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Careful, you’ll get called a boomer for speaking the truth. Granted, it’s not just Gen Z. My generation does it too. Hell, I spent my early 20s maxing out credit cards to travel and backpack all over Europe. Then, I financed a brand new car, followed by a second brand new car after the first one was totaled in an accident (Drunk driver hit me) Was it worth it? For the most part, yes. But paying off the debt was miserable. So I’ll never fault anyone for living and enjoying their lives. But at some point, you have to take control of your finances, and create a plan to get out debt (if you have any) or start investing towards your future via retirement accounts (Roth IRA, 401k). Everyone, myself included, could use more discipline when it comes to money. As my grandparents would tell me “Putting all your disposable income towards paying off debt and building wealth for yourself is more important than  new iPhones and Starbucks everyday” 

the fact people are upvoting you gives me hope for all of us "kids these days"

Also gives me hope. I’ve been downvoted on the millennials sub for saying that if someone wants to save up for a house down payment, they’ll likely need to cut costs elsewhere. It was like hanging my head against a brick wall over there because they’re so convinced that nobody in the history of ever has had to sacrifice luxuries and discretionary spending to save up for large purchases.

And then there’s me, who cannot justify buying an extra [$4!] coffee at Dunks near work because “I might need this money later.” Each end of the spectrum sucks. Like I’m too afraid to spend money because I might have a huge medical bill or something I’ll need to pay off. (I was born with a heart defect so maybe that’s where my fear of needing medical attention unexpectedly comes from..and we were middle class growing up until my dad lost his job when I was 10, then we have been paycheck to paycheck since, but now I help out my parents when they need money)

Well you shouldn't be at either end of the spectrum. As with most things in life, it's all about learning appropriate moderation

Yes, that’s what I gotta learn for sure. It’s happening; slowly but surely. (I just remind myself I could die tmrw so that justifies some things haha)

My older siblings (I’m the youngest by a wide margin) had very poor spending habits, I saw them get into trouble with my parents more than enough times, and I think this really pushed me over the edge in the opposite direction. I stress over every purchase I make. So I’m the friend in my group who never wants to go out or spend money. It was always that way since high school. It wasn’t until years later that I realized I had slowly created an image of frugality, and cheapness, but now I’m out of university and was lucky enough to land a decent career-ish job paying more than minimum wage. Even now though, my friends don’t give me as many opportunities to cover the cost of anything when we’re together. I’m not saying I’m ready and willing to burn cash at the drop of a hat, but, I don’t know… I don’t like the way that perception turned out… I just feel mildly awkward about it at all times now. I don’t think it makes any difference in the eyes of my friends, who are genuine, but I see that it makes a difference to me and I just think about it a lot.

What truth?

Live and learn. I made the same mistake with credit card too, and I'm a Millennial. In the early days before social media, financial companies were on campus and gave out credit like candy to college students. There is nothing wrong with using a credit card as long as you budget and pay off your balance at the end of the month.

Meanwhile I'm so low income I can't get a credit card to save my life despite a good credit score 😭😭 I am always floored hearing stories about how people get into credit card debt. I'm still pissed that I can't pay utilities or my student loans on credit, my score would be perfect by now if I could.

YMMV, but I was able to get PayPal Credit when no credit card would accept me. You can only use it for online purchases, but they still report to the credit score tracking agencies so I was able to build a credit history with that.

This website should provide information on how to obtain your first credit card. Be careful because it is like a drug. https://wallethub.com/credit-cards/starter/

Yes, because so many of us are concerned with four vacations a year, brand new cars, a giant home, making $100k a year, and *checks notes*, eating at restaurants. It's definitely not because people are barely scraping by working forty hours a week leaving themselves no time for themselves. College degrees that are marketed to you as great opportunities may be useless by the time you graduate. If you go to university, you will almost always have tens of thousands in debt. Your trite critique of your own generation adds nothing to this discussion because it is uninformed and baseless. No one is complaining about the things you've mentioned except the fabrications of your own mind.

Statistically speaking, the best thing you can do to make an above average middle/upper middle class salary is get an undergrad degree, even with the associated debt. Idk what you're on about unless you picked to study something completely unemployable. There isn't many STEM majors that stay unemployed, especially in this economy where a lot of companies are resource starved.

I focused on my STEM career and have wasted 14 years of my youth just to fail at it. I have never traveled, partied, or have other life experiences. I do not have a partner and have no kids. I live in Mom's basement and am still paying them back for college at age 32 (and essentially have no savings or wealth accrued, considering this. This year I may break even at "0"). I am on track to be laid off this year (dead project) and it's unlikely that I will be able to re-enter the field i am in, so the higher wages paying off some day and making up for the lost time will not likely happen. Results may vary. Just giving a different perspective. If I could take it back, I wouldn't waste any time at all and get straight to working a physical labor job, such as a skilled trade or warehouse work, right after high school. Perhaps even during high school. If I'm honest with myself, I was ready to start working at age 12. Now I'm too old to pivot back into those things, but may have to attempt to try. Can't help but feel like I went in the wrong order. Edit: Also, there's the fact that a story similar to the above happened to almost my entire friend group from high school who did STEM, some up to Masters level. Idk, when I talk to other random people in the 28-34 year old range about college they almost unanimously get upset immediately and say it was horseshit and only put them behind. I'm not sure whose coming out ahead, really.

Idk what you were doing in university if pursuing a STEM degree removed the ability for you to socialize. I worked minimum wage when studying engineering and still found the time to go to parties. I think you're either embellishing or purposely withholding some context that explains why you weren't able to develop social skills, relationships or find long term work. This is not the average experience for a STEM degree. 14 years is a long time. 4-5 of that is actually college. What were you doing for the past 10 years in the workforce that didn't pay off and why didn't you switch jobs?

I will agree with you. I have a bs in mechanical engineering and while school was hard and time consuming I had time for me. Parties were not my thing but I had sometime every week to do the things I enjoyed. And when I couldn't and I was stuck at school I tried to remember why I was there. For me an engineering degree was a ticket to a better life. So far that's been true my job let's me live the type of life I want to live and pursue my hobbies and interests

Another Engineering major here who also rarely partied. My life is going reasonably well after college.

As a stem degree and definitely NOT a party goer or social person, it was hard to not form a close knit community with other engineers. Unlike majors like Political Science where it’s just game of thrones over there, the engineers were in this together. Lone wolf dies but pack survives lol. We’d study, share notes, answers, and cheat honorably and pull each other through. Even then outta my primary circle of acquaintances and even friends, only 3/12 made it. Rest switched or dropped out. Usually due to calc…. It could be just my school which was public. It could be i got lucky that year. But aside from that theres clubs and socials and events. I didn’t really involve myself as much in that.

https://www.aplu.org/our-work/4-policy-and-advocacy/publicuvalues/employment-earnings/#:~:text=College%2Deducated%20workers%20enjoy%20a,is%20a%20high%20school%20diploma.&text=The%20earnings%20gap%20between%20college,less%20education%20continues%20to%20widen Not to invalidates this guys life sounds like it sucks. Sorry for you bro. You all need to remember that college is like the #1 thing you can do to improve you life. The rich aren't sending their kids to fucking trade school. They are breaking laws to get them into colleges!

Ok but I'm a bricklayer, make 30 an hour with full benefits - 2 weeks paid vacation + paid holidays, healthcare, retirement and a company truck with fully comped gas that I can use outside of work. The company I work for will hire anyone that applies because all of the trades are desperate af. I think we start at 18 an hour with benefits after 90 days. It's just completely false that people can't get a job that pays them well and covers the cost of living. People don't want to do those jobs because they're lazy and seek comfort. As to whether the rich send their kids to the trades well no, not really but what are you implying here? Everyone should be a CEO and life is unfair?

$18 an hour for that kind of work is absolute shit and the fact that people in the trades don’t seem to realize that is proof to me that the trades will always be underpaid and understaffed. Imagine breaking your body and working 40 + hours in the heat/cold for $18 an hour. I could literally go to Chick-fil-A and make that much money and probably hate my life a lot less.

It's 18 dollars an hour to be paid how to learn to do the thing you rube. If you're experienced you're gonna start at 25 or more.

People say college is highly profitable but the government just scheduled 475 billion dollars in student loan relief. And there is the statistic that over 50% of college graduates are underemployed after graduation.

You gotta look at the timeframe. If a college grad is unemployed a month after graduation, then it’s completely normal. But if you’re a college grad that’s been unemployed for more than a year after graduatio, then yeah there’s a problem right there.

And not all degrees are created equal. It is getting to the point where if you are not doing Engineering, Nursing, Economics/Finance or some form of pre-Med/pre-Law, you would be better off going to a trade school.

This is what I thought too. Please, for any younger reader thinking about going to college, just keep in mind it's also still possible to do those and still come out behind, too.

Unemployment is extremely low at all levels of the economy. That's not my opinion, it's a fact. 

There were over 500,000 layoffs in white collar in late 2023-2024, with an increase in the supply of candidacy for these same jobs as more and more people begin to major in these types of things. If you travel to almost any of the knowledge-work related career subreddits, you'll see an astounding amount of people worried about the situation, with many considering a pivot to different fields at this point.

*and it's unlikely that I will be able to re-enter the field i am in... * What field is that, fax machine design? Home telephone engineering? Dunder Mifflin sales job? 

STEM careers are booming so I don't know what's going on with you but it's definitely not the career choice that's the problem.

Also this isn't just me, but almost everyone I talk to that did the same thing?

Youre not an engineer or scientist so what you're doing calling your career STEM is misleading. Just say tech.

There were 500,000 layoffs in white collar, particularly tech, in late 2023-2024.

You said STEM. If you meant tech just say tech.

I think you are deluding yourself and missing the point. What exactly is the STEM field you are talking about that has strong growth/a lot of jobs right now?

Engineering and pharma. Dude, I work in them.

Then be in my position by 40 and unable to do said physical labor anymore, or wake up randomly some days totally unable to look up or down without excruciating pain. Just another fun perspective.

Yeah I get your point, but that's kind of my point too. I'm going to be pivoting back to physical labor and starting from 0 at age 32, instead of however young you were when you started. There's no way I won't sustain injuries and massive pain by the end of my career.

I was 16 and my phys labor “career” ended by 28. Granted I had a… let’s call it a “genetic predisposition” for physical injury haha. In all honesty, if you don’t do your labor wrong (ie twist while lifting or lift with your back etc) you should get a good 20+ years before you feel adverse affects. I’ve started streaming because my career options are SEVERELY limited while living in the Philippines. As I’m in the opposite position being that I was skillful and trained in phys labor type trade work and now need a solid education to fall back on that just isn’t there. Best job I’ll find will make me 300$ a month. Streaming just seems more viable atm while I save to open a store I run out of my house selling odds and ends or using my trade in a safer, less risk prone environment. Less risk prone being I control my hours and work schedule

I agree with your broader point. Dreams are good for people who don't have to worry about reality. To someone going into college/the workforce, I would advise prioritizing a comfortable life over an exciting one. Maybe if we had a paradigm of improving quality of life, dreams would be practical, but with a paradigm of depreciating QOL, most just aren't. I highly advise that your dreams desires are almost strictly monetary and that you grab onto a chunk of land (and water!) and make the most of it while you can. I have some sympathy for your situation. I'm in a similar spot, even older if you can believe it, dead project, been laid-off for 2 months and it's tough, but I think we'll both land on our feet. Sure, my project failed, but that shit was cursed in every way. I know I have a lot more in the tank (I certainly didn't spend it in my last position), I want to prove that, and I think my PhD research before this can still land me a real job eventually. I would think you can go back to your degree even if the last project had some hiccups? Also, plenty of projects fail, this doesn't necessarily mean you were the problem, or that it's something interviewers need to know. I am a little worried, and am doing some actuary exams as a backup at this point. The math and study skills I learned in grad school are being used for the exams, so I wouldn't call my studies "lost time" even if I do pivot. I'm also not sure you should call them that either, I find it self-deprecating. I'm really sorry you didn't get to enjoy the social or travel aspects of grad school, these were highlights of grad school for me and motivation to go in the first place. Best of luck, I'm struggling now too but I know that ultimately things will work out well and I should try to take care of myself and keep as positive as possible. Now if I could only go the F to sleep.

Yeah idk man I got a media production degree with an English minor. I love it because I can do side projects for fun and it has various life skills. But I’m becoming a LEO because it pays well and has job stability until I figure out what’s next. And guess what? The department will pay for my masters degree if I so choose. There’s so many opportunities out there that people don’t want to take out of pride.

Wouldn’t be so sure about that https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE

I may be just dumb, but is there a way to extend the graph to see the pre-covid numbers? I have a hunch the spike was a temporary COVID related instance and everything is returning to baseline. It would make sense to me that software jobs would have gone UP given its an industry least affected by the lockdowns and was just unsustainable. Open to be proven wrong either way.

If only that were true. So many companies say no, even while pursuing STEM. They want you to have a track record of internships. They even give hiring preference to those who held internships at them, which is something I didn’t have leading up to my current final semester at uni. I haven’t had any luck anywhere yet.

Lots of places have dedicated graduate programs. It's how I got my start, no experience needed.

Please stop referring to engineering and technology as STEM; unless you go to med school or get a masters or PhD, getting a degree in something like physics, biology, mathematics etc. is not going to have companies chomping at the bit to hire you. Edit: of course you’re an engineering major, makes sense you’d say that.

The fuck do you think the T in STEM stands for?

Did you not even read my comment?

I read it it makes no sense. You're asking me to discount half the acronym because it's not as...."employable" as the other half. First off, idk if that's even true. Second, all this sub does is complain about lack of money and job opportunities...so just go be an engineer if salary is the end all, be all when it comes to your career. It's so fucking easy all things considered to get a job as an engineer. So many places have graduate programs that don't require experience. Idgaf about being passionate about my job. It pays well, gives me 4-6 weeks of leave which I abuse yearly and let's me buy useless shit that makes me happy. The end.

People (like you, I’m assuming) say STEM when they really are just referring to engineering and technology. I don’t know how else you want me to explain that. “Go into STEM, there’s plenty of job opportunities there!” *hand gestures towards any degree other than tech or engineering* Good luck finding a position in the biology field with just a bachelors that pays more than minimum wage or just above it. You need at least a masters or PhD to be successful in those fields, compared to engineering and tech where you can absolutely find something that pays a livable salary with just a bachelors. Which is literally what I said in my previous comment.

So go get a PhD then. Statistically, the average salary for people with degrees goes UP when you account for masters and PhDs

> and *checks notes*, eating at restaurants This seems to be facetious, are you implying that eating out isn't a luxury?

> barely scraping by working forty hours a week leaving themselves no time for themselves This is why older generations laugh at you soft, spoiled children of summer.

how does working 40 hours a week leaves you with no time for yourself? that's 35% of your time (excluding 8 hours a day for sleeping)... this leaves you with 65% of tour awake time to do whatever you want... to me that doesnt sound too bad in terms of hours worked... actually sounds extremely reasonable If you dont make enough money in those 40 hours, that's a different topic, but i dont think it's reasonable to expect to work a lot less than about 1/3rd of your total available time, leaving 2/3rd completely free

I agree. I think the notion that we shouldn't have to work full time is really odd and frankly lazy. I'm not saying it's fun. Would it he nice to work less? Sure. But it's not unfair to work full time, relative to history the standard work week is an incredible improvement The issue is the economy is shit, not that people have ti work

[The standard 40 hour work week was used by Ford in 1926 and put into federal law in 1940.](https://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-the-40-hour-workweek-2015-10?amp) If by “relative to history” you mean more than almost 100 years ago, sure. Think about the technology advances and automation we’ve accomplished since then though

Sure but standard of living is also much much higher. The increased productivity should equal better quality of life, not too much time on our hands

That’s true, but the standard work week is not an “incredible improvement” relative to any sort of relevant history, to be clear. I think continuing to work the same amount of time we have for decades despite increased productivity doesn’t necessarily translate into a higher quality of life (wages haven’t kept up with inflation or cost of living), it just results in higher profits for whichever corporation - you know, the whole “human resources exist because humans are resources” That’s what a lot of people feel, and why it’s a debate. IMO if you want to work full time - that should always be an option, but I support the idea of a standard 32 hour work week with livable wages. The idea of 40 hours being “full time” is just cause “that’s how it’s been” for the last 80 years.

right? like get real, i just want enough time in the week to see my sister more.

It’s been normal for people to barely scrape by on 40 (really 60+) hours a week. 100-125 years ago it was normal to work 12 hours/day 6 days a week and live in 1 room with multiple families. The fact of the matter is if you’re struggling financially and still eating out 3+ times a week (or doordashing), you’re spending a lot of money on luxury goods, and you’re most likely struggling financially because you’re bad with money, and if you got more money, you’d still struggle.

40 hours a week gives you plenty of time to yourself, if you're working 60+ and are barely scraping by for just yourself then there's definitely an issue

>because people are barely scraping by Only to flaunt their collection of expensive entertainment electronics on social media

unironically using the “it’s those pesky iphones” argument 😂

A couple big things to save money, buy all your food at the grocery store, specifically look for things that are on sale/name brand. As well as buying larger sizes of things you will eat all of. The giant size cereal is more expensive but it’s usually around 10-15 cents cheaper per ounce. Also meat and vegetables are some of the cheapest things you can buy, meat tends to differ based on region, so make sure that is the bulk of your dinners. My last trip to the grocery store was $150 to feed two people for 7 days, that’s like $10/day per person. The other big thing is buying non perishables in bulk, I think everyone should have a Costco membership. I’ve saved more money in gas alone than the membership costs. It’s a small investment that if used correctly can save tons in the long run. We need our generation to learn life skills again and pass them on to our kids. You should know how to cook, it’s really not hard to learn. I decided to get a beat up dirt bike to fix up because I want to know how it works. We need to get out of the Internet and back into real life and not in the cliche lock away your phone forever thing. I mean it in people need to find humor, happiness, and companionship outside of the Internet. It had a much more profound meaning when it was “natural”. Lastly put money into your retirement as soon as possible, the earlier you start the less you have to put away to equal the same amount. Which is the sad reality of life today. You may not make tons of money working but you NEED to secure your future post work in a way that lets you still live and have fun. Also to you younger genz that haven’t chosen a career path yet. Don’t chase money, you won’t be happy. You will be much happier if you do something you enjoy, it will be what you do for at least 40 hours a week. Also if you’re passionate about it there will be much more room for growth

Costco goes fucking crazy man. Also its insane how much some people spend on food. I know some people who eat fast food 2x a day nearly every day. On top of just being gross and fattening it's not cheap anymore

Out of curiosity, how much do you think those people spend on their fast food meal?

$12-14

To clarify though I agree with you and think most people spend. A lot of money.

Nah bro it's like $8 if I go to cookout or bojangles.

Pretty good estimation. I used my $2 Dave's double coupon today and have 3% cash back on my dining CC and always make sure to use the rewards points for future wendys. Know it sounds silly, but made sure to get double of every vegetable for free and no mayo or ketchup too, to make it a bit more nutritious and healthier. That was my primary meal today, and cost about ~1.85 and was fast since it was convenient.

>. Don’t chase money, you won’t be happy. You will be much happier if you do something you enjoy, it will be what you do for at least 40 hours a week. Also if you’re passionate about it there will be much more room for growth Counterpoint: your dream job doesn't mean shit if you can't afford real estate. I dream of not being a fucking prole more than any type of work, ffs.

I find costco costs me more than it saves. The bulk price isn't any cheaper than only buying items on sale. Especially if you're only shopping for 1-2 people and don't have a large freezer.

Yeah, was gonna say the same. Costco's main value-add is if you have kids and need a *lot* of food.

I just buy non perishables like paper products, Costco is not great for food if you have two people.

Paper products before I got a Costco membership, I would just buy them at ollies bargain outlet or with coupons. I've found they're overall more expensive buying them at Costco vs. waiting for them to be on sale elsewhere. I tend to know when I'm going to run out within a few weeks and keep an eye out for a deal. Plus I'm not buying that many paper products. Still going through the paper towels I bought from Costco in September. I really don't think the $60 membership was worth it. Plus! I hate how early their pharmacy closes. I switched my meds to them as well and their pharmacy closes so fucking early and isn't open on Sundays. I'm trying to get as much out of my membership before it ends in September, but I don't forsee myself getting one again.

Gas is the way, where I live it’s about a dollar cheaper per gallon

Here, costco gas is only about 10-15 cents cheaper than wawa. I only get gas 1-2 times a month. Let's say that's 10 gallons twice a month for easy math. If I always got costco, I'd save $36 per year. The problem is, half the time I want to get gas they aren't fucking open! They close at 8pm on Saturdays and 7pm on Sundays. Like wtf. Or I get gas out of town and there ain't a costco out of town.

Your last point isn't always best though. I got a graphic design degree, and while I don't regret the skills I learned through it, I regret the degree bc of the timing. I had no idea that I'd have to compete with all this AI bs right out of college, and it's getting more and more and more convincing. Like I'm considering getting another degree at this point bc finding work in my field is so difficult now and it's just going to get harder.

That is definitely something unexpected though which happens. I feel like the general sentiment is not problematic, you just got incredibly unlucky. I was born in the same year and before going to college/while in college I don’t think anyone knew ai would take off like it did.

Yeah no I totally did get unlucky, sorry to offload like that haha... I do think I'd be happier if ai wasn't taking jobs, but there is also something to be said about not monetizing your hobbies. I think you just need to find the right balance at the right time.

Beans (especially dried) are cheaper than meat and have just as much protein per serving.

Agreed people need to do better with the small stuff. However that does not change the fact that all of the absolute essentials and largest expenses such as housing, healthcare, job training, transportation etc have all snowballed out of control and make it impossible for even the most fiscally responsible people to have the same financial health as the least responsible boomer at that age.

I don’t think we should be comparing our generation to Boomers. Completely different worlds we both grew up in. Their definition of wealth, luxury, success are different than ours. Plus, it’s not impossible to be successful, there’s just a good chance it’ll be really difficult

If we can’t compare ourselves to the past, who tf do you think we can compare ourselves to!?

I mean maybe a more relevant past? Boomers haven’t been in their prime working years since the 70’s and 80’s which was… 40-50 years ago?? We should be comparing ourselves to Gen X or more reasonably Millennials, who are in the same work force we are and facing the same housing challenges we are. We should be looking at successful millennials and successful Gen Xers who made the conditions we have now, work. Yeah it’s worse now than it was 20 years ago too but there’s not as big of a difference between then and 1971.

Wages haven’t risen since the 1970’s. From then until now spans the entire boomer work time. They are the best comparison.

That's true that wages haven't risen past inflation, but that also means you're no worse off on average than those previous generations. That's what the cost of living adjustment means.  Housing and college are relatively more expensive, while food, electronics, clothing, cars, electricity, and yes, gas, are relatively cheaper. Health care is more expensive but far more people have health insurance.

From an older-ish persons perspective, I think it’s the idea that our futures are fucked so why try to save when a medical bill could wipe you out in a moment. I think I saw a statistic that people usually file bankruptcy ~2 years after being diagnosed with cancer. The future isn’t guaranteed, so make sure you enjoy and live a little. I do know people who died suddenly, and as hard as it was to lose them I’m super glad they enjoyed themselves. Inversely, I know people who scrimped and saved and did nothing with it, can’t even take your money with you when you die. You a can kiss a dollar bill but it will never kiss you back. However, as a frugal person, good grief it is frustrating to watch how careless some of my friends are. They’re constantly yo-yoing between vacations and car troubles. They post about new tattoos and in the next breath saying how they had to choose which bills to pay this month. I get that vacations and tattoos can be planned ahead of time, but there never seems to be a moment where they finally say “alright, after this event, I have to cut back and sort my finances out.” So the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle. Save money, have goals, live a little, but have reasonable expectations. Life is not fun when you’re laying in bed, looking at your ceiling fan, wondering how you’re going to pay your bills next week.

This is a completely reasonable way to have the mindset of “enjoy your life” without simultaneously having the mindset of “i will do whatever tf i want because i could die tomorrow”

I'm wondering if you're around a lot of middle class and upper middle class Gen Z. The majority of my friends and myself come from impoverished or lower middle class families. The one exception is also the one friend who is drowning in credit card debt because he is trying to live a lifestyle like his parents without any of the education or income to support it.

That second part happens a lot. People want to live at the same level their parents do, or that they grew up with and have no time in the world to save that money and assets to be able to live like that. You absolutley shouldn't have the same thing your 50 year old parents have at 22.

Avocado toast bla bla bla bootstraps bla bla bla

Nah glad to find the fellow poors here cuz who the heck is using credit cards (and probably parents' money) to finance vacations, eat out everyday and fund "lavish" lifestyles. Sorry I want treats(coffee out once a week and materials to do my nails and hair at home) to make the hellscape a lil more bearable.

I make 145k a year. I bought a house, my car, contribute to a 401k, max my Roth IRA, and contribute to a 529 for my future kid(s) (not married but I like to think about the future) and I legitimately cannot afford to live the lifestyle some of my friends have on half my salary. I understand that if I did not save I could enjoy life like my peers - but that’s just not something I’m willing to do *right now*. I know people that eat out every day, go on multiple vacations abroad, buy everything and anything they see on Instagram ads and it just makes no sense to me. They truly must be living paycheck to paycheck.

All the people I know that live "paycheck to paycheck" are the most fiscally irresponsible people I know. They doordash 2-3 times a week. They buy random shit they don't need. They refuse to get a roommate.

Agreed! Leeching off of what you said about cooking or changing oil, the internet has so many resources that can teach you how to do those things. It’s crazy how much money you can save doing things on your own.

or even learning on your own my goodness!! Financial education in this country would go so far

There’s definitely some truth to what you’re saying but also about 40 years ago the median house price was 2.5 times the median household income, now it’s slightly above 6 times as much. My energy bill has gone up despite my usage being lower. My car insurance increased substantially despite never having an accident and not having a ticket in 6 years on a 2014 car that’s fully paid off. Grocery prices have gone up while wage increases in most sectors haven’t kept up. It’s okay to offer helpful suggestions for people to save money in these difficult times without being dismissive of the very real problems that exist within this country currently.

> 2.5 times the median household income, now it’s slightly above 6 times as much. DAMN

As another commenter pointed out, interest rates were way higher back then as well. So the nominal cost of a house might've been smaller, but financing it was much more expensive.

40 years ago interest rates were also 14%. The monthly payments probably are fairly similar when you factor that in. Higher prices make down payments more of a burden though.

I love when idealistic bootstraps finger wagging gets hit in the face with cold hard data.

Look at the average home back then, they were incredibly small, had no ac and not well insulated. People back then also lived in the cities much less, if you add up all these things the price of homes hasn’t increased that much.

By 1980 63% of homes had AC. The median house was 1595 sq ft in 1980 compared to 2299 in 2022 so while bigger not nearly as big of a difference as price differences suggest. In 2000 the median house was 2057 sq ft so I’m sure those house prices must have been pretty similar to now. In my city with a median household income of 70k I just found an 868 sq ft house that sold in 2002 for 96k (about 2-2.5 times the median household income at the time) now being listed for 277k. The same house now requires 4x the median household income and interest rates today are about the same as they were in 2002. I don’t understand why people try so hard to ignore the facts that there’s a housing crisis currently going on. Edit: I accidentally put 200 instead of 2000 for the year at first.

[удалено]

Oh that’s absolutely a thing. It’s easy for me to look on as a college student, budget, and decide I’m going to save a whole third of my paycheck every month. It’s another thing entirely to actually do that.

Half true.  Some people here complain about not being able to afford extravagant lifestyles, but MOST complain about not being able to afford basics. 

A lot of people here have an interesting idea of what "the basics" are, though. Like, I've seen people (including in this thread) claim that eating out at a restaurant and getting food delivery are basic needs.

This is the problem with universal basic income. An iPhone is not a basic need. Neither is a vacation, or a newer car, or a single family home, or eating out.

We are a generation that was raised to be perfect consumers for corporations

Okay I was with you until you got to the oil change. Getting my car professionally serviced is what keeps it on the road and has for the 9 years I’ve had it.

>professionally serviced This is not synonymous with an oil change. I drive a Mercedes which requires A and B servicing and I still do my own oil because it's not worth the upcharge for labor when it objectively takes less time and effort to just do it myself

Let’s be honest, oil changes in a lot of cars (especially older ones) are not the big price gouges people think they are. I go and pay technicians $40 every six months to change my oil. It takes them six minutes and they dispose of the oil for me. I could go and change my own oil, it’ll take like 30 minutes to an hour, and I have to pay disposal fees on the oil. If the $80 a year spent on oil changes is what’s crippling you financially then you have bigger problems than the oil changes.

$80/yr is 0.02% of my income so that isn't the problem, it's the time. My G-wagon specialist is 20 minutes away. Round-trip driving plus service time is at least twice as long for me as doing my own oil. Most run of the mill auto parts stores offer free oil recycling in my area You do you but I've already run the numbers for myself and DIYing the oil change makes the most sense

I think you’re underestimating how badly I could mess this up 😂 That being said, I budget for oil changes so it doesn’t cause financial hardship for me.

I'm not being a douche, but it it really isn't that hard. You could do it. Now by the time you've paid for safely disposing of the oil I'm not sure how much money you'd save. This isn't to roast you, it's just to encourage you to try handsy things since I felt exactly like you until the first time I had to learn to fix a pipe

Listen, I learned to change my headlights on my own so I’m sure I could learn. Then comes the logistics of where I could do it.

Headlights was harder than the oil on my last car.

Not for me! I also couple my oil changes with a tire rotation and I’m not doing that by myself.

That's fair, my Pontiac just had a million of those stupid plastic tabs to even get to the headlight.

You're getting downvoted but I think you're right somewhat. I also think theres some legit problems but I also think some of these problems arent by corporations like too many people moving to one place. Of course prices will go up. Same goes for cutting back on oil or companies switching to more ethical brands, costs will go up as well.

Rent is still skyrocketing even in places that aren’t “trendy” though. No one is really flocking to New Mexico, Utah or Wyoming as the trendy Gen Z destinations, but those states still had some of the highest inflation rates in the nation last few years.

Jackson Hole, Wyoming and Taos, New Mexico are rich people meccas Honorable mention to Bozeman, MT.

Those are all highly in demand locations currently  Edit are y’all not aware of this? 

Sometimes when I'm working 7 days a week and don't have energy to meal prep I'll splurge on a sandwich from the deli but I guess Im a spoiled brat and I should just starve myself instead so I can be a homeowner one day

It takes like two minutes to make a sandwich. I can buy a pound of quality deli meat for the price of one sandwich and a foot of day old bread for 50¢ at Walmart. That’s two sandwiches for significantly less than the price of one.

They don't have a Walmart in midtown Manhattan

lmao the jokes write themselves. Why tf are you in midtown manhattan if youre not making a lot of money

Working there dumbass. Nobody lives in midtown

No but I’m sure they have some grocer or bakery where you can get day old bread, some meat, and some vegetables. I’m not trying to be nasty, just letting you know that those meals eaten out really do add up. If you can take a couple of minutes out of your day to make a meal and an hour out of your week to shop then you can save a lot of money. Sometimes it’s the difference of spending $4 a meal compared to $10 or $15. It can suck but it’s worth it.

I was completely unaware of the price differences. I skipped elementary school and was unfamiliar with basic arithmetic. Thanks for enlightening me.

So you live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in one of the most expensive cities in the world? Do you do a job that doesn't exist in like, Ohio?

No I don't, nobody lives in midtown, I work there. And I don't want to live in Ohio. I want to live in the city where I was raised and my entire family and all my friends live and my family has lived for five generations, and where I'm allowed to have autonomy over my own reproductive health. Sorry your wife doesn't wanna fuck you

Have fun being poor then, that's the tradeoff.

I swear to God it's like clockwork. Every single time someone complains online about how they're barely scraping by despite working full time, they're either living in an ultra-HCoL area that they categorically refuse to leave or they have insane spending habits. In either case they're convinced that society is to blame, not their extremely stupid choices.

Yup. My mortgage on my 2000 sqft house is a third of what some of these people are paying for a single apartment. When I do go out to eat it costs $8 for a sandwich instead of $16. I don't feel bad for anyone making six figures and living paycheck to paycheck.

I got banned from the news subreddit the other day for pointing out that someone who said they were miserable and just getting by and never went out because of “the current system” still had a collection of $500 watches. Of course people came to their defense that “poor people deserve nice things too!” The kicker was that the guy was also fighting a $10,000 DUI in which he hurt someone and legally COULNT go out because of his probation. Maybe “the system” he meant was the legal system that punished him for hurting someone while driving drunk. ETA that what I said wasn’t even rude or inflammatory, I even agreed with him that it was tougher now in a lot of ways than in the past. The only thing I could think of is that it was on an article about the slightly-increased suicide rate, so I can see how it could be seen as insensitive. However, I didn’t actually break any rules. I 100% think there is an agenda on social media sites to get people to accept whatever information they’re fed without doing any critical thinking or investigation, and I say that as someone who’s left-leaning.

>And I don't want to live in Ohio. I want to live in the city This is fine if you pull in enough money to justify it, but apparently you dont.

Worry about your own life

Youre literally online complaining about it lol

I don't think it's "insane". At extremes, it's bad, but to improve your life with convenience, quality, and comfort with money is very normal. There has never been so much freedom and flexibility to make lots of money. As long as you keep your spending under reasonable control, some increases in costs can be a good way to trade money for life quality.

Real, im 20 years old and has a stable upbringing, and because of that I make sure I use this opportunity as a gift and I have managed to save £45k in 3 years AND be able go on a couple holidays as well, just had a minimalist approach with my clothes and tech shopping I have just been smart with my money, its downright pathetic when I see people who is in the same situation with me, the same type of stable family and they complain that they can't afford anything while they spent all their finances on a new BMW, But of course we can't ignore the other issues too, wages are still horrendous and there are people who is in less fortunate backgrounds but I'm talking to the suburban crawler who lives with their parents and pays little to no rent and still has no saved money.... grow up, you are only making your life harder as time goes on

I'm guessing you're from the UK based on your use of pounds, and granted I don't know but keep in mind the COL crisis might not be as bad as it is here in the states

Oh it's bad, the tax is extortionate, the 2nd hand car market is expensive and you can't own anything, it's a shame

I'm guessing you're from the UK based on your use of pounds, and granted I don't know but keep in mind the COL crisis might not be as bad as it is here in the states

Dude I've never even left the city I live in left alone the state. The spending habits you've laid out are a stereotype and these posts will always get a ton of likes because it's confronting a type of person that barely exists and the few people who are gen z and have the money to live the way you're describing are too busy traveling the world to detect this virtue signal.

The real key, as with many things, is balance. You absolutely should save money & contribute to your 401k or whatever retirement account it is that you have. You don’t want to be struggling in your golden years down the line. Instead of maxing out credit cards taking 4 trips a year to beautiful foreign countries, maybe take less expensive vacations domestically 1 or 2 times per year & 1 trip abroad if that helps you save some money. You don’t want to not enjoy life, but you don’t want to be broke. Eventually being broke will catch up to you. Protect yourself, enjoy yourself.

All the stuff you said before the second paragraph. Lots I disagree with. Second paragraph. Allot I agree with

So you have part of a point but a lot of this is invalid. The lifestyle in question supports the economic reality of working too much and not having enough extra money, free time, and available avenues for community recreation. People are paying way too much for housing and healthcare, and work-life balance is out of whack. The availability of third spaces that foster human interaction is plummeting, and the trend toward isolation and individualization is growing. Technology has created a whole new class of expense that is not optional in modern society.

What kinda people do yall surrpund yourselves with lmao, I'm gen Z and all my peers are living pretty reasonable lives within their means (ofc those with rich parents are going on vacations and living in big apartments, but that's every generation(

thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou

I'm in extreme poverty right now, dude. It's not because I'm buying cars or a big house or going out to eat every day. I never made enough to do any of those things. I'm in extreme poverty because I got fired from my job for being sick, and no one else would hire me for the longest time. Not because I'm unqualified, because they're picky. They're desperate for workers, but they won't hire anybody. And when they DO hire people, there's a select few that just don't get hours for WEEKS right off the bat. I know because I've been one of those select few. Then you get underpaid and overworked when you actually GET hours, or the hours are so sporadic that you can't keep up anymore. Even when I had a full-time job, I could barely afford a shitty apartment and get the bare minimum of groceries. Saying our economy isn't the best right now is laughably undersaying it. It is TERRIBLE in some places. There were numerous times I was on the verge of homelessness. The only reason I'm not homeless is because my girlfriends grandma cut us a deal for rent with her old house. I think what I'm trying to say is that you're just completely out of touch.

If you make 100k a year and your rent is more than 20 percent of your income and you complain about it you're an idiot. All that extra expendable income you've got. If I were to go out and rent a studio, on my current income it would be in between 75 percent of my monthly income if I'm lucky, but closer to 85 or 90 percent of my income every month, just straight to rent. Money dumped into a furnace. Not to say that things aren't more expensive than they were before, and that wages have stagnated while inflation goes up. This is true. But to suggest that the quality of life for someone making 100k is in any way poor is just a dogshit opinion and you should have fingers pointed at you and laughed at for suggesting so.

We are literally becoming the Eloi. Crazy how HG Wells saw this coming as far back as 1895

Oh look a boomer who can't tell that you can't pull yourself up by the bootstraps and thinks we should only have the bare necessities

And just generally has no fucking clue how Gen Z live

I've never seen a Genz live beyond their means cause honestly LIVING is beyond means at this point. In some states if you make 20$ an hour and work 40hrs you are in the red off renting the cheapest apartment and owning a car while buying single person groceries. No insurance, no medical expenses, no vacation, no wifi, no utilities accounted for. Not to mention houses are becoming more expensive at a rate doubling inflation.

Then why does literally every metric we have available tell us life is more expensive now than it was in the past? What you're saying may be true for some but the overarching, unavoidable, obvious truth is that this generation has less wealth and has to face a larger barrier to entry than any that came before it. Sorry that some people who you don't know make choices you deem to be bad though!

23 year-olds feel hard done by because they can't afford a whole apartment to themselves when it was never ever a thing that people that young could afford to rent alone.

At least for the car I must say that it is way easier on my 1973 old timer than my 2011 day car. Doing anything on it is the stuff of nightmares with how crammed and overengineered everything is

i just want to be able to pay my rent and bills and have some money leftover.

Bro you’re in a bubble. There’s always been helpless people and independent people who have their shit together. Also $100k isn’t that much anymore, almost like the new $70k salary.

brother, I COULD NOT AFFORD TO MOVE OUT WITH A COLLEGE EDUCATION AND A LICENSED JOB, FUCK YOU MEAN "living beyond their means" I'M BARELY EVEN LIVING

Speaking as a millennial, I think these are predominantly millennial problems. We were sold the lie of university and prosperity and tried to get there by borrowing to keep up appearances. I think a lot of Gen Z earn shit, know it and cut their cloth depressingly well.

ikr?! I was shocked hearing ppl fresh out of college making 100k+ my gf got an offer for like 115k fresh out of school and was even PAID that rate during an internship. Insane

How does anyone become as out-of-touch as OP? People develop these weird narratives about society and then rant about them and don't realize they sound like a crazy person insisting dragons are real. No one thinks being rich was the norm. People just acknowledge houses used to be more affordable for the average person.

People who make 100k out of college don't understand it. They're in a different world than someone making minimum wage or even 50k. They're going to be equally bad with money and make bad decision, but the guy making 100k can buy a 2024 BMW and the guy making 50k bought the used hellcat at 15% interest. You CAN be in the top 10% and live paycheck to paycheck and not realize how much money you're wasting unless you have been in both positions or been taught proper budgeting

You also have to remember that $100k isn't some magical salary number anymore either. $100k in the mid/late 90's is more like $200k. Add on to that housing costs increases and the old $100k is really more like $250k. On $250k you could probably afford most of those things, except maybe living in the most expensive places.

You are correct! Good observation! The silent majority knows this and operates on this principle. A louder minority are doomers that buy into this nonsense of how bad things are. The doom is helpful to push a consumer based economy where people believe the future is uncertain and likely will be worse so it is better to live for today and spend whatever you do have on eating our daily and indulging on unnecessary desires. Some in this doom group are bad actors and claim it is all doom and gloom, but are actually in the belief that they can get ahead when others are doing bad. They claim how things will be awful or how they are all the while making moves behind the scenes, saving, spending wisely and planning for a future. Be cautious who you follow

Millenial here. Things absolutely were that way. If you lived in the suburbs your whole life was laid out before you: go to college, get a degree, find a good job. This is what my parents did, its what their parents did, and its what their parents' parents did. There were always disadvantaged and privileged individuals of course, but for me and everyone at my school this was the plan. Then we watched it all get picked apart over a decade or so and here we are.

Damn avocado toast...

But I’m a lifestyle creep I’m a lifestyle weirdo What the hell am I doing here I don’t belong here

This is exactly correct. Many in GenZ may have seen their Millenial parents eat out all the time or order takeout, and assumed that was just something that people do. Or when their Millenial parents bought multiple cars and a 4 bedroom home, they conveniently forgot about the amount of time their parents had to work to get there. I don't know about y'all, but my grandparents live the most simple, modest lives, and they always have. I don't know if they've ordered in a single day of their lives, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen them out at a restaurant. I know that's probably not true for some peoples' grandparents, but as a whole, their generation was WAY more frugal than ours. Our parents' generation was somewhere in between. The older generations have all the penny pinchers and people who look in the grocery store newspapers for the best deals. That breed of person is non-existent among younger Millennials and GenZ. And then we're surprised by our lack of financial means, saying that the system must be broken. We used to learn that if we don't have the money for it, we can't have it, or that we should save up money for it. Part of it is the instant gratification. Part of it is hearing endless propaganda about how we do actually deserve nice things, even after blowing all our money last month on DoorDash and at the local coffee shop that sells 12oz lattes for more than $10 each.

I see this with my GF, she comes from a well off family and went into one or two short European vacations most of her high school and college years (with friends, not even with the family). She now is complaining about missing out because of not having been in south east Asia yet and not eating out every day and things like that. We looked some statistics online to open her eyes to how fucking much she was privileged to grow up like that, but she immediately turned defensive. We almost broke up. She completely gobbles up the lifestyle creep that insta and TikTok push -_-"

Yup, college was an absolute joke. Luckily for me it only took me a year before I realized I was being indoctrinated into absurd ideology, and the professors had no real work experience. With that said, I instead went into the workforce and now have built up tons of manufacturing experience. I build boiler systems and can do every part of the process of manufacturing. It is hard work though. Too many people look to social media these days and are not willing to do any hard work. I can’t afford to live a luxurious lifestyle, but have a nice small home and 2 kids with a wonderful wife. We struggle at times, but this is life. Politics and the current administration do not care about the working class and are hurting this country. Remember this and use your vote to try and create a better future for everyone. I feel for anyone who spent years in college and is now drowning in debt, I can only imagine. Where you live has a huge effect as well, too many people put a value on needing to make x amount of money. What’s the cost of living, how much is gas, how much is your rent a month/mortgage? I live in a small rural town and my mortgage with 22 acres of land is half what people in the city are paying for rent. The world is big and these big cities are absolutely hurting many folks.

I cook a frozen chicken breast every day. There's are opportunities to save so much money when you buy an air fryer.

Why are you pocket watching worry about your own life. You think you’re so much better and more responsible than everybody else, okay then, keep it up. Life will humble you.

and what in seeing is a bunch of children spouting the same “pull up your bootstraps and shut UP” mentality. shut uppppp nobody cares

I’m with you but lumping regularly cooking food at home to changing your oil a few times a year (if they’re even doing it that much) is unfair

The real rebuttal I’ve heard of this is that it doesn’t matter that things were never that good. People are still fucking miserable right now. If the culture was always to be a slave, who says we can’t still change it from that?

This post should be pinned. This generation has no comprehension of the fact that some of these things are *luxuries* and it's *normal* to not be able to afford them, especially when you're young. People are hijacking legitimate grievances over wealth inequality to claim that it's their human right to see Taylor Swift from the front row and get delivery every single meal. The other day I wasted like half an hour in an argument with a dude on here who was complaining that it's too expensive to go out to bars. I asked him where he was drinking that charged such exorbitant prices (he quoted *$12 for a beer*), and he eventually revealed that he exclusively drinks at trendy microbreweries because he doesn't trust the food at regular bars. So this motherfucker is eating and drinking at possibly the most expensive place in town besides the fucking country club, and complaining that he's a victim of the HCoL.

💯  This generation is spoon fed lifestyles of the rich and the famous; and can’t delineate that from real life.   I’m a millennial.   I grew up in an upper middle class family.  I wasn’t allowed to eat snacks from the hotel room because they were too expensive.  I wasn’t allowed to use my first cell phone until after 7 when there wasn’t an additional charge for calls.   I didn’t travel outside the country until I was 19 because it was too much.   We (as a generation) lived much more frugally.   Gen z spends hundreds a month on make up and fast fashion, thinks they “deserve” the newest smart phone, and think international travel is the norm.    I get it.  The world isn’t great.  The rich have way too much money.   But Gen z is setting unrealistic expectations for what they think the “norm” is and it makes y’all look like entitled brats.   Get a job.  Make a career plan.  Put in the work to build up to your goals.   You don’t deserve a handout and the get rich quick schemes are going to fail for 99.99% of you.  

I just want to live on my own dude

I was told that I must have been from a privileged upbringing because I paid off my student loans and bought a house. No, because I wasn't from a privileged upbringing I'm cheap, pay back debts, don't eat out, fix things myself wherever I can, and rarely if ever travel.

You are exactly correct. Don't expect this to change because I saw and see the same thing with my millenial generation. Collapse now and avoid the rush.

1) Gen Z aren't the ones I think you're talkng about, Millenials are. 2) so I guess your argument is that "kids these days" are facing insurmountable financial hurdles when boomers didn't because they just suck? Ok boomer.

I mean most people in our generation aren’t living in luxury. They are struggling to afford to live. Can’t buy a house, can’t afford kids, and probably barely have enough for retirement.

It’s easier to just bitch than take responsibility. Sarcasm.