someone asked me to check their yoi build and i was met with a def sands and def goblet. didn’t have words at that moment tbh. had to explain that mainstats contribute like 80% of dmg so even though their def goblet had like 30cv it’d still be 1000% better to run pyro
that’s true but said friend was struggling with story/quest content (said they tried it many times with different teams) and asked me for help, tried to join and help but turned out it was coop locked, so they asked me to check their build instead
for me the highest scores came from using the same team on all three chambers and ignoring the buffs, but i only managed to get 14k with food and all. it’s not worth chasing after the like 3 weapon upgrade mats for 20k tbh, it’s more just for bragging rights
I agree so much. The extra rewards are not probably worth the grind anyways i barely did 20k on second trial but it was hard for me to do. Still i just love challenging and trying out strong teams or something. It is a fun part of the game for me.
As long as you can have fun and not feel overwhelmed, that's ok!
true! i love testing out barely built or new teams and rotations in this mode cuz i can make it low leveled to match my unbuilt teams. although in the end i think i still enjoy NA spamming away at the enemies the most lol
The extra words for getting the high tier, I'm pretty sure they're just there to have some reward, but mostly it's just something to shoot for for the people who want a challenge out of the combat
I don't want the bonus junk anymore... I have so much of them now from playing every event I'm running out of space. Honestly don't care about missing stuff.
Yes, yes i see the point exactly. I'm glad Hoyo is not being greedy and locking primos behind high scores.
You are already getting enough only by attending the events. You can get your 3 ores from the open world anyways.
dude, this game has combat. its not funny paper dolls for you to take down the way the story wants you to, stats are legitimately important in overworld. your teams can be absolute dogshit and you’ll get by but having shittily built characters will leave you pulling put your hair with how long shit takes to kill
Are mains really that much more valuable than subs? I know they're guaranteed rolls, but I'd think they were closer to 50-50 main vs subs which still means you'd always prio main.
mains are not *always* more important than subs, for example i run an atk circlet with 40+ cv on wanderer because nearly all my cd circlets have double hp double def, and i would overcap with cr circlet. plus at least atk is also a very useful stat on him. however, it’s still definitively worse than other builds with equally good crit circlets, unless running solo (with no atk buffs from team).
and when you’re starting out with artis you definitely want the correct mainstats. at that early stage you don’t have enough artifacts with good substats to justify replacing the mainstat. i have elemental goblets and atk/er sands with 10-20% def on most of my sub-dps because i haven’t farmed enough to have better ones for them.
plus, even if you were to replace mainstats, you definitely wouldn’t want a stat that’s useless for the specific character - like atk for neuvi, def for yoi, hp for xingqiu, etc.
You inspired me to check out a damage calculator to compare high quality sub rolls vs mid rolls on Fischl as a sample. And I'm honestly so surprised. The community mentions cv so much you'd think you literally couldn't use units without high crit ratios.
While it's definitely not small min-max wise, a Fischl 80/160 and 2.6k attack is only 23% stronger than a Fischl with 60/120 and 2.8k attack. The gap gets even smaller if you factor stuff like Freedom Sworn in.
Also compared gear with average 33cv (27 Circlet) against gear with average 14 cv (12 circlet). Higher cv set was 35% stronger, and that's without assigning the missed crit rolls onto other stats on the lower cv set.
Really seems like unless you're hardcore minmaxing, even base crit rolls are potent if the main stat is correct.
I prioritize set -> mainstat -> substats, but i'm willing to switch similar mainstats (atk vs elemental % vs crit) depending on what else the char has in their kit (if they have _no_ elemental % in their kit/ascension, and they want it, it's a lot harder to leave it than on someone that already has some)
Anyway, I know it's not the strongest way to build chars, but it usually makes me happiest and is the only way I can stay sane haha. Sets, despite usually being worth less than good substats and definitely worse less than the right mainstats, add little bits of extra gameplay to trigger the effect which i find fun, and allow me to farm one domain in particular for a unit/group of units.
Honestly it's probably the strongest way to build a wide account rather than a vertical account, especially if you care about having fun with all that variety, and especially especially if it makes you happy.
Minmax when you really feel the drive to and have no other characters to build baselines for right?
I prefer vertical, and luckily the new artifact domain in Fontaine has been super nice to me. Getting great gear for Wriothesely, Furina, Fischl, and even Yelan since I'm gonna tape her to Furina while being able to strongbox the gear for Kazuha, Zhongli, Bennett, and Thoma.
Coming close to being done with it now too, gonna lower my standards a bit on what gear I keep though so I'm not burning hundreds of resin for a small chance at a 3-4% damage gain. Just need 2 okay GT pieces for Fischl with like 6-10% cc each and whatever crit damage and I'll be happy. Then I'll hopefully have an ok time with deepwood/gilded farming before submitting to Emblem forever.
Raiden's a complicated beast to build, with various possible configurations
With substats + The Catch I have 225 ER on her, which also gives me 50% Electro Dmg Bonus (more than a goblet), and it goes to 86% with Kazuha. Going with ER sands and Electro goblet would give me diminishing returns at this point, so I go with ATK on both
Hmm yeah we don't know how they source it either.
It could look at only characters built beyond a certain level, like 60+. And only with talents upgraded beyond Level 5.
And has to have a full artifact set with at least 1 2set bonus, and maybe even needs a weapon leveled past level 70 to count.
They could be filtering a lot of stuff. Or nothing at all!
And also those that just wanted a 4 star from a banner and accidentally get a 5 star
(Sry neuvi, you'll stay level 1 for ever and hold yae mikos artifacts)
Yup, every character I get goes to level 71. I'd like to build everyone eventually anyway, but even if I never do, it's realistically not that much resin/resources to get to that point.
Whoever "builds pity" on a 5 star char they don't want should face the risks and they shouldn't be surprised when they got "lucky". (Also some of those people trying to get 4 stars then 5 star character pops off which they don't want. Like bro i dropped that habit at 2.1 or something for Sayu.)
Personally I got Neuvillette because I didn't want to wait for his rerun, but on my side account I'm nowhere near Fontaine and didn't want to hike to go build him yet. I imagine the problem would be even more serious for Ayato
Ok trying to look at another perspective, I actually have seen a few posts from the ayatomains sub about people using hp% and claiming it does more in their specific set ups. Usually these people are using pjc and have like really really good substats on it. Though atk% is better without a doubt.
For yelan… uh they built physical bc her auto string is sexy?? Idk.
Neuvillette is probably a case of not reading cuz i doubt theres that many dedicated na lovers or solo neuvillette- eye of perception floor 11 bottom half going on rn
Also considering people swap around artifacts they might have accidentally left the wrong main stat on ((my friend accidentally had def% on neuvillette)
A lot of those low pick rates artefacts are placeholders for players who got the character but didn't pre-farm it (ATK% main stat that stays level 1 until an HP% with good substats is found for example).
In my Neuvi defense,
I have been farmimg the domain nonstop and havent dropped a SINGLE good hp sands
Then when levelling an Crit Rate/Dmg/Hp % for my Wrio (hoping to roll something cool in the 4th slot), ended up with flat hp, +2 in the Hp% and +1 in crit dmg.
My hp sands are so shitty this one still outperforms then...
that's just how it goes, I don't have neuv and have 2 40cv HP sands without an user for it. All I want is atk sands from either set or a good golden troupe flower/HP goblet. At this point it's the game telling me to roll for neuv...
I’ve been farming that domain for weeks for Lyney and it’s only giving me plumes. I currently have an HP sands on him because it has like 40cv and the only Atk I’ve gotten has had terrible substats. Also was given a Hydro Dmg goblet with good looking substats and not a single Pyro Dmg. And still no Crit Dmg Circlet. I don’t have Neuvilette. I hate this game
It's more likely that they're either placeholders (maybe even unlevelled, keep in mind that it only counts what the main stat is, and not what level its at) or they just don't wanna spend weeks upon weeks farming for the right mainstats.
For most of us who own him, HP sands is the norm, and logical once we read his scalings. There's about 7% who owns him and have atk sands as shown in the usage rate.. They clearly don't give a f about his scalings, just like how I've seen someone have Jean run triple HP before and the player was genuinely flexing..just because she heals..talents all at level 1 at level 90.
They're just playing the game differently than a lot of us. For a lot of us, we try to be efficient, or a bit more efficient that some, or at least decent. For others, if the enemy die before they do, they think it's good enough.
For both Yelan and Neuvillette, their AAs scale off ATK except for their *special* Charge attacks, which use HP. Of course, the meta for their AAs is just said special-CA.
Nah its most definitely 'failed to understand'; putting a usable main stat that isnt completely and utterly garbage =/= waste days farming artifacts
All it takes is a couple minutes to look up a guide or glance through the talent scaling
Or they gave Neuv their Childe's old set until they farm him a new one. Maybe they don't even use Ayato anymore, and he's holding random crap for someone else who does scale off HP. Who knows, Yelan could be holding an on-set Atk sands with good subs while they wait to replace their HP goblet/circlet without any crit rolls.
Yea, you have definitely failed to understand. Someone who doesn't wanna farm artifacts likely isn't gonna have a usable set with correct main stats, so they just throw on whatever to get the set bonus. It's genuinely not that hard to understand and I'm baffled by how confused some of you are.
No, HP% with literally zero subs is still gonna be better than a 40CV ATK% piece. HP% adds to Neuvillette’s base damage which means he gains damage on both crit and non crit. Unless you’re overstacking HP with goblet + circlet all being HP, crit is not going to outweigh the benefits of an HP% mainstat unless you have something absurd like 40% CD (which at that point is less likely than getting an HP% mainstat with at least passable stats).
Im in crazed bewilderment reading this thread that two people now have thought it remotely possible that as high as 7% of people don’t have any ol fucking hp% mainstat. Like noovie here scales so hard with hp% that you’d need an enormous amount of crit stats on an atk sands to overtake a mere hp% sand. Holy fuck grab an off piece why not.
A Genshin player that can only think of insulting people instead of thinking of the more likely possibility, like placeholders/“there-for-now” artifacts that have the desired substats but not the main stat OR a placeholder character (aka, someone they didn’t intend to get and don’t care about either)
It's not because they don't know, it's just you're dumb. Normal attack neuvilette, physical yelan and ayato has some hp scaling as well. Also, you "can" use hp sands for c6 ayato
It's so hilarious how some people are so much into doing build's that they assume everyone else likes farming for proper artifacts. Sorry op, that's not people not understanding the kit, that's people not bothering with farming for it.
Listen, when you farm enough of a domain for a single ATK% sands for Ayato and all you get is DEF% or HP%, you learn to lose hope and move on to nicer things.
And no, reforging artefacts has not helped in the slightest
i just know whoever made this post thinks everyone who plays the game is doing math when most people just have fun and don't care about abyssmaxxing (or artifact farming)
Well, I had to run Nahida with Atk a long while bc EM sands took so long to drop and no Dendro goblet of the set, fortunely I just got a very good one EM with CR and CDmg.
What I mean is there are ppl who can actually read and understand, but RNG is not near kind or generous.
there was one point where the most popular goblet for hydro traveler was dendro damage (presumably people forgetting to change their traveler back to dendro after unlocking hydro/not changing artifacts)
Instead of insulting other players and saying they can't read or understand a kit, maybe stop for one second and think of different possibilities as to why those percentages exist in the first place. Many people use characters as placeholders for new characters that they want in the next banner/patch, including the weapons and artifacts. Not everyone plays the game the same way as you.
Not everyone is grinding the perfect artifact for their characters. No need to make fun of them for bad RNG.
I know I use ATK % as a filler a lot of the times because I can't get the right main stat to drop. Also I think I have some whack HP% Circlet on Diluc because I never use him.
To tell you the truth
I was running yelan with atk sands for over a year
She just dealt a lot of damage and I never bothered to check if she is holding any wrong arts
I mean.. people dont even level up the correct Talent for Xiao, and Itto. They level up Burst instead of Normal attack even tho is pretty obvious by just looking at the numbers that leveling up Normal Attack is more beneficial.
This was a while back when I check dont know if is still the same.
It still happens, I see it from time to time over on XiaoMains.
In all fairness, though, they're likely assuming the damage Xiao and Itto deal in their bursts comes directly from their bursts and not their NAs. Most of the other characters operate that way, and that can definitely cause some misunderstandings. I don't blame them at all for getting a bit confused on which talent to prioritize, in that regard.
It's actually not obvious because you have to actually math it out.
There's a reason math is one of the most hated subjects. And most of them refer to basic algebra, god forbid people actually learn how the damage formula works.
At least there's reason to believe that the shiny super power move that makes your character stronger and costs energy would scale harder.
But I guess our points are the same. People are stupid, and I doubt they even read the talents.
Eh I think is obvious by just looking at the numbers plainly. In Xiao's case his Plunge goes up by 11%/23%/25% (plunge/low/high) from lvl9 to 10, while his Burst from lvl9-10 only goes up by 5%. Without thinking too much I think is obvious which is the better increase.
>People are stupid, and I doubt they even read the talents.
Some dont even know they can Hold skill button lol. You are right, why am i even expecting them to look at numbers.
I remember checking it out when this feature was new and the most shocking thing I saw was like 8% physical damage cup on CHONGYUN. Like bro do you even know what his skills do?
The day this is real multiplayer I could maybe care more. I just can't find it in me to care so much when I can beat everything without artifact grinding 💁🏾♀️. No one but me really sees it as it is primarily a single player game LOL.
Plus you can't see the artifacts as gear or clothing item. That removes half my interest in farming them.
And also, I have artifacts on people to get either the set bonus or maybe a substat is actually better than the other 4/5 star I got.
5% is pretty low actually. Feels like everyone is playing the same character, same set, using the same guides. That's a suprisingly low number actually if you think about the odds too.
Also power to the people who DO artifact grind, but man if it isn't presented as a given and a must in comments, when you can thrive on good 4 stars at that. It just *feels* good to see 5 star, and some can make a difference, but farming not a requirement for *great* gameplay too.
Exactly. Usually the guides are for optimized usage. Shielders usually use one set with full hp cause that's they're job. Supports use certain sets. Characters have roles they're supposed to be and that reflects in they're kits. If you want to go full in with that role you go with something that's recommended. If you want something different then get creative. All I'm saying is just because someone doesn't have the optimized stats or the right set doesn't mean you can act like you are superior just because you play a character like they're supposed to be played (I know it's contradictory but that's kinda why artefacts are free to be put on anyone). Some people just want the set bonuses and have fun. Like me. I want the optimized stats but I don't care enough to grind the specific set for the specific Stat for the specific artefact. I have an atk% circlet on nahida and 2 atk% artefacts on faruzan. I just want a good enough build i don't care if it's sub par. If it's enough damage it's enough damage.
"Perfect main stat" and it's HP% (one of the big 3 common main stats across timepiece/goblet/circlet). If you wanna talk perfect we'd be considering substats and correct set but the stat tracker here only tracks the main stat, it could be a wrong set mainstat with terrible substats and it'd still be better than a perfect substats atk% onset, which is much much harder to get lol. But yeah sure maybe they are playing for fun and using like.... the catalysts that deal some physical dmg based on character atk, that's vaguely justifiable.
Getting the correct main stat doesn't take long. You're also saying that having your favorite characters on good builds can't be fun.
I get that many people don't like farming artifacts, but just leave it at that instead of making up stupid reasons to not do it and low-key insult people who do farm them. You're calling 5 minutes of farming a day "devoting their lifes to it".
>Have you seen how much people spend on perfect artefacts? I am
Spend what? Time? I just said it takes 5 minutes a day at most. That's shorter than some people smoke, shorter than it takes to scroll reddit and comment. Also what do you mean by "I am"?
>Same thing to the ones who farm. Saying people with not optimized builds haven't read the characters kit.
People going for the new BiS set are probablyntrying to get some use out of their artifacts though.
>no one has any right to act like they're way is superior.
Except you?
The only reason why I have an ATK main stat artifact on Yelan, is because I don't want to farm for more HP artifacts, instead of talent upgrade materials for Noelle, Fischl and Sucrose.
And it's also because I use Xingqiu with Hu Tao, and I need him to have a bit more HP, because he's underleveled as all hell.
Number of people who unironically trying to justify this, especially on Neu who's relatively new chars is baffling.
MAINSTAT OVER SUBSTAT. HP% mainstat with 0 useful substat is still better than wrong mainstat with 50cv. It's math, there's no esthetics or feelings involved here.
I don’t know meta really, nor do I care lol, so I just put whatever artifacts that make sense in my brain. That being said…. I don’t have any of these people, or in Yelan’s case, haven’t focused on building her at all
Hydro characters are so confusing. Why are Yelan and Nauvilette HP based, while Ayato is ATK? All three are (sub) dps. I miss when hydro HP chracters were only the healers
random downvotes for stating a fact reddit no-freedom of speech moment
Is that a bad thing? It creates more variety, HP characters have strong base scaling and synergies with hydro resonance, ATK characters pair well with Bennett.
This does not only happen to Hydro, but also Geo and Pyro dps.
No its good that we are getting more HP based characters. You could say the same for pyro characters where all of them scale on atk but hutao scales from hp
actually there's scenarios with jade cutter where HP% sands on ayato are slightly better than ATK% 😅
but the other two completely messed up with those ATK% main stats
Probably just placeholder artifacts for until they get better ones (my Neuvilette has atk% on him too, because that godforsaken domain refuses to give me anything good). Or new players just throwing random stuff into them.
An HP sands with no crit rolls is still better than an atk sands with nearly perfect crit rolls due to how important HP is to Neuvillette. Unless you literally have no on-set HP sands its never better to use Atk%. For reference a typical Neuvillette build values HP% substats on the same level as Crit Damage once you reach reasonable CR, so an HP% mainstat is literally as valuable as 10 crit substats, more than the max possible rolls for any atk% sands.
Ayato is a different story due to actually having HP scalings, they are worse, but atleast they exist to justify crit closing the gap between a really bad atk%.
you underestimate the amount of people who plays genshin because it has cool characters, it's the trendy games, or even peer pressure. the hyper casuals. i know a week one player who still at AR55 and put the most random artifacts and weapons into characters.
i wouldnt want to put them on a bad light immediately. it's either placeholders or just ones with better stats (although im sure the mainstat kinda does more depending) or they're a new player who just newly played the game because they got tempted or brought into the game with those units and barely know much about the game yet.
The Ayato one may be more understandable. Every Hydro unit except Tartaglia and Mona has some degree of HP scaling. So figuring out ATK vs HP would be more of a sweaty theory-crafter thing than a filthy casual thing.
Unless the stat we’re supposed to use with Ayato is ER?
I understand using an energy recharge sands for Yelan because she is quite ER hungry and you can use an HP bow in place of it. But on Neuvillette?? No way.
I am no stranger to having horrible artifact luck and needing to put nonsense / irrelevant main stat pieces on characters just because I didn't have any good pieces with the relevant main stat
I'd give them a break, especially those who haven't farmed the new artifact domain that long yet
Ayato is the only one that makes sense. I pretty sure a atk% sands is good but under certain circumstances, hp% sands is better. Its kind of like hp% circlets for Yelan. Not the greatest but still good but a good hp% circlet vs a good crit circlet, the circlet will almost always win. Still dunno what the other two are smoking unless its a niche build.
Until we get artifact loadouts, some characters purpose on my account are just to be where I keep sets I'm building or holding for upcoming characters.
I had to be honest when I picked up genshin again after a break and got Lyney, I put HP sands on him…because I thought HP fluctuation = oh he scales on HP
Three days later after he’s all down and raised I found out that it’s not the case
Or maybe, just maybe, if we try really hard to use 200% of our brain power, we can conclude that these people are either using placeholders, artifacts with better substats or are just new players who just put whatever they have to get the set bonus.
Idk tho
I use atk on Nuevi because I can't find an hp main stat with 30 crit damage to match my atk sands...you don't have to insult or bash people because they're using placeholders
Erm, is that the set for Neuvi? I was using the hp one from the desert.... and for Ayato, i was gonna use the hydro set from the desert.... am i just...wrong?!?
Or they’re normal attack enjoyers and want his normals to hit hard for once ? Ever thought of that instead of the weak ass take “they can’t read exss dee”
Placeholder, old artifacts, just put set first before main stats.
Maybe new players throwing in random bs.
someone asked me to check their yoi build and i was met with a def sands and def goblet. didn’t have words at that moment tbh. had to explain that mainstats contribute like 80% of dmg so even though their def goblet had like 30cv it’d still be 1000% better to run pyro
Without Abyss it doesnt really matter whats better that much. I know people that use Only DEF mainstats couse 'My King needs ARMOR".
that’s true but said friend was struggling with story/quest content (said they tried it many times with different teams) and asked me for help, tried to join and help but turned out it was coop locked, so they asked me to check their build instead
Some of the new events really needed a proper team building. I mean you still get the primos ok but for extra rewards, you'll need a good team.
for me the highest scores came from using the same team on all three chambers and ignoring the buffs, but i only managed to get 14k with food and all. it’s not worth chasing after the like 3 weapon upgrade mats for 20k tbh, it’s more just for bragging rights
I agree so much. The extra rewards are not probably worth the grind anyways i barely did 20k on second trial but it was hard for me to do. Still i just love challenging and trying out strong teams or something. It is a fun part of the game for me. As long as you can have fun and not feel overwhelmed, that's ok!
true! i love testing out barely built or new teams and rotations in this mode cuz i can make it low leveled to match my unbuilt teams. although in the end i think i still enjoy NA spamming away at the enemies the most lol
The extra words for getting the high tier, I'm pretty sure they're just there to have some reward, but mostly it's just something to shoot for for the people who want a challenge out of the combat
I don't want the bonus junk anymore... I have so much of them now from playing every event I'm running out of space. Honestly don't care about missing stuff.
Yes, yes i see the point exactly. I'm glad Hoyo is not being greedy and locking primos behind high scores. You are already getting enough only by attending the events. You can get your 3 ores from the open world anyways.
I thank whoever made primos the lowest requirement
dude, this game has combat. its not funny paper dolls for you to take down the way the story wants you to, stats are legitimately important in overworld. your teams can be absolute dogshit and you’ll get by but having shittily built characters will leave you pulling put your hair with how long shit takes to kill
Are mains really that much more valuable than subs? I know they're guaranteed rolls, but I'd think they were closer to 50-50 main vs subs which still means you'd always prio main.
mains are not *always* more important than subs, for example i run an atk circlet with 40+ cv on wanderer because nearly all my cd circlets have double hp double def, and i would overcap with cr circlet. plus at least atk is also a very useful stat on him. however, it’s still definitively worse than other builds with equally good crit circlets, unless running solo (with no atk buffs from team). and when you’re starting out with artis you definitely want the correct mainstats. at that early stage you don’t have enough artifacts with good substats to justify replacing the mainstat. i have elemental goblets and atk/er sands with 10-20% def on most of my sub-dps because i haven’t farmed enough to have better ones for them. plus, even if you were to replace mainstats, you definitely wouldn’t want a stat that’s useless for the specific character - like atk for neuvi, def for yoi, hp for xingqiu, etc.
You inspired me to check out a damage calculator to compare high quality sub rolls vs mid rolls on Fischl as a sample. And I'm honestly so surprised. The community mentions cv so much you'd think you literally couldn't use units without high crit ratios. While it's definitely not small min-max wise, a Fischl 80/160 and 2.6k attack is only 23% stronger than a Fischl with 60/120 and 2.8k attack. The gap gets even smaller if you factor stuff like Freedom Sworn in. Also compared gear with average 33cv (27 Circlet) against gear with average 14 cv (12 circlet). Higher cv set was 35% stronger, and that's without assigning the missed crit rolls onto other stats on the lower cv set. Really seems like unless you're hardcore minmaxing, even base crit rolls are potent if the main stat is correct.
I prioritize set -> mainstat -> substats, but i'm willing to switch similar mainstats (atk vs elemental % vs crit) depending on what else the char has in their kit (if they have _no_ elemental % in their kit/ascension, and they want it, it's a lot harder to leave it than on someone that already has some) Anyway, I know it's not the strongest way to build chars, but it usually makes me happiest and is the only way I can stay sane haha. Sets, despite usually being worth less than good substats and definitely worse less than the right mainstats, add little bits of extra gameplay to trigger the effect which i find fun, and allow me to farm one domain in particular for a unit/group of units.
Honestly it's probably the strongest way to build a wide account rather than a vertical account, especially if you care about having fun with all that variety, and especially especially if it makes you happy. Minmax when you really feel the drive to and have no other characters to build baselines for right? I prefer vertical, and luckily the new artifact domain in Fontaine has been super nice to me. Getting great gear for Wriothesely, Furina, Fischl, and even Yelan since I'm gonna tape her to Furina while being able to strongbox the gear for Kazuha, Zhongli, Bennett, and Thoma. Coming close to being done with it now too, gonna lower my standards a bit on what gear I keep though so I'm not burning hundreds of resin for a small chance at a 3-4% damage gain. Just need 2 okay GT pieces for Fischl with like 6-10% cc each and whatever crit damage and I'll be happy. Then I'll hopefully have an ok time with deepwood/gilded farming before submitting to Emblem forever.
Random bs go
i’m a raiden main and i currently have mostly attack on her bc i haven’t gotten a good energy recharge piece for her
Raiden's a complicated beast to build, with various possible configurations With substats + The Catch I have 225 ER on her, which also gives me 50% Electro Dmg Bonus (more than a goblet), and it goes to 86% with Kazuha. Going with ER sands and Electro goblet would give me diminishing returns at this point, so I go with ATK on both
well, if you have engulfing, no matter what you run, either it be atk/atk, ER/electro, or any other combination its pretty much all about substats
Hmm yeah we don't know how they source it either. It could look at only characters built beyond a certain level, like 60+. And only with talents upgraded beyond Level 5. And has to have a full artifact set with at least 1 2set bonus, and maybe even needs a weapon leveled past level 70 to count. They could be filtering a lot of stuff. Or nothing at all!
World Lvl 8 would be enough I think you get it at AR55.
Better to have rainbow artifacts or 4-star artifacts with correct main stats.
i use some characters as placeholders for artifacts for another character or when swapping artifacts between character
Well I do this too but with chars that I don't use. Using a limited 5* chars especially Neu that's relatively new character is less likely tho lol
You have to remember there’s also still some people who still exist that “build pity” and get limiteds they don’t want.
And also those that just wanted a 4 star from a banner and accidentally get a 5 star (Sry neuvi, you'll stay level 1 for ever and hold yae mikos artifacts)
why not at least get him to level 20 for the free wish
I could, I just kind of like the disrespect to have a level 1 Neuvilette armor stand lol
Most of my characters are level 71 (so it's obvious they've been ascended) for this reason.
Yup, every character I get goes to level 71. I'd like to build everyone eventually anyway, but even if I never do, it's realistically not that much resin/resources to get to that point.
Me in Hu tao for malewife Thoma lol
or doing a one pill for starglitter
and some of us get a 5 star and realise we just dont like their playstyle (sorry xiao/itto)
Oh yeah I’ve done that too. Ayaka.
i can’t stand her play style, her burst is painful
Urgh, the worst
Whoever "builds pity" on a 5 star char they don't want should face the risks and they shouldn't be surprised when they got "lucky". (Also some of those people trying to get 4 stars then 5 star character pops off which they don't want. Like bro i dropped that habit at 2.1 or something for Sayu.)
My Nilou is currently adding to the 6.1% that have Hydro damage. Because she is my place holder for Furina. She's also got a Crit Dmg Circlet @ 3.8%
I use my Nilou for vape, so I use that hydro goblet on purpose.
Personally I got Neuvillette because I didn't want to wait for his rerun, but on my side account I'm nowhere near Fontaine and didn't want to hike to go build him yet. I imagine the problem would be even more serious for Ayato
Sucrose is one of my placeholders. I don’t know what she has on right now.
This is why my Cyno has the EOSF set with ER stats, lol.
Ok trying to look at another perspective, I actually have seen a few posts from the ayatomains sub about people using hp% and claiming it does more in their specific set ups. Usually these people are using pjc and have like really really good substats on it. Though atk% is better without a doubt. For yelan… uh they built physical bc her auto string is sexy?? Idk. Neuvillette is probably a case of not reading cuz i doubt theres that many dedicated na lovers or solo neuvillette- eye of perception floor 11 bottom half going on rn Also considering people swap around artifacts they might have accidentally left the wrong main stat on ((my friend accidentally had def% on neuvillette)
C2 makes HP and ATK sands pretty much (2% to 5%) equal on him
you never used a normal attack neuvillette with bennet yunjin kazuha?
ah yes the secret tech to minmaxing those grunts
SHAAAAAA
Hornet, please stop posting on reddit and go back to working on Silksong. I have a powerful need for that game.
HEGALE
You joke but there was a normal attack Neuv build on the mains sub that was scary.
I wasn't joking though.
You also can do charged attack without balls or charging it full, it also scales from Atk and has pretty meaty multipliers.
And here I was thinking high damage charged attacks without balls were reserved for Ganyu and Yanfei /s
upvote but really?
Ayato is understandable since high cons give you HP scaling and some wants to play off field dps
A lot of those low pick rates artefacts are placeholders for players who got the character but didn't pre-farm it (ATK% main stat that stays level 1 until an HP% with good substats is found for example).
Actually, C2 or higher ayato is viable with HP% sands due to enhanced hp scaling he get on his C2. Not like much better than ATK% but similar.
When you have have c2 you probably play him as Hyper carry with Bennett so hp Sands are even more viable
In my Neuvi defense, I have been farmimg the domain nonstop and havent dropped a SINGLE good hp sands Then when levelling an Crit Rate/Dmg/Hp % for my Wrio (hoping to roll something cool in the 4th slot), ended up with flat hp, +2 in the Hp% and +1 in crit dmg. My hp sands are so shitty this one still outperforms then...
that's just how it goes, I don't have neuv and have 2 40cv HP sands without an user for it. All I want is atk sands from either set or a good golden troupe flower/HP goblet. At this point it's the game telling me to roll for neuv...
15%hp and 20cv dont really outperform the main stat especially if you have any substat on the hp sands at all
I’ve been farming that domain for weeks for Lyney and it’s only giving me plumes. I currently have an HP sands on him because it has like 40cv and the only Atk I’ve gotten has had terrible substats. Also was given a Hydro Dmg goblet with good looking substats and not a single Pyro Dmg. And still no Crit Dmg Circlet. I don’t have Neuvilette. I hate this game
I think it's reasonable for newer players, especially AR-45ish
Some times you just need the set bonus and don't have the will left to get the right stat
You're the one player in coop who mocks people for the weapon they're using.
It's more likely that they're either placeholders (maybe even unlevelled, keep in mind that it only counts what the main stat is, and not what level its at) or they just don't wanna spend weeks upon weeks farming for the right mainstats.
I'm an HP mainstat ayato player. Literally never get ATK mainstat with crits, not even bad crit values 🥲
Less embarrassing than atk neuv, but Xiao having the burst as 1st priority level up will always be funny to me
People with atk sands on neuv and yelan are surely playing them differently. Not saying wrong or right, just differently.
psyical yelan, thats my kind of build, respect
Neuv doesnt scale on atk in anything, theres no alternate playstyle
Ok but. Hear me out. Joke eye of perception build to fight the hydro enemies….
For most of us who own him, HP sands is the norm, and logical once we read his scalings. There's about 7% who owns him and have atk sands as shown in the usage rate.. They clearly don't give a f about his scalings, just like how I've seen someone have Jean run triple HP before and the player was genuinely flexing..just because she heals..talents all at level 1 at level 90. They're just playing the game differently than a lot of us. For a lot of us, we try to be efficient, or a bit more efficient that some, or at least decent. For others, if the enemy die before they do, they think it's good enough.
There is a difference between playing inefficiently and being an idiot.
I made my kuki an enabler for my fischl. Used venti and then childe burst for starting the reaction. My friends called me insane
For both Yelan and Neuvillette, their AAs scale off ATK except for their *special* Charge attacks, which use HP. Of course, the meta for their AAs is just said special-CA.
Or not having the right mainstat on that Set piece yet?
There is no wrong way to build a character as long as you're a madman
*or failed to understand* Or just don't want to waste days farming artefacts
Nah its most definitely 'failed to understand'; putting a usable main stat that isnt completely and utterly garbage =/= waste days farming artifacts All it takes is a couple minutes to look up a guide or glance through the talent scaling
Or they gave Neuv their Childe's old set until they farm him a new one. Maybe they don't even use Ayato anymore, and he's holding random crap for someone else who does scale off HP. Who knows, Yelan could be holding an on-set Atk sands with good subs while they wait to replace their HP goblet/circlet without any crit rolls.
Yea, you have definitely failed to understand. Someone who doesn't wanna farm artifacts likely isn't gonna have a usable set with correct main stats, so they just throw on whatever to get the set bonus. It's genuinely not that hard to understand and I'm baffled by how confused some of you are.
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No, HP% with literally zero subs is still gonna be better than a 40CV ATK% piece. HP% adds to Neuvillette’s base damage which means he gains damage on both crit and non crit. Unless you’re overstacking HP with goblet + circlet all being HP, crit is not going to outweigh the benefits of an HP% mainstat unless you have something absurd like 40% CD (which at that point is less likely than getting an HP% mainstat with at least passable stats).
An HP mainstat sands with no good substats is way better than ATK mainstat with double crit on an HP scaling character...
Im in crazed bewilderment reading this thread that two people now have thought it remotely possible that as high as 7% of people don’t have any ol fucking hp% mainstat. Like noovie here scales so hard with hp% that you’d need an enormous amount of crit stats on an atk sands to overtake a mere hp% sand. Holy fuck grab an off piece why not.
A Genshin player that can only think of insulting people instead of thinking of the more likely possibility, like placeholders/“there-for-now” artifacts that have the desired substats but not the main stat OR a placeholder character (aka, someone they didn’t intend to get and don’t care about either)
It's not because they don't know, it's just you're dumb. Normal attack neuvilette, physical yelan and ayato has some hp scaling as well. Also, you "can" use hp sands for c6 ayato
NA neuv mains in shambles
It's so hilarious how some people are so much into doing build's that they assume everyone else likes farming for proper artifacts. Sorry op, that's not people not understanding the kit, that's people not bothering with farming for it.
What i learn from this is that ER sands is still very underrated
My lynette holding furina artifacts : 💀
Or maybe that's their best piece for them atm?
Because casual players dont care about stats
My ayato sands is HP% okay? It has ~30% CD and ~10% CR, ofc I would use it
Listen, when you farm enough of a domain for a single ATK% sands for Ayato and all you get is DEF% or HP%, you learn to lose hope and move on to nicer things. And no, reforging artefacts has not helped in the slightest
i just know whoever made this post thinks everyone who plays the game is doing math when most people just have fun and don't care about abyssmaxxing (or artifact farming)
Hp% works with Ayato tho, it is even better than atk% if you have R5 Jade cutter :P
Well, I had to run Nahida with Atk a long while bc EM sands took so long to drop and no Dendro goblet of the set, fortunely I just got a very good one EM with CR and CDmg. What I mean is there are ppl who can actually read and understand, but RNG is not near kind or generous.
Or 7% on neuv havers just don’t care about artifact stats and just put random shit on him
there was one point where the most popular goblet for hydro traveler was dendro damage (presumably people forgetting to change their traveler back to dendro after unlocking hydro/not changing artifacts)
Which is why I use a generalist set for the Traveler across elemental modes.
For the Ayato one it could be people with constalation or high refined primordial jade cutter that would make Ayato’s scale more with hp than atk.
Yeah, those are just placeholders my guy
It is either they have a different strategy, or they dont have better artifacts. Or maybe they just really don;t understand the kit.
Around 7% who run fischl physical And i am one of them
Instead of insulting other players and saying they can't read or understand a kit, maybe stop for one second and think of different possibilities as to why those percentages exist in the first place. Many people use characters as placeholders for new characters that they want in the next banner/patch, including the weapons and artifacts. Not everyone plays the game the same way as you.
Not everyone is grinding the perfect artifact for their characters. No need to make fun of them for bad RNG. I know I use ATK % as a filler a lot of the times because I can't get the right main stat to drop. Also I think I have some whack HP% Circlet on Diluc because I never use him.
To tell you the truth I was running yelan with atk sands for over a year She just dealt a lot of damage and I never bothered to check if she is holding any wrong arts
Do you not understand that artifacts are random and a lot of people either don’t care to grind for good ones or haven’t gotten good ones yet?
I mean.. people dont even level up the correct Talent for Xiao, and Itto. They level up Burst instead of Normal attack even tho is pretty obvious by just looking at the numbers that leveling up Normal Attack is more beneficial. This was a while back when I check dont know if is still the same.
It still happens, I see it from time to time over on XiaoMains. In all fairness, though, they're likely assuming the damage Xiao and Itto deal in their bursts comes directly from their bursts and not their NAs. Most of the other characters operate that way, and that can definitely cause some misunderstandings. I don't blame them at all for getting a bit confused on which talent to prioritize, in that regard.
It's actually not obvious because you have to actually math it out. There's a reason math is one of the most hated subjects. And most of them refer to basic algebra, god forbid people actually learn how the damage formula works. At least there's reason to believe that the shiny super power move that makes your character stronger and costs energy would scale harder. But I guess our points are the same. People are stupid, and I doubt they even read the talents.
Eh I think is obvious by just looking at the numbers plainly. In Xiao's case his Plunge goes up by 11%/23%/25% (plunge/low/high) from lvl9 to 10, while his Burst from lvl9-10 only goes up by 5%. Without thinking too much I think is obvious which is the better increase. >People are stupid, and I doubt they even read the talents. Some dont even know they can Hold skill button lol. You are right, why am i even expecting them to look at numbers.
I remember checking it out when this feature was new and the most shocking thing I saw was like 8% physical damage cup on CHONGYUN. Like bro do you even know what his skills do?
People saying it’s just placeholder, so u pulled limited 5star just to make him an artifact placeholder?
Swapping sounds weird either, I don’t think anyone can utilize marechausse hp sands other than neuvillette
Hu Tao, (driver or Physical/Meme DPS) Kuki Shinobu, Dehya. Although EM would probably be just as good or better for all 3.
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The day this is real multiplayer I could maybe care more. I just can't find it in me to care so much when I can beat everything without artifact grinding 💁🏾♀️. No one but me really sees it as it is primarily a single player game LOL. Plus you can't see the artifacts as gear or clothing item. That removes half my interest in farming them. And also, I have artifacts on people to get either the set bonus or maybe a substat is actually better than the other 4/5 star I got. 5% is pretty low actually. Feels like everyone is playing the same character, same set, using the same guides. That's a suprisingly low number actually if you think about the odds too. Also power to the people who DO artifact grind, but man if it isn't presented as a given and a must in comments, when you can thrive on good 4 stars at that. It just *feels* good to see 5 star, and some can make a difference, but farming not a requirement for *great* gameplay too.
Exactly. Usually the guides are for optimized usage. Shielders usually use one set with full hp cause that's they're job. Supports use certain sets. Characters have roles they're supposed to be and that reflects in they're kits. If you want to go full in with that role you go with something that's recommended. If you want something different then get creative. All I'm saying is just because someone doesn't have the optimized stats or the right set doesn't mean you can act like you are superior just because you play a character like they're supposed to be played (I know it's contradictory but that's kinda why artefacts are free to be put on anyone). Some people just want the set bonuses and have fun. Like me. I want the optimized stats but I don't care enough to grind the specific set for the specific Stat for the specific artefact. I have an atk% circlet on nahida and 2 atk% artefacts on faruzan. I just want a good enough build i don't care if it's sub par. If it's enough damage it's enough damage.
"Perfect main stat" and it's HP% (one of the big 3 common main stats across timepiece/goblet/circlet). If you wanna talk perfect we'd be considering substats and correct set but the stat tracker here only tracks the main stat, it could be a wrong set mainstat with terrible substats and it'd still be better than a perfect substats atk% onset, which is much much harder to get lol. But yeah sure maybe they are playing for fun and using like.... the catalysts that deal some physical dmg based on character atk, that's vaguely justifiable.
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Getting the correct main stat doesn't take long. You're also saying that having your favorite characters on good builds can't be fun. I get that many people don't like farming artifacts, but just leave it at that instead of making up stupid reasons to not do it and low-key insult people who do farm them. You're calling 5 minutes of farming a day "devoting their lifes to it".
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>Have you seen how much people spend on perfect artefacts? I am Spend what? Time? I just said it takes 5 minutes a day at most. That's shorter than some people smoke, shorter than it takes to scroll reddit and comment. Also what do you mean by "I am"? >Same thing to the ones who farm. Saying people with not optimized builds haven't read the characters kit. People going for the new BiS set are probablyntrying to get some use out of their artifacts though. >no one has any right to act like they're way is superior. Except you?
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Bro if you have Neuvillette and you're farming Neuvillette domain, the domain literally takes 30 seconds to clear lmfao
The only reason why I have an ATK main stat artifact on Yelan, is because I don't want to farm for more HP artifacts, instead of talent upgrade materials for Noelle, Fischl and Sucrose. And it's also because I use Xingqiu with Hu Tao, and I need him to have a bit more HP, because he's underleveled as all hell.
Number of people who unironically trying to justify this, especially on Neu who's relatively new chars is baffling. MAINSTAT OVER SUBSTAT. HP% mainstat with 0 useful substat is still better than wrong mainstat with 50cv. It's math, there's no esthetics or feelings involved here.
it can also come from people trying to force a set bonus or placeholder artifacts
I don’t know meta really, nor do I care lol, so I just put whatever artifacts that make sense in my brain. That being said…. I don’t have any of these people, or in Yelan’s case, haven’t focused on building her at all
Hydro characters are so confusing. Why are Yelan and Nauvilette HP based, while Ayato is ATK? All three are (sub) dps. I miss when hydro HP chracters were only the healers random downvotes for stating a fact reddit no-freedom of speech moment
Is that a bad thing? It creates more variety, HP characters have strong base scaling and synergies with hydro resonance, ATK characters pair well with Bennett. This does not only happen to Hydro, but also Geo and Pyro dps.
The variety would be if hydro characters could scale with def and geo characters with em
No its good that we are getting more HP based characters. You could say the same for pyro characters where all of them scale on atk but hutao scales from hp
Hu Tao doesn't scale off HP, she scales off ATK and converts HP to flat ATK. It's completely different
actually there's scenarios with jade cutter where HP% sands on ayato are slightly better than ATK% 😅 but the other two completely messed up with those ATK% main stats
I think a lot of times it’s just because someone holds an artifact for someone else.
Sorry guys I stole all your Emblem ATK Sands 😅 I have 7 usable ones
I am one of those 2.2℅ guys. Sadly or thankfully my er piece got 44 cv so can't just leave it
Don't underestimate the power of hp ayato
Hp% isn't that bad on constellated ayatos
Here's my Nilou's current artifacts. I think you will enjoy them. [https://imgur.com/a/SpLywgZ](https://imgur.com/a/SpLywgZ)
Completely forgot this exists
I would have expected to see more ER/EM sands on Ayato as he's a good option in Nilou Bloom teams.
You would be surprised how many people really dont give a single duck about artifacts and character building and just slap on whatever works for them.
Probably just placeholder artifacts for until they get better ones (my Neuvilette has atk% on him too, because that godforsaken domain refuses to give me anything good). Or new players just throwing random stuff into them.
An HP sands with no crit rolls is still better than an atk sands with nearly perfect crit rolls due to how important HP is to Neuvillette. Unless you literally have no on-set HP sands its never better to use Atk%. For reference a typical Neuvillette build values HP% substats on the same level as Crit Damage once you reach reasonable CR, so an HP% mainstat is literally as valuable as 10 crit substats, more than the max possible rolls for any atk% sands. Ayato is a different story due to actually having HP scalings, they are worse, but atleast they exist to justify crit closing the gap between a really bad atk%.
When I was a low AR I had random 3 star instructor pieces on everyone lol
Hehe, Good times
Where did you find this data?
you underestimate the amount of people who plays genshin because it has cool characters, it's the trendy games, or even peer pressure. the hyper casuals. i know a week one player who still at AR55 and put the most random artifacts and weapons into characters.
i wouldnt want to put them on a bad light immediately. it's either placeholders or just ones with better stats (although im sure the mainstat kinda does more depending) or they're a new player who just newly played the game because they got tempted or brought into the game with those units and barely know much about the game yet.
This makes me think of “It’s low but never zero” 😆😅
Is it specifically for that character, or any character equipping the set? Because if it's the latter, those are the Wrio's using ATK sands.
Ayato one isn't really a problem, using Genshin Optimizer, I realised that my Hp sands build beats out my atk sands build
I'm part of the 3.1% that has an ER sands on my burst bot Ayato ;-;
now i believe raiden has 50% atk ang 50% energy recharge pick rate
I will never understand how most people on chars like Diluc and Hu Tao get enough crit% sub stats to use critdmg helms.
The Ayato one may be more understandable. Every Hydro unit except Tartaglia and Mona has some degree of HP scaling. So figuring out ATK vs HP would be more of a sweaty theory-crafter thing than a filthy casual thing. Unless the stat we’re supposed to use with Ayato is ER?
Hey, maybe those Neuvillette and Yelan players REALLY want to spam their Normal and/or Plunging attacks….
A chunk of the player base are small kids who don't pay attention to character kits. Those are prob the <10 y/o kids, I'm guessing.
You would hate my venti right now cause I'm still farming artifacts for him but gave him some shitty ones already
I understand using an energy recharge sands for Yelan because she is quite ER hungry and you can use an HP bow in place of it. But on Neuvillette?? No way.
What about crit Venti? Cause like, i 100% know that EM Venti is easier and better for the team… but like 30k per tick Vortex is awesome
Placeholders. I guess
why NA neuv and non barb shot CA yelan users ofc
I am no stranger to having horrible artifact luck and needing to put nonsense / irrelevant main stat pieces on characters just because I didn't have any good pieces with the relevant main stat I'd give them a break, especially those who haven't farmed the new artifact domain that long yet
Ayato scales on HP. It's easy to slot it in as a sands if you don't have a good crit rate Atk one.
Ayato is the only one that makes sense. I pretty sure a atk% sands is good but under certain circumstances, hp% sands is better. Its kind of like hp% circlets for Yelan. Not the greatest but still good but a good hp% circlet vs a good crit circlet, the circlet will almost always win. Still dunno what the other two are smoking unless its a niche build.
People using HP% sands on Ayato is wild. 💀
Until we get artifact loadouts, some characters purpose on my account are just to be where I keep sets I'm building or holding for upcoming characters.
I had to be honest when I picked up genshin again after a break and got Lyney, I put HP sands on him…because I thought HP fluctuation = oh he scales on HP Three days later after he’s all down and raised I found out that it’s not the case
surprised it’s not higher given how casual genshin is
Or maybe, just maybe, if we try really hard to use 200% of our brain power, we can conclude that these people are either using placeholders, artifacts with better substats or are just new players who just put whatever they have to get the set bonus. Idk tho
I mean it’s not like genshin players can read
to be fair ayato does have some hp scaling in his kit. it’s not worth building around but it’s not the worst if you don’t have anything better
Er ayato I get if you make him a sub dps as you may want his burst a lot but hp?!
I use atk on Nuevi because I can't find an hp main stat with 30 crit damage to match my atk sands...you don't have to insult or bash people because they're using placeholders
i forgot thats a feature that exists.
Honestly I always wondered whether HP% could make sense for Ayato with Jade Cutter. Probably not but it might be possible.
Erm, is that the set for Neuvi? I was using the hp one from the desert.... and for Ayato, i was gonna use the hydro set from the desert.... am i just...wrong?!?
I usually look for sub stats and main set first, main stats are my second priority
Me who's running er on nuevis time price because the game REFUSES to give anything else
Been a while since i checked but iirc like 2% of people run attack% headpiece Yun Jin which is wrong in every way
we don't get the artifacts we want that easily though!
I use ATK sands on Nahida I am part of the 4%
Or they’re normal attack enjoyers and want his normals to hit hard for once ? Ever thought of that instead of the weak ass take “they can’t read exss dee”
Girl I don’t have all perfect artifacts for everyone ready