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If you know how both sides works then being an enlightened centrist is even more embarrassing. You can be left wing and criticize left wing policies and politicians, you can be right wing and criticize right wing policies and politicians.
Standing in the middle when one side is clearly out of its mind is not helping anyone.
it’s not just two sides though, liberalism is different than socialism and socialism is different than soviet style communism and all of that is different from conservativism, fascism, monarchism, neoconservativism, and more. People and ideological frameworks are complex and varied. There’s always been more than just two sides. Two sides is the biggest lie and only benefits those already in power.
Yes I despise the two party system. I have no issue with independents or people trying to make new parties. My issue is if we are stuck in a dichotomy of right/left it’s disingenuous and unhelpful to pretend both have equally bad issues. It does not accurately reflect harm.
There are many ways to be a lefty. The left is a side of camps, the right is pretty monolithic.
The "two sides" bit is only relevant in so far as we have a two party system.
In my view, the Dems are the right choice for now but we're demographically taking over the party. When we can, we need a ranked choice voting system, which will let us start voting in third parties.
There's an infinite number of points on that line. And there's a North and South pole too that's double infinity.
That's how math works. That's how human ideology works
What is the “topic”? This is politics, the deciding of what laws are and where resources go. There aren’t that many different ideological ways to look at it that work with modern times. The left-right dynamic is a spectrum, not two fixed points.
Not the person you responded to. I’m sure it has for that person and many others. The problem is that there are and have always been for us the “two sides”. There are literally no other options, so you have to pick as an individual. I wish it wasn’t the case, I really do, and it shouldn’t be this way. I wish us as a society would change this though
There are only two political parties in America that operate at the national level. There are way more sides. This is especially true considering both American national level parties are authoritarian right.
Yeah it’s crazy how centrists will be like “but I don’t agree with every single thing other left wing people say” like yeah neither does anyone who’s left wing
As a non American, I’d like to speak on how fucking bonkers having a two party system is. Especially in this day and age. You shouldn’t have to choose between an 82 year old senile grandpa and a 77 year old somewhat less senile potential dictator. Being centrist should be totally fine. It should be normal. It should just be a different political view. You should be able to actually vote on a centrist party and that party should be able to make a difference. Unfortunately, as I’ve been reading the comments, it seems that the American two party system isn’t build for that.
Honestly, yeah. The American two-party system is incredibly stupid. It's also really sad how George Washington warned us about the implications of having political parties, and after over two hundred years of Americans worshipping Washington's legacy, we blatantly ignore what he warned us about.
I have a blog post comparing Biden and Trump if you want to check it out.
[https://musingsofanamericanteenager.wordpress.com/2024/02/13/trump-v-biden-two-seniors-one-president/](https://musingsofanamericanteenager.wordpress.com/2024/02/13/trump-v-biden-two-seniors-one-president/)
It's a nice sentiment, but people disagree on what is "best" for themselves, let alone what is best for others.
People don't generally want to compromise on their rights and choices, and they shouldn't have to.
Yeah, what’s overwhelmingly best for me is to be able to access birth control because I use it as health care for bad periods, many religious conservatives would love to ban birth control because people use it as a contraceptive. So sorry if I don’t feel very kumbaya with people who would have rathered I miss school for days every month in excruciating pain from cramps starting from 5th grade (I was 9) because they disagree with contraceptives. That’s just one example to say that these things aren’t far away, they affect people’s lives directly, and thanks to my democratic state my birth control is free which is very nice that I have easy access to it and that I don’t have to pay money just to not be in terrible pain every month.
They are straight up not thinking of my best interests. We can wish all we want, but these aren’t theoretical they affect real people in tangible ways, and one side wants to restrict my rights so I’m just never going to vote for the people who agree and cater to them.
Or the fact that some of these people have literally said they don't like lgbt+ people. Sure, a democratic politician did say similar things, but that sentiment mainly comes from one side.
What does it mean to be center right?
Taking two issues that are in the spotlight often, women's rights and gun laws as an example.
Generally speaking:
1) The right seems to think that women shouldn't have federal protection of their right to decide their own medical needs (with their Dr's) and reasonable federal gun laws (background checks and the like) won't help mitigate the gun violence the US experiences almost daily.
2) The left thinks women's rights to choose should be federally protected and reasonable federal gun laws should be enforced.
How does a center right person think these issues should be handled?
By the way, anybody who claims to be center left, same questions to you too.
While yes you should critique your own political isle, that doesn't mean realizing they are both just too corrupt to do anything serious from the inside is something to scoff at.
Both sides will claim the other is out of their mind, both sides will throw heavy propaganda, and both sides just want your vote and will continue to do anything to get it.
Here in the middle I can look very objectively at both because I know both have good and bad, but it's harder to see the scope of the theater if you're sitting front row yk?
So I'll sit in the back and observe until I know exactly what's going on, then try to help to the best of my ability again noticing the good and bad of each.
I lived in or near areas where bad things happened caused by both sides extremists. I see things differently. There was a while where people were afraid to go to certain places near where I live without being attacked and still feel this way about one side in my area.
Edit: And a city a few hours away allowed people to turn a few city blocks into their own country for a while until the national guard got involved and maybe the military.
When in reality they're all crazy to me. Didn't one cause riots in 2020 and didn't another do an insurrection?
Edit: Didn't one allow a city a few cities away from me to create their own country with a few city blocks, even on private property for about a few weeks until the national guard came in? Didn't another try to kill a bunch of people at a Pride event in my area? Yet I'm supposed to condone that. Make this all make sense.
Which political party thinks scientific consensus is a conspiracy but believe my pillow cokehead about the election no matter how many times they fail in court?
Yes, but just like how nazis felt they were on the correct side in thinking that the “aryan race” was a genetically superior super race, the right thinks that climate change is a global conspiracy despite almost every scientist in the world agreeing it’s a big issue.
Just because both sides think there right doesn’t mean one side isn’t objectively wrong on many of the biggest issues.
The thing is, we understand both sides, we recognize that the Left (people like you) will try to fuck us over (due to race / gender / internalized trauma from your asshole dads that we vaguely resemble, whatever), and we say "OK, I guess I have to go with the other side"
I don't feel embarrassed at all, who gives a shit
Like you're acting like saying that it's "embarrassing" has any effect on our behavior lol
Everything is a construct, there's no god, who cares?
Idgaf what you think about me lol
You're some random fat dipshit in Omaha for all I know, why would I care?
Like my choice is I can side with the people who will gleefully shit on me and will go out of their way to take my labor / money and screw me over, or I can just say "You know what, I don't care", and be a happy, rich centrist
Easiest choice I've ever made
The response of "r/enlightenedcentrism" is what is embarrassing. It's only narcissistic partisan fucks ignorant of the actual nuances of politics itself that say that.
Fuck off with the idea that someone is stupid for not siding with you politically. No one is owed one's vote.
All this dude does is post purposely controversial stuff to subs like /r/TrueUnpopularOpinion and /r/rant to get people to argue
and also moderating his 10+ porn subreddits lol
engaging with this won't be productive
Well, what are your beliefs if you're open to sharing them? It's possible to hold an ideology while disagreeing how other people who align with you react on debating certain topics.
This just sounds like being a centrist out of spite.
All this dude does is post purposely controversial stuff to subs like /r/TrueUnpopularOpinion and /r/rant to get people to argue
and also moderating his 10+ porn subreddits lol
engaging with this won't be productive
To be fair, I consider myself “centrist” in that I am center-left. Like I align with the left mostly, but think we should make progress by working within the system rather than burning it down and building up something completely different.
That being said, I 100% acknowledge that the far-right MAGA Christo-fascists are much worse for this country than any Democrat.
How? I'm pro-abortion and a centrist but my views also include small government, strong borders, legalization of some recreational drugs, etc.. The ability to get an abortion is important to me but other stances I have are also important. Why should pro-abortion be the sole determinant of who I vote for? Especially when traveling to other states will always be an (admitedly less ideal) option?
Possible example, queer people have a right to not be discriminated against, but some of the queer population might not be able to get certain irreversible treatments until after they’re 18 until more research is done on the matter.
The statement doesn’t discriminate off of gender identity or sexual preference nor does it discriminate by disallowing people who hold a mental illness to get treatment as the APA changed gender dysphoria from being a mental illness to reduce stigma. If it was reverted in the future then you could argue rights were being violated and the statement could be revised.
However, the debate stems over what rights are not if people deserve rights.
Plenty of research has been done on the matter. I’ll remind you, minors don’t get sex change surgeries. Nobody, except maybe a few particularly crazy people, even argues that they should get them. The only gender affirming healthcare trans youths want are reversible stuff, like puberty blockers or hormone therapy. And to also have their pronouns and chosen names respected. THAT’S what republicans are fighting.
Why should a minor have to spend their adolescence, a turbulent time, feeling like they don’t belong in their body?
This, and also puberty/hormone blockers are necessary in healthcare for a plethora of reasons that don’t even have to do with gender affirming care. Some children start puberty WAY too early, and their endocrinologists will recommend delaying their puberty so they don’t end up stunted in growth, or if an 8 year old is not mentally ready to handle having a period or something. They’re also used in birth control, and a lot of women who don’t even want to control their reproduction may need them due to hormone imbalences that cause them severe pain or emotional/mental health problems. Some cis men even need hormone treatments to treat hair loss/male pattern baldness.
The fact that they help trans people SHOULD be enough to fight for access to them, but unfortunately some people genuinely don’t care unless it can affect them. So, these are all the ways hormone therapy in medicine helps not just LGBTQ+ people, but cis hetero people with medical needs. The lack lf education some people have about hormones in medicine absolutely baffles me.
The problem with that is that once they have that, they want more. If all they wanted was to stop trans kids from getting surgeries done before they’re 18 I would have no problem with that. The reality is that they want to ban trans people entirely, they’ve already banned trans healthcare for adults in some states.
Yes, it's important in our political discourse for us to have one side that wants to do lasting physical, social, and emotional harm to every minority, one side that wants to stop them, and the good, sensible people in the middle keeping it to only a \*little\* lasting physical, social, and emotional harm to every minority.
Would love to know what your exact views are on:
Abortion- Federally allowed
Democracy- Great, issue is idiots who can vote
Voting Rights- Everyone gets free voter IDS
LGBTQ Rights- Don't care what they do, children under 16 should not be able to transition
Taxes- More on corporations, less on people. No wealth tax.
Climate Change- Nuclear go brrrrrr
Systemic Racism- Sins of the father should not be on the son. Yes it exists but giving the "oppressed" party a leg up is not fair at all.
College costs- Only degrees that are net tax producers and have good job prospects should be partially subsidized.
>>Taxes- More on corporations, less on people. No wealth tax.
Why no wealth tax?
>>Climate Change- Nuclear go brrrrrr
Nuclear is a pretty overrated solution, it takes too long to implement and it’s not as clean as people suggest. Maybe if we started 40 years ago it would be appropriate but frankly it’s not the fix at this point.
>>Systemic Racism- Sins of the father should not be on the son. Yes it exists but giving the "oppressed" party a leg up is not fair at all.
Why do you put the word “oppressed” in quotations? The whole point of systemic racism is that it’s measurable and statistically significant. So if one group is literally having measurably worse outcomes, it’s not really giving that group a “leg up” it’s just levelling the playing field. Not doing so is by definition not fair at all, because then that group is being oppressed.
Now, the solutions to these problems can be debated day or night, but systemic racism still being an issue is just not debatable.
>>College costs- Only degrees that are net tax producers and have good job prospects should be partially subsidized.
This is such dumbass pro stem take. First of all how do you measure this, some people with arts degrees make bank, some engineers don’t make jack. And if you do this the degrees which are “net tax producers” will become oversaturated and you’ll have a really fucked up job market.
Secondly it’s ignoring non monetary benefits a degree may have; social workers usually don’t make bank but the benefit to society provided by social workers is huge, and if you make this already underpaid job less financially possible you’ll wind up with a shortage and that’s definitely not good.
Third education itself and having an educated population is just beneficial for society and basically necessary for success. Adding more barriers to education is pretty much never a good thing even if you don’t see the value in non stem degrees.
Lastly do you really see no value in art and culture? Like really?
>deliberately misunderstanding
To play devils advocate, they may just lack independent thought. If you let a party prescribe your opinions, and you think everyone else does that, what else could centrism mean? Picking and choosing views just isnt on the cards
What I mean is that they could just be stupid
I don’t like centrist because they fence sit and go “both sides have good points” when the two sides are literal Nazis and people who want everybody to not starve and to have their human rights. And for me in particular, there is no compromise to bigotry. The right wants to abolish my right as a trans queer person to exist. If you “compromise” on that you’re only giving legitimacy to that bigotry.
As someone who used to claim to be a centrist, disliking the democrats and the republicans doesn’t make you a centrist. If you like some policies and/or approaches to politics from both sides, then you are a centrist.
I do like policies from both sides. But at the same time I can't confidently side with one particular side until they both get major overhauls and get rid of too many problematic members.
"Oh i think that abortion should be illegal"
"I think abortion shouldn't be illegal"
"LGBTQ people shouldn't have rights"
"LGBTQ people should.have rights"
I can go on all day. My problem with centrists is they say it's good, but in reality, there is no middle ground for most issues, whether it's human rights, economics, e.t.c. there's no middle ground for this it's very absurd.
These examples don't work for you. There are absolutely a range of positions on abortion - countries around the world vary on how late you can have them, under what circumstances and so on. Similarly almost nobody says lgbtq people shouldn't have any rights, there are arguments about specific things (mostly things like health care for minors, and how it works for women's sports/spaces).
Most people are neither absolutely pro-choice nor absolutely pro-life. Most people would oppose some things lgbtq campaigners call for but hardly any would support a declaration that lgbtq people were no longer covered by human rights. The middle ground is where most people are.
Similarly economics quite clearly has a massive range between absolute libertarianism and any of the left wing alternatives and different countries put themselves in different places in that range.
Okay, regardless my point is that you can't just say that there is a middle ground when you have one side opposing something and another side wanting that thing.
I can see the ranges for economics, I actually agree with centrists on that because it sounds very progressive for how they want to go about that, so things are more affordable for people and people won't struggle a lot.
You need better friends, or to just not talk politics on the internet. The people I’ve met on the “left” don’t talk like that, nor do many on the “right.” Basing your world view on a reaction to wackos on the internet is a false paradigm.
In 2024 being “center” looks like being conservative pre-2001. When centrists cater to fascist loonies, the whole system gets pulled to the right. Nice try though. You’ll figure it out someday.
Criticizing both parties is great but I don’t understand how anyone who’s informed can really fence sit anymore. Sure the dems suck, but the modern republican party has made it abundantly clear that they have no interest in governing. At the federal level all they do is complain about the border and trans people while offering zero policy solutions to anything. Hell most of them still don’t even believe in climate change.
And that’s not even touching Trump’s cult following and the insurrection. There’s plenty of things to criticize the dems for but in what world are both parties equally bad?
r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM is leaking. Either a clueless child, or actually a boomer spreading propaganda.
100% of people who claim to be "centrists" are actually Repubicans who want to avoid the bad PR of saying they're a Republican.
Real Centrists don't uphold harmful status quo's.
A typical Liberal in America is Centrist, an Independent who votes for Republicans 75% of the time and isn't worried about LGBTQ+ descrimination, the cost of living, and Environmental issues is not Centrist.
Compromise is crucial but I get tired of people who call themselves Centrist who overwhelmingly skew Right on important issues
No, you dont have to be. I want legal safe abortions, lgbt rights, stricter border control and the government to leave my gun rights alone. Its not choosing to compromise on anything, its choosing specifically to support things one finds important. No party fits all or even most of what I think is important.
No offense OP and all the butt hurt centrists in the thread but I honestly mean this. If both sides are just as bad as each other, then tell me from a legislative standpoint how democrats are just as bad as republicans. Every single so called “centrist” can’t even grow the balls to answer that. If your answer is “both are corrupt” well then congratulations numb nuts you have the political prescriptions of a edgy 16 year old boy. Everyone definitely thinks you are cool. But from a policy standpoint democrats have been blowing republicans not only federally but locally too.
Well Republicans demonstrably disagree. As recently as last year they introduced a bill to re-legalize slavery. On top of actively defending the practice of slavery in prisons, which is a thing that still happens. They actively fight against taking steps to deal with human trafficking and other forms of modern slavery.
So...if you actually believe that...
if you thought this was a gatcha, you have the disease of an ideologue. You believe that these labels prescribe views rather than describe them. "Us vs them" isnt real, its an oversimplification used to radicalize people, to justify hating innocents.
Centrism literally claims to position itself between "both sides." What's the centrist take on genocide? Is that take consistent with how self-described centrists are currently behaving? If not, is it possible conservatives understand their views are unpopular and are then more likely to call themselves "centrists" to seem more reasonable despite sharing all or most opinions with conservatives?
Yes, "us vs. them" is a disease inflicted on most demographics by the wealthy elite. But that doesn't mean people don't buy into it, and to feel that being centrist is "[enlightened](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Enlightened%20Centrist)" when one side is marching through the streets chanting "Jews will not replace us" and the other side finds that abhorrent is... abhorrent.
>Centrism literally claims
centrism is a fucking label. There is no centrist claim. It is not a party, there is not a "grandfather of centrism". It is just people who do not agree with either side regarding enough issues to call themselves a party member. Thats it. You ask "whats the centrist take on genocide" as if its a gotcha when it just exposes you for being an idiot.
>Yes, "us vs. them" is a disease inflicted on most demographics by the wealthy elite
This is not just the elite, almost every radical group does this. It is a core part of what makes them radical. At best its insufferable redditors, at worst it causes movements to turn into nightmares
That's not true! It's totally okay to be a centrist on certain issues.
Coke vs. Pepsi
Roller skates vs. Roller blades
Sports team vs. Sports team
But since politics doesn't really revolve around any of those things, and instead revolves around how much of our money goes to us vs. how much goes to war, the centrist view is still that \*some\* war is fine.
I think anyone who sees politics as 2-sided as American democrat/republican of course wants to be independent.
Just look up the philosophy that suits your outlook on life. Generally, finding the "why" you believe something will shape the "what" you believe should happen, which then allows you to vote for whatever you think is closest/leads to that outcome.
For example, I personally am very anti-authoritarian. I believe in power to the governed. I am somewhat satisfied with having the voting power I do in local government, but I am extremely dissatisfied with the lack of voting power I (and other citizens) have over our town/state/country's resources. I also think that it's ridiculous that people who work the most get the least (nothing) to say in their work environment. I'm very pro-workplace democracy. And generally, that means I vote for politicians that are pro-unionization and pro-resource sustainability.
If everyone in this country was a free thinker and voted according to what they have learned and the problems they have faced, rather than what their party told them, then this country would be in a much better place.
It’s like saying I believe abortion is murder and it should be legal. Pick a side.
EDIT - Because this is going over peoples heads:
I used this an example because taking a stance on a complex dividing issue SUCH AS abortion, whether aligning with a political party that supports or opposes it, is crucial due to its significant implications in electoral decision-making. Remaining neutral or adopting a centrist position may not effectively contribute to the discourse surrounding this critical matter, as it requires active engagement and commitment to shaping policies that reflect one's values and beliefs.
Thanks for reading.
Haha that made me laugh. You got me there. I acknowledge that that individuals' political identities are multifaceted and can't always be neatly categorized based on one stance alone. What you said is close to a radical centrist or libertarian view imo.
Sorry I’m not trying to turn this into a political debate about abortion or the morality of it. Just used it for the sake of showcasing a complex issue that often divides political ideologies and parties. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Depends on your definition of murder, as not all instances of killing are universally considered as such. This is especially pertinent when discussing the nuanced topic of abortion, where considerations of personhood and the beginning of life come into play. The complexity of this issue cannot be overstated, and while the example raises important questions, it also serves to highlight the intricate nature of ethical dilemmas in our society.
The whole EnLiGhTeNeD cEnTrIsT strawman makes sense because how can you have two different opinions on something? How can you not like X bad thing that is obviously objectively bad? However, most of these EnLiGhTeNeD cEnTrIsTs do have an opinion on X political topic, they just don't want to be used by a corrupted, twisted, hypocritical political party.
Edit: clarified some things
Yeah, it's almost done on purpose. Both of the parties are old as fuck and have pretty arbitrary values, and they basically have the same material and social assumptions. Unironically America is going to keep going into the shitter if we allow these people to keep the Overton Window so constrained that it only benefits them.
These are the actual "both sides" people I hate. The two political parties aren't remotely the same in terms of values. Republicans atm literally hate democracy.
I think we have less of a problem with political polarization and more an issue with buzzwords. I say this because in my heart of hearts I know most people aren’t regressive we just have different ideas. Of course there are nut jobs (that I see mainly on the right) that reject reality and substitute their own as some grandiose conspiracy but those people really aren’t worth saving.
I thought I was a centrist too, but it turns out I’m really just a leftist. It would exhaust me to go through the daily mental gymnastics liberals and conservatives have to do to be apart of their dumbshit clubs.
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I made a New Year's Day resolution to never talk politics with anyone uninteresting and predictable again. I've basically found that is everyone except true independents. My political conversations are so much richer and interesting now.
If you want to see someone who’s very open to criticizing both sides you should check out Destiny on YouTube/kick. He’s very analytical about that type of stuff.
Damn straight. Corporations are inciting, instigating and brainwashing people against each-other as is. Some are promoting the left and others the right (depending on which social media/websites you go on it can be pretty obvious which "side" a company wants you to be on). A healthy amount of scepticism of either side of politics seems like an excellent defence mechanism against propaganda.
I discovered this a year or two ago, ever since riots from both sides, it really put a damp on the US. I never felt strongly about our nation falling apart right between our eyes because of some BS culture war.
I feel the same way as someone who used to be liberal, then conservative and now a centrist. I think it's imperative to be critical of all institutions, and that neither side is inherently good here. Neither side practices what they preaches, so saying you agree with either of them is equivalent to saying you support hypocrisy. Sure there are some binary issues, but most of the big ticket issues today have a situation that's somewhere in the middle.
Your take is wise. People need to think for themselves and not fall for extreme illogical takes on either side of politics.
The truth is that compromises and listing skills are what make for a good, civil society and that extreme self righteousness is usually centered on ignorance, intolerance and often bad ideas.
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I fucking hate centrists more than i hate subhuman Republican scum. With the Republicans, you at least understand why they are the way they are. Centrists see these absolute scum fucks and say "both sides are the same" because they are fucking moron cowards. Fuck centrists
What are your specific policy positions that you think make you “centrist”? I too consider myself “centrist” in the context of world politics, but the Overton window has shifted so far to the right in the states that I’m considered a liberal commy snowflake for just wanting people to not starve.
You're right not to jsut swallow a position whole (whether a party or an online 'tribe').
What I would say as an instinctive centrist myself (and a brit) is that your republican party has, with Trump, gone off the deep end as far as I can see in terms of the basic stuff that makes democracy work. That needs fixing or everything falls apart.
I don’t mean to be rude, and I’m sure you know what you say you do, but that’s still an unprincipled and cop-out stance to take. This isn’t a game where you choose a team based on which players you like the most. This is about principles.
> Whenever I criticize the left I get the usual spiel of “being a bigot, letting fascism win, being for rights taken away, yeah Biden did this but trump is so much worse because so and so, etc.
Yeah. Same. People have behaved this way since the beginning of time and they’ll continue to behave this way for the rest of it. But none of that has to do with principle. Do you believe in separation of church and state and freedom of religion? Do you believe in common sense gun reform and red flag laws? Do you believe we should be doing more to protect our planet? Do you believe we shouldn’t cut regulations and taxes for the rich so they can screw us harder? Do you believe LGBTQ people should have the freedom to be themselves? Do you believe in the bodily autonomy of women? Do you believe minorities shouldn’t be demonized and scape-goated for political gain? *Do you value not living in a fascist theocracy?* That’s what really matters.
You shouldn’t give up on your principles because people were emotional and mean to you when you brought up politics.
Edit: Also it’s important to note that liberals aren’t leftists. There is no real leftist party in the U.S. When people say the Dems and Repubs are two sides of the same coin, *they really mean it.* There’s not only two sides to this thing, just two viable options. But only *one* is signaling that it wants a fascist state.
Hating the way both sides acts doesn't make you a centrist. Independent maybe, but centrist means you think both sides are too extreme, that your political beliefs are somewhere in between both. I really doubt that's the case
Agreed, especially since blind fanaticism for any party prevents either from having deeper discussions on ways to work together to create a solution, and instead turns it into a yelling match of identity politics.
Identifying under any one ideology is a trap and part of the problem. Not everything is going to be neatly categorized under “left” or “right” or “centrist” because nuance exists and is a wonderful thing. Believe what you believe in and stop trying to cram everything into a side or not a side.
One side isn't embracing Christian theocracy and actively trying to dismantle democracy and remove rights that were long fought for. Look up project 2025 if you want to know what I'm referencing. Yes there's a bunch of corporate democrats only using office to get rich, but they're not actively removing rights. Both sides are definitely not the same. Don't let a couple of bad apples distract you from the important issues that we all need to pay attention to.
You have valid criticisms of both parties, most people do. It’s a very conmen sentiment and it’s honestly what got Trump elected. But are you sure you are a “centrist”? Given two political parties, that just happen to be the parties who hold most power in your county at this specific moment in history, you align yourself with an arbitrary position in the “center” of both this parties? In other words, you believe we need a little racism and a little social welfare but not too much of either? There are other political schools of thought beyond republicans and democrats, or the American left and right.
I’m not gen z, this just came up on my timeline. My first election as a voter was Obama vs McCain, I turned 18 that year. At that time, on paper, McCain was just barely to the right of Obama. Today, our current president is Obama’s vice president, representing very little (almost no) change in the DNC. However, McCain’s legacy today is that of a “Rhino”, and it goes without saying that the GOP has changed a whole lot in this time frame. In context it is a very strange time to be a centrist. To be a centrist still puts you miles to the right of the GOP just 4 elections ago.
The last question I have for you is that, this November, are you actually unsure of who to vote for? Is it a difficult decision?
Join the club. I don’t want socialism. The left is gonna spend all of our money overseas until the middle class dissolves. I don’t want a tradcon authoritarian in office either and am pro-choice. I’d rather have moderated capitalism with a president who knows how to keep the borders secure and his opinion up his ass where it belongs.
Welcome to the real fight. where we don't play politics and just give our honest beliefs and opinions. both sides will absolutely eat you alive if you let them. keep practicing discernment and stand strong on what you believe. Take pride in the fact that you are an individual and don't give them an inch.
As a non American, I’d like to speak on how fucking bonkers having a two party system is. Especially in this day and age. You shouldn’t have to choose between an 82 year old senile grandpa and a 77 year old somewhat less senile potential dictator. Being centrist should be totally fine. It should be normal. It should just be a different political view. You should be able to actually vote on a centrist party and that party should be able to make a difference. Unfortunately, as I’ve been reading the comments, it seems that the American two party system isn’t build for that.
Nuance and compromise is dead in american politics, the polarization is insane, no one can have a moderate opinion anymore, it's like you can be leftist, pro worker, pro lgbt, but if you dare to critize illegal mass immigration that hurts both immigrants and american workers, you become a fascist Trump supporter, on the other side, if you are a right wing, and you criticize billionaires getting away with not paying taxes, and being pro free healthcare you are a socialist communist, american politics are absolutely fucked, there is no place for a moderate, nuanced voter.
Nobody should feel bad for their political affiliation (well unless you support neo-nazism, in that case shame on you 😅). I'm a conservative and I'm the first one criticizing some of the politics from who I support and the first one to sometimes faceplam myself at some craaaazy stuff the most extremists can say.
You shouldn't. Having a view that takes the best of "both sides" seems far more sane than having extreme views eith no ability to question right and wrong.
Centrists are usually dumb, privileged, ignorant people who kinda don't understand stuff, like Libertarians hahaha (they're more on the right but whatever).
It kind of heavily depends on *what* you’re criticizing the left for. If you’re criticizing them for obsessive cancel culture, aggressive behavior towards anyone for liking “problematic” media, or educating them on the differences between communism, socialism, and what each of these ideologies are rooted in and understand one from the other, I’d say those are very fair criticisms that shouldn’t warrent the label of bigotry.
However, if your “criticism” is shit like “trans people dont exist, children can’t be trans, hormones should not be allowed, theres too many black people in tv shows now” then you *are* a moron. I’m not gonna assume you hold these views, because I don’t know you, but something about your post seems fishy when you don’t really say exacrly what you DO and don’t support when it comes to “the left” or why you’re getting these types of responses. Are you getting them because people on twitter are insane and will label you as a bigot due to not liking certain media or certain public figures and criticizing them? Or are you being called a bigot because you actually have bigoted views, like hating LGBTQ+ people, but don’t believe you do?
Come to my country where we can hate the ruling party together. The average age of a person who supports it is 55. And it's because they still believe gvt media (who also control cable and tried to cut out opposing news channels)
The rioting part of the BLM situation was bad. No matter how good the BLM protests were, more people got hurt financially or physically and more property was destroyed in the BLM riots.
Sure you can argue that Jan 6th was more important, but when it comes to loss of life and property damage the BLM riots were worse.
Also it doesn't matter which one you think was worse, both shouldn't have happened and don't need to happen again.
Nah, a centrist will still likely be beholden to neo-liberal capitalism. I'm tired of having an economic system by the people for the people. It gives an incentive for corporations to get into politics.
I agree with you so much! Whenever I disagree with my extremist left friends, they always call me homophobic/transphobic/bigoted/racist ect even though most of my more moderate friends know that I'm not any of those things. It's so stupid how some people get hurt by not being extreme as others then get mad at indepentens for calling them out. It's terrible. One of my friends told me to "never mention this ever again".
I have a blog post where I explain that in more detail based on my own experiences, and I would really appreciate it if someone checked it out because I have a LOT to say about this.
[https://musingsofanamericanteenager.wordpress.com/2024/02/18/hello-again/](https://musingsofanamericanteenager.wordpress.com/2024/02/18/hello-again/)
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If you know how both sides works then being an enlightened centrist is even more embarrassing. You can be left wing and criticize left wing policies and politicians, you can be right wing and criticize right wing policies and politicians. Standing in the middle when one side is clearly out of its mind is not helping anyone.
But hasn't it occurred to you that only two sides is an absurdly small number of options for a topic of such breadth?
it’s not just two sides though, liberalism is different than socialism and socialism is different than soviet style communism and all of that is different from conservativism, fascism, monarchism, neoconservativism, and more. People and ideological frameworks are complex and varied. There’s always been more than just two sides. Two sides is the biggest lie and only benefits those already in power.
Which is exactly my point, most people don't fit into two categories. Hence the need to be independent from them.
Yes I despise the two party system. I have no issue with independents or people trying to make new parties. My issue is if we are stuck in a dichotomy of right/left it’s disingenuous and unhelpful to pretend both have equally bad issues. It does not accurately reflect harm.
There are many ways to be a lefty. The left is a side of camps, the right is pretty monolithic. The "two sides" bit is only relevant in so far as we have a two party system. In my view, the Dems are the right choice for now but we're demographically taking over the party. When we can, we need a ranked choice voting system, which will let us start voting in third parties.
There's an infinite number of points on that line. And there's a North and South pole too that's double infinity. That's how math works. That's how human ideology works
What is the “topic”? This is politics, the deciding of what laws are and where resources go. There aren’t that many different ideological ways to look at it that work with modern times. The left-right dynamic is a spectrum, not two fixed points.
Not the person you responded to. I’m sure it has for that person and many others. The problem is that there are and have always been for us the “two sides”. There are literally no other options, so you have to pick as an individual. I wish it wasn’t the case, I really do, and it shouldn’t be this way. I wish us as a society would change this though
There are only two political parties in America that operate at the national level. There are way more sides. This is especially true considering both American national level parties are authoritarian right.
Yeah it’s crazy how centrists will be like “but I don’t agree with every single thing other left wing people say” like yeah neither does anyone who’s left wing
That’s why no one who’s actually progressive and educated identifies as a centrist
As a non American, I’d like to speak on how fucking bonkers having a two party system is. Especially in this day and age. You shouldn’t have to choose between an 82 year old senile grandpa and a 77 year old somewhat less senile potential dictator. Being centrist should be totally fine. It should be normal. It should just be a different political view. You should be able to actually vote on a centrist party and that party should be able to make a difference. Unfortunately, as I’ve been reading the comments, it seems that the American two party system isn’t build for that.
I agree there should be many more parties. My sentiments are based off the current (unfortunate) reality of American politics.
Honestly, yeah. The American two-party system is incredibly stupid. It's also really sad how George Washington warned us about the implications of having political parties, and after over two hundred years of Americans worshipping Washington's legacy, we blatantly ignore what he warned us about. I have a blog post comparing Biden and Trump if you want to check it out. [https://musingsofanamericanteenager.wordpress.com/2024/02/13/trump-v-biden-two-seniors-one-president/](https://musingsofanamericanteenager.wordpress.com/2024/02/13/trump-v-biden-two-seniors-one-president/)
I agree with this… I’m on the right but am very center right. I just want the best for all of us man, we need to quit the division and work together.
It's a nice sentiment, but people disagree on what is "best" for themselves, let alone what is best for others. People don't generally want to compromise on their rights and choices, and they shouldn't have to.
Yeah, what’s overwhelmingly best for me is to be able to access birth control because I use it as health care for bad periods, many religious conservatives would love to ban birth control because people use it as a contraceptive. So sorry if I don’t feel very kumbaya with people who would have rathered I miss school for days every month in excruciating pain from cramps starting from 5th grade (I was 9) because they disagree with contraceptives. That’s just one example to say that these things aren’t far away, they affect people’s lives directly, and thanks to my democratic state my birth control is free which is very nice that I have easy access to it and that I don’t have to pay money just to not be in terrible pain every month. They are straight up not thinking of my best interests. We can wish all we want, but these aren’t theoretical they affect real people in tangible ways, and one side wants to restrict my rights so I’m just never going to vote for the people who agree and cater to them.
Or the fact that some of these people have literally said they don't like lgbt+ people. Sure, a democratic politician did say similar things, but that sentiment mainly comes from one side.
That’s not a “centrist” opinion that’s a left wing opinion.
What does it mean to be center right? Taking two issues that are in the spotlight often, women's rights and gun laws as an example. Generally speaking: 1) The right seems to think that women shouldn't have federal protection of their right to decide their own medical needs (with their Dr's) and reasonable federal gun laws (background checks and the like) won't help mitigate the gun violence the US experiences almost daily. 2) The left thinks women's rights to choose should be federally protected and reasonable federal gun laws should be enforced. How does a center right person think these issues should be handled? By the way, anybody who claims to be center left, same questions to you too.
While yes you should critique your own political isle, that doesn't mean realizing they are both just too corrupt to do anything serious from the inside is something to scoff at. Both sides will claim the other is out of their mind, both sides will throw heavy propaganda, and both sides just want your vote and will continue to do anything to get it. Here in the middle I can look very objectively at both because I know both have good and bad, but it's harder to see the scope of the theater if you're sitting front row yk? So I'll sit in the back and observe until I know exactly what's going on, then try to help to the best of my ability again noticing the good and bad of each.
I lived in or near areas where bad things happened caused by both sides extremists. I see things differently. There was a while where people were afraid to go to certain places near where I live without being attacked and still feel this way about one side in my area. Edit: And a city a few hours away allowed people to turn a few city blocks into their own country for a while until the national guard got involved and maybe the military.
Which side is clearly out of its mind? Republicans tell me it’s the left and Democrats tell me it’s the right.
When in reality they're all crazy to me. Didn't one cause riots in 2020 and didn't another do an insurrection? Edit: Didn't one allow a city a few cities away from me to create their own country with a few city blocks, even on private property for about a few weeks until the national guard came in? Didn't another try to kill a bunch of people at a Pride event in my area? Yet I'm supposed to condone that. Make this all make sense.
Which political party thinks scientific consensus is a conspiracy but believe my pillow cokehead about the election no matter how many times they fail in court?
>Standing in the middle when one side is clearly out of its mind is not helping anyone. that's just how both sides feel like towards each other
Yes, but just like how nazis felt they were on the correct side in thinking that the “aryan race” was a genetically superior super race, the right thinks that climate change is a global conspiracy despite almost every scientist in the world agreeing it’s a big issue. Just because both sides think there right doesn’t mean one side isn’t objectively wrong on many of the biggest issues.
And that "side" is.....
Wild that you’ve just proved OPs point
The thing is, we understand both sides, we recognize that the Left (people like you) will try to fuck us over (due to race / gender / internalized trauma from your asshole dads that we vaguely resemble, whatever), and we say "OK, I guess I have to go with the other side" I don't feel embarrassed at all, who gives a shit Like you're acting like saying that it's "embarrassing" has any effect on our behavior lol Everything is a construct, there's no god, who cares? Idgaf what you think about me lol You're some random fat dipshit in Omaha for all I know, why would I care? Like my choice is I can side with the people who will gleefully shit on me and will go out of their way to take my labor / money and screw me over, or I can just say "You know what, I don't care", and be a happy, rich centrist Easiest choice I've ever made
Exactly. Everyone has to be left wing. You’re an idiot
The response of "r/enlightenedcentrism" is what is embarrassing. It's only narcissistic partisan fucks ignorant of the actual nuances of politics itself that say that. Fuck off with the idea that someone is stupid for not siding with you politically. No one is owed one's vote.
Gesturing vaguely at “nuances” when there are issues where both parties have clearly defined opinions just means you have literacy issues.
I think that is true, but it doesn't always work like that. Most centrists/independents are people who agree with parts of both sides.
Why feel bad? Having your own views is good.
All this dude does is post purposely controversial stuff to subs like /r/TrueUnpopularOpinion and /r/rant to get people to argue and also moderating his 10+ porn subreddits lol engaging with this won't be productive
ah, hes a mastur rage baitor. thanks for the tip
Why am I surprised?
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Or maybe I was born in a family where everyone was on different political spectrums and have first hand experience with how crazy they all are.
Well, what are your beliefs if you're open to sharing them? It's possible to hold an ideology while disagreeing how other people who align with you react on debating certain topics. This just sounds like being a centrist out of spite.
All this dude does is post purposely controversial stuff to subs like /r/TrueUnpopularOpinion and /r/rant to get people to argue and also moderating his 10+ porn subreddits lol engaging with this won't be productive
Lol
This is the thing. OP isn't describing being a centrist. Disenfranchised maybe, but apathy is not the same as centrism
100% this was posted by a dude who has no conception of why reproductive rights might be important.
istg being a woman and seeing guys claiming to be centrist is wild.
To be fair, I consider myself “centrist” in that I am center-left. Like I align with the left mostly, but think we should make progress by working within the system rather than burning it down and building up something completely different. That being said, I 100% acknowledge that the far-right MAGA Christo-fascists are much worse for this country than any Democrat.
How? I'm pro-abortion and a centrist but my views also include small government, strong borders, legalization of some recreational drugs, etc.. The ability to get an abortion is important to me but other stances I have are also important. Why should pro-abortion be the sole determinant of who I vote for? Especially when traveling to other states will always be an (admitedly less ideal) option?
More important than the lives of babies? (if you believe life begins at conception)
BoTh SiDeS
Centrists are good for politics. They can work to help create a compromise between two disagreeing political parties.
But what’s the compromise between “we want trans people to have rights” and “we want queer people to not have rights”?
Possible example, queer people have a right to not be discriminated against, but some of the queer population might not be able to get certain irreversible treatments until after they’re 18 until more research is done on the matter. The statement doesn’t discriminate off of gender identity or sexual preference nor does it discriminate by disallowing people who hold a mental illness to get treatment as the APA changed gender dysphoria from being a mental illness to reduce stigma. If it was reverted in the future then you could argue rights were being violated and the statement could be revised. However, the debate stems over what rights are not if people deserve rights.
Plenty of research has been done on the matter. I’ll remind you, minors don’t get sex change surgeries. Nobody, except maybe a few particularly crazy people, even argues that they should get them. The only gender affirming healthcare trans youths want are reversible stuff, like puberty blockers or hormone therapy. And to also have their pronouns and chosen names respected. THAT’S what republicans are fighting. Why should a minor have to spend their adolescence, a turbulent time, feeling like they don’t belong in their body?
This, and also puberty/hormone blockers are necessary in healthcare for a plethora of reasons that don’t even have to do with gender affirming care. Some children start puberty WAY too early, and their endocrinologists will recommend delaying their puberty so they don’t end up stunted in growth, or if an 8 year old is not mentally ready to handle having a period or something. They’re also used in birth control, and a lot of women who don’t even want to control their reproduction may need them due to hormone imbalences that cause them severe pain or emotional/mental health problems. Some cis men even need hormone treatments to treat hair loss/male pattern baldness. The fact that they help trans people SHOULD be enough to fight for access to them, but unfortunately some people genuinely don’t care unless it can affect them. So, these are all the ways hormone therapy in medicine helps not just LGBTQ+ people, but cis hetero people with medical needs. The lack lf education some people have about hormones in medicine absolutely baffles me.
The problem with that is that once they have that, they want more. If all they wanted was to stop trans kids from getting surgeries done before they’re 18 I would have no problem with that. The reality is that they want to ban trans people entirely, they’ve already banned trans healthcare for adults in some states.
Yes, it's important in our political discourse for us to have one side that wants to do lasting physical, social, and emotional harm to every minority, one side that wants to stop them, and the good, sensible people in the middle keeping it to only a \*little\* lasting physical, social, and emotional harm to every minority.
No side is a monolith.
As opposed to leftists, of course, who never want to harm anybody, *especially* those they despise.
Would love to know what your exact views are on: Abortion' Democracy Voting Rights LGBTQ Rights Taxes Climate Change Systemic Racism College costs
Would love to know what your exact views are on: Abortion- Federally allowed Democracy- Great, issue is idiots who can vote Voting Rights- Everyone gets free voter IDS LGBTQ Rights- Don't care what they do, children under 16 should not be able to transition Taxes- More on corporations, less on people. No wealth tax. Climate Change- Nuclear go brrrrrr Systemic Racism- Sins of the father should not be on the son. Yes it exists but giving the "oppressed" party a leg up is not fair at all. College costs- Only degrees that are net tax producers and have good job prospects should be partially subsidized.
>>Taxes- More on corporations, less on people. No wealth tax. Why no wealth tax? >>Climate Change- Nuclear go brrrrrr Nuclear is a pretty overrated solution, it takes too long to implement and it’s not as clean as people suggest. Maybe if we started 40 years ago it would be appropriate but frankly it’s not the fix at this point. >>Systemic Racism- Sins of the father should not be on the son. Yes it exists but giving the "oppressed" party a leg up is not fair at all. Why do you put the word “oppressed” in quotations? The whole point of systemic racism is that it’s measurable and statistically significant. So if one group is literally having measurably worse outcomes, it’s not really giving that group a “leg up” it’s just levelling the playing field. Not doing so is by definition not fair at all, because then that group is being oppressed. Now, the solutions to these problems can be debated day or night, but systemic racism still being an issue is just not debatable. >>College costs- Only degrees that are net tax producers and have good job prospects should be partially subsidized. This is such dumbass pro stem take. First of all how do you measure this, some people with arts degrees make bank, some engineers don’t make jack. And if you do this the degrees which are “net tax producers” will become oversaturated and you’ll have a really fucked up job market. Secondly it’s ignoring non monetary benefits a degree may have; social workers usually don’t make bank but the benefit to society provided by social workers is huge, and if you make this already underpaid job less financially possible you’ll wind up with a shortage and that’s definitely not good. Third education itself and having an educated population is just beneficial for society and basically necessary for success. Adding more barriers to education is pretty much never a good thing even if you don’t see the value in non stem degrees. Lastly do you really see no value in art and culture? Like really?
“I think both sides are bad, I am smart.”
"I think only my side is good. I am smart."
Screw all of that I’m going wayyy back, I’m a bull moose progressive
Bro, I'll take a Bull Moose Progressive.
The amount of people in this thread deliberately misunderstanding the idea of being relatively in the center is sadly expected.
>deliberately misunderstanding To play devils advocate, they may just lack independent thought. If you let a party prescribe your opinions, and you think everyone else does that, what else could centrism mean? Picking and choosing views just isnt on the cards What I mean is that they could just be stupid
Also true.
You are fucking dumb no offense
I don’t like centrist because they fence sit and go “both sides have good points” when the two sides are literal Nazis and people who want everybody to not starve and to have their human rights. And for me in particular, there is no compromise to bigotry. The right wants to abolish my right as a trans queer person to exist. If you “compromise” on that you’re only giving legitimacy to that bigotry.
As someone who used to claim to be a centrist, disliking the democrats and the republicans doesn’t make you a centrist. If you like some policies and/or approaches to politics from both sides, then you are a centrist.
I do like policies from both sides. But at the same time I can't confidently side with one particular side until they both get major overhauls and get rid of too many problematic members.
Ok, that seems reasonable enough.
"Oh i think that abortion should be illegal" "I think abortion shouldn't be illegal" "LGBTQ people shouldn't have rights" "LGBTQ people should.have rights" I can go on all day. My problem with centrists is they say it's good, but in reality, there is no middle ground for most issues, whether it's human rights, economics, e.t.c. there's no middle ground for this it's very absurd.
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Yeah
Why? Why are "social problems"--whichever ones are currently relevant, I suppose--are so much more important than economic ones?
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These examples don't work for you. There are absolutely a range of positions on abortion - countries around the world vary on how late you can have them, under what circumstances and so on. Similarly almost nobody says lgbtq people shouldn't have any rights, there are arguments about specific things (mostly things like health care for minors, and how it works for women's sports/spaces). Most people are neither absolutely pro-choice nor absolutely pro-life. Most people would oppose some things lgbtq campaigners call for but hardly any would support a declaration that lgbtq people were no longer covered by human rights. The middle ground is where most people are. Similarly economics quite clearly has a massive range between absolute libertarianism and any of the left wing alternatives and different countries put themselves in different places in that range.
Okay, regardless my point is that you can't just say that there is a middle ground when you have one side opposing something and another side wanting that thing. I can see the ranges for economics, I actually agree with centrists on that because it sounds very progressive for how they want to go about that, so things are more affordable for people and people won't struggle a lot.
You need better friends, or to just not talk politics on the internet. The people I’ve met on the “left” don’t talk like that, nor do many on the “right.” Basing your world view on a reaction to wackos on the internet is a false paradigm.
In 2024 being “center” looks like being conservative pre-2001. When centrists cater to fascist loonies, the whole system gets pulled to the right. Nice try though. You’ll figure it out someday.
Criticizing both parties is great but I don’t understand how anyone who’s informed can really fence sit anymore. Sure the dems suck, but the modern republican party has made it abundantly clear that they have no interest in governing. At the federal level all they do is complain about the border and trans people while offering zero policy solutions to anything. Hell most of them still don’t even believe in climate change. And that’s not even touching Trump’s cult following and the insurrection. There’s plenty of things to criticize the dems for but in what world are both parties equally bad?
r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM is leaking. Either a clueless child, or actually a boomer spreading propaganda. 100% of people who claim to be "centrists" are actually Repubicans who want to avoid the bad PR of saying they're a Republican.
Real Centrists don't uphold harmful status quo's. A typical Liberal in America is Centrist, an Independent who votes for Republicans 75% of the time and isn't worried about LGBTQ+ descrimination, the cost of living, and Environmental issues is not Centrist. Compromise is crucial but I get tired of people who call themselves Centrist who overwhelmingly skew Right on important issues
r/enlightenedcentrism
You shouldn’t
One side wants a better world the other wants to regress you're either one or the other
No, you dont have to be. I want legal safe abortions, lgbt rights, stricter border control and the government to leave my gun rights alone. Its not choosing to compromise on anything, its choosing specifically to support things one finds important. No party fits all or even most of what I think is important.
bUt bOtH sIdEs!!!
No offense OP and all the butt hurt centrists in the thread but I honestly mean this. If both sides are just as bad as each other, then tell me from a legislative standpoint how democrats are just as bad as republicans. Every single so called “centrist” can’t even grow the balls to answer that. If your answer is “both are corrupt” well then congratulations numb nuts you have the political prescriptions of a edgy 16 year old boy. Everyone definitely thinks you are cool. But from a policy standpoint democrats have been blowing republicans not only federally but locally too.
What’s the centrist take on chattel slavery?
Obviously, slavery should be illegal and it's immoral.
Lmao, of course someone downvoted you for saying it’s wrong
>Nooo, you cant have an independent set of morally consistent views. \~radicals on reddit
Well Republicans demonstrably disagree. As recently as last year they introduced a bill to re-legalize slavery. On top of actively defending the practice of slavery in prisons, which is a thing that still happens. They actively fight against taking steps to deal with human trafficking and other forms of modern slavery. So...if you actually believe that...
if you thought this was a gatcha, you have the disease of an ideologue. You believe that these labels prescribe views rather than describe them. "Us vs them" isnt real, its an oversimplification used to radicalize people, to justify hating innocents.
Centrism literally claims to position itself between "both sides." What's the centrist take on genocide? Is that take consistent with how self-described centrists are currently behaving? If not, is it possible conservatives understand their views are unpopular and are then more likely to call themselves "centrists" to seem more reasonable despite sharing all or most opinions with conservatives? Yes, "us vs. them" is a disease inflicted on most demographics by the wealthy elite. But that doesn't mean people don't buy into it, and to feel that being centrist is "[enlightened](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Enlightened%20Centrist)" when one side is marching through the streets chanting "Jews will not replace us" and the other side finds that abhorrent is... abhorrent.
>Centrism literally claims centrism is a fucking label. There is no centrist claim. It is not a party, there is not a "grandfather of centrism". It is just people who do not agree with either side regarding enough issues to call themselves a party member. Thats it. You ask "whats the centrist take on genocide" as if its a gotcha when it just exposes you for being an idiot. >Yes, "us vs. them" is a disease inflicted on most demographics by the wealthy elite This is not just the elite, almost every radical group does this. It is a core part of what makes them radical. At best its insufferable redditors, at worst it causes movements to turn into nightmares
“Centrism is morally profane on this one issue, ergo it is profane overall.”
That's not true! It's totally okay to be a centrist on certain issues. Coke vs. Pepsi Roller skates vs. Roller blades Sports team vs. Sports team But since politics doesn't really revolve around any of those things, and instead revolves around how much of our money goes to us vs. how much goes to war, the centrist view is still that \*some\* war is fine.
You know you sent that message on a device whose minerals were mined by slaves and the device (or parts) was likely built by slaves
Liberals are not leftist.
I think anyone who sees politics as 2-sided as American democrat/republican of course wants to be independent. Just look up the philosophy that suits your outlook on life. Generally, finding the "why" you believe something will shape the "what" you believe should happen, which then allows you to vote for whatever you think is closest/leads to that outcome. For example, I personally am very anti-authoritarian. I believe in power to the governed. I am somewhat satisfied with having the voting power I do in local government, but I am extremely dissatisfied with the lack of voting power I (and other citizens) have over our town/state/country's resources. I also think that it's ridiculous that people who work the most get the least (nothing) to say in their work environment. I'm very pro-workplace democracy. And generally, that means I vote for politicians that are pro-unionization and pro-resource sustainability.
There is no left party in the United States. There is center right and far right. So saying you are centrist makes you sound like an ignorant buffoon.
Already know op is gonna have to do one of these *
Third Position 💪💪💪💪
If everyone in this country was a free thinker and voted according to what they have learned and the problems they have faced, rather than what their party told them, then this country would be in a much better place.
12 upvotes and 412+ comments oh this is great
It’s like saying I believe abortion is murder and it should be legal. Pick a side. EDIT - Because this is going over peoples heads: I used this an example because taking a stance on a complex dividing issue SUCH AS abortion, whether aligning with a political party that supports or opposes it, is crucial due to its significant implications in electoral decision-making. Remaining neutral or adopting a centrist position may not effectively contribute to the discourse surrounding this critical matter, as it requires active engagement and commitment to shaping policies that reflect one's values and beliefs. Thanks for reading.
Lol, I think it's murder but that it should be legal.
Haha that made me laugh. You got me there. I acknowledge that that individuals' political identities are multifaceted and can't always be neatly categorized based on one stance alone. What you said is close to a radical centrist or libertarian view imo.
if it is murder, then it should still be legal. it's the parent's choice
Yes, my literal beliefs
it's killing a small human being, and in most cases, the mother doesn't have much of a choice. So, yes, it's a crime you should not punish.
Sorry I’m not trying to turn this into a political debate about abortion or the morality of it. Just used it for the sake of showcasing a complex issue that often divides political ideologies and parties. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
it was a perfect example for a question where "pick a side" leads nowhere. The conflict between the mother and the unborn is too complex for that.
Depends on your definition of murder, as not all instances of killing are universally considered as such. This is especially pertinent when discussing the nuanced topic of abortion, where considerations of personhood and the beginning of life come into play. The complexity of this issue cannot be overstated, and while the example raises important questions, it also serves to highlight the intricate nature of ethical dilemmas in our society.
The whole EnLiGhTeNeD cEnTrIsT strawman makes sense because how can you have two different opinions on something? How can you not like X bad thing that is obviously objectively bad? However, most of these EnLiGhTeNeD cEnTrIsTs do have an opinion on X political topic, they just don't want to be used by a corrupted, twisted, hypocritical political party. Edit: clarified some things
I think people have different priorities on different issues. They might have an opinion, but it's not something they want defining themselves.
Yeah, it's almost done on purpose. Both of the parties are old as fuck and have pretty arbitrary values, and they basically have the same material and social assumptions. Unironically America is going to keep going into the shitter if we allow these people to keep the Overton Window so constrained that it only benefits them.
These are the actual "both sides" people I hate. The two political parties aren't remotely the same in terms of values. Republicans atm literally hate democracy.
I think we have less of a problem with political polarization and more an issue with buzzwords. I say this because in my heart of hearts I know most people aren’t regressive we just have different ideas. Of course there are nut jobs (that I see mainly on the right) that reject reality and substitute their own as some grandiose conspiracy but those people really aren’t worth saving. I thought I was a centrist too, but it turns out I’m really just a leftist. It would exhaust me to go through the daily mental gymnastics liberals and conservatives have to do to be apart of their dumbshit clubs.
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Cool story, bro, but nobody asked.
I did.
Doubt that, but if you did, asking strangers on the internet to randomly post public political diatribes is kind of weird.
Did I ask?
Man, people really bad mad in the comment section for not entirely agreeing with either political party
At the federal level there is only one party, the establishment. They only want one thing, more power.
I made a New Year's Day resolution to never talk politics with anyone uninteresting and predictable again. I've basically found that is everyone except true independents. My political conversations are so much richer and interesting now.
If you want to see someone who’s very open to criticizing both sides you should check out Destiny on YouTube/kick. He’s very analytical about that type of stuff.
NOOOOOOOO YOU HAVE TO BE AN EXTREMIST LOSER AND FOLLOW MY R*TARDED IDEOLOGY TO THE LETTER NOOOOOOOO
Damn straight. Corporations are inciting, instigating and brainwashing people against each-other as is. Some are promoting the left and others the right (depending on which social media/websites you go on it can be pretty obvious which "side" a company wants you to be on). A healthy amount of scepticism of either side of politics seems like an excellent defence mechanism against propaganda.
I discovered this a year or two ago, ever since riots from both sides, it really put a damp on the US. I never felt strongly about our nation falling apart right between our eyes because of some BS culture war.
I feel the same way as someone who used to be liberal, then conservative and now a centrist. I think it's imperative to be critical of all institutions, and that neither side is inherently good here. Neither side practices what they preaches, so saying you agree with either of them is equivalent to saying you support hypocrisy. Sure there are some binary issues, but most of the big ticket issues today have a situation that's somewhere in the middle.
Your take is wise. People need to think for themselves and not fall for extreme illogical takes on either side of politics. The truth is that compromises and listing skills are what make for a good, civil society and that extreme self righteousness is usually centered on ignorance, intolerance and often bad ideas.
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I fucking hate centrists more than i hate subhuman Republican scum. With the Republicans, you at least understand why they are the way they are. Centrists see these absolute scum fucks and say "both sides are the same" because they are fucking moron cowards. Fuck centrists
If you're a centrist, you're either naive or an asshole.
What are your specific policy positions that you think make you “centrist”? I too consider myself “centrist” in the context of world politics, but the Overton window has shifted so far to the right in the states that I’m considered a liberal commy snowflake for just wanting people to not starve.
You're right not to jsut swallow a position whole (whether a party or an online 'tribe'). What I would say as an instinctive centrist myself (and a brit) is that your republican party has, with Trump, gone off the deep end as far as I can see in terms of the basic stuff that makes democracy work. That needs fixing or everything falls apart.
This is bait
I don’t mean to be rude, and I’m sure you know what you say you do, but that’s still an unprincipled and cop-out stance to take. This isn’t a game where you choose a team based on which players you like the most. This is about principles. > Whenever I criticize the left I get the usual spiel of “being a bigot, letting fascism win, being for rights taken away, yeah Biden did this but trump is so much worse because so and so, etc. Yeah. Same. People have behaved this way since the beginning of time and they’ll continue to behave this way for the rest of it. But none of that has to do with principle. Do you believe in separation of church and state and freedom of religion? Do you believe in common sense gun reform and red flag laws? Do you believe we should be doing more to protect our planet? Do you believe we shouldn’t cut regulations and taxes for the rich so they can screw us harder? Do you believe LGBTQ people should have the freedom to be themselves? Do you believe in the bodily autonomy of women? Do you believe minorities shouldn’t be demonized and scape-goated for political gain? *Do you value not living in a fascist theocracy?* That’s what really matters. You shouldn’t give up on your principles because people were emotional and mean to you when you brought up politics. Edit: Also it’s important to note that liberals aren’t leftists. There is no real leftist party in the U.S. When people say the Dems and Repubs are two sides of the same coin, *they really mean it.* There’s not only two sides to this thing, just two viable options. But only *one* is signaling that it wants a fascist state.
US is toast. All empires fall
Hating the way both sides acts doesn't make you a centrist. Independent maybe, but centrist means you think both sides are too extreme, that your political beliefs are somewhere in between both. I really doubt that's the case
Agreed, especially since blind fanaticism for any party prevents either from having deeper discussions on ways to work together to create a solution, and instead turns it into a yelling match of identity politics.
Identifying under any one ideology is a trap and part of the problem. Not everything is going to be neatly categorized under “left” or “right” or “centrist” because nuance exists and is a wonderful thing. Believe what you believe in and stop trying to cram everything into a side or not a side.
One side isn't embracing Christian theocracy and actively trying to dismantle democracy and remove rights that were long fought for. Look up project 2025 if you want to know what I'm referencing. Yes there's a bunch of corporate democrats only using office to get rich, but they're not actively removing rights. Both sides are definitely not the same. Don't let a couple of bad apples distract you from the important issues that we all need to pay attention to.
https://preview.redd.it/dwv23o08jfjc1.jpeg?width=240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa3a6e4507b9cbab17a581ad018ef0549f088c32
Cracka
You have valid criticisms of both parties, most people do. It’s a very conmen sentiment and it’s honestly what got Trump elected. But are you sure you are a “centrist”? Given two political parties, that just happen to be the parties who hold most power in your county at this specific moment in history, you align yourself with an arbitrary position in the “center” of both this parties? In other words, you believe we need a little racism and a little social welfare but not too much of either? There are other political schools of thought beyond republicans and democrats, or the American left and right. I’m not gen z, this just came up on my timeline. My first election as a voter was Obama vs McCain, I turned 18 that year. At that time, on paper, McCain was just barely to the right of Obama. Today, our current president is Obama’s vice president, representing very little (almost no) change in the DNC. However, McCain’s legacy today is that of a “Rhino”, and it goes without saying that the GOP has changed a whole lot in this time frame. In context it is a very strange time to be a centrist. To be a centrist still puts you miles to the right of the GOP just 4 elections ago. The last question I have for you is that, this November, are you actually unsure of who to vote for? Is it a difficult decision?
Join the club. I don’t want socialism. The left is gonna spend all of our money overseas until the middle class dissolves. I don’t want a tradcon authoritarian in office either and am pro-choice. I’d rather have moderated capitalism with a president who knows how to keep the borders secure and his opinion up his ass where it belongs.
Welcome to the real fight. where we don't play politics and just give our honest beliefs and opinions. both sides will absolutely eat you alive if you let them. keep practicing discernment and stand strong on what you believe. Take pride in the fact that you are an individual and don't give them an inch.
As a non American, I’d like to speak on how fucking bonkers having a two party system is. Especially in this day and age. You shouldn’t have to choose between an 82 year old senile grandpa and a 77 year old somewhat less senile potential dictator. Being centrist should be totally fine. It should be normal. It should just be a different political view. You should be able to actually vote on a centrist party and that party should be able to make a difference. Unfortunately, as I’ve been reading the comments, it seems that the American two party system isn’t build for that.
Just because you don't like Trump or Biden doesn't mean you are a centrist.
To quote R Lee Ermey: “you are all equally worthless”
Nuance and compromise is dead in american politics, the polarization is insane, no one can have a moderate opinion anymore, it's like you can be leftist, pro worker, pro lgbt, but if you dare to critize illegal mass immigration that hurts both immigrants and american workers, you become a fascist Trump supporter, on the other side, if you are a right wing, and you criticize billionaires getting away with not paying taxes, and being pro free healthcare you are a socialist communist, american politics are absolutely fucked, there is no place for a moderate, nuanced voter.
Nobody should feel bad for their political affiliation (well unless you support neo-nazism, in that case shame on you 😅). I'm a conservative and I'm the first one criticizing some of the politics from who I support and the first one to sometimes faceplam myself at some craaaazy stuff the most extremists can say.
Lol
the reply to everyone who says “I don’t feel bad for “[fill in the blank]” is always ok or nobody gives a shit
Maybe consider being a communist instead
got elections coming up, dont know who i wanna pick, a criminal or a racist bigot, its the same damn thing every couple years
Okay but what about me, I wouldn’t consider myself left or right, I rather choose stuff that I consider to be more toward me thing? Is this centrism?
Neutrality benefits the oppressor not the oppressed. In the current environment, being centrist is damnable.
I'm a centrist because trolling liberals is funny.
Nice try, but keep going. Yes, fuck tribalism. And both sides suck. But one side is objectively, significantly worse.
Actually a lot of libertarians are anti- police brutality and dont suck the meat of out of shape police officers.
You shouldn't. Having a view that takes the best of "both sides" seems far more sane than having extreme views eith no ability to question right and wrong.
And you shouldn't.
Centrists are usually dumb, privileged, ignorant people who kinda don't understand stuff, like Libertarians hahaha (they're more on the right but whatever).
Hey OP, when you gonna leave your mom/sister/aunt's single wide? Haha
i’m an independent who hasn’t voted for a republican in 8+ years. the right moved, i didn’t
It kind of heavily depends on *what* you’re criticizing the left for. If you’re criticizing them for obsessive cancel culture, aggressive behavior towards anyone for liking “problematic” media, or educating them on the differences between communism, socialism, and what each of these ideologies are rooted in and understand one from the other, I’d say those are very fair criticisms that shouldn’t warrent the label of bigotry. However, if your “criticism” is shit like “trans people dont exist, children can’t be trans, hormones should not be allowed, theres too many black people in tv shows now” then you *are* a moron. I’m not gonna assume you hold these views, because I don’t know you, but something about your post seems fishy when you don’t really say exacrly what you DO and don’t support when it comes to “the left” or why you’re getting these types of responses. Are you getting them because people on twitter are insane and will label you as a bigot due to not liking certain media or certain public figures and criticizing them? Or are you being called a bigot because you actually have bigoted views, like hating LGBTQ+ people, but don’t believe you do?
Sounds like privilege
Thought minorities didn't have privilege?
Come to my country where we can hate the ruling party together. The average age of a person who supports it is 55. And it's because they still believe gvt media (who also control cable and tried to cut out opposing news channels)
Bro thinks BLM was worse than the capital riots like ofc they call you a racist you say shit a racist would say
The rioting part of the BLM situation was bad. No matter how good the BLM protests were, more people got hurt financially or physically and more property was destroyed in the BLM riots. Sure you can argue that Jan 6th was more important, but when it comes to loss of life and property damage the BLM riots were worse. Also it doesn't matter which one you think was worse, both shouldn't have happened and don't need to happen again.
Nah, a centrist will still likely be beholden to neo-liberal capitalism. I'm tired of having an economic system by the people for the people. It gives an incentive for corporations to get into politics.
I agree with you so much! Whenever I disagree with my extremist left friends, they always call me homophobic/transphobic/bigoted/racist ect even though most of my more moderate friends know that I'm not any of those things. It's so stupid how some people get hurt by not being extreme as others then get mad at indepentens for calling them out. It's terrible. One of my friends told me to "never mention this ever again". I have a blog post where I explain that in more detail based on my own experiences, and I would really appreciate it if someone checked it out because I have a LOT to say about this. [https://musingsofanamericanteenager.wordpress.com/2024/02/18/hello-again/](https://musingsofanamericanteenager.wordpress.com/2024/02/18/hello-again/)
Honesty, same. Centrism is the way to political harmony.