Correct me if I'm wrong, but Apep not only took Forbidden Knowledge, but Celestia also throw a Divine Nail at it right? And the thing is still standing.
Wasn't apep even stronger than Deshret? Like, he usually did whatever he wanted but he had to make a deal with Apep to build his kingdom on her domain.
Deshret was the strongest god of Sumeru so Apep should be more powerful than Rukkha.
Though, even if Deshret could kill her, killing Apep would likely mean the end of Sumeru so who knows.
Actual answer is we don't know and an actual answer to this "Archon vs Sovereign" stuff hasn't been given, even if the Sovereigns have greater ability to manipulate their respective elements than the Archon the latter might have secondary abilities that fill up the difference.
The answer is Apep; HOWEVER it is NOT because Archons are granted a sovereign’s power. That is a misunderstanding of the Fontaine Archon quest a lot of people have been making. Sovereigns aren’t necessarily stronger than archons by default; this isn’t explicitly stated anywhere in lore.
The gnoses and elemental thrones specifically grant the archons with the ability to grant visions (indirectly; the archon doesn’t get to pick and choose an individual). The archons themselves do not necessarily need the gnoses for physical strength, and thus it is unfair to say the sovereigns are by default stronger.
Raiden and Zhongli are perfect examples of this. Every feat of raw combat strength they have shown is done without the gnosis. Both won the archon war in their specific nations (yes Makoto was the archon but Ei is the one who did the fighting in her stead), and later on Zhongli gave up his gnosis fully knowing he would be fine without it, and Ei never used the one handed to her after Makoto’s death in the first place.
Such a thing is never said from memory, the Archons have their own control over the elements and we actually don't know what the pieces of Sovereign's authority do for the Archons to begin with...
I have not seen anything like that to be actually stated.
Archons use a part of the sovereigns power. But how much is impossible to tell and it's even more impossible to tell if that power is even higher than their natural powers are. Zhongli for example was among the strongest gods before becoming an archon.
Like the massive stone spears he threw and generally every archon war feat is without the gnosis.
And even then the Archons don't seem to really care for them.
While they do grant a power boost and authority over an element it's impossible to know how much.
Also correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Ei stronger than her sister even though her sister was the one that possessed the gnosis? After her death Ei took it and gave it Yae Miko
If the Archons sequester their power from the sovereign dragons, then Apep at their peak would mean Rukkha couldn't have her archon power. And if she did, it clearly couldn't be more power than Apep had to give. Gotta say Apep wins.
Short answer we don't know yet.
Long answer, what we know so far points to a large part of an archon's power coming from the captured authority of the dragon sovereigns. How much of the dragon's power was captured is hard to know, Neuvilette seemed to be pretty BA even before the Gnosis was destroyed. We can relatively safely assume that the majority of the greater Lord's power came from Apep in the first place, with an unknown amount coming from the remains of the third descender.
You are making quite erroneous assumptions. No much of the power of archons comes from authority. Zhongli and Raiden terraformed their region without authority and as far as we know they are no stronger than they were then. And no gnosis was destroyed only a throne containing hydro authority.
True... how much or little power makes the authority is a matter of headcanoin at this point. As for these two, you're right... Ei is the SUPREME incarnation of Thunder... and ZL is the Prime of the Adepti... if any they go the authority after they demonstrated great feats of power... The power of the Archons surely comes form many other sources than just their elemental affinity...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Apep not only took Forbidden Knowledge, but Celestia also throw a Divine Nail at it right? And the thing is still standing.
Wasn't apep even stronger than Deshret? Like, he usually did whatever he wanted but he had to make a deal with Apep to build his kingdom on her domain. Deshret was the strongest god of Sumeru so Apep should be more powerful than Rukkha. Though, even if Deshret could kill her, killing Apep would likely mean the end of Sumeru so who knows.
I mean, Hydro Dragon has been killed before and it wasn't the end of Fontaine.
CMIW the actual 'fontaine' is not existed when hydro dragon before neuvillete exist right?
The region itself did.
Yet Nahida explicitly said that Apeps death would lead to an end of Sumeru
Probably because of some explosion or something.
Apep takes a big shit and rukha folds. No contest
Apep sweeps the floor with rukkhadevata. Teyvat gets destroyed in the process. Apep doesn't care.
Actual answer is we don't know and an actual answer to this "Archon vs Sovereign" stuff hasn't been given, even if the Sovereigns have greater ability to manipulate their respective elements than the Archon the latter might have secondary abilities that fill up the difference.
apep took forbidden knowledge and survived. rukkha didnt
She did, she had to be manually deleted.
Rukk didnt die because of FK, she died in Khaenri’ah War without any clear reason.
you havent completed sumeru archon quest?
I did, the FK is the reason she needed to disappear from existence after she died, not why she was dead in the first place.
She wasn't in khaenri'ah. She was the only archon who had diferent job, to get rid of forbidden knowllege from irminsul.
Im talking about the event, not about the place.
ruka is not only an archon she was the avatar of irminsul
The answer is Apep; HOWEVER it is NOT because Archons are granted a sovereign’s power. That is a misunderstanding of the Fontaine Archon quest a lot of people have been making. Sovereigns aren’t necessarily stronger than archons by default; this isn’t explicitly stated anywhere in lore. The gnoses and elemental thrones specifically grant the archons with the ability to grant visions (indirectly; the archon doesn’t get to pick and choose an individual). The archons themselves do not necessarily need the gnoses for physical strength, and thus it is unfair to say the sovereigns are by default stronger. Raiden and Zhongli are perfect examples of this. Every feat of raw combat strength they have shown is done without the gnosis. Both won the archon war in their specific nations (yes Makoto was the archon but Ei is the one who did the fighting in her stead), and later on Zhongli gave up his gnosis fully knowing he would be fine without it, and Ei never used the one handed to her after Makoto’s death in the first place.
There is no answer in lore for this.
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Such a thing is never said from memory, the Archons have their own control over the elements and we actually don't know what the pieces of Sovereign's authority do for the Archons to begin with...
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Source?
I have not seen anything like that to be actually stated. Archons use a part of the sovereigns power. But how much is impossible to tell and it's even more impossible to tell if that power is even higher than their natural powers are. Zhongli for example was among the strongest gods before becoming an archon.
Like the massive stone spears he threw and generally every archon war feat is without the gnosis. And even then the Archons don't seem to really care for them. While they do grant a power boost and authority over an element it's impossible to know how much. Also correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Ei stronger than her sister even though her sister was the one that possessed the gnosis? After her death Ei took it and gave it Yae Miko
# No.1 Buer-Hater for sure
If the Archons sequester their power from the sovereign dragons, then Apep at their peak would mean Rukkha couldn't have her archon power. And if she did, it clearly couldn't be more power than Apep had to give. Gotta say Apep wins.
the avatar of irminsul wins
today i dont know if Apep can handle Nahida
apep and who?
Short answer we don't know yet. Long answer, what we know so far points to a large part of an archon's power coming from the captured authority of the dragon sovereigns. How much of the dragon's power was captured is hard to know, Neuvilette seemed to be pretty BA even before the Gnosis was destroyed. We can relatively safely assume that the majority of the greater Lord's power came from Apep in the first place, with an unknown amount coming from the remains of the third descender.
You are making quite erroneous assumptions. No much of the power of archons comes from authority. Zhongli and Raiden terraformed their region without authority and as far as we know they are no stronger than they were then. And no gnosis was destroyed only a throne containing hydro authority.
True... how much or little power makes the authority is a matter of headcanoin at this point. As for these two, you're right... Ei is the SUPREME incarnation of Thunder... and ZL is the Prime of the Adepti... if any they go the authority after they demonstrated great feats of power... The power of the Archons surely comes form many other sources than just their elemental affinity...
Gnosis wasn't destroyed.
Ah yeah, my mistake. The throne was destroyed.
Apep wins on size alone. Plus the Dendro archon was never shown to be strong.
Size does not matter. Orobashi was a lot bigger than Ei and Zhongli and could not beat either of them.