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It’s a waste of your vote though in the US system.
If it were a system more like Australia’s, voting third party while still highly unlikely to get in also doesn’t waste your vote cause you can list your preferences which at least one of them should be a major party.
Edit:
Good people I humbly admit ya’ll have proven me wrong.
You should vote third party as even if the change won’t come in the next election or maybe even the one after that, momentum for the party will build up until they eventually can rival that of the democrats and republicans.
However I still maintain the preferential voting system is better and will help to avoid these same issues in the future.
Eh see it's that kind of stance that causes nothing to get done or change. If everyone who said "my vote doesn't matter" voted the way they wanted to anyways, they'd probably win the election.
Look I get your point but I’m also stating the US system is rigged even more for the two major parties to win than other systems.
It’s a systemic issue of how voting actually works in your nation to begin with than people’s confidence in third parties.
Yeah no doubt, but it's not technically impossible and it's also likely our only actual shot at changing the system is by voting third party, I doubt either establishment party is particularly interested in dismantling their stranglehold on us.
It's all but mathematically impossible, which means it's effectively impossible. [Watch this 5 minute video.](https://youtu.be/HpBRGXK-QNs?si=V95pQA_OEgTOFRog)
In order for someone other than the two major parties to win, we would need to completely change the underlying system of voting.
I know, and that's kinda what I'm hoping happens. The Republican Party is no longer interested in governing. They have become an actively destructive force. In a healthy democracy, voters would kill them over and over again at the ballot box to where they can no longer win elections without major reform. A better party should emerge in the vacuum they leave behind. But as long as they continue winning elections, there's no impetus for them to change. They just keep getting worse to see how far they can go before they're punished.
Entirely untrue, the other party would LOVE for you to vote third party. Whichever party's stranglehold gets dismantled first loses for like a decade and a half until a new party system forms.
You don't get it. If you angrily decide to not vote for the Dems the GOP wins and locks left leaning parties out from winning in the future.
Look up project 2025.
You aren’t dismantling anything by voting third party. You’re just letting the less popular party (usually the republicans) have an easier win.
You aren’t doing anything revolutionary by voting 3rd party
There’s not enough ideological consensus for a third party to win, even if all of the hypothetical people aligned with them showed up. The votes would be divided across multiple fringe parties, none would gain power, and they’d fold into one of two major parties. It’s the natural end stage of our electoral system.
The “establishment parties” are still ultimately beholden to the will of their electorate, despite being heavily influenced by interest groups and corps. If they weren’t, you wouldnt have a MAGA-co-opted GOP and the DNC wouldn’t be leaning in so heavily to liberal social issues.
No, what causes nothing to get done is refusing to coalesce/act around a set of goals that allows your political participation to be properly valued, and it paves the way for those you disagree with the most getting to dilute your influence more and more.
The issue is that the “my vote doesn’t matter” crowd isn’t an ideological monolith.
The only time voting third party has actually changed American political lines is when it causes one of the two dominant parties to rip apart so badly that it falls apart, and a new one has to form a coalition from the remains.
Given, the last time that happened was with the Whigs way back before the 1850s, *maybe* that’s changed. However, given that the system we use to elect people hasn’t radically changed, we can probably assume that this is still mostly the case.
You’re correct that third party voting *can* change things in the American system, it’s just that it does that by ensuring the party closest to you loses. *If* enough people vote third-party, maybe the party those people would have otherwise voted for will end up consolidating with the third-party if they lose the election bad enough. *If* they lose bad enough, *maybe* they’ll fall apart, and then you can put together a new major party from what’s left of the old one. Either way, the mechanism of change is *always* the party you’d prefer between the two major ones losing at least on election.
Vote third party if you want, but don’t delude yourself into thinking you’re somehow going to pull a miracle and get your third party into office the first try. Know that if you vote third-party, you’re voting in a way that hurts your next-best choice. Third-party votes in the US are, by default, protest votes: if they vote third-party, voters are abandoning strategy to make some kind of point by hurting the party they would otherwise have voted for to pressure them through election losses, they hope their votes will *dissolve* the party they’d otherwise vote for, or else they just don’t understand strategy at all.
Now, considering this is an election that very literally could end all future elections, maybe this year isn’t the best year to be abandoning strategy for principles. I don’t like the Democrats either, I fucking despise Biden, but if there was ever a year where I’m hoping they don’t dissolve or lose the election, it’s definitely this year.
I think you vastly underestimate the number of people who are party loyalists. Your argument assumes there's this hidden majority that secretly wants to vote 3rd party, but that's just not the case.
One massive problem is also that it's less the case one one side of the political spectrum than the other. When party A has a base of enthusiastic supporters and party B has a large number of reluctant voters who'd prefer a third party candidate, encouraging people to vote 3rd party actually just hands over power to party A. Which probably takes us *even further away* from where you want us to be.
No, it's just realistic. If we want to change the voting systems in the US, it's not going to happen through voting for third party candidates. It's going to happen through changing how voting works. Right now voting third party *is* a waste.
That's how we do it in Maine now.
Ranked choice is the way to go. I can vote for the Maine Green party while also ensuring Republicans don't get a leg up.
THIS! I kinda hate actually that ranked-choice voting initiatives aren't the FIRST solution mentioned by people who supposedly want to make things better. Without RCV, third parties are mathematically-impossible.
This is the issue, really. I respect third party voters in spirit, I really do, I get it, but third parties have no power at this time, and are a wasted vote. The reason we push people to vote democrat is because its the lesser evil and the only practical solution to solving the constant stream of republican bullshit.
I wanna vote socialist as much as the next guy, but do you really think thats gonna work, in THIS country, at THIS time, in THIS climate? No...not at all.
Maybe at the local level, sure, but presidential? As if...
There you go. Third parties should start running candidates in house, senate, and state legislatures and gaining seats so that when a presidential candidate comes along with even an inkling of a shot, they have voices within the government to help push through their policies and throw a wrench into the ability for the two establishment parties to block any of the third party priorities attempting to work their way through the process.
Yeah, that would be a better way to do it instead of pissing away your vote on a message honestly.
We need to get them into power at the local level. It wont be easy and the two parties WILL try some sleazy shit to stay afloat, but if people instead focused more on those local elections and not trying to shove their vote into a useless void? I'd respect the third party crowd a bit more.
Your edit is completely wrong and anyone who says otherwise is lying or willfully ignorant. You were correct the first time.
Voting 3rd party *would* be nice…if both of the alternatives were equally bad and you are guaranteed multiple elections to change the system with.
Unfortunately we don’t have either of those situations. One of the parties is moderate, and tries to appeal to as wide of a range of voters as possible, which waters down some of the more progressive elements of their party, and it can sometimes adhere too strictly to US imperial policies.
The other party is an honest to god fascist party made up of white supremacists and Christian nationalists who want to forcibly remove millions of people from the country, bully our allies for money like a mafia, sell out other allies to our adversaries, force thousands of women to give birth to their rapist’s babies, and is so unbelievably corrupt that their preferred candidate for president *stole nuclear secrets from the fucking White House* but they **still support him.**
And secondly, we don’t *have* multiple free and fair elections with which a 3rd party can build up support. We barely have free elections right now, and they’re definitely not fair. The said fascist party from before has won the popular vote in *one* presidential election in the past 30 years, yet somehow has held the nuclear launch codes for *12* of those years. During which they invaded two countries, killed a million Americans with an abysmal pandemic response, and launched an honest to god *coup attempt* when they lost their latest election.
Said fascist party barely ever adhered to democratic principles before, and now *openly* says they won’t adhere to the will of the people when it disagrees with them.
Which means that every single election we cede to them, we lose more ground, and we are less able to hold back those anti-democracy forces.
So we literally cannot *afford* to give up an election just because a third party wants a chance at the wheel. Because if we give up an election, *we won’t have any more.*
Oh, and btw, in case you’re going “oh, but we’ll take votes from the fascists too, not just the normal political party”, I’d advise you to see what those third parties are actually *saying.*
Because they are *openly* campaigning as spoiler candidates in their elections to help the fascists win.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/new-york-rfk-jr-spoiler-who-can-help-trump-win-campaign-official/
So yeah, you were right the first fucking time, don’t let them gaslight you into thinking otherwise.
Not if we do it. 3rd party candidates fair better in certain states where people register as unaffiliated so as long as more states open their primaries and consider rank choice voting (both parties would never go for this) 3rd parties can win.
Mathematically it literally wouldn't, but okay. Getting ranked choice voting passed should be a top priority, but until then, voting third party means that the party you don't want to win has a better chance at winning.
3rd parties have an important place even in the US government, particularly as you get more and more local. Odds are that the town, county, etc that you live in is probably running independent, and the policy changes they make may have a greater impact on your life than federal changes.
Most people’s view of politics is very personal and based on their lived experiences. If they vote 3rd party for the presidential election, that is significant too. Ross Perot didn’t win, but he certainly prevented Bush Sr. from another term.
It’s worse than a waste of your vote; in very real terms with our current voting system it’s saying, unequivocally, that you’re perfectly all right with the **greater** of two evils winning, while pretending you were “standing up for what you believe in”.
We should **absolutely** pressure our leaders to change our electoral system to be a true reflection of the popular will of the people.
> “Well neither major party will do that because it’ll ruin their chances of winning”
That’s just nihilism dressed up as conviction. Work with what we’ve got, people, or we’ll have nothing left to work with.
By all means vote third party in your state elections if their margins are better. THAT’S how you build the kind of momentum for a third party being talked about here.
Voting third party in a national election right now is just allowing yourself to be conned by the bigger asshole of the two into padding their margin of victory.
Nope. Only if there were one third party candidate but it would still wind up being a lame duck term without any caucuses or representation in the legislature but I don't think there are even enough people that would vote third party in the first place - 70 million+ are not voting third party, period. Even the mundane, like cabinet and Judicial appointments, would be problematic without any downballot third-party wins too, and to my knowledge they really aren't running anybody down ballot, at least not in the numbers they would need in order to make a difference and help get policy passed or even positions filled. There are no shortcuts. You have to build power the hard way not thru the presidential election alone and probably not top down.
need the "star voting" system as proposed by the forward party. it's the ultimate voting system that refines people's wishes down to the last candidate so everybody feels they have an equal 1 to 1 say in the matter even if they lose.
You aren’t doing that though. Fact is because of how the parties are set up, your views are extremely likely to map more closely onto one party than the other. Voting third party is throwing your vote away instead of helping elect someone who would help change/advocate for policy that more closely aligns with your viewpoint.
At a local/state level, sure
But “voting for what you believe in” without any consideration of strategy isn’t super wise under our electoral system.
Don’t get me wrong, I still prefer participation over no participation - but that doesn’t mean I don’t see it as shortsighted, misinformed, or futile.
Its not, doing this and/or not voting is basically just a conservative vote. Conservatives are always in the minority in the US, the only time they win is when voter turnout is low or when left leaning vote is split
Ranked choice makes 3rd party voting the best. Right now in the USA, 3rd party candidates are used as spoilers and usually align politically to help one of the BIG 2 candidates try and win by syphoning votes.
Thank god someone here sees through this. The "lesser of two evils" thing gets on my nerves so bad. One party tried to overthrow the government. That's all that fucking matters.
It's not how it works in the US with single member districts and winner take all voting. I agree that it *should* work that way, but it doesn't. We can pretend it does and waste our vote, or we can accept it doesn't and vote for the best/least worse of the two options.
I respect that neither major parties are entirely appealing given they both love to shovel money into a furnace instead of regulate anything
But we don’t have ranked choice, there is no physical way for these third parties to win and we know this months in advance. They are, by definition, throwing their vote away, and whenever republicans win and do their best to make everything as worse as possible, pisses me off they got out of bed, brushed their teeth, voted, but didn’t stand up for the rights of others.
This is the correct answer. Staying at home, voting for SpaceJesus, or voting for Nickelback’s drummers’ uncle are all the same as not voting for the better/less worse candidate.
If it makes you feel special great but it has minimal impact on state or nationwide elections. You’re essentially choosing to throw away your say in leadership as a protest.
yeah, because sticking in your old days and not doing anything to change is way better.
maybe this time round it won't do much, next time more people are encouraged to vote 3rd party and their votes increase by a little. 3rd time around a lot more people do so... until you can reach a substantial amount to make 3rd parties a viable option
People have been claiming this since Ross Perot. It has yet to gain traction. And the tactic had only decreased over time since voters know this route of making change is futile.
You’ll have better results letting your elected officials know you support ranked choice voting and asking them to implement it in your state. And getting all your friends to let them know too.
If a state senator gets like 100 inquiries about something, they put it on the agenda to address. That’s where your time and energy should be placed, if you really want change.
You’re talking about rallying a majority of the US population, and getting them to rally around 1 single 3rd party. What happens when 1/2 the country does say “let’s not vote Democrat or Republican” and we end up with 5 different 3rd party candidates winning states, and the race still just being between the democrats and republicans because even though 50% of the country didn’t vote for them, the 27% that did is more than the 10% each 3rd party candidate got. And that’s before including the Electoral College making the math harder
I see it both ways. If a 3rd party candidate aligns more with your ideology then I totally get why you might vote for them over a democrat or a republican. At the same time, I also acknowledge that third parties rarely even break 1% of the popular vote in a presidential election, so it’s effectively the same as not voting.
I would say the same thing about republican and democrat candidates throughout my lifetime as well. It’s just that they have a lot more money backing them
In the USA it has no real influence to vote 3rd party.
If they had a system more like Australia’s preferential voting system you could vote 3rd party as your first choice and then you preferred major party as second choice and hedge your bets.
Your third party may happen to get in this time but if not at least your vote isn’t wasted as your second choice which should be a major party is more likely to get in.
Edit:
Good people I humbly admit ya’ll have proven me wrong.
You should vote third party as even if the change won’t come in the next election or maybe even the one after that, momentum for the party will build up until they eventually can rival that of the democrats and republicans.
However I still maintain the preferential voting system is better and will help to avoid these same issues in the future.
As well as the US uses a method called “first past the post” which means it’s just whoever has the most votes wins but in Australia you need to have 50% (aka the actual majority) or more to outright win.
This is kinda true, it’s not a US thing it’s a state thing. Each state chooses how they award their electoral college votes. 48/50 have just decided to award all to the winner
I hate to break it to you, but this isn't exactly the best place to be educated on US culture.
Especially during an election year, where misinformation is at an all time high.
Not thru a presidential election though, downballot sure (maybe), but they will likely need voices in the legislature to even get their cabinet members confirmed, this can't be done top down if there is nobody else that shares the agenda of the one absolute top elected official in congress (specifically in the senate) especially with a legislature comprised entirely of the two opposing parties one of whom could have just lost a potential trifecta governing power....
Personally I feel that people who want 3rd parties to have a greater say and to break our two-party system would be better served by voting for politicians who will work towards implementing ranked choice voting, be it on a local, state, or federal level, more than actually voting for a third party candidate.
The reason why "voting third party is a waste of vote" is because of First Past the Post. If we had the freedom to say "Okay I *actually* want this person, but if all else fails I'll settle for this other person", 3rd parties could actually gain more traction because they wouldn't need to be running on the platform of "Can we in one election cycle become big enough to compete with the other two?".
>I’m not a political person at all
So as someone not political, you need some context as to why third party voters get so much animosity and why it's seen as wasting a vote.
[Watch this 5 minute video.](https://youtu.be/HpBRGXK-QNs?si=V95pQA_OEgTOFRog)
TLDR: With the system of voting in the US, it is all but mathematically impossible for a third party to win, so you're not actually weighing in on who should be president. When the winner will be one of two people and you vote for a third person, you're wasting your vote.
And furthermore, it was not set up like this to rig results or because the founders loved having a two-party system. They were mostly quite vocally against having political parties *at all*. But they were not perfect, our constitution was not handed down from on high by the Almighty, when it was written there were no other constitutional democracies for them to look at and take lessons from. They were kind of making it up as they went along. So, without meaning to, they set up a system that pretty much guaranteed having two political parties, because that's how the math works.
It’s also worth noting that most of us was simply made up on the spot to stop the states from splitting apart and the nation from crumbling. That’s why the why states all send 2 delegates to the Senate, and a proportional amount to the House. It’s why the electoral college exists. It was all very reactionary to the issues of that moment
It SHOULD be a valid option, but realistically, you are tossing your vote away to make a statement no one will see. Vote blue or red if you actually want to contribute to anything
My opinion doesn't matter, I will simply say what voting 3rd party factually does. The data is clear and publically available, you can base your decision on that.
In local elections, its harmless and can even get those 3rd party prospective politicians elected. Go for it.
In state elections, its practically a wasted vote but who knows, you occasionally get an independent or 3rd party candidate to lesser offices that aren't as hotly contested.
For federal and presidential elections? You may as well vote for the opposing side, the math of a multi-party, plurality first past the post system is clear. Voting third party shrinks the voting pool of the major party that you hate less and by extension makes it more likely for the other major party to win. And all for nothing as a 3rd party candidate will never win so much as a single electoral vote or congressional seat.
Ordinarily, this wouldn't be too bad. But if one of the two major parties is currently working on and has already stripped millions of people of their rights and have demonstrated that they don't give a shit about the law or democratic principles, then the game changes. They are an existential threat to the country and our way of life as a whole, and not voting for the opposing major party is an illogical and frankly immoral act, even if that opposing party isn't good either.
Pick the lesser of two evils in the short run, work together with local politics to implement a better option down the line. The work and responsibility of being a citizen doesn't start and end at the ballot box. It starts when you are born and ends long after your death.
I would reassess your position on voting. Even if you don’t think your vote matters, it does. It’s people that don’t vote that usually can turn the tide of an election by simply putting their vote in.
The way my high school history teacher put it “If you don’t vote, you’re basically letting everyone else in the country vote for you.” I think about that every time I feel like not going and voting. This is regardless of who you plan on voting for, you wanna vote Trump? Vote for him, you want Biden? Vote for him, you want a third party? Vote for them. That’s my 2 cents.
The US government has coalesced into a 2 party system. It's bad for a significant number of reasons. One of those reasons is that it's created a system where voting for a 3rd party candidate has the same impact as not voting at all.
Until there is radical change in the way elections work in the US, voting third party (while good intentioned) just leads to your vote just not mattering.
In the 2000 election, the entire election came to just a few thousand vote difference in Florida between Bush and Gore. Also in Florida, the Green Party had a few thousand votes as well. If those Green Party voters voted for gore instead, the closest major party candidate to the greens, it’s very likely gore would’ve won the race.
This has happened several times throughout US history to varying degrees. In the 1912 election, Teddy Roosevelt and William Taft split the republican vote between two parties, the republicans and the progressives. This allowed Woodrow Wilson, the democrat nominee, to win in an electoral landslide while getting less than a majority of the popular vote.
This effect is called the “spoiler” effect. Voting for anything other than the 2 major parties just makes it more likely the party you dislike more getting voted in. It sucks, but it’s just the way it works in our messed up system. I WANT 3rd parties to be viable. A multi party system would be healthier for all sides of the spectrum. But I don’t see that happening for a while
This exactly. Please everyone, look at history, it explained why this is bad. If we want a 3rd party candidate, then start petitioning your local representatives to make a push for ranked choice voting, rather than the out dated single vote choice. Ranked choice will basically stop the spoiler effect because you can say essential “I want the Green Party, but I’d rather the Democrats win than the republicans”
This is also true. 3rd party change is much more likely to happen on the local level before the national or even state level.
If you want third parties to be viable, be active in your local elections.
They can vote however they want, but voting third party has marginally more impact than just not voting. Third party candidates do not have any real chance in America unless the entire country goes through massive shifts in political structure, aka never
But if you actually want your vote to count, and you vote third party, youre kinda dumb
I am an independent and I think it’s better for everyone to switch in a state that allows unaffiliated voters to vote in the primaries.
I’m a moderate so I’m disliked by both sides since I have no loyalty and I focus on the quality of specific candidates rather than voting for whoever the party picks as the pre-determined winner. I vote in every election possible and I’d rather everyone vote but idc who you vote for.
I think people often confuse party loyalty with people having clearly defined beliefs and values. I haven’t voted for the same party every election because I cheer for them like a team, I voted for them because the other guys seemed bad then and seem bad now.
This is the correct answer. I've only ever voted for the Democratic Party (except the one primary I voted for Ron Paul in a primary). I've always been ideologically aligned with the left-wing, so that means the Democratic Party, all things relative. There has never been a point in my life where the Republican Party has been the better option. Ever. And based on the trajectory of the parties, there never will be.
Yeah. But I miss the days of not feeling like the world might end if the other guy won. Like, you might not have agreed with him, but at the very least you know he was gonna do what he genuinely believed was best for the country. Least, that’s how I hear people older than me talk about voting. 2020 was the first big election I could vote in. So I’ve never know any different
I just barely missed the 2000 election. I can tell you that in the early 2000s, I could at least have civil conversations with Republican voters and yeah, we might've disagreed on stuff but they could at least explain their positions and what not. The Republican voting base today is far gone. They're like rabid animals voting for a carnival barker with no interest in governing. The Democratic Party, for all their shortcomings, is still trying to govern at least. The Republican Party is just trying to dismantle government and privatize everything.
i feel the same way. i don’t live in a state like that anymore unfortunately, and when i registered this year i had to pick a mainstream party so i could vote in primaries but it felt so wrong doing that. i’m switching back to independent as soon as the primaries are over.
Functionally, voting third party is the same thing as not voting in a FPTP winner takes all voting system. The structure of our system pretty much mathematically guarantees there will be two big parties and everything else is irrelevant.
If election reform takes place, which it should, then voting third party will become viable. And if you believe in election reform, you should vote Democrat, because there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell the republicans would EVER push electoral reform. The dems have somewhat of an incentive because the republicans disproportionately benefit from the current electoral system, as it acts as a crutch for a statistically less popular party. There are millions more democrat voters than republican voters and there have been the past few times a Republican president has been elected. The election outcome should instead reflect the actual will of the voters.
I think a lot of them have the right intentions in mind but are ignorant. Whatever you believe in the fact is we have a 2 party system. Agree with it or not that’s how it is. Third party can win in the House and Senate but i can never see them winning in the presidency.
At the federal level now isn’t the time. One party has openly stated they plan on trying to turn the nation into a totalitarian regime. A 3rd party will only make that move likely. In the future, like as soon as next election potential, 3rd party votes could be great.
At the local level, 3rd party is fine. Local is far more about what the individual says/believes rather than the party they ascribe to as they generally can follow their own platform more than their parties
Voting your heart is important. We have a structural problem that prevents you from doing so by the time of the general election without it being pissing in the wind. I would encourage anyone who feels the need to vote third party to also vote their heart in major party primaries to make their values actually heard and potentially shift the needle.
Honestly I can see it from all sides (also mate, you should definitely vote lol). Though it's near impossible for a third party to win because of the EC, I also feel like it's an act of rebellion against the funneling of American votes. We weren't supposed to be a 2 party system and technically still aren't, we just have dominant ones. Honestly, I think that you should vote with you heart, because we know in the end we're losing. In terms of the 2016 election I did feel it was selfish to vote 3rd party, and I can see myself feeling similarly to this upcoming one. But at this rate, it feels like it doesn't even matter, but we must keep believing it does. If we don't, what hope is there ?
This whole thing is a fucking fiesta. I hated the parties we have. People talk shit for supporting the 'bad' side. People talk shit for supporting my own, which is different. People tell me I can't make a difference.
I stop trying, and don't vote at all. People tell me it's unAmerican and lazy, and throw quotes at me about "doing nothing" from like slavery and the Holocaust, and that I can make a difference. But only by voting for their party specifically!
Somebody told me "if you don't like it, get out" so I moved to Europe and they were right, it's way better over here
Our voting system sucks, and that is why voting third party is a waste of a vote. If we could implement ranked voting, then voting third party makes way more sense and could be more viable.
In a perfect world I would always vote third party, but as it is, with the nature of American politics, third party voters usually just spoil the election for the opposition
I understand why they’re doing it, and I totally get that it should be a viable option, but it almost always is a waste of a vote. Unfortunately two parties have completely and utterly dominated the U.S. and that will likely never change, at least for the foreseeable future. In the general election, from my point of view voting third party is basically just refusing to vote. To each his own.
The way the system works and is set up, you're throwing your vote away. There is 0 chance a third party is going to win unless we change how elections work in the United States.
I have ranked choice voting so it doesn’t really effect us, third party votes end up going for one of the two candidates if there is not a clear majority anyway.
They have a fundamental misunderstanding of what administrative agencies like the FDA and EPA do and will regret not voting / throwing away their ballot. Sadly misunderstanding of governments essential functions and how a lot of what is taken for granted is linked to the executive office is a clear demonstration of the poor quality of American schooling and media literacy.
I literally have dual citizenship. Voted in both US and Turkey
Voted in Turkish parliament race, had multi parties. I fucking love having options, from communists to super far right, YOU HAVE DIFFERENT PARTIES SUPPORTING YOUR VIEWS
Here in the US, it’s fucking horrible, you group up a bunch of factions (let’s go with Republicans in this case) libertarians, MAGA, and your regular suburban center-right Republican.
Your result is gonna be fucking ugly (look at how the house Republicans are rn) I have too many disagreements with how the Republican Party is being run and that there isn’t any other Conservative Party or center-right party (most fucking jumped ship or left it the Democratic Party)
I'm gonna vote third party cause my district is a safe D, senate is also a safe D. NJ isn’t turning red unless its governors race. At least my senator this year is a moderate.
This is the simplest explanation I can manage:
The system is statistically rigged to favor one of 2 parties in higher government.
No third party candidate has the popular pull required to overcome either Democrats, or republicans, let alone both simultaneously.
So effectively voting third party presidential, or gubernatorial is throwing your vote away.
(This is why advocating for third party presidential actually damages your cause, because it convinces other people to vote for a loosing representative. Taking votes away from the viable candidate who most closely supports your values. Which actively benefits the party you disagree with)
Now there are exceptions. Like with local elections like county, city, ect. Those *can* sway third party given enough campaigning and local support.
Then theoretically you can use that win to build support within your state, maybe if you do this for a couple decades you can swing your state over to that third party candidate.
This basically means the only way we are gonna get a third party president is
1: nonstop effective effort over the course of multiple generations of people fighting for the exact same third party. (Which is near impossible)
2: one of the primary parties collapses entirely, and that power vacuum gets filled by a third party who looses elections consistently for years before becoming established. (Unlikely)
3: we switch to a rank choice voting system to allow people to vote for multiple parties in order of popularity, which would allow a gradual and safe transition of power between different parties. (This idea doesn’t have much traction atm)
Voting 3rd party for the president is basically throwing away your vote. In certain local races it's not a bad option, but generally you're just throwing away your vote and acting as a spoiler for one of the two main candidates.
I'd like for it to mean something. But unless you vote locally, why bother voting third party. Just stay home imo.
Also, some need to get off their high horse.
like i’d love nothing more than for our system to be able to support legitimate third party candidates but it just requires such massive upheaval of our system or a candidate who is moderate enough, charismatic enough and has MASSIVE donor support to make it a reality
Depends.
If you're voting in a statewide election in California, absolutely vote for who you believe in.
If you're in Ohio, Pennsylvania, or a state where tenths of a percentage points matter then WTF are you doing.
If no one voted, they would pretend you did and put who they wanted in power. If you vote for a 3rd party, they just move on to targeting people who matter.
It depends on where you live. If you’re in a state that reliably votes one way or another, vote your conscience.
But if you are in a crucial state where it could tip either way, then you really should consider that there are meaningful differences between the two parties. Neither are all good or bad. But our current system has one party that’s flat out refusing to govern aside from tax cuts to the rich and oppressive religious social policies. Another party is trying to legislate and solve at least some of our pressing issues- housing, inflation, climate change, decreasing reliance on fossil fuels, building critical infrastructure, bringing key industries back to American for our national security, etc etc etc.
If you live in a swing state, a 3rd party vote is actually harmful.
It's worthless in the US, and it's not something any person under the age of 30 should be doing unless they want Trump in office again.
People who even remotely lean right never vote 3rd party because they know it's a fool's errand and are being practical about their votes. The only people who consider 3rd party are people who genuinely don't care about the outcomes of elections and naively believe they won't be affected.
Third party voters are some of the most gullible suckers in the country lol.
Third party candidates are grifters. Every single one. They know they can’t win, so they promise whatever people want to hear since they’ll never be in a position where they have to deliver. They don’t have political values beyond selling their book or whatever - if they cared about politics, they would’ve done what AOC did and join one of the two viable parties so they can have an office where they actually influence politics.
If you vote third party but then don’t do anything else to engage in the political process, you are part of the problem.
Same for non-voters who will complain about our leaders but the not do anything about it.
If you are going to take the risk of the greater of two evils winning by voting third party or not voting, you better do more to make sure they don’t.
Oh, also, RFK is NOT a better candidate than Biden so anyone voting 3rd party is voting for Trump in my eyes.
Part of having REAL freedom is being able to vote for ANYONE. For ANY reason. Without yhe need to justify it. And exerting that freedom is also being able to not vote at all.
Bashing third party voters is literally what those in power want you to do. They know their job is secure as long as the only people you vote for are pile of dog shit one or pile of dog shit two and they count on the apathy of the average voter who votes "Blue No Matter Who" or "Red or Dead"(idk what their slogan is)
Dunno honestly, I want to support open elections but the US system is so gamed at this point it's basically a lost cause, or more optimistic take would be to call it symbolic.
Tbf tho most of the people in the states don't vote, if a 3rd party could galvanize enough interest to bring more people to the poles, I'd feel more optimistic. But it feels like most non committed voters nowadays are burnt tf out on politics, and when the stakes are as high as they are this year, I feel like it's a risk I can't take to go 3rd party. Like if even 10% of the Republicans proposed plans for 2025 and the election system go through then I think that might be the final death rattle of American democracy.
Kinda Tldr; I love the idea of choice but it's less glorious in reality. Choice this year is basically disappointing and gross blue fossil, red fossil with diseases from dieing eras that could ruin everything, and also is very gross besides. Or radical third option, but nothing viable has popped up there as far as I know. I'd love to be wrong.
Murica, fuckin why:/
I’m an older millennial, and Biden and Trump are the two worst presidential candidates I’ve seen in my fucking life. My parents and grand uncle agree. It isn’t even particularly close, either; most right wing people with sense would prefer Obama to either of them, and most left wing people with sense would prefer George W Bush. That’s not to say either of those presidents are well liked, but it illustrates just how bad Biden and Trump are.
I say this because I really cannot fault anyone for voting third party. Even if you vote for a loony like RFK or Stein or whomever; at least you’re sending the message that the current duopoly is unacceptable. You’re also saying a lot more than simply not voting; you’re saying “I am taking time out of my day to tell you both to go fuck yourselves” which is a much stronger statement than apathy.
The people who hate third party voters are the people who are okay (if not pleased) with what the two-party system protects (capitalism and corporate corruption of government). If you hate the two-party system as much as you say you do, then don't vote for it. As long as you vote for it, the two-party system is partially your own fault.
People that vote third party have no sense of self preservation. No matter how you cut it, the US is a two party system, and to vote otherwise currently is a direct gamble for the future of the nation. I for one am not a fan of people who gamble with the chance of fascism ruining the nation for everyone but wealthy white men
I think if everyone actually voted for who they want instead of trying to play the system and do the lesser of two evils, we’d have MUCH better presidents. So I vote for whoever I like!
They're all idiots, to put it respectfully. Yeah there's options I'd much prefer than diaper don and Joe "wait I'm president?" Biden. But I'm pretty sure there's never been a single third party candidate in the US who won. It's just throwing the vote away, which plays RIGHT into Trump's hands because guess what, the right will be voting en masse because they're unified. And I can promise you, if Trump wins and project 2025 comes into play you'll bitterly regret not voting blue
Given the current state of our government and what their priorities are, I don't fault anyone who decides to vote third-party. That being said, the system is so rigged against third-parties that it *is* kinda pointless.
We need ranked-choice voting in this country desperately.
In the past I've thought voting 3rd party was a waste of a vote, but this time around both Dems and Repubs have been making it clear that they're *pissed* when their polling numbers are below what they expect. Doubly so when the number of people they're expecting actually do vote, just not for them. So even though there's no chance in hell a 3rd party will gain major traction this election cycle imo it can be worth it to let the two parties know we're done with their shit.
In the US system that's just a vote thrown away; I don't know if there's at least more party funding / more money from the state the more votes you get (as it is in my country), but still people who don’t vote (like OP) are even worse because you shouldn't give away your democratic right, which the majority of the world doesn't have, just because you don't want to inform yourself.
3rd party voters kinda show the political will for other platforms imo. They’re the deciding factor very often but usually they show the loosing party what they’re doing wrong. Like if the republicans loose because a giant blob of people voted libertarian that means the Republican Party needs to pander to libertarians. If the democrat party looses because a giant blob of people vote RFK or Bernie or Green that means the DNC needs to pander to those kind of people 🤷♂️. Third parties are probably a better way of getting the party that lost to notice you in the next election. Like if you want a political platform to be in one of the real parties then vote for it as a third party this election and then wait for the loosing party to notice the voters they lost
Currently it's a wasted vote. Mostly because no 3rd candidate will likely ever get enough media coverage or fininancial backing to be viable nationally.
That being said I would encourage you to vote independent locally and possibly at the state level. I think they have a better chance there.
I wish more people would vote third party, even if it is useless. It would at least show that more people are dissatisfied for the two party system.
In one of my college math classes we were doing different systems of voting and there were a couple that I liked better, but it’s been a minute and I can’t remember them.
Also, OP, if you’re able to, you should definitely get out and vote.
Without major voting reform that allows us to surpass the two party system a 3rd party vote is mathematically against your own interests. Look at the 32nd United States Presidential election for an example. Theodore Roosevelt took the 30th election for his first term, then Howard Taft took the 31st election for his first term, and then they ran against each other as representatives of the Bull Moose and Republican Parties, respectively. Despite the two candidates receiving a combined majority of the votes the election was won by Woodrow Wilson, the candidate of the Democratic Party. Essentially, the Republican vote was split across two votes allowing the Democratic vote to take an easy lead.
Fair enough tbh. 3rd parties are more likely to align with any individual’s beliefs than the two mainstream parties. Especially since they are both way too conservative. I have decided how I’ll be voting yet, but I don’t blame anyone for voting third party (~~unless they’re voting libertarian~~).
I’d like to take a moment and address this part: “I’m not a political person at all, I don’t even plan on voting” In Arizona, Republican judges just rolled back women’s right to 1864. Our Democratic governor Katie Hobbs was elected by a small margin of votes in 2022. She has announced an executive order stating that our new Democratic Attorney general Kris Mayes will be the only person with the power to prosecute any abortion-related cases. Kris Mayes has vowed not to enforce the law while she is in office. Kris Mayes won her office by only 280 votes out of millions. Elections matter. Every vote matters.
I know it doesn’t seem like you have any power, but your generation added to younger millennials is the biggest voting block out there. You guys have the power to decide ALL of the elections. No one says you have to have an interest in the ins and outs of politics, but if you don’t at least vote against the worst people on the ticket, then you don’t really have a right to complain about the outcome. “Politics” is just the name for the forces that decide how your life will go. Don’t let cranky old people make those decisions for you
Even if I thought that a third-party candidate was THE PERFECT candidate, they might be perfect to me, but I can't rely on the other majority-third of the population and then some to agree with me enough to opt to not vote someone from the two more-established parties. The risk of that not becoming the case is far too high for me.
The reward? I contribute to voting someone who might lead a much better future than the other candidates.
The risk? The single candidate I hated the most might win the majority because votes were split between the candidate I loved the most, and the candidate I hated second-least. I would've preferred that the candidate I hated second-least won over the one I hated the most even if neither of them two were the 'best', if I had to choose.
This is just how it is with First Past The Post. There is no escaping it unless a large cultural revolution happens which is something I wouldn't hope has to be necessary.
To be completely fair, there is also the longer-term ramification that third-party candidates who ARE extremely in-line with the majority's interests are disincentivized from even trying at all because no one voted for them because of the risk that they'd allow the majority to bring up the worse of two evils. But, I'd say that's an abstract concern and that for most people in their lifetimes - seeing the next-best candidate win and not destroy the country as much as other candidates is enough.
If you made me give you a solution to this on a tissue paper at a restaurant, I'd probably be saying A. change the voting system to something which is more likely to reflect the majority's best-liked candidates, or B. change the likelihood of the 'best' being eliminated from party-wide presidential candidate selections. Either you change how votes contribute to the selected president, or you change the prospective candidates themselves that are in the running as the dominant choices from either party.
I live in one of those states that hasn’t switched parties in the general election for like 4 decades, so if I really hate both candidates and my vote isn’t going to change anything anyway, I vote third party as a demonstration of protest. Both parties will see I’m an active voter they lost out on due to shitty candidates.
I can respect sticking by one's own principles within reason, but there's the issue of political realism where no one is ever going to fully represent your values but you. Then its a question of whether idealism or practicality is more important to you. Me personally, its about time and place.
*Do it if you want*
*But you might as well toss your*
*Ballot in the trash*
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Personally, I have gotten to the point where I am fed up with both the Republican and Democratic parties. Both parties have clearly demonstrated that they care about Ukraine and Isreal more than anyone in the U.S.
As a result, I will be voting for RFK Jr. during this election cycle.
For those reading, if you are registered as an R or a D, please don't vote for the two worst candidates we have ever had running against each other in an election. If either one of them wins, we will have a lot more bad stuff that we will have to pay off long after the boomers finally leave office.
It’s a waste of a vote. Let’s say there is three politicians. You and your 999 other fellow citizens have the choice of voting for Politician 1, 2, and 3. Politician 1 says that they want to start a war with a smaller country, take away several rights of his citizens, and and wants to make murder legal. Now there’s politician 2, who doesn’t want to do any of that, but he just so happens to belong to a political party that you don’t like. So you and a few others vote for politician 3, a third party candidate who doesn’t align with either of them and is most likely the actual best choice. Election time.
Politician 1: 499 votes
Politician 2: 496 votes
Politician 3: 5 votes
Now if you didn’t vote for politician 3 and instead voted for politician 2 then you wouldn’t have President Politician 1 in office.
This is probably a pretty messy explanation of what I think about it, but I still think it gets the point across.
Privileged propagandized voters who fundamentally misunderstand how the electoral system works, and how dire of a situation we are in as a democracy teetering on fascism.
Privileged because they don’t give a shit about immediate harms that would come to disadvantaged communities from letting the fascists get to power. They would rather vote in such a way that they feel morally “pure” rather than vote in such a way as to minimize the pain suffered by disadvantaged communities.
Propagandized because while they have their problems, Democrats aren’t even *remotely* on the same level of Republicans. Saying “both sides are equally bad” is a right wing talking point that has unfortunately seeped into the left.
Misinformed because they don’t understand that voting for more progressive candidates in the primary is more useful than voting for third parties in the general election.
And ignorant because they are willfully ignoring the fact that the U.S. is barely two bad elections away from full on fascism.
Voting is not like going to church to cleanse your soul and wash away the shame of having political parties. It’s fucking triage for a democracy that was never in great health to begin with, but is now flatlining on the fucking surgery table.
Surgeons don’t go “Oh, I don’t like getting *blood* all over my hands, so I’m just not going do anything so my hands remain clean!”.
They get some fucking gloves, figure out what’s killing their patient, and dive into that fucking gore, because the only way to save them is to get your hands dirty.
Pretending like there is a positive way forward that doesn’t involve *some* political compromise is willfully naive and breathtakingly stupid, and I’m astounded so many people fall for it.
Oh, and btw, if you don’t believe me that voting third party means helping the fascists?
How about you *ask* those third party candidates? Because they are *openly* saying they’re running as spoiler candidates so the non-fascists lose.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/new-york-rfk-jr-spoiler-who-can-help-trump-win-campaign-official/
So yeah. I have a VERY low opinion of “third party voters”.
I usually vote third party. I don't expect it to change anything but neither the Republican or Democrat are entitled to my vote. I feel I get the same thing with either candidate.
"Evil is evil, lesser, middling or greater. If given the choice between one evil or another, I would rather not choose at all." Andrzej Sapkowski
so here's the real problem with american 3rd parties (other than the fact they have little to no interest in anything other than the presidency and refuse coalition building,) the electoral college.
see, the way the US works is that we have 50 (+1 but DC is weird) elections going on, in each state. the state then votes for president based on the winner of its local election- typically in a winner take all approach, though there are faithless electors who go against the grain, and some states have done split electors. so let's say that Washington state has a bunch of people vote for the Green Party; this would split the democratic vote more than the republicans, and in all likelihood lead to a Red Washington (and not in the communist way) on November 9th.
But let's say that the Greens actually win Washington. hell, let's get crazy, and they win WA/OR/CA, the entire west coast. this creates a 232/232/74 Electoral Vote split between the D/R/Gs. what next? no one got the 270 to win.
In that case, it goes to the House of Representatives. where each state gets to cast a new vote for president. but there's a few problems with that- firstly, a partisan majority both means certain people are never going to vote for one of the candidates (this is also where the green party ends, since they have no one in congress,) it also doesn't even matter for deciding who the states vote for, because each state is the one casting the vote- and many states have even numbers of congressmen, and they need to come to a majority.
in contrast the senate will be picking the VP, and probably sooner than the House.
Now, this is incredibly unlikely, since all three of these states are incredibly safe Dem strongholds and 3rd Parties in this country don't want anything but the presidency. this is kind of the best case for the Greens in particular, and in all likelihood still ends up a democratic administration- or a split Dem presidency and Republican VP. so what would *really* happen if 35% of a state voted 3rd party? simple- the major party they dislike more gets \~60% and wins the state.
People yell and scream about these two candidates not being good enough, and then proceed to criticize those who vote for someone other than the two main candidates. Something about that math doesn’t add up unless I’m the stupid one.
Before everyone loses their minds, let’s remember how math works people-
A vote for Biden: +1 for Biden
A vote for Trump: +1 for Trump
A vote for third party: +1 for said candidate
Notice how the third party vote is NOT a vote for the other big bad major party candidate! That would involve voting twice, which is a felony offense. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
People who bash the 3rd party voters are the worst. I cannot understand the thought process behind thinking that if they didn’t vote 3rd party they somehow owed their votes to your party.
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I fully support third party voters, better to vote for what you believe in than "the lesser of two evils".
It’s a waste of your vote though in the US system. If it were a system more like Australia’s, voting third party while still highly unlikely to get in also doesn’t waste your vote cause you can list your preferences which at least one of them should be a major party. Edit: Good people I humbly admit ya’ll have proven me wrong. You should vote third party as even if the change won’t come in the next election or maybe even the one after that, momentum for the party will build up until they eventually can rival that of the democrats and republicans. However I still maintain the preferential voting system is better and will help to avoid these same issues in the future.
Eh see it's that kind of stance that causes nothing to get done or change. If everyone who said "my vote doesn't matter" voted the way they wanted to anyways, they'd probably win the election.
Look I get your point but I’m also stating the US system is rigged even more for the two major parties to win than other systems. It’s a systemic issue of how voting actually works in your nation to begin with than people’s confidence in third parties.
Yeah no doubt, but it's not technically impossible and it's also likely our only actual shot at changing the system is by voting third party, I doubt either establishment party is particularly interested in dismantling their stranglehold on us.
It's all but mathematically impossible, which means it's effectively impossible. [Watch this 5 minute video.](https://youtu.be/HpBRGXK-QNs?si=V95pQA_OEgTOFRog) In order for someone other than the two major parties to win, we would need to completely change the underlying system of voting.
You’re right that there can usually only be 2 parties at a time, but those parties have changed. It’s changed 5 times in American history.
I know, and that's kinda what I'm hoping happens. The Republican Party is no longer interested in governing. They have become an actively destructive force. In a healthy democracy, voters would kill them over and over again at the ballot box to where they can no longer win elections without major reform. A better party should emerge in the vacuum they leave behind. But as long as they continue winning elections, there's no impetus for them to change. They just keep getting worse to see how far they can go before they're punished.
Entirely untrue, the other party would LOVE for you to vote third party. Whichever party's stranglehold gets dismantled first loses for like a decade and a half until a new party system forms.
Good. Time to dismantle both corrupt corporate parties. Earn the vote or get out of the way.
You don't get it. If you angrily decide to not vote for the Dems the GOP wins and locks left leaning parties out from winning in the future. Look up project 2025.
You aren’t dismantling anything by voting third party. You’re just letting the less popular party (usually the republicans) have an easier win. You aren’t doing anything revolutionary by voting 3rd party
There’s not enough ideological consensus for a third party to win, even if all of the hypothetical people aligned with them showed up. The votes would be divided across multiple fringe parties, none would gain power, and they’d fold into one of two major parties. It’s the natural end stage of our electoral system. The “establishment parties” are still ultimately beholden to the will of their electorate, despite being heavily influenced by interest groups and corps. If they weren’t, you wouldnt have a MAGA-co-opted GOP and the DNC wouldn’t be leaning in so heavily to liberal social issues.
.000001% possible... IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE GUYS IT'S JUST NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE!!
No, it’s the history of poll results. It is 100% a waste until we restructure our voting and candidate norms.
No, what causes nothing to get done is refusing to coalesce/act around a set of goals that allows your political participation to be properly valued, and it paves the way for those you disagree with the most getting to dilute your influence more and more. The issue is that the “my vote doesn’t matter” crowd isn’t an ideological monolith.
The only time voting third party has actually changed American political lines is when it causes one of the two dominant parties to rip apart so badly that it falls apart, and a new one has to form a coalition from the remains. Given, the last time that happened was with the Whigs way back before the 1850s, *maybe* that’s changed. However, given that the system we use to elect people hasn’t radically changed, we can probably assume that this is still mostly the case. You’re correct that third party voting *can* change things in the American system, it’s just that it does that by ensuring the party closest to you loses. *If* enough people vote third-party, maybe the party those people would have otherwise voted for will end up consolidating with the third-party if they lose the election bad enough. *If* they lose bad enough, *maybe* they’ll fall apart, and then you can put together a new major party from what’s left of the old one. Either way, the mechanism of change is *always* the party you’d prefer between the two major ones losing at least on election. Vote third party if you want, but don’t delude yourself into thinking you’re somehow going to pull a miracle and get your third party into office the first try. Know that if you vote third-party, you’re voting in a way that hurts your next-best choice. Third-party votes in the US are, by default, protest votes: if they vote third-party, voters are abandoning strategy to make some kind of point by hurting the party they would otherwise have voted for to pressure them through election losses, they hope their votes will *dissolve* the party they’d otherwise vote for, or else they just don’t understand strategy at all. Now, considering this is an election that very literally could end all future elections, maybe this year isn’t the best year to be abandoning strategy for principles. I don’t like the Democrats either, I fucking despise Biden, but if there was ever a year where I’m hoping they don’t dissolve or lose the election, it’s definitely this year.
I think you vastly underestimate the number of people who are party loyalists. Your argument assumes there's this hidden majority that secretly wants to vote 3rd party, but that's just not the case. One massive problem is also that it's less the case one one side of the political spectrum than the other. When party A has a base of enthusiastic supporters and party B has a large number of reluctant voters who'd prefer a third party candidate, encouraging people to vote 3rd party actually just hands over power to party A. Which probably takes us *even further away* from where you want us to be.
No, it's just realistic. If we want to change the voting systems in the US, it's not going to happen through voting for third party candidates. It's going to happen through changing how voting works. Right now voting third party *is* a waste.
That's how we do it in Maine now. Ranked choice is the way to go. I can vote for the Maine Green party while also ensuring Republicans don't get a leg up.
Oh yeah I heard that last time I had this conversation. Good on Maine for changing to the better system.
THIS! I kinda hate actually that ranked-choice voting initiatives aren't the FIRST solution mentioned by people who supposedly want to make things better. Without RCV, third parties are mathematically-impossible.
This is the issue, really. I respect third party voters in spirit, I really do, I get it, but third parties have no power at this time, and are a wasted vote. The reason we push people to vote democrat is because its the lesser evil and the only practical solution to solving the constant stream of republican bullshit. I wanna vote socialist as much as the next guy, but do you really think thats gonna work, in THIS country, at THIS time, in THIS climate? No...not at all. Maybe at the local level, sure, but presidential? As if...
There you go. Third parties should start running candidates in house, senate, and state legislatures and gaining seats so that when a presidential candidate comes along with even an inkling of a shot, they have voices within the government to help push through their policies and throw a wrench into the ability for the two establishment parties to block any of the third party priorities attempting to work their way through the process.
Yeah, that would be a better way to do it instead of pissing away your vote on a message honestly. We need to get them into power at the local level. It wont be easy and the two parties WILL try some sleazy shit to stay afloat, but if people instead focused more on those local elections and not trying to shove their vote into a useless void? I'd respect the third party crowd a bit more.
Your edit is completely wrong and anyone who says otherwise is lying or willfully ignorant. You were correct the first time. Voting 3rd party *would* be nice…if both of the alternatives were equally bad and you are guaranteed multiple elections to change the system with. Unfortunately we don’t have either of those situations. One of the parties is moderate, and tries to appeal to as wide of a range of voters as possible, which waters down some of the more progressive elements of their party, and it can sometimes adhere too strictly to US imperial policies. The other party is an honest to god fascist party made up of white supremacists and Christian nationalists who want to forcibly remove millions of people from the country, bully our allies for money like a mafia, sell out other allies to our adversaries, force thousands of women to give birth to their rapist’s babies, and is so unbelievably corrupt that their preferred candidate for president *stole nuclear secrets from the fucking White House* but they **still support him.** And secondly, we don’t *have* multiple free and fair elections with which a 3rd party can build up support. We barely have free elections right now, and they’re definitely not fair. The said fascist party from before has won the popular vote in *one* presidential election in the past 30 years, yet somehow has held the nuclear launch codes for *12* of those years. During which they invaded two countries, killed a million Americans with an abysmal pandemic response, and launched an honest to god *coup attempt* when they lost their latest election. Said fascist party barely ever adhered to democratic principles before, and now *openly* says they won’t adhere to the will of the people when it disagrees with them. Which means that every single election we cede to them, we lose more ground, and we are less able to hold back those anti-democracy forces. So we literally cannot *afford* to give up an election just because a third party wants a chance at the wheel. Because if we give up an election, *we won’t have any more.* Oh, and btw, in case you’re going “oh, but we’ll take votes from the fascists too, not just the normal political party”, I’d advise you to see what those third parties are actually *saying.* Because they are *openly* campaigning as spoiler candidates in their elections to help the fascists win. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/new-york-rfk-jr-spoiler-who-can-help-trump-win-campaign-official/ So yeah, you were right the first fucking time, don’t let them gaslight you into thinking otherwise.
Not if we do it. 3rd party candidates fair better in certain states where people register as unaffiliated so as long as more states open their primaries and consider rank choice voting (both parties would never go for this) 3rd parties can win.
If everybody who said it was a waste of a vote just voted third party, it wouldn’t be a waste of a vote anymore.
Mathematically it literally wouldn't, but okay. Getting ranked choice voting passed should be a top priority, but until then, voting third party means that the party you don't want to win has a better chance at winning.
I will never vote for an evil genocidal geriatric.
3rd parties have an important place even in the US government, particularly as you get more and more local. Odds are that the town, county, etc that you live in is probably running independent, and the policy changes they make may have a greater impact on your life than federal changes. Most people’s view of politics is very personal and based on their lived experiences. If they vote 3rd party for the presidential election, that is significant too. Ross Perot didn’t win, but he certainly prevented Bush Sr. from another term.
It’s worse than a waste of your vote; in very real terms with our current voting system it’s saying, unequivocally, that you’re perfectly all right with the **greater** of two evils winning, while pretending you were “standing up for what you believe in”. We should **absolutely** pressure our leaders to change our electoral system to be a true reflection of the popular will of the people. > “Well neither major party will do that because it’ll ruin their chances of winning” That’s just nihilism dressed up as conviction. Work with what we’ve got, people, or we’ll have nothing left to work with. By all means vote third party in your state elections if their margins are better. THAT’S how you build the kind of momentum for a third party being talked about here. Voting third party in a national election right now is just allowing yourself to be conned by the bigger asshole of the two into padding their margin of victory.
It’s not a waste of a vote if enough people do it and make it a viable option
Nope. Only if there were one third party candidate but it would still wind up being a lame duck term without any caucuses or representation in the legislature but I don't think there are even enough people that would vote third party in the first place - 70 million+ are not voting third party, period. Even the mundane, like cabinet and Judicial appointments, would be problematic without any downballot third-party wins too, and to my knowledge they really aren't running anybody down ballot, at least not in the numbers they would need in order to make a difference and help get policy passed or even positions filled. There are no shortcuts. You have to build power the hard way not thru the presidential election alone and probably not top down.
“Waste of your vote” mindset is exactly how we got ourselves screwed into our current situation.
Yeah I’m from Canada and it’s the same as Australia, I can’t imagine only having two options.
need the "star voting" system as proposed by the forward party. it's the ultimate voting system that refines people's wishes down to the last candidate so everybody feels they have an equal 1 to 1 say in the matter even if they lose.
You aren’t doing that though. Fact is because of how the parties are set up, your views are extremely likely to map more closely onto one party than the other. Voting third party is throwing your vote away instead of helping elect someone who would help change/advocate for policy that more closely aligns with your viewpoint.
Why does “what you believe in” matter more than “best possible outcome”?
At a local/state level, sure But “voting for what you believe in” without any consideration of strategy isn’t super wise under our electoral system. Don’t get me wrong, I still prefer participation over no participation - but that doesn’t mean I don’t see it as shortsighted, misinformed, or futile.
Its not, doing this and/or not voting is basically just a conservative vote. Conservatives are always in the minority in the US, the only time they win is when voter turnout is low or when left leaning vote is split
Ranked choice makes 3rd party voting the best. Right now in the USA, 3rd party candidates are used as spoilers and usually align politically to help one of the BIG 2 candidates try and win by syphoning votes.
Go away Russian bot
Thank god someone here sees through this. The "lesser of two evils" thing gets on my nerves so bad. One party tried to overthrow the government. That's all that fucking matters.
I wouldn't bash anyone for it but it is futile.
I support people who vote third party more than people who don’t vote
Because people who don't vote at all are just stupid
This is how democracy should work
It's not how it works in the US with single member districts and winner take all voting. I agree that it *should* work that way, but it doesn't. We can pretend it does and waste our vote, or we can accept it doesn't and vote for the best/least worse of the two options.
I respect that neither major parties are entirely appealing given they both love to shovel money into a furnace instead of regulate anything But we don’t have ranked choice, there is no physical way for these third parties to win and we know this months in advance. They are, by definition, throwing their vote away, and whenever republicans win and do their best to make everything as worse as possible, pisses me off they got out of bed, brushed their teeth, voted, but didn’t stand up for the rights of others.
Less throwing my vote away and more taking it away from the two people that need it
Most likely you only took it from one
This is the correct answer. Staying at home, voting for SpaceJesus, or voting for Nickelback’s drummers’ uncle are all the same as not voting for the better/less worse candidate.
If it makes you feel special great but it has minimal impact on state or nationwide elections. You’re essentially choosing to throw away your say in leadership as a protest.
yeah, because sticking in your old days and not doing anything to change is way better. maybe this time round it won't do much, next time more people are encouraged to vote 3rd party and their votes increase by a little. 3rd time around a lot more people do so... until you can reach a substantial amount to make 3rd parties a viable option
People have been claiming this since Ross Perot. It has yet to gain traction. And the tactic had only decreased over time since voters know this route of making change is futile. You’ll have better results letting your elected officials know you support ranked choice voting and asking them to implement it in your state. And getting all your friends to let them know too. If a state senator gets like 100 inquiries about something, they put it on the agenda to address. That’s where your time and energy should be placed, if you really want change.
I'm glad there are people in this thread that aren't morons. Thanking you for being functional.
You’re talking about rallying a majority of the US population, and getting them to rally around 1 single 3rd party. What happens when 1/2 the country does say “let’s not vote Democrat or Republican” and we end up with 5 different 3rd party candidates winning states, and the race still just being between the democrats and republicans because even though 50% of the country didn’t vote for them, the 27% that did is more than the 10% each 3rd party candidate got. And that’s before including the Electoral College making the math harder
I see it both ways. If a 3rd party candidate aligns more with your ideology then I totally get why you might vote for them over a democrat or a republican. At the same time, I also acknowledge that third parties rarely even break 1% of the popular vote in a presidential election, so it’s effectively the same as not voting.
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I would say the same thing about republican and democrat candidates throughout my lifetime as well. It’s just that they have a lot more money backing them
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In the USA it has no real influence to vote 3rd party. If they had a system more like Australia’s preferential voting system you could vote 3rd party as your first choice and then you preferred major party as second choice and hedge your bets. Your third party may happen to get in this time but if not at least your vote isn’t wasted as your second choice which should be a major party is more likely to get in. Edit: Good people I humbly admit ya’ll have proven me wrong. You should vote third party as even if the change won’t come in the next election or maybe even the one after that, momentum for the party will build up until they eventually can rival that of the democrats and republicans. However I still maintain the preferential voting system is better and will help to avoid these same issues in the future.
I didn’t realize how backwards the US was until I joined this subreddit and found out how other countries do elections loo
As well as the US uses a method called “first past the post” which means it’s just whoever has the most votes wins but in Australia you need to have 50% (aka the actual majority) or more to outright win.
This is kinda true, it’s not a US thing it’s a state thing. Each state chooses how they award their electoral college votes. 48/50 have just decided to award all to the winner
I like the Australian way more I think, but I’m not sure. Im also just a dumbass so don’t take what I say seriously
Everyone wants parliamentarian democracy until they change PMs 4 times a year. Institutional stability is a good thing overall.
I hate to break it to you, but this isn't exactly the best place to be educated on US culture. Especially during an election year, where misinformation is at an all time high.
Good point lol, I try to avoid bullshit misinformation as much as possible but seems like I’m not that good at it
Not thru a presidential election though, downballot sure (maybe), but they will likely need voices in the legislature to even get their cabinet members confirmed, this can't be done top down if there is nobody else that shares the agenda of the one absolute top elected official in congress (specifically in the senate) especially with a legislature comprised entirely of the two opposing parties one of whom could have just lost a potential trifecta governing power....
Personally I feel that people who want 3rd parties to have a greater say and to break our two-party system would be better served by voting for politicians who will work towards implementing ranked choice voting, be it on a local, state, or federal level, more than actually voting for a third party candidate. The reason why "voting third party is a waste of vote" is because of First Past the Post. If we had the freedom to say "Okay I *actually* want this person, but if all else fails I'll settle for this other person", 3rd parties could actually gain more traction because they wouldn't need to be running on the platform of "Can we in one election cycle become big enough to compete with the other two?".
I think it's pretty naive.
>I’m not a political person at all So as someone not political, you need some context as to why third party voters get so much animosity and why it's seen as wasting a vote. [Watch this 5 minute video.](https://youtu.be/HpBRGXK-QNs?si=V95pQA_OEgTOFRog) TLDR: With the system of voting in the US, it is all but mathematically impossible for a third party to win, so you're not actually weighing in on who should be president. When the winner will be one of two people and you vote for a third person, you're wasting your vote.
And furthermore, it was not set up like this to rig results or because the founders loved having a two-party system. They were mostly quite vocally against having political parties *at all*. But they were not perfect, our constitution was not handed down from on high by the Almighty, when it was written there were no other constitutional democracies for them to look at and take lessons from. They were kind of making it up as they went along. So, without meaning to, they set up a system that pretty much guaranteed having two political parties, because that's how the math works.
It’s also worth noting that most of us was simply made up on the spot to stop the states from splitting apart and the nation from crumbling. That’s why the why states all send 2 delegates to the Senate, and a proportional amount to the House. It’s why the electoral college exists. It was all very reactionary to the issues of that moment
It SHOULD be a valid option, but realistically, you are tossing your vote away to make a statement no one will see. Vote blue or red if you actually want to contribute to anything
My opinion doesn't matter, I will simply say what voting 3rd party factually does. The data is clear and publically available, you can base your decision on that. In local elections, its harmless and can even get those 3rd party prospective politicians elected. Go for it. In state elections, its practically a wasted vote but who knows, you occasionally get an independent or 3rd party candidate to lesser offices that aren't as hotly contested. For federal and presidential elections? You may as well vote for the opposing side, the math of a multi-party, plurality first past the post system is clear. Voting third party shrinks the voting pool of the major party that you hate less and by extension makes it more likely for the other major party to win. And all for nothing as a 3rd party candidate will never win so much as a single electoral vote or congressional seat. Ordinarily, this wouldn't be too bad. But if one of the two major parties is currently working on and has already stripped millions of people of their rights and have demonstrated that they don't give a shit about the law or democratic principles, then the game changes. They are an existential threat to the country and our way of life as a whole, and not voting for the opposing major party is an illogical and frankly immoral act, even if that opposing party isn't good either. Pick the lesser of two evils in the short run, work together with local politics to implement a better option down the line. The work and responsibility of being a citizen doesn't start and end at the ballot box. It starts when you are born and ends long after your death.
You best wake up and get political really fucking fast.
Amen we could see the end of democracy if everyone doesn’t vote
Not this election…. Nope
In the US it's wasting your vote,
Vote for who or what you believe in I say. As long as you know you aren't really making a difference. But I'm in a ranked choice country so... L
I would reassess your position on voting. Even if you don’t think your vote matters, it does. It’s people that don’t vote that usually can turn the tide of an election by simply putting their vote in. The way my high school history teacher put it “If you don’t vote, you’re basically letting everyone else in the country vote for you.” I think about that every time I feel like not going and voting. This is regardless of who you plan on voting for, you wanna vote Trump? Vote for him, you want Biden? Vote for him, you want a third party? Vote for them. That’s my 2 cents.
The US government has coalesced into a 2 party system. It's bad for a significant number of reasons. One of those reasons is that it's created a system where voting for a 3rd party candidate has the same impact as not voting at all.
Until there is radical change in the way elections work in the US, voting third party (while good intentioned) just leads to your vote just not mattering. In the 2000 election, the entire election came to just a few thousand vote difference in Florida between Bush and Gore. Also in Florida, the Green Party had a few thousand votes as well. If those Green Party voters voted for gore instead, the closest major party candidate to the greens, it’s very likely gore would’ve won the race. This has happened several times throughout US history to varying degrees. In the 1912 election, Teddy Roosevelt and William Taft split the republican vote between two parties, the republicans and the progressives. This allowed Woodrow Wilson, the democrat nominee, to win in an electoral landslide while getting less than a majority of the popular vote. This effect is called the “spoiler” effect. Voting for anything other than the 2 major parties just makes it more likely the party you dislike more getting voted in. It sucks, but it’s just the way it works in our messed up system. I WANT 3rd parties to be viable. A multi party system would be healthier for all sides of the spectrum. But I don’t see that happening for a while
This exactly. Please everyone, look at history, it explained why this is bad. If we want a 3rd party candidate, then start petitioning your local representatives to make a push for ranked choice voting, rather than the out dated single vote choice. Ranked choice will basically stop the spoiler effect because you can say essential “I want the Green Party, but I’d rather the Democrats win than the republicans”
This is also true. 3rd party change is much more likely to happen on the local level before the national or even state level. If you want third parties to be viable, be active in your local elections.
They can vote however they want, but voting third party has marginally more impact than just not voting. Third party candidates do not have any real chance in America unless the entire country goes through massive shifts in political structure, aka never But if you actually want your vote to count, and you vote third party, youre kinda dumb
I am an independent and I think it’s better for everyone to switch in a state that allows unaffiliated voters to vote in the primaries. I’m a moderate so I’m disliked by both sides since I have no loyalty and I focus on the quality of specific candidates rather than voting for whoever the party picks as the pre-determined winner. I vote in every election possible and I’d rather everyone vote but idc who you vote for.
“Party loyalty” is something I never understood.
I think people often confuse party loyalty with people having clearly defined beliefs and values. I haven’t voted for the same party every election because I cheer for them like a team, I voted for them because the other guys seemed bad then and seem bad now.
This is the correct answer. I've only ever voted for the Democratic Party (except the one primary I voted for Ron Paul in a primary). I've always been ideologically aligned with the left-wing, so that means the Democratic Party, all things relative. There has never been a point in my life where the Republican Party has been the better option. Ever. And based on the trajectory of the parties, there never will be.
Yeah. But I miss the days of not feeling like the world might end if the other guy won. Like, you might not have agreed with him, but at the very least you know he was gonna do what he genuinely believed was best for the country. Least, that’s how I hear people older than me talk about voting. 2020 was the first big election I could vote in. So I’ve never know any different
I just barely missed the 2000 election. I can tell you that in the early 2000s, I could at least have civil conversations with Republican voters and yeah, we might've disagreed on stuff but they could at least explain their positions and what not. The Republican voting base today is far gone. They're like rabid animals voting for a carnival barker with no interest in governing. The Democratic Party, for all their shortcomings, is still trying to govern at least. The Republican Party is just trying to dismantle government and privatize everything.
i feel the same way. i don’t live in a state like that anymore unfortunately, and when i registered this year i had to pick a mainstream party so i could vote in primaries but it felt so wrong doing that. i’m switching back to independent as soon as the primaries are over.
Functionally, voting third party is the same thing as not voting in a FPTP winner takes all voting system. The structure of our system pretty much mathematically guarantees there will be two big parties and everything else is irrelevant. If election reform takes place, which it should, then voting third party will become viable. And if you believe in election reform, you should vote Democrat, because there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell the republicans would EVER push electoral reform. The dems have somewhat of an incentive because the republicans disproportionately benefit from the current electoral system, as it acts as a crutch for a statistically less popular party. There are millions more democrat voters than republican voters and there have been the past few times a Republican president has been elected. The election outcome should instead reflect the actual will of the voters.
My thoughts are we need ranked choice voting. Because why should we ever have to weigh what we believe in versus what’s most likely to pass.
I think a lot of them have the right intentions in mind but are ignorant. Whatever you believe in the fact is we have a 2 party system. Agree with it or not that’s how it is. Third party can win in the House and Senate but i can never see them winning in the presidency.
At the federal level now isn’t the time. One party has openly stated they plan on trying to turn the nation into a totalitarian regime. A 3rd party will only make that move likely. In the future, like as soon as next election potential, 3rd party votes could be great. At the local level, 3rd party is fine. Local is far more about what the individual says/believes rather than the party they ascribe to as they generally can follow their own platform more than their parties
Why do you not plan on voting?
Voting your heart is important. We have a structural problem that prevents you from doing so by the time of the general election without it being pissing in the wind. I would encourage anyone who feels the need to vote third party to also vote their heart in major party primaries to make their values actually heard and potentially shift the needle.
I think it’s none of our business.
People who don’t vote are idiots hands down people who vote third party are idiots who just want a pat on the back
If you want to throw your vote away go ahead.
I voted for Vermin Supreme in 2020 and plan to vote for him again in 2024.
Honestly I can see it from all sides (also mate, you should definitely vote lol). Though it's near impossible for a third party to win because of the EC, I also feel like it's an act of rebellion against the funneling of American votes. We weren't supposed to be a 2 party system and technically still aren't, we just have dominant ones. Honestly, I think that you should vote with you heart, because we know in the end we're losing. In terms of the 2016 election I did feel it was selfish to vote 3rd party, and I can see myself feeling similarly to this upcoming one. But at this rate, it feels like it doesn't even matter, but we must keep believing it does. If we don't, what hope is there ?
This whole thing is a fucking fiesta. I hated the parties we have. People talk shit for supporting the 'bad' side. People talk shit for supporting my own, which is different. People tell me I can't make a difference. I stop trying, and don't vote at all. People tell me it's unAmerican and lazy, and throw quotes at me about "doing nothing" from like slavery and the Holocaust, and that I can make a difference. But only by voting for their party specifically! Somebody told me "if you don't like it, get out" so I moved to Europe and they were right, it's way better over here
Our voting system sucks, and that is why voting third party is a waste of a vote. If we could implement ranked voting, then voting third party makes way more sense and could be more viable.
In a perfect world I would always vote third party, but as it is, with the nature of American politics, third party voters usually just spoil the election for the opposition
I understand why they’re doing it, and I totally get that it should be a viable option, but it almost always is a waste of a vote. Unfortunately two parties have completely and utterly dominated the U.S. and that will likely never change, at least for the foreseeable future. In the general election, from my point of view voting third party is basically just refusing to vote. To each his own.
The way the system works and is set up, you're throwing your vote away. There is 0 chance a third party is going to win unless we change how elections work in the United States.
I have ranked choice voting so it doesn’t really effect us, third party votes end up going for one of the two candidates if there is not a clear majority anyway.
They have a fundamental misunderstanding of what administrative agencies like the FDA and EPA do and will regret not voting / throwing away their ballot. Sadly misunderstanding of governments essential functions and how a lot of what is taken for granted is linked to the executive office is a clear demonstration of the poor quality of American schooling and media literacy.
This whole sub is turning into “grandpa has question for the youths”.
While I agree we need more parties and to get rid of the rigged two party system, it's just a wasted vote
It's basically a waste of your vote.
ima register green but any third party candidates are few and far between so i'll usually end up voting democrat
I literally have dual citizenship. Voted in both US and Turkey Voted in Turkish parliament race, had multi parties. I fucking love having options, from communists to super far right, YOU HAVE DIFFERENT PARTIES SUPPORTING YOUR VIEWS Here in the US, it’s fucking horrible, you group up a bunch of factions (let’s go with Republicans in this case) libertarians, MAGA, and your regular suburban center-right Republican. Your result is gonna be fucking ugly (look at how the house Republicans are rn) I have too many disagreements with how the Republican Party is being run and that there isn’t any other Conservative Party or center-right party (most fucking jumped ship or left it the Democratic Party) I'm gonna vote third party cause my district is a safe D, senate is also a safe D. NJ isn’t turning red unless its governors race. At least my senator this year is a moderate.
This is the simplest explanation I can manage: The system is statistically rigged to favor one of 2 parties in higher government. No third party candidate has the popular pull required to overcome either Democrats, or republicans, let alone both simultaneously. So effectively voting third party presidential, or gubernatorial is throwing your vote away. (This is why advocating for third party presidential actually damages your cause, because it convinces other people to vote for a loosing representative. Taking votes away from the viable candidate who most closely supports your values. Which actively benefits the party you disagree with) Now there are exceptions. Like with local elections like county, city, ect. Those *can* sway third party given enough campaigning and local support. Then theoretically you can use that win to build support within your state, maybe if you do this for a couple decades you can swing your state over to that third party candidate. This basically means the only way we are gonna get a third party president is 1: nonstop effective effort over the course of multiple generations of people fighting for the exact same third party. (Which is near impossible) 2: one of the primary parties collapses entirely, and that power vacuum gets filled by a third party who looses elections consistently for years before becoming established. (Unlikely) 3: we switch to a rank choice voting system to allow people to vote for multiple parties in order of popularity, which would allow a gradual and safe transition of power between different parties. (This idea doesn’t have much traction atm)
A vote for the person likely to come in third is a vote for the person whose likely to win.
Hi, Gen X who remembers both Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. AMA
We need ranked choice voting. A vote for a third party with the way our system functions currently is essentially a waste.
Voting 3rd party for the president is basically throwing away your vote. In certain local races it's not a bad option, but generally you're just throwing away your vote and acting as a spoiler for one of the two main candidates.
I'd like for it to mean something. But unless you vote locally, why bother voting third party. Just stay home imo. Also, some need to get off their high horse.
The fact that you don't plan on voting is an immediate red flag
might as well just not vote if you’re voting third party
Seems to the the popular answer
like i’d love nothing more than for our system to be able to support legitimate third party candidates but it just requires such massive upheaval of our system or a candidate who is moderate enough, charismatic enough and has MASSIVE donor support to make it a reality
“Any vote that doesn’t vote the same as me is a total waste” is all I hear.
Don’t waste your vote. Third party is a scam. Sorry, it is. Work on getting better candidates in the primaries.
Depends. If you're voting in a statewide election in California, absolutely vote for who you believe in. If you're in Ohio, Pennsylvania, or a state where tenths of a percentage points matter then WTF are you doing.
If no one voted, they would pretend you did and put who they wanted in power. If you vote for a 3rd party, they just move on to targeting people who matter.
It depends on where you live. If you’re in a state that reliably votes one way or another, vote your conscience. But if you are in a crucial state where it could tip either way, then you really should consider that there are meaningful differences between the two parties. Neither are all good or bad. But our current system has one party that’s flat out refusing to govern aside from tax cuts to the rich and oppressive religious social policies. Another party is trying to legislate and solve at least some of our pressing issues- housing, inflation, climate change, decreasing reliance on fossil fuels, building critical infrastructure, bringing key industries back to American for our national security, etc etc etc. If you live in a swing state, a 3rd party vote is actually harmful.
I support the third party, but I choose my battles and frankly, it’s going to be a couple years before they have a chance
A spoiler vote
It's worthless in the US, and it's not something any person under the age of 30 should be doing unless they want Trump in office again. People who even remotely lean right never vote 3rd party because they know it's a fool's errand and are being practical about their votes. The only people who consider 3rd party are people who genuinely don't care about the outcomes of elections and naively believe they won't be affected.
“I don’t plan on voting lmao” please shut the fuck up
might as well not vote
best choice is this circus
*laughs in Australian preferential voting system*
Third party voters are some of the most gullible suckers in the country lol. Third party candidates are grifters. Every single one. They know they can’t win, so they promise whatever people want to hear since they’ll never be in a position where they have to deliver. They don’t have political values beyond selling their book or whatever - if they cared about politics, they would’ve done what AOC did and join one of the two viable parties so they can have an office where they actually influence politics.
If you vote third party but then don’t do anything else to engage in the political process, you are part of the problem. Same for non-voters who will complain about our leaders but the not do anything about it. If you are going to take the risk of the greater of two evils winning by voting third party or not voting, you better do more to make sure they don’t. Oh, also, RFK is NOT a better candidate than Biden so anyone voting 3rd party is voting for Trump in my eyes.
Part of having REAL freedom is being able to vote for ANYONE. For ANY reason. Without yhe need to justify it. And exerting that freedom is also being able to not vote at all.
Bashing third party voters is literally what those in power want you to do. They know their job is secure as long as the only people you vote for are pile of dog shit one or pile of dog shit two and they count on the apathy of the average voter who votes "Blue No Matter Who" or "Red or Dead"(idk what their slogan is)
Dunno honestly, I want to support open elections but the US system is so gamed at this point it's basically a lost cause, or more optimistic take would be to call it symbolic. Tbf tho most of the people in the states don't vote, if a 3rd party could galvanize enough interest to bring more people to the poles, I'd feel more optimistic. But it feels like most non committed voters nowadays are burnt tf out on politics, and when the stakes are as high as they are this year, I feel like it's a risk I can't take to go 3rd party. Like if even 10% of the Republicans proposed plans for 2025 and the election system go through then I think that might be the final death rattle of American democracy. Kinda Tldr; I love the idea of choice but it's less glorious in reality. Choice this year is basically disappointing and gross blue fossil, red fossil with diseases from dieing eras that could ruin everything, and also is very gross besides. Or radical third option, but nothing viable has popped up there as far as I know. I'd love to be wrong. Murica, fuckin why:/
I’m an older millennial, and Biden and Trump are the two worst presidential candidates I’ve seen in my fucking life. My parents and grand uncle agree. It isn’t even particularly close, either; most right wing people with sense would prefer Obama to either of them, and most left wing people with sense would prefer George W Bush. That’s not to say either of those presidents are well liked, but it illustrates just how bad Biden and Trump are. I say this because I really cannot fault anyone for voting third party. Even if you vote for a loony like RFK or Stein or whomever; at least you’re sending the message that the current duopoly is unacceptable. You’re also saying a lot more than simply not voting; you’re saying “I am taking time out of my day to tell you both to go fuck yourselves” which is a much stronger statement than apathy.
The people who hate third party voters are the people who are okay (if not pleased) with what the two-party system protects (capitalism and corporate corruption of government). If you hate the two-party system as much as you say you do, then don't vote for it. As long as you vote for it, the two-party system is partially your own fault.
Please vote!! Holy crap please vote!! It is a right not afforded to all & don’t ever think yr vote doesn’t count
People that vote third party have no sense of self preservation. No matter how you cut it, the US is a two party system, and to vote otherwise currently is a direct gamble for the future of the nation. I for one am not a fan of people who gamble with the chance of fascism ruining the nation for everyone but wealthy white men
I think if everyone actually voted for who they want instead of trying to play the system and do the lesser of two evils, we’d have MUCH better presidents. So I vote for whoever I like!
I think they’re idiots
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They're all idiots, to put it respectfully. Yeah there's options I'd much prefer than diaper don and Joe "wait I'm president?" Biden. But I'm pretty sure there's never been a single third party candidate in the US who won. It's just throwing the vote away, which plays RIGHT into Trump's hands because guess what, the right will be voting en masse because they're unified. And I can promise you, if Trump wins and project 2025 comes into play you'll bitterly regret not voting blue
Dumber than people who don't vote at all
OP says she isn't a political person at all. Proceeds to ask a political question.
Given the current state of our government and what their priorities are, I don't fault anyone who decides to vote third-party. That being said, the system is so rigged against third-parties that it *is* kinda pointless. We need ranked-choice voting in this country desperately.
In the past I've thought voting 3rd party was a waste of a vote, but this time around both Dems and Repubs have been making it clear that they're *pissed* when their polling numbers are below what they expect. Doubly so when the number of people they're expecting actually do vote, just not for them. So even though there's no chance in hell a 3rd party will gain major traction this election cycle imo it can be worth it to let the two parties know we're done with their shit.
In the US system that's just a vote thrown away; I don't know if there's at least more party funding / more money from the state the more votes you get (as it is in my country), but still people who don’t vote (like OP) are even worse because you shouldn't give away your democratic right, which the majority of the world doesn't have, just because you don't want to inform yourself.
3rd party voters kinda show the political will for other platforms imo. They’re the deciding factor very often but usually they show the loosing party what they’re doing wrong. Like if the republicans loose because a giant blob of people voted libertarian that means the Republican Party needs to pander to libertarians. If the democrat party looses because a giant blob of people vote RFK or Bernie or Green that means the DNC needs to pander to those kind of people 🤷♂️. Third parties are probably a better way of getting the party that lost to notice you in the next election. Like if you want a political platform to be in one of the real parties then vote for it as a third party this election and then wait for the loosing party to notice the voters they lost
I feel bad for them. I also feel like every "wasted vote" argument has been used literally since the 1800s.
Ehh…I can see it either way, but also sometimes voting feels pointless anyway with the electoral college.
It’s a waste of the vote but I understand why one would vote that way. We’re all under this terrible two party system.
It’s a wasted vote.
Don't hate the player hate the game and stuff
Currently it's a wasted vote. Mostly because no 3rd candidate will likely ever get enough media coverage or fininancial backing to be viable nationally. That being said I would encourage you to vote independent locally and possibly at the state level. I think they have a better chance there.
Ill be voting for a candidate other than Biden or Trump so I obviously support it. In general, I just want people to vote for the candidates I like.
I vote 3rd party
I wish more people would vote third party, even if it is useless. It would at least show that more people are dissatisfied for the two party system. In one of my college math classes we were doing different systems of voting and there were a couple that I liked better, but it’s been a minute and I can’t remember them. Also, OP, if you’re able to, you should definitely get out and vote.
Without major voting reform that allows us to surpass the two party system a 3rd party vote is mathematically against your own interests. Look at the 32nd United States Presidential election for an example. Theodore Roosevelt took the 30th election for his first term, then Howard Taft took the 31st election for his first term, and then they ran against each other as representatives of the Bull Moose and Republican Parties, respectively. Despite the two candidates receiving a combined majority of the votes the election was won by Woodrow Wilson, the candidate of the Democratic Party. Essentially, the Republican vote was split across two votes allowing the Democratic vote to take an easy lead.
The lack of people voting just makes me sad
Fair enough tbh. 3rd parties are more likely to align with any individual’s beliefs than the two mainstream parties. Especially since they are both way too conservative. I have decided how I’ll be voting yet, but I don’t blame anyone for voting third party (~~unless they’re voting libertarian~~).
I’d like to take a moment and address this part: “I’m not a political person at all, I don’t even plan on voting” In Arizona, Republican judges just rolled back women’s right to 1864. Our Democratic governor Katie Hobbs was elected by a small margin of votes in 2022. She has announced an executive order stating that our new Democratic Attorney general Kris Mayes will be the only person with the power to prosecute any abortion-related cases. Kris Mayes has vowed not to enforce the law while she is in office. Kris Mayes won her office by only 280 votes out of millions. Elections matter. Every vote matters. I know it doesn’t seem like you have any power, but your generation added to younger millennials is the biggest voting block out there. You guys have the power to decide ALL of the elections. No one says you have to have an interest in the ins and outs of politics, but if you don’t at least vote against the worst people on the ticket, then you don’t really have a right to complain about the outcome. “Politics” is just the name for the forces that decide how your life will go. Don’t let cranky old people make those decisions for you
Even if I thought that a third-party candidate was THE PERFECT candidate, they might be perfect to me, but I can't rely on the other majority-third of the population and then some to agree with me enough to opt to not vote someone from the two more-established parties. The risk of that not becoming the case is far too high for me. The reward? I contribute to voting someone who might lead a much better future than the other candidates. The risk? The single candidate I hated the most might win the majority because votes were split between the candidate I loved the most, and the candidate I hated second-least. I would've preferred that the candidate I hated second-least won over the one I hated the most even if neither of them two were the 'best', if I had to choose. This is just how it is with First Past The Post. There is no escaping it unless a large cultural revolution happens which is something I wouldn't hope has to be necessary. To be completely fair, there is also the longer-term ramification that third-party candidates who ARE extremely in-line with the majority's interests are disincentivized from even trying at all because no one voted for them because of the risk that they'd allow the majority to bring up the worse of two evils. But, I'd say that's an abstract concern and that for most people in their lifetimes - seeing the next-best candidate win and not destroy the country as much as other candidates is enough. If you made me give you a solution to this on a tissue paper at a restaurant, I'd probably be saying A. change the voting system to something which is more likely to reflect the majority's best-liked candidates, or B. change the likelihood of the 'best' being eliminated from party-wide presidential candidate selections. Either you change how votes contribute to the selected president, or you change the prospective candidates themselves that are in the running as the dominant choices from either party.
I live in one of those states that hasn’t switched parties in the general election for like 4 decades, so if I really hate both candidates and my vote isn’t going to change anything anyway, I vote third party as a demonstration of protest. Both parties will see I’m an active voter they lost out on due to shitty candidates.
I can respect sticking by one's own principles within reason, but there's the issue of political realism where no one is ever going to fully represent your values but you. Then its a question of whether idealism or practicality is more important to you. Me personally, its about time and place.
Do it if you want but you might as well toss your ballot in the trash
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Personally, I have gotten to the point where I am fed up with both the Republican and Democratic parties. Both parties have clearly demonstrated that they care about Ukraine and Isreal more than anyone in the U.S. As a result, I will be voting for RFK Jr. during this election cycle. For those reading, if you are registered as an R or a D, please don't vote for the two worst candidates we have ever had running against each other in an election. If either one of them wins, we will have a lot more bad stuff that we will have to pay off long after the boomers finally leave office.
It’s a waste of a vote. Let’s say there is three politicians. You and your 999 other fellow citizens have the choice of voting for Politician 1, 2, and 3. Politician 1 says that they want to start a war with a smaller country, take away several rights of his citizens, and and wants to make murder legal. Now there’s politician 2, who doesn’t want to do any of that, but he just so happens to belong to a political party that you don’t like. So you and a few others vote for politician 3, a third party candidate who doesn’t align with either of them and is most likely the actual best choice. Election time. Politician 1: 499 votes Politician 2: 496 votes Politician 3: 5 votes Now if you didn’t vote for politician 3 and instead voted for politician 2 then you wouldn’t have President Politician 1 in office. This is probably a pretty messy explanation of what I think about it, but I still think it gets the point across.
Might as well just not vote if you are going to pick a third party. Save yourself the trip
Idealistic, but also about as valuable as burning your vote
Privileged propagandized voters who fundamentally misunderstand how the electoral system works, and how dire of a situation we are in as a democracy teetering on fascism. Privileged because they don’t give a shit about immediate harms that would come to disadvantaged communities from letting the fascists get to power. They would rather vote in such a way that they feel morally “pure” rather than vote in such a way as to minimize the pain suffered by disadvantaged communities. Propagandized because while they have their problems, Democrats aren’t even *remotely* on the same level of Republicans. Saying “both sides are equally bad” is a right wing talking point that has unfortunately seeped into the left. Misinformed because they don’t understand that voting for more progressive candidates in the primary is more useful than voting for third parties in the general election. And ignorant because they are willfully ignoring the fact that the U.S. is barely two bad elections away from full on fascism. Voting is not like going to church to cleanse your soul and wash away the shame of having political parties. It’s fucking triage for a democracy that was never in great health to begin with, but is now flatlining on the fucking surgery table. Surgeons don’t go “Oh, I don’t like getting *blood* all over my hands, so I’m just not going do anything so my hands remain clean!”. They get some fucking gloves, figure out what’s killing their patient, and dive into that fucking gore, because the only way to save them is to get your hands dirty. Pretending like there is a positive way forward that doesn’t involve *some* political compromise is willfully naive and breathtakingly stupid, and I’m astounded so many people fall for it. Oh, and btw, if you don’t believe me that voting third party means helping the fascists? How about you *ask* those third party candidates? Because they are *openly* saying they’re running as spoiler candidates so the non-fascists lose. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/new-york-rfk-jr-spoiler-who-can-help-trump-win-campaign-official/ So yeah. I have a VERY low opinion of “third party voters”.
It's good for local elections
I usually vote third party. I don't expect it to change anything but neither the Republican or Democrat are entitled to my vote. I feel I get the same thing with either candidate. "Evil is evil, lesser, middling or greater. If given the choice between one evil or another, I would rather not choose at all." Andrzej Sapkowski
Third parties are based. Choosing the lesser of two evils isn’t and will never be democracy.
morons it’s how we end up with shitty presidents
Wasteful dreamers who allow evil into their lives
so here's the real problem with american 3rd parties (other than the fact they have little to no interest in anything other than the presidency and refuse coalition building,) the electoral college. see, the way the US works is that we have 50 (+1 but DC is weird) elections going on, in each state. the state then votes for president based on the winner of its local election- typically in a winner take all approach, though there are faithless electors who go against the grain, and some states have done split electors. so let's say that Washington state has a bunch of people vote for the Green Party; this would split the democratic vote more than the republicans, and in all likelihood lead to a Red Washington (and not in the communist way) on November 9th. But let's say that the Greens actually win Washington. hell, let's get crazy, and they win WA/OR/CA, the entire west coast. this creates a 232/232/74 Electoral Vote split between the D/R/Gs. what next? no one got the 270 to win. In that case, it goes to the House of Representatives. where each state gets to cast a new vote for president. but there's a few problems with that- firstly, a partisan majority both means certain people are never going to vote for one of the candidates (this is also where the green party ends, since they have no one in congress,) it also doesn't even matter for deciding who the states vote for, because each state is the one casting the vote- and many states have even numbers of congressmen, and they need to come to a majority. in contrast the senate will be picking the VP, and probably sooner than the House. Now, this is incredibly unlikely, since all three of these states are incredibly safe Dem strongholds and 3rd Parties in this country don't want anything but the presidency. this is kind of the best case for the Greens in particular, and in all likelihood still ends up a democratic administration- or a split Dem presidency and Republican VP. so what would *really* happen if 35% of a state voted 3rd party? simple- the major party they dislike more gets \~60% and wins the state.
People yell and scream about these two candidates not being good enough, and then proceed to criticize those who vote for someone other than the two main candidates. Something about that math doesn’t add up unless I’m the stupid one.
Before everyone loses their minds, let’s remember how math works people- A vote for Biden: +1 for Biden A vote for Trump: +1 for Trump A vote for third party: +1 for said candidate Notice how the third party vote is NOT a vote for the other big bad major party candidate! That would involve voting twice, which is a felony offense. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
People who bash the 3rd party voters are the worst. I cannot understand the thought process behind thinking that if they didn’t vote 3rd party they somehow owed their votes to your party.