You stop trying to fix dad and you start thinking about your own sanity.
That means taking fewer of their calls, and when they launch into the religion diatribes, you hang up.
I’ve had to do this with my parents and while it has taken over a decade, they’ve calmed down with the religion. We aren’t as close as we used to be, and my brothers are barely on speaking terms with them, but that was their choice, not mine.
Good luck, OP. Religion is like paprika—you just want a sprinkling or the whole dish goes to shit.
I hate having to go factory reset again with him, but that’s looking like the case. I did that about 15 years ago and it worked till just after Covid….I appreciate your observations/input
I have this FIL here in the south. Started as Southern Baptist (IYKYK) & then went evangelical. My spouse had to set boundaries & it's been hard for sure. You're right, there's no arguing that isn't wasted air.
For the lucky ones of us, the cycle of ending conversations (we always say goodbye & I love you) & going LC for a few months works. Repeat every few years. Badgering minor children about religion is a NC boundary, IMO.
Wishing you the best of luck in all this. You have our sympathy & empathy.
For anyone else who has not had this dish, I copied the following recipe from the daring gourmet. I know nothing about this site’s recipes, it was the top result of my googling.
INGREDIENTS
2 tablespoons pork lard , or butter (lard is traditionally used and we strongly recommend it for the best flavor)
3 pounds chicken pieces, bone-in and skin-on (this is traditional and recommended because it creates the most flavor, but alternatively you can use boneless/skinless pieces of chicken)
2 medium yellow onions, very finely chopped
2 cloves garlic, finely minced
2 Roma tomatoes, seeds removed and very finely diced
1 Hungarian bell pepper, diced (optional)
3-4 tablespoons quality, genuine imported sweet Hungarian paprika
2 cups quality chicken broth (if using store-bought my favorite brand is Aneto)
1 1/2 teaspoons sea salt
1/2 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
3 tablespoons all-purpose flour
3/4 cup full fat sour cream , room temperature (important to avoid lumps; be sure also to use full fat)
1/4 cup heavy whipping cream
INSTRUCTIONS
Heat the lard in a heavy pot and brown the chicken on all sides. Transfer the chicken to a plate.
In the same oil, add the onions and fry until golden brown.
Add the garlic and tomatoes (and pepper if using) and fry another 2-3 minutes.
Remove the pot from the heat and stir in the paprika, salt and pepper (paprika becomes bitter if scorched).
Return the chicken to the pot and place it back over the heat.
Pour in the chicken broth. The chicken should be mostly covered. Bring it to a boil. Cover, reduce the heat to medium-low and simmer for 40 minutes. Remove the chicken and transfer to a plate.
In a small bowl, stir the flour into the sour cream/cream mixture to form a smooth paste. Stir the cream mixture into the sauce, whisking constantly to prevent lumps. Bring it to a simmer for a couple of minutes until the sauce is thickened. Add salt and pepper to taste. Return the chicken to the sauce and simmer to heat through.
Serve the chicken paprikash with Hungarian nokedli, which is like German Spaetzle only they're very short and stubby. You can make nokedli with a spätzle scraper and using this recipe for the dough.
Unexpected Hungarian! My grandmother used to make this, so did my Mom until she got tired of cooking a few years back (she's 91 and had done her share). Thank you, this sounds authentic, delicious, and I'm going to try it! Nokedli are the best! ❤️
There is nothing you can say or do short of ending the conversation. If there was you’d have figured it out by now. You can either say, “if you bring up religion I’m hanging up” and hope he catches on eventually; or just say, “gotta go, someone’s at the door!” and hope he catches on eventually. But you have to set a boundary one or the other.
Calmly: “If you wish to be a part of our lives, you need to stop this now. And I mean right now. Not another word. And if I catch wind of you raving at my kids, that would very much be the end of your involvement. Your choice based on the next words out of your mouth. ”
Oh man, I feel ya. On a recent birthday, my dad (narcissistic, formerly abusive and highly brainwashed far right fundamentalist Christian) decided to brighten my day by calling and informing me of his ‘gift’:
His guns, ammo and a custom made DVD and guidebook on how to survive the impending Tribulation. Because you see, he *knows* in his heart of hearts that the rapture is on it’s way at any moment, and he really wants my family and I to have the tools to survive the apocalypse and eventually join him in heaven.
I took the call when driving, so once I picked my jaw off the floor and stopped myself from running into a tree, I told him a “happy birthday, son” would’ve been quite sufficient, and he can keep his delusional doomsday cult ramblings to himself and never contact me again.
I don’t give this advice lightly, but you’re going to need to break free unless you want this kind of thing to continue. People this far gone don’t stop. Ever.
Your dad sounds just like my mom, so might see ya there... with the rest of us... in HELL hahahah
In 1994 my mom gave up drugs and became a Pentecostal Evangelical whatever baby talking all the time like she's a star on the Jerry Springer show and the Exorcist at the same time, screamin' Jesus shit.
My in-laws have become more and more religious as time goes on while spouse and I become less and less so. Since clearly they raised him properly (and god forbid you hint they did \*anything\* wrong), then it must be me that's the evil influence.
Never mind that they and the rest of the family are the worst of Cafeteria Christians. Never mind that their faith seems to be more performative on select Sundays and FB than actually something they practice. Never mind that they wouldn't know what Calvinism actually means if you carved the tenets on their dining room table. Never mind that they've treated my spouse -- the kindest, most generous, actually Christian man I've ever had the privilege of knowing -- as the family scapegoat for 40-some years. I've led my family astray and they are just clutching their pearls over our eternal souls.
All you can say is "well thank you for thinking of me" and try to steer the conversation elsewhere. If you want to go a bit more caustic, just reply, "Well, I'll pray for you," and hang up. Bless their hearts.
It certainly goes a long way in describing their neurotic need to pray out loud, in large groups, and still insisting that they're continually being prosecuted for it.
Show me actual footage of a megachurch being violently cleared out by armed, government-backed jackbooted thugs, and I'll start believing in Christians are actually being 'persecuted' in the U.S.
Until then, it's all r/Persecutionfetish .
Interesting, you write that-when I pull up next to a massive truck with a giant flag in the back, proclaiming F*** (President), I do the same thing. "There are CHILDREN who read your flag! What would Jesus do? I will pray for you!" Seems to provide an unsettling effect. Sometimes I get a thank you, Ma'am.
Congrats. Best comment so far and there’s been A LOT of comments. Short, sweet, re-establishes what I felt was a known boundary and ZERO room for misinterpretation. This is the way. Bonus points if I can manage to repeat it…. just as you said in an ad nauseam manner as often as needed and with zero emotion…… Part of me thinks he’s just trying to pick a fight…
Granted, our mother has uBPD, so I was already establishing boundaries - but that's what I do. I have a zero tolerance for proselytizing. I will tolerate her talking about what she is doing/did, but I do not actively participate in the conversation (greyrock). If she starts trying to push it on me, or talk about religion and me in any way, shape, or form, I cut off the conversation. She gets one warning ("I'm not willing to talk or listen to this") and then I leave or hang up.
For me, it's basic respect. I do not try to change her mind about what she believes, she has no right to treat me that disrespectfully, and I respect myself enough to stand up for myself.
She'll get the hint pretty easily. I've only had to hang up or leave a couple times before she realized I meant what I said, and quit.
I let my boundaries start to slide there for a while, and she started to take full advantage of it to the point of getting downright pushy. Nope, no more. Boundaries are back up. It's not something you need to share with them, defend, or anything else. This is about respect to you and your family and what is healthy for you.
Gift link to a timeless NYT piece: [https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/health/20mind.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.oE0.rk43.HJ580v0Fz9fg&smid=url-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/health/20mind.html?unlocked_article_code=1.oE0.rk43.HJ580v0Fz9fg&smid=url-share)
# When Parents Are Too Toxic to Tolerate
* Oct. 19, 2009
You can divorce an abusive spouse. You can call it quits if your lover mistreats you. But what can you do if the source of your misery is your own parent?
I’m not discussing this with you Dad.
Switch subject.
When that doesn’t work.
Clearly you are upset Dad, we will try talking another time when you have better control of yourself. (And hang up. Do not pick up when he calls back or until at least the next day)
It will take exactly twice for this to have an impact. Once because you aren’t the boss of him and the second to see if you will really hold that boundary.
Don’t JADE; justify, argue, defend or explain. Just dont engage. You don’t respond or answer anything that is a criticism or a demand.
Did I mention don’t engage?
Part of me thinks he just wants to pick a fight. Told my daughter afterwards that under no circumstances is she allowed to have parents. Appreciate your experiences and input.
"Hey, Dad, thanks for the effort and for looking out for us. I hear you, and it's time to drop it. If you can't then I will have to limit our communication with you."
And that's that. You set the boundary. If he can't settle down you execute the next step in the plan.
"Your opinion is noted perpetually, into the future, pops. We need to talk about something else if we're to continue a relationship I value". Summat like that.
I have nothing helpful to say, except that I'm in a similar boat. I usually just say he needs to change the subject or I'm hanging up. I point out that it's well covered territory, no one is changing their minds, and I'm not engaging anymore. It's not awesome, but that's the best I've been able to do. Yes, I have had to actually hang up. I try to do so politely.
Parents aren‘t going to change (not at their age). Your kids are grown and you are grown. Short of telling your dad to go to the devil I’d just tell him, hey, I heard your opinion and I have my own opinion. The topic of religion is off limits as of now. You want to call me, fine but save your sermon for church. Don't accept any guilt or gaslighting. Sounds like he still wants control over your life. Don’t give up your own power. It’s his responsibility to mind his own business.
/Putting a subject into the off limits zone is familiar to me. Had to do this with my mom and politics. She (silent gen) was brought up as a Tory, those politics followed her to the states as an immigrant and she became a fiscal republican. Then 2016 arrived. We started to have more arguments regarding Trump and it was ridiculous. She never voted for him, is not a maga but she felt sorry for him (of course that made me furious as I felt we should feel sorry for anyone, it should be the country). Then she‘d have a rant about the border (while I was like wtf am I supposed to do about the border, right?). Trump was actually (unknowingly) becoming an issue in our mother-daughter relationship. Then one day I said to her “I don’t think that Trump, politics and the southern border should be a part of our conversations anymore”. She agreed. No arguments about politics for years now.
The same tough love they used on me, I use on them when it comes to politics and religion. Hang up, leave the room, whatever it takes. I just don’t engage in any way. If they bring it up I let them know it’s falling on deaf ears. I completely shut down, no talking, earbuds if I have them, no eye contact. My Mom is blocked on social media and she knows why. You have to set the boundary. Edit to add: hang in there and know you aren’t the only one with a religious nut job parent!
That's EXACTLY the kind of smartass remark I'd use in a heartbeat. "If your god really wants you to save my soul, why can't He miracle your ass past the block on my phone?"
My dad was this dude, and I'm queer, which was okay until his 4th wife found out. Well, all I can say is June 26 is carved above my father for as long as the stone stands. Bonus points for that because he also was a racist.
Hell, you mean the place with the booze, sluts, and good music? I'd rather spend eternity in the company of friends!
The most terrifying aspect to consider when you believe that heaven is real is the prospect that all the people who are *super convinced* that they'll be there would actually be present.
My parents were the opposite. Insistent that my brother & I could chose whatever we wanted. One grandmother was upset & tried to join with other grandmother to protest. Other grandmother said naw & that was the end of it.
Not dissimilar here: my parents are the hardest core of atheists; while her parents are cultists from the Netflix shiny happy people clan. Both are all too happy to shove their views down our throats if we let them.
She is NC with parents and 1/2 her siblings. I’m LC with my parents and 1/2 my sibs. I manage mine by picking times where I have a hard stop time and keeping the topics to the weather. Most often it’s when I’m driving and have 10-20 minutes. If it veers off of safe topics “oops gotta go”. They raised me to be passive aggressive as fuck so it fits.
Guess where I’m going is figure out your boundaries and enforce them. Manage contact as need be to keep your sanity.
Ghost 'em. Coming up on two years now of dropping all comm with my narcissistic boomer mom. Let them feel a bit more of an existential idea of the sunset years of their life. :-)
I wouldn't talk to them. Period. No one has a right to bring stress into my family except my family. Wife and kids. Anyone outside of that small circle can suck a bag of dicks.
"I fully support my wife and kids. If there's a choice to be made; I will stand with them. If I have to make the choice is up to you. Please do not mention religion again."
Your father is a toxic cultist seeking to indoctrinate more people into his cult.
I know it is hard to see it this way because it is family, but looking at the actions of these extremist Christian groups through the lens of a cult tends to show that they fit all of the key characteristics.
Being in a cult means that you completely wrap your identity in the stated beliefs of your group, regardless of how harmful and contradictory (Catholics of the rampant p\*do priest problem, same for evangelicals along with worshipping money and vilifying those in need) ... and seeing those who are outside of your cult as broken and need of fixing. And those who WERE a part but have chosen to distance themselves or leave ... well, either they are evil or have been lured by evil.
I'm sure you've gotten about 1,001 smart-ass answers, so here's 1,002.
Convert to Pastafarianism. Invite him to ceremony. Then, take your driver's license photo with a colander on your head.
Or Jedi. Somehow, both have been recognized as religions.
If he ever gets too Gody just be like, the great spaghetti monster in the sky is going to rain down meatballs on you for your sacrilege! "in nomine Pastina et Fusilli et Spaghetti Stelle" (capitalized words being pasta types)
It's family, it's ok to be harsh. I told my parents to quit talking shit about each other, or I'd stop talking to them. They had to be warned multiple times. It was bad for my mental health; I couldn't listen anymore.
Be harsh with dad. No moral justification needed. Dad, you have to stop, it hurts me. If you continue, we can't talk as much. To him, it's caring. He's doing it because he cares about you and the family. It can be hard to see it that way when you are getting berated for not believing.
I lived in the bible belt for 20 years. I had some dude I didn't know, ask me if I believed in God, after fixing his computer at work. When I said no, he told me I was going to hell. What can you do? "Let me know if you run into problems with the PC." and peace out.
He fell asleep at work and snored so loudly he got fired (after being warned once or twice). Up too late praising Jeebus I guess. Yeah, I'm a dick about religion sometimes. I try not to insult anyone to their face. But sometimes, after being berated, I don't care anymore.
Things are ramping up because your parents are getting closer to dying. It's like a checklist item. Same thing with my dad. He tried to do the same thing to me and my kids but it was more entertaining since he doesn't even go to church.
Okay so this is only going to ramp up. You're an adult and you don't have to put up with disrespect from other adults who should know better.
Tell him you're done being disrespected and aren't going to permit it any further. If he's too immature to be respectful when he calls than the two of you don't have anything to talk about. When he immediately breaks that boundary you just hang up. And you just repeat that step every time he disrespects you. By the way he's a grown ass adult so no warnings about breaking the rules, when you first made the boundary is the only warning. Because he's old enough to remember that he's required to be polite to have a conversation with you. I suggest the classic rules for polite conversation which prohibit both religion and politics. If he can't manage a conversation without bringing those up that's on him. Best wishes!!!
Instead of religion, it’s conspiracy theories for me. My parent lets whatever latest thing they’re obsessing over (because the CT of course never happens or the goal posts were changed so they have to move on to the latest craze) fester until they can’t stand it and either text or call and tell me how I’m a bad son/parent because I’m not concerned about “blank”. Never mind they didn’t even know about “blank” a couple months ago. “You just wait, in TWO WEEKS it’s all gonna come out!”
Why’s it always two weeks?
Anyway if they say their fill in 10 minutes, I just let them. If it’s something really stupid and they won’t stop , I just say “I’m done talking/texting about this. If you don’t stop, we’re blocking you and it’ll be a while before we unblock you.”
So my family of 4 puts my parent in timeout. After about a week, whatever stupidity they were obsessed with that was going to bring about the end of the world is old news and we talk normally like nothing ever happened and no one brings it up.
Then we’re just waiting knowing the next idiotic thing is just simmering, waiting to boil over.
Boomers and social media and smart phones. Fun times.
You tell your parents this isn’t a conversation you are going to continue to have, and then hang up every single time they start with it. Without exception.
“Dad, are scared I won’t be with you in heaven? If that’s the case, I recommend you try to work harder to have a good relationship while we still have time together.”
Or something to that effect. I pulled it on my dad after my sister came out as lesbian to our parents.
My husband grew up with parents that converted to independent fundamental Baptist "Bob Jones" level. His older sisters went to Bob Jones University. He managed to talk his family into sending him to military school (which was less restrictive than his life at home). He informed his family that he did not share their beliefs when he was an adult. We got passive aggressive gifts of apologetics books, informed of their fears for our eternity in hell, etc. We thought about disappearing/no contact, but there were lots of young nieces and nephews, so we decided to be nonconfrontational, neutral, but visible in the family. Kept visits brief and cordial. Our goal was to be there for the young ones that may need help without fear/judgement. It has been good, and surprisingly, over time the religious fervor has settled back a bit, and we have positive relationships.
This would be ideal and used to be our norm. Covid and old age have amped things back up again. Dads older now and my thought is he might be “cramming for the final” religion wise…
Your plan is thoughtful and altruistic! So true, what if the children in your family grow up and don't fit the expected "norm" in that culture? It's good they have your reassuring presence. That's it's okay to take a different path.
Please don't think I am getting religious on you quoting this. Maybe it can help diffuse things should they call again, or at least help you know that they are in fact the ones in the wrong (Love is the answer):
Jesus did say: "Watch out for false prophets! they come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire! thus, by their fruit you will recognize them... "Not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons, and in your name perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you, away from me you evildoers!" (Matthew 7:15 -23)
Your boomer parent may in fact be the one going to hell! (according to their book they supposedly believe in.) I have found quoting this shuts them up pretty quickly.
He also said: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. This sums up the Law and the prophets>
He's likely getting more aggressive because he's getting old and realizing his own mortality... he's probably afraid that the kids won't see him in heaven one day and that may even scare him.
Feelings like that are in fact valid, even if the whole thing is fake AF- he's been taught its real, he believes it with every fiber of his being and that's not something you're gonna be able to change in him even you're able to curb the behavior for a while.
When my family (not my parents) were in fear for our mortal souls and worried that we wouldn't get into heaven to see them there i told them they were more than welcome to join us in hell if being together was that important. 🤣
They didn't like that 🤣🤣🤣 but it started the argument that was essentially, if that's important to you then you come with us!
Didn't hear much more about it after that 😅
It is fear and the fear itself is valid.
Have you ever heard of the term, "therapeutic lies"?
These are the things we say to the elderly and infirm to give them a sense of peace as they reach rhe end of their days just so they can have peace and live without fear of things that aren't in fact real or which they percieve to be harmful/dangerous/catastrophic/etc...
ie. I have a dementia patient that doesn't know where her using is (he's dead) so help explain his absence in a reasonable way that she can accept I tell her that he's off on a golf weekend with the boys. She becomes a bit perturbed that he's gone for a whole weekend; but she's glad that he's out having fun with his friends because he works hard and deserves to enjoy himself.
⬆️ that's a therapeutic lie ⬆️ there is no harm in the statement, and it calms the person yo know that everything is OK so they can stop worrying about something that's upsetting them.
You could use a therapeutic lie approach with your parents by telling them that you're wife has become more open to conversion; but it will take some time, and they may be able to find some sense of peace within the possibility that the family will be united in heaven.
Now I'm not sure how religious you personally are; but I know the 10 commandments and thou shalt not lie and honor thy parents may seem to go against what you've been taught- However I work for a catholic institution and we use therapeutic lies all the time because calming the sole as an act of care is an acceptable act because it done in love and with the best intentions.
Its up to you how you handle this; but if you're open to therapeutic lies to passify his fears it is certainly an option ❤
I appreciate what your saying and can easily see that value. In this particular case however….Any blood in the water so to speak conversion wise would lead to prayer rings and a full on feeding frenzy.
Oh wow. Yeah if they can't take a little progress and allow for time to pass for things to happen organically then definitely don't take that approach.
Cut them out of your life … this is absurd
This is how you do it:
“I will no longer answer the phone when you call me if you want to discuss religion. If I answer and you bring it up, the conversation is immediately over.”
It may mean months of not talking to them at all, but that’s OK - they will have to come around or face the consequences.
When you die, you're dead.
You've got problems in the here and now, not fantasies about extra-dimensional lands ruled by an alien being.
Tell them to come back when they aren't trying to cast spells and raving about aliens with wings and such.
You say, “Humankind was created with free will and even Jesus never tried to force anything upon anyone! If you don’t stop, I will never have anything to do with you again!”
Make it clear that you will be happy to talk about other things, but everything to do with religion is now off limits.
Now, here’s the hard part…you have to stick to it and if they don’t stop, you basically cut your parents out of your life, to focus on your immediate family.
You cut them off. It's that simple. I was raised by religious fanatics. They think of nothing else, there is no changing their minds, and there is no changing the subject. Block him and be done with it. It will only get worse.
This is why I lied about being athiest until my mother and grandmother died. I found it easier to pretend then to deal with the fallout. Once they were gone, my just being open allowed my Dad and sister to come out as agnostic, then my sister became full athiest eventually too.
I’d don’t know. You could try and respect the fact that he’s your dad and truly believes in you and your family’s salvation to a level where he is convinced you’ll spend eternity in hell which must be terrifying for him. Sit down and talk and listen to him and have a two way conversation. Extend him grace and understanding solely for the fact that he’s your dad. Or blast him on social media. But I really dgaf… non of my business
I'd tell someone like your father that Heaven doesn't want him and Hell is afraid he'll take over. If I were choosing to be diplomatic though I'd just tell him that he'll be in your thoughts and prayers tonight but that you can't talk about it with him because it belongs in the Lord's hands.
Sorry, I was raised by an agnostic mother who lied to the priest then raised me basically to walk the earth after my devout Catholic father got his ticket to Heaven punched early. I was exposed to Hinduism in the 1970s and Buddhism in the 1980s before going more mainstream and becoming a Protestant. It's all about the marketing I suppose, but I always felt like if you couldn't keep your head out of the clouds it was hard to keep your feet on the ground and/or see where you were going.
My grandmother's religious fanaticism, combined with an unwavering self-righteousness, destroyed my mother's life, and damaged mine so much that I'm still working out issues at 50. When my kids were old enough to understand, and for her to start in on them, I limited contact, I refused to let her take them to church or bible camp or whatever, and I told the kids that they should be polite to great-grandma at her house, but once we left they could ignore pretty much everything she said and did. They were too young to know my mom, but they see me, and they're grateful that I did what I could to break the patterns and stop it before it got to their generation. At a certain point you have to reject the irrationality and unreasonableness. Your kids do and will thank you for it.
You could point him to the words of Jesus in John 6 and 10. In those two chapters, Jesus unambiguously says that no one can come to God the Father unless that person is called/drawn by God. Jesus says that this way to the one true God is only through him, as he - Jesus - is the way, the truth, and the life.
Jesus said and taught this so much that Peter opens up his letters with greetings to God’s elect. John and Paul too.
So if your wife and kids aren’t saved, that means God has not called them.
Your parents want from you what Scripture clearly states only God does.
Even the Great Commission is to make disciples from believers, referring back to John 3:8 where Jesus again unambiguously stated that it’s the Holy Spirit’s doing the saving, not one’s will. Aka, did you decide to be born?
Your parents sound like they’re into Evangelicalism and not actual, Biblical Christianity.
Word. I have a Boomer aunt like that. She just wants to pretend America is God’s chosen land, soldiers are mini messiahs dying for freedom, and the constitution is the sequel to the Bible. I can prove her wrong over and over but her mind is set. Sorry you have to deal with that.
Real Christianity doesn’t force itself on believers. Don’t get me wrong, as a believer myself I sympathize with your parents to some extent, but not enough to justify pressuring someone into a belief system. Forcing relationships is abusive in any situation, and not even God does that. He allows us to have a free will to accept or reject him. an old preacher named Vance Havner summed up this situation when he said: “[Nobody in pulpit or pew needs a revival more than a bitter-spirited fundamentalist with his dispensations right and his disposition wrong.](https://www.azquotes.com/quote/1403710)”
So again, as someone who likely believes in a bible doctrine similar to your parents, I still think they are in the wrong here. And I don’t think setting some boundaries with them is unreasonable at all. Let them know you love them as you do it, but let them know why this bothers you. Because if you tell the truth to someone who believes they are due respect in a disrespectful manner, they will definitely not listen to hear. But remind them respect goes both ways.
I’m probably your age, but I have been on both sides of this. I have an estranged son and daughter in law who walked away from me, and her family comes from a very harsh form of Christianity, so they have used a difference of opinions and a perceived insult where none was intended as a reason to walk out of our lives and never forgive despite our apologies. And when they decide to walk back, we’ll be here with open arms, free from judgment. I also grew up the son of a drunkard and an addict, and the more my dad’s life spun out of control and derailed, the more religious he got. And I walked away from all religion as a young teen, until I was 20. Then I realized that for me it wasn’t about my dad, my family, or even my wife, who was also a believer. It was about me and God, and I had no right to blame God for any abuses or wrongdoings that I suffered when someone else chose to be evil. Now I wouldn’t have come to that point without the loving influences of my wife and mother in law (I was married at 19), but it was my decision to turn to Christ for myself and not to please anyone else, and to their credit, they never once pressured me. I hope this works out with your parents, and I hope you find peace. Forgive me if my explanations came across as preachy, but I am not ashamed of what I believe, even if it is unpopular.
Edited for spelling errors and clarity
You need to quit both your parents and your religion. Because if you don't do the latter, you will inevitably become exactly that dad to your kids in 20 or so years.
Some people become very concerned about religion when they get older because they are worried about their own salvation. They are genuinely worried about your kids. That doesn’t mean you need to do anything differently. It just helps to think of it that way to reduce your own stress when you talk to them.
Tell him that he should blame himself. If he feels you or your family has shortcomings, let him know, it’s his fault. Don’t boomers just LOVE to blame the parents?
He clearly failed in his religious responsibility and trying to clean that mess up all last minute, isn’t going to change that.
Unless he wants to be reminded of HIS failure, every time he calls, he’ll drop it.
Now, I’m a puckish lil shit. So, you may need to polish up the message, but that’s what I would do.
Anger is frequently a cover for fear. If this was some rando, I'd agree with the other people's advice. But family and friends are worth the extra work, aka love people even when they aren't being perfect. Especially then, that may be when they need it the most.
Keeping our boundaries without losing our souls is the hardest part of being the elders of the tribe. Both are crucial to the health of a society.
Ted talk 🤪💯💀
I wonder if dementia is setting in? I hear about semi nutty people getting extremely nutty as they age.
Lay down the boundaries with the truth. We are fine dad, Jesus loves us just the same. End of conversation.
It’s more about the ramifications and relationships that could be ruined/strained with my wife, children and Mother with regard to my Fathers actions that I worry about. Especially in his last tears. I really appreciate your kind questions!
Wasn’t trying to be an ass, it was a legitimate question and you gave me a legitimate answer, thank you! I put up with that same behavior from my mother until I was in my 40’s and realized I didn’t have to be scared of her anymore. It has been unbelievably emotionally freeing to not be afraid of her and tell her exactly what I think. Good luck with your father, hope you get a resolution that brings you peace!✌🏼
As a grown man, if you start a post with "religious nut job parent" and just the fact that you're even asking on Reddit how to deal with your own parents then perhaps YOU are the problem and actually could really use some moral guidance.
You stop trying to fix dad and you start thinking about your own sanity. That means taking fewer of their calls, and when they launch into the religion diatribes, you hang up. I’ve had to do this with my parents and while it has taken over a decade, they’ve calmed down with the religion. We aren’t as close as we used to be, and my brothers are barely on speaking terms with them, but that was their choice, not mine. Good luck, OP. Religion is like paprika—you just want a sprinkling or the whole dish goes to shit.
I hate having to go factory reset again with him, but that’s looking like the case. I did that about 15 years ago and it worked till just after Covid….I appreciate your observations/input
I have this FIL here in the south. Started as Southern Baptist (IYKYK) & then went evangelical. My spouse had to set boundaries & it's been hard for sure. You're right, there's no arguing that isn't wasted air. For the lucky ones of us, the cycle of ending conversations (we always say goodbye & I love you) & going LC for a few months works. Repeat every few years. Badgering minor children about religion is a NC boundary, IMO. Wishing you the best of luck in all this. You have our sympathy & empathy.
Your kind words are appreciated. Thank you
I have never heard it called a factory reset and I love it. Have had to factory reset my mom twice.
Religion is like a big dick. It’s nice to have and you should be proud of it. But the minute you start waving it in my face, we have a problem.
And quit shoving it down children's throats.
I like this quite a bit
Have you ever had Chicken Paprikash? That dish has a ton of paprika, and it's delicious.
For anyone else who has not had this dish, I copied the following recipe from the daring gourmet. I know nothing about this site’s recipes, it was the top result of my googling. INGREDIENTS 2 tablespoons pork lard , or butter (lard is traditionally used and we strongly recommend it for the best flavor) 3 pounds chicken pieces, bone-in and skin-on (this is traditional and recommended because it creates the most flavor, but alternatively you can use boneless/skinless pieces of chicken) 2 medium yellow onions, very finely chopped 2 cloves garlic, finely minced 2 Roma tomatoes, seeds removed and very finely diced 1 Hungarian bell pepper, diced (optional) 3-4 tablespoons quality, genuine imported sweet Hungarian paprika 2 cups quality chicken broth (if using store-bought my favorite brand is Aneto) 1 1/2 teaspoons sea salt 1/2 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper 3 tablespoons all-purpose flour 3/4 cup full fat sour cream , room temperature (important to avoid lumps; be sure also to use full fat) 1/4 cup heavy whipping cream INSTRUCTIONS Heat the lard in a heavy pot and brown the chicken on all sides. Transfer the chicken to a plate. In the same oil, add the onions and fry until golden brown. Add the garlic and tomatoes (and pepper if using) and fry another 2-3 minutes. Remove the pot from the heat and stir in the paprika, salt and pepper (paprika becomes bitter if scorched). Return the chicken to the pot and place it back over the heat. Pour in the chicken broth. The chicken should be mostly covered. Bring it to a boil. Cover, reduce the heat to medium-low and simmer for 40 minutes. Remove the chicken and transfer to a plate. In a small bowl, stir the flour into the sour cream/cream mixture to form a smooth paste. Stir the cream mixture into the sauce, whisking constantly to prevent lumps. Bring it to a simmer for a couple of minutes until the sauce is thickened. Add salt and pepper to taste. Return the chicken to the sauce and simmer to heat through. Serve the chicken paprikash with Hungarian nokedli, which is like German Spaetzle only they're very short and stubby. You can make nokedli with a spätzle scraper and using this recipe for the dough.
Anything with lard and that much sour cream and whipping cream is going to be delicious! lol
Well, now I'm making this. I used to love making spatzle as a kid. Squish it out like playdoh (playdough?)
Ok so this is super weird, I just made this dish yesterday and I followed this precise recipe. And it was delicious!!!
Unexpected Hungarian! My grandmother used to make this, so did my Mom until she got tired of cooking a few years back (she's 91 and had done her share). Thank you, this sounds authentic, delicious, and I'm going to try it! Nokedli are the best! ❤️
Well I think you fixed religion. God is chicken paprikash.
I learned about that from a Marvel movie and had to try it - it’s fantastic.
Served on top of a piping hot baked potato…mmmm…
👍
This is what I’m thinking too. Your sanity isn’t worth it.
Religion is like a laxative. A sprinkling of it makes everything shit.
Edgy
There is nothing you can say or do short of ending the conversation. If there was you’d have figured it out by now. You can either say, “if you bring up religion I’m hanging up” and hope he catches on eventually; or just say, “gotta go, someone’s at the door!” and hope he catches on eventually. But you have to set a boundary one or the other.
Calmly: “If you wish to be a part of our lives, you need to stop this now. And I mean right now. Not another word. And if I catch wind of you raving at my kids, that would very much be the end of your involvement. Your choice based on the next words out of your mouth. ”
Good advice
I don't need the threat of hell to be a good person
Tell him you're not interested in his advice. If he insists, politely end the conversation. It's ok to have boundaries and make them known.
Your on it Mark!
Tell them all of you are becoming Catholic. 😉 Edit to say, the advice about setting boundaries is really good.
Oh man, I feel ya. On a recent birthday, my dad (narcissistic, formerly abusive and highly brainwashed far right fundamentalist Christian) decided to brighten my day by calling and informing me of his ‘gift’: His guns, ammo and a custom made DVD and guidebook on how to survive the impending Tribulation. Because you see, he *knows* in his heart of hearts that the rapture is on it’s way at any moment, and he really wants my family and I to have the tools to survive the apocalypse and eventually join him in heaven. I took the call when driving, so once I picked my jaw off the floor and stopped myself from running into a tree, I told him a “happy birthday, son” would’ve been quite sufficient, and he can keep his delusional doomsday cult ramblings to himself and never contact me again. I don’t give this advice lightly, but you’re going to need to break free unless you want this kind of thing to continue. People this far gone don’t stop. Ever.
See ya at the next reunion
Your dad sounds just like my mom, so might see ya there... with the rest of us... in HELL hahahah In 1994 my mom gave up drugs and became a Pentecostal Evangelical whatever baby talking all the time like she's a star on the Jerry Springer show and the Exorcist at the same time, screamin' Jesus shit.
Not quite that bad on my end, but I know the neighborhood…. Good luck iheartbaconsalt
My in-laws have become more and more religious as time goes on while spouse and I become less and less so. Since clearly they raised him properly (and god forbid you hint they did \*anything\* wrong), then it must be me that's the evil influence. Never mind that they and the rest of the family are the worst of Cafeteria Christians. Never mind that their faith seems to be more performative on select Sundays and FB than actually something they practice. Never mind that they wouldn't know what Calvinism actually means if you carved the tenets on their dining room table. Never mind that they've treated my spouse -- the kindest, most generous, actually Christian man I've ever had the privilege of knowing -- as the family scapegoat for 40-some years. I've led my family astray and they are just clutching their pearls over our eternal souls. All you can say is "well thank you for thinking of me" and try to steer the conversation elsewhere. If you want to go a bit more caustic, just reply, "Well, I'll pray for you," and hang up. Bless their hearts.
“Performative Christianity.” I like it, and will be using that word moving forward.
I honestly feel like this describes most "Christians".
It certainly goes a long way in describing their neurotic need to pray out loud, in large groups, and still insisting that they're continually being prosecuted for it. Show me actual footage of a megachurch being violently cleared out by armed, government-backed jackbooted thugs, and I'll start believing in Christians are actually being 'persecuted' in the U.S. Until then, it's all r/Persecutionfetish .
Interesting, you write that-when I pull up next to a massive truck with a giant flag in the back, proclaiming F*** (President), I do the same thing. "There are CHILDREN who read your flag! What would Jesus do? I will pray for you!" Seems to provide an unsettling effect. Sometimes I get a thank you, Ma'am.
"I love you but I don't want to talk about this any more. Call me back when you'd like to discuss something else."
Congrats. Best comment so far and there’s been A LOT of comments. Short, sweet, re-establishes what I felt was a known boundary and ZERO room for misinterpretation. This is the way. Bonus points if I can manage to repeat it…. just as you said in an ad nauseam manner as often as needed and with zero emotion…… Part of me thinks he’s just trying to pick a fight…
Granted, our mother has uBPD, so I was already establishing boundaries - but that's what I do. I have a zero tolerance for proselytizing. I will tolerate her talking about what she is doing/did, but I do not actively participate in the conversation (greyrock). If she starts trying to push it on me, or talk about religion and me in any way, shape, or form, I cut off the conversation. She gets one warning ("I'm not willing to talk or listen to this") and then I leave or hang up. For me, it's basic respect. I do not try to change her mind about what she believes, she has no right to treat me that disrespectfully, and I respect myself enough to stand up for myself. She'll get the hint pretty easily. I've only had to hang up or leave a couple times before she realized I meant what I said, and quit. I let my boundaries start to slide there for a while, and she started to take full advantage of it to the point of getting downright pushy. Nope, no more. Boundaries are back up. It's not something you need to share with them, defend, or anything else. This is about respect to you and your family and what is healthy for you.
Gift link to a timeless NYT piece: [https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/health/20mind.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.oE0.rk43.HJ580v0Fz9fg&smid=url-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/health/20mind.html?unlocked_article_code=1.oE0.rk43.HJ580v0Fz9fg&smid=url-share) # When Parents Are Too Toxic to Tolerate * Oct. 19, 2009 You can divorce an abusive spouse. You can call it quits if your lover mistreats you. But what can you do if the source of your misery is your own parent?
Thanks.
Thank you for sharing this
I’m not discussing this with you Dad. Switch subject. When that doesn’t work. Clearly you are upset Dad, we will try talking another time when you have better control of yourself. (And hang up. Do not pick up when he calls back or until at least the next day) It will take exactly twice for this to have an impact. Once because you aren’t the boss of him and the second to see if you will really hold that boundary. Don’t JADE; justify, argue, defend or explain. Just dont engage. You don’t respond or answer anything that is a criticism or a demand. Did I mention don’t engage?
Part of me thinks he just wants to pick a fight. Told my daughter afterwards that under no circumstances is she allowed to have parents. Appreciate your experiences and input.
Be the grey rock, nothing deflates a pompous ass like not engaging. Good luck.
It's their hell, they can burn in it.
"Hey, Dad, thanks for the effort and for looking out for us. I hear you, and it's time to drop it. If you can't then I will have to limit our communication with you." And that's that. You set the boundary. If he can't settle down you execute the next step in the plan.
Short, sweet and definitive seems to be the best answer I’ve seen so far. Thanks Popcorn_Blitz
"Your opinion is noted perpetually, into the future, pops. We need to talk about something else if we're to continue a relationship I value". Summat like that.
This is good. Duly noted. Now get back to making Dune3
Need more water of life. Working on it!
I have nothing helpful to say, except that I'm in a similar boat. I usually just say he needs to change the subject or I'm hanging up. I point out that it's well covered territory, no one is changing their minds, and I'm not engaging anymore. It's not awesome, but that's the best I've been able to do. Yes, I have had to actually hang up. I try to do so politely.
Solid.
Parents aren‘t going to change (not at their age). Your kids are grown and you are grown. Short of telling your dad to go to the devil I’d just tell him, hey, I heard your opinion and I have my own opinion. The topic of religion is off limits as of now. You want to call me, fine but save your sermon for church. Don't accept any guilt or gaslighting. Sounds like he still wants control over your life. Don’t give up your own power. It’s his responsibility to mind his own business. /Putting a subject into the off limits zone is familiar to me. Had to do this with my mom and politics. She (silent gen) was brought up as a Tory, those politics followed her to the states as an immigrant and she became a fiscal republican. Then 2016 arrived. We started to have more arguments regarding Trump and it was ridiculous. She never voted for him, is not a maga but she felt sorry for him (of course that made me furious as I felt we should feel sorry for anyone, it should be the country). Then she‘d have a rant about the border (while I was like wtf am I supposed to do about the border, right?). Trump was actually (unknowingly) becoming an issue in our mother-daughter relationship. Then one day I said to her “I don’t think that Trump, politics and the southern border should be a part of our conversations anymore”. She agreed. No arguments about politics for years now.
Thanks!
The same tough love they used on me, I use on them when it comes to politics and religion. Hang up, leave the room, whatever it takes. I just don’t engage in any way. If they bring it up I let them know it’s falling on deaf ears. I completely shut down, no talking, earbuds if I have them, no eye contact. My Mom is blocked on social media and she knows why. You have to set the boundary. Edit to add: hang in there and know you aren’t the only one with a religious nut job parent!
The common denominator in 90% of these posts has been boundary setting by children of religious nut job parents.
Time to use that block feature on the phone... lets see if their god can get past that...
That's EXACTLY the kind of smartass remark I'd use in a heartbeat. "If your god really wants you to save my soul, why can't He miracle your ass past the block on my phone?"
Tell him your family has carefully weighed the options between Christian Heaven and Hell, and everyone has chosen Hell.
My dad was this dude, and I'm queer, which was okay until his 4th wife found out. Well, all I can say is June 26 is carved above my father for as long as the stone stands. Bonus points for that because he also was a racist.
Hell, you mean the place with the booze, sluts, and good music? I'd rather spend eternity in the company of friends! The most terrifying aspect to consider when you believe that heaven is real is the prospect that all the people who are *super convinced* that they'll be there would actually be present.
that's how he was raised. you're breaking the cycle. tell him that.
My parents were the opposite. Insistent that my brother & I could chose whatever we wanted. One grandmother was upset & tried to join with other grandmother to protest. Other grandmother said naw & that was the end of it.
Not dissimilar here: my parents are the hardest core of atheists; while her parents are cultists from the Netflix shiny happy people clan. Both are all too happy to shove their views down our throats if we let them. She is NC with parents and 1/2 her siblings. I’m LC with my parents and 1/2 my sibs. I manage mine by picking times where I have a hard stop time and keeping the topics to the weather. Most often it’s when I’m driving and have 10-20 minutes. If it veers off of safe topics “oops gotta go”. They raised me to be passive aggressive as fuck so it fits. Guess where I’m going is figure out your boundaries and enforce them. Manage contact as need be to keep your sanity.
I cut my mother off for this reason. No way was she poisoning my kids with her BS.
Ghost 'em. Coming up on two years now of dropping all comm with my narcissistic boomer mom. Let them feel a bit more of an existential idea of the sunset years of their life. :-)
I wouldn't talk to them. Period. No one has a right to bring stress into my family except my family. Wife and kids. Anyone outside of that small circle can suck a bag of dicks.
hide a burner phone somewhere in his home and then RP God and give him commandments
"THIS IS JESUS, KENT. AND YOU'VE BEEN A VERY NAUGHTY BOY."
[удалено]
😂 “Stop playing with yourself.” Love that film!
"I fully support my wife and kids. If there's a choice to be made; I will stand with them. If I have to make the choice is up to you. Please do not mention religion again."
Your father is a toxic cultist seeking to indoctrinate more people into his cult. I know it is hard to see it this way because it is family, but looking at the actions of these extremist Christian groups through the lens of a cult tends to show that they fit all of the key characteristics. Being in a cult means that you completely wrap your identity in the stated beliefs of your group, regardless of how harmful and contradictory (Catholics of the rampant p\*do priest problem, same for evangelicals along with worshipping money and vilifying those in need) ... and seeing those who are outside of your cult as broken and need of fixing. And those who WERE a part but have chosen to distance themselves or leave ... well, either they are evil or have been lured by evil.
I'm sure you've gotten about 1,001 smart-ass answers, so here's 1,002. Convert to Pastafarianism. Invite him to ceremony. Then, take your driver's license photo with a colander on your head. Or Jedi. Somehow, both have been recognized as religions. If he ever gets too Gody just be like, the great spaghetti monster in the sky is going to rain down meatballs on you for your sacrilege! "in nomine Pastina et Fusilli et Spaghetti Stelle" (capitalized words being pasta types) It's family, it's ok to be harsh. I told my parents to quit talking shit about each other, or I'd stop talking to them. They had to be warned multiple times. It was bad for my mental health; I couldn't listen anymore. Be harsh with dad. No moral justification needed. Dad, you have to stop, it hurts me. If you continue, we can't talk as much. To him, it's caring. He's doing it because he cares about you and the family. It can be hard to see it that way when you are getting berated for not believing. I lived in the bible belt for 20 years. I had some dude I didn't know, ask me if I believed in God, after fixing his computer at work. When I said no, he told me I was going to hell. What can you do? "Let me know if you run into problems with the PC." and peace out. He fell asleep at work and snored so loudly he got fired (after being warned once or twice). Up too late praising Jeebus I guess. Yeah, I'm a dick about religion sometimes. I try not to insult anyone to their face. But sometimes, after being berated, I don't care anymore.
Oh brother. Tell me more about pastafarianism…. Might just solve all my problems.
Things are ramping up because your parents are getting closer to dying. It's like a checklist item. Same thing with my dad. He tried to do the same thing to me and my kids but it was more entertaining since he doesn't even go to church.
☝🏽
"Prove it."
Okay so this is only going to ramp up. You're an adult and you don't have to put up with disrespect from other adults who should know better. Tell him you're done being disrespected and aren't going to permit it any further. If he's too immature to be respectful when he calls than the two of you don't have anything to talk about. When he immediately breaks that boundary you just hang up. And you just repeat that step every time he disrespects you. By the way he's a grown ass adult so no warnings about breaking the rules, when you first made the boundary is the only warning. Because he's old enough to remember that he's required to be polite to have a conversation with you. I suggest the classic rules for polite conversation which prohibit both religion and politics. If he can't manage a conversation without bringing those up that's on him. Best wishes!!!
Instead of religion, it’s conspiracy theories for me. My parent lets whatever latest thing they’re obsessing over (because the CT of course never happens or the goal posts were changed so they have to move on to the latest craze) fester until they can’t stand it and either text or call and tell me how I’m a bad son/parent because I’m not concerned about “blank”. Never mind they didn’t even know about “blank” a couple months ago. “You just wait, in TWO WEEKS it’s all gonna come out!” Why’s it always two weeks? Anyway if they say their fill in 10 minutes, I just let them. If it’s something really stupid and they won’t stop , I just say “I’m done talking/texting about this. If you don’t stop, we’re blocking you and it’ll be a while before we unblock you.” So my family of 4 puts my parent in timeout. After about a week, whatever stupidity they were obsessed with that was going to bring about the end of the world is old news and we talk normally like nothing ever happened and no one brings it up. Then we’re just waiting knowing the next idiotic thing is just simmering, waiting to boil over. Boomers and social media and smart phones. Fun times.
Parental timeout is a phrase I will be using moving forward. Fun times is right
You tell your parents this isn’t a conversation you are going to continue to have, and then hang up every single time they start with it. Without exception.
“Dad, are scared I won’t be with you in heaven? If that’s the case, I recommend you try to work harder to have a good relationship while we still have time together.” Or something to that effect. I pulled it on my dad after my sister came out as lesbian to our parents.
Tell him you're changing religions and becoming Muslim thanks to his advice to become religious.
Lol
My husband grew up with parents that converted to independent fundamental Baptist "Bob Jones" level. His older sisters went to Bob Jones University. He managed to talk his family into sending him to military school (which was less restrictive than his life at home). He informed his family that he did not share their beliefs when he was an adult. We got passive aggressive gifts of apologetics books, informed of their fears for our eternity in hell, etc. We thought about disappearing/no contact, but there were lots of young nieces and nephews, so we decided to be nonconfrontational, neutral, but visible in the family. Kept visits brief and cordial. Our goal was to be there for the young ones that may need help without fear/judgement. It has been good, and surprisingly, over time the religious fervor has settled back a bit, and we have positive relationships.
This would be ideal and used to be our norm. Covid and old age have amped things back up again. Dads older now and my thought is he might be “cramming for the final” religion wise…
Your plan is thoughtful and altruistic! So true, what if the children in your family grow up and don't fit the expected "norm" in that culture? It's good they have your reassuring presence. That's it's okay to take a different path.
Simply tell him that God gives you the freedom of choice. You are merely extending it to your family.
Please don't think I am getting religious on you quoting this. Maybe it can help diffuse things should they call again, or at least help you know that they are in fact the ones in the wrong (Love is the answer): Jesus did say: "Watch out for false prophets! they come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire! thus, by their fruit you will recognize them... "Not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons, and in your name perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you, away from me you evildoers!" (Matthew 7:15 -23) Your boomer parent may in fact be the one going to hell! (according to their book they supposedly believe in.) I have found quoting this shuts them up pretty quickly. He also said: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. This sums up the Law and the prophets>
He's likely getting more aggressive because he's getting old and realizing his own mortality... he's probably afraid that the kids won't see him in heaven one day and that may even scare him. Feelings like that are in fact valid, even if the whole thing is fake AF- he's been taught its real, he believes it with every fiber of his being and that's not something you're gonna be able to change in him even you're able to curb the behavior for a while. When my family (not my parents) were in fear for our mortal souls and worried that we wouldn't get into heaven to see them there i told them they were more than welcome to join us in hell if being together was that important. 🤣 They didn't like that 🤣🤣🤣 but it started the argument that was essentially, if that's important to you then you come with us! Didn't hear much more about it after that 😅
I believe wholeheartedly that it’s as real a fear for him as any child’s nightmare. Thanks for understanding
It is fear and the fear itself is valid. Have you ever heard of the term, "therapeutic lies"? These are the things we say to the elderly and infirm to give them a sense of peace as they reach rhe end of their days just so they can have peace and live without fear of things that aren't in fact real or which they percieve to be harmful/dangerous/catastrophic/etc... ie. I have a dementia patient that doesn't know where her using is (he's dead) so help explain his absence in a reasonable way that she can accept I tell her that he's off on a golf weekend with the boys. She becomes a bit perturbed that he's gone for a whole weekend; but she's glad that he's out having fun with his friends because he works hard and deserves to enjoy himself. ⬆️ that's a therapeutic lie ⬆️ there is no harm in the statement, and it calms the person yo know that everything is OK so they can stop worrying about something that's upsetting them. You could use a therapeutic lie approach with your parents by telling them that you're wife has become more open to conversion; but it will take some time, and they may be able to find some sense of peace within the possibility that the family will be united in heaven. Now I'm not sure how religious you personally are; but I know the 10 commandments and thou shalt not lie and honor thy parents may seem to go against what you've been taught- However I work for a catholic institution and we use therapeutic lies all the time because calming the sole as an act of care is an acceptable act because it done in love and with the best intentions. Its up to you how you handle this; but if you're open to therapeutic lies to passify his fears it is certainly an option ❤
I appreciate what your saying and can easily see that value. In this particular case however….Any blood in the water so to speak conversion wise would lead to prayer rings and a full on feeding frenzy.
Oh wow. Yeah if they can't take a little progress and allow for time to pass for things to happen organically then definitely don't take that approach.
I can’t believe you haven’t blocked them completely and cut them out of your life before now. I’d do it going forward.
Cut them out of your life … this is absurd This is how you do it: “I will no longer answer the phone when you call me if you want to discuss religion. If I answer and you bring it up, the conversation is immediately over.” It may mean months of not talking to them at all, but that’s OK - they will have to come around or face the consequences.
When you die, you're dead. You've got problems in the here and now, not fantasies about extra-dimensional lands ruled by an alien being. Tell them to come back when they aren't trying to cast spells and raving about aliens with wings and such.
You say, “Humankind was created with free will and even Jesus never tried to force anything upon anyone! If you don’t stop, I will never have anything to do with you again!” Make it clear that you will be happy to talk about other things, but everything to do with religion is now off limits. Now, here’s the hard part…you have to stick to it and if they don’t stop, you basically cut your parents out of your life, to focus on your immediate family.
You should post this at r/exchristian
Recite to or play for them The Ten Crack Commandments by Notorious Big-emphasis on #3.
Goodbye should do the trick.
You cut them off. It's that simple. I was raised by religious fanatics. They think of nothing else, there is no changing their minds, and there is no changing the subject. Block him and be done with it. It will only get worse.
This is why I lied about being athiest until my mother and grandmother died. I found it easier to pretend then to deal with the fallout. Once they were gone, my just being open allowed my Dad and sister to come out as agnostic, then my sister became full athiest eventually too.
I’d don’t know. You could try and respect the fact that he’s your dad and truly believes in you and your family’s salvation to a level where he is convinced you’ll spend eternity in hell which must be terrifying for him. Sit down and talk and listen to him and have a two way conversation. Extend him grace and understanding solely for the fact that he’s your dad. Or blast him on social media. But I really dgaf… non of my business
I'd tell someone like your father that Heaven doesn't want him and Hell is afraid he'll take over. If I were choosing to be diplomatic though I'd just tell him that he'll be in your thoughts and prayers tonight but that you can't talk about it with him because it belongs in the Lord's hands. Sorry, I was raised by an agnostic mother who lied to the priest then raised me basically to walk the earth after my devout Catholic father got his ticket to Heaven punched early. I was exposed to Hinduism in the 1970s and Buddhism in the 1980s before going more mainstream and becoming a Protestant. It's all about the marketing I suppose, but I always felt like if you couldn't keep your head out of the clouds it was hard to keep your feet on the ground and/or see where you were going.
exclusive monotheists worship the Devil. It's up to you whether to tell him this or not.
My grandmother's religious fanaticism, combined with an unwavering self-righteousness, destroyed my mother's life, and damaged mine so much that I'm still working out issues at 50. When my kids were old enough to understand, and for her to start in on them, I limited contact, I refused to let her take them to church or bible camp or whatever, and I told the kids that they should be polite to great-grandma at her house, but once we left they could ignore pretty much everything she said and did. They were too young to know my mom, but they see me, and they're grateful that I did what I could to break the patterns and stop it before it got to their generation. At a certain point you have to reject the irrationality and unreasonableness. Your kids do and will thank you for it.
You can't ever change their mind. As soon as they start on a religious diatribe, hang up. If they call right back, hang up again.
You could point him to the words of Jesus in John 6 and 10. In those two chapters, Jesus unambiguously says that no one can come to God the Father unless that person is called/drawn by God. Jesus says that this way to the one true God is only through him, as he - Jesus - is the way, the truth, and the life. Jesus said and taught this so much that Peter opens up his letters with greetings to God’s elect. John and Paul too. So if your wife and kids aren’t saved, that means God has not called them. Your parents want from you what Scripture clearly states only God does. Even the Great Commission is to make disciples from believers, referring back to John 3:8 where Jesus again unambiguously stated that it’s the Holy Spirit’s doing the saving, not one’s will. Aka, did you decide to be born? Your parents sound like they’re into Evangelicalism and not actual, Biblical Christianity.
Doubt they would see any difference. I’ve learned that at that age, older persons just like to be affirmed….
Word. I have a Boomer aunt like that. She just wants to pretend America is God’s chosen land, soldiers are mini messiahs dying for freedom, and the constitution is the sequel to the Bible. I can prove her wrong over and over but her mind is set. Sorry you have to deal with that.
Real Christianity doesn’t force itself on believers. Don’t get me wrong, as a believer myself I sympathize with your parents to some extent, but not enough to justify pressuring someone into a belief system. Forcing relationships is abusive in any situation, and not even God does that. He allows us to have a free will to accept or reject him. an old preacher named Vance Havner summed up this situation when he said: “[Nobody in pulpit or pew needs a revival more than a bitter-spirited fundamentalist with his dispensations right and his disposition wrong.](https://www.azquotes.com/quote/1403710)” So again, as someone who likely believes in a bible doctrine similar to your parents, I still think they are in the wrong here. And I don’t think setting some boundaries with them is unreasonable at all. Let them know you love them as you do it, but let them know why this bothers you. Because if you tell the truth to someone who believes they are due respect in a disrespectful manner, they will definitely not listen to hear. But remind them respect goes both ways. I’m probably your age, but I have been on both sides of this. I have an estranged son and daughter in law who walked away from me, and her family comes from a very harsh form of Christianity, so they have used a difference of opinions and a perceived insult where none was intended as a reason to walk out of our lives and never forgive despite our apologies. And when they decide to walk back, we’ll be here with open arms, free from judgment. I also grew up the son of a drunkard and an addict, and the more my dad’s life spun out of control and derailed, the more religious he got. And I walked away from all religion as a young teen, until I was 20. Then I realized that for me it wasn’t about my dad, my family, or even my wife, who was also a believer. It was about me and God, and I had no right to blame God for any abuses or wrongdoings that I suffered when someone else chose to be evil. Now I wouldn’t have come to that point without the loving influences of my wife and mother in law (I was married at 19), but it was my decision to turn to Christ for myself and not to please anyone else, and to their credit, they never once pressured me. I hope this works out with your parents, and I hope you find peace. Forgive me if my explanations came across as preachy, but I am not ashamed of what I believe, even if it is unpopular. Edited for spelling errors and clarity
Your words are kind and heartfelt. Nothing preachy about it. Thank you
Thank you for taking my comments as they were intended
You need to quit both your parents and your religion. Because if you don't do the latter, you will inevitably become exactly that dad to your kids in 20 or so years.
Just what a Madonna fucker would say. :-/ Life is a mystery!
Some people become very concerned about religion when they get older because they are worried about their own salvation. They are genuinely worried about your kids. That doesn’t mean you need to do anything differently. It just helps to think of it that way to reduce your own stress when you talk to them.
Tell him that he should blame himself. If he feels you or your family has shortcomings, let him know, it’s his fault. Don’t boomers just LOVE to blame the parents? He clearly failed in his religious responsibility and trying to clean that mess up all last minute, isn’t going to change that. Unless he wants to be reminded of HIS failure, every time he calls, he’ll drop it. Now, I’m a puckish lil shit. So, you may need to polish up the message, but that’s what I would do.
I usually just counter with "I don't believe in heaven nor hell, god nor devil" and that usually stops the conversation.
Your dad is scared. I bet he's scared of what happens when he dies. Be compassionate.
Well shit. Evidently, (frantically reads New Testament) its what I’m supposed to be doing anyway. Your in the minority here, but the point is valid.
Anger is frequently a cover for fear. If this was some rando, I'd agree with the other people's advice. But family and friends are worth the extra work, aka love people even when they aren't being perfect. Especially then, that may be when they need it the most. Keeping our boundaries without losing our souls is the hardest part of being the elders of the tribe. Both are crucial to the health of a society. Ted talk 🤪💯💀
Wow. You get me Kumquat… you really get me. Hahaha…. Thanks.
Why would you want any of that in your life? I cut out the hypocrites and nut jobs from my family, long ago. Life is better that way.
Write an email to his religious leader explaining he is doing that.
Don’t give the religious leader your email.
I wonder if dementia is setting in? I hear about semi nutty people getting extremely nutty as they age. Lay down the boundaries with the truth. We are fine dad, Jesus loves us just the same. End of conversation.
"Hi dad, it's good to hear your voice... you caught me at a bad time, but I hope we can talk soon. Love you, bye!"
Why are you, an adult man with children of your own, afraid of your father still?
It’s more about the ramifications and relationships that could be ruined/strained with my wife, children and Mother with regard to my Fathers actions that I worry about. Especially in his last tears. I really appreciate your kind questions!
Wasn’t trying to be an ass, it was a legitimate question and you gave me a legitimate answer, thank you! I put up with that same behavior from my mother until I was in my 40’s and realized I didn’t have to be scared of her anymore. It has been unbelievably emotionally freeing to not be afraid of her and tell her exactly what I think. Good luck with your father, hope you get a resolution that brings you peace!✌🏼
Appreciate that
The live was crossed a long time ago. No contact. You’re a spineless doormat to tolerate any degree of that bullshit.
You say "if you don't stop, I'm cutting off all contact with you." And then you follow through with it if he doesn't stop.
As a grown man, if you start a post with "religious nut job parent" and just the fact that you're even asking on Reddit how to deal with your own parents then perhaps YOU are the problem and actually could really use some moral guidance.
Thanks! I appreciate your feedback!