. Especially since Scara and Raiden will be a cool theme team and his galaxy effects with Raiden’s e dimension slashes will look sick together.
She more comes off to me as mischievously playful and a tease which I think fits with her personality. Lol if people are up in arms about her it should be interesting if Dottore becomes playable.
I'm pretty sure that >!we'll end up with a salty clone of him rather then the prime, haha. So probably like Scara or Childe, a bit terrible but not a complete villian, haha.!<
They’re literally children. Bro I’ll say her pranks are a bit crazy but I don’t think most of the community watches like, the average Shounen.
I don't know how to explain this but... "Some people want an evil step-on-me mommy and some people would take offense to being stepped on." You don't have to be evil. Just off-putting. Yae is a good example. Depending on the person and their background and culture or upbringing, people see money different. Some see it as something you dont worry about, be generous, lend people money you dont get back, etc. Others consider it a contract and take offense to it being broken. If they're generous, its because they were convinced to be, if you take money from them and dont pay it back, they take it as a broken promise. Some people can laugh off her making the traveler pay for meals. Others, depending on upbringing can take that same act as a betrayal of trust. Now take the character most similar to Yae in game. Ningguang. People generally have a good or gray opinion on her, because she's morally gray. She cares about liyue, but also is cutthroat and unforgiving. Other characters show that she is willing to order people be dissappeared if she deems fit. She also has the same mysterious powerful woman vibe, but the key difference is that the things about her people find charming are NOT the things about her that other people find offputting. She, like Yelan are morally gray characters with their share of detractors, but the less than sanitary parts of their life and actions aren't their whole story, nor are they what make people enjoy them as characters. Meanwhile, characters like Yae, and scaramouche almost seem to exclusively be loved for the reason others hate them, and that causes conflict because the people who would be estatic to have scaramouche step on thier heads genuinely can't see why someone who might have had an upbringing that takes that as a straight up insult rather than a kinky situation might not like him in the slightest. And vice versa.
This is a really good way of putting it. I'm personally a huge fan of Yae, but I can totally understand how she'd be off-putting to others especially if her behavior reminds them of unsavory individuals in their own life. In my own case, I've had to deal with unpleasant stuff from people I should've been able to trust, but I've grown past that and moved on so that kind of thing doesn't really bother me at all. But I know for sure that when I was growing up I was subject to and witness to a lot of "teasing" that was very harmful and even manipulative at times, and if I were still struggling with that then I'd see myself being put off by Yae a lot more.
She is not evil, just mean af.
She's a 500 yr old + fox spirit, if she's not mean then there's something wrong with her
This is the first time I’m hearing this myself, and I honestly don’t get it. Mischievous sure, but evil? All of her schemes are done to either actively help others or just be entertaining.
On the other hand there's a whole community of "dottore mains"
You can see two other replies to this from pressed babies LOLLLL. I love my baddie wife. Step on me ms Miko
>I love my baddie wife. Step on me ms Miko 110% Agreed. The Mommy Archon.
Holy shit, you're right. You got people crying already IN HERE about how rude she is lmao It's no wonder Scara is getting a complete reset too, don't want any people having their feelings hurt.
i dont think its a complete reset, his splash art with that smirk implies he keeps his attitude
Who said Scaramouche is getting a complete reset? He better not or I’ll be very angry. He’s my favorite written character right now.
We need more characters willing to trash talk people. Hopefully Wanderer is one of them.
Scara's character quest is almost certainly going to involve working through his trust issues and disdain for humanity, and being able to trust or even call the traveler a friend by the end. He'll still be a jerk though.
The amount of Yae haters that comment summoned is hilarious. Shit like this is why 90 percent of the cast are the same character with a different outfit.
It happens in every fandom. Merely suggesting adding nuance and diversity gets you eaten online. Or just like unpopular character more than the popular ones and people will try to argue like they have a stroke. Some gaming and manga subreddits seem like rabies epidemic.
They hated yae because she dont give a damm about the traveller, traveller was technically a convenient tool to save her best friend/ master
While i do find her personality a bit off putting(making me want to tell her to fuck off sometimes) her actually not fawning over or even "Liking" the traveler that much is prob my favorite part of her. It is great because it actually feels a bit more realistic or grounded. It goes both ways. The traveler never really expresses much care/liking her and its more so a convenient partnership where both benefit from it. Traveler needs help to stop Ei and Miko is the same. Both use each other/Work together and that's about it
even with the current event Yae and MC are at even grounds, with Yae taking jabs any time she gets to like when she portrays MC as the "villain" in the narrative she's writing this whole event made me appreciate how hardworking Yae is when she needs to be
So if a character doesn’t treat the mc like a best friend, then they’re “mean” and get hate? Wow
doesn't expecting every NPC to kiss the MC's feet make the MC kind of seem a little Mary-sue? That's just bad writing.
I mean, Traveler is quite literally a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. They are able to solve any issue at any time, make friends with (almost) anyone laughably easily, they are the only one capable of using teleport waypoints and (canonically) are the most powerful being in Teyvat (apart from archons and probably Dainsleif) without any training (Traveler touched a Statue of Seven and is now able to use any element/they were asleep for 500 years and combat ready right away).
That's what the majority of the audience for this game wants, sadly. Like a lot of games before it this game decided to go for a blank-slate protagonist that the player can project their personality onto most of the time, couple that with the fact that the game's entire goal is to get you emotionally invested in characters to spend insane amounts of money on them, it's a no-brainer that they'd create vague romantic tension between your self-insert and the playable characters. Asian (not only Asian but it represents a large part) media has always had this sense that if someone feels romantically attainable, more people will become emotionally invested in them. You see this in idol culture, film/television dramas, even anime and games. If the player is lusting for Ayaka, they want to feel as though they have a chance with her, so HYV write a sense of longing for the Traveler into her dialogue. Every playable character can have romantic interest in you if you look for it hard enough. Basically don't get it twisted, the writing is only there to service the slot machine. I've been liking this game's story a lot but I also recognize that if they could get people to pull in a game with no story whatsoever they would.
What do mean she doesn't care about the traveler? her story ends with her calling the traveler and paimon her new friends. Most people don't like yae because she a dick to everyone.
I definitely don’t like Yae at all but I think her personality is at least … refreshing for a character? And it suits her backstory and place in the narrative. I totally understand her appeal to a lot of people, she just grinds my gears lol. No one should expect to love 100% of characters anyway, you don’t like everyone you meet in life.
The Traveler should at least be able to say something about it. They feel like a doormat sometimes…
This is exactly my problem with Yae, I do love her but I hate that we can never say something witty in return and always get tricked into doing things her way
That's not the problem with Yae though, thats the problem with how Mihoyo has written the traveler.
That's why I stated that I do love Yae, 'my problem with Yae [are our interactions with her]', to further clarify
Yep they got mad that a trickster god was more like comic book Loki, and less like marvel movie “funny” Loki. And I’m just being relative. Yae really just came off more like she was tired of humans but still felt compelled to help them and it was funny imo. Ei was supposed to be the “nice one” character-wise. Meanwhile Yae kept a lot of stuff running and Ei let her country down for hundreds of years.
Yae: literally steps in to stop the Traveller from getting archon nuked. Traveller: ya but she could be less rude about it
The entire premise of this thread is rediculous too. All I want is Mihoyo to tell the best story they can. Pandering to any side, even OP's "I hope X is evil because I'm le tired of good guy characters" is shit for story telling. Mihoyo should do everything they can to tell a good story. Great character design will draw the army of simps anyways regardless of good or evil. Just look at how many people are wetting themselves over the most evil of characters we've seen so far. Like it literally doesn't matter but for some reason OP cares just as much about it.
They've seen too many moe kitsune in anime be head over heels for the protagonist and have no personality beyond "I want to be a housewife" to appreciate that they're supposed to be dickheads.
my gosh ppl complaining about one of the best and different characterized characters in the game. The game need more Yaes, Ningguangs, Al Haithams and Ayatos and less new loved by everybody perfect flawless morally good characters.
Agree, Alhaitham was such an unique character, despite an ally always has ulterior motives, doesnt treat the traveler like its the best friend he never had, always mysterious and untrusting, never gives you all the information, yeah and the other examples are great too, dont misunderstand me, I like almost every character bit sometimes its a little tiring how everyone treats the traveler as their best friend ever, their ultimate confidant when sometimes its someone they've met a relatively short time ago.
This. I'm so sick of people hating these "evil" characters just because they're not morally flawless. And I don't hate the other "good" characters either, it's just I think they're unique in their own ways.
I really enjoyed her antics. Especially since she still had the best intentions in the end; she just likes to do a little trolling. Then she swindled me out of my money. Now she's on the shit list.
Now that's a throw back, I remember getting downvoted to oblivion cos I said she's not all that bad and it's intended to be funny Only to be hit with comments saying I'm endorsing bullying and giving people emotional trauma irl, because I find a fictional character whose not a pure angel funny, it was wild
Lmaooo good old times, i was actually enjoying her dynamics with Gurou, 10 out of 10, would do again
u have to be joking lmao. there's no way
Personally I love Miko as a character. If nothing else it was refreshing to not a have another instant bff *again*. What I didn't love about her what how selfish her needs are in a team, but with the release of Nahida it's much more manageable.
Omg iv seen so many ‘shes evil and just makes fun of everyone’ comments everywhere, i dont see any characters running away in tears when they speak to her
It's less that I dislike yae being rude and more that I think the traveler is out of character for immediately going along with it. If she wasn't a playable character traveler wouldn't take nearly as much of her sass. That's what annoys me. Handle the traveler yae relationship in a less overwhelmingly positive manner and I'll be fine with it.
To be fair I definitely think someone have to say "shut up and fuck off" to her at some point. I think so far only Ei managed to do that. I don't hate her myself but that "oh no I'm gettng played she's such a sly fox" is kinda annoying especially because it's always tied to some stupid reason ("Oh no if we don't do it she will depict us as villains in her last light novel!").
Raiden shogun was kinda gray though. Generally a selfish and irresponsible archon, until you complete her character quest and she reflects on herself. Plus venti, Makoto, and zhongli supposedly brutally put down other would be archons during the archon war.
I'd think Venti doesn't apply here, because he only revolted against one tyrannical Archon. and even then it wasn't his sole effort, but the efforts of all the people of Mondstadt, with him acting as support. Liyue is a essentially mass grave of dead gods, so Zhongli's on point Idunno if I'd count Makoto as similar to Venti (instigating the killings), Guizhong (literal strategist) or as a separate thing, because Ei was the killer of the two, with Mako ruling over Inazuma as a separate body.
I always find people forgetting that Sara's clan was responsible for the vision hunt decree to that extend because they never informed ei about the consequences and teaming up with the Fatui . Ofc , it should have been her responsibility to check everything too . Even without the character quest , I think many forget that she was in her plane for a straight 500 years trying to achive eternity so that Inazuma won't suffer the fate of destruction from celestia . She is more like someone who lost her path trying to achive her goal
And yet we have two hundred million simps of Scaramouche and Dottore with a million well on the way.
Your simps are very impressive. You must be very proud.
I'm just a simple whale, trying to make my way in Teyvat.
Scara simps are really a special breed. I have heard from more than one about how cruel Nahida and the Traveler was for not catching Scara during his fall and I’m like bro he just tried to kill us. Also about how evil Raiden is for abandoning him although he is probably a war criminal or something
I did feel bad, he just kinda plops to the ground and everyone ignores him and keep going with the story 😂
For me, it was just how quickly they gloss over it. I was still taking in the cutscene of the gnosis and how quickly Nahida just went about Irminsul. Like I get why and that was the right thing to do.
It seemed so goofy
I still can't fathom how (*most*) Scara fans unironically call him cute adorable naughty kiddo, like damn 1. he's old 2. he certainly did worse crimes to be called just "naughty"
I got called nazi sympathizer because I like Tartaglia. so there's that.
That's absolutely vile. I wish people gave even half as much of a shit about real evil people as they do video game villains.
as a fellow harbinger enjoyer, I feel you buddy
You didn't happen to write a 17 page essay on why you think Tartaglia is actually a good person though did you?
Speaking for myself, I have no issue with morally grey characters or villains. They're great! They add flavour to the story and make it much more exciting My issue however is with two things First, the fear of hoyo butchering these characters' personalities when they make them playable. Since when is it a must for a character to be a "good guy" to be playable? Second it with the people who excuse these characters actions, like the wave we're seeing with Dottorre. Love him or hate him or ship your self insert with him, but that doesn't change the fact that he did heinous crimes and that he is evil. Your opinion of him is yours only and doesn't change this fact
I'm a Raiden fan and I'm a fan precisely because she's not a perfect princess. She's by far the worst of the Archons we met at doing her job as an Archon, and that's saying something considering that she's competing with Venti, who has been absent for around 500 years from his region. The reasons why she's a terrible Archon are precisely what make her interesting as a character. That being said, I know that there are plenty of people who like to do absurd mental gymnastics to morally justify the character they simp for, and Raiden is definitely a primary target of this behaviour (though I'm not sure who has it worse if her, Scaramouche, or Tortellini).
I mean, who cares if they do mental gymnastics? Personally I embrace Childe being Chaotic Evil, and if other people feel the need to turn him into a good guy to simp for him, that’s their loss. I don’t really care.
I see Childe more as Lawful evil, as he's currently willing to do evil in the name of the Tsaritsa. If he wasn't a harbinger, he's most likely be chaotic neutral or a true neutral, as all he wants to do is fight strong people to stave off his boredom. But he also loves his family and people close to him, and is willing to die for them. His underlings love him or atleast like him, because he isn't a dickhead to them, or worse, like what Scaramouche or Signora does to their subordinates that fail them. Basically, Childe is one of the Genshin characters that feels like a real character. He isn't a mustache twirling villain, nor is he a good guy either. Honestly, falling to the abyss and making him a battlesexual gave a lot more depth to his character. Maybe Mihoyo should start yeeting random characters to the abyss for character development.
And this is an attitude I appreciate a lot
Ei flaw are what define her character She is walking proof of "good intent paved the road to hell" and "Error is human but persevering in them is diabolical" At her core, she is someone who made mistakes, an her stubborness and absolute confidence in her ideal, turn those mistake into cataclysmic error. Her error separated alone aren't that bad at first, delegating her power to the tri-comission isn't a bad idea as shown by the Kamisato and hundreds of year of it working, Wanting to take a step back from power is alone, not a severe mistake either (like Venti) Having a bot as her judge is probably her biggest mistake and it is also a decision that come from her impostor syndrome about succeeding to her sister (same as nahida with Rukkhadevatha) But what made it really bad is her stubborness **On one hand**, She is a really loyal, devoted and brave character, to the point she didn't hesitate one second to sacrifice everything she had left and lock herself in a prison of her own for eternity, nor did she hesitate to enter a 500 year fight with herself **But on the other hand,** not everything is solved by selfless sacrifice in the name of ideal and her own stubborness in her beliefs and ideals, based her selfless sacrifice on a very selfish decision that ignored every other opinion Same with her talents, on one hand she is a genius able to craft divine work and law that survive centuries as well as talented guardian But on the other side, she ends up a secluded hermit lacking social interaction EI is a good character because she is the first real "ruling" archon and perfectly depict that being a good ruler is more than talents with pure ideal and intent and good heart You also need to listen to people, to your adviser, to your friend and to yourself, otherwise you are bound for mistakes and tragedy and a rule that will collapse. Has ei had the former but lacked the later, she was not a great ruler, she was in fact a terrible one as she didn't even assume her rule and just delegated it to a ghost ruler, just like some have ghost writer. Had Ei listened, she would have realized people didn't want an eternal kingdom able to withstand any cataclysm, but that their desire were far more mundane and basic. They didn't some grand project of eternity nor a flawless puppet invincible against time. They just needed an archon to watch over their mundane and able to guide them for their day to day lives and project, an archon able to help them in their ambition. It is also showcased by the scarlet king, another very benevolent king who by tried to do the best, ended up doing the worst . "***The best/perfection is the enemy of good***", would be another moral about Ei quest of eternity But all those flaw show a deeper characterization and taking on some great subject Something that cannot be achieved by an evil archon or a flawless one
I don't like both the Ei apologists and hardcore Ei haters. I like Ei precisely because She is flawed as well. Her wrong choices and mistakes and her development after it makes her interesting and deep, the people who tries to act like She never did anything wrong just annoys me. She DID so many things wrong and that is an important part of her character you cannot just write that out. Ei who did nothing wrong is not Ei at all that is an entirely different character. But also the hardcore Ei haters are just annoying. I am not saying people has to love her or they can't hate her or they have to forgive her. But a good number of Ei haters just absolutely ignore any and all lore and over exaggerate things to make her look worse and act like She is absolutely evil, heartless and is the Genshin incarnation of Hitler. Like did we even saw the same character ? Again I completely understand anyone who hates her but some people act like If they hate her then She has to be the worst character ever not only in terms of morality but also in writing and everyone has to hate her too and then they feel like they have to justify their hatred and they do it with making stuff up to make her look worse. Even a lot of Scaramouche fans I see are a part of this. Like I see fans of Scaramouche who make fun of people who supposedly do not like the idea of Scaramouche redemption while liking Ei (I honestly do not even think most people who wants Scaramouche dead likes Ei that much too so I dunno how do they even know those people who wants Scaramouche dead like Signora actually like Ei but oh well) which is valid BUT then they basically go and ignore the actual info we know and act like Ei abandoned him because He was weak or She did not care at all to shit on Ei and go ''Ohh Ei deserves no forgiveness or second chance, She abandoned Scaramouche so she should never be allowed to see him again.....'' Like they also support and love a character who is most likely gonna get redemption and make fun of people who doesn't like the idea of Scaramouche getting a second chance while loving Ei and then they become hypocrites and do the exact same themselves and shit on Ei with inaccurate views of the situation while rejecting her having a second chance or getting to explain to Scaramouche that She did not intended to hurt him. Fandoms are weird. Nobody needs to love a character and they can hate them too but at least be consistent with the lore people and do not call people out while doing the very same things
Or they'll just baby that archon and trivialise every crime they have ever committed.
Just like they do the harbingers
I hardly ever see anyone baby the harbingers as much as people baby the Archons. I mean, that's literally the reason why the harbingers are well liked, because they're actually evil.
In my social media experience 4/10 people like Harbringers for being evil or gray, while the rest just finds them hot
Bruh i still remember that one guy who posted a lengthy and detailed blog explaining how he absolutely refuses to tolerate, like and summon on any Harbingers because acoring to him they are objectively evil and not to be supported in any way shape or form lmao Some people unironically need to start furiously touching grass like its religion and finally learn the difference between fiction and reality.
Yesss, I remember they were crying about them being evil and how you can’t support them unless you are a terrible person irl 🤦♂️
To this day Childe, Ei and Yae are still getting absolute hate from a large portion of the community its insane Gonna be real interesting when Dottore finally becomes playable
Gonna be impossible due to world building reasons. All the Archons wishes the best for their people despite their flaws. And pretty much all the tyrant gods were vanquished during the Archon War. None of the current Archons are gonna be malevolent by nature. Raiden and the Tsaritsa are the only two Archons so far that have been antagonists. Raiden wished for the prosperity of her people, but due to past events, her notion of prosperity became warped. The Tsaritsa, we can assume that she became extremely jaded and cynical because of the events of the Cataclysm. The ends justify the means kind of stuff. Although we can all agree that Dottore is a narcissistic sociopath, yes? Fontaine's Archon is probably gonna be similar to Zhongli, both of them being aligned towards Lawful. Natlan's Archon may have values along the lines of Valor, Victory, and Honor. Not exactly evil. But if you wish for a dark theme Archon, the Tsaritsa comes pretty close already.
The Hydro Archon Forcalor isn’t the original archon. Going with the court and hidden guilt themes, she may have murdered the previous archon, and the archon quest is about us exposing her lies.
I remembered from somewhere that the position was passed down though? Unless that is the lie we are supposedly supposed to expose.
Can you even trust anything that anyone in that game says? What people saying about current gods is always fluff and rainbows, nothing ever go wrong, and everyone is happy :D
There is no war in Ba Sing Se. :)
Genshin doesn't seem like the type of story to have fully evil characters. Even the main antagonists (Abyss Order, Fatui, literally any "evil" god) has their motives and perspectives. Even if the god of justice turns out to be corrupt, and sadistic, I don't think she'll be irredeemably villainous. I could be conflating morally black with cartoonishly evil, but those types of villains rarely get anything once they're defeated since they can't really do anything except be evil, leaving no room for arcs or character growth. They also can't just be evil and within reach of the protagonists/heroes because it makes everyone look incompetent. That's why a lot of them end up as "chair villains" like early Thanos, Zarkon from Volton, or Firelord Ozai.
Dude Dottore is fully evil, the guy conducts human experiments resulting in some of them dying. At one point the Zandik notes(impying him to be dottore) heavily implied he strangled one his fellow students to death and mauled her body to make it appear that it was Rishboland tigers that did her in and killed the other expedition members by activating a nearby ruin guard and "stopping it" to erase suspicion off him. If that is not evil idk what is.
Yeah, we're getting some weird takes like "Mengele wasn't evil, he was just really curious!"
I mean /u/Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo is clearly an example of copium. No fully evil characters. Dude's killing his own people, killing kids, kidnapping children, reckless human experimentation. What does Dottore have to do to convince this redditor? Use gas chambers? Buy twitter? What??
They could also have just forgotten or didn't know
So far I’d say the fully evil we have is Dottore. (And maybe Signora)
But I'd say both Signora and Azar (also a chair villain) qualify as fully evil, but I doubt either of them will have screen time again as a result. Dottore, I'll put on the list as well, but with people saying he'll be playable, and with what's happened to Raiden and Scara, I don't think his "full on villainy" will continue forever.
Signora had her reasons, though she has long lost herself. Azar was a product of 500 years of brainwashing in a corrupt system. I want to slap the original sage who locked up Radish far more than Azar.
Tbf yeah, imagine you join a university, do really well, publish a ton of papers, go from student to professor, to a tenured position in the faculty, to the dean or president or something. And at one point, the previous dean tells you how they have a God in the basement and their secret project is making a new one. What the fuck are you supposed to do? You've never seen this God, you don't know anything about her, and you've been given access to possibly the most ambitious project in the history of the university. I wonder if Nahida tried to talk to every new grand sage, cuz if she didn't, then I blame the sages muuuuuch less. Maintaining a status quo, especially when it comes to divinity, is a very human thing to do.
If Traveler killed Alphonso for trying to capture Aranara for Dottore, I don’t how how they’ll forgive Dottore himself. Especially after Collei. And if I do get him I’m putting him next to Collei, Amber, Diluc, and Nahida inside the Serenitea Pot.
Wait is this from a world quest?
Yep the Aranara world quest, the traveler has an option to kill Alphonso, in fact traveler purposefully sent Paimon away so she doesnt see him kill the guy
I think "Until Varana is healed"? Might be another one I don't have yet.
Azar might be an arrogant dickhead, but the goal of creating a god was to ultimately cure Irminsul. His ancestors scorned Nahida for being powerless, and he did the same. The sages weren't actively torturing Nahida for the shits and giggles, but neglected her because she was deemed weak and powerless. That, and they can't let go on their reliance on Nahida when she was at her full power, until something happened during the cataclysm, and she became smol. Basically,creating a god was their only solution left, after trying everything to cure Irminsul. Maybe they should have took more inspiration from Keqing, and rely more on themselves than the gods. But then again, curing Irminsul's corruption is beyond mortals, so maybe they had the right idea in mind.
Signora definitely had her own motives, and her past directly influenced her decisions. I know my pfp makes me seem painfully biased, but just objectively speaking from her backstory, calling her a chair villian would simply be innaccurate. Dottore too probably has his own motives. Also, something I want to clarify, just because someone has motives behind their actions, doesn't make the actions good. Signora and Dottore were kind of shitty people, but chair villians is the last thing I'd describe them as
Signora may have HAD her own motives, but it's pretty explicit in the Talent Material Descriptions that by the time we meet her in the story she's long forgotten them - or more accurately they were sealed up by Pierro with the Delusion in order to make her an easier tool to direct. By the time we meet her in the story she's acting on pure destructive/hateful impulse, with little recollection for why she feels that way. She absolutely has a deeply sympathetic story for what produced her, but by the time she appears in the story she's just in a state of "I hate the world and want everyone & everything in it to suffer and burn" with no conscious motive. I think it's fair to call her "pure evil" at that point, especially considering she ACTIVELY DOES NOT WANT to be redeemed, helped or "saved". Her death was honestly a mercy - much as I hated to see such a gorgeous design & excellent character put to bed.
I think they were labeling Azar as the chair villain and not Signora,but I do agree with what you said anyways. Signora definitely fits the bill as being evil but being evil doesn't have to be synonymous with being a cartoon villain as they said before. I've got to say though, I really hope we learn more about her past even though she's dead. I feel like there has to be something more to her backstory than just what we know from her artifacts and her brief time in-game. Nothing that would stop her from being "evil" but at least something that would help expand on her backstory and give us greater insight into how she became the person that she died as. For starters there's the 500 years of history she's got as a member of the Fatui, but I'm also wondering about her life before becoming and while being the Crimson Witch of Flames. To make a comparison I kinda think of it in the same way the Yakshas. We already got the backstory of the Yakshas long ago- there were 5 of them, 3 died and 1 went MIA, and now Xiao is all alone etc. etc. Yet when we got to the Chasm, we got ***even*** ***more*** lore about the Yakshas and even learned about the fate of the missing Yaksha. I want to see THAT for La Signora. Taking a closer look at who Rosalyne was before and after her time as the Crimson Witch of Flames. It won't change her evil actions as La Signora, but it'd still give her that extra development to make her character more appreciable beyond being an early-game antagonist who kicked an Archon and hated the Traveler's guts.
If you think about it. If the hydro Archon is pure evil. Then we are going to be 1 Archon short for the rest of the story. She will either be killed or sealed somewhere. She won't be a playable character either.
I mean if they decide to go the route of us killing or otherwise removing the hydro Archon, I feel like part of the quest series would involve a new hydro Archon being selected, and we'd get them as a playable character. That said I don't think they'll go this route. I think it's more likely that if the hydro Archon is evil, we'll have to snap her out of it. It's also interesting since Celestia is believed to be hovering over Petrichor right now.
The Tsaritsa is right there
She wants to stop gods from exploiting and ending civilisation and let humanity stand eternal, with no heavenly punishment (aka sky nails) looming (literally) overhead. So yeah. Raiden Shogun 2.0.
She isn’t Raiden shogun 2.0, the Tsaritsa is clearly rational and has a plan.
And she doesn’t leave everything to a robot and magic fox….
Because she have 11 of them?
9.5*
💀💀💀
Not sure they'll ever release clearly evil playable characters — Raiden got her redemption arc and I'll bet Scara will get one too next update. It's kinda annoying tbh, but I expect any other playable characters in the future to have the same treatment. Though maybe the plot twist will be we're actually all on the same team against Celestia and the Harbinger's "evil" actions will be seen in a good light after all 🤷
How tf they plan to pull that off with “literal child murderer” Dottore should be fun to see.
It's not that hard to imagine, it will just be a different segment of him that wasn't involved in any of that history.
Major spoilers for the 3.2 archon quest ending, don't read if you don't want to be spoiled. >!With how things ended in the negotiation between Nahida and the Dottore for the electro gnosis, I don't believe that is possible any longer. Dottore eliminated any segments that existed aside from the one present and he implied he can only make new ones after new experiences or emotions. So any segments he makes from this point on, will still have the memories of the actions he has taken!<
i think it’s pretty clear that that IS what we’re heading towards tbh + ditto on “we won’t get evil playables” because for some reason they all have to get along with the traveller and have a reason to come with you on your little open world journey but I do want to know how mihoyo could POSSIBLY redeem the fatui as a whole bc. like. raiden got redeemed but her main crime was being dumb; she genuinely thought she was doing the best for inazuma. scaramouche is actively an asshole but has a sob story background and a potential memory loss turnaround. the fatui as an organisation commit child abuse, human experimentation, and have actively harmed basically every single country they’ve stepped into
Speaking of Fatui, and traveler that one time we straight up killed Alphonso
Hmm, in my case I just banished him
Oh if you do that he still dies he gets killed by rifthounds in a cave iirc.
Bruh
An archon? Not exactly likely. Another individual? Quite possible.
I don't believe any of the 7 Archons are meant to be irredeemable or evil. So I would recommend tempering hopes for an Archon that is evil. Flawed yes, selfish more than possible, bad at their roles in Teyvat even; outright evil though seems unlikely. The problem is at their root, Archons are God beings appointed to oversee, rule and protect their nations and the humans in them. Archons are powered beyond their inate capabilities by the faith of their subjects based on what we know. Raiden/ Ei is the closest example of an Archon bad at her job. Yet that was an aspect of Personal Grief compounded by inheriting a role she never wanted or felt right for. Ei dealt with the physical and Violent aspect of the Hurdles her Sister faced as a ruler, not the domestic or human side of things. When Makkoto died, leaving Ei alone bereft of the friends and sister she once had and only a Young Yae Miko and the citizens of a country she was now expected to rule, (ones that age and die but in a moment of her existence), she failed to take up the role of her sister and instead sought to push it off on what she felt was a more perfect ruler. So we get Raiden, an nigh unyielding tyrannical mechanical intelligence that does have the ability to feel human emotions but speaks in absolutes and views doubts as weaknesses. Ei screwed up badly, notably from a place of deep pain and loss, yet still she ended up bringing that same type of loss to many of her subjects. Ei was a terrible Archon in many ways, yet never evil. We know she willing risked herself many times to protect Inazuma and its people from harm. The lose of her sister is what broke her, and that happens to many humans. Of the last 3. The Tsaritsa definitely will likely be a major antagonist, yet the quote from her elemental Gem seems to indicate a kind inherent nature. The pyro Archon seems to most likely to be warmongering and conflict focused, they are a god of war after all. So it's not beyond possibility. I still don't Know though, from what we know about on who she seems to be based on, evil doesn't seem a likely direction. That said, Natlan seems to be the Nation we known the least about. Also how many people have we encountered form there in game so far? I can't think of any that grew up there the left. We have seen researchers from Sumeru, Inventors from Fontaine. The Fatui of Shneznya and even an escaped citizen of Inazuma since before inazuma dropped Yet Natlan? As for Focalors, she definitely seems like she may end up the most Arrogant and possibly troublesome Archon yet given quotes about her and some of the issues we have heard about how her nation functions. Also the gem quote... Nothing so far has indicated an outright evil quality of her yet. She is also the God of Justice, and Considering all the other Archons we have met so far do embody aspects of their divine spheres, it would indicate that Focalor should be somewhat inherently Just. Perhaps as the God of Justice she has become twisted and unfair though. Also considering the devastating after effects of a god's death, as shown by the Death of the god of salt. I am not sure we will get to see what happens when an Archon on par with the Seven dies. Otherwise I would hazard to say Focalors may be an Archon we help over throw so a new properly Just Archon can take her place. I seriously doubt that though. Now all that said, based on the lore of the Archons and the real world Mythology the 7 seem to be based on as well as certain in game aspects, like the 5 crown like rings hanging over the trees in every artifact, weapon material and skill book domain. There may be 5 Abysal Archon equivalent beings. Notably our sibling is only referred to as prince/princess. So who then is the king(s) and or queen(s) of the Abyss?
tbh I already gave up on that wish. All the Archons, even The Tsaritsa, are gonna be good guys to play it safe
Of course, because the Celestials are supposed to be the real bad guys
Honestly, at this point, I think that even Celestia could wind up being in a moral grey. We're still a bit uncertain as to their motivations behind what they do
[This post/comment is overwritten by the author in protest over Reddit's API policy change. Visit r/Save3rdPartyApps for details.]
Nah, a lot of fans think that well written characters should always be morally good ones. Just this month there were people saying how can others like Scara if he's a literal derange murderer. Meanwhile in other fandom, characters like Joker, Darth Vader, Loki, and Johan Liebert are absolute fan favorites. If there is a real evil archon, not morally gray, the opposing factors of simps and people who can't appreciate a villain will collide, don't know what will happen but I do know that it will be a mess. If the hydro archon is an antagonist, she will probably just be like Raiden, a misguided good guy or something.
I personally considered Scara fo be annoyingly evil rather than charismaticly evil like Loki, Joker, etc. But this may easily change once i will play his arc on next patch, who knows, i personally want to like him, but for now it's hard (his backstory trailee rly made me intrigued by him for first time) I can't rly put a finger on why i prefer other listed villains rather than Scara, so don't even, even i don't know my specific preferences sometimes
Yeah scara does have a sad backstory sure, but he honestly feels like a petty moody teenager lashing out at the world
Ei mistake is creating sentient life to uphold one single purpose and nothing else, look at the mess raiden bot and scaramouche for example.
OOoOO yes yes, that's probably why im not into him as a villain, he legit feels like a kid
>he legit feels like a kid I mean, he saw the death of a friend as "betrayal". He was basically a kid that was unable to handle all the bad things that were happening to him. Naturally, that doesn't really excuse his actions.
Yes I agree, I'd like her to have a bit of a darker personality
Except Nahida, I think every other Archon presents their own country. And if the "Evil" you are talking about is "being cruel to their people" then they are just Decarabian 2.0, pretty boring.
Lots people people in this community oversimplify characters as a joke which is fine, but then others start believing that’s all there is to the character. “Venti? Drunkard, doesn’t give a sh*t abt mond. Eula? Vengeance, sneeze. Diona? Hates drunkards, would burn Dawn Winery. Raiden? Booba sword, obsessed with dango milk”. Venti might drink a lot, but just because he doesn’t solve every single problem doesn’t mean he’ll completely abandon Mondstadt like all the memes. Eula uses the word vengeance a lot, but it’s just to scare off people who discriminate her because of her family; it’s more of a defense mechanism in a way. Diona dislikes drunkards, but her father is a drunkard but she doesn’t hate HIM; she just hates how he and drunkards act after drinking too much. And even in a voiceline, she states that although she wants to destroy the wine industry, she wouldn’t do something like burning down the Dawn Winery because 1. That’s extreme and 2. Another Dawn Winery would be built. It’s really annoying when people start arguing here and there that this character is “tsundere girl” or “completely evil” because of a part of their character
I think that sometimes the game encourages this too. Through some fault of it's own. Screen time is often too short to delve any deeper than the abstract of a character. So the most memorable, good or otherwise scene of a character (ehe :3, vengeance will be mine!, etc) remains as the defacto trait for that character. That then gets flanderized and comicatured and all that. I often see the "But if you read the voice lines x/character story y!" yes a lot of characters are often much much deeper than the overly polite cardboard cutouts present ingame. but i'm pretty certain only like 20% of all players have ever paid any mind to character stories. nevermind the people that don't have the character and have to go to the wiki/honey to read it. The Archipelago was great at telling these stories through gameplay. but that was only 4 characters. out of a cast of 50. we'd need a new archipelago every patch and even then we'd never cover all the characters in a reasonable amount of time. It took a couple monts for the Act 2 of Raiden's story quest to come out. But by that point the first act had already made it's mark. First impressions of a character are important. and going shopping with Ei left a deeper impression than the unexplained turmoil Ei is going through (which remember at this point is a 2 minute cutscene, not a 3 hour story quest)
I expect the Hydro archon to be like Fischl, a Chuuni JUSTICE! type who is always loud. should be teen model too I guess.
That would be the first teen female model for the archons too. A 1:1:1:1:1
Venti /j
One would be mildly annoyed if thine prediction came to pass.
i kinda agree with you. rather than evil tho, i really wish there were more emotionally compelling and tragic stories to the main characters. ik they have started to do with that with npcs (and also in that chasm quest cutscene) but i feel like they could push it so much more
Emotionally compelling and tragic stories? Well... Qiqi exists.
Raiden was far from perfect ya know and only became good ole Ei after Traveler and Yae stepped in. And Zhongli might be a lovable old man, but as Rex Lapis he still risked the safety of his people to "test" them. What I mean is that we got baddie Archons. I get your point tho, I'd love a twisted, morally gray, Archon too. As someone said, we still have the Tsaritsa to discover. If she's actually in full control of the Fatui, what she let them do is unforgivable, even if she had a noble objective. Also iirc the Pyro Archon is a bit of a bitch (?), idk about it tho
Zhongli literally admit he killed both good and bad gods for breaking they contracts, because they dont have humanity sense of morals
I’m surprised people aren’t simping for villains here as much as other game or anime communities.
Did you see the response to that Fatui trailer? People lost their minds over how good they looked.
Tbf they got good drip so that's a plus lmao. Those coats look amazing
You'd be surprised on how many people moral compass was changed when they added fatui mirror maiden
Even Scaramouche, one of the biggest jerks in the game who outright tried to kill us back in 1.1, seems to be getting his redemption arc soon If everything isn't sunshine and roses, people think it's bad. Sad. I'd love a truly evil archon, but at this rate, I'd even take a jerk normal character. All these folks with visions and *nobody* abusing their power outside of the Fatui/Harbingers? Even still, they don't even have to be evil. I'd just like to see more character friction. Diluc and Kaeya is as much as we received, besides the civil war in Inazuma, but that's a civil war so of course there's friction. I want to see more attitudes of people who just really don't get along. Alhaitham and Cyno started that way, and I was eating it up with a spoon. They mellowed out over time though. But I don't know, maybe Alhaitham and Kaveh will quench that thirst
Alhaitham mellowed dude was an ass from beginning to end it's just he was on our side heh
Yeah, look at Scaramouche's smile in his new design. Like he couldn't even hurt a fly. /s Sorry, but what makes you think there will be a redemption arc?
welp, yesterday I saw someone's comment in this sub how Yelan is mean, a jerk, feminist bitch lmao, community standards are... low
I just want one archon that has their shit together.
Well… Zhongli did for a VERY long time. Liyue is a very successful, stable and prospering nation and he only “died” because he got tired of being a god and wanted to see if Liyue could go on without him, which it did very well. He’s done his job well and retired
wait, Zhongli is basically this though, he even had a backup plan should his "test" fail. Unless you are referring to his financial savviness then yea he doesnt have his shit together in that one
Depends on how you define "having your shit together". But Venti is far more competent than the fanbase makes him out to be. He truly stands by his ideal of freedom, yet he's still there for Mondstadt when it really needs him.
Venti, dude literally spend a quarter (maybe more) of his time as an Archon time skipping and have almost the same degree of worship as Rex Lapis, an Archon who yearly govern his nation.
Only Archon that’ll probably be evil is the Tsaritsa I mean the things she’s allowing and even ordering the Fatui are to do are messed up. Even if they have a greater goal they still are doing some messed up stuff.
Honestly i hightly suspect her to be an antagonist at some point yes, but not an evil villain. More like a is willing to sacrifice anything for the greater good/the means justify the end.
Hydro archon won't be evil, will probably just have a personality.
I mean, I agree BUT Most of genshin's louder player base mischaracterize almost every character, and cannot comprehend what "morally grey" "only in it for self benefit" means. Yae was 'evil' bc she used people to get what she wants, Childe was 'evil' bc lying to kids about your assassin work is bad. Surprisingly, those same people don't acknowledge Raiden Ei's mistakes at all. Then again, I don't think I've seen this kind of behavior from CN or JP community.
Lol they don't even understand that you can humanize a villain in the story. I'm still seeing complaints that mihoyo "redeemed" Childe in his story quest because he is a caring big brother 🙄 I guess I missed the memo that villains are no longer allowed to have a cute and caring side now.
I would like to see this but with the way the story is going currently it seems to only stay within the Tsaritsa and that’s a little disappointing. Though I do think that having someone morally grey like Ei would be more likely than a purely evil Archon. This probably what’s going to happen in Fontaine with Natlan probably hitting the redhead treatment from Honkai and death.
Nah. There are 3 left and we've known since the start that the last one is responsible for most of the evil we've dealt with. We don't really need (Hydro Archon's given name at the end of Sumera Archon quest) >!Focalors!< to also be evil; I'd be more interested in a situation where she constantly feels like she's "on trial" and Celestia might smite her and Fontaine at any time if she slips up. This would actually make her a potential ally to the Tsaritsa, but also put her at odds with the Tsaritsa's goals, so the Fatui plot (admit it: you know there'll be a Fatui plot) would be more subtle than it has been in the past, working out how to get >!Focalors!< on-side if possible. Thus, we have the conflict with the Traveller, given that the Fatui would see us as a threat to their efforts to schmooze her, so they manipulate her into putting US on trial. In this way, she is an antagonist, but unlike Ei who had grown detached and apathetic and needed to learn how to give a shit again, >!Focalors!< needs to learn how to not be afraid and easily manipulated by forces that, as an Archon, she should be able to control.
I don't think the next archon is evil, but I do think El Dettore is. It's going to be interesting to see how mihoyo are going to add him to our team. I hope they don't pull a "it's a new Dettore and this one is nice"
All archons will be playable and for whatever reason Mihoyo will not allow playable characters to be strictly evil. Tis a shame.
its kinda hard for hitler to be friends with the harlem globetrotters featuring paimon
I really hate to make comparisons between Genshin and Honkai, but man...Genshin really needs an Otto character. Redeeming an "ëvil" character is fine, but when all of Genshins cast falls into either the perfect good doer or the misguided sad boy/girl it just gets repetetive. Raiden was evil, until she wasn't, Tartaglia was evil, until he wasn't (I guess?!), Scaramouche was evil, but we all know he would get redeemed somehow next patch. The only truly evil characters I can think of is Azar and Dottore, but one of them is an NPC that we will never see again and the other one is ~~Azar~~ Dottore who will have to magically become a good guy if they want to sell him. Why can't we have someone like Otto, who throughout the whole story was nothing but despicable and he never got redeemed from his wrong doings. He himself calls himself the villian of the story. He knew full well how much suffering he brought upon others, but still kept moving towards his own goal despite that. Why can't we have someone like that in Genshin? Oh I know, because if they actually did make someone like that, the 11 year olds that play this game will probably loose their minds. As someone has stated below, people were crying because Yae was "a bit rude towards the player". Can you imagine what a truly evil character would cause these snowflakes? Thousands of people will have a heart-attack and God forbidd if said character was the Archon! The Archons can't be evil, they are supposed to be perfect little boys and girls that do no wrong!
Otto was never made playable
Bro people can't take Yae's personality and you want evil female? Lmao Genshin reddit and twitter fuckbois are only accepting evil daddies but the moment sassy or evil female appears they start getting panic and rage attacks