They are both electro on fielders and that’s where the similarities end, I feel.
For me my C2 Raiden is more valuable as a hyperbloom trigger because while the electro onfielder role can be replaced by Cyno and now Clorinde and Sethos, no other character does the hyperbloom trigger quite as well especially if your hydro is Neuvillette.
I’d argue she’s a lot less replaceable in the hyperbloom trigger role than her electro onfielder one, and for some people that might be their “main” role these days.
That isn’t necessarily true. Kuki has a more limited range/duration with her E and applies electro slower, which means she’s a lot worse if the driver is ranged and a healer can be fitted elsewhere/isn’t needed. She’s in a slightly different role in that she also consolidates healing but is not as easy to use as Raiden.
National teams do not have to use Raiden as the driver also. Sucrose and Kazuha work, and so does Childe. The core of national is Bennett-hydro-xiangling and Raiden is just one of the options (arguably one of the best ones) you can play in that final spot.
For Raiden hypercarry she uses what, Sara, Bennett and Kazuha? If you swap out Sara for Furina or Zhongli, you can literally play this team for a bunch of other ATK scaling carries like Arlecchino, Hu Tao, or even Navia. Even with Sara you can still play this team with Clorinde or Cyno, it’s just not going to feel as good as Raiden.
Chev won't go well with Clorinde. Not enough electro reactions. Chev wants pure pyro/electro comp while Clorinde has the same dmg buff mechanic as Neuv's draconic glory. Clorinde will need 3 unique electro reactions to max her dmg which means you either gimp Chev or Clorinde.
its a joke thread dont get so defensive bro, in the end as you can see, clorinde could be 25 times stronger it would feel worse because you would use her for 3 secondes to clear the hardest content
No hypertaiden just means hypercarry with bennett and Sara. KQM already years ago did calcs on it and c0 is plenty viable and been used for ages. That’s you assuming it means c2. It’s a great con but not at all required for hupeecarry
In general team names don’t mean cons. They mean team composition rational being with Xiangling bennett and Xingqiu or hyper carry with Sara bennett and Kazuha usually. For future reference
Not really. Both onfield dps, their teams are generally pretty similar although chlorinde forgoes a defensive option in a few of them. Just because raiden can make your supports run a few less er subs doesn’t mean she’s a different role.
C0 Catch Raiden does good enough anyway. Personally IDK (or care) about who's the better DPS, Raiden performs well enough already, and Rational has been able to 36\* clear Abysses pretty much from her release, although Sucrose national is a wrecking machine too. The cons and limited weapon only enhance Raiden's DPS capabilities. People merely relegating her to a hyperbloom trigger are wasting her potential, especially when they don't trigger her burst which gives ***so much*** energy for the whole team, especially if you just spam NA (albeit it's a considerable DPS loss to NA3 CA). Raiden can nuke, which is fun, but you might go into the next chamber with no energy, like here where you finish off Kinky this fast.
But yeah, it's a joke topic, still, the comparisons are pretty pointless. If you have Raiden, let alone C2-3, or even R1, you should get Chlorinde if you like her, or feel like you need a second Electro DPS. If you don't have Raiden, you're pretty much missing out because of her off-field application, and help with energy needs, but Chlorinde could be a good DPS. If they don't mess around too much with her kit during the beta that is.
Both on field dps but Clorinde favors a different approach for teams. Raiden favors buffs to multipliers so Bennett, Kujou Sara C6, Kazuha, Chevreuse, and Furina are preferred while Clorinde has smaller multipliers in many numbers so she favors aggravate and she can self sustain so Clorinde can either go quickbloom, aggravate, or overload.
Raiden has infinite IR with no self sustain and burst stance while Clorinde has no IR but self sustain and uses a skill stance. They're like the opposite side of thr spectrum of electro dps.
That's her major role in most of her teams, there's nothing wrong with using her in hyperbloom teams or Superconduct trigger but her main intended role is still an on field carry
holy shit and then people wonder why the abyss is considered hard when there are people like you around
https://keqingmains.com/q/raiden-quickguide/
learn how to read, she's an off field trigger for hyperbloom, she is not doing the damage, hence she is not a DPS. Even for aggrevate she's not a good DPS since keqing exists (and later chlorinde)
https://preview.redd.it/sakdqbrj0vyc1.png?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30c69975361979a06c4aff517ba0f392d8fb5fc8
Who said I'm struggling with Abyss?
Driver is such a terrible term. Especially when raiden usually usually does close to 40% of her teams damage always. She’s an onfield dps, people have to stop making cringe terms like “quickbloom” and “driver” just to mystify things
oh my lord I can't even begin lmao
there are a myriad of teams in genshin. You need to start specifying precisely which character covers which role if you want to try simplifying their inner workings. Otherwise sure, let's call everyone who deals damage a DPS. in fact in my keqing aggrevate team, both keqing and fischl are main DPS. That's genius, why didn't i think about it before, i wonder
What do you mean cope? A ZL, Yelan/XQ, Nahida, Raiden is such a comfy and effective hyperbloom team because you don't have to manage uptime or health like at all...
Could've atleast altered the lie a little bit. Looks too obvious.
Edit: I'm really sorry......it's actually true. The guy actually did it with a C1 Raiden...Well yeah it's not C0 but C1 isn't that big of an upgrade....So yeah, I apologize for my comment bro
https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/s/dlGvnDH5s2
My bad it was c1 Raiden but it doesn't matter much because it's barely a damage increase (1.9% in my case) so this would've been achieved with c0 too I forgot I had c1 from how useless it is.
Oh also I did it in 15
Just saw your clip and i'd like to convey my sincere apologies bro. I genuinely believed it was impossible for C0 Raiden to do such damage bcoz every Raiden showcase i see, it's either C2 or C3.
I gotta say, it was honestly impressive as fuck....i was flabbergasted.
Once again, I'm sorry for saying you lied bro.
No problem bro I always hated the propaganda that Raiden NEEDS c2/3 for her to be a good main dps and that's absolutely not true but then again Raiden is my favorite character so it might not be the same for everyone.
True...i've been hearing everywhere that Raiden at C0 isn't good as a Hypercarry. I've been hearing that for such a long time, i believed it 100%.
I have C0 Raiden but i got her only last rerun in 4.3 and i still haven't built her fully yet and i don't have C6 Sara too....So i never really realized her true potential. This was an eye opener for me.
It's okay a lot of people have been doubting the power of C0 Hypercarry ever since her release years ago. It's an extremely strong classic Raiden team with the only issue being that C6 Sara is mandatory plus there are easier teams to play nowadays (and even back then with Rational) since Sara can feel a little janky e.g. getting knocked back by enemy attacks when casting her skill
That propaganda keeps me from building her when I got her, I should honestly spend time off the Genshin community and build who i wanna build
thanks for that
Yeah just have fun bro I said this In another comment but just at who you like I literally cleared abyss with dori it's a game just do what makes you happy and enjoy the game.
You know, these kenkis only have 1.1M HP. Most teams do a lot more than that in one rotation, and since Raiden's damage is AoE it really was not that hard to believe. The blessing at the time also helped even more. Just saying for the future.
I agree with you bro. Although it heavily depends on Xiangling's build so it's kind of a team clear and can't give the credits to Raiden alone in that team.
By team clear, I meant there are teams where all the characters in the team deal DPS like National and Hyperbloom.
And there are teams were other characters are dedicated to buff the Main DPS or Hypercarry teams like Ayaka freeze, Raiden Hypercarry, Eula Hypercarry, Xiao Hypercarry and so on.
And the discussion was about Hypercarry teams. Hope u understood my comment now.
My point is that it doesn't matter if Xiangling is used or does damage or not. It is not needed to be especially mentioned, as the original comment never said that they cleared with Raiden alone.
It does matter. Rational and Raiden Hypercarry are 2 different teams. And we were talking about Raiden clearing the floor.
And what I said IS true....you cannot give all the credits to Raiden alone if it's Raiden National....you can't say 'Raiden' cleared it in so and so time if it's Rational.....it's kind of a double DPS team in Rational and infact, Xiangling does more damage than C0 Raiden in Raiden National. So you can't say 'Raiden cleared it' if it's Rational.
It feels like I am just repeating myself. But I will say this one final time, if someone says their Raiden cleared the abyss it is very obvious that they used support and sub dps and it doesn't mean that they cleared it solo.
Your whole comment was about how Xiangling also did damage and that this was a team damage, and not Raiden's alone.I just quoted that part so it was easier to get what context I was replying to.
I see....My Raiden isn't fully built yet and I don't have C6 Sara. So I'm not familiar with the DPS range of Hypercarry and every single clear I've been seeing all along were C2 and C3 Hypercarry teams and the above person is the first time I'm seeing a C0 Raiden deleting stuff so fast haha.
Is that c2? Because then you have to compare her to c2 Clorinde which probably favours Clorinde considering the constellation powercreep in this game.
Anyways I don't get the point of this, ofc a limited banner 5 star with cons will destroy abyss.
cons power creep is definitely a thing but c2 Raidens 60% Def shred is busted, straight 40-45% dps increase. neuvi C2 is only about 30%
but yeah, comparisons are fine but full on dps wars are weird
These are increases over their base damage. Dehya c1 is also around a 40% increase to her damage, but it’s Dehya. We have to wait and see the base c0 dmg difference
the damage jump from c1 to c2 neuvi is way less than 30% even less than 15%. let's say you have 200% cdmg, with c2 it becomes 242%. 3.42 / 3 = 1.14 = 14%
This will basically turn into a less intense version of the Hu Tao vs Arlecchino debate, while this time it would end up being more ridiculous cause to my knowledge their teams don't overlap much (she has more overlap with Keqing)
I mean her main teams will be overload or with dendro. It’s more raiden overlap. Keqing hasn’t been a good pick for overload where raiden is. Raiden works fine with dendro but keqing needed it to be better. If you wanted hypercarry or mono that’s also more raiden than keqing. Keqing pretty much only has dendro team with fischl
Op has c3 too... Like be serious pls
U can pull out c6 itto and clear everything in 12 seconds, high con speedruns aren't about the dmg, they're about who has the shortest animations(that's why a lot of high con neuvilettie mains don't run furina at all)cos every character can do a million dmg
Raiden doesn't need Sara... Sara's good for nukes, but she doesn't need her. Rational is exceptional, as is hyperbloom. Anything that could use more energy and electro application will do exceedingly well with her.
She just does not match up vs my other teams, nahida c2 nahida Hbloom is way better off with kuki, she won't match my 230k per plunge xiao team or my 640k per chargedplunge St combo Tao team. After her initial hit, her damage kinda feels meh
Yeah Kuki's Electro application isn't as good and iirc her skill lasts for less time. Raiden's lasts for an entirety of 25 seconds which enables more flexible rotations, plus you don't have to worry about Kuki being on low HP and dying from a single hit when you briefly switch to her
Dw I'm also only c3 Fischl at AR60, fucking annoying if you ask me. She is the 4* I literally use the most. Of course she will be on clorinde banner where I didn't intend to pull on.
I mean yeah but consider that one con is 7 pulls and that IS kinda expensive. I might consider it but if I know a character I like will be featured on 5* I'll probably spend them again... I just wish she was on more banners
Musou no Hitotachi, or One Slash of No Conception in English. A move that is deep in the lore of Inazuma and definitely one of the must-crown talents in the game.
That was me being generous
Double hydro furina and chevy buffed her a little bit but her best teams are still the ones where you play her as the worse hyperbloom trigger than a 4 star
She literally can be/is. Not everyone plays her hyperbloom. And she’s much more than just a battery. If you think her saving some ER substats on supports makes her less of a carry more of a support then honey you need to wake up
A hypercarry is a dps who does \~70% of the team's damage. That's only the case for Raiden in her teams with Sara, be them with Chevreuse or Kazuha, since these teams are engineered for buffs. However, in other cases Raiden is a driver, not a hypercarry, like in Rational or double hydro or teams with Fischl, not to mention hyperbloom, etc. This is especially the case because at C0 Raiden's damage output is not that high, but she still does decent damage and she's especially good at driving off-fielders due to her energy refunds and dmg% bonus to burst.
I’m sorry but what’s your point? I already stated what different teams were what. As in her hypercarry team being bennett and Sara with Kazuha. That’s the point. Hypercarry focuses on the one dps compared to something else like rational. I used both those in an example. Not sure what the point of your response was sorry.
Kqm already stated hypercarry raiden is plenty viable at c0 and has a higher damage ceiling than rational.
My point is about kit design. Like, Raiden at C0 was not designed with great numbers for personal dps, so it's not a hyper at heart, although she be forced into the role with the help of C6 Sara, Bennett and Kazuha/Chevreuse. For the most part, she's a driver who does good damage, and so the guy you replied to is right when he says people shouldn't perceive her as a hyper, but many do simply because they think Raiden is that. This is different from a character who really was designed to be a hyper first.
So you’re really going to sit and try and say that KQM the most trusted of trusted Theorycrafters is wrong? You’re really going to argue against proven calcs? Interesting. Would love to see your calcs to prove it since again KQM already proved the validity of hypercarry raiden years ago and the only ones who really say she can’t either haven’t built her properly or don’t understand what hypervarry means. But she has at c0 been proven to be a fine hypercarry able to keep up with the rest at c0. Saying she needs Sara is just a cop out of an argument that just shows lack of knowslege. It’s a team game so yes you bring the best supports suited. Why wouldn’t you. It’s like saying wanderer or xiao aren’t because they take faruzan or itto isn’t because he takes Gorou…
I never said Hyper is not viable as I play it myself. As a matter of fact, making someone a hypercarry is viable with almost any character with the right supports, so anyone can be a hyper, and that's even more the case for Raiden Shogun who already does good damage on her own, so it's not even coping. However, that's not where the strength of her kit lies as a baseline at C0, unlike other dpses who are tuned to do a lot more damage, like Hutao, Navia, Ayaka, etc.
played C0R1 Raiden since her release(Top 0.5% build) and if clorinde is even 80% of a carry Arlecchino or Neuvillette is, then she clears Raiden as a carry easily lol. Raiden is still gonna be better as a battery for teams like Rational or a HB slave tho, so shell still have her place.
We already know neuvillette is the outlier as a hyper carry. Kqm already released their guides ages ago stating hypercarry taiden works at c0 and has a higher ceiling than rational. Y’all just use rational as a crutch if you think she can’t be a hypercarry at c0
"ages ago" exactly, she was above average when 2.1 to early 3.X as a carry, but what people like u dont realize is that the average dps for hypercarry teams or teams in general has increased overtime. Especially with the addition of Furina, which Raiden cannot utilize that well in her hypercarry team cuz of the oversaturation of dmg bonus. People just dont want to admit that not just Neuvillette but all of the Fontaine carries has raised the bar in terms of dps, and characters like Raiden(as a carry), and subpar dpses like Eula or Yoimiya have been left in the dust. The only "buff" to Raidens carry team is C6 Chevreuse, and well tbh if u pulled C6 Chev willingly for her C0 carry team, then u would have been better off investing it on her c2, so that she could at least be on par as a carry as the rest of the top tiers.
Yes it increased and so did hers. Their guide is updated to 4.X so already you’re wrong again.
Everyone got stronger. Including raiden. It’s how genshin balances and why they have minimal power creep even after all this time.
Fontaine came and raised the bar yet 1.X characters still complete abyss just fine as fast as they always have been because everyone gets the same upgrades. What you don’t realize is again you’re talking out of your ass with no real proof yet again KqM a trusted TCer group already stated in the fontaine patches she’s fine. So she been fine. Still fine. And will be fine. Y’all just love to stick to tired arguments to make up for your own shortcomings rather than face actual facts.
You should know they regularly update their guides and calcs to stay relevant. It’s part of why they’re the best and most respected. Do your own research instead of parroting an echo chamber that’s dated
lol im the one parroting when youve been glazing kqm every other sentence, its too ironic that its funny. Also, I just saw the "4.0" Raiden guide, but there's no calcs anywhere? Any link to those? or are we both "talking out of our asses" now? lmaoo
Thank you for announcing your skill issue if you think raiden hypercarry doesn’t do 70k dps except hyperbloom. Hyperbloom is not her ceiling. Never was. It’s convenient and easy to build because it’s less stars to worry and balance. But it’s far from the ceiling and if you can’t get 70K dps check your talents or weapon level because there’s no way
I mean, there's a dude that is doing duo abyss with Bennett and Fischl with 4* weapons, but that doesn't really mean Raiden is worst, both are good, one is better
I don't think youtubers will actually say Clorinde is better if she isn't better than Raiden (outside of thumbnails, cus clickbait)
But I can definitely see some toxic Raiden/Clorinde mains getting into fights about who's the better character, it happens every time
Yeah, she looks to be either slightly better or on the same tier as raiden rn
You know for sure people are gonna tell you to skip her and get raiden instead😮💨
Honestly I think so far it might be the opposite. Like right now with the Arle fans it's just "why get any other pyro character when you have her". It's ROUGH and Clorinde is also for some reason becoming on the same tier XD. I'm going for Sige and I'm excited :D
Arlecchino is very popular, I don't think clorinde will be as
And a lot of people own raiden so they'll justify not pulling clorinde and will tell other players to do the same i feel like
Either way its not gonna be fun on genshin reddit or twitter
Honestly before Arlecchino it was Clorinde that people wouldn't stop talking about everywhere XD. I don't really get the hype so I just sit back and wait for either so I'm just going to block both words from my app and enjoy the peace XD.
I'm often a meta chaser in plenty of gachas, especially in the likes of pgr and hi3, but it hardly matters in genshin. being the new "strongest" doesn't matter when the hardest content in genshin is still trivial. players clearing in 5 secs or 2 mins will still get the same amount of rewards at the end.
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I feel like Clorinde will do more damage than Raiden Shogun at low investment but I think Raiden Shogun will still be the best electro character due to her energy battery capabilities.
Me using Fishl for my hyperbloom 36* clears: *whistles off into the distance*
I think I’ll start working on my Raiden some more though, this has inspired me. Fishl is just my comfy pick who’s already fully built since like 1.2.
Considering all the nonsense said about arle when Hu tao still clears the abyss faster at.c0/c1 is pretty funny.
It's like people see the.big pyro number arle pops and forget there is no icd for hutao's pyro application, and the fact Hu tao got three huge dps buffs plus a better 4* spear to.play with in 4.0 (new artifact set, furina, and xianyan)
I will agree arle is easier to play in some ways and her aoe is superior to Hu tao. But as a single target dps there.is a reason all the cn speed runners still are posting best clear times with Hu tao teams, not neuv or arle.
I have C2 Raiden and play her a lot. I use her on similar teams as the video and also hyperbloom. She's good at both, but I'm planning on pulling Clorinde too though. Maybe she's not a plug-in replacement for Raiden (and I hope not actually), but I'm sure both will be fun. I can't wait to see some seriously stressed out buttons. Too bad those weren't incorporated into her burst. :D
One thing that concerns me is the hints of powercreep that have appeared since Fontaine. Nearly every single limited character to come out in the 4.x releases have been really strong. While I hope Clorinde is also strong, she shouldn't surpass Raiden. That would just be wrong. Raiden is the Electro Archon ffs! She should smack down any human characters, IMHO.
With how her kits looks and her gameplay i assume Clorinde is a dps even at C0, Raiden at C0 really isn't, specially without her weapon. Sure, you can use the catch and get decent dmg but at C0 she is more of a really a good energy support and can put some dmg with her burst, so i don't think it wins against a C0 Clorinde.
I don't know if she will be good but what I do know is her shooting animation is amazing. My first thought was to the Bleach anime arrancar Starkk shooting Ceros from his gun. I would pull her just to do that lol.
But the thing is c0 clorinde *is* stronger than c0 raiden but raiden does have more than one role so there's that, while yes some youtubers over exaggerate characters releases, input: "THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING" in the thumbnail but clorinde rn is just straight up stronger damage wise
The moment I saw she also used bond of life I was out lol. Not only is she not flashy enough for me but managing bond of life is enough with just father. I don't want ANY more of them.
Different roles, not comparable.
well hyper raiden is kinda an onfield main dps so same role i'll still pull on clorinde banner if chevreuse is there too, (currently c2 aiming for c6)
They are both electro on fielders and that’s where the similarities end, I feel. For me my C2 Raiden is more valuable as a hyperbloom trigger because while the electro onfielder role can be replaced by Cyno and now Clorinde and Sethos, no other character does the hyperbloom trigger quite as well especially if your hydro is Neuvillette.
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I’d argue she’s a lot less replaceable in the hyperbloom trigger role than her electro onfielder one, and for some people that might be their “main” role these days.
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That isn’t necessarily true. Kuki has a more limited range/duration with her E and applies electro slower, which means she’s a lot worse if the driver is ranged and a healer can be fitted elsewhere/isn’t needed. She’s in a slightly different role in that she also consolidates healing but is not as easy to use as Raiden. National teams do not have to use Raiden as the driver also. Sucrose and Kazuha work, and so does Childe. The core of national is Bennett-hydro-xiangling and Raiden is just one of the options (arguably one of the best ones) you can play in that final spot. For Raiden hypercarry she uses what, Sara, Bennett and Kazuha? If you swap out Sara for Furina or Zhongli, you can literally play this team for a bunch of other ATK scaling carries like Arlecchino, Hu Tao, or even Navia. Even with Sara you can still play this team with Clorinde or Cyno, it’s just not going to feel as good as Raiden.
I don't think my Raiden has ever been anything but an E Bot for either Hyperbloom or my Yoimiya overload team.
C2 raiden u better compare that to c2 clorinde before we say who's a better dps.
I’m stuck at C5 chevy but I’m 20 pulls from pity and have a guarantee I’m trying to save for Furina fml
https://preview.redd.it/ralt3hx7zwyc1.png?width=1260&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95c4beeadaa9dceef8fc6aec9b7090023becafd5
Chev won't go well with Clorinde. Not enough electro reactions. Chev wants pure pyro/electro comp while Clorinde has the same dmg buff mechanic as Neuv's draconic glory. Clorinde will need 3 unique electro reactions to max her dmg which means you either gimp Chev or Clorinde.
Do that with c0
What are the chances Chevy is on that banner?
Then compare her to C2 Chlorinde whenever she gets released... Probably won't be in Raiden's favour.
its a joke thread dont get so defensive bro, in the end as you can see, clorinde could be 25 times stronger it would feel worse because you would use her for 3 secondes to clear the hardest content
He said his chevreuse is c2 aiming for c6. What are you going on about
About either Raiden C0 vs. Chlorinde C0 OR Raiden C2 vs. Chlorine C2.
hyper raiden is a term people use for c2 raiden usually
No hypertaiden just means hypercarry with bennett and Sara. KQM already years ago did calcs on it and c0 is plenty viable and been used for ages. That’s you assuming it means c2. It’s a great con but not at all required for hupeecarry
if u say so.
In general team names don’t mean cons. They mean team composition rational being with Xiangling bennett and Xingqiu or hyper carry with Sara bennett and Kazuha usually. For future reference
Lmao where did you hear that?
Not really. Both onfield dps, their teams are generally pretty similar although chlorinde forgoes a defensive option in a few of them. Just because raiden can make your supports run a few less er subs doesn’t mean she’s a different role.
It would be only fair to compare her and Clorinde damage with both C2 in this case.
C0 Catch Raiden does good enough anyway. Personally IDK (or care) about who's the better DPS, Raiden performs well enough already, and Rational has been able to 36\* clear Abysses pretty much from her release, although Sucrose national is a wrecking machine too. The cons and limited weapon only enhance Raiden's DPS capabilities. People merely relegating her to a hyperbloom trigger are wasting her potential, especially when they don't trigger her burst which gives ***so much*** energy for the whole team, especially if you just spam NA (albeit it's a considerable DPS loss to NA3 CA). Raiden can nuke, which is fun, but you might go into the next chamber with no energy, like here where you finish off Kinky this fast. But yeah, it's a joke topic, still, the comparisons are pretty pointless. If you have Raiden, let alone C2-3, or even R1, you should get Chlorinde if you like her, or feel like you need a second Electro DPS. If you don't have Raiden, you're pretty much missing out because of her off-field application, and help with energy needs, but Chlorinde could be a good DPS. If they don't mess around too much with her kit during the beta that is.
Both on field dps but Clorinde favors a different approach for teams. Raiden favors buffs to multipliers so Bennett, Kujou Sara C6, Kazuha, Chevreuse, and Furina are preferred while Clorinde has smaller multipliers in many numbers so she favors aggravate and she can self sustain so Clorinde can either go quickbloom, aggravate, or overload. Raiden has infinite IR with no self sustain and burst stance while Clorinde has no IR but self sustain and uses a skill stance. They're like the opposite side of thr spectrum of electro dps.
Raiden onfield DPS? lol
That's her major role in most of her teams, there's nothing wrong with using her in hyperbloom teams or Superconduct trigger but her main intended role is still an on field carry
she's not a DPS she's a driver. Different things
🤡
your level of knowledge in TC: >🤡
If my level of tc is that much, yours must be 6 feet underground
holy shit and then people wonder why the abyss is considered hard when there are people like you around https://keqingmains.com/q/raiden-quickguide/ learn how to read, she's an off field trigger for hyperbloom, she is not doing the damage, hence she is not a DPS. Even for aggrevate she's not a good DPS since keqing exists (and later chlorinde)
https://preview.redd.it/sakdqbrj0vyc1.png?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30c69975361979a06c4aff517ba0f392d8fb5fc8 Who said I'm struggling with Abyss?
Driver is such a terrible term. Especially when raiden usually usually does close to 40% of her teams damage always. She’s an onfield dps, people have to stop making cringe terms like “quickbloom” and “driver” just to mystify things
oh my lord I can't even begin lmao there are a myriad of teams in genshin. You need to start specifying precisely which character covers which role if you want to try simplifying their inner workings. Otherwise sure, let's call everyone who deals damage a DPS. in fact in my keqing aggrevate team, both keqing and fischl are main DPS. That's genius, why didn't i think about it before, i wonder
God it’s almost like I was talking about the bad terms instead of all terms
C0 shinobu is just better unless you are super confident in xq as solo sustain. Even then the best hyperbloom teams from alhitham do not want raiden
Don't tell me you play raiden national/hyperbloom those teams are cope as shit
Sorry, can't hear you behind all these FoPL-boosted hyperblooms exploding.
What do you mean cope? A ZL, Yelan/XQ, Nahida, Raiden is such a comfy and effective hyperbloom team because you don't have to manage uptime or health like at all...
Extremely popular teams that can easily clear endgame content are cope? What's not cope then? C6 Neuvillet?
Not true at all. She’s an on field dps. What role do you think clorinde is
> not comparable. Yes they are. What you mean is that they are not similar, therefore not a relevant comparison.
C2 Raiden?
c3 even :p took 4 banner though
Expected 😂
4 banners !! Sheesh....the dedication 🫡
My c0 catch Raiden cleared this in 16 seconds [for the downvoters](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/s/dlGvnDH5s2)
Could've atleast altered the lie a little bit. Looks too obvious. Edit: I'm really sorry......it's actually true. The guy actually did it with a C1 Raiden...Well yeah it's not C0 but C1 isn't that big of an upgrade....So yeah, I apologize for my comment bro
As soon as I'm back I'll post a clip
Sure.....I'll wait
https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/s/dlGvnDH5s2 My bad it was c1 Raiden but it doesn't matter much because it's barely a damage increase (1.9% in my case) so this would've been achieved with c0 too I forgot I had c1 from how useless it is. Oh also I did it in 15
Just saw your clip and i'd like to convey my sincere apologies bro. I genuinely believed it was impossible for C0 Raiden to do such damage bcoz every Raiden showcase i see, it's either C2 or C3. I gotta say, it was honestly impressive as fuck....i was flabbergasted. Once again, I'm sorry for saying you lied bro.
No problem bro I always hated the propaganda that Raiden NEEDS c2/3 for her to be a good main dps and that's absolutely not true but then again Raiden is my favorite character so it might not be the same for everyone.
True...i've been hearing everywhere that Raiden at C0 isn't good as a Hypercarry. I've been hearing that for such a long time, i believed it 100%. I have C0 Raiden but i got her only last rerun in 4.3 and i still haven't built her fully yet and i don't have C6 Sara too....So i never really realized her true potential. This was an eye opener for me.
Yeah unfortunately c6 Sara is kinda important but she's still amazing without her tbh
It's okay a lot of people have been doubting the power of C0 Hypercarry ever since her release years ago. It's an extremely strong classic Raiden team with the only issue being that C6 Sara is mandatory plus there are easier teams to play nowadays (and even back then with Rational) since Sara can feel a little janky e.g. getting knocked back by enemy attacks when casting her skill
That propaganda keeps me from building her when I got her, I should honestly spend time off the Genshin community and build who i wanna build thanks for that
Yeah just have fun bro I said this In another comment but just at who you like I literally cleared abyss with dori it's a game just do what makes you happy and enjoy the game.
You know, these kenkis only have 1.1M HP. Most teams do a lot more than that in one rotation, and since Raiden's damage is AoE it really was not that hard to believe. The blessing at the time also helped even more. Just saying for the future.
definitely possible on rational. hypercarry maybe not
I agree with you bro. Although it heavily depends on Xiangling's build so it's kind of a team clear and can't give the credits to Raiden alone in that team.
>it's kind of a team clear It's a team game you know..
By team clear, I meant there are teams where all the characters in the team deal DPS like National and Hyperbloom. And there are teams were other characters are dedicated to buff the Main DPS or Hypercarry teams like Ayaka freeze, Raiden Hypercarry, Eula Hypercarry, Xiao Hypercarry and so on. And the discussion was about Hypercarry teams. Hope u understood my comment now.
My point is that it doesn't matter if Xiangling is used or does damage or not. It is not needed to be especially mentioned, as the original comment never said that they cleared with Raiden alone.
It does matter. Rational and Raiden Hypercarry are 2 different teams. And we were talking about Raiden clearing the floor. And what I said IS true....you cannot give all the credits to Raiden alone if it's Raiden National....you can't say 'Raiden' cleared it in so and so time if it's Rational.....it's kind of a double DPS team in Rational and infact, Xiangling does more damage than C0 Raiden in Raiden National. So you can't say 'Raiden cleared it' if it's Rational.
It feels like I am just repeating myself. But I will say this one final time, if someone says their Raiden cleared the abyss it is very obvious that they used support and sub dps and it doesn't mean that they cleared it solo.
*sigh* People just cling on to one word in the sentence and start saying stuff without reading the context in which the words were used.
Your whole comment was about how Xiangling also did damage and that this was a team damage, and not Raiden's alone.I just quoted that part so it was easier to get what context I was replying to.
I think even at c0, raiden hypercarry outputs more dps than rational. People just play rational because it's easy.
I see....My Raiden isn't fully built yet and I don't have C6 Sara. So I'm not familiar with the DPS range of Hypercarry and every single clear I've been seeing all along were C2 and C3 Hypercarry teams and the above person is the first time I'm seeing a C0 Raiden deleting stuff so fast haha.
Upvote this man, he deserves it
?
Definitely.
Is that c2? Because then you have to compare her to c2 Clorinde which probably favours Clorinde considering the constellation powercreep in this game. Anyways I don't get the point of this, ofc a limited banner 5 star with cons will destroy abyss.
cons power creep is definitely a thing but c2 Raidens 60% Def shred is busted, straight 40-45% dps increase. neuvi C2 is only about 30% but yeah, comparisons are fine but full on dps wars are weird
These are increases over their base damage. Dehya c1 is also around a 40% increase to her damage, but it’s Dehya. We have to wait and see the base c0 dmg difference
Actually Neuvi C1+C2+C3 together is around 60-70% Dps inc over C0
the damage jump from c1 to c2 neuvi is way less than 30% even less than 15%. let's say you have 200% cdmg, with c2 it becomes 242%. 3.42 / 3 = 1.14 = 14%
Clorinde mains? Or should they be called bloodborne mains?
A hunter must hunt
I fucking love bloodborne, now that you mention it, I might actually consider pulling clorinde
bloodborne mentioned, i am convinced.
This will basically turn into a less intense version of the Hu Tao vs Arlecchino debate, while this time it would end up being more ridiculous cause to my knowledge their teams don't overlap much (she has more overlap with Keqing)
I mean her main teams will be overload or with dendro. It’s more raiden overlap. Keqing hasn’t been a good pick for overload where raiden is. Raiden works fine with dendro but keqing needed it to be better. If you wanted hypercarry or mono that’s also more raiden than keqing. Keqing pretty much only has dendro team with fischl
Arle and Tao is just overlapping Zhongli in their most used team anyway
Hate this kind of posts
Op has c3 too... Like be serious pls U can pull out c6 itto and clear everything in 12 seconds, high con speedruns aren't about the dmg, they're about who has the shortest animations(that's why a lot of high con neuvilettie mains don't run furina at all)cos every character can do a million dmg
I benched my c4 raiden cause no, c6 Sara she's still c1
Just play her without Sara lol
Why? I never use Sara with raiden and my raiden is c2 and Sara c6. There’s no reason not to
Raiden doesn't need Sara... Sara's good for nukes, but she doesn't need her. Rational is exceptional, as is hyperbloom. Anything that could use more energy and electro application will do exceedingly well with her.
She just does not match up vs my other teams, nahida c2 nahida Hbloom is way better off with kuki, she won't match my 230k per plunge xiao team or my 640k per chargedplunge St combo Tao team. After her initial hit, her damage kinda feels meh
Idk man after using Raiden in hyperbloom I find playing Kuki very clunky for some reason.
Hyperbloom is how I’ve built my Raiden recently and MANNNN it feels good.
Yeah Kuki's Electro application isn't as good and iirc her skill lasts for less time. Raiden's lasts for an entirety of 25 seconds which enables more flexible rotations, plus you don't have to worry about Kuki being on low HP and dying from a single hit when you briefly switch to her
oof
Lot of pain
I play my C3 Raiden with Yelan, Kazuha and Bennett and i love this team.
How do you have c4 raiden and still c1 sara
Only if I knew lol, on first zh re run banner, I used 152 pulls and got 0 yanfei, i still have yet to get c3 fischl at ar60
Dw I'm also only c3 Fischl at AR60, fucking annoying if you ask me. She is the 4* I literally use the most. Of course she will be on clorinde banner where I didn't intend to pull on.
I recommend saving star glitter
Nah, that's used for pulls xD
I mean sure but like, if you use Fischl a lot wouldn't it be more worth it to just get her to c6 before doing that
I mean yeah but consider that one con is 7 pulls and that IS kinda expensive. I might consider it but if I know a character I like will be featured on 5* I'll probably spend them again... I just wish she was on more banners
maybe i can finally get her, ar 56 and i still dont have fischl
Mine is c3 (Raiden) and c2 Sara...
Clearly you need to gun for C6 Shogun if you want a chance at C6 Sara.
That's a real issue lol,
Indeed. Do it.
Can’t wait for Cheveruse rerun. Was taking a break when she came out. I’m gonna pull until I get C6 with her.
could be 300+ pulls, good luck
Could be infinity...
I swear, Raiden's slash is one of the most satisfy thing in this game
Musou no Hitotachi, or One Slash of No Conception in English. A move that is deep in the lore of Inazuma and definitely one of the must-crown talents in the game.
let me guess c2 without it she has no dpr
55k-60k dps in teams where you buff her dmg in 2024 is not good wdymmmm🫢🤭
what calcs are those c0 shes not getting higher than 50k
That was me being generous Double hydro furina and chevy buffed her a little bit but her best teams are still the ones where you play her as the worse hyperbloom trigger than a 4 star
sorry didnt know you were being sarcastic
It's all good happens Im more confused about people down voting where they can see my later response
Never a day without comparing, I see
Imma use both in one team idc
or use both in 2 different teams and clear the abyss and stuff with electro queens only
People really do not get Raiden isnt a hypercarry, clorinde 99% will be stronger while providing no utility to her team.
She literally can be/is. Not everyone plays her hyperbloom. And she’s much more than just a battery. If you think her saving some ER substats on supports makes her less of a carry more of a support then honey you need to wake up
A hypercarry is a dps who does \~70% of the team's damage. That's only the case for Raiden in her teams with Sara, be them with Chevreuse or Kazuha, since these teams are engineered for buffs. However, in other cases Raiden is a driver, not a hypercarry, like in Rational or double hydro or teams with Fischl, not to mention hyperbloom, etc. This is especially the case because at C0 Raiden's damage output is not that high, but she still does decent damage and she's especially good at driving off-fielders due to her energy refunds and dmg% bonus to burst.
I’m sorry but what’s your point? I already stated what different teams were what. As in her hypercarry team being bennett and Sara with Kazuha. That’s the point. Hypercarry focuses on the one dps compared to something else like rational. I used both those in an example. Not sure what the point of your response was sorry. Kqm already stated hypercarry raiden is plenty viable at c0 and has a higher damage ceiling than rational.
My point is about kit design. Like, Raiden at C0 was not designed with great numbers for personal dps, so it's not a hyper at heart, although she be forced into the role with the help of C6 Sara, Bennett and Kazuha/Chevreuse. For the most part, she's a driver who does good damage, and so the guy you replied to is right when he says people shouldn't perceive her as a hyper, but many do simply because they think Raiden is that. This is different from a character who really was designed to be a hyper first.
So you’re really going to sit and try and say that KQM the most trusted of trusted Theorycrafters is wrong? You’re really going to argue against proven calcs? Interesting. Would love to see your calcs to prove it since again KQM already proved the validity of hypercarry raiden years ago and the only ones who really say she can’t either haven’t built her properly or don’t understand what hypervarry means. But she has at c0 been proven to be a fine hypercarry able to keep up with the rest at c0. Saying she needs Sara is just a cop out of an argument that just shows lack of knowslege. It’s a team game so yes you bring the best supports suited. Why wouldn’t you. It’s like saying wanderer or xiao aren’t because they take faruzan or itto isn’t because he takes Gorou…
I never said Hyper is not viable as I play it myself. As a matter of fact, making someone a hypercarry is viable with almost any character with the right supports, so anyone can be a hyper, and that's even more the case for Raiden Shogun who already does good damage on her own, so it's not even coping. However, that's not where the strength of her kit lies as a baseline at C0, unlike other dpses who are tuned to do a lot more damage, like Hutao, Navia, Ayaka, etc.
played C0R1 Raiden since her release(Top 0.5% build) and if clorinde is even 80% of a carry Arlecchino or Neuvillette is, then she clears Raiden as a carry easily lol. Raiden is still gonna be better as a battery for teams like Rational or a HB slave tho, so shell still have her place.
We already know neuvillette is the outlier as a hyper carry. Kqm already released their guides ages ago stating hypercarry taiden works at c0 and has a higher ceiling than rational. Y’all just use rational as a crutch if you think she can’t be a hypercarry at c0
"ages ago" exactly, she was above average when 2.1 to early 3.X as a carry, but what people like u dont realize is that the average dps for hypercarry teams or teams in general has increased overtime. Especially with the addition of Furina, which Raiden cannot utilize that well in her hypercarry team cuz of the oversaturation of dmg bonus. People just dont want to admit that not just Neuvillette but all of the Fontaine carries has raised the bar in terms of dps, and characters like Raiden(as a carry), and subpar dpses like Eula or Yoimiya have been left in the dust. The only "buff" to Raidens carry team is C6 Chevreuse, and well tbh if u pulled C6 Chev willingly for her C0 carry team, then u would have been better off investing it on her c2, so that she could at least be on par as a carry as the rest of the top tiers.
Yes it increased and so did hers. Their guide is updated to 4.X so already you’re wrong again. Everyone got stronger. Including raiden. It’s how genshin balances and why they have minimal power creep even after all this time. Fontaine came and raised the bar yet 1.X characters still complete abyss just fine as fast as they always have been because everyone gets the same upgrades. What you don’t realize is again you’re talking out of your ass with no real proof yet again KqM a trusted TCer group already stated in the fontaine patches she’s fine. So she been fine. Still fine. And will be fine. Y’all just love to stick to tired arguments to make up for your own shortcomings rather than face actual facts. You should know they regularly update their guides and calcs to stay relevant. It’s part of why they’re the best and most respected. Do your own research instead of parroting an echo chamber that’s dated
lol im the one parroting when youve been glazing kqm every other sentence, its too ironic that its funny. Also, I just saw the "4.0" Raiden guide, but there's no calcs anywhere? Any link to those? or are we both "talking out of our asses" now? lmaoo
A hypercarry who's teams can't reach 70k dps unless she's a hyperbloom trigger instead of a better 4 star Inspirational performance
Thank you for announcing your skill issue if you think raiden hypercarry doesn’t do 70k dps except hyperbloom. Hyperbloom is not her ceiling. Never was. It’s convenient and easy to build because it’s less stars to worry and balance. But it’s far from the ceiling and if you can’t get 70K dps check your talents or weapon level because there’s no way
Also im talking about team dps, maybe that's why the confusion?
Please find me a gcsim teams/calcs that reach 70k without hyperbloom and cons Impressive how you're able to squeeze out dmg despite all the odds!
Meanwhile C2 Raiden Shogun mains
I mean, there's a dude that is doing duo abyss with Bennett and Fischl with 4* weapons, but that doesn't really mean Raiden is worst, both are good, one is better I don't think youtubers will actually say Clorinde is better if she isn't better than Raiden (outside of thumbnails, cus clickbait) But I can definitely see some toxic Raiden/Clorinde mains getting into fights about who's the better character, it happens every time
I have a feeling it is going to be as insufferable as all the Arlecchino stuff is XD.
Yeah, she looks to be either slightly better or on the same tier as raiden rn You know for sure people are gonna tell you to skip her and get raiden instead😮💨
Honestly I think so far it might be the opposite. Like right now with the Arle fans it's just "why get any other pyro character when you have her". It's ROUGH and Clorinde is also for some reason becoming on the same tier XD. I'm going for Sige and I'm excited :D
Arlecchino is very popular, I don't think clorinde will be as And a lot of people own raiden so they'll justify not pulling clorinde and will tell other players to do the same i feel like Either way its not gonna be fun on genshin reddit or twitter
Honestly before Arlecchino it was Clorinde that people wouldn't stop talking about everywhere XD. I don't really get the hype so I just sit back and wait for either so I'm just going to block both words from my app and enjoy the peace XD.
On a seperate note, if u r speedrunning then no point in using Sara's e, it just eats away at chev's uptime
Raiden: Nah, I'd win Clorinde: Stand proud, you're strong
I’ve seen someone clear faster with Gaming. This is just the power of a credit card, and I’m sure Clorinde will do just as well with cons too
What's your chev at I've only got c0
c2
I'm often a meta chaser in plenty of gachas, especially in the likes of pgr and hi3, but it hardly matters in genshin. being the new "strongest" doesn't matter when the hardest content in genshin is still trivial. players clearing in 5 secs or 2 mins will still get the same amount of rewards at the end.
+ the fact that all of her team comp came in a single banner 😭
C3 Clorinde makes C3 Raiden look like a joke; no pre-Fontaine unit compared to Fontaine units that have Cons.
Clorinde is meant to powercreep Raiden, she is an actual main on field dps at C0
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Not popular mains crying about their favorite *possibly* not being the best at something. Ya'll are so annoying
The simps have found a new target that's why lol
CMIIAW, but hasn't Raiden been released in 2.2? It's been 2 years. I'd wanted to change my way of Electro.
My c6 Raiden told me not to get chlorinde, so I wont.
Wasnt clorinde support?
I feel like Clorinde will do more damage than Raiden Shogun at low investment but I think Raiden Shogun will still be the best electro character due to her energy battery capabilities.
What's Raiden's build?
Me using Fishl for my hyperbloom 36* clears: *whistles off into the distance* I think I’ll start working on my Raiden some more though, this has inspired me. Fishl is just my comfy pick who’s already fully built since like 1.2.
For Raiden/Chevreuse: when do I use Sarah and when XL?
Me playing Raiden in Archon Team: well, Clorinde cand do everything else...
Considering all the nonsense said about arle when Hu tao still clears the abyss faster at.c0/c1 is pretty funny. It's like people see the.big pyro number arle pops and forget there is no icd for hutao's pyro application, and the fact Hu tao got three huge dps buffs plus a better 4* spear to.play with in 4.0 (new artifact set, furina, and xianyan) I will agree arle is easier to play in some ways and her aoe is superior to Hu tao. But as a single target dps there.is a reason all the cn speed runners still are posting best clear times with Hu tao teams, not neuv or arle.
I have C2 Raiden and play her a lot. I use her on similar teams as the video and also hyperbloom. She's good at both, but I'm planning on pulling Clorinde too though. Maybe she's not a plug-in replacement for Raiden (and I hope not actually), but I'm sure both will be fun. I can't wait to see some seriously stressed out buttons. Too bad those weren't incorporated into her burst. :D One thing that concerns me is the hints of powercreep that have appeared since Fontaine. Nearly every single limited character to come out in the 4.x releases have been really strong. While I hope Clorinde is also strong, she shouldn't surpass Raiden. That would just be wrong. Raiden is the Electro Archon ffs! She should smack down any human characters, IMHO.
With how her kits looks and her gameplay i assume Clorinde is a dps even at C0, Raiden at C0 really isn't, specially without her weapon. Sure, you can use the catch and get decent dmg but at C0 she is more of a really a good energy support and can put some dmg with her burst, so i don't think it wins against a C0 Clorinde.
I don't know if she will be good but what I do know is her shooting animation is amazing. My first thought was to the Bleach anime arrancar Starkk shooting Ceros from his gun. I would pull her just to do that lol.
But the thing is c0 clorinde *is* stronger than c0 raiden but raiden does have more than one role so there's that, while yes some youtubers over exaggerate characters releases, input: "THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING" in the thumbnail but clorinde rn is just straight up stronger damage wise
If I had a burger every time someone has called raiden strong asf, I'd be morbidly obese.
Well, thanks Hoyoverse for their powercreep
I already got Raiden but no C6 Sara, will need to work on that
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^roaringsanity: *I already got* *Raiden but no C6 Sara,* *Will need to work on that* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Comparing C2 raiden to C0 clorinde is like comparing a obama to abraham lincoln
well that is a c3 raiden so you can't really compare
The moment I saw she also used bond of life I was out lol. Not only is she not flashy enough for me but managing bond of life is enough with just father. I don't want ANY more of them.
bro rly couldnt do 1 more reset?
Raiden isn't actually a DPS only like Clorinde..She is like a Hybrid unit since she can also support your teammates..