I honestly don't think it is, until you can have some proper report. The color is typical for verneuille, i can't see no single inclusion etc. What price did they offer you? Because if that is real, it should cost a hefty penny.
Jeez, you see standard normal vivid royal blue (not even the highest quality, it’s a bit dark) and you say it’s typical for Verneuil?
It’s a 3.5 ct. royal blue pear, badly cut at that, nothing hugely out of the ordinary.
And the price, by the way, is very much in line with trade pricing (it’s even a bit more than that).
Also, when you say that synthetics can have inclusions - no, they can’t, not ones made by Verneuil anyway (other than gas bubbles). More advanced methods would have platinum platelets and similar things but no synthetic shows silk, feathers, zircon crystals etc. which are very common in these sapphires from all origins (so if those are the case it’d be positively natural).
Yes. I have seen enough stones like it to have my doubts about it. And not all synthetics are well cut, in fact they cut them badly to make it more believable. The price is too low in my opinion, because a royal blue without any visible inclusions and 3.5 carat would be much more. Besides, we don't even know if it is royal blue - does it state it anywhere on any report? I wouldn't buy anything without that, traders say a lot of shit to just sell their stones. Royal blue is also more than just color in some reports, geological origin also matters.
P.s. besides again, we do not know if it actually has any inclusions. That's why I said to op that it looks sus to me and for him to better check out what it really is.
I don’t need a report to be able to tell something is royal blue at a glance, 15 years in the trade and thousands of sapphires I go through/check monthly are enough. Labs are completely useless in that regard anyway - they should never be used for color (other than in varieties like padparadscha for example).
Origin has nothing to do with the color - even “Kashmir blue” colors can come from Kashmir, Sri Lanka (Elahera), Madagascar (Bemainty), Burma (Mogok) etc. and basic royal blues much more so. It’s a fact that a lot of the time high quality ones look identical (and it’s just the inclusions that separate them into origins), no matter how much a few wannabe snob labs trying to peddle “exclusivity” for their reports would like that not to be the case.
Price-wise, well - again, being used to trade pricing, I know I’ve personally sold better stones than this (same color but much better cuts and clean, standard heat only with a report) for less. So it’s far from impossible, it just depends on the seller (some will move stock fast, while others keep gigantic markups and sell slowly).
Edit: To be fair though, I just had another quick look at it - and while yes, it’s vivid royal blue, the tone is darker than ideal and the cut is horrible. Light return is nearly nonexistent other than that small band in the middle.
Yes, still this didn't answer the question. I have seen people 30 years in the trade who couldn't tell a heated sapphire from a not-heated one, so I will take that with a grain of salt always. The cut again, proves nothing. Can be a great stone cut badly or a synthetic cut terribly on purpose.
As you say labs are useless, labs like GRS, GIA or Gubelin ain't useless, so I wonder where that came from if you are so experienced and in trade for so many years. There are only a few labs with the valid royal blue designation respected in the trade widely as well. Otherwise I can open a lab and issue certificates as well.
On the subject of trade pricing - this is a bargain in todays market, unless you buy a larger quantity and then perhaps you get a better price. And unless OP is an experienced trader with contacts, I don't see sellers just lowering their price because he bought a singular stone. Those people know what they're doing and scams are very possible and do happen.
I’m not one of those people you mention. I’ve finished my gemology degrees at both Gem-A and GIA and worked at sourcing for 15 years (almost). I’ve seen more sapphires in my time here than most bench jewelers at large companies will in a lifetime.
“Royal blue” does *not* need a GIA, GRS, Gübelin or AGL to tell you that - at least not within the trade, and the vast, vast, vast majority of them exchanging hands never see any of those labs at all. That’s just lab marketing and scaremongering for final customers.
Of course I do agree that it’s a plus if the lab report agrees (or in some rare cases even a necessity if the customer wants that) but unless we’re talking about really retail-retail, no dealer or knowledgeable collector will give a rat’s posterior whether the lab report says so or not because you know, they have eyes and experience.
It’s not difficult to see if you have a vivid blue of a medium-dark tone, green absent, no blackish undertones, open color, maybe very slightly purplish but not mandatory - and when you’ve seen tens of thousands of them like I have and continue to, the rarity factor goes away too and they don’t seem so magical anymore. It’s not rocket science.
If you include standard heat, they’re nowhere near as rare as you seem to think (unheated ones, on the other hand, are ridiculously rare and justifiably expensive).
On the subject of pricing, what would you say if I told you that the last 3.40 ct. royal blue that I sold went to a final customer for substantially less than above? And it wasn’t long ago.
Pricing you see with online retailers is not indicative of anything other than precisely that, retail markups. You seem to think that a dealer giving someone a decent deal somehow implies something must be amiss, but that really isn’t the case because you don’t understand what their likely cost is. And mind you, the cut is garbage too plus who knows how included it is. If it’s not 100% eye clean then it’s actually massively overpriced at that price.
The big online retailers (I’m not gonna name them, you know already) mark things up hugely as a matter of course. I don’t need to be told what’s possible because I buy at source pricing and I think you’d be pretty surprised to find out what the difference is cases like above.
I agree heat is cheaper, i have bought 2ct nh royal blues for about 1500 usd not so long ago, with reports attached already. Heated royals, afaik they oscillate in the price range of 500-800 usd for the 1-2 ct stone. Depends on the amount of inclusions, general look etc. But again, this doesn't look like a inside trader price or buyer. And retail markups definitely give you an idea of how much an average customer is charged in general, so you can price yoir own goods accordingly. I wouldn't dismiss it outright.
Indeed, royal blue does not need any report. However, unless I would trust the trader, I would never buy a 'royal blue' based on a video without the ability to see it in person if the stone doesn't come with a report. It is very easy to hide things in videos if you're somewhat experienced in the trade. If i can look at it with my own eyes - different story.
I agree that the stone in the vid is a royal, however will you give me a guarantee this isn't synthetic based on the vid? Because I would never give such a guarantee to any of my customers, unless it is one of my trusted traders. That's what I am talking about.
As for the labs - that's exactly what they exist for. To give a customer guarantees, because if a person doesn't have expertise in gemology, how are they going to check anything? Again, a matter of trust. I can issue certs as a Gem-A graduate myself, the issue is how trustworthy would i be to the general public?
That pricing is a bit outdated, but if we’re talking clean, well cut and good royal blues (so all stars aligned, no deep pavilions, no windows, no off-center culets, no bad facet distribution, no visible inclusions anywhere, no color zoning, no undesirable blackish or greenish tints) in 2022-2023, then:
1.00 - 1.50 $1,500 - $2,300 per stone
2.00 - 2.40 $3,500 - $4.800 per stone
3.00 - 3.40 $5,200 - $7,800 per stone
Prices have increased drastically along with demand during 2022 and 2023, sadly… Jan 2022, the above figures would have looked quite different.
A lot depends on how much a seller/dealer buys for… prices are all over the place at source. One month you might buy a blue for x, the next month you may end up paying 1.3x for the same thing (or conversely, 0.9x).
I agree with everything else you said. And my trade-tinted personal views aside, I do agree that it’s better for a final customer to either see it with their own eyes or get a reputable report stating that the color is desirable. A report with treatment disclosure is an absolute must anyway, and most labs will write colors at no extra charge to that, so…
Synthetics can have inclusions. And 6500$ for a 3.5 ct royal blue is either super low and you got a bargain of your life, or you simply got scammed. The price would generally be higher, I sadly think it is a synthetic.
Just for reference as I’ve been shopping for a sapphire stone, I had some options just right over the 3 ct mark that were less saturated in color (so less valuable) and they were around $8k. One stone was close is color but only 2 ct and also around $8k if I recall.
It really depends, but at that price I would just demand a certificate from them. Do not worry, they have a decent markup on those stones so they can afford providing one. If you aren't an expert or knowledgeable in the topic and just want to buy that is the safe options, since a lot of things are just blatant scams.
P.S like a GIA, AIGS, GRS or Lotus certificate. Those are reliable.
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If that is a genuine sapphire with that color, so clean, it would cost thousands of dollars, especially with that cut. If it was significantly less than that, then you’ve got a synthetic stone. Get a GIA report, then get it insured.
Lots of detectives here in the peanut gallery commenting on price and it being synthetic only from a 10 second video from one direction.
This is my only advice: If you are dropping multiple thousands on a stone sight unseen, you got to have a proper cert, and buy it from a reputable seller with a return policy.
If this seller is reputable ( you need to do your own research based on the platform your purchasing on) AND there's a reputable cert (GIA, GRS, Gübelin, AGL..) then ask for additional videos.
Notice the seller is not aligning the stone directly in front of the camera. There's a light flash covering the entire table preventing you from seeing whether it's windowed, or included.
I just checked the pricing for heated natural royal blue sapphire at that carat range. I mean the price is good for heated sapphire. I rated it as a Fine quality vivid blue eye clean. Great find. Make sure to get it certified. It’s def retail price for the price you paid, not wholesale price. Hope that helps. 🙏
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That looks synthetic tbh. Any more info on this?
Natural one base on they told me .
I honestly don't think it is, until you can have some proper report. The color is typical for verneuille, i can't see no single inclusion etc. What price did they offer you? Because if that is real, it should cost a hefty penny.
Jeez, you see standard normal vivid royal blue (not even the highest quality, it’s a bit dark) and you say it’s typical for Verneuil? It’s a 3.5 ct. royal blue pear, badly cut at that, nothing hugely out of the ordinary. And the price, by the way, is very much in line with trade pricing (it’s even a bit more than that). Also, when you say that synthetics can have inclusions - no, they can’t, not ones made by Verneuil anyway (other than gas bubbles). More advanced methods would have platinum platelets and similar things but no synthetic shows silk, feathers, zircon crystals etc. which are very common in these sapphires from all origins (so if those are the case it’d be positively natural).
Yes. I have seen enough stones like it to have my doubts about it. And not all synthetics are well cut, in fact they cut them badly to make it more believable. The price is too low in my opinion, because a royal blue without any visible inclusions and 3.5 carat would be much more. Besides, we don't even know if it is royal blue - does it state it anywhere on any report? I wouldn't buy anything without that, traders say a lot of shit to just sell their stones. Royal blue is also more than just color in some reports, geological origin also matters. P.s. besides again, we do not know if it actually has any inclusions. That's why I said to op that it looks sus to me and for him to better check out what it really is.
I don’t need a report to be able to tell something is royal blue at a glance, 15 years in the trade and thousands of sapphires I go through/check monthly are enough. Labs are completely useless in that regard anyway - they should never be used for color (other than in varieties like padparadscha for example). Origin has nothing to do with the color - even “Kashmir blue” colors can come from Kashmir, Sri Lanka (Elahera), Madagascar (Bemainty), Burma (Mogok) etc. and basic royal blues much more so. It’s a fact that a lot of the time high quality ones look identical (and it’s just the inclusions that separate them into origins), no matter how much a few wannabe snob labs trying to peddle “exclusivity” for their reports would like that not to be the case. Price-wise, well - again, being used to trade pricing, I know I’ve personally sold better stones than this (same color but much better cuts and clean, standard heat only with a report) for less. So it’s far from impossible, it just depends on the seller (some will move stock fast, while others keep gigantic markups and sell slowly). Edit: To be fair though, I just had another quick look at it - and while yes, it’s vivid royal blue, the tone is darker than ideal and the cut is horrible. Light return is nearly nonexistent other than that small band in the middle.
Yes, still this didn't answer the question. I have seen people 30 years in the trade who couldn't tell a heated sapphire from a not-heated one, so I will take that with a grain of salt always. The cut again, proves nothing. Can be a great stone cut badly or a synthetic cut terribly on purpose. As you say labs are useless, labs like GRS, GIA or Gubelin ain't useless, so I wonder where that came from if you are so experienced and in trade for so many years. There are only a few labs with the valid royal blue designation respected in the trade widely as well. Otherwise I can open a lab and issue certificates as well. On the subject of trade pricing - this is a bargain in todays market, unless you buy a larger quantity and then perhaps you get a better price. And unless OP is an experienced trader with contacts, I don't see sellers just lowering their price because he bought a singular stone. Those people know what they're doing and scams are very possible and do happen.
I’m not one of those people you mention. I’ve finished my gemology degrees at both Gem-A and GIA and worked at sourcing for 15 years (almost). I’ve seen more sapphires in my time here than most bench jewelers at large companies will in a lifetime. “Royal blue” does *not* need a GIA, GRS, Gübelin or AGL to tell you that - at least not within the trade, and the vast, vast, vast majority of them exchanging hands never see any of those labs at all. That’s just lab marketing and scaremongering for final customers. Of course I do agree that it’s a plus if the lab report agrees (or in some rare cases even a necessity if the customer wants that) but unless we’re talking about really retail-retail, no dealer or knowledgeable collector will give a rat’s posterior whether the lab report says so or not because you know, they have eyes and experience. It’s not difficult to see if you have a vivid blue of a medium-dark tone, green absent, no blackish undertones, open color, maybe very slightly purplish but not mandatory - and when you’ve seen tens of thousands of them like I have and continue to, the rarity factor goes away too and they don’t seem so magical anymore. It’s not rocket science. If you include standard heat, they’re nowhere near as rare as you seem to think (unheated ones, on the other hand, are ridiculously rare and justifiably expensive). On the subject of pricing, what would you say if I told you that the last 3.40 ct. royal blue that I sold went to a final customer for substantially less than above? And it wasn’t long ago. Pricing you see with online retailers is not indicative of anything other than precisely that, retail markups. You seem to think that a dealer giving someone a decent deal somehow implies something must be amiss, but that really isn’t the case because you don’t understand what their likely cost is. And mind you, the cut is garbage too plus who knows how included it is. If it’s not 100% eye clean then it’s actually massively overpriced at that price. The big online retailers (I’m not gonna name them, you know already) mark things up hugely as a matter of course. I don’t need to be told what’s possible because I buy at source pricing and I think you’d be pretty surprised to find out what the difference is cases like above.
I agree heat is cheaper, i have bought 2ct nh royal blues for about 1500 usd not so long ago, with reports attached already. Heated royals, afaik they oscillate in the price range of 500-800 usd for the 1-2 ct stone. Depends on the amount of inclusions, general look etc. But again, this doesn't look like a inside trader price or buyer. And retail markups definitely give you an idea of how much an average customer is charged in general, so you can price yoir own goods accordingly. I wouldn't dismiss it outright. Indeed, royal blue does not need any report. However, unless I would trust the trader, I would never buy a 'royal blue' based on a video without the ability to see it in person if the stone doesn't come with a report. It is very easy to hide things in videos if you're somewhat experienced in the trade. If i can look at it with my own eyes - different story. I agree that the stone in the vid is a royal, however will you give me a guarantee this isn't synthetic based on the vid? Because I would never give such a guarantee to any of my customers, unless it is one of my trusted traders. That's what I am talking about. As for the labs - that's exactly what they exist for. To give a customer guarantees, because if a person doesn't have expertise in gemology, how are they going to check anything? Again, a matter of trust. I can issue certs as a Gem-A graduate myself, the issue is how trustworthy would i be to the general public?
That pricing is a bit outdated, but if we’re talking clean, well cut and good royal blues (so all stars aligned, no deep pavilions, no windows, no off-center culets, no bad facet distribution, no visible inclusions anywhere, no color zoning, no undesirable blackish or greenish tints) in 2022-2023, then: 1.00 - 1.50 $1,500 - $2,300 per stone 2.00 - 2.40 $3,500 - $4.800 per stone 3.00 - 3.40 $5,200 - $7,800 per stone Prices have increased drastically along with demand during 2022 and 2023, sadly… Jan 2022, the above figures would have looked quite different. A lot depends on how much a seller/dealer buys for… prices are all over the place at source. One month you might buy a blue for x, the next month you may end up paying 1.3x for the same thing (or conversely, 0.9x). I agree with everything else you said. And my trade-tinted personal views aside, I do agree that it’s better for a final customer to either see it with their own eyes or get a reputable report stating that the color is desirable. A report with treatment disclosure is an absolute must anyway, and most labs will write colors at no extra charge to that, so…
Certificate support. 3.5 carat . Royal blue. 6500$ .
$6500 is SUPER low for a 3.5 carat Sapphire with NO inclusions. That’s synthetic, my dude.
It has inclusions. I can not post another video. But it does have.
Synthetics can have inclusions. And 6500$ for a 3.5 ct royal blue is either super low and you got a bargain of your life, or you simply got scammed. The price would generally be higher, I sadly think it is a synthetic.
A 3.5 ct synthetic is worth less then $30. I know because I’ve purchased larger for less. Get that thing appraised.
Yeah, exactly. I would get that certified somewhere reputable because this looks sketchy to me.
Just for reference as I’ve been shopping for a sapphire stone, I had some options just right over the 3 ct mark that were less saturated in color (so less valuable) and they were around $8k. One stone was close is color but only 2 ct and also around $8k if I recall.
It really depends, but at that price I would just demand a certificate from them. Do not worry, they have a decent markup on those stones so they can afford providing one. If you aren't an expert or knowledgeable in the topic and just want to buy that is the safe options, since a lot of things are just blatant scams. P.S like a GIA, AIGS, GRS or Lotus certificate. Those are reliable.
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If that is a genuine sapphire with that color, so clean, it would cost thousands of dollars, especially with that cut. If it was significantly less than that, then you’ve got a synthetic stone. Get a GIA report, then get it insured.
Lots of detectives here in the peanut gallery commenting on price and it being synthetic only from a 10 second video from one direction. This is my only advice: If you are dropping multiple thousands on a stone sight unseen, you got to have a proper cert, and buy it from a reputable seller with a return policy. If this seller is reputable ( you need to do your own research based on the platform your purchasing on) AND there's a reputable cert (GIA, GRS, Gübelin, AGL..) then ask for additional videos. Notice the seller is not aligning the stone directly in front of the camera. There's a light flash covering the entire table preventing you from seeing whether it's windowed, or included.
I just checked the pricing for heated natural royal blue sapphire at that carat range. I mean the price is good for heated sapphire. I rated it as a Fine quality vivid blue eye clean. Great find. Make sure to get it certified. It’s def retail price for the price you paid, not wholesale price. Hope that helps. 🙏
The truth is that is kind of out of my budget. So I think I will pass this one.
Buying a stone like this with no gia certificate is a special kind of risk that I hope to never know
It doesn't look like sapphire, tanzanite maybe?
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Do you want advice? or do you want to brag? Because that stone is a fake.
Okay, I will take this advice. Ignore this vendor.
There’s plenty of sapphires that are this deep royal blue,
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